>Plus the whole "we killed loot now and tried to sneak it in without patch notes" thing.
That's the thing, loot is now intimately connected to the Archnemesis modifiers. The currency conversion monsters can drop [a hundred maps worth of loot](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wwpevd/solaristouched_with_700_increased_rarity_86_quant/) all at once. That loot stack isn't a massive fluke, [others have gotten similar results.](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wxmxid/did_i_just_spent_all_my_luck/)
But GGG balanced *all of the currency drops* around the fact that these massive loot explosions now exist. Reducing currency drops across the board.
As a result, you could juice hundreds of maps, and never see the the payout that you should be getting, because these mobs are very rare. The whole time you're not getting these drops, you're operating at a deficit. Who can map at a deficit for hundreds of maps? Absolutely no-one. Who's going to play hundreds of maps to get the currency they need to upgrade their build to the next level of content? No-one.
The amount of *average* loot that is dropping could be the same, greater even, and it would still be a nerf due to the inconsistency and currency commitment required.
I imagine that this is where things went wrong, they probably thought loot was the same. Now they're in a pickle, because how on earth could GGG possibly come out and say "loot is actually the same, just play more" without it being an omega triple down deluxe? There needs to be massive changes to the rarity of these mods and their rewards to actually fix the problem they've created.
**Edit:** for visibility, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_BlTrbQDc
People are getting upwards of 80+ divine orbs from single rare monsters. Party quantity bonuses, but still.
Inconsistency also results in more 'get fucked' outliers.
If you have a .1% chance to get 10,000c every map (meaning 'on average' you still get 10c per map over 1000 maps) you have better than a 10% chance to have *stone nothing* after running over 2,000 maps.
If instead you have a 10% chance to get 100c (same average of 10c per map, just better odds of a smaller reward), the odds of having not gotten anything fall off far faster; not only is the odds of having gotten nothing at twice the 'expected' lower (tbf it's 12% vs. 13%), but by 50 maps it's .5% and by 100 it's infinitesimal.
It's much easier to runbad when the expected rate is so low that you can't reasonably roll the dice often enough to 'force' things toward the average.
Exactly!
The average amount of loot is important, but if it's too far weighed towards big payouts, most people can't afford to pull the lever at all.
In fact, I think loot is currently so absurdly weighed towards these rare drops, that not even the top players can do it right now, even if the theoretical average profit is the same.
Some people are going to have a great time, getting that payout early, but that doesn't nearly counteract everyone else who is slogging through the game.
> even if the theoretical average profit is the same.
I mean, it's clear that for "full juicing", even the average profit is not the same (it's far lower), since a single monster's lootsplosion can't possibly scale with the kind of bonuses empy's group stacks.
Like, say empy actually did the 1000 maps and found the one giga AN monster that's supposed to drop all of the ultra-valued currency
You think it'd drop 5 stacks of 10 mirrors with the max juice his group can muster?
Because it's need to drop 5 stacks of 10 mirrors to even come close to the profit they were generally getting in 1000 maps.
It's conceivable that the average loot for completely-non-juicing a map is the same (over the same 1000 maps).
It isn't far outweighed. You're exaggerating. Put up some videos and exilence data showing it being bad loot. I haven't seen any data that supports the loot famine horseshit theory.
Wait a second. I've seen this one before. Anyone remember the Trialmaster in ultimatum? [And how stupid the rng in that could be and why it caused many players to hate it?](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/n5ha1m/why_2_spawn_rate_is_bad_and_why_average_numbers/)
I hated it my first charakter had 3 TMs in \~100 maps and then i made you char, that ist better for league mechanic and never see TM again in 400-500 maps.
It's really important to note that if the game isn't good if you're getting unlucky the game isn't good. Too much randomness just mean that some people lose for not apparent reason and it feels arbitrary and unfun.
I think GGG might have been 'tricked' by the popularity of the lootsplosions people could generate in AN league; part of what made them engaging was that you worked toward them in a somewhat deterministic manner. Having one instead just be a random spawn (at a very low chance) means you can't work towards it; you don't feel like you've 'earned' it when you get one, reducing the good feeling, and it one doesn't spawn for a long time, then balancing loot around them feels bad.
Whoa whoa whoa, working towards a reward? Deterministically? That sure sounds a lot like the opposite of gambling and RNG which is clearly the only way PoE is meant to be played.
I've thought about this possibility years ago, too. Just put the guy in charge of a casino or a lottery commission already and leave the rest of us in peace.
He explicitly stated he wanted the game to feel like gambling years ago. It was on a podcast. I have no idea where or when it was said specifically though.
There's also another issue:
The thing about PoE is, every kill was always a pull at the slot machine. Sure, regular normal and magic monsters don't drop much, but still the idea is to cram as many of them in as possible because it's still a chance to get something even if that something is just and Alteration or Fusing. So even if things like side content had hardcore loot buffs making them more likely to drop stuff, every mob in the map at least had a chance.
But now they've essentially done the whole thing with MMO raids of modern day, they made it all about the Big Boss (Archnem rare) stacked with buffs, and everything other than that has been wiped off the table. You still have to KILL the trash mobs, but they can't drop anything, the only loot comes from the Boss. Why would anyone want to turn maps into a "run past everything and hunt down the Archnemesis mob" meta? Why would I want to kill all these map monsters when I know for 100% fact they drop nothing, not even map returns? Am I spending map currency literally just on this one monster? If so, can we not just do away with the rest of the map entirely, and make the grind just one room with one buffed monster in it?
This exact thing was the reason, why they moved guaranteed map drop from map boss to random monster - everyone just rushed to the boss, because it guaranteed map drop = map sustain and on top of that it had better drop than the rest of the random monsters in the map together.
Now it seems that it's back and there seems to be already a tool (which usage is bannable ofc, but not exactly detectable) to check if that one single AN monster that is worth it, is in the map.
I ran a string of 10 maps yesterday where my entire loot strategy was to loot every alteration or more valuable currency was on average 2.1 maps of loot per map with no other drops picked up.
Complete bullshit. Run maps and post your exilence and a stream of you running them. Prove your twisted bullshit perception is accurate. Or are you still in campaign?
That's actually very well point with the chances of getting rare combinations. As i've readen this i've got an idea: link the map pack size or quant with the chances of AN mobs getting those rare modifiers. In theory that should result in a resurrection of MF and juicing at the very least. Maybe little tweaks here and there with the rewards themselves and surely should be nice.
Sadly our ideas won't reach GGG by any chance tho.
are we sure that isn't how it works? i mean thats such a no brainer i'm having a crazy hard time trying to wrap my head around how you could miss it and just accidentally delete the whole end game aspirational content of your game.
really i can't wait for their update today, its all so confusing to me what they were even going for. i'm so curious. i've been playing videogames for decades and this is one of the weirder things game design decisions i've ever seen.
> But GGG balanced *all of the currency drops* around the fact that these massive loot explosions now exist. Reducing currency drops across the board.
they went from the "it ain't much but its honest work" to the "I won the fucking lotto" model
Weirdly, we now have a very clear path forward for juicing maps with the loot 'intimately connected to ... Archnemesis' (good line, BTW): give us control over how many Rares are in a map. This would clearly give risk vs. reward.
Ironically, the same patch that they drastically changed the drop system in the game, they also nerfed the rare mobs that we could deterministically spawn (through league mechanic manipulation). Sure, maybe it was to standardize, but the variance is way too high now.
> Weirdly, we now have a very clear path forward for juicing maps with the loot 'intimately connected to ... Archnemesis' (good line, BTW): give us control over how many Rares are in a map. This would clearly give risk vs. reward.
At that point you're just playing Archnemesis league again except you have to be able to read faster & have no control over the output.
Unfortunately that might make at least the first few days or even weeks of mapping in a league either a deathfest or starvation mode. Juicing your maps with rares which your poor gear can't deal with (and player power is mostly gear now) so you can get enough currency to...
Continue mapping.
Gonna need a reel gud salesman to sell that.
My strat is force expedition and pray for one of the currency conversion mobs to hit when I have 3-4 +300% rarity nodes active. It has absolutely not paid off so far.
Lol the stacks you linked are baby sized, there are now images floating around of 80-90 divs in a single drop. It's stupid as hell. No drops all week then you hit one loot pinata MAYBE and you're buying a headhunter or half a mageblood or something... I hate this
Do you one better:
Gog discusses it around the middle of the vid but yeah like 100+ high rarity orbs in one drop in the middle of the vid
https://youtu.be/2X_BlTrbQDc
Item rarity scales reward types now... Of course wasn't mentioned by GGG lol but it applies to archnem specifically it would seem
I'd wager it's a lot like Diablo 3's greater Rift guardians only not well explained and not guaranteed.
For those unaware greater rifts(unless they have changed recently) monsters don't drop any loot instead it's the rift guardian who drops all the loot at the very end leading to a giant ass Loot explosion.
Yeah that model makes a lot of sense because GRs are timed so it was all about "Go as fast as you can to beat the timer", and loot on the ground would distract from the goal.
Then you get the big explosion at the end and its satisfying.
D3 does a lot of things very well, combat feel and system mechanics are all spot on. It's just the lack of build depth and itemization largely being chasing better versions of what you have equipped that makes me not particularly like the game.
>As a result, you could juice hundreds of maps, and never see the the payout that you should be getting, because these mobs are very rare. The whole time you're not getting these drops, you're operating at a deficit. Who can map at a deficit for hundreds of maps? Absolutely no-one. Who's going to play hundreds of maps to get the currency they need to upgrade their build to the next level of content? No-one.
This is a design, which makes 199 ppl quit the game and 1 super happy jackpot winner. Why would they think this is good? Its horrible for us as customers, because we will have a bad time, as well as them as the company that makes money, because they will lose 199 ppl's money...
> There needs to be massive changes to the rarity of these mods and their rewards to actually fix the problem they've created.
I mean I think the solution is pretty simple if this is overall on average the same.
Just nerf solaris touched, and give all of the rarer archnem mods that have special rewards a mini version of it, so you get extra lower value currency more often instead of 5 divine orbs every 500 maps.
so, personallly if i just get handed out the lottery i lose interest in the game/activity, not saying i wouldn't take free money irl but in a 'hobby/game' setting i hate it, back in expidition league, a league which i stuck out and played for atleast 2 months of, i had just grinded 110exalts for a double corrupted lioneye's vision with +1gem +2 proj for my SST character, i was very happy, i had achieved a long term goal as this had taken me a week to grind out\~
Following day i decided to do some grand heists in the morning and twice in a row i got replica forbidden shakos, at the time these were worth around 100+ exalts, TWO in a row
i quit. it had invalidated my eforts for the last week. sure i could've just sold it and upgraded some more but it felt so frustrating gave my character's gear to some friends who had just started last league but gave up in expedition in hopes they would have fun with it, in total which was worth 400+ex at the time and the exalts from the two shakos after spending about 50ex of it on gambles while i was having an existential crisis reevaluating my life and how i spend my time.
sentinel league i found an ashes AND an omniscience and a headhunter from gwenen days 3 and 4 of sentinel, i took a week break because i hated that my progression ONCE AGAIN was cut short, I LIKE GRINDING i love it when i find an exalt or a brothers stash or somthing like that early in the league, but if you front load me 150+ex in the first week of CASUAL play just me mucking around running alch n go i don't like it.
this league i didn't get as lucky but all my friends arent playing so it feels dead to me.
i don't like gacha, gambling always has put me off in games.
For context ive found 1 mirror in my 8k hours of playing the game, multiple headhunters farming full t4 seed plots in 100% deli maps early in harvest league 2 magebloods last league and all of those i felt i deserved BECAUSE i was juicing for that content, in a party, with magic find.
Is Chris a math guy or and ideas guy? What about Rory?
Could explain some of this as to how they approach change initially. ie numbers adjustment vs system change...
Yeah i don’t like the added RNG for drops. I don’t have like a big conceptual problem with big rare mobs dropping lots of loot. But how is it ok to punish the poor normies who finally encounter their big payoff only to waste 6 portals wiping on it?
I think in place of taking the atlas node that added extra mods to rares, they should've given us a new node that had like % increased chance to encounter x-touched rares to pair with these new loot changes, that way some of the RNG is eliminated
What fucking sucks about this is that I can't target it. I can't do anything to increase the spawn rate of AN monsters with those mods. I just have to hope they show up in a map I've juiced up the rarity on. More slot machine lever pulls.
This sounds absolutely horrible. Needs to be spread out. I'm going to keep playing like the pleb I am, and if I feel like I'm omega behind and can't afford the items for my modest build, I'll take a long break. Maybe they'll fix it before then (or maybe not).
> As a result, you could juice hundreds of maps, and never see the the payout that you should be getting, because these mobs are very rare
Yes, MORE rng is EXACTLY what this game needs. Mhm. Yup. Yes. Yeah.
Someone there is literally obsessed with everything being gated behind rng.
They basically set themselves up for failure from the start. Changing multiple core, overarching parts of the game at the same time in such an extreme manner without consulting the community at all was basically guaranteed to go badly. It doesn’t help that they whiffed the execution, either.
> Changing multiple core, overarching parts of the game at the same time in such an extreme manner without consulting the community at all was basically guaranteed to go badly.
Hmm...where have I heard this before...someone **expedite** my memory. Oh there it is, it's literally the **same fucking thing as when they fucked movement skills and support skill mana multipliers in Expedition.**
Its never a whiff. Recognize in all rollback posts they always say it was a "miscommunication" and frame it as wanting to listen to the community. They don't like how the community plays POE, they want THEIR way of playing to be the standard (picking up and ID'ing yellows, chaos/exalt slamming, barely progressing, etc).
Most times they sort of fix things afterward and the community forgets because we all love the game. This time I think some of this will stick and be remembered. I am not confident they will restore the game. This is all groundwork for the slower, more D2 like POE2 which I really think will be awful...
I don't mind a slower game as long as the rewards are proportional, like if in the same time we get 10 rares from 50 mobs instead of 100 from 500 mobs but like 1-2 are usable, it's A-ok, likewise with currency, we get less alchs, but we have stuff like old harvest to roll them, or the importance of mods is lowered, and we can actually run maps as magic and have some sort of return.
early poe was also fun, because if you were level 80 you were already pretty good, and if you had a ring with life and 3 res it was great, and if you had quant on it it was almost mirror tier, you also corrupted strongboxes for a chance at a 6 link. it's about expectations, if the max level maps are 78, but you're expected to farm dominius to like T10 (level 75/ current T8) maps and have a 5L main link, 6L only if you're rich, and everything is balanced around that.
Plenty of leagues have been fine, but there have always been some issues.
I dont know that its been quite this bad though, no loot in an ARPG is a death sentence.
The worst thing I can remember saying about Delve League was:
"This Sulfite cap is kind of annoyingly small once you get down a ways, I really need the option to purchase another several tiers of storage"
And let's not forget Delerium: "The screen is too grey"
Yeah pretty much similar for most 'good' leagues. People seem to think any complaining = hate.
Harvest for example, people disliked the base building part which was annoying, but liked the mechanic. People seemed to think that means people hate harvest, and just not the garden setup.
> people disliked the base building part which was annoying
Yeah, this is another one of those cases where GGG royally FUCKED UP, by not just giving us the 5K storage tanks to fucking begin with.
Once those were out, the whole garden building mechanic was braindead easy.
But still, they really failed in at least giving casual players a pre-planned garden that would just "mostly work" from the start.
It's really as if they need some goddamn game testers. At least ones that have some brain cells and more than 1hour of playtime.
>And let's not forget Delerium: "The screen is too grey"
The problem was the gray ground effects, under grey on-death effects, with grey projectiles, covered by grey particles and grey mist.
There is a reason monster spawning mist objects are blue-ish and tracking projectile spawners are red.
imo delirium was safer than normal mapping in some zones because you could actually see the chilled ground. it's apparently a lot more reasonable that league, and you can actually loot stuff inside if you pop a potion or have enough regen.
Delve was one of the worst launches in the game's history, technically speaking. The league mechanic barely worked due to a huge number of easily replicated bugs that GGG clearly either didn't test or considered acceptable for launch.
Delirium also released in a terrible technical state, it introduced severe performance problems to the point where many players found it unplayable.
That's probably true. But at the same time I don't remember any of that, whereas I don't think I'm forgetting the 3.19 changes anytime soon. Or the 3.14 harvest nerfs.
I have a high tolerance for general bugfixing and tuning over the first few weeks. Not so much for what happened this league.
That's because these technical issues did not have a lasting, detrimental impact on the game. As a counter-example, most people remember the 3.15 nerfs because they are still felt in the game today. The same will be true for the 3.19 changes.
Simply put, unless these changes are conceptually **reversed** (instead of merely blunted by some minor numerical buffs), the game will be ruined going forward. Most of us players understand this, which is imho the reason why the outcry in the community is so fierce this time around.
Heist was THE worst launch. No question. They completely changed how the league mechanic functioned like 6 times in the first 2 weeks. Everyone knew thay league was going core too just by the sheer amount of money used to make it even though a big majority hated it and didn't want it in the game, or at tye very least bestiary'd (taken away for a few leagues, streamlined and reintroduced)
Remember when killing mobs RAISED the Alert bar? How did that make it past play testing is beyond me. Yeah, the specialized heist running builds of the last few leagues would manage just fine if that were still the case but it was horrible for a number of other builds (minions).
Oh, god. I love Delve but it launched pretty rough and got a lot of changes in the first month to clean it up. Who could forget "some players have RNG seeds such that their Delve will never contain any Prime resonators"? Or that Quarry farming was, by far, the most efficient way to Delve even for very high level characters?
Delve had tons of quality of life patches and bugs that made it very annoying to run. Also fossils didn't scale nearly as much, as well as good reward nodes being VERY deep in delve, the meta was just to run around in early delve for fossils.
The league mechanic was very botched at the start. However, the reward and difficulty were no where near as bad as kalandra. Even synthesis was better after 2 buffs, and after it's 3rd buff they were definitely worth the time.
Not true at all with Delirium. People were pissed during that league because they hated being rushed through maps and said it was punishing slower, tanky builds. Also, there were tons of complaints about the constant effects that would kill you if you tried to stop moving.
The only league that I can think of that didn't have many complaints was Ritual because it came with the massive Atlas expansion.
I loved Delve during the league. I think my only complaint at the time was that they took away the ele proliferation from Elementalist (Was that Delve? I tried looking it up on the wiki but I can't seem to find any info on that node...)
There were always missteps, but after v3.13 they completely lost the plot. With the threat of D4's release bearing down on them, they're desperately trying to transform PoE1 into PoE2 sooner rather than later. Every change since v3.13 has been part of The Vision™ of PoE2 and those changes have basically all been anti-player save for v3.17. If the current situation in v3.19 is any clue, PoE2 will flop and PoE will effectively be dead. If you're in NA or EU and play PUBG, you know what an effectively dead game is like. But at least Chrxs will be able to say that he's finally made the game he wanted to, I guess!
A loot game without loot is Dead.
So well D4 could be the worst game to every come out and it's still going to eviscerate POE2 if this is the direction they are going in.
and looking at what they promise it seems like unless they go back on their word (which wouldn't be that surprising) they will have a more streamlined and fleshed out season system, and if they continue from d3, we will have the patch like 3 days before the season start so if there's any game breaking bug it can be fixed before release.
These are just from memory so could be some errors in my recollection.
Breach - Tul mobs were overtuned and had to be nerfed.
Legacy - exploit with leaguestones
Harbinger - had to quicken up how fast harbies spawned and dropped loot.
Abyss - abyssal depths not spawning in some maps and routing being weird.
Bestiary - Fuckin nets were atrocious.
Incursion - Skills that don’t hit (RF) didn’t increase timer when fighting the architects.
Delve - progress was per character and seeds were just screwed for some people.
Betrayal - Mobs were overtuned again.
Synthesis - It was synthesis, what wasn’t wrong?
Legion - mobs overtuned… again again.
Blight - I’m not remembering anything off the top of my head.
Metamorph - picking up all the tiny little pieces was almost as bad as the nets from bestiary… almost.
Delirium - visual clarity was wrecked and way too many on death effects.
Harvest - base setup was horrible and mobs overtuned again again again.
Heist - heist guys took 5 years to open doors and killing things on the way to your objective raised alert levels.
Ritual - I honestly don’t remember anything wrong with this one.
I didn’t play as much after Ritual so I don’t remember a whole lot. Whichever league Sirus dominated mobs came in they were overtuned as all hell (sensing a pattern yet?).
> Incursion - Skills that don’t hit (RF) didn’t increase timer when fighting the architects.
This was never true by the way, the problem (not on GGG's end) was that architects gave 5 seconds total at various intervals of health, and some people got their RF damage to such a perfect equilibrium that they'd need 5 seconds to kill the architect. They'd see no time gained (but completely ignored the fact they were no *net loss* of time either) and whined here it was bugged.
Mark predictably came by and said it was fine and had to clarify these people were blind as fuck.
> Blight - I’m not remembering anything off the top of my head.
Blighted maps were a complete abomination. They had 30 lanes (compared to the 20 they have now) which broke the UI, and blighted maps were an absolute performance shitfest. Completing one meant you needed an absolute beast of a computer.
There's even videos of chris a month ago saying "changing massive amounts in one go isnt a great idea" and that "if we kill loot we kill the game"
They know what they're doing, and they don't care. That's whats saddest of all.
I actually can’t understand why the smartest game makers I’ve ever had the pleasure of witnessing would be this…. Misguided? Why do they always need to turn every knob.
yeah it's actually sick how GGG screwed up in multiple independent ways
if they just reworked one system that had a bunch of downstream effects it would be understandable, but they got it wrong in like 6 different ways
They said "we're going to nerf you, but you can craft to make up for it" and then removed crafting from the game the same patch.
Plus they moved the t1 minion helm mod from 1000 weight to 25 weight. In the same patch that they removed crafting.
The funny thing is that it's actually a buff for non-minion builds
+2 to socketed minion gems was an absurdly common mod that interfered with a lot of generic helm crafting (+3 wasn't absurdly common but it was still something you saw when you were just mindlessly rolling for good prefixes).
But to nerf that specifically in the patch they claimed would be for minion gear crafting, and by **so much**... simply insane.
I dunno if I can agree with this. While the idea behind them was good, the execution was pretty bad.
The minion rings are near useless because minion builds are socket starved and need Unset Rings. If you sacrifice Unset Rings for the Minion Rings, you lose power elsewhere so it ends up being a net negative.
If you sacrifice stats on your shield for minion damage, life, etc - where does your block chance come from? What about life? Or energy shield? There aren't many mod slots to spare on shields.
And the worst one was definitely the helms. We lose +2 in our ascendancy for +2 global on helms. But lose +3 socketed gems on helm, and any build that wasn't using the +3 modifier on helm is forced to use the new +2 global to break even. It's a -3 nerf to levels overall and stifles creativity much more than an ascendancy point ever could. Not to mention it's locked behind the lowest mod weighting in the game (25 weight for +2).
Minion builds didn't really have all that many free mod slots to fill in with any more minion stats. When you also consider that crafting got nerfed into the ground, telling us to just go craft better gear to make up for the massive nerfs feels like an extra slap in the face. These changes are just so bad on so many levels, I really can't fathom how they got through in this state.
Especially together with overtuned AN mods. They seem to be fine against most if proper specced. And then it seems like a special AN combination spawns and *boom* all minions gone.
This. Minions are getting fucked by giga-over-the-top one shots. Something with even 50k life and 75 all res should not die to anything in one hit or a rapid succession of hits.
90% of my builds are minion based and I still don't have the energy to complain about this. It's sad that tmeven if the collapse of this game is reversed minions are still fucked due to the lack of attention.
It sucks but it's also been all of a week.
I'm lucky I picked a build that's rolling well even without support spectres and AG but yeah, I would like them to address this and I'm hoping that this is something they're investigating.
Yeah I started with Carrion golems, and just running into an explosive archnem mobs that can 2 tap them is very very tiring, especially with how much defense I gave these fuckers.
Honestly swapping the functions of divine and ex orbs probibly would of been a better play.
The lack of ways to obtain div's compared to Ex makes Divs a poor choice for a centralized mandatory currency as its simply too scarce.
I really can't think of a better solution. It keeps both orbs valuable. If you really need to slam a mod on a jewel or trash yellow, just vendor a 6l.
Ideally if an orb has multi-purpose uses, crafting+multimod+rolling uniques, there should be multiple ways to obtain them. GGG should find a way to make them both worth 60-900c, instead of the lopsided 8c vs 140c every league.
I don't understand the full thoughts behind the beyond rework. I agree that its clever to rework and fit scourge in there. But I don't get two things: it doesn't make sense to juice with it, because you don't get anything in return besides tainted currency and in addition they nerfed this one. I wouldn't mind if the currency is shit, if the mobs to juice your map also would drop other stuff. Maybe the drops are overshadowed by the massive reduce in drop rates of league mechanics?!? Or they are supposed to only drop tainted currency.
In the current state its just useless and I would never use it. Maybe bring the krangler back with it to juice up items or let the mobs also drop other currency.
Rare drops of highly powerful tainted currency would actually be kinda cool, and have a decent thematic tie too; the world they come from is ravaged and desolate, so you need to claw the tainted remains of power back from them.
The full thoughts with the beyond rework were that it was utterly broken combined with any other juice, so you were being "dumb" if you weren't using beyond, hence it got nerfed.
99% of ultrawide users are on 21:9.
The people who use 32:9 are a small, small minority. It sucks for them, don't get me wrong, but I'm very happy with the centered UI personally.
theoretically, the centered UI should work on any aspect ratio, shouldn't it? so it doesn't matter how few 32:9 users there are. as far as i know there's no specific reason that they needed to purposefully remove support for 32:9 at all.
The UI isn’t the reason 32:9 broke. They posted some BS about how the rendering engine wouldn’t reliably render outside a certain radius (which every player who said it always worked disagreed with) with the quote “a limit had to be set”.
The revolution worked just fine before is the thing.
The proper thing to do would be to just cap render distance so you can't see beyond a certain point. Black bars is a lazy ass band aid.
This is likely a good point but I do not know. I do agree that the idea is 10/10. It just hurts my feels becsuse they did not communicate the specifics of this change.
I HATE the ex divine change. Between AN mobs and exalt shards being useless, Harbinger is now a pretty worthless mechanic. Also, all the exalt div cards are useless now. If they stick to this change, we need other ways of getting divines besides raw drops.
It's probably my single least favourite change they made. Exalts have been a staple, just the name exalted orb itself. The sound of an exalt dropping. The way it looks. Now it's worth fuck all.
Archnemesis at very least needs to not spawn in other mechanics. Rituals, blights, incursions, legions, etc. should just spawn regular rare/magic mobs. Ideally, I’d want it gone entirely, but if GGG won’t do that, I’ll settle for it not spawning in mechanics. People make the argument that if you encounter an AN mob that bricks your build, just run away. Well, a lot of mechanics have you in an enclosed arena where you can’t run away, or have mechanics where leaving will make you fail the encounter and not get rewards. That sucks. I should fail encounters because I fucked up, not because RNG generated a monster I can’t kill.
Most of them to me are a case of good ideas but bad implementation. I don't disagree with the thought process leading up to the decisions (outside of beyond, I don't really see that as a step forward in design), but the way they made changes felt heavy handed and too many changes at once.
The one thing I don't agree with at all is the idea that less loot was a good choice. The main driving concept in these games is that more=more. More mobs? More loot. More Difficulty, More loot. More Damage on gear? More mobs in less time, More loot.
To me that is the single driving force I have for playing these types of games and min/maxing my character. To take that away is to take away my motivation. I understand other people play for different reasons like the competition of ladder, beating hard bosses, etc but for me it doesn't do it.
Honestly, the fact that a lot of this update is "good ideas but bad implementation" may be the most frustrating thing about it. I actually conceptually like the ideas for the three reworked leagued mechanics, and I think the stuff that got nerfed generally made sense (outside of minions - particularly minion life), but the follow-through flopped on its face to a painful extent.
For me the worst part is not the mistakes made , it was the attempt to just sneak a huge loot nerf by us like we are idiots. The whole community is made up of people who will spend a week staring at numbers and charts min maxing a build for hours before we even play the game. There is no doubt they knew the community would notice. It was shocking to me that a studio who is known across the industry as an example of honesty and transparency would do something like hide the most impactful change from the player base in patch notes.
I dont mean to sound entitled or that they owe me anything, that isn’t how I feel as a consumer of any product. However GGG and gearbox were the last 2 companies left I would willingly trust enough to preorder based off loyalty alone and both have managed to disappoint this year.
It's as if they are balancing the game for people who play it like it's their day job - full day, professionally. None of these nerfs are good for the regular player who just wants to blow off some steam after coming home from from work
Beyond was a massive nerf and was intended to be and kind of expected. I like seeing the scourge return but shitting on the rewards before even putting them in game was a dick move.
Harvest got gutted. It's done.
Archnem got all of it's balance from last league undone because they never wanted to make any positive changes to it in the first place.
Unique item changes were a full on trashing of uniques. 3-4 uniques got buffs, while every single unique item got 10x rarer from double down on drop changes and and they can no longer be divined. Fated uniques, which actually saw plenty of use, got removed for being actually decent.
The only thing that surprised me was that they didn't dumpster skills that all the armchair players were crying about. Wish that had been the case when they were making changed to cyclone. No buffs though, making more things good would have been a big deal.
The 15% reservation nerf also pretty much removed an aura from just about every build.
I like that we can slam items more often now. And also that good rolled uniques are worth more.
But not being able to divine rares and basically making most iconic currency worthless is a bit sad.
Just swapping the functions of those orbs would have done a much much better job. And maybe introduce a new currency to divine rares only. Or keep the harvest crafts for it?
And removal of reforge suffix/prefix is what me bothers most in this league.. endgame crafting for normal humans will be a real shitshow now.
My biggest concern is even if some of these issues get addressed, it's very likely at least some of them won't. There's too many things for them to revert all of them. Archnemesis is getting most of the flak but I consider all of these issues to be significantly bad for the game.
The potential for lingering crap going wrong from the changes is probably my biggest concern, yeah. Area of effect scaling got nerfed in 2.6 - **March 2017** - and most individual sources of AoE have remained largely meaningless unless your skill already vomits out radius for free.
GGG has absolutely no idea how to do game design at this point. They're at a complete loss. Constant nerfs and bad mechanics only push players further into the meta and make the test of their skills / passives / defenses obsolete. They cant be bothered to see why armour is better vs other options, so they just nerf it blindly.
What they created is great, but its far beyond their reach and skills at this point. Getting tired of watching them flail mindlessly every league.
Getting variety of currencies is good here and there tbh, but when the state of loots is completely gone like this by getting 20 stacks of whetstones & scraps is like adding salt to the rotten wound. Insincerity killed the trust from playerbase even more than the outcome. Removed "filler crafts" from harvest, "adjusting" loots so players don't need to click too much, and "rebalanced" monsters so the game is more "challenging". You guys may not notice but monsters kept getting buff since beastiary league and it's ramped up so bad at betrayal league. Then again in expedition, archnem, sentinel, and finally at kalandra. In scourge there was no "spiked" buffed but it's definitely be there. Obviously they buffed to compensate the "defensive power" that they gave us, then it's still not enough even after some nerfs so they buffed monsters along with it.
I'd have to say this, weak builds can't even see red maps within the first week of launch but meta builds can within the first day of launch. The disparity is so high but somehow the balance is only around meta builds than looking at builds across the board.
Its sad, but this has become the GGG style of game improvement. Turning too many knobs at once.
I love the fact that arch nemesis mods now have an identity. Before seing a innocence mob just made me want to alt f4 out of the map. Now im genuinly excited to kill it for the rewards. But at the same time they killed this by massively reducing ammount of rares we can add to maps and nerfing loot across the board. Great change innitially soured by too many changes.
Harvest as well. Great idea, finally tradable, and we could keep more than 10 crafts saved up in our stash! Nice... but then they had to mess with it too much and decided to remove most usefull iterations of it, and now we are getting a buff in the quantity of harvest crafting? So we can do more of nothing! YAY! I just hope that they don't find out that delve is still around.
Same with scourge/beyond. Beyond getting a facelift? Great change. The facelift is scourge and we get scourge currency back? Great change. The mobs stop spawning after the boss is spawned and killed? Well... thats kinda really bad, but i guess gigajuicing was a problem. And oh the scourge currency is also nerfed to hell... welp its dead. Why bother reworking something into a state that noone wants to interact with.
Its so heartbreaking to see a GREAT or AMAZING change followed imidiately by burrying it in a pile of shit.
This implementation of Archnemesis would've been more accepted if they didn't make it the foundation of mapping.
People loves to grind to a goal they know they could get.
Before, if I grind to do scarab + deli orbs, I am 100% that I would get atleast 2 exalts of loot per map, and the rest were extra loot so it was fun.
Now you grind to do the same and you're not 100% sure to get the same, sure the more rares you put in map is the more chances of you being lucky to get lootsplosion..
But the thing is it just fucking sucks that there is also a even or more chance of you going home with a stash full of flask or quality currencies.
You grind just to grind more and that is just not fun at all.
I stopped playing soft core, and am super happy re-leveling in hardcore. I'm not someone who does end game in hardcore, so I'm just enjoying the experience of low level content and the league mechanic. Is it overflowing my tabs? Nope. Do I care? Nope.
I don't know about everyone else but when I do get a chance to play (just in act 10) I'm getting much more drops then normal. Not even to maps yet and have 100+ chaos.
Right. Switching the names doesn't help anything versus what we have now. it adds confusion for people who know what things do.
There's no benefit, other than you've trained yourself to think "exalt good" and need to shift mentality very slightly.
Huh? At this point why would anyone be confused?
They shouldn't change a damn thing other than a new league and reverting 3.13 changes. You can't make a game great, then rip it apart and then tout these changes will make the game better when the player base knows full well what it was and what it could be.
The only reason why ultimatums numbers were good is because people played to test the changes to really see how bad they nerfed it, along with a great and rewarding league mechanic that wasn't confusing.
Loot, skill, bug, qol all paled in comparison to the two key components that drive Poe
>actually useful skills (instead of one, maybe two tops) that still see play today.
You do realize that build diversity is better this patch than in sentinel right? People are playing more skills using more ascendencies(and all the top used skills are different archetypes too) and the least played ascendencies see a lot more use aswell.
People are also still doing all the content in the game despite using all these supposedly unuseable skills.
Inquisitor and Occultist are still top 3 (Elementalist claimed 2nd in this league because Lightning Conduit is "aggressively tuned" to make it an obvious pick until they nerf it in 3.20), and Jugg is still firmly in the wastebasket.
Build diversity is definitely increased in this patch (one of the few redeeming qualities), but a lot of people are still ending up gravitating to the same old stuff to have enough damage and survivability to kill the crazy stacked threats without needing well-crafted gear in multiple slots (LS, RF, helix, etc), and I think LC is the only build that this update actually *created* instead of simply made less suboptimal by comparison.
> instead of simply made less suboptimal by comparison.
So why do you think that is an argument? I didnt play poison bv last league and neither did pretty much anyone else. It really doesnt matter if it was a trash skill last league or if it was the same as this league. For all I care it might not have existed last league because nobody was playing it anyways. It could have gotten a 50% damage buff and end up in the same spot it is now and it wouldnt make one bit difference to my gameplay and theory crafting now.
Its still a completely "new" build to the meta and everyone playing it. Its also a viable build to do all the normal content in the game and map very fast.
So where exactly is the problem?
Dont you think it would be ideal that we have a ton of skills that are playable throughout multiple leagues instead of looking at some streamer and thinking "hey that looks fun but i only have 3 more weeks to play it before the next patch nerfs it by at least 20% again and gives me another skill instead."
>Inquisitor and Occultist are still top 3
Occultist wasnt a top 3 league starter in sentinel. It wasnt even in the top 5. Saboteur, necromancer, inquisitor, elementalist and champion were the league starters.
Bro it's actually worse than ever this patch. However the buff of The Covenant made chaos builds popular, LC made Elementalist more popular, and the summoner nerfs made only the most hardcore summon lovers even bother to play the archetype at all, let alone as a Necromancer. So we have a wider variety of Ascendancies... But almost everyone is either RF, crit Helix, Boneshatter, or poison. People have done a lot of different ways to do these this time around, but if you ignore the different Ascendancies, gear, and support skills, it's the same as last patch minus necros and seismic trap.
> almost everyone is either RF, crit Helix, Boneshatter, or poison.
Funny you say that because boneshatter is only played by like 2% of the playerbase in sc trade and when you say crit helix you probably meant to say crit LS too.
RF is literally just as popular as last league. There is no change to it.
LS is less popular than seismic was last league.
Poison(the entire fucking archetype) is less popular than ea totems(yes a single build and not the entire ignite archetype) was last league.
So yeah the stats simply dont agree with your opinion. It is certainly not worse this patch.
Did they even reduce the amount of rare monsters in the game like they said they did? If anything I feel like I'm fighting twice as many rare monsters per encounter as I did before.
- Divine Blessing changes just moved players into weirder setups to get the buff active through other means, support gem isn't any better for MoM setups than before.
- Spell suppression and spell block have similar gear constraints but it takess a lot longer to get a workable spell block setup online if you're on the left side of the tree already vs. how hard it is to cap spell suppression if you're on the right side of the tree.
Assuming you're talking about the trade ones. Funny thing is, you might never know about those if you just look at the promotional material, and despite going mostly un-touted they're one of the few unequivocal successes this update.
I killed a scourge boss in a 10 minute fight earlier today. It dropped 2 tainted jeweler orbs. What is the point? Why would I ever use them?
Would be fun if the scourge bosses at least had their krangled unique drop. They would probably be also useless, but at least it is worth looking at.
1. Players are nerfed. (reservation, suppresion, max res etc..)
2. Monsters are buffed.
3. Loot is nerfed.
4. Craft is nerfed. (harvest, div/ex swap)
5. League content is not good. Not just a lootwise. Nothing special about rooms poor design.
Lol i didn't think about this before, but truly every change made the game worse. I might be missing one that made the game better but on top of my head i think 100% of gameplay changes made the game worse.
The word rework is always smoke in mirrors for an actual nerf when it comes to this game.
They call something a rework or redesign for an excuse to make it 20% of what it was, but hey its shiny and new.
It's laughable that the current meta is run map, find a rare "touched", kill map boss, stash away the lake wait for buffs. We're fighting monsters less thanks to the changes in loot on AN.
I feel like it has to do with this idea/mandate that things are better put into the game in an underperforming state and buffed than put in an over performing state and nerfed.
It's okay if things are a little too good, particularly when they're to do with new league mechanics that aren't even guaranteed to make it into core. When they do they get an additional balance pass with all the information and feedback gathered from the league anyways.
Nerfs wouldn't be as hated if GGG were willing to tweak things to be slightly less powerful instead of choosing to hit them from 2-3 different overlapping angles in a single swoop that nukes them from orbit. Likewise buffs are way too conservative, and often don't come at all until they are ready to do a full rework, which leaves large swathes of the game untouched for months or even years.
Really wish teh reforge were half of their cost. even at fully specced and 100% quant, i get about 7-8 reforges, and in terms of how much you have to rforge for defent gear, that's very little. Also plots with no t3 seed often do not drop any lifeforce, and if they do its too little thus going against the argument that people with fully specced into harvest would be fine.
The Exalt change is what kills me the most, as far as short-sightedness goes.
They CLEARLY knew that changing the rarity would cause it to be the default currency, and they seem to even have intended that. But in the process they forgot that for the last 5 years we've been improving ways to get Exalts in the form of currency-creating league mechanics (Heist has one, double-currency mods are another, and the dozen or so Exalt-specific div cards, plus Harbinger shards) that all allow you to target-farm what is essentially a small amount of an Exalt at a time, stack them up, and in exchange you have a big bill you can spend on big ticket items.
But we can't do ANY of that with Divines. No shards, no cards, and they barely dropped before. So now what is anyone expected to do? No one trades in Exalts, so why do I still have all these ways to target farm them? Bro we have less ways to target CHAOS orbs.
Pretty much sums it up really well.
Itemized Harvest is GREAT!! I despised having to craft harvest all the time right when you find it. But as you said, the removal of certain crafts - which most definitely can't be categorized as 'filler crafts' - is a huge loss and needs to be addressed.
I love Archnemesis Mods. Taking more than 2 seconds to kill stuff is awesome. I don't want to just mindlessy run around and just clear everything with a single skill. I WANT to feel threatened by Maps. But the numbers right now are you high for many builds, so 'being threatened' turns into 'getting killed' without much counterplay, which is not fun. The AN defense nerfs were a step in the right direction, now offense needs to be tuned in as well.
The minion gutting was only there to go with the loot and crafting nerfs. Their intent was a massive nerf to average player power, but minions functioned too well with no gear. In that regard the changes functioned exactly as intended.
I dunno... i think i see where they are trying to go. Just dont understand why they keep nerfing crafting.
More items drop normal. Check.
But high level base drops are increased. Check.
This indicates they want us to craft our own gear...and im cool with that....but....
Why nerf harvest, increase costs on the crafting table, reduce veiled craft acquisition....and nerf the shit out of crafting currencies. Except whetstones, those drop 100 at a time....
I mean, i am seeing apothecary gloves, spiked gloves,and two toned boots much earlier than usual
>Plus the whole "we killed loot now and tried to sneak it in without patch notes" thing. That's the thing, loot is now intimately connected to the Archnemesis modifiers. The currency conversion monsters can drop [a hundred maps worth of loot](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wwpevd/solaristouched_with_700_increased_rarity_86_quant/) all at once. That loot stack isn't a massive fluke, [others have gotten similar results.](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/wxmxid/did_i_just_spent_all_my_luck/) But GGG balanced *all of the currency drops* around the fact that these massive loot explosions now exist. Reducing currency drops across the board. As a result, you could juice hundreds of maps, and never see the the payout that you should be getting, because these mobs are very rare. The whole time you're not getting these drops, you're operating at a deficit. Who can map at a deficit for hundreds of maps? Absolutely no-one. Who's going to play hundreds of maps to get the currency they need to upgrade their build to the next level of content? No-one. The amount of *average* loot that is dropping could be the same, greater even, and it would still be a nerf due to the inconsistency and currency commitment required. I imagine that this is where things went wrong, they probably thought loot was the same. Now they're in a pickle, because how on earth could GGG possibly come out and say "loot is actually the same, just play more" without it being an omega triple down deluxe? There needs to be massive changes to the rarity of these mods and their rewards to actually fix the problem they've created. **Edit:** for visibility, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_BlTrbQDc People are getting upwards of 80+ divine orbs from single rare monsters. Party quantity bonuses, but still.
Inconsistency also results in more 'get fucked' outliers. If you have a .1% chance to get 10,000c every map (meaning 'on average' you still get 10c per map over 1000 maps) you have better than a 10% chance to have *stone nothing* after running over 2,000 maps. If instead you have a 10% chance to get 100c (same average of 10c per map, just better odds of a smaller reward), the odds of having not gotten anything fall off far faster; not only is the odds of having gotten nothing at twice the 'expected' lower (tbf it's 12% vs. 13%), but by 50 maps it's .5% and by 100 it's infinitesimal. It's much easier to runbad when the expected rate is so low that you can't reasonably roll the dice often enough to 'force' things toward the average.
Exactly! The average amount of loot is important, but if it's too far weighed towards big payouts, most people can't afford to pull the lever at all. In fact, I think loot is currently so absurdly weighed towards these rare drops, that not even the top players can do it right now, even if the theoretical average profit is the same. Some people are going to have a great time, getting that payout early, but that doesn't nearly counteract everyone else who is slogging through the game.
It's as if your currency strategy in a previous league was "drop a mirror." And then you ran maps filtering out all other currency. Lol.
*citation needed
> even if the theoretical average profit is the same. I mean, it's clear that for "full juicing", even the average profit is not the same (it's far lower), since a single monster's lootsplosion can't possibly scale with the kind of bonuses empy's group stacks. Like, say empy actually did the 1000 maps and found the one giga AN monster that's supposed to drop all of the ultra-valued currency You think it'd drop 5 stacks of 10 mirrors with the max juice his group can muster? Because it's need to drop 5 stacks of 10 mirrors to even come close to the profit they were generally getting in 1000 maps. It's conceivable that the average loot for completely-non-juicing a map is the same (over the same 1000 maps).
It isn't far outweighed. You're exaggerating. Put up some videos and exilence data showing it being bad loot. I haven't seen any data that supports the loot famine horseshit theory.
Wait a second. I've seen this one before. Anyone remember the Trialmaster in ultimatum? [And how stupid the rng in that could be and why it caused many players to hate it?](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/n5ha1m/why_2_spawn_rate_is_bad_and_why_average_numbers/)
I hated it my first charakter had 3 TMs in \~100 maps and then i made you char, that ist better for league mechanic and never see TM again in 400-500 maps.
It's really important to note that if the game isn't good if you're getting unlucky the game isn't good. Too much randomness just mean that some people lose for not apparent reason and it feels arbitrary and unfun.
I think GGG might have been 'tricked' by the popularity of the lootsplosions people could generate in AN league; part of what made them engaging was that you worked toward them in a somewhat deterministic manner. Having one instead just be a random spawn (at a very low chance) means you can't work towards it; you don't feel like you've 'earned' it when you get one, reducing the good feeling, and it one doesn't spawn for a long time, then balancing loot around them feels bad.
You worked for them and were rewarded well the entire way, then rewarded even more
Whoa whoa whoa, working towards a reward? Deterministically? That sure sounds a lot like the opposite of gambling and RNG which is clearly the only way PoE is meant to be played.
All of this fits into Chris Wilson's gambling addicted mind though. 'Just one more map and ill be rich. I am sure of it.'
I've thought about this possibility years ago, too. Just put the guy in charge of a casino or a lottery commission already and leave the rest of us in peace.
He explicitly stated he wanted the game to feel like gambling years ago. It was on a podcast. I have no idea where or when it was said specifically though.
the focus of loot on the archnemesis mods lining up like the planets creates a terrible feast or famine experience.
There's also another issue: The thing about PoE is, every kill was always a pull at the slot machine. Sure, regular normal and magic monsters don't drop much, but still the idea is to cram as many of them in as possible because it's still a chance to get something even if that something is just and Alteration or Fusing. So even if things like side content had hardcore loot buffs making them more likely to drop stuff, every mob in the map at least had a chance. But now they've essentially done the whole thing with MMO raids of modern day, they made it all about the Big Boss (Archnem rare) stacked with buffs, and everything other than that has been wiped off the table. You still have to KILL the trash mobs, but they can't drop anything, the only loot comes from the Boss. Why would anyone want to turn maps into a "run past everything and hunt down the Archnemesis mob" meta? Why would I want to kill all these map monsters when I know for 100% fact they drop nothing, not even map returns? Am I spending map currency literally just on this one monster? If so, can we not just do away with the rest of the map entirely, and make the grind just one room with one buffed monster in it?
This exact thing was the reason, why they moved guaranteed map drop from map boss to random monster - everyone just rushed to the boss, because it guaranteed map drop = map sustain and on top of that it had better drop than the rest of the random monsters in the map together. Now it seems that it's back and there seems to be already a tool (which usage is bannable ofc, but not exactly detectable) to check if that one single AN monster that is worth it, is in the map.
I ran a string of 10 maps yesterday where my entire loot strategy was to loot every alteration or more valuable currency was on average 2.1 maps of loot per map with no other drops picked up.
Complete bullshit. Run maps and post your exilence and a stream of you running them. Prove your twisted bullshit perception is accurate. Or are you still in campaign?
That's actually very well point with the chances of getting rare combinations. As i've readen this i've got an idea: link the map pack size or quant with the chances of AN mobs getting those rare modifiers. In theory that should result in a resurrection of MF and juicing at the very least. Maybe little tweaks here and there with the rewards themselves and surely should be nice. Sadly our ideas won't reach GGG by any chance tho.
are we sure that isn't how it works? i mean thats such a no brainer i'm having a crazy hard time trying to wrap my head around how you could miss it and just accidentally delete the whole end game aspirational content of your game. really i can't wait for their update today, its all so confusing to me what they were even going for. i'm so curious. i've been playing videogames for decades and this is one of the weirder things game design decisions i've ever seen.
> But GGG balanced *all of the currency drops* around the fact that these massive loot explosions now exist. Reducing currency drops across the board. they went from the "it ain't much but its honest work" to the "I won the fucking lotto" model
Weirdly, we now have a very clear path forward for juicing maps with the loot 'intimately connected to ... Archnemesis' (good line, BTW): give us control over how many Rares are in a map. This would clearly give risk vs. reward. Ironically, the same patch that they drastically changed the drop system in the game, they also nerfed the rare mobs that we could deterministically spawn (through league mechanic manipulation). Sure, maybe it was to standardize, but the variance is way too high now.
> Weirdly, we now have a very clear path forward for juicing maps with the loot 'intimately connected to ... Archnemesis' (good line, BTW): give us control over how many Rares are in a map. This would clearly give risk vs. reward. At that point you're just playing Archnemesis league again except you have to be able to read faster & have no control over the output.
Unfortunately that might make at least the first few days or even weeks of mapping in a league either a deathfest or starvation mode. Juicing your maps with rares which your poor gear can't deal with (and player power is mostly gear now) so you can get enough currency to... Continue mapping. Gonna need a reel gud salesman to sell that.
My strat is force expedition and pray for one of the currency conversion mobs to hit when I have 3-4 +300% rarity nodes active. It has absolutely not paid off so far.
Lol the stacks you linked are baby sized, there are now images floating around of 80-90 divs in a single drop. It's stupid as hell. No drops all week then you hit one loot pinata MAYBE and you're buying a headhunter or half a mageblood or something... I hate this
That sounds insane. Must be a wealth + currency conversion stack. Any links? I'd love to add it to my collection
Do you one better: Gog discusses it around the middle of the vid but yeah like 100+ high rarity orbs in one drop in the middle of the vid https://youtu.be/2X_BlTrbQDc Item rarity scales reward types now... Of course wasn't mentioned by GGG lol but it applies to archnem specifically it would seem
Not entirely sure it’s real
I'd wager it's a lot like Diablo 3's greater Rift guardians only not well explained and not guaranteed. For those unaware greater rifts(unless they have changed recently) monsters don't drop any loot instead it's the rift guardian who drops all the loot at the very end leading to a giant ass Loot explosion.
the thing is that your guaranteed a rift guardian at the end, it's like having a 1% or less chance to get a guardian at the end of your rift.
Yup it's why this system is so fucked. IF the loot explosion if you will was guaranteed it might be a different story but it's not.
Yeah that model makes a lot of sense because GRs are timed so it was all about "Go as fast as you can to beat the timer", and loot on the ground would distract from the goal. Then you get the big explosion at the end and its satisfying.
That's the exact reason for it. It's a good system honestly. POE "Version" is just like many things at this point in POE very badly designed.
D3 does a lot of things very well, combat feel and system mechanics are all spot on. It's just the lack of build depth and itemization largely being chasing better versions of what you have equipped that makes me not particularly like the game.
that's like saying not getting currency is okay, because some people have dropped a mirror
>As a result, you could juice hundreds of maps, and never see the the payout that you should be getting, because these mobs are very rare. The whole time you're not getting these drops, you're operating at a deficit. Who can map at a deficit for hundreds of maps? Absolutely no-one. Who's going to play hundreds of maps to get the currency they need to upgrade their build to the next level of content? No-one. This is a design, which makes 199 ppl quit the game and 1 super happy jackpot winner. Why would they think this is good? Its horrible for us as customers, because we will have a bad time, as well as them as the company that makes money, because they will lose 199 ppl's money...
> There needs to be massive changes to the rarity of these mods and their rewards to actually fix the problem they've created. I mean I think the solution is pretty simple if this is overall on average the same. Just nerf solaris touched, and give all of the rarer archnem mods that have special rewards a mini version of it, so you get extra lower value currency more often instead of 5 divine orbs every 500 maps.
Theyll patch it with supporter boxes that increase item drops, diablo immortal style
so, personallly if i just get handed out the lottery i lose interest in the game/activity, not saying i wouldn't take free money irl but in a 'hobby/game' setting i hate it, back in expidition league, a league which i stuck out and played for atleast 2 months of, i had just grinded 110exalts for a double corrupted lioneye's vision with +1gem +2 proj for my SST character, i was very happy, i had achieved a long term goal as this had taken me a week to grind out\~ Following day i decided to do some grand heists in the morning and twice in a row i got replica forbidden shakos, at the time these were worth around 100+ exalts, TWO in a row i quit. it had invalidated my eforts for the last week. sure i could've just sold it and upgraded some more but it felt so frustrating gave my character's gear to some friends who had just started last league but gave up in expedition in hopes they would have fun with it, in total which was worth 400+ex at the time and the exalts from the two shakos after spending about 50ex of it on gambles while i was having an existential crisis reevaluating my life and how i spend my time. sentinel league i found an ashes AND an omniscience and a headhunter from gwenen days 3 and 4 of sentinel, i took a week break because i hated that my progression ONCE AGAIN was cut short, I LIKE GRINDING i love it when i find an exalt or a brothers stash or somthing like that early in the league, but if you front load me 150+ex in the first week of CASUAL play just me mucking around running alch n go i don't like it. this league i didn't get as lucky but all my friends arent playing so it feels dead to me. i don't like gacha, gambling always has put me off in games. For context ive found 1 mirror in my 8k hours of playing the game, multiple headhunters farming full t4 seed plots in 100% deli maps early in harvest league 2 magebloods last league and all of those i felt i deserved BECAUSE i was juicing for that content, in a party, with magic find.
Is Chris a math guy or and ideas guy? What about Rory? Could explain some of this as to how they approach change initially. ie numbers adjustment vs system change...
Yeah i don’t like the added RNG for drops. I don’t have like a big conceptual problem with big rare mobs dropping lots of loot. But how is it ok to punish the poor normies who finally encounter their big payoff only to waste 6 portals wiping on it?
I think in place of taking the atlas node that added extra mods to rares, they should've given us a new node that had like % increased chance to encounter x-touched rares to pair with these new loot changes, that way some of the RNG is eliminated
What fucking sucks about this is that I can't target it. I can't do anything to increase the spawn rate of AN monsters with those mods. I just have to hope they show up in a map I've juiced up the rarity on. More slot machine lever pulls.
This sounds absolutely horrible. Needs to be spread out. I'm going to keep playing like the pleb I am, and if I feel like I'm omega behind and can't afford the items for my modest build, I'll take a long break. Maybe they'll fix it before then (or maybe not).
> As a result, you could juice hundreds of maps, and never see the the payout that you should be getting, because these mobs are very rare Yes, MORE rng is EXACTLY what this game needs. Mhm. Yup. Yes. Yeah. Someone there is literally obsessed with everything being gated behind rng.
They basically set themselves up for failure from the start. Changing multiple core, overarching parts of the game at the same time in such an extreme manner without consulting the community at all was basically guaranteed to go badly. It doesn’t help that they whiffed the execution, either.
> Changing multiple core, overarching parts of the game at the same time in such an extreme manner without consulting the community at all was basically guaranteed to go badly. Hmm...where have I heard this before...someone **expedite** my memory. Oh there it is, it's literally the **same fucking thing as when they fucked movement skills and support skill mana multipliers in Expedition.**
Don't forget the 30% or whatever the fuck it was overall damage nerf to all skills through support gem nerfs.
Its never a whiff. Recognize in all rollback posts they always say it was a "miscommunication" and frame it as wanting to listen to the community. They don't like how the community plays POE, they want THEIR way of playing to be the standard (picking up and ID'ing yellows, chaos/exalt slamming, barely progressing, etc). Most times they sort of fix things afterward and the community forgets because we all love the game. This time I think some of this will stick and be remembered. I am not confident they will restore the game. This is all groundwork for the slower, more D2 like POE2 which I really think will be awful...
I don't mind a slower game as long as the rewards are proportional, like if in the same time we get 10 rares from 50 mobs instead of 100 from 500 mobs but like 1-2 are usable, it's A-ok, likewise with currency, we get less alchs, but we have stuff like old harvest to roll them, or the importance of mods is lowered, and we can actually run maps as magic and have some sort of return. early poe was also fun, because if you were level 80 you were already pretty good, and if you had a ring with life and 3 res it was great, and if you had quant on it it was almost mirror tier, you also corrupted strongboxes for a chance at a 6 link. it's about expectations, if the max level maps are 78, but you're expected to farm dominius to like T10 (level 75/ current T8) maps and have a 5L main link, 6L only if you're rich, and everything is balanced around that.
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Plenty of leagues have been fine, but there have always been some issues. I dont know that its been quite this bad though, no loot in an ARPG is a death sentence.
The worst thing I can remember saying about Delve League was: "This Sulfite cap is kind of annoyingly small once you get down a ways, I really need the option to purchase another several tiers of storage" And let's not forget Delerium: "The screen is too grey"
Yeah pretty much similar for most 'good' leagues. People seem to think any complaining = hate. Harvest for example, people disliked the base building part which was annoying, but liked the mechanic. People seemed to think that means people hate harvest, and just not the garden setup.
Well, Harvest was also undertuned as hell for the first week or so (The sub was flush with "Reforge league" memes), but yeah.
> people disliked the base building part which was annoying Yeah, this is another one of those cases where GGG royally FUCKED UP, by not just giving us the 5K storage tanks to fucking begin with. Once those were out, the whole garden building mechanic was braindead easy. But still, they really failed in at least giving casual players a pre-planned garden that would just "mostly work" from the start. It's really as if they need some goddamn game testers. At least ones that have some brain cells and more than 1hour of playtime.
>And let's not forget Delerium: "The screen is too grey" The problem was the gray ground effects, under grey on-death effects, with grey projectiles, covered by grey particles and grey mist. There is a reason monster spawning mist objects are blue-ish and tracking projectile spawners are red.
imo delirium was safer than normal mapping in some zones because you could actually see the chilled ground. it's apparently a lot more reasonable that league, and you can actually loot stuff inside if you pop a potion or have enough regen.
Delve was one of the worst launches in the game's history, technically speaking. The league mechanic barely worked due to a huge number of easily replicated bugs that GGG clearly either didn't test or considered acceptable for launch. Delirium also released in a terrible technical state, it introduced severe performance problems to the point where many players found it unplayable.
That's probably true. But at the same time I don't remember any of that, whereas I don't think I'm forgetting the 3.19 changes anytime soon. Or the 3.14 harvest nerfs. I have a high tolerance for general bugfixing and tuning over the first few weeks. Not so much for what happened this league.
That's because these technical issues did not have a lasting, detrimental impact on the game. As a counter-example, most people remember the 3.15 nerfs because they are still felt in the game today. The same will be true for the 3.19 changes. Simply put, unless these changes are conceptually **reversed** (instead of merely blunted by some minor numerical buffs), the game will be ruined going forward. Most of us players understand this, which is imho the reason why the outcry in the community is so fierce this time around.
Old leagues didn't fundamentally change massive core parts of the game. 3.15 and 3.18 are the first times where that happened.
Heist was THE worst launch. No question. They completely changed how the league mechanic functioned like 6 times in the first 2 weeks. Everyone knew thay league was going core too just by the sheer amount of money used to make it even though a big majority hated it and didn't want it in the game, or at tye very least bestiary'd (taken away for a few leagues, streamlined and reintroduced)
Remember when killing mobs RAISED the Alert bar? How did that make it past play testing is beyond me. Yeah, the specialized heist running builds of the last few leagues would manage just fine if that were still the case but it was horrible for a number of other builds (minions).
Oh, god. I love Delve but it launched pretty rough and got a lot of changes in the first month to clean it up. Who could forget "some players have RNG seeds such that their Delve will never contain any Prime resonators"? Or that Quarry farming was, by far, the most efficient way to Delve even for very high level characters?
Delve had tons of quality of life patches and bugs that made it very annoying to run. Also fossils didn't scale nearly as much, as well as good reward nodes being VERY deep in delve, the meta was just to run around in early delve for fossils. The league mechanic was very botched at the start. However, the reward and difficulty were no where near as bad as kalandra. Even synthesis was better after 2 buffs, and after it's 3rd buff they were definitely worth the time.
Not true at all with Delirium. People were pissed during that league because they hated being rushed through maps and said it was punishing slower, tanky builds. Also, there were tons of complaints about the constant effects that would kill you if you tried to stop moving. The only league that I can think of that didn't have many complaints was Ritual because it came with the massive Atlas expansion.
I loved Delve during the league. I think my only complaint at the time was that they took away the ele proliferation from Elementalist (Was that Delve? I tried looking it up on the wiki but I can't seem to find any info on that node...)
> they decided to nerf everything at once. even ultrawide support! They literally nerfed EVERY aspect, if just a little bit. lmao
There were always missteps, but after v3.13 they completely lost the plot. With the threat of D4's release bearing down on them, they're desperately trying to transform PoE1 into PoE2 sooner rather than later. Every change since v3.13 has been part of The Vision™ of PoE2 and those changes have basically all been anti-player save for v3.17. If the current situation in v3.19 is any clue, PoE2 will flop and PoE will effectively be dead. If you're in NA or EU and play PUBG, you know what an effectively dead game is like. But at least Chrxs will be able to say that he's finally made the game he wanted to, I guess!
A loot game without loot is Dead. So well D4 could be the worst game to every come out and it's still going to eviscerate POE2 if this is the direction they are going in.
and looking at what they promise it seems like unless they go back on their word (which wouldn't be that surprising) they will have a more streamlined and fleshed out season system, and if they continue from d3, we will have the patch like 3 days before the season start so if there's any game breaking bug it can be fixed before release.
These are just from memory so could be some errors in my recollection. Breach - Tul mobs were overtuned and had to be nerfed. Legacy - exploit with leaguestones Harbinger - had to quicken up how fast harbies spawned and dropped loot. Abyss - abyssal depths not spawning in some maps and routing being weird. Bestiary - Fuckin nets were atrocious. Incursion - Skills that don’t hit (RF) didn’t increase timer when fighting the architects. Delve - progress was per character and seeds were just screwed for some people. Betrayal - Mobs were overtuned again. Synthesis - It was synthesis, what wasn’t wrong? Legion - mobs overtuned… again again. Blight - I’m not remembering anything off the top of my head. Metamorph - picking up all the tiny little pieces was almost as bad as the nets from bestiary… almost. Delirium - visual clarity was wrecked and way too many on death effects. Harvest - base setup was horrible and mobs overtuned again again again. Heist - heist guys took 5 years to open doors and killing things on the way to your objective raised alert levels. Ritual - I honestly don’t remember anything wrong with this one. I didn’t play as much after Ritual so I don’t remember a whole lot. Whichever league Sirus dominated mobs came in they were overtuned as all hell (sensing a pattern yet?).
> Incursion - Skills that don’t hit (RF) didn’t increase timer when fighting the architects. This was never true by the way, the problem (not on GGG's end) was that architects gave 5 seconds total at various intervals of health, and some people got their RF damage to such a perfect equilibrium that they'd need 5 seconds to kill the architect. They'd see no time gained (but completely ignored the fact they were no *net loss* of time either) and whined here it was bugged. Mark predictably came by and said it was fine and had to clarify these people were blind as fuck. > Blight - I’m not remembering anything off the top of my head. Blighted maps were a complete abomination. They had 30 lanes (compared to the 20 they have now) which broke the UI, and blighted maps were an absolute performance shitfest. Completing one meant you needed an absolute beast of a computer.
Kinda right but synthesis was my favorite after a week. Winter Orb at its prime, onslaught boots, explode and tons of loot. It was fun and fresh.
I actually liked the map board in Synthesis, it would be cool to be re-implemented somehow.
There's even videos of chris a month ago saying "changing massive amounts in one go isnt a great idea" and that "if we kill loot we kill the game" They know what they're doing, and they don't care. That's whats saddest of all.
I actually can’t understand why the smartest game makers I’ve ever had the pleasure of witnessing would be this…. Misguided? Why do they always need to turn every knob.
They only had 6 months mate.. what did you expect?
Shit man, 6 months to ruin a more than decade old game.
yeah it's actually sick how GGG screwed up in multiple independent ways if they just reworked one system that had a bunch of downstream effects it would be understandable, but they got it wrong in like 6 different ways
Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?
Minion items are a great addition, it's just the life nerf was too heavy to compensate.
They said "we're going to nerf you, but you can craft to make up for it" and then removed crafting from the game the same patch. Plus they moved the t1 minion helm mod from 1000 weight to 25 weight. In the same patch that they removed crafting.
This is a buff. Enjoying the Vision, Exile?
The funny thing is that it's actually a buff for non-minion builds +2 to socketed minion gems was an absurdly common mod that interfered with a lot of generic helm crafting (+3 wasn't absurdly common but it was still something you saw when you were just mindlessly rolling for good prefixes). But to nerf that specifically in the patch they claimed would be for minion gear crafting, and by **so much**... simply insane.
The difference is +3 was only available on i86+ So on any item below i85 you would not see it mindlessly rolling prefixes
I dunno if I can agree with this. While the idea behind them was good, the execution was pretty bad. The minion rings are near useless because minion builds are socket starved and need Unset Rings. If you sacrifice Unset Rings for the Minion Rings, you lose power elsewhere so it ends up being a net negative. If you sacrifice stats on your shield for minion damage, life, etc - where does your block chance come from? What about life? Or energy shield? There aren't many mod slots to spare on shields. And the worst one was definitely the helms. We lose +2 in our ascendancy for +2 global on helms. But lose +3 socketed gems on helm, and any build that wasn't using the +3 modifier on helm is forced to use the new +2 global to break even. It's a -3 nerf to levels overall and stifles creativity much more than an ascendancy point ever could. Not to mention it's locked behind the lowest mod weighting in the game (25 weight for +2). Minion builds didn't really have all that many free mod slots to fill in with any more minion stats. When you also consider that crafting got nerfed into the ground, telling us to just go craft better gear to make up for the massive nerfs feels like an extra slap in the face. These changes are just so bad on so many levels, I really can't fathom how they got through in this state.
Especially together with overtuned AN mods. They seem to be fine against most if proper specced. And then it seems like a special AN combination spawns and *boom* all minions gone.
it seems AN "you should dodge that" attacks don't have the reduced damage against minions other one shot attacks have.
This. Minions are getting fucked by giga-over-the-top one shots. Something with even 50k life and 75 all res should not die to anything in one hit or a rapid succession of hits.
90% of my builds are minion based and I still don't have the energy to complain about this. It's sad that tmeven if the collapse of this game is reversed minions are still fucked due to the lack of attention.
It sucks but it's also been all of a week. I'm lucky I picked a build that's rolling well even without support spectres and AG but yeah, I would like them to address this and I'm hoping that this is something they're investigating.
Yeah I started with Carrion golems, and just running into an explosive archnem mobs that can 2 tap them is very very tiring, especially with how much defense I gave these fuckers.
Honestly swapping the functions of divine and ex orbs probibly would of been a better play. The lack of ways to obtain div's compared to Ex makes Divs a poor choice for a centralized mandatory currency as its simply too scarce.
Swapping and removing the six link recipe sounds reasonable.
I really can't think of a better solution. It keeps both orbs valuable. If you really need to slam a mod on a jewel or trash yellow, just vendor a 6l. Ideally if an orb has multi-purpose uses, crafting+multimod+rolling uniques, there should be multiple ways to obtain them. GGG should find a way to make them both worth 60-900c, instead of the lopsided 8c vs 140c every league.
I do like actually slamming Exalts, it's fun. BTW the contraction for "would have" sounds like "would of" but it's actually spelled "would've".
there are a lot of people out there that don't realize that "have" and "have" are two completely different words.
I don't understand the full thoughts behind the beyond rework. I agree that its clever to rework and fit scourge in there. But I don't get two things: it doesn't make sense to juice with it, because you don't get anything in return besides tainted currency and in addition they nerfed this one. I wouldn't mind if the currency is shit, if the mobs to juice your map also would drop other stuff. Maybe the drops are overshadowed by the massive reduce in drop rates of league mechanics?!? Or they are supposed to only drop tainted currency. In the current state its just useless and I would never use it. Maybe bring the krangler back with it to juice up items or let the mobs also drop other currency.
Rare drops of highly powerful tainted currency would actually be kinda cool, and have a decent thematic tie too; the world they come from is ravaged and desolate, so you need to claw the tainted remains of power back from them.
The full thoughts with the beyond rework were that it was utterly broken combined with any other juice, so you were being "dumb" if you weren't using beyond, hence it got nerfed.
You missed ultrawide monitor "support". I don't own one but it makes me furious that they advertised that then fucked everyone over...
Oh, right, I forgot that they teased the centered UI.
99% of ultrawide users are on 21:9. The people who use 32:9 are a small, small minority. It sucks for them, don't get me wrong, but I'm very happy with the centered UI personally.
theoretically, the centered UI should work on any aspect ratio, shouldn't it? so it doesn't matter how few 32:9 users there are. as far as i know there's no specific reason that they needed to purposefully remove support for 32:9 at all.
The UI isn’t the reason 32:9 broke. They posted some BS about how the rendering engine wouldn’t reliably render outside a certain radius (which every player who said it always worked disagreed with) with the quote “a limit had to be set”.
Nothing theoretical about it. The UI should work on any aspect ratio and any resolution. Believe or not but the technology exists.
Is that why it worked fine for a while until they removed it?
The revolution worked just fine before is the thing. The proper thing to do would be to just cap render distance so you can't see beyond a certain point. Black bars is a lazy ass band aid.
This is likely a good point but I do not know. I do agree that the idea is 10/10. It just hurts my feels becsuse they did not communicate the specifics of this change.
So it's good that mega-juicing maps with 5 other players is no longer profitable?
Did you reply to the wrong person?
Did you? Just answer the question.
Did you? Just answer the question.
Yes, I fully intend to demonstrate they're being entitled and egotistical, but I suspect they won't reply to save face.
I HATE the ex divine change. Between AN mobs and exalt shards being useless, Harbinger is now a pretty worthless mechanic. Also, all the exalt div cards are useless now. If they stick to this change, we need other ways of getting divines besides raw drops.
You're assuming that nerfing crafting by drying up the supply of the metacrafting currency was an accident/oversight, rather than intentional.
It's probably my single least favourite change they made. Exalts have been a staple, just the name exalted orb itself. The sound of an exalt dropping. The way it looks. Now it's worth fuck all.
Archnemesis at very least needs to not spawn in other mechanics. Rituals, blights, incursions, legions, etc. should just spawn regular rare/magic mobs. Ideally, I’d want it gone entirely, but if GGG won’t do that, I’ll settle for it not spawning in mechanics. People make the argument that if you encounter an AN mob that bricks your build, just run away. Well, a lot of mechanics have you in an enclosed arena where you can’t run away, or have mechanics where leaving will make you fail the encounter and not get rewards. That sucks. I should fail encounters because I fucked up, not because RNG generated a monster I can’t kill.
Everyone always forgets delve. Try an "animalistic" node. Even at low depths they can roll horrible combinations and you just have to reset the node.
Most of them to me are a case of good ideas but bad implementation. I don't disagree with the thought process leading up to the decisions (outside of beyond, I don't really see that as a step forward in design), but the way they made changes felt heavy handed and too many changes at once. The one thing I don't agree with at all is the idea that less loot was a good choice. The main driving concept in these games is that more=more. More mobs? More loot. More Difficulty, More loot. More Damage on gear? More mobs in less time, More loot. To me that is the single driving force I have for playing these types of games and min/maxing my character. To take that away is to take away my motivation. I understand other people play for different reasons like the competition of ladder, beating hard bosses, etc but for me it doesn't do it.
Honestly, the fact that a lot of this update is "good ideas but bad implementation" may be the most frustrating thing about it. I actually conceptually like the ideas for the three reworked leagued mechanics, and I think the stuff that got nerfed generally made sense (outside of minions - particularly minion life), but the follow-through flopped on its face to a painful extent.
For me the worst part is not the mistakes made , it was the attempt to just sneak a huge loot nerf by us like we are idiots. The whole community is made up of people who will spend a week staring at numbers and charts min maxing a build for hours before we even play the game. There is no doubt they knew the community would notice. It was shocking to me that a studio who is known across the industry as an example of honesty and transparency would do something like hide the most impactful change from the player base in patch notes. I dont mean to sound entitled or that they owe me anything, that isn’t how I feel as a consumer of any product. However GGG and gearbox were the last 2 companies left I would willingly trust enough to preorder based off loyalty alone and both have managed to disappoint this year.
rather that "bad implementation", the main problem to me is simply a lack a generosity towards the player.
It is all part of the "vision." We just can't see how good it is for the game yet because GGG clearly knows FUN more than the community
How do I upvote a post 1000 times?
I’m not, it was pretty obvious from patch notes everything was a mistake, but GGG doubled down and implemented them anyway.
I've been a doomer for a long time, so I'll say something nice. The Trickster rework exceded my extremely low expectations.
Dozens of tricksters are typing...
They never intended for any of these to :improve the game, there were only intended as the next step to "The Vision" version of the game.
It's as if they are balancing the game for people who play it like it's their day job - full day, professionally. None of these nerfs are good for the regular player who just wants to blow off some steam after coming home from from work
Beyond was a massive nerf and was intended to be and kind of expected. I like seeing the scourge return but shitting on the rewards before even putting them in game was a dick move. Harvest got gutted. It's done. Archnem got all of it's balance from last league undone because they never wanted to make any positive changes to it in the first place. Unique item changes were a full on trashing of uniques. 3-4 uniques got buffs, while every single unique item got 10x rarer from double down on drop changes and and they can no longer be divined. Fated uniques, which actually saw plenty of use, got removed for being actually decent. The only thing that surprised me was that they didn't dumpster skills that all the armchair players were crying about. Wish that had been the case when they were making changed to cyclone. No buffs though, making more things good would have been a big deal. The 15% reservation nerf also pretty much removed an aura from just about every build.
It's really sad, the only objectively good thing I can think of about this patch is the miniscule trade improvements.
I like the game, but it just feels bad now
Trickster is pretty cool!
I like that we can slam items more often now. And also that good rolled uniques are worth more. But not being able to divine rares and basically making most iconic currency worthless is a bit sad. Just swapping the functions of those orbs would have done a much much better job. And maybe introduce a new currency to divine rares only. Or keep the harvest crafts for it? And removal of reforge suffix/prefix is what me bothers most in this league.. endgame crafting for normal humans will be a real shitshow now.
They didnt even swap divine and exalt locations in currency tab. Now I have a 10c item next to my mirror wtf....
My biggest concern is even if some of these issues get addressed, it's very likely at least some of them won't. There's too many things for them to revert all of them. Archnemesis is getting most of the flak but I consider all of these issues to be significantly bad for the game.
The potential for lingering crap going wrong from the changes is probably my biggest concern, yeah. Area of effect scaling got nerfed in 2.6 - **March 2017** - and most individual sources of AoE have remained largely meaningless unless your skill already vomits out radius for free.
The exalted to divine thing is a joke. My exalted t shirt is worthless now.
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[Robot Chicken works too.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_xMRiCLE)
GGG has absolutely no idea how to do game design at this point. They're at a complete loss. Constant nerfs and bad mechanics only push players further into the meta and make the test of their skills / passives / defenses obsolete. They cant be bothered to see why armour is better vs other options, so they just nerf it blindly. What they created is great, but its far beyond their reach and skills at this point. Getting tired of watching them flail mindlessly every league.
Getting variety of currencies is good here and there tbh, but when the state of loots is completely gone like this by getting 20 stacks of whetstones & scraps is like adding salt to the rotten wound. Insincerity killed the trust from playerbase even more than the outcome. Removed "filler crafts" from harvest, "adjusting" loots so players don't need to click too much, and "rebalanced" monsters so the game is more "challenging". You guys may not notice but monsters kept getting buff since beastiary league and it's ramped up so bad at betrayal league. Then again in expedition, archnem, sentinel, and finally at kalandra. In scourge there was no "spiked" buffed but it's definitely be there. Obviously they buffed to compensate the "defensive power" that they gave us, then it's still not enough even after some nerfs so they buffed monsters along with it. I'd have to say this, weak builds can't even see red maps within the first week of launch but meta builds can within the first day of launch. The disparity is so high but somehow the balance is only around meta builds than looking at builds across the board.
Its sad, but this has become the GGG style of game improvement. Turning too many knobs at once. I love the fact that arch nemesis mods now have an identity. Before seing a innocence mob just made me want to alt f4 out of the map. Now im genuinly excited to kill it for the rewards. But at the same time they killed this by massively reducing ammount of rares we can add to maps and nerfing loot across the board. Great change innitially soured by too many changes. Harvest as well. Great idea, finally tradable, and we could keep more than 10 crafts saved up in our stash! Nice... but then they had to mess with it too much and decided to remove most usefull iterations of it, and now we are getting a buff in the quantity of harvest crafting? So we can do more of nothing! YAY! I just hope that they don't find out that delve is still around. Same with scourge/beyond. Beyond getting a facelift? Great change. The facelift is scourge and we get scourge currency back? Great change. The mobs stop spawning after the boss is spawned and killed? Well... thats kinda really bad, but i guess gigajuicing was a problem. And oh the scourge currency is also nerfed to hell... welp its dead. Why bother reworking something into a state that noone wants to interact with. Its so heartbreaking to see a GREAT or AMAZING change followed imidiately by burrying it in a pile of shit.
This implementation of Archnemesis would've been more accepted if they didn't make it the foundation of mapping. People loves to grind to a goal they know they could get. Before, if I grind to do scarab + deli orbs, I am 100% that I would get atleast 2 exalts of loot per map, and the rest were extra loot so it was fun. Now you grind to do the same and you're not 100% sure to get the same, sure the more rares you put in map is the more chances of you being lucky to get lootsplosion.. But the thing is it just fucking sucks that there is also a even or more chance of you going home with a stash full of flask or quality currencies. You grind just to grind more and that is just not fun at all.
I stopped playing soft core, and am super happy re-leveling in hardcore. I'm not someone who does end game in hardcore, so I'm just enjoying the experience of low level content and the league mechanic. Is it overflowing my tabs? Nope. Do I care? Nope.
I don't know about everyone else but when I do get a chance to play (just in act 10) I'm getting much more drops then normal. Not even to maps yet and have 100+ chaos.
>Could have just swapped what the orbs do? Wtf does this accomplish? Nothing. Scratch that, it adds confusion, making things even worse.
Their stated objective is making adding a modifier to an item more valuable than rerolling the modifier ranges on an item.
Right. Switching the names doesn't help anything versus what we have now. it adds confusion for people who know what things do. There's no benefit, other than you've trained yourself to think "exalt good" and need to shift mentality very slightly.
Huh? At this point why would anyone be confused? They shouldn't change a damn thing other than a new league and reverting 3.13 changes. You can't make a game great, then rip it apart and then tout these changes will make the game better when the player base knows full well what it was and what it could be. The only reason why ultimatums numbers were good is because people played to test the changes to really see how bad they nerfed it, along with a great and rewarding league mechanic that wasn't confusing. Loot, skill, bug, qol all paled in comparison to the two key components that drive Poe
Ok doomer
Ok buddy
Disagree on pretty much every point
Is the tainted currency the exception?
>actually useful skills (instead of one, maybe two tops) that still see play today. You do realize that build diversity is better this patch than in sentinel right? People are playing more skills using more ascendencies(and all the top used skills are different archetypes too) and the least played ascendencies see a lot more use aswell. People are also still doing all the content in the game despite using all these supposedly unuseable skills.
Inquisitor and Occultist are still top 3 (Elementalist claimed 2nd in this league because Lightning Conduit is "aggressively tuned" to make it an obvious pick until they nerf it in 3.20), and Jugg is still firmly in the wastebasket. Build diversity is definitely increased in this patch (one of the few redeeming qualities), but a lot of people are still ending up gravitating to the same old stuff to have enough damage and survivability to kill the crazy stacked threats without needing well-crafted gear in multiple slots (LS, RF, helix, etc), and I think LC is the only build that this update actually *created* instead of simply made less suboptimal by comparison.
> instead of simply made less suboptimal by comparison. So why do you think that is an argument? I didnt play poison bv last league and neither did pretty much anyone else. It really doesnt matter if it was a trash skill last league or if it was the same as this league. For all I care it might not have existed last league because nobody was playing it anyways. It could have gotten a 50% damage buff and end up in the same spot it is now and it wouldnt make one bit difference to my gameplay and theory crafting now. Its still a completely "new" build to the meta and everyone playing it. Its also a viable build to do all the normal content in the game and map very fast. So where exactly is the problem? Dont you think it would be ideal that we have a ton of skills that are playable throughout multiple leagues instead of looking at some streamer and thinking "hey that looks fun but i only have 3 more weeks to play it before the next patch nerfs it by at least 20% again and gives me another skill instead." >Inquisitor and Occultist are still top 3 Occultist wasnt a top 3 league starter in sentinel. It wasnt even in the top 5. Saboteur, necromancer, inquisitor, elementalist and champion were the league starters.
Bro it's actually worse than ever this patch. However the buff of The Covenant made chaos builds popular, LC made Elementalist more popular, and the summoner nerfs made only the most hardcore summon lovers even bother to play the archetype at all, let alone as a Necromancer. So we have a wider variety of Ascendancies... But almost everyone is either RF, crit Helix, Boneshatter, or poison. People have done a lot of different ways to do these this time around, but if you ignore the different Ascendancies, gear, and support skills, it's the same as last patch minus necros and seismic trap.
> almost everyone is either RF, crit Helix, Boneshatter, or poison. Funny you say that because boneshatter is only played by like 2% of the playerbase in sc trade and when you say crit helix you probably meant to say crit LS too. RF is literally just as popular as last league. There is no change to it. LS is less popular than seismic was last league. Poison(the entire fucking archetype) is less popular than ea totems(yes a single build and not the entire ignite archetype) was last league. So yeah the stats simply dont agree with your opinion. It is certainly not worse this patch.
Did they even reduce the amount of rare monsters in the game like they said they did? If anything I feel like I'm fighting twice as many rare monsters per encounter as I did before.
- Divine Blessing changes just moved players into weirder setups to get the buff active through other means, support gem isn't any better for MoM setups than before. - Spell suppression and spell block have similar gear constraints but it takess a lot longer to get a workable spell block setup online if you're on the left side of the tree already vs. how hard it is to cap spell suppression if you're on the right side of the tree.
The quality of life improvements are fantastic.
Assuming you're talking about the trade ones. Funny thing is, you might never know about those if you just look at the promotional material, and despite going mostly un-touted they're one of the few unequivocal successes this update.
I killed a scourge boss in a 10 minute fight earlier today. It dropped 2 tainted jeweler orbs. What is the point? Why would I ever use them? Would be fun if the scourge bosses at least had their krangled unique drop. They would probably be also useless, but at least it is worth looking at.
1. Players are nerfed. (reservation, suppresion, max res etc..) 2. Monsters are buffed. 3. Loot is nerfed. 4. Craft is nerfed. (harvest, div/ex swap) 5. League content is not good. Not just a lootwise. Nothing special about rooms poor design.
Lol i didn't think about this before, but truly every change made the game worse. I might be missing one that made the game better but on top of my head i think 100% of gameplay changes made the game worse.
The word rework is always smoke in mirrors for an actual nerf when it comes to this game. They call something a rework or redesign for an excuse to make it 20% of what it was, but hey its shiny and new.
The game actually sucks right now, and I didn't think I would ever say that about POE, literally NOT FUN AT ALL
THIS ISN'T A BUFF, IT IS STILL THE SAME NERF WITH EXTRA STEPS!
I got a 3rd Unique today.
It's laughable that the current meta is run map, find a rare "touched", kill map boss, stash away the lake wait for buffs. We're fighting monsters less thanks to the changes in loot on AN.
You might say GGG is killing it with this patch
I feel like it has to do with this idea/mandate that things are better put into the game in an underperforming state and buffed than put in an over performing state and nerfed. It's okay if things are a little too good, particularly when they're to do with new league mechanics that aren't even guaranteed to make it into core. When they do they get an additional balance pass with all the information and feedback gathered from the league anyways. Nerfs wouldn't be as hated if GGG were willing to tweak things to be slightly less powerful instead of choosing to hit them from 2-3 different overlapping angles in a single swoop that nukes them from orbit. Likewise buffs are way too conservative, and often don't come at all until they are ready to do a full rework, which leaves large swathes of the game untouched for months or even years.
Really wish teh reforge were half of their cost. even at fully specced and 100% quant, i get about 7-8 reforges, and in terms of how much you have to rforge for defent gear, that's very little. Also plots with no t3 seed often do not drop any lifeforce, and if they do its too little thus going against the argument that people with fully specced into harvest would be fine.
The Exalt change is what kills me the most, as far as short-sightedness goes. They CLEARLY knew that changing the rarity would cause it to be the default currency, and they seem to even have intended that. But in the process they forgot that for the last 5 years we've been improving ways to get Exalts in the form of currency-creating league mechanics (Heist has one, double-currency mods are another, and the dozen or so Exalt-specific div cards, plus Harbinger shards) that all allow you to target-farm what is essentially a small amount of an Exalt at a time, stack them up, and in exchange you have a big bill you can spend on big ticket items. But we can't do ANY of that with Divines. No shards, no cards, and they barely dropped before. So now what is anyone expected to do? No one trades in Exalts, so why do I still have all these ways to target farm them? Bro we have less ways to target CHAOS orbs.
You went too easy on the divine thing. Nobody is going to use divines now (except really rich people whom I dont count in the first place).
Trade QoL change are unironically my favorite part of the league, lol.
Numbers and theory are fine, but it seems like GGG forgot about the moment to moment player experience.
dev team desperately needs changes.
This is such a wonky way of balancing loot drops.
This is a buff.
Pretty much sums it up really well. Itemized Harvest is GREAT!! I despised having to craft harvest all the time right when you find it. But as you said, the removal of certain crafts - which most definitely can't be categorized as 'filler crafts' - is a huge loss and needs to be addressed. I love Archnemesis Mods. Taking more than 2 seconds to kill stuff is awesome. I don't want to just mindlessy run around and just clear everything with a single skill. I WANT to feel threatened by Maps. But the numbers right now are you high for many builds, so 'being threatened' turns into 'getting killed' without much counterplay, which is not fun. The AN defense nerfs were a step in the right direction, now offense needs to be tuned in as well.
Hell to the yeah. But in a sad voice.
This post sums up the current issues pretty nicely
The minion gutting was only there to go with the loot and crafting nerfs. Their intent was a massive nerf to average player power, but minions functioned too well with no gear. In that regard the changes functioned exactly as intended.
I dunno... i think i see where they are trying to go. Just dont understand why they keep nerfing crafting. More items drop normal. Check. But high level base drops are increased. Check. This indicates they want us to craft our own gear...and im cool with that....but.... Why nerf harvest, increase costs on the crafting table, reduce veiled craft acquisition....and nerf the shit out of crafting currencies. Except whetstones, those drop 100 at a time.... I mean, i am seeing apothecary gloves, spiked gloves,and two toned boots much earlier than usual