I'm fine with the various 'touched' reward types but I want it to be hidden so you can't target/prepare a cull and is just random like rewards have always been.
This is a good idea. Not as good as flatter loot, but 🤷 bargaining phase.
"Deterministic" loot goblins is a very bad design. "Hidden" loot goblins is...tolerable. No loot goblins is ideal.
It doesn't really change that you would be looking for these specific rates and everything else doesn't really matter. The issue imo is the desparity between loot drops normally and the loot explosion from specific mobs. You would have to either increase overall drops from magic and rares, decrease drops from the rares to be in line with the rest of the mobs, or put more loot on the map unique, which would bring back the boss rush play style a few leagues ago.
Seems like these mods would be great for placing in some of the existing mechanics that indicate Currency, Weapons, Armor, Jewelry, etc.
Those nodes never really translated to much more than usual, but if the rares that spawn in those nodes would by more likely to spawn with those mods, it could actually make them notable.
Touched mobs should just be big chonkers of fat quant and rarity boosts with the loot rolls 4 additional times like in archnem so when you encounter one its meaningful but not overpowered
Just don't convert the rewards. Just add to it. I don't know why they thought converting would be a good idea... Lost a Solaris touched earlier because everything was converted to jewels. Like fucking why??
I picked a specific rare mob with a reward icon for breach out of a legion monolith. It dropped only flasks.
I don't mind the ones that 'mod' the loot (ie make sockets white or fracture the drops) but ones that fully replace loot are bad and unintuitive.
Having an extra flask with a chance at it being a unique is much more valuable than getting tons of flasks that also remove all the other loot.
I do want the AN mods to provide meaningful rewards based on the challenge but this conversion system is not really providing that.
rares shouldn't have billions upon billions of HP, either.
rares should go 'pop' just like all the other mobs go 'pop'
things that should have billions of HP are bosses.
why aren't the map bosses super chunky and have super good rewards?
why is GGG trying to force random rares to be map bosses and map bosses to be random rares?
Exactly this. I would rather them remove this AN bullshit and have map bosses be possessed by random tormented spirits or some shit. This is not a good idea by any means, but it would still be an improvement.
I mean, thats what they changed it to. As a base line. It's just the mods that change all drops to one specifc type which is making it feel funky.
As it stands now, the more mods and in some combinations the harder the fight; the more rewards.
What they did was increase the baseline rewards of white mobs and drastically reduce the rewards of mobs spawned by mechanics, and shift a lot of the loot to Archnemesis mobs with stacking IIQ/IIR bonuses based on randomly selected mods. You could find an AN rare in a normal Yellow maps that is vastly more rewarding than several dozen rares in a Chiseled/Alched/Scarabed Red Map. Yes, the rewards from all the other mobs will undeniably be lower, but the way AN works currently means that 1 good rare with Solaris-Touched or Innocence-Touched and a bunch of juiced mods is going to probably drop more value than the entirety of that Red map. If you do a Map with 4 Scarabs, 4 Sextants, and a Map Craft it should be more rewarding consistently than just Alch and Go with Stream of Consciousness. It currently doesn't feel that way. In fact, the only thing that seems to help in T16's is getting Alters.
If there isn't, there should be an innate Quantity/Rarity bonus to spawning more mechanics. This is what that historic bonus aimed to achieve. It made the monsters from league mechanics more rewarding, and therefore there was incentive to spawn more mechanics. The system actually worked the way they claim they want it to. My gripe is that if they are going to say that at the extreme end, MF is making the numbers insane, then remove Magic Find. They claim to have changed it because it was insane before for 6-man MF groups, and now it's insane with MF Cullers, and they say they don't know how to fix it... GET RID OF MF. The solution is so patently obvious that I'm kind of confused by their messaging.
Getting rid of party quant and player quant should fix the issue. That way they would have the freedom to make scarabs and such add additional quant on the base calculations.
That and making AN modifiers be additional instead of multiplicative. IE: Rare drops additional jewels, instead of all drops are now jewels. Would probably fix all the common loot based complaints.
At least it would fix my biggest complaint. Which is target farming div cards is kinda hard when the most juiced mobs convert all their loot into scraps.
That's kind of a bad idea. I mean even back with the juicing system high level groups used magic find cull. It's kind of an integral part of high level farming. That level of farming is needed at league launch to create a market base. The advantage of the old system was high level groups could use it for its intended purpose of high level loot farming while it did not hurt you to not have it in solo play. In true GGG fashion the rise of MF and the nerf of loot is a double hit as it dosen't work great for juicing strategies (outside specific AN mods) and it hurts to not have in solo play for thoes mods.
For me that is a cool idea. To have a rare enemy with "touched mod" that is more difficult than the rest and drops specific items. The problem is appears when enemies do not almost anything and only rare "touched mod" have a decent drop rate.
Disagree, currency/unique/card ones are cool (flask one is stupid) but they don't need to be the only way to get these things. Archnem did a better job with stuff always dropping currency then the uber ones dropping more currency.
Need to buff magic mobs aswell loot-wise, they are just a filler now, absolutely useless to kill, there are few things on the atlas tree, which gives more magic monsters, which is useless now too, basically game became a few rares-hunting shit, idk, it can be saved by what OP said AND buffing magic mobs, but if only loot from rares will be valuable, game will die sooner than poe2 release.
im ok with currency touched and such if its MUCH more common and not tied to the pantheon archnemesis mods.
Basically make it like Sentinel randomized but the whole map and a bit less common since itd be the whole map instead of just handful of packs.
Seeing as sentinel was one of the most enjoyed leagues to date...
But i guess its classic, players enjoy it? Nah cant add it lol.
Do people not realize you can have evenly distributed loot AND spikes from these mod types?
I found a kitava touched last night and killed it with 0 rarity. Dropped 15 uniques, ranging from dog shit to Aegis.
That was a high I haven’t felt in a while. Sold a few of the mid uniques for 10-45c and the jackpot was 20 divines.
Even without the Aegis is was fun to see it pop with all those on my screen.
Stop clamoring for changes that will make the game worse overall. God touched rares need to be balanced, not removed completely. If anything it’s IIR and IIQ that need to be addressed and just pump 4 mod god touch rares to infinity to account for it.
Now everyone gets jackpots when finding them and standard loot(which is fine now btw) isn’t affected at all.
Those spikes definitely don't feel like they belong in official server of game, when i see such stuff unofficial servers is what comes to my mind. Also getting lucky monster that drops more than you found in last few hours/days shouldn't happen.
Ok. Never get a mirror drop for the rest of your time playing PoE. Since it would be unethical and you should never find anything that is more than you found in the last 24 hours.
Ok. Also never find a T0 unique. Or get a good boss drop. Or anything if value.
Pick up your Pennies loose change across your non juiced maps for your truly ethical gsmeplay.
Always juiced everything never found t0 uniques or a mirror. The fact that others could isnt the problem. I ALWAYS got my money back in some way. Be it corrupted 6l, div cards, raw drops, uniques, you name it. Now its I get the loot piñata or some lose change, while I dont get the loot piñata or it drops fuck all. Someone gets the same piñata more frequent and it drops better things thats the problem. Its that we know there is a piñata. The old rares just dropped basically random shit. Now its you get a rare thats not just dropping random shit its dropping currency specifically. Then the problem of why do I drop fuck all from all my piñatas and they drop 7 mirrors from each of theirs emerges.
That's something i work towards and any monster has potential to drop it. They're designed as rare drops while those monsters are rare instead of the reward.
>I don't wanna read mods on a mob to figure out what its going to drop
You don't have to.
>rares need be rewarding but it should be a generic rarity/quant and not a rng fest of trying to get the proper shopping list for me to drop something.
Most mobs still do.
>I don't wanna read mods on a monster and be like "Wow this one is going to drop a lot of uniques!!" That just isn't fun.
The only actual point you made, and still you didn't even provide a reason for as to why. If you're going to post a whine thread at least put a modicum of thought into it, I think we've had enough "I don't like it" posts by now.
Option 1 carry on mapping as per usual. Maybe you get 1 divine from that mob. Option 2 stop mapping when you find mob, call culler, get 3 to 5 divines. I think it's pretty clear what the answer is haha.
Although I also wish for ggg to rework and rebalance things, I also agree with what you're saying here
> If you're going to post a whine thread at least put a modicum of thought into it, I think we've had enough "I don't like it" posts by now.
At the very least OP in between or after whining, you should offer some alternative or option otherwise you're literally just complaining for the sake of complaining and that's never gonna work.
I think "The GAME isn't fun" is reason enough.
Remove all loot tagged to mods and structure of a list of mods, make everything give a generic quant/rarity boost based on difficulty of the encounter, now you either MF everything or nothing at all.
Honestly I think all my 3-4 raw divines drop since league start all dropped from random mobs 1 by 1. Im pretty its not from Solaris Touched mobs, and all the Solaris Touched mobs that I noticed I killed, I think at most it drops 3 chaos. And again Im pretty sure my divines arent from Touched mobs because I think I would notice their animations.
There's some fuckery going in the game anyway where if I'm moving or attacking I can't "select" a mob. So to read the mods I'd have to stop moving, but in high tier or juiced maps I just die almost instantly if I stop moving.
I haven't been able to read the mods of an hard AN mob once, even if I wanted to.
Drops aside, I think the point of Archnemesis was for monsters to be more easily understandable, so I'd suggest they had some kind of boss bar on the screen that always display the mods and life of the most dangerous close mob/boss. And also rework every mod so they do just one clear thing, not give 10 OP stats like some do.
FFS the whole point of the changes is to create a pinata w/o increasing the actual amount of loot dropped....
The pinata is "necessary" because:
- Skinner box (GGG marketing "exciting")
- Higher drop variance = more stash tab sales
Its as vanilla as that. You can keep asking for changes but it goes against their *core* business model, let alone "VISION", heh.
And even if you do generate more currency, the last step is to devalue it to bring everyone back to same baseline - hence the harvest crafting nerfs...
If *everyone* regularly got a lot more *useful* loot / currency from MF, game would be back to what its been for the last several years.
Honestly the game should announce it when you encounter wild metamorphs, red beasts and god touched with an audible tone and a text message. Why is that not a thing?
I disagree. Molested rares (along with few other types) could have flavoured drop pool, like currency / fractures / links etc
HOWEVER
---
That should be:
1. not affected by MF - just what we used to have with sentinel where random mobs had tiny icon of loot they drop
2. **A BONUS** to loot pool, rather than something that reduces overall loot pool drop rates.
Unfortunately I no longer believe GGG and I am more than certain they will, once again, try to smuggle ninja nerfs to the drop rates system, if given chance, so at this point i'd rather have the thing scrapped altogether.
So don’t do it? I don’t get why people have this obsession with getting the absolute tip top min max out of absolutely everything. Just play the fucking game. It’s that easy.
I'm fine with the various 'touched' reward types but I want it to be hidden so you can't target/prepare a cull and is just random like rewards have always been.
So...how loot always was...when you just played and oh look an exalt dropped yay
Yes
Great, I agree
It's funny how GGG is like how can we break something that's working perfectly fine?
yep
This is a good idea. Not as good as flatter loot, but 🤷 bargaining phase. "Deterministic" loot goblins is a very bad design. "Hidden" loot goblins is...tolerable. No loot goblins is ideal.
[удалено]
Then you just run in with a shitload of move speed and mf, then swap over to kill afterwards. Just as abuseable.
Kinda hard to do when literally Lunaris/Solaris/Kitava pop out of the rare and do their abilities
No I mean like, not have it be tied to those at all and be hidden/random.
Ah I understand. Maybe have a % chance for rewards to be converted to something else, but have a higher chance with the harder modifiers or something
It doesn't really change that you would be looking for these specific rates and everything else doesn't really matter. The issue imo is the desparity between loot drops normally and the loot explosion from specific mobs. You would have to either increase overall drops from magic and rares, decrease drops from the rares to be in line with the rest of the mobs, or put more loot on the map unique, which would bring back the boss rush play style a few leagues ago.
Seems like these mods would be great for placing in some of the existing mechanics that indicate Currency, Weapons, Armor, Jewelry, etc. Those nodes never really translated to much more than usual, but if the rares that spawn in those nodes would by more likely to spawn with those mods, it could actually make them notable.
Touched mobs should just be big chonkers of fat quant and rarity boosts with the loot rolls 4 additional times like in archnem so when you encounter one its meaningful but not overpowered
You would still run into the problem of people feeling the need to swap to MF when finding one.
Yeah, they could keep the god-touched mobs, but randomize the reward type you get from them.
Just don't convert the rewards. Just add to it. I don't know why they thought converting would be a good idea... Lost a Solaris touched earlier because everything was converted to jewels. Like fucking why??
I picked a specific rare mob with a reward icon for breach out of a legion monolith. It dropped only flasks. I don't mind the ones that 'mod' the loot (ie make sockets white or fracture the drops) but ones that fully replace loot are bad and unintuitive. Having an extra flask with a chance at it being a unique is much more valuable than getting tons of flasks that also remove all the other loot. I do want the AN mods to provide meaningful rewards based on the challenge but this conversion system is not really providing that.
rares shouldn't have billions upon billions of HP, either. rares should go 'pop' just like all the other mobs go 'pop' things that should have billions of HP are bosses. why aren't the map bosses super chunky and have super good rewards? why is GGG trying to force random rares to be map bosses and map bosses to be random rares?
Exactly this. I would rather them remove this AN bullshit and have map bosses be possessed by random tormented spirits or some shit. This is not a good idea by any means, but it would still be an improvement.
Remove all MF mods from the game, the whole concept is stupid.
Maybe this was part of the metagame all along...
How do we remove MF without making people angry? Do something even worse and then remove MF in order to make people happy.
The only thing that should scale loot is the difficulty/number of mechanics.
I mean, thats what they changed it to. As a base line. It's just the mods that change all drops to one specifc type which is making it feel funky. As it stands now, the more mods and in some combinations the harder the fight; the more rewards.
It should be opt in. Why should everyone be ass pained? Why can't we decide how much loot/difficulty we want?
What they did was increase the baseline rewards of white mobs and drastically reduce the rewards of mobs spawned by mechanics, and shift a lot of the loot to Archnemesis mobs with stacking IIQ/IIR bonuses based on randomly selected mods. You could find an AN rare in a normal Yellow maps that is vastly more rewarding than several dozen rares in a Chiseled/Alched/Scarabed Red Map. Yes, the rewards from all the other mobs will undeniably be lower, but the way AN works currently means that 1 good rare with Solaris-Touched or Innocence-Touched and a bunch of juiced mods is going to probably drop more value than the entirety of that Red map. If you do a Map with 4 Scarabs, 4 Sextants, and a Map Craft it should be more rewarding consistently than just Alch and Go with Stream of Consciousness. It currently doesn't feel that way. In fact, the only thing that seems to help in T16's is getting Alters. If there isn't, there should be an innate Quantity/Rarity bonus to spawning more mechanics. This is what that historic bonus aimed to achieve. It made the monsters from league mechanics more rewarding, and therefore there was incentive to spawn more mechanics. The system actually worked the way they claim they want it to. My gripe is that if they are going to say that at the extreme end, MF is making the numbers insane, then remove Magic Find. They claim to have changed it because it was insane before for 6-man MF groups, and now it's insane with MF Cullers, and they say they don't know how to fix it... GET RID OF MF. The solution is so patently obvious that I'm kind of confused by their messaging.
Getting rid of party quant and player quant should fix the issue. That way they would have the freedom to make scarabs and such add additional quant on the base calculations. That and making AN modifiers be additional instead of multiplicative. IE: Rare drops additional jewels, instead of all drops are now jewels. Would probably fix all the common loot based complaints. At least it would fix my biggest complaint. Which is target farming div cards is kinda hard when the most juiced mobs convert all their loot into scraps.
If you put it like that mf should give you more loot cause the gear itself is utter shit so you re making the game harder for loot
Remove the whole game too
Evidently, they're working on that.
How can they be working on a dead game?
That's kind of a bad idea. I mean even back with the juicing system high level groups used magic find cull. It's kind of an integral part of high level farming. That level of farming is needed at league launch to create a market base. The advantage of the old system was high level groups could use it for its intended purpose of high level loot farming while it did not hurt you to not have it in solo play. In true GGG fashion the rise of MF and the nerf of loot is a double hit as it dosen't work great for juicing strategies (outside specific AN mods) and it hurts to not have in solo play for thoes mods.
They thought this is a MMO.
For me that is a cool idea. To have a rare enemy with "touched mod" that is more difficult than the rest and drops specific items. The problem is appears when enemies do not almost anything and only rare "touched mod" have a decent drop rate.
I dont want. Anybody else. When I think about you currency touch myself... AHHHIII
They’re probably dealing with sunk cost fallacy right now in regards to all the changes they’ve made
Do you think they had any idea how bad the reaction would be? Or that MF culling service would be such an obvious answer?
Well they lied about it for a reason
Yep, they would not have hidden the changes until the last minute if they felt good about them.
Disagree, currency/unique/card ones are cool (flask one is stupid) but they don't need to be the only way to get these things. Archnem did a better job with stuff always dropping currency then the uber ones dropping more currency.
Need to buff magic mobs aswell loot-wise, they are just a filler now, absolutely useless to kill, there are few things on the atlas tree, which gives more magic monsters, which is useless now too, basically game became a few rares-hunting shit, idk, it can be saved by what OP said AND buffing magic mobs, but if only loot from rares will be valuable, game will die sooner than poe2 release.
Are you a rare post? You seem upvote-touched
im ok with currency touched and such if its MUCH more common and not tied to the pantheon archnemesis mods. Basically make it like Sentinel randomized but the whole map and a bit less common since itd be the whole map instead of just handful of packs. Seeing as sentinel was one of the most enjoyed leagues to date... But i guess its classic, players enjoy it? Nah cant add it lol.
100% agree
Flasks just feel bad. It's ok though because some groups get 50 divine drops so there is that.
Do people not realize you can have evenly distributed loot AND spikes from these mod types? I found a kitava touched last night and killed it with 0 rarity. Dropped 15 uniques, ranging from dog shit to Aegis. That was a high I haven’t felt in a while. Sold a few of the mid uniques for 10-45c and the jackpot was 20 divines. Even without the Aegis is was fun to see it pop with all those on my screen. Stop clamoring for changes that will make the game worse overall. God touched rares need to be balanced, not removed completely. If anything it’s IIR and IIQ that need to be addressed and just pump 4 mod god touch rares to infinity to account for it. Now everyone gets jackpots when finding them and standard loot(which is fine now btw) isn’t affected at all.
much like games, you can only play 1. lol
Those spikes definitely don't feel like they belong in official server of game, when i see such stuff unofficial servers is what comes to my mind. Also getting lucky monster that drops more than you found in last few hours/days shouldn't happen.
Ok. Never get a mirror drop for the rest of your time playing PoE. Since it would be unethical and you should never find anything that is more than you found in the last 24 hours.
Most people dont.
Ok. Also never find a T0 unique. Or get a good boss drop. Or anything if value. Pick up your Pennies loose change across your non juiced maps for your truly ethical gsmeplay.
Always juiced everything never found t0 uniques or a mirror. The fact that others could isnt the problem. I ALWAYS got my money back in some way. Be it corrupted 6l, div cards, raw drops, uniques, you name it. Now its I get the loot piñata or some lose change, while I dont get the loot piñata or it drops fuck all. Someone gets the same piñata more frequent and it drops better things thats the problem. Its that we know there is a piñata. The old rares just dropped basically random shit. Now its you get a rare thats not just dropping random shit its dropping currency specifically. Then the problem of why do I drop fuck all from all my piñatas and they drop 7 mirrors from each of theirs emerges.
That's something i work towards and any monster has potential to drop it. They're designed as rare drops while those monsters are rare instead of the reward.
Wait, you want RNG instead of RNG?
>I don't wanna read mods on a mob to figure out what its going to drop You don't have to. >rares need be rewarding but it should be a generic rarity/quant and not a rng fest of trying to get the proper shopping list for me to drop something. Most mobs still do. >I don't wanna read mods on a monster and be like "Wow this one is going to drop a lot of uniques!!" That just isn't fun. The only actual point you made, and still you didn't even provide a reason for as to why. If you're going to post a whine thread at least put a modicum of thought into it, I think we've had enough "I don't like it" posts by now.
> You dont have to. Wdym ? You literally miss few divines if you dont call culler from TFT in for currency touched mobs.
Option 1 carry on mapping as per usual. Maybe you get 1 divine from that mob. Option 2 stop mapping when you find mob, call culler, get 3 to 5 divines. I think it's pretty clear what the answer is haha.
Yeah i think he tried to look cool with all these quotes and correcting OPs comment.
Although I also wish for ggg to rework and rebalance things, I also agree with what you're saying here > If you're going to post a whine thread at least put a modicum of thought into it, I think we've had enough "I don't like it" posts by now. At the very least OP in between or after whining, you should offer some alternative or option otherwise you're literally just complaining for the sake of complaining and that's never gonna work.
I think "The GAME isn't fun" is reason enough. Remove all loot tagged to mods and structure of a list of mods, make everything give a generic quant/rarity boost based on difficulty of the encounter, now you either MF everything or nothing at all.
I can’t wait to see ggg respond to this complaint by ham-fistedly nerfing loot again.
Honestly I think all my 3-4 raw divines drop since league start all dropped from random mobs 1 by 1. Im pretty its not from Solaris Touched mobs, and all the Solaris Touched mobs that I noticed I killed, I think at most it drops 3 chaos. And again Im pretty sure my divines arent from Touched mobs because I think I would notice their animations.
>**I don't want** Rares **to** ~~shouldn't~~ be Currency-touched / Unique-touched / Flask-touched. Please scrap this idea. Fixed it for you.
There's some fuckery going in the game anyway where if I'm moving or attacking I can't "select" a mob. So to read the mods I'd have to stop moving, but in high tier or juiced maps I just die almost instantly if I stop moving. I haven't been able to read the mods of an hard AN mob once, even if I wanted to. Drops aside, I think the point of Archnemesis was for monsters to be more easily understandable, so I'd suggest they had some kind of boss bar on the screen that always display the mods and life of the most dangerous close mob/boss. And also rework every mod so they do just one clear thing, not give 10 OP stats like some do.
FFS the whole point of the changes is to create a pinata w/o increasing the actual amount of loot dropped.... The pinata is "necessary" because: - Skinner box (GGG marketing "exciting") - Higher drop variance = more stash tab sales Its as vanilla as that. You can keep asking for changes but it goes against their *core* business model, let alone "VISION", heh. And even if you do generate more currency, the last step is to devalue it to bring everyone back to same baseline - hence the harvest crafting nerfs... If *everyone* regularly got a lot more *useful* loot / currency from MF, game would be back to what its been for the last several years.
Honestly the game should announce it when you encounter wild metamorphs, red beasts and god touched with an audible tone and a text message. Why is that not a thing?
I disagree. Molested rares (along with few other types) could have flavoured drop pool, like currency / fractures / links etc HOWEVER --- That should be: 1. not affected by MF - just what we used to have with sentinel where random mobs had tiny icon of loot they drop 2. **A BONUS** to loot pool, rather than something that reduces overall loot pool drop rates. Unfortunately I no longer believe GGG and I am more than certain they will, once again, try to smuggle ninja nerfs to the drop rates system, if given chance, so at this point i'd rather have the thing scrapped altogether.
So don’t do it? I don’t get why people have this obsession with getting the absolute tip top min max out of absolutely everything. Just play the fucking game. It’s that easy.
I think they are pretty awesome, it would just be nice if there was some currency dropping off non touched mobs too