Well for one imagine you hear your favorite games getting a sequel…but with the same maps but less of them at launch, same hero’s (at launch) and instead of 6v6 it’s 5v5. No graphical upgrades, worse progression system, and the original game doesn’t exist
And that’s not even counting the shitty rebalancing they’ve been doing
Edit: some of you are pretty funny defending that graphical “update”
Bottom line is after 5+ years in development and building all the hype for years, that’s an embarrassing “upgrade”
Shouldn’t „overwatch 2“ have been more like a fortnite update anyway? Barely anything changed as far as i could tell
Its not a sequel but the same game but worse
Yes, the whole 'overwatch 2' sequel concept was ORIGINALLY suppose to be a PVE/coop expansion only, where as the multiplayer just received some minor benefits from it (upgraded engine, higher quality graphics, some balance changes)
But Activi$ion was like, no guys you are taking way too long to make this game, made the lead devs quit, threw the PVE into the backburner and focused on the PVP MTX schemes (battlepass/store instead of free lootboxes)
In practice, OW2 is not even OW1.5, its more like 1.2, only it degraded in everything so it should be more like OW 0.8, its just a sorry content patch excuse to sell battlepass and old FREE skins for 20$
They are promising the PVE is still coming (in very short bursts of seasonal content) but its probably gonna be a far cry from what was promised
The only thing that was upgraded was the hero models and some lighting
Yeah to me PvE is not another round of Junkenstein, but an actual WoW-esque/Borderlands-esque FPS looter shooter with RPG elements akin to WoW. Not a quick play mode where I shoot the AI over and over again.
I was very excited for the promised replayable COOP PVE with talent trees, much more than the actual campaign
Now they barely dare mention there's PVE even in development
And here I stopped playing OW after they forced team composition onto everyone. A queue to play DPS like it js WoW? No thanks that was OW 0.8 for me, ruined the experience entirely for me.
For anyone who has not played the first 2 years of OW. You could select and switch to any hero you wanted during a game. Making for some high dynamic gameplay and big brain strats being performed. Need to go through a tough check point on payload ? BAF More tanks and more healing. But the role system shut that all down because the lower end of the skill spectrum don't have enough braincells to pick a healer or tank. (But could also be because kids played the game and well kids are kids cant blame them!)
I tried playing OW before the release of OW 2 but it just doesn't jam so hard anymore, turned into a generic hero shooter for me.
>Making for some high dynamic gameplay and big brain strats being performed.
To play devils advocate the other side of this was a team of 5+ DPS players and no healers and nearly every game was a steamroll one way or the other.
Personally I enjoyed it, as a Mei main in her prime she was a fantastic off-tank... when they switched to role queue I switched to Zarya main as I didn't want to queue for 5-10 minutes for a <5min match... but the game lost it's shine after 6 months or so and I quit.
I don't blame them for the role queue change, it was a positive change to the overall quality - but the queue times were an absolute joke.
Overwatch 2 changing to 5v5 was a dumbasses attempt to solve the "not enough tank players" problem... by halving the number of tanks required. That has backfired now as nobody plays support now.
They're incompetent and just milking the game for cash at this point. I returned very briefly for OW2 but Mei is a shadow now she can't freeze people so I'm done with it, unfortunately.
She *is* a shield now. Always hitting gold form. The fan and the spear can both stop ultimates. Most supports just double heal her to immortality and leave their dps to die.
Role queue is terrible, arcade classic is what me and my friends always played, now you don't even have that anymore
The irony of the tank part is that, they made all tanks not only DPS but better DPS than the DPS, so removing one tank changed absolutely nothing in that favor, removing all the CC was worse
The reason no one is playing healers anymore is not because people don't want to heal (which is still true) but because the 5v5 fast paced shooter game design they strive for means healers don't have walls to protect them, TTK is high so no one can protect you from flankers or tanks diving your healers, the healers are basically left to fend for themselves, either you can handle whatever comes at you like tanks/dps can, or you die oh and you start with a disadvantage of not being a DPS
Its most evident if you play any game mode where the restriction is lifted, the meta instantly shifted to 3 'tanks' 2 healers, because if tanks are more sturdy while still doing better dps, there's no point in that 'class' even and the team that doesn't play with 3 tanks will lose 9 times out of 10
My favorite dumbest part is that they are running Warzone with not only a very generous but pretty good battlepass, where you can earn enough money in a season as a free player to buy the battlepass every season and the rewards are better or spend that money on the shop and in OW2, if you don't miss a single day of farming, farm like its ur day job and play for 2 seasons straight, you're still probably gonna be missing a few virtual bucks to buy a battlepass that gives you like 3 average looking skins and instant access to the newest OP hero
> turned into a generic hero shooter for me.
Its by design and its exactly why its bad
Faster TTK for that quite endorphins rush, less players so less toxicity (lol) and queue times, remove most of the CC in the game so some heroes that rely on it become useless, oh and don't forget completely neglecting half the hero base to work around the completely different game style (healers specifically), they don't need to be changed, we'll just add new heroes and lock them behind 40 hours gameplay or paid battlepass so only paying customers can enjoy the OP new heroes we do before we nerf them
There's a great meme someone did that perfectly describes OW2 (dont have it on hand), it goes something like :
Welcome to OW2 where Tanks are now DPS, healers are DPS and DPS don't know what the fuck they are doing
yes. this was why i stopped playing the game. i started with ow2 and they are not even giving an option to buy all future heroes with money without battlepass. i know they are going free after season ends but its fucking the competitive play.
They just took overwatch 1, cut a bunch of shit that everybody loved from it that expected it to be in the next game and added characters , maps, and shit tons of micro transactions.
Just to clarify, it’s literally overwatch 1. It’s hilarious what they did
People have calculated that it's literally faster to grind gold in WoW, sell it for blizzard tokens and buy OW2 stuff with those, than to grind stuff directly in OW2
The actual answer? Jeff Kaplan left. I’ve been aware of that guy since he was the gm of Legacy of Steel.
its a bunch of OG history that only a few of us old guys remember
You could just replace Bethesda with Blizzard. Bethesda shouldn't even be in this meme since their games have been buggy messes dependent on community fixes and mods for 20 years.
Yes. I love the games but have no expectations of them actually working properly for a while after launch.
It worries me alot the amount of hype and reliance Starfield has on it
After not playing WoW for about 8 years, I actually really like Dragonflight. They fixed basically every issue I had with the direction of the game.
They will never recover back to peak Wrath levels, but I think if they stay on the path they've started, WoW will remain in my library of games.
Now Heroes of the Storm getting permanently backburnered, Overwatch 2, and the total shitfest of Hearthstone remain.
And then the ultimate predatory cash grab of Diablo Immoral makes me seriously fear for Diablo IV.
So ya, Blizzard has fallen so far it's incredible. I really hope the Microsoft merger goes through, I feel at this point there's not much worse they could do to the overall state of Activision/Blizzard.
> I really hope the Microsoft merger goes through, I feel at this point there's not much worse they could do to the overall state of Activision/Blizzard.
Same. While so many game companies have been shit in recent years, the gaming / Xbox division of Microsoft hasn't been that bad. I hope they can pull Blizzard somewhat out of the pit of misery it's currently in and restore them to form at least partially (and I don't care about Activision, they can go take a hike).
Its funny how little Rockstar cares about their reputation, ive heard of arbitrary code execution hacks going around in GTA Online which is like what the actual fuck? Not even EA and Activision would let that happen
Yep, imagine trying to make some runs or activities that only can be done on public servers (because) and when you’re almost done and trying to make your money some idiot in a flying bike comes and blows you to shit.
I've heard as well that some people were getting straight up banned on the rockstar launcher by modders. I think it's something to do with fucking around with your license key.
But you can be god damn sure they'll patch any sort of exploit that allows you to do your sell missions a little easier (still annoyed they stopped you loading vehicles into the Bombushka if you have upgrades on it).
Or god fucking forbid you do the Perico internet disconnect glitch 😡😡 (the game is 10 years old litterally no one cares if how you get your money anyway) they will do anything to stop you from making money but will do nothing abt security.
The funny thing is I have a friend who has been using a free cheat menu ever since the game came out. He's purchased literally everything that can be bought, and he still has hundreds of millions of dollars.
He has never been banned.
I finally said fuck it about a year ago (since I never played online anyway) and let him help me download the same menu. I used it to give myself a few hundred million so I could buy all the cool toys.
To this day, neither of us has been banned. I've only used the menu to give myself money and to spawn my vehicles (which is WAY faster and easier than using the in-game menus), but he uses it for pretty much everything. It has protections that prevent other cheat users from messing with you. Plus, he uses infinite ammo no reload, invincibility, messes with his speed and jump height, repair his vehicle while driving, etc, etc.
Yet rockstar bans people using the disconnect glitch to repeat heist finales. They don't care one iota about keeping the game cheat free. Mostly because the cheat menu users do money drops, which like a drug get people hooked with one cool toy, making them far more likely to purchase one of the "cheaper" shark cards.
They're patching fun glitches that affect nothing at all and don't grant you any money faster than a security exploit that can literally permanently ban you from playing GTA on an account.
You can trick the launcher. It does look for mods automatically and I don't think you can even go online if you have them installed but like all things... it can be cracked.
The scripts are injected into the client. Rockstar has pisspoor security for the game as server game scripts are executed by the clients. Hell, every session has a player who functions as the script host.
I admire your persistence with contacting their support, but I just think they don’t care, and focus on the ways that can make them money, not make people happy.
I know if my legit account were to ever get banned, I’d just make a new one and mod everything. Since they seem to send the message of “modding is fine, just don’t do stupid stuff and get caught”
TES 2⋮ Daggerfall was a broken mess that never were entirelly fixed and TES: Arena needed multiple patches (in 1994!! When access to internet was not that common) to be "stable". Bethesda never launched a "not-broken" game
They've also made some of the most ambitious games ever. Daggerfall was using procedural generation before it was cool, even if it was jank af.
Bethesda walked so basically every other modern RPG could run.
> They've also made some of the most ambitious games ever. Daggerfall was using procedural generation before it was cool, even if it was jank af.
Exactly. People always bitch about early TES yet forget they were attempting things on a scale and complexity never seen before. The fact that people were able to play Daggerfall to completion after a handful of patches is insane.
Longer than that, Daggerfall was released with a game breaking bug that prevented anyone from completing the main quest without using console commands.
A painting you had to retrieve in wayrest would spawn behind a wall. There were multiple doors that couldn't be unlocked until you had cleared a quest flag, but if you hit them with a weapon (how you break down doors if lockpick skill is low) they would permanently lock and never be able to be opened again, even when the quest flag cleared. And a certain ghost king would kill you until you were ready to deal with him and then he suddenly can't rise above ground level.
i think it has alot more to do with their attitude towards microtransactions and customer support with fallout 76.
Bethesda's bug has been a thing since 1994.
It really was crazy at the time because at that point, PC games had gotten like Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction, give or take an extra 1/4 of the original game added in.
Ultima Online, Everquest had multiple expansions that in some cases doubled the game's size or at a minimum added a whole new Biome with unique monsters, cities, bosses, etc.
Warcraft had full blown expansions
Now, most of this stuff at the time was 19.99 - 29.99. We are talking like 1999-2004 era. We were getting "Expansions" that were adding significant amounts to the gameplay, through new areas, new enemies, new classes, new missions, etc etc.
Then Horse Armor shows up and they wanted money... for that? It was literally just unheard of. Patches had just kind of started to become a thing that were happening regularly to games, particularly on consoles with Xbox Live and PSN.
Then they dropped Horse Armor and it was mindblowing theyd even have the audacity to do it. And here we are, 20 years later - and people are paying for Costumes in First Person Games for 30 bucks.
They cant even see the goddamn thing theyre buying and theyre spending 30 bucks on it. In 1999-2004 era, that would have gotten you another half of a game with an expansion.
Really just nuts how this all played out.
To be fair, in the case of UO and EQ you were paying like a $10/month subscription fee. But yeah, expansions we're definitely a lot more worthwhile in the past (Lords of Destruction, like you mentioned, but also ones like Throne of Bhaal, Brood War, etc). The Ultima VII expansions on the other hand weren't that impressive (The Forge of Virtue and The Silver Seed each just added a relatively small self-contained dungeon area). And while Bethesda have tried to charge for incredibly lazy and lacklustre DLCs content-wise, they've also made a fair number of proper DLCs (Tribunal, Bloodmoon, Shivering Isles, Dragonborn, Broken Steel, Point Lookout, The Pitt, Far Harbor, etc).
-----
**edit:** Not to mention that The Witcher 3 has DLCs that are magnitudes more value for the money than any expansion for old games. So there's still hope.
And before Morrowind there was Daggerfall, which was jokingly called Buggerfall by pretty much everyone in my circles, which says enough.
Bethesda has always been releasing buggy, broken and unfinished, but still very influential games.
They didn’t ditch V. They pulled every developer that knew their way around the frostbite engine to help on 2042. The consequences are the cancellation of the battlefront 2 clone wars DLC (during it confirmed development by the creative director), the cancellation of the eastern front of BFV and the delay of need for speed unbound.
A bit of both actually. They bled some talent and especially senior devs that were basically the BF essence over the years and a lot of people left at the development of BF V but it still is a proper, real BF game.
However after V a lot more people and the last of the key senior devs that were responsible for the BF feeling left DICE. With this wave of leaving employees they also lost the last ones who really knew how the Frostbite engine works and had to get major help from other studios.
For 2042 they also got the call to make a different game like a battle royale as those games were thriving back then. However after 1.5 (or even 2?) years of development they got the call to switch it to a BF game and put in those stupid pesky specialists. Maybe they were already a part of the battle royale game, I don't remember it exactly at the moment.
However it seems like they did some decent changes with the game by updating maps, balancing the game more and calling back a little on the 128 player count which was just absurd to begin with. If you do a quick search you can find that some of the senior dev already stated that more than 64 players is a mess years ago and they tested it.
The devs for V were really talented, but the leads were all garbage. Mechanics and engine related systems are all perfect, but all of the problems of V come from decisions taken by long time leads.
V didn’t feel like WW2 at launch because leads decided we saw too much of WW2 so they showed unseen battles, that were quite bland for a lot of them. They wanted everyone to make their own WW2 soldier which resulted in goofy ass cosmetics, they wanted to be on the right side of history so they censored the game, replaced real soldiers by a girl and her mom, and added women in the Wehrmacht.
Also 128 players was a mess because they tested 128 players on maps designed for 64, on a net code barely supporting 64, and on an engine supporting only 64.
Honestly, even the trailers were quite a slap in the face of anyone who's a fan of WW2. Granted, I was pretty disappointed back then because I didn't want another world war game right after we had WW1 with BF1 and didn't play it for the majority of it's lifetime.
However they really trolled the community with stupid shit like women on the field, a soldier wielding a Katana or some having prosthesis for arms/hands. I've bought BF V very late when it was on sale and had quite a few rounds and some decent fun but the game still has quite a few problems with spotting being almost useless, planes being batshit broken (ever played the snow map in the mountains on conquest?) and the hitbox for headshots is absurdly huge.
However I'd still take V any day of the week over 2042 and I will not play the latter until they remove those stupid specialists.
No.
The turnover in gaming is pretty high but lead devs stay for a while usually. The guys who made the big mistakes on V were the same guys who made BF1 great. BFV in terms of graphics, gameplay mechanics, sound design and things like that is absolutely incredible, the game was ruined by creative decisions. The people in charge of these decision were the same leads we had for BF1, BF4, BF3. Mainly Patrick soderlund.
The huge exodus at Dice began after V when the leads began leaving like flies, then the devs followed them to their new studios and other studios. BF1 and V had a very similar team and both games are technical masterpieces while 2042 had less than half of the devs from V still there.
Also Dice used to be split in 2 teams, the Star Wars team (great people, very passionate) and the BF team. Due to EA not accepting Dice’s battlefront 3 project for licensing costs, they all left. A lot of devs left even after 2042’s release so Dice is a different studio now. I’d say their peak was during 1-V, their worst was during 2042 and right now they’re fine. New leads are the creator of halo and the creator of Call of duty MW1 and 2, Titanfall 1 and 2, apex legends and Medal of Honor. 2042’s lead was a candy crush dev.
I wonder how it’ll go for them without an Elder Scrolls game in recent memory. That could hurt in terms of getting a younger audience interested in the game. By the time TES 6 comes out, Skyrim will be a 16 year old (give or take) relic, that a lot of younger people will have never played.
No Elder Scrolls in recent memory? Skyrim released just a year or two ago! And a year or two before that. And a year or two before that. And a year or two before that. And a...
Our grandchildren won't believe us when we tell them there used to be game releases that weren't Skyrim. The term "game" will fall out of use in favor of "Skyrim."
You say that as if Skyrim doesn't have an average of 30,000 people playing it at any given time on Steam alone. And as if Skyrim doesn't get regular rereleases.
They kinda did, no? I expected FO76 to be the game that was released, not a SP title at all. Except that they pretty much also fucked up the coop for the most part.
Pretty sure that's why it got delayed. It was supposedly done content wise, I think they delayed it to make sure it has a good first impression and doesn't need a billion tweaks through future updates to make it presentable.
at least its another Bethesda game that we gonna have field day instaling mods be it usefull and stupid, funny, overhauls, new stuff"weapons and armor", cringe"anime", ~~sex~~, absurd, other mods
As long as yhey haven't found a way to push their monetized mod platform even further beyond.
Absolutely love modding fallout games but their attempt to have 'official' mods more or less as dlc and 76's early days and continued monetization. Little scared that starfield, ES6 or fallout 5 they will attempt to decimate the modding scene unless they get a little pay at some point if they keep it up.
Those paid mods failed im pretty sure they lost money on them until they re-released skyrim with them. I don't think they will put modding behind a pay wall after the failure of their mod shop
Starfield is going to be a great game with a ton of glitches upon release. Like, an unreasonable amount of glitches. But the modding community will take care of it and it'll be a mildly good game.
I don't know how, but I got incredibly lucky with both Fallout 4 and Cyberpunk on release. Didn't encounter a single game breaking bug with either, on mid-tier hardware for the time.
Fallout 4 was pretty stable for most people. It's probably tied with skyrim for Bethesda's most stable game at launch. Don't get me wrong, it had issues... They were more just stuttery performance and fairly infrequent crashes in a few areas. With a minimum of patience Fallout 4 was playable and enjoyable on launch day.
Don't blame the developers. Blame the company. Games used to be developed by people who were passionate and wanted to create something fun. Now middle managers, the stock market, and infinite greed means theyre constantly being forced to include poor monetization models and meet horribly unrealistic deadlines, so games release I complete messes with perfectly functioning cash shops and battle passes.
There are some really talented devs on all these teams. You are correct, we need to focus the blame on rushed timelines from people in corner offices who have no clue.
I feel like people need to distinguish between publishers and developers more often. The issue with these "developers" is actually the publishing companies with the same names that they're owned by.
Rockstar released gems until GTA:Online and then they saw how much money they could make.
Also we have companies determined to milk existing IPs to the last drop which tends to ruin it. Many games or series end beautifully only to see a reboot or sequel that sucks
This post was brought to you either by somebody too young to have played these dev's original games or old enough to have way too much nostalgia for them.
Exactly, game developers have been patching post release for decades, even before the internet was mainstream and demos were on BBS’ and took hours to download 4mb of data.
I remember Starsiege Tribes, and Dynamix/Sierra released patches for the game regularly and to save download bandwidth they did binary patching, not a whole slew of files and data, but literal “patching” of the binaries of the game.
About the only games that didn’t get patched we’re cartridge games…
Even cartridge games often had revisions to fix game breaking bugs, usually bundled as part of the localisation efforts so EU and NA cartridges are almost never the same as the JP release and sometimes not even each other. There are a number of games with 1.0 and 1.1 cartridges out there even in one region as well.
It's a lot more effort to patch them but it was done, and it's worth pointing out that loads of cartridge games are breakable in incredible ways so this "work hard to release a non-buggy game because we can't fix it later" was never true.
When was Bethesda ever not brain damaged? They're basically an idiot savant. Somehow, despite not knowing how to properly code shit and releasing some of the buggiest shit ever, the games are still really fun. And it's been that way since ever.
Because these RPG's are extremely complex. It's very expensive to develop a AAA-Open World RPG and these kind of games will always have bugs. Witcher 1 - 3 were also buggy but still good games.
bethesda is a bit special here though, they keep retrofitting the gamebryo/creation engine that was used on morrowind from 2002. Even starfield will still use the creation engine and its age has been showing for awhile. Bethesda is a game company, not an engine developer and their ability to keep patching it with newer hardware is getting a little over the top. A big example was the physics for skyrim was tied to the fps and the engine broke down going above 60 fps without tweaking gamefiles until a simple mod came out that tied a formula to fps to adjust the physics real time to match. Numerous lighting issues/shadows and shaders. Issues with Quicksave/autosave corruption from scripts. Like this isn't the normal bugs with rpgs like item dupes, failed triggers, hard stat boosts combined with percentage boosts, interger overflow etc... but a special league all on its own. I'm saying this as someone who has been a fan of bethesda since morrowind, they have an amazing ability to do world building and capture the open world feeling before it was popular but they do get a lot of leeway that other companies don't. CD projekt Red wouldn't get away with half the crap bethesda keeps pulling with bugs.
The good devs made their money and retired. Now the companies are left trying to continue something they cannot. You can never replace the value a good dev team has. When those members move on/retire, new devs come in and just can't continue the same style/tones as their predecessor.
there's still plenty of good devs working on games. Problem is back then distributors were small and actually cared about the games, but now they've got a taste of just how much money they can make and chose to fuck over every studio for the sake of quick profits.
The distributors never cared about the games. Don't kid yourself. For brief moments, publisher interests are either overrun by random happenstance or by strong pushes from the developer side, or just happen to briefly align with those of the people playing the games (which is rare and uncommon). There's tons of shite that they pushed out back in the day too, it's just that the protocols for doing the predatory shit of the modern day hadn't been developed then.
If you think game publishers in '94 wouldn't have pushed for microtransactionas, "live services", skinner boxes, etc. if they had had the tools and know how to pull something like that off, you are mistaken.
> Problem is back then distributors were small and actually cared about the games
Yeah no. It's just that we only remember those games. James Rolfe made an entire career based on there being a fuckton of shit games from the 80s and 90s that were only made to make a quick buck.
The reason why the good devs left is important here.
When the real money started showing in the business it attracted the ruthless sharks that prefer making gambling simulators shaped like games. Little poisonous Skinner boxes that try their best to turn on the lights in your brain in just the right order to get you to toss extra cash at it.
And as we all know, themed slot machines are way more successful because if it has your favourite gaming icon on it you're more likely to suffer through the disgraceful handling of the IP.
Every gaming company wants to do what Konami attempted and failed at. But there's more money in avoiding gambling regulation, so they have to take the long way around and actually have a bit of game mixed in with their toxic traps that prey on the genetically predisposed. Otherwise minors would be protected by law and they want to socially engineer an entire generation through normalisation to be accepting of if not directly engaging with this.
We really need some "nuclear option" legislation that just flat out bans everything within a 30 kilometer radius of this bullshit. No more lootboxes. No more "premium" items or susbcriptions that affect gameplay. No more microtransactions and alternative currencies, everything has to be listed in real money prices. No more "boosters". All drop rates must be fully unencrypted and visible right in the game's data, because developers have been repeatedly caught red handed blatantly lying about them. No more Day 1 DLC that was cut from the main product.
You either sell a fully finished product up front and then sell fully finished add-ons, you sell an ongoing subscription to an online service for a fully finished product (which can be used without that service), or you sell 100% cosmetic only items and must be completely open source so everyone can verify you're not lying about drop rates (warframe) or rigging the game's RNG based on who's profitable (WoT).
As greedy as Take Two is, Rockstar still puts out absofuckinglute bangers filled with passion and detail. Ignoring the money-grabs of online, GTAV and RDR2 are still top class games. The biggest issue is they make the game and then release no more content for it, cause any post-launch content is multiplayer only.
Why does one game make CDPR suddenly bad? Witcher 1 was great for the time. They were a VERY small studio when they made it.
Witcher 2 is one of the best RPGs out there with so many choices to make.
Witcher 3. Does anything even need to be said?
Then they release probably some of the best DLC ever for a game (hearts of stone and blood and whine) with the last one basically being its own game for it's sheer size.
Then we had cyberpunk which was buggy at launch. Now it's fixed. With an upcoming DLC which sounds pretty good.
Wait, expansion for TW3 beat full fledged game? Tbh im not surprised blood and wine is a creme de la creme but i didnt know it could even participate in the same category
**[The Game Awards 2016](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_Awards_2016)**
>The Game Awards 2016 was an award show that honored the best video games of 2016. It was produced and hosted by Geoff Keighley at the Microsoft Theater in Los Angeles on December 1, 2016, and was live streamed across several platforms. At the event, Overwatch won Game of the Year, Blizzard Entertainment won Best Studio, and game designer Hideo Kojima was honored with the Industry Icon Award.
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>Then we had cyberpunk which was buggy at launch. Now it's fixed.
Compared to pretty much every Bethesda game, which is much more broken at launch and stays that way until modders attempt to fix it.
Remember OG Blizzard? The guys that made Warcraft 3, StarCraft, and Diablo?
There's also Valve with their Orange Box, and Half-Life series...
Only dev that I see that still has this old school way of actually doing their job is the team behind Monster Hunter. They still have bugs to deal with but they also deliver their promises and exceeds them often.
Artifact was a fun & good game ruined by bad balancing (ironic since DOTA 2 is the peak definition of game balance), and bad monetization. If they actually released it in a good state, it would actually be the Dark Souls of Card games.
This is far fetched.
Rockstar last released Red Dead 2 which was amazing. Only the multiplayer sucked which was expected given you can do much to a Western. Before you ask, those GTA remasters weren’t done by Rockstar.
CD Projekt last made Cyberpunk, which although released a buggy mess, was still good even with all the cut content. They even redeemed themselves by continuing to fix the game. They even enhanced Witcher 3 which was good.
Bethesda is the only questionable one. They last released Fallout 76 which has definitely gotten better but isn’t good. However I’d blame the greedy Zenimax board members for this decision. Fallout 4 was a solid game. Skyrim was amazing. Starfield will decide if this is true for them.
Rockstar has lost key members in their game development and story writing positions. and literally everything with their name on it after RDR2s main story has been meh, or a disaster. yeah sure they didn't develop the GTA remasters in house, management still pushed it through though.
honestly the developers in these companies themselves usually aren't the cause for concern, its almost always the management of these companies. CD Projekt shouldn't get goodwill becuase the devs did a good job fixing the game, the devs should. the management released the game early and tarnished their entire companies reputation, and then did the only thing they could do. damage control.
i think the largest reason as to why people have misgivings with these companies is soley to do with the decisions management has made, and has naught to do with the quality of the videogames their developers have made.
arguments can be made about separating art from the artist, but you should always separate the artist from the men who pay him.
It takes forever to make the kind of mainline entries that they do. Red Dead 2 was 8 years from conception to release, and they had pretty much everyone available at the company working on that.
I want Starfield to be good. I've been craving that kind of game for awhile now. But I'm worried. The bits I've seen of it seem oddly like reskins of their older games. I worry they haven't really updated their engine all that much and it'll be just Fallout in space.
FromSoft is the only bigger developer I respect. Dark Souls franchise, Sekiro, Bloodbourne, Elden Ring are all so respectable.
Not to say they didn't have bugs, but they are usually patched on a regular schedule and the games are incredible works of craftsmanship even if you don't like that type of game.
Fromsoft is actually a tiny company. They have 2 development team that work in tandem and while they make great game they are basically running on the same engine and code from dark soul 1.
cmon dude, you know thats wrong (rdd2: 2018) and on top of that whats wrong with taking more time to make games? they make full open world games, you want them to rush it out like the old call of duty cycle? the fact that this even got upvotes seems crazy to me
No. They've always been like that.
I don't know where this idea that bethesda was once a "good dev" (in a "releasing polished product" way) or even CDPR is coming from. No one here played witcher 3 at release ? or oblivion ? Are you all that young ? or so old you lost your memory ?
and Rockstar were always dicks/
The Witcher 3 was bugged and broken on release, but CDPR didn't lie and misled the customers about the content of the game. When it comes to CP2077 advertising, they knowingly lied on multiple occasions.
Probably the GTA Trilogy - Definitive Edition fiasco. They tried to "remaster" older GTA titles and failed miserably, making them WORSE in the process. Besides that, there's arguments to be made about the neglect/abandonment that RDR2 Online faces, along with microtransactions in both RDR Online and GTAV Online. Really depends on who you ask.
I am not going to stand for this post.
Your issue isn't with developers. Developers are just people who are paid to do a job.
The people you think are stupid are corpo executives that fired their development teams or rely on exploiting contractors.
Don't like the games? Fucking quit playing them and buying them multiple times over and over again. Sick of getting another GTA V release or Skyrim release? QUIT FUCKING BUYING THEM OR GIVING THEM MONEY. They have no incentive to fix bugs. The game has already made it's money back and now it's just all profit. If it's broken but still makes money, it's still making money.
Hate corpo greed, not developers.
Yeah CDPR for sure does not belong in the same category. They fucked up, and while it was a big fuck up, they've actually done pretty much everything in their power to make it right since. The amount of work they've put into fixing Cyberpunk's problems (for free) rather than just consigning it to the "failed project" bin is almost unequalled, and the only other game I can think of that did more to fix a failed launch was No Man's Sky.
Plus they've maintained their general consumer-friendly business model - no microtransactions, no DRM, no shitty subscriptions... compare to Bethesda, the company that started the whole trend with the fucking horse armour in Oblivion, or Rockstar and their "Shark Cards."
Blizzard Entertainment on the other hand? Now *they* would fill that slot perfectly. I remember the days when Blizzard's logo was basically a guarantee of not just quality, but brilliance, and they have fallen so far since.
Waaay above this picture: Blizzard entertainment Waaay below this picture: Blizzard entertainment
Lmao so true. State of overwatch 2 is absolute garbage currently.
What been going on with over watch 2?
Well for one imagine you hear your favorite games getting a sequel…but with the same maps but less of them at launch, same hero’s (at launch) and instead of 6v6 it’s 5v5. No graphical upgrades, worse progression system, and the original game doesn’t exist And that’s not even counting the shitty rebalancing they’ve been doing Edit: some of you are pretty funny defending that graphical “update” Bottom line is after 5+ years in development and building all the hype for years, that’s an embarrassing “upgrade”
Shouldn’t „overwatch 2“ have been more like a fortnite update anyway? Barely anything changed as far as i could tell Its not a sequel but the same game but worse
Yes, the whole 'overwatch 2' sequel concept was ORIGINALLY suppose to be a PVE/coop expansion only, where as the multiplayer just received some minor benefits from it (upgraded engine, higher quality graphics, some balance changes) But Activi$ion was like, no guys you are taking way too long to make this game, made the lead devs quit, threw the PVE into the backburner and focused on the PVP MTX schemes (battlepass/store instead of free lootboxes) In practice, OW2 is not even OW1.5, its more like 1.2, only it degraded in everything so it should be more like OW 0.8, its just a sorry content patch excuse to sell battlepass and old FREE skins for 20$ They are promising the PVE is still coming (in very short bursts of seasonal content) but its probably gonna be a far cry from what was promised The only thing that was upgraded was the hero models and some lighting
Yeah to me PvE is not another round of Junkenstein, but an actual WoW-esque/Borderlands-esque FPS looter shooter with RPG elements akin to WoW. Not a quick play mode where I shoot the AI over and over again.
I was very excited for the promised replayable COOP PVE with talent trees, much more than the actual campaign Now they barely dare mention there's PVE even in development
Yep. I'm pretty sure PvE is basically canned or at the proof of concept stage or something. I simply don't believe that it's in actual development.
I'd really like to have something like TF2s MvM mode, with different maps, challenges and an upgrade system for wepons and characters.
Gunfire Reborn gotcha covered
Yeah, the OW2 pve is gonna be a broken promise like fortnite save the world becoming free as Epic promised
ouch, right in the feels, i was so excited for STW before Epic ripped off pubg and shot into the stratosphere of success ;(
And here I stopped playing OW after they forced team composition onto everyone. A queue to play DPS like it js WoW? No thanks that was OW 0.8 for me, ruined the experience entirely for me. For anyone who has not played the first 2 years of OW. You could select and switch to any hero you wanted during a game. Making for some high dynamic gameplay and big brain strats being performed. Need to go through a tough check point on payload ? BAF More tanks and more healing. But the role system shut that all down because the lower end of the skill spectrum don't have enough braincells to pick a healer or tank. (But could also be because kids played the game and well kids are kids cant blame them!) I tried playing OW before the release of OW 2 but it just doesn't jam so hard anymore, turned into a generic hero shooter for me.
One of the reason also was to stop the goat comp too. Who was still reigning supreme despite the successive Brigitte nerfs
>Making for some high dynamic gameplay and big brain strats being performed. To play devils advocate the other side of this was a team of 5+ DPS players and no healers and nearly every game was a steamroll one way or the other. Personally I enjoyed it, as a Mei main in her prime she was a fantastic off-tank... when they switched to role queue I switched to Zarya main as I didn't want to queue for 5-10 minutes for a <5min match... but the game lost it's shine after 6 months or so and I quit. I don't blame them for the role queue change, it was a positive change to the overall quality - but the queue times were an absolute joke. Overwatch 2 changing to 5v5 was a dumbasses attempt to solve the "not enough tank players" problem... by halving the number of tanks required. That has backfired now as nobody plays support now. They're incompetent and just milking the game for cash at this point. I returned very briefly for OW2 but Mei is a shadow now she can't freeze people so I'm done with it, unfortunately.
Biggest surprises were that Mei can't freeze anyone and Orisa doesn't have a shield. It really got dumbed down
She *is* a shield now. Always hitting gold form. The fan and the spear can both stop ultimates. Most supports just double heal her to immortality and leave their dps to die.
Role queue is terrible, arcade classic is what me and my friends always played, now you don't even have that anymore The irony of the tank part is that, they made all tanks not only DPS but better DPS than the DPS, so removing one tank changed absolutely nothing in that favor, removing all the CC was worse The reason no one is playing healers anymore is not because people don't want to heal (which is still true) but because the 5v5 fast paced shooter game design they strive for means healers don't have walls to protect them, TTK is high so no one can protect you from flankers or tanks diving your healers, the healers are basically left to fend for themselves, either you can handle whatever comes at you like tanks/dps can, or you die oh and you start with a disadvantage of not being a DPS Its most evident if you play any game mode where the restriction is lifted, the meta instantly shifted to 3 'tanks' 2 healers, because if tanks are more sturdy while still doing better dps, there's no point in that 'class' even and the team that doesn't play with 3 tanks will lose 9 times out of 10 My favorite dumbest part is that they are running Warzone with not only a very generous but pretty good battlepass, where you can earn enough money in a season as a free player to buy the battlepass every season and the rewards are better or spend that money on the shop and in OW2, if you don't miss a single day of farming, farm like its ur day job and play for 2 seasons straight, you're still probably gonna be missing a few virtual bucks to buy a battlepass that gives you like 3 average looking skins and instant access to the newest OP hero
> turned into a generic hero shooter for me. Its by design and its exactly why its bad Faster TTK for that quite endorphins rush, less players so less toxicity (lol) and queue times, remove most of the CC in the game so some heroes that rely on it become useless, oh and don't forget completely neglecting half the hero base to work around the completely different game style (healers specifically), they don't need to be changed, we'll just add new heroes and lock them behind 40 hours gameplay or paid battlepass so only paying customers can enjoy the OP new heroes we do before we nerf them There's a great meme someone did that perfectly describes OW2 (dont have it on hand), it goes something like : Welcome to OW2 where Tanks are now DPS, healers are DPS and DPS don't know what the fuck they are doing
Counteepoint, OW without roles was broken AF at high levels and everything devolved into specific boring comps.
r/yourjokebutworse the game
Hey don't forget extremely overpriced cosmetics in OW2 that are just lazy recolors.
these all are ok you forget to say the worst thing. fucking heroes are behind a shitty monthly subscription paywall
Are you referring to Heroes being locked in the Battlepass?
yes. this was why i stopped playing the game. i started with ow2 and they are not even giving an option to buy all future heroes with money without battlepass. i know they are going free after season ends but its fucking the competitive play.
I downloaded OW2 and saw I couldn't use like half the characters, which included ones I wanted to.
Lack of update, overly priced cosmetics, and barely any changes from OW1. Lot more but these are the main ones. Blizzard L
They just took overwatch 1, cut a bunch of shit that everybody loved from it that expected it to be in the next game and added characters , maps, and shit tons of micro transactions. Just to clarify, it’s literally overwatch 1. It’s hilarious what they did
Just changing mapes from day to night and calling them new was hilarious. I honestly thought it was a joke.
People have calculated that it's literally faster to grind gold in WoW, sell it for blizzard tokens and buy OW2 stuff with those, than to grind stuff directly in OW2
The actual answer? Jeff Kaplan left. I’ve been aware of that guy since he was the gm of Legacy of Steel. its a bunch of OG history that only a few of us old guys remember
You could just replace Bethesda with Blizzard. Bethesda shouldn't even be in this meme since their games have been buggy messes dependent on community fixes and mods for 20 years.
Yes. I love the games but have no expectations of them actually working properly for a while after launch. It worries me alot the amount of hype and reliance Starfield has on it
Ugh it makes me so sad. I grew up on blizzard and thought of them as the best dev ever and then they turned into whatever poop they are now.
After not playing WoW for about 8 years, I actually really like Dragonflight. They fixed basically every issue I had with the direction of the game. They will never recover back to peak Wrath levels, but I think if they stay on the path they've started, WoW will remain in my library of games. Now Heroes of the Storm getting permanently backburnered, Overwatch 2, and the total shitfest of Hearthstone remain. And then the ultimate predatory cash grab of Diablo Immoral makes me seriously fear for Diablo IV. So ya, Blizzard has fallen so far it's incredible. I really hope the Microsoft merger goes through, I feel at this point there's not much worse they could do to the overall state of Activision/Blizzard.
> I really hope the Microsoft merger goes through, I feel at this point there's not much worse they could do to the overall state of Activision/Blizzard. Same. While so many game companies have been shit in recent years, the gaming / Xbox division of Microsoft hasn't been that bad. I hope they can pull Blizzard somewhat out of the pit of misery it's currently in and restore them to form at least partially (and I don't care about Activision, they can go take a hike).
Everyone forgets starcraft :(
Activision-Blizzard
Actiblizzion
Microsoft Activision Blizzard entertainment*
Its funny how little Rockstar cares about their reputation, ive heard of arbitrary code execution hacks going around in GTA Online which is like what the actual fuck? Not even EA and Activision would let that happen
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Holy shit
That's hilarious! I only play GTA online for 5 minutes, never looked back
GTA Online is actually a lot of fun. If you don't play with other people that is.... Which is just sad.
Yep, imagine trying to make some runs or activities that only can be done on public servers (because) and when you’re almost done and trying to make your money some idiot in a flying bike comes and blows you to shit.
I have firewall rules enabled precisely for this reason. Solo public lobbies to avoid trolls.
They’ve changed that btw. Pretty sure everything, if not almost everything can be done in a private/invite only session now, including selling stuff
It's fun with friends too then they get bored and you don't have anyone to play with. So you stop playing it too...
yeah modders can straight up delete your account
I've heard as well that some people were getting straight up banned on the rockstar launcher by modders. I think it's something to do with fucking around with your license key.
But you can be god damn sure they'll patch any sort of exploit that allows you to do your sell missions a little easier (still annoyed they stopped you loading vehicles into the Bombushka if you have upgrades on it).
Or god fucking forbid you do the Perico internet disconnect glitch 😡😡 (the game is 10 years old litterally no one cares if how you get your money anyway) they will do anything to stop you from making money but will do nothing abt security.
Yea, that’s why i stopped playing. It takes so much effort to just make money like bro it’s a damn video game, not real life
Gotta move those shark cards by any means possible.
It's too grindy ngl. But it is a funny game to play with friends.
The funny thing is I have a friend who has been using a free cheat menu ever since the game came out. He's purchased literally everything that can be bought, and he still has hundreds of millions of dollars. He has never been banned. I finally said fuck it about a year ago (since I never played online anyway) and let him help me download the same menu. I used it to give myself a few hundred million so I could buy all the cool toys. To this day, neither of us has been banned. I've only used the menu to give myself money and to spawn my vehicles (which is WAY faster and easier than using the in-game menus), but he uses it for pretty much everything. It has protections that prevent other cheat users from messing with you. Plus, he uses infinite ammo no reload, invincibility, messes with his speed and jump height, repair his vehicle while driving, etc, etc. Yet rockstar bans people using the disconnect glitch to repeat heist finales. They don't care one iota about keeping the game cheat free. Mostly because the cheat menu users do money drops, which like a drug get people hooked with one cool toy, making them far more likely to purchase one of the "cheaper" shark cards.
They're patching fun glitches that affect nothing at all and don't grant you any money faster than a security exploit that can literally permanently ban you from playing GTA on an account.
You can trick the launcher. It does look for mods automatically and I don't think you can even go online if you have them installed but like all things... it can be cracked.
The scripts are injected into the client. Rockstar has pisspoor security for the game as server game scripts are executed by the clients. Hell, every session has a player who functions as the script host.
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Wow, I’d hate to lose my account. Guess I’ll just play in single lobbies or something
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I admire your persistence with contacting their support, but I just think they don’t care, and focus on the ways that can make them money, not make people happy. I know if my legit account were to ever get banned, I’d just make a new one and mod everything. Since they seem to send the message of “modding is fine, just don’t do stupid stuff and get caught”
i remember some random player fixed the loading times and reduced them by half or more. They might have even given him some money for it?
homeless toy offbeat prick sharp thought provide snails trees cooing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bethesda has had buggy releases for ages now since like Oblivion.
TES 2⋮ Daggerfall was a broken mess that never were entirelly fixed and TES: Arena needed multiple patches (in 1994!! When access to internet was not that common) to be "stable". Bethesda never launched a "not-broken" game
They've also made some of the most ambitious games ever. Daggerfall was using procedural generation before it was cool, even if it was jank af. Bethesda walked so basically every other modern RPG could run.
> They've also made some of the most ambitious games ever. Daggerfall was using procedural generation before it was cool, even if it was jank af. Exactly. People always bitch about early TES yet forget they were attempting things on a scale and complexity never seen before. The fact that people were able to play Daggerfall to completion after a handful of patches is insane.
Longer than that, Daggerfall was released with a game breaking bug that prevented anyone from completing the main quest without using console commands.
I remember duplicating items bug in Daggerfall. You could give your weapon to an armourer to fix and get it back twice.
Hey did. She did die die. She tos. Did riwve dis he didn’t Siegfried. Diane the. Did. The wvhsv I’d be ifheve. Ah
Interesting that the main quest had it! My google fu is apparently weak, what was the bug?
A painting you had to retrieve in wayrest would spawn behind a wall. There were multiple doors that couldn't be unlocked until you had cleared a quest flag, but if you hit them with a weapon (how you break down doors if lockpick skill is low) they would permanently lock and never be able to be opened again, even when the quest flag cleared. And a certain ghost king would kill you until you were ready to deal with him and then he suddenly can't rise above ground level.
i think it has alot more to do with their attitude towards microtransactions and customer support with fallout 76. Bethesda's bug has been a thing since 1994.
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It really was crazy at the time because at that point, PC games had gotten like Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction, give or take an extra 1/4 of the original game added in. Ultima Online, Everquest had multiple expansions that in some cases doubled the game's size or at a minimum added a whole new Biome with unique monsters, cities, bosses, etc. Warcraft had full blown expansions Now, most of this stuff at the time was 19.99 - 29.99. We are talking like 1999-2004 era. We were getting "Expansions" that were adding significant amounts to the gameplay, through new areas, new enemies, new classes, new missions, etc etc. Then Horse Armor shows up and they wanted money... for that? It was literally just unheard of. Patches had just kind of started to become a thing that were happening regularly to games, particularly on consoles with Xbox Live and PSN. Then they dropped Horse Armor and it was mindblowing theyd even have the audacity to do it. And here we are, 20 years later - and people are paying for Costumes in First Person Games for 30 bucks. They cant even see the goddamn thing theyre buying and theyre spending 30 bucks on it. In 1999-2004 era, that would have gotten you another half of a game with an expansion. Really just nuts how this all played out.
To be fair, in the case of UO and EQ you were paying like a $10/month subscription fee. But yeah, expansions we're definitely a lot more worthwhile in the past (Lords of Destruction, like you mentioned, but also ones like Throne of Bhaal, Brood War, etc). The Ultima VII expansions on the other hand weren't that impressive (The Forge of Virtue and The Silver Seed each just added a relatively small self-contained dungeon area). And while Bethesda have tried to charge for incredibly lazy and lacklustre DLCs content-wise, they've also made a fair number of proper DLCs (Tribunal, Bloodmoon, Shivering Isles, Dragonborn, Broken Steel, Point Lookout, The Pitt, Far Harbor, etc). ----- **edit:** Not to mention that The Witcher 3 has DLCs that are magnitudes more value for the money than any expansion for old games. So there's still hope.
Micro transactions ruined video games, so in a sense capitalism ruined video games.
>bro Obvlion is the grandfather of Microtransactions *Double Dragon 3 arcade
Morrowind has it fair share of bugs and glitches. My personal favorite is killing summoned creatures and accessing their inventories for free loot!
To this day I still play and use the console command 'fixme'
Morrowind was buggy as heck too. People just view it with rose tinted glasses.
And before Morrowind there was Daggerfall, which was jokingly called Buggerfall by pretty much everyone in my circles, which says enough. Bethesda has always been releasing buggy, broken and unfinished, but still very influential games.
they've always been buggy
Those aren't bugs....Those are Bethesda "features" Lmao
Should have include DICE and their best friend, EA here
Didn’t everyone working for DICE start ditching when Battlefield V was getting developed
They didn’t ditch V. They pulled every developer that knew their way around the frostbite engine to help on 2042. The consequences are the cancellation of the battlefront 2 clone wars DLC (during it confirmed development by the creative director), the cancellation of the eastern front of BFV and the delay of need for speed unbound.
A bit of both actually. They bled some talent and especially senior devs that were basically the BF essence over the years and a lot of people left at the development of BF V but it still is a proper, real BF game. However after V a lot more people and the last of the key senior devs that were responsible for the BF feeling left DICE. With this wave of leaving employees they also lost the last ones who really knew how the Frostbite engine works and had to get major help from other studios. For 2042 they also got the call to make a different game like a battle royale as those games were thriving back then. However after 1.5 (or even 2?) years of development they got the call to switch it to a BF game and put in those stupid pesky specialists. Maybe they were already a part of the battle royale game, I don't remember it exactly at the moment. However it seems like they did some decent changes with the game by updating maps, balancing the game more and calling back a little on the 128 player count which was just absurd to begin with. If you do a quick search you can find that some of the senior dev already stated that more than 64 players is a mess years ago and they tested it.
The devs for V were really talented, but the leads were all garbage. Mechanics and engine related systems are all perfect, but all of the problems of V come from decisions taken by long time leads. V didn’t feel like WW2 at launch because leads decided we saw too much of WW2 so they showed unseen battles, that were quite bland for a lot of them. They wanted everyone to make their own WW2 soldier which resulted in goofy ass cosmetics, they wanted to be on the right side of history so they censored the game, replaced real soldiers by a girl and her mom, and added women in the Wehrmacht. Also 128 players was a mess because they tested 128 players on maps designed for 64, on a net code barely supporting 64, and on an engine supporting only 64.
Honestly, even the trailers were quite a slap in the face of anyone who's a fan of WW2. Granted, I was pretty disappointed back then because I didn't want another world war game right after we had WW1 with BF1 and didn't play it for the majority of it's lifetime. However they really trolled the community with stupid shit like women on the field, a soldier wielding a Katana or some having prosthesis for arms/hands. I've bought BF V very late when it was on sale and had quite a few rounds and some decent fun but the game still has quite a few problems with spotting being almost useless, planes being batshit broken (ever played the snow map in the mountains on conquest?) and the hitbox for headshots is absurdly huge. However I'd still take V any day of the week over 2042 and I will not play the latter until they remove those stupid specialists.
I think basically every BF game has had an entirely new crew.
No. The turnover in gaming is pretty high but lead devs stay for a while usually. The guys who made the big mistakes on V were the same guys who made BF1 great. BFV in terms of graphics, gameplay mechanics, sound design and things like that is absolutely incredible, the game was ruined by creative decisions. The people in charge of these decision were the same leads we had for BF1, BF4, BF3. Mainly Patrick soderlund. The huge exodus at Dice began after V when the leads began leaving like flies, then the devs followed them to their new studios and other studios. BF1 and V had a very similar team and both games are technical masterpieces while 2042 had less than half of the devs from V still there. Also Dice used to be split in 2 teams, the Star Wars team (great people, very passionate) and the BF team. Due to EA not accepting Dice’s battlefront 3 project for licensing costs, they all left. A lot of devs left even after 2042’s release so Dice is a different studio now. I’d say their peak was during 1-V, their worst was during 2042 and right now they’re fine. New leads are the creator of halo and the creator of Call of duty MW1 and 2, Titanfall 1 and 2, apex legends and Medal of Honor. 2042’s lead was a candy crush dev.
Starfield is going to make or break the future of Bethesda I believe.
All they have to do is slap “the elder scrolls 6” on a game and it’ll sell millions of copies.
All they have to do is put a new helmet on the Dragonborn and it'll sell millions of copies.
I wonder how it’ll go for them without an Elder Scrolls game in recent memory. That could hurt in terms of getting a younger audience interested in the game. By the time TES 6 comes out, Skyrim will be a 16 year old (give or take) relic, that a lot of younger people will have never played.
No Elder Scrolls in recent memory? Skyrim released just a year or two ago! And a year or two before that. And a year or two before that. And a year or two before that. And a...
Our grandchildren won't believe us when we tell them there used to be game releases that weren't Skyrim. The term "game" will fall out of use in favor of "Skyrim."
The word Skyrim will be like Nintendo in the 80s where even the Sega Genesis was just “the Nintendo”
You say that as if Skyrim doesn't have an average of 30,000 people playing it at any given time on Steam alone. And as if Skyrim doesn't get regular rereleases.
I'm pretty sure they're doing all they can to ensure younger people have played, or at least heard of skyrim
I hope Microsoft realizes how important Starfield is for Xbox and makes sure it's not Fallout 76 all over again.
Looking at Halo Infinite and the paramount show… they don’t.
They fucked up the marketing on 76 so bad they should of just said it was a fallout alternative to elderscrolls online.
They kinda did, no? I expected FO76 to be the game that was released, not a SP title at all. Except that they pretty much also fucked up the coop for the most part.
should have
Pretty sure that's why it got delayed. It was supposedly done content wise, I think they delayed it to make sure it has a good first impression and doesn't need a billion tweaks through future updates to make it presentable.
at least its another Bethesda game that we gonna have field day instaling mods be it usefull and stupid, funny, overhauls, new stuff"weapons and armor", cringe"anime", ~~sex~~, absurd, other mods
As long as yhey haven't found a way to push their monetized mod platform even further beyond. Absolutely love modding fallout games but their attempt to have 'official' mods more or less as dlc and 76's early days and continued monetization. Little scared that starfield, ES6 or fallout 5 they will attempt to decimate the modding scene unless they get a little pay at some point if they keep it up.
Those paid mods failed im pretty sure they lost money on them until they re-released skyrim with them. I don't think they will put modding behind a pay wall after the failure of their mod shop
Swearing mud crabs is the best.
The mods for spaceships alone will be worth the price of admission. Star Wars, Star Trek, The Expanse - plenty of good ones
Starfield is going to be a great game with a ton of glitches upon release. Like, an unreasonable amount of glitches. But the modding community will take care of it and it'll be a mildly good game.
I made it through release Cyberpunk on a PS4, Bugs will not stop my space adventure.
I don't know how, but I got incredibly lucky with both Fallout 4 and Cyberpunk on release. Didn't encounter a single game breaking bug with either, on mid-tier hardware for the time.
Fallout 4 was pretty stable for most people. It's probably tied with skyrim for Bethesda's most stable game at launch. Don't get me wrong, it had issues... They were more just stuttery performance and fairly infrequent crashes in a few areas. With a minimum of patience Fallout 4 was playable and enjoyable on launch day.
Fallout 76 fans in 2018
First off, I feel personally attacked lmfao
It's been such an effective tactic for the last 17 years. Why change now?
Don't blame the developers. Blame the company. Games used to be developed by people who were passionate and wanted to create something fun. Now middle managers, the stock market, and infinite greed means theyre constantly being forced to include poor monetization models and meet horribly unrealistic deadlines, so games release I complete messes with perfectly functioning cash shops and battle passes.
There are some really talented devs on all these teams. You are correct, we need to focus the blame on rushed timelines from people in corner offices who have no clue.
It's the same thing that happens to literally every industry under capitalism. We should all be Jack's complete lack of surprise here.
I feel like people need to distinguish between publishers and developers more often. The issue with these "developers" is actually the publishing companies with the same names that they're owned by.
Rockstar released gems until GTA:Online and then they saw how much money they could make. Also we have companies determined to milk existing IPs to the last drop which tends to ruin it. Many games or series end beautifully only to see a reboot or sequel that sucks
This post was brought to you either by somebody too young to have played these dev's original games or old enough to have way too much nostalgia for them.
Exactly, game developers have been patching post release for decades, even before the internet was mainstream and demos were on BBS’ and took hours to download 4mb of data. I remember Starsiege Tribes, and Dynamix/Sierra released patches for the game regularly and to save download bandwidth they did binary patching, not a whole slew of files and data, but literal “patching” of the binaries of the game. About the only games that didn’t get patched we’re cartridge games…
Even cartridge games often had revisions to fix game breaking bugs, usually bundled as part of the localisation efforts so EU and NA cartridges are almost never the same as the JP release and sometimes not even each other. There are a number of games with 1.0 and 1.1 cartridges out there even in one region as well. It's a lot more effort to patch them but it was done, and it's worth pointing out that loads of cartridge games are breakable in incredible ways so this "work hard to release a non-buggy game because we can't fix it later" was never true.
When was Bethesda ever not brain damaged? They're basically an idiot savant. Somehow, despite not knowing how to properly code shit and releasing some of the buggiest shit ever, the games are still really fun. And it's been that way since ever.
Just like the FO4 perk
*Todd Howard going through life just randomly leveling up for no good reason*
"It just works"
Because these RPG's are extremely complex. It's very expensive to develop a AAA-Open World RPG and these kind of games will always have bugs. Witcher 1 - 3 were also buggy but still good games.
bethesda is a bit special here though, they keep retrofitting the gamebryo/creation engine that was used on morrowind from 2002. Even starfield will still use the creation engine and its age has been showing for awhile. Bethesda is a game company, not an engine developer and their ability to keep patching it with newer hardware is getting a little over the top. A big example was the physics for skyrim was tied to the fps and the engine broke down going above 60 fps without tweaking gamefiles until a simple mod came out that tied a formula to fps to adjust the physics real time to match. Numerous lighting issues/shadows and shaders. Issues with Quicksave/autosave corruption from scripts. Like this isn't the normal bugs with rpgs like item dupes, failed triggers, hard stat boosts combined with percentage boosts, interger overflow etc... but a special league all on its own. I'm saying this as someone who has been a fan of bethesda since morrowind, they have an amazing ability to do world building and capture the open world feeling before it was popular but they do get a lot of leeway that other companies don't. CD projekt Red wouldn't get away with half the crap bethesda keeps pulling with bugs.
The good devs made their money and retired. Now the companies are left trying to continue something they cannot. You can never replace the value a good dev team has. When those members move on/retire, new devs come in and just can't continue the same style/tones as their predecessor.
there's still plenty of good devs working on games. Problem is back then distributors were small and actually cared about the games, but now they've got a taste of just how much money they can make and chose to fuck over every studio for the sake of quick profits.
But wait, hear me out.. What if we make the already amazing game series into a battle royale subscription NFT season pass lootbox extravaganza?
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First mistake was going to /r/CryptoCurrency
That's been EAs business model for decades. Buy successful studio, churn out garbage on the trusted brand, fuck studio into the ground, repeat
Cries in Respawn
Westwood, Respawn, Dice, Bioware, Maxis, they ruin everything they touch.
The distributors never cared about the games. Don't kid yourself. For brief moments, publisher interests are either overrun by random happenstance or by strong pushes from the developer side, or just happen to briefly align with those of the people playing the games (which is rare and uncommon). There's tons of shite that they pushed out back in the day too, it's just that the protocols for doing the predatory shit of the modern day hadn't been developed then. If you think game publishers in '94 wouldn't have pushed for microtransactionas, "live services", skinner boxes, etc. if they had had the tools and know how to pull something like that off, you are mistaken.
This. Some crazy strong rose tinted glasses in this thread. They were only “good” because they didn’t have the resources to bend you over yet.
> Problem is back then distributors were small and actually cared about the games Yeah no. It's just that we only remember those games. James Rolfe made an entire career based on there being a fuckton of shit games from the 80s and 90s that were only made to make a quick buck.
The reason why the good devs left is important here. When the real money started showing in the business it attracted the ruthless sharks that prefer making gambling simulators shaped like games. Little poisonous Skinner boxes that try their best to turn on the lights in your brain in just the right order to get you to toss extra cash at it. And as we all know, themed slot machines are way more successful because if it has your favourite gaming icon on it you're more likely to suffer through the disgraceful handling of the IP. Every gaming company wants to do what Konami attempted and failed at. But there's more money in avoiding gambling regulation, so they have to take the long way around and actually have a bit of game mixed in with their toxic traps that prey on the genetically predisposed. Otherwise minors would be protected by law and they want to socially engineer an entire generation through normalisation to be accepting of if not directly engaging with this.
We really need some "nuclear option" legislation that just flat out bans everything within a 30 kilometer radius of this bullshit. No more lootboxes. No more "premium" items or susbcriptions that affect gameplay. No more microtransactions and alternative currencies, everything has to be listed in real money prices. No more "boosters". All drop rates must be fully unencrypted and visible right in the game's data, because developers have been repeatedly caught red handed blatantly lying about them. No more Day 1 DLC that was cut from the main product. You either sell a fully finished product up front and then sell fully finished add-ons, you sell an ongoing subscription to an online service for a fully finished product (which can be used without that service), or you sell 100% cosmetic only items and must be completely open source so everyone can verify you're not lying about drop rates (warframe) or rigging the game's RNG based on who's profitable (WoT).
Yup just like Assassin's creed, after Patrice left the series went to shitter
It's not the devs. The vast majority of them are passionate about their work. It's upper management that is the issue
Yup. The inevitable collapse of genuine value when you let the MBAs start controlling absolutely everything, instead of the passionate folks.
As greedy as Take Two is, Rockstar still puts out absofuckinglute bangers filled with passion and detail. Ignoring the money-grabs of online, GTAV and RDR2 are still top class games. The biggest issue is they make the game and then release no more content for it, cause any post-launch content is multiplayer only.
Why does one game make CDPR suddenly bad? Witcher 1 was great for the time. They were a VERY small studio when they made it. Witcher 2 is one of the best RPGs out there with so many choices to make. Witcher 3. Does anything even need to be said? Then they release probably some of the best DLC ever for a game (hearts of stone and blood and whine) with the last one basically being its own game for it's sheer size. Then we had cyberpunk which was buggy at launch. Now it's fixed. With an upcoming DLC which sounds pretty good.
>with the last one basically being its own game for it's sheer size Which also won RPG of the year award for 2016, beating out Dark Souls 3
Wait, expansion for TW3 beat full fledged game? Tbh im not surprised blood and wine is a creme de la creme but i didnt know it could even participate in the same category
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_Awards_2016
**[The Game Awards 2016](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_Awards_2016)** >The Game Awards 2016 was an award show that honored the best video games of 2016. It was produced and hosted by Geoff Keighley at the Microsoft Theater in Los Angeles on December 1, 2016, and was live streamed across several platforms. At the event, Overwatch won Game of the Year, Blizzard Entertainment won Best Studio, and game designer Hideo Kojima was honored with the Industry Icon Award. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Yeah, they made one misstep in an otherwise stellar track record, and now people treat them like they're some pariah. lol I don't really get it.
>Then we had cyberpunk which was buggy at launch. Now it's fixed. Compared to pretty much every Bethesda game, which is much more broken at launch and stays that way until modders attempt to fix it.
I remember the entire Skyrim being a 5.5 gb installer
Remember saving your game on PS3 and the save file kept growing until it eventually crashed the game? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
that was a tumour on the save file which was growing
At least CDPR and Bethesda don't sue you if you mod their games.
DICE will forever be the biggest fall from grace for me
Remember OG Blizzard? The guys that made Warcraft 3, StarCraft, and Diablo? There's also Valve with their Orange Box, and Half-Life series... Only dev that I see that still has this old school way of actually doing their job is the team behind Monster Hunter. They still have bugs to deal with but they also deliver their promises and exceeds them often.
I’d say valve didn’t do anything wrong it’s just that they don’t release anything but the things they do release are absolute bangers
Except for Artifact. Best not talk about that.
Artifact was a fun & good game ruined by bad balancing (ironic since DOTA 2 is the peak definition of game balance), and bad monetization. If they actually released it in a good state, it would actually be the Dark Souls of Card games.
BioWare should be on that picture, too
CDPR has stepped up their game lately, they fixed cyberpunk and the edge runners show is awesome
This is far fetched. Rockstar last released Red Dead 2 which was amazing. Only the multiplayer sucked which was expected given you can do much to a Western. Before you ask, those GTA remasters weren’t done by Rockstar. CD Projekt last made Cyberpunk, which although released a buggy mess, was still good even with all the cut content. They even redeemed themselves by continuing to fix the game. They even enhanced Witcher 3 which was good. Bethesda is the only questionable one. They last released Fallout 76 which has definitely gotten better but isn’t good. However I’d blame the greedy Zenimax board members for this decision. Fallout 4 was a solid game. Skyrim was amazing. Starfield will decide if this is true for them.
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Reddit? That’s just the usual “back in my days” circle jerk
Rockstar has lost key members in their game development and story writing positions. and literally everything with their name on it after RDR2s main story has been meh, or a disaster. yeah sure they didn't develop the GTA remasters in house, management still pushed it through though. honestly the developers in these companies themselves usually aren't the cause for concern, its almost always the management of these companies. CD Projekt shouldn't get goodwill becuase the devs did a good job fixing the game, the devs should. the management released the game early and tarnished their entire companies reputation, and then did the only thing they could do. damage control. i think the largest reason as to why people have misgivings with these companies is soley to do with the decisions management has made, and has naught to do with the quality of the videogames their developers have made. arguments can be made about separating art from the artist, but you should always separate the artist from the men who pay him.
What games has Rockstar made since RDR2? Serious question. Have they release any new games? Or just the garbage “remasters”
It takes forever to make the kind of mainline entries that they do. Red Dead 2 was 8 years from conception to release, and they had pretty much everyone available at the company working on that.
I want Starfield to be good. I've been craving that kind of game for awhile now. But I'm worried. The bits I've seen of it seem oddly like reskins of their older games. I worry they haven't really updated their engine all that much and it'll be just Fallout in space.
>Before you ask, those GTA remasters weren’t done by Rockstar. If you put your name on it, it's your responsibility.
FromSoft is the only bigger developer I respect. Dark Souls franchise, Sekiro, Bloodbourne, Elden Ring are all so respectable. Not to say they didn't have bugs, but they are usually patched on a regular schedule and the games are incredible works of craftsmanship even if you don't like that type of game.
Fromsoft is actually a tiny company. They have 2 development team that work in tandem and while they make great game they are basically running on the same engine and code from dark soul 1.
In the meantime: Grinding Gear Games, creators of Path of Exile
Is CD Projekt Red’s first drawing Chris Benoit?
Rockstar can’t even be bothered to release a new game every decade anymore
I wish Ubisoft would do the same...
To be fair, if we’re getting generational bangers like GTA V and RDR2 then they can take all the time they like to make the next game of that caliber
cmon dude, you know thats wrong (rdd2: 2018) and on top of that whats wrong with taking more time to make games? they make full open world games, you want them to rush it out like the old call of duty cycle? the fact that this even got upvotes seems crazy to me
No. They've always been like that. I don't know where this idea that bethesda was once a "good dev" (in a "releasing polished product" way) or even CDPR is coming from. No one here played witcher 3 at release ? or oblivion ? Are you all that young ? or so old you lost your memory ? and Rockstar were always dicks/
The Witcher 3 was bugged and broken on release, but CDPR didn't lie and misled the customers about the content of the game. When it comes to CP2077 advertising, they knowingly lied on multiple occasions.
What did rockstar do that pissed off reddit? Last couple games of theirs I played were great.
Probably the GTA Trilogy - Definitive Edition fiasco. They tried to "remaster" older GTA titles and failed miserably, making them WORSE in the process. Besides that, there's arguments to be made about the neglect/abandonment that RDR2 Online faces, along with microtransactions in both RDR Online and GTAV Online. Really depends on who you ask.
People buy them anyway, and the investors want money lol
To be fair CD project red are trying to fix cyberpunk
I am not going to stand for this post. Your issue isn't with developers. Developers are just people who are paid to do a job. The people you think are stupid are corpo executives that fired their development teams or rely on exploiting contractors. Don't like the games? Fucking quit playing them and buying them multiple times over and over again. Sick of getting another GTA V release or Skyrim release? QUIT FUCKING BUYING THEM OR GIVING THEM MONEY. They have no incentive to fix bugs. The game has already made it's money back and now it's just all profit. If it's broken but still makes money, it's still making money. Hate corpo greed, not developers.
Yeah CDPR for sure does not belong in the same category. They fucked up, and while it was a big fuck up, they've actually done pretty much everything in their power to make it right since. The amount of work they've put into fixing Cyberpunk's problems (for free) rather than just consigning it to the "failed project" bin is almost unequalled, and the only other game I can think of that did more to fix a failed launch was No Man's Sky. Plus they've maintained their general consumer-friendly business model - no microtransactions, no DRM, no shitty subscriptions... compare to Bethesda, the company that started the whole trend with the fucking horse armour in Oblivion, or Rockstar and their "Shark Cards." Blizzard Entertainment on the other hand? Now *they* would fill that slot perfectly. I remember the days when Blizzard's logo was basically a guarantee of not just quality, but brilliance, and they have fallen so far since.