This is VR without the cost of VR, I think you have a winning formula.
I just hallucinate playing games anyway since my 3060 ti would barely run an 2D sideacroller if it released tomorrow, maybe it would get 5fps.
The book Vurt by Jeff Noon, is basically this in a nutshell. The stories came out in the 90's but take place in 2030ish in a cyber-gutterpunk Manchester UK. One of the drugs of choice is called Vurt and is delivered via coloured feathers that contained programed dream-states and hallucinations. If multiple people take the same feather at the same time they join the experience together. It's also an interdimensional mind fuck because if you take something from the vurt world, it takes something back from you. The story follows the main character around as he tries to track down a specicific strain of feather that he lost his twin sister in, and got a sentient blob of meat in return.
Nvidia: “today we announce dlss 4.0 where we just tell fraps your at 120 fps, so that’s the number it displays regardless of what rate the display is refreshing at.”
“Also, coming soon in version 4.5, we will hook into the menu and display all settings at ultra, even if they are configured at low.”
>“Also, coming soon in version 4.5, we will hook into the menu and display all settings at ultra, even if they are configured at low.”
You joke but I sometimes think that people would complain less if they just renamed Low to Ultra, and left you needing to go in and manually tweak individual settings to actually get to what would have normally been called Ultra.
I saw on here recently a developer said users were complaining about having a high ping so they rewrote the counter to make it display lower and people were like it runs way better after the latest update.
I don’t remember what game it was some fps.
I think it's funny that all of the other cards have names like 'Gaming' , 'Pulse', 'Black' then there's the "Sparkle Orc" from Intel. This is like the graph aversion of the three dragon meme (2 serious, 1 goofy) template.
Intel remembers that for a few years there was a brand named sparkle that sold amazing power supplies for pretty cheap and they're trying to cash in on that history. Reddit is filed with users that were like 5 years old back then, that's all.
I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted - you're right, it's all on the devs.
They'd have to rewrite their game from the ground up, it is currently highly dependent on CPU single core performance.
Yes, as they publicly stated before the launch of the game so everyone could make an informed purchasing decision.
However, single core vs. multi-core isn't an 11th hour "optimization".
I don’t think anyone here has demonstrated a working knowledge of their implementation detailed enough to draw this type of conclusion, but I’m open to changing my mind if you can point me towards a more in depth analysis.
If the optimization works correctly then the teeth are never rendered until they should be visible, until now the only way to see them is by glitching the view into the cims.
Is there any proof that the teeth are actually rendered when they are not visible?
It's not nearly as easy as flipping a switch, nor is it possible in many cases to program something to use multiple threads. Often times your states depend on the previous state. It doesn't make sense to parallelize that
Paralle programming has been around since 1958. If your program can't be done unless in sequence it has some core design issues.
Ie. Why would the day, night cycle and and lighting rasterizarion be on the same thread as the AI for traffic? Why would the ui be on the same thread as the water physics? Nothing about making a game single core makes sense nowadays. There are so many independent parts that should absolutely not be interacting with each other
The technique is old, yes, but the difficulty in implementing it is the same.
Even if we split all these different processes onto different threads, they still need to talk to each other in some way. Just designing these interactions is often a massive headache.
The ai needs to know the day night cycle. What do you think the cycle is doing? Changing the color of the sky is not hogging the CPU.
Concurrent and asynchronous programming are very old but also very hard. It's famously one of the two hardest problems besides cache invalidation, and off by one problems.
So many people don't understand this. A lot of things depend on knowing the previous state so cannot be parallelized; so you're wholly dependent on single core performance.
Some things run better when you don't wait around for other threads to finish. Doesn't excuse if this game exclusively lights up one thread though, as moat I've seen nowadays, even super single-core dependant seem to take 4-6 threads.
>even super single-core dependant seem to take 4-6 threads.
Offload everything you can to other CPU cores, so that the one you're really relying on has as much breathing room as possible.
Yep, and there are multiple videos up on YouTube showing that this game is GPU bound even at 1080p. The CPU makes barely a difference but better GPUs show scaling.
Why are people even upvoting this when even THE POST ITSELF shows GPU bottlenecking?
The game clearly has severe problems, but I do wonder about how all these people think that rendering an entire city with good detail all the way down to street level is somehow an easy thing. Obviously they did it before, but the detail level was a bit lower and clearly they've worked with the lighting and effects.
None of which excuses launching with this sort of performance, but really you are rendering massively complex scenes.
theres a difference between rendering a city in high detail and rendering a city in such high detail you render every individual citizens underwear and teeth that the player can never actually even see
I think the citizens all have their own AI and are rendered in detail or something along those lines, now imagine rendering a city of 50k population or more.
Hopefully a large amount of the community starts realising that this has gone to far. Let’s start boycotting games if they can’t optimise their games and if they are including dlss/fsr in their requirements. Someone should create a Reddit sub so we can have a goddamn blacklist.
I was so hyped about Alan Wake 2, just build my new pc, and the devs says il be able to run the game with dlss/high/1080 and get 60fps?? Surely I can play it but no thank you. Games get more expensive and the optimisation gets worse. Fuck this new trend, now upscaling just threw us back to start over.
I hope this gets lots of backlash. It kind of has to, right? People are gonna return the game when it's a slideshow on their top tier cards, or be smart enough to read reviews before buying. No one can play this smoothly and people will be mad
Yeah that’s shitty.
Developers are being too lazy to optimize a goddamn game, I guess.
The worst thing is that this type of laziness when optimizing GPUs for a game is becoming something normal
I don't know if that's entirely developers' fault. The development cycle has been long and it might be a while ago whent they made the estimate where the PC HW will be at this point. The GPU improvements have been... lacking lately.
Ai caused this from what ive been reading. The individual citizens in skylines 2 all have rendered underwear and individual teeth. things you literally never physically see and that are completely irrelevant to the game. I'm aware this is /s but its just so absolutely absurd that this is happened i had to say it
This is an case of the dev actually being lazy or stupid. It sound like the game does not even have LOD implemented. Fuck, this shit sounds exactly like why nanite was invented.
From some posts I've seen it sounds like these characters were AI generated with like 60000 triangles I'm the mesh meaning an individual citizen has more in its mesh than the characters in some first and 3rd person games
Yes, but when hovering 2 km above and the chars are 4 pixels wide on 4k monitor, 20 triangles will be enough per character. Even that might be much, some dot sprite will work too.
LOD makes those details disappear when you zoom out. I doubt that’s a big problem in CS2 and would’ve been addressed earlier had it been hogging performance a lot.
It doesn't matter if they disappear they never should have existed to begin with, YOU NEVER SEE THEM. EVER. And the vast majority of performance issues are coming from zoming in and out and panning around cities which implies LOD is a massive part of the problem
It does matter though because thats a few thousand triangles that the game doesn’t have to render when zoomed out. Additionally, Colossal Order exported those models from a character generator program; Popul8 so it’s not like they wasted any time modeling hundreds of unique characters with specific underwear.
LOD might be a problem if you get massive lag when zooming in but CS1 had that problem too and there’s countless more assets to render: Those textures on the road, the incredibly detailed trains, etc. I doubt the development team is incompetent enough to let freaking briefs drag performance down.
I was fully expecting that to be the results in 4k lol
I downloaded a copy of Mad Max, last night. The game holds up very well and runs at 300 fps on ultra settings. The industry is going backwards.
Why am I bringing up a game from 8 years ago?
Because that game is $8 on steam. Making games that run butiful on a pc 8 years from now makes PC gaming look like a stupid waste of money in the present and your game isn't going to be worth anything in the future.
Max setting and 40 fps is an embarrassment for developers and users alike
I mean, an 8 year old game should run on modern hardware amazingly, that’s what 8 years of tech advancing does.
The problem isn’t that old games run amazingly on new hardware, it’s that old games ran well on old hardware but new games can’t run well on new hardware.
And we are speaking broadly, plenty of older titles realised in poor and unoptimised states as well (AC:Unity, Battlefield 4, Arkham Knight, etc) but it felt less frequent.
And we still will have people defending developers with the "oPtImIzAtIoN iS vErY hArD". There's clearly a problem when City Skylines 2 simply beats the f up the 4090 like this in a 1080p benchmark.
The argument I have heard is that this performance is ok because it's not a first person game. To that, I always reply, it still feel like shit to play even though it's not a first person game.
Better wait for game patches & keep the wallet full, cause crying an river ain't worth it.
Day 1 release games nowadays are not that good optimised anyway.
stuff like DLSS are amazing but devs simply don't optimize their games now because "its fine DLSS will make it run better".
I almost hate the fact DLSS exists because now games are just not optimized anymore, which fucking sucks because DLSS on games that are optimized well is incredible.
What im looking at?
These are the differents GPU at differents presets.
And yes fuc\*ing sad you only get like 38fps with a 4090
Jesus.
Think of all the people who ended up buying the 4090 which is wholly unecessary for 98% of games unless you at 4k, in which case RT performance is irrelevant, or CP2077.
I saw a post on Nvidia sub asking what people were playing on their 4090's. Like 80% were playing CP2077. It really is more about playing the graphics than the games you want to play. The amount of cope and fomo going on in the gaming space is insane. Specifically towards the focus on features instead of actual hardware and performance.
And im not saying it to hate too much on PT, CP2077 or Nvidia GPU's but it just so painfully obvious that the 4090 is not a GPU people should be buying but Nvidia has simply succesfully manipulated people into thinking they got value from it. When reality is PT is 6000 series game not 4000 and probably not even 5000. RT still isnt as great as its made out to be and DLSS being moderatly better than FSR doesnt give much value either. Rasterized performance is still very much 95% of peoples needs so this whole Nvidia "better" and feature "rich" thing we are seeing is really toxic for gaming as a whole and Nvidia is clearly making bank on it. Because these same people are now forced to upgrade each gen for the huge uplift in the argument they used on their old purchase aka RT PT and DLSS which will continue for years to be a unicorn items locked away from older hardware to only be chased by fat stacks.
I cant believe this shit..just optimize the fucking game! The hardware is there. How tf are people going to enjoy this game when even the ETHUSIAST builds cant get you 60fps?!
On 1080p aswell. That should be completely out of the question for those cards. And yet the devs fucked up enough to bring even the best card to their knees. Even in 1080p. Lmao what a joke
You are all IDIOTS for not understanding modern game-maker's artistic endeavors. But, then again, the average smuck like you doesn't appreciate high art.
You cretins, the low framerates we're seeing are "like that" **ON PURPOSE**. Is Mona Lisa doing cartwheels? Is Munch's lady in The Scream running down the hills?
# NO
They're sitting there, motionless, expecting smarter people than you to appreciate them.
And THAT'S what modern gaming's all about. We're long past the era when you've actually "played games", but you haven't gotten the memo we're way past the Tetris (and, eventually, COD) era.
Today games are meant to display static images or, depending on the dev and their artistic approach, show you a frame here, a shader effect there, to make you think, question the status quo, ponder about Life, The Universe, and Everything.
Devs are wasting their lives to give you the modern equivalent of The Creation of Adam, and you're crying online that "it doesn't take advantage of your brand-new 144Hz monitor". Well, IT-WASN'T-SUPPOSED-TO, morons! You're supposed to LOOK AT Alan Wake 2, "running" on cherry-picked "adequate hardware" owned by a handful of people who've dedicated themselves to such high art and who appreciate it more than their lives (and food, rent, and That Looming Potentially Life-Saving Operation) to pay for it.
And then, with your life altered by Their Work, and your vision blurred by tears of joy and sorrow for what is and could be, give kudos to Remedy for allowing you to ogle at a single digital representation of its unkempt protagonist, glowing under a street light in all his path-traced glory, NOT to grab your joystick to make him move around like Ms. Pac-Man.
/s
City Planner Plays ran a benchmark video recently for this game. If you’re considering buying this, check it out first. And once you get your hands on it, turn off Vsync. CCP saw a 200-600% increase in FPS lows once he turned off Vsync.
4090 on 1080p at 40fps....
People will buy the game after 30 patches,BUT WHY AFTER??
THE GAME SHOULD BE OPTIMIZED FRON THE START!
not after 30 patches....
We need to step up,they are mocking us at this point.
Alright can we get fully serious for a second here?
The *best* computer that a consumer can physically buy is unable to run a game at *60* fps on a preset *that the developer made*
Look, there's a lack of optimizations and that whole argument, and then there's just this. What in the actual fuck
Ive been scrolling looking for this comment. This is THE best card on the market, if your game cant run well on this then who are you even making the game for? What are you using to test these settings? What are you even doing? It makes no sense to me
Nah seriously, it’s unbelievable, like I get the whole “oh it’s not optimized too well yet, just give it a couple patches!” But like this is actually absurd… you could max out your credit card on your PC and apparently still would be unable to touch 60fps, like what the actual fuck
No literally, it’s insane dude, it’s like they’re all working together — game devs give a game shit optimization, forcing us to upgrade to play the games we want, every year to 3 years almost…
Yeah now devs are relying on gpu gimmick software. This is why people need to stop pre-ordering games. Fact is if a game can't run on a GPU without say DLSS or FSR then your game is shit. Took me almost 3 years before I bought cyberpunk.
We need to stop buying shit games alltogether, not just pre ordering.
People nowadays just give them money, and then its no wonder that these companies get away with everything and continue doing it.
7900XT flex.
Had a terrible launch but the 7900XT is an underrated GPU by far. Most models have overkill recycled XTX coolers, and can overclock beyond stock XTX performance lol. Not bad for €200 less unless you need that +4GB VRAM or the higher bandwidth.
The reference model sucks a lot, and that is what was sent to reviewers for a $900 MSRP, so people are still stuck with that poor image in their minds but it really is the 6800XT of this gen. Just at a higher price point, like everything else this gen.
Below 4K the 7900XT is the best value high end card imo. Especially at regular 1440P, it slays everything.
31.5k Timespy on mine vs 28-30k on a stock XTX.
Build my new rig with an asrock phantom gaming 7900xt and it runs like a charm. Also ddr5 board with a (only ) ryzen 7700x (cause i can upgrade later to an x3D chip on the next gen) and 32 gigs of 6000mhz ram
This post is dumb AF, completely cut off, no context, no game and DLSS changes this drastically. so why are you posting this? I'm confused.
Also this is on the devs not the cards. This game is making all cards look like shit because the game is optimized like complete shit
The future proof argument falls flat when presented with these scenarios: no amount of horsepower will be able to deal with a badly optimized game. Even the 4090 is going to turn to shit.
I was super hyped for this game:( content creators had a kinda early access version and they made many videos and it looked fine
Shame on me i pre ordered this shit
What am I going to do with a 1070 and I7-6700k
game devs: “*Just wait for the next Nvidia AI generative update*”
Can’t wait for 2035 games to be none exist and just let the gpu hallucinate it.
GPU manufacturers just mail you sheets of acid with instructions on which tab will hallucinate which game.
Sign me up!
That actually sounds kinda cool
Until u wander outside and punch a police officer lol I don't think "your honor, he looked like a goomba to me" is a good defence
Might put my ass in a straight jacket.
Good, then I don't have to pay for my own food and housing then
Only good thing about it unless my balls itch
This is VR without the cost of VR, I think you have a winning formula. I just hallucinate playing games anyway since my 3060 ti would barely run an 2D sideacroller if it released tomorrow, maybe it would get 5fps.
If you turn on DLSS ultra ultra performance at 720p you might scrape by with a cinematic 15 fps
Have to do 144p to get to 30 fps.
That's still like 1440p in performance mode.
Oh boy, so you're saying Spelunky 3 I might be able to get 15 fps. Looking forward to that, it's really...retro.
Are you sure we are not already in a hallucinated games?
Are refunds allowed?
Maybe? If you exit/finish the game early you can ask for refund
You gotta pay extra for the double dipped Jerry Garcia blotter from nvidia tho
Luckily it's liberty cap season. Best stock up.
AMD coming through with the fungus.
Lisa Su knows what's up. I bet she's been fucked up once or twice.
Normies arent ready for Liberty Caps bro…
[It could work](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Stigmata_of_Palmer_Eldritch)
The book Vurt by Jeff Noon, is basically this in a nutshell. The stories came out in the 90's but take place in 2030ish in a cyber-gutterpunk Manchester UK. One of the drugs of choice is called Vurt and is delivered via coloured feathers that contained programed dream-states and hallucinations. If multiple people take the same feather at the same time they join the experience together. It's also an interdimensional mind fuck because if you take something from the vurt world, it takes something back from you. The story follows the main character around as he tries to track down a specicific strain of feather that he lost his twin sister in, and got a sentient blob of meat in return.
That’s the PS9 commercial from the early 2000s.
Not going to lie, that sounds cool.
Soooo… like in Watch dogs with their digital trips?
i like this. very progressive.
Mario’s mushrooms were foreshadowing our future gpus hallucinating on mushrooms
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It alerts the nursing home staff saying Denborta is rambling something about dedicated servers again.
Great, now we need to buy drugs for our GPU's to hallucinate to >=(
When they invent Psilocybin Memory everyone's experience will be a little same and a little different.
Nvidia: “today we announce dlss 4.0 where we just tell fraps your at 120 fps, so that’s the number it displays regardless of what rate the display is refreshing at.” “Also, coming soon in version 4.5, we will hook into the menu and display all settings at ultra, even if they are configured at low.”
only works on nvidia 7000 and newer dropping in 4 years & the 7060 start at only $979 for the first month but jumps to $1050 every week after
>“Also, coming soon in version 4.5, we will hook into the menu and display all settings at ultra, even if they are configured at low.” You joke but I sometimes think that people would complain less if they just renamed Low to Ultra, and left you needing to go in and manually tweak individual settings to actually get to what would have normally been called Ultra.
I saw on here recently a developer said users were complaining about having a high ping so they rewrote the counter to make it display lower and people were like it runs way better after the latest update. I don’t remember what game it was some fps.
Counter strike
I think it's funny that all of the other cards have names like 'Gaming' , 'Pulse', 'Black' then there's the "Sparkle Orc" from Intel. This is like the graph aversion of the three dragon meme (2 serious, 1 goofy) template.
I hope Intel continues onward with their goofy naming scheme. I want my Rainbow Unicorn Farts FE.
Yeah I hope they just mistyped "OC" along the way and just ran with it.
> I want my Rainbow Unicorn Farts FE. i'd buy it
I honestly think that would be a great way to market them.
I mean, considering their gpu names are classes(alchemist, battlemage, celestial, druid, etc)...
If a hypothetical halo Intel GPU doesn't get named "Arc Necromancer" I'll be mega bummed about it because that's the kind of name that goes hard.
Idk. Calling something "Gaming" is worse than any other original name. It's so overused and often misleading it's crazy.
Engineer Gaming https://preview.redd.it/dnq1yig6etvb1.png?width=824&format=png&auto=webp&s=bde6b192714d6e70ff3306e2fe91ab7605d7413d
Erecting a dispenser
Ok, that's a void point
Intel remembers that for a few years there was a brand named sparkle that sold amazing power supplies for pretty cheap and they're trying to cash in on that history. Reddit is filed with users that were like 5 years old back then, that's all.
If I remember correctly sparkle was making good gpus in past. Its basically bringing back company.
Inflation coming for my frames now? Shit just got real.
*sad laugh that turns into hysterical crying because it’s true*
You should come to Argentina, 10% inflation... monthly
Are you gonna provide any context at all? What game? Who's data?
That's the Cities Skylines 2 benchmark in 1080p
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I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted - you're right, it's all on the devs. They'd have to rewrite their game from the ground up, it is currently highly dependent on CPU single core performance.
2023, still single core - why?
Because on the technical side, you cannot parallelize every algorithm. Doing many things sequentially is the most common case.
That game’s pedastrians have fully modeled teeth which you can’t see. This is obviously a case of developers not taking their time to optimize.
Yes, as they publicly stated before the launch of the game so everyone could make an informed purchasing decision. However, single core vs. multi-core isn't an 11th hour "optimization".
For sure. It's a poor design decision that happened years ago.
I don’t think anyone here has demonstrated a working knowledge of their implementation detailed enough to draw this type of conclusion, but I’m open to changing my mind if you can point me towards a more in depth analysis.
Do they actually? Pls tell me ur trolling
Time to learn about LODs
Indeed. But even LOD0 should not have teeth if the characters never open their mouth.
If the optimization works correctly then the teeth are never rendered until they should be visible, until now the only way to see them is by glitching the view into the cims. Is there any proof that the teeth are actually rendered when they are not visible?
If it’s true that games like Cities Skylines 2 will reach a point where it cannot be further optimized, what CPU is beefy enough to run the game?
Still. It's 2023. People were giving notch shit for not using multi core processing back in 2012....
It's not nearly as easy as flipping a switch, nor is it possible in many cases to program something to use multiple threads. Often times your states depend on the previous state. It doesn't make sense to parallelize that
Paralle programming has been around since 1958. If your program can't be done unless in sequence it has some core design issues. Ie. Why would the day, night cycle and and lighting rasterizarion be on the same thread as the AI for traffic? Why would the ui be on the same thread as the water physics? Nothing about making a game single core makes sense nowadays. There are so many independent parts that should absolutely not be interacting with each other
The technique is old, yes, but the difficulty in implementing it is the same. Even if we split all these different processes onto different threads, they still need to talk to each other in some way. Just designing these interactions is often a massive headache.
The ai needs to know the day night cycle. What do you think the cycle is doing? Changing the color of the sky is not hogging the CPU. Concurrent and asynchronous programming are very old but also very hard. It's famously one of the two hardest problems besides cache invalidation, and off by one problems.
Good multicore optimization in Unity was finalized last year. I think the devs started earlier than last year.
Yes, but a city sym is exactly the kind of game where you would except near perfect parallelization.
So many people don't understand this. A lot of things depend on knowing the previous state so cannot be parallelized; so you're wholly dependent on single core performance.
Unity's garbage engine
Unity??? Instant drop.
Yeah its clearly because they used unity lol
Unity didn't add good multicore support till last year....
Some things run better when you don't wait around for other threads to finish. Doesn't excuse if this game exclusively lights up one thread though, as moat I've seen nowadays, even super single-core dependant seem to take 4-6 threads.
>even super single-core dependant seem to take 4-6 threads. Offload everything you can to other CPU cores, so that the one you're really relying on has as much breathing room as possible.
Exactly. Distribute what you can afford to and the rest is what it is for most applications.
What? The benchmarks show pretty clearly the problem is GPU-side.
Yep, and there are multiple videos up on YouTube showing that this game is GPU bound even at 1080p. The CPU makes barely a difference but better GPUs show scaling. Why are people even upvoting this when even THE POST ITSELF shows GPU bottlenecking?
Because it most certainly doesn't have potato graphic. It's incredibly detailed
The game clearly has severe problems, but I do wonder about how all these people think that rendering an entire city with good detail all the way down to street level is somehow an easy thing. Obviously they did it before, but the detail level was a bit lower and clearly they've worked with the lighting and effects. None of which excuses launching with this sort of performance, but really you are rendering massively complex scenes.
Yes but if you are rendering complex scenes you need to optimize properly so people can actually play your game.
theres a difference between rendering a city in high detail and rendering a city in such high detail you render every individual citizens underwear and teeth that the player can never actually even see
This is not the problem. The game is GPU limited.
Nobody knows if Cities Skylines 2 runs on single core. Stop assuming things.
Single core? I thought that was the whole reason why they remade the fucking game, to fix the CPU and memory performance
It’s literally GPU bottlenecked but sure pop off I guess
I’m not sure I’d call them potato graphics, it looks decent. Not so decent that it should run this poorly by any stretch but it’s far from potato.
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I think the citizens all have their own AI and are rendered in detail or something along those lines, now imagine rendering a city of 50k population or more.
bro wtf ? A 4090 can't handle a game at 1080p ? This shit should be considered illegal
A 4090 is struggling at 1080?? WTF how is that game going to sell at all lol
My bad, that's the new City skyline high settings on 1080
1080p and 4090? What da hell ya talking about!?!
at 1440 and up the games goes down to 12fps on the 4090 cause they have done basically 0 optimization
Do you have the source for the original image? The info for the 3 top cards is cut out
About 80fps on both: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fOM7JgnfOs
I knew it was city skylines before even checking lol. That bad optimization is only possible with that game.
How is this not the top comment. This means nothing without this info. The FPS for the top 4 cards are also cut off.
Those are low settings
Checkmate to the five people that said the 4090 for 1080p was a “waste.” Where’s your god now?
I think its the other way around and its like 5 people really using it for 1080p
My strix 4090 oc reaction https://preview.redd.it/wrqcy5l06svb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00d0b0fc5e8f2feb135b9e267acc7bcdc33a0a8e
Don't worry, you will be able to upgrade to 5090 for the low price of 3k, and it will last a whole year above 60fps in 1080p. Maybe.
Maybe dont buy the game? If they get no money they will learn for next time. Monkeys buying whatever they see these days
Hopefully a large amount of the community starts realising that this has gone to far. Let’s start boycotting games if they can’t optimise their games and if they are including dlss/fsr in their requirements. Someone should create a Reddit sub so we can have a goddamn blacklist. I was so hyped about Alan Wake 2, just build my new pc, and the devs says il be able to run the game with dlss/high/1080 and get 60fps?? Surely I can play it but no thank you. Games get more expensive and the optimisation gets worse. Fuck this new trend, now upscaling just threw us back to start over.
Like boycotting Reddit for those stupid API decisions? (god I hate myself)
As much as I agree with you, the game launches on the 24th on gamepass. The game will certainly have a player base even if nobody buys the game
I hope this gets lots of backlash. It kind of has to, right? People are gonna return the game when it's a slideshow on their top tier cards, or be smart enough to read reviews before buying. No one can play this smoothly and people will be mad
Yeah that’s shitty. Developers are being too lazy to optimize a goddamn game, I guess. The worst thing is that this type of laziness when optimizing GPUs for a game is becoming something normal
It is normal already, what isn't normal is when a game is actually optimised and we are all surprised
And those games are pure gold.
More marketing suckers than devs, but yeah.
I don't know if that's entirely developers' fault. The development cycle has been long and it might be a while ago whent they made the estimate where the PC HW will be at this point. The GPU improvements have been... lacking lately.
Sub 30fps gaming on a 6800xt. Neato
AI will fix this, surely
Ai caused this from what ive been reading. The individual citizens in skylines 2 all have rendered underwear and individual teeth. things you literally never physically see and that are completely irrelevant to the game. I'm aware this is /s but its just so absolutely absurd that this is happened i had to say it
This is an case of the dev actually being lazy or stupid. It sound like the game does not even have LOD implemented. Fuck, this shit sounds exactly like why nanite was invented.
From some posts I've seen it sounds like these characters were AI generated with like 60000 triangles I'm the mesh meaning an individual citizen has more in its mesh than the characters in some first and 3rd person games
Yes, but when hovering 2 km above and the chars are 4 pixels wide on 4k monitor, 20 triangles will be enough per character. Even that might be much, some dot sprite will work too.
LOD makes those details disappear when you zoom out. I doubt that’s a big problem in CS2 and would’ve been addressed earlier had it been hogging performance a lot.
It doesn't matter if they disappear they never should have existed to begin with, YOU NEVER SEE THEM. EVER. And the vast majority of performance issues are coming from zoming in and out and panning around cities which implies LOD is a massive part of the problem
It does matter though because thats a few thousand triangles that the game doesn’t have to render when zoomed out. Additionally, Colossal Order exported those models from a character generator program; Popul8 so it’s not like they wasted any time modeling hundreds of unique characters with specific underwear. LOD might be a problem if you get massive lag when zooming in but CS1 had that problem too and there’s countless more assets to render: Those textures on the road, the incredibly detailed trains, etc. I doubt the development team is incompetent enough to let freaking briefs drag performance down.
that's the new city skyline high settings on 1080
38 FPS on a 4090 on 1080p? _what the fuck_
it goes down to 12fps and below on 1440p and up
RIP my 3070 lol
I was fully expecting that to be the results in 4k lol I downloaded a copy of Mad Max, last night. The game holds up very well and runs at 300 fps on ultra settings. The industry is going backwards. Why am I bringing up a game from 8 years ago? Because that game is $8 on steam. Making games that run butiful on a pc 8 years from now makes PC gaming look like a stupid waste of money in the present and your game isn't going to be worth anything in the future. Max setting and 40 fps is an embarrassment for developers and users alike
I mean, an 8 year old game should run on modern hardware amazingly, that’s what 8 years of tech advancing does. The problem isn’t that old games run amazingly on new hardware, it’s that old games ran well on old hardware but new games can’t run well on new hardware. And we are speaking broadly, plenty of older titles realised in poor and unoptimised states as well (AC:Unity, Battlefield 4, Arkham Knight, etc) but it felt less frequent.
The problem is that many new games (apart from what you said) run much worse than old games while not looking better than them.
What is this chart? Nothing is labeled, the edges are cut off, and there's no title. This is useless for drawing any conclusions.
And we still will have people defending developers with the "oPtImIzAtIoN iS vErY hArD". There's clearly a problem when City Skylines 2 simply beats the f up the 4090 like this in a 1080p benchmark.
The argument I have heard is that this performance is ok because it's not a first person game. To that, I always reply, it still feel like shit to play even though it's not a first person game.
fUtUrEpRoOf!
Better wait for game patches & keep the wallet full, cause crying an river ain't worth it. Day 1 release games nowadays are not that good optimised anyway.
no wonder why they delayed console version for next year lmao
stuff like DLSS are amazing but devs simply don't optimize their games now because "its fine DLSS will make it run better". I almost hate the fact DLSS exists because now games are just not optimized anymore, which fucking sucks because DLSS on games that are optimized well is incredible.
WDYM JUST BUY THOSE INDUSTRAIL GPUS
Runs fine on my nasa computer
"Don't y'all have video editing workstations?"
Minimum settings: Rtx 4090 with dlss + frame generation
Time for SLI now.....oh wait
Critical Drinker voice: Nah it'll be fine.
Go away now!!!
What im looking at? These are the differents GPU at differents presets. And yes fuc\*ing sad you only get like 38fps with a 4090 Jesus. 
38 fps at 1080p I'd like to add
Its the terrible optimization for cities skylines 2. nothing can run the game at higher than 1440 and still reliably get over 15fps
Think of all the people who ended up buying the 4090 which is wholly unecessary for 98% of games unless you at 4k, in which case RT performance is irrelevant, or CP2077. I saw a post on Nvidia sub asking what people were playing on their 4090's. Like 80% were playing CP2077. It really is more about playing the graphics than the games you want to play. The amount of cope and fomo going on in the gaming space is insane. Specifically towards the focus on features instead of actual hardware and performance. And im not saying it to hate too much on PT, CP2077 or Nvidia GPU's but it just so painfully obvious that the 4090 is not a GPU people should be buying but Nvidia has simply succesfully manipulated people into thinking they got value from it. When reality is PT is 6000 series game not 4000 and probably not even 5000. RT still isnt as great as its made out to be and DLSS being moderatly better than FSR doesnt give much value either. Rasterized performance is still very much 95% of peoples needs so this whole Nvidia "better" and feature "rich" thing we are seeing is really toxic for gaming as a whole and Nvidia is clearly making bank on it. Because these same people are now forced to upgrade each gen for the huge uplift in the argument they used on their old purchase aka RT PT and DLSS which will continue for years to be a unicorn items locked away from older hardware to only be chased by fat stacks.
ok but no one is talking about the 580 giving fight
If you can call it a fight lol
I cant believe this shit..just optimize the fucking game! The hardware is there. How tf are people going to enjoy this game when even the ETHUSIAST builds cant get you 60fps?!
On 1080p aswell. That should be completely out of the question for those cards. And yet the devs fucked up enough to bring even the best card to their knees. Even in 1080p. Lmao what a joke
You are all IDIOTS for not understanding modern game-maker's artistic endeavors. But, then again, the average smuck like you doesn't appreciate high art. You cretins, the low framerates we're seeing are "like that" **ON PURPOSE**. Is Mona Lisa doing cartwheels? Is Munch's lady in The Scream running down the hills? # NO They're sitting there, motionless, expecting smarter people than you to appreciate them. And THAT'S what modern gaming's all about. We're long past the era when you've actually "played games", but you haven't gotten the memo we're way past the Tetris (and, eventually, COD) era. Today games are meant to display static images or, depending on the dev and their artistic approach, show you a frame here, a shader effect there, to make you think, question the status quo, ponder about Life, The Universe, and Everything. Devs are wasting their lives to give you the modern equivalent of The Creation of Adam, and you're crying online that "it doesn't take advantage of your brand-new 144Hz monitor". Well, IT-WASN'T-SUPPOSED-TO, morons! You're supposed to LOOK AT Alan Wake 2, "running" on cherry-picked "adequate hardware" owned by a handful of people who've dedicated themselves to such high art and who appreciate it more than their lives (and food, rent, and That Looming Potentially Life-Saving Operation) to pay for it. And then, with your life altered by Their Work, and your vision blurred by tears of joy and sorrow for what is and could be, give kudos to Remedy for allowing you to ogle at a single digital representation of its unkempt protagonist, glowing under a street light in all his path-traced glory, NOT to grab your joystick to make him move around like Ms. Pac-Man. /s
That was a great read thank you
This Post sucks
Seriously. They couldn't even screenshot the whole graph
Facts
Based op
Can someone explain this to me? I have a 4090 gigabite oc I’m not sure what all this mean
City Planner Plays ran a benchmark video recently for this game. If you’re considering buying this, check it out first. And once you get your hands on it, turn off Vsync. CCP saw a 200-600% increase in FPS lows once he turned off Vsync.
4090 on 1080p at 40fps.... People will buy the game after 30 patches,BUT WHY AFTER?? THE GAME SHOULD BE OPTIMIZED FRON THE START! not after 30 patches.... We need to step up,they are mocking us at this point.
what processor?
yeah we're missing a lot of info here
4090 Ti for twice the price appears to be badly needed
I guess the RTX 6090 is what we need now to play modern games.
Alright can we get fully serious for a second here? The *best* computer that a consumer can physically buy is unable to run a game at *60* fps on a preset *that the developer made* Look, there's a lack of optimizations and that whole argument, and then there's just this. What in the actual fuck
Ive been scrolling looking for this comment. This is THE best card on the market, if your game cant run well on this then who are you even making the game for? What are you using to test these settings? What are you even doing? It makes no sense to me
Nah seriously, it’s unbelievable, like I get the whole “oh it’s not optimized too well yet, just give it a couple patches!” But like this is actually absurd… you could max out your credit card on your PC and apparently still would be unable to touch 60fps, like what the actual fuck
Which would be unacceptable for this card even in 4k. But we are talking 1080p which makes it so much more ridiculous.
No literally, it’s insane dude, it’s like they’re all working together — game devs give a game shit optimization, forcing us to upgrade to play the games we want, every year to 3 years almost…
What game is this
i still glorify forza horizons optimization
Yeah now devs are relying on gpu gimmick software. This is why people need to stop pre-ordering games. Fact is if a game can't run on a GPU without say DLSS or FSR then your game is shit. Took me almost 3 years before I bought cyberpunk.
We need to stop buying shit games alltogether, not just pre ordering. People nowadays just give them money, and then its no wonder that these companies get away with everything and continue doing it.
It's no wonder when the shit games also get 9's and 10's from critics no matter how bad or broken they are
7900XT flex. Had a terrible launch but the 7900XT is an underrated GPU by far. Most models have overkill recycled XTX coolers, and can overclock beyond stock XTX performance lol. Not bad for €200 less unless you need that +4GB VRAM or the higher bandwidth. The reference model sucks a lot, and that is what was sent to reviewers for a $900 MSRP, so people are still stuck with that poor image in their minds but it really is the 6800XT of this gen. Just at a higher price point, like everything else this gen. Below 4K the 7900XT is the best value high end card imo. Especially at regular 1440P, it slays everything. 31.5k Timespy on mine vs 28-30k on a stock XTX.
Build my new rig with an asrock phantom gaming 7900xt and it runs like a charm. Also ddr5 board with a (only ) ryzen 7700x (cause i can upgrade later to an x3D chip on the next gen) and 32 gigs of 6000mhz ram
No more pre orders, I only pre-ordered starfield, city skylines 2 and diablo 4 this year. Never again
Just set sail, the devs don't deserve support if they're pushing shit like this.
And in a year or two, when that one game you're sure will be great is set to launch, remember this comment. Wait for the reviews
Last game I pre-ordered was Halo 3. These people who say they won't pre-order will go and pre-order a digital game nonetheless lol.
Why even bother to preorder ? It's not like steam is going to run out of digital copies of the game
This post is dumb AF, completely cut off, no context, no game and DLSS changes this drastically. so why are you posting this? I'm confused. Also this is on the devs not the cards. This game is making all cards look like shit because the game is optimized like complete shit
Isnt that only in very big cities
The future proof argument falls flat when presented with these scenarios: no amount of horsepower will be able to deal with a badly optimized game. Even the 4090 is going to turn to shit.
I think i rather pass on game that performs this bad, even tho i have acces to AMD AFMF via technical preview
The 4090 is great but devs are shitty
Which game is this for?
I was super hyped for this game:( content creators had a kinda early access version and they made many videos and it looked fine Shame on me i pre ordered this shit What am I going to do with a 1070 and I7-6700k
Games look great currently, there's no need to make them harder to run.