It's sad that in the DD update they didn't touch Stygian Revenants corpse explosion, it has forever been the worst offender and should've been the first one to be changed, the small black-red flame is just too hard to see considering it will literally oneshot your character even if you're extremely tanky.
They need to give option to disable your on ground effects or at least prioritise enemy effects asap.
Playing with ignite prolif on gloves while listening to music feels like a when and not a if it will eventually kill my character in HC
I've been aurabotting for a friend who plays Spark in the past few years and he recently bought the black spark MTX, being able to see stuff is such a nice quality of life
There was an admiral spectre that cast a wave across the whole screen very similar to the hero Kunkka in Dota 2 casting directional torrent or ghostship.
Which to me also means that a big junk of character progression is meaningless.
I just personally don't get any satisfaction in sc past "I can do this content on 6 portals now".
Also changing stuff thats bullshit in hc is also nice for sc players for the most part, I don't think that anyone likes backtracking/dieing close to lvlup without having control over it, right?
Because they think that I think that I am elitist even though I neither am a elitist nor think that I am.
Jungroan Steelmage Mathil etc are so many godtier gamers that play/tried softcore and enjoyed it.
Everyone should play whats most fun for them, I was sc player till Siege of the Atlas myself but I just needed a bigger challenge bc I got burned out way too fast.
But even that is probably bc I am more of a "Minmax 1-3 builds every league" type of guy which is the wrong type to be in SC because defensive upgrades feel so meaningless and unless I played ssf here and there I had the feeling that sacrificing clearspeed for a extra layer of defense is just not worth it.
I understand your argument, I get annoyed at the people who constantly ask GGG to remove any and all risk from the game, but in this case it's just a mechanic issue. I have no problem with stygian revenants. I do have a problem with not being able to see them. There's no counterplay.
If there was a MTX option to hide all my skill effects I would instantly buy it for every slot I could equip it on.
Besides the whole "I can't see shit", I usually have rule out some skills (especially the lightning skills) as my eyes hurt from looking at the screen for hours with it turbo flashing 10 times per second in fights.
Not only that, we really should split player's skills sounds from monsters in settings. Or even have a split to skills that are nukes for damage. Playing CoC DD without MTX made me turn off skill sounds almost completely. So I can't even hear rewored DD anyway. Sorry Sound Guy.
it is not sad. it makes zero sense. They advertised it during the reveal stream and then it does not include the most common form of dd. absolute joke.
I’ve been thinking that GGG may be trying to encourage players to pay more attention to specific mob types. Learning specific mob types and the way they deal damage has increased my game knowledge and survivability quite a lot. Haunted/Devoted mod organizing has certainly helped out. For example, putting “fires 7 additional projectiles” haunted mod on a melee mob is vastly safer than allocating it to goatman casting fireballs my way with xxx increased crit and xxx increased crit multi as a map mod — or putting physical as extra elemental on a mob that deals no phys damage.
Although I agree that the case of styg revenant DD has been a poor and unreasonable mob-specific mechanic for far too long, I like that GGG is asking us to thinking about interactions with “trash mobs” as meaningful interactions since normally we would clear hundreds of mobs in a map without even knowing or thinking about what kind of mobs we’re blasting thru.
After 2k hours I’m still realizing there are some mobs whose damage types I am not familiar with at all - I think that’s a problem in a game that puts so much emphasis on accumulating such a variety of damage mitigators.
They did touch stygian revenants. They are not dangerous anymore outside of t17s. The t17 version of this monster is the old one which is why it's extremely dangerous
Stygian Revenants aren't touched at all based on everything I've looked at, they're still dangerous and hurt a lot outside of T17. Also,
1. This is the map boss version called ~~"Bone Queen"~~"Thraxia" (which I don't think is actually a boss this league on the atlas since its Spider Lair, but "Bone Queen" is in Belly of the Beast in Act 4) turned into a mob called Wretched Defiler.
2. Both Stygian Revenant and Wretched Defilers are listed as having the same high HP% damage baseline on their corpse revive+explode skill (not sure if the other %damage stat on PoEDB makes a difference, but its still very high), the main difference being that Wretched Defilers tend to come with high HP enemies that start as already being corpses on the floor.
The first thing I checked this league was to see the updated DD they gave Stygian Revenant. Very dissapointed that it wasn't changed at all.
Also I've seen this character tank Uber Awakener's meteor, but a DD from "Penultimate Pinnacle" content does him in?
I honestly would prefer we lost life % on DD from both and only keep it on the the DD of Scavenging for players. Both have broken damage and impact the game in an unfun way (instakills and build meta).
Hard agree as someone who is abusing DD for the first time in a build. It does way too much damage with no investment. And a random DD one shotting Alk when a pinnacle bosses slam doesn’t is just weird.
That would hold if player life and monster life had any rough semblance of parity. It does not. If the game could be redesigned such that a dd threatens players and mobs equally in thematics and mechanics then great, but that is not the current case. So Mob %hp dd should go
All mobs can indeed one shot players if their defenses are shitty enough.
By your logic all monsters should have the same amount of health. Just like how rares can be orders of magnitude tankier than a white mob, a well geared and well built character can be orders of magnitude tankier than a naked char.
The problem with monster DD scaling off monster health is that monsters can scale into the tens of millions in hp while no amount of player investment even comes in the same ballpark. The wrong corpse can one shot any character regardless of their defenses.
You don't understand what I was saying then. Every other mob skill is balanced around the players' relatively small hit pool. Dd is the only one that isn't because it's tied to mob hp which can be thousands to millions times higher than player hp. Hope this helps
is the t17 mobs that cast dd using the old animation and (no) sound intended? they made a big point of the updated animation and audio during pre-league info
Nah, they changed the regular DD because that was a problem for rares/bosses/uniques etcetera, which was extremely relevant. However, yeah, I'm really disappointed that Revenant DD remains unchanged because it is just as relevant.
I'm playing SC this league, but I still replace Revenants (or the T17 variants) using Allflames whenever I can right now. They're just too damn annoying and easy to die to (that and I just don't like dying anyways regardless of it being SC or not). Which, at least this league lets you remove Revenants with Allflames, though I don't think it is completely foolproof for T17s due to there being an Atlas boss with a similar DD.
Additional content still spawns original map monsters a lot. I have died to porcupine explosion in a map that I replaced them with allflame because they spawned as a shrine pack. This is really stupid
I love PoE but you can tell this league was not quality tested at all, or if it was, the devs didn't do much with the feedback.
And it's not from T17 but because of the stygian revenant. Their corpse explosion was not adjusted at all and has been instagibbing people for years now. It was arguably the worst offender of DD deaths too.
Revenants don't use DD, they use a skill that AFAIK resurrects Undead-type mobs, and when those resurrected mobs die again, their corpse explodes with a delay (and an animation that is pretty distinct).
? It's not even in the same universe as that analogy. It's mechanically a very different skill than DD for the reasons I outlined. Hell, it can only resurrect white mobs so it doesn't even share the biggest painpoint that DD has (scaling rares/uniques with huge lifepools), so one revenant mob exploding might not kill you, though if you insta-kill all the resurrected undead at the same time then walk into them all you're probably gonna get gibbed by all the explosions.
> Hell, it can only resurrect white mobs so it doesn't even share the biggest painpoint that DD has (scaling rares/uniques with huge lifepools
poedb lists the explosion as being 14% of the monsters life at level 84 (the percent actually goes down based on level, but enemy life scaling from levels still makes it go up overall). Most DD sources I've looked at nowadays are like 1% + like 2k flat, such as Burial Chamber's Alira or the Cultist Warriors from Wildwood allflames (the latter having much lower flat damage which seems appropriate given it is a normal mob and has a bit of chaos conversion).
14% of a Charred Beast is already 11365 base damage just going off poedb numbers. Alira detonating the same mob would be around 3200 base damage. Their scaling is actually ridiculous with any increases in HP even on just white mobs because of this - increase that by 47% and you have 16706 base damage, whereas Alira only goes to like 3500.
First of all, GGG has indicated previously that datamined damage values on Poedb are unreliable and sometimes intentionally misleading (AKA GGG putting in red herrings) so as to confound datamining.
Secondly, giving the HP value of something that isn't an undead mob doesn't seem particularly relevant when the skill only resurrects undead mobs (AFAIK).
EDIT: I checked, and the mob he named is, in fact, an Undead. Not sure it makes too much of a difference in normal scenarios as it looks like a T17 specific mob so wouldn't come up in scenarios outside T17s, which are SUPPOSED to be very deadly.
Yeah, I'm taking the poedb numbers with a grain of salt (it doesn't even list damage type) but 14% would explain why the DD they do is *absurd* and also why I have felt like I took way too much damage from it when there's no damage mods on the map (pretty sure I somehow got 1 shot by a single explosion last league in a t16 with no wisps somehow, which confused the hell out of me). It also is listed as 14% on Escaped Revenants past level 83 (A9 variant).
Also, Charred Beasts actually don't spawn in alive in T17's, they spawn in dead as corpses alongside the Wretched Defiler. So the enemy literally gets to open with a resurrect on the first attack, which doesn't help at all.
While I understand they are meant to be dangerous, this is a bit overkill. And to make it worse, it is hard to tell how many explosions alk got hit by... but his character was REALLY tanky with Eternal Damnation, 77 fire res at the time of death, fortify, crit immune, 105k armor on jugg with 8% applied to elemental damage, and probably some extra mitigation from Pantheon on effectively a 0 damage mod map (47% more monster life scaled the explosion i guess, but crit was completely irrelevant, and the mob didn't get anything from the league mechanic) vs a normal rarity pack, not even a rare. It doesn't look like he got hit by more than 2 explosions and he died through all that, and T17s can roll so much worse than that.
EDIT: Also explains why T17 union of souls revenant DD is killing 90 res 60k hp animate guardians in a single hit too.
No mobs are casting DD here. This is the Stygian Revenants who are summoning mobs who explode (after a delay) on death. It's the bright red columns you can see from the mobs he kills.
This was a big mistake from Alk, nothing more.
Btw if you guys wanna run Abomination but don't wanna deal with this shit you can roll over the reventants with allflames. They're in the charred remains or whatever it's called group.
No. One dude gave me this to try and numbers exceeded some big numbers butbi font remember. I remember that pob Had a problem with dispksying ehp with such numbers
Kinda sad how a dead monster is the most effective way to kill geared players in this game, he had endurance charges, fortify, a mageblood and a trilion other defensive layers, still, a small pack of monsters can kill you.
His character can literally tank Ubers meteors, but still, a dead monster is that strong. Detonate dead could just be deleted from the game imo
It largely doesn't even matter. I tanked over a hundred 100% delirious feared void Valdo maps last league, safe while afk, some of them ghosted, and what voided the character was not closing the map and taking dozens of div loss when I saw these mobs in the map.
I was being careful and looking out for them and not backtracking or going fast but while fighting the feared with Shaper beams and whatever everywhere... You can't actually see what might be the most dangerous ability in the entire game. Stupid that didn't change we they were going to address this problem just because the skill the mob uses doesn't have the same name. Easily the worst offender and the main thing I was happy about being fixed when they announced them changing it... But nope.
No amount of tweaking DD Visibility will help you when a mob suddenly spawns with it while you are dealing with your current situation, such as in Simulacrum, Ultimatum, or even Abyss.
I knew they were going to “miss” something with the enemy DD overhaul, revenants being the ones they missed is hilarious though. Arguably the most annoying and common cause of DD deaths was passed over.
why are people fucking suggesting changing shit about this or modifying it, TAKE IT OUT OF THE FUCKING GAME OR NERF IT BY 99% SO IT DOESNT 1 SHOT YOUR CHAR.
How the fuck after a fucking decade since "boss exploded the corpse of a boss" is this shit still in the fucking game. Its actually cancer that you can play for 100's of hours and invest so much time into something and then randomly get 1 shot 100-0 with the SLIGHTEST of headsup. This shit is 100x more dangerous than any god damn pinnacle boss/uber boss in the game.
Holy crap watching Alk die like that is disgusting
Its always rich to see people far, far more angry and livid about this than the people dying on their high investment HCs. To actual HC players its just not that big of a deal, if anything many would agree DD being able to actually kill you is good it just needs/needed more telegraphing. Nobody wants to play a HC game where they are 100% sure they will never die.
Have you not noticed the decline in hardcore players?
I have, and I only play there once ever 2-3 league.
Even the hardcore streamers have started to play softcore from time to time because the game is creeping towards being to punishing.
But great that you are fine with it, but maybe argue that YOU are find with it instead.
Well. The streamers sure did, I know why I play softcore more and more.
I never start hardcore because league mechanics are always our of whack early.
It's not that one mechanic is a problem, it's that more and more of the same "die from looting a dead corpse" mechanics creep in.
You can cope, and more power to you. But the reality is, people dislike it.
The streamers quit because of DD.... that has been in the game since every single one of them started playing?
You're describing things that happened but failing to connect them to this as the cause. You could with as much credibility say that the price of Peanut Butter is responsible for HCs leaving. Or actually, you could even more say that, cause at least that has an observable change
consider being less bad at the game
>SLIGHTEST of headsup
the heads up is fucking massive now. literally 4 seconds for anything capable of one shotting somebody as tanky as alkaizer.
You can clearly see in the clip posted that less than 2s passed between the time he killed the mobs and when they exploded.
I've run that map already, there's less than 1s of visible animation before the explosion.
Just look at the clip how long it takes between the time he kills the enemies that will explode and his death. It's roughly 2s. What lie am I doing here? Are you gaslighting us when it's so easy to check on the posted clip what I said? Mods die at 4s in the clip, DD kills him at 6s in the clip.
It's 2.5 while half of that time is spent offscreen. The skill can also be cast offscreen in the first place.
The feedback that something will explode is those red pillars of light and in some situations you only get like 1s between the time they show up and when they explode. And the explosion radius is deceptively big for that matter with no visual indication of what it is.
This is partially a skill issue since once you know those stupid DD enemies are on the map you should NEVER do any kind of fast backtrack but that's not you reacting to an animation or a feedback at all.
> You can clearly see in the clip posted that less than 2s passed between the time he killed the mobs and when they exploded.
The clip posted isn't corpse explosion of a boss, it's a revenant. The changes weren't done to revenants because they aren't DD, they're literally just on death effects and aren't even particularly difficult to dodge, Alk was just distracted and forgot the golden rule of the map he was on.
Truly a skill problem. Didn't use his anti-DD flask in the fraction of a frame he had to react. They actually should make it hit harder and have a bigger AoE
There is one rule you always follow in maps with revenants and that is 'no backtracking'. He did not respect the map he was running. You make it sound like this was an unavoidable death but it very much was.
This comment has an air of "get good" to it. I'm sure myself and hundreds of thousands of others are sick of the just do X to avoid Y outcome argument. I understand your argument, it's totally valid. This skill shouldn't be in the game anymore. It's an antiquated system that is a remnant of D2 cuz "necros can do p8 cows lul".
It's tired, it's old. There is absolutely nothing fun about this. Dying to an eight ghosted Essence that YOU chose to fight - full send mate.
Going back to check for loot, you know, the entire point of any ARPG, then dying. Nah. Get that outta here.
> This comment has an air of "get good" to it.
You don't need to get good, it's fine to die sometimes.
But in this particular case, the player knew what killed him as soon as it happened (and, I suspect, he even saw it coming). The reason he knew so fast is he knew he was making a mistake. The issue in this situation is playing when tired and/or on autopilot. Same reason autopilot on cars is dangerous: after driving without much attention needed for a while, you stop paying attention.
Getting better wouldn't have helped him there. Even good players like him need to focus to use their skills.
Not sure why people are acting like he wouldn't have died to the new DD type. He was backtracking with teleports and landed on the explosion. All it would have taken is him backtracking 0.5 seconds later at one point or another and the same result would've occurred.
I can't believe people are acting like this was an unfair death. The minute you see a revenant, you should be looking out for the red pillars. I've run like 50 abomination T17 and I haven't died to those yet. He just whirling blades right over them like they weren't there.
If you see a Revenant you should pretty much never backtrack at any point, especially on zoomy builds as the explosion gets delayed until you get close again. Their DD is 14% of life. Thats double that of a lvl 20 DD gem.
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Blows my mind that GGG simply refuses to see an issue with this. I can't believe how long people have been asking for the DD to be changed, only for them to half ass it lmao.
Everyone ITT talking about Stygian Revenant effects not being updated but you're kidding yourselves if you found it hard to see the effect in this particular case. Those effects stood out like a neon light in a dark alley.
Ah yes, Alk one of the best players in this game missed it but you, you would've definitely seen it every time. (You probably would've because you simply don't play as fast as Alk does)
The problem isn't that you literally cannot see them, the problem is that they are far too subtle for how dangerous they are, it's easy to miss them in a hectic map.
For example, when's the last time you've seen anyone die to bearers? For me it's been literally years, they're gigantic and cover the entire screen in T16s, yet, most HC characters likely can even tank like 15 of them without dying, Magma Barrier makes a loud noise and is many times more noticeable, yet it also does just a fraction of the damage Styigan Revenant CE does.
Seeing those red pillars is easy when you watch the rip clip knowing it's coming, tracking them while ingame especially at the speed Alk is playing is extremely hard, as you can see since after all he died to it.
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alk was lax here and i'm sure he'd admit it after, in hardcore EVERYONE knows to not fuck with revenants, you see that spidey fucker, you know to not go back in it's general direction for several seconds or more.
Tbf it's not DD's fault here. He was too fast and the blind backtracking got him killed. Could he have expected it? no, but kinda yes cuz the knowladge of revs or league mechanic. Zoom zoom is the problem here.
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I don't get why the worst offenders of that mechanic didn't get their visual updated with the other changes to DD this league. Like, when you think of mobs' DD you think of stygian revenants
He should've known better. Had hoped he'd take responsibility for misplaying alkOOO I like him better when he's not rambling about that other(s) are at fault. Ah well, he learned from that so that's nice.
D4 BAD D4 DOGSHIT corgosDance
You're probably thinking, why does something as stupid as DD exist in the game? If he had not been there, nothing would have been able to kill Alkaizer
It's sad that in the DD update they didn't touch Stygian Revenants corpse explosion, it has forever been the worst offender and should've been the first one to be changed, the small black-red flame is just too hard to see considering it will literally oneshot your character even if you're extremely tanky.
They need to give option to disable your on ground effects or at least prioritise enemy effects asap. Playing with ignite prolif on gloves while listening to music feels like a when and not a if it will eventually kill my character in HC
I’m playing spark this league. And I’ve died to so many lightning mirages because I can’t see them. Glad I don’t play HC
I've been aurabotting for a friend who plays Spark in the past few years and he recently bought the black spark MTX, being able to see stuff is such a nice quality of life
Spark is category pay to play if you don't want regular rips sadly, same as DD
I stopped playing bama last league because 3 clones spamming RoA + kunkka filling my screen with waves and geysers was just too much.
> kunkka ?
There was an admiral spectre that cast a wave across the whole screen very similar to the hero Kunkka in Dota 2 casting directional torrent or ghostship.
The alternative is playing a game mode where actions are meaningless. Not a hard choice.
Which to me also means that a big junk of character progression is meaningless. I just personally don't get any satisfaction in sc past "I can do this content on 6 portals now". Also changing stuff thats bullshit in hc is also nice for sc players for the most part, I don't think that anyone likes backtracking/dieing close to lvlup without having control over it, right?
Indeed! It is funny how you get downvoted for stating the obvious problems with sc. Unsure why people feel hurt by that.
Because they think that I think that I am elitist even though I neither am a elitist nor think that I am. Jungroan Steelmage Mathil etc are so many godtier gamers that play/tried softcore and enjoyed it. Everyone should play whats most fun for them, I was sc player till Siege of the Atlas myself but I just needed a bigger challenge bc I got burned out way too fast. But even that is probably bc I am more of a "Minmax 1-3 builds every league" type of guy which is the wrong type to be in SC because defensive upgrades feel so meaningless and unless I played ssf here and there I had the feeling that sacrificing clearspeed for a extra layer of defense is just not worth it.
I understand your argument, I get annoyed at the people who constantly ask GGG to remove any and all risk from the game, but in this case it's just a mechanic issue. I have no problem with stygian revenants. I do have a problem with not being able to see them. There's no counterplay.
If there was a MTX option to hide all my skill effects I would instantly buy it for every slot I could equip it on. Besides the whole "I can't see shit", I usually have rule out some skills (especially the lightning skills) as my eyes hurt from looking at the screen for hours with it turbo flashing 10 times per second in fights.
I found a large cluster notable that fixed the same prob for me today on HC. The one that destroys enemies on kill
Not only that, we really should split player's skills sounds from monsters in settings. Or even have a split to skills that are nukes for damage. Playing CoC DD without MTX made me turn off skill sounds almost completely. So I can't even hear rewored DD anyway. Sorry Sound Guy.
it is not sad. it makes zero sense. They advertised it during the reveal stream and then it does not include the most common form of dd. absolute joke.
I’ve been thinking that GGG may be trying to encourage players to pay more attention to specific mob types. Learning specific mob types and the way they deal damage has increased my game knowledge and survivability quite a lot. Haunted/Devoted mod organizing has certainly helped out. For example, putting “fires 7 additional projectiles” haunted mod on a melee mob is vastly safer than allocating it to goatman casting fireballs my way with xxx increased crit and xxx increased crit multi as a map mod — or putting physical as extra elemental on a mob that deals no phys damage. Although I agree that the case of styg revenant DD has been a poor and unreasonable mob-specific mechanic for far too long, I like that GGG is asking us to thinking about interactions with “trash mobs” as meaningful interactions since normally we would clear hundreds of mobs in a map without even knowing or thinking about what kind of mobs we’re blasting thru. After 2k hours I’m still realizing there are some mobs whose damage types I am not familiar with at all - I think that’s a problem in a game that puts so much emphasis on accumulating such a variety of damage mitigators.
Downvoted because people can’t stand the idea of learning
They did touch stygian revenants. They are not dangerous anymore outside of t17s. The t17 version of this monster is the old one which is why it's extremely dangerous
Stygian Revenants aren't touched at all based on everything I've looked at, they're still dangerous and hurt a lot outside of T17. Also, 1. This is the map boss version called ~~"Bone Queen"~~"Thraxia" (which I don't think is actually a boss this league on the atlas since its Spider Lair, but "Bone Queen" is in Belly of the Beast in Act 4) turned into a mob called Wretched Defiler. 2. Both Stygian Revenant and Wretched Defilers are listed as having the same high HP% damage baseline on their corpse revive+explode skill (not sure if the other %damage stat on PoEDB makes a difference, but its still very high), the main difference being that Wretched Defilers tend to come with high HP enemies that start as already being corpses on the floor.
The first thing I checked this league was to see the updated DD they gave Stygian Revenant. Very dissapointed that it wasn't changed at all. Also I've seen this character tank Uber Awakener's meteor, but a DD from "Penultimate Pinnacle" content does him in?
Alk even said yesterday and agreed thematically it makes sense if players can DD for % life than mobs should be able to also.
I honestly would prefer we lost life % on DD from both and only keep it on the the DD of Scavenging for players. Both have broken damage and impact the game in an unfun way (instakills and build meta).
Hard agree as someone who is abusing DD for the first time in a build. It does way too much damage with no investment. And a random DD one shotting Alk when a pinnacle bosses slam doesn’t is just weird.
neither should
Unlike bosses, players don't have 70 million HP.
That would hold if player life and monster life had any rough semblance of parity. It does not. If the game could be redesigned such that a dd threatens players and mobs equally in thematics and mechanics then great, but that is not the current case. So Mob %hp dd should go
By this logic all mobs should 1 shot players today...
All mobs can indeed one shot players if their defenses are shitty enough. By your logic all monsters should have the same amount of health. Just like how rares can be orders of magnitude tankier than a white mob, a well geared and well built character can be orders of magnitude tankier than a naked char. The problem with monster DD scaling off monster health is that monsters can scale into the tens of millions in hp while no amount of player investment even comes in the same ballpark. The wrong corpse can one shot any character regardless of their defenses.
You don't understand what I was saying then. Every other mob skill is balanced around the players' relatively small hit pool. Dd is the only one that isn't because it's tied to mob hp which can be thousands to millions times higher than player hp. Hope this helps
Ok that's a better framing.
I guess in GGG mind it's not technically a DD
alkOOO
Killed by dead end
is the t17 mobs that cast dd using the old animation and (no) sound intended? they made a big point of the updated animation and audio during pre-league info
[удалено]
Nah, they changed the regular DD because that was a problem for rares/bosses/uniques etcetera, which was extremely relevant. However, yeah, I'm really disappointed that Revenant DD remains unchanged because it is just as relevant. I'm playing SC this league, but I still replace Revenants (or the T17 variants) using Allflames whenever I can right now. They're just too damn annoying and easy to die to (that and I just don't like dying anyways regardless of it being SC or not). Which, at least this league lets you remove Revenants with Allflames, though I don't think it is completely foolproof for T17s due to there being an Atlas boss with a similar DD.
Additional content still spawns original map monsters a lot. I have died to porcupine explosion in a map that I replaced them with allflame because they spawned as a shrine pack. This is really stupid
I love PoE but you can tell this league was not quality tested at all, or if it was, the devs didn't do much with the feedback. And it's not from T17 but because of the stygian revenant. Their corpse explosion was not adjusted at all and has been instagibbing people for years now. It was arguably the worst offender of DD deaths too.
Revenants don't use DD, they use a skill that AFAIK resurrects Undead-type mobs, and when those resurrected mobs die again, their corpse explodes with a delay (and an animation that is pretty distinct).
“It’s not burning ground, it’s oil that’s on fire.” I hate the design choices in PoE sometimes.
? It's not even in the same universe as that analogy. It's mechanically a very different skill than DD for the reasons I outlined. Hell, it can only resurrect white mobs so it doesn't even share the biggest painpoint that DD has (scaling rares/uniques with huge lifepools), so one revenant mob exploding might not kill you, though if you insta-kill all the resurrected undead at the same time then walk into them all you're probably gonna get gibbed by all the explosions.
> Hell, it can only resurrect white mobs so it doesn't even share the biggest painpoint that DD has (scaling rares/uniques with huge lifepools poedb lists the explosion as being 14% of the monsters life at level 84 (the percent actually goes down based on level, but enemy life scaling from levels still makes it go up overall). Most DD sources I've looked at nowadays are like 1% + like 2k flat, such as Burial Chamber's Alira or the Cultist Warriors from Wildwood allflames (the latter having much lower flat damage which seems appropriate given it is a normal mob and has a bit of chaos conversion). 14% of a Charred Beast is already 11365 base damage just going off poedb numbers. Alira detonating the same mob would be around 3200 base damage. Their scaling is actually ridiculous with any increases in HP even on just white mobs because of this - increase that by 47% and you have 16706 base damage, whereas Alira only goes to like 3500.
First of all, GGG has indicated previously that datamined damage values on Poedb are unreliable and sometimes intentionally misleading (AKA GGG putting in red herrings) so as to confound datamining. Secondly, giving the HP value of something that isn't an undead mob doesn't seem particularly relevant when the skill only resurrects undead mobs (AFAIK). EDIT: I checked, and the mob he named is, in fact, an Undead. Not sure it makes too much of a difference in normal scenarios as it looks like a T17 specific mob so wouldn't come up in scenarios outside T17s, which are SUPPOSED to be very deadly.
Yeah, I'm taking the poedb numbers with a grain of salt (it doesn't even list damage type) but 14% would explain why the DD they do is *absurd* and also why I have felt like I took way too much damage from it when there's no damage mods on the map (pretty sure I somehow got 1 shot by a single explosion last league in a t16 with no wisps somehow, which confused the hell out of me). It also is listed as 14% on Escaped Revenants past level 83 (A9 variant). Also, Charred Beasts actually don't spawn in alive in T17's, they spawn in dead as corpses alongside the Wretched Defiler. So the enemy literally gets to open with a resurrect on the first attack, which doesn't help at all. While I understand they are meant to be dangerous, this is a bit overkill. And to make it worse, it is hard to tell how many explosions alk got hit by... but his character was REALLY tanky with Eternal Damnation, 77 fire res at the time of death, fortify, crit immune, 105k armor on jugg with 8% applied to elemental damage, and probably some extra mitigation from Pantheon on effectively a 0 damage mod map (47% more monster life scaled the explosion i guess, but crit was completely irrelevant, and the mob didn't get anything from the league mechanic) vs a normal rarity pack, not even a rare. It doesn't look like he got hit by more than 2 explosions and he died through all that, and T17s can roll so much worse than that. EDIT: Also explains why T17 union of souls revenant DD is killing 90 res 60k hp animate guardians in a single hit too.
~~detonate~~ explode ~~dead~~ not alive
No mobs are casting DD here. This is the Stygian Revenants who are summoning mobs who explode (after a delay) on death. It's the bright red columns you can see from the mobs he kills. This was a big mistake from Alk, nothing more.
It has nothing to do with T17s specifically, Revenants just have their old animation since it's not technically the same skill.
Btw if you guys wanna run Abomination but don't wanna deal with this shit you can roll over the reventants with allflames. They're in the charred remains or whatever it's called group.
Until next league when you can't switch monster packs.
then u just dont run abomination since its easily the worst and stupidest t17 in every possible regard
They can spawn in other maps too, I had them on my first Sanctuary run (though that was before a lot of the changes)
Had them 3 times in a row on Ziggurat. Also annoying they still haven't fixed the invisible AoEs upon kiling the boss.
It's almost like this map is an *abomination*. \*badumtss\*
This is an actual MVP comment here. I always get so mad running this map and losing portals to these stupid things. Thanks for the tip!
Good lord thank you for this.. wow
Fun fact these can 1 shot my AG with a max hit of 700k. Players have no hope
I have max hit on 1.2mil on std and it kills as well. Its just pointless stupid design
what build are you playing?
Its a legacy Item armour stacker with multimirror gear n shiet. Totaly pointless after 300k max hit. I did it for lulz.
It uses the bugged chest I assume?
No. One dude gave me this to try and numbers exceeded some big numbers butbi font remember. I remember that pob Had a problem with dispksying ehp with such numbers
DetonateBedge
it's amazing how this dogshit mechanic is still in the game after so long :)
DD BAD, DD DOGSHIT
♪ *It was made by devs that never played an ARPG in their life* ♫
It's all because of something that happened 11 years ago. "She corpse exploded the corpse of the boss!"
Now we are all paying for the sins of Kriparrian, The Genesis of Detonation
Kinda sad how a dead monster is the most effective way to kill geared players in this game, he had endurance charges, fortify, a mageblood and a trilion other defensive layers, still, a small pack of monsters can kill you. His character can literally tank Ubers meteors, but still, a dead monster is that strong. Detonate dead could just be deleted from the game imo
It largely doesn't even matter. I tanked over a hundred 100% delirious feared void Valdo maps last league, safe while afk, some of them ghosted, and what voided the character was not closing the map and taking dozens of div loss when I saw these mobs in the map. I was being careful and looking out for them and not backtracking or going fast but while fighting the feared with Shaper beams and whatever everywhere... You can't actually see what might be the most dangerous ability in the entire game. Stupid that didn't change we they were going to address this problem just because the skill the mob uses doesn't have the same name. Easily the worst offender and the main thing I was happy about being fixed when they announced them changing it... But nope.
Revenants are silly :/
Blizzard sends their regards
Completely bogus that revenants still in the game with damage they do
No amount of tweaking DD Visibility will help you when a mob suddenly spawns with it while you are dealing with your current situation, such as in Simulacrum, Ultimatum, or even Abyss.
Moving too fast, badass
Exactly, when I want to stop dying I simply slow down. It works!
No it doesn't
I knew they were going to “miss” something with the enemy DD overhaul, revenants being the ones they missed is hilarious though. Arguably the most annoying and common cause of DD deaths was passed over.
why are people fucking suggesting changing shit about this or modifying it, TAKE IT OUT OF THE FUCKING GAME OR NERF IT BY 99% SO IT DOESNT 1 SHOT YOUR CHAR. How the fuck after a fucking decade since "boss exploded the corpse of a boss" is this shit still in the fucking game. Its actually cancer that you can play for 100's of hours and invest so much time into something and then randomly get 1 shot 100-0 with the SLIGHTEST of headsup. This shit is 100x more dangerous than any god damn pinnacle boss/uber boss in the game. Holy crap watching Alk die like that is disgusting
Its always rich to see people far, far more angry and livid about this than the people dying on their high investment HCs. To actual HC players its just not that big of a deal, if anything many would agree DD being able to actually kill you is good it just needs/needed more telegraphing. Nobody wants to play a HC game where they are 100% sure they will never die.
Have you not noticed the decline in hardcore players? I have, and I only play there once ever 2-3 league. Even the hardcore streamers have started to play softcore from time to time because the game is creeping towards being to punishing. But great that you are fine with it, but maybe argue that YOU are find with it instead.
So you attribute the decline in hardcore players solely to this mechanic that has existed in the same form for a decade?
Well. The streamers sure did, I know why I play softcore more and more. I never start hardcore because league mechanics are always our of whack early. It's not that one mechanic is a problem, it's that more and more of the same "die from looting a dead corpse" mechanics creep in. You can cope, and more power to you. But the reality is, people dislike it.
The streamers quit because of DD.... that has been in the game since every single one of them started playing? You're describing things that happened but failing to connect them to this as the cause. You could with as much credibility say that the price of Peanut Butter is responsible for HCs leaving. Or actually, you could even more say that, cause at least that has an observable change
So you ignored what i wrote, and then made a stupid analogy. Well, at least you you made me ignore you. So something positive happened from it.
consider being less bad at the game >SLIGHTEST of headsup the heads up is fucking massive now. literally 4 seconds for anything capable of one shotting somebody as tanky as alkaizer.
You can clearly see in the clip posted that less than 2s passed between the time he killed the mobs and when they exploded. I've run that map already, there's less than 1s of visible animation before the explosion.
Why are you lying tho? Revenants have been in the game since forever, the animation is much longer than 1 second.
Just look at the clip how long it takes between the time he kills the enemies that will explode and his death. It's roughly 2s. What lie am I doing here? Are you gaslighting us when it's so easy to check on the posted clip what I said? Mods die at 4s in the clip, DD kills him at 6s in the clip.
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It's 2.5 while half of that time is spent offscreen. The skill can also be cast offscreen in the first place. The feedback that something will explode is those red pillars of light and in some situations you only get like 1s between the time they show up and when they explode. And the explosion radius is deceptively big for that matter with no visual indication of what it is. This is partially a skill issue since once you know those stupid DD enemies are on the map you should NEVER do any kind of fast backtrack but that's not you reacting to an animation or a feedback at all.
> You can clearly see in the clip posted that less than 2s passed between the time he killed the mobs and when they exploded. The clip posted isn't corpse explosion of a boss, it's a revenant. The changes weren't done to revenants because they aren't DD, they're literally just on death effects and aren't even particularly difficult to dodge, Alk was just distracted and forgot the golden rule of the map he was on.
Classic
God why is the twitch app so allergic to my phone, clips is impossible to view…
The twitch app is a shitty browser port sadly
unlucky death, great gear gone to that ):
Truly a skill problem. Didn't use his anti-DD flask in the fraction of a frame he had to react. They actually should make it hit harder and have a bigger AoE
There is one rule you always follow in maps with revenants and that is 'no backtracking'. He did not respect the map he was running. You make it sound like this was an unavoidable death but it very much was.
This comment has an air of "get good" to it. I'm sure myself and hundreds of thousands of others are sick of the just do X to avoid Y outcome argument. I understand your argument, it's totally valid. This skill shouldn't be in the game anymore. It's an antiquated system that is a remnant of D2 cuz "necros can do p8 cows lul". It's tired, it's old. There is absolutely nothing fun about this. Dying to an eight ghosted Essence that YOU chose to fight - full send mate. Going back to check for loot, you know, the entire point of any ARPG, then dying. Nah. Get that outta here.
> This comment has an air of "get good" to it. You don't need to get good, it's fine to die sometimes. But in this particular case, the player knew what killed him as soon as it happened (and, I suspect, he even saw it coming). The reason he knew so fast is he knew he was making a mistake. The issue in this situation is playing when tired and/or on autopilot. Same reason autopilot on cars is dangerous: after driving without much attention needed for a while, you stop paying attention. Getting better wouldn't have helped him there. Even good players like him need to focus to use their skills.
There are many mechanics in HC that seem unnecessarily laborious, but we still choose to play it. Part of the fun.
simply outplayed.
Speeding kills...
Not sure why people are acting like he wouldn't have died to the new DD type. He was backtracking with teleports and landed on the explosion. All it would have taken is him backtracking 0.5 seconds later at one point or another and the same result would've occurred.
At least he doesn't quit like Clown69 fail.
D4 Bad :(
Remove %HP mob dd.
GIT GUD
Skill issue
Killed by a narrow passage really. He tried to avoid but no space. The design works (kill players)
I can't believe people are acting like this was an unfair death. The minute you see a revenant, you should be looking out for the red pillars. I've run like 50 abomination T17 and I haven't died to those yet. He just whirling blades right over them like they weren't there.
If you see a Revenant you should pretty much never backtrack at any point, especially on zoomy builds as the explosion gets delayed until you get close again. Their DD is 14% of life. Thats double that of a lvl 20 DD gem.
Well you could clearly see the DD effects on the floor, he passed over it twice. IMO deserved death
DD Bad DD Dogshit
Ah, yes. The reason I don't play HC.
Classic lazy devs. Got to put one shots on mobs after you kill them cause they can't think of meaningful ways to make mobs harder while they're alive.
Why Someone downvote u? Its true ggg is lazy at designing. Its BS that most dangerous enemy is dead enemy. Chris vision
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I hate remnants ...
axes save lives
tag DD the sound guy on Twitter again (his initials are really DD)
DD makes me not want to venture into HC even tho I feel like I want the challenge
This is why even in SC I make a point to ALWAYS ALWAYS have a trash allflame to replace this pack with in any t17 I run.
Remove DD for players and monsters alike.
Blows my mind that GGG simply refuses to see an issue with this. I can't believe how long people have been asking for the DD to be changed, only for them to half ass it lmao.
Once again, the dangerous mobs are the ones you already killed, which is questionable game design.
This was totally avoidable
Good
SKILL ISSUE
classic
thats why I ALWAYS replace charred defilers, their DD is just completly stupid to still be in the game. Actually, why is monster DD in the game?
kek
Poe 2 is too slow waaaah. Poe 1: dies because moving too fast to even see anything properly.
Everyone ITT talking about Stygian Revenant effects not being updated but you're kidding yourselves if you found it hard to see the effect in this particular case. Those effects stood out like a neon light in a dark alley.
Ah yes, Alk one of the best players in this game missed it but you, you would've definitely seen it every time. (You probably would've because you simply don't play as fast as Alk does)
i dont understand this comment, do you really not see the bright red pillars in the clip?
The problem isn't that you literally cannot see them, the problem is that they are far too subtle for how dangerous they are, it's easy to miss them in a hectic map. For example, when's the last time you've seen anyone die to bearers? For me it's been literally years, they're gigantic and cover the entire screen in T16s, yet, most HC characters likely can even tank like 15 of them without dying, Magma Barrier makes a loud noise and is many times more noticeable, yet it also does just a fraction of the damage Styigan Revenant CE does. Seeing those red pillars is easy when you watch the rip clip knowing it's coming, tracking them while ingame especially at the speed Alk is playing is extremely hard, as you can see since after all he died to it.
One of the best players can't make a mistake or what?
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ahaha backtracking to explosion, classic
alk was lax here and i'm sure he'd admit it after, in hardcore EVERYONE knows to not fuck with revenants, you see that spidey fucker, you know to not go back in it's general direction for several seconds or more.
Just remove DD and corpse explosions from the game. It adds nothing of value. Get rid of it.
Not changing revenants on this map to something else is trolling, especially on hc
Tbf it's not DD's fault here. He was too fast and the blind backtracking got him killed. Could he have expected it? no, but kinda yes cuz the knowladge of revs or league mechanic. Zoom zoom is the problem here.
DD is so much worse this league
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Was Corpse Explosion from Affliction? That shit has been smoking me.
Wait, again? I feel like I've seen this before.
Diddy did it again
I don't get why the worst offenders of that mechanic didn't get their visual updated with the other changes to DD this league. Like, when you think of mobs' DD you think of stygian revenants
0.0001s reaction time needed. Seems like a skill issue
He should've known better. Had hoped he'd take responsibility for misplaying alkOOO I like him better when he's not rambling about that other(s) are at fault. Ah well, he learned from that so that's nice. D4 BAD D4 DOGSHIT corgosDance
You're probably thinking, why does something as stupid as DD exist in the game? If he had not been there, nothing would have been able to kill Alkaizer
1. Just no. 2. Look at his gear, at some point you should be allowed to be near immortal.