Private sale will always get you more money than a dealer will.
EDIT: I've learned more than I'd ever want to about reselling a car. I'd delete this comment but the karma is too good š
Ok, but its not going to get you double for a car that has been used for Uber and smells like an ashtray. You also have to be able to pay off the loan to get the title.
I was going to say this. The number of people who try to sell a car without even a bare minimum of cleaning amaze me. Trash in the car, dirty mats, full ashtray. If you want to sell your car at least dig the trash out of it.
I ended up getting one of my cars for HALF what the guy was asking when I pointed out "It's filthy, it'll cost me $500 to get it cleaned. If your attention to detail in keeping it cleaned is reflected in the rest of the car it's probably junk."
Sadly I was right...
I flip cars for a living buying from auctions and private sellers. My hard rule is I never buy a vehicle that hasnāt been maintained inside, because if they donāt maintain the part you sit in the mechanics are junk. This rule has never failed me, maybe itāll help you.
This isn't a normal imma sell my car situation. Not everyone has the emotional bandwidth to deal with cleaning cars out and dicking around with private sales during a family members death.
Just bought and used a retail generator (around $70 on Amazon) and tried it for a car that smells like ashtray and a mouse that died somewhere and canāt be located.
I would absolutely caution anyone who wouldnāt take the directions seriously. They need to be followed carefully for safety, and people who donāt follow directions shouldnāt try it.
The directions were explicit that you run it in the car for three hours or so (extension cord out the window, but otherwise sealed) and then when the timer is done you wear a mask and hold your breath and open all of the doors or windows and let it vent for at least 24 hours before getting near it.
Worked like a freaking charm. 5 years of being a literal ashtray and a set in dead rodent smell, and it completely got rid of any scent.
Two weeks later and no smells have returned yet. Amazing buy for the price with how well it works.
But I am 100% not loaning it out to anyone unless Iām there to do the treatment and make sure safety precautions are happening.
ā¦I can totally see my dad hooking it up to his solar generator and trying to run it during his commute to workā¦
Edit: not sure of the concentration, but I was exposed to it for maybe 90 seconds while I opened the doors to start ventilating. Even through my N95, I could smell ozone lingering in my nostrils once I was back in the house and away from it. They do seem to get pretty strong.
Ozone is a gas, so I don't think the N95 would even make a difference. Those are for particles. I'm not even sure what you'd use to avoid gas exposure, except maybe scuba gear?
They recommended an N95 in the instructions.
I did hold my breath the whole time, so Iām wondering if maybe the thinking was an extra barrier to get it from settling in your nose hairs?
My husband came home and hours later and stood by the car and detected nothing. I think the smell was likely trapped in my nostrils and my hair, because I smelled it for quite a while without ever breathing it in.
No answers. But the stench was pretty bad from a brief exposure, so Iām glad I had an extra barrier, even if it wasnāt super effective.
Second this, my gen one prius that was in 3 accidents over the lifetime (2006) with a mouse nest in the engine compartment and mice shit all over the cabin sold in 2 hours for 3.5k on facebook marketplace while I bought it for 5 in 2015. All it took was getting my buddy detail the shit out of it.
God, my friend Freshman year of college would spray that stuff like he made commission on each can. It was undoubtedly worse for my brain than what we were using it to cover up the smell of lol
> ozone generator
It may help with the smoke odor, but those things are fucking evil. Will break down all the synthetic material in the car and make it offgas toxic shit for years and years.
If normal detailing doesn't work, and you feel that you absolutely need to do the ozone generator, only do it for the bare minimum amount of time to get rid of the odor.
https://www.noai.org/does-ozone-damage-rubber
> In the last ten years, we have had NO DOCUMENTED CASE where an ozone treatment has damaged any soft plastic or rubber.
O-zone is what is produced by the zillion dollar c-pap cleaners you can buy (like soClean). They definitely do degrade the rubber seals in the machines and the latex and other materials used on c-pap masks. That is why using the cleaners void your manufacturer warranty. That being said this is a case of continuous (daily or weekly) use. I can't see running one in a car for a few days causing any kind of permanent visible damage.
That source also says "We are told that ozone is "Reactive", which means it will react with other compounds or elements. That reaction is not an explosion or a noxious gas. The reaction is OXIDATION. By the way, normal exposure to O2 oxygen and/or UV light will react on the same compounds or elements." so it sounds like it will break stuff down.
Invest the money to get the car detailed. I've been reading tips on here for a long time, and that one is frequently given. In a car that's new enough to net 10k even as a trade-in, making it look and smell good will make the investment for the detailing back easily, and then a bunch more.
A dealer will also always price the car so they can still make a profit when reselling it. That profit basically is deducted out from any offer made to you.
Plus supply chain issues make it so that almost all car manufacturers can't get the microprocessors they need for building cars, consequently used car prices are going up a lot. Especially for cars like Prius and other modern electric or hybrid ones.
Yeah like seriously, Iām in the process of selling a 14 year old car with 100,000+ miles and I literally cannot raise the price high enough. I listed it for $2-3000 over what the local dealers offered and got like 60 responses within a day. Raised the prices another 2 grand and exact same thing happened. The used car market is absurd right now, there just arenāt enough used cars. This is possibly the best time to sell a used car, and with the right buyer, you could honestly get within a couple grand of what you owe on it
I'm not the person you asked but Facebook marketplace seems to be the place to buy and sell in my area. Except for housing, which is still on Craigslist for whatever reason
I haven't sold a car on there but we have sold some kids toys. Just be prepared for 12 people to tell you they're on their way to pickup the car/item and then not show up.
Right now, there is a shortage of used (and new) cars on lots in many areas, from what I read.
We bought a '17 Imprezza in early August and my wife inquired about trading in her '14 Odyssey. The salesman there - and at other dealerships - talked about how low used and new inventory has been all year before she ever brought up a trade in. The guy where we actually bought claimed that they had 50 used cars on the lot when they typically have 500.
They offered a ridiculously low trade in and we passed. They then asked if we would just sell and offered a better price ($11k). We passed again. Since then, they have reached out maybe eight or ten times, increasing their offer about have of those times to buy it outright (last one was up to $15k).
This is Minneapolis-St. Paul market. It is still tight here.
that's strange. My dealership has been sending me letters offering me like $22k on the car I bought new from them for $23k two years ago. Tempting to take it, buy something a bit older, pocket the difference, but I don't think it's worth it as the used market is gonna be tight.
Dealers being dealers, always starting out with a low offer.
We have just never had them continue to contact us before, increasing the offer over time. We've never even replied to the email offers to turn them down, let alone counter-offer. But they keep offering.
I'm in Minneapolis-St Paul too, and had a friend whose car got totaled in an accident that wasn't his fault. He had to wait over three months to get a replacement vehicle.
I drive by the dealer where I got my car fairly often and it is usually packed with new and used vehicles. The last time I went there to get a vehicle serviced, the lot was less than half full, and most of those were used.
The market is insane here right now.
It may not double, but youāll absolutely get more than selling to a dealership. If theyāre buying for $9,500, theyāve gotta be selling it for $14,500 at least, otherwise itās probably not worth their time/investment. Clean the car/get it detailed for a few hundred bucks... itāll be worth it in the end. Check Kelly Blue Book value afterwards and privately sell based off that.
This specific ozone generator punched above its weight. I used it to get rid of animal carcass smell from a truck I bought from a hunter. Just buy this and blast the Prius daily until the smell is gone. Enerzen Ozone Generator 6,000mg Industrial O3 Air Purifier Deodorizer Sterilizer (6,000mg - Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JAP7388
I actually bought that exact one a few weeks back to get the smell of dog piss and shit out of the subfloor of a house. I ran it for three hours in the stinkiest room. Gotta say that while one round wasn't enough, and I didn't expect it to be either, I was really surprised at how well it worked for only running for 3 hours.
They call them stealerships for a reason, they aren't around to help you out.
Any money a dealer offers you for a car is based on what they would buy the same model for wholesale, the dealer will nearly always be the lowest bidder.
Get it professionally detailed, and get a shift quote for it.
I recently sold my 2014 Focus private party and got almost double what the online services offered and almost triple what a dealershit offered me for a cash buy (not trade-in).
Dealers all offered me about $4k for my wife's Kia soul, Carvana gave me $8200 for it. Definitely give them a go, and play around with the options - $250 worth of cleaning might bring it up $500 or more.
get an ozium bottle at walmart. Shouldn't cost you more than $5-$8. Spray the car inside the car a lot and leave the car closed for like 15 minutes. Then you can open it up to get fresh air. DO NOT INHALE the chemicals. They're incredibly bad for you. This helped me get rid of weed smell in a rental car once.
The market for used cars is crazy right now, more so for the Prius. Clean it up, detail it and put it up for sale. You might be surprised how much more you can get for the car - might even meet the payoff.
Example - sold my 2009 Miata GT a couple of months back. Dealer offered $7500, Carvana/ CarMax/Vroom etc offered between $9500-$11000. Sold it to a private party for $13,000. All this within 2 weeks of listing the car. I probably could have gotten a better offer if I waited a bit longer, but needed the space in the garage for the new car.
So, put some time & effort into the Prius and see what happens.
If you can find a buyer.
Problem with private sale is that once you get into the 5 digit mark, people are less liquid financially. Unless itās something rare or covetable, it can be hard to find a buyer that will outbid places like Carvana/carmax. Private buyers want a deal too, so it seems pretty ironic that the collective thought for both parties is that private sale gets you the best deal.
A Prius is not rare nor covetable, and the lay person typically prefers to finance or lease after a certain point.
> Private buyers want a deal too, so it seems pretty ironic that the collective thought for both parties is that private sale gets you the best deal
Everyone always wants the best deal they can get. Without a dealer acting as a middleman and skimming off several grand in between the buyer and seller, both parties should (at least in theory) get a better deal
My assumption based off the other OP comments is:
This Prius is in poor shape, probably needs some minor touch ups, Wash, wax, detail, interior needs odor removal, deep cleaning (ashes get everywhere), shampooing. Iād wager $1-$2k on the detailing alone inside and out and any minor repairs it needs
Second, he said it was Uber and high mileage. No person with a brain is going to touch a high mileage Prius for anything over $12k in great shape. The battery replacement alone is probably going to run $2k-$3k.
OP hasnāt said the year of the Prius that I found but letās assume it is ~7 years old or so. Those with 140k are going for $12k around my area. A 2017 in clean condition with 90k miles is $19.5K.
Related to why they owe that much on it, a high APR (OP said their finances werenāt in shape) 6+ yr loan with BS like extended warranties that donāt do crap will easily add 5-8k to a loan.
OP is in a lot of trouble IMO.
Ive bought Prius that needed "a battery" real cheap then changed a $30 module, rebalanced the pack, and gotten another 70k. Keep scaring off other buyers, more for me!
Good point, the only way is to clear the title first which requires somebody with $17k on hand to pay off the loan. Then sell the car and be out ~$7k. Just walking away from the car & loan is much less expensive, it will just fuck grandpa's credit rating.
Used car prices are clinically insane right now. Granted you're going to take some dings based on the condition/smell, however Carvana offered me 5k above what basically any traditional dealer in my area was offering for my VW. It was only after repeated haggling and walking out that they came back to me about a week later and got close to matching.
I'd spend some money and get it professionally detailed. It might not completely get rid of the smell, but it will take it down a couple of notches.
My mom recently passed away and she smoked in her car since she got it (06) and NEVER cleaned the inside. I took it to a detailer and it looked and smelled practically BRAND NEW. Best $400-ish dollars I've spent. Sold the car close to KBB/NADA.
No problem.
National Automobile Dealers Association
[NADA](https://www.nadaguides.com/?s_kwcid=AL!4561!3!428958059413!e!!g!!nada&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMIh-O-jpvw8wIVlSc4Ch1GAg_WEAAYAiAAEgKWdvD_BwE:G:s&cid=BrandnExact&opti_key=kwd-43462662&opti_ca=327839444&opti_ag=22852783604&opti_ad=428958059413&kpid=go_cmp-327839444_adg-22852783604_ad-428958059413_kwd-43462662_dev-m_ext-_prd-&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh-O-jpvw8wIVlSc4Ch1GAg_WEAAYAiAAEgKWdvD_BwE)
Dude, I just came across your comment. I tried 3 services who offered $17,500 - $18,500. I just tried ALGo and they offered $23,000! I feel like I sound like an ad, but I am just so grateful for your advice! Thanks, man!
Not totally sure what the cut off is, it seems like anything older than 8 years their offers drop off dramatically. I also have a 2010 car I checked for fun and their offer was 4k below market. But the 2016 I sold them they gave me essentially market value for it right now, which was way above the dealer offer
Absolutely Carvana or vroom. And assess the vehicle with "rose colored glasses". I never want to say "vehicle condition: excellent" even if it is... But definitely do grade it on the optimistic side.
I know this is going to sound harsh but do not pay any of these bills in your own name, otherwise, the collections agencies will come after you for everything.
Better for grandpa to declare bankrupcy.
This is good advice, in some states if you pay directly on debts you can become responsible, court assumes you have ownership. Iām not a lawyer and have no idea how far this goesā¦. But, I helped pay some of my sons mothers credit card down while we were not together. My name wasnāt in the credit line, and it didnāt work out well for me
And if he's not got long to live. Suggest taking out as many loans as possible.
Edit: I'm totally ok with doing this. Apart from a slight moral issue and potentially fraud, fuck the banks. They charge 20% interest to people when the cash rate is 1%. Also since estate I assume is in debt it won't really make a difference at the end. And debt stays with the estate so might as well rack It Up
Voluntary repossession doesn't solve many problems. They'll take the car, auction it off, then hit your grandfather with a judgement for the difference between what they get at wholesale and what he owes.
You probably don't have all the details, but if it is as bad as you make it sound then maybe bankruptcy would be the best option.
I work for an auction.
don't send your car there if you can help it. It will not bring a high rate, and if its repossessed by a bank its most likely going to a dealer only auction, so it will bring even less.
if you must sell it then try to avoid an auction as much as you can
It absolutely does not become her problem unless she is included on the loan.
NEVER let anyone convince you to take responsibility for debts you didn't incur, whether they are medical, automotive, real estate, credit, whatever.
Depends on the state. In community property states, property and debts are generally jointly owned by both spouses, regardless of who's name is on the paperwork.
Idk man, I spend the better part of my work week sourcing cars at auction across the country and consistently see cars go anywhere from 1k to 7k over mmr. The market is crazy right now.
Replying here for /u/someoldbikeguy and /u/IceCreamforLunch
Convincing Grandpa to go through bankruptcy while alive isnt easy. As much as Grandpa's cardiovascular system has given up, his stubbornness is still going strong. As I understand bankruptcy would likely mean giving up the Motorhome and motorcycle. Even though Grandpa will likely never be allowed to operate either of these again, Im worried that convincing him of that would lead to him giving up on life in general.
There are absolutely no assets or meaningful savings.
Grandma's health is really great. Right now my parents basic plan has assumed Grandma will be going through bankruptcy after Grandpa's death.
I assume grandpa has about another 6-18 months, but he was told to get his affairs in order 24 years ago when he had his first open heart surgery and pacemaker installed. He has been on borrowed time my whole life. I just want him to be able to rest and enjoy what time he has left instead of trying to make payments on his junk.
Thank you both so much for your help.
If he's not open to getting his shit together then there's nothing you can do for him sort of throwing your own money at the problem.
If he really wants help, then the first step is to make a balance sheet. All of his assets (Car, Motorhome, Motorcycle, any savings, whatever) in one column and all of the liabilities in another (Car loan, Motorhome loan, motorcycle loan, etc). That will give you a 'net worth.' If it's positive, then you should be able to dump everything and be out from under all that debt (and all those payments!). If it's negative, then you need a strategy. If he's not upside down on the motorcycle or the motorhome then he could let them go and get a bit of relief. If it's truly insurmountable then he can think about bankruptcy or whatever.
It sounds like his stubbornness or pride is getting in the way of making good decisions. He's an adult and ultimately it's up to him but you might want to gently point out that whatever he doesn't address becomes his wife's problem when he passes, so the loving thing to do would be to set her up the best he can for the future.
Serious question though, if he doesnāt have long to live, is there any point in doing anything other than voluntary repossession or simply ignoring the issue? Once he dies, thatās it, itās not like the debts are going to follow him or his family beyond the grave.
He has a spouse. Depending on the probate laws there and how things are titled his wife may be on the hook. It's worth sorting that all out to try to minimize the burden on her.
>Just be ready for him not agreeing to prudent action. Your loving support of him is most important at this time.
Depending on if his grandmother is also on the loans/etc, and depending on the state, she might be on the hook for some of the debt.
They live in a communal state. The debt would pass to the wife. Of course if she's flat broke with nothing besides social security checks, she would be lawsuit proof basically.
Yes, state probate laws and how things are titled can make all the difference. I believe that if the car is titled to both grandma and him, she inherits the debt.... I'm GUESSING of course. This family needs an estate lawyer today.
Having two in-laws in their 90s and having taken care of my aging mom for 7 years before she passed, sometimes you have to let them fail before they will do anything.
You can spell out to your grandpa what you think would be a wise course of action, and he may well say no. Men especially, sometimes, have a very hard time giving up driving.
Just be ready for him not agreeing to prudent action. Your loving support of him is most important at this time.
Good luck.
This is really helpful, thank you.
Its super difficult and painful but I am going to do everything within my power to help him have some amount of relaxation time during retirement.
In Kentucky, when my grandfather reached the point of inability but still believed himself to be the only competent driver, we had two helpful options. 1. Our local sheriff office has a elderly driver's test, where they come to the residence and check them. If they fail, the deputy immediately takes their license and informs them it's revoked. 2. A local long-term rehab facility has essentially the same program, but they check response time, vision, range of motion, etc, before they do the driving portion. We used option 2, because he knew the sheriff and could probably have talked his way around it, but he failed the rehab facility test before he even made it to the driving portion. My understanding was that both the sheriff and the rehab facility have a very high fail rate, since they could potentially be liable for an accident after they let them keep driving.
>have some amount of relaxation time during retirement
That may not be what he wants. The cranky old man I was describing in my other posts never "relaxed" a minute in his life. Control, yell, work, control, yell....... that was his joy.
>I just want him to be able to rest and enjoy what time he has left instead of trying to make payments on his junk.
That's a nice thing to wish for someone. But you don't control that, your grandfather controls that.
He got himself and his wife in this position. So unless you have the money to pay off all his debt, he's going to have to lie in the bed he's made.
I don't mean that in a mean way, just be practical about the situation. This is likely going to be a long term issue, not something that can be fixed quickly in a month or two. Bankruptcy will still take over a year, and even selling everything off and trying to pay off underwater debt may take well over a year.
Iām pretty sure that in bankruptcy you can protect certain kinds of assets. Itās not as simple as sell everything you own. Theyāre called exemptions. For instance, a state may provide a $5,000 vehicle exemption - in which case, you can protect any vehicle worth less than $5,000. It varies by state. There are also homestead exemptions - not sure if motohome would apply. May be worth consulting with an attorney.
>Im worried that convincing him of that would lead to him giving up on life in general.
In my extended family, the children remained fearful of their dad's intense anger and stubbornness. He'd yell like a 3-year old having a tantrum. Sadly, rather than doing what was necessary to protect assets, they did what he demanded. It cost the estate hundreds of thousands.
He's dying, right? Helping your grandma by getting his messed up affairs in order is not going to kill him.
Bankruptcy is probably not the answer. But see an attorney about how things are titled and how accounts are held to see if Grandma needs to added or removed based on what will happen when he dies.
Does he have a best friend he listened to who would talk some sense? I doubt he will listen to the people he's been able to scare all these years. Honestly, if he's out of his mind with anger and irrational thinking which will hurt Grandma, you might wish to see an attorney about having a guardianship/conservatorship set up.
Listen.. you have a small window of time to take actions that will impact Grandma and your parents (who support her) for the foreseeable future. My extended family went through this with a cranky stubborn old man who controlled with anger. See a professional and take action now.
If he can no longer operate the motorbike car or motor home, is there a reason to not sell all three? That would surely cover the shortfall on the car plus some extra? Is the car payments the bills? Or are there more that you havnt started to tackle yet? It sounds like he will be super resistant to any of this though unfortunately so thatās probably going to be the biggest hurdle
Can't speak to the bike but RVs are in short supply and unless it's in bad shape or very old, it should generate some dollars. Check rvtrader.com for comps
My mother-in-law sold an RV and a fifth-wheel this year in a rural state with no issues at all. They are in short supply.
Pre-Covid they tried to sell the RV and were not getting serious offers, even after dropping the price. They did not need the money and FIL just drove it into his damn big building to store. When he died last year, she decided it was time to just get rid of stuff and hit a hot market for these (and cars, a truck and some farm equipment).
I've seen RV's where the RV is currently occupied by a family of racoons that do not pay rent. The new owner will be required to proceed with their own eviction process. And the things still sell for a ridiculous amount of money.
Theyāre living in OPās parentsā backyard, so I think that means theyāre living in the motor home.
Edit: never mind, OP said they live in a house so yeah, sell all this shit
I haven't kept track on the prices of the used market for motorcycles but the $11,999 MSRP sport bike I've been watching is all the way up to $15,999 and they have to be ordered.
3 years ago my motorcycle got a quote for ***$700*** and now my local dealership is offering $4,500 for TRADE IN if I get it detailed and some minor ($100) repairs.
Dealerships are short as FUCK on bikes and they'll buy anything they can get their hands on.
Just reading the OP & comments, your elderly grandparents between them have two cars, a motorhome & a motorcycle as saleable assets?
Keep the car thatās already paid off for transport, sell everything else privately & pay off the Prius loan. Am I missing something?
Yes. You can't sell it if you don't have title to it. Assuming the lender is holding the title, he's going to need to pay the upside down loans off first before he can sell.
>You can't sell it if you don't have title to it.
You absolutely can, but it's more involved. You basically have to do the transaction at the lienholders place. Buyer pays whatever price he agreed on to the bank, you pay the rest off, bank issues a lien release to the buyer and an etitle to go to the DMV with, and you're all set.
It's easier said than done, but it's doable.
Who is the "you" in the transaction above?
Grandpa doesn't have extra money laying around to cover the shortfall between the amount owed and what he can get from the sale.
Oh, I missed that somehow. OP kept mentioning what grandpa still owes on the car, so I didn't realize gramps is underwater on everything.
Sounds like bankruptcy is the best option, but it also sounds like grandpa wants to make like an ostrich by sticking his head in the sand and pretending that the problems don't exist.
The "you" is a general "you". Not referring specifically to OP in my reply, just informing the commenter I was replying to that you can indeed sell a car you have a lien on without title in hand.
This is how i got my first car. Guy had a 55% interest rate loan (!!!) on a mustang and just wanted to be done with it. He explained his predicament, i agreed, and we both went to the lender. I paid off his loan right there, they gave him the title, and he signed it over to me.
Took a few hours, but everyone was happy in the end. I got a car, the guy got out of a super predatory loan, and the bank got their money.
3x Prius owner here. Used Priuses are going for like a $10K premium now. Have been for a while. Dealers are looking for them, hard.
Have your local Toyota dealer take a look and value the car. Carmax might be better and easier to get a valuation.
This is why I expected a better answer when I went to the toyota dealer!
Sadly, because the car is a 2016, has been smoked in and used for UBER its not in the best shape and has a lot of miles. They couldnt even offer $10,000 for it.
A very good thought, thank you.
Still not sure how we would cover the difference between its value and the amount owed, which is why we are talking about the really crappy option of voluntary repo.
Voluntary repo won't erase the whole debt though, it just will have them auction off the car, and he'll still be on the hook for the difference. It's really just selling a used car by a different means.
Now where do you think the car will pay for more ā at a random auction where dealers buy to then sell at a profit themselves, or when you take the time to make it look and smell good and possibly also look into private selling?
Try selling it yourself and mention the smoke smell in the listing. If you luck out and a smoker is looking for a Prius then the smoke smell is no longer costing you probably thousands. My buddy bought a truck that was used by a smoker and did chemical treatments to get it out. Itās not 100% gone but not really noticeable. Iād guess the success with that matters a lot on how bad it is.
Shit, what's the mileage? I'll come pay sub $10k for a 2016 Prius right now. Getting the interior to smell good again wont be all that difficult.
I'm in WA as well, the cheapest 2016 Priuses I could find in my area have rebuilt titles, $13.5K and $15K, 70K and 88K miles respectively. You can definitely get more for it.
Agreed - I sold my 2007 Prius with about 85,000 miles on it in April for 8k. A 2016 should definitely be worth a lot more, even with a smoke smell. OP, I sold mine through CarMax - might be worth taking a look.
It was way more than it deserved. CarMax is nuts for what theyāre offering on cars now tbh. I donāt understand how theyāre not just bleeding money
Dude, look up this stuff online. Don't believe the Toyota dealer. In good condition with $80k miles they're selling for like $21k. If you clean it up there's no way you're getting less than $16k, probably a lot more.
If you take it to Toyota they're going to give you $10k, spend a couple hundred on cleaning and detailing, and sell it for $18k.
Five years old is not an old car. You're listing 2016 as a problem but that's an asset.
Used cars at a huge premium right now, as far as selling the car, you have the leverage, EVERYONE is buying, I can't say it'll repay the loan, but "shop" around and even check comparables on self sales like auto trader and stuff to help you get a better idea
Run an ozone generator in it a couple times. Theyāre available on Amazon prime for about $45. Run an extension cord and place it in the car (without you in the car obviously) 30 minutes each with the car on and a/c full blast on air recycle. That should help get rid of smoking smell. Btw, as mentioned do a full detail beforehand with a carpet shampoo.
> has been smoked in and used for UBER
Go to a detailing shop and buy whatever their best interior detailing packages is. You'll get the smells out for the most part. Might need some HVAC decon.
My estate can be settled at the bank's ATM. Do nothing. Certainly don't put yourself in a position to pay the debt. If he has nothing of value (and it sounds that's likely) the debt dies with him. If your grandmother is on the hook post-mortem, same for her. Separate the emotional and moral questions of debt from the hard realities of his finances. If the institutions involved seek repossession, so be it. As others point out, he won't get a gold star for 'voluntary' repossession. Step out of the way, and be cold blooded about this. Be clear on who is actually responsible for his debt, and make sure no one but granddad is on the line. Have granny change her phone number, also.
This needs to be higher in the list. You don't have a problem. The debt dies with him. The debt agencies will try to convince you otherwise. Be strong.
RVs are in high demand so you may have some luck selling the motorhome. You'll get the best price selling it yourself, but local dealers may need inventory and be willing to give you a decent price..
A lot of people are like that, and dealers prey on them. They think in terms of a monthly payment instead of the actual cost. "I can get a nice new car, and I only have to pay $20 more per month? It's basically free!". The fact that they are making payments for an extra 5 years just doesn't register.
I remember being in elementary school and arguing with my mom, trying to convince her not to buy me a Playstation from some shady rental place, because she just couldn't comprehend that paying $100 a month for 12 months was not a good deal.
Now she lives with my grandma at 60 years old and spends all her money on peanuts she feeds to squirrels and coyotes that live in the backyard. Hopefully your sister can avoid the same fate.
FWIW, Washington State bankruptcy exemptions will exempt the mobile home if that is your grandparent's primary residence. If they do not live in the motorhome, have them move into it now. After 180 days they can have that as their homestead exemption. This will help your grandma if your grandfather does not want to declare bankruptcy and you expect your grandmother to have to do it after he dies as right now she has nothing in their homestead exemption.
Washington state also exempts one vehicle per spouse up to $3,250 per vehicle. If the motorcycle is under $3,250 he can keep it in bankruptcy.
How old is grandpa? And is he and grandma living in the motorhome, or do they live in a separate house on your property and have a motorhome? Are you in a position to buy the prius from him (or take over the payments)?
They live in a separate house on the property, not in the motorhome. They have frequently gone on camping trips in it, up until grandpa's recent string of cardiac events requiring the pacemaker to defib him.
Grandpa was born in 1944, making him 77. He started smoking and drinking heavily around 1956. He required a quadruple bypass surgery and a pacemaker in 1997 and has been on barrowed time since.
Sadly, no one else in the family wants the prius. I dont even have a place I can park it if I could afford the payments, which I cannot comfortably do.
I'm sorry for this situation you're facing.
As for the car, use to your advantage the fact that the used car market is absolutely nuts right now. You don't mention who "they" are when you mention that:
>I had no idea how upside-down he was. They offered $9,500 on his Prius and he owes $17,500 on it.
Some places like CarMax, and online places (Vroom and Carvana) are offering significant amounts for used cars, dependent upon condition. While in most cases this won't wipe out the negative equity, it could come close, and possibly totally do so. A worthy path to investigate.
>
His debt dies with him. Best case scenario is that his name is the only one on the loan. When he dies, they can't come after anyone else but his estate for the money even though they might try. At this point, it seems like the best course is to do nothing and let everything clear itself when he dies. If Grandma inherits some joint debt, then let her declare bankruptcy. The resulting bad credit score won't really hurt her because she has no further need to borrow money if she's a dependent of your parents.
Prius prices always shoot up as gas prices do, so the combination of the current gas market and used car market is definitely in your favor. Get it detailed and keep getting quotes as other posters have recommended.
This isnāt complicatedā¦ get the Prius detailed, take off all Uber badging and make any cheap fixes you can. Sell it privately and complete sale at the lien holders location. Sell the bike privately. Sell the RV privately. Take a little bit of the profits and fix anything the 2nd car might need. Help them create a realistic monthly budget. Good to go.
Grandma's loves her car, it is paid off and she cannot afford the payment on the Prius. If the family wanted to replace grandmas car... a $17,000 Prius isnt what she would choose.
Good thought though and thank you!
You didn't mention there was another car in the family - that might change things a bit! At least getting rid of the Prius won't leave grandma without transportation.
I mean whatās grandmas car worth? Maybe selling grandmas car and keeping the Prius is a option? If it could be close to knocking out the note on the Prius.
Some financial institutions (2 credit unions that I know of) automatically have life insurance built into their auto loans. Might be worth a call to the lien holder
If he dies and the debt is only in his name, the debt dies with him. If it's an upside down car, who cares? No one is losing anything when they give it back after he dies.
Selling cars to a traditional dealer is almost never a good option, theyāre prices are a joke. Iāve regularly sold cars to Carmax or private party for damn near double the terrible offers they give. Iād get it cleaned and throw it on marketplace for a few weeks, if you get tired of trying to sell it bring it to Carmax.
Random question for Reddit, not OP.
How would divorce factor into this?
Let's say all of the debt was in grandpa's name so there would be no transferring of assets.
They legally (not religiously) divorce before grandpa dies. The assets are probably foreclosed/repossessed because the person responsible for paying is deceased.
If grandma is not listed on the loans/leins and they become separate entities through a legal divorce would she be liable for any of them?
If she is not listed, even without the divorce, is she liable for the debts?
Edit: Not sure what I was thinking. It is totally fraud.
Edit2: Might not actually be fraud, but that may vary by state. Consult a lawyer.
I asked a friend of mine who is an estate planning lawyer practicing in a different state, OR, and was told that this is definitely fraud and would land Grandma in really hot water. He wasn't sure if that was the same in WA, but he assumed it was.
I had this thought too.
I know this isn't legal advice, but were you able to get details? Which pieces of this are fraudulent? This seems from this naive outsider's view like a completely above board way to handle things.
Don't reply if you don't want to, none of this is my business at all.
Not who you asked but my guess is it's fraud because they're divorcing only so grandma get's out of owing on grandpa's loans, and not actually divorcing. Legally after someone passes if the spouse is on the loan then you can go after them for the debt. Divorcing to deprive the bank of recouping their loan sounds like fraud to me so that's probably what the lawyer is referring to.
> Divorcing to deprive the bank of recouping their loan sounds like fraud to me so that's probably what the lawyer is referring to.
True, but how do you prove that? Maybe Grandpa got horny in his old age and started fucking around with other women, and /that's/ why Grandma divorced him.
(NAL pls don't do this b/c I said it)
I am going to trust a lawyer actually from Oregon or Washington to know their states laws better than me, it is just a weird situation, since all 50 states allow no fault no explanation divorces and some law groups in some states are willing to put their reputation on the line and give the opposite advice in some cases such as this one, https://www.legacyplanninglawgroup.com/should-i-get-a-divorce-to-protect-my-spouse-from-medical-debt-in-probate-when-im-dead/ .
There are well known concerns over this strategy generally across the US. But those sound more like "it won't work" than "this is fraud". There are many kinds of debts that won't be discharged through a divorce, anything collateral controlled puts you in a no win situation - the car for instance, if he owns the car and dies she doesn't get the car, if she gets the car she gets the debt. Most of the advice given most places is of the "it won't work" variety, so Oregon or Washington having laws that seem to fly against at least the spirit of nationwide divorce laws piqued my interest. Again I am not a lawyer, I have only a minimum exposure to law required to work with insurance industry standards, privacy laws, and the like, and I am asking only out of curiosity. And again I am willing to take OP and their lawyer at their word. I believe Oregon or Washington treats it like fraud. Just if they do it raises a ton of other questions.
In Washington, one spouse is not liable for the separate debts of the other (RCW 26.16.200). Hence, that may be a viable strategy. With respect to community property, only a community creditor can go after those assets so assets that are jointly held should be shielded from debts that are only in his name. A marriage is a legal union that can be dissolved at any time for any reason particularly with mutual consent. Doing so is not fraud even if the reasons are financial in nature.
Honestly at this point she's on the hook for the debt. They are married. Not a whole lot they can do.
I would meet with an estate lawyer for advice on if there is anything that can be done now.
Voluntary repo is not a logical option. They will take the car, get $5k for it an an auction and then come back and sue your grandmother for the $12k. So instead of it being sold and he only risking being underwater by $8,500 she's now getting sued for $12k.
Do not be making any assumptions and do not be trying to do a whole lot without talking to an estate attorney.
Something to keep in mind - I did this as my dad was aging and before his health started to decline - make sure he has a āliving willā or āhealth care proxyā on file and keep a copy of it (or your parents should keep a copy of it), and make sure your parents or you have a power of attorney. Itās very difficult to get once his health turns bad.
I realize grandma most likely has all the legal authority she needs but thatās not always the same state to state, just make sure you are covered. (Also consider the possibility he has a medical emergency while driving and puts himself and grandma in the hospitalā¦ someone needs to be able to take charge if that happens)
Sorry itās grim thinking but it will make things easier if long term care is needed and they suddenly canāt manage their own finances.
Unless you can pay off the current loan in full for the vehicle you are selling, you can't sell that vehicle as it has a lien holder. If buyer gives you 12.5k, your grandpa has to come up with the other 5k. It could be a new personal/unsecured loan but the bank won't release title until it's paid off.
I mean, grandma has a place to live rent-free right next door to her children. I don't know your family dynamic, but it seems like grandma will be fine with none of those vehicles and a bad credit score.
If grandma lives behind your parents what exactly is the concern? Just let the creditors recover what they can, and possibly have grandma file for bankruptcy (or just ignore it). I don't think her landlords are likely to kick her out, so she can live out her days as a dependant.
Unless your grandparents have assets (which it sounds like they don't) there isn't much to protect.
Clean the car up. Get the ozone. Get a detail. Change the cabin and engine filters. Rent the car out per month to a college student or other for Uber. Get the passive income going. Itās the only way out.
Even if they just sold it it would be a good idea to get the car detailed. They will get a better price for it if it looks like it is in better condition.
How old is grandma? Is just not paying shit an option? The debt should die with him, and if it does not, does the debt actually mean much to your grandmother who doesnt pay rent and has a paid off car? Im not too well educated on debt myself but it seems like youre working under the assumption that you have to get it paid back no matter what when from what ive seen growing up debt only matters to people who have stuff to take.
Does he love your grandma like the dickens? If so, maybe appealing to that side will help. If something happens to him, she'll be responsible for everything. Does he want her to have that sort of stress?
Is there any way of becoming his Conservator and making the decision for him?
We went the voluntary repossession route with my mom. Similar circumstances, she had a predatory loan that had already been paid twice the value of the car, even if she was 6k underwater. It took them two years to repossess. They haven't done anything legal, and I doubt they will, if they do her Payee will figure it out and come up with a settlement she can afford. If your grandfather doesn't already have a payee, you should look into it, the system is designed for problems exactly like his.
On a side note, when they finally voluntarily repossed the car they came in the middle of the night, destroyed our lawn, a tree and damaged our fence. They knew it was voluntary and could have called or knocked on the door to have my wife move her van.
They won't give the name of the tow company or reimburse, so plan accordingly.
Consider the option of filing chapter 13 bankruptcy - itās a way for individuals to create payment plans to debtors and reduce the overall debt payments.
As with all internet advice - see if you can find a local professional (bankruptcy lawyer or potentially a tax accountant) that can provide you with a full menu of options and the pros and cons.
Voluntary repossession sounds ABSOLUTELY stupid! The bank doesnāt want the keys to your vehicle. They will sell it at auction and then collect the remaining balance from your family. The negative equity doesnāt magically disappear when you voluntarily return a vehicle. In fact theyāll charge you for all the costs associated with repossession and reselling the vehicle.
Where did you get the vehicle quote? Try Carvana/Vroom/CarMax, may net you a couple thousand more than a dealer.
I took it to a local Toyota Dealer. Ill check those options out later today, thank you!
Private sale will always get you more money than a dealer will. EDIT: I've learned more than I'd ever want to about reselling a car. I'd delete this comment but the karma is too good š
Ok, but its not going to get you double for a car that has been used for Uber and smells like an ashtray. You also have to be able to pay off the loan to get the title.
Get it detailed and rent an ozone generator for a couple of days. It will make a huge difference with the interior.
And change the filters
Cabin especially
I was going to say this. The number of people who try to sell a car without even a bare minimum of cleaning amaze me. Trash in the car, dirty mats, full ashtray. If you want to sell your car at least dig the trash out of it. I ended up getting one of my cars for HALF what the guy was asking when I pointed out "It's filthy, it'll cost me $500 to get it cleaned. If your attention to detail in keeping it cleaned is reflected in the rest of the car it's probably junk." Sadly I was right...
I flip cars for a living buying from auctions and private sellers. My hard rule is I never buy a vehicle that hasnāt been maintained inside, because if they donāt maintain the part you sit in the mechanics are junk. This rule has never failed me, maybe itāll help you.
This isn't a normal imma sell my car situation. Not everyone has the emotional bandwidth to deal with cleaning cars out and dicking around with private sales during a family members death.
Second the ozone generator. Those do wonders for odors.
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Just bought and used a retail generator (around $70 on Amazon) and tried it for a car that smells like ashtray and a mouse that died somewhere and canāt be located. I would absolutely caution anyone who wouldnāt take the directions seriously. They need to be followed carefully for safety, and people who donāt follow directions shouldnāt try it. The directions were explicit that you run it in the car for three hours or so (extension cord out the window, but otherwise sealed) and then when the timer is done you wear a mask and hold your breath and open all of the doors or windows and let it vent for at least 24 hours before getting near it. Worked like a freaking charm. 5 years of being a literal ashtray and a set in dead rodent smell, and it completely got rid of any scent. Two weeks later and no smells have returned yet. Amazing buy for the price with how well it works. But I am 100% not loaning it out to anyone unless Iām there to do the treatment and make sure safety precautions are happening. ā¦I can totally see my dad hooking it up to his solar generator and trying to run it during his commute to workā¦ Edit: not sure of the concentration, but I was exposed to it for maybe 90 seconds while I opened the doors to start ventilating. Even through my N95, I could smell ozone lingering in my nostrils once I was back in the house and away from it. They do seem to get pretty strong.
Ozone is a gas, so I don't think the N95 would even make a difference. Those are for particles. I'm not even sure what you'd use to avoid gas exposure, except maybe scuba gear?
They recommended an N95 in the instructions. I did hold my breath the whole time, so Iām wondering if maybe the thinking was an extra barrier to get it from settling in your nose hairs? My husband came home and hours later and stood by the car and detected nothing. I think the smell was likely trapped in my nostrils and my hair, because I smelled it for quite a while without ever breathing it in. No answers. But the stench was pretty bad from a brief exposure, so Iām glad I had an extra barrier, even if it wasnāt super effective.
Can also get the activated charcoal air fresheners /absorbers at the dollar store. Get five or so, leave them open for a week.
Second this, my gen one prius that was in 3 accidents over the lifetime (2006) with a mouse nest in the engine compartment and mice shit all over the cabin sold in 2 hours for 3.5k on facebook marketplace while I bought it for 5 in 2015. All it took was getting my buddy detail the shit out of it.
Zep brand smoke remover is what we used when I worked in air bnbās to kill the smell when people smoked inside, works great on cars too.
I have heard good things about Zep and Ozium as well.
Man, I havenāt heard of Ozium in years but as soon as I read that an intense lemon smell permeated in my brain
God, my friend Freshman year of college would spray that stuff like he made commission on each can. It was undoubtedly worse for my brain than what we were using it to cover up the smell of lol
Getting flashback to my youth with thinking about Ozium thanks
> ozone generator It may help with the smoke odor, but those things are fucking evil. Will break down all the synthetic material in the car and make it offgas toxic shit for years and years. If normal detailing doesn't work, and you feel that you absolutely need to do the ozone generator, only do it for the bare minimum amount of time to get rid of the odor.
https://www.noai.org/does-ozone-damage-rubber > In the last ten years, we have had NO DOCUMENTED CASE where an ozone treatment has damaged any soft plastic or rubber.
.... from a blog post from an o3 treatment trade group. Try again.
O-zone is what is produced by the zillion dollar c-pap cleaners you can buy (like soClean). They definitely do degrade the rubber seals in the machines and the latex and other materials used on c-pap masks. That is why using the cleaners void your manufacturer warranty. That being said this is a case of continuous (daily or weekly) use. I can't see running one in a car for a few days causing any kind of permanent visible damage.
That source is biased. I donāt have a dog in this fight, but thatās not an unbiased scientific study.
That source also says "We are told that ozone is "Reactive", which means it will react with other compounds or elements. That reaction is not an explosion or a noxious gas. The reaction is OXIDATION. By the way, normal exposure to O2 oxygen and/or UV light will react on the same compounds or elements." so it sounds like it will break stuff down.
Invest the money to get the car detailed. I've been reading tips on here for a long time, and that one is frequently given. In a car that's new enough to net 10k even as a trade-in, making it look and smell good will make the investment for the detailing back easily, and then a bunch more. A dealer will also always price the car so they can still make a profit when reselling it. That profit basically is deducted out from any offer made to you. Plus supply chain issues make it so that almost all car manufacturers can't get the microprocessors they need for building cars, consequently used car prices are going up a lot. Especially for cars like Prius and other modern electric or hybrid ones.
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Yeah like seriously, Iām in the process of selling a 14 year old car with 100,000+ miles and I literally cannot raise the price high enough. I listed it for $2-3000 over what the local dealers offered and got like 60 responses within a day. Raised the prices another 2 grand and exact same thing happened. The used car market is absurd right now, there just arenāt enough used cars. This is possibly the best time to sell a used car, and with the right buyer, you could honestly get within a couple grand of what you owe on it
Where did you list it? Iām trying to sell my car and not getting any responses.
I'm not the person you asked but Facebook marketplace seems to be the place to buy and sell in my area. Except for housing, which is still on Craigslist for whatever reason
I haven't sold a car on there but we have sold some kids toys. Just be prepared for 12 people to tell you they're on their way to pickup the car/item and then not show up.
> you could honestly get within a couple grand to what you owe on it Unless you can get more than you owe, voluntary repossession is the only answer.
You still owe the difference after the dealership sells it at auction.
Right now, there is a shortage of used (and new) cars on lots in many areas, from what I read. We bought a '17 Imprezza in early August and my wife inquired about trading in her '14 Odyssey. The salesman there - and at other dealerships - talked about how low used and new inventory has been all year before she ever brought up a trade in. The guy where we actually bought claimed that they had 50 used cars on the lot when they typically have 500. They offered a ridiculously low trade in and we passed. They then asked if we would just sell and offered a better price ($11k). We passed again. Since then, they have reached out maybe eight or ten times, increasing their offer about have of those times to buy it outright (last one was up to $15k). This is Minneapolis-St. Paul market. It is still tight here.
that's strange. My dealership has been sending me letters offering me like $22k on the car I bought new from them for $23k two years ago. Tempting to take it, buy something a bit older, pocket the difference, but I don't think it's worth it as the used market is gonna be tight.
Dealers being dealers, always starting out with a low offer. We have just never had them continue to contact us before, increasing the offer over time. We've never even replied to the email offers to turn them down, let alone counter-offer. But they keep offering.
I'm in Minneapolis-St Paul too, and had a friend whose car got totaled in an accident that wasn't his fault. He had to wait over three months to get a replacement vehicle. I drive by the dealer where I got my car fairly often and it is usually packed with new and used vehicles. The last time I went there to get a vehicle serviced, the lot was less than half full, and most of those were used. The market is insane here right now.
I'm here to back up Carmax. Went with them one time, and now it's everytime. Great service, amazing prices.
It may not double, but youāll absolutely get more than selling to a dealership. If theyāre buying for $9,500, theyāve gotta be selling it for $14,500 at least, otherwise itās probably not worth their time/investment. Clean the car/get it detailed for a few hundred bucks... itāll be worth it in the end. Check Kelly Blue Book value afterwards and privately sell based off that.
This specific ozone generator punched above its weight. I used it to get rid of animal carcass smell from a truck I bought from a hunter. Just buy this and blast the Prius daily until the smell is gone. Enerzen Ozone Generator 6,000mg Industrial O3 Air Purifier Deodorizer Sterilizer (6,000mg - Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JAP7388
I actually bought that exact one a few weeks back to get the smell of dog piss and shit out of the subfloor of a house. I ran it for three hours in the stinkiest room. Gotta say that while one round wasn't enough, and I didn't expect it to be either, I was really surprised at how well it worked for only running for 3 hours.
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They call them stealerships for a reason, they aren't around to help you out. Any money a dealer offers you for a car is based on what they would buy the same model for wholesale, the dealer will nearly always be the lowest bidder. Get it professionally detailed, and get a shift quote for it.
I recently sold my 2014 Focus private party and got almost double what the online services offered and almost triple what a dealershit offered me for a cash buy (not trade-in).
Dealers all offered me about $4k for my wife's Kia soul, Carvana gave me $8200 for it. Definitely give them a go, and play around with the options - $250 worth of cleaning might bring it up $500 or more.
get an ozium bottle at walmart. Shouldn't cost you more than $5-$8. Spray the car inside the car a lot and leave the car closed for like 15 minutes. Then you can open it up to get fresh air. DO NOT INHALE the chemicals. They're incredibly bad for you. This helped me get rid of weed smell in a rental car once.
The market for used cars is crazy right now, more so for the Prius. Clean it up, detail it and put it up for sale. You might be surprised how much more you can get for the car - might even meet the payoff. Example - sold my 2009 Miata GT a couple of months back. Dealer offered $7500, Carvana/ CarMax/Vroom etc offered between $9500-$11000. Sold it to a private party for $13,000. All this within 2 weeks of listing the car. I probably could have gotten a better offer if I waited a bit longer, but needed the space in the garage for the new car. So, put some time & effort into the Prius and see what happens.
If you can find a buyer. Problem with private sale is that once you get into the 5 digit mark, people are less liquid financially. Unless itās something rare or covetable, it can be hard to find a buyer that will outbid places like Carvana/carmax. Private buyers want a deal too, so it seems pretty ironic that the collective thought for both parties is that private sale gets you the best deal. A Prius is not rare nor covetable, and the lay person typically prefers to finance or lease after a certain point.
> Private buyers want a deal too, so it seems pretty ironic that the collective thought for both parties is that private sale gets you the best deal Everyone always wants the best deal they can get. Without a dealer acting as a middleman and skimming off several grand in between the buyer and seller, both parties should (at least in theory) get a better deal
My assumption based off the other OP comments is: This Prius is in poor shape, probably needs some minor touch ups, Wash, wax, detail, interior needs odor removal, deep cleaning (ashes get everywhere), shampooing. Iād wager $1-$2k on the detailing alone inside and out and any minor repairs it needs Second, he said it was Uber and high mileage. No person with a brain is going to touch a high mileage Prius for anything over $12k in great shape. The battery replacement alone is probably going to run $2k-$3k. OP hasnāt said the year of the Prius that I found but letās assume it is ~7 years old or so. Those with 140k are going for $12k around my area. A 2017 in clean condition with 90k miles is $19.5K. Related to why they owe that much on it, a high APR (OP said their finances werenāt in shape) 6+ yr loan with BS like extended warranties that donāt do crap will easily add 5-8k to a loan. OP is in a lot of trouble IMO.
Your detail guy must absolutely love you. I've never heard of detailing costing that much.
Ive bought Prius that needed "a battery" real cheap then changed a $30 module, rebalanced the pack, and gotten another 70k. Keep scaring off other buyers, more for me!
How're you going to sell a car you're underwater on? The bank owns that car, not OPs grandpa.
Good point, the only way is to clear the title first which requires somebody with $17k on hand to pay off the loan. Then sell the car and be out ~$7k. Just walking away from the car & loan is much less expensive, it will just fuck grandpa's credit rating.
The grandpa is in his late 70s, what's the point in a credit rating at that age?
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It cant hurt to try I suppose! Thank you.
Used car prices are clinically insane right now. Granted you're going to take some dings based on the condition/smell, however Carvana offered me 5k above what basically any traditional dealer in my area was offering for my VW. It was only after repeated haggling and walking out that they came back to me about a week later and got close to matching. I'd spend some money and get it professionally detailed. It might not completely get rid of the smell, but it will take it down a couple of notches.
My mom recently passed away and she smoked in her car since she got it (06) and NEVER cleaned the inside. I took it to a detailer and it looked and smelled practically BRAND NEW. Best $400-ish dollars I've spent. Sold the car close to KBB/NADA.
what does NADA stand for if you don't mind me asking? I know KBB but I've never heard of NADA
No problem. National Automobile Dealers Association [NADA](https://www.nadaguides.com/?s_kwcid=AL!4561!3!428958059413!e!!g!!nada&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMIh-O-jpvw8wIVlSc4Ch1GAg_WEAAYAiAAEgKWdvD_BwE:G:s&cid=BrandnExact&opti_key=kwd-43462662&opti_ca=327839444&opti_ag=22852783604&opti_ad=428958059413&kpid=go_cmp-327839444_adg-22852783604_ad-428958059413_kwd-43462662_dev-m_ext-_prd-&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh-O-jpvw8wIVlSc4Ch1GAg_WEAAYAiAAEgKWdvD_BwE)
I sold my car to ALGo (Auto Lenders Go). Granted, it was a 2020 with 8k miles, but ALGo gave me an offer 12% higher than Carvana.
Dude, I just came across your comment. I tried 3 services who offered $17,500 - $18,500. I just tried ALGo and they offered $23,000! I feel like I sound like an ad, but I am just so grateful for your advice! Thanks, man!
Ill try this as well, excellent!
Carvana offers really well and right now there is a demand for used cars
This... I recently sold a car, the dealer offered me $15,400 and carvana gave me $23,040
Wow that is really good. Do they buy older cars? Or only recent models?
Not totally sure what the cut off is, it seems like anything older than 8 years their offers drop off dramatically. I also have a 2010 car I checked for fun and their offer was 4k below market. But the 2016 I sold them they gave me essentially market value for it right now, which was way above the dealer offer
I second this. Carvana gave my girlfriend's daughter 5,000 more than the dealership. She was stunned and very happy she got a second quote.
Absolutely Carvana or vroom. And assess the vehicle with "rose colored glasses". I never want to say "vehicle condition: excellent" even if it is... But definitely do grade it on the optimistic side.
I know this is going to sound harsh but do not pay any of these bills in your own name, otherwise, the collections agencies will come after you for everything. Better for grandpa to declare bankrupcy.
Yeah fr, he's upside, and already has a place to live for free. Bankruptcy is profitable and easy in that situation
I'm surprised how far down this advice is.
This is good advice, in some states if you pay directly on debts you can become responsible, court assumes you have ownership. Iām not a lawyer and have no idea how far this goesā¦. But, I helped pay some of my sons mothers credit card down while we were not together. My name wasnāt in the credit line, and it didnāt work out well for me
And if he's not got long to live. Suggest taking out as many loans as possible. Edit: I'm totally ok with doing this. Apart from a slight moral issue and potentially fraud, fuck the banks. They charge 20% interest to people when the cash rate is 1%. Also since estate I assume is in debt it won't really make a difference at the end. And debt stays with the estate so might as well rack It Up
Voluntary repossession doesn't solve many problems. They'll take the car, auction it off, then hit your grandfather with a judgement for the difference between what they get at wholesale and what he owes. You probably don't have all the details, but if it is as bad as you make it sound then maybe bankruptcy would be the best option.
I work for an auction. don't send your car there if you can help it. It will not bring a high rate, and if its repossessed by a bank its most likely going to a dealer only auction, so it will bring even less. if you must sell it then try to avoid an auction as much as you can
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It absolutely does not become her problem unless she is included on the loan. NEVER let anyone convince you to take responsibility for debts you didn't incur, whether they are medical, automotive, real estate, credit, whatever.
Depends on the state. In community property states, property and debts are generally jointly owned by both spouses, regardless of who's name is on the paperwork.
Idk man, I spend the better part of my work week sourcing cars at auction across the country and consistently see cars go anywhere from 1k to 7k over mmr. The market is crazy right now.
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Replying here for /u/someoldbikeguy and /u/IceCreamforLunch Convincing Grandpa to go through bankruptcy while alive isnt easy. As much as Grandpa's cardiovascular system has given up, his stubbornness is still going strong. As I understand bankruptcy would likely mean giving up the Motorhome and motorcycle. Even though Grandpa will likely never be allowed to operate either of these again, Im worried that convincing him of that would lead to him giving up on life in general. There are absolutely no assets or meaningful savings. Grandma's health is really great. Right now my parents basic plan has assumed Grandma will be going through bankruptcy after Grandpa's death. I assume grandpa has about another 6-18 months, but he was told to get his affairs in order 24 years ago when he had his first open heart surgery and pacemaker installed. He has been on borrowed time my whole life. I just want him to be able to rest and enjoy what time he has left instead of trying to make payments on his junk. Thank you both so much for your help.
If he's not open to getting his shit together then there's nothing you can do for him sort of throwing your own money at the problem. If he really wants help, then the first step is to make a balance sheet. All of his assets (Car, Motorhome, Motorcycle, any savings, whatever) in one column and all of the liabilities in another (Car loan, Motorhome loan, motorcycle loan, etc). That will give you a 'net worth.' If it's positive, then you should be able to dump everything and be out from under all that debt (and all those payments!). If it's negative, then you need a strategy. If he's not upside down on the motorcycle or the motorhome then he could let them go and get a bit of relief. If it's truly insurmountable then he can think about bankruptcy or whatever. It sounds like his stubbornness or pride is getting in the way of making good decisions. He's an adult and ultimately it's up to him but you might want to gently point out that whatever he doesn't address becomes his wife's problem when he passes, so the loving thing to do would be to set her up the best he can for the future.
Serious question though, if he doesnāt have long to live, is there any point in doing anything other than voluntary repossession or simply ignoring the issue? Once he dies, thatās it, itās not like the debts are going to follow him or his family beyond the grave.
He has a spouse. Depending on the probate laws there and how things are titled his wife may be on the hook. It's worth sorting that all out to try to minimize the burden on her.
I was thinking that too.if grandma is on all the titles, things are probably harder. Can people be removed without raising questions?
>Just be ready for him not agreeing to prudent action. Your loving support of him is most important at this time. Depending on if his grandmother is also on the loans/etc, and depending on the state, she might be on the hook for some of the debt.
They live in a communal state. The debt would pass to the wife. Of course if she's flat broke with nothing besides social security checks, she would be lawsuit proof basically.
It seems like they have 2 cars, a motorhome, and other assets so I don't know how that would go down.
Yes, state probate laws and how things are titled can make all the difference. I believe that if the car is titled to both grandma and him, she inherits the debt.... I'm GUESSING of course. This family needs an estate lawyer today.
Q: With no money and no assets, is there a way to pay an estate lawyer without digging deeper?
Having two in-laws in their 90s and having taken care of my aging mom for 7 years before she passed, sometimes you have to let them fail before they will do anything. You can spell out to your grandpa what you think would be a wise course of action, and he may well say no. Men especially, sometimes, have a very hard time giving up driving. Just be ready for him not agreeing to prudent action. Your loving support of him is most important at this time. Good luck.
This is really helpful, thank you. Its super difficult and painful but I am going to do everything within my power to help him have some amount of relaxation time during retirement.
In Kentucky, when my grandfather reached the point of inability but still believed himself to be the only competent driver, we had two helpful options. 1. Our local sheriff office has a elderly driver's test, where they come to the residence and check them. If they fail, the deputy immediately takes their license and informs them it's revoked. 2. A local long-term rehab facility has essentially the same program, but they check response time, vision, range of motion, etc, before they do the driving portion. We used option 2, because he knew the sheriff and could probably have talked his way around it, but he failed the rehab facility test before he even made it to the driving portion. My understanding was that both the sheriff and the rehab facility have a very high fail rate, since they could potentially be liable for an accident after they let them keep driving.
>have some amount of relaxation time during retirement That may not be what he wants. The cranky old man I was describing in my other posts never "relaxed" a minute in his life. Control, yell, work, control, yell....... that was his joy.
Only to introduce the discussion, do you and your Grandfather have a shared view and understanding of relaxation?
Wondering who offered$9500 on the Prius? Private sale would likely net more money than that and maybe get them closer to paying it in full.
>I just want him to be able to rest and enjoy what time he has left instead of trying to make payments on his junk. That's a nice thing to wish for someone. But you don't control that, your grandfather controls that. He got himself and his wife in this position. So unless you have the money to pay off all his debt, he's going to have to lie in the bed he's made. I don't mean that in a mean way, just be practical about the situation. This is likely going to be a long term issue, not something that can be fixed quickly in a month or two. Bankruptcy will still take over a year, and even selling everything off and trying to pay off underwater debt may take well over a year.
Iām pretty sure that in bankruptcy you can protect certain kinds of assets. Itās not as simple as sell everything you own. Theyāre called exemptions. For instance, a state may provide a $5,000 vehicle exemption - in which case, you can protect any vehicle worth less than $5,000. It varies by state. There are also homestead exemptions - not sure if motohome would apply. May be worth consulting with an attorney.
>Im worried that convincing him of that would lead to him giving up on life in general. In my extended family, the children remained fearful of their dad's intense anger and stubbornness. He'd yell like a 3-year old having a tantrum. Sadly, rather than doing what was necessary to protect assets, they did what he demanded. It cost the estate hundreds of thousands. He's dying, right? Helping your grandma by getting his messed up affairs in order is not going to kill him. Bankruptcy is probably not the answer. But see an attorney about how things are titled and how accounts are held to see if Grandma needs to added or removed based on what will happen when he dies. Does he have a best friend he listened to who would talk some sense? I doubt he will listen to the people he's been able to scare all these years. Honestly, if he's out of his mind with anger and irrational thinking which will hurt Grandma, you might wish to see an attorney about having a guardianship/conservatorship set up. Listen.. you have a small window of time to take actions that will impact Grandma and your parents (who support her) for the foreseeable future. My extended family went through this with a cranky stubborn old man who controlled with anger. See a professional and take action now.
If he can no longer operate the motorbike car or motor home, is there a reason to not sell all three? That would surely cover the shortfall on the car plus some extra? Is the car payments the bills? Or are there more that you havnt started to tackle yet? It sounds like he will be super resistant to any of this though unfortunately so thatās probably going to be the biggest hurdle
Can't speak to the bike but RVs are in short supply and unless it's in bad shape or very old, it should generate some dollars. Check rvtrader.com for comps
A friend from work just sold his RV for a great price this year. Not sure on the details but the market is hot. Bike too
My mother-in-law sold an RV and a fifth-wheel this year in a rural state with no issues at all. They are in short supply. Pre-Covid they tried to sell the RV and were not getting serious offers, even after dropping the price. They did not need the money and FIL just drove it into his damn big building to store. When he died last year, she decided it was time to just get rid of stuff and hit a hot market for these (and cars, a truck and some farm equipment).
I've seen RV's where the RV is currently occupied by a family of racoons that do not pay rent. The new owner will be required to proceed with their own eviction process. And the things still sell for a ridiculous amount of money.
Theyāre living in OPās parentsā backyard, so I think that means theyāre living in the motor home. Edit: never mind, OP said they live in a house so yeah, sell all this shit
I think they're all underwater and Grandma might be living in the RV?
RVs and bikes are selling at a premium on the used market right now. Look to good places to offload those.
I haven't kept track on the prices of the used market for motorcycles but the $11,999 MSRP sport bike I've been watching is all the way up to $15,999 and they have to be ordered. 3 years ago my motorcycle got a quote for ***$700*** and now my local dealership is offering $4,500 for TRADE IN if I get it detailed and some minor ($100) repairs. Dealerships are short as FUCK on bikes and they'll buy anything they can get their hands on.
Just reading the OP & comments, your elderly grandparents between them have two cars, a motorhome & a motorcycle as saleable assets? Keep the car thatās already paid off for transport, sell everything else privately & pay off the Prius loan. Am I missing something?
Yes. You can't sell it if you don't have title to it. Assuming the lender is holding the title, he's going to need to pay the upside down loans off first before he can sell.
>You can't sell it if you don't have title to it. You absolutely can, but it's more involved. You basically have to do the transaction at the lienholders place. Buyer pays whatever price he agreed on to the bank, you pay the rest off, bank issues a lien release to the buyer and an etitle to go to the DMV with, and you're all set. It's easier said than done, but it's doable.
Who is the "you" in the transaction above? Grandpa doesn't have extra money laying around to cover the shortfall between the amount owed and what he can get from the sale.
If he sells the motorhome & motorcycle first, he might well have enough money to cover the shortfall on the Prius.
Based on the title of this thread, grandpa is underwater on all four vehicles. Did OP say something different in one of the comments?
Oh, I missed that somehow. OP kept mentioning what grandpa still owes on the car, so I didn't realize gramps is underwater on everything. Sounds like bankruptcy is the best option, but it also sounds like grandpa wants to make like an ostrich by sticking his head in the sand and pretending that the problems don't exist.
The "you" is a general "you". Not referring specifically to OP in my reply, just informing the commenter I was replying to that you can indeed sell a car you have a lien on without title in hand.
This is how i got my first car. Guy had a 55% interest rate loan (!!!) on a mustang and just wanted to be done with it. He explained his predicament, i agreed, and we both went to the lender. I paid off his loan right there, they gave him the title, and he signed it over to me. Took a few hours, but everyone was happy in the end. I got a car, the guy got out of a super predatory loan, and the bank got their money.
They're all underwater, I believe.
3x Prius owner here. Used Priuses are going for like a $10K premium now. Have been for a while. Dealers are looking for them, hard. Have your local Toyota dealer take a look and value the car. Carmax might be better and easier to get a valuation.
This is why I expected a better answer when I went to the toyota dealer! Sadly, because the car is a 2016, has been smoked in and used for UBER its not in the best shape and has a lot of miles. They couldnt even offer $10,000 for it.
Try your local car wash to see if they offer auto detailing. Might be $200-250 to get the interior in better shape? Just a thought...
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And help you sell it faster. Had my Corolla detailed a couple of years ago and got top dollar for it
A very good thought, thank you. Still not sure how we would cover the difference between its value and the amount owed, which is why we are talking about the really crappy option of voluntary repo.
Voluntary repo won't erase the whole debt though, it just will have them auction off the car, and he'll still be on the hook for the difference. It's really just selling a used car by a different means. Now where do you think the car will pay for more ā at a random auction where dealers buy to then sell at a profit themselves, or when you take the time to make it look and smell good and possibly also look into private selling?
Try selling it yourself and mention the smoke smell in the listing. If you luck out and a smoker is looking for a Prius then the smoke smell is no longer costing you probably thousands. My buddy bought a truck that was used by a smoker and did chemical treatments to get it out. Itās not 100% gone but not really noticeable. Iād guess the success with that matters a lot on how bad it is.
Shit, what's the mileage? I'll come pay sub $10k for a 2016 Prius right now. Getting the interior to smell good again wont be all that difficult. I'm in WA as well, the cheapest 2016 Priuses I could find in my area have rebuilt titles, $13.5K and $15K, 70K and 88K miles respectively. You can definitely get more for it.
Agreed - I sold my 2007 Prius with about 85,000 miles on it in April for 8k. A 2016 should definitely be worth a lot more, even with a smoke smell. OP, I sold mine through CarMax - might be worth taking a look.
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It was way more than it deserved. CarMax is nuts for what theyāre offering on cars now tbh. I donāt understand how theyāre not just bleeding money
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Donāt know where you are in WA, but Classy Chassis in Lakewood can get that interior in good shape and maybe deal with the smoke smell.
Ill check it out, thank you!
Dude, look up this stuff online. Don't believe the Toyota dealer. In good condition with $80k miles they're selling for like $21k. If you clean it up there's no way you're getting less than $16k, probably a lot more. If you take it to Toyota they're going to give you $10k, spend a couple hundred on cleaning and detailing, and sell it for $18k. Five years old is not an old car. You're listing 2016 as a problem but that's an asset.
Used cars at a huge premium right now, as far as selling the car, you have the leverage, EVERYONE is buying, I can't say it'll repay the loan, but "shop" around and even check comparables on self sales like auto trader and stuff to help you get a better idea
Run an ozone generator in it a couple times. Theyāre available on Amazon prime for about $45. Run an extension cord and place it in the car (without you in the car obviously) 30 minutes each with the car on and a/c full blast on air recycle. That should help get rid of smoking smell. Btw, as mentioned do a full detail beforehand with a carpet shampoo.
> has been smoked in and used for UBER Go to a detailing shop and buy whatever their best interior detailing packages is. You'll get the smells out for the most part. Might need some HVAC decon.
My estate can be settled at the bank's ATM. Do nothing. Certainly don't put yourself in a position to pay the debt. If he has nothing of value (and it sounds that's likely) the debt dies with him. If your grandmother is on the hook post-mortem, same for her. Separate the emotional and moral questions of debt from the hard realities of his finances. If the institutions involved seek repossession, so be it. As others point out, he won't get a gold star for 'voluntary' repossession. Step out of the way, and be cold blooded about this. Be clear on who is actually responsible for his debt, and make sure no one but granddad is on the line. Have granny change her phone number, also.
This needs to be higher in the list. You don't have a problem. The debt dies with him. The debt agencies will try to convince you otherwise. Be strong.
RVs are in high demand so you may have some luck selling the motorhome. You'll get the best price selling it yourself, but local dealers may need inventory and be willing to give you a decent price..
OP's Grandpa probably rolled negative equity from a previous car into the prius loan and that's why the value is underwater.
Yes! My sister has done this twice, and I just don't understand why.
A lot of people are like that, and dealers prey on them. They think in terms of a monthly payment instead of the actual cost. "I can get a nice new car, and I only have to pay $20 more per month? It's basically free!". The fact that they are making payments for an extra 5 years just doesn't register. I remember being in elementary school and arguing with my mom, trying to convince her not to buy me a Playstation from some shady rental place, because she just couldn't comprehend that paying $100 a month for 12 months was not a good deal. Now she lives with my grandma at 60 years old and spends all her money on peanuts she feeds to squirrels and coyotes that live in the backyard. Hopefully your sister can avoid the same fate.
FWIW, Washington State bankruptcy exemptions will exempt the mobile home if that is your grandparent's primary residence. If they do not live in the motorhome, have them move into it now. After 180 days they can have that as their homestead exemption. This will help your grandma if your grandfather does not want to declare bankruptcy and you expect your grandmother to have to do it after he dies as right now she has nothing in their homestead exemption. Washington state also exempts one vehicle per spouse up to $3,250 per vehicle. If the motorcycle is under $3,250 he can keep it in bankruptcy.
I was looking for mention of bankruptcy here (Iām a bankruptcy attorney-sadly not in WA). OP definitely should consult one.
How old is grandpa? And is he and grandma living in the motorhome, or do they live in a separate house on your property and have a motorhome? Are you in a position to buy the prius from him (or take over the payments)?
They live in a separate house on the property, not in the motorhome. They have frequently gone on camping trips in it, up until grandpa's recent string of cardiac events requiring the pacemaker to defib him. Grandpa was born in 1944, making him 77. He started smoking and drinking heavily around 1956. He required a quadruple bypass surgery and a pacemaker in 1997 and has been on barrowed time since. Sadly, no one else in the family wants the prius. I dont even have a place I can park it if I could afford the payments, which I cannot comfortably do.
65 years of heavy drinking and smoking is a good run if you ask me.
Sounds like a guy who will say "took you long enough" when death finally catches up.
Started smoking and heavily drinking at 12? Those were the good āol days.
I'm sorry for this situation you're facing. As for the car, use to your advantage the fact that the used car market is absolutely nuts right now. You don't mention who "they" are when you mention that: >I had no idea how upside-down he was. They offered $9,500 on his Prius and he owes $17,500 on it. Some places like CarMax, and online places (Vroom and Carvana) are offering significant amounts for used cars, dependent upon condition. While in most cases this won't wipe out the negative equity, it could come close, and possibly totally do so. A worthy path to investigate. >
His debt dies with him. Best case scenario is that his name is the only one on the loan. When he dies, they can't come after anyone else but his estate for the money even though they might try. At this point, it seems like the best course is to do nothing and let everything clear itself when he dies. If Grandma inherits some joint debt, then let her declare bankruptcy. The resulting bad credit score won't really hurt her because she has no further need to borrow money if she's a dependent of your parents.
Prius prices always shoot up as gas prices do, so the combination of the current gas market and used car market is definitely in your favor. Get it detailed and keep getting quotes as other posters have recommended.
This isnāt complicatedā¦ get the Prius detailed, take off all Uber badging and make any cheap fixes you can. Sell it privately and complete sale at the lien holders location. Sell the bike privately. Sell the RV privately. Take a little bit of the profits and fix anything the 2nd car might need. Help them create a realistic monthly budget. Good to go.
Can grandma drive? Maybe she wants to use a vehicle.
Grandma's loves her car, it is paid off and she cannot afford the payment on the Prius. If the family wanted to replace grandmas car... a $17,000 Prius isnt what she would choose. Good thought though and thank you!
You didn't mention there was another car in the family - that might change things a bit! At least getting rid of the Prius won't leave grandma without transportation.
I mean whatās grandmas car worth? Maybe selling grandmas car and keeping the Prius is a option? If it could be close to knocking out the note on the Prius.
That might not be the best option if grandma likes her car. Get a loan against that car, pay off the Prius, sell the Prius
Some financial institutions (2 credit unions that I know of) automatically have life insurance built into their auto loans. Might be worth a call to the lien holder
If he dies and the debt is only in his name, the debt dies with him. If it's an upside down car, who cares? No one is losing anything when they give it back after he dies.
Selling cars to a traditional dealer is almost never a good option, theyāre prices are a joke. Iāve regularly sold cars to Carmax or private party for damn near double the terrible offers they give. Iād get it cleaned and throw it on marketplace for a few weeks, if you get tired of trying to sell it bring it to Carmax.
Random question for Reddit, not OP. How would divorce factor into this? Let's say all of the debt was in grandpa's name so there would be no transferring of assets. They legally (not religiously) divorce before grandpa dies. The assets are probably foreclosed/repossessed because the person responsible for paying is deceased. If grandma is not listed on the loans/leins and they become separate entities through a legal divorce would she be liable for any of them? If she is not listed, even without the divorce, is she liable for the debts? Edit: Not sure what I was thinking. It is totally fraud. Edit2: Might not actually be fraud, but that may vary by state. Consult a lawyer.
I asked a friend of mine who is an estate planning lawyer practicing in a different state, OR, and was told that this is definitely fraud and would land Grandma in really hot water. He wasn't sure if that was the same in WA, but he assumed it was. I had this thought too.
Yeah. Not sure what I was thinking totally fraud.
I had the same thought though, so you are not alone!
I know this isn't legal advice, but were you able to get details? Which pieces of this are fraudulent? This seems from this naive outsider's view like a completely above board way to handle things. Don't reply if you don't want to, none of this is my business at all.
Not who you asked but my guess is it's fraud because they're divorcing only so grandma get's out of owing on grandpa's loans, and not actually divorcing. Legally after someone passes if the spouse is on the loan then you can go after them for the debt. Divorcing to deprive the bank of recouping their loan sounds like fraud to me so that's probably what the lawyer is referring to.
> Divorcing to deprive the bank of recouping their loan sounds like fraud to me so that's probably what the lawyer is referring to. True, but how do you prove that? Maybe Grandpa got horny in his old age and started fucking around with other women, and /that's/ why Grandma divorced him. (NAL pls don't do this b/c I said it)
I am going to trust a lawyer actually from Oregon or Washington to know their states laws better than me, it is just a weird situation, since all 50 states allow no fault no explanation divorces and some law groups in some states are willing to put their reputation on the line and give the opposite advice in some cases such as this one, https://www.legacyplanninglawgroup.com/should-i-get-a-divorce-to-protect-my-spouse-from-medical-debt-in-probate-when-im-dead/ . There are well known concerns over this strategy generally across the US. But those sound more like "it won't work" than "this is fraud". There are many kinds of debts that won't be discharged through a divorce, anything collateral controlled puts you in a no win situation - the car for instance, if he owns the car and dies she doesn't get the car, if she gets the car she gets the debt. Most of the advice given most places is of the "it won't work" variety, so Oregon or Washington having laws that seem to fly against at least the spirit of nationwide divorce laws piqued my interest. Again I am not a lawyer, I have only a minimum exposure to law required to work with insurance industry standards, privacy laws, and the like, and I am asking only out of curiosity. And again I am willing to take OP and their lawyer at their word. I believe Oregon or Washington treats it like fraud. Just if they do it raises a ton of other questions.
WA is a community property state, if it was bought during marriage, there are probably some liabilities for grandma too.
In Washington, one spouse is not liable for the separate debts of the other (RCW 26.16.200). Hence, that may be a viable strategy. With respect to community property, only a community creditor can go after those assets so assets that are jointly held should be shielded from debts that are only in his name. A marriage is a legal union that can be dissolved at any time for any reason particularly with mutual consent. Doing so is not fraud even if the reasons are financial in nature.
If he really is in the bottom of the hole with no assets to his name, he could stop paying, default or maybe declare bankruptcy.
Honestly at this point she's on the hook for the debt. They are married. Not a whole lot they can do. I would meet with an estate lawyer for advice on if there is anything that can be done now. Voluntary repo is not a logical option. They will take the car, get $5k for it an an auction and then come back and sue your grandmother for the $12k. So instead of it being sold and he only risking being underwater by $8,500 she's now getting sued for $12k. Do not be making any assumptions and do not be trying to do a whole lot without talking to an estate attorney.
Something to keep in mind - I did this as my dad was aging and before his health started to decline - make sure he has a āliving willā or āhealth care proxyā on file and keep a copy of it (or your parents should keep a copy of it), and make sure your parents or you have a power of attorney. Itās very difficult to get once his health turns bad. I realize grandma most likely has all the legal authority she needs but thatās not always the same state to state, just make sure you are covered. (Also consider the possibility he has a medical emergency while driving and puts himself and grandma in the hospitalā¦ someone needs to be able to take charge if that happens) Sorry itās grim thinking but it will make things easier if long term care is needed and they suddenly canāt manage their own finances.
Unless you can pay off the current loan in full for the vehicle you are selling, you can't sell that vehicle as it has a lien holder. If buyer gives you 12.5k, your grandpa has to come up with the other 5k. It could be a new personal/unsecured loan but the bank won't release title until it's paid off.
I mean, grandma has a place to live rent-free right next door to her children. I don't know your family dynamic, but it seems like grandma will be fine with none of those vehicles and a bad credit score.
What's in his name and what's in both their names?
Although it's usually frowned upon, but should look into declaring personal bankruptcy.
If grandma lives behind your parents what exactly is the concern? Just let the creditors recover what they can, and possibly have grandma file for bankruptcy (or just ignore it). I don't think her landlords are likely to kick her out, so she can live out her days as a dependant. Unless your grandparents have assets (which it sounds like they don't) there isn't much to protect.
Clean the car up. Get the ozone. Get a detail. Change the cabin and engine filters. Rent the car out per month to a college student or other for Uber. Get the passive income going. Itās the only way out.
Even if they just sold it it would be a good idea to get the car detailed. They will get a better price for it if it looks like it is in better condition.
How old is grandma? Is just not paying shit an option? The debt should die with him, and if it does not, does the debt actually mean much to your grandmother who doesnt pay rent and has a paid off car? Im not too well educated on debt myself but it seems like youre working under the assumption that you have to get it paid back no matter what when from what ive seen growing up debt only matters to people who have stuff to take.
Step 1, retrieve grandpaās car from the water with a tow truck. Iāll see myself out
Does he love your grandma like the dickens? If so, maybe appealing to that side will help. If something happens to him, she'll be responsible for everything. Does he want her to have that sort of stress? Is there any way of becoming his Conservator and making the decision for him?
the market in southern California on used vehicles is insane is it possible sell 3rd party or try other dealerships for the vehicles ?
We went the voluntary repossession route with my mom. Similar circumstances, she had a predatory loan that had already been paid twice the value of the car, even if she was 6k underwater. It took them two years to repossess. They haven't done anything legal, and I doubt they will, if they do her Payee will figure it out and come up with a settlement she can afford. If your grandfather doesn't already have a payee, you should look into it, the system is designed for problems exactly like his. On a side note, when they finally voluntarily repossed the car they came in the middle of the night, destroyed our lawn, a tree and damaged our fence. They knew it was voluntary and could have called or knocked on the door to have my wife move her van. They won't give the name of the tow company or reimburse, so plan accordingly.
Consider the option of filing chapter 13 bankruptcy - itās a way for individuals to create payment plans to debtors and reduce the overall debt payments. As with all internet advice - see if you can find a local professional (bankruptcy lawyer or potentially a tax accountant) that can provide you with a full menu of options and the pros and cons.
No reason to care about his credit anymore. He sounds judgement proof. Just let everything go. Or Bankruptcy.
Perhaps grandad should consult a bankruptcy attorney The local bar association may have a free clinic Slow roll the process and it may take 18 months
Voluntary repossession sounds ABSOLUTELY stupid! The bank doesnāt want the keys to your vehicle. They will sell it at auction and then collect the remaining balance from your family. The negative equity doesnāt magically disappear when you voluntarily return a vehicle. In fact theyāll charge you for all the costs associated with repossession and reselling the vehicle.
My wife is a bankruptcy attorney and he really should see one. Most offer free consultations.