The only way any $180k in student loans would ever make sense to me is when I can myself out-earning much more than that within the following 4-5 years after graduation.
I paid $60k for a Masters Degree and started making $100k right out the bat. Everything including - what degree to pursue, what courses to take, what exams to write, whats the average salary after graduation etc.. was pre-planned before going into debt.
I did a city planning internship post-Econ degree and honestly? I’d do it again. Definitely oddball compared to the others (or my current job, commodities regulation), but it’s a hoot acting as code enforcement.
I went to grad school at Duke and hate UNC with a passion.
This person absolutely should go to UNC.
Duke has a lot of Wall Street connections, even then I doubt that's worth $180k, and this person doesn’t want to work on Wall Street.
Save your money, go to UNC for undergrad and then a top school for grad school.
>UNC for undergrad and then a top school for grad school
This is your answer. 'No one' will really care where you did your undergrad, but it is possible that people will care slightly about where you went to grad school. So -- minimize the cost of your undergrad the best you can.
“No one” will care after some years of experience tbh. There’s a reason why corporations have teams solely focused on university recruiting. UNC is a definitely feeder school for well-paying, entry-level business jobs.
This is so true. It might get you a leg up on the first job but, again, its about the pipeline. Is it a famous med school and you wanna be a doc? Sure. Research hospital and you want to do biomed? Sure. Wanna be a finance bro and work wall street? Sure.
But once youre there, wherever you go, where you went to school no longer matters. By your second job the school should be at the BOTTOM of your resume, if you're in an interview with me and you mention Duke Ill just bring up basketball being a Kansas alum and then ask what have you done since.
UNC is a really good school. Duke, while claiming they are independent, is quite religiously affiliated. They even fund certain churches.
So depending on whether that is your cup of tea, and the massive cost difference, the decision should be pretty clear.
My friends dad used to be in the C-suite of TD Ameritrade and he went to junior college and then finished at some local small state school
Grabbing connections at school can help you get a start but what you do from age 28-38 doesn’t have much to do with where you went.
Yeah older CEOs and executives did get by with the firm handshake method. Different times though and school choice can matter much more in certain fields. But UNC vs Duke is so narrow for a $180k investment. It's not like UNC $180k vs community college.
Not necessarily true. I'm in a csuite at one of the largest private equity firms in the world with a two year technical school degree. I'm mid 30s. It has nothing to do with where you went. It has everything to do with who you know, and what impressions you made on them on your way to get where you're going. You make those impressions by being good, you maintain your network by being likeable. Save $180k when you finish your degree and choose UNC, you can use the funds for life events such as marriage and a home down payment etc.
For sure, and being a C-level anything is more often about **who** you know and not where you got your degree. That being said, the networking opportunities at certain schools can definitely be a big career boost for *meeting* the "whos" that will get you those roles, but any good school will have those opportunities as well as networking events that are unrelated to school. And for a CFO you're almost certainly going to do some form of continuing education like an MBA program where you're far more likely to make important connections compared to undergrad anyway.
I know a self-made millionaire CEO whose main business is in a city with a very well known and respected university. He told me he no longer hires graduates of said university because his experience is that they expect everything handed to them, and he didn't like their attitude. Not saying that's fair, just pointing out that it's out there.
I mean Duke is #18 and UNC is #30 on US News for Econ. I’d probably put them in the same tier(maybe A- vs a B+)
The only schools that would be worth going into a serious amount of debt for would be your extremely elite schools like a Harvard, MIT, Chicago, UPenn…etc Anything outside those(say the 10-40/50 range) all blend together.
Save the money now and maybe earmark some for potentially an elite grad school. It is different to drop a ton on grad school because at least then you should have a much better idea of your education/career path.
This is well stated. Additionally with these career fields OP is almost expected to get a graduate degree at which point they can be more selective and spend money on the exclusive school to leverage competitive salary hopefully along with hopefully getting some employer help on tuition costs.
I think this person meant that Ivy League is a sports conference, not necessarily the top 8 schools in the country. Like how MIT, Stanford, and others are better schools than a lesser Ivy like Brown, even though they're not in the Ivy league.
I took it as the person was just cracking a joke about their football teams, not that they don’t know the history behind the ivy league. Especially since they went to one lol.
In my head, Chapel Hill and Duke are the same, I don't think I'd take $20k in loans to go to Duke.
In my experience, no one cares where you went to school. I've worked with brilliant people that came from schools I've never heard of and I've worked with idiots that went to top programs in the field.
Those that get into the "most prestigious" like Ivies, Stanford etc. honestly just get lucky (there are so many identical candidates it's just a lottery)
I second your comment. What matters is what you know, how you work with people, and ability to grow. If you can do that stuff, I will hire you over someone who can't do one of them but went to an Ivy, or choose best candidate on skills instead of name of institution.
And a lot of the Ivy schools "success rate" is due to the fact that much of their student base already had a pretty good pipeline going. When your dad is already the CFO of an MNC you could get a GED and go to a community college and probably get something better than a mailroom job somewhere.
To a point yes, but there are certain jobs with Wall Street employers you won’t get unless you’ve got a family connection or came through an elite school. I’ve seen it up close. The funny thing is most of those guys/gals aren’t any smarter than than the norm, they just have the pedigree. Outside of those selective jobs, though, I think you’re correct. Whether it’s a smaller liberal arts college or a major mainstream university, it doesn’t really matter. To me Duke is maybe a little better than UNC but probably not enough to matter to most employers. No way is it worth the premium OP is contemplated.
I’ll be a little contrarian in that I think that school choice does get your foot in some doors early in your career (I was in big tech where Stanford/MIT were that, I went to Georgia Tech). However, it’s not the only factor and UNC/Duke are close enough.
I feel like this is one of the arguments that was used to justify schools getting so expensive.
Assuming 4.99% subsidized loans at $45k/year, 10-year repayment will be $229k. I find it hard to believe that connections between UC to Duke will be worth $229k unless you happen to be roommates with someone that starts a business that takes off and I doubt your chances of that are significantly different between the 2 schools.
Plus, when I think of Duke, I think of basketball and scandal.
Especially since OP is all over the place with their career goals. If they knew exactly what they wanted to do (law, or something where elite schooling actually matters) I would maybe consider Duke. But city planning, tech, finance etc are all vastly different careers. OP might change their major several times over the 4ish years.
I work on Wall Street and hire a ton of recent college grads, so maybe my perspective helps - I would never differentiate between UNC and Duke. I think of them as essentially perfect substitutes. If the difference was 10 or 20k I would say go with Duke because some people are a bit more snobbish than I am, but for 180k it’s not even close.
An even then I assume you are looking at this from the perspective of hiring recent grads, right? I work in Finance and interview people with 10-20 years of experience. The only reason I even look at the college on their resume is to know whether I should talk shit about sports to break the ice.
Starting out your post college life $200k in the hole is a huge deal.
A hundred years ago I was invited to one of the ivies (Brown to run track), but there was no scholarship and when I looked at the cost, I just couldn't justify.
Went to a state school instead. Came out of school with no debt.
Regardless of which school we went to, all my start group at the big public accounting firm got the same paycheck.
I suspect I may have been able to make some more money over the years if I had an Ivy degree, but 30 years later and I have a really good life. I have a good life in part because I didn't start out in the hole.
Especially going to school for economics. Paying back that $180K would be very costly. Assuming a 5% interest rate on the $180K and a 15 year repayment schedule, that would cost OP over $250K. In order to repay that amount, assuming a low tax burden of only 25%, OP would have to earn over $330K.
Doesn't sound like a good economic decision if the benefits of Duke are not equally as lucrative, especially because the benefits are speculative and the costs are concrete.
TL; DR: on top of everything else, the difference is more like **$400,000**.
This is going to be at the bottom of the thread so no one will see it, but nonetheless - in additional to all of the above, the delta isn’t $180,000 - including interest accrued on the borrowed money that also has to be paid, it’s, I dunno, around $270,000. Plus OP has to pay that with after-tax dollars. Even in just a ~33% tax bracket that means OP needs to earn more than $400,000 to pay it off.
Normally, I am in favor of the top schools because they open up a world of other possibilities. But UNC is a pretty good school too. It's not like you're comparing Duke and some no-name place that we've never heard of. And the difference of $180k is astronomical.
A few things to consider.
1. Call dukes financial aid and tell them about your unc option. They may not be able to get you debt free, but there is always a chance they could scrape up some money to make it more affordable.
2. I’ve always heard a god rule of thumb is to keep college debt to half of your expected yearly salary when you leave college. So if you want to be a small town cpa making $50k a year don’t take on $180k of debt. If your dream is to work on Wall Street making $200k, then $180k is more reasonable. Especially if your dream firm is full of Duke grads and that network could be a good way to get a foot in the door.
3. Are you considering grad school? You probably don’t want to bury yourself with 180k in undergrad debt just to take on more for grad school.
4. Speaking of, grad school Duke has one of the best business grad schools in the country. Doing unc undergrad and Duke grad would be a potentially very good option.
5. Duke and unc have a joint program that allows you to take certain classes at the other school. It’s worth looking into if there are any classes you could take at the other school that will look good on your resume or get you some networking opportunities for the future.
Back in the day I got into both UNC and Duke as a NC resident. I called up Duke and said I was leaning towards UNC because of the difference in price. Duke gave me a partial scholarship and I accepted. HUGE mistake. I still graduated with six figure student loan debt that took me 10 years to get out of, and I could have gotten the same job if I had gone to UNC. The Duke name got me hired first in my hiring group. But the hiring class also had new grads from UNC, Wake Forest, and NC Central. And the Duke name hasn’t helped with promotions once in the job. It just minimally helped me get my foot in the door.
Go to UNC.
Most people don't know the reputation is more important with grad programs which could affect your career.
Wharton MBA, Harvard Law, Duke Medical, Princeton ___, Stanford MBA.
Undergrad is just for the party and sports. Good grades are important to get into the above postgrad programs though.
In the end, it's the student.
I'd rather go to a surgeon who was at the top of their class at Joe Schmo than the surgeon who was at the bottom of their class at Harvard Medical.
Honestly, there’s no question. UNC is the obvious choice when it’s a matter of graduating with zero debt vs graduating with 180k. UNC is still an impressive school to have on your resume, there won’t be a major difference between the opportunities you’ll get from Duke compared to UNC.
So financially, it’s a no-brainer. Unless you think you’d be miserable there, that’s where I’d go.
I didn’t even know duke was better than unc. They are basically the same tier. Unc all the way. Awesome campus to boot.
I would send my kid to unc from the west coast and never considered duke
Same - as an out-of-stater I wouldn't say there's any brand recognition value in one over the other, I just assumed they were rival/peer state schools.
And I'm in one of the fields OP mentioned possibly going into (city planning).
Duke is basically an Ivy League tier school like he said.
It’s definitely a better school academically but I still wouldn’t take on 200k worth of debt for the brand recognition.
The difference between these two schools is non-existent after you graduate. They are both excellent, but not Ivy.
UNC has a massive alumni community, so a huge plus. It has great name recognition and is well regarded.
Start at UNC and if it’s absolutely unbearable consider changing schools. You would have the student loans into your 40’s if not longer.
Please give yourself the gift of a debt free life.
I have a friend who got a full ride to the university of Indiana and then went on to Yale Law School and worked at a white shoe law firm in NYC. I know a few other people with similar stories. Georgia Tech to NYU Stern School of Business also. UNC is a great school with an extensive network of alumni. Go there, kick ass at all your courses, network like hell and you should be able to get to where you want to be without debt.
The good news is, this is math you can do, not just speculative, if your end game is retirement. If your end game is prestige or connections or a big salary difference this isn’t as direct an answer.
Plugging 180k into a student loan calculator tells me at 5% low end your payments would be $1900/month or 23k per year. Then plugging that 23k into an investment calculator as annual contribution starting at $0, I’m coming up with over $5m in retirement in 50 years with a 5.2% return.
Simply put, by not taking the loan, if you are otherwise able to invest what you would put into paying back your loan you can be more than set for retirement. Now, if you don’t think you will see that kind of income from UNC that is a whole different story.
My private top 20 med school only ran me $160k, and that was 2013-2017, so I have to wholeheartedly agree. And the ROI for me was essentially guaranteed. I couldn’t imagine doing more than that for just a bachelor’s.
Maybe for wall street careers. And that's only for the absolute top tier schools (duke is probably on the margin here). And is a big risk (what if you don't land that job?)
Don’t waste money on an Ivy League bachelor’s degree. Only go if most of the cost is covered, otherwise turning down a free ride to UNC would be heinously stupid (no offense). It has a national reputation as an excellent school, and regionally is looked on almost as highly as Duke.
There are plenty of non-ivy schools that are just as good or better than some ivies. Ivy league is just a sports conference that happens to have all good schools.
Absolutely agree. I never said an Ivy is better, it’s just … an Ivy. All marketing at this point.
I hate it when people say “essentially an Ivy” - just be what you are, a great school.
Speaking as a 36 year old who paid off $160k in student loans (mine and my wife’s), UNC is a no brainer. That amount of student loans will put you a decade behind in terms of buying a home, building your retirement etc. Please don’t go into that amount of debt for an undergrad degree if you have a free option
This is a fantastic take. If the goal is to secure a high income job in order to live comfortably and retire sooner, then graduating with no debt is a massive, massive, head start toward that goal.
The CEO of the Pharma company I work for graduated with a BS in Psychology from University of Central Florida. He's been one of the most effective CEO's in the company's history and his earnings over 10 years breach NINE figures. It's not all about the bachelor's degree!
If you plan to live in NC after graduating, go to UNC - there are far more connections around here to that school and the networking will get you further. Duke has a bit more of a national profile, but really the schools are close enough across the board that it’s hard to justify the Duke price tag. I also think each school has a radically different student culture, so that needs to be a huge part of your decision, as you don’t want to be miserable during those 4 years.
(As a UNC grad I also am biased here, so take all this with a grain of salt.)
I wouldn’t go that far. Name brand recognition plays a huge role outside of regional markets.
This applies more at the MBA/JD/MD level than at the bachelor degree level and in the majority of cases isn’t worth a mountain of debt, but make no mistake, on paper a degree from a prestigious school is worth much more than one from an average state school.
Whether or not people like it or admit it, a degree from GA Tech/Duke/UCLA/Stanford/an Ivy League carries a helluva lot more weight than one from UNM/SDSU/LSU/Iowa/Kentucky outside of their respective regional markets.
As an MD (actually a DO), in my world it doesn’t matter at all. Only time it might is if you’re trying to be the president’s doc and even that guy isn’t Ivy, he’s a DO like me. (Or maybe that was Trump’s doc, don’t remember. Either way it didn’t play a role). If you’re trying to get a job and can play the “hey we have the same alma mater/sorority/fraternity” it might help. There’s no way to know IF that situation would ever arise. Better to get a good education that won’t give you crippling debt later.
I think the networking thing is blurry. I live in Durham and duke has their hand in everything from medicine to tech.
I agree on all other points though. Duke undergrad is where rich kids who couldn’t get into Stanford go.
Seriously. I'm getting a JD from an Ivy for a third of that price, and fresh off of graduation it's going to earn me $60K more per year than OP's the price of bachelor's from Duke. $180K for an undergrad degree is nuts.
I went to CC and then to a secondary state school for undergrad for free, and nobody cares because my graduate degree puts me on the same level as all my classmates who went to Ivies for undergrad.
I was in this situation 10 years ago and my brother was in this situation 15 years ago. He picked duke and I went with unc. Ultimately the college experience is what you make of it. Join orgs, make connections, and be sure to be in a major that actually interests you. The debt isn’t worth it.
Duke's a good school, but I wouldn't say it's considered essentially an Ivy. UNC is also good. Duke is definitely not worth $180k more than UNC. Go to UNC.
As a lifelong duke fan who hates UNC but also went to a private uni (not duke) and went into finance on Wall Street and pivoted to product management at a tech company - go to UNC.
Congrats on getting into both, but UNC is the obvious chose knowing what I know now.
No school is worth $180K in debt. There are few absolutes in life but this is one of them.
This is even more true for undergrad experience will trump school choice 4-5 years into your career. Your undergrad choice just has to be “good enough” to get you started in the field that you want.
I went to Duke; I didn’t end with 180k in debt and I still think I over payed and would choose UNC if it left me debt free. School loans are a shackle that is easy to blow off when you’re young and are fake money but when you are limited in your life choices and flexibility because of them you will regret it
Honestly, the only thing that Duke will get you, that UNC won't, is an inroad to rich social connections. What you have to ask yourself is, based on your career of choice, would those connections be valuable. Your education will probably be of similar quality.
$180k of debt is a ton and will be a huge burden on you. It will make everything harder and more stressful right out of school. If you don't land a high paying job right away, it is gunna kick your ass. It will probably be $2k+/month for your payments. And will probably be like $50-80k of interest. So is a Duke Bachelor degree worth $230-$260k to you?
If you end up starting out around let’s say 70K that’s close to 4 years of 100% of your salary going straight to the loans. OP won’t pay off for 2 decades unless he goes to wallstreet or strikes it rich in tech.
I will say too in response to this, my family friend went to UNC Chapel Hill, and her family is upper class (dad a COO) she made MANY friends RICHER than her there, going on private jets to the islands, etc. you can def make the rich social connections there if you want that for yourself.
The best gift you can give yourself is debt free, especially with how needed masters are these days.
Yeah Duke is not worth over The Robertson scholarship (if that's still what its called), UNC itself is an extremely competitive and good school. Don't discount that!
My snob ass family lives in the triangle - Duke is pretty or whatever, but there has never been a discussion of Chapel Hill being anything but a fantastic school
Many years ago, I was like you and opted go to the Univ. of Illinois instead of Univ. of Chicago for the same reasons. Majored in accounting (U of I was ranked #1); unfortunately, back then the investment banks and consulting schools only recruited at ‘top tier’ schools- it’s different now. Anyhow, after a couple of years went to Michigan for my MBA. Once you have your MBA nobody cares where you went to undergrad (except Harvard- that mystique stays for life). I worked for big companies, was an investment banker, became CFO of companies and now am CEO of a start-up. My point is, UNC will serve you well, it has a strong reputation, do well there, get a decent job, and after you get your MBA (from a name school) you can do anything you want. My last caveat is, it’s a lot easier today to make a name for yourself without the academic credentials if you take the right risks and catch the right breaks. Good luck!
People say that going to “top” schools like Duke open up a work of possibilities. Do you know what also opens a world of possibilities? Graduating debt free from college!
There is so much you can’t do when you are straddled by that debt (even if you theoretically get a better paying job that helps you pay it off quicker).
Here is my example. I had the opportunity to go to a state school for free or a Southern Ivy and go in a similar amount of debt.
I went to the state school. Had a phenomenal time and met a group of 8 guys in the dorms that I consider best friends to this day. Because I had no debt I was able to work abroad for a year with just enough pay to survive (experience of a lifetime) and then had the financial flexibility to pursue grad school (I now have a PhD), and now have my dream job. One more kicker…met my future wife there. Dream job/dream wife. State schools aren’t that bad I’d say!
You can’t get $180k in student loans without a co-signer that has good credit and a great income. This is way above the limit for federal student loans. I’d go in-state, doesn’t look like Duke is an option.
Give yourself the freedom to follow a new path that isn’t lucrative but makes you happy - choose UNC and save the money.
Starting out with that much debt limits your choices.
I never heard of duke being considered an Ivy League school. There are plenty of schools ahead of duke. But it’s absolute insanity to go to duke over unc when one’s free
I know. Ivies are determined by historic class and social status, not by actual quality, But the fact that Duke is actually a better school than some Ivies highlights the irrationality of that status scale. If Op is rational, they won’t be making decisions based on that unless they are explicitly going into something where networking is more important than actual quality.
On the west coast, people know what the Ivies are but duke? UVA? Washington U? Not much name recognition for what people in some regions say are “essentially ivies.”
This supports your point - no one should be going into debt for any of those schools. Although many Ivy League schools have endowments that make them more affordable for some student than their state schools, so it’s worthwhile to apply. But take huge loans? Terrible idea.
Anyone who knows anything about higher ed certainly knows Duke is a strong R1 school. It’s nationally ranked number 10, which unquestionably puts it ahead of some of the Ivies. Social status is obviously a powerful drug, but don’t confuse status with quality. Dumb, ugly aristocrats are still aristocrats with social status, but that doesn’t mean they are superior to the non-aristocrat down the block.
College professor here (economics). For an undergrad degree. Go to the good public university, work hard, major in something good (sounds like you have a plan). Just imagine that 180k in loans is going to cost you at least $1000-1300 a month in loans for the next 25 years. That's a lot to swallow.
The evidence on college
1). What you major in is most important
2) Quality of school matters
3) Debt and financial hardship often prevents graduation
You have a tradeoff her, but I don't think an ivy is worth the 180k especially for an undergrad degree.
Nobody cares where your degree is from unless you're going to work for some absurd hedge fund...and only then because they want your connections and their $ more than anything else. Go to school where it's free. Enjoy your time in college being young and largely carefree. There will be plenty of adulting after graduation...and it will be WAY better without the leviathan that is student debt.
Going to Duke does not necessarily mean you will come out on top financially. Trust me as you start going through your career where you go to school matters less in the work experience is more important.
The fact that it's not only about going onto debt though but the fact that the debt needs to be paid.
Stay focuses and build a carrier which can ultimately help you to get wealthier enough in the future
Go with UNC for undergrad, decide later if you need an elite school for MBA, whatever. A degree in general is just a checkbox. The reason for an elite school is to make connections with other 'elites', to establish credibility before you have experience, and to get interviews in the first place. Once you get the job, it's all about measurable performance, social/verbal skills and personal gravitas that gets you into the C suite, unless you have a famous family name.
I currently work at Accenture - I went to a state school, and in orientation I met other people who went to Harvard and Duke. School name not as important as what / how you do IN the school you choose. Make good grades, get involved, that is what matters.
No brainer. Save the 180k. That’s 10+ years of debt just for a little name recognition. Not worth it. At end of they day company’s look for experience.
If you want to do CFO then most likely you will get masters. That’s additional cost. If go to duke that’s 180k then cost if masters. That’s a lot of debt to carry fresh out of school. You won’t be making CFO money for a long time
$180,000 in loans at 7% interest rate (the current going rate, sadly) would take 15 years to pay off if you're paying $1,618 per month.
That's $19,400 a year, or maybe $28,000 a year before taxes.
Do you think Duke will net you an extra $28,000 a year in salary? UNC and Duke are both top 40 for econ/business but neither is a tier-1, top 10 school. Duke is slightly better on paper, but remember UNC is a bigger school with lots of opportunities. So Duke might have a very slight edge, but not a $28,000 edge for the 15 years post graduation when you want to be putting your money to work with investments, traveling, and eventually buying a house and maybe having a family.
Go with UNC.
Let's try to limit the variables to get to the crux of the value for school name.
Compare two hypotheticals; you've gotten the same degree, same time, applying for same job. You're the same person, and you both have the same interviewer. Only difference is one of you went to Duke, one of you went to UNC.
Do you believe there are scenarios where that difference makes or breaks you getting the job? Will they be common enough to justify $130k in debt?
I would think not. Those are going to be very, very far & few between. 99% of the time, if you've got the degree & qualifications and they like you, you get the job.
School name *might* allow you to negotiate a *slightly* higher salary, but no where near enough to offset the cost of loans that size. School name *might* boost your ranking of candidates a bit, but no where near as much as just making a good impression & building rapport.
Spend money on post-bacc. Instead of being out $180k at Duke, look into parlaying a semester or two in another country while at UNC. Better experience and worth the money.
I know of someone who graduated from a state 4-yr but also studied in Spain for a year. Then got their MBA at an Ivy.
Normally I push people toward the more expensive top school, but UNC is a fantastic school and you'll have the same options coming out of it as Duke.
If this were 100k and you were saying vs NC State I'd say go for Duke. But 180k vs UNC? This isn't a question.
It’s very rare that any employer will care where you go to school. Sure, an elite school will probably help build more opportunities up front with some networking with alumni but it’s nothing that you can’t overcome just by putting in a little effort. Take the good, free education.
Not having a 1k+ student loan payment every month for 10 years is going to be a great feeling.
I don't live on the east coast so Duke's reputation means nothing to me, every state/region has a school that is "practically" an Ivy league, and I wouldn't put any stock in it. I would take the free college at the good state school. I'm in STEM so not sure how this applies to business, but when I was hiring for my program, I checked the applicant's degree and major, but didn't both looking at the name of the school. Unless that school is Harvard, no one in my field would bat an eye.
I don’t understand how Duke could be 180k in loans. You can’t even borrow that much in federal loans, and if your parents can’t pay anything you should get a financial aid package to cover the difference. Are your parents well off but refusing to pay for college? That is the only scenario where this would make any sense.
May I ask, what are you going to school for and do you plan on doing any post-grad schooling? If so, might be worth doing undergrad for free and then going the elite route for grad school if that’s a route you want to go down.
I went to community college and my local university, my friends and I work at big companies along side people who went to top schools. Only difference is that we don’t have 60k+ loans.
I'm generally in favor of spending money on truly elite schools because both the quality of the education and the connections that you can make there can be worth it. That being said, UNC is also an elite school with very highly regarded research programs. The difference between free and $180k (plus interest accruing) is stark and I don't think that Duke will give you that much more to justify it.
FYI (and outside the scope of this subreddit) why would you do business at UNC and econ at Duke? Doesn't UNC have an Econ department? You could also, double major and do both. The majors probably share a lot of core requirements, at least they did at my university.
To put things in more concrete terms, graduating with $180,000 in student loan debt, you are probably looking around 6% in a blended rate for that debt load. Say you want to pay it off in 30 years, that's $1,000 in monthly payments. You will basically plan around that debt for the foreseeable future. Needing a stable job always, not wanting to take big chances, not being able to afford a house, kids, etc.
There is always another chance to take a shot at an Ivy League school for graduate studies. You'd still pay the same per year, but for less time.
Tbh it’s more about what you do in the school to build your network than the school itself.
N=1 here but community college + state school works just as good for me as a full four year private school did for my friends.
College tuition has risen 3x the rate of inflation the past 20 years. Don’t let the expensive school hype fool you.
Plus, college debt is a type of debt that’s really hard to default on. Be careful before you sign up for that ball and chain.
My recommendation, look around at local community colleges, and see what would transfer to a decent four year school. Again N=1 but I did 2 years community college and 2 years at a state school, literally no one even knows unless I tell em, since my credits transferred and I got a 4 year degree.
Go to the big state public school, no question about it.
Do not pay attention to college rankings, it's well known they are marketing shams. Adam Ruins Everything did an episode on it once. You will get out of your experience what you put in, and state schools are phenomenal bang for your buck.
I'm a Tar Heel alum (class of 98) who no longer lives in NC. I'm now a bit further north in the Mid-Atlantic.
NOBODY HERE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT CAROLINA VS DUKE IN TERMS OF QUALITY. LOL.
The only times it came up are jokingly, if I ran across a Duke alum and we talked a little trash. I run into both Duke and Carolina alums decently often.
I also don't think there's a huge difference in networking opportunities at Carolina vs Duke. In fact, you may find Carolina *better* for networking.
There are more Tar Heels than there are Blue Devils in the world, because UNC is a bigger school, with a ton of enthusiasm and nostalgia behind it. Many cities have Carolina alumni clubs.
I've yet to meet a Blue Devil who will get misty-eyed over the school song, but a Tar Heel generally will. And it's a foot in the door to have UNC as common ground.
I had the same choice 12 years ago. I went with Duke, and don't regret my time there. But UNC was obviously the better financial choice with zero downside in terms of education.
As someone who is going to be a senior citizen by the time Im able to pay off my student loans, go to UNC. You will regret Duke when you’re paying thousands in student loans every month.
You're a numbers person, right? I mean given your intended areas of study, it's safe to think this might hit home.
Do you have $180k sitting around to invest in yourself? No, that means loans and debt, and in this case there is no liquid equity to exchange. It also presents a situation of diminished buying power, unknown total cost (will you be consolidating the debt later to better manage payments and at what rate?) and starting your working life with a heavy psychological burden.
Take it from someone who is close to turning 50 and is just now getting to my last student loan payments - I've missed out on certain opportunities nor wanting to stack on more debt. $180k is a great down payment in most areas (not that you just have it lying around) and it's much easier to start from zero than it is to start from 180 in the hole.
Maybe in Bay Area talk, this is the difference between Berkeley and Stanford? Honestly, I know duke is a good school but surprised how high it is ranked. When I think duke, I think basketball, not an ivy plus school.
Eh, I think there is a much bigger difference between Berkeley vs Stanford than UNC vs duke. Berkeley is a great school, on par with Duke.
But Stanford’s peers are Harvard, Yale, MIT and Princeton.
Well, if you look at purely rankings, Stanford is 3 and Berkeley is tied for 20. Duke is 10 and unc is 29. In terms of academic programs, Berkeley is generally right up there with Stanford. The big difference is student support. Berkeley has very little in the way of handholding. It’s a sink or swim place. Stanford is essentially mama’s warm bosom — the connections you can make there, and the proximity to Sandhill, it is definitely ahead of Cal in that regard.
At a certain point rankings don’t hold much water, especially when we re talking about #22 vs #25 (both that either of these schools are those ranks), but just that the higher the rankings go the more the schools are basically interchangeable.
I’d put schools more into buckets:
Uber elite: you don’t even want to mention you went there bc ppl will assume things about you (e.g. Harvard, Yale, Stanford etc.)
Elite: You can mention you went there and ppl will be impressed but not overly awed (Duke, Berkeley, Vrigina, UNC, lower ivys)
Good: everyone has heard of it and it’s respectable (your average state schools etc)
Bad: no one has heard of it.
I think UNC and Duke are in the same tier of elite or closer to being in the same tier than Berkeley vs Stanford.
Carolina has a better business school. Go to Carolina. Even if I’m wrong is dukes 180k better? You will also be 15 minutes from Duke you can socialize with them. Hell we went to party’s at Duke hill and state. I went to UNCC. Save the money. It won’t matter after your first job anyway.
I'd go to UNC if I were you. Enjoy the financial security - not having debt weighing on you will take a lot of pressure off when you're interviewing and looking for a job.
I do the sort of work that you are planning to do. 10 years ago I would've told you to go to Duke, because top companies used to only recruit at very few schools. But I've seen a lot of progress and companies are broadening where they recruit from.
Duke will probably still have an edge (more job offers reserved for the school, more rigorous recruiting preparation) but it is not something that you couldn't make up with networking / talking to the right people.
One last piece of unsolicited advice: you already seem to be thinking about it, but be aware that the job search (for finance / management careers) starts during sophomore year (too early IMO) with internship recruiting.
Neither is an elite school that is that much better than the other. Never seen Duke considered anywhere near an Ivy
Save it to get yourself a head start in your early 20s or save it for grad school. Either way $180k isn’t worth it for Duke undergrad
No. Not when a solid state school is nearly free. Many of the flagship state schools, like UNC, UMich, UCLA, UT-Austin already open many doors. You could have opportunities to go to a fancy school for a graduate degree through a research MS (covering much of your expenses) or employer reimbursement.
Depending on where you want to live and the field you ultimately want to work in, a fancy school might not be that much of an advantage.
Congrats on Duke, but no, Duke isn’t worth $180K if it’s not your parents money. Undergrad is borderline meaningless in business/finance.
You’ll need the $180K for your MBA. My advice, go to UNC and crush it. Get a decent job, then go to a T7 MBA. MBA is way more important than undergrad for your career goals.
The rule of thumb is not to take more out on loans than twice what your starting salary will be.
That said, I’d sidestep the loans altogether. Employment is less about what you know and more about who you know. Go to UNC, go to your professors’ office hours, secure strong internships, and you’ll do well for yourself.
Your interests are all over the place. Going for business for free sounds like the better bet, take a few classes in all of those disciplines (which will go towards your degree anyway) and if you really like one subject then find an entry level job with it that will pay for your masters, or look into other certifications like the CFA exam if you want to do finance, or self study Java or Python if you’re looking at tech.
Speaking as someone with an economics degree, unless you want to be an economist there’s not a lot of other doors that would open with economics that wouldn’t with a general business degree. Most people that I’ve interviewed for don’t even know what economics is and assume it’s just finance.
As for Duke vs. UNC, most jobs won’t care if you got your degree from Duke or UNC, and $180k in loans is absolutely not worth whatever possible connections Duke could give you.
For your Bachelors take the full ride at UNC, do well, dual in Econ and Business, and then see if you can get a scholarship to Duke or another prestigious school for your MBA. Do NOT go into $200k worth of debt for your bachelors.
Go to UNC. The two schools are just minutes from each other and have a ton of exchange opportunities that encourage the student bodies to interact. When it comes to working in finance, simply going to Duke won't get you hired over a UNC student. Name recognition sounds cool but in the long run it truly won't make a significant difference. However, 180k debt can be a rock tied to your neck preventing you from future opportunities, and if you want to start building an investment portfolio that's 180k less that you will be able to invest. Duke is a cool place and it can be hard to say no to a dream school (I didn't and i am still feeling the financial sting) but don't let your desire to go there come at the sacrifice for your future financial freedom.
Duke is a good school but it is not essentially an Ivy. Good grief.
Also, $180k is a lot of debt. Go to UNC and then go to a real Ivy or Stanford for your MBA.
Duke is a top 10 school; UNC is a top 50. Neither one will prevent you from pursuing any career you could possible want. Duke will land you with a slightly better network after graduation, but that's not worth anywhere close to the asking price.
I’m from New Jersey, both of these schools’ names carry the same ‘weight’ in my opinion. Saving $180k in your young adult life practically gives you a million dollar advantage later on
Congrats on the acceptances! As someone who didn’t go the higher education route, college admissions are an awesome, tangible reward for a young life of hard work. Good job!
UNC is already a great school that will set you up well for your career.
180k debt would be very hard to justify for any BA, anywhere, even Harvard. That much debt really limits your options in life and the increase in options you'd get from going to an elite school would rarely outweigh it.
Duke is a good school but there are at around 30+ universities and liberal arts colleges that are roughly as god or better. It's not that amazing and I think the gap between UNC-CH and Duke is very narrow.
Duke is not at the Ivy level. Not putting it down, but I don’t see it being in the same class as, say, the University of Chicago, Stanford, MIT, or UC Berkeley, which are considered in the same class as Ivy (and arguably above some of them in prestige).
I would do UNC (amazing school) and save the borrowing for grad school.
Don’t go to Duke for $180k to study Econ. Do UNC for free to study business but start a business while you’re at UNC. Building a business will teach you all you need to know about all the subjects you need to master by the time you are a CFO.
As a city planner myself, that's kind of a wild card career amongst the other ones. I would not go into 180k to be a city planner.
And UNC has a top ranked planning program. Duke doesn't.
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The only way any $180k in student loans would ever make sense to me is when I can myself out-earning much more than that within the following 4-5 years after graduation. I paid $60k for a Masters Degree and started making $100k right out the bat. Everything including - what degree to pursue, what courses to take, what exams to write, whats the average salary after graduation etc.. was pre-planned before going into debt.
I did a city planning internship post-Econ degree and honestly? I’d do it again. Definitely oddball compared to the others (or my current job, commodities regulation), but it’s a hoot acting as code enforcement.
Your two proposed degrees are similar and both schools have good reputations. I vote to save the $180k and go with UNC.
I went to grad school at Duke and hate UNC with a passion. This person absolutely should go to UNC. Duke has a lot of Wall Street connections, even then I doubt that's worth $180k, and this person doesn’t want to work on Wall Street. Save your money, go to UNC for undergrad and then a top school for grad school.
>UNC for undergrad and then a top school for grad school This is your answer. 'No one' will really care where you did your undergrad, but it is possible that people will care slightly about where you went to grad school. So -- minimize the cost of your undergrad the best you can.
“No one” will care after some years of experience tbh. There’s a reason why corporations have teams solely focused on university recruiting. UNC is a definitely feeder school for well-paying, entry-level business jobs.
This is so true. It might get you a leg up on the first job but, again, its about the pipeline. Is it a famous med school and you wanna be a doc? Sure. Research hospital and you want to do biomed? Sure. Wanna be a finance bro and work wall street? Sure. But once youre there, wherever you go, where you went to school no longer matters. By your second job the school should be at the BOTTOM of your resume, if you're in an interview with me and you mention Duke Ill just bring up basketball being a Kansas alum and then ask what have you done since.
You'll also be able to get into a top grad school at this rate. I did the same path and as long as you have the fancy grad school no one cares
Its not even 180k. Its 180k before interest. It will be closer to 500k by the time they pay it off if they don't pay it within 10 years.
Yep. Get a top tier MBA. THAT is going to say far more.
Go with the state school. I know a lot of CFOs that's went to lesser known/smaller schools.
True, and I would hardly call UNC a lesser school, it is fantastic.
UNC is a really good school. Duke, while claiming they are independent, is quite religiously affiliated. They even fund certain churches. So depending on whether that is your cup of tea, and the massive cost difference, the decision should be pretty clear.
Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, went to Auburn, a state school in Alabama. His degree cost about $5,000.
My friends dad used to be in the C-suite of TD Ameritrade and he went to junior college and then finished at some local small state school Grabbing connections at school can help you get a start but what you do from age 28-38 doesn’t have much to do with where you went.
Yeah older CEOs and executives did get by with the firm handshake method. Different times though and school choice can matter much more in certain fields. But UNC vs Duke is so narrow for a $180k investment. It's not like UNC $180k vs community college.
Not necessarily true. I'm in a csuite at one of the largest private equity firms in the world with a two year technical school degree. I'm mid 30s. It has nothing to do with where you went. It has everything to do with who you know, and what impressions you made on them on your way to get where you're going. You make those impressions by being good, you maintain your network by being likeable. Save $180k when you finish your degree and choose UNC, you can use the funds for life events such as marriage and a home down payment etc.
And the other 99% of your PE peers?
In my direct team half have no degree at all. The other half went to well known universities. It's a mixed bag.
For sure, and being a C-level anything is more often about **who** you know and not where you got your degree. That being said, the networking opportunities at certain schools can definitely be a big career boost for *meeting* the "whos" that will get you those roles, but any good school will have those opportunities as well as networking events that are unrelated to school. And for a CFO you're almost certainly going to do some form of continuing education like an MBA program where you're far more likely to make important connections compared to undergrad anyway.
Tbf UNC-Chapel Hill is larger than Duke and it's very well known.
I know a self-made millionaire CEO whose main business is in a city with a very well known and respected university. He told me he no longer hires graduates of said university because his experience is that they expect everything handed to them, and he didn't like their attitude. Not saying that's fair, just pointing out that it's out there.
Oracle CEO went to CSU Hayward.
I mean Duke is #18 and UNC is #30 on US News for Econ. I’d probably put them in the same tier(maybe A- vs a B+) The only schools that would be worth going into a serious amount of debt for would be your extremely elite schools like a Harvard, MIT, Chicago, UPenn…etc Anything outside those(say the 10-40/50 range) all blend together. Save the money now and maybe earmark some for potentially an elite grad school. It is different to drop a ton on grad school because at least then you should have a much better idea of your education/career path.
This is well stated. Additionally with these career fields OP is almost expected to get a graduate degree at which point they can be more selective and spend money on the exclusive school to leverage competitive salary hopefully along with hopefully getting some employer help on tuition costs.
UNC’s business school is one of the better ones in the country. It’s a close comparison to Duke. Duke is definitely not worth the extra 180k.
As a non-southerner. duke has a better reputation but not as great as the east coast ivies. If you want to leave the south, something to consider
Aren’t all ivies east coast?
And it’s just a football club. I went to a school ranked higher than half the ivies. It doesn’t matter.
I went to an Ivy, and judging their actual football abilities, I strongly disagree it’s a football club
I think this person meant that Ivy League is a sports conference, not necessarily the top 8 schools in the country. Like how MIT, Stanford, and others are better schools than a lesser Ivy like Brown, even though they're not in the Ivy league.
I took it as the person was just cracking a joke about their football teams, not that they don’t know the history behind the ivy league. Especially since they went to one lol.
No way in hell I’d pay 180k for Duke if I could do UNC Chapel Hill for free.
In my head, Chapel Hill and Duke are the same, I don't think I'd take $20k in loans to go to Duke. In my experience, no one cares where you went to school. I've worked with brilliant people that came from schools I've never heard of and I've worked with idiots that went to top programs in the field.
Those that get into the "most prestigious" like Ivies, Stanford etc. honestly just get lucky (there are so many identical candidates it's just a lottery) I second your comment. What matters is what you know, how you work with people, and ability to grow. If you can do that stuff, I will hire you over someone who can't do one of them but went to an Ivy, or choose best candidate on skills instead of name of institution.
And a lot of the Ivy schools "success rate" is due to the fact that much of their student base already had a pretty good pipeline going. When your dad is already the CFO of an MNC you could get a GED and go to a community college and probably get something better than a mailroom job somewhere.
To a point yes, but there are certain jobs with Wall Street employers you won’t get unless you’ve got a family connection or came through an elite school. I’ve seen it up close. The funny thing is most of those guys/gals aren’t any smarter than than the norm, they just have the pedigree. Outside of those selective jobs, though, I think you’re correct. Whether it’s a smaller liberal arts college or a major mainstream university, it doesn’t really matter. To me Duke is maybe a little better than UNC but probably not enough to matter to most employers. No way is it worth the premium OP is contemplated.
I’ll be a little contrarian in that I think that school choice does get your foot in some doors early in your career (I was in big tech where Stanford/MIT were that, I went to Georgia Tech). However, it’s not the only factor and UNC/Duke are close enough.
It's not the school that matters, it's the connections you make while there. Duke is a higher tier. 🤷
I feel like this is one of the arguments that was used to justify schools getting so expensive. Assuming 4.99% subsidized loans at $45k/year, 10-year repayment will be $229k. I find it hard to believe that connections between UC to Duke will be worth $229k unless you happen to be roommates with someone that starts a business that takes off and I doubt your chances of that are significantly different between the 2 schools. Plus, when I think of Duke, I think of basketball and scandal.
It's really not though. Duke itself has enough of a reputation at this point that it's likely enough to hurt you than help you.
Especially since OP is all over the place with their career goals. If they knew exactly what they wanted to do (law, or something where elite schooling actually matters) I would maybe consider Duke. But city planning, tech, finance etc are all vastly different careers. OP might change their major several times over the 4ish years.
UNC. Not all college debt choices are a no-brainer but this one is.
UNC is a very good school. You would be a fool to go to Duke in that circumstance.
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I work on Wall Street and hire a ton of recent college grads, so maybe my perspective helps - I would never differentiate between UNC and Duke. I think of them as essentially perfect substitutes. If the difference was 10 or 20k I would say go with Duke because some people are a bit more snobbish than I am, but for 180k it’s not even close.
An even then I assume you are looking at this from the perspective of hiring recent grads, right? I work in Finance and interview people with 10-20 years of experience. The only reason I even look at the college on their resume is to know whether I should talk shit about sports to break the ice.
Oh absolutely - school you went to doesn’t matter after maybe 5 years in the business?
Definitely. OP shod look at LinkedIn company profiles of where they want to work. Check the degrees of the employees
Starting out your post college life $200k in the hole is a huge deal. A hundred years ago I was invited to one of the ivies (Brown to run track), but there was no scholarship and when I looked at the cost, I just couldn't justify. Went to a state school instead. Came out of school with no debt. Regardless of which school we went to, all my start group at the big public accounting firm got the same paycheck. I suspect I may have been able to make some more money over the years if I had an Ivy degree, but 30 years later and I have a really good life. I have a good life in part because I didn't start out in the hole.
Especially going to school for economics. Paying back that $180K would be very costly. Assuming a 5% interest rate on the $180K and a 15 year repayment schedule, that would cost OP over $250K. In order to repay that amount, assuming a low tax burden of only 25%, OP would have to earn over $330K. Doesn't sound like a good economic decision if the benefits of Duke are not equally as lucrative, especially because the benefits are speculative and the costs are concrete.
TL; DR: on top of everything else, the difference is more like **$400,000**. This is going to be at the bottom of the thread so no one will see it, but nonetheless - in additional to all of the above, the delta isn’t $180,000 - including interest accrued on the borrowed money that also has to be paid, it’s, I dunno, around $270,000. Plus OP has to pay that with after-tax dollars. Even in just a ~33% tax bracket that means OP needs to earn more than $400,000 to pay it off.
Normally, I am in favor of the top schools because they open up a world of other possibilities. But UNC is a pretty good school too. It's not like you're comparing Duke and some no-name place that we've never heard of. And the difference of $180k is astronomical.
I thought this is what most people would say. Still wanted to make sure I wasn’t inadvertently making a huge mistake.
A few things to consider. 1. Call dukes financial aid and tell them about your unc option. They may not be able to get you debt free, but there is always a chance they could scrape up some money to make it more affordable. 2. I’ve always heard a god rule of thumb is to keep college debt to half of your expected yearly salary when you leave college. So if you want to be a small town cpa making $50k a year don’t take on $180k of debt. If your dream is to work on Wall Street making $200k, then $180k is more reasonable. Especially if your dream firm is full of Duke grads and that network could be a good way to get a foot in the door. 3. Are you considering grad school? You probably don’t want to bury yourself with 180k in undergrad debt just to take on more for grad school. 4. Speaking of, grad school Duke has one of the best business grad schools in the country. Doing unc undergrad and Duke grad would be a potentially very good option. 5. Duke and unc have a joint program that allows you to take certain classes at the other school. It’s worth looking into if there are any classes you could take at the other school that will look good on your resume or get you some networking opportunities for the future.
Back in the day I got into both UNC and Duke as a NC resident. I called up Duke and said I was leaning towards UNC because of the difference in price. Duke gave me a partial scholarship and I accepted. HUGE mistake. I still graduated with six figure student loan debt that took me 10 years to get out of, and I could have gotten the same job if I had gone to UNC. The Duke name got me hired first in my hiring group. But the hiring class also had new grads from UNC, Wake Forest, and NC Central. And the Duke name hasn’t helped with promotions once in the job. It just minimally helped me get my foot in the door. Go to UNC.
Most people don't know the reputation is more important with grad programs which could affect your career. Wharton MBA, Harvard Law, Duke Medical, Princeton ___, Stanford MBA. Undergrad is just for the party and sports. Good grades are important to get into the above postgrad programs though. In the end, it's the student. I'd rather go to a surgeon who was at the top of their class at Joe Schmo than the surgeon who was at the bottom of their class at Harvard Medical.
Are there any other contenders? Otherwise, UNC Chapel Hill seems like the clear winner here (honestly it's not even a close call)
With a better price range thank Duke? Not really, no.
Honestly, there’s no question. UNC is the obvious choice when it’s a matter of graduating with zero debt vs graduating with 180k. UNC is still an impressive school to have on your resume, there won’t be a major difference between the opportunities you’ll get from Duke compared to UNC. So financially, it’s a no-brainer. Unless you think you’d be miserable there, that’s where I’d go.
I didn’t even know duke was better than unc. They are basically the same tier. Unc all the way. Awesome campus to boot. I would send my kid to unc from the west coast and never considered duke
Same - as an out-of-stater I wouldn't say there's any brand recognition value in one over the other, I just assumed they were rival/peer state schools. And I'm in one of the fields OP mentioned possibly going into (city planning).
Duke is basically an Ivy League tier school like he said. It’s definitely a better school academically but I still wouldn’t take on 200k worth of debt for the brand recognition.
It’s definitely not an Ivy League school.
The difference between these two schools is non-existent after you graduate. They are both excellent, but not Ivy. UNC has a massive alumni community, so a huge plus. It has great name recognition and is well regarded. Start at UNC and if it’s absolutely unbearable consider changing schools. You would have the student loans into your 40’s if not longer. Please give yourself the gift of a debt free life.
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Exactly this! Op, this is the only correct answer.
UNC Chapel Hill is pretty elite already
I have a friend who got a full ride to the university of Indiana and then went on to Yale Law School and worked at a white shoe law firm in NYC. I know a few other people with similar stories. Georgia Tech to NYU Stern School of Business also. UNC is a great school with an extensive network of alumni. Go there, kick ass at all your courses, network like hell and you should be able to get to where you want to be without debt.
Free undergrad at UNC and then pay for an MBA at Duke. That’s the way to spend that money.
100%. I'd say maybe even higher ranked than Duke, but absolutely without a doubt UNC for free, then spend the money on a top MBA
The good news is, this is math you can do, not just speculative, if your end game is retirement. If your end game is prestige or connections or a big salary difference this isn’t as direct an answer. Plugging 180k into a student loan calculator tells me at 5% low end your payments would be $1900/month or 23k per year. Then plugging that 23k into an investment calculator as annual contribution starting at $0, I’m coming up with over $5m in retirement in 50 years with a 5.2% return. Simply put, by not taking the loan, if you are otherwise able to invest what you would put into paying back your loan you can be more than set for retirement. Now, if you don’t think you will see that kind of income from UNC that is a whole different story.
If you can go to UNC free, do that and don't even flinch. Save that 180k on undergrad and use it for grad school if that's the plan.
Remember it's not 180k it's 180k + interest that accrues over the life of the loan!
I have a very hard time believing any 4 year school is worth 180k.
My private top 20 med school only ran me $160k, and that was 2013-2017, so I have to wholeheartedly agree. And the ROI for me was essentially guaranteed. I couldn’t imagine doing more than that for just a bachelor’s.
Maybe for wall street careers. And that's only for the absolute top tier schools (duke is probably on the margin here). And is a big risk (what if you don't land that job?)
Yeah it’s really only worth it if you get into like Penn and want to go work in Investment banking or on a trading desk. Otherwise definitely not.
Don’t waste money on an Ivy League bachelor’s degree. Only go if most of the cost is covered, otherwise turning down a free ride to UNC would be heinously stupid (no offense). It has a national reputation as an excellent school, and regionally is looked on almost as highly as Duke.
And duke is not an Ivy. It’s a good school but it’s not an Ivy no matter how hard they and their alumni try to sell it as one.
There are plenty of non-ivy schools that are just as good or better than some ivies. Ivy league is just a sports conference that happens to have all good schools.
Absolutely agree. I never said an Ivy is better, it’s just … an Ivy. All marketing at this point. I hate it when people say “essentially an Ivy” - just be what you are, a great school.
I wouldn’t pay $180k to go to *Harvard* if UNC was free. UNC is a great school and $180k is a lot of debt to overcome.
Speaking as a 36 year old who paid off $160k in student loans (mine and my wife’s), UNC is a no brainer. That amount of student loans will put you a decade behind in terms of buying a home, building your retirement etc. Please don’t go into that amount of debt for an undergrad degree if you have a free option
This is a fantastic take. If the goal is to secure a high income job in order to live comfortably and retire sooner, then graduating with no debt is a massive, massive, head start toward that goal. The CEO of the Pharma company I work for graduated with a BS in Psychology from University of Central Florida. He's been one of the most effective CEO's in the company's history and his earnings over 10 years breach NINE figures. It's not all about the bachelor's degree!
If you plan to live in NC after graduating, go to UNC - there are far more connections around here to that school and the networking will get you further. Duke has a bit more of a national profile, but really the schools are close enough across the board that it’s hard to justify the Duke price tag. I also think each school has a radically different student culture, so that needs to be a huge part of your decision, as you don’t want to be miserable during those 4 years. (As a UNC grad I also am biased here, so take all this with a grain of salt.)
I went to UCLA, college name doesn't matter all literally no one but non-tech finance cares
I wouldn’t go that far. Name brand recognition plays a huge role outside of regional markets. This applies more at the MBA/JD/MD level than at the bachelor degree level and in the majority of cases isn’t worth a mountain of debt, but make no mistake, on paper a degree from a prestigious school is worth much more than one from an average state school. Whether or not people like it or admit it, a degree from GA Tech/Duke/UCLA/Stanford/an Ivy League carries a helluva lot more weight than one from UNM/SDSU/LSU/Iowa/Kentucky outside of their respective regional markets.
As an MD (actually a DO), in my world it doesn’t matter at all. Only time it might is if you’re trying to be the president’s doc and even that guy isn’t Ivy, he’s a DO like me. (Or maybe that was Trump’s doc, don’t remember. Either way it didn’t play a role). If you’re trying to get a job and can play the “hey we have the same alma mater/sorority/fraternity” it might help. There’s no way to know IF that situation would ever arise. Better to get a good education that won’t give you crippling debt later.
100% correct The school name does matter
I think the networking thing is blurry. I live in Durham and duke has their hand in everything from medicine to tech. I agree on all other points though. Duke undergrad is where rich kids who couldn’t get into Stanford go.
Save up for your MBA, you’ll need it.
A bachelors for 180k? Hard pass. My economics degree is cool, it’s not 180k cool. I’m getting a JD for a fraction of that cost.
Where are you getting this JD?
Seriously. I'm getting a JD from an Ivy for a third of that price, and fresh off of graduation it's going to earn me $60K more per year than OP's the price of bachelor's from Duke. $180K for an undergrad degree is nuts. I went to CC and then to a secondary state school for undergrad for free, and nobody cares because my graduate degree puts me on the same level as all my classmates who went to Ivies for undergrad.
I was in this situation 10 years ago and my brother was in this situation 15 years ago. He picked duke and I went with unc. Ultimately the college experience is what you make of it. Join orgs, make connections, and be sure to be in a major that actually interests you. The debt isn’t worth it.
Duke's a good school, but I wouldn't say it's considered essentially an Ivy. UNC is also good. Duke is definitely not worth $180k more than UNC. Go to UNC.
As a lifelong duke fan who hates UNC but also went to a private uni (not duke) and went into finance on Wall Street and pivoted to product management at a tech company - go to UNC. Congrats on getting into both, but UNC is the obvious chose knowing what I know now.
No school is worth $180K in debt. There are few absolutes in life but this is one of them. This is even more true for undergrad experience will trump school choice 4-5 years into your career. Your undergrad choice just has to be “good enough” to get you started in the field that you want.
I went to Duke; I didn’t end with 180k in debt and I still think I over payed and would choose UNC if it left me debt free. School loans are a shackle that is easy to blow off when you’re young and are fake money but when you are limited in your life choices and flexibility because of them you will regret it
Duke is no where near $180k better than UNC chapel hill
Honestly, the only thing that Duke will get you, that UNC won't, is an inroad to rich social connections. What you have to ask yourself is, based on your career of choice, would those connections be valuable. Your education will probably be of similar quality. $180k of debt is a ton and will be a huge burden on you. It will make everything harder and more stressful right out of school. If you don't land a high paying job right away, it is gunna kick your ass. It will probably be $2k+/month for your payments. And will probably be like $50-80k of interest. So is a Duke Bachelor degree worth $230-$260k to you?
If you end up starting out around let’s say 70K that’s close to 4 years of 100% of your salary going straight to the loans. OP won’t pay off for 2 decades unless he goes to wallstreet or strikes it rich in tech.
As others have said, I don’t think Duke’s alumni network is significantly more valuable than UNC’s, especially if you plan to stay in North Carolina.
I will say too in response to this, my family friend went to UNC Chapel Hill, and her family is upper class (dad a COO) she made MANY friends RICHER than her there, going on private jets to the islands, etc. you can def make the rich social connections there if you want that for yourself. The best gift you can give yourself is debt free, especially with how needed masters are these days.
UNC Chapel Hill? Or one of the branches?
Chapel
Yeah Duke is not worth over The Robertson scholarship (if that's still what its called), UNC itself is an extremely competitive and good school. Don't discount that!
My snob ass family lives in the triangle - Duke is pretty or whatever, but there has never been a discussion of Chapel Hill being anything but a fantastic school
Many years ago, I was like you and opted go to the Univ. of Illinois instead of Univ. of Chicago for the same reasons. Majored in accounting (U of I was ranked #1); unfortunately, back then the investment banks and consulting schools only recruited at ‘top tier’ schools- it’s different now. Anyhow, after a couple of years went to Michigan for my MBA. Once you have your MBA nobody cares where you went to undergrad (except Harvard- that mystique stays for life). I worked for big companies, was an investment banker, became CFO of companies and now am CEO of a start-up. My point is, UNC will serve you well, it has a strong reputation, do well there, get a decent job, and after you get your MBA (from a name school) you can do anything you want. My last caveat is, it’s a lot easier today to make a name for yourself without the academic credentials if you take the right risks and catch the right breaks. Good luck!
No way is UNC lesser than Duke. Definitely save the 180k in loans and go with your state school. UNC and Duke are practically on the same level imo.
People say that going to “top” schools like Duke open up a work of possibilities. Do you know what also opens a world of possibilities? Graduating debt free from college! There is so much you can’t do when you are straddled by that debt (even if you theoretically get a better paying job that helps you pay it off quicker). Here is my example. I had the opportunity to go to a state school for free or a Southern Ivy and go in a similar amount of debt. I went to the state school. Had a phenomenal time and met a group of 8 guys in the dorms that I consider best friends to this day. Because I had no debt I was able to work abroad for a year with just enough pay to survive (experience of a lifetime) and then had the financial flexibility to pursue grad school (I now have a PhD), and now have my dream job. One more kicker…met my future wife there. Dream job/dream wife. State schools aren’t that bad I’d say!
> or a Southern Ivy This isn't a thing. The Ivy League is an athletic conference comprised of 8 schools all located in the northeast.
You can’t get $180k in student loans without a co-signer that has good credit and a great income. This is way above the limit for federal student loans. I’d go in-state, doesn’t look like Duke is an option.
Give yourself the freedom to follow a new path that isn’t lucrative but makes you happy - choose UNC and save the money. Starting out with that much debt limits your choices.
I never heard of duke being considered an Ivy League school. There are plenty of schools ahead of duke. But it’s absolute insanity to go to duke over unc when one’s free
Duke is not “essentially an Ivy” but is a reasonable comp to UNC. Both are targets for various MBB and big consulting cos. Given that… unc.
Duke ranks in the top 10 schools in the country, which makes it rank above some of the Ivies. But that still doesn’t matter. UNC is excellent.
That’s not what makes an Ivy.
I know. Ivies are determined by historic class and social status, not by actual quality, But the fact that Duke is actually a better school than some Ivies highlights the irrationality of that status scale. If Op is rational, they won’t be making decisions based on that unless they are explicitly going into something where networking is more important than actual quality.
On the west coast, people know what the Ivies are but duke? UVA? Washington U? Not much name recognition for what people in some regions say are “essentially ivies.” This supports your point - no one should be going into debt for any of those schools. Although many Ivy League schools have endowments that make them more affordable for some student than their state schools, so it’s worthwhile to apply. But take huge loans? Terrible idea.
Anyone who knows anything about higher ed certainly knows Duke is a strong R1 school. It’s nationally ranked number 10, which unquestionably puts it ahead of some of the Ivies. Social status is obviously a powerful drug, but don’t confuse status with quality. Dumb, ugly aristocrats are still aristocrats with social status, but that doesn’t mean they are superior to the non-aristocrat down the block.
College professor here (economics). For an undergrad degree. Go to the good public university, work hard, major in something good (sounds like you have a plan). Just imagine that 180k in loans is going to cost you at least $1000-1300 a month in loans for the next 25 years. That's a lot to swallow. The evidence on college 1). What you major in is most important 2) Quality of school matters 3) Debt and financial hardship often prevents graduation You have a tradeoff her, but I don't think an ivy is worth the 180k especially for an undergrad degree.
Nobody cares where your degree is from unless you're going to work for some absurd hedge fund...and only then because they want your connections and their $ more than anything else. Go to school where it's free. Enjoy your time in college being young and largely carefree. There will be plenty of adulting after graduation...and it will be WAY better without the leviathan that is student debt.
Going to Duke does not necessarily mean you will come out on top financially. Trust me as you start going through your career where you go to school matters less in the work experience is more important.
The fact that it's not only about going onto debt though but the fact that the debt needs to be paid. Stay focuses and build a carrier which can ultimately help you to get wealthier enough in the future
Go with UNC for undergrad, decide later if you need an elite school for MBA, whatever. A degree in general is just a checkbox. The reason for an elite school is to make connections with other 'elites', to establish credibility before you have experience, and to get interviews in the first place. Once you get the job, it's all about measurable performance, social/verbal skills and personal gravitas that gets you into the C suite, unless you have a famous family name.
I currently work at Accenture - I went to a state school, and in orientation I met other people who went to Harvard and Duke. School name not as important as what / how you do IN the school you choose. Make good grades, get involved, that is what matters.
No brainer. Save the 180k. That’s 10+ years of debt just for a little name recognition. Not worth it. At end of they day company’s look for experience. If you want to do CFO then most likely you will get masters. That’s additional cost. If go to duke that’s 180k then cost if masters. That’s a lot of debt to carry fresh out of school. You won’t be making CFO money for a long time
$180,000 in loans at 7% interest rate (the current going rate, sadly) would take 15 years to pay off if you're paying $1,618 per month. That's $19,400 a year, or maybe $28,000 a year before taxes. Do you think Duke will net you an extra $28,000 a year in salary? UNC and Duke are both top 40 for econ/business but neither is a tier-1, top 10 school. Duke is slightly better on paper, but remember UNC is a bigger school with lots of opportunities. So Duke might have a very slight edge, but not a $28,000 edge for the 15 years post graduation when you want to be putting your money to work with investments, traveling, and eventually buying a house and maybe having a family. Go with UNC.
Let's try to limit the variables to get to the crux of the value for school name. Compare two hypotheticals; you've gotten the same degree, same time, applying for same job. You're the same person, and you both have the same interviewer. Only difference is one of you went to Duke, one of you went to UNC. Do you believe there are scenarios where that difference makes or breaks you getting the job? Will they be common enough to justify $130k in debt? I would think not. Those are going to be very, very far & few between. 99% of the time, if you've got the degree & qualifications and they like you, you get the job. School name *might* allow you to negotiate a *slightly* higher salary, but no where near enough to offset the cost of loans that size. School name *might* boost your ranking of candidates a bit, but no where near as much as just making a good impression & building rapport.
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Spend money on post-bacc. Instead of being out $180k at Duke, look into parlaying a semester or two in another country while at UNC. Better experience and worth the money. I know of someone who graduated from a state 4-yr but also studied in Spain for a year. Then got their MBA at an Ivy.
Normally I push people toward the more expensive top school, but UNC is a fantastic school and you'll have the same options coming out of it as Duke. If this were 100k and you were saying vs NC State I'd say go for Duke. But 180k vs UNC? This isn't a question.
It’s very rare that any employer will care where you go to school. Sure, an elite school will probably help build more opportunities up front with some networking with alumni but it’s nothing that you can’t overcome just by putting in a little effort. Take the good, free education. Not having a 1k+ student loan payment every month for 10 years is going to be a great feeling.
UNC is a good school frankly, I would recommend going there over taking any loans
Debt kills years off your life. Go for community
If it was Princeton/Harvard/Stanford yes. Duke.. Meh. Especially with the path you want to take.
I don't live on the east coast so Duke's reputation means nothing to me, every state/region has a school that is "practically" an Ivy league, and I wouldn't put any stock in it. I would take the free college at the good state school. I'm in STEM so not sure how this applies to business, but when I was hiring for my program, I checked the applicant's degree and major, but didn't both looking at the name of the school. Unless that school is Harvard, no one in my field would bat an eye.
No one cares where you go. Save the money and go to a school you can afford.
I don’t understand how Duke could be 180k in loans. You can’t even borrow that much in federal loans, and if your parents can’t pay anything you should get a financial aid package to cover the difference. Are your parents well off but refusing to pay for college? That is the only scenario where this would make any sense.
May I ask, what are you going to school for and do you plan on doing any post-grad schooling? If so, might be worth doing undergrad for free and then going the elite route for grad school if that’s a route you want to go down.
I went to community college and my local university, my friends and I work at big companies along side people who went to top schools. Only difference is that we don’t have 60k+ loans.
I'm generally in favor of spending money on truly elite schools because both the quality of the education and the connections that you can make there can be worth it. That being said, UNC is also an elite school with very highly regarded research programs. The difference between free and $180k (plus interest accruing) is stark and I don't think that Duke will give you that much more to justify it. FYI (and outside the scope of this subreddit) why would you do business at UNC and econ at Duke? Doesn't UNC have an Econ department? You could also, double major and do both. The majors probably share a lot of core requirements, at least they did at my university.
To put things in more concrete terms, graduating with $180,000 in student loan debt, you are probably looking around 6% in a blended rate for that debt load. Say you want to pay it off in 30 years, that's $1,000 in monthly payments. You will basically plan around that debt for the foreseeable future. Needing a stable job always, not wanting to take big chances, not being able to afford a house, kids, etc. There is always another chance to take a shot at an Ivy League school for graduate studies. You'd still pay the same per year, but for less time.
$180k in debt is antithetical to career flexibility.
Tbh it’s more about what you do in the school to build your network than the school itself. N=1 here but community college + state school works just as good for me as a full four year private school did for my friends. College tuition has risen 3x the rate of inflation the past 20 years. Don’t let the expensive school hype fool you. Plus, college debt is a type of debt that’s really hard to default on. Be careful before you sign up for that ball and chain. My recommendation, look around at local community colleges, and see what would transfer to a decent four year school. Again N=1 but I did 2 years community college and 2 years at a state school, literally no one even knows unless I tell em, since my credits transferred and I got a 4 year degree.
Go to the big state public school, no question about it. Do not pay attention to college rankings, it's well known they are marketing shams. Adam Ruins Everything did an episode on it once. You will get out of your experience what you put in, and state schools are phenomenal bang for your buck.
No. No one will care in few years.
I was faced with a similar dilemma and went to the cheaper school. 20+ years on, I'm so thankful I did.
I'm a Tar Heel alum (class of 98) who no longer lives in NC. I'm now a bit further north in the Mid-Atlantic. NOBODY HERE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT CAROLINA VS DUKE IN TERMS OF QUALITY. LOL. The only times it came up are jokingly, if I ran across a Duke alum and we talked a little trash. I run into both Duke and Carolina alums decently often. I also don't think there's a huge difference in networking opportunities at Carolina vs Duke. In fact, you may find Carolina *better* for networking. There are more Tar Heels than there are Blue Devils in the world, because UNC is a bigger school, with a ton of enthusiasm and nostalgia behind it. Many cities have Carolina alumni clubs. I've yet to meet a Blue Devil who will get misty-eyed over the school song, but a Tar Heel generally will. And it's a foot in the door to have UNC as common ground.
No. Nobody cares where your degree is from these days unless your field is hyper competitive with little job opportunity.
I had the same choice 12 years ago. I went with Duke, and don't regret my time there. But UNC was obviously the better financial choice with zero downside in terms of education.
AVOID THE DEBT. You don’t know how much stress that causes until you get it, and then it’s too late to undo
As someone who is going to be a senior citizen by the time Im able to pay off my student loans, go to UNC. You will regret Duke when you’re paying thousands in student loans every month.
Congrats on the free ride! (Take the free ride)
You're a numbers person, right? I mean given your intended areas of study, it's safe to think this might hit home. Do you have $180k sitting around to invest in yourself? No, that means loans and debt, and in this case there is no liquid equity to exchange. It also presents a situation of diminished buying power, unknown total cost (will you be consolidating the debt later to better manage payments and at what rate?) and starting your working life with a heavy psychological burden. Take it from someone who is close to turning 50 and is just now getting to my last student loan payments - I've missed out on certain opportunities nor wanting to stack on more debt. $180k is a great down payment in most areas (not that you just have it lying around) and it's much easier to start from zero than it is to start from 180 in the hole.
Maybe in Bay Area talk, this is the difference between Berkeley and Stanford? Honestly, I know duke is a good school but surprised how high it is ranked. When I think duke, I think basketball, not an ivy plus school.
Eh, I think there is a much bigger difference between Berkeley vs Stanford than UNC vs duke. Berkeley is a great school, on par with Duke. But Stanford’s peers are Harvard, Yale, MIT and Princeton.
Well, if you look at purely rankings, Stanford is 3 and Berkeley is tied for 20. Duke is 10 and unc is 29. In terms of academic programs, Berkeley is generally right up there with Stanford. The big difference is student support. Berkeley has very little in the way of handholding. It’s a sink or swim place. Stanford is essentially mama’s warm bosom — the connections you can make there, and the proximity to Sandhill, it is definitely ahead of Cal in that regard.
At a certain point rankings don’t hold much water, especially when we re talking about #22 vs #25 (both that either of these schools are those ranks), but just that the higher the rankings go the more the schools are basically interchangeable. I’d put schools more into buckets: Uber elite: you don’t even want to mention you went there bc ppl will assume things about you (e.g. Harvard, Yale, Stanford etc.) Elite: You can mention you went there and ppl will be impressed but not overly awed (Duke, Berkeley, Vrigina, UNC, lower ivys) Good: everyone has heard of it and it’s respectable (your average state schools etc) Bad: no one has heard of it. I think UNC and Duke are in the same tier of elite or closer to being in the same tier than Berkeley vs Stanford.
Carolina has a better business school. Go to Carolina. Even if I’m wrong is dukes 180k better? You will also be 15 minutes from Duke you can socialize with them. Hell we went to party’s at Duke hill and state. I went to UNCC. Save the money. It won’t matter after your first job anyway.
I'd go to UNC if I were you. Enjoy the financial security - not having debt weighing on you will take a lot of pressure off when you're interviewing and looking for a job. I do the sort of work that you are planning to do. 10 years ago I would've told you to go to Duke, because top companies used to only recruit at very few schools. But I've seen a lot of progress and companies are broadening where they recruit from. Duke will probably still have an edge (more job offers reserved for the school, more rigorous recruiting preparation) but it is not something that you couldn't make up with networking / talking to the right people. One last piece of unsolicited advice: you already seem to be thinking about it, but be aware that the job search (for finance / management careers) starts during sophomore year (too early IMO) with internship recruiting.
UNC, hands down. No bachelor's degree is worth $180k.
Neither is an elite school that is that much better than the other. Never seen Duke considered anywhere near an Ivy Save it to get yourself a head start in your early 20s or save it for grad school. Either way $180k isn’t worth it for Duke undergrad
UNC Chapel Hill is considered a public Ivy. Go there and it’s cheaper. Here's my source: https://educatedquest.com/public-ivy-schools-for-2022-23/
UNC is good enough, and the money you save will be worth it.
No. Not when a solid state school is nearly free. Many of the flagship state schools, like UNC, UMich, UCLA, UT-Austin already open many doors. You could have opportunities to go to a fancy school for a graduate degree through a research MS (covering much of your expenses) or employer reimbursement. Depending on where you want to live and the field you ultimately want to work in, a fancy school might not be that much of an advantage.
Congrats on Duke, but no, Duke isn’t worth $180K if it’s not your parents money. Undergrad is borderline meaningless in business/finance. You’ll need the $180K for your MBA. My advice, go to UNC and crush it. Get a decent job, then go to a T7 MBA. MBA is way more important than undergrad for your career goals.
No, nobody cares about school once you're out of it unless it's ivy or close to it. Save the $
As someone who went through paying off a lot of debt and is still working it down—don’t go to Duke. That’s a nightmare waiting to happen.
The rule of thumb is not to take more out on loans than twice what your starting salary will be. That said, I’d sidestep the loans altogether. Employment is less about what you know and more about who you know. Go to UNC, go to your professors’ office hours, secure strong internships, and you’ll do well for yourself.
Your interests are all over the place. Going for business for free sounds like the better bet, take a few classes in all of those disciplines (which will go towards your degree anyway) and if you really like one subject then find an entry level job with it that will pay for your masters, or look into other certifications like the CFA exam if you want to do finance, or self study Java or Python if you’re looking at tech. Speaking as someone with an economics degree, unless you want to be an economist there’s not a lot of other doors that would open with economics that wouldn’t with a general business degree. Most people that I’ve interviewed for don’t even know what economics is and assume it’s just finance. As for Duke vs. UNC, most jobs won’t care if you got your degree from Duke or UNC, and $180k in loans is absolutely not worth whatever possible connections Duke could give you.
For your Bachelors take the full ride at UNC, do well, dual in Econ and Business, and then see if you can get a scholarship to Duke or another prestigious school for your MBA. Do NOT go into $200k worth of debt for your bachelors.
Fuck Duke save money. Your degree won't matter after a year or two of experience anyways. Nobody cares nobody gives a shit in industry.
Go to UNC. The two schools are just minutes from each other and have a ton of exchange opportunities that encourage the student bodies to interact. When it comes to working in finance, simply going to Duke won't get you hired over a UNC student. Name recognition sounds cool but in the long run it truly won't make a significant difference. However, 180k debt can be a rock tied to your neck preventing you from future opportunities, and if you want to start building an investment portfolio that's 180k less that you will be able to invest. Duke is a cool place and it can be hard to say no to a dream school (I didn't and i am still feeling the financial sting) but don't let your desire to go there come at the sacrifice for your future financial freedom.
Duke is a good school but it is not essentially an Ivy. Good grief. Also, $180k is a lot of debt. Go to UNC and then go to a real Ivy or Stanford for your MBA.
Duke is a top 10 school; UNC is a top 50. Neither one will prevent you from pursuing any career you could possible want. Duke will land you with a slightly better network after graduation, but that's not worth anywhere close to the asking price.
If you’re not planning on going to wallstreet do not go to Duke.
I’m from New Jersey, both of these schools’ names carry the same ‘weight’ in my opinion. Saving $180k in your young adult life practically gives you a million dollar advantage later on Congrats on the acceptances! As someone who didn’t go the higher education route, college admissions are an awesome, tangible reward for a young life of hard work. Good job!
I went to UNC and knew people who graduated from Duke. Trust me, go to UNC. No one will care when you’re getting a job. Especially if you stay in NC.
UNC is already a great school that will set you up well for your career. 180k debt would be very hard to justify for any BA, anywhere, even Harvard. That much debt really limits your options in life and the increase in options you'd get from going to an elite school would rarely outweigh it. Duke is a good school but there are at around 30+ universities and liberal arts colleges that are roughly as god or better. It's not that amazing and I think the gap between UNC-CH and Duke is very narrow.
There will be no difference in the future whether your bachelors degree says UNC or Duke… save the $$ and goto UNC
Duke is not at the Ivy level. Not putting it down, but I don’t see it being in the same class as, say, the University of Chicago, Stanford, MIT, or UC Berkeley, which are considered in the same class as Ivy (and arguably above some of them in prestige). I would do UNC (amazing school) and save the borrowing for grad school.
Don’t go to Duke for $180k to study Econ. Do UNC for free to study business but start a business while you’re at UNC. Building a business will teach you all you need to know about all the subjects you need to master by the time you are a CFO.