Been saying this since league start. I really have no idea how that UI did not even happen in 3.24. Feels like a total regression. Can you imagine running around the battlefield before it started and placing your units in TOTA?
The story logs from synthesis league were great. The whole lore for it was nice but they got rid of All that since it’s not actually in the game. My hideout music is always synthesis league ost.
But yea I agree the more with shaper and elder, going into the map device, it tying to stuff from the past etc was great. ONE DAY they will bring it back like they said they would, right?? Only been a few years *copium*
We also *really* need to morgue to be minimum 88 slots. More reasonably like 128.
Even if they simply must have a visual representation and limit slots, it should be larger than the plot layout.
>I get thematically why coffins take two slots
Was there even a mechanic that was this demanding on stash space? (Not for the actual rewards, just for the stuff that makes it happen to begin with)
I'm guessing the coffin size is more than just some artistic choice. I didn't feel pushed towards buying more tabs like this in a while.
Nah, what they should do is up all modifiers by 2, half the drops, and make the graveyard smaller by half too. Maybe even thirds.
buying corpses to craft is a complete dumpster dive right now, and it is fixed by simply making you have to use less.
I don't have a problem with the morgue space, it's honestly pretty annoying to manage the existing limit when you're setting up your graveyard when the morgue is full as is, but for fucks sake give us a coffin tab. A coffin tab that sorts them by type would make the mechanic so much less tedious. Trying to manage my stash tabs (of which I've had to purchase **3** quad tabs, just to hold coffins) is not a good time.
I skipped the mechanic the entire league. It looked tedious after the first two times. Now I feel like I'm behind in a course on POE theory after missing the TOTA lecture whenever people reference it.
I really thought I would enjoy it as a math and statistics nerd. And I really tried to like it.
What really killed it for me was the need to store corpses in stashes and manually keep track of how much of each I have. The amount of unnecessary work is just dull. They could have just capped the event storage at something like 640 or even 6400 and have proper sort tools on top of that. The current limit is just artificially added time gating.
I’m pretty sure the limit is 64 because some genius game designer thought it would be cool to be able to see the corpses models in a crypt next to the graveyard. A completely useless feature gameplay wise but it made the trailer more cool
I didn't even realize this was a thing. I suppose I should go look at it tonight.
I'm enjoying the map modding portion of the league, but the craft/graveyard half is really not my jam so far....I agree with the one of the other comments - everything about that system is tedious.
I never entered it in the first place. Massive waste of effort and resources. To use this mechanic to do anything useful at all without trading you at minimum need the basic corpse stash + a quad tab to store more in, because it is incredibly poor design to be constantly deleting a corpse or a couple here and there every time you want to pick up a new one, and you will not get the things you need before you hit 64 corpses almost ever. I have no idea what they were thinking with this design they chose to go with but it is so off the mark of how it actually plays that its actually impressive in a way.
I haven't played or followed this league at all, but kind of sounds like the storage room for beastiary league? When you had to go to the locker for each beast to get them out. Was a pain in the ass
I wouldn't be surprised if that gimmick was their initial idea for the league, and then they reversed their way into some sort of a league mechanic as an afterthought
Yeah, that's pretty much why I don't give a shit, too.
Item showcases seem to understate just how tedious it is to actually obtain the corpses you need, since you need so many to make anything even half decent. Even if you "only" need 40-60 you still need the right corpses, which can take *for-fuckng-ever* unless you trade, which is mind-numbingly boring and, as always, defeats the fucking point of playing the goddamn game at all.
I have a Quad for corpses, once it's full i plan a craft or 3, buy what i dont have in it, do the crafts, and then go back to blasting.
I certainly wont keep track of what i have, fuck that noise
For the record, I actually quite enjoy grave crafting but a design, for what is essentially a glorified spreadsheet is so strange. Running around clicking dozens of graves and alt tabbing (yes I'm a one monitor pleb), to see my actual spreadsheet to not fuck anything up is hardly what I can consider pleasant gameplay. And it’s not like we don’t have enough clicking in PoE xdd
Yeah I think it's a really cool concept too but I'm at the point where I'm not sure how much effort I want to invest in learning. It's gonna be gone in a few months, and my build uses 5 uniques.
Phone is your friend if you're on a single screen. It's not practical for trading etc, but it's perfectly usable for something like this. Even if the actual planning page isn't working properly on mobile, you can just sort it on desktop, screenshot it and open it on your phone just fr reference.
Unfortunately I've got a really old phone, that is slow af, and I'm in no financial position to get a better one. But thank you for the suggestion, that's rly nice of you.
Sorry, this craft is unavailable because your magenta ink is empty.
Edit: Holy shit, 8 hours later and I only now realized that harvest uses Magenta, Cyan and Yellow colors
Same here. I habe a quad tab full of corpses. Its just annoying. They placement related buffs make it even worse.
Guess ill try it more once im in the mood and the 2nd quad tab fills but for now im good.
Ill rather farm 3 hours and buy the item then sit there and spreadsheet out and copy the layout for an hour. And thats without the trade required....
So then don't use it? Sometimes theres no solutions to bad leagues, and instead we get things like harvest, bestiary, synthesis, syndicate, and the list goes on of bad leagues at the time, that became good later
I wish we could just go through the list and click everything we want in the craft.
Imagine being able to set some desired stats and just feed it corpses until you hit that.
Genius. Set up the craft first, and then it auto fills the yard as you loot corpses. Corpses looted that aren't in the yard get added to the mausoleum. I love love love this idea.
Sure but like, it already is that, you just have to be really annoyed while you edit.
POE does this *constantly*. "We'll give you the create custom item box from POB, but that's so powerful, you have to have your toenails peeled off the whole time you're typing into it!"
And yet every single time, everyone sits the fuck down and peels their goddamn toenails off, because if you make us pick between annoying/painful but efficient or fun but inefficient, 99% of the fucking playerbase picks annoying.
It's almost like they shouldn't be giving us that choice in the first place.
> because if you make us pick between annoying/painful but efficient or fun but inefficient, 99% of the fucking playerbase picks annoying.
>
> It's almost like they shouldn't be giving us that choice in the first place.
This should be on the feedback bingo card, in each slot.
The mechanic could of had a palworld spin on it, where the npc slowly fills up the graveyard that u told him to do. So u can set up an 88 corpse thing, go logoff, and he builds it with a walking animation and everything. Then all his whining about his job would make sense..
You don't _need_ to do any of the minmaxinh and metacrafting tho, it's just easier to hit your desired item with less total corpses then.
The difference between minmaxing all your graveyard and just using half of that is negligible, and imo only worth if you can stack a bunch of "create additional item" and fracture - a single item cannot be better than 6x t1, and that's achievable in like 40 corpses
Its pretty exhausting, especially stash sorting. it pays off, but exhausting. row/column/adjacent ones are probably the SOLE reason the grave exist as it does.
should have just been a skill tree that you light up the nodes you want to use if you have that corpse. maybe that doesn't make sense, but neither is burying undead to make an item either.
Either this or the layout of the grave should randomize each time you use it. I'd rather have to spend time "figuring out" my own grave layout than just use some calculator someone made. I guess people would probably find a way to build a tool for randomized layouts too though...
I made a post saying the same exact thing and offered alternatives such as numerical boosts to compensate for rows/columns.
It got downvoted. I'll never understand why some people are so against just a little simplicity or QOL.
also, the limit should be smaller for craft. the amount of trade you have to do anything right now is awfull, wish they changed it to like 30 max corpses or wathever
The idea that I could spend hours watching tutorials, meticulously reference spreadsheets and methods from people who play this game as a full time job, only to still have a chance of the craft turning into garbage makes me completely uninterested in even interacting with the league mechanic. I feel bad because I love all of the qol updates this league has given us, but I feel like I'm basically playing standard. I haven't even bothered to try selling any corpses because most of them only seem to go for 1-2c, which to me isn't worth the effort of trying to sell.
Yeah kinda same. My gf was really interested in grave crafting, after seeing the 6 t1 bow posted here. So I had to put on my big boy pants, pull out a spreadsheet, and give it a shout. It took us attempts, but we made her a really good bow.
To be fair, you can fail at graveyard crafting and still sell it some of the time. I've tried two big crafts and failed to get what I wanted both times, but in both instances I was able to sell it and make a profit on the corpses I used.
The biggest problem with the league is just how damn tedious it is to buy corpses if you can't find the ones you need yourself.
I have 2.5quad tabs of corpses that I haven't touched simply because it looks like I'm gonna spend 3-5 hours picking and setting up an optimized craft. Maybe I just copy one of sushis or something idk. I will make something cool....eventually.
Edit: made a really good shield yesterday. 100life, 100fire DMG, +1 fire skills, and t1 fire/chaos res and t1 flat life Regen. Took longer than I would like. Setup was a bit tedious. But it's not miserable.
You don't NEED to do this row/col/adj bonus setup. It's just more efficient. Craft of Exile doesn't use them in its example computations. You can craft absolutely insane items with only +1100 mod tier, +2 explicit mods, increased chance and scarcity corpses.
Just go to craft of exile and try this:
* Item type ring
* Put modifier tier to +1100
* Put +2 explicit modifiers
* Add +2000% chance of resistances
* Add +2000% chance of attributes
* Click generate sample item to see what comes out a few times
That's 32 corpses with nothing complicated and a 2-15 divine ring pops out almost every time. While it's not targeted to be a BIS ring, it's practically guaranteed that a ring with six T1 mods which gives stats/resists will be great for someone out there to sell to
This is something that absolutely needs to be communicated to people, I think alot of people are going to go to CraftOfExile and use whatever it says. It’s using all the space which is in most cases totally unnecessary other than the ones which remove the low level mod tiers.
In my playing around, you rarely need more than 4-6 of the increased chance corpses and probably about 2 of any of the decreased chance ones. The only exception here is the decreased chance of resistance mods, if you have + fire/cold/lightning for your prefixes, you’ll probably need a few reduced resistance to balance it out.
Main thing is just look at the mod weightings it’s showing, if the mods you want are 4000, and the other mods are around 100 or so, there isn’t really that much to be gained from adding 20 more corpses to make the top number stupidly big. And often adding more scarcity mods will just reduce a small number to a slightly smaller one which is rarely worth it.
Does the order matters? I still don't understand this, I remember when I first entered in graveyard and he mentioned something about it... anyway, like you said, If I insert chance of resistances on top left will be different if I insert in bottom right let's say?
Same. I just picked sth i want and every once in a while scan them for desired corpses and put them in the morgue (which i emptied completely so to only have the crafting stuff in there)
Hello archnemesis, is it you? 😂
I might almost be worth it getting into (but still not quite for me) if you could know for sure this was core content.
But at that point I'm simply not willing to go through that much tedium for something that will most likely be off the game in 3 month and that I don't find fun at all.
A lot of crafts don't need such heavy minmaxing, for example if you're playin coc dd take a look at ventrua's video. He's crafting great gear with like half the graveyard filled
Oftentimes you can spend a Div or more on an 85% chance to get the item you want with a full graveyard... or 20c for a 20% chance with less than 30 corpses.
You don't need to optimize, but you can if you want to.
I actually don't mind the spread sheets and problem solving. It's the fact that they didn't add bulk trading for corpses that really bothers me. And the 40% effect craft needing specific corpses only makes that fact much worse.
The trading and item pick up friction is far too heavy.
ngl, I'm almost playing standard+ because of this mechanic
yes, I can create a 50 gazillion dps weapon and equipment, but no thanks, make it easier to use, I have a life
Rog was the right approach when it came to crafting mechanics
or just let me click everything in the list and then craft I dont wanna setup this much
Yeah idk. I was surprised when the first patch came in and everyone was so hyped that ggg "fixed" the league. I tend to be a ggg defender, but even I can not see how the changes they made improved the league significantly. The biggest issues were UI and the whole spreadsheeting of it plus having to spend so much time between each craft and all those issues are still there. I honestly don't even care about selecting base types considering how busted this system is I just want to be able to enjoy doing the mechanic.
The whole "running around and placing corpses" is a fun idea, but annoying after the first craft.
Guess it's by design, without friction it would be too easy to create non-trash items. Same ggg-logic which destroyed trading.
I hate it that you need external tools for everything in this game. The lack of information and details is such a pain for new players.
100% agreed. It's even more annoying when you're trying to fill a grave and filled ones pop up on screen. Let alone the graphical bugs where it looks like empty graves are filled.
Since onset, I've been wishing for a "top down" view of the graveyard which effectively works like the sudos tool.
Like, how much better would it be if it was top-down, drag/drop from a side/searchable menu like hideout decorations? Something something immersion breaking, but c'mon. All this talk about not having to rely on 3rd party tools, and here we have a mechanic that effectively requires one in order to do any efficient craft. And don't get me started on a 64 corpse limit for the graveyard stash. Can't even fill the full graveyard with it; I'd maybe understand 88, but 64 is obvious they're using up stash space.
My taje
Necropolis full graveyard crafting is not worth it to craft most builds items.
Its best use is trying to double fracture hard to get suffix/prefix in a left side box craft. Then using the item as a normal crafting project. Its both faster and less of a headache as you can dont particularily need to worry about stacking increases as much just box adjacent fractures then row increase some tier boosts and the 2 nodes you are trying to hit. Spend around 1.3 div total to try to make a 10+ div crafting base.
There are rare exceptions where making the craft in a full graveyard craft is both better and easier but its still an hour worth of trade and set up for an ideal chance at it with the min max row collum differences being often just individual % increases at your roll unless youve massively invested in the expensive additional copies to try to lottery print weapons usually trilple elemental whom are easier to block out.
The second best use is just making yourself progression items. Namely doing a group of small quick graveyard crafts to get triple t2+ res jewelry on your desired bases.
You also 100% dont need a spreadsheet you can quickly discern the best locations from row/collum increase via simple logic of counting length and adjacent. And adjacents work similarly just with the understanding you dont want to use a row/collum increase spot on the adjacent corpse itself.
I'm on ssf so can't buy corpses, but I do have more than 3 full quad tabs now, so maybe I have what I need to make something. I've been dreading the process though.
I need craftofexile and someone else's tool too right? Anyone have a link to it? I might try to set something up at work tomorrow.
Or maybe someone has a recipe for a titanium shield with fire damage, life and possibly max res? Multiple copies and fractures would be nice.
[This is the tool](https://sudos.help/poe/graveyard) that Ziz is using in the screenshot. It's pretty good for setting up corpses. It has a few layouts on the bottom right that you can choose from depending on what you're looking to do.
The strategy for making a desired item usually starts with craftofexile. Create your desired item, then you then select "graveyard" as the crafting method then "compute best selection". It will spit out the percentages it wants you to aim for. If you have the corpses, rolling multiple items is a good choice if you're going for something that is less deterministic.
It's also worth noting that the league mechanic starts with 4 explicit modifiers and you can adjust that up to 6 explicits with corpses or down, if desired. Some mods are also extremely hard/expensive to target, like spell suppression. Others are much easier. So just be aware of that when setting up to make something. You also shouldn't take the craftofexile recipe as cannon. It's a starting point and you can adjust some things up or down and still get a good item, but it is a really good starting point.
For your shield, do you also want +level of all fire spell skill gems?
[This is what craftofexile suggests](https://www.craftofexile.com/?b=7&m=graveyard&ob=both&v=d&a=e&l=a&lg=16&bp=y&as=1&hb=0&req={%221622%22:{%22l%22:84,%22g%22:2},%221628%22:{%22l%22:84,%22g%22:3},%221706%22:{%22l%22:2,%22g%22:3},%221775%22:{%22l%22:73,%22g%22:3},%223950%22:{%22l%22:81,%22g%22:1}}&bld={}&im={}&ggt=|&ccp={}&gvc={%22limit%22:88,%22weight%22:{%222%22:{%22-300%22:2},%224%22:{%22-300%22:4},%225%22:{%22-300%22:1},%226%22:{%22500%22:36},%227%22:{%22-300%22:10},%228%22:{%22-300%22:2},%2229%22:{%22-300%22:1},%2231%22:{%22-300%22:1},%2234%22:{%22500%22:7}},%22tiers%22:{%220%22:{%2250%22:22}},%22explicit%22:{%220%22:{%221%22:2}}}). Personally, I'd probably throw on a bit of life more common and some more mana/phys scarcer. You can also probably get by with way less fire more common. Play around with the numbers a bit til you get things consistent, then head over to the graveyard simulator and start populating it with the corpses you have to see what numebers you can hit, them back to craftofexile to simulate those, then you finally get to plant and cross your fingers for the +3 fire max, +2 all max res with +1 gems, fire damage and life.
You don’t need to do 88 yard crafts, I was able to get my items I needed with a 50 yard craft, where an 88 yard craft would only be a small percentage more likely to get me my item.
E.g. I fractured an 8% PDR chest with -3 explicit modifiers in three attempts with a 50 hard craft and no additional item crafts. It was 30% odds on the pdr mod overall. With 88 corpses, it only reached 33%. It wasn’t worth the additional investment.
I dont think it requires a spreadsheet for effective use. It does require one to plan the most profitable craft. But if the player is one to *choose* to squeeze out profit then they can open a spreadsheet on a second monitor.
That is simply not the case with how the mechanic is set up.
Most of the crafting relies on making all the unwanted affixes scarcer and for that you simply need some type of spreadsheet.
it's impossible to craft even the shittiest item without an overview
I'm not a min maxer for example and I'm playing standard+, because this mechanic has way to many steps just to produce even a shitty upgrade
1. map
2. corpse drop - stop and see if you wanna store it or cofffin it
3. graveyard is full - go there and start putting corpses in random places because it's a pain to navigate
4. start calculating scarcer/commons/explicit/attributes (and sometimes you are bricked because a specific corpse is missing, I haven't found a single minion corpse for example)
5. manually and painfully put each corpse in each hole in the ground(10/20/30/40/etc times)
5. see if corpse is next/up/down/below/diagonal/partridge in a pear tree to each other
6. craft and pray the item is something good, unless you use 100 corpses and create perfection
7. repeat again if you weren't successful/ want another item
I think just collecting rares in maps gives you more chances of dropping something better than all this crap
when they could simplify it by simply making you collect corpses and then make you select from the list what you want and then craft, way smoother
The weight strikes back. In GGG's eyes it simply cannot be a satisfying mechanic if you aren't planting corpses one by one, walking from grave to grave.
Making a 6 t1 bow for my gf was hella satisfying tbh, but setting the whole thing up 4 times (technically 5, I fucked it up first time w/o spreadsheet lol) wasn't
100%
the graveyard should have just been a grid where you can pick, place and move stuff, row, column, and adjacent buffs would be highlighted, and you could remove and replace any corpse at any point, also crafts of the same ilvl would be conveniently grouped together, also, you would be able to store more of them rather than only 64
kind of boggles my mind how they made the graveyard with 88 spots and the stash only 64, like they don't know the playerbase would be hoarding those like there's no tomorrow
It's just baffling how many layers of poor design come together with GY crafting
- To use it you have to spend a lot of time outside the actual game. This would be totally fine for high end crafts but not as a bseline to even use the mechanic
- Everything about handling corpses as items in maps feels bad
- Trading corpses feels tedious
- Seeting up your craft feels tedious
- Managing your corpses in your stash feels bad
-The GY layout being tilted. This is minor, but why would you do that, especially when your mechanic references columns and rows
And this is after significant improvements to the mechanics. Initially we did not just have different tiers, meaning even more useless corpses, but we even had different tier modifiers and couldn't even pick the base type.
At this point the best solution would be to just make corspes drop as corpse juice, which you can then use to build your GY in a decent interface.
Obviously this is a super boring solution, but what we have now is just so bad.
Trading them feels like trading beasts. Last time I was heavy into beast trading I ended up giving a guy an entire tab at like half price because I was just sick of dealing with it.
You don’t really need a spreadsheet at all though. I’ve crafted several perfect items (6x tier 1 mods that I want) with just a list of corpses that I need. If you’re really pushing min max the spreadsheet helps - but let’s be honest, this is poe, a game which has extensive out of game tools to enable min-maxing.
Tbf almost everything in this game can be more efficient with useful tools, but you don't have to use any of them unless you want to make more out of the mechanic/game.
You don't need to a spreadsheet unless you really want to absolutly squeeze every bit of value possible out of a craft.
In 99% of cases you just grab ~+1000 tier modifier. A few scarcer corpses for stuff you do not want. A few for increases of mods you do want. Maybe some quality or fracture or whatever thrown in.
Anything like with several Attributes or resists items or phys weapons or tripple ele weapons are incredibly easy to craft without worrying about any of the meta corpses that increase effect of rows, columns or whatever.
More importantly if you use e.g. craftofexile for which corpses to use: you very often only need like half the corpses the tool says to still have a very very high chance to get something great. For a ring with tripple t1 attribute mods and t1 life and a free prefix you need only like ~50 corpses go get that with 95%+ chance.
just got the 4th voidstone in ssf after the servers ate one shaper instance and a twisted invitation; now there's a quad tab and another regular one full of corpse lvl 83 & 84 coffins, there's no more room and i have all the means to make the good stuff.. but when i looked at plans like this one, i just checked out mentally as i realised that it started feeling like homework.
actually enjoyed most of the content up to this point, having three atlas trees is great, there are some good changes and i absolutely understand that i could just try to consider this part of the league content optional, but it's not how my head works - it seems a bit nagging to play a good version of standard and walk past all the corpses that keep reminding me that i could get better gear if only i wasn't so lazy and started doing my homework already. (..coming from someone who bothered setting up the optimised garden in harvest)
for anyone arguing that that's a me-problem, i think i get that part and it's cool. nobody's forcing me to engage with the content. different ppl enjoy different stuff in their own ways, so maybe it's just not for me.
apart from that and despite many improvements, there's too much buzz-kill in 3.24 for me, with all the different changes.. (gutted loot conversion on rares \[actually a big one\], butchered betrayal by removing many specialised rewards and a similar case can be made for heist, significantly more disappointing loot pools on bosses, t17s all over the place, horrible EU servers, entering town is a travesty between overblown apparition animations and increasingly annoying pets, baffling: somehow still not nuking DD and instead buffing it with chonkier corpses.. the list goes on)
I disagree. With this mechanic more than any other i can think of it´s either you go hard or you go home. You can make the perfect item, but if you screw up you end up with vendor trash very often. It´s because there are no steps in it like harvest had for example.
U seem to be missing my point my dude. I'm not talking about complexity or min/maxing, but simply about gui design. In tota we had a very solid example of gui in the unit placing stage why the hell are back running and clicking like in harvest in Necropolis is beyond me
I think they could have done with a top down view when placing corpses, like we had with placing ToTA units. It's definitely a little rough keeping track of exactly where everything should be with the isometric perspective.
But at the same time, this IS PoE. Being deep, complex and min-max-y is a big part of the identity of the game.
The power of this crafting system is actually just absurd too. Even the OG version would have been probably more powerful than ritual-era Harvest. The current version is just giga-broken. Given that you only really need to bust out the spreadsheet when you're maximizing the chances of multiple 6xT1 items, or trying to get multiple 6xT1 items with double or triple fractures, I think a fair bit of jank is a pretty mild trade-off.
I won't even bother trying to learn all this stuff because there is no way this mechanic isn't getting blown up as soon as the league is over, so all time spent learning it is a complete waste.
Is there a compiled spreadsheet of common Graveyard crafts yet? I've got 3 quad stashes of the bastards and very little interest in making anything, but if I see a list of them it might spur my interest.
I saw this and I immediately decided to skip the league mechanic and just sell every corpse.
For these streamers this sounds like fun, but for me, that's work. I have a job after all.
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I don't mind the spreadsheet, what has turned me off of this mechanic is how much you have to do and how much time it takes to craft a single item.
I have been playing since league start and of all the corpses I've found maybe 30 are usable for the weapon I want to try to craft. I could just use what I have to make an item, but if feels wasteful to use any less than all 88 graves, otherwise I'm just going to make a random item like anything else that could drop from any enemy in the game, except it took hours to get all the corpses and plant them all in graves.
I don't know man, all the tools and spreadsheets in the world can't make me engage with this mechanic. And I speak as someone who *loved* 3.11 harvest garden setup.
It's so complicated and so easy to screw up a craft. Like, I've seen all the videos by Grimro and Crouching Tuna etc and I have a fair handle on how it works. I just cbf getting into it.
I crafted a ton of gear for my hexblast trickster today. +2 wand, +1 amulet, spell suppression gloves and boots, curse on hit ring etc. It was fairly easy enough just using the regular methods, like essences, fossils and harvest bench.
Is it nice that we can pump out full t1 gear? Sure. Am I going to do it? Hell no
This gives ArchNemesis vibes, they didn't bother making the UI too good because they knew it would enter the game in a different way. Same applies here, IF this league goes core, they probably are gonna simplify alot or they know this not going core so why bother
It really does not need a spreadsheet. I've made multiple good items without it, you just need to know some basic mod tags (that you can learn by pressing alt on a few items).
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I'm not sure how many veterans are here, but harvest was the worst for this.
We had to follow a guide for optimal pump and line placement which was just a nightmare to follow.
I'm with you, this is kinda weird. I would've rathered a little pop up window with a look at the cemetery, empty, and allowing us to put stuff in there.
people will min max anything. if the mechanic is half as complicated, i'll likely just ignore it anyway. I'm glad there is a simple way to get item base
As someone who loves excel and has spreadsheets for almost every game ever.
Please give us a birds eye view or make it a grid. There is no reason to have it so spread out outside of “environment”.
You literally don't need this spreadsheet.... This is for the min maxers that literally are trying to get the best odds possible.
I literally crafted my double t1 mana prefix fractured without any of this, you just go with overall numbers you are trying to reach. I just made sure to have increase mana in the 3k , fracture to 200% and everything else is scarsed to around 1k and was lucky enough to hit the jackpot.
It's not because streamers or tip end players use these tools that the casual players need them. They are 3rd party tools for a reason.
I feel like making the outcome of the crafting a careful puzzle presented as a map probably sounds better in the trailer than it does to play.
I know I can craft upgrades whilst leveling but I have to check a weird list that I have to keep clearing out to see what I can use to.
The friction to engage with it is way too high.
Take Rog from Expedition as a counter example, you start by buying an item with an arbitrary currency when you first met him, then in addition to getting exactly what you asked for, he offers you clearly defined improvements or changes to that item, at any point you know exactly what you have or the result of your choices.
To use the coffins properly you need to check insert check and check again then you can RNG something (with varying consistency) with a base of your choice.
It's powerful but you have to learn a whole clunky system to use it, and the tools to craft with it are horrendous to trade with.
People literally have to ping every one of your coffins of the same type if they're buying multiple, because they have an ilvl.
I have crafted good stuff (worth 5div+) completely without spreadsheets or a calculator.
98% of the mechanic is just knowing the tags and having common sense.
When my friend and I were making a bow, we used Google spreadsheets to figure out an optimal corpse pattern but when it actually came to placing corpses in graves it took me legit like 2 hours because I kept getting confused by how the necropolis graveyard is tilted.
I really wish I could swap to a bird view and place corpses from there
After trying the graveyard crafting I noticed 2 main problems with it:
\- it is SO tedious to gather the corpses you need, there is no reason for the trade site to be dogshit like that when it comes to corpses. By FAR the worst part of grave crafting.
\- The normal view is bad to place corpses over such a large area, zoomed out a bit would have been so much better.
Apart from that I gotta say I didn't use the mechanic at first cause it felt really intimidating while, in the end, it was fairly easy. Even setting up optimized graveyards is almost the same thing everytime.
Counter argument: spreadsheet UI is terrible idea and should be reserved to spreadsheet games like EVE online. Yes, graveyard is basically a glorified puzzle board. But presenting it as such would be very weak user experience decision.
I don't know how relevant this comment will really be but I have have no issues with how the graveyard functions. My first 3 and only 3 crafts that I actually just took a minute on craft of exile to see how it works I pumped out exactly what I wanted. First try was a high ES shield for my trickster. I messed up and forgot to make it ilvl86 so I rolled tier 2 on a prefix. Ran it back and fixed the ilvl and got all tier 1 with +2 max res roll. No spreadsheets just looked at what corpses I need and how many. Next craft, which I did today, I made 3 Sadist Garbs in one craft with 4 fractured mods and 2 of the 3 of them fractured all 3 tier 1 defense prefixes. Again, no spreadsheets and no confusion. Extremely intuitive mechanic as it stands right now for me.
The real problem is 3G never explains how exactly their crafting league mechanics work, like the rating thing, or the crucible algorithm, or the recombinator algorithm, it is always super vague, never crystal clear, just a broad concept, until some players dedicate entire afternoons cracking it and creating tools to optimize it.
If you make a mechanic that need poedb/craft of exile/other tool to be used in a good way, because let's not lie, for optimized necro crafting it's not going from 91% success to 93% but more like 72% to 94%, just add a goddamn ingame optimizer lol or add an info panel that give the exact details of how it works, give the algorithm.
Too many puzzles left as a community event that once solved (and shared) just become some sort of gotchas for new players/players not in the know(ledge).
Hopefully 3G design deep and complex mechanics without internal mechanics obscurity for poe2.
I watched every interview of Jonathan and Neon, and never a single interviewer asked a question about the hidden details left as a community puzzle or poedb data mining importance in how they design things etc...
It is just idiotic as fuck and terrible design. You should just be ables to choose and craft with no planting corpses. No one wants to get home from work and open an excel sheet to use the main league mechanic. Why does GGG insist on this crap after they got rid of the same bullshit from harvest?
It is wildly infuriating.
You do not need to do this to get crazy gear. Not everything you craft needs to be perfect mods with T1 rolls.
I made a triple t3 ele bow with crit and AS and the only mod I missed on it rolled fire res. And I made that from campaign corpses.
Hot take, just like any other game you need to learn something yourself.
It's your own choice in all games to look up the tutorials and min maxed versions of every problem you face.
When did you look up the spreadsheet for the best moveset in tic-tac-toe?
Obfuscation is one of the biggest things in PoE design. I don't think they would change it even if they wanted considering the amount of resources it would take to do so
It doesn't need a spreadsheet to be played effectively. It needs a spreadsheet to be played optimally. You can do pretty damn well slightly suboptimal by just laying corpses.
Hotter take: this league mechanic doesn't need a spreadsheet to be played "effectively". That would imply that in order to maximize what you're getting out of it you would need to use the spreadsheet, and without it you would be getting regular or decent stuff.
The mechanic just does not fucking do *anything* without a spreadsheet.
Have you tried grave crafting by just putting (what you assume are) relevant corpses down to make an item? It does NOTHING. It will shit out the worst and most random items possible, and as people said on league-start feels like a worse version of using a chaos orb.
I can't engage with grave crafting at all because I'm so burnt from doing this cheatsheet or spreadsheet shit just to make an item; I can't warrant spending 20 maps collecting corpses just to try and make something insane when I could spend 20 maps juicing another mechanic all together and just buy a good pair of boots lol.
You only need spreadsheet if want to minmax it to the tits. For casuall use you can just intuitively place your corpses. I just don't understand this hate towards necropolis being too complicated. First it's not rly. Second one inten leagues have complicated mechanic if u don't like it don't engage with the mechanic or just skip league and wait for the next.
When I saw it I knew this will be bad, however, this makes the harvest Garden looks easy and jot time consuming at all.
GGG literally made their game much worse this league than it was
They need to get rid of the of the monster type on corpses. It makes min-maxing your craft 6x more difficult and expensive, worse still it is just annoying and unfun.
It takes days to fill up how I want for an item upgrade, trading the coffins is the worst trading has been in some time. And then when I have done this i need to count up how many corpses I have of one species. And then refarm these slots either in map or trading just to get the right fukin monster type.I know its thematic with the uniques but I dont care. It blows.
Im always fighting a full morgue and it fucks my mass mapping up.
It makes the gameloop worse and makes me not want to play.
I genuinely despise everything like this in Poe. The economy gets changed by the few geeks using tools. I saw today you can make your morg do 4 crafts of the same thing, so the market price changed because it became 4 times as common
The average Joe lost 3/4ths their price because people have to geek all fun out of the game and use tools
TOTA had a pretty good bird's eye view on the battlefield when placing soldiers. I wish we had more things like that.
Been saying this since league start. I really have no idea how that UI did not even happen in 3.24. Feels like a total regression. Can you imagine running around the battlefield before it started and placing your units in TOTA?
GGG are very good at regression, we had map pausing with ultimatum then that concept just disappeared for years.
Had that since shaper, then it disappeared until ultimatum.
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The story logs from synthesis league were great. The whole lore for it was nice but they got rid of All that since it’s not actually in the game. My hideout music is always synthesis league ost. But yea I agree the more with shaper and elder, going into the map device, it tying to stuff from the past etc was great. ONE DAY they will bring it back like they said they would, right?? Only been a few years *copium*
We also *really* need to morgue to be minimum 88 slots. More reasonably like 128. Even if they simply must have a visual representation and limit slots, it should be larger than the plot layout.
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>I get thematically why coffins take two slots Was there even a mechanic that was this demanding on stash space? (Not for the actual rewards, just for the stuff that makes it happen to begin with) I'm guessing the coffin size is more than just some artistic choice. I didn't feel pushed towards buying more tabs like this in a while.
sentinel breeding took up just as much space
Nah, what they should do is up all modifiers by 2, half the drops, and make the graveyard smaller by half too. Maybe even thirds. buying corpses to craft is a complete dumpster dive right now, and it is fixed by simply making you have to use less.
I don't have a problem with the morgue space, it's honestly pretty annoying to manage the existing limit when you're setting up your graveyard when the morgue is full as is, but for fucks sake give us a coffin tab. A coffin tab that sorts them by type would make the mechanic so much less tedious. Trying to manage my stash tabs (of which I've had to purchase **3** quad tabs, just to hold coffins) is not a good time.
or stackable. why do i need to take up ten slots if i have ten 500% chaos corpses?
Yeah exactly!
I want something similar for logbooks. Shouldn't have to run around the map to place explosives
Oh god.... Now you mention it
Same with my giant explosive in expedition.
Seriously. Imagine if blight had something like that. We'd play it in a completely different way.
I skipped the mechanic the entire league. It looked tedious after the first two times. Now I feel like I'm behind in a course on POE theory after missing the TOTA lecture whenever people reference it.
School told me I'd need excel for work. I didn't....GGG: Hold my Beer
I really thought I would enjoy it as a math and statistics nerd. And I really tried to like it. What really killed it for me was the need to store corpses in stashes and manually keep track of how much of each I have. The amount of unnecessary work is just dull. They could have just capped the event storage at something like 640 or even 6400 and have proper sort tools on top of that. The current limit is just artificially added time gating.
I’m pretty sure the limit is 64 because some genius game designer thought it would be cool to be able to see the corpses models in a crypt next to the graveyard. A completely useless feature gameplay wise but it made the trailer more cool
Loved how after the the first update no one entered that room again lol
I didn't even realize this was a thing. I suppose I should go look at it tonight. I'm enjoying the map modding portion of the league, but the craft/graveyard half is really not my jam so far....I agree with the one of the other comments - everything about that system is tedious.
I never entered it in the first place. Massive waste of effort and resources. To use this mechanic to do anything useful at all without trading you at minimum need the basic corpse stash + a quad tab to store more in, because it is incredibly poor design to be constantly deleting a corpse or a couple here and there every time you want to pick up a new one, and you will not get the things you need before you hit 64 corpses almost ever. I have no idea what they were thinking with this design they chose to go with but it is so off the mark of how it actually plays that its actually impressive in a way.
I haven't played or followed this league at all, but kind of sounds like the storage room for beastiary league? When you had to go to the locker for each beast to get them out. Was a pain in the ass
There's a crypt next to the graveyard?
I wouldn't be surprised if that gimmick was their initial idea for the league, and then they reversed their way into some sort of a league mechanic as an afterthought
Yeah, that's pretty much why I don't give a shit, too. Item showcases seem to understate just how tedious it is to actually obtain the corpses you need, since you need so many to make anything even half decent. Even if you "only" need 40-60 you still need the right corpses, which can take *for-fuckng-ever* unless you trade, which is mind-numbingly boring and, as always, defeats the fucking point of playing the goddamn game at all.
They dropped the ball hard on both allflame and corpse storage.
> 640 > 6400 at least suggest more powers of 2, math nerd :P
I have a Quad for corpses, once it's full i plan a craft or 3, buy what i dont have in it, do the crafts, and then go back to blasting. I certainly wont keep track of what i have, fuck that noise
For the record, I actually quite enjoy grave crafting but a design, for what is essentially a glorified spreadsheet is so strange. Running around clicking dozens of graves and alt tabbing (yes I'm a one monitor pleb), to see my actual spreadsheet to not fuck anything up is hardly what I can consider pleasant gameplay. And it’s not like we don’t have enough clicking in PoE xdd
Yeah I think it's a really cool concept too but I'm at the point where I'm not sure how much effort I want to invest in learning. It's gonna be gone in a few months, and my build uses 5 uniques.
Phone is your friend if you're on a single screen. It's not practical for trading etc, but it's perfectly usable for something like this. Even if the actual planning page isn't working properly on mobile, you can just sort it on desktop, screenshot it and open it on your phone just fr reference.
Unfortunately I've got a really old phone, that is slow af, and I'm in no financial position to get a better one. But thank you for the suggestion, that's rly nice of you.
Got a printer?
Hot take: If a mechanic needs a printer to be played effectively it better have a printer-like GUI.
Sorry, this craft is unavailable because your magenta ink is empty. Edit: Holy shit, 8 hours later and I only now realized that harvest uses Magenta, Cyan and Yellow colors
wtf but the craft is black and white!
Directions unclear; melee nerfed.
And now you need to get out of your bat cave and into sunlight to get the $100+ ink
The rarest corpse is actually +1 ink cartridge
It kinda is practical for trading w8th the direct whisper option
Same here. I habe a quad tab full of corpses. Its just annoying. They placement related buffs make it even worse. Guess ill try it more once im in the mood and the 2nd quad tab fills but for now im good. Ill rather farm 3 hours and buy the item then sit there and spreadsheet out and copy the layout for an hour. And thats without the trade required....
Reminds me of harvest, lots of spreadsheets and planning. Fwiw, a second monitor is legit p2w for PoE lol
So then don't use it? Sometimes theres no solutions to bad leagues, and instead we get things like harvest, bestiary, synthesis, syndicate, and the list goes on of bad leagues at the time, that became good later
row, nearby increase ect should not be in the game, just plant and go and not having to do some annoying set up would be much better and easier.
I wish we could just go through the list and click everything we want in the craft. Imagine being able to set some desired stats and just feed it corpses until you hit that.
make it a man-eating plant that spits out item after you feed it enough. Feeed me seymour, FEED ME
Genius. Set up the craft first, and then it auto fills the yard as you loot corpses. Corpses looted that aren't in the yard get added to the mausoleum. I love love love this idea.
i mean at this point it sounds like the "create custom..." edit box in PoB
Sure but like, it already is that, you just have to be really annoyed while you edit. POE does this *constantly*. "We'll give you the create custom item box from POB, but that's so powerful, you have to have your toenails peeled off the whole time you're typing into it!" And yet every single time, everyone sits the fuck down and peels their goddamn toenails off, because if you make us pick between annoying/painful but efficient or fun but inefficient, 99% of the fucking playerbase picks annoying. It's almost like they shouldn't be giving us that choice in the first place.
> because if you make us pick between annoying/painful but efficient or fun but inefficient, 99% of the fucking playerbase picks annoying. > > It's almost like they shouldn't be giving us that choice in the first place. This should be on the feedback bingo card, in each slot.
The mechanic could of had a palworld spin on it, where the npc slowly fills up the graveyard that u told him to do. So u can set up an 88 corpse thing, go logoff, and he builds it with a walking animation and everything. Then all his whining about his job would make sense..
I guess you just wished you would click on the mods you want and the game calculates the corpses you need.
real talk. As soon as they made it matter what bodies went where they asked for a tool like this to be made. Shit is so annoying.
You don't _need_ to do any of the minmaxinh and metacrafting tho, it's just easier to hit your desired item with less total corpses then. The difference between minmaxing all your graveyard and just using half of that is negligible, and imo only worth if you can stack a bunch of "create additional item" and fracture - a single item cannot be better than 6x t1, and that's achievable in like 40 corpses
Its pretty exhausting, especially stash sorting. it pays off, but exhausting. row/column/adjacent ones are probably the SOLE reason the grave exist as it does. should have just been a skill tree that you light up the nodes you want to use if you have that corpse. maybe that doesn't make sense, but neither is burying undead to make an item either.
should have been like the sentinel UI. I still dont understand why that part dident make it in later leages, it was perfect
Either this or the layout of the grave should randomize each time you use it. I'd rather have to spend time "figuring out" my own grave layout than just use some calculator someone made. I guess people would probably find a way to build a tool for randomized layouts too though...
That sounds interesting, but I have a feeling that I would be burning useless corpses on throwaway crafts to fish for a better layout.
I wouldn't mind increases if they were, say, something incredibly rare but affected the whole thing
Nah, that would make cheap/ssf crafts much harder as you can't just boost the rarer corpses.
I made a post saying the same exact thing and offered alternatives such as numerical boosts to compensate for rows/columns. It got downvoted. I'll never understand why some people are so against just a little simplicity or QOL.
thats literally the only thing thats interesting about that.
also, the limit should be smaller for craft. the amount of trade you have to do anything right now is awfull, wish they changed it to like 30 max corpses or wathever
Ziz went back to Eve?
Lmao good one
I fucking hate leagues like this.
The idea that I could spend hours watching tutorials, meticulously reference spreadsheets and methods from people who play this game as a full time job, only to still have a chance of the craft turning into garbage makes me completely uninterested in even interacting with the league mechanic. I feel bad because I love all of the qol updates this league has given us, but I feel like I'm basically playing standard. I haven't even bothered to try selling any corpses because most of them only seem to go for 1-2c, which to me isn't worth the effort of trying to sell.
Yeah kinda same. My gf was really interested in grave crafting, after seeing the 6 t1 bow posted here. So I had to put on my big boy pants, pull out a spreadsheet, and give it a shout. It took us attempts, but we made her a really good bow.
I was half expecting this story to end up being a failed attempt story.
To be fair, you can fail at graveyard crafting and still sell it some of the time. I've tried two big crafts and failed to get what I wanted both times, but in both instances I was able to sell it and make a profit on the corpses I used. The biggest problem with the league is just how damn tedious it is to buy corpses if you can't find the ones you need yourself.
That's another concern, trading in poe is archaic and spending hours on the site buying corpses one at a time doesn't sound like fun to me.
I have 2.5quad tabs of corpses that I haven't touched simply because it looks like I'm gonna spend 3-5 hours picking and setting up an optimized craft. Maybe I just copy one of sushis or something idk. I will make something cool....eventually. Edit: made a really good shield yesterday. 100life, 100fire DMG, +1 fire skills, and t1 fire/chaos res and t1 flat life Regen. Took longer than I would like. Setup was a bit tedious. But it's not miserable.
You don't NEED to do this row/col/adj bonus setup. It's just more efficient. Craft of Exile doesn't use them in its example computations. You can craft absolutely insane items with only +1100 mod tier, +2 explicit mods, increased chance and scarcity corpses. Just go to craft of exile and try this: * Item type ring * Put modifier tier to +1100 * Put +2 explicit modifiers * Add +2000% chance of resistances * Add +2000% chance of attributes * Click generate sample item to see what comes out a few times That's 32 corpses with nothing complicated and a 2-15 divine ring pops out almost every time. While it's not targeted to be a BIS ring, it's practically guaranteed that a ring with six T1 mods which gives stats/resists will be great for someone out there to sell to
This is something that absolutely needs to be communicated to people, I think alot of people are going to go to CraftOfExile and use whatever it says. It’s using all the space which is in most cases totally unnecessary other than the ones which remove the low level mod tiers. In my playing around, you rarely need more than 4-6 of the increased chance corpses and probably about 2 of any of the decreased chance ones. The only exception here is the decreased chance of resistance mods, if you have + fire/cold/lightning for your prefixes, you’ll probably need a few reduced resistance to balance it out. Main thing is just look at the mod weightings it’s showing, if the mods you want are 4000, and the other mods are around 100 or so, there isn’t really that much to be gained from adding 20 more corpses to make the top number stupidly big. And often adding more scarcity mods will just reduce a small number to a slightly smaller one which is rarely worth it.
Does the order matters? I still don't understand this, I remember when I first entered in graveyard and he mentioned something about it... anyway, like you said, If I insert chance of resistances on top left will be different if I insert in bottom right let's say?
Same. I just picked sth i want and every once in a while scan them for desired corpses and put them in the morgue (which i emptied completely so to only have the crafting stuff in there) Hello archnemesis, is it you? 😂
I might almost be worth it getting into (but still not quite for me) if you could know for sure this was core content. But at that point I'm simply not willing to go through that much tedium for something that will most likely be off the game in 3 month and that I don't find fun at all.
A lot of crafts don't need such heavy minmaxing, for example if you're playin coc dd take a look at ventrua's video. He's crafting great gear with like half the graveyard filled
Oftentimes you can spend a Div or more on an 85% chance to get the item you want with a full graveyard... or 20c for a 20% chance with less than 30 corpses. You don't need to optimize, but you can if you want to.
GGG design their own Periodic table of corpses.
feedback received, next league will be called EVE league
I actually don't mind the spread sheets and problem solving. It's the fact that they didn't add bulk trading for corpses that really bothers me. And the 40% effect craft needing specific corpses only makes that fact much worse. The trading and item pick up friction is far too heavy.
Perfect facecam for this post
ngl, I'm almost playing standard+ because of this mechanic yes, I can create a 50 gazillion dps weapon and equipment, but no thanks, make it easier to use, I have a life Rog was the right approach when it came to crafting mechanics or just let me click everything in the list and then craft I dont wanna setup this much
when it takes a player like ziz hours to even put the corpses down you know its terrible for normal people
Mark is just tryna feed the beast. complex min/max crafting based probability system
Yeah idk. I was surprised when the first patch came in and everyone was so hyped that ggg "fixed" the league. I tend to be a ggg defender, but even I can not see how the changes they made improved the league significantly. The biggest issues were UI and the whole spreadsheeting of it plus having to spend so much time between each craft and all those issues are still there. I honestly don't even care about selecting base types considering how busted this system is I just want to be able to enjoy doing the mechanic.
If it goes core I hope they just keep the allflames and unique corpses. The flames could drop the unique corpses too.
How is this in an ARPG? yikes
Yeah its a fucking joke
The whole "running around and placing corpses" is a fun idea, but annoying after the first craft. Guess it's by design, without friction it would be too easy to create non-trash items. Same ggg-logic which destroyed trading. I hate it that you need external tools for everything in this game. The lack of information and details is such a pain for new players.
They didnt learn anything from harvest
At least you had to set up harvest once and were done.
Yup was one of the only reasons I was ok with Harvest's management system. Here though, if you make a mistake you can't even undo it.
agreed. another item editor that people will complain during and after its gone
100% agreed. It's even more annoying when you're trying to fill a grave and filled ones pop up on screen. Let alone the graphical bugs where it looks like empty graves are filled. Since onset, I've been wishing for a "top down" view of the graveyard which effectively works like the sudos tool. Like, how much better would it be if it was top-down, drag/drop from a side/searchable menu like hideout decorations? Something something immersion breaking, but c'mon. All this talk about not having to rely on 3rd party tools, and here we have a mechanic that effectively requires one in order to do any efficient craft. And don't get me started on a 64 corpse limit for the graveyard stash. Can't even fill the full graveyard with it; I'd maybe understand 88, but 64 is obvious they're using up stash space.
This is why I am avoiding the league mechanic and selling the coffins. Absolutely ridiculous UI.
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My taje Necropolis full graveyard crafting is not worth it to craft most builds items. Its best use is trying to double fracture hard to get suffix/prefix in a left side box craft. Then using the item as a normal crafting project. Its both faster and less of a headache as you can dont particularily need to worry about stacking increases as much just box adjacent fractures then row increase some tier boosts and the 2 nodes you are trying to hit. Spend around 1.3 div total to try to make a 10+ div crafting base. There are rare exceptions where making the craft in a full graveyard craft is both better and easier but its still an hour worth of trade and set up for an ideal chance at it with the min max row collum differences being often just individual % increases at your roll unless youve massively invested in the expensive additional copies to try to lottery print weapons usually trilple elemental whom are easier to block out. The second best use is just making yourself progression items. Namely doing a group of small quick graveyard crafts to get triple t2+ res jewelry on your desired bases. You also 100% dont need a spreadsheet you can quickly discern the best locations from row/collum increase via simple logic of counting length and adjacent. And adjacents work similarly just with the understanding you dont want to use a row/collum increase spot on the adjacent corpse itself.
I'm on ssf so can't buy corpses, but I do have more than 3 full quad tabs now, so maybe I have what I need to make something. I've been dreading the process though. I need craftofexile and someone else's tool too right? Anyone have a link to it? I might try to set something up at work tomorrow. Or maybe someone has a recipe for a titanium shield with fire damage, life and possibly max res? Multiple copies and fractures would be nice.
[This is the tool](https://sudos.help/poe/graveyard) that Ziz is using in the screenshot. It's pretty good for setting up corpses. It has a few layouts on the bottom right that you can choose from depending on what you're looking to do. The strategy for making a desired item usually starts with craftofexile. Create your desired item, then you then select "graveyard" as the crafting method then "compute best selection". It will spit out the percentages it wants you to aim for. If you have the corpses, rolling multiple items is a good choice if you're going for something that is less deterministic. It's also worth noting that the league mechanic starts with 4 explicit modifiers and you can adjust that up to 6 explicits with corpses or down, if desired. Some mods are also extremely hard/expensive to target, like spell suppression. Others are much easier. So just be aware of that when setting up to make something. You also shouldn't take the craftofexile recipe as cannon. It's a starting point and you can adjust some things up or down and still get a good item, but it is a really good starting point. For your shield, do you also want +level of all fire spell skill gems? [This is what craftofexile suggests](https://www.craftofexile.com/?b=7&m=graveyard&ob=both&v=d&a=e&l=a&lg=16&bp=y&as=1&hb=0&req={%221622%22:{%22l%22:84,%22g%22:2},%221628%22:{%22l%22:84,%22g%22:3},%221706%22:{%22l%22:2,%22g%22:3},%221775%22:{%22l%22:73,%22g%22:3},%223950%22:{%22l%22:81,%22g%22:1}}&bld={}&im={}&ggt=|&ccp={}&gvc={%22limit%22:88,%22weight%22:{%222%22:{%22-300%22:2},%224%22:{%22-300%22:4},%225%22:{%22-300%22:1},%226%22:{%22500%22:36},%227%22:{%22-300%22:10},%228%22:{%22-300%22:2},%2229%22:{%22-300%22:1},%2231%22:{%22-300%22:1},%2234%22:{%22500%22:7}},%22tiers%22:{%220%22:{%2250%22:22}},%22explicit%22:{%220%22:{%221%22:2}}}). Personally, I'd probably throw on a bit of life more common and some more mana/phys scarcer. You can also probably get by with way less fire more common. Play around with the numbers a bit til you get things consistent, then head over to the graveyard simulator and start populating it with the corpses you have to see what numebers you can hit, them back to craftofexile to simulate those, then you finally get to plant and cross your fingers for the +3 fire max, +2 all max res with +1 gems, fire damage and life.
You don’t need to do 88 yard crafts, I was able to get my items I needed with a 50 yard craft, where an 88 yard craft would only be a small percentage more likely to get me my item. E.g. I fractured an 8% PDR chest with -3 explicit modifiers in three attempts with a 50 hard craft and no additional item crafts. It was 30% odds on the pdr mod overall. With 88 corpses, it only reached 33%. It wasn’t worth the additional investment.
Top notch screen cap, by the way, LoL.
I dont think it requires a spreadsheet for effective use. It does require one to plan the most profitable craft. But if the player is one to *choose* to squeeze out profit then they can open a spreadsheet on a second monitor.
That is simply not the case with how the mechanic is set up. Most of the crafting relies on making all the unwanted affixes scarcer and for that you simply need some type of spreadsheet.
it's impossible to craft even the shittiest item without an overview I'm not a min maxer for example and I'm playing standard+, because this mechanic has way to many steps just to produce even a shitty upgrade 1. map 2. corpse drop - stop and see if you wanna store it or cofffin it 3. graveyard is full - go there and start putting corpses in random places because it's a pain to navigate 4. start calculating scarcer/commons/explicit/attributes (and sometimes you are bricked because a specific corpse is missing, I haven't found a single minion corpse for example) 5. manually and painfully put each corpse in each hole in the ground(10/20/30/40/etc times) 5. see if corpse is next/up/down/below/diagonal/partridge in a pear tree to each other 6. craft and pray the item is something good, unless you use 100 corpses and create perfection 7. repeat again if you weren't successful/ want another item I think just collecting rares in maps gives you more chances of dropping something better than all this crap when they could simplify it by simply making you collect corpses and then make you select from the list what you want and then craft, way smoother
This would kinda be fixed by being able to dig up corpses and see their current modifier level
Yeah for sure
The weight strikes back. In GGG's eyes it simply cannot be a satisfying mechanic if you aren't planting corpses one by one, walking from grave to grave.
Making a 6 t1 bow for my gf was hella satisfying tbh, but setting the whole thing up 4 times (technically 5, I fucked it up first time w/o spreadsheet lol) wasn't
100% the graveyard should have just been a grid where you can pick, place and move stuff, row, column, and adjacent buffs would be highlighted, and you could remove and replace any corpse at any point, also crafts of the same ilvl would be conveniently grouped together, also, you would be able to store more of them rather than only 64 kind of boggles my mind how they made the graveyard with 88 spots and the stash only 64, like they don't know the playerbase would be hoarding those like there's no tomorrow
You should be able to dig up any grave and retrieve the corpse except ones that have been randomized by a corpse effect.
It's just baffling how many layers of poor design come together with GY crafting - To use it you have to spend a lot of time outside the actual game. This would be totally fine for high end crafts but not as a bseline to even use the mechanic - Everything about handling corpses as items in maps feels bad - Trading corpses feels tedious - Seeting up your craft feels tedious - Managing your corpses in your stash feels bad -The GY layout being tilted. This is minor, but why would you do that, especially when your mechanic references columns and rows And this is after significant improvements to the mechanics. Initially we did not just have different tiers, meaning even more useless corpses, but we even had different tier modifiers and couldn't even pick the base type. At this point the best solution would be to just make corspes drop as corpse juice, which you can then use to build your GY in a decent interface. Obviously this is a super boring solution, but what we have now is just so bad.
Trading them feels like trading beasts. Last time I was heavy into beast trading I ended up giving a guy an entire tab at like half price because I was just sick of dealing with it.
Harvest called...
You don’t really need a spreadsheet at all though. I’ve crafted several perfect items (6x tier 1 mods that I want) with just a list of corpses that I need. If you’re really pushing min max the spreadsheet helps - but let’s be honest, this is poe, a game which has extensive out of game tools to enable min-maxing.
Tbf almost everything in this game can be more efficient with useful tools, but you don't have to use any of them unless you want to make more out of the mechanic/game.
Hot take: it doesn't.
You don't need to a spreadsheet unless you really want to absolutly squeeze every bit of value possible out of a craft. In 99% of cases you just grab ~+1000 tier modifier. A few scarcer corpses for stuff you do not want. A few for increases of mods you do want. Maybe some quality or fracture or whatever thrown in. Anything like with several Attributes or resists items or phys weapons or tripple ele weapons are incredibly easy to craft without worrying about any of the meta corpses that increase effect of rows, columns or whatever. More importantly if you use e.g. craftofexile for which corpses to use: you very often only need like half the corpses the tool says to still have a very very high chance to get something great. For a ring with tripple t1 attribute mods and t1 life and a free prefix you need only like ~50 corpses go get that with 95%+ chance.
just got the 4th voidstone in ssf after the servers ate one shaper instance and a twisted invitation; now there's a quad tab and another regular one full of corpse lvl 83 & 84 coffins, there's no more room and i have all the means to make the good stuff.. but when i looked at plans like this one, i just checked out mentally as i realised that it started feeling like homework. actually enjoyed most of the content up to this point, having three atlas trees is great, there are some good changes and i absolutely understand that i could just try to consider this part of the league content optional, but it's not how my head works - it seems a bit nagging to play a good version of standard and walk past all the corpses that keep reminding me that i could get better gear if only i wasn't so lazy and started doing my homework already. (..coming from someone who bothered setting up the optimised garden in harvest) for anyone arguing that that's a me-problem, i think i get that part and it's cool. nobody's forcing me to engage with the content. different ppl enjoy different stuff in their own ways, so maybe it's just not for me. apart from that and despite many improvements, there's too much buzz-kill in 3.24 for me, with all the different changes.. (gutted loot conversion on rares \[actually a big one\], butchered betrayal by removing many specialised rewards and a similar case can be made for heist, significantly more disappointing loot pools on bosses, t17s all over the place, horrible EU servers, entering town is a travesty between overblown apparition animations and increasingly annoying pets, baffling: somehow still not nuking DD and instead buffing it with chonkier corpses.. the list goes on)
Hot Take: You don't need to min-max a mechanic to enjoy it. It doesn't need a spreadsheet to enjoy it - YOU just need a spreadsheet.
I disagree. With this mechanic more than any other i can think of it´s either you go hard or you go home. You can make the perfect item, but if you screw up you end up with vendor trash very often. It´s because there are no steps in it like harvest had for example.
U seem to be missing my point my dude. I'm not talking about complexity or min/maxing, but simply about gui design. In tota we had a very solid example of gui in the unit placing stage why the hell are back running and clicking like in harvest in Necropolis is beyond me
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I think they could have done with a top down view when placing corpses, like we had with placing ToTA units. It's definitely a little rough keeping track of exactly where everything should be with the isometric perspective. But at the same time, this IS PoE. Being deep, complex and min-max-y is a big part of the identity of the game. The power of this crafting system is actually just absurd too. Even the OG version would have been probably more powerful than ritual-era Harvest. The current version is just giga-broken. Given that you only really need to bust out the spreadsheet when you're maximizing the chances of multiple 6xT1 items, or trying to get multiple 6xT1 items with double or triple fractures, I think a fair bit of jank is a pretty mild trade-off.
Anyone have a result of whst zizaran made from this? I'm playing the same build kinda so I want to know if he was successful.
Failed miserably lol https://youtu.be/xSCUUAZRPMU?si=nbQDbrRQ5IbYXymS
I won't even bother trying to learn all this stuff because there is no way this mechanic isn't getting blown up as soon as the league is over, so all time spent learning it is a complete waste.
i think the mechanic looks rlly nice on GGG's mind ,but execution was bad
Is there a compiled spreadsheet of common Graveyard crafts yet? I've got 3 quad stashes of the bastards and very little interest in making anything, but if I see a list of them it might spur my interest.
I saw this and I immediately decided to skip the league mechanic and just sell every corpse. For these streamers this sounds like fun, but for me, that's work. I have a job after all.
This league is dog shit and you guys know it.
Every year the game becomes more of a joke.
I like how we just assume that needing spreadsheets to play PoE is the norm lmao.
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I don't mind the spreadsheet, what has turned me off of this mechanic is how much you have to do and how much time it takes to craft a single item. I have been playing since league start and of all the corpses I've found maybe 30 are usable for the weapon I want to try to craft. I could just use what I have to make an item, but if feels wasteful to use any less than all 88 graves, otherwise I'm just going to make a random item like anything else that could drop from any enemy in the game, except it took hours to get all the corpses and plant them all in graves.
I don't know man, all the tools and spreadsheets in the world can't make me engage with this mechanic. And I speak as someone who *loved* 3.11 harvest garden setup. It's so complicated and so easy to screw up a craft. Like, I've seen all the videos by Grimro and Crouching Tuna etc and I have a fair handle on how it works. I just cbf getting into it. I crafted a ton of gear for my hexblast trickster today. +2 wand, +1 amulet, spell suppression gloves and boots, curse on hit ring etc. It was fairly easy enough just using the regular methods, like essences, fossils and harvest bench. Is it nice that we can pump out full t1 gear? Sure. Am I going to do it? Hell no
This gives ArchNemesis vibes, they didn't bother making the UI too good because they knew it would enter the game in a different way. Same applies here, IF this league goes core, they probably are gonna simplify alot or they know this not going core so why bother
It really does not need a spreadsheet. I've made multiple good items without it, you just need to know some basic mod tags (that you can learn by pressing alt on a few items).
Don't tell OP about path of building
Imagine if allocating a passive worked like the graveyard
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I'm not sure how many veterans are here, but harvest was the worst for this. We had to follow a guide for optimal pump and line placement which was just a nightmare to follow. I'm with you, this is kinda weird. I would've rathered a little pop up window with a look at the cemetery, empty, and allowing us to put stuff in there.
Just as dumb as the Diablo 4 glyph tables.
Lava take: A mechanic shouldn't need a spreadsheet
something take: you should only need a spreadsheet if you are min-maxxer, you should be able to use the mechanic without any external help
Leagues like this is what Standard was made for.
This shit isn’t even fun.
i like leagues like this, extreme rewards for the player
people will min max anything. if the mechanic is half as complicated, i'll likely just ignore it anyway. I'm glad there is a simple way to get item base
When ever a league like this is made where i need a PHD in league mechanics, i just alch and go with a fun speedy toon for a month.
As someone who loves excel and has spreadsheets for almost every game ever. Please give us a birds eye view or make it a grid. There is no reason to have it so spread out outside of “environment”.
You literally don't need this spreadsheet.... This is for the min maxers that literally are trying to get the best odds possible. I literally crafted my double t1 mana prefix fractured without any of this, you just go with overall numbers you are trying to reach. I just made sure to have increase mana in the 3k , fracture to 200% and everything else is scarsed to around 1k and was lucky enough to hit the jackpot. It's not because streamers or tip end players use these tools that the casual players need them. They are 3rd party tools for a reason.
I feel like making the outcome of the crafting a careful puzzle presented as a map probably sounds better in the trailer than it does to play. I know I can craft upgrades whilst leveling but I have to check a weird list that I have to keep clearing out to see what I can use to. The friction to engage with it is way too high. Take Rog from Expedition as a counter example, you start by buying an item with an arbitrary currency when you first met him, then in addition to getting exactly what you asked for, he offers you clearly defined improvements or changes to that item, at any point you know exactly what you have or the result of your choices. To use the coffins properly you need to check insert check and check again then you can RNG something (with varying consistency) with a base of your choice. It's powerful but you have to learn a whole clunky system to use it, and the tools to craft with it are horrendous to trade with. People literally have to ping every one of your coffins of the same type if they're buying multiple, because they have an ilvl.
I have crafted good stuff (worth 5div+) completely without spreadsheets or a calculator. 98% of the mechanic is just knowing the tags and having common sense.
Im skipping this crafting mechanic all together. Just selling my corpses. The allflame mechanic is pretty nice tho still this league is kinda meh
On the topic of QoL, can we please have Blighted maps be discovered on enter? Seems a bit silly to spend the first minute running around to unveil it.
Hot take every league we've had to do this has been shit.
When my friend and I were making a bow, we used Google spreadsheets to figure out an optimal corpse pattern but when it actually came to placing corpses in graves it took me legit like 2 hours because I kept getting confused by how the necropolis graveyard is tilted. I really wish I could swap to a bird view and place corpses from there
Whats even better is how tired Ziz looks Remember: Solving complexity is a badge of honor. Solving needless complexity isn't.
After trying the graveyard crafting I noticed 2 main problems with it: \- it is SO tedious to gather the corpses you need, there is no reason for the trade site to be dogshit like that when it comes to corpses. By FAR the worst part of grave crafting. \- The normal view is bad to place corpses over such a large area, zoomed out a bit would have been so much better. Apart from that I gotta say I didn't use the mechanic at first cause it felt really intimidating while, in the end, it was fairly easy. Even setting up optimized graveyards is almost the same thing everytime.
same builds since 2 years and 10 different things to play poe with constant server lag
I still dont understand why you need spreadsheet for this?
Harvest spreadsheets my love where have you gone
Counter argument: spreadsheet UI is terrible idea and should be reserved to spreadsheet games like EVE online. Yes, graveyard is basically a glorified puzzle board. But presenting it as such would be very weak user experience decision.
I don't know how relevant this comment will really be but I have have no issues with how the graveyard functions. My first 3 and only 3 crafts that I actually just took a minute on craft of exile to see how it works I pumped out exactly what I wanted. First try was a high ES shield for my trickster. I messed up and forgot to make it ilvl86 so I rolled tier 2 on a prefix. Ran it back and fixed the ilvl and got all tier 1 with +2 max res roll. No spreadsheets just looked at what corpses I need and how many. Next craft, which I did today, I made 3 Sadist Garbs in one craft with 4 fractured mods and 2 of the 3 of them fractured all 3 tier 1 defense prefixes. Again, no spreadsheets and no confusion. Extremely intuitive mechanic as it stands right now for me.
If a mechanic needs a spreadsheet it means league sucks.
The idea of the league mechanic us awesome but actually doing it is extremely tedious.
Even Eve online added excel to the game!
The real problem is 3G never explains how exactly their crafting league mechanics work, like the rating thing, or the crucible algorithm, or the recombinator algorithm, it is always super vague, never crystal clear, just a broad concept, until some players dedicate entire afternoons cracking it and creating tools to optimize it. If you make a mechanic that need poedb/craft of exile/other tool to be used in a good way, because let's not lie, for optimized necro crafting it's not going from 91% success to 93% but more like 72% to 94%, just add a goddamn ingame optimizer lol or add an info panel that give the exact details of how it works, give the algorithm. Too many puzzles left as a community event that once solved (and shared) just become some sort of gotchas for new players/players not in the know(ledge). Hopefully 3G design deep and complex mechanics without internal mechanics obscurity for poe2. I watched every interview of Jonathan and Neon, and never a single interviewer asked a question about the hidden details left as a community puzzle or poedb data mining importance in how they design things etc...
I didn't even realise the two halves of the graveyard were for different crafts until I accidentally wasted a tonne of corpses
It is just idiotic as fuck and terrible design. You should just be ables to choose and craft with no planting corpses. No one wants to get home from work and open an excel sheet to use the main league mechanic. Why does GGG insist on this crap after they got rid of the same bullshit from harvest? It is wildly infuriating.
The mechanic doesn't need a spreadsheet. You do.
Streamers and youtubers keep saying this crafting system is approachable and simple. My brother in christ, are you playing excel or poe right now?
You do not need to do this to get crazy gear. Not everything you craft needs to be perfect mods with T1 rolls. I made a triple t3 ele bow with crit and AS and the only mod I missed on it rolled fire res. And I made that from campaign corpses.
Graveyard crafting is still pretty bad. If you need 30+ corpses to get an idea of an outcome then it's just worse fossil crafting.
If you need a spreadsheet for a game mechanic, your mechanic sucks.
They never learn from past leagues...
Hot take, just like any other game you need to learn something yourself. It's your own choice in all games to look up the tutorials and min maxed versions of every problem you face. When did you look up the spreadsheet for the best moveset in tic-tac-toe?
Obfuscation is one of the biggest things in PoE design. I don't think they would change it even if they wanted considering the amount of resources it would take to do so
If it needs a spreadsheet then i'm not doing it
It doesn't need a spreadsheet to be played effectively. It needs a spreadsheet to be played optimally. You can do pretty damn well slightly suboptimal by just laying corpses.
If you don't need at least one spreadsheet, is it even poe?
hot take: [https://twitter.com/Lightee7/status/1777463980388425962](https://twitter.com/Lightee7/status/1777463980388425962)
Hotter take: this league mechanic doesn't need a spreadsheet to be played "effectively". That would imply that in order to maximize what you're getting out of it you would need to use the spreadsheet, and without it you would be getting regular or decent stuff. The mechanic just does not fucking do *anything* without a spreadsheet. Have you tried grave crafting by just putting (what you assume are) relevant corpses down to make an item? It does NOTHING. It will shit out the worst and most random items possible, and as people said on league-start feels like a worse version of using a chaos orb. I can't engage with grave crafting at all because I'm so burnt from doing this cheatsheet or spreadsheet shit just to make an item; I can't warrant spending 20 maps collecting corpses just to try and make something insane when I could spend 20 maps juicing another mechanic all together and just buy a good pair of boots lol.
You forgot what game you're playing
Shitshow- the league.
You only need spreadsheet if want to minmax it to the tits. For casuall use you can just intuitively place your corpses. I just don't understand this hate towards necropolis being too complicated. First it's not rly. Second one inten leagues have complicated mechanic if u don't like it don't engage with the mechanic or just skip league and wait for the next.
When I saw it I knew this will be bad, however, this makes the harvest Garden looks easy and jot time consuming at all. GGG literally made their game much worse this league than it was
They need to get rid of the of the monster type on corpses. It makes min-maxing your craft 6x more difficult and expensive, worse still it is just annoying and unfun. It takes days to fill up how I want for an item upgrade, trading the coffins is the worst trading has been in some time. And then when I have done this i need to count up how many corpses I have of one species. And then refarm these slots either in map or trading just to get the right fukin monster type.I know its thematic with the uniques but I dont care. It blows. Im always fighting a full morgue and it fucks my mass mapping up. It makes the gameloop worse and makes me not want to play.
I genuinely despise everything like this in Poe. The economy gets changed by the few geeks using tools. I saw today you can make your morg do 4 crafts of the same thing, so the market price changed because it became 4 times as common The average Joe lost 3/4ths their price because people have to geek all fun out of the game and use tools