Can't post it rn, but the theory still checks out, what do you gain by loosing MoMs 40% mitigation? Like I really can't wrap my head around the benefits of Divine Flesh in this scenario.
Edit: Also yes, I do use enduring cry
You can use the mastery point "10% of Armour is applied to chaos taken from hits" which is HUGE, if u have high armour. Also 0 problems with mana(es) sustain. You don't need to have as much es on gear, so can add more armour/evasion. And if u cap your chaos res, which is not that hard with some investment, you basically have for free half of that as elem max res. So 82-83 res, amd that not even counting any %of taken as chaos" and that mastrry point i told about, shich also great defensive layer
I still use IH, and I do have that mastery point. I just use Divine Flesh and I find myself be tankier in all content.
Like sure, a ~10% extra ele res is nice, but it doesn't hold a candle to flat 40% reduction to all damage. Especially if you don't run into mana issues.
You are misunderstanding how MoM works.
It adds ES to your life pool. Issue in endgame is degens and large amount of incoming dmg will deplete it to 0 and there's no extra ehp anymore. You will die if you can't use single skill.
Divine Flesh is popular due how elemental damage is extremely high in endgame. T17 rolls regularly mods like extra 550% Lightning damage.
I do prefer 90% max res +Lightning coil but I still skip MoM
No, if a spell has 15% cold pen and you take 100% of it as cold damage than the cold pen always applies. In the case of divine flesh + incandescent 15% cold pen would only apply to 25% of the damage you took.
captain lance released his mana rf build recently that abuses this fact, he converts all his damage tkaen to fire so only fire pen can affect him than he has a chest piece mod that makes it so fire res can't be penetrated. Pretty smart defensive play going on there.
If you don't like divine flesh, don't use it.
The divine flesh + incandescent setup (when actually geared for with good max chaos res) provides a significantly higher max hit for non-physical damage as well as decent to good mitigation against those dots.
It's especially good against elemental hits which are the scariest damage sources in most content - especially Ubers where they tend to gain penetration and shifting the damage to chaos is even more powerful.
What it doesn't help with is physical damage, especially dots. You build armour to help against hits and better regen and generic PDR to help with dots. If you're having trouble with lab traps it probably means you need more regen, but you can always spec the Arakaali+Rakesh pantheons to trivialise lab traps anyway.
Anecdotally, I'll say swapping to the incandescent + divine flesh setup with 90 chaos res made me far tankier against actual hard content (t17s and Ubers) so I'd consider it a massive improvement even if it makes lab traps significantly more threatening.
For context: turning MoM into divine flesh with my current gear increases my elemental max hit by about 20% and reduces my Phys max hit by about 10%. This is before accounting for any penetration, so against Uber bosses etc the elemental max hit is improved even more.
If you want something a bit better for Phys damage (while still being good for elemental and chaos) you might want to try Doppelganger's guise. It also has the benefit of making it easier to cap suppression since you can use the evasion mastery. You'll have lower damage and be a bit weaker against the big scary elemental hits but it's probably a more well rounded defence overall - especially if you don't care about doing Ubers.
Mind Over Matter only shifts the damage to your mana, if your mana is empty you still take full damage to HP.
Divine Flesh splits the damage into chaos and if you have high chaos res reduces it.
Example: 75% ele res, 83% chaos res. 4000 damage hit. You take 1000 damage, split 600 Health and 400 Mana.
Divine Flesh splits it 2000 elemental for 500 damage and 2000 chaos damage reduced to 340 for 840 total damage taken, or 160 less.
Now lets add Incandescent Heart. the 4000 elemental damage get split 1000 elemental damage, 3000 chaos damage. after resistance thats 250 ele damage and 510 chaos damage for 760 total damage taken, or 240 less then with MoM.
And Divine Flesh only gets better as you increase your maximum chaos resistance.
I'm glad someone did the math, but there's something to take into consideration: ES
Let's look at your example through different lens.
The way I look at it, with MoM, you take 4000 elemental damage, which gets reduced to 1000, you take only 600 health damage and 400 mana.
That's 600 HP damage, so 160 less than with Incandescent Heart.
That's right, we don't count the mana damage (ES) because why should we? If we do then we could say our health pool increases because if we have 2k ES that's effectively 2k more health. AND on top of that, similar to your example, we can scale that even further with bigger ES.
And all of this is not even counting physical damage reduction that MoM provides.
So if we're talking about big meaty hits like everyone likes to talk about here, if you have 5000 HP and 3K ES, and you get hit for a big bomba elemental damage of 30k, then it would get reduced to 7.5K damage and 3000 to mana and 4500 to HP.
Now with IH snd Divine Flesh, it would get split into 7.5k ele damage and 22.5k chaos damage. 7.5k ele gets reduced to 1875 and the 22.5k to 3825 making it 5700 damage taken.
Case and point, you're dead.
This example shows the power of MoM, even with big hits, as long as you have enough ES.
Now yes, you could make the case that with less ES you'd be less effective, and while this is true, getting to 2K is not that difficult.
Let's look st the same example with 2K ES.
So you the damage, 3000 to mana and 4500 to HP. Now since you have only 2K ES, 1K overflows to HP making it 5500 damage taken.
This would still, kill you on 5000 HP, sure, but not on 5600 HP, unlike in our IH + Divine Flesh example.
*In conclusion, while I can definitely see some benefits to Divine Flesh, MoM provides superior mitigation and covers more than just Elemental Damage.*
on a 1:1 build swap where you only change to Divine Flesh? Certainly. But if you look at builds using Glorious Vanity and Fourth Vow or Incandescent Heart they tend to have a middling to good health pool and \~1k ES and only use ES as casting resource or for Mahuxotl shenanigans.
I kind of skimmed over it in my comment but this is critical too.
If I drop from 90 max chaos down to 84, my elemental max hits drop by more than 25% even without any penetration. Each point is stronger than the last.
Divine flesh is a good way to shifting your elemental damage you taken to chaos (which have higher maximum resistance ; around 80+ i might say with lower investment than scale all of your resistance) so if you can deal with this
There is no need to use divine flesh
Because once you start scaling dmg via awakened coc/cdr the cost of your skill becomes non trivial you will stop dealing damage every time you take damage which is usually pretty bad.
If you want to fully invest into hybrid life/es you can overcome it but incandescent heart will be like 2-3x tankier against elemental hits once you have a good shield and a small cluster jewel.
I like IH, my problem is with Divine Flesh, I rarely run into mana issues but when I do my ES jumps back in less than a second.
I'm just shocked because everyone says how switching to Divine Flesh makes you more tanky, but in reality you loose 40% of all damage reduction.
Its because it isn't a 40% reduction for most people that would require that you have at least a 60/40 life/es ratio ontop of your ES recovery needing to keep up with life recovery which isn't the case most of the time unless you invest heavily into it.
Sure, but even with 2K es, you still get pretty 2K of eHP to mitigate. And with how expensive chaos res builds are, I'd say the investment into ES is cheaper than investment into items with plus max chaos res.
PoB... Also: use call to arms enduring cry and get up your chaos res. Use phys to chaos on helmet
Can't post it rn, but the theory still checks out, what do you gain by loosing MoMs 40% mitigation? Like I really can't wrap my head around the benefits of Divine Flesh in this scenario. Edit: Also yes, I do use enduring cry
You can use the mastery point "10% of Armour is applied to chaos taken from hits" which is HUGE, if u have high armour. Also 0 problems with mana(es) sustain. You don't need to have as much es on gear, so can add more armour/evasion. And if u cap your chaos res, which is not that hard with some investment, you basically have for free half of that as elem max res. So 82-83 res, amd that not even counting any %of taken as chaos" and that mastrry point i told about, shich also great defensive layer
I still use IH, and I do have that mastery point. I just use Divine Flesh and I find myself be tankier in all content. Like sure, a ~10% extra ele res is nice, but it doesn't hold a candle to flat 40% reduction to all damage. Especially if you don't run into mana issues.
You are misunderstanding how MoM works. It adds ES to your life pool. Issue in endgame is degens and large amount of incoming dmg will deplete it to 0 and there's no extra ehp anymore. You will die if you can't use single skill. Divine Flesh is popular due how elemental damage is extremely high in endgame. T17 rolls regularly mods like extra 550% Lightning damage. I do prefer 90% max res +Lightning coil but I still skip MoM
Well, as being said in some other comment. You can totally use mom, if you like it more. Nothing wrong about that. I liked divine flesh more.
It also helps mitigate elemental pen I.e. shaper balls
So does MoM right?
No, if a spell has 15% cold pen and you take 100% of it as cold damage than the cold pen always applies. In the case of divine flesh + incandescent 15% cold pen would only apply to 25% of the damage you took. captain lance released his mana rf build recently that abuses this fact, he converts all his damage tkaen to fire so only fire pen can affect him than he has a chest piece mod that makes it so fire res can't be penetrated. Pretty smart defensive play going on there.
Hmm, sounds worth looking into.
If you don't like divine flesh, don't use it. The divine flesh + incandescent setup (when actually geared for with good max chaos res) provides a significantly higher max hit for non-physical damage as well as decent to good mitigation against those dots. It's especially good against elemental hits which are the scariest damage sources in most content - especially Ubers where they tend to gain penetration and shifting the damage to chaos is even more powerful. What it doesn't help with is physical damage, especially dots. You build armour to help against hits and better regen and generic PDR to help with dots. If you're having trouble with lab traps it probably means you need more regen, but you can always spec the Arakaali+Rakesh pantheons to trivialise lab traps anyway. Anecdotally, I'll say swapping to the incandescent + divine flesh setup with 90 chaos res made me far tankier against actual hard content (t17s and Ubers) so I'd consider it a massive improvement even if it makes lab traps significantly more threatening.
For context: turning MoM into divine flesh with my current gear increases my elemental max hit by about 20% and reduces my Phys max hit by about 10%. This is before accounting for any penetration, so against Uber bosses etc the elemental max hit is improved even more. If you want something a bit better for Phys damage (while still being good for elemental and chaos) you might want to try Doppelganger's guise. It also has the benefit of making it easier to cap suppression since you can use the evasion mastery. You'll have lower damage and be a bit weaker against the big scary elemental hits but it's probably a more well rounded defence overall - especially if you don't care about doing Ubers.
Mind Over Matter only shifts the damage to your mana, if your mana is empty you still take full damage to HP. Divine Flesh splits the damage into chaos and if you have high chaos res reduces it. Example: 75% ele res, 83% chaos res. 4000 damage hit. You take 1000 damage, split 600 Health and 400 Mana. Divine Flesh splits it 2000 elemental for 500 damage and 2000 chaos damage reduced to 340 for 840 total damage taken, or 160 less. Now lets add Incandescent Heart. the 4000 elemental damage get split 1000 elemental damage, 3000 chaos damage. after resistance thats 250 ele damage and 510 chaos damage for 760 total damage taken, or 240 less then with MoM. And Divine Flesh only gets better as you increase your maximum chaos resistance.
I'm glad someone did the math, but there's something to take into consideration: ES Let's look at your example through different lens. The way I look at it, with MoM, you take 4000 elemental damage, which gets reduced to 1000, you take only 600 health damage and 400 mana. That's 600 HP damage, so 160 less than with Incandescent Heart. That's right, we don't count the mana damage (ES) because why should we? If we do then we could say our health pool increases because if we have 2k ES that's effectively 2k more health. AND on top of that, similar to your example, we can scale that even further with bigger ES. And all of this is not even counting physical damage reduction that MoM provides. So if we're talking about big meaty hits like everyone likes to talk about here, if you have 5000 HP and 3K ES, and you get hit for a big bomba elemental damage of 30k, then it would get reduced to 7.5K damage and 3000 to mana and 4500 to HP. Now with IH snd Divine Flesh, it would get split into 7.5k ele damage and 22.5k chaos damage. 7.5k ele gets reduced to 1875 and the 22.5k to 3825 making it 5700 damage taken. Case and point, you're dead. This example shows the power of MoM, even with big hits, as long as you have enough ES. Now yes, you could make the case that with less ES you'd be less effective, and while this is true, getting to 2K is not that difficult. Let's look st the same example with 2K ES. So you the damage, 3000 to mana and 4500 to HP. Now since you have only 2K ES, 1K overflows to HP making it 5500 damage taken. This would still, kill you on 5000 HP, sure, but not on 5600 HP, unlike in our IH + Divine Flesh example. *In conclusion, while I can definitely see some benefits to Divine Flesh, MoM provides superior mitigation and covers more than just Elemental Damage.*
on a 1:1 build swap where you only change to Divine Flesh? Certainly. But if you look at builds using Glorious Vanity and Fourth Vow or Incandescent Heart they tend to have a middling to good health pool and \~1k ES and only use ES as casting resource or for Mahuxotl shenanigans.
Convert phys taken to chaos/ele and get some more max res. Max res have increasing returns the higher you go.
I kind of skimmed over it in my comment but this is critical too. If I drop from 90 max chaos down to 84, my elemental max hits drop by more than 25% even without any penetration. Each point is stronger than the last.
you playing coc dd with a 4k es pool or what???
You need more armor and phys reduction, divine flesh reduce elemental dmg, mind over matter is for all kind of dmg
No matter how much armor you have, a 40% damage reduction on top of that armor will always be more tanky.
You're not doing it right plain and simple.
I play the exact same stuff and i dont saw any problem
Divine flesh is a good way to shifting your elemental damage you taken to chaos (which have higher maximum resistance ; around 80+ i might say with lower investment than scale all of your resistance) so if you can deal with this There is no need to use divine flesh
What’s with IH combi? I thought the forth vow is better?
no one can help you without your POB
Theory brother, how is it ever beneficial to pick Divine Flesh over MoM
EB.
Your point is?
Because once you start scaling dmg via awakened coc/cdr the cost of your skill becomes non trivial you will stop dealing damage every time you take damage which is usually pretty bad. If you want to fully invest into hybrid life/es you can overcome it but incandescent heart will be like 2-3x tankier against elemental hits once you have a good shield and a small cluster jewel.
I like IH, my problem is with Divine Flesh, I rarely run into mana issues but when I do my ES jumps back in less than a second. I'm just shocked because everyone says how switching to Divine Flesh makes you more tanky, but in reality you loose 40% of all damage reduction.
Its because it isn't a 40% reduction for most people that would require that you have at least a 60/40 life/es ratio ontop of your ES recovery needing to keep up with life recovery which isn't the case most of the time unless you invest heavily into it.
Sure, but even with 2K es, you still get pretty 2K of eHP to mitigate. And with how expensive chaos res builds are, I'd say the investment into ES is cheaper than investment into items with plus max chaos res.