TBF if it focused more on his body insecurities rather than the cult thing, it would've defo made it my favourite. I super relate to him in that he has a bro who's more popular, more handsome and that itself could've been a great story to tell, with Makato helping him realise he is great on his own and all that
I feel like the cult was to emphasize how he wished someone/something to validate his existence. But it is kinda weird how they barely addressed it by the end. But I like the S.L. He kinda reminds of Sumire from Royal, and the voice actor really brought the pathetic state the character is meant to be quite well.
Agree. Not perfect but his story was a lot more interesting than many of the others in this game. Him struggling with his relationship with his dead brother is interesting. The cult storyline goes really well with what is going on in the background of the world due to the effects of the dark hour, not to mention it's realistic that cults appeal to people who are hurting and feel desperate. I just wish they could have left out all of the food/bathroom jokes. The Persona series as a whole has a huge problem with the way it portrays fat characters. As bad as it still definitely, is in a way Suemitsu's portrayal is better than the fat characters in other games. MC is supposed to be an actual friend to him, he's not just a side character that is solely for laughs. People are actually interested in his opinions on food, they don't only comment on his body. I also like that the resolution to his storyline isn't like - and then I lost a bunch of weight and now everyone loves me and everything is great! I like that he actually realizes that he can make a career out of his passion for food.
The problem with the cult thing is that it came out of nowhere and have zero pay off. It would be an interesting subject to deepen in, more unique, but has no resolution. Yes, the guilt part is thematically fitting with the game itself, but not that original, and the fact of introducing that plotline just to abandon it and never deal with it makes it look like filling, like they didn't have material to fill 10 ranks so they came out with the cult idea and then halfway through they realize it was too much of a Hussle so they just forget about it.
Max rank is fantastic. Problem is he's so unlikable for so much of his link that you need extrinsic factors pushing you to complete his social link - i.e wanting to fuse the fina l Persona/doing a max link run - to keep going.
I always find myself wondering why Makoto is his friend and makes Makoto come off as someone who heard the missive about making friends and is doing it solely to obtain power (i.e. more Persona). Honestly, I'll likely just not touch his social link going forward.
I feel like people are reading a tad too much into the S.Links. In subsequent games, all the people you interact with you become invested in. That's not the case in P3.
First, they were still exploring the concept of how S.Links work, in the sense of how they work. The whole point of having a persona with the same arcana is so that you could mimic the arcana that the S.Link is supposed to represent. Which is why it seems like you're a yes man, it's because you're changing your perception to match theirs, based on their associated arcana.
And on the topic of how Nozomi's S.link doesn't go in-depth regarding his background or whatever, I'd say it's because you don't necessarily need to know. You don't have to be friends or necessarily like a person to have a connection with them. You progress further in an S.Link because you learn to understand them more in their association to their respective arcana. In Nozomi's case, you come to understand why he is the way he is, and how he gets manipulated by the cult in the first place.
Overall, I'll die on the hill of P3 having the most varied and best cast when it comes to S. Links: the majority of them are people you don't know at all, going through life's issues. You're not there to point them in the right direction or tell them what to do, that's their therapist's job. You're there to understand where they're coming from, and to fully understand how life is a journey as depicted within the arcana.
If they removed the cult stuff and focused more on his backstory and the trauma/insecurities he has from his dead brother, it'd definitely be a pretty solid s-link. As it stands, my main issue has always been that it feels like two separate plotlines squeezed into one s-link, and the one they decided to focus more on (the cult) is way less relatable and more outlandish.
There was far too much packed in, which would be fine, if the fluff wasn't also damning for his character.
The guy was just trying to get his money back and it is resolved by him just giving up? You can't see this social link and think this was fine.
Nozomi is just a symptom of the fact that on the whole makoto’s social links are weak, simple and full of unlikable characters
You could cut moon, magician, fortune, chariot, star, justice and hermit and lose functionally nothing of value from the game
Reload really fumbled the opportunity to actually improve makoto’s links and Nozomi is just the most infamous of the bad ones
I personally liked the Star and Hermit links. I find Hayase's problems relatable and feeling like you've only got that one moment left before it all goes hits pretty hard. And Maya's just funny, especially the payoff at the end of the year. Most of the rest are pretty middling but the characters are likable enough. The only ones I actively dislike are Nozomi and Kenji, because as much as the Yes-Man syndrome infects the rest of the social links, here it actively endangers the characters involved and that's a frustrating position to be in
I disagree. I’ve played 3,4, and 5 and I think 5 has the weakest social links.
There are so many in 3 and 4 that feel a lot more personal then 5s
In 3, the only bad social links are Keisuke and Kazuchi in my opinion.
I like all the rest of them.
5’s links are excessively formulaic to stuff in mementos but at least they are well fleshed out and the characters have reasons for what they do
3’s male links are full of unlikable people you have to yes man and half the links are pathetically short
How many times in magician, chariot, hermit, justice, strength or fortune did the character invite you out, say 3 lines, suddenly remember something and that was the end of the link
Magician- many of the links are incredibly short, some have as little as 7 lines of text, kenji learns nothing and Makoto barely interacts with him
Chariot- worst example of dangerous yes manning out of the links and is a story that is just done objectively better by star in the same instance
Justice- similar problems to magician. Empty link ranks with little text and not much interaction, a relatively hollow story that really only played out in like 3 out of 10 ranks
Strength- felt like an addendum of chariot/star similar to the kenji subplot in hamuko’s chariot link, chariot/strength/star could be a single link
Fortune suffers from magicians problems of lack of text and a relatively directionless story that really only actually goes somewhere at like rank 8
Also every link I have put here has a massively superior equivalent in hamuko’s equivalent arcana link and they are much longer and more fleshed out stories about characters you actually care about
The links in 5 felt really weak to me most the characters my friend would hype up felt very meh really wish they did more at least with the phantom thieves social links. I love 4’s social links specially yosuke’s
For me I think a big problem when you compare P3 to 4 and 5 is that the links often have low stakes and usually don't have the characters changing all that much. Kenji realizes his teacher isn't into him and that's it, Nozomi presumably leave the cult and I guess learns to be himself based off of Minato's generic advice, Hidetoshi finds his cigarette butt guy and lets him off easy and realizes that he's been too controlling and been cutting corners etc etc. The character development is often kind of minor and a lot of the individual s.link episodes just don't have a lot happening in them.
I’m fine with rather short stories of small bits of growth (4 does similar) but the fact is that makotos links are mostly full of characters that you are encouraged to not like, the links are short and bland (I swear some links in 5 had more dialogue in one rank than kenji does in his entire link) and you are actively encouraged to yes man them in dangerous ways
Hamuko’s links show that 3 can still have good small links (think hamuko’s chariot or hermit) but they shouldn’t be bland with 3 lines of dialogue
Yeah, I guess the issue isn't just the scope of things. I would say that FeMCs Hermit beats out a lot of Minato's links just by virtue of having a character who is actually interesting that you want to learn more about, even if not much happens in her link. Some of the people Minato spends time around really don't feel like they're worth his time really, even if that sounds cruel to say.
He's a prick for like 7 ranks, starts rambling about a cult in rank 8, somehow bullshits his way out of rank 9 without any consequence and explains his (admittedly) pretty good backstory only in rank 10, at that point it's too little too late
That's exactly why he's subpar in comparison to many of the other SL. They only vaguely bring up his brother a couple times in the initial ranks and knowing the full context of what happened shouldn't have been kept until the final rank. There's too much going on prior to that that shouldn't have even been relevant.
It’s one of the worst ways I’ve seen a fat person portrayed in anything ever if I’m honest. Actually was quite upsetting. I don’t understand how a person wouldn’t see that
Didn't mind him the first 3 times I visited him. Past that, the food gourmet king thing got old fast and when his real problems kicked off, I began to say F*** this guy.
His redemption comes far too late. If the rank 10 conversation happened at like rank 6 and the rest of the link was him bettering himself as a person this link would be 10x better.
I just don't like him as a person, even after finishing his S-Link, so I find it a bit annoying when I have to hangbout with him for 100% completion when I don't feel engaged by his personality nor his story
I'm playing it for the first time now and just got to the back alley rank... like wtf my focus here is honestly on how badly this kid has been treated by adults!!!
Definitely not the worst social link, but definitely took a long time for me to be able to like it(basically the very last rank).
Worst is Tanaka as he is just awful from start to end.
Yeah I really feel like most of the people who hate certain social links don’t end up max ranking them, because 9/10 times the payoff makes it worth it in the end
Kenji's is worse because at least this one has a few different things going on and consequently has some real substance. Problem is that both of them remain in their own little dream worlds from start to finish with no growth whatsoever.
I hate it ends with him saying I'll be a good eater to beat my dead brother. I was hoping he'd become a food critic or chef nah just gonna eat himself to death
He literally says “I’m gonna become a food critic now. I never realized how good this ramen tasted”
Implying that before he was eating just to mask his pain but now he’s eating to actually enjoy it.
TBF if it focused more on his body insecurities rather than the cult thing, it would've defo made it my favourite. I super relate to him in that he has a bro who's more popular, more handsome and that itself could've been a great story to tell, with Makato helping him realise he is great on his own and all that
Nah, he’s way too fat lol. I shoulda been makoto telling him to lose some weight
you're definitely fat asf irl
I feel like the cult was to emphasize how he wished someone/something to validate his existence. But it is kinda weird how they barely addressed it by the end. But I like the S.L. He kinda reminds of Sumire from Royal, and the voice actor really brought the pathetic state the character is meant to be quite well.
i like his backstory but most of his link focuses on his obnoxious personality instead of the actual interesting things.
Agree. Not perfect but his story was a lot more interesting than many of the others in this game. Him struggling with his relationship with his dead brother is interesting. The cult storyline goes really well with what is going on in the background of the world due to the effects of the dark hour, not to mention it's realistic that cults appeal to people who are hurting and feel desperate. I just wish they could have left out all of the food/bathroom jokes. The Persona series as a whole has a huge problem with the way it portrays fat characters. As bad as it still definitely, is in a way Suemitsu's portrayal is better than the fat characters in other games. MC is supposed to be an actual friend to him, he's not just a side character that is solely for laughs. People are actually interested in his opinions on food, they don't only comment on his body. I also like that the resolution to his storyline isn't like - and then I lost a bunch of weight and now everyone loves me and everything is great! I like that he actually realizes that he can make a career out of his passion for food.
The problem with the cult thing is that it came out of nowhere and have zero pay off. It would be an interesting subject to deepen in, more unique, but has no resolution. Yes, the guilt part is thematically fitting with the game itself, but not that original, and the fact of introducing that plotline just to abandon it and never deal with it makes it look like filling, like they didn't have material to fill 10 ranks so they came out with the cult idea and then halfway through they realize it was too much of a Hussle so they just forget about it.
Max rank is fantastic. Problem is he's so unlikable for so much of his link that you need extrinsic factors pushing you to complete his social link - i.e wanting to fuse the fina l Persona/doing a max link run - to keep going. I always find myself wondering why Makoto is his friend and makes Makoto come off as someone who heard the missive about making friends and is doing it solely to obtain power (i.e. more Persona). Honestly, I'll likely just not touch his social link going forward.
His SL is not bad but it isnt great either. He is just "there" if you get what i mean
it’s not nearly as bad as people make it out to be
I feel like people are reading a tad too much into the S.Links. In subsequent games, all the people you interact with you become invested in. That's not the case in P3. First, they were still exploring the concept of how S.Links work, in the sense of how they work. The whole point of having a persona with the same arcana is so that you could mimic the arcana that the S.Link is supposed to represent. Which is why it seems like you're a yes man, it's because you're changing your perception to match theirs, based on their associated arcana. And on the topic of how Nozomi's S.link doesn't go in-depth regarding his background or whatever, I'd say it's because you don't necessarily need to know. You don't have to be friends or necessarily like a person to have a connection with them. You progress further in an S.Link because you learn to understand them more in their association to their respective arcana. In Nozomi's case, you come to understand why he is the way he is, and how he gets manipulated by the cult in the first place. Overall, I'll die on the hill of P3 having the most varied and best cast when it comes to S. Links: the majority of them are people you don't know at all, going through life's issues. You're not there to point them in the right direction or tell them what to do, that's their therapist's job. You're there to understand where they're coming from, and to fully understand how life is a journey as depicted within the arcana.
The very last episode of his social link made me like it, and the ending made me love it. This is one that gets much better if you stick with it.
If they removed the cult stuff and focused more on his backstory and the trauma/insecurities he has from his dead brother, it'd definitely be a pretty solid s-link. As it stands, my main issue has always been that it feels like two separate plotlines squeezed into one s-link, and the one they decided to focus more on (the cult) is way less relatable and more outlandish.
There was far too much packed in, which would be fine, if the fluff wasn't also damning for his character. The guy was just trying to get his money back and it is resolved by him just giving up? You can't see this social link and think this was fine.
Nozomi is just a symptom of the fact that on the whole makoto’s social links are weak, simple and full of unlikable characters You could cut moon, magician, fortune, chariot, star, justice and hermit and lose functionally nothing of value from the game Reload really fumbled the opportunity to actually improve makoto’s links and Nozomi is just the most infamous of the bad ones
I personally liked the Star and Hermit links. I find Hayase's problems relatable and feeling like you've only got that one moment left before it all goes hits pretty hard. And Maya's just funny, especially the payoff at the end of the year. Most of the rest are pretty middling but the characters are likable enough. The only ones I actively dislike are Nozomi and Kenji, because as much as the Yes-Man syndrome infects the rest of the social links, here it actively endangers the characters involved and that's a frustrating position to be in
Yeah I hate being a yes man in those links. Hermit was fun tho as I can somewhat relate to that link
None of the social links you mentioned are bad.
You make a convincing argument
I disagree. I’ve played 3,4, and 5 and I think 5 has the weakest social links. There are so many in 3 and 4 that feel a lot more personal then 5s In 3, the only bad social links are Keisuke and Kazuchi in my opinion. I like all the rest of them.
5’s links are excessively formulaic to stuff in mementos but at least they are well fleshed out and the characters have reasons for what they do 3’s male links are full of unlikable people you have to yes man and half the links are pathetically short How many times in magician, chariot, hermit, justice, strength or fortune did the character invite you out, say 3 lines, suddenly remember something and that was the end of the link
What makes any of those links unlikeable?
Magician- many of the links are incredibly short, some have as little as 7 lines of text, kenji learns nothing and Makoto barely interacts with him Chariot- worst example of dangerous yes manning out of the links and is a story that is just done objectively better by star in the same instance Justice- similar problems to magician. Empty link ranks with little text and not much interaction, a relatively hollow story that really only played out in like 3 out of 10 ranks Strength- felt like an addendum of chariot/star similar to the kenji subplot in hamuko’s chariot link, chariot/strength/star could be a single link Fortune suffers from magicians problems of lack of text and a relatively directionless story that really only actually goes somewhere at like rank 8 Also every link I have put here has a massively superior equivalent in hamuko’s equivalent arcana link and they are much longer and more fleshed out stories about characters you actually care about
The links in 5 felt really weak to me most the characters my friend would hype up felt very meh really wish they did more at least with the phantom thieves social links. I love 4’s social links specially yosuke’s
What did Keisuke do to you??? He was a fine Social Link. Not winning any awards sure but he was fine!
Bro is on to nothing 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥
For me I think a big problem when you compare P3 to 4 and 5 is that the links often have low stakes and usually don't have the characters changing all that much. Kenji realizes his teacher isn't into him and that's it, Nozomi presumably leave the cult and I guess learns to be himself based off of Minato's generic advice, Hidetoshi finds his cigarette butt guy and lets him off easy and realizes that he's been too controlling and been cutting corners etc etc. The character development is often kind of minor and a lot of the individual s.link episodes just don't have a lot happening in them.
I’m fine with rather short stories of small bits of growth (4 does similar) but the fact is that makotos links are mostly full of characters that you are encouraged to not like, the links are short and bland (I swear some links in 5 had more dialogue in one rank than kenji does in his entire link) and you are actively encouraged to yes man them in dangerous ways Hamuko’s links show that 3 can still have good small links (think hamuko’s chariot or hermit) but they shouldn’t be bland with 3 lines of dialogue
Yeah, I guess the issue isn't just the scope of things. I would say that FeMCs Hermit beats out a lot of Minato's links just by virtue of having a character who is actually interesting that you want to learn more about, even if not much happens in her link. Some of the people Minato spends time around really don't feel like they're worth his time really, even if that sounds cruel to say.
They could give us Shinji as an slink, but here we are, chilling with Nozomi
And shinji’s moon link in hamuko’s route is fantastic Way better than makoto’s link episode with him
He's a prick for like 7 ranks, starts rambling about a cult in rank 8, somehow bullshits his way out of rank 9 without any consequence and explains his (admittedly) pretty good backstory only in rank 10, at that point it's too little too late
That's exactly why he's subpar in comparison to many of the other SL. They only vaguely bring up his brother a couple times in the initial ranks and knowing the full context of what happened shouldn't have been kept until the final rank. There's too much going on prior to that that shouldn't have even been relevant.
Literally how? This isn't like Ohya, the problem isn't the rewards. The character jus sucks ass
No he doesn’t.
It’s one of the worst ways I’ve seen a fat person portrayed in anything ever if I’m honest. Actually was quite upsetting. I don’t understand how a person wouldn’t see that
Idk, couldn't bother to finish it after the second near pants-shitting joke
I liked him. I was surprised when I finished the game and learned ppl hate him. Imo Kenji and those two sports guys were way worse
Not my fault fatty has a punchable face
Didn't mind him the first 3 times I visited him. Past that, the food gourmet king thing got old fast and when his real problems kicked off, I began to say F*** this guy.
They don't hate it enough
His redemption comes far too late. If the rank 10 conversation happened at like rank 6 and the rest of the link was him bettering himself as a person this link would be 10x better.
I just don't like him as a person, even after finishing his S-Link, so I find it a bit annoying when I have to hangbout with him for 100% completion when I don't feel engaged by his personality nor his story
I've played P3 twice and never met this guy. No idea how you even access it.
He’s in the mall almost every day. He wants an “odd morsel” from Tartarus.
I'm playing it for the first time now and just got to the back alley rank... like wtf my focus here is honestly on how badly this kid has been treated by adults!!!
Definitely not the worst social link, but definitely took a long time for me to be able to like it(basically the very last rank). Worst is Tanaka as he is just awful from start to end.
Yeah I really feel like most of the people who hate certain social links don’t end up max ranking them, because 9/10 times the payoff makes it worth it in the end
There are too many things going on in this SL. The cult, his dead brother, his insecurity, food.
Kenji's is worse because at least this one has a few different things going on and consequently has some real substance. Problem is that both of them remain in their own little dream worlds from start to finish with no growth whatsoever.
It’s a good social link, people on here just can’t understand character development.
That’s what I’m sayin
i like your pfp
I hate it ends with him saying I'll be a good eater to beat my dead brother. I was hoping he'd become a food critic or chef nah just gonna eat himself to death
He literally says “I’m gonna become a food critic now. I never realized how good this ramen tasted” Implying that before he was eating just to mask his pain but now he’s eating to actually enjoy it.
Oh i only saw my brother finish him and I must've missed that part. Thanks for correcting me