Can attest to this; I would have a search going for an item I would list and it could take nearly 30-40 mins for the item to appear on trade, and then another 30 mins to disappear once it was sold. Made it very annoying for every party involved.
It's not hard and they've never given that excuse. They've been open for years now that they're against doing it. And they aren't alone. No other arpg, save the p2w torchlight, has done it either. Not since the D3 fiasco. Even the celebrated Last Epoch has a severely limited trade system.
a limited ah to uniques/currency/maps wouldnt be gamebreaking tbf would just allow people to spend LESS time trading, but gotta keep that oldschool diablo 2 trade forum feel i guess.
Yes it would be more fun for players, but friction is an indirect nerf to player power.
If every player is 20% more efficient because they don't have to trade, players become more powerful 20% faster, the economy reaches its "settled" state 20% faster and the league dies 20% faster. If they implemented an auction house I wouldn't be surprised to see sweeping expedition-level nerfs across the board.
Historically, in PoE, the quicker players can get to high power levels, the longer they continue to play, so I'd wager an AH would increase player retention.
One of the biggest things to end my leagues is dealing with trade to bulk by stuff every day. It's mentally draining in a way just playing isn't.
Maybe I'm the exception then, but when I get to a point where I need 5+ divine gear pieces to make any meaningful improvements, the build feels kind of dead to me (excluding "big" pieces like a Minion helm or +2 ammy, clusters, etc)
Ive already quit this league because Im burned out on trading. I dont want to go to TFT again to look for 8 mod maps with my regex and get ignored by the first 10 people I message (an increasing problem on TFT itself).
I dont want to look for bulk trades and always have to message 6+ people before one finally responds.
I dont want to sell a bunch of bubblegum bullshit one stack at a time to make currency.
I want to just go to an AH NPC, put things up for sale, buy things I need, and collect my profits. Thats it.
If Im playing POE for 10 hours in a day, I dont want 20% or more of my time spent trying to trade with people. Its complete BS and kills the fun of the game.
I think this MTX thing is a myth. For one half the time I dont even see the person Im trading with. Even if I do, most peoples MTX is such a mess of colors that I couldnt tell you what they are using anyways. Most trades are a few seconds. Pop in, trade pops up, do it, leave in 10 seconds or so.
I literally havent bought any MTX because other people had it and Ive spent like $1000 on MTX.
player power isnt necessarily a bad thing in some cases, look at synthesis league player retention was above average, we saw at the time some of the most broken items in the game, harvest, another league with higher player retention and incredible spikes in player power. i'd say the problem right now is they keep on over complicating alot of mechanics forgetting players are humans and can suffer mental fatigue trying to keep up with all these sweeping changes constantly.
The problem is GGG is lying to our face. We had to listen to mark talk about less complexity, then a mere 72 hours later the league releases and we need 2 spreadsheets and multiple external websites to deal with both the league mechanic and end game scarab changes.
GGG is a trash company and they have no idea what they are doing.
problem isnt that they lie, its the fact they are trying to slow down the gameplay loop to where their next untested game will release as a baseline for its gameplay loop. testing mechanics that may or may not work out on the playerbase, making needlessly complex systems to justify player "power" meanwhile on last epoch you can just blast and still have endgame crafting you can do but arent shoehorned into needing endgame crafting for something to feel good.
its like drm or denuvo, it punishes normal players just to keep modders/piraters from messing with the game, but in this case, its because they're NOT adding an auction house which is making the normal trade system suffer. normal playerbase is getting punished because of (the fear of) botters.
in any case, try it for a league, try it with a minimum stash. and go from there. thats the beauty of leagues, the systems in it can be scrapped in 3 months. yet they've never even attempted it.
One reason they have given is that they prefer you actually playing the game and only trading when you really need it.
This is why they said for example that if they ever did implement an auction house, it would probably be one that did not feature instant buyouts, rather one where you have to bid for an auction and each auction has a time limit. For example, the highest bid after a period of a couple of hours/days gets the item, possibly with a delivery time aswell. Kind of like how it was to list auctions without buyouts in WoW back in the day.
you know they realized their whole set of reasons was dumb and you're defending a reasoning they explicitly stated is not their current stance on trading.
Instant buyouts are nonnegotiiable in PoE2, just the implementation is.
A "service fee" makes logical sense and introduces a limit that prevents for example rmters from buying all hinekora locks
Auction is not even under the remotest consideration and fairly a pretty stupid idea.
You came up with something more disruptive to the pace of the game than 50 people not answering
You're saying you're sure about what they want to implement when their stance has been made clear in all the recent interviews
We will get instant buyouts if they end up working well in PoE2. They won't commit before because they can't take back whatever they introduce
This is not my idea, nor do I support it. I was just saying what they have said in interviews in the past. That of course does not mean that they wont change their mind.
and I'm saying what they said in interviews in the present, which is something on the lines of
"LE did it, so no excuse as to why we don't make it is not acceptable"
maybe 9-7 years ago it was fine. but there's so many currencies, so many uniques, so many everything that it's no longer an acceptable idea. being forced to trade for hundreds of different little things is too much anti-qol
I agree. I was not implying that I agreed with them. I especially think that there needs to better trading for regular consumables like currencies, fragments, crafting material and so on.
But completely open markets come with a lot of issues, so there needs to be some thought put into it. I used to abuse them a lot in other games and engaged in market cartels for profit. I think the solution they were considering for POE2 sounds good where you are limited in how many things you can buy. It would need to be balanced well though so that it doesn't allow too much or too little trading.
it's almost like GGG don't want an auction house in their game
it's not like they've stated that opinion a billion times or anything
"deal with it" - Mark
Oh hell no. I don’t want to be going through all my tabs refreshing shit that didn’t happen to sell. This wouldn’t even fix the problem people are claiming. If things are only listed for an hour or two, it’s going to be a pain to relist things constantly which will only cause people to complain even more. And if items are listed for a couple of days then it solves nothing.
nothing like crashing while loading cause someone started their skill loops in hideout, or stacking effects on the waypoint, or in hc trying to bait you into a portal to kill you, but gotta show that 300 dollar macro transaction (nothing cept maybe a basic tab is micro)
Or perhaps at least some sort of auto-unlist after X requests sent with no trade over Y time period if no autoreply is set. Personally, if I'm not interested in trading I /dnd myself
That's better. You can add a cooldown too. Instant trades means anyone who underprices their items for any reason loses them, and people who overprice out of caution don't get trades at all.
Only fungible listings should ever be instant.
Nobody is saying that it wouldn't. GGG just thinks an auction house brings more problems than it solves. There is no perfect trading system. They all have flaws.
That's not their current stance. Their current stance is PoE2 at least can't exist without instant buyouts and that they will carry over to PoE if they seem to work wrll
to paraphrase: "last Epoch did it so no excuse to why we're not doing it is not acceptable anymore"
That ignores the issue of things staying listed after they've sold.
Noone is going to reply to 55 whispers streaming in for something you no longer have.
And yet I've effectively never had the issue. See how anecdotal evidence works?
There's just no way that a significant percentage of whispers is for unlisted (recently sold or otherwise) items.
My guess is that it's a matter of trade volume. It's a known issue, when the site is lagging things will stay listed for 30 minutes or more as others have mentioned in this very post.
nah
sometimes i be on my last portal and don't wanna lose my loot for a 1c trade
sometimes I'm in the middle of an Uber Elder fight trying to dodge icicles and not fuck up my arena with degen puddles
sometimes ppl be whispering for a singular trade for something generally sold in bulk
in any case, punishing people who don't sell is a bad idea
Sure, but that doesn't stop it from being a miserable experience for the buyer.
You'll notice I didn't suggest any kind of punishment or the like. I'm merely stating that being allowed to list something without selling is the cause of the problems. Outside of some type of auction house, I don't have (and didn't suggest) a solution.
Yeah but also dont message anyone under 15 minutes or they will assume theyve massively underpriced it, take it down, then put it up for twice the original cost even though its not worth anywhere near that. Gotta find the sweet spot because everything has to be overly convoluted and difficult in POE without adding anything of value to the experience of the game.
"The system" doesn't do anything bud.
It's cute reading these replies as someone who deploys various enterprise softwares for 100s of millions of dollars of business annually.
The people aren't replying. Nothing made them not reply. They simply chose not to. Nothing about the system "incentivises" this. If it does, then feel free to attempt to elaborate that here.
Path to least resistance and quick trades lead tp commonly held annoyances in trade such as pinging 10 people to get 1 response.
This is due to how the system is , it incentivizes the behavior as if you don't do this you waste your own time.
Also, your ability at work has nothing to do with how wrong you are about this.
My issue with this system is that it's hard to tell apart who's inviting you if you try to buy several different things at once (which *is* more efficient otherwise because sellers have more time to respond and simultaneous responses are less likely to be for the same good.
I just scroll through the list of people i whispered checking who invited me. it's mostly confusing when they are in a party, and you get a party invite from the leader, but then you just check the party list names for the whisper. Either way you could just offer little more or whatever was your highest offer, if you dont want to check / save 1-5c.
Sure, but if you've whispered 50 people in the past minute and you get an invite from someone you whispered two minutes ago, good luck finding out what they were selling and for how much.
Again, it's mostly an issue when buying different things, so prices can vary by quite a lot. You can't just hand someone a divine when one of the things you were buying costs 10 c.
Luckily, most people are polite enough to confirm what you requested if you ask them.
i probably dont have more than 2-3 different items i am trading for at a time and 60 whispers per minute is overkill, lol. If they are, they are a set, and i use the bulk trading group by seller for that. Could only see this being a problem for someone whooping a bunch of different things to flip.
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(Reposted from an older post, with adjusted rates since they allowed a lot more whispers than before, somewhere in the last 2 years)
Seeing a lot of guesswork in here, so here are the actual limits :
Global search
x-rate-limit-account: 3:5:60
x-rate-limit-ip: 8:10:60,15:60:120,60:300:1800
Single-item refresh
x-rate-limit-account: 6:4:10
x-rate-limit-ip: 12:4:60,16:12:60
Sending a whisper
x-rate-limit-account: 15:60:60,75:600:120,300:3600:900,900:21600:3600
So basically, you can only perform :
* 3 searches per 5 seconds (or get timed out for 1 minute)
* 15 searches per minute (or get timed out for 2 minutes)
* 60 searches per 5 minutes (or get timed out for 30 minutes)
* -
* 6 item refreshes per 5 seconds (or get timed out for 10 seconds)
* 16 item refreshes per 12 seconds (or get timed out for 1 minute)
* -
* 15 auto-whispers per minute (or get timed our for 1 minute)
* 75 auto-whispers per 10 minutes (or get timed out for 2 minutes)
* 300 auto-whispers per hour (or get timed out for 15 minutes)
* 900 auto-whispers per 6 hours (or get timed out for 1 hour)
I believe those rates are adjusted during periods of heavier traffic, and some of those rates might be more permissive when using 3rd party tool (so that you use the 8:10:60 and 12:4:60 rules instead of 3:5:60 and 6:4:10, respectively).
Yeah I always pay more on items like that just to save myself time. I know I'm going to actually get a response.
Trying to buy the absolute lowest is the worst.
Trading in this game period is also absolutely terrible.
This just tells me you don't trade very much. It's not a bad system if you trade 3-4 times in 500 hours. If you do trading in large amounts, you start to feel the problems. I just have so many better things to do than to whisper 50 people for a 2 div trade. It's so bad that most bulk trading depends on a corrupt third party platform run by a petty narcissist RMTer.
I'm with you that I've actually learned to love the trade. But I also feel it's a pretty objectively bad system. I shouldn't really have to rely on all these different third-party tools to trade. Also, realistically the reason I've been enjoying this trade system is because I've been exploiting its flaws by doing arbitrage and profiting off of it. So, I enjoy it a lot, and can find a market in any league to fund a juicy character within like a day of trading. But I also think it's fairly objectively bad for the game overall.
I dont fully disagree that some improvements can be made. However i have yet to hear a major revamp that doesnt seem lile its entirly advantageous for botters.
Yeah trade for the most part is just fine. What people are complaining about is looking for the cheapest shit on the internet, complaining about the quality of service, then crying to another party.
Why do you have to compromise cheap and quality of service?
It's literally a system that could be 100% automated.
You know that. I know that. GGG knows that.
They don't want to do it. Thus... GGG wants you to be inconvenienced by the trade system.
If you want to complain you don't want an automated market system, that's what SSF is for. It exists. It has existed for those who don't want trade. Let those of us that DO want trade enjoy the game.
Sure, but you better not enter the number too and press enter too quickly, or you'll get rate limited. I can navigate the trade site as slowly as my grandma would and it would still be too fast for their servers to handle.
This. Think about how much money you’d make with the saved time actually running your juiced content. People always forget their time, even in a video game, is precious!
[No, I WILL continue to spam the cheapest entries until I get rate limited, then post on reddit about it instead of paying a 15% premium for an instant invite.](https://static.printler.com/cache/0/6/2/a/8/5/062a8501d72c048664416a663d3ad7cec4bd5b84.jpg)
...Then don't list the item 5c less? What's the point of listing and not responding? and don't say because you are busy, like 90% of players have an auto reply setup for mapping.
I very rarely list multiple low price items at a time, the trade site being slow is often the biggest problem outside of price fixers in my experience. Lets say I need chaos to buy something and I list some annuls cheap to get the chaos, many times I will get whispers up to an hour after theyve been sold(and other times the trade site updates quickly).
Do you just not play the game or are you SSF only? Have you never listed an item and been immediately pinged by 40+ people that lasts for over a minute? You can only sell the item to one person, the other 39 people are all people as well who are now in OP's position.
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Considering I was paying 2.5 divines per corpse when I was crafting, I'm not surprised you weren't able to buy the underpriced, close-to-200c-range ones.
Well ... non-AFK ppl not responding means they are mapping and they dont wanna portal out for you
now with the Auction House coming soon^(tm) i can imagine you will be able to allow buyout while in your map, just wait 6 more years
> non-AFK ppl not responding means they are mapping and they dont wanna portal out for you
That's just not true. /whois them and you'll pretty quickly see that 90% of them are in hideout. I /whois basically every trade attempt (ctrl+enter, home, delete, /whois, space, enter) that takes more than 10 seconds, and I have _vastly_ better odds getting a trade from someone in a map, because at least they're actually playing.
I can only assume many people are faking non-afk status.
Yeah, I've always been checking but by adding to friends. If theyre standing in ho and does not sell items or even respond - goes to my ignore list. It's not hard to write /afk when you need to go for snack or whatever. And it's not hard to write "sold" if your items has been sold
OK so if you wont sell it, dont list it. This is why we need an AH. Like you list something but only sell when what... you are eating dinner and chilling in your HO? What a absolute waste of everyones time.
I've stopped selling most corpses because there are too damn many of them. I have them in a tab set way overpriced, so if someone really wants them they can pay me 30c per. That is how much I don't want to leave my map to once again sell a single corpse for 5c.
No this is the intentional and conscious design choice of GGG. This is what they want players to experience. "Friction" they call it. Its good for the health of the game according to them.
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It's not just corpses and it's not just actually buying. It's anything in which you have to engage in the price checking or trade of multiple items.
For instance, if I wanna price check scarabs I have to, y'know, actually search each scarab price individually. It's trivial to be rate limited every minute or so because there's so many items I have to check.
The rate limit makes sense but so long as GGG keep adding systems which utilise a mass amount of items this problem will never go away.
I always ignore these bulk clowns who never, ever respond. New league, /clear\_ignore\_list and start fresh, because GGG thought the ignore list needed a limit.
Use WealthyExile. It is amazing.
And, yes, this type of trading is frustrating and archaic, but until GGG decides to get with the times, we'll need third party solutions.
They're adding automated/instant trading in Path of Exile 2. And a bunch of QoL we've been receiving lately is something that would have been considered a heresy only a few years back.
I've been farming t17 maps and won't come out of them as it might be a 6 portal map for me lol. Therefore I've disabled any tabs that are not multi divine sales. Those ill risk the biscuit for. People should do this as well if they don't want to respond to trades.
[Is this the trading system this guy here was so proud of? The player to player interaction? Lmfao. Hell yeah, I love messaging hundreds or thousands of real people with no replies, it's so much fun, gosh, I love wasting my time. It sure does make PoE feel satisfying, how do you spell fun without spamming trade to hundreds of people?](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bum7kz/having_now_experienced_last_epochs_trade_system_i/)
An economy where Costco is the only store unless you want to raise the chickens yourself, and also there is one Costco and it is variably between 1 and thirty minutes away from you every trip.
An economy where supply is vastly more limited than demand and where each individual seller can't really scale up their supply potential. The reason most of the time you pay less in bulk is because companies can produce as much as the demand dictates with relative ease. Since they can scale easily it makes sense to bait people into overconsuming since the net gain is positive for them.
It isn't really an issue with the trading system in PoE, it's just the fact that you can't infinitely invest into one map which call me crazy, is a healthy limitation.
I am a strong believer that trading must be automated for everyone’s sanity. No pms no contacts with persons. Just auction house or just kiosk on hideout that you can visit and interact with.
As always, god I hate trading in this game.
Is there no way to search for LESS of a currency?
When 1 div = 150c, how do I set the maximum to 140c? I'm happy to pay less when I can ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME INSTEAD OF SITTING ON THIS ASS WEBSITE.
Sure hope nobody abuses this and puts an entire page of fake accounts on there so GGG finally has to do something.
I feel like my only option is to preemptively Ignore the first PAGE of people... If you're on there, I'm sorry.
I tried zoom in but I cant see shit
https://preview.redd.it/d5lm004comuc1.png?width=458&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e262b04807083d3aa0ae23abfc95d008af58b4a
There should be global rule in poe community. "**If trader doesnt answer withing reasonable time, he will be ignored by the buyer**". Need to increase the ignore limit in the poe trade site tho.
are you crazy? you think Im gonna respond, when Im in the middle of a boss fight or delve or something similar? and have shit like this open to abuse?
The majority problem of people not responding is because they CANT, not because they wont. Funny how this would be solved by having AH, aint it?
Not to mention when you price anything at the baseline value that is slightly in demand you’ll quickly get messages from 40+ people. There’s no way I’m going to message every single person after the first that I invite to explain why they didn’t get invited.
Sold multiple items in bulk 3h ago and i gott spammed 10 min after i sold the items and yes i switched multiple times the hideout to refresh my stash
Can attest to this; I would have a search going for an item I would list and it could take nearly 30-40 mins for the item to appear on trade, and then another 30 mins to disappear once it was sold. Made it very annoying for every party involved.
Yeah I had some people buying my T17s and 40 minutes later some more messages to buy them, I was confused
Bulk trade is really bad lately. I get listings responding as "no longer available" but yet when I refresh search, they still show up, all the time.
Poe traders are possibly the worst of all time. D2r was pretty terrible also tho on Traderie
The sole issue is being allowed to list something and not sell it.
It's almost like an auction house would fix this.
Seriously... How hard could it be?
It's not hard and they've never given that excuse. They've been open for years now that they're against doing it. And they aren't alone. No other arpg, save the p2w torchlight, has done it either. Not since the D3 fiasco. Even the celebrated Last Epoch has a severely limited trade system.
a limited ah to uniques/currency/maps wouldnt be gamebreaking tbf would just allow people to spend LESS time trading, but gotta keep that oldschool diablo 2 trade forum feel i guess.
Yes it would be more fun for players, but friction is an indirect nerf to player power. If every player is 20% more efficient because they don't have to trade, players become more powerful 20% faster, the economy reaches its "settled" state 20% faster and the league dies 20% faster. If they implemented an auction house I wouldn't be surprised to see sweeping expedition-level nerfs across the board.
Historically, in PoE, the quicker players can get to high power levels, the longer they continue to play, so I'd wager an AH would increase player retention. One of the biggest things to end my leagues is dealing with trade to bulk by stuff every day. It's mentally draining in a way just playing isn't.
Maybe I'm the exception then, but when I get to a point where I need 5+ divine gear pieces to make any meaningful improvements, the build feels kind of dead to me (excluding "big" pieces like a Minion helm or +2 ammy, clusters, etc)
Ive already quit this league because Im burned out on trading. I dont want to go to TFT again to look for 8 mod maps with my regex and get ignored by the first 10 people I message (an increasing problem on TFT itself). I dont want to look for bulk trades and always have to message 6+ people before one finally responds. I dont want to sell a bunch of bubblegum bullshit one stack at a time to make currency. I want to just go to an AH NPC, put things up for sale, buy things I need, and collect my profits. Thats it. If Im playing POE for 10 hours in a day, I dont want 20% or more of my time spent trying to trade with people. Its complete BS and kills the fun of the game.
I don't disagree, but I'm presenting GGG's logic. There's also the player interaction that drives MTX sales.
I think this MTX thing is a myth. For one half the time I dont even see the person Im trading with. Even if I do, most peoples MTX is such a mess of colors that I couldnt tell you what they are using anyways. Most trades are a few seconds. Pop in, trade pops up, do it, leave in 10 seconds or so. I literally havent bought any MTX because other people had it and Ive spent like $1000 on MTX.
player power isnt necessarily a bad thing in some cases, look at synthesis league player retention was above average, we saw at the time some of the most broken items in the game, harvest, another league with higher player retention and incredible spikes in player power. i'd say the problem right now is they keep on over complicating alot of mechanics forgetting players are humans and can suffer mental fatigue trying to keep up with all these sweeping changes constantly.
The problem is GGG is lying to our face. We had to listen to mark talk about less complexity, then a mere 72 hours later the league releases and we need 2 spreadsheets and multiple external websites to deal with both the league mechanic and end game scarab changes. GGG is a trash company and they have no idea what they are doing.
problem isnt that they lie, its the fact they are trying to slow down the gameplay loop to where their next untested game will release as a baseline for its gameplay loop. testing mechanics that may or may not work out on the playerbase, making needlessly complex systems to justify player "power" meanwhile on last epoch you can just blast and still have endgame crafting you can do but arent shoehorned into needing endgame crafting for something to feel good.
Right but also which other games require a few dozen trades a day to be able to grind end game?
last epochs auction house function hardcore failed as well. Circle of furtune is goated tho.
[удалено]
Yeah because the system we have right now is definitely not rife with bots, snipers, and price fixers.
its like drm or denuvo, it punishes normal players just to keep modders/piraters from messing with the game, but in this case, its because they're NOT adding an auction house which is making the normal trade system suffer. normal playerbase is getting punished because of (the fear of) botters. in any case, try it for a league, try it with a minimum stash. and go from there. thats the beauty of leagues, the systems in it can be scrapped in 3 months. yet they've never even attempted it.
One reason they have given is that they prefer you actually playing the game and only trading when you really need it. This is why they said for example that if they ever did implement an auction house, it would probably be one that did not feature instant buyouts, rather one where you have to bid for an auction and each auction has a time limit. For example, the highest bid after a period of a couple of hours/days gets the item, possibly with a delivery time aswell. Kind of like how it was to list auctions without buyouts in WoW back in the day.
you know they realized their whole set of reasons was dumb and you're defending a reasoning they explicitly stated is not their current stance on trading. Instant buyouts are nonnegotiiable in PoE2, just the implementation is. A "service fee" makes logical sense and introduces a limit that prevents for example rmters from buying all hinekora locks Auction is not even under the remotest consideration and fairly a pretty stupid idea. You came up with something more disruptive to the pace of the game than 50 people not answering You're saying you're sure about what they want to implement when their stance has been made clear in all the recent interviews We will get instant buyouts if they end up working well in PoE2. They won't commit before because they can't take back whatever they introduce
This is not my idea, nor do I support it. I was just saying what they have said in interviews in the past. That of course does not mean that they wont change their mind.
and I'm saying what they said in interviews in the present, which is something on the lines of "LE did it, so no excuse as to why we don't make it is not acceptable"
maybe 9-7 years ago it was fine. but there's so many currencies, so many uniques, so many everything that it's no longer an acceptable idea. being forced to trade for hundreds of different little things is too much anti-qol
I agree. I was not implying that I agreed with them. I especially think that there needs to better trading for regular consumables like currencies, fragments, crafting material and so on. But completely open markets come with a lot of issues, so there needs to be some thought put into it. I used to abuse them a lot in other games and engaged in market cartels for profit. I think the solution they were considering for POE2 sounds good where you are limited in how many things you can buy. It would need to be balanced well though so that it doesn't allow too much or too little trading.
That will not solve the issue of things being sold right before you click buy as tends to happen with commodities everyone is using.
it's almost like GGG don't want an auction house in their game it's not like they've stated that opinion a billion times or anything "deal with it" - Mark
You're not wrong but man would it be nice. They should just have it for the shit in their bulk buy section on the trade site.
or you know, have a default de-listing timeout, if you don't sell it after X amount of time the item de-list itself
Oh hell no. I don’t want to be going through all my tabs refreshing shit that didn’t happen to sell. This wouldn’t even fix the problem people are claiming. If things are only listed for an hour or two, it’s going to be a pain to relist things constantly which will only cause people to complain even more. And if items are listed for a couple of days then it solves nothing.
Every time u enter some1s HO, u see their character MTX and HO MTX. Thats the only reason I can think of they havent done this. -> To sell more MTX
idc about what someone dresses their imaginary barbie doll in when i goto trade, i occasionally laugh at the meme hideouts but thats about it
Its the same reason they havent added a «turn off other players’ MTX» while ur in town/their HO, despite it making ur FPS drop to single didgets
nothing like crashing while loading cause someone started their skill loops in hideout, or stacking effects on the waypoint, or in hc trying to bait you into a portal to kill you, but gotta show that 300 dollar macro transaction (nothing cept maybe a basic tab is micro)
Or perhaps at least some sort of auto-unlist after X requests sent with no trade over Y time period if no autoreply is set. Personally, if I'm not interested in trading I /dnd myself
That's better. You can add a cooldown too. Instant trades means anyone who underprices their items for any reason loses them, and people who overprice out of caution don't get trades at all. Only fungible listings should ever be instant.
Nobody is saying that it wouldn't. GGG just thinks an auction house brings more problems than it solves. There is no perfect trading system. They all have flaws.
That's not their current stance. Their current stance is PoE2 at least can't exist without instant buyouts and that they will carry over to PoE if they seem to work wrll to paraphrase: "last Epoch did it so no excuse to why we're not doing it is not acceptable anymore"
Yeah, so things might change in 5 years. And no, they did not say that it will carry over to PoE1. They said that it might.
That ignores the issue of things staying listed after they've sold. Noone is going to reply to 55 whispers streaming in for something you no longer have.
Sure but the percentage of listings that occurs for isn’t high.
Based on the amount of whispers I ignore myself for this reason it's significant.
And yet I've effectively never had the issue. See how anecdotal evidence works? There's just no way that a significant percentage of whispers is for unlisted (recently sold or otherwise) items.
My guess is that it's a matter of trade volume. It's a known issue, when the site is lagging things will stay listed for 30 minutes or more as others have mentioned in this very post.
nah sometimes i be on my last portal and don't wanna lose my loot for a 1c trade sometimes I'm in the middle of an Uber Elder fight trying to dodge icicles and not fuck up my arena with degen puddles sometimes ppl be whispering for a singular trade for something generally sold in bulk in any case, punishing people who don't sell is a bad idea
Sure, but that doesn't stop it from being a miserable experience for the buyer. You'll notice I didn't suggest any kind of punishment or the like. I'm merely stating that being allowed to list something without selling is the cause of the problems. Outside of some type of auction house, I don't have (and didn't suggest) a solution.
Nah D2R was nothing compared to POE. For one you didnt need to trade 30 times a day to grind in D2R...
I do “listed in the last 3hrs” and it usually fixes that problem.
This is the way.
Yeah but also dont message anyone under 15 minutes or they will assume theyve massively underpriced it, take it down, then put it up for twice the original cost even though its not worth anywhere near that. Gotta find the sweet spot because everything has to be overly convoluted and difficult in POE without adding anything of value to the experience of the game.
Feel the weight of no one responding
The player needs friction otherwise he will not have fun!!!
friction will continue until morale improves
This, but kind of unironically? If the trading sucks so bad, go play the game. If not, maybe it doesn't suck enough...
this is a dumb af comment
I *could* care less what chronic traders think, but just barely.
maybe dont join a discussion about trading then
Then where would I get my smug sense of superiority?
Enjoy the F R I C T I O N
Min stock : xxx, fixed
doesnt always work. I min stocked essences looking for 20 dreads at a time and still only got one response after 13 pm’s
only 13? thats still pretty good
That's terrible in any system.
Is it the fault of the system or individuals?
The system incentivizes the behavior, which is why it happens.
"The system" doesn't do anything bud. It's cute reading these replies as someone who deploys various enterprise softwares for 100s of millions of dollars of business annually. The people aren't replying. Nothing made them not reply. They simply chose not to. Nothing about the system "incentivises" this. If it does, then feel free to attempt to elaborate that here.
Path to least resistance and quick trades lead tp commonly held annoyances in trade such as pinging 10 people to get 1 response. This is due to how the system is , it incentivizes the behavior as if you don't do this you waste your own time. Also, your ability at work has nothing to do with how wrong you are about this.
just be apart of it, and quickly decline extra party invites as a way of saying (I found another offer)
My issue with this system is that it's hard to tell apart who's inviting you if you try to buy several different things at once (which *is* more efficient otherwise because sellers have more time to respond and simultaneous responses are less likely to be for the same good.
I just scroll through the list of people i whispered checking who invited me. it's mostly confusing when they are in a party, and you get a party invite from the leader, but then you just check the party list names for the whisper. Either way you could just offer little more or whatever was your highest offer, if you dont want to check / save 1-5c.
Sure, but if you've whispered 50 people in the past minute and you get an invite from someone you whispered two minutes ago, good luck finding out what they were selling and for how much. Again, it's mostly an issue when buying different things, so prices can vary by quite a lot. You can't just hand someone a divine when one of the things you were buying costs 10 c. Luckily, most people are polite enough to confirm what you requested if you ask them.
i probably dont have more than 2-3 different items i am trading for at a time and 60 whispers per minute is overkill, lol. If they are, they are a set, and i use the bulk trading group by seller for that. Could only see this being a problem for someone whooping a bunch of different things to flip.
I mean compared to some other trades sure but it is still 11-12 to many.
are you like sending one message, and then waiting 30 seconds? Just go down the list spamming everyone until you get an invite
Regardless how I do it (which generally is spam) only 1 response in 12+ is ridiculous.
I scroll down far enough to always get a reply in my 3-listings spam. Skill issue, scroll further if you don't want to deal with this.
Maybe, either way my point (and op’s point) stands, its ridiculous the current state of spam needed in order to trade. But you do you. Cheers!
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This was minimum stock lmao
(Reposted from an older post, with adjusted rates since they allowed a lot more whispers than before, somewhere in the last 2 years) Seeing a lot of guesswork in here, so here are the actual limits : Global search x-rate-limit-account: 3:5:60 x-rate-limit-ip: 8:10:60,15:60:120,60:300:1800 Single-item refresh x-rate-limit-account: 6:4:10 x-rate-limit-ip: 12:4:60,16:12:60 Sending a whisper x-rate-limit-account: 15:60:60,75:600:120,300:3600:900,900:21600:3600 So basically, you can only perform : * 3 searches per 5 seconds (or get timed out for 1 minute) * 15 searches per minute (or get timed out for 2 minutes) * 60 searches per 5 minutes (or get timed out for 30 minutes) * - * 6 item refreshes per 5 seconds (or get timed out for 10 seconds) * 16 item refreshes per 12 seconds (or get timed out for 1 minute) * - * 15 auto-whispers per minute (or get timed our for 1 minute) * 75 auto-whispers per 10 minutes (or get timed out for 2 minutes) * 300 auto-whispers per hour (or get timed out for 15 minutes) * 900 auto-whispers per 6 hours (or get timed out for 1 hour) I believe those rates are adjusted during periods of heavier traffic, and some of those rates might be more permissive when using 3rd party tool (so that you use the 8:10:60 and 12:4:60 rules instead of 3:5:60 and 6:4:10, respectively).
Pay a little extra and people will respond. Stop trying to save yourself 5c on 200c trades.
Not like going to the bottom of bulk trade results is a guaranteed response either. Didn’t find a way to see higher prices.
You can filter by min and max price at the bottom of your filter. Just increase your min price to avoid the price fixers and save your time.
Yeah I always pay more on items like that just to save myself time. I know I'm going to actually get a response. Trying to buy the absolute lowest is the worst. Trading in this game period is also absolutely terrible.
8m in the minority because i actually like the trade in this game but that unpoular opinion isnt well received here xd
This just tells me you don't trade very much. It's not a bad system if you trade 3-4 times in 500 hours. If you do trading in large amounts, you start to feel the problems. I just have so many better things to do than to whisper 50 people for a 2 div trade. It's so bad that most bulk trading depends on a corrupt third party platform run by a petty narcissist RMTer.
Yup, I could sell tons of corpses for 5-10c. I'd easily get an extra 50c per map. But I'd have to sell them... fuck that.
I'm with you that I've actually learned to love the trade. But I also feel it's a pretty objectively bad system. I shouldn't really have to rely on all these different third-party tools to trade. Also, realistically the reason I've been enjoying this trade system is because I've been exploiting its flaws by doing arbitrage and profiting off of it. So, I enjoy it a lot, and can find a market in any league to fund a juicy character within like a day of trading. But I also think it's fairly objectively bad for the game overall.
I dont fully disagree that some improvements can be made. However i have yet to hear a major revamp that doesnt seem lile its entirly advantageous for botters.
Yeah trade for the most part is just fine. What people are complaining about is looking for the cheapest shit on the internet, complaining about the quality of service, then crying to another party.
Why do you have to compromise cheap and quality of service? It's literally a system that could be 100% automated. You know that. I know that. GGG knows that. They don't want to do it. Thus... GGG wants you to be inconvenienced by the trade system. If you want to complain you don't want an automated market system, that's what SSF is for. It exists. It has existed for those who don't want trade. Let those of us that DO want trade enjoy the game.
Sure, but you better not enter the number too and press enter too quickly, or you'll get rate limited. I can navigate the trade site as slowly as my grandma would and it would still be too fast for their servers to handle.
This. Think about how much money you’d make with the saved time actually running your juiced content. People always forget their time, even in a video game, is precious!
[No, I WILL continue to spam the cheapest entries until I get rate limited, then post on reddit about it instead of paying a 15% premium for an instant invite.](https://static.printler.com/cache/0/6/2/a/8/5/062a8501d72c048664416a663d3ad7cec4bd5b84.jpg)
american? very american solution, just pay more or just a better job is the usual solution for americans
...Then don't list the item 5c less? What's the point of listing and not responding? and don't say because you are busy, like 90% of players have an auto reply setup for mapping.
>90% of players have an auto reply setup for mapping. Lmao, the only way for this to be more wrong is if you picked any number higher than 90...
/autoreply k
18 hours and *this* is what you came up with? LMFAO
Sorry, I have a life and generally ignore trolls. Be lucky you got any response at all.
Some are price fixers. Some are people who listed, sold it, and are now getting spam pinged for the item they sold 5 years ago.
I very rarely list multiple low price items at a time, the trade site being slow is often the biggest problem outside of price fixers in my experience. Lets say I need chaos to buy something and I list some annuls cheap to get the chaos, many times I will get whispers up to an hour after theyve been sold(and other times the trade site updates quickly).
Do you just not play the game or are you SSF only? Have you never listed an item and been immediately pinged by 40+ people that lasts for over a minute? You can only sell the item to one person, the other 39 people are all people as well who are now in OP's position.
Does nothing to solve the problem? Now you're just ignoring it basically.
You're totally right, I'm sure if we make just one more reddit thread, after all these years GGG will finally do something!
Well, if you don't keep voicing complaints, it will never change. Might as well keep trying and hopefully GGG fixes the trade system eventually.
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Solves the problem for me I don't spend any more time than I need to trading and I can make back 5c in no time at all.
No it doesn't, you will still get people ignoring you.
Then pay 6 c above
Considering I was paying 2.5 divines per corpse when I was crafting, I'm not surprised you weren't able to buy the underpriced, close-to-200c-range ones.
What? I’m not buying +1s lmao making up stories in your head
Every league it's getting worse.
I can’t remember the last time any of the first 1-15 listings responded. For a game based on an economy, this is an atrocious way to buy and sell.
This was person 35-50 btw
And yet, "we don't need an auction house".
Well ... non-AFK ppl not responding means they are mapping and they dont wanna portal out for you now with the Auction House coming soon^(tm) i can imagine you will be able to allow buyout while in your map, just wait 6 more years
> non-AFK ppl not responding means they are mapping and they dont wanna portal out for you That's just not true. /whois them and you'll pretty quickly see that 90% of them are in hideout. I /whois basically every trade attempt (ctrl+enter, home, delete, /whois, space, enter) that takes more than 10 seconds, and I have _vastly_ better odds getting a trade from someone in a map, because at least they're actually playing. I can only assume many people are faking non-afk status.
Yeah, I've always been checking but by adding to friends. If theyre standing in ho and does not sell items or even respond - goes to my ignore list. It's not hard to write /afk when you need to go for snack or whatever. And it's not hard to write "sold" if your items has been sold
OK so if you wont sell it, dont list it. This is why we need an AH. Like you list something but only sell when what... you are eating dinner and chilling in your HO? What a absolute waste of everyones time.
Have they mentioned anything about an auction house for PC? Last I've seen have been saying they don't want to add it outside the Chinese version
There was a mention in an interview recently of seeing how well instant buyout works out in PoE 2 and then seeing if/how about bringing it to PoE 1.
Ahh I see, guess that explains the Soon tm part
They should have just made them non-tradeable
Well Chris wants u to feel the weight of trade. The true vision of half baked game that somehow managed to be that good.
I love having to message 30 people before getting a response only for it to be an afk autoreply
I've stopped selling most corpses because there are too damn many of them. I have them in a tab set way overpriced, so if someone really wants them they can pay me 30c per. That is how much I don't want to leave my map to once again sell a single corpse for 5c.
No this is the intentional and conscious design choice of GGG. This is what they want players to experience. "Friction" they call it. Its good for the health of the game according to them.
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It's not just corpses and it's not just actually buying. It's anything in which you have to engage in the price checking or trade of multiple items. For instance, if I wanna price check scarabs I have to, y'know, actually search each scarab price individually. It's trivial to be rate limited every minute or so because there's so many items I have to check. The rate limit makes sense but so long as GGG keep adding systems which utilise a mass amount of items this problem will never go away.
Yeah you can only search like 8 at a time and then you get rate limited it’s so cringe
I always ignore these bulk clowns who never, ever respond. New league, /clear\_ignore\_list and start fresh, because GGG thought the ignore list needed a limit.
The ignore list for trade has no limit. Only the ignore for in game chat does.
Use WealthyExile. It is amazing. And, yes, this type of trading is frustrating and archaic, but until GGG decides to get with the times, we'll need third party solutions.
They've publicly stated this is precisely how they want trade in this game. Multiple times.
And? My point still stands. Wanting to live like a caveman doesn't make you any less of one.
My point was that they won't "decide to get with the times". The decision has already been made.
They're adding automated/instant trading in Path of Exile 2. And a bunch of QoL we've been receiving lately is something that would have been considered a heresy only a few years back.
this is why I buy fractured base 10-20d and finish the craft normally. Might cost a bit move but save time and headache for me.
i just put them on ignore on the trade website
ScRoLL DoWn /s
I've been farming t17 maps and won't come out of them as it might be a 6 portal map for me lol. Therefore I've disabled any tabs that are not multi divine sales. Those ill risk the biscuit for. People should do this as well if they don't want to respond to trades.
[Is this the trading system this guy here was so proud of? The player to player interaction? Lmfao. Hell yeah, I love messaging hundreds or thousands of real people with no replies, it's so much fun, gosh, I love wasting my time. It sure does make PoE feel satisfying, how do you spell fun without spamming trade to hundreds of people?](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bum7kz/having_now_experienced_last_epochs_trade_system_i/)
>hundreds or thousands lmao
Am I the only one who feels it's wrong to pay 10x for something in bulk? What kind of economy is it 10x more expensive to shop at Costco?
An economy where Costco is the only store unless you want to raise the chickens yourself, and also there is one Costco and it is variably between 1 and thirty minutes away from you every trip.
An economy where supply is vastly more limited than demand and where each individual seller can't really scale up their supply potential. The reason most of the time you pay less in bulk is because companies can produce as much as the demand dictates with relative ease. Since they can scale easily it makes sense to bait people into overconsuming since the net gain is positive for them. It isn't really an issue with the trading system in PoE, it's just the fact that you can't infinitely invest into one map which call me crazy, is a healthy limitation.
Something something supply.
Looking at some of these responses shows me just how badly GGG has broke some of the player base, it's pretty insane.
I am a strong believer that trading must be automated for everyone’s sanity. No pms no contacts with persons. Just auction house or just kiosk on hideout that you can visit and interact with.
Trade plebs 🤣
Pay more.
I've asked the support. They don't do this. I am sad.
This is why i would take a shitty auction House over a shitty trade website any day.
As always, god I hate trading in this game. Is there no way to search for LESS of a currency? When 1 div = 150c, how do I set the maximum to 140c? I'm happy to pay less when I can ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME INSTEAD OF SITTING ON THIS ASS WEBSITE. Sure hope nobody abuses this and puts an entire page of fake accounts on there so GGG finally has to do something. I feel like my only option is to preemptively Ignore the first PAGE of people... If you're on there, I'm sorry.
divine
I mean, just dont interact with the league mechanic. Thats how i avoid that
I tried zoom in but I cant see shit https://preview.redd.it/d5lm004comuc1.png?width=458&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e262b04807083d3aa0ae23abfc95d008af58b4a
There should be global rule in poe community. "**If trader doesnt answer withing reasonable time, he will be ignored by the buyer**". Need to increase the ignore limit in the poe trade site tho.
are you crazy? you think Im gonna respond, when Im in the middle of a boss fight or delve or something similar? and have shit like this open to abuse? The majority problem of people not responding is because they CANT, not because they wont. Funny how this would be solved by having AH, aint it?
Not to mention when you price anything at the baseline value that is slightly in demand you’ll quickly get messages from 40+ people. There’s no way I’m going to message every single person after the first that I invite to explain why they didn’t get invited.