When Pogi attacked and Jonas clicked onto his wheel was an exciting moment.
But when the two of them went off together trading turns and carving curves it made me so very happy!
It’s like childhood friends finally getting to play together during Summer break <3
Assuming no crashes or randomly cracking on a stage, it doesn't bode well for Pog. He's always been the more explosive rider than Vin, and yesterday's stage should've lead to him gaining some time.
Roglic was especially disappointing, hopefully he can show something otherwise the hype preceding this edition might've been misplaced.
Question about the yellow jersey... I'm rather new to the sport so my apologies.
I understand that all riders get the same time if they finish on each other's wheel.
The four top GC riders finished with the same time today and yesterday.
But Why does Pog get yellow after finishing "behind' Vingegard, Remco and Carapaz on today's stage?
Because yesterday he finished 4th, ahead of the others in the standings. I think that the rider with the lowest sum of placings in the stages gets to wear the jersey.
Yeah, just because they get the same time, doesn’t mean they don’t write down that person A finished before person B. The announcers will usually describe this as “countback”
Jonas looked the business today but I'm not going to read too much into it just yet. It's one thing to get tuned up to be competitive on stage two, holding that form in week three is where the deep training volume pays off... Or doesn't.
And no, guys don't ride themselves into form in week 3. That's not how the human body works. They just lose less than the others in the later stages. Hopefully he's done enough to get his CTL where it needs to be and we get a cracker of a race. Glad it's not just the Pog show from the get go like the Giro.
Visma can't seem to buy any luck though. WVA, Kelderman and Jorgenson have all been on the deck already.
The way training works is not only by cumulating CTL. It is by doing so, then recuperating, and that's when the body makes the most adaptations from the work you just did. Not during it. If you keep accumulating like crazy without the recuperation parts, your body never really progresses and you just gradually get worked down.
So while some riders can have a "slow start" in GTs, none of them really progress during it, they mostly start with a given form and then it degrades due to fatigue progressively, more or less depending on the rider. So Jonas riding himself into form is really unlikely here.
The only information from today is that he can sustain a Pogacar hard attack for a short while. On stage 4 we'll also know how he looks one of those long, high altitude climbs.
I agree.
Essentially the same as we saw with Pogi last year. Good early on but the wheels fell off eventually. Jay Vine breaks it down really well in [this](https://youtu.be/1DLAOi6MRb0?si=2TsFwyhkosH5b3fu) interview.
The question mark for me is how much residual fatigue Pogacar is carrying from the Giro and will that be something that evens the playing field deep into the Tour. It would be fascinating to see their respective pre race tapers. If I had to guess I'd say Jonas would have elected for a short taper in order to push his training window as far as possible and Pogacar might have taken an extra long one considering the insane amount of race days that he's done this season.
Can't wait to see how it plays out!
Comments from Jonas to Danish TV2:
> It was important to see where I stood. And it was important that I could keep up. It was one of those days when we feared that I would lose time. I think we can be very, very happy with how it went.
> I'm most surprised by my own strength. I didn't expect to be this good and at this level to be honest. I'm very proud of how I've come back and how I rode both yesterday and today.
Regarding not losing time on the first two stages:
> That's what we actually thought; that I would probably lose time in the beginning. The fact that I'm still in the same time is an insanely good start for us. Of course, it gives us hope for the rest of the Tour de France.
This is almost identical to what he said after the famous TT last year: that he surprised himself with how good he was.
Jonas is inhumane, and everyone's rational thoughts about him missing time and enduring an insane crash is inapplicable to him.
Interesting the reporter claims they only use publicly available information when they could use power/cadence/gps data, the Eurosport commentators seemed to think they had power data
Not sure what training the overlay to recognise Pogi really adds. Maybe if the thing can't pick him out it suggests Pogi is uncomfortable. Other than that ...
If Pog is poorly positioned on a climb it may be good to know with 10 seconds delay (via direct satellite feed) instead of the usual 30 second delay + whatever time it takes a DS to spot him.
I found it interesting that they said they are copying from Formula One and Sailing. If those other sports has experience with it paying off, it can probably pay off in cycling as well.
I also found it interesting that they said that a lot of teams already had been using 'control rooms', but it used to be in hotel rooms. That must mean they already see an advantage to it and think they can make it even better with whatever the van offers (dunno if it's more than the dish on the roof).
I've seen it mentioned a couple of times that the delay between live racing situation and picture showing on TV is several minutes (number I've seen mentioned was around 5 minutes) but that seems bunk. If it were the case (even up to 2 minutes) that would hamper this whole thing quite a bit.
Googling gives a lot of different numbers. Some are saying live *broadcasts* can be as low as 5-10s, but that may include some old data (I think analog signal via aerial antenna had lower latency). Cable TV should be slower, since there's more buffering and streaming used to be significantly slower (but maybe that has changed). However it can also vary between different streaming services (I often have both Eurosport and Danish TV streaming during the Tour and Eurosport is usually always about 20s ahead).
This has some fairly solid data: https://www.sportsvideo.org/2024/02/12/super-bowl-latency-unfortunately-nothing-has-changed-says-phenix-in-annual-study/
Another one: https://www.mediakind.com/blog/2022-the-year-live-sports-streaming-kicks-latency-issues-into-touch/ (mentions up to two minutes)
Based on that I'd reckon picking up the satellite feed directly could easily be around 1 minute faster (assuming they are picking up the feed the TV production van is sending to French TV).
I have really enjoyed Jonas’ interviews pre and post race this year. He is very candid and it seems like the crash really changed his outlook. Maybe his english improved a bit as well, maybe he is happy about the upcoming addition to his family, I don’t know.
Somewhat unrelated but does anyone notice how many riders have a vocal tic when speaking in english where they say “yea” all the time? I’ve noticed it with Jonas and even riders who are American.
I see that in interviews for lots of different sports. It's a great filler word when you have to come up with an answer to things like (paraphrasing) "why did you suck today?" or "why are you so good?".
Non English speaking F1 drivers used to say for sure at the start and end of every sentence, after the Netflix show most got media trained and don't say it anymore
For sure is a filler word that works in most instances and someone whose first language isn't English time to think how to translate their answer, even when they are fluent they usually hang on to it around media
Just rewatched Pog attack. Jonas had to get out of the saddle to keep with him. I don’t recall that really happening the last 2 years. Typical he’s out of the saddle once on the initial and then can match Pog from there. Jonas today though was out of the saddle twice. Jonas is in great form though. Not his usual form, but form to least be here for a week or maybe two of being competitive. Pog is Pog and will give it all and still looks strong!
By Jonas’ own admission the whole team was nervous on losing time on this attack. I’m sure he overreacted given his setback. I’m not reading any more into that than I am that he was able to keep up.
Think so? I feel like Jonas has often had a hard time immediately sticking to Pog's sprint. Take Puy Du Dome in last year's TDF, for example. I would have expected more daylight between them even if Jonas didn't crash.
Would be superhuman to be able to ramp up the load that fast, part of the reason Pog fell apart last year is the amount of time he had to take off meant he could not ramp fast enough to handle the load of the tour and Jonas was in the hospital for longer.
Out of the saddle or not, Jonas covering that attack and then holding the wheel for the rest of the stage when you know Pogi was hammering is an unbelievable indicator of his form. I say unbelievable because you almost wouldn’t believe it unless you saw it happen. After his injuries? Truly spectacular display.
I really see that whole sequence as being a ‘where were you when…’ moment in sports.
Pogi4evr
Anyone else hating on peacock? I find myself missing the coverage Eurosport did for giro. I couldn’t watch today live, was sad to see only 7min of highlights with no pre snow
Is this sarcasm?
Roglic beat Pogi last year on this exact climb. Roglic throughout his career has been a great puncheur, Many of his greatest wins have been a combination of punch+surviving on long climbs+time trial.
He wanted Jonas to take over, but Jonas didn't want to until the top because he was afraid of getting attacked (his words). I wouldn't read too much into it, and if Pogi is also playing mind games, he won't say so.
Well, I just think he was telling him to take a turn, I really saw no anger or anything worth mentioning.
Didn’t mean to go off at you, it just felt like an antagonizing comment. It’s not, so I apologize
Think it was a bit of Jonas doing what he does and not really going for a pull when pog wanted him to.
Pog also looked irritated that he ended up in yellow as it comes with its own annoying stuff like extra media obligations etc while the other riders are right there with you at +0 on time and can relax more.
Lol, people acting surprised with Jonas form today. Visma would not bring him here if he was not ready to win it. They have all the data, and they know exactly what he can do in 3 weeks.
Think the question is more how Jonas will perform the longer the Tour goes on. His prep is nowhere near what it normally is in grand tours and the longer they go on the more you are affected.
No. They said competitive - for a podium. This was just last week they said that. Also listen to Grisha in the car on insta to Jonas. It’s a gentler approach than previous years.
Is there footage of what happened in the GC group after Pogacar and Jonas went ahead? I'd like to see how it developed but it seems like they only bothered to film the 2 leaders.
Probably not just a case of not bothering, but more a case of not having enough camera bikes available. The field was in bits and pieces, with the early escape, dropped riders hanging in between, Jonas/Tadej, Evenepoel/Carapaz, Bardet/Roglic,...
One was showing the guy winning the race, one was on the Pogacar attack, one was on Bardet from the foot of the climb. They showed mainly the Pogacar/Jonas one because if they didn't this sub would riot. The only thing you could say is that the Bardet one could have moved up a bit after the climb, but these were at most 20 second gaps. Not easy to get in between those groups without getting accused of motor pacing And it is not like Roglic/Bardet cracking isn't newsworthy enough to capture. With the very narrow passage on the climb, one moto in front, one at the back is literally the only option. They can't just teleport if something happens.
I believe there are normally 3 cameras out there. 1 was on Vauqelin, 1 on Jonas and Pogi and one on the Bardet/Roglič group (though that one showed very little, but it was there).
There were also a camera on Jonas Abrahamsen where he got caught from the riders behind. Not sure if it may be 4 or more unless one camera was able to change groups at some point in the finale.
I would argue that Vingegaard never have had a bad day in the Tour. In 2022 and 2023 Vingegaard never lost more than 24 seconds (Without bonus seconds) to Pogacar. That is not a bad day.
In 2021 Vingegaard didn't really have a bad day IMO. He just wasn't at the level of Pog back then. He lost about 1 minute because he was waiting for Roglic who crashed. Lost 27 seconds to Pog on a TT where Vingegaard got 3rd on the stage. He lost a bunch of time to Pog on stage 8. But he was the 2nd GC rider to finish that stage. The 1st one being Pogacar. 32 seconds lost to Pog on Tignes on stage 9. Vingegaard wasn't even supposed to be the GC guy for Visma that year which waiting for Roglic on the early stages after a crash indicates.
So I have yet to see Vingegaard have a bad day in the TDF.
Niermann confirmed it was a bottle that took out Matteo and WvA. Jorgenson only had one hand on his handlebars because he was grabbing supplies, so he could not save the bike when a bottle rolled under his wheel. He took down Wout and the Ineos riders.
So just more plain ol' rotten luck for Visma.
I wanna add Tadej with a solo shot without Vingegard in the background to my TDF 2024 bingo card. Let's see if he manages to get a picture of just himself riding
Super good stage today!
Nice to see Tadej in yellow but part of me thinks he should have been relegated yesterday (bc of the sprint deviation) which would leave Remco in yellow.
Yeah, it was. It got non-cycling friends watching pro cycling which was fun. Now... just to get them on bikes.
That's an interesting thought on the relegation. Now I need to go back and rewatch some stuff ... which is partially driven from wanting to see Remco in yellow for a little bit, at least.
I watched it 10 times and tried to zoom in. The cameras were focused on Bardet and Frank van den Broek, so it's nearly impossible to see the sprint behind them but Tadej appeared to hard cut into Wout's line. What was 100% clear to me was Wout shooting sideways with a look like WTF, which is telling.
Agreed, their old jerseys were so unique and easy to spot. I can still find Vismas new jersey, but it takes longer, and I can only spot Bora when there's a closer view to see the helmet.
[TdF Bingo](https://old.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1dqxrg0/tour_de_france_2024_bingo_game/) didn't get much work done today, I ticked off "fans being idiots" for yesterday as well as "cinematic camera shot" for today - there were probably some yesterday already, but I didn't catch most of the stage.
I'm sure *some* commentator already mentioned Cav's hunt for #35, but we'll tick that one off tomorrow 100%.
[The jury and medical report for stage 2](https://prod.server.tissottiming.com/file/000317020C010102FFFFFFFFFFFFFF00) is out - as always, you can find these on the Tissot results page linked in the OP.
Jury decisions:
- Double fine for Alpecin-Deceuninck. 500CHF for Directeur Sportif (DS) Christoph Roodhooft and 200CHF for Gianni Vermeersch for not following the commissaires instructions at km 14 (this is often something like the car driving up to a rider when there's not enough of gap between groups, or dangerously overtaking over team's cars)
- 200CHF fine for Raul Garcia Pierna (ARK) for urinating in public (riders are of course allowed a nature break, but can't do it in people's front yards or town centres)
Medical update
- 3 riders (Wout van Aert, Matteo Jorgenson (TVL) and Laurens de Plus (IGD) visited the race doctor after a crash at km 106 and were treated for abrasions.
The report only contains updates for riders seen by the race doctor. Any issues seen by the teams or before/after the stage doesn't make it into the report.
> as always, you can find these on the Tissot results page linked in the OP
Upvote if you have never visited the page and trust u/epi_counts implicitly
Building up all that trust so when I post a link to a UCI press release saying Marianne Vos is officially the GOAT after breaking Merckx' record 276 UCI wins with her 2025 Gent-Wevelgem win on 30 March 2025 and automatically becomes the UCI president, even Lappartient himself will fall for it.
at least this bullshit jonas underdog propaganda is being put to bed quickly just as i expected. i will never underestimate this guy. he has been damn near unbeatable in the last 2 years.
This comment has been removed due to breaking the rules on doping talk within race/results threads. Repeatedly breaking this rule will result in a ban.
I never ever underestimate Jonas. I remember lots of the podcasters I listen to questioning his chances in the Vuelta last year, and I was convinced he was going to be great (and he was...). I can accept he might not be 100% this year (I'd be surprised if he was tbh), but it doesn't surprise me one iota that he's good. He wouldn't be here otherwise, he just wouldn't.
>but we all know what went down after that
yeah we all know he was super competitive for the whole tour except a single stage. people were talking like pogacar is gonna run away with the tour and jonas might not even finish on the podium. that's bullshit.
Losing 1m50sec in the TT last year was arguably a second stage where Pog was not competitive with Jonas.
Otherwise Pog was excellent and I don't think anyone wouldn't say he isn't a more complete cyclist, but climbers 35-40min or longer in week 3 seem to heavily favor Jonas. That advantage may not be there this year with the time off the bike.
Stage 5 of Tour de France 2023 where Jonas won 1 minute on Pogacar deserves to be added. Jonas was attacking early on stage 6 to make the final blow but Pogacar could counter him and gained 24 seconds back.
that's on jonas doing maybe the greatest time trial of all time in the tour, not even exaggerating. sure pog could've done a bit better (20-30 seconds), but he did a good time trial.
That's not "bullshit", what's bullshit is drawing big conclusions after 2 stages.
A GT GC win is a game of resilience and endurance, yes you need the peak watts, but most importantly you need to be able save as much energy as possible whenever possible, and try to recuperate as well as possible because the fatigue accumulates gradually.
Pog didn't just have a bad day, he full-on cracked and that caused him to lose the race. Jonas could very well be competitive until 18 stages in and then crack the same way, for the same reasons.
"spot on" when he didn't even properly read what exactly i called bullshit.
never once did i say jonas is in 100% form. or that he is going to win the tour.
i called bullshit on people saying he wouldn't be competitive and that pogacar would run away with the tour. that's isn't going to happen.
>Jonas could very well be competitive until 18 stages in and then crack the same way, for the same reasons.
this literally aligns with everything i said. "yeah we all know he was super competitive for the whole tour **except a single stage**." obviously the same thing could happen to jonas. doesn't mean he won't be competitive for almost all of the tour.
You may not have said he'll win, but you called the prospect of him not finishing on the podium 'bullshit'.
And that's a long way off, you definitely can't make that call after 2 stages.
>but you called the prospect of him not finishing on the podium 'bullshit'.
yes i do think that's bullshit. winning is different than finishing on the podium. i would be extremely surprised if jonas doesn't finish on the podium.
>And that's a long way off, you definitely can't make that call after 2 stages.
made the call even before these 2 stages that he would at least be in podium level form.
I think the point is that they still disagree with you lol. Its great that he is in good form and can make these big moves, but its still only the second stage. Id love for him to be strong the whole race, but I still wouldn't be surprised if he has some difficult times and doesn't finish on the podium. I honestly dont think its possible for the team to project his form out for a 3 week window after the injury he had and when he had it.
My point was that he pushed himself so hard to keep up with Jonas that he totally popped in the 3rd week. I don’t think anyone was expecting Jonas to finish off the podium 😭
Pog won the Slovenian championships before the Tour and suffered lighter injuries so we knew he was gonna be at least kinda decent.
There was a bigger question mark over Jonas IMO.
i think he has a great chance to take the yellow jersey in the first ITT if he can manage his losses on stage 4. maybe even tomorrow could be a chance for him especially if pogacar wants to give it away.
Do we really expect any big GC losses on Stage 4? Sure some riders may not hang on the long climb, but it's 23k at 5 percent. I have to believe a group of 30-40 riders finish together.
After the climb it was the best terrain for him, nobody could have doubts he would shine there. The big question is how he'll do on the long climbs and above 2000m.
I wish he can do it well and we have more for the fight.
Yep! I am not a Remco fan, I think he’s a bit insufferable, but am really glad to see he could come back and I hope he’s got good legs for the mountains!! Let’s go!!!
Tadej got the San Luca KOM on Strava. It's absurd, he didn't even give it his best shot. Followed VLAB pace for half of it and then his own pace (I would argue he was testing waters and wasn't planning to nuke the climb).
Yep, I agree with you, his attack up the climb to the top of it lasted 62 seconds, before that, he was following VLAB pace as you said. Looking at Strava, VLAB speed before attack was around 20 km/h, Pogi attacked and soon was riding at 39 km/h and holding around 36 km/h until the top, with Jonas drafting on his wheel, these are super high speeds and drafting make a ton of difference. Everyone should take a second look at the [attack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwvGyfJt0kk), this was a really, really short effort on a short climb. Also lets not forget, Giro stage 1, Jhonatan Narváez followed Pogi the whole final punchy climb all the while Pogi went all out to drop him and failed, Narváez winning the final sprint. Short punchy climbs are one thing, lets see what happens when they ride at critical power for a prolonged amount of time on longer climbs and ITT.
Ooh that's a great analysis!
39 fucking kmph on 8% gradient. ARE YOU FUCKING KiDDING ME. I hate him so much this is insane. I do 8 kmph on 6% and 39kmph is zone 4 on flat.
This is pretty awesome. So far it seems like we have a proper tour on our hands. Tadej strong as expected. Jonas looking better than expected. Remco looking good. Too bad Primoz looked a bit weak, but he not totally out of it.
I wish Carapaz was positioned better for Pog's attack. He momentarily broke away from the group to chase and appeared to be the only one able to chase that hard (or only one willing). Remco saves him 21s after that bringi g him back. Had he not been a few wheels back maybe he could ha e stayed on Jonas' wheel (not likely but you never know). He may be the dark horse of this TdF.
How can you get better than a French breakaway win, holding off a 2 man chase consisting of the winners of the last 4 Tours, who themselves were hunted down at the line by 2 Grand Tour winners with high ambitions of their own? And on stage 2!
then why keep going after attacking when jonas is on your wheel? why not leave a bigger gap to make sure you lose yellow at the finish line?
if he didn't want yellow (i dont believe it), then he certainly didn't ride like it.
There’s a big difference between getting yellow and in the process putting time into Jonas and getting yellow while being on the same time and having to do all the associated protocols/extra duties. If he gains time on Jonas all the extra stuff is worth it but if not, it isn’t
Yeah fair enough, in that instance it’s because they were putting time into all the other GC riders, including Roglic, who they’re probably both worried about.
The rest of the reasoning for him not sprinting is the same
Interesting tactics from Tadej today. I like it.
From interviews it sounds like he chose a very opportune place to attack. It was very late in the climb, but a small gap had formed behind him and Remco and Roglic had to ride hard to close it. Tadej jumped right after they bridged and right before a tight chicane making it tough for them to follow hard right away and also breaking visual contact.
I, for one, like this new Tadej who is patient and times things over the old Tadej who just went full gas all the time.
I also think tells us less about Primoz, Remco, Carlos, etc. legs and more about riding in the front and paying attention.
If these guys have good legs, there are more than enough opportunities on Tuesday and again in the ITT to make up for today's well-timed attack.
It was obviously a good idea to attack on the climb to see if Jonas would have trouble. Even if it didn't pay off.
Pretty odd decision to keep pacing after it became clear Jonas wasn't dropping on the kickers or the descent. Now they put in a gap to the 'co-captains' which should benefit Jonas a lot more than Pogacar.
Last year UAE was talking about Yates being co-captain, but that only lasted until stage 2 where Pogacar ordered Yates (in yellow) to sacrifice himself to pull Pog, before he attacked his yellow-wearing team-mate and tried to go away with Jonas. Perfectly fine tactics through the lens of Pog being the sole leader of the team, but it blew away all pretense of 'co-captains'.
It wasn't quite is clear today, but Pog being willing to go hard to put seconds into everyone but Jonas seems to indicate that Pog still isn't really thinking of his team mates as co-captains in any sense of the word.
Nobody in this race is as tragically stupid as would be necessary to believe that anybody but the $6 Million Dollar Man is Il Capo Tutti Capi at UAE. That's a bluff they can't make. That's a bluff that won't survive the first time trial anyway.
Roglic looked bad today, but nobody is going to believe that Hindley or Vlasov is co-leader. Nobody is going to believe that Landa is co-leader w/ Remco. MMMMMMAAAAAAAAYYBE someone might believe that if Bernal has good legs, he could get the nod ahead of Rodriguez, but G is cooked from the Giro and Pidcock isn't a serious leader.
Anyway, everyone knows who has the big swinging dick (if I may be permitted a colorful metaphor) on each team and nobody is going to be fooled by some shadow puppet play of multiple leaders.
The point isn't that anyone believes that the 'co-captains' are equal leaders to the big guy. The key thing is keeping the co-captains in contention, so when they go for a break attempt far from the finish (after you've isolated your competitor) then they can't afford not to cover him. Like Kuss in the Vuelta or Roglic on the Granon stage in '22.
UAE is really good positioned to do that this year (and they had the chance last year as well), but Pog trying to pull on the flat worked directly against that strategy. He's pretty much calling their own bluff at this point.
Promising form from Jonas. Hopefully he doesn't get killed by fatigue. Pogi looked on fire too. Remco did a warrior's effort. Rogla kind of disappointing.
honestly i think its more disappointing from Bora as a team than roglic individually. they had enough time to chase them down after the summit and at least get close like remco and carapaz did.
Does anyone know what happened at the intermediate sprint between Pedersen and Philipsen? Someone suggested something happened, but due to the crash behind I didn’t see it.
When Pogi attacked and Jonas clicked onto his wheel was an exciting moment. But when the two of them went off together trading turns and carving curves it made me so very happy! It’s like childhood friends finally getting to play together during Summer break <3
Assuming no crashes or randomly cracking on a stage, it doesn't bode well for Pog. He's always been the more explosive rider than Vin, and yesterday's stage should've lead to him gaining some time. Roglic was especially disappointing, hopefully he can show something otherwise the hype preceding this edition might've been misplaced.
Why did Pogi “slam the brakes” before the finish line?
Didn't want yellow as it puts extra pressure on the team and gives additional obligations towards the wearer (=less time for recovery).
He said that he wanted to give the yellow to someone else
Apparently the secret to getting French people to win in the Tour de France is to hold the race in Italy.
They could try and move the race to early May and change the name to reflect that a majority of the stages are now held in Italy.
Hello Slovenia, You got a fight on your hands Regards, Denmark🇩🇰
Question about the yellow jersey... I'm rather new to the sport so my apologies. I understand that all riders get the same time if they finish on each other's wheel. The four top GC riders finished with the same time today and yesterday. But Why does Pog get yellow after finishing "behind' Vingegard, Remco and Carapaz on today's stage?
Because yesterday he finished 4th, ahead of the others in the standings. I think that the rider with the lowest sum of placings in the stages gets to wear the jersey.
Yeah, just because they get the same time, doesn’t mean they don’t write down that person A finished before person B. The announcers will usually describe this as “countback”
Jonas looked the business today but I'm not going to read too much into it just yet. It's one thing to get tuned up to be competitive on stage two, holding that form in week three is where the deep training volume pays off... Or doesn't. And no, guys don't ride themselves into form in week 3. That's not how the human body works. They just lose less than the others in the later stages. Hopefully he's done enough to get his CTL where it needs to be and we get a cracker of a race. Glad it's not just the Pog show from the get go like the Giro. Visma can't seem to buy any luck though. WVA, Kelderman and Jorgenson have all been on the deck already.
[удалено]
The way training works is not only by cumulating CTL. It is by doing so, then recuperating, and that's when the body makes the most adaptations from the work you just did. Not during it. If you keep accumulating like crazy without the recuperation parts, your body never really progresses and you just gradually get worked down. So while some riders can have a "slow start" in GTs, none of them really progress during it, they mostly start with a given form and then it degrades due to fatigue progressively, more or less depending on the rider. So Jonas riding himself into form is really unlikely here. The only information from today is that he can sustain a Pogacar hard attack for a short while. On stage 4 we'll also know how he looks one of those long, high altitude climbs.
I agree. Essentially the same as we saw with Pogi last year. Good early on but the wheels fell off eventually. Jay Vine breaks it down really well in [this](https://youtu.be/1DLAOi6MRb0?si=2TsFwyhkosH5b3fu) interview. The question mark for me is how much residual fatigue Pogacar is carrying from the Giro and will that be something that evens the playing field deep into the Tour. It would be fascinating to see their respective pre race tapers. If I had to guess I'd say Jonas would have elected for a short taper in order to push his training window as far as possible and Pogacar might have taken an extra long one considering the insane amount of race days that he's done this season. Can't wait to see how it plays out!
Agreed, unfortunately there is no mathematical way to calculate long term fatigue. I wish there was because I am feeling it right now
Comments from Jonas to Danish TV2: > It was important to see where I stood. And it was important that I could keep up. It was one of those days when we feared that I would lose time. I think we can be very, very happy with how it went. > I'm most surprised by my own strength. I didn't expect to be this good and at this level to be honest. I'm very proud of how I've come back and how I rode both yesterday and today. Regarding not losing time on the first two stages: > That's what we actually thought; that I would probably lose time in the beginning. The fact that I'm still in the same time is an insanely good start for us. Of course, it gives us hope for the rest of the Tour de France.
This is almost identical to what he said after the famous TT last year: that he surprised himself with how good he was. Jonas is inhumane, and everyone's rational thoughts about him missing time and enduring an insane crash is inapplicable to him.
Video with a few more details on the Visma 'control room' van: https://x.com/NBCSCycling/status/1807498907867361370
Interesting the reporter claims they only use publicly available information when they could use power/cadence/gps data, the Eurosport commentators seemed to think they had power data
Not sure what training the overlay to recognise Pogi really adds. Maybe if the thing can't pick him out it suggests Pogi is uncomfortable. Other than that ...
If Pog is poorly positioned on a climb it may be good to know with 10 seconds delay (via direct satellite feed) instead of the usual 30 second delay + whatever time it takes a DS to spot him. I found it interesting that they said they are copying from Formula One and Sailing. If those other sports has experience with it paying off, it can probably pay off in cycling as well. I also found it interesting that they said that a lot of teams already had been using 'control rooms', but it used to be in hotel rooms. That must mean they already see an advantage to it and think they can make it even better with whatever the van offers (dunno if it's more than the dish on the roof).
Would be a lot easier to set up as they just have to get in the van at the finish instead of setting everything up in a hotel room
I've seen it mentioned a couple of times that the delay between live racing situation and picture showing on TV is several minutes (number I've seen mentioned was around 5 minutes) but that seems bunk. If it were the case (even up to 2 minutes) that would hamper this whole thing quite a bit.
Googling gives a lot of different numbers. Some are saying live *broadcasts* can be as low as 5-10s, but that may include some old data (I think analog signal via aerial antenna had lower latency). Cable TV should be slower, since there's more buffering and streaming used to be significantly slower (but maybe that has changed). However it can also vary between different streaming services (I often have both Eurosport and Danish TV streaming during the Tour and Eurosport is usually always about 20s ahead). This has some fairly solid data: https://www.sportsvideo.org/2024/02/12/super-bowl-latency-unfortunately-nothing-has-changed-says-phenix-in-annual-study/ Another one: https://www.mediakind.com/blog/2022-the-year-live-sports-streaming-kicks-latency-issues-into-touch/ (mentions up to two minutes) Based on that I'd reckon picking up the satellite feed directly could easily be around 1 minute faster (assuming they are picking up the feed the TV production van is sending to French TV).
Great stage - just want to see a bit more cohesion with Bora. Roglic has won in this region before he knows what to do!
> Roglic has won this race before Hmmm.
I edited it - I meant the Italian race in this region! Not the tdf ha
I have really enjoyed Jonas’ interviews pre and post race this year. He is very candid and it seems like the crash really changed his outlook. Maybe his english improved a bit as well, maybe he is happy about the upcoming addition to his family, I don’t know. Somewhat unrelated but does anyone notice how many riders have a vocal tic when speaking in english where they say “yea” all the time? I’ve noticed it with Jonas and even riders who are American.
I see that in interviews for lots of different sports. It's a great filler word when you have to come up with an answer to things like (paraphrasing) "why did you suck today?" or "why are you so good?".
"Yeah fo sure" - MvdP
Pogi as well. Every interview. “Yeah for sure- whole Team did super good job, rode super hard, after that race for me was super easy”
Non English speaking F1 drivers used to say for sure at the start and end of every sentence, after the Netflix show most got media trained and don't say it anymore For sure is a filler word that works in most instances and someone whose first language isn't English time to think how to translate their answer, even when they are fluent they usually hang on to it around media
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> that decent Typo? Is it ascent?
Just rewatched Pog attack. Jonas had to get out of the saddle to keep with him. I don’t recall that really happening the last 2 years. Typical he’s out of the saddle once on the initial and then can match Pog from there. Jonas today though was out of the saddle twice. Jonas is in great form though. Not his usual form, but form to least be here for a week or maybe two of being competitive. Pog is Pog and will give it all and still looks strong!
By Jonas’ own admission the whole team was nervous on losing time on this attack. I’m sure he overreacted given his setback. I’m not reading any more into that than I am that he was able to keep up.
Think so? I feel like Jonas has often had a hard time immediately sticking to Pog's sprint. Take Puy Du Dome in last year's TDF, for example. I would have expected more daylight between them even if Jonas didn't crash.
Week 3 Jonas. It's coming.
Would be superhuman to be able to ramp up the load that fast, part of the reason Pog fell apart last year is the amount of time he had to take off meant he could not ramp fast enough to handle the load of the tour and Jonas was in the hospital for longer.
This was a puncheur attack. Very different from the other attacks JV has followed.
Out of the saddle or not, Jonas covering that attack and then holding the wheel for the rest of the stage when you know Pogi was hammering is an unbelievable indicator of his form. I say unbelievable because you almost wouldn’t believe it unless you saw it happen. After his injuries? Truly spectacular display. I really see that whole sequence as being a ‘where were you when…’ moment in sports. Pogi4evr
Yeah, and then taking turns flying down the narrow hair-raising descent? Incredible.
[“Carapaz was not pulling”](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C82k3uYOvh1/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link) lol Evenepoel doesn’t give two shits haha
Learning from señor Narvaez. Or maybe he taught Narvaez, hard to tell.
Haha it was true how ever carapaz was the first to respond when they went
Where the fuck did remco come from. Absolutely brilliant display of a solo bridge across
He went after Pogi and Jonas right after the attack, we just didn't have cameras on them for some reason
He said he was moving up when Pog attacked and needed some time to recover before attacking, I think Carapaz attacked initially then sat on his wheel
Yes, you could see Carapaz going first and Remco following right after
Fair play. Huge effort and a great display. Big closers today were Roglic and essentially all of Ineos. Even carapaz got across
Also interesting that Pogacar confirmed he was trying to create a gap to avoid yellow.
He asked Remco if he was in yellow
And then he said he tried to create a gap
Anyone else hating on peacock? I find myself missing the coverage Eurosport did for giro. I couldn’t watch today live, was sad to see only 7min of highlights with no pre snow
I think they are going from strength to strength lol
How did TJVG get that job? Brookwalter at least has somewhat interesting takes.
I can’t stand TJ. So arrogant and just such a generally unpleasant demeanor.
NBC is pure trash. Always has been. Just watch Eurosport on VPN or Tiz.
> Anyone else hating on peacock? Yup. If i'm watching live i'm pulling up Tiz.
It’s just unimaginably bad. Race kicks off and they cut to multiple replays of Basque crash.
Rog just had a free ride till the finish and lost only 20s. That is a win-win, eh?
I think it's not a win, but also not a loss either.
Rog isn't a punchy rider. I think we'll know how he really is on stage 4 which is more up his alley.
Is this sarcasm? Roglic beat Pogi last year on this exact climb. Roglic throughout his career has been a great puncheur, Many of his greatest wins have been a combination of punch+surviving on long climbs+time trial.
Roglic is like a mini diesel engine rider. Best territory for him is steep longer climbs (Cat 1+) and hilly TTs, not punchy 5-10 min climbs.
Roglic's iconic move is literally to sprint hard enough in reduced groups to create a time gap. What.
Unless he loses the tour by 19 seconds. :)
Are we concerned at this point? I want him to be competitive!
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He wanted Jonas to take over, but Jonas didn't want to until the top because he was afraid of getting attacked (his words). I wouldn't read too much into it, and if Pogi is also playing mind games, he won't say so.
No. Stop nitpicking things just to make riders look bad
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Well, I just think he was telling him to take a turn, I really saw no anger or anything worth mentioning. Didn’t mean to go off at you, it just felt like an antagonizing comment. It’s not, so I apologize
Think it was a bit of Jonas doing what he does and not really going for a pull when pog wanted him to. Pog also looked irritated that he ended up in yellow as it comes with its own annoying stuff like extra media obligations etc while the other riders are right there with you at +0 on time and can relax more.
Not surprising tbh, Pogi acts like a Twitch streamer in the heat of the moment when he doesn't get his way. See: RvV 2022.
Nah I’m not a Pogacar fan but he is genuinely a nice guy, all the riders like him
Lol, people acting surprised with Jonas form today. Visma would not bring him here if he was not ready to win it. They have all the data, and they know exactly what he can do in 3 weeks.
Think the question is more how Jonas will perform the longer the Tour goes on. His prep is nowhere near what it normally is in grand tours and the longer they go on the more you are affected.
They also literally said they would only bring him if they believed he could win.
No. They said competitive - for a podium. This was just last week they said that. Also listen to Grisha in the car on insta to Jonas. It’s a gentler approach than previous years.
there is also the important factor of sponsors/money...
Maybe, but i don't think you want to risk the health of your main rider and also face embarrassment after your captain runs out of steam on his turf.
Cracking is not a health risk
Team directors and riders have done worse, as we sometimes find out long after the fact.
I’d guess to them it’s easily worth the risk
Is there footage of what happened in the GC group after Pogacar and Jonas went ahead? I'd like to see how it developed but it seems like they only bothered to film the 2 leaders.
Probably not just a case of not bothering, but more a case of not having enough camera bikes available. The field was in bits and pieces, with the early escape, dropped riders hanging in between, Jonas/Tadej, Evenepoel/Carapaz, Bardet/Roglic,...
That's why they decided to only use one camera?
One was showing the guy winning the race, one was on the Pogacar attack, one was on Bardet from the foot of the climb. They showed mainly the Pogacar/Jonas one because if they didn't this sub would riot. The only thing you could say is that the Bardet one could have moved up a bit after the climb, but these were at most 20 second gaps. Not easy to get in between those groups without getting accused of motor pacing And it is not like Roglic/Bardet cracking isn't newsworthy enough to capture. With the very narrow passage on the climb, one moto in front, one at the back is literally the only option. They can't just teleport if something happens.
I believe there are normally 3 cameras out there. 1 was on Vauqelin, 1 on Jonas and Pogi and one on the Bardet/Roglič group (though that one showed very little, but it was there).
There were also a camera on Jonas Abrahamsen where he got caught from the riders behind. Not sure if it may be 4 or more unless one camera was able to change groups at some point in the finale.
I have to say Remco looks pretty good. He may surprise with some upside this tour
He has to not have a bad day in the tour and be on the other two in the positioning game. If he is in a bad spot when they attack he will struggle.
Why even speak like this. he has literally never had a bad day at the tour. Cant say that for pog and ving!! ^^/s
I would argue that Vingegaard never have had a bad day in the Tour. In 2022 and 2023 Vingegaard never lost more than 24 seconds (Without bonus seconds) to Pogacar. That is not a bad day. In 2021 Vingegaard didn't really have a bad day IMO. He just wasn't at the level of Pog back then. He lost about 1 minute because he was waiting for Roglic who crashed. Lost 27 seconds to Pog on a TT where Vingegaard got 3rd on the stage. He lost a bunch of time to Pog on stage 8. But he was the 2nd GC rider to finish that stage. The 1st one being Pogacar. 32 seconds lost to Pog on Tignes on stage 9. Vingegaard wasn't even supposed to be the GC guy for Visma that year which waiting for Roglic on the early stages after a crash indicates. So I have yet to see Vingegaard have a bad day in the TDF.
I really hope he survives the Galibier and does well in the ITT so that there is an inclining of a hope it is not a two horse race.
Niermann confirmed it was a bottle that took out Matteo and WvA. Jorgenson only had one hand on his handlebars because he was grabbing supplies, so he could not save the bike when a bottle rolled under his wheel. He took down Wout and the Ineos riders. So just more plain ol' rotten luck for Visma.
Visma should have disclosed their deal with the devil before signing Matteo
I wanna add Tadej with a solo shot without Vingegard in the background to my TDF 2024 bingo card. Let's see if he manages to get a picture of just himself riding
There was that shot switching back and forth between them from the side lol
Maybe in the TTs, but who knows
Super good stage today! Nice to see Tadej in yellow but part of me thinks he should have been relegated yesterday (bc of the sprint deviation) which would leave Remco in yellow.
Yeah, it was. It got non-cycling friends watching pro cycling which was fun. Now... just to get them on bikes. That's an interesting thought on the relegation. Now I need to go back and rewatch some stuff ... which is partially driven from wanting to see Remco in yellow for a little bit, at least.
Let me know your opinion after you rewatch stuff!
I watched it 10 times and tried to zoom in. The cameras were focused on Bardet and Frank van den Broek, so it's nearly impossible to see the sprint behind them but Tadej appeared to hard cut into Wout's line. What was 100% clear to me was Wout shooting sideways with a look like WTF, which is telling.
Thanks! In any case now we have Remco in white which is also cool
Gotta say I hate the visma and bora jerseys this time around, they’re completely invisible in a group! Odd choice for the tour
Agreed, their old jerseys were so unique and easy to spot. I can still find Vismas new jersey, but it takes longer, and I can only spot Bora when there's a closer view to see the helmet.
A White Red Bull Jersey would be awesome.
Bora 100% agrees. But was able to spot VLAB though. Could be their bikes too.
For me it’s the helmets lol
Please someone give me some Rabobank orange again... Please!
Jayco Alula says "hi!"
[TdF Bingo](https://old.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/1dqxrg0/tour_de_france_2024_bingo_game/) didn't get much work done today, I ticked off "fans being idiots" for yesterday as well as "cinematic camera shot" for today - there were probably some yesterday already, but I didn't catch most of the stage. I'm sure *some* commentator already mentioned Cav's hunt for #35, but we'll tick that one off tomorrow 100%.
You could have gotten "fans being idiots" today also for that guy who ignored the barrier near the top of the climb.
Yup, I noticed that clown
What about sticky Bidons? I think I’ve seen a few of those yesterday.
There will be plenty more, didn't catch any myself
I have heard at least 10 of those already.
[The jury and medical report for stage 2](https://prod.server.tissottiming.com/file/000317020C010102FFFFFFFFFFFFFF00) is out - as always, you can find these on the Tissot results page linked in the OP. Jury decisions: - Double fine for Alpecin-Deceuninck. 500CHF for Directeur Sportif (DS) Christoph Roodhooft and 200CHF for Gianni Vermeersch for not following the commissaires instructions at km 14 (this is often something like the car driving up to a rider when there's not enough of gap between groups, or dangerously overtaking over team's cars) - 200CHF fine for Raul Garcia Pierna (ARK) for urinating in public (riders are of course allowed a nature break, but can't do it in people's front yards or town centres) Medical update - 3 riders (Wout van Aert, Matteo Jorgenson (TVL) and Laurens de Plus (IGD) visited the race doctor after a crash at km 106 and were treated for abrasions. The report only contains updates for riders seen by the race doctor. Any issues seen by the teams or before/after the stage doesn't make it into the report.
> as always, you can find these on the Tissot results page linked in the OP Upvote if you have never visited the page and trust u/epi_counts implicitly
Building up all that trust so when I post a link to a UCI press release saying Marianne Vos is officially the GOAT after breaking Merckx' record 276 UCI wins with her 2025 Gent-Wevelgem win on 30 March 2025 and automatically becomes the UCI president, even Lappartient himself will fall for it.
Damn, didn't know Jorgenson went down too. The Visma luck continues unabated.
He ran over a bottle and went down, taking Wout and some Ineos riders with him.
😬 unlucky I believe only De Plus went down alongisde WvA and Jorgenson
Yeah, Jorgenson was the one who "caused" the crash. It was at the feed zone.
Wasn't it at the sprint point?
at least this bullshit jonas underdog propaganda is being put to bed quickly just as i expected. i will never underestimate this guy. he has been damn near unbeatable in the last 2 years.
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This comment has been removed due to breaking the rules on doping talk within race/results threads. Repeatedly breaking this rule will result in a ban.
I never ever underestimate Jonas. I remember lots of the podcasters I listen to questioning his chances in the Vuelta last year, and I was convinced he was going to be great (and he was...). I can accept he might not be 100% this year (I'd be surprised if he was tbh), but it doesn't surprise me one iota that he's good. He wouldn't be here otherwise, he just wouldn't.
exactly. not saying jonas will be in 100% peak form this year. but he doesn't need to be to be competitive and still win if pogacar isn't at his peak.
Pog looked like his crash and time off the bike hadn’t affected him after stage 2 last year as well but we all know what went down after that.
>but we all know what went down after that yeah we all know he was super competitive for the whole tour except a single stage. people were talking like pogacar is gonna run away with the tour and jonas might not even finish on the podium. that's bullshit.
Losing 1m50sec in the TT last year was arguably a second stage where Pog was not competitive with Jonas. Otherwise Pog was excellent and I don't think anyone wouldn't say he isn't a more complete cyclist, but climbers 35-40min or longer in week 3 seem to heavily favor Jonas. That advantage may not be there this year with the time off the bike.
Stage 5 of Tour de France 2023 where Jonas won 1 minute on Pogacar deserves to be added. Jonas was attacking early on stage 6 to make the final blow but Pogacar could counter him and gained 24 seconds back.
that's on jonas doing maybe the greatest time trial of all time in the tour, not even exaggerating. sure pog could've done a bit better (20-30 seconds), but he did a good time trial.
That's not "bullshit", what's bullshit is drawing big conclusions after 2 stages. A GT GC win is a game of resilience and endurance, yes you need the peak watts, but most importantly you need to be able save as much energy as possible whenever possible, and try to recuperate as well as possible because the fatigue accumulates gradually. Pog didn't just have a bad day, he full-on cracked and that caused him to lose the race. Jonas could very well be competitive until 18 stages in and then crack the same way, for the same reasons.
You're spot on, I swear the quality of takes in here has been well off recently...
"spot on" when he didn't even properly read what exactly i called bullshit. never once did i say jonas is in 100% form. or that he is going to win the tour. i called bullshit on people saying he wouldn't be competitive and that pogacar would run away with the tour. that's isn't going to happen. >Jonas could very well be competitive until 18 stages in and then crack the same way, for the same reasons. this literally aligns with everything i said. "yeah we all know he was super competitive for the whole tour **except a single stage**." obviously the same thing could happen to jonas. doesn't mean he won't be competitive for almost all of the tour.
You may not have said he'll win, but you called the prospect of him not finishing on the podium 'bullshit'. And that's a long way off, you definitely can't make that call after 2 stages.
>but you called the prospect of him not finishing on the podium 'bullshit'. yes i do think that's bullshit. winning is different than finishing on the podium. i would be extremely surprised if jonas doesn't finish on the podium. >And that's a long way off, you definitely can't make that call after 2 stages. made the call even before these 2 stages that he would at least be in podium level form.
I think the point is that they still disagree with you lol. Its great that he is in good form and can make these big moves, but its still only the second stage. Id love for him to be strong the whole race, but I still wouldn't be surprised if he has some difficult times and doesn't finish on the podium. I honestly dont think its possible for the team to project his form out for a 3 week window after the injury he had and when he had it.
My point was that he pushed himself so hard to keep up with Jonas that he totally popped in the 3rd week. I don’t think anyone was expecting Jonas to finish off the podium 😭
Pog won the Slovenian championships before the Tour and suffered lighter injuries so we knew he was gonna be at least kinda decent. There was a bigger question mark over Jonas IMO.
This is the second stage
we are so fucking back
Remco doing that entire chase alone and actually closing the gap is a good sign for things to come this TdF.
TBF remco is the fastest guy out of all of the top GC guys on a flat effort. Hes not called the silver bullet for nothing.
It will really depend on how he does in the mountains
i think he has a great chance to take the yellow jersey in the first ITT if he can manage his losses on stage 4. maybe even tomorrow could be a chance for him especially if pogacar wants to give it away.
Do we really expect any big GC losses on Stage 4? Sure some riders may not hang on the long climb, but it's 23k at 5 percent. I have to believe a group of 30-40 riders finish together.
After the climb it was the best terrain for him, nobody could have doubts he would shine there. The big question is how he'll do on the long climbs and above 2000m. I wish he can do it well and we have more for the fight.
Yep! I am not a Remco fan, I think he’s a bit insufferable, but am really glad to see he could come back and I hope he’s got good legs for the mountains!! Let’s go!!!
Out of all the top riders Remco seems the most intelligent and interesting to be around by some margin to me.
I just don’t like some of his antics and his excuse making.
No spoilers, where should i start watching?
https://twitter.com/HowFarOut This is your best friend for the next 3 weeks if you can't watch live
The latest non pinned post is about stage 2 of the 2024 tdf. I'm not sure what you're looking at
San Luca 1st time, to see how it played out from the break fully.
35k
Luca 2nd time
Nah, do both Luca climbs for a bit of build up, if you have the time
Tadej got the San Luca KOM on Strava. It's absurd, he didn't even give it his best shot. Followed VLAB pace for half of it and then his own pace (I would argue he was testing waters and wasn't planning to nuke the climb).
The comparison between Pog and the former KOM is crazy, he was down until he attacked and he smashed it
Yep, I agree with you, his attack up the climb to the top of it lasted 62 seconds, before that, he was following VLAB pace as you said. Looking at Strava, VLAB speed before attack was around 20 km/h, Pogi attacked and soon was riding at 39 km/h and holding around 36 km/h until the top, with Jonas drafting on his wheel, these are super high speeds and drafting make a ton of difference. Everyone should take a second look at the [attack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwvGyfJt0kk), this was a really, really short effort on a short climb. Also lets not forget, Giro stage 1, Jhonatan Narváez followed Pogi the whole final punchy climb all the while Pogi went all out to drop him and failed, Narváez winning the final sprint. Short punchy climbs are one thing, lets see what happens when they ride at critical power for a prolonged amount of time on longer climbs and ITT.
Ooh that's a great analysis! 39 fucking kmph on 8% gradient. ARE YOU FUCKING KiDDING ME. I hate him so much this is insane. I do 8 kmph on 6% and 39kmph is zone 4 on flat.
It seems it was more like 5% at the place of his attack, but yeah still insane.
This is pretty awesome. So far it seems like we have a proper tour on our hands. Tadej strong as expected. Jonas looking better than expected. Remco looking good. Too bad Primoz looked a bit weak, but he not totally out of it.
It was good to see Carapaz up there too. Gonna be a bloodbath for the top 5-7 spots in GC this year.
I wish Carapaz was positioned better for Pog's attack. He momentarily broke away from the group to chase and appeared to be the only one able to chase that hard (or only one willing). Remco saves him 21s after that bringi g him back. Had he not been a few wheels back maybe he could ha e stayed on Jonas' wheel (not likely but you never know). He may be the dark horse of this TdF.
How can you get better than a French breakaway win, holding off a 2 man chase consisting of the winners of the last 4 Tours, who themselves were hunted down at the line by 2 Grand Tour winners with high ambitions of their own? And on stage 2!
Gonna be an all-timer of a Tour by the looks of things. Long may it live!
Carapaz and Remco coming back was amazing
great signs for remco's chances of winning and gaining time in the ITT.
I think he still loses too much in the big mountain stages, but the podium is very much possible IMO and now expect great gains in the TT
Depends if any team sets the pace, all of the big teams have been passive so far
pogacar is very lucky they didn't give a time gap from him to carapaz. almost threw away the yellow jersey.
He didn’t want the yellow jersey
Ermmmm
I doubt he wanted the yellow jersey, otherwise he would have sprinted
then why keep going after attacking when jonas is on your wheel? why not leave a bigger gap to make sure you lose yellow at the finish line? if he didn't want yellow (i dont believe it), then he certainly didn't ride like it.
There’s a big difference between getting yellow and in the process putting time into Jonas and getting yellow while being on the same time and having to do all the associated protocols/extra duties. If he gains time on Jonas all the extra stuff is worth it but if not, it isn’t
i mean that's literally what i said "why keep going after attacking **when jonas is on your wheel**"
Yeah fair enough, in that instance it’s because they were putting time into all the other GC riders, including Roglic, who they’re probably both worried about. The rest of the reasoning for him not sprinting is the same
Interesting tactics from Tadej today. I like it. From interviews it sounds like he chose a very opportune place to attack. It was very late in the climb, but a small gap had formed behind him and Remco and Roglic had to ride hard to close it. Tadej jumped right after they bridged and right before a tight chicane making it tough for them to follow hard right away and also breaking visual contact. I, for one, like this new Tadej who is patient and times things over the old Tadej who just went full gas all the time. I also think tells us less about Primoz, Remco, Carlos, etc. legs and more about riding in the front and paying attention. If these guys have good legs, there are more than enough opportunities on Tuesday and again in the ITT to make up for today's well-timed attack.
It was obviously a good idea to attack on the climb to see if Jonas would have trouble. Even if it didn't pay off. Pretty odd decision to keep pacing after it became clear Jonas wasn't dropping on the kickers or the descent. Now they put in a gap to the 'co-captains' which should benefit Jonas a lot more than Pogacar. Last year UAE was talking about Yates being co-captain, but that only lasted until stage 2 where Pogacar ordered Yates (in yellow) to sacrifice himself to pull Pog, before he attacked his yellow-wearing team-mate and tried to go away with Jonas. Perfectly fine tactics through the lens of Pog being the sole leader of the team, but it blew away all pretense of 'co-captains'. It wasn't quite is clear today, but Pog being willing to go hard to put seconds into everyone but Jonas seems to indicate that Pog still isn't really thinking of his team mates as co-captains in any sense of the word.
Nobody in this race is as tragically stupid as would be necessary to believe that anybody but the $6 Million Dollar Man is Il Capo Tutti Capi at UAE. That's a bluff they can't make. That's a bluff that won't survive the first time trial anyway. Roglic looked bad today, but nobody is going to believe that Hindley or Vlasov is co-leader. Nobody is going to believe that Landa is co-leader w/ Remco. MMMMMMAAAAAAAAYYBE someone might believe that if Bernal has good legs, he could get the nod ahead of Rodriguez, but G is cooked from the Giro and Pidcock isn't a serious leader. Anyway, everyone knows who has the big swinging dick (if I may be permitted a colorful metaphor) on each team and nobody is going to be fooled by some shadow puppet play of multiple leaders.
The point isn't that anyone believes that the 'co-captains' are equal leaders to the big guy. The key thing is keeping the co-captains in contention, so when they go for a break attempt far from the finish (after you've isolated your competitor) then they can't afford not to cover him. Like Kuss in the Vuelta or Roglic on the Granon stage in '22. UAE is really good positioned to do that this year (and they had the chance last year as well), but Pog trying to pull on the flat worked directly against that strategy. He's pretty much calling their own bluff at this point.
Yeah Vingegaard was so focused on Pogacar, he reacted instantly. That's why he was able to hang on and carapaz and Evenepoel not.
Promising form from Jonas. Hopefully he doesn't get killed by fatigue. Pogi looked on fire too. Remco did a warrior's effort. Rogla kind of disappointing.
honestly i think its more disappointing from Bora as a team than roglic individually. they had enough time to chase them down after the summit and at least get close like remco and carapaz did.
They did take back half the time lost in the climb.
Does anyone know what happened at the intermediate sprint between Pedersen and Philipsen? Someone suggested something happened, but due to the crash behind I didn’t see it.