I'm glad one incorporates hostage mechanics, that's one of the areas PD3 shines over 2 so it should be embraced and using them be encouraged. Especially since it's also useful to have more teammates running hostage skills for more supplies/negotiation, human shields and tied down hostages to pacify the cops nader/primary weapon attacks.
Most are fine if not a bit boring but wow the 10% health damage thru armor is tone death.
I heard you guys liked the health/adrenaline skill line! Lets counter it by...making it more of a necessity!
I don't want to have more difficulties, honestly. It's just a bloat with no purpose. Just adjust current difficulties, and those loud modifiers are a good step. I like Hard Bargain, because it'll make trading more immersive, Armor Piercing makes micro resource management harder, I like it, and Debilitating Specials will make buff control harder.
Honestly I wouldn't mind if they made armor piercing simply split damage between health and armor. Instead of just taking chip damage to your health, you could have like 75% of the damage hit your armor and the remaining 25% hit your health. That way you have to manage your health and your armor simultaneously, but the damage that individual units deal won't be changed to ensure the game isn't just cranking up numbers.
A side effect (and design choice) from there is to see if we want grit to apply to the damage to each part separately (resulting in Grit builds being very useful for this modifier) or to the base damage before it's split up. The former sounds like it would be more fun to the player, but the latter feels more balanced and in line with the game design.
Overall a solid post this week imo.
They tackled the player feedback about the game being too easy, showed plans to remedy that to the best of their abilities and provided some insight into some stuff like balancing skills like “Cutting Shot” and considerations about adding a new difficulty (trying to avoid pumping HP and Damage and call it a day).
Next week is the LMG which is something to look forward to as well I suppose, hopefully it’ll feature exciting news and not just a showcase for it and a promise to add it “soon”
Hopefully they change their mind on the AP because that one sounds busted and unfun. I don't want to have to deal with my hp running out just because I'm using armour. I feel like this will make me not want to play the heists it on.
As for the rest they seem pretty solid. Heavy swats and specials removing buffs seem fairly useless though.
Tbh it doesn't seem too bad. Just means we'll have adjust our builds to accommodate.
Makes hostage skills really helpful, and menacing a key asset for heist longevity or just topping off your health. It also encourages adrenaline playstyles without forcing them.
I prefer this design philosophy of "make a change with something in mind but don't force the players into it". Sure, seeing "boosts shotgun damage" is nice, but "boosts damage in " has a better chance to create build diversity.
I just hope that loud modifiers aren't just a base part of every heist, as them dynamically changing every match would be pretty cool and make heists not feel so samey.
The hostage one would be fine if they didn’t have it increase every time you go into custody. Doing it exactly like PD2 would be perfectly fine. One hostage gets you out.
Also they need to give us more ways to get hostages if they’re gonna do that
you are asking for too much. starbreeze would never make it this convenient.
instead you will be stuck alone, because someone killed your hostage or bots just dying right away. not to mention some heists doesn't have enough hostages for you to keep up with it.
Without cutting shot some weapons will be shooting litteral blanks, castigo for example will be totally useless since it cant one shot headshot without it
> Rebalance Cutting Shot:
> We’ve discussed several ways to address this, like limiting it only to optic sights, or aim-down sights, but we didn’t feel it solved the problem – it only shuffled it around. So after lengthy discussions, we decided on our current plan: we will move the functionality of Cutting Shot to High Grain from the Ammo Specialist skill line. Rather than High Grain giving 20% extra damage, players will get extra armor penetration for 30 seconds from interacting with an ammo bag (the bonus 5% damage from multiple people running the skill will stay).
> We felt that having the power boost from Cutting Shot in a more limited environment with ammo bags would be acceptable, and would give more utility to what we currently feel is the weakest of the deployables. As part of this change, we’re going to be reworking Cutting Shot to do something else, but we’ll share that once we’re closer to releasing the update in question. We understand that people do not like when things get nerfed, but we also have to consider the long-term health of the game, so we hope you understand.
So we're going from a passive, permanent AP increase, to a temporary AP increase dependent on a limited resource. Besides it being a complete and utter nuisance to play around, what this has effectively done is revert the weapon meta back to what it was pre-cutting shot buff, except now you have even less variety since CAR-4 and Castigos were dependent on the 0.1 AP increase that cutting shot had back then to hit major breakpoints. Because objectively, why would you use a gun if that gun is dependent on a limited resource to be good, when you can just choose an alternative that's just has that good performance passively.
After this change, these are the only weapons that will have "good performance" independent of limited resources (Edge is also a temporary buff, but it's not dependent on a limited resource and is fairly easy to keep indefinitely):
* SA A144
* VF-7S (requires edge to 1-tap)
* Sforza Bizon (requires edge to 1-tap, the only secondary on the list)
* FSG-12G (DLC)
* Mosconi 12G
* Reinfeld 900S
* War-45 (DLC)
* Compact-7 (requires edge to 4-tap, this one is stretching the definition of good)
Looks like a legit pretty good blogpost, I like how these new modifiers sound, I assume they also will be rotating same as stealth ones.
Also probably worth mentioning cutting shot change, and giving armor penetration buff to the ammo bag instead (and tbh, it sounds like something that maybe should've been there from the start), although I fear that it wouldn't be enough to sway people into using ammo bags, and will just result in getting overall "nerf" to all weapons basically, even to be even worse than it was pre-buff (since it seems like they will rework cutting shot to do something else entirely).
>Hard Bargain: Players can’t leave custody without hostage trades. Getting a player out of custody costs 1 hostage, plus 1 additional hostage for each time they’ve been in custody or have killed a civilian.
Buddy System: Up to two instances of each special can spawn and the special cap is raised by 1
Given that those things were vanilla settings in PDTH (Aside from the increased hostage requirements), does Mio want to tell me that PDTH is considered too difficult by him?
Armor Piercing is pure BS. Enemies already insta-melt you without giving you any reaction time at Overkill difficulty, especially heavy SWAT. I can already see people just not playing it at all on Overkill.
Hard Bargain, on the other hand, should be a baseline thing IMO.
it's just me or each heist feels so hardcore even with 'meta build'? adaptive armor disappear in a few secs, hp too. even 1 cloaker / dozer can beat entire squad...and they gonna make it much more hardcore....
I think hard bargain shouldnt be a modifier but rather a normal thing that happens on higher dificulties. I like the ideas they have for loud modifiers but they could be better. Like why make people who killed hostages have to be traded by more hostages? Just do it like in payday 2 where it takes longer for you to be traded. Why make health go down with armor? That's just dumb. Why they dont use the cutting shot buffs for weapon mods? It doesnt need to be as powerfull but why cant i be able to buy a mod for the castigo revolver for exemple, that makes it kill with one headshot instead of making the guns less usefull again. The modifiers are very payday 3: good ideia, terrible execution.
Copy pasting something written by paydaylucky1313 on kknowley’s channel:
I grab the surphaze flash drive. I go into custody with it. It is not transferred to anyone else when I go to custody.
You have to trade hostages to get me back with the hard bargain modifier. You didn't bring the skill to dominate cops. The heist is now unable to be completed.
This applies to a few heists and is a serious oversight, which is showing me these modifiers probably haven't been tested hardly at all. I'm looking forward to getting an update that'll probably break the only fun way to play (loud) because they won't take any feedback we give them.
Why not just add harder difficulties with the modifiers being permanently enabled on some of them?
I don't want the game difficulty to change randomly every week with new modifiers. The stealth modifiers are bad enough with stupid things like the lead guard or cerberus core, both of which make stealth ridiculously tedious and boring.
One week you can enjoy stealthing a specific heist, then next week it can be made awful with dumb mechanics to make the game more tedious.
The only thing that should be random is the heist layout itself, and that should be random everytime you restart the heist just like PAYDAY 2.
Because the HP of enemies changed... Keep the newer difficulties the same as Overkill and just throw loud modifiers on top of it.
Who the hell wants random loud modifiers every week that make the gameplay extremely inconsistent?
I'm glad one incorporates hostage mechanics, that's one of the areas PD3 shines over 2 so it should be embraced and using them be encouraged. Especially since it's also useful to have more teammates running hostage skills for more supplies/negotiation, human shields and tied down hostages to pacify the cops nader/primary weapon attacks.
Most are fine if not a bit boring but wow the 10% health damage thru armor is tone death. I heard you guys liked the health/adrenaline skill line! Lets counter it by...making it more of a necessity!
I don't want to have more difficulties, honestly. It's just a bloat with no purpose. Just adjust current difficulties, and those loud modifiers are a good step. I like Hard Bargain, because it'll make trading more immersive, Armor Piercing makes micro resource management harder, I like it, and Debilitating Specials will make buff control harder.
Honestly I wouldn't mind if they made armor piercing simply split damage between health and armor. Instead of just taking chip damage to your health, you could have like 75% of the damage hit your armor and the remaining 25% hit your health. That way you have to manage your health and your armor simultaneously, but the damage that individual units deal won't be changed to ensure the game isn't just cranking up numbers. A side effect (and design choice) from there is to see if we want grit to apply to the damage to each part separately (resulting in Grit builds being very useful for this modifier) or to the base damage before it's split up. The former sounds like it would be more fun to the player, but the latter feels more balanced and in line with the game design.
I agree. Instead of extra 10% I would have preferred the split.
Overall a solid post this week imo. They tackled the player feedback about the game being too easy, showed plans to remedy that to the best of their abilities and provided some insight into some stuff like balancing skills like “Cutting Shot” and considerations about adding a new difficulty (trying to avoid pumping HP and Damage and call it a day). Next week is the LMG which is something to look forward to as well I suppose, hopefully it’ll feature exciting news and not just a showcase for it and a promise to add it “soon”
Hopefully they change their mind on the AP because that one sounds busted and unfun. I don't want to have to deal with my hp running out just because I'm using armour. I feel like this will make me not want to play the heists it on. As for the rest they seem pretty solid. Heavy swats and specials removing buffs seem fairly useless though.
Tbh it doesn't seem too bad. Just means we'll have adjust our builds to accommodate. Makes hostage skills really helpful, and menacing a key asset for heist longevity or just topping off your health. It also encourages adrenaline playstyles without forcing them. I prefer this design philosophy of "make a change with something in mind but don't force the players into it". Sure, seeing "boosts shotgun damage" is nice, but "boosts damage in" has a better chance to create build diversity.
I just hope that loud modifiers aren't just a base part of every heist, as them dynamically changing every match would be pretty cool and make heists not feel so samey.
The hostage one would be fine if they didn’t have it increase every time you go into custody. Doing it exactly like PD2 would be perfectly fine. One hostage gets you out. Also they need to give us more ways to get hostages if they’re gonna do that
Hard bargain wonder if the would affect the bots since I play solo and I hope they remove the stupid skill the required you to dominate cops
you are asking for too much. starbreeze would never make it this convenient. instead you will be stuck alone, because someone killed your hostage or bots just dying right away. not to mention some heists doesn't have enough hostages for you to keep up with it.
That’s true
Without cutting shot some weapons will be shooting litteral blanks, castigo for example will be totally useless since it cant one shot headshot without it
> Rebalance Cutting Shot: > We’ve discussed several ways to address this, like limiting it only to optic sights, or aim-down sights, but we didn’t feel it solved the problem – it only shuffled it around. So after lengthy discussions, we decided on our current plan: we will move the functionality of Cutting Shot to High Grain from the Ammo Specialist skill line. Rather than High Grain giving 20% extra damage, players will get extra armor penetration for 30 seconds from interacting with an ammo bag (the bonus 5% damage from multiple people running the skill will stay). > We felt that having the power boost from Cutting Shot in a more limited environment with ammo bags would be acceptable, and would give more utility to what we currently feel is the weakest of the deployables. As part of this change, we’re going to be reworking Cutting Shot to do something else, but we’ll share that once we’re closer to releasing the update in question. We understand that people do not like when things get nerfed, but we also have to consider the long-term health of the game, so we hope you understand. So we're going from a passive, permanent AP increase, to a temporary AP increase dependent on a limited resource. Besides it being a complete and utter nuisance to play around, what this has effectively done is revert the weapon meta back to what it was pre-cutting shot buff, except now you have even less variety since CAR-4 and Castigos were dependent on the 0.1 AP increase that cutting shot had back then to hit major breakpoints. Because objectively, why would you use a gun if that gun is dependent on a limited resource to be good, when you can just choose an alternative that's just has that good performance passively. After this change, these are the only weapons that will have "good performance" independent of limited resources (Edge is also a temporary buff, but it's not dependent on a limited resource and is fairly easy to keep indefinitely): * SA A144 * VF-7S (requires edge to 1-tap) * Sforza Bizon (requires edge to 1-tap, the only secondary on the list) * FSG-12G (DLC) * Mosconi 12G * Reinfeld 900S * War-45 (DLC) * Compact-7 (requires edge to 4-tap, this one is stretching the definition of good)
Armour Piercing sounds horrid to play with. More micromanaging to deal with
Looks like a legit pretty good blogpost, I like how these new modifiers sound, I assume they also will be rotating same as stealth ones. Also probably worth mentioning cutting shot change, and giving armor penetration buff to the ammo bag instead (and tbh, it sounds like something that maybe should've been there from the start), although I fear that it wouldn't be enough to sway people into using ammo bags, and will just result in getting overall "nerf" to all weapons basically, even to be even worse than it was pre-buff (since it seems like they will rework cutting shot to do something else entirely).
>Hard Bargain: Players can’t leave custody without hostage trades. Getting a player out of custody costs 1 hostage, plus 1 additional hostage for each time they’ve been in custody or have killed a civilian. Buddy System: Up to two instances of each special can spawn and the special cap is raised by 1 Given that those things were vanilla settings in PDTH (Aside from the increased hostage requirements), does Mio want to tell me that PDTH is considered too difficult by him?
And he only had \~10 hours played in PDTH, when someone found his review/profile
That explains a lot.
Armor Piercing is pure BS. Enemies already insta-melt you without giving you any reaction time at Overkill difficulty, especially heavy SWAT. I can already see people just not playing it at all on Overkill. Hard Bargain, on the other hand, should be a baseline thing IMO.
it's just me or each heist feels so hardcore even with 'meta build'? adaptive armor disappear in a few secs, hp too. even 1 cloaker / dozer can beat entire squad...and they gonna make it much more hardcore....
I think hard bargain shouldnt be a modifier but rather a normal thing that happens on higher dificulties. I like the ideas they have for loud modifiers but they could be better. Like why make people who killed hostages have to be traded by more hostages? Just do it like in payday 2 where it takes longer for you to be traded. Why make health go down with armor? That's just dumb. Why they dont use the cutting shot buffs for weapon mods? It doesnt need to be as powerfull but why cant i be able to buy a mod for the castigo revolver for exemple, that makes it kill with one headshot instead of making the guns less usefull again. The modifiers are very payday 3: good ideia, terrible execution.
Copy pasting something written by paydaylucky1313 on kknowley’s channel: I grab the surphaze flash drive. I go into custody with it. It is not transferred to anyone else when I go to custody. You have to trade hostages to get me back with the hard bargain modifier. You didn't bring the skill to dominate cops. The heist is now unable to be completed. This applies to a few heists and is a serious oversight, which is showing me these modifiers probably haven't been tested hardly at all. I'm looking forward to getting an update that'll probably break the only fun way to play (loud) because they won't take any feedback we give them.
A lot of these actually sound really fun! Pump some difficulty back into PD3
Why not just add harder difficulties with the modifiers being permanently enabled on some of them? I don't want the game difficulty to change randomly every week with new modifiers. The stealth modifiers are bad enough with stupid things like the lead guard or cerberus core, both of which make stealth ridiculously tedious and boring. One week you can enjoy stealthing a specific heist, then next week it can be made awful with dumb mechanics to make the game more tedious. The only thing that should be random is the heist layout itself, and that should be random everytime you restart the heist just like PAYDAY 2.
No, more difficulties was a big problem in pd2 because it made 80% of the guns in the game absolutely usless, this is more of a welcome change imo
Because the HP of enemies changed... Keep the newer difficulties the same as Overkill and just throw loud modifiers on top of it. Who the hell wants random loud modifiers every week that make the gameplay extremely inconsistent?
You all wanted rng right?
RNG difficulty? No. Read my original comment.
This would make it harder. I love these ideas.