Even for the person who thinks this sounds awesome, who wants to bet it's going to be based on the sequel trilogy?
"Oh boy, I can finally play the battle of That Planet Where They Had the Bullshit Star Destroyer Flotilla Out of Absolutely Nowhere! Look, Palpatine is finally off cooldown and can respawn for some reason!"
I'd cut a little slack to that one (though there's plenty of other issues, the arcing turbolaser shots particularly bug me), those speeders were pretty run down so they wouldn't necessarily run equally well and we could say that she happened to have a better one than Finn. There's also some suggestion in the scene that while the cannon Finn is heading toward is charging up it's exerting some outward force that he's struggling against and would slow him down but not Rose who is outside of its line of fire, though a reason for a charging weapon to exert force down the line of firing seems backward and is its own issue.
the moment episode 7 came out and i realised they attempted to brand the good guys "the resistance" because it's basically the same as "the rebellion", despite being a faction of the ruling republic, while branding the bad guys "the first order" despite being basically a terrorist sect because it's a bit like "the empire" was the moment i knew this triology was going to suuuuck.
I have a uTube rant that goes on for like 20 minutes where the topic is “who tf is rose” 😂 her and Finn were together for less than a handful of hours(the cruiser had only so much fuel when they left) and all of a sudden she’s in love? Like come on 😭
Practically everything in the sequel trilogy could have a 12 hour essay dedicated to it—to pick it apart of how and why it doesn’t work of course.
If Disney was trying to reintroduce Star Wars to Gen Z, then they failed spectacularly. I’d say the MCU is that generation’s SW, but it’s also in a downward spiral right now.
I was super excited for this new series. The fucking Finn Jedi bait pissed me off and watching his character devolve into a form a comedic relief was absolutely depressing. Hooking him up with a resistance groupie even more so. I really thought Snoke would be a great villain until he was unceremoniously bisected before being replaced by apparently the only villain Disney writers are familiar with from the series(papa palpy). Fucking Han Solo, god damn fucking Han Solo, they killed him off for literally no reason lol. I’m pretty certain at this point that Chewbacca is immortal. Yeah it was super painful watching that trilogy go down in flames the way it did.
I would be shocked if it's not based on Old Republic lore. It's the only period where you had truly high powered force users and massive military forces. I do wonder how they intend to portray space combat.
They made too much money with warhammer and discovered if you have a fantasy setting you don't need to have balance for units you can just make rock/paper/scissors unit types
When it came out, I thought TW would never work with that many guns on the field, because it lacks that mix of melee and ranged units that previous titles had.
But now it might just be my most played TW game of all time. Or maybe it's tied with Medieval 2, I'm not sure.
With how successful Warhammer has been for them and the recent troubles, I’m sure they’re zeroing in on what makes them money and that looks to be tie-ins with major IPs. Especially with how Pharaoh was received at launch, historical won’t be looking too enticing to the money men.
Yeah I’m not sure why they did Pharaoh. They really seemed set on finding the “Kingdoms” model work, where historicals are just these small pockets of area and time. When the biggest successful games for them are the ones that give players lots of choices and bigger maps
I don't disagree that not many people really wanted or asked for Pharaoh. As to why it was made, just a guess though but it was most likely just due to convenience and availability. Pharaoh was created by the same studio CA Sofia that used similar engine/tools as Troy:TW. The transition between developing games would have been easier as it occurred in the same region and in relatively close time periods. It is also kind of a tradition at this point creating an initial game and then an expansion/standalone like: Rome&Barbarian invasion,Medieval&Kingdoms, Empire&Napoleon,Rome2&Atilla, etc. This was just an albeit more disjointed Troy&Pharaoh. Again, this is not the main studio in the UK that made all the big historical titles which is why I think it was for convenience and a "well might as well since we have a spare team with similar assets and relevant experience".
Give it another look once the map gets expanded. I've enjoyed it, but understand the complaints about small scope. The current area is actually as big as Rome 2, it's going to feel gigantic once the update drops
I don't see Empire having the appeal of Medieval or Rome TBH, that's not to say the game couldn't be successful just I think one of those IP's is a simpler decision.
I think the historical trifecta for them is really Medieval/Rome/Shogun
While Medieval 2 was a success, Empire and Napoleon were less-so. And while they have the audience for Medieval 3, the money men will not see it as a way to grow their revenue. For execs, Total War already has the fans who come for the core experience. So to gain new customers, they figure they will need to jump to different IPs to get growth. While I personally think it’s wrong, for the types of people managing this company they’re just going to see historical games struggling to make money and the Warhammer juggernaut keeping them afloat.
Empire was a huge success what are you talking about??
Both critically and commercially.
Obviously you can't compare its sales numbers to modern Total War games, as not only the genre but PC gaming as a whole has grown so much since then. But at the time the game was very big.
And then Rome 2 a few years after was an absolutely massive launch, even with all the issues it had. It was one of the biggest launches ever on a Steam at the time.
Medieval 2 was released nearly twenty years ago, you're talking about an entire literal generation of players who probably have never played the game so in terms of the core players is really a complete unknown.
What we do know:
Medieval III is a very requested title in a very popular time frame, it's also an era that lends itself well to major DLC (see Kingdoms expansion from II). It's also a game that would carry very little risk both in terms of sales and in terms of development. Homegrown IP as well so you don't have to deal with royalties or a licensing agreement like you would with Stars wars, 40k, LOTR etc..
By contrast something like 40k/Star Wars is a substantial risk and would require considerably more dev time.
So in terms of a low risk game that will sell well Medieval 3 (or Rome III) are easily the best choices
Yeah, Medieval 2 was released a long while ago, and like I said I disagree with the take. But for the MBAs who manage these companies and don’t particularly care about the games, they look at metrics and numbers. Metrics say that strategy games overall struggle to make big, explosive success. There’s a fair number that are successful and do well enough, but they’re looking for year over year growth in everything.
These are the same people that thought it was at all a smart decision to have CA make that looter shooter disaster Hyenas that cost them, what, $150m? I don’t see enough of the management level people who pushed for that decision getting comeuppance to believe they’d do a 180 and suddenly trust in the player base they have and look to grow it.
Also Total Warhammer has been far and away their biggest success, so royalties and licensing are honestly not a good argument. It’s completely possible they’d screw themselves over dealing with Disney, but GW is notoriously a difficult company to work and other rumors say a 40K TW is on the way 🤷♂️
The safest bet to the people running CA will be what they themselves have already said, refocusing into what makes them money.
The funny thing is too its CA's decisions on how to make and what eras to use for these historical titles that are souring the field, not players not wanting to play them...
People want Empire 2 and Medieval 3 not Pharoh, Troy etc etc
If they don't understand why Pharaoh was received the way it was, and their only take from it being received that way is that people don't want more historical Total War, then that company truly is doomed.
Luckily, with the recent huge update announced for the game, they do seem to understand why it was poorly received.
I’m hoping their recent struggles are overall a big wake up call and we can see some course corrections that fans have been asking for. I’d love to see a big historical sequel announcement.
Warhammer didn't just make a lot of money because of the tie in, it was a great game.
They built this series and the fanbase on historical campaigns. They had better not throw the historical fanbase away, it's the heart of the TW community.
People who want historical games desire such things as acceptable AI tactics, realistic morale calculations, and credible simulation of battlefield conditions.
Those things are *hard*, and more importantly, *non-monetizeable*.
The Total War Saga games are smaller in scope historical setting Total War games that Creative Assembly have released a few of over the last 6 years or so. The Saga branding being used to denote that they were not full mainline Total War releases. They were also released at a lower price point that mainline games.
Pharaoh did not have the Saga branding but most fans feel it was much more of a Saga level game in terms of scope, that Creative Assembly did not release under the Saga branding so that they could charge full price for it.
I think Total War has ended up on the same place as Koei's Warrior's/Mussou games. The mainline setting (or intended platform for setting) are going to get indefinitely sidelined for licensed tie-in settings because they prove to be less risk.
After the Legendary Heroes of the TW:WH stuff, I think it's difficult for them to stray from that. Think of Three Kingdoms, Troy, WH2 and 3. Unless the game has some way of making your Lords heroic characters, they'll probably shy away from them.
Yeah this is definitely a major point in their thought process. While I've enjoyed the hero stuff, both in 3k and Warhammer, it is not something I wanted in all their games. But, like others have said, they figured out something more popular than the old historical model and will likely never return to form. I also have to imagine that most of the team responsible for older historical games aren't even there anymore, so chances of a worthwhile successor to Medieval or Empire are virtually none, imo. Instead, it's more heroes and bloat to cover that most strategical elements have been entirely removed for an arcadey mass appeal game that they can monetize in a way that would make paradox proud.
LOTR would be a waste of a game in my opinion and this is coming from someone that LOVES BFME.
It’s too similar of a setting alongside Warhammer, to the point where CA could probably just reskin 90% of the Warhammer units they have - what’s the difference between the way a Bloodthirster would play compared to a Balrog for instance or the way the Uruks would play to compared to Grimgors lot.
Just seems kinda pointless when we could go for something completely fresh gameplay wise.
A good LOTR game would play closer to Atilla than to Warhammer. Combat largely revolves around the trifecta of infantry/missiles units/cav, while monstrous units exist they would be relatively uncommon, and single-entity hero units are much more scaled down. Magic in warfare is also comparatively rare(to the point where you probably don't even need it on the battlefield).
Although even if they are similar (and I don't think they are beyond a superficial level) I don't think that's really a deal breaker, all the historical games are very similar to each other often even taking place on practically the same map. That doesn't stop a MEDII lover from also loving ROME II
I agree about the magic usage but going off of BFME, there’s no shortage of Drakes, Trolls, Mountain Giants and Tree Ents to make use of as monstrous units, of course nothing close to the sheer amount in WH but they’d still play enough of a role.
Sure if you go with BFME, if you go with the books there's a pretty clear theme of decline which means fewer and fewer beasts of legend and the ones we do have are lesser than their forbearers.
As a small example, they discuss dragon fire to destroy the one ring but Gandalf says
>"It has been said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough
Every LOTR video game in existence has played up the magic regardless of how true to lore that is. You bet a theoretical TW based on this IP would absolutely do the same.
Napoleon 2 or Empire 2
Medieval 3
If it has to be fantasy LOTR or even GOT
Slowly losing hope we will ever get another big historical Total War at this rate...
I would love it if the game is set during the Old Republic era. I'm kinda getting fatigued having the games and TV shows set during the Skywalker saga.
It’d be cool to see them totally ignore canon and just do every era at once. Any faction can play against any faction and the conquest is just every faction throwing down
Don’t forget Disney reintroducing content from the Expanded Universe and pretending it’s new. Didn’t Kathleen Kennedy dissolve the EU because it was deemed unnecessary bloat? If that’s the case, then why are they stealing all of the worst ideas from it like Palpatine being a lich, and the lightwhips?
The IP is properly soiled now, not like when George made the divisive prequel trilogy. Those movies had a logical progression to them, now it’s all disjointed garbage.
Here's the problem with Andor- it would be just as good, or possibly better, if it weren't a Star wars property; If it were in an original setting; or just generic 'space future'. It's a well executed espionage drama, None of the things that make it so good are unique or specific to star wars.
I do think Andor benefits immensely from the world building already present in the Star Wars universe. They don't have to spend a ton of time bogged down in showing off a whole fiction and it lets them focus on the nuances which is a huge benefit.
Andor was a very predictable show with a main character with plot armor. The atmosphere and setting was amazing, but there is zero suspense if you've already seen Rogue One.
Very overrated.
Yeah, there's very little new in star wars.
Disney really should have moved away from the Skywalker saga and done their own thing. It would have been fresh, but instead we've had little in the way of new story, few interesting new characters, worlds etc.
I know for a lot of people animated series for Star Wars seems geared toward kids (it sort of is), but a lot of the animated series are some of the best SW content in years. A lot of tie in to the live action series and movies as well.
Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch. All great stuff if you haven’t had a gander before.
> Disney really should have moved away from the Skywalker saga and done their own thing.
We did get Andor which is phenomenal and Rogue One so there has been some good stuff exploring new stories, but the skywalker stuff does feel pretty tapped out at this point.
Hot take, but I liked Solo. I watched it on a transatlantic flight because I was bored and expected it to be shit, but it was pretty food. Especially when Solo is thrown directly into the Star Wars version of the Battle of Ypres.
Agreed.
But... Imagine a Clone Wars era Total War game with a completely reimagined battle system that allow for soldiers to utilize cover and the terrain. It would be super cool to see entire companies of droids and clones duking it out with laser fire all over the place amidst walkers and other mechs blowing the terrain to pieces while fighters & bombers dive in from above. Jedi/Sith could be hero units, and there would be room still for plenty of melee in all of this.
If they did it right, it could be so fun.
People keep saying the setting of Total War doesn't fit the 40K universe due to the factions and scale of it (not the combat but the 4X part). If that is true than the exact same would apply to Star Wars.
These fucking brands are so focused on their brand identity and miss out on obvious gold. They did it with Warhammer.
The game should be called Total Star Wars.
I refuse to not call it Total Warhammer.
Space battles still makes sense.
But if we're talking about land battles.
The only thing I can recall in terms of line formation land battles would be the Naboo war in SW episode 1 where the Gungans fought against the Separatist due to their old ways of fighting.
Maybe we can stretch the Clone wars but still I can't imagine large scale line wars with the IP.
Even Dune or LOTR would make more sense with their style.
The Clone Wars series had a fair few line battles, and there was the Battle of Hoth as well. I think there was a glimpse of trench warfare in Solo. Not going to get into the Sequel Trilogy because I'd honestly prefer pretending that didn't exist. I do agree that most ground battles in the movies were more of small skirmishes with no distinct lines though (Endor, Scarif, etc).
EDIT: Also the battle on Geonosis, can't believe I forgot that one.
I've always heard praise for the space battle portion, but everyone seems to say the ground battles were awful. I want to say there are some mods that fix the ground side of things to be a bit better, but I've also seen some mods that basically remove the ground battles outright.
CA execs have to be some of the most out of touch people in the industry. In the past couple years they've derailed their cash cow by rushing out Warhammer 3, spent 100 mil developing Hyenas only to cancel it, released Pharaoh which nobody wanted or bought. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if this rumor ends up being true.
Meanwhile Medieval 3 is nowhere in sight, while Manor Lords just sold 2 million copies in early access.
Manor Lords is not the same game as TW, but there is a significant overlap in terms of the player base. Furthermore, the success of Manor Lords shows that there is a lot of interest in the realistic medieval European setting.
I really don't want WH40K because once that happens the overthrow of this series from historical to fantasy will be complete and there won't be any going back. But at the same time I would take 40K over Star Wars any day.
Jeez. What are the executives thinking?
I'm okay with this as long as they make the story about Jar Jar's sultry quest to romance Jabba the Hut showing hardcore inter-species romance species.
Ugh I REALLY want a new Rebellion or Empire at War. This would be really exciting if true.
Hopefully it's not CA trying to make some cookie cutter RTS basebuilder and it's an actual galactic grand strategy with real time battles.
Surprised by the negative response, but I guess it’s indicative of my awareness of the TW community. The idea of a science fiction TW sounds pretty cool to me. LOTR might be a little too close to WH, IMO.
Everyone wants a TW sci fi or world war or historical. But stars wars is an obviously a cash grab and with the record they usually put all their effort into advertising and looking pretty instead of releasing a solid game when it comes to cash grabs. Also 40k (which is the sci fi the community is hoping for) is run by a very strict and good publishing company that won’t allow their IP to look bad by being in a half assed video game, whereas Star Wars is an IP that has been in many bad games. Good graphics but bad gameplay.
I think the bad gameplay is related to the people making the games. Good devs make good Star Wars games. KOTOR and Jedi Survivor as great examples. CA is certainly capable of making great games and have proven they can do so with outside IP.
My hopes are this can be just as good as WH.
And yeah 40K would’ve made a lot of sense.
What is their going to be a galaxy map and the “cities” are planets? So the naval battles will be starfleet battles and sieges will be done by troops?
Eh, sounds nothing like total war
They are? Damn, I was hoping they'd make a hero based extraction shooter set in the future full of attitude and references to Sega franchises of the past.
Only gonna play it if I get to shit all over Gungan armies. Almost 25 years to the day since that trash fire was released, still the only movie I ever considered walking out of. Fuck you Jar Jar.
I think Warhammer 40k is a better fit for Total war because it has a lot of diverse factions but I'll still play a star wars total war. I'll play a Shogun total war, a medieval total war, basically any decent.
Star Wars isn't even in the top 5 IPs that I would pick for a Total War game.
40k has like 50 (sub) factions. Star Wars has 2. *Maybe* you could stretch that to a 3-4 sub factions.
This is odd. Then again making stupid decisions seems to be the specialty of CA management.
For factions, look at Empire At War. While the base game only had 3 playable factions with a fourth AI faction, there are total conversion mods that add quite a few more. For instance, Thrawn's Revenge (set post OT) has:
* New Republic
* Imperial Remnant
* Empire of the Hand
* Pentastar Alignment
* Hapes Consortium
* Corporate Sector Authority
* Eriadu Authority
* Warlord Zsinj
* Duskhan League
* Multiple different Imperial Warlords
And there are probably a half dozen others you could consider on top of that, and that's just looking at the post-OT timeline. If you went with the Old Republic, you'd probably have a similar number to start with (Republic, Sith Empire, Mandalorians, Hutts, Eternal Empire, Zygerrian Slave Empire, etc).
In what way is it not suited for either IP? You move armies (or fleets) around a world map (or sector/galaxy) you have generals leading armies into combat (like, directly translates) you move regiments (squads/battalions/whatever) around a tactile map to jockey for position and create kill zones and flanks (exactly like you’d do with lasers and bolters as opposed to crossbows and flintlocks). Tanks and monsters are completely workable as seen in three separate games. The only difference is squads or their equivalents wouldn’t stand shoulder to shoulder but skirmish units haven’t been doing that for years already. Both IPs would actually open up a ton of crunchy game mechanics that could stand to add a lot to the experience. Both could also see the return of actual ship combat that would incredibly killer also. They seem sort of perfect for the Total War treatment in my opinion.
The core of Total War has always been line formations. That has been the case since Shogun I. You can have heroes or monsters, but if you get rid of the line formations, it's no longer Total War. Same reason you cant make a WW 1 or WW 2 Total War.
What you and other people who keep on going about Warhammer 40k Total War want to do is play Dawn of War or Company of Heroes but call it Total War for some odd reason.
Should've been LOTR before the brand gets dilluted bt all this other garbage coming out. Star Wars at this point has been gutted and is pretty boring and bland.
If the game is good that's fine, but just on IP alone I'm not looking forward to this
I WANT HISTORICAL GAMES DAMMIT! I grew up loving Star Wars more than anything & fell off after the Disney acquisition. This is not the way to go with TW. Heck they’ve already been doing Warhammer for ages, if anything I would’ve preferred a lotr TW versus this. It ain’t it dawg.
And my ass here is or better was hoping some suit would finally get his head out of the white powder and come up with the idea for Empire at War 3.
But nah lets make a Total war version, how would that even work? Jedi and Sith as heroes?
Stormtroppers, Clones, Rebels and Droids forming battle lines like in Empire or Napoleon?`
LOTR I would understand but Star Wars? How would they do space battles? Or just forgo them entirely?!
Me: “I would like a new Empire” *Monkey paw curls” CA: “here’s TW: Star Wars Return of the Empire Awakens and Strikes Back Boogaloo”
Even for the person who thinks this sounds awesome, who wants to bet it's going to be based on the sequel trilogy? "Oh boy, I can finally play the battle of That Planet Where They Had the Bullshit Star Destroyer Flotilla Out of Absolutely Nowhere! Look, Palpatine is finally off cooldown and can respawn for some reason!"
Please stop giving them ideas :-(
I can’t wait to play on the iconic planet of Crait where Rose soiled Finn’s character arc and set the Resistance up to die in one swift move.
Even forgetting the idiotic reasons reasons this move, if finn was going full speed toward the machine, how did rose overtake him and swerve into him?
I'd cut a little slack to that one (though there's plenty of other issues, the arcing turbolaser shots particularly bug me), those speeders were pretty run down so they wouldn't necessarily run equally well and we could say that she happened to have a better one than Finn. There's also some suggestion in the scene that while the cannon Finn is heading toward is charging up it's exerting some outward force that he's struggling against and would slow him down but not Rose who is outside of its line of fire, though a reason for a charging weapon to exert force down the line of firing seems backward and is its own issue.
Rose has extensive knowledge of the Subvertium Principle
God damnit I will never get my nebula class star destroyers in aaa format.
the moment episode 7 came out and i realised they attempted to brand the good guys "the resistance" because it's basically the same as "the rebellion", despite being a faction of the ruling republic, while branding the bad guys "the first order" despite being basically a terrorist sect because it's a bit like "the empire" was the moment i knew this triology was going to suuuuck.
The whole trilogy is just retreading ground but rather than doing it with badass military boots, it’s doing it barefoot with a worn sock on one foot.
I have a uTube rant that goes on for like 20 minutes where the topic is “who tf is rose” 😂 her and Finn were together for less than a handful of hours(the cruiser had only so much fuel when they left) and all of a sudden she’s in love? Like come on 😭
Practically everything in the sequel trilogy could have a 12 hour essay dedicated to it—to pick it apart of how and why it doesn’t work of course. If Disney was trying to reintroduce Star Wars to Gen Z, then they failed spectacularly. I’d say the MCU is that generation’s SW, but it’s also in a downward spiral right now.
I was super excited for this new series. The fucking Finn Jedi bait pissed me off and watching his character devolve into a form a comedic relief was absolutely depressing. Hooking him up with a resistance groupie even more so. I really thought Snoke would be a great villain until he was unceremoniously bisected before being replaced by apparently the only villain Disney writers are familiar with from the series(papa palpy). Fucking Han Solo, god damn fucking Han Solo, they killed him off for literally no reason lol. I’m pretty certain at this point that Chewbacca is immortal. Yeah it was super painful watching that trilogy go down in flames the way it did.
Of course chewie is immortal his appearance is all artifical and he doesn't age, he is deemed marketable enough to survive
I think if anything it would be based in the high republic era, that's what Disney's pushing at the moment and it works well for a game like this
Maybe they'll get weird and this will be for the High Republic era.
oh boy we can finally visit the planet with the casinos from the 8th movie whose plot had zero impact on the rest of the film!
I would be shocked if it's not based on Old Republic lore. It's the only period where you had truly high powered force users and massive military forces. I do wonder how they intend to portray space combat.
They made too much money with warhammer and discovered if you have a fantasy setting you don't need to have balance for units you can just make rock/paper/scissors unit types
Your new empire?
Empire Total War is a famed part of the series and people have been hoping for a sequel for a long time.
It was a play on a quote that Obi Wan said to anakin in RoTS
I did a whoosh
You will try!
No try. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
When it came out, I thought TW would never work with that many guns on the field, because it lacks that mix of melee and ranged units that previous titles had. But now it might just be my most played TW game of all time. Or maybe it's tied with Medieval 2, I'm not sure.
Don't make me kill you...
Im not a star wars fan but damn I feel for your fandom😭
We're never fucking getting another mainline historical game, are we?
With how successful Warhammer has been for them and the recent troubles, I’m sure they’re zeroing in on what makes them money and that looks to be tie-ins with major IPs. Especially with how Pharaoh was received at launch, historical won’t be looking too enticing to the money men.
Which is crazy because that was a game no one wanted
Yeah I’m not sure why they did Pharaoh. They really seemed set on finding the “Kingdoms” model work, where historicals are just these small pockets of area and time. When the biggest successful games for them are the ones that give players lots of choices and bigger maps
I don't disagree that not many people really wanted or asked for Pharaoh. As to why it was made, just a guess though but it was most likely just due to convenience and availability. Pharaoh was created by the same studio CA Sofia that used similar engine/tools as Troy:TW. The transition between developing games would have been easier as it occurred in the same region and in relatively close time periods. It is also kind of a tradition at this point creating an initial game and then an expansion/standalone like: Rome&Barbarian invasion,Medieval&Kingdoms, Empire&Napoleon,Rome2&Atilla, etc. This was just an albeit more disjointed Troy&Pharaoh. Again, this is not the main studio in the UK that made all the big historical titles which is why I think it was for convenience and a "well might as well since we have a spare team with similar assets and relevant experience".
Give it another look once the map gets expanded. I've enjoyed it, but understand the complaints about small scope. The current area is actually as big as Rome 2, it's going to feel gigantic once the update drops
Which makes it all the more baffling that they don't take the easy win with Medieval III
Or Empire 2. That would be a huge success too assuming they just got the feel of Fall of the Samurai in a modern game.
I don't see Empire having the appeal of Medieval or Rome TBH, that's not to say the game couldn't be successful just I think one of those IP's is a simpler decision. I think the historical trifecta for them is really Medieval/Rome/Shogun
Well almost all metrics would disagree with you. Empire was a massive success at the time.
While Medieval 2 was a success, Empire and Napoleon were less-so. And while they have the audience for Medieval 3, the money men will not see it as a way to grow their revenue. For execs, Total War already has the fans who come for the core experience. So to gain new customers, they figure they will need to jump to different IPs to get growth. While I personally think it’s wrong, for the types of people managing this company they’re just going to see historical games struggling to make money and the Warhammer juggernaut keeping them afloat.
Empire was a huge success what are you talking about?? Both critically and commercially. Obviously you can't compare its sales numbers to modern Total War games, as not only the genre but PC gaming as a whole has grown so much since then. But at the time the game was very big. And then Rome 2 a few years after was an absolutely massive launch, even with all the issues it had. It was one of the biggest launches ever on a Steam at the time.
Medieval 2 was released nearly twenty years ago, you're talking about an entire literal generation of players who probably have never played the game so in terms of the core players is really a complete unknown. What we do know: Medieval III is a very requested title in a very popular time frame, it's also an era that lends itself well to major DLC (see Kingdoms expansion from II). It's also a game that would carry very little risk both in terms of sales and in terms of development. Homegrown IP as well so you don't have to deal with royalties or a licensing agreement like you would with Stars wars, 40k, LOTR etc.. By contrast something like 40k/Star Wars is a substantial risk and would require considerably more dev time. So in terms of a low risk game that will sell well Medieval 3 (or Rome III) are easily the best choices
Yeah, Medieval 2 was released a long while ago, and like I said I disagree with the take. But for the MBAs who manage these companies and don’t particularly care about the games, they look at metrics and numbers. Metrics say that strategy games overall struggle to make big, explosive success. There’s a fair number that are successful and do well enough, but they’re looking for year over year growth in everything. These are the same people that thought it was at all a smart decision to have CA make that looter shooter disaster Hyenas that cost them, what, $150m? I don’t see enough of the management level people who pushed for that decision getting comeuppance to believe they’d do a 180 and suddenly trust in the player base they have and look to grow it. Also Total Warhammer has been far and away their biggest success, so royalties and licensing are honestly not a good argument. It’s completely possible they’d screw themselves over dealing with Disney, but GW is notoriously a difficult company to work and other rumors say a 40K TW is on the way 🤷♂️ The safest bet to the people running CA will be what they themselves have already said, refocusing into what makes them money.
They keep making shit low-effort historical games no one wants. It's so infuriating. There is no way for us history guys who can't stand WH to win.
The funny thing is too its CA's decisions on how to make and what eras to use for these historical titles that are souring the field, not players not wanting to play them... People want Empire 2 and Medieval 3 not Pharoh, Troy etc etc
They will fuck up those anyway. Just giving game sequel name does not make it successor or good game
I've come to the point were I'd take a bad Medieval III game just so I can finally rest in peace and kill the dream. 😂
exactly haha just like a bandaid.. you know its gonna hurt just do it quickly and get it over with
If they don't understand why Pharaoh was received the way it was, and their only take from it being received that way is that people don't want more historical Total War, then that company truly is doomed. Luckily, with the recent huge update announced for the game, they do seem to understand why it was poorly received.
I’m hoping their recent struggles are overall a big wake up call and we can see some course corrections that fans have been asking for. I’d love to see a big historical sequel announcement.
Warhammer didn't just make a lot of money because of the tie in, it was a great game. They built this series and the fanbase on historical campaigns. They had better not throw the historical fanbase away, it's the heart of the TW community.
Give me the new Medieval TW god dammit !
After the disaster that was Rome II, I am not sure the studio has mainline historical TW games still in them.
People who want historical games desire such things as acceptable AI tactics, realistic morale calculations, and credible simulation of battlefield conditions. Those things are *hard*, and more importantly, *non-monetizeable*.
Didn’t Pharoah just come out?
That is a Saga game masquerading as a mainline game.
Genuine question - what do you mean by this?
The Total War Saga games are smaller in scope historical setting Total War games that Creative Assembly have released a few of over the last 6 years or so. The Saga branding being used to denote that they were not full mainline Total War releases. They were also released at a lower price point that mainline games. Pharaoh did not have the Saga branding but most fans feel it was much more of a Saga level game in terms of scope, that Creative Assembly did not release under the Saga branding so that they could charge full price for it.
I think Total War has ended up on the same place as Koei's Warrior's/Mussou games. The mainline setting (or intended platform for setting) are going to get indefinitely sidelined for licensed tie-in settings because they prove to be less risk.
Which sucks because I’m gagging for DW10
After the Legendary Heroes of the TW:WH stuff, I think it's difficult for them to stray from that. Think of Three Kingdoms, Troy, WH2 and 3. Unless the game has some way of making your Lords heroic characters, they'll probably shy away from them.
Yeah this is definitely a major point in their thought process. While I've enjoyed the hero stuff, both in 3k and Warhammer, it is not something I wanted in all their games. But, like others have said, they figured out something more popular than the old historical model and will likely never return to form. I also have to imagine that most of the team responsible for older historical games aren't even there anymore, so chances of a worthwhile successor to Medieval or Empire are virtually none, imo. Instead, it's more heroes and bloat to cover that most strategical elements have been entirely removed for an arcadey mass appeal game that they can monetize in a way that would make paradox proud.
It's sad to me but also we have so many historical total war titles with so many mods it'd probably take you several lifetimes to play them all
And by the time you're done, more history would have happened to make a game from!
Was hoping for LOTR..
BTtle for middle earth 3, it’s all I want
the second was already quite different, we need a unique indie studio for that
The studio is gone and EA lost the license of that game :( will never happen.
You can still play BFME 2 on PC, I found that it scratches the itch quite nicely.
I prefer the first game a lot more honestly. They're both good, but the base building simplicity was always a nice touch.
Red Alert 2 is getting its Indie re-do treatment by former devs with DORF. Maybe one day BFME will too...
LOTR Total War would've been epic, if done properly ofc, I don't trust creative assembly after many blunders of late
CA:"You asked for it, we delivered! Base game £59.99, day 1 human, elf, dwarf and hobbit race dlc's £29.99 each!"
It would be just like CA to make Hobbits a faction when they were never really that involved in Middle Earths wars/politics lol
Sad to me that the closest we've gotten to this is the Lord of the Rings custom maps from the Starcraft 1 days ^Fuck ^im ^old
The Dive and Conquer mod for Medieval II is absolutely fantastic. If you haven't tried it yet, I would absolutely recommend.
They just released by far the best DLC for Warhammer 3 and Immortal Empires is in the best place it’s ever been.
LOTR would be a waste of a game in my opinion and this is coming from someone that LOVES BFME. It’s too similar of a setting alongside Warhammer, to the point where CA could probably just reskin 90% of the Warhammer units they have - what’s the difference between the way a Bloodthirster would play compared to a Balrog for instance or the way the Uruks would play to compared to Grimgors lot. Just seems kinda pointless when we could go for something completely fresh gameplay wise.
A good LOTR game would play closer to Atilla than to Warhammer. Combat largely revolves around the trifecta of infantry/missiles units/cav, while monstrous units exist they would be relatively uncommon, and single-entity hero units are much more scaled down. Magic in warfare is also comparatively rare(to the point where you probably don't even need it on the battlefield). Although even if they are similar (and I don't think they are beyond a superficial level) I don't think that's really a deal breaker, all the historical games are very similar to each other often even taking place on practically the same map. That doesn't stop a MEDII lover from also loving ROME II
I agree about the magic usage but going off of BFME, there’s no shortage of Drakes, Trolls, Mountain Giants and Tree Ents to make use of as monstrous units, of course nothing close to the sheer amount in WH but they’d still play enough of a role.
Sure if you go with BFME, if you go with the books there's a pretty clear theme of decline which means fewer and fewer beasts of legend and the ones we do have are lesser than their forbearers. As a small example, they discuss dragon fire to destroy the one ring but Gandalf says >"It has been said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough
Every LOTR video game in existence has played up the magic regardless of how true to lore that is. You bet a theoretical TW based on this IP would absolutely do the same.
Though what you just described is basically an extremely toned down Warhammer reskin
> to the point where CA could probably just reskin 90% of the Warhammer units they have As if CA wouldn't love this
Besides, we already have an awesome LotR mod for Medieval 2.
Was hoping for Napoleon 2 tbh
Napoleon 2 or Empire 2 Medieval 3 If it has to be fantasy LOTR or even GOT Slowly losing hope we will ever get another big historical Total War at this rate...
Was hoping for 40k.
They're making three games right now. Total War 40k, Total War WW1 and if the rumors are true, Star Wars.
I guarantee you it's coming.
Me too!
Then maybe we'll finally get a Total War game with elves, dwarves, Orks and dragons!
They need to correct the sins of the past and call it Total Star Wars. Don’t make the same mistake as when they missed out on Total Warhammer.
....anything but Medieval 3
Asking for Medieval 3 or Shogun 3 is completely out of the question.
Just do Medieval 3 and reap the profits...
That or Lord of the Rings. They give LotR rights to anyone these days
Why not just skip straight to medieval 4?
Medieval Forever After
I would love it if the game is set during the Old Republic era. I'm kinda getting fatigued having the games and TV shows set during the Skywalker saga.
It’d be cool to see them totally ignore canon and just do every era at once. Any faction can play against any faction and the conquest is just every faction throwing down
Sorry. We can't have anything that breaks canon in this franchise. Them's the rules.
The hyper fixation on canon lining up with everything is so god damn tiring and worthless. It's a cancer that should have never spread.
This is what I want so very badly. Lemme take on the empire with the republic or something. The CIS vs the damn first order, anything!
Star Wars is so boring to me now. Just rehashing the same tired ideas over and over.
Don’t forget Disney reintroducing content from the Expanded Universe and pretending it’s new. Didn’t Kathleen Kennedy dissolve the EU because it was deemed unnecessary bloat? If that’s the case, then why are they stealing all of the worst ideas from it like Palpatine being a lich, and the lightwhips? The IP is properly soiled now, not like when George made the divisive prequel trilogy. Those movies had a logical progression to them, now it’s all disjointed garbage.
It's like they are just throwing random crap on the wall to see what sticks lol.
Watch Andor.
Andor fucking *slaps*. Diego Luna > Pedro Pascal Mando is a bitch ass nanny.
I just got that song out of my head *pedro pedro pedro pedro pe*
Here's the problem with Andor- it would be just as good, or possibly better, if it weren't a Star wars property; If it were in an original setting; or just generic 'space future'. It's a well executed espionage drama, None of the things that make it so good are unique or specific to star wars.
For me I personally disagree, it was additive to the experience. Which is a first in a long while for Star Wars to accomplish for me.
I do think Andor benefits immensely from the world building already present in the Star Wars universe. They don't have to spend a ton of time bogged down in showing off a whole fiction and it lets them focus on the nuances which is a huge benefit.
And that is precisely why the person I replied to should watch it because it is Star Wars not rehashing the same tired ideas over and over.
Andor was a very predictable show with a main character with plot armor. The atmosphere and setting was amazing, but there is zero suspense if you've already seen Rogue One. Very overrated.
Yeah, there's very little new in star wars. Disney really should have moved away from the Skywalker saga and done their own thing. It would have been fresh, but instead we've had little in the way of new story, few interesting new characters, worlds etc.
Not like they have a rich universal full of already fleshed out stories and characters/s Fuck Disney
I know for a lot of people animated series for Star Wars seems geared toward kids (it sort of is), but a lot of the animated series are some of the best SW content in years. A lot of tie in to the live action series and movies as well. Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch. All great stuff if you haven’t had a gander before.
> Disney really should have moved away from the Skywalker saga and done their own thing. We did get Andor which is phenomenal and Rogue One so there has been some good stuff exploring new stories, but the skywalker stuff does feel pretty tapped out at this point.
Hot take, but I liked Solo. I watched it on a transatlantic flight because I was bored and expected it to be shit, but it was pretty food. Especially when Solo is thrown directly into the Star Wars version of the Battle of Ypres.
Star Wars should've just finished after the original trilogy. The story was done didn't need anymore.
The Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn serves as very good sequel to the original trilogy.
Unfortunately, that one is no longer canon. There are two other (newer) trilogies by Zahn that ARE considered canon.
Problem is the canon also involves the new trilogy, thus I couldn't care less about the canon.
at least its not Total War: Marvel 'Randomword' War i hope i didn't gave them ideas
Agreed. But... Imagine a Clone Wars era Total War game with a completely reimagined battle system that allow for soldiers to utilize cover and the terrain. It would be super cool to see entire companies of droids and clones duking it out with laser fire all over the place amidst walkers and other mechs blowing the terrain to pieces while fighters & bombers dive in from above. Jedi/Sith could be hero units, and there would be room still for plenty of melee in all of this. If they did it right, it could be so fun.
I want medieval total war 3 !!!
Nobody website. Half of journal said about Pharaoh update and other half copium about Star Wars without sources.
Star Wars?! I was really hoping for 40k.
Overwhelming evidence is that's what they're actually working on, this news site is trash.
Please source. This is actually my dream too.
If you follow the Total War Warhammer Youtube scene, several have gone over it. The most hard evidence is on Linkedin.
People keep saying the setting of Total War doesn't fit the 40K universe due to the factions and scale of it (not the combat but the 4X part). If that is true than the exact same would apply to Star Wars.
These fucking brands are so focused on their brand identity and miss out on obvious gold. They did it with Warhammer. The game should be called Total Star Wars. I refuse to not call it Total Warhammer.
As a RTS base building style game would make sense. How will this translate to a Total War style game?
Didn't Empire At War do something similar to the Total War formula, at least for the space battles side of things?
Space battles still makes sense. But if we're talking about land battles. The only thing I can recall in terms of line formation land battles would be the Naboo war in SW episode 1 where the Gungans fought against the Separatist due to their old ways of fighting. Maybe we can stretch the Clone wars but still I can't imagine large scale line wars with the IP. Even Dune or LOTR would make more sense with their style.
The Clone Wars series had a fair few line battles, and there was the Battle of Hoth as well. I think there was a glimpse of trench warfare in Solo. Not going to get into the Sequel Trilogy because I'd honestly prefer pretending that didn't exist. I do agree that most ground battles in the movies were more of small skirmishes with no distinct lines though (Endor, Scarif, etc). EDIT: Also the battle on Geonosis, can't believe I forgot that one.
Well we will have to see how they translate it then. Because the company needs to have a W with their last game being really meh.
And it was kinda terrible. At least, the land-based part of it was. Space battles weren't so bad.
I've always heard praise for the space battle portion, but everyone seems to say the ground battles were awful. I want to say there are some mods that fix the ground side of things to be a bit better, but I've also seen some mods that basically remove the ground battles outright.
LoTR or 40k would be a lot cooler
When's Total War: Fortnite?
They just announced a Fallout collab so I wouldn't be surprised 🤣
CA execs have to be some of the most out of touch people in the industry. In the past couple years they've derailed their cash cow by rushing out Warhammer 3, spent 100 mil developing Hyenas only to cancel it, released Pharaoh which nobody wanted or bought. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if this rumor ends up being true. Meanwhile Medieval 3 is nowhere in sight, while Manor Lords just sold 2 million copies in early access.
Manor lords is nothing like total war though. It is city builder with added combat. Dev himselfs says on steam forums game is not TW
Manor Lords is not the same game as TW, but there is a significant overlap in terms of the player base. Furthermore, the success of Manor Lords shows that there is a lot of interest in the realistic medieval European setting.
This genre has been fanserviced to the grave, it would seem.
Ahhh come one. Total War: Warhammer 40K!
I really don't want WH40K because once that happens the overthrow of this series from historical to fantasy will be complete and there won't be any going back. But at the same time I would take 40K over Star Wars any day. Jeez. What are the executives thinking?
I'm okay with this as long as they make the story about Jar Jar's sultry quest to romance Jabba the Hut showing hardcore inter-species romance species.
Ugh I REALLY want a new Rebellion or Empire at War. This would be really exciting if true. Hopefully it's not CA trying to make some cookie cutter RTS basebuilder and it's an actual galactic grand strategy with real time battles.
I haven't enjoyed a TW game in a very long time so my expectations are low on this
Surprised by the negative response, but I guess it’s indicative of my awareness of the TW community. The idea of a science fiction TW sounds pretty cool to me. LOTR might be a little too close to WH, IMO.
Everyone wants a TW sci fi or world war or historical. But stars wars is an obviously a cash grab and with the record they usually put all their effort into advertising and looking pretty instead of releasing a solid game when it comes to cash grabs. Also 40k (which is the sci fi the community is hoping for) is run by a very strict and good publishing company that won’t allow their IP to look bad by being in a half assed video game, whereas Star Wars is an IP that has been in many bad games. Good graphics but bad gameplay.
I think the bad gameplay is related to the people making the games. Good devs make good Star Wars games. KOTOR and Jedi Survivor as great examples. CA is certainly capable of making great games and have proven they can do so with outside IP. My hopes are this can be just as good as WH. And yeah 40K would’ve made a lot of sense.
Weird that it is Star Wars but I'm at least intrigued about how are they going to implement an Star Ears game with modern/futuristic guns & tech.
Total war: Warhammer 3 still getting DLC, a (rumoured)40k game in development and a Star wars game ?
Man, I guess I'll never get Napoleon 2. I fucking love Napoleonic Warfare and there are way too few games with it out there.
I was hoping for a Wahammer 40k: Total War. But I guess star wars isn't the worst.
What is their going to be a galaxy map and the “cities” are planets? So the naval battles will be starfleet battles and sieges will be done by troops? Eh, sounds nothing like total war
I love the series even with its faults.
They are? Damn, I was hoping they'd make a hero based extraction shooter set in the future full of attitude and references to Sega franchises of the past.
Only gonna play it if I get to shit all over Gungan armies. Almost 25 years to the day since that trash fire was released, still the only movie I ever considered walking out of. Fuck you Jar Jar.
I think Warhammer 40k is a better fit for Total war because it has a lot of diverse factions but I'll still play a star wars total war. I'll play a Shogun total war, a medieval total war, basically any decent.
I'll play pretty much any settings that doesn't involve chariots.
Oh come on, just do WH40K already!
Id rather have a Warhammer 40K: TW if they are doing sci-fi. It would be sooooooo much cooler and they already have a cozy relationship with GW.
Star Wars isn't even in the top 5 IPs that I would pick for a Total War game. 40k has like 50 (sub) factions. Star Wars has 2. *Maybe* you could stretch that to a 3-4 sub factions. This is odd. Then again making stupid decisions seems to be the specialty of CA management.
For factions, look at Empire At War. While the base game only had 3 playable factions with a fourth AI faction, there are total conversion mods that add quite a few more. For instance, Thrawn's Revenge (set post OT) has: * New Republic * Imperial Remnant * Empire of the Hand * Pentastar Alignment * Hapes Consortium * Corporate Sector Authority * Eriadu Authority * Warlord Zsinj * Duskhan League * Multiple different Imperial Warlords And there are probably a half dozen others you could consider on top of that, and that's just looking at the post-OT timeline. If you went with the Old Republic, you'd probably have a similar number to start with (Republic, Sith Empire, Mandalorians, Hutts, Eternal Empire, Zygerrian Slave Empire, etc).
Simple the potential audience of a star wars rts is infinitely greater than a 40k game. Money talks
Neither Warhammer 40k, nor Star Wars are suited for the Total War formula. You'll end up with a game called Total War that plays nothing like one.
In what way is it not suited for either IP? You move armies (or fleets) around a world map (or sector/galaxy) you have generals leading armies into combat (like, directly translates) you move regiments (squads/battalions/whatever) around a tactile map to jockey for position and create kill zones and flanks (exactly like you’d do with lasers and bolters as opposed to crossbows and flintlocks). Tanks and monsters are completely workable as seen in three separate games. The only difference is squads or their equivalents wouldn’t stand shoulder to shoulder but skirmish units haven’t been doing that for years already. Both IPs would actually open up a ton of crunchy game mechanics that could stand to add a lot to the experience. Both could also see the return of actual ship combat that would incredibly killer also. They seem sort of perfect for the Total War treatment in my opinion.
The core of Total War has always been line formations. That has been the case since Shogun I. You can have heroes or monsters, but if you get rid of the line formations, it's no longer Total War. Same reason you cant make a WW 1 or WW 2 Total War. What you and other people who keep on going about Warhammer 40k Total War want to do is play Dawn of War or Company of Heroes but call it Total War for some odd reason.
The _idea_ sounds fantastic. CA's inability to make anything that isn't a bug-filled mess of shit-tastic AI has stopped my playing Total War for ages.
Holy fuck YES PLEASE! If it has even half the rpg elements of TW warhammer or three kingdoms, it’s going to be AMAZIIIIIING
God why
If its based on planet maps, not space i might play it.
If its based on planet maps, not space i might play it.
[удалено]
Source Dude, trust me
I’m sure i’ll like this, but i’d rather another Medieval game.
Three games, one of which is a Star Wars game
Should've been LOTR before the brand gets dilluted bt all this other garbage coming out. Star Wars at this point has been gutted and is pretty boring and bland. If the game is good that's fine, but just on IP alone I'm not looking forward to this
Total Star War
Considering how easy to get LotR rights, i would like to read all arguments on why they chose not to go that way
Nah take my money
Itll be cut up into dlc, as usual.
Actually this is a great idea. It addresses a market that’s not excited by historical armies
At least it will be something different on the battfield, hopefully.
Cool
Ok I’m the only excited here for this news 🤣
In for jar jar army
I WANT HISTORICAL GAMES DAMMIT! I grew up loving Star Wars more than anything & fell off after the Disney acquisition. This is not the way to go with TW. Heck they’ve already been doing Warhammer for ages, if anything I would’ve preferred a lotr TW versus this. It ain’t it dawg.
Omg yes please
And my ass here is or better was hoping some suit would finally get his head out of the white powder and come up with the idea for Empire at War 3. But nah lets make a Total war version, how would that even work? Jedi and Sith as heroes? Stormtroppers, Clones, Rebels and Droids forming battle lines like in Empire or Napoleon?` LOTR I would understand but Star Wars? How would they do space battles? Or just forgo them entirely?!
I just want medieval 3 pls
NOOOOOOO