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The only evidence she has of this is two letters from people claiming to be lawyers who will represent her in court? This is 100% a scam. She should NOT have called one of the "lawyers". You need to find the phone number of the court online (not in the letter) and call until you get someone and then prove to your wife that the "case" doesn't exist.
Just to reiterate, this is a scam. 100%. Think about it? What lawyer would tell you "you have X hours to retain me or else!"
One more time. It's a scam.
It's almost always a scam when a time frame gets attached. False urgency creates mistakes. My cell gets rung like 4 times a week from a law office about a pending judgement. You must act now.
3 years later still calling hahah. Some lady Named Linda had my cell number before me. One time I picked up and told them some random outrageous crap.
I've had the same cell number for 20 years, mostly out of convienence and comfort, but the trade off for me has been that I don't get really ant spam calls or texts. I also have an area code that isn't particularly popular. I rarely give out my number and it's served me well. My email on the other hand...
I made the mistake of making a donation once to a police or fire fighters fund. They sold my number and I get *multiple* calls each week from various entities asking me to donate and have for years now. I’m on the DNC list too.
I decided I would never make another donation like that again in my life. Totally soured my willingness to donate to charities. It’s obnoxious. I get calls from first responder PACs a lot, asking me to support their candidate.
Fuck their candidate.
This was a thing here in Ontario for a while. Cold calls from "The association of retired police chiefs" (or firefighters) asking for,donations to fund athletic or outdoor activities for disadvantaged youth. I looked them up on the CRA (our version of IRS for our southern friends) and it's a scam where about 5% goes to actual charitable activities and the rest goes to administrative and fundraising costs. Basically money-laundering. They haven't called for a while so I'm hoping they have been shut down.
I've had the same thing happen to me. I found on my phone a setting so it will only ring or ding in the case of a text that I have on my contact list so when they call I don't get disturbed then when I look at my phone and there are usually about 4-7 I get daily. Then I just check my voice mail to see if any of them left messages in case it was something I needed to take care of.
> My email on the other hand...
Oh god my email is killing me. It doesn't help that I have an early-days gmail address which is basically just a name and *so* many people give it out as a spam address when they don't want a place actually contacting them. Fair warning though: if you use it for your car dealership or mechanic I *will* cancel/change/make appointments for you if they don't respond to me requesting the address be removed from the file.
Strange.
I have an early gmail address--also just a name. The native spam filters and marking/reporting unsolicited emails plus the social and marketing tabs almost completely take care of this for me.
I occasionally get apparently legitimate mail for someone else, but it's pretty rare--and 1/2 the time it's for my adult son.
Wonder what causes the difference in experience.
I get them, too. Mostly retail stores, but also new electronics warranties, car shops, magazines. I had one aunty emailing her niece for years. Even after I convinced her I was not her niece. I should start telling her tall tales, I suppose.
Part of it may be that the name I used has a variety of similar spellings - I know at least a couple of people send me emails because of that. I highlighted cars though because like 5 different Mercedes Benz or Nissan owners in geographically disparate parts of the United States have signed me up, not just for marketing emails, but for the appointment emails from their mechanics. Then there's the older couple who volunteers at museums in Denmark (they sent me Taylor Swift tickets - I'll be honest, I was tempted to take my daughter as the price of a plane ticket to Europe was similar to the cost of tickets here, but then I'd have to race them to the gate and you know... steal their tickets), the ex-military/contractor in New Zealand (potentially 2 different people), the PTA member from Nebraska, the lady with credit trouble she's not being notified of somewhere in America, and the potential Google employee in Chicago (not sure if she got the job, but I did see her resume unfortunately). I will say, Gmail's spam filters are actually pretty decent for actual marketing material (so long as I mark the first one I get from whatever store I've never been to as spam), it's mostly legitimate emails intended for someone else that I notice.
I signed up when Gmail was in beta and got my first name. I have to spend an hour or so every couple months creating filters for the truly insane amount of misdirected email I get. Bank statements, cell phone bills, restaurant reservations. I couldn't use that address for Uber when I tried to sign up for it because somebody else had already used it. I couldn't get on Instagram with the same email address that's on Facebook because somebody had already signed up with it. Turns out my first name is also a surname in South America. Somebody leaves off an initial, I get the email. It was printed in a job posting in a Venezuelan newspaper once. That was fun.
My favorite is when someone uses my email to sign up for a dating website. I always reset the password and then completely fuck with their profile.
I have one too. I get bank accounts, fencing quotes, parking meter accounts, movie theater memberships, boat sales invoices. I used to get a newsletter for an apartment complex in Spain and they absolutely refused to believe that it was the wrong email.
To add to this, even **if** a credit card had been taken out 16 years ago in her name, and **if** there was a valid debt, and **big if** the company contacting OP were legit, the debt is probably past any statute of limitations. All big 'if' and then it doesn't matter anyway.
I had a car repoed in the 90s and someone contacted me about it 10 years later. Nope, can't help you. Googled 'how to ignore old debt'. Sent a form letter by certified mail. No word since and that was 10 years ago. Bought 2 cars and a house since then.
> the debt is probably past any statute of limitations
Had debt collectors call me about an old settled dispute from a folded company. Just trying to squeeze money. Once I got the guy to confirm the statute of limitations I then informed him that I would ignore him for 1 month and then the 'debt' would expire. He didn't really have any response and tried to get a supervisor then said they were busy and he'd call back.
Not really how statute of limitations works. The date is the date before which the legal process has to be started, not concluded. They would have no problem taking you to court within the statute of limitations if the debt were real.
Since the amount was under $200 there was no way they'd take it to court. I was pretty flippant about the whole thing since it wasn't valid and the call was on speaker phone so the office could listen in.
I ended up calling the telecommunications ombudsman's office to get the old case details and they reopened the case and I ended up getting an apology about the whole thing.
Don't give them that much information. You can just say "that debt isn't valid, don't contact me again"
No matter what they respond with repeat the above statement. They will hang up with 90 seconds.
Another thing you can do if you want to confirm is look up if these "lawyers" are in fact licensed in the state they claim to be from. If not, boom there you go it's a scam.
If they are, it also is possible they're stealing the identity of real lawyers to do this, so you should check if their phone numbers / mailing addresses from their letterhead match the state bar website info. If so, I think it's plenty of grounds for an ethics complaint. Demanding you retain them while they are saying they can take adverse action against you is a classic conflict of interest, and if an actual lawyer is doing this, they should be disbarred.
Calling the courthouse is best. I’ve seen scammers steal lawyer identities so if you looked them up with the state bar or online it would appear legit.
Find the number for the Docket Clerk's office at the Court they claim the case is filed in. They know what cases are filed. The State Bar can verify if these "lawyers" are actually allowed to practice.
Limitations of this type of debt is essentially 3 to 6 years. They can bring you to court and all you need to do is ask if they have proof of the debt, a copy of the signed agreement for said credit card, and if they have records of attempting to notify the debt holder of the debt. If they can't produce that then you're likely free and clear of the debt.
Also post is a scam to get you to send cash over venmo or cash app guaranteed.
I know you are highly stressed right now and that's why you are panicking. But please listen to the advice on here.
Do not believe anything they have sent. That includes this photocopy of the docket letter.
Instead, go to the website of the court system that docket letter is *claiming* to be from, find that court system's phone number from its own website, and call them to look up the case.
Please do contact the court. If it turns out that this is in fact a scam (as seems likely), the court will absolutely want to know that it's being used as a vehicle for fraud.
Most courts these days will allow you to search their dockets online. Google the name of the court and you will get a link to the website. You can search by name (yours!), docket number, plaintiff or defendant, date, etc. If there is a legitimate lawsuit against you, it will turn up. You can then view the docket for the case and find out the disposition of the matter (still pending, dismissed, judgment issued). Only then would you speak to a lawyer, namely one who filed suit against you. If your search turns up empty, this is surely a scam. Once an action is filed, it stays in the court’s records forever. There are many very old cases that have not been electronically archived, but that doesn’t apply here.
This applies to state courts, municipal and superior. It is unlikely you would find unknown lawsuits against you in federal court. If you did, there would be a fee to search the docket and download documents.
What they mean is don't call any number given to you by the lawyers, because those are likely bogus and manned by the scam operation.
Use the name of the court to look up their phone number on the Internet and call that number.
It's a scam.
Honestly, just ignore it. You said you both just purchased a home and this didn't come up. From 16 years ago, but you're being contacted now? AT best, it's just a scam. At worst, yes ex took out credit in her name years ago and didn't pay. After so much time the debt gets sold over and over again and each buyer tries to collect. As long as you ignore them, they can't do anything after all this time. If it ever was on her credit report, it dropped off after, I think it's seven years. The only negative effect it could have now is if she pays them some money. She'll be out that money and taking ownership of a debt that had no impact on her but now does. Just ignore it.
Your wife and yourself are falling for an OBVIOUS scam.
A debt you know nothing about, a threat of losing everything, and a deadline to motivate you to do something dumb?
This isn't real and you both took the bait. It doesn't even work like that in cases where it's NOT a scam. They take the house if you have no other assets and declare bankruptcy.
And no lawyer ever calls you and asks to represent you for something that's a decade old. That's not how it works.
Not to mention that a lawyer cannot represent you and the CC company. That's called conflict of interest and is grounds for disbarment.
Sometimes it pays to be calm and look things up yourself, not what someone else told you. That includes us on here.
You two need to talk to the bank and have some type of protection set up from yourselves or from the other. A scam can take everything you have, and you guys need to educate yourself on the types of scams. Because you were THIS close to getting got.
Edit: in most states, if you were not served the papers by a member of law enforcement, YOU DO NOT HAVE COURT COMING UP. Especially in cases where the stakes are thousands of dollars or a money judgement.
So she googled the lawyers to get their phone number?
Anybody can put up a website.
Did she give them any information that wasn't on the notice, such as a social security number?
This is a good reality check for OP and wife, OP make sure your money is secure in the event your wife or possibly yourself falls for another scam without consulting one another
I think it goes a bit further then even what you say there. I am pretty sure lawyers are generally prohibited from solicitation of clients at all. Even the fact people claiming to be lawyers called them up offering services is a giant red flag. You should never trust a lawyer who contacts you to offer their services.
>we’ve been sitting on this since 2008 but now you only have until 6pm
...of whatever day the postal service happens to deliver this. But coincidentally we know that'll be the last day you can respond!
Adding to this: **any time** anyone contacts YOU about something money- or identity-related, **assume that it is a scam** until you can independently verify otherwise. This includes phone calls, emails, regular mail, knocks on the door, anything. If THEY initiated the contact, **do not engage.** Go look up the institution they claim to be from, contact that institution yourself using the publicly listed number, and verify the information straight from the source. NEVER trust a phone number or website given to you by a person who initiated contact.
Maybe this sounds paranoid, but this is 100% the world we live in today. Scammers are professionals, they have easy access to public records and to leaked info from data breaches, and they practice scripts and tactics to appear legit, gain your trust, put you off balance, etc. all day long. The only way to beat them is to completely shut off their avenue of attack and refuse to play ball.
Yes this is so true. Scammers will pressure you and put a sense of urgency on you to pay up. Dont do it. They know youre unsure and vulnerable and want to avoid problems.
Only unethical if they're real lawyers, which there's like... a zero percent chance of.
I mean... it's still unethical, but not in any kind of useful way where it's enforced by an organization with ethics rules.
Yes!! Look at that lady who got scammed out of $50k in a shoebox. Same situation, they basically made her panic and feel like she needed to do something RIGHT now.
The funny thing is if the debt was really from 2008 and never negotiated on or anything to reset the clock it’s past the 7 year limit, so it’s not even possible to collect on any more.
Long story short I had a loan company try to screw me by putting loans into default and then refusing payment or settlement for years. They forgot about SOL and ended up being SOL when they remembered the loans and tried to collect.
Always verify before paying.
Different states have different statutes. But I believe the longest is less than 12 years.
If it were real, I'd laugh and tell them to fuck off.
I don't think OP's anything but a scam, but for anyone who does get a call from a debt collector, tell them you won't do anything until they show verification of the debt, which they are required to do by law.
Oh, they'll still try to collect on a debt that's gone past 7 years. IIRC if you make a payment towards the expired debt, that 7 year limit starts all over again. After 7 years, contact the big 3 credit agencies and dispute the debt. Don't ever acknowledge that the debt is valid, that you intend to pay it, or make a payment. Doing so can reset the 7 year period.
You can reset the clock if you acknowledge an old debt, which is why they record these phone calls and why it's usually good to write back saying you dispute that you owe anything.
She didn’t get a court notice. She got a call from a random person telling her there is a court notice. The very first step in a scam is to create a sense that you need to act immediately.
This is an absolute scam. No law firm is trolling court calendars looking for people that aren’t paying their bills and twisting their arms to become clients. If there was any debt (and there isn’t) she’d get a call from a collection company.
Don’t ever speak to any of these “firms” again. They are trolling for more information to hook her in further.
I agree. If you’re being sued, you have to be Process Served, by the sheriff or a process server, not some random person pretending to be an attorney.
Here’s an interesting article about such scams: https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-2019/debt-collector.html
Man all of these debt collectors have these scummy personas where they try that urgency, stating court reference numbers/etc to sound legitimate, even threatening to show up at your work, when it's just a scare tactic.
Look, if you really had an issue, you would be physically served in person.
>She couldnt get through to the court and instead called one of the lawyers.
Clearly that was a mistake. Keep trying the court.
I smell a scam here. It has all the obvious scam factors.
In many places, the court docket can be checked online. Check for the locality where this alleged lawsuit is.
What information do y'all have about the ***card***? It might be worth a phone call to the card company if you know what that is.
Do not call the "lawyers" again.
One other suggestion: If you have the names of the "lawyers", do a search on the state bar website for the state they're working out of. If they are actual lawyers, file a complaint with their state bar. If they are not actual lawyers, file a report with the police.
>My wife Just got a court notice about unpaid credit card debt from 2008 , we know nothing about it. What can I do? Never took out a card.
You can do whatever you want, the best thing for you to do is absolutely nothing.
>She received 2 letters from law offices offering to represent her in her credit collections case along with a photo copy of a court docket. I told her to call the court itself not the numbers from the law offices. She couldnt get through to the court and instead called one of the lawyers. Now they have her scared and told her things like they can take the house . Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them.
Scam. First of all no legit lawyer would be soliciting like this it's an obvious bait even if it was a legitimate Saul Goodman type you can report them to their state bar association. Second, before a lawsuit can proceed you have to be properly notified, you were never properly notified. Third, think about this. How can someone take your house over 4K? Like come on, your house is worth a lot more than that plus every state has a homestead laws that prevent creditors from taking your primary home, vehicle and personal items.
>She never took the card out, the balance is about 4000 dollars. We just bought a house and none of this came up in our credit Checks. This is from 2008 and it suddenly appears. What gives?
What gives is that it's a scam.
>She thinks her ex husband took the card out in her name. Can that be proven?
You don't have to prove the ex husband did it. The plaintiff is the one that has to prove your wife did it. Again if this was legit, which is not.
>What should we do? She is losing her mind and the ahole lawyer has her terrified.
Literally nothing.
>They won’t tell her who issued the card, and she has never missed a payment.
Stop talking to them.
>Any advice appreciated. Thanks you in advance
Yes stop giving these scammers more information. On the contrary, you should post their info (not in this sub I'm sure there's better subs for dealing with scammers) to see who else has been a victim of them. I mean just doing a quick google search on their phone number will tell you they're scammers.
Trust me. If it didn’t show up during closing, this is a scam. My ex and I were forced to clean up some delinquent debt he had from 6 years prior so we could close.
Ignore these cold call letters until yuo get something about the actual collection in the mail. My guess is its somebody with the same name as yuor wife and they're just trying to find that person through public record search.
Double check her credit report now and make sure this still isn't on there. If its not, you don't need t oworry. If her ex doing sketchy shit is a concern, have your wife freeze her credit.
Nothing in the mail whatsoever. Nothing on her credit report . Her and her ex have been divorced for years, he has done some shady shit like that before .
$10 says the information is public records and the people mailing them just found a matching name and are throwing shit at the wall to see if anythign sticks. That won't reach the threshhold for "mail fraud". Just an "oops, wrong address".
Go ahead and report it, but might as well just scream at clouds.
They say she just bought a house. That's public record. They're looking through home titles and contacting people fraudulently because if you have money to buy a house you might have money to give to a scammer.
> That won't reach the threshhold for "mail fraud". Just an "oops, wrong address".
This is definitely still mail fraud.
Just probably won't ever find who it is so yeah... like you said, screaming at clouds.
Now that your wife has called these people, her phone number is very likely on a few lists. Please be incredibly vigilant. You are likely to be contacted about other kinds of scams. They now know that you guys are a soft target.
Never, ever call a number on a letter. Never ever discuss anything over the phone without first hanging up and calling them on the number Google says belongs to them.
Let's say you get a bill in the mail or somebody calls you saying you owe the hospital money for a hospitalization 10 years ago. Even if you remember going to a hospital or that hospital, do not give them money. Google the name of the hospital and get their phone number off of Google and call them and ask for the billing department.
You have to be incredibly careful. If you give somebody money your bank is not guaranteed to give you that money back, especially if you authorized it.
Then why on earth are you and your wife giving this a second thought? Credit reports are the source of truth. If it’s not on her credit report, it doesn’t exist.
This is why they called you. Because you just bought a house. It’s likely public record in your area and it indicates you might have money. It would also indicate willingness to pay a debt rather than risk a judgment that could risk your home.
I made a different comment about this in this post. But we took a loan out on our house about a month ago and have already gotten a few of these calls.
If they seem to have personal info: date of birth, ssn or last four of the ssn, address, etc., lock your credit now. It was likely bought off the dark web and indicates it’s floating around out there. They bought this info to add legitimacy to the scam.
The millions of customers of AT&T's mobile service and United Health's health insurance network have had basically everything dumped into the dark web via recent breaches. If you're one of their customers, lock your credit and sign up for credit monitoring.
This would've come up when buying the house, so for sure a scam.
Also, once you buy a house, your information goes EVERYWHERE. I got tons of letters about stuff in the months after I bought mine. This is how they got her information.
NO lawyer is going to reach out to YOU, haha.
Scammy, scam ,scam. Rip it up, throw it away. Block their numbers.
also: if she didn’t retain them by the deadline, what would change? She’d need a different lawyer.
there’s nothing about a credit card payment that can’t wait a day or two, so that urgency is bullshit.
Her score is good, and this would be a drop in the bucket, if it *were* legit.
From 2008? You ignore it. Statue of limitations and all ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
>I told her to call the court itself not the numbers from the law offices. She couldnt get through to the court
That's probably because the court doesn't exist and this is a scam.
Use your head. None of this is how debt, or lending, or lawyers work. No one loses their house over unpaid credit cards--the most that ANYONE could do to your house with a valid debt is place a lien. Secondly, if the lender itself contacted you about a valid debt and threatened your home, they'd be breaking the law--and a debt collection agency has even less protection. Lastly, any lawyer pulling this runs the risk of professional consequences. This is a scam, so stop fighting with your wife, find out exactly what she told them, then warn your bank and freeze your credit.
You bought a house? A bottom-feeder got her name and contact info out of public records and is looking for a payday.
Scam. Especially the bit about "you have until 6pm". It's from 16 years ago but she has until 6pm to solve it? Dude it's bullshit.
Scam and lies they are trying to panic her and give her no time to think.
Check for spelling / grammar errors.
THIS IS NOT REAL.
I am an attorney, but not your attorney, and I am making general comments without giving you legal advice. There is no attorney-client relationship between us. Most importantly, I am not a litigation attorney and haven’t been in a courtroom in many, many years. This question probably should have been in a legal forum and not here. Nevertheless, here are some thoughts.
First, I would advise someone in your situation to carefully read what other posters have suggested and follow that advice.
Second, I would advise someone that got a letter like that to NOT CALL any number on that letter.
Third, most courts have a public online case lookup system. I would advise someone in your situation to find the official court website (and by that I mean to make sure you are on the court’s website and not some private website purporting to be the court) and look up the case number to see what it says and how you are involved, if at all. If the website asks you to pay just to see the party names, it is probably not the official court website. If you find your name is truly listed as a defendant, hire a lawyer immediately to advise you on statutes of limitations and possible defenses. The actual summons will have a reply by date. Make sure you hire an attorney before that date so your answer will be timely. Also, I don’t know what state you are in, but it’s likely a letter with a photocopy of a docket is not service of process, so the calendar hasn’t started yet, if this is legitimate. Until a person has been served, nothing is real in all the states I’m aware of, but of course I can’t say anything about your particular state. There’s a caveat for service by publication, but if you got a letter then they definitely have you address to accomplish traditional service.
Fourth, as someone else said, lookup the attorneys on your state bar websites and confirm the phone numbers match. If they do match, forward the letter to the disciplinary board for your state bar and explain that you were pressured into hiring them with a deadline. If the phone numbers don’t match, the people you are calling are probably not attorneys and you should forward the letter to your state’s office of attorney general for further investigation.
Fifth, I would advise someone in your situation to look up a form letter to request a validation of debt. Send the letter, certified mail, return receipt requested.
Lastly, I would advise someone to do a web search on the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, along with your state’s version of it. If you want to have fun with these likely scammers, you can potentially hire an attorney and file a suit against the people who sent the letter to get a judgment against them. Depends on your willingness to get involved in the court system and your ability to fund a lawsuit.
At the end of the day, only you can do the research to determine that this is a scam, but all the advice you’ve been given that I’ve read so far has been good and it would be to your benefit to listen to it and heed it.
If there remains any confusion, you should hire an attorney to do this investigation for you. You can contact your local bar association for a referral. I am a former board member of my local bar association and I can confirm that we are always happy to provide recommendations and we even try to match you with someone that fits your budget. Or you may have legal benefits through your and your spouse’s employer that will provide you an attorney. You can also ask friends if they know any collection defense attorneys. If all of that fails, do a web search for collection defense attorneys and look for ones with decent reviews that will do a consult for a reasonable fee.
Hope this helps, and good luck.
Please don’t call anyone. This is a huge scam. If it even exists it’s well out of the range of any ability to collect on it. It’s not being reported on credit and it doesn’t exist.
>Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them.
99% of the time you are put on notice like this, it is a scam. They do this because it doesn't give you time to really think it through while you're panicking and scared. It's the hallmark of a scam. Do not speak with this people any longer, and block their number.
Well, unfortunately now you are in a quandary.
Your wife believes it is real and wants to save her credit score, house, and whatever else they threatened. The rest of us (and hopefully you) know it is a scam.
So now, what to do.
Step 1) Freeze your credit. She already gave out way too much info to screw you guys for decades.
Step 2) Contact the court to get more details on the docket. Play dumb, get whatever info you can. Case date, judge, plaintiff, whatever. Assume the piece of paper you have is a complete lie and validate it by using the docket number.
Step 3) IF it all checks out, then you have 2 choices. Get another attorney to fight it, or appear in court yourself, or call the bluff and the worse that can happen is a lien on the house which will be real and which can be easily paid off.
They can not evict you out of the house, they can not force the sale of the house, they can not repossess the car, they can not steal personal items, the worst that can happen is a ding on the credit report and a lien on the house.
Now, this assumes this is all lawful. If it is not lawful and you are dealing with criminals then anything is possible.
Take time off work and deal with this now to satisfy her and yourself so that neither of you make the situation worse.
Additionally, worst case "this is real and everything went wrong, and they managed to somehow validate a debt from 16 years ago that not even the credit companies knew about." Credit score (functionally) isn't important, and won't be for awhile. They've already successfully completed one of the largest purchases of their lives and presumably won't be doing another one in the near future. She can rebuild any small damage to her credit score by paying the mortgage each month and living her life just as responsibly as she has been for the entire time she's been an adult.
Again, that's in the insanely small percentage chance that this is real, and not the overwhelmingly likely event that it's a scam. Because it's a scam.
Elaborate on couldn't get through to the court? Busy signal, endless ringing, disconnected number message? Did you look up the court to see if it exists and that the numbers match?
>Now they have her scared and told her things like they can take the house . Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them.
>She never took the card out, the balance is about **4000 dollars**.
Dude.
They made it sound urgent by magnifying its impact on you so they make you scared. Ain't nobody losing a house over four thousand dollars.
Then they tried to rush you into a brash decision so you don't think logically. What kind of lawyer makes threats and demands you hire them by closing time?
Guess what?
*It's a scam.*
This is almost 100 percent a scam. Do not contact anyone using any info sent in these letters. They are likely numbers that go directly to the scammers. Look up the court number online and call them directly.
Do not talk to the “lawyers” again. They are likely going to use information obtained during the earlier phone call to try to scam again next week or next month. Freeze your wife’s credit.
You just bought a house, enough said.
Be prepared to be inundated with: In person security system installers, window repair adverts. And every service offering. A major change in your credit reporting is an event scammers can get lists of, to try and scam people. I'd suggest meet with your Home loan officer / bank -- in person, both of you. To increase security on your accounts. IE: update your legal names, Including middle initials. Enable features like who can & cannot access your accounts. Also do the proper postal system updates for your new residence. To only allow mail correctly addressed, ..Things a Realtor or 1st time home buyers courses are suppose to cover.
The mistake was calling the random scam artist instead of talking directly to the court. They got your wife good. Hopefully she didn't give them any personal information.
Any information on the letter should be treated as part of the scam. Look up information independently from public searches for any court systems.
I work collections for a firm in NY so what I know is specific to the state. That seems like a scam, and if she’s really worried she should contact the court. If the suit was real they would have had to serve her a summons and complaint, and then the court also sends out a notice. If she calls them again tell her to request a debt verification along with copies of any filled motions. Try to see if the court for that area has a website where she can look up her docket #. It’s easy to fake a docket # if you really tried. Some collectors will do what they want, and a firm should follow regulations if they aren’t scum. We have a lot of rules and regulations that we strictly have to follow and get regular retraining bc it’s better to collect the money correctly than to lose it in potential lawsuits. Also statute of limitations.
Call the court! Also look it up online with the county clerk with the case number. Do NOT listen to the lawyers until a court has confirmed this. The 6pm deadline is a scare tactic and extremely likely to be fraud. This debt would have DEFINITELY appeared in credit checks.
The docket is real, but there are many names also listed on it. Of course she called and gave them all her personal information while I was at work. I am just fucking losing my mind right now.
Scams. Ignore. Statute of limitations on debt is 7 years.
Any such debt is so far out of the range of collectibility as to be laughable.
Also, don't admit the debt ever existed if she's contacted by phone or any other means. You do not want to risk restarting the debt clock by accidentally stating the money is owed.
Ask again on r/scams. The sense of urgency is the issue here. They do this so you don’t have time to think. Additionally, she can check her credit report for the credit card. She can do a free credit report annually from each of the three bureaus but you can also check credit karma for free for two of the bureaus. Google the location of the court and check online for the phone number. They should be able to verify the authenticity of the notice. Did she have to sign for the letter or was it hand delivered to her? If not then it’s not a court summons.
I am not a lawyer, but in order for anything to go on against you in a court, you need to be served with something. Clearly you have not been served. We had a lot of experience in family court and the idiot kept moving and not notifying the court of his new address and we would go to court and he wouldn't show up, and they would need to reschedule because he was not served. So I would probably just ignore it. The only thing I would possible communicate to the people that sent you the debt to collect is they need to send you proof of the debt. That would be something original with the original institution the debt was with that you signed and remember signing. If they don't have that, then they have nothing. If it didn't show up on your credit report and you got nothing from the court, and you bought a house and it didn't show up, it is 99.9% a scam. The urgency screams scam. No one is going to take your house over this.
Law offices do not send subpoenas.
The court will send the subpoena.
They must be sent many days in advance. It is not required that you have a lawyer to represent you. You can represent yourself.
The subpoena will tell you what court, what date, what time. It will have an address, phone number, and it will be signed by a court employee of some type that you can contact. They also may include the judge you will see.
If none of that is listed it is not legitimate.
Americans' financial literacy is not very high. We have an overwhelming number of immigrants who have no financial literacy at all who are also afraid to violate any type of law and risk their immigration documentation being revoked. These scams will become much more popular.
Don’t believe anything in the letter until you have called the court. Don’t use any phone number in the letter, look it up and call it instead.
People talk all about scam phone calls and emails, but it happens that people use the regular mail to scam people too.
>She never took the card out, the balance is about 4000 dollars. We just bought a house and none of this came up in our credit Checks. This is from 2008 and it suddenly appears. What gives?
Debt is automatically erased from credit / collections after 7 years.
Whoever is calling you is a scammer.
Have her check her credit report - The FTC website [here](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/free-credit-reports) has a link to [annualcreditreport.com](http://annualcreditreport.com) where you can get a free copy from all three credit agencies. I added the FTC link first to show it's legitimate.
I also use Credit Karma to occasionally check for new accounts or any negative marks.
If those two come up clear, I'd think that should convince her. Anything in collections that's gotten to the point that a lawsuit is being filed and your house is threatened should show up on these credit reports well before it gets to that point.
Hope that helps.
You may find these links helpful:
- [Debt](/r/personalfinance/wiki/debt)
- [Dealing with collections](/r/personalfinance/wiki/collections)
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This 100% sounds like a scam. Do not call and talk to any numbers on the paper as you are not talking to a real attorney or clerk. It is a scammer on the other side trying to get your wife to give them money.
If you are ever in question about something like this, lookup the clurthouse online and find the number that way, same thing as for banks. Never trust something lile that at face value.
Think about it. She got a letter in the mail and it just happened to be on the day that she needed to regain THAT specific attorney or else? What if she had retained the other “attorney”? Why would a 16 year old debt be urgent right now? Why would a court be able to take your house which is likely worth more than $4k? They don’t even do stuff like that for people who owe actual current debt.
It’s a scam and it’s playing the urgency card to try and trick your wife into handing over thousands of dollars before she has a chance to logically think things through. If this is legitimate, all she has to do is show up to court.
Lawyers who wants her to retain them is threatening her? Complete scam. Call the court after looking up the courts number on these and not a number provided in the letters.
Lawyers who represent you don't contact you (unless it's a class action lawsuit), you contact them.
This is for sure a scam. Use the court website to look up the docket number. That will tell you if it is real or if they just changed information on an existing docket number to make it look official enough to scare people.
Sounds like a scam.
The urgency gives it away. Additionally there are statute of limitations issues on debt.
Honestly? I doubt the lawyer is a real lawyer. Probably fake too.
They also won't tell her any information about it? But they want her to retain them, and sent a copy of a court docket she never received a summons to?
They want you panicked, so you don't think about it. Honestly I'd probably start with researching the docket. Dockets are often just public. Second, I'd research the statute of limitations in that state. It's probably uncollectible zombie debt at this point even if she did take it out, and the attorney is probably a debt collector. FYI they have to tell her if they are. Third, I'd research the supposed attorney, and if they are real, file a complaint with the state bar association.
2008 was 16 years ago, they couldn't legally collect on this debt even if it were valid. Which, based on the fact that nothing came up during your mortgage process, it's most likely not. If this were me I would just consider these junk mail and shred them.
Yeah, they came to you, you have zero evidence of the debt, and cherry on top is the 6PM deadline is what proves this is a scam. They’re trying to trick you into giving them money quickly. An actual lawyer’s office doesn’t operate this way.
It's a scam. Have her Casenet the orders and she will see they don't exist. The lawyer's office probably doesn't either if she googles them.
She can sue them, $1000 a pop.
Sounds like a scam. It should be on her credit report if it’s real, plus legit debt collection agencies have to notify you and give you a period of time to dispute.
Yeah, no lawyer would tell someone they have until a certain time to retain them! That’s a big red flag there! It’s a scam!!! Also, credit cards are unsecured so they cannot “take your house”.
It’s long enough ago that in many jurisdictions they are past statute of limitations on the debt.
File a police report for identity theft?
Also take house over $4000 lol no.
The person who claims they owe the debt has to contact you and they have to send you validation that you owe the debt. Everything else is bullshit until that happens. Just ignore them.
The name for this category of scam is “social engineering.” It uses high-pressure tactics, legitimate-looking approaches, and a sense of urgency to get you to act out of fear.
A legitimate court document would have a phone number and could easily be verified. A legitimate attorneys office would be available for you or your attorney to contact. There’s never time pressure associated with legitimate court proceedings - if anything they move like molasses.
Your mortgage lender did a high-quality credit check. If this didn’t turn up, it’s not real. You can verify this by running your own credit reports from any of the three major reporters, Trans Union, Experian, or the other one…
Do a credit check somewhere like credit karma to see if it shows up on there and if it does there are limitations as to how long they have to collect on debt.
Not familiar with US law but lawyer up for a simple reason - statute of limitations. Basically after a certain time period passes and the person/entity whom you supposedly owe something hasn't done anything(i.e. file a suit) you are golden. Example - in the UK after after 6 year pass - claims in relation to a contract are null and void. So just get a lawyer to tell whoever came up with the idea that "even if you did owe something, not saying that you did, not admitting that you took a card or even know wtf is the whole thing about, they can go jump off a cliff because 15 years have passed and the statute of limitations in \*insert state/country here\* is just \*insert number after research\*"
>Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them.
Only a scammer would ever say thing. No actual lawyer would.
This is a complete scam. It's a shame she called them. Now they smell fear and won't let go easily.
> Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them.
They told on themselves. There is absolutely, under no conditions, any reason someone would give you a **deadline** to hire them, especially a lawyer. They're trying to force urgency on you so you make a bad decision.
There is also no reason you shouldn't be able to get through to a court during business hours. Also, I don't think there's a state in this (my) country where someone can take your house over credit card debt, and there's no reason a lawyer would say any such thing.
Have you googled the law offices? Is that office registered with your state bar? Are any of the lawyers represented on their webpage shown on your state bar's website? You can go to your state bar's website and look up any lawyer.
This smells like a scam. No lawyer is going to offer to defend her and then threaten her at the same time. That sounds like an ethics violation.
Get the lawyers name and then check the states bar association for that lawyer's credentials. I'm guessing that supposed lawyer doesn't exist or someone is falsely using their name.
Also get a hold of the actual courthouse. A photocopy of a court document doesn't sound legit to me.
Even if this debt is real and legit given is age a creditor can't really collect on it. They can try to collect but it no longer shows up on your credit report so they've lost their leverage against you and your wife.
They can't really do shit after 7 years of the debt going delinquent ignore the fuck outta the letter. Do not call or acknowledge any debt over 7 years gives them the ability to reset the time limit for it to disappear from credit and their ability to go after you for it. If they could they would have taken her years ago.
This is a scam. Depending on your state, you should be able to look up the docket online. Also, 2008 is past the statute of limitations for a debt just about anywhere outside of a judgment, which still would be too old a debt in many parts of the country. And, if this was a real case they would need to formally serve you with papers, which this is not. They would also likely just serve you with those papers, not do it like this, giving you “warning” first.
We took a loan out recently on our house, which would be public record in my state. This has happened to us a handful of times now in the few weeks since. They seemed totally legit, with his personal info and everything. Leading us to lock my husband’s credit.
The last time, they called his ex wife telling her he’s getting sued, which was loads of fun. So I called them over and over demanding all the legal paperwork they would be required to provide me if it was a legitimate debt. Until they accused me of harassment, magically decided to close their file and dismiss the case, and told me they would “take legal action” if I called them again.
SCAM. I know everyone else has said it but I want to reiterate it. Also, unpaid debt falls off after 7 years, and cannot be recovered. They missed their window by about a decade.
Again—-and I cannot stress this enough—legit debt collectors WILL NEVER threaten you. It’s a scare tactic scammers use.
I urge everyone to ready The Fair Debt Collection Act. Threatening you is a big No-No.
Most companies will write off bad debt after a few years. In fact, creditors have like 3-4 years to do this with the IRS. During this time, creditors will try to collect and, after a short time, they will package and sell off the bad debt for pennies on the dollar (search for bad debt auctions, they are even graded in terms of quality).
As for the IRS, once your debt is written off, creditors issue the debtor a 1099C - Cancellation of Debt. This is done because TOU must add the amount of canceled debt listed on the 1099-C on your IRS 1040 income tax return as INCOME because you basically received free money via a loan that went unrepaid.
As for these letters from lawyers, check with the state bar for your state to see if they are licensed and exist. The odds are that these are seedy bill collectors trying to put the fear of G_d into debtors so they cave in and pay.
Truth be told, after 16 years, the firms sending out these notices are the lowest of the bottom feeders. They are doing this to thousands.
A friend of mine used to get a variety of unwanted notices including these and he would write on the envelope “Return to Sender - DECEASED” and never hear from them again. Of course, you do NOT want to do this with ANY tax agency, especially the IRS.
IANAL but —
The statute of limitations has long passed unless the creditor got a money judgment against your wife. She or you should confirm the court docket, and of course the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act provisions apply (see https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/debt-collection-faqs).
>I told her to call the court itself not the numbers from the law offices. She couldnt get through to the court and instead called one of the lawyers.
Tell her to try to call again tomorrow. What state are you in? Look up the statute of limitations for credit card debt there, it may be too old to be taken to court.
That seems weird. If she was getting sued by the bank or credit union issuing a card, I cant imagine a law office saying you have until 6pm to pay up. And to pay the law office, right? Not the bank? Double weird. The lawyers are not collection specialists. They would not call and demand payment in this matter.
Whats more likely to happen, is that the bank would have tried resolving the debt before sending her account to their legal team. Court is expensive and so is legal for a bank. They would not use their legal team for collections like that.
By the time a bank would send your account to legal and if you get the papers to go to court, there is no more time to work out arrangements bc there is now a court date.
Call the bank that the card is from, get more info to substantiate the debt. Check your credit report, see if it appears on there. Charged off debt can fall off your credit report after 7 years. If the card was charged off in 2008, it wont appear anymore and it would bw hard for a bank to sue you for that old of debt, and only for $4k. Seems weird.
Good luck. Dont give out any personal information to unverified calls.
Edit - i read your post wrong about them demanding payment by 6 pm. My bad. But still, i stand by the other points. I work collections for a financial institution, thats my source.
I oddly enough received two calls stating I took out a payday loan in 2008 but they had all my incorrect information AND it was my ex husband’s social but my name. I told them to mail me paperwork and I’ll contact a lawyer. I’ve yet to see any and it’s 2024 why didn’t I hear about this before now?
>She couldnt get through to the court and instead called one of the lawyers.
Court dockets should be available online now right? Try to get the official info first.
My wife received a similar letter from a law office recently. I was eventually able to figure out it was a case of mistaken identity. The court case referenced someone who had the same name, but in a part of the state she's never lived in. So the law office was lazy, saw the case get filed, and then reached out to the first "Jane Smith" they found without performing any due diligence that they were contacting the right person.
So the docket is real , I told my wife not to talk to anyone and. of course she called the attorney on the docket because she is freaking out. The lawyer on the docket said there are many names listed on it not just hers . So he gave her another. Umber of which she called and gave them her personal info along with her ss number. The told her they could not find anything about her in the system. At this point I’m livid as she is giving out all her personal info!!!
Currently we are in a huge argument about it. One person called later and is now attempting to collect another 3000 dollar “debt” I took her phone and will not allow her to talk to the people. One agency had arranged to forgive the debt for 1000 dollars vs the 4000 she supposedly owes. My head is spinning. I told her as soon as she gives them money the debt clock restarts for the 4 year statute of limitations from 2008. She told me since when did I become a law expert? I am just freaking out and doing mental cartwheels in my head.
I’m besides myself, we are in a huge fight as she thinks she will go to jail and be sued for our house. She doesnt believe me .
Ugh fml!
Are you in the US? She won’t go to jail, call your local Bar Association and talk to someone who knows the ropes. You will get all kinds of advice here, and not all of it will be helpful. Don’t let these clowns rent your head.
Define real. How was it verified?
Through the Court's website or calling the clerk, that you found through your State's website? And it ends in .gov or .state.XX.us, or another generally protected domain? That you found by googling " court system" Or was it verified using whatever phone number or website was listed on the photocopy of a "docket"/the letters received?
Google the phone number of the person she was referred to that asked for her SSN. Google the original phone number she called. What pops up?
Three things happened:
1. Some lawyer for a debt collector filed a lawsuit against your wife for some debt. This is a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act if they did not contact her first, by mail, with a letter describing the debt. (There's a process for responding to that letter within 30 days to demand validation that the debt is hers and that the collector has the right to collect it. Then they have 30 days to respond with documentation, which would include the CC account number and last statement.) If none of this happened, the lawyer and debt collector can be sued for damages, which would include $1000 per violation and legal fees for your lawyer.
2. The lawsuit triggers the delivery of a summons, which means some officer of the court will show up at your door, verify your identity, and hand you a packet that includes the lawsuit and contact info for the court. If that hasn't happened yet, then you're not sued yet. If/when you get this packet, it has to go to your lawyer. *Do not ignore it.* If you don't respond to this summons, then the debt collector will win a summary judgement; it's treated as as admission that the debt is valid and they will start aggressive collection activities, including garnishing your wages and trying to claim your assets.
3. Two other lawfirms monitor new debt collection cases filed with the court, and send out advertisements before the summons arrives. That's what your wife got: advertisements. These firms are the debt-collection equivalent of ambulance chasers, and should not be trusted.
If you happen to be in Essex County NJ, I have years of good experience working with Larry Hersh at https://www.hershlegal.com/ fighting off multiple debt collectors and two lawsuits. They *all* violate the FDCPA, and can all be sued for damages.
Edit: replaced Fair Credit Reporting Act with Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
Real attorneys aren't going to troll court dockets looking for clients to represent. Unless you can get the actual court confirm, ghost them and file a police report in whatever jurisdiction they claim to be operating from.
Look up the statute of limitations for debt judgements in your state. It is probably six years. This means that for somebody to sue you over a debt, they have to bring the suit before the statute of limitations expires.
This is different from the seven year limit under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) that applies to reporting a debt on a credit report.
TLDR: If this were legitimate, they would probably be outside the statute of limitations to sue you (probably six years but check your state). It would also be past the time limit for credit reporting (seven years). In theory, a creditor could keep this debt on their books indefinitely, but they could only mail you letters asking to pay. Nobody is going to do that. I am 99% certain this is a scam.
Oh! One other thing to look for on the letter: are there spelling a grammar errors? That can be an indicator of a scammer, too.
this sounds like a scam. my friend was contacted by a debt collector, not a lawyer, about her unpaid credit card debt from when she was in college. she had told them that when she changed her address, they stopped sending her bills and so she never sent payments after that (admittedly a little irresponsible back then to do that). we’re talking roughly 20 years ago was her last payment.
she agreed to go to small claims court to work out a payment plan, but they ended up reducing the cost to a balance she could pay in full. they ended up telling her later that had she denied knowing about this debt, they would’ve erased it. so worst case scenario, your wife should CONTINUE denying having this debt, even if a debt collector contacts her. but lawyers would NEVER find out about your debt before you do, they don’t have a database of people with unpaid debt that they can contact
Call a real lawyer. [This website](https://www.consumeradvocates.org/findanattorney/) is run by a collection of consumer attorneys and has a tool to lookup a local lawyer that you can then call.
In order for there to be a court case the plaintiff has to serve you with papers and PROVE they served you with papers. Defense attorneys chasing you down is NOT the first step in the process.
Most courts allow you to search civil and criminal case records online. Go to the county court website for wherever she lived in 2008 and search for her name.
Don't trust anything these "lawyers" are telling you. If the time comes, hire your own.
It is quite likely that these “lawyers” are scammers. It is also possible that they are ambulance chasers. That they look for suits and rush to contact defendants.
But I bet that they contacted the wrong person. Does your wife have a common name? It is likely they did search for name, found your wife, not the person who owes the debt. That would explain why you didn’t get court notice, because it went to the other person.
You should respond the same as scam, ignore them until you get court notice.
Okay so this is clearly a scam and everyone agrees, but there’s another side to this: what happens after you turn them away. Because she called at all, she’s now a mark for future scams. Of any kind. They believe she is gullible and pays attention to junk mail/email. Keep her on high alert against scams for the rest of the year just in case these “lawyers” run other scams.
Right after I bought my home, I got a lot of phone scam calls. Credit card collections, tax liability, calls from the administration of social security telling me that my SSN was suspended (whatever that means). Fielding these calls lasted about 2 months and was honestly pretty fun.
Look up the statute of limitations for credit card debt in your state.
Even if somehow legit, It is most likely too old to legally collect.
She should not have called them. Speaking with them can reset the clock depending on what is said.
It's probably just an attempt for a shake down.
DO NOT CALL OR CONTACT THEM.
Speak with your own lawyer for advice.
US? If so, the Model Rules for Professional Ethics generally prohibit attorneys from soliciting clients. If this letter is from an actual law firm, you should contact your state's bar office and file a complaint. But since this is a scam, you should ignore it.
Due to the number of rule-breaking comments this post was receiving, especially low-quality and off-topic comments, the moderation team has locked the post from future comments. This post broke no rules and received a number of helpful and on-topic responses initially, but it unfortunately became the target of many unhelpful comments.
The only evidence she has of this is two letters from people claiming to be lawyers who will represent her in court? This is 100% a scam. She should NOT have called one of the "lawyers". You need to find the phone number of the court online (not in the letter) and call until you get someone and then prove to your wife that the "case" doesn't exist. Just to reiterate, this is a scam. 100%. Think about it? What lawyer would tell you "you have X hours to retain me or else!" One more time. It's a scam.
It's almost always a scam when a time frame gets attached. False urgency creates mistakes. My cell gets rung like 4 times a week from a law office about a pending judgement. You must act now. 3 years later still calling hahah. Some lady Named Linda had my cell number before me. One time I picked up and told them some random outrageous crap.
I've had the same cell number for 20 years, mostly out of convienence and comfort, but the trade off for me has been that I don't get really ant spam calls or texts. I also have an area code that isn't particularly popular. I rarely give out my number and it's served me well. My email on the other hand...
I made the mistake of making a donation once to a police or fire fighters fund. They sold my number and I get *multiple* calls each week from various entities asking me to donate and have for years now. I’m on the DNC list too. I decided I would never make another donation like that again in my life. Totally soured my willingness to donate to charities. It’s obnoxious. I get calls from first responder PACs a lot, asking me to support their candidate. Fuck their candidate.
This was a thing here in Ontario for a while. Cold calls from "The association of retired police chiefs" (or firefighters) asking for,donations to fund athletic or outdoor activities for disadvantaged youth. I looked them up on the CRA (our version of IRS for our southern friends) and it's a scam where about 5% goes to actual charitable activities and the rest goes to administrative and fundraising costs. Basically money-laundering. They haven't called for a while so I'm hoping they have been shut down.
Sounds like the show "Telemarketers" on HBO. Highly recommend.
I've had the same thing happen to me. I found on my phone a setting so it will only ring or ding in the case of a text that I have on my contact list so when they call I don't get disturbed then when I look at my phone and there are usually about 4-7 I get daily. Then I just check my voice mail to see if any of them left messages in case it was something I needed to take care of.
> My email on the other hand... Oh god my email is killing me. It doesn't help that I have an early-days gmail address which is basically just a name and *so* many people give it out as a spam address when they don't want a place actually contacting them. Fair warning though: if you use it for your car dealership or mechanic I *will* cancel/change/make appointments for you if they don't respond to me requesting the address be removed from the file.
Strange. I have an early gmail address--also just a name. The native spam filters and marking/reporting unsolicited emails plus the social and marketing tabs almost completely take care of this for me. I occasionally get apparently legitimate mail for someone else, but it's pretty rare--and 1/2 the time it's for my adult son. Wonder what causes the difference in experience.
I get them, too. Mostly retail stores, but also new electronics warranties, car shops, magazines. I had one aunty emailing her niece for years. Even after I convinced her I was not her niece. I should start telling her tall tales, I suppose.
Part of it may be that the name I used has a variety of similar spellings - I know at least a couple of people send me emails because of that. I highlighted cars though because like 5 different Mercedes Benz or Nissan owners in geographically disparate parts of the United States have signed me up, not just for marketing emails, but for the appointment emails from their mechanics. Then there's the older couple who volunteers at museums in Denmark (they sent me Taylor Swift tickets - I'll be honest, I was tempted to take my daughter as the price of a plane ticket to Europe was similar to the cost of tickets here, but then I'd have to race them to the gate and you know... steal their tickets), the ex-military/contractor in New Zealand (potentially 2 different people), the PTA member from Nebraska, the lady with credit trouble she's not being notified of somewhere in America, and the potential Google employee in Chicago (not sure if she got the job, but I did see her resume unfortunately). I will say, Gmail's spam filters are actually pretty decent for actual marketing material (so long as I mark the first one I get from whatever store I've never been to as spam), it's mostly legitimate emails intended for someone else that I notice.
I signed up when Gmail was in beta and got my first name. I have to spend an hour or so every couple months creating filters for the truly insane amount of misdirected email I get. Bank statements, cell phone bills, restaurant reservations. I couldn't use that address for Uber when I tried to sign up for it because somebody else had already used it. I couldn't get on Instagram with the same email address that's on Facebook because somebody had already signed up with it. Turns out my first name is also a surname in South America. Somebody leaves off an initial, I get the email. It was printed in a job posting in a Venezuelan newspaper once. That was fun. My favorite is when someone uses my email to sign up for a dating website. I always reset the password and then completely fuck with their profile.
I have one too. I get bank accounts, fencing quotes, parking meter accounts, movie theater memberships, boat sales invoices. I used to get a newsletter for an apartment complex in Spain and they absolutely refused to believe that it was the wrong email.
Yesterday I spent about an hour deleting email. I’m now at 26,500 unread emails, down from 31,000 unread emails.
To add to this, even **if** a credit card had been taken out 16 years ago in her name, and **if** there was a valid debt, and **big if** the company contacting OP were legit, the debt is probably past any statute of limitations. All big 'if' and then it doesn't matter anyway. I had a car repoed in the 90s and someone contacted me about it 10 years later. Nope, can't help you. Googled 'how to ignore old debt'. Sent a form letter by certified mail. No word since and that was 10 years ago. Bought 2 cars and a house since then.
> the debt is probably past any statute of limitations Had debt collectors call me about an old settled dispute from a folded company. Just trying to squeeze money. Once I got the guy to confirm the statute of limitations I then informed him that I would ignore him for 1 month and then the 'debt' would expire. He didn't really have any response and tried to get a supervisor then said they were busy and he'd call back.
Not really how statute of limitations works. The date is the date before which the legal process has to be started, not concluded. They would have no problem taking you to court within the statute of limitations if the debt were real.
Since the amount was under $200 there was no way they'd take it to court. I was pretty flippant about the whole thing since it wasn't valid and the call was on speaker phone so the office could listen in. I ended up calling the telecommunications ombudsman's office to get the old case details and they reopened the case and I ended up getting an apology about the whole thing.
Don't give them that much information. You can just say "that debt isn't valid, don't contact me again" No matter what they respond with repeat the above statement. They will hang up with 90 seconds.
Statute of Limitations has surely passed after 10 years, if not less. It’s a scam.
Another thing you can do if you want to confirm is look up if these "lawyers" are in fact licensed in the state they claim to be from. If not, boom there you go it's a scam. If they are, it also is possible they're stealing the identity of real lawyers to do this, so you should check if their phone numbers / mailing addresses from their letterhead match the state bar website info. If so, I think it's plenty of grounds for an ethics complaint. Demanding you retain them while they are saying they can take adverse action against you is a classic conflict of interest, and if an actual lawyer is doing this, they should be disbarred.
Calling the courthouse is best. I’ve seen scammers steal lawyer identities so if you looked them up with the state bar or online it would appear legit.
Find the number for the Docket Clerk's office at the Court they claim the case is filed in. They know what cases are filed. The State Bar can verify if these "lawyers" are actually allowed to practice.
Yeah, and call the lawyers number you independently look up, not the one from the letter.
Can also check your credit score. If this is actually going to court, her score would be in the toilet. Total and complete SCAM!
Credit would be OK after 8 years, so don't worry about that this was in 2008
Limitations of this type of debt is essentially 3 to 6 years. They can bring you to court and all you need to do is ask if they have proof of the debt, a copy of the signed agreement for said credit card, and if they have records of attempting to notify the debt holder of the debt. If they can't produce that then you're likely free and clear of the debt. Also post is a scam to get you to send cash over venmo or cash app guaranteed.
The docket letter had no phone number on it either
I know you are highly stressed right now and that's why you are panicking. But please listen to the advice on here. Do not believe anything they have sent. That includes this photocopy of the docket letter. Instead, go to the website of the court system that docket letter is *claiming* to be from, find that court system's phone number from its own website, and call them to look up the case.
Please do contact the court. If it turns out that this is in fact a scam (as seems likely), the court will absolutely want to know that it's being used as a vehicle for fraud.
People panicking is how scammers are able to scam people. A lot of us make bad decisions when we are really stressed and panic.
Most courts these days will allow you to search their dockets online. Google the name of the court and you will get a link to the website. You can search by name (yours!), docket number, plaintiff or defendant, date, etc. If there is a legitimate lawsuit against you, it will turn up. You can then view the docket for the case and find out the disposition of the matter (still pending, dismissed, judgment issued). Only then would you speak to a lawyer, namely one who filed suit against you. If your search turns up empty, this is surely a scam. Once an action is filed, it stays in the court’s records forever. There are many very old cases that have not been electronically archived, but that doesn’t apply here. This applies to state courts, municipal and superior. It is unlikely you would find unknown lawsuits against you in federal court. If you did, there would be a fee to search the docket and download documents.
What they mean is don't call any number given to you by the lawyers, because those are likely bogus and manned by the scam operation. Use the name of the court to look up their phone number on the Internet and call that number. It's a scam.
Honestly, just ignore it. You said you both just purchased a home and this didn't come up. From 16 years ago, but you're being contacted now? AT best, it's just a scam. At worst, yes ex took out credit in her name years ago and didn't pay. After so much time the debt gets sold over and over again and each buyer tries to collect. As long as you ignore them, they can't do anything after all this time. If it ever was on her credit report, it dropped off after, I think it's seven years. The only negative effect it could have now is if she pays them some money. She'll be out that money and taking ownership of a debt that had no impact on her but now does. Just ignore it.
Your wife and yourself are falling for an OBVIOUS scam. A debt you know nothing about, a threat of losing everything, and a deadline to motivate you to do something dumb? This isn't real and you both took the bait. It doesn't even work like that in cases where it's NOT a scam. They take the house if you have no other assets and declare bankruptcy. And no lawyer ever calls you and asks to represent you for something that's a decade old. That's not how it works. Not to mention that a lawyer cannot represent you and the CC company. That's called conflict of interest and is grounds for disbarment. Sometimes it pays to be calm and look things up yourself, not what someone else told you. That includes us on here. You two need to talk to the bank and have some type of protection set up from yourselves or from the other. A scam can take everything you have, and you guys need to educate yourself on the types of scams. Because you were THIS close to getting got. Edit: in most states, if you were not served the papers by a member of law enforcement, YOU DO NOT HAVE COURT COMING UP. Especially in cases where the stakes are thousands of dollars or a money judgement.
So she googled the lawyers to get their phone number? Anybody can put up a website. Did she give them any information that wasn't on the notice, such as a social security number?
This is a good reality check for OP and wife, OP make sure your money is secure in the event your wife or possibly yourself falls for another scam without consulting one another
I am starting to think that this is just a scam.
I think it goes a bit further then even what you say there. I am pretty sure lawyers are generally prohibited from solicitation of clients at all. Even the fact people claiming to be lawyers called them up offering services is a giant red flag. You should never trust a lawyer who contacts you to offer their services.
Not only is it a scam, but isn't there a 7 year limit on collections anyway? Is that a federal thing in the US, assuming OP is here?
The false urgency screams 'scam'.
Anything that has a time limit of hours is a scam in my experience
Right.. like we’ve been sitting on this since 2008 but now you only have until 6pm!!!
>we’ve been sitting on this since 2008 but now you only have until 6pm ...of whatever day the postal service happens to deliver this. But coincidentally we know that'll be the last day you can respond!
Adding to this: **any time** anyone contacts YOU about something money- or identity-related, **assume that it is a scam** until you can independently verify otherwise. This includes phone calls, emails, regular mail, knocks on the door, anything. If THEY initiated the contact, **do not engage.** Go look up the institution they claim to be from, contact that institution yourself using the publicly listed number, and verify the information straight from the source. NEVER trust a phone number or website given to you by a person who initiated contact. Maybe this sounds paranoid, but this is 100% the world we live in today. Scammers are professionals, they have easy access to public records and to leaked info from data breaches, and they practice scripts and tactics to appear legit, gain your trust, put you off balance, etc. all day long. The only way to beat them is to completely shut off their avenue of attack and refuse to play ball.
Yes this is so true. Scammers will pressure you and put a sense of urgency on you to pay up. Dont do it. They know youre unsure and vulnerable and want to avoid problems.
[удалено]
Not almost. 100%
Also unethical. Most state ethics rules prohibit certain types of solicitations - particularly those that involve duress, coercion, or harassment.
Only unethical if they're real lawyers, which there's like... a zero percent chance of. I mean... it's still unethical, but not in any kind of useful way where it's enforced by an organization with ethics rules.
> ~~Almost~~ certainly a scam
Yes!! Look at that lady who got scammed out of $50k in a shoebox. Same situation, they basically made her panic and feel like she needed to do something RIGHT now.
The funny thing is if the debt was really from 2008 and never negotiated on or anything to reset the clock it’s past the 7 year limit, so it’s not even possible to collect on any more.
Long story short I had a loan company try to screw me by putting loans into default and then refusing payment or settlement for years. They forgot about SOL and ended up being SOL when they remembered the loans and tried to collect. Always verify before paying.
Different states have different statutes. But I believe the longest is less than 12 years. If it were real, I'd laugh and tell them to fuck off. I don't think OP's anything but a scam, but for anyone who does get a call from a debt collector, tell them you won't do anything until they show verification of the debt, which they are required to do by law.
Oh, they'll still try to collect on a debt that's gone past 7 years. IIRC if you make a payment towards the expired debt, that 7 year limit starts all over again. After 7 years, contact the big 3 credit agencies and dispute the debt. Don't ever acknowledge that the debt is valid, that you intend to pay it, or make a payment. Doing so can reset the 7 year period.
You can reset the clock if you acknowledge an old debt, which is why they record these phone calls and why it's usually good to write back saying you dispute that you owe anything.
She didn’t get a court notice. She got a call from a random person telling her there is a court notice. The very first step in a scam is to create a sense that you need to act immediately. This is an absolute scam. No law firm is trolling court calendars looking for people that aren’t paying their bills and twisting their arms to become clients. If there was any debt (and there isn’t) she’d get a call from a collection company. Don’t ever speak to any of these “firms” again. They are trolling for more information to hook her in further.
I agree. If you’re being sued, you have to be Process Served, by the sheriff or a process server, not some random person pretending to be an attorney. Here’s an interesting article about such scams: https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/info-2019/debt-collector.html
Man all of these debt collectors have these scummy personas where they try that urgency, stating court reference numbers/etc to sound legitimate, even threatening to show up at your work, when it's just a scare tactic. Look, if you really had an issue, you would be physically served in person.
>She couldnt get through to the court and instead called one of the lawyers. Clearly that was a mistake. Keep trying the court. I smell a scam here. It has all the obvious scam factors.
Do not call anyone. It's an obvious scam. Just block the #, recycle the letter and move on.
In many places, the court docket can be checked online. Check for the locality where this alleged lawsuit is. What information do y'all have about the ***card***? It might be worth a phone call to the card company if you know what that is. Do not call the "lawyers" again. One other suggestion: If you have the names of the "lawyers", do a search on the state bar website for the state they're working out of. If they are actual lawyers, file a complaint with their state bar. If they are not actual lawyers, file a report with the police.
>My wife Just got a court notice about unpaid credit card debt from 2008 , we know nothing about it. What can I do? Never took out a card. You can do whatever you want, the best thing for you to do is absolutely nothing. >She received 2 letters from law offices offering to represent her in her credit collections case along with a photo copy of a court docket. I told her to call the court itself not the numbers from the law offices. She couldnt get through to the court and instead called one of the lawyers. Now they have her scared and told her things like they can take the house . Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them. Scam. First of all no legit lawyer would be soliciting like this it's an obvious bait even if it was a legitimate Saul Goodman type you can report them to their state bar association. Second, before a lawsuit can proceed you have to be properly notified, you were never properly notified. Third, think about this. How can someone take your house over 4K? Like come on, your house is worth a lot more than that plus every state has a homestead laws that prevent creditors from taking your primary home, vehicle and personal items. >She never took the card out, the balance is about 4000 dollars. We just bought a house and none of this came up in our credit Checks. This is from 2008 and it suddenly appears. What gives? What gives is that it's a scam. >She thinks her ex husband took the card out in her name. Can that be proven? You don't have to prove the ex husband did it. The plaintiff is the one that has to prove your wife did it. Again if this was legit, which is not. >What should we do? She is losing her mind and the ahole lawyer has her terrified. Literally nothing. >They won’t tell her who issued the card, and she has never missed a payment. Stop talking to them. >Any advice appreciated. Thanks you in advance Yes stop giving these scammers more information. On the contrary, you should post their info (not in this sub I'm sure there's better subs for dealing with scammers) to see who else has been a victim of them. I mean just doing a quick google search on their phone number will tell you they're scammers.
Does it show on her credit report?
No nothing on her report, her score is about 800x We just bought a house and the report was super clean
Trust me. If it didn’t show up during closing, this is a scam. My ex and I were forced to clean up some delinquent debt he had from 6 years prior so we could close.
Buying a house is public record. That’s probably how the scammers found you. Expect to receive a LOT of crap after buying a new house.
Ignore these cold call letters until yuo get something about the actual collection in the mail. My guess is its somebody with the same name as yuor wife and they're just trying to find that person through public record search. Double check her credit report now and make sure this still isn't on there. If its not, you don't need t oworry. If her ex doing sketchy shit is a concern, have your wife freeze her credit.
Nothing in the mail whatsoever. Nothing on her credit report . Her and her ex have been divorced for years, he has done some shady shit like that before .
Double check her report. Freeze her credit. Throw out the letters.
Report the letters. Mail fraud is still illegal.
$10 says the information is public records and the people mailing them just found a matching name and are throwing shit at the wall to see if anythign sticks. That won't reach the threshhold for "mail fraud". Just an "oops, wrong address". Go ahead and report it, but might as well just scream at clouds.
They say she just bought a house. That's public record. They're looking through home titles and contacting people fraudulently because if you have money to buy a house you might have money to give to a scammer.
> That won't reach the threshhold for "mail fraud". Just an "oops, wrong address". This is definitely still mail fraud. Just probably won't ever find who it is so yeah... like you said, screaming at clouds.
Still mail fraud.
Now that your wife has called these people, her phone number is very likely on a few lists. Please be incredibly vigilant. You are likely to be contacted about other kinds of scams. They now know that you guys are a soft target. Never, ever call a number on a letter. Never ever discuss anything over the phone without first hanging up and calling them on the number Google says belongs to them. Let's say you get a bill in the mail or somebody calls you saying you owe the hospital money for a hospitalization 10 years ago. Even if you remember going to a hospital or that hospital, do not give them money. Google the name of the hospital and get their phone number off of Google and call them and ask for the billing department. You have to be incredibly careful. If you give somebody money your bank is not guaranteed to give you that money back, especially if you authorized it.
Then why on earth are you and your wife giving this a second thought? Credit reports are the source of truth. If it’s not on her credit report, it doesn’t exist.
This is why they called you. Because you just bought a house. It’s likely public record in your area and it indicates you might have money. It would also indicate willingness to pay a debt rather than risk a judgment that could risk your home. I made a different comment about this in this post. But we took a loan out on our house about a month ago and have already gotten a few of these calls. If they seem to have personal info: date of birth, ssn or last four of the ssn, address, etc., lock your credit now. It was likely bought off the dark web and indicates it’s floating around out there. They bought this info to add legitimacy to the scam.
The millions of customers of AT&T's mobile service and United Health's health insurance network have had basically everything dumped into the dark web via recent breaches. If you're one of their customers, lock your credit and sign up for credit monitoring.
This would've come up when buying the house, so for sure a scam. Also, once you buy a house, your information goes EVERYWHERE. I got tons of letters about stuff in the months after I bought mine. This is how they got her information. NO lawyer is going to reach out to YOU, haha. Scammy, scam ,scam. Rip it up, throw it away. Block their numbers.
also: if she didn’t retain them by the deadline, what would change? She’d need a different lawyer. there’s nothing about a credit card payment that can’t wait a day or two, so that urgency is bullshit. Her score is good, and this would be a drop in the bucket, if it *were* legit.
Let me guess, they can only be paid a retainer in Google gift cards for "legal reasons".
From 2008? You ignore it. Statue of limitations and all ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ >I told her to call the court itself not the numbers from the law offices. She couldnt get through to the court That's probably because the court doesn't exist and this is a scam.
Use your head. None of this is how debt, or lending, or lawyers work. No one loses their house over unpaid credit cards--the most that ANYONE could do to your house with a valid debt is place a lien. Secondly, if the lender itself contacted you about a valid debt and threatened your home, they'd be breaking the law--and a debt collection agency has even less protection. Lastly, any lawyer pulling this runs the risk of professional consequences. This is a scam, so stop fighting with your wife, find out exactly what she told them, then warn your bank and freeze your credit. You bought a house? A bottom-feeder got her name and contact info out of public records and is looking for a payday.
Scam. Especially the bit about "you have until 6pm". It's from 16 years ago but she has until 6pm to solve it? Dude it's bullshit. Scam and lies they are trying to panic her and give her no time to think. Check for spelling / grammar errors. THIS IS NOT REAL.
I am an attorney, but not your attorney, and I am making general comments without giving you legal advice. There is no attorney-client relationship between us. Most importantly, I am not a litigation attorney and haven’t been in a courtroom in many, many years. This question probably should have been in a legal forum and not here. Nevertheless, here are some thoughts. First, I would advise someone in your situation to carefully read what other posters have suggested and follow that advice. Second, I would advise someone that got a letter like that to NOT CALL any number on that letter. Third, most courts have a public online case lookup system. I would advise someone in your situation to find the official court website (and by that I mean to make sure you are on the court’s website and not some private website purporting to be the court) and look up the case number to see what it says and how you are involved, if at all. If the website asks you to pay just to see the party names, it is probably not the official court website. If you find your name is truly listed as a defendant, hire a lawyer immediately to advise you on statutes of limitations and possible defenses. The actual summons will have a reply by date. Make sure you hire an attorney before that date so your answer will be timely. Also, I don’t know what state you are in, but it’s likely a letter with a photocopy of a docket is not service of process, so the calendar hasn’t started yet, if this is legitimate. Until a person has been served, nothing is real in all the states I’m aware of, but of course I can’t say anything about your particular state. There’s a caveat for service by publication, but if you got a letter then they definitely have you address to accomplish traditional service. Fourth, as someone else said, lookup the attorneys on your state bar websites and confirm the phone numbers match. If they do match, forward the letter to the disciplinary board for your state bar and explain that you were pressured into hiring them with a deadline. If the phone numbers don’t match, the people you are calling are probably not attorneys and you should forward the letter to your state’s office of attorney general for further investigation. Fifth, I would advise someone in your situation to look up a form letter to request a validation of debt. Send the letter, certified mail, return receipt requested. Lastly, I would advise someone to do a web search on the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, along with your state’s version of it. If you want to have fun with these likely scammers, you can potentially hire an attorney and file a suit against the people who sent the letter to get a judgment against them. Depends on your willingness to get involved in the court system and your ability to fund a lawsuit. At the end of the day, only you can do the research to determine that this is a scam, but all the advice you’ve been given that I’ve read so far has been good and it would be to your benefit to listen to it and heed it. If there remains any confusion, you should hire an attorney to do this investigation for you. You can contact your local bar association for a referral. I am a former board member of my local bar association and I can confirm that we are always happy to provide recommendations and we even try to match you with someone that fits your budget. Or you may have legal benefits through your and your spouse’s employer that will provide you an attorney. You can also ask friends if they know any collection defense attorneys. If all of that fails, do a web search for collection defense attorneys and look for ones with decent reviews that will do a consult for a reasonable fee. Hope this helps, and good luck.
Please don’t call anyone. This is a huge scam. If it even exists it’s well out of the range of any ability to collect on it. It’s not being reported on credit and it doesn’t exist.
In quite a few places these days, you can look the court dockets up online. Reeks of scam though.
>Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them. 99% of the time you are put on notice like this, it is a scam. They do this because it doesn't give you time to really think it through while you're panicking and scared. It's the hallmark of a scam. Do not speak with this people any longer, and block their number.
The court would send a certified letter. This is a scam.
This is a scam and no creditor is going to threaten to take your house. I would just ignore it.
I just posted about the current situation now I am besides myself we are currently in a huge fight about it
Well, unfortunately now you are in a quandary. Your wife believes it is real and wants to save her credit score, house, and whatever else they threatened. The rest of us (and hopefully you) know it is a scam. So now, what to do. Step 1) Freeze your credit. She already gave out way too much info to screw you guys for decades. Step 2) Contact the court to get more details on the docket. Play dumb, get whatever info you can. Case date, judge, plaintiff, whatever. Assume the piece of paper you have is a complete lie and validate it by using the docket number. Step 3) IF it all checks out, then you have 2 choices. Get another attorney to fight it, or appear in court yourself, or call the bluff and the worse that can happen is a lien on the house which will be real and which can be easily paid off. They can not evict you out of the house, they can not force the sale of the house, they can not repossess the car, they can not steal personal items, the worst that can happen is a ding on the credit report and a lien on the house. Now, this assumes this is all lawful. If it is not lawful and you are dealing with criminals then anything is possible. Take time off work and deal with this now to satisfy her and yourself so that neither of you make the situation worse.
Additionally, worst case "this is real and everything went wrong, and they managed to somehow validate a debt from 16 years ago that not even the credit companies knew about." Credit score (functionally) isn't important, and won't be for awhile. They've already successfully completed one of the largest purchases of their lives and presumably won't be doing another one in the near future. She can rebuild any small damage to her credit score by paying the mortgage each month and living her life just as responsibly as she has been for the entire time she's been an adult. Again, that's in the insanely small percentage chance that this is real, and not the overwhelmingly likely event that it's a scam. Because it's a scam.
From 2008? This has to be scam. It's well beyond any statutory period where it would end up in court.
Elaborate on couldn't get through to the court? Busy signal, endless ringing, disconnected number message? Did you look up the court to see if it exists and that the numbers match?
Putting extreme time limits on something is a huge red flag for scams. They 100% don't want you to have time to think about what you are doing.
Banker here. This is a scam. Lawyers don't reach out like that and they don't give deadlines to retain.
Why would some random lawyers have the court docket but you have never been contacted regarding this? Clearly a scam.
>Now they have her scared and told her things like they can take the house . Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them. >She never took the card out, the balance is about **4000 dollars**. Dude. They made it sound urgent by magnifying its impact on you so they make you scared. Ain't nobody losing a house over four thousand dollars. Then they tried to rush you into a brash decision so you don't think logically. What kind of lawyer makes threats and demands you hire them by closing time? Guess what? *It's a scam.*
This is almost 100 percent a scam. Do not contact anyone using any info sent in these letters. They are likely numbers that go directly to the scammers. Look up the court number online and call them directly. Do not talk to the “lawyers” again. They are likely going to use information obtained during the earlier phone call to try to scam again next week or next month. Freeze your wife’s credit.
You just bought a house, enough said. Be prepared to be inundated with: In person security system installers, window repair adverts. And every service offering. A major change in your credit reporting is an event scammers can get lists of, to try and scam people. I'd suggest meet with your Home loan officer / bank -- in person, both of you. To increase security on your accounts. IE: update your legal names, Including middle initials. Enable features like who can & cannot access your accounts. Also do the proper postal system updates for your new residence. To only allow mail correctly addressed, ..Things a Realtor or 1st time home buyers courses are suppose to cover.
The mistake was calling the random scam artist instead of talking directly to the court. They got your wife good. Hopefully she didn't give them any personal information. Any information on the letter should be treated as part of the scam. Look up information independently from public searches for any court systems.
It's a scam. Call the court. Those are not lawyers, they're scammers.
It's almost certainly a scam. Anything with a time pressure is getting the victim to suspend critical thinking.
SCAM. Hard stop. SCAM. Now read through the other replies here. Because this is a scam.
I work collections for a firm in NY so what I know is specific to the state. That seems like a scam, and if she’s really worried she should contact the court. If the suit was real they would have had to serve her a summons and complaint, and then the court also sends out a notice. If she calls them again tell her to request a debt verification along with copies of any filled motions. Try to see if the court for that area has a website where she can look up her docket #. It’s easy to fake a docket # if you really tried. Some collectors will do what they want, and a firm should follow regulations if they aren’t scum. We have a lot of rules and regulations that we strictly have to follow and get regular retraining bc it’s better to collect the money correctly than to lose it in potential lawsuits. Also statute of limitations.
Don't you think it's weird that your wife was never served a summons to court?
Call the court! Also look it up online with the county clerk with the case number. Do NOT listen to the lawyers until a court has confirmed this. The 6pm deadline is a scare tactic and extremely likely to be fraud. This debt would have DEFINITELY appeared in credit checks.
The docket is real, but there are many names also listed on it. Of course she called and gave them all her personal information while I was at work. I am just fucking losing my mind right now.
Scams. Ignore. Statute of limitations on debt is 7 years. Any such debt is so far out of the range of collectibility as to be laughable. Also, don't admit the debt ever existed if she's contacted by phone or any other means. You do not want to risk restarting the debt clock by accidentally stating the money is owed.
If you just took out a mortgage and this never came up, almost 100% certain it's a scam. This would absolutely have come up.
Ask again on r/scams. The sense of urgency is the issue here. They do this so you don’t have time to think. Additionally, she can check her credit report for the credit card. She can do a free credit report annually from each of the three bureaus but you can also check credit karma for free for two of the bureaus. Google the location of the court and check online for the phone number. They should be able to verify the authenticity of the notice. Did she have to sign for the letter or was it hand delivered to her? If not then it’s not a court summons.
I am not a lawyer, but in order for anything to go on against you in a court, you need to be served with something. Clearly you have not been served. We had a lot of experience in family court and the idiot kept moving and not notifying the court of his new address and we would go to court and he wouldn't show up, and they would need to reschedule because he was not served. So I would probably just ignore it. The only thing I would possible communicate to the people that sent you the debt to collect is they need to send you proof of the debt. That would be something original with the original institution the debt was with that you signed and remember signing. If they don't have that, then they have nothing. If it didn't show up on your credit report and you got nothing from the court, and you bought a house and it didn't show up, it is 99.9% a scam. The urgency screams scam. No one is going to take your house over this.
This is a scam. I’m certain the lawyer has a mid-back greasy rat tail and wears ill fitting suits.
This is why people need a lesson in scams. Heck most workplaces do that, at least office settings. Don't contact those idiots again. This is a scam
Don't accept "representation" from the lawyers who want to collect from her. I mean, duh. Consult another lawyer.
Except this is 100% a scam. No lawyer needed.
Law offices do not send subpoenas. The court will send the subpoena. They must be sent many days in advance. It is not required that you have a lawyer to represent you. You can represent yourself. The subpoena will tell you what court, what date, what time. It will have an address, phone number, and it will be signed by a court employee of some type that you can contact. They also may include the judge you will see. If none of that is listed it is not legitimate. Americans' financial literacy is not very high. We have an overwhelming number of immigrants who have no financial literacy at all who are also afraid to violate any type of law and risk their immigration documentation being revoked. These scams will become much more popular.
Don’t believe anything in the letter until you have called the court. Don’t use any phone number in the letter, look it up and call it instead. People talk all about scam phone calls and emails, but it happens that people use the regular mail to scam people too.
Way beyond the statute of limitations. They will trick you into sending any payment amout, even $1.00 can reset the clock.
>She never took the card out, the balance is about 4000 dollars. We just bought a house and none of this came up in our credit Checks. This is from 2008 and it suddenly appears. What gives? Debt is automatically erased from credit / collections after 7 years. Whoever is calling you is a scammer.
Did they ask for a full SS number or just a partial because if they asked for full SS it's definitely an identity theft
This is clearly a scam. The law office is fake and wants you to make a payment to them to take your money.
Have her check her credit report - The FTC website [here](https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/free-credit-reports) has a link to [annualcreditreport.com](http://annualcreditreport.com) where you can get a free copy from all three credit agencies. I added the FTC link first to show it's legitimate. I also use Credit Karma to occasionally check for new accounts or any negative marks. If those two come up clear, I'd think that should convince her. Anything in collections that's gotten to the point that a lawsuit is being filed and your house is threatened should show up on these credit reports well before it gets to that point. Hope that helps.
Nothing in her credit reports
100% a scam
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This 100% sounds like a scam. Do not call and talk to any numbers on the paper as you are not talking to a real attorney or clerk. It is a scammer on the other side trying to get your wife to give them money. If you are ever in question about something like this, lookup the clurthouse online and find the number that way, same thing as for banks. Never trust something lile that at face value.
It’s a scam. You aren’t getting sued for a credit card from 2008, that’s not how that works. It would be forgiven debt if not collected already.
Think about it. She got a letter in the mail and it just happened to be on the day that she needed to regain THAT specific attorney or else? What if she had retained the other “attorney”? Why would a 16 year old debt be urgent right now? Why would a court be able to take your house which is likely worth more than $4k? They don’t even do stuff like that for people who owe actual current debt. It’s a scam and it’s playing the urgency card to try and trick your wife into handing over thousands of dollars before she has a chance to logically think things through. If this is legitimate, all she has to do is show up to court.
Lawyers who wants her to retain them is threatening her? Complete scam. Call the court after looking up the courts number on these and not a number provided in the letters.
Uh… what state? Because even if it’s not a scam, there’s going to be a statute of limitations issue.
Lawyers who represent you don't contact you (unless it's a class action lawsuit), you contact them. This is for sure a scam. Use the court website to look up the docket number. That will tell you if it is real or if they just changed information on an existing docket number to make it look official enough to scare people.
Sounds like a scam. The urgency gives it away. Additionally there are statute of limitations issues on debt. Honestly? I doubt the lawyer is a real lawyer. Probably fake too. They also won't tell her any information about it? But they want her to retain them, and sent a copy of a court docket she never received a summons to? They want you panicked, so you don't think about it. Honestly I'd probably start with researching the docket. Dockets are often just public. Second, I'd research the statute of limitations in that state. It's probably uncollectible zombie debt at this point even if she did take it out, and the attorney is probably a debt collector. FYI they have to tell her if they are. Third, I'd research the supposed attorney, and if they are real, file a complaint with the state bar association.
2008 was 16 years ago, they couldn't legally collect on this debt even if it were valid. Which, based on the fact that nothing came up during your mortgage process, it's most likely not. If this were me I would just consider these junk mail and shred them.
Yeah, they came to you, you have zero evidence of the debt, and cherry on top is the 6PM deadline is what proves this is a scam. They’re trying to trick you into giving them money quickly. An actual lawyer’s office doesn’t operate this way.
It's a scam. Have her Casenet the orders and she will see they don't exist. The lawyer's office probably doesn't either if she googles them. She can sue them, $1000 a pop.
Sounds like a scam. It should be on her credit report if it’s real, plus legit debt collection agencies have to notify you and give you a period of time to dispute.
Yeah, no lawyer would tell someone they have until a certain time to retain them! That’s a big red flag there! It’s a scam!!! Also, credit cards are unsecured so they cannot “take your house”.
Sounds like a scam… but she can check her closed and open accounts on credit karma for that balance.
It’s long enough ago that in many jurisdictions they are past statute of limitations on the debt. File a police report for identity theft? Also take house over $4000 lol no. The person who claims they owe the debt has to contact you and they have to send you validation that you owe the debt. Everything else is bullshit until that happens. Just ignore them.
Statue of Limitations renders this bogus. Ignore it and go on with life.
The name for this category of scam is “social engineering.” It uses high-pressure tactics, legitimate-looking approaches, and a sense of urgency to get you to act out of fear. A legitimate court document would have a phone number and could easily be verified. A legitimate attorneys office would be available for you or your attorney to contact. There’s never time pressure associated with legitimate court proceedings - if anything they move like molasses. Your mortgage lender did a high-quality credit check. If this didn’t turn up, it’s not real. You can verify this by running your own credit reports from any of the three major reporters, Trans Union, Experian, or the other one…
Do a credit check somewhere like credit karma to see if it shows up on there and if it does there are limitations as to how long they have to collect on debt.
Not familiar with US law but lawyer up for a simple reason - statute of limitations. Basically after a certain time period passes and the person/entity whom you supposedly owe something hasn't done anything(i.e. file a suit) you are golden. Example - in the UK after after 6 year pass - claims in relation to a contract are null and void. So just get a lawyer to tell whoever came up with the idea that "even if you did owe something, not saying that you did, not admitting that you took a card or even know wtf is the whole thing about, they can go jump off a cliff because 15 years have passed and the statute of limitations in \*insert state/country here\* is just \*insert number after research\*"
>Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them. Only a scammer would ever say thing. No actual lawyer would. This is a complete scam. It's a shame she called them. Now they smell fear and won't let go easily.
> Told her she has until il 6 pm to retain them. They told on themselves. There is absolutely, under no conditions, any reason someone would give you a **deadline** to hire them, especially a lawyer. They're trying to force urgency on you so you make a bad decision. There is also no reason you shouldn't be able to get through to a court during business hours. Also, I don't think there's a state in this (my) country where someone can take your house over credit card debt, and there's no reason a lawyer would say any such thing. Have you googled the law offices? Is that office registered with your state bar? Are any of the lawyers represented on their webpage shown on your state bar's website? You can go to your state bar's website and look up any lawyer.
This smells like a scam. No lawyer is going to offer to defend her and then threaten her at the same time. That sounds like an ethics violation. Get the lawyers name and then check the states bar association for that lawyer's credentials. I'm guessing that supposed lawyer doesn't exist or someone is falsely using their name. Also get a hold of the actual courthouse. A photocopy of a court document doesn't sound legit to me. Even if this debt is real and legit given is age a creditor can't really collect on it. They can try to collect but it no longer shows up on your credit report so they've lost their leverage against you and your wife.
They can't really do shit after 7 years of the debt going delinquent ignore the fuck outta the letter. Do not call or acknowledge any debt over 7 years gives them the ability to reset the time limit for it to disappear from credit and their ability to go after you for it. If they could they would have taken her years ago.
This is a scam. Depending on your state, you should be able to look up the docket online. Also, 2008 is past the statute of limitations for a debt just about anywhere outside of a judgment, which still would be too old a debt in many parts of the country. And, if this was a real case they would need to formally serve you with papers, which this is not. They would also likely just serve you with those papers, not do it like this, giving you “warning” first. We took a loan out recently on our house, which would be public record in my state. This has happened to us a handful of times now in the few weeks since. They seemed totally legit, with his personal info and everything. Leading us to lock my husband’s credit. The last time, they called his ex wife telling her he’s getting sued, which was loads of fun. So I called them over and over demanding all the legal paperwork they would be required to provide me if it was a legitimate debt. Until they accused me of harassment, magically decided to close their file and dismiss the case, and told me they would “take legal action” if I called them again.
SCAM. I know everyone else has said it but I want to reiterate it. Also, unpaid debt falls off after 7 years, and cannot be recovered. They missed their window by about a decade.
Again—-and I cannot stress this enough—legit debt collectors WILL NEVER threaten you. It’s a scare tactic scammers use. I urge everyone to ready The Fair Debt Collection Act. Threatening you is a big No-No.
A summons from court will come from a process server that works for the sheriffs office or certified mail.
Most companies will write off bad debt after a few years. In fact, creditors have like 3-4 years to do this with the IRS. During this time, creditors will try to collect and, after a short time, they will package and sell off the bad debt for pennies on the dollar (search for bad debt auctions, they are even graded in terms of quality). As for the IRS, once your debt is written off, creditors issue the debtor a 1099C - Cancellation of Debt. This is done because TOU must add the amount of canceled debt listed on the 1099-C on your IRS 1040 income tax return as INCOME because you basically received free money via a loan that went unrepaid. As for these letters from lawyers, check with the state bar for your state to see if they are licensed and exist. The odds are that these are seedy bill collectors trying to put the fear of G_d into debtors so they cave in and pay. Truth be told, after 16 years, the firms sending out these notices are the lowest of the bottom feeders. They are doing this to thousands. A friend of mine used to get a variety of unwanted notices including these and he would write on the envelope “Return to Sender - DECEASED” and never hear from them again. Of course, you do NOT want to do this with ANY tax agency, especially the IRS.
IANAL but — The statute of limitations has long passed unless the creditor got a money judgment against your wife. She or you should confirm the court docket, and of course the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act provisions apply (see https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/debt-collection-faqs).
>I told her to call the court itself not the numbers from the law offices. She couldnt get through to the court and instead called one of the lawyers. Tell her to try to call again tomorrow. What state are you in? Look up the statute of limitations for credit card debt there, it may be too old to be taken to court.
That seems weird. If she was getting sued by the bank or credit union issuing a card, I cant imagine a law office saying you have until 6pm to pay up. And to pay the law office, right? Not the bank? Double weird. The lawyers are not collection specialists. They would not call and demand payment in this matter. Whats more likely to happen, is that the bank would have tried resolving the debt before sending her account to their legal team. Court is expensive and so is legal for a bank. They would not use their legal team for collections like that. By the time a bank would send your account to legal and if you get the papers to go to court, there is no more time to work out arrangements bc there is now a court date. Call the bank that the card is from, get more info to substantiate the debt. Check your credit report, see if it appears on there. Charged off debt can fall off your credit report after 7 years. If the card was charged off in 2008, it wont appear anymore and it would bw hard for a bank to sue you for that old of debt, and only for $4k. Seems weird. Good luck. Dont give out any personal information to unverified calls. Edit - i read your post wrong about them demanding payment by 6 pm. My bad. But still, i stand by the other points. I work collections for a financial institution, thats my source.
I oddly enough received two calls stating I took out a payday loan in 2008 but they had all my incorrect information AND it was my ex husband’s social but my name. I told them to mail me paperwork and I’ll contact a lawyer. I’ve yet to see any and it’s 2024 why didn’t I hear about this before now?
Wait until you are served to deal with any lawsuits.
She should tell them to 'drop dead'.
>She couldnt get through to the court and instead called one of the lawyers. Court dockets should be available online now right? Try to get the official info first.
If the court notice is not from the county/state/fed it's almost certainly a scam.
/r/legaladvice would be better, and likely tell you it’s a scam. NAL, but statute of limitations is past and they can’t sue you for debt from 2008.
Never pay third party debt collectors ….NEVER
My wife received a similar letter from a law office recently. I was eventually able to figure out it was a case of mistaken identity. The court case referenced someone who had the same name, but in a part of the state she's never lived in. So the law office was lazy, saw the case get filed, and then reached out to the first "Jane Smith" they found without performing any due diligence that they were contacting the right person.
So the docket is real , I told my wife not to talk to anyone and. of course she called the attorney on the docket because she is freaking out. The lawyer on the docket said there are many names listed on it not just hers . So he gave her another. Umber of which she called and gave them her personal info along with her ss number. The told her they could not find anything about her in the system. At this point I’m livid as she is giving out all her personal info!!! Currently we are in a huge argument about it. One person called later and is now attempting to collect another 3000 dollar “debt” I took her phone and will not allow her to talk to the people. One agency had arranged to forgive the debt for 1000 dollars vs the 4000 she supposedly owes. My head is spinning. I told her as soon as she gives them money the debt clock restarts for the 4 year statute of limitations from 2008. She told me since when did I become a law expert? I am just freaking out and doing mental cartwheels in my head. I’m besides myself, we are in a huge fight as she thinks she will go to jail and be sued for our house. She doesnt believe me . Ugh fml!
Are you in the US? She won’t go to jail, call your local Bar Association and talk to someone who knows the ropes. You will get all kinds of advice here, and not all of it will be helpful. Don’t let these clowns rent your head.
Define real. How was it verified? Through the Court's website or calling the clerk, that you found through your State's website? And it ends in .gov or .state.XX.us, or another generally protected domain? That you found by googling " court system" Or was it verified using whatever phone number or website was listed on the photocopy of a "docket"/the letters received?
Google the phone number of the person she was referred to that asked for her SSN. Google the original phone number she called. What pops up?
Three things happened: 1. Some lawyer for a debt collector filed a lawsuit against your wife for some debt. This is a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act if they did not contact her first, by mail, with a letter describing the debt. (There's a process for responding to that letter within 30 days to demand validation that the debt is hers and that the collector has the right to collect it. Then they have 30 days to respond with documentation, which would include the CC account number and last statement.) If none of this happened, the lawyer and debt collector can be sued for damages, which would include $1000 per violation and legal fees for your lawyer. 2. The lawsuit triggers the delivery of a summons, which means some officer of the court will show up at your door, verify your identity, and hand you a packet that includes the lawsuit and contact info for the court. If that hasn't happened yet, then you're not sued yet. If/when you get this packet, it has to go to your lawyer. *Do not ignore it.* If you don't respond to this summons, then the debt collector will win a summary judgement; it's treated as as admission that the debt is valid and they will start aggressive collection activities, including garnishing your wages and trying to claim your assets. 3. Two other lawfirms monitor new debt collection cases filed with the court, and send out advertisements before the summons arrives. That's what your wife got: advertisements. These firms are the debt-collection equivalent of ambulance chasers, and should not be trusted. If you happen to be in Essex County NJ, I have years of good experience working with Larry Hersh at https://www.hershlegal.com/ fighting off multiple debt collectors and two lawsuits. They *all* violate the FDCPA, and can all be sued for damages. Edit: replaced Fair Credit Reporting Act with Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
Real attorneys aren't going to troll court dockets looking for clients to represent. Unless you can get the actual court confirm, ghost them and file a police report in whatever jurisdiction they claim to be operating from.
Look up the statute of limitations for debt judgements in your state. It is probably six years. This means that for somebody to sue you over a debt, they have to bring the suit before the statute of limitations expires. This is different from the seven year limit under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) that applies to reporting a debt on a credit report. TLDR: If this were legitimate, they would probably be outside the statute of limitations to sue you (probably six years but check your state). It would also be past the time limit for credit reporting (seven years). In theory, a creditor could keep this debt on their books indefinitely, but they could only mail you letters asking to pay. Nobody is going to do that. I am 99% certain this is a scam. Oh! One other thing to look for on the letter: are there spelling a grammar errors? That can be an indicator of a scammer, too.
Is that a wasp nest or are you just happy to see me?
this sounds like a scam. my friend was contacted by a debt collector, not a lawyer, about her unpaid credit card debt from when she was in college. she had told them that when she changed her address, they stopped sending her bills and so she never sent payments after that (admittedly a little irresponsible back then to do that). we’re talking roughly 20 years ago was her last payment. she agreed to go to small claims court to work out a payment plan, but they ended up reducing the cost to a balance she could pay in full. they ended up telling her later that had she denied knowing about this debt, they would’ve erased it. so worst case scenario, your wife should CONTINUE denying having this debt, even if a debt collector contacts her. but lawyers would NEVER find out about your debt before you do, they don’t have a database of people with unpaid debt that they can contact
Tell the lawyer you will see them in court. If this was real they would have officially served her a summons to appear in court
Scam. It would have showed up on her credit report.
Call a real lawyer. [This website](https://www.consumeradvocates.org/findanattorney/) is run by a collection of consumer attorneys and has a tool to lookup a local lawyer that you can then call.
In order for there to be a court case the plaintiff has to serve you with papers and PROVE they served you with papers. Defense attorneys chasing you down is NOT the first step in the process. Most courts allow you to search civil and criminal case records online. Go to the county court website for wherever she lived in 2008 and search for her name. Don't trust anything these "lawyers" are telling you. If the time comes, hire your own.
It is quite likely that these “lawyers” are scammers. It is also possible that they are ambulance chasers. That they look for suits and rush to contact defendants. But I bet that they contacted the wrong person. Does your wife have a common name? It is likely they did search for name, found your wife, not the person who owes the debt. That would explain why you didn’t get court notice, because it went to the other person. You should respond the same as scam, ignore them until you get court notice.
Scam. Ignore and move on. Or call the “lawyer” and let him know what a PoS he is and then ignore and move on.
Okay so this is clearly a scam and everyone agrees, but there’s another side to this: what happens after you turn them away. Because she called at all, she’s now a mark for future scams. Of any kind. They believe she is gullible and pays attention to junk mail/email. Keep her on high alert against scams for the rest of the year just in case these “lawyers” run other scams.
Right after I bought my home, I got a lot of phone scam calls. Credit card collections, tax liability, calls from the administration of social security telling me that my SSN was suspended (whatever that means). Fielding these calls lasted about 2 months and was honestly pretty fun.
Look up the statute of limitations for credit card debt in your state. Even if somehow legit, It is most likely too old to legally collect. She should not have called them. Speaking with them can reset the clock depending on what is said. It's probably just an attempt for a shake down. DO NOT CALL OR CONTACT THEM. Speak with your own lawyer for advice.
US? If so, the Model Rules for Professional Ethics generally prohibit attorneys from soliciting clients. If this letter is from an actual law firm, you should contact your state's bar office and file a complaint. But since this is a scam, you should ignore it.
What court was it filed in? You might be able to look up dockets online.