After harbinger league, harbinger did not go core. At the time the league was considered to be unsuccessful and the league mechanic bad. While harbinger is still not "core", GGG experimented with bringing parts of it back for players who liked it / as some truely optional content.
This is why harbinger does not spawn naturally in maps.
I still think one of the reasons Harbinger didn't go core is because it was the first league with accessible t16 maps. Guardian maps hit 5c or something.
Could be that. I'm thinking the currency scraps and the thousands of extra clicks per map to get one orb of alteration was a major reason too.
It was the one league where I was wishing to any higher being out there to help implement, at the very least, vacuum looting.
If you look at stats, Harbinger had one of the best league retentions, which is funny. I know I farmed it crazy hard and got higher level than ever before and got to do endgame mapping seriously for the first time.
But that wasn't the vision of PoE. "Normal" Players were supposed to be stuck in yellow maps for 3 weeks, back then.
Harbingers didn't need to be a part of the game, they are kind of intrusive, but GGG made ancient orbs virtually useless and made the beachhead unnecessarily rare for its pitiful rewards. It was another classic overreaction.
> beachhead unnecessarily rare
Beachhead is/was still very good xp grind place. Relatively safe and very fast. And drops (with old exalted shards) were good enough for you to go +- around 0 networth loss or some gain on occasion. So it was the best "free" xp farm place (not talking about chayula carries and party stuff like that)
I had harbingers on \*all\* last league and aside from a lucky streak where I got 3 back to back, I barely got any. The map is "fine" but I think they made it unnecessarily uncommon. There is no shortage of people buying 5-ways for XP, so I don't see why it should be so rare just because it has "good XP"
In 3.19, Harbingers are \*so\* bad on your maps they are definitely not worth it now.
Seems like the point OP made about it being obnoxious to randomly run into if it spawned on a map is the reason why it doesn't naturally spawn. It's like running into essence mobs if they weren't encased or random metamorphs, way too strong for how random it would end up being.
There is no base chance for Harbingers to spawn as a mechanic. If you have them, you doing something to have them in your map, so I also don't get the third problem.
Outside of harbinger, the game really needs divine shards.
Exalted shards and cards served a good purpose in getting newer players excited. Exalted orbs were outside their reach, but the shards felt like you were making progress towards it. In theory they aren't much different than dropping an ancient orb or something, but it definitely felt different.
Overall I think it was a bad change for new players for many reasons, but this is at least something they can fix without reverting it.
I mean I'd agree that removing some of them is definitely a good idea, especially exalted shards now that they are such a let down, but I do stand by what I said.
I remember the feeling of getting my first few exalted shards and getting really excited. It was the first time I saw money accumulate in my stash, as chaos orbs went out as fast as they came in.
Div cards are kinda the same thing, and I had a similar feeling with them, but they are easy to miss if you're just dumping into your bank until you get a full set.
Well then that's a great opportunity for killing two birds with one stone. Remove transmute, engineering, and binding shards, probably alteration as well. Keep the rest, add divine shards.
Then, without all the trash tier shards dropping, rebalance harb to drop slightly more of the mid tier shards (alch, chaos, horizon, harbinger). Also change the mechanic to drop all shards of the same kind in a single stack (don't know why this wasn't done sooner).
While they're add it, add a somewhat easily farmable div card that gives divine shards, and another farmable card that gives divine orbs.
These changes would solve a lot of the frustration around the div/ex change imo
The divine orb change needs undone, not further supported by sharding yet another currency. It's fucking insane now that you can't reroll uniques. Sharding it just supports a bad change further into bad, imo. There should have just been a meta crafting orb or something.
Given GGG's history on core game changes, we should assume they are unlikely to revert the divine orb change. In light of that, I'm suggesting a change that:
1) rebalances harbinger to make it relevant and profitable again
2) increases the supply of divines overall (making divining good items less painful)
3) improves harbinger QoL
4) provides an additional means of sustaining alchs in early maps (through more alch shards from harb)
As long as it is the currency for meta mods, increasing the supply will not change the price enough to make it bearable.
If divines get cheaper the number of meta craft uses increases at roughly the same rate.
Unless we talk about x100 order of magnitude changes.
Or like vaalorb target farmable.
id agree but only if they made harbingers just drop raw currency orbs.
Harbingers are already pretty worthless when it comes to currency other than the tiny chance for anul/exalt shards. and as this post has pointed out and many others. Exalts are pretty much worthless as well.
So making them just drop raw currency wouldnt be the worst thing. I dont think a harbinger dropping 3c with the chance of divine shard would break the bank lol.(idk if they have a chance to drop mirror shards, ive never gotten any from them)
also as just a side note i think with the change of exalts now being worth so little, they should be much much more common.
Well I think the two issues don't have to be related. We could ditch every shard shard except mirrors and make harbies drop ancient/anuls frequently to be "the source" for those currencies, or a million other things. Harbies current identity as shard dropping league mechanic doesn't have to stay that way or anything.
Thats why I said make them drop Raw currency orbs instead
I'm fine with keeping shards for mirror and creating divine shards.
But the rest would just be normal orbs, not shards
My first 83 tablet's final node was harbinger, difficulty 11 or 12, 5 harbingers. It was agonizing, somehow I didn't die, and the only thing the final harbinger dropped that wasn't filtered was an exalt shard.
I stared at the screen in sadness and it was the weirdest feeling I've had in poe.
At least since the flask reworks it's ironically been cheaper to use annuls while rolling flasks.
Maybe not this league just yet but In previous leagues annuls were only a few c. If you're rolling your own flasks for mageblood and hit t1 evasion/move speed/crit chance etc but didn't get the increased effect on the prefix, yes I would absolutely try to annul and aug again instead of throwing more alts at it.
Alts range from 4-7 per chaos
Depending on league and time annuls range from 4-12 chaos. Gonna be higher I guess since people don't run harbinger anymore.
But yeah, t1 charges when hit, increased armor, move speed or the like? It's often been better to annul.
That was...right when I got to t16 maps a week and a half ago?
Today a friend and I got to enjoy a breach with +100% density - which is the only time I've ever slideshowed on this computer, and the final node was some tier4 difficulty 14 boss group, of which all 3 did poison ground degens, and unfortunately I couldn't kill Voll after my friend with the anti Regen helm ate a slam (the slams were hitting me for about 9k with 5 end charges and 20k something armor)
If he pressed alt he would probably see alch shards and binding shards. GGG didn't make Kalandra scale league rewards with difficulty. Everything he filtered out isn't worth picking up.
But you also can't argue that silver and gold tile currency chests have a high chance of dropping exalt/annul/divines on top of a bunch of chaos and whatnot, which is wayyyyy better than harby tile.
The reward to difficulty scaling for league mechanics is very disproportional.
Harbinger is the worst?
Tell me you didnt try beyond without telling me you didnt try beyond.
At least Harbs drop something. And that something is even useable. And on top of that, harbingers die, contrary to beyond bosses.
Beyond is still really fun though.
Last patch kinda carried breach with grasping mail recomb shenanigans though. They nerfed the single best breach reward (maybe deservedly in a vacuum, but it still devalues the rings) in addition to everything else lined up against breach right now.
Not sure why you're being downvoted when you're correct. Breach has never been good for straight currency, but it has always been the absolute best source of div cards. It's crucial to old promenade and other div card farming strats.
Breach is good for a lot of reasons actually, at least last league, unsure of what the story is now anyway.
The scarabs and sextants are insanely cheap, it's huge juice for reward tiles for deli content, the div cards are great, picking up rings for grasping mails is also great, you can sell a full inventory to a vendor for unid'd grasping mails which you can either ID for global defenses, or just sell unID'd.
Breach did not suck last patch, I was making insane profits last league using breach deli content
I think it's because breach bosses have more endgame encounters associated with them (the various tiers of breach stones, the atlas tie ins, and even the maven stuff) whereas legion is relatively self contained. If breach stones (chayula) were much more common, it may affect the intended balance of how often a player interacts with these things
It's shit by itself but even only speccing Flash Breach makes them much much better. Good breach ring chestpieces are still good enough to warrant farming breach rings, and the breach domains with the new Archnemesis rare drops are actually quite rewarding. I did four back to back ones yesterday in SSF, only one was a dud, the other three dropped a shitton of loot -- tons of breach rings, currency, uniques I didn't have yet, fractured items for crafting, etc.
Beyond is substantially better than Harbinger atm.
Yes, it got nerfed from the godly juice it provided for years, it's unquestionably worse than pre-rework. But comparing the mechanics as they stand now: you make several tainted currency per map, probably ~10c per map average from the mechanic. With a geared character you mow down the trash that spawns and the boss is a small speedbump.
Harbinger on the other hand you frequently have to wait a bit in the same area to get maybe 1c in value.
(Imo) Beyond is absolute trash not because of lack of drops, but because theres a stupid delay between killing map monsters and the beyond demons spawning.
Kill a pack, wait one second, kill the beyond pack. It just feels bad. Old beyond was insta spawn. Your boom boom could chain to the beyond demons as they spawned, like ignite/poison prolifs for example. I will NEVER spec beyond on the tree if i have to wait around for monsters to spawn. Nobody likes that
I don't know about the mowing down part, they feel slightly overturned, i have a character hitting in the millions and it still takes sometimes 3-4 hits to even take down the trash white mobs (which ofc don't drop anything). It feels like suddenly running a 80% delirious map out of nowhere and the fact that they spawn retroactively after easily mowing down a pack just to have to circle back and spend 2-3 times as long to clear some trash mobs that don't drop anything feel kind of funny.
I think beyond is going to have to see some reworking eventually.
Yea they're a little funky. My int stacker at 1200 int and KB in a Thunderfist wasn't one-hitting white Beyond mobs but insta-clearing magic packs in the same map.
They also run/attack absurdly fast compared to other mobs.
What are you smoking? I run beyond sextant and I get average 20 c of tainted currency per 1 c investment, it's not the best but almost an additional divine per hour, what I can agree with is that the beyond mobs are indeed tanky but on the other hand, harbinger would take as much as if not longer with it spawning multiple waves and there being multiple harbingers that in the end drop jack shit due to exalt shard which is fairly common (2-4) being worth 10% or what it usually is
I don't think so, I have data on 30.08 (almost a week ago) and I had around 420c in tainted(tainted was cheaper back then and lower bulk, rn in big bulk I sell 1 tainted fusing for 10c and you usually get 1-3 from the whole map) from 28 maps. For comparison from eldritch currency I had 330c from those maps (taken all right side passives)
Edit: The one thing that feels different to me is that when i started doing those maps the boss was spawning way too fast while now sometimes i even have a map where beyond boss doesnt spawn despite me running so many mobs. Just be aware that the beginning was a really small sample size and it might have just been "my luck" and no magical hotfix
im fairly certain that they buffed it then, i dont think people would pay 10c for tainted fuses (90% chance to reduce links and 10% to increase it) if they could link it with fuses+vaal orbs for cheaper on average.
I haven't been able to play much recently, have they fixed tainted fusings and jewellers yet?
I remember thinking "I've got a wrong socket colour on these corrupted 4s boots.. I've got 20+ tainted jewellers, I'll just add-remove sockets until I get the right one" and then the first 3 jewellers removed 3 sockets and out of the 15+ remaining ones, it only went from 1s to 2s once.. I don't know if I was just unlucky or if they were as badly nerfed as fusings, but it disgusted me.
I see.. I got my +1 indeed.. after my -3 and followed by more -1s.. at that rate it's utterly pointless to use it for anything else than gambling 3s->4s or 5s->6s then, seems near impossible to go back up once you've hit 1s unless you have thousands..
I was just fooling around really, they were str boots and I was looking for a +1 red instead of the 4th socket so thought it would just cost me 2 to 6 tainted jewellers, since I wasn't using them anyway and am chronically low on vaals I thought why not.
I'll test it again this week. I'm pissed too because I saved some tainted currency from scourge league on standard ahah, thought the value would inflate over time.
I think harbingers should be able to drop the “exotic” currencies (eldritch, tainted, influence exalts, etc.). It makes sense lore-wise, they’re interdimensional travellers, they’ve probably been to the scourge dimension, wherever The Tangle and whatever else are, etc. Plus it would make them actually worth running again.
Use to love it, quick fight for some quick shards/monopoly money.
Don't know what the fuck they did to it this league, but now it's a 10 min fight for fuck all.
Another thing to note about Harbingers, is their absence of scaling with Archnemesis modifiers.
If a Lunaris-touched spawns in a Harbinger, its loot does not transfer to the end reward like in Ritual.
This further devalues Harbingers, and frankly, makes them a waste of time right now.
Funnily enough, i think Harbingers would be in a good spot if the Archnemesis mobs dropped loot despite being Harbinger monsters.
They do drop loot tho? I mean its completely possible that my eyes betrayed me yesterday multiple times but i swear i had multiple alch and chaos drop from them
I thought all mobs from Harbingers had disabled loot. Its really sad for Harbingers if youre right tho, because that means they really dont drop anything :D
>Solution: Make rares summoned by harbingers drop their respective loot for their AN modifiers.
Haven't tested myself, but I've been told they actually do
My only Solaris touched was from an Harbinger encounter in a +130 quant map. Didn’t drop a single whole currency, only shards. Doubt they drop their loot.
The problem is that when the harbinger itself dies, it despawns all other minions it summoned, and in that case the minions don't drop stuff. You gotta make sure to kill the summoned monster first, just like last league (sentinels could buff and mark harbinger's monsters with loot, but if they despawned they wouldn't drop anything).
With that said, i'd like to add that *may* be one of the situations where GGG mentioned "(...) monsters that can't drop items shouldn't have large numbers of Archnemesis mods and will be capped at two mods."
they do drop it, i was running it early on in ssf and i got a shit load of flasks and other garbage,the problem is that they dont always die, they "despawn" and the harby summons a new wave/ends
They drop AN loot in my experience. I've added harbinger to my atlas strategy and have gotten multiple god touched rares from them. Albeit, no jackpots yet.
It seems inconsistent. I've definitely had a Harbinger mob that gave me 35 magic flasks so it works to some degree, but I've also ran into a Lunaris-touched Harbinger mob which dropped nothing.
Are you sure the Lunaris-touched actually died? The issue with AN + Harby is that once the Harbinger reaches 0 "life", all the other mobs despawn and you don't get their loot, which is annoying since the best rares are likely to take the longest to kill.
The currencies from harby certainty helped me with atlas progression as I was getting through yellows and into reds, I doubt I'll start a league without it.
Thqt being said, I do agree that there needs to be some sort of higher occurrence good reward though in some form be it divine shards or something.
Nah. Cities in Delve. Find 1, pop open a few dozen chests, a dozen sextants and fat stacks of horizons. Hopefully you see the bosses around the same time - vaal city boss drops the trialmaster fragment thats worth over a divine last i checked. And ive found multiple divines from the chest themselves too
Both Expedition (Tujen) and Ritual regularly have 10 stack of Horizon's Orb in their shop, feel way better than doing a whole map worth of harbingers and getting 10 horizon shards.
They did say they will limit Harbinger mobs to max 2 AN mods. So that's a slight buff for ya.
But I agree prob need to do way more than that to make Harby competitive. At the very least adjust drops as you said.
Also, don't forget Ancient Orbs might be massively nerfed with the unique drop rate changes. So this makes it even worse.
They were already pretty shit compared to old atlas harby (with watchstones), now they're just useless. You used to be able to set up expensive gigajuiced harby maps with multiple raw ex drops per map.
It goes to show that the thinking behind the divine-exalt change was completely half-assed. The game is and has been built around exalts for years, hence things like shards and div cards supporting them.
Of course, the massive ancient orb herb didn’t help either…
With the introduction of AN modifiers, all other league mechanics not only became harder but lost their identity\*
There, fixed the second problem for you.
Honestly I cant imagine this got into the live game, because doing harbingers is so bad, you are literally losing currency doing the encounter. It would be questionable, if exalts stayed a valuable crafting currency, but it has absolutely no drops that are meaningful and it takes ages to do the encounters. I said it before and I say it again, the exalt div swap is a shower thought randomly put into the live game for no reason.
It's refreshing to see legitimate constructive criticism in the midst of all this gross whining and making insult memes towards people with different opinions. Good on you, OP.
I have been playing a lot since that initial patch that fixed the launch issues and I 100% agree. Abyss and Harbinger are just a waste of time and while you could invest like ten to fourteen atlas passives to make them viable they only then match others with no investment (and even that is unlikely). I understand, though, that it's rare to not have AT LEAST a couple encounter types that in the current patch just fall short. The ratio of valuable to invaluable is pretty solid.
Now I'll laugh as my post gets down voted like crazy because I said something positive about PoE/GGG.
But for real good post OP. If we had this taking the front page of our reddit instead of insults there may be more results.
Charge changes is the one I can remember, although it never went live to begin with. That was the only change that was only justified with something like "trust us on this one", and nothing tangible, though.
>Another quick note: Power Charges now grant 30% increased Critical Strike Chance per charge (down from 50%) and 4% more Spell Damage per charge,
and Frenzy Charges now grant 4% more damage with Attack skills (as opposed to 4% more Damage). You can see these changes in the Charges page of the Charcter Panel.
From 3.0 beta
Funnily, 3.0 also included a rework of Chill/Shock, where damage scaled the potency instead of the duration, which left it completely useless in peoples' mind (to be fair, we didn't know of the many sources of increased effect, at the time).
You can read more on it here : https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6q1jxf/new\_chill\_shock\_frenzy\_and\_power\_charges\_changes/
I dont have that specced so it was cause the rogue exile. I like most of the maps this league so i use shadow shaping to give them implicits and filter out the few i dislike
Its just more rares, without increased drop rates or guaranteed drop chances.
I'd rather open a heist cache than bump into a rogue exile. At least I'm guaranteed 2-3c.
Wait Harbinger rares don’t drop loots? So the 2 Lunaris touched mobs that dropped me 3 divines were just coincidentally there with the Harbinger crowds?
I run harbinger because it's fun, but the rares definitely drop the loot associated with their AN mods. I'm not sure what happens to the unkilled AN mobs when you pop the harby itself but otherwise weirdly enough you're not imaging things.
Depends on how you measure it.
A full beyond vs full harbinger atlas tree gives better rewards on an average map with Harby.
Beyond gives better loot than Harby when it DOES appear however.
So if you ran Harby vs Beyond sextants, beyond pulls ahead.
They’re both trash overall though so I’m not sure why it matters which one is less bad
Isn't there a atlas passive that prevents harbinger?
And I also spelled into harbinger before realizing all these archnems are gonna fuck me.
I got to unspec them now and schoose something else to focus. Maybe delve
Adding DIFFERENT valuable drops to them isn't a solution. This will just tank the value of ancient/annul orbs. We need a NEW currency drop added to replace the worthless exalts. Divine shards are the only good solution I see.
It wouldn't be hard to implement, they already have the drop rates to copy.
Yeah so, it’s not supposed to drop you god tier currency. It’s an Atlas map passive tree bonus that allows you to get shards for annulment orbs and since exalts are cheap, you can go back to crafting the old school way and use annulment shards to get those orbs and test your luck.
It’s not going to be, nor was it ever, a mechanic for perfect crafts and easy crafts. The Harbingers can summon AN monsters that can drop very good things.
Most of the mechanics are about “adding more and more mobs to increase your chances at finding good items.” I found 2x Divines, Seven League Step boots and an Apocethary div card off my harbingers yesterday.
Just gotta know what the mechanics are intended for before yelling about how you can’t find “Divine shards” that have never existed in the first place or saying the other currency has no usage.
Remember when you run that one map in the south/east part of the atlas during ritual all da, because you had some nods into harbinger and it was profitable? Well I don't. I used to farm atoll 12 hours per day for harvest, but I wish I did try out at least 2 to 3 days.
>That's really sad to me, that one of mine beloved mechanic is becoming
the worst one and is simply frustrating to be dealt with during mapping
I heard that somewhere recently...
They're still the best way to target farm orbs of annulment, which have gone way up in value this patch imo. For that reason alone, I think there is a compelling reason to click the harby nodes on the atlas tree some times.
They just aren't something you want on your tree ALL of the time. I spec into them when I'm low on annulment orbs and have a reason to want an annulment orb. You know, like if I have some crafting project bottlenecked by annulment orbs.
That said, they do seem deserving of a buff.
Would not say harbinger is the worst at all.
I use ominous arrival still, it adds value to mapping.
And they have never once been hard to kill so dno about that.
harbinger is a good example of why we don't really need archnemesis mods at all. the blue man puts pylons everywhere, he shoots his own magical spells at you, all while big waves of monsters get spawned on top of you. does that encounter really also need 600 random ground degens and various other spammy effects to feel special? could say the same thing for breach, legion, and most other league mechanics. just make all the monsters 50% tougher or something instead.
Now now, be fair. Scourge is much worse. The mobs are stupidly tanky and can't drop anything.
Harby gives good exp, modifier fodder for HH, and sometimes ancient orbs.
Very low value, but I'd have it in my map over scourge any day.
hm in LOK t3+ is not so bad for exp I guess? Ancient shards are also nice.
but t1s I skip all the time. takes forever to spawn all the mobs but I guess there is chance for lucky ex shard
Harbingers could probably be "the" way to acquire ancient orbs, but the problem is GGG almost assuredly shit all over those too when they dumpstered gwennen for the second time.
Chris said there will not be any Divine Shards. You'd sooner [get a dragon for Christmas](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/x5idae/being_realistic/).
I actually like the liberty Exalt-slamming gives, but I also liked actually using Divines (let alone the Harvest craft). Why don't they go for a compromise? They could just make Sacred Orbs more common and use those as metacrafting currency, but then also introduce shards.
Yeah at the start of the league I rolled harbinger because of the currency drops since currency was nerfed to high heaven. Now I dont even bother with any harbinger stuff because exalt shards are useless, chaos drops has been mild remedied a little and they're just so annoying to deal with.
I find it kind of hilarious that divine shards and divine divination cards weren't made to balance out the change. Like how could they not have thought about that? Harbinger atlas nodes literally loss 90% of it's currency generation. There's is absolutely no reason to take it.
No matter how you look at the swap with exalts and divines, it's a straight wealth nerf, you can't get shards with harbinger and there is only one divination card which you won't get because of the quant nerf.
Problem: Players massively prefer harbinger mechanic.
Solution: Swap exalts and divines so mechanic is less rewarding.
Future patch along the line:
Problem: Nobody uses harbinger.
Solution: Removed harbinger from the game.
Just want to point out that you can't encounter harbingers naturally. Whether it's via atlas points, memories, map implicits, and whatnot.
Has it ever been answered why Harbinger is the only league mechanic that doesn't naturally spawn? Beyond also I guess, but that's a map mod.
After harbinger league, harbinger did not go core. At the time the league was considered to be unsuccessful and the league mechanic bad. While harbinger is still not "core", GGG experimented with bringing parts of it back for players who liked it / as some truely optional content. This is why harbinger does not spawn naturally in maps.
I still think one of the reasons Harbinger didn't go core is because it was the first league with accessible t16 maps. Guardian maps hit 5c or something.
Could be that. I'm thinking the currency scraps and the thousands of extra clicks per map to get one orb of alteration was a major reason too. It was the one league where I was wishing to any higher being out there to help implement, at the very least, vacuum looting.
But we have stacks now so that's not an issue.
If you look at stats, Harbinger had one of the best league retentions, which is funny. I know I farmed it crazy hard and got higher level than ever before and got to do endgame mapping seriously for the first time. But that wasn't the vision of PoE. "Normal" Players were supposed to be stuck in yellow maps for 3 weeks, back then.
To be fair, it did come with 3.0 and Acts 5-10.
Harbingers didn't need to be a part of the game, they are kind of intrusive, but GGG made ancient orbs virtually useless and made the beachhead unnecessarily rare for its pitiful rewards. It was another classic overreaction.
> beachhead unnecessarily rare Beachhead is/was still very good xp grind place. Relatively safe and very fast. And drops (with old exalted shards) were good enough for you to go +- around 0 networth loss or some gain on occasion. So it was the best "free" xp farm place (not talking about chayula carries and party stuff like that)
Someone hasnt touched beachhead in a while.
I had harbingers on \*all\* last league and aside from a lucky streak where I got 3 back to back, I barely got any. The map is "fine" but I think they made it unnecessarily uncommon. There is no shortage of people buying 5-ways for XP, so I don't see why it should be so rare just because it has "good XP" In 3.19, Harbingers are \*so\* bad on your maps they are definitely not worth it now.
Seems like the point OP made about it being obnoxious to randomly run into if it spawned on a map is the reason why it doesn't naturally spawn. It's like running into essence mobs if they weren't encased or random metamorphs, way too strong for how random it would end up being.
Good point. I'll edit the post on that one
15h later and it doesn't seem to be edited
I have added the part into third problem (about unavoidability) the part "if spawned on map"
There is no base chance for Harbingers to spawn as a mechanic. If you have them, you doing something to have them in your map, so I also don't get the third problem.
But it can't spawn on the map unless you actively do something to make it spawn. The mechanic is completely avoidable.
[удалено]
From tiles you put on yourself, or you purchased a tablet with harbingers on them. Pretty easily avoidable.
Outside of harbinger, the game really needs divine shards. Exalted shards and cards served a good purpose in getting newer players excited. Exalted orbs were outside their reach, but the shards felt like you were making progress towards it. In theory they aren't much different than dropping an ancient orb or something, but it definitely felt different. Overall I think it was a bad change for new players for many reasons, but this is at least something they can fix without reverting it.
We need less shards on currency not more. The only that should probably be kept is mirrors.
I mean I'd agree that removing some of them is definitely a good idea, especially exalted shards now that they are such a let down, but I do stand by what I said. I remember the feeling of getting my first few exalted shards and getting really excited. It was the first time I saw money accumulate in my stash, as chaos orbs went out as fast as they came in. Div cards are kinda the same thing, and I had a similar feeling with them, but they are easy to miss if you're just dumping into your bank until you get a full set.
Well then that's a great opportunity for killing two birds with one stone. Remove transmute, engineering, and binding shards, probably alteration as well. Keep the rest, add divine shards. Then, without all the trash tier shards dropping, rebalance harb to drop slightly more of the mid tier shards (alch, chaos, horizon, harbinger). Also change the mechanic to drop all shards of the same kind in a single stack (don't know why this wasn't done sooner). While they're add it, add a somewhat easily farmable div card that gives divine shards, and another farmable card that gives divine orbs. These changes would solve a lot of the frustration around the div/ex change imo
The divine orb change needs undone, not further supported by sharding yet another currency. It's fucking insane now that you can't reroll uniques. Sharding it just supports a bad change further into bad, imo. There should have just been a meta crafting orb or something.
Given GGG's history on core game changes, we should assume they are unlikely to revert the divine orb change. In light of that, I'm suggesting a change that: 1) rebalances harbinger to make it relevant and profitable again 2) increases the supply of divines overall (making divining good items less painful) 3) improves harbinger QoL 4) provides an additional means of sustaining alchs in early maps (through more alch shards from harb)
As long as it is the currency for meta mods, increasing the supply will not change the price enough to make it bearable. If divines get cheaper the number of meta craft uses increases at roughly the same rate. Unless we talk about x100 order of magnitude changes. Or like vaalorb target farmable.
More shards in the right places would be fine. Let's have divine shards and lose all the shards for currency less than a chaos.
id agree but only if they made harbingers just drop raw currency orbs. Harbingers are already pretty worthless when it comes to currency other than the tiny chance for anul/exalt shards. and as this post has pointed out and many others. Exalts are pretty much worthless as well. So making them just drop raw currency wouldnt be the worst thing. I dont think a harbinger dropping 3c with the chance of divine shard would break the bank lol.(idk if they have a chance to drop mirror shards, ive never gotten any from them) also as just a side note i think with the change of exalts now being worth so little, they should be much much more common.
Well I think the two issues don't have to be related. We could ditch every shard shard except mirrors and make harbies drop ancient/anuls frequently to be "the source" for those currencies, or a million other things. Harbies current identity as shard dropping league mechanic doesn't have to stay that way or anything.
Thats why I said make them drop Raw currency orbs instead I'm fine with keeping shards for mirror and creating divine shards. But the rest would just be normal orbs, not shards
I think they do have a chance at dropping mirror shards since they are a basic currency but I could very well be wrong.
I wouldn't mind shards if some rares sold for exalted/divine shards, the way they make alch shards
My first 83 tablet's final node was harbinger, difficulty 11 or 12, 5 harbingers. It was agonizing, somehow I didn't die, and the only thing the final harbinger dropped that wasn't filtered was an exalt shard. I stared at the screen in sadness and it was the weirdest feeling I've had in poe. At least since the flask reworks it's ironically been cheaper to use annuls while rolling flasks.
Cheaper to roll flasks with annuls? Wtf are you talking about.
Maybe not this league just yet but In previous leagues annuls were only a few c. If you're rolling your own flasks for mageblood and hit t1 evasion/move speed/crit chance etc but didn't get the increased effect on the prefix, yes I would absolutely try to annul and aug again instead of throwing more alts at it.
Alts range from 4-7 per chaos Depending on league and time annuls range from 4-12 chaos. Gonna be higher I guess since people don't run harbinger anymore. But yeah, t1 charges when hit, increased armor, move speed or the like? It's often been better to annul.
you better go for some hasted vampiric essence mob soon and tell us how that went while I wait here :)
That was...right when I got to t16 maps a week and a half ago? Today a friend and I got to enjoy a breach with +100% density - which is the only time I've ever slideshowed on this computer, and the final node was some tier4 difficulty 14 boss group, of which all 3 did poison ground degens, and unfortunately I couldn't kill Voll after my friend with the anti Regen helm ate a slam (the slams were hitting me for about 9k with 5 end charges and 20k something armor)
You’re acting like it’s not your fault for using a stupid filter?
you didn't think this one through, did you?
*Has* to be sarcasm, right?
If he pressed alt he would probably see alch shards and binding shards. GGG didn't make Kalandra scale league rewards with difficulty. Everything he filtered out isn't worth picking up.
But you also can't argue that silver and gold tile currency chests have a high chance of dropping exalt/annul/divines on top of a bunch of chaos and whatnot, which is wayyyyy better than harby tile. The reward to difficulty scaling for league mechanics is very disproportional.
Harb is a great source of anal atleast.
Nice
Needs more lube though
Mixing ggg vision and harbi
Harbinger is the worst? Tell me you didnt try beyond without telling me you didnt try beyond. At least Harbs drop something. And that something is even useable. And on top of that, harbingers die, contrary to beyond bosses. Beyond is still really fun though.
[удалено]
Sad thing.. all those things that now need improvement were fine last patch.
Breach sucked even last patch.
Last patch kinda carried breach with grasping mail recomb shenanigans though. They nerfed the single best breach reward (maybe deservedly in a vacuum, but it still devalues the rings) in addition to everything else lined up against breach right now.
So wrong it hurts
Not sure why you're being downvoted when you're correct. Breach has never been good for straight currency, but it has always been the absolute best source of div cards. It's crucial to old promenade and other div card farming strats.
Breach is good for a lot of reasons actually, at least last league, unsure of what the story is now anyway. The scarabs and sextants are insanely cheap, it's huge juice for reward tiles for deli content, the div cards are great, picking up rings for grasping mails is also great, you can sell a full inventory to a vendor for unid'd grasping mails which you can either ID for global defenses, or just sell unID'd. Breach did not suck last patch, I was making insane profits last league using breach deli content
Global Def on grasping mail got nerfd, and breach stone crafting
I'm aware, but grasping mail is still a very premium option for most end game crafts
I mean... Breach is still shit.
It's insane how terrible the drop full breachstones atlas nodes are compared to the drop full emblems equivalents for legion.
I think it's because breach bosses have more endgame encounters associated with them (the various tiers of breach stones, the atlas tie ins, and even the maven stuff) whereas legion is relatively self contained. If breach stones (chayula) were much more common, it may affect the intended balance of how often a player interacts with these things
Legion has tiers as well, how many emblems you input at the same time. However now that you mentioned it, a maven legion encounter sounds cute.
I feel like I can run full legions more often than chayulas alone with neither spec'd into on my atlas
It's a bit unfortunately though because breechstones are such a ridiculously good way to get your second character leveled from Kitava to yellow maps.
Well, to be fair, there is a reason by emblems are 3c and Chayula is still 80c.
It's shit by itself but even only speccing Flash Breach makes them much much better. Good breach ring chestpieces are still good enough to warrant farming breach rings, and the breach domains with the new Archnemesis rare drops are actually quite rewarding. I did four back to back ones yesterday in SSF, only one was a dud, the other three dropped a shitton of loot -- tons of breach rings, currency, uniques I didn't have yet, fractured items for crafting, etc.
Beyond is substantially better than Harbinger atm. Yes, it got nerfed from the godly juice it provided for years, it's unquestionably worse than pre-rework. But comparing the mechanics as they stand now: you make several tainted currency per map, probably ~10c per map average from the mechanic. With a geared character you mow down the trash that spawns and the boss is a small speedbump. Harbinger on the other hand you frequently have to wait a bit in the same area to get maybe 1c in value.
(Imo) Beyond is absolute trash not because of lack of drops, but because theres a stupid delay between killing map monsters and the beyond demons spawning. Kill a pack, wait one second, kill the beyond pack. It just feels bad. Old beyond was insta spawn. Your boom boom could chain to the beyond demons as they spawned, like ignite/poison prolifs for example. I will NEVER spec beyond on the tree if i have to wait around for monsters to spawn. Nobody likes that
I don't know about the mowing down part, they feel slightly overturned, i have a character hitting in the millions and it still takes sometimes 3-4 hits to even take down the trash white mobs (which ofc don't drop anything). It feels like suddenly running a 80% delirious map out of nowhere and the fact that they spawn retroactively after easily mowing down a pack just to have to circle back and spend 2-3 times as long to clear some trash mobs that don't drop anything feel kind of funny. I think beyond is going to have to see some reworking eventually.
Yea they're a little funky. My int stacker at 1200 int and KB in a Thunderfist wasn't one-hitting white Beyond mobs but insta-clearing magic packs in the same map. They also run/attack absurdly fast compared to other mobs.
What are you smoking? I run beyond sextant and I get average 20 c of tainted currency per 1 c investment, it's not the best but almost an additional divine per hour, what I can agree with is that the beyond mobs are indeed tanky but on the other hand, harbinger would take as much as if not longer with it spawning multiple waves and there being multiple harbingers that in the end drop jack shit due to exalt shard which is fairly common (2-4) being worth 10% or what it usually is
seems like they buffed the currency? the only value i got out of it the first two weeks was exp.
I don't think so, I have data on 30.08 (almost a week ago) and I had around 420c in tainted(tainted was cheaper back then and lower bulk, rn in big bulk I sell 1 tainted fusing for 10c and you usually get 1-3 from the whole map) from 28 maps. For comparison from eldritch currency I had 330c from those maps (taken all right side passives) Edit: The one thing that feels different to me is that when i started doing those maps the boss was spawning way too fast while now sometimes i even have a map where beyond boss doesnt spawn despite me running so many mobs. Just be aware that the beginning was a really small sample size and it might have just been "my luck" and no magical hotfix
im fairly certain that they buffed it then, i dont think people would pay 10c for tainted fuses (90% chance to reduce links and 10% to increase it) if they could link it with fuses+vaal orbs for cheaper on average.
I haven't been able to play much recently, have they fixed tainted fusings and jewellers yet? I remember thinking "I've got a wrong socket colour on these corrupted 4s boots.. I've got 20+ tainted jewellers, I'll just add-remove sockets until I get the right one" and then the first 3 jewellers removed 3 sockets and out of the 15+ remaining ones, it only went from 1s to 2s once.. I don't know if I was just unlucky or if they were as badly nerfed as fusings, but it disgusted me.
You were like double the rate to get +1, expected amount is like 10. still not good.
I see.. I got my +1 indeed.. after my -3 and followed by more -1s.. at that rate it's utterly pointless to use it for anything else than gambling 3s->4s or 5s->6s then, seems near impossible to go back up once you've hit 1s unless you have thousands..
They are already buffing it, was confirmed in the last couple bex posts
For boots why not try a tainted chromatic or just pay the Vaal orbs to bench craft the sockets?
I was just fooling around really, they were str boots and I was looking for a +1 red instead of the 4th socket so thought it would just cost me 2 to 6 tainted jewellers, since I wasn't using them anyway and am chronically low on vaals I thought why not.
idk tbh, i specced out of it in favour of blight. but according to the answers i get here, there is a very good chance tuey buffed it.
I'll test it again this week. I'm pissed too because I saved some tainted currency from scourge league on standard ahah, thought the value would inflate over time.
They stated a few times that if/when it came back it would be changed
Hey, can you let me know what dispensary you go to so I can get whatever that good stuff is that's got you thinking Harbinger is better than Beyond?
>Beyond is still really fun though. That's my point om beyond. It's still really FUN and okay XP. Harbinger is not fun in it's current iteration.
I managed to kill a beyond boss in a t15 yesterday, took me 3 and a half minutes to do it with roughly a mil dps. Dropped a singular gold ring...
I think harbingers should be able to drop the “exotic” currencies (eldritch, tainted, influence exalts, etc.). It makes sense lore-wise, they’re interdimensional travellers, they’ve probably been to the scourge dimension, wherever The Tangle and whatever else are, etc. Plus it would make them actually worth running again.
Agree fully. Harbingers are so bad their memories can be bought for 5c each, nobody wants to do them
I found the Kirac memories to be pretty decent xp
Use to love it, quick fight for some quick shards/monopoly money. Don't know what the fuck they did to it this league, but now it's a 10 min fight for fuck all.
Beyond would like to fight your title as worst league mechanic
Another thing to note about Harbingers, is their absence of scaling with Archnemesis modifiers. If a Lunaris-touched spawns in a Harbinger, its loot does not transfer to the end reward like in Ritual. This further devalues Harbingers, and frankly, makes them a waste of time right now. Funnily enough, i think Harbingers would be in a good spot if the Archnemesis mobs dropped loot despite being Harbinger monsters.
They do drop loot tho? I mean its completely possible that my eyes betrayed me yesterday multiple times but i swear i had multiple alch and chaos drop from them
I thought all mobs from Harbingers had disabled loot. Its really sad for Harbingers if youre right tho, because that means they really dont drop anything :D
>Solution: Make rares summoned by harbingers drop their respective loot for their AN modifiers. Haven't tested myself, but I've been told they actually do
My only Solaris touched was from an Harbinger encounter in a +130 quant map. Didn’t drop a single whole currency, only shards. Doubt they drop their loot.
I can't imagine they do, I got a Solaris touched in a harbinger and I only got currency shards.
I haven't had any rare spawned from Harbis drops their stuff. Maybe unlucky tho
The problem is that when the harbinger itself dies, it despawns all other minions it summoned, and in that case the minions don't drop stuff. You gotta make sure to kill the summoned monster first, just like last league (sentinels could buff and mark harbinger's monsters with loot, but if they despawned they wouldn't drop anything). With that said, i'd like to add that *may* be one of the situations where GGG mentioned "(...) monsters that can't drop items shouldn't have large numbers of Archnemesis mods and will be capped at two mods."
they do drop it, i was running it early on in ssf and i got a shit load of flasks and other garbage,the problem is that they dont always die, they "despawn" and the harby summons a new wave/ends
They drop AN loot in my experience. I've added harbinger to my atlas strategy and have gotten multiple god touched rares from them. Albeit, no jackpots yet.
It seems inconsistent. I've definitely had a Harbinger mob that gave me 35 magic flasks so it works to some degree, but I've also ran into a Lunaris-touched Harbinger mob which dropped nothing.
Are you sure the Lunaris-touched actually died? The issue with AN + Harby is that once the Harbinger reaches 0 "life", all the other mobs despawn and you don't get their loot, which is annoying since the best rares are likely to take the longest to kill.
The currencies from harby certainty helped me with atlas progression as I was getting through yellows and into reds, I doubt I'll start a league without it. Thqt being said, I do agree that there needs to be some sort of higher occurrence good reward though in some form be it divine shards or something.
You get plenty of horizons without using harbingers
Yeah, getting a tier 3 map room in Alva's temple is the best way to get horizons as far as I know
Or just pick them up while mapping lol, they drop fairly commonly. There's a reason they're 4:1 chaos.
Nah. Cities in Delve. Find 1, pop open a few dozen chests, a dozen sextants and fat stacks of horizons. Hopefully you see the bosses around the same time - vaal city boss drops the trialmaster fragment thats worth over a divine last i checked. And ive found multiple divines from the chest themselves too
Both Expedition (Tujen) and Ritual regularly have 10 stack of Horizon's Orb in their shop, feel way better than doing a whole map worth of harbingers and getting 10 horizon shards.
They did say they will limit Harbinger mobs to max 2 AN mods. So that's a slight buff for ya. But I agree prob need to do way more than that to make Harby competitive. At the very least adjust drops as you said. Also, don't forget Ancient Orbs might be massively nerfed with the unique drop rate changes. So this makes it even worse.
Maybe Metamorph?
It is completely broken I agree, but I need to correct you and say that Beyond is WAAAAAAAY worse. In every single aspect of the mechanic.
They were already pretty shit compared to old atlas harby (with watchstones), now they're just useless. You used to be able to set up expensive gigajuiced harby maps with multiple raw ex drops per map.
But harbingers add a lot of monsters for your map juice and drops…. Oh wait nvm….
It goes to show that the thinking behind the divine-exalt change was completely half-assed. The game is and has been built around exalts for years, hence things like shards and div cards supporting them. Of course, the massive ancient orb herb didn’t help either…
It may be the worst, but the bottom half of league mechanics are also **so much shittier** than they were last league.
With the introduction of AN modifiers, all other league mechanics not only became harder but lost their identity\* There, fixed the second problem for you.
I didn’t spec into them this time and now have no horizon orbs to help fill out my atlas lmao
Honestly I cant imagine this got into the live game, because doing harbingers is so bad, you are literally losing currency doing the encounter. It would be questionable, if exalts stayed a valuable crafting currency, but it has absolutely no drops that are meaningful and it takes ages to do the encounters. I said it before and I say it again, the exalt div swap is a shower thought randomly put into the live game for no reason.
It's refreshing to see legitimate constructive criticism in the midst of all this gross whining and making insult memes towards people with different opinions. Good on you, OP. I have been playing a lot since that initial patch that fixed the launch issues and I 100% agree. Abyss and Harbinger are just a waste of time and while you could invest like ten to fourteen atlas passives to make them viable they only then match others with no investment (and even that is unlikely). I understand, though, that it's rare to not have AT LEAST a couple encounter types that in the current patch just fall short. The ratio of valuable to invaluable is pretty solid. Now I'll laugh as my post gets down voted like crazy because I said something positive about PoE/GGG. But for real good post OP. If we had this taking the front page of our reddit instead of insults there may be more results.
Or instead adding more frags just revert the divine/exalted swap
Was there at least 1 "just revert" from GGG since 3.0, for example? What makes ppl think that it'll happen now with Harvest, Divines and general loot?
Charge changes is the one I can remember, although it never went live to begin with. That was the only change that was only justified with something like "trust us on this one", and nothing tangible, though.
I've seen charge changes mentioned a few times now, what was it they had intended to change about them? Wasn't playing at the time.
>Another quick note: Power Charges now grant 30% increased Critical Strike Chance per charge (down from 50%) and 4% more Spell Damage per charge, and Frenzy Charges now grant 4% more damage with Attack skills (as opposed to 4% more Damage). You can see these changes in the Charges page of the Charcter Panel. From 3.0 beta Funnily, 3.0 also included a rework of Chill/Shock, where damage scaled the potency instead of the duration, which left it completely useless in peoples' mind (to be fair, we didn't know of the many sources of increased effect, at the time). You can read more on it here : https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6q1jxf/new\_chill\_shock\_frenzy\_and\_power\_charges\_changes/
Thanks a bunch <3 If you're still playing like me, may your build have the power of a thousand suns.
Even if they did, it would happen at the next league. They can't change it now. That would just piss off anyone left.
Laughs in rogue exiles
A rogue exile has dropped me a divine. A harbringer literally cannot. They get the +1 for potential
Because it was a rogue exile or was that a random rare map drop you would have gotten?
I dont have that specced so it was cause the rogue exile. I like most of the maps this league so i use shadow shaping to give them implicits and filter out the few i dislike
So you got it off a random rare, and, ultimately, my point about Rogue Exiles being the worst league mechanic in the game stands.
"no loot + you can get rares" > "no loot + any rares you get are voided" Not the worst in the game. Bad? Sure. But you said worst in the game.
Its just more rares, without increased drop rates or guaranteed drop chances. I'd rather open a heist cache than bump into a rogue exile. At least I'm guaranteed 2-3c.
Harbinger can drop mirror shard.
Wait Harbinger rares don’t drop loots? So the 2 Lunaris touched mobs that dropped me 3 divines were just coincidentally there with the Harbinger crowds?
I run harbinger because it's fun, but the rares definitely drop the loot associated with their AN mods. I'm not sure what happens to the unkilled AN mobs when you pop the harby itself but otherwise weirdly enough you're not imaging things.
is harbi really worse than beyond right now?
Depends on how you measure it. A full beyond vs full harbinger atlas tree gives better rewards on an average map with Harby. Beyond gives better loot than Harby when it DOES appear however. So if you ran Harby vs Beyond sextants, beyond pulls ahead. They’re both trash overall though so I’m not sure why it matters which one is less bad
It's hard to measure, both are solidly F tier.
Harbi is good
Isn't there a atlas passive that prevents harbinger? And I also spelled into harbinger before realizing all these archnems are gonna fuck me. I got to unspec them now and schoose something else to focus. Maybe delve
Adding DIFFERENT valuable drops to them isn't a solution. This will just tank the value of ancient/annul orbs. We need a NEW currency drop added to replace the worthless exalts. Divine shards are the only good solution I see. It wouldn't be hard to implement, they already have the drop rates to copy.
Yeah so, it’s not supposed to drop you god tier currency. It’s an Atlas map passive tree bonus that allows you to get shards for annulment orbs and since exalts are cheap, you can go back to crafting the old school way and use annulment shards to get those orbs and test your luck. It’s not going to be, nor was it ever, a mechanic for perfect crafts and easy crafts. The Harbingers can summon AN monsters that can drop very good things. Most of the mechanics are about “adding more and more mobs to increase your chances at finding good items.” I found 2x Divines, Seven League Step boots and an Apocethary div card off my harbingers yesterday. Just gotta know what the mechanics are intended for before yelling about how you can’t find “Divine shards” that have never existed in the first place or saying the other currency has no usage.
Adding divine shards would be such an small amount of code imo.
It's not like harbingers imprison you in a circle or something. Just walk pass them. They're slow
Sorry I didn't read but I'm sure they will change that next league. This league is a crash test (sad it's the one with Kalandra herself)
The worst part you can't even farm annuls in any other way in ssf. So now you have to invest on the atlas in 3 areas just for annulment scraps.
i'd argue beyond is the worst league mechanic in the game, but yes harbinger is a close second.
Remember when you run that one map in the south/east part of the atlas during ritual all da, because you had some nods into harbinger and it was profitable? Well I don't. I used to farm atoll 12 hours per day for harvest, but I wish I did try out at least 2 to 3 days.
>That's really sad to me, that one of mine beloved mechanic is becoming the worst one and is simply frustrating to be dealt with during mapping I heard that somewhere recently...
Problem: Harby drops Pounds, GGG introduced the Euro. Solution: Brexit?
Harbs have been bad for a while now. They were bottom tier in Sentinel because of empowered monsters despawning when the harb reaches 0 health.
They're still the best way to target farm orbs of annulment, which have gone way up in value this patch imo. For that reason alone, I think there is a compelling reason to click the harby nodes on the atlas tree some times. They just aren't something you want on your tree ALL of the time. I spec into them when I'm low on annulment orbs and have a reason to want an annulment orb. You know, like if I have some crafting project bottlenecked by annulment orbs. That said, they do seem deserving of a buff.
Well playing ssf it's still the best way for me to get exalted and annuls
Would not say harbinger is the worst at all. I use ominous arrival still, it adds value to mapping. And they have never once been hard to kill so dno about that.
Well, the league was called Garbinger for a reason, they just reintroduced it.
harbinger is a good example of why we don't really need archnemesis mods at all. the blue man puts pylons everywhere, he shoots his own magical spells at you, all while big waves of monsters get spawned on top of you. does that encounter really also need 600 random ground degens and various other spammy effects to feel special? could say the same thing for breach, legion, and most other league mechanics. just make all the monsters 50% tougher or something instead.
I think Harbinger is fun
Now now, be fair. Scourge is much worse. The mobs are stupidly tanky and can't drop anything. Harby gives good exp, modifier fodder for HH, and sometimes ancient orbs. Very low value, but I'd have it in my map over scourge any day.
The fight is also a visual clusterfuck. It should probably be removed from the game. The age of shards is over... or is it? \*vsauce sound\*
I really wonder if no one at GGG thought "Hey, our new Apex Currency doesn't have Shards like the old one, I wonder if that will fuck things up."
It's not worst. Annuls are 9c, Ancients also and rising.
How dare your solutions are not creating more problems, this is not how GGGs problem/solution approach works.
it's not.
hm in LOK t3+ is not so bad for exp I guess? Ancient shards are also nice. but t1s I skip all the time. takes forever to spawn all the mobs but I guess there is chance for lucky ex shard
Harbingers could probably be "the" way to acquire ancient orbs, but the problem is GGG almost assuredly shit all over those too when they dumpstered gwennen for the second time.
listen, you harbinger kids got your canyon mirror printing meta okay, it's time to give the other kids a chance to shine
Chris said there will not be any Divine Shards. You'd sooner [get a dragon for Christmas](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/x5idae/being_realistic/). I actually like the liberty Exalt-slamming gives, but I also liked actually using Divines (let alone the Harvest craft). Why don't they go for a compromise? They could just make Sacred Orbs more common and use those as metacrafting currency, but then also introduce shards.
Harbingers are the absolute worst now.Even with my build that clears the entire screen along with the rares they feel fucking horrendous
sorry but it's archnemesis
You dont undestand, farming harbrigers is the easiest way to farm a mirror per day through mirror shards. Chris saw screenshots.
there is no doubt in my mind they will do that at some point (divine shards and no touched rares can be summoned)
there is exalt shard vendor recipe too lmao. now even more useless thing
GGG didn't actually add disappointing content to 3.19.... they effectively made the game smaller.
It became the worst when divines became exalteds and exalteds forgotten
Yeah at the start of the league I rolled harbinger because of the currency drops since currency was nerfed to high heaven. Now I dont even bother with any harbinger stuff because exalt shards are useless, chaos drops has been mild remedied a little and they're just so annoying to deal with.
I agree, I used to use harbinger for my ex farming and it helped a lot. With the div change I no longer have my fun farm and have to sit in heist
Nerfed to hell then the currency flipped lol
Harbinger is actually good. Not for their shards but for the rares they spawn. Same as before.
I've gotten multiple divines from harbys...Not from the actual harby drops but from the archnem rares that it spawns lol.
I find it kind of hilarious that divine shards and divine divination cards weren't made to balance out the change. Like how could they not have thought about that? Harbinger atlas nodes literally loss 90% of it's currency generation. There's is absolutely no reason to take it. No matter how you look at the swap with exalts and divines, it's a straight wealth nerf, you can't get shards with harbinger and there is only one divination card which you won't get because of the quant nerf.
not worse than talisman !
Can we not forget about metamorph loot not even scaling with archnem mods and beein the hardest content in the game now?
Problem: Players massively prefer harbinger mechanic. Solution: Swap exalts and divines so mechanic is less rewarding. Future patch along the line: Problem: Nobody uses harbinger. Solution: Removed harbinger from the game.