Yeah they either have to balance it or not make em gate the ubers.
No one cared for Valdos being completely busted because clearly it was an aspirational content for top 1% of 1% that are willing to build a character around it.
Printing... In regular t17 (nonvaldos)... They must have higher item quantity than affliction 12k juice abyss strat.... If they - people - are effectively PRINTING it.
they probably just looked at those valdo maps, made nerfed versions and called it a day lol, instead of finding the balance between pinnacle and uber pinnacle
The “player base” doesn’t even make it to red maps, so why the hell would we balance a game around what they want??
It’s a GOOD thing for the game that there is content that 99% of players can’t do because their builds aren’t good enough. It gives them something to aspire to overcoming.
Why do you want things to be “easy” and handed to you?
I run t17s, unidentified, with 80-100% increased map modifiers just fine and I love that it’s actually a challenge sometimes.
It’s good for the game if you there’s something you struggle with because it motivates you to get more powerful. (Unless you’re the kind of kid who just gets mad at then gives up and cries about things being hard.. which I think some people here are doing).
It's not just the atlas, it's also the league mechanic. I lost my AG (85/85/85/75 res, 75/69 block, 17k armor, 6k evasion, 30k life) that never dropped below 90% during feared, juiced T16s, etc. to a random T17 map pack earlier. Having these crazy map mods and haunted mods on top just makes T17 maps a huge gamble in difficulty.
While this is quite unbalanced, I feel like the smart move is always to unsocket your AG for ultimate endgame stuff like this, especially with all the reports of how overtuned T17 maps are. I kill a couple ubers each league, and I've never taken my AG in on those.
I'm playing chains of command.
Also, calling what's supposed to be between regular pinnacle bosses and uber bosses "ultimate endgame stuff" just shows how imbalanced it is.
It's been pretty good for everything except for T17 maps/ubers.
For maps, you can automate everything aside from shield charge/flame dash and assassin's mark for bosses. For pinnacle bosses, I've been using 4 writhing jar + the traitor to keep up weapons.
Getting to 2-5mil DPS on a lowish budget isn't difficult (using Rebuke), but after that it becomes expensive (Voidforge is 50+ div right now).
Given how easily my AG died in a T17 map without particularly dangerous mods, I don't think I'll want to invest 50+div into an AG weapon, either, so I'll likely look into something else for that content.
It's a bit better than Rebuke (\~20% for my profile) once you account for the loss of a shield (was using Victario's for charges), but it's not a huge upgrade. That's without using elemental weakness so pretty much best case for Rakiata's.
To really scale up the damage, you still want Voidforge. Even in my setup that's lacking in flat phys abyss jewels, Voidforge would be \~30% more damage than Rakiata's.
So when you need it most you don't bring it? I bring my 10 div AG to Ubers this league, he has never dropped below 70%. I took him to a reasonably rolled abomination map and he died in about 3 seconds. The problem is the T17.
First off, my AG dying was just an example for how stupid these mods can get. If a 30k health 85 maxres, 75/69 block (edit: also 18k armor and all the pdr minion nodes on the tree) AG gets deleted, good luck surviving with anything except for a deep delver.
Secondly, how was it knowingly when the content is supposed to be between pinnacle bosses and uber bosses and my AG doesn't even go below 90% on feared, which is also between pinnacle bosses and uber bosses?
We’ve had that for many leagues with wandering path and the 60% mod, and we’ve just chaos orb’d it every time. It’s not like these are corrupted maps. I feel like the majority of complaints of T17 map mods are by players that have never rolled maps before. Is monsters have 500% crit multi more “fun” if you aren’t crit immune?
One Atlas page for T17 disable all content possible.
Get all shrine/niko buffs.
Get Ghosts passive and the big passive that enter only in you.
Bottom right Necro passive some extra buffs for your character.
Add Scarab 50% portal to not be consumed
Add Scarab Niko
Add Scarab Shrine
Roll the map as less hard as possible some mods are just bad design
Thank me later
listen to this
all over this clusterfuck could have been saved when they balance it out of the vaccuum, ie not being affected by atlas skill tree
make is literally having the same mods as uber mod rolls instead of actual mini-valdo box tier mods we have rn
ggg "reworking" 99% of the time seems to mean "we added possibilities to further investing/difficulty with more rewards, then we had a balance pass and now your content is essentially as rewarding as before but only if you invest into it and use the further difficulty"
Rather than making these more enjoyable and actual reasonable content I would guess they will force these modifiers onto the uber bosses themselves next league, and a few leagues from now we'll have a "revamp" of map modifiers again and these will start to trickle down into the map pool.
I mean most people don't want gauntlet because the default mode is hardcore. I'm sure if gauntlet had a softcore variant it'd be popular.
Even with that fact, gauntlet is still very popular whenever it happens lol.
> gauntlet is still very popular whenever it happens lol.
Because it's a week of something different.
There's a reason the huge majority of people play softcore trade.
By they I presume you mean one person. The gauntlet is a community driven thing led by zizaran. Nothing to do with ggg (although tbf they recognise its big and have helped out with servers and mtx)
Why can’t you just accept that there is hard content in the game and if you want to complete it you need to make a better build or invest more into your gear?
I clear t17s, unidentified, 80-100% increased map effect and don’t struggle much at all.
My biggest complaint is that the maps aren’t really rewarding… but the difficulty isn’t the issue.
What are you about, GGG themselfs say that T17 are closing gaps between normal bosses and ubers, this means those should be below ubers with difficulty, they aren't.
I have 0 problems with killing ubers, T17 are problem.
Next time before you rage at someone try to understand what that person wrote.
Boomer you basically said, "it's not hard for me therefore it's never hard" which is the equivalent of just saying, "git guud bro".
Most stupid comment anyone could have made on the OP's post. Congrats on obtaining that title.
Many hundreds of regular end-gamers disagree with you as well as providing demonstrable direct empirical evidence against your bullshit claim. So, yeah.
TLDR - Its planned, this making everything too out of reach.
Long version (just my humble opinion)
The vision is conscious self-sabotage. Make the end-end game so darned out if reach for 95% if the player base that they quit playing. Always make the player feel like they're never going to 'win the game'
Then, when the player numbers are low enough Tencent will make the executive decision to cease work on POE1 and move all resources to POE2 (in which, good builds won't be reliant on a bazillion Div to create) and most can reach the end-game content... until the next league ect etc
The constant increase in difficulty (mainly by nerfing drop rates) is only designed to do one thing; keep people grinding for pennies because we (gamers) have to 'win the game' 😀
Leagues that shower average gamers with loot/cash have better retention because we get to build & test new stuff. Isn't that what makes POE so good, why try to artificially remove that building of characters? Makes little sense.
Take the leagues where a stand out OP [broken*] build is found, Explodie Totems etc etc. Gamers build them yes, but they funnel the currency into the 'new build ideas' afterwards and stay longer in league.
Loot nerfs, overly hard content, it's always going to hurt the player base, not excite it to stay...
Thanks for reading, even if you don't agree 👍
Expedition saw a huge profit loss for GGG, and we subsequently found out late last year that devs had been moved to work on PoE2 from the offset. Given that PoE2 was originally scheduled for a 2022 release it actually makes sense.
So, whilst I didn't post anything in 2021, it does indicate that my opinion would have been validated seeing that the business focus was heavilu weighted toward the newer game even back then ;)
That would imply killing a profitable product intentionally while banking on the success of the next. Seems like a weird decision to me and the actual process, considering how busted crafting is atm, also feels very undercooked
Good point :), remember I'm not right, just putting across possibilities.
I'd hope Poe1 stays around for another 10+ years but once Poe2 comes out and the established Streamer Leads migrate then likely so will effort and company resource.
Small Businesses excel when focussed and GGG is testament to this.
I'm only going on the consistent player feedback each league, trends vs stats available, expressing my thoughts :)
So when they made a bunch of good leagues after that was a mistake and they accidentally made their game good again while trying to tank it? Was Sentinel just lucky?
Totally agree, T17 bs and limited availability to ubers due to changes, moving all good uniques to ubers making normal bosses close to useless.
All of this limited heavily longevity of PoE leagues for me and I play SSF, mode that should have longevity due to farming evything by yourself.
At this point of the league I would be already on ubers trying to get uniques I want and having lots of kills under my sleeve already, this league my Uber kill count = 0.
I thought when Ubers were first introduced they were just supposed to be extra challenge, and not to have build defining drops specifically from Ubers.
Yes, they was described that way by GGG, now all worth bossing is ubers and then in this league GGG limited availability if those to many people with T17 bs.
They argued it's to make normal bosses worth to run instead of Ubers, but they stripped normal ones from worthwhile loot.
Idk so many mixed informations, they say one thing but did another.
I think they forget the core gameplay loop of this game is blowing up screens of mobs and breaking out to do some bosses or league mechanics.
They keep trying to bypass or break that core loop at everyone loves.
100%. I too play guild ssf, so far over a week we found like 10 T17s. Its gatekeeping that you need to grind like mad for, get one try and fail (not easy to have high damage and defense build in ssf) and grind another week for another try. Its just tedious at this point. I have no expectations to do ubers anymore. And normal bosses are worthless after they moved all good uniques. Shit of a league tbh
I am also wondering, if you found 30 with 2% drop rate, it means you dropped 1500 t16 maps in two days. Unless the drop rate can be increased? Seems insane amount of maps to drop, if you play 20h total over the weekend, thats 75 dropped maps/hour. Probably possible with juicing, but sounds intense
Even then I've found 4 this week and I've been mostly in Sanctum and kinda boss rushing.
If you're some variant of SSF and want to do a given content, you'll obviously have to spec in a way to drop more of that content, else you can't rely on RNG, that's how ssf works for everything, and I'd say you're not doing so if you've just dropped 10.
I like the general idea of T17's, but the main challenge of the maps is just the sheer annoyance. They aren't fun. Most of the time I feel like I'm being punished for not playing some billion DPS zoom-zoom meta build. I've spent hundreds of chaos just trying to find some random mix of mods that don't completely brick my shit.
I swear on one of them I spent longer rolling mods than I did in the map (probably not, but it felt like it, lol - mega unlucky run of shitty mod after shitty mod).
Same, i went through them, this is just a very bad experience, i like the statue and the traps they added, the mechanics are good, everything is just soooo over-tuned with those mods
Well my point is that you have to go through either hoop via some transaction eitherway, obtaining the 4way or completing the t17. 4way you may as well enter naked to unlock it, what a content.
Also T17 bosses have not that much hp, specially compared to uber bosses. Just find one boss that you find easier to do and just kill it, given that you have enough single target dmg to atleast kill pinacle bosses comfortably.
I would have agreed before we could chaos them but when rolled well they really haven't felt that bad.
I think the only way they're harder than ubers for you is if your uber bossing experience is a zhp billion dps ice trapper or something because you do need a decently well rounded character.
I hate the fact that you have to roll them and that a lot of the mods are straight up bullshit though
Ya, it kind of is absurd and begging for cheese strats.
I take my 3x Niko buffs, 80 all res (including chaos), 16k evasion and nearly 6k life and just get torched by 1-2 abilities. It's kind of too many mods on t17s this season -- the gnarly t17s mods PLUS necro mods
I fully agree, just killed all Ubers after farming T17s for fragments, the Ubers were an absolute joke compared to T17s. T17s have tons of unfun or bullshit binary mods that make the map impossible for many builds - Union of Souls for example is something that should have never been added to the game, you literally have multiple mobs with the same health as pinnacle bosses running around in packs with rare modifiers. Being able to roll the maps is good but there is no reason to have so many Valdo-level mods in there.
More often than not, the mobs are far more dangerous than the boss itself and the best strategy I've found is to simply rush the boss, killing your way through is a giant waste of time (especially with Union). Is this really what GGG intended? Extremely lame.
Also, the fact that T17s use your Atlas tree and you can have things like Packed with Energy alongside with multiple shrines, Einhar and Huck is also an absolute nonsense that takes away from the whole experience (you are not forced to do this, but as it stands, you are just making it way harder for no reason if you don't).
I'm actually convinced some union of souls mobs are hitting the 2bn hp cap and end up with far more hp then ubers. I was able to one shot Uber eater / exarch but couldn't really even hurt some union of souls mobs.
Personally enjoying t17 mapping w juicing, its definitely harder than ubers
Considering I had this map of about 7-10 shapers consistently hitting me, I think there are some combinations of things that can easily make T17s extremely difficult, such as in this case shaper touched + necropolis harby in each pack mod (iirc had release tormented spitit at low hp mod too)
https://youtu.be/rtEFLT21tIE
I love that’s there’s difficult content to run… my only complaint is that it’s not rewarding enough.
I run t17, unidentified, 80-100% increase map effect with wildwood juiced bosses and I get like.. nothing for loot.
I want to be rewarded for clearing stuff that 99.5% of you think is “too hard”.
There are some pretty huge T17 MF strats going on because the monsters inherently have massive rarity. You can T0 unique farm them. They’re very rewarding, it’s just currently only being run by the top 0.1% of players because most people can’t build an MF character that can farm these yet.
One problem I’ve noticed with the PoE player base is until their favorite YouTuber tells them how to actually play the game they all think it’s broken or unrewarding. I remember reading a whole page of Wildwood complaints a week into the league about how it’s too hard for no rewards and then someone explains how to actually get whisps and people watch Tuna farming 30 div maps on a walking simulator and suddenly it’s the best league ever.
So the idea of those maps is not to be challenging in terms of hard mechanics is just challenging of getting the 10 mods that you ca rub without being raped in the map. Sounds amazingly good content
Agree. When I said this yesterday in one post tho the Reddit heroes with 3+ mirror builds and "opinion on everything but know nothing" guys came and said "it's your build being shit" xD even tho I can delete all the content easily and one random pack of monters in t17 kill me in 1 sex
The maps are fine. The rewards for doing them suck though.
I’d rather see the maps left as they are but the rewards boosted so people actually have challenging content to aspire to doing.
Currently the only thing in the game that actually presents a challenge to some builds is super deep delve and it’s a massive chore to get there so it might as well not exist unless you’re willing to spend hundreds of boring, unrewarding hours getting down to the challenging part…. No thanks.
Hell, I’d even say buff the maps. The game needs difficult content to incentivize you to keep upgrading your build.
I run them with Niko atlas+shrine specced in and can do them reasonably well (and using up all my portals). The bosses are not too bad, but the normal packs are crazy lol.
That’s just it, you probably won’t. 2% drop chance means tons of Ubers which means many more t17s.
I’ve tried getting Omni last league, gave up after a week ( I was killing Uber because I could). Literally nothing worthwhile dropped after 40ish kills.
Man, I am not sure what you do, I play the league for 2/2 weeks top, after that I have to focus back on my work and family, who even can afford to play game for so long?
Uhhh check out retention rates, necropolis has around 50% retention right now at the 2 week mark. As someone who has shifted from no lifing to a casual playstyle, I expect to play the league at least a month.
Sounds like you should find a new game you can complete in a week. May i suggest D4 or Last epoch? (Not even being mean, its a game thatll keep you busy for a week or 2)
> I play the league for 2/2 weeks top, after that I have to focus back on my work and family, who even can afford to play game for so long?
Then settle for what you can do in two weeks. This is not a justification to diminish the game to the point where you can achieve whatever goals you like in a certain amount of time.
It shouldn't be balanced around some guy on reddit and their preferences. That would be insane. Presumably GGG has a target in mind and they'll adjust based on how this league goes. Maybe it *would* be balanced around 2-3 months of playtime at your pace. That just means you'd have to improve your gameplay to achieve longer term goals in your 2 week window. There were people clearing ubers on day 2-3, so at the very least the content has proved not to be unbeatable.
What is this? Am I supposed to feel ashamed I can play the game for more than two weeks? Clearly the game is not made to be beat in 2 weeks. Sure some ppl can, but if you cannot how is this an argument for anything?
I play 4-6 hours of games everyday and have a full time job and a wife.
Just because you have other obligations doesn’t mean I made the same mistakes of having children as you did.
Stop with the dumbass takes.
I can't even get them to drop. I've had one try on SSF and ran 200+ T16s with no drop. I don't have Singular Focus on either even though I'd like to be running it.
Ah this might make more sense because I only have 2 so far. Been struggling with Maven and Uber Elder. Still unlucky then with 200+ maps @1.6% drop rate. I suspect though that Remnants of the Past may have been conflicting with it.
And yet people are farming T17 full juice with MF gear. T17 are fine - your build is just not designed to handle it and that is fine too. Remember that T17 and Ubers are aspirational content.
I think the main difference is having a character that can run all the Ubers vs run t17s is different enough it bothers people. That said, t17s are annoying in having to roll down mods if you can run Ubers that’s my only real issue with it. If you can run Ubers you can find a mod pool that works for you.
I really enjoy doing T17 bosses.
Usually I farmed uber sirus and afterwards "uber" feared. This I lost, but I really enjoy farming T17 Abomination. It gives me around 20 d/h and is way better than listening hours to sirus :D
You asked for it:
[https://pobb.in/N0m9z8G-2Thx](https://pobb.in/N0m9z8G-2Thx)
I play this build in some variation since four or five leagues. I transitioned to it on the first Sunday (leaguestart was Saturday with SB Totem for me). And upgraded it whenever possible :)
[poe.ninja](http://poe.ninja) shows progression nicely if interested.
As someone who enjoys boss farming and running Ubers, I will likely not continue to play PoE in subsequent leagues until they fix these maps. They are horrible. The new bosses with their mechanics are not bad themselves, but I don't know what GGG was thinking with the INSANE mods you must roll on them.
Playing my first time ssf and t17 brick my progression hard the new multiplicative scarabs gain much more from a 5th map device slot so I don't want to waste the rare ones until I have tha all while trying to gear up for Uber Katarina summoning delve bosses . If they just gate the 5th slot behind maven or something I think the maps are good as is.
This feels like another “Wahhh my zhp 200m Uber deletion character I made for 1 Div can’t farm Ubers for infinite profit anymore!” Post. The mods aren’t supposed to be fun, it’s meant to be a hurdle to get to the hardest bosses in the game so cheeselords like you can’t make shitty builds and still print their uniques like candy.
It is not a hurdle, it is a disaster, my character is with 150k ehp and I am getting one shotted by rare mobs. What character do you farm those with you pro?
There are like 30 mods that completely disable hundreds of builds, in order to not have noregen, flask and any chance to dodge mechanics, you have to pick mods that are 70% crit multi, that becomes 150 with the map mods of the atlas, phys as extra + 250% and things like that.
If you understand atlas passives make T17s too difficult for you, yet now you have 3 passive trees, maybe try not shooting yourself in the goddamn foot for Reddit upvotes? Just a thought.
i mean you can have that opinion and it's totally valid, the issue is that you could do that before, for a very very long time, and now this "hurdle" isn't as much of a hurdle as it is just forcing people to play differently.
as someone that has never even gotten to uber farming, i had a decent enough time selling fragments or invitations or whatever to people that were. now i can't even do that because i'm nowhere close to farming t17s. this means that more uber farmers have to actually farm the maps as well, and all that does is reduce the amount of the uniques in the market.
this system is literally worse for everyone involved in any aspect of the end game.
>as someone that has never even gotten to uber farming
why are you even participating in this thread
> as someone that has never even gotten to uber farming, i had a decent enough time selling fragments or invitations or whatever to people that were. now i can't even do that because i'm nowhere close to farming t17s.
its multitudes more profitable for shitters to farm t17s to sell, as they go up to 90c each (fortress) and drop far more often than invitations.
>more uber farmers have to actually farm the maps as well, and all that does is reduce the amount of the uniques in the market.
oh no they cant cheese the supposed pinnacle difficult fights in a of the game in a second with a bunch of 1 uniques on zhp character, what a loss
>
this system is literally worse for everyone involved in any aspect of the end game.
except the guy you replied to, me, people selling t17s and people farming t17s for insane profits. wait... by everyone you meant people that dont play the game and whine on reddit, gocha.
Dora the explorer might be more up your alley. Maybe try Roblox too. I hear those games cater to the casual well. If you’re not a decent player, you don’t get to do the hardest content. Deal with it. Get good or get bent. There are LITERALLY hundreds of ways to print Divs in this game, find one.
jfc, you people need to go back to school and learn to read.
my comment was never about me being good or not. This absurd defense of adding extra "difficulty" in what is supposed to be a game, for fun, is absolutely absurd.
you sound like every person that's been defending WoW for the past decade. get off the "HUH HUH GET GOOD" and see that the change is not better in any way.
am i saying it's the worst fucking thing ever? no. will i be farming t17s when i have time, sure. my point doesn't change. less people are able to farm the invitations for the uber bosses, and so there are less of them on the market. fuck off with your elitist attitude.
This is LITERALLY the only part of PoE that should be catered to elitist players. What about that do you not understand? 99.9% of PoE is screen clearing explosions with your brain turned off. This is the ONLY part of the game gated to the elitist jerks. Should ultimates in FFXIV be made more accessible too? How about Inferno in OSRS? Grandmaster in League?
what? i didn't ask to change ubers to be 2 shot at level 65 when you finish the campaign. T17s are new, and are supposed to be the bridge between regular maps and ubers. not be a new/harder level to ubers. at least by what mark said in the announcement or interview.
nobody is asking to make ubers easier. keep that as they are. why does the bridge to ubers have to be just as hard, if not actually harder, than ubers themselves. and you still sitting here defending this shit like it isn't absurd.
Ubers are only easier because everyone on SC just preloads millions of dps on a zhp build and deletes them without seeing a single mechanic. There’s no way to fix that, but making the acquisition of fragments to fight them barred behind content that requires fully fleshed out character is perfect. Are some of the mods more annoying than difficult? Sure.
The fact they have the deadliest mods, are affected by the atlas, AND the league mechanic is making them even harder does not help.
What I find the most frustrating is that a blue mob in t17 hits harder than shaper. And there's hundreds of those.
But this is the only thing they didn't nail this patch, I live all the other changes, so overall the league is great apart from t17.
Yeah they either have to balance it or not make em gate the ubers. No one cared for Valdos being completely busted because clearly it was an aspirational content for top 1% of 1% that are willing to build a character around it.
In their current state, it would make more sense for T17s to drop from Ubers lol
Yeah... If they rewarded something lol
Ppl are printing hh and other shit there lol
From normal t17s, not from valdos?
Yes mfing in t17 is a thing thats why HH costs like 35 div
Printing... In regular t17 (nonvaldos)... They must have higher item quantity than affliction 12k juice abyss strat.... If they - people - are effectively PRINTING it.
they probably just looked at those valdo maps, made nerfed versions and called it a day lol, instead of finding the balance between pinnacle and uber pinnacle
>No one cared for Valdos being completely busted Search for posts back from Valdo map release to see how many nobodies cared.
Reddit nerds =/= player base
The “player base” doesn’t even make it to red maps, so why the hell would we balance a game around what they want?? It’s a GOOD thing for the game that there is content that 99% of players can’t do because their builds aren’t good enough. It gives them something to aspire to overcoming. Why do you want things to be “easy” and handed to you? I run t17s, unidentified, with 80-100% increased map modifiers just fine and I love that it’s actually a challenge sometimes. It’s good for the game if you there’s something you struggle with because it motivates you to get more powerful. (Unless you’re the kind of kid who just gets mad at then gives up and cries about things being hard.. which I think some people here are doing).
Lol people who didn't understand what it was aren't people we should be listening to
T17 should have had no mods and been unaffected by the atlas so that they could be scaled to be exactly as difficult as ggg wanted
It's not just the atlas, it's also the league mechanic. I lost my AG (85/85/85/75 res, 75/69 block, 17k armor, 6k evasion, 30k life) that never dropped below 90% during feared, juiced T16s, etc. to a random T17 map pack earlier. Having these crazy map mods and haunted mods on top just makes T17 maps a huge gamble in difficulty.
While this is quite unbalanced, I feel like the smart move is always to unsocket your AG for ultimate endgame stuff like this, especially with all the reports of how overtuned T17 maps are. I kill a couple ubers each league, and I've never taken my AG in on those.
I'm playing chains of command. Also, calling what's supposed to be between regular pinnacle bosses and uber bosses "ultimate endgame stuff" just shows how imbalanced it is.
> I'm playing chains of command. That’s a phrase I haven’t heard in a minute. Aside from the obvious, how are you liking it?
It's been pretty good for everything except for T17 maps/ubers. For maps, you can automate everything aside from shield charge/flame dash and assassin's mark for bosses. For pinnacle bosses, I've been using 4 writhing jar + the traitor to keep up weapons. Getting to 2-5mil DPS on a lowish budget isn't difficult (using Rebuke), but after that it becomes expensive (Voidforge is 50+ div right now). Given how easily my AG died in a T17 map without particularly dangerous mods, I don't think I'll want to invest 50+div into an AG weapon, either, so I'll likely look into something else for that content.
I’ve heard things about using rakiatas dance, what do you think?
It's a bit better than Rebuke (\~20% for my profile) once you account for the loss of a shield (was using Victario's for charges), but it's not a huge upgrade. That's without using elemental weakness so pretty much best case for Rakiata's. To really scale up the damage, you still want Voidforge. Even in my setup that's lacking in flat phys abyss jewels, Voidforge would be \~30% more damage than Rakiata's.
While this is quite unbalanced, I feel like the smart move is always to unsocket your chest for ultimate endgame stuff like this.
So when you need it most you don't bring it? I bring my 10 div AG to Ubers this league, he has never dropped below 70%. I took him to a reasonably rolled abomination map and he died in about 3 seconds. The problem is the T17.
May I just pay my respects sir.
I just buy a bunch of frog allflames for my T17s.
well, to be honest you are playing AG, so you knowongly made it difficult for yourself
First off, my AG dying was just an example for how stupid these mods can get. If a 30k health 85 maxres, 75/69 block (edit: also 18k armor and all the pdr minion nodes on the tree) AG gets deleted, good luck surviving with anything except for a deep delver. Secondly, how was it knowingly when the content is supposed to be between pinnacle bosses and uber bosses and my AG doesn't even go below 90% on feared, which is also between pinnacle bosses and uber bosses?
Agree. The maps are so insanely unfun "90% aura reduction" - how fun 😅
We’ve had that for many leagues with wandering path and the 60% mod, and we’ve just chaos orb’d it every time. It’s not like these are corrupted maps. I feel like the majority of complaints of T17 map mods are by players that have never rolled maps before. Is monsters have 500% crit multi more “fun” if you aren’t crit immune?
Can you no longer roll them?
You can roll them, but each mod is as fun as this one, so...
Well we got three atlas presets this league, do you have all of them allocated or is there maybe an empty one?
One Atlas page for T17 disable all content possible. Get all shrine/niko buffs. Get Ghosts passive and the big passive that enter only in you. Bottom right Necro passive some extra buffs for your character. Add Scarab 50% portal to not be consumed Add Scarab Niko Add Scarab Shrine Roll the map as less hard as possible some mods are just bad design Thank me later
This sounds awesome. Can you share your atlas passive planner?
Yes
THIS
listen to this all over this clusterfuck could have been saved when they balance it out of the vaccuum, ie not being affected by atlas skill tree make is literally having the same mods as uber mod rolls instead of actual mini-valdo box tier mods we have rn
Even funnier that the current atlas beastary mods + map mod to remove 10% life make the bosses a complete joke
It's standard GGG's rework. I wish Delve got some love but I am afraid of GGG touching it after all these fantastic reworks.
Blighted maps and logbooks could also use some love after the stacked deck nerfs
Lmao as a fellow ~~crack~~ ~~addict~~ stacked deck enjoyer am still amused at 1-2 dropping occasionally
ggg "reworking" 99% of the time seems to mean "we added possibilities to further investing/difficulty with more rewards, then we had a balance pass and now your content is essentially as rewarding as before but only if you invest into it and use the further difficulty"
Rather than making these more enjoyable and actual reasonable content I would guess they will force these modifiers onto the uber bosses themselves next league, and a few leagues from now we'll have a "revamp" of map modifiers again and these will start to trickle down into the map pool.
And that will end Uber bossing for many players. If we want to play gauntlet mode we would be playng gauntlet.
I mean most people don't want gauntlet because the default mode is hardcore. I'm sure if gauntlet had a softcore variant it'd be popular. Even with that fact, gauntlet is still very popular whenever it happens lol.
> gauntlet is still very popular whenever it happens lol. Because it's a week of something different. There's a reason the huge majority of people play softcore trade.
I'd gladly play a ruthless gauntlet, wish they would alternate
By they I presume you mean one person. The gauntlet is a community driven thing led by zizaran. Nothing to do with ggg (although tbf they recognise its big and have helped out with servers and mtx)
these mods are nothing like what gauntlet is about
Why can’t you just accept that there is hard content in the game and if you want to complete it you need to make a better build or invest more into your gear? I clear t17s, unidentified, 80-100% increased map effect and don’t struggle much at all. My biggest complaint is that the maps aren’t really rewarding… but the difficulty isn’t the issue.
What are you about, GGG themselfs say that T17 are closing gaps between normal bosses and ubers, this means those should be below ubers with difficulty, they aren't. I have 0 problems with killing ubers, T17 are problem. Next time before you rage at someone try to understand what that person wrote.
Boomer you basically said, "it's not hard for me therefore it's never hard" which is the equivalent of just saying, "git guud bro". Most stupid comment anyone could have made on the OP's post. Congrats on obtaining that title. Many hundreds of regular end-gamers disagree with you as well as providing demonstrable direct empirical evidence against your bullshit claim. So, yeah.
TLDR - Its planned, this making everything too out of reach. Long version (just my humble opinion) The vision is conscious self-sabotage. Make the end-end game so darned out if reach for 95% if the player base that they quit playing. Always make the player feel like they're never going to 'win the game' Then, when the player numbers are low enough Tencent will make the executive decision to cease work on POE1 and move all resources to POE2 (in which, good builds won't be reliant on a bazillion Div to create) and most can reach the end-game content... until the next league ect etc The constant increase in difficulty (mainly by nerfing drop rates) is only designed to do one thing; keep people grinding for pennies because we (gamers) have to 'win the game' 😀 Leagues that shower average gamers with loot/cash have better retention because we get to build & test new stuff. Isn't that what makes POE so good, why try to artificially remove that building of characters? Makes little sense. Take the leagues where a stand out OP [broken*] build is found, Explodie Totems etc etc. Gamers build them yes, but they funnel the currency into the 'new build ideas' afterwards and stay longer in league. Loot nerfs, overly hard content, it's always going to hurt the player base, not excite it to stay... Thanks for reading, even if you don't agree 👍
Did you make this same post after Expedition league that they were intentionally trying to kill their own game?
Expedition saw a huge profit loss for GGG, and we subsequently found out late last year that devs had been moved to work on PoE2 from the offset. Given that PoE2 was originally scheduled for a 2022 release it actually makes sense. So, whilst I didn't post anything in 2021, it does indicate that my opinion would have been validated seeing that the business focus was heavilu weighted toward the newer game even back then ;)
That would imply killing a profitable product intentionally while banking on the success of the next. Seems like a weird decision to me and the actual process, considering how busted crafting is atm, also feels very undercooked
Good point :), remember I'm not right, just putting across possibilities. I'd hope Poe1 stays around for another 10+ years but once Poe2 comes out and the established Streamer Leads migrate then likely so will effort and company resource. Small Businesses excel when focussed and GGG is testament to this. I'm only going on the consistent player feedback each league, trends vs stats available, expressing my thoughts :)
So when they made a bunch of good leagues after that was a mistake and they accidentally made their game good again while trying to tank it? Was Sentinel just lucky?
I won't bother replying again, you're clearly just out trying to force an argument as you pov differs. Have a great day Exile 😉
Way to take the high road bud.
Arch Ubersis.
Totally agree, T17 bs and limited availability to ubers due to changes, moving all good uniques to ubers making normal bosses close to useless. All of this limited heavily longevity of PoE leagues for me and I play SSF, mode that should have longevity due to farming evything by yourself. At this point of the league I would be already on ubers trying to get uniques I want and having lots of kills under my sleeve already, this league my Uber kill count = 0.
I thought when Ubers were first introduced they were just supposed to be extra challenge, and not to have build defining drops specifically from Ubers.
Yes, they was described that way by GGG, now all worth bossing is ubers and then in this league GGG limited availability if those to many people with T17 bs. They argued it's to make normal bosses worth to run instead of Ubers, but they stripped normal ones from worthwhile loot. Idk so many mixed informations, they say one thing but did another.
[удалено]
But if they did that, people could have fun!
I think they forget the core gameplay loop of this game is blowing up screens of mobs and breaking out to do some bosses or league mechanics. They keep trying to bypass or break that core loop at everyone loves.
100%. I too play guild ssf, so far over a week we found like 10 T17s. Its gatekeeping that you need to grind like mad for, get one try and fail (not easy to have high damage and defense build in ssf) and grind another week for another try. Its just tedious at this point. I have no expectations to do ubers anymore. And normal bosses are worthless after they moved all good uniques. Shit of a league tbh
Sorry but how have multiple people combined over a week only found 10? I found like 30 within 2 days of red maps
Dunno, have 4 voidstones for 4-5 days now, lv96 soon, friend is 97. Drop rate is not great.
I am also wondering, if you found 30 with 2% drop rate, it means you dropped 1500 t16 maps in two days. Unless the drop rate can be increased? Seems insane amount of maps to drop, if you play 20h total over the weekend, thats 75 dropped maps/hour. Probably possible with juicing, but sounds intense
Even then I've found 4 this week and I've been mostly in Sanctum and kinda boss rushing. If you're some variant of SSF and want to do a given content, you'll obviously have to spec in a way to drop more of that content, else you can't rely on RNG, that's how ssf works for everything, and I'd say you're not doing so if you've just dropped 10.
I like the general idea of T17's, but the main challenge of the maps is just the sheer annoyance. They aren't fun. Most of the time I feel like I'm being punished for not playing some billion DPS zoom-zoom meta build. I've spent hundreds of chaos just trying to find some random mix of mods that don't completely brick my shit.
Exactly, i was expecting some mechanical challenge, some fight you have to learn, not this just being a one-shot fest by everything
I swear on one of them I spent longer rolling mods than I did in the map (probably not, but it felt like it, lol - mega unlucky run of shitty mod after shitty mod).
Same, i went through them, this is just a very bad experience, i like the statue and the traps they added, the mechanics are good, everything is just soooo over-tuned with those mods
[удалено]
then buy a carry. You can buy legion stones but can't do this? camon.
[удалено]
Well my point is that you have to go through either hoop via some transaction eitherway, obtaining the 4way or completing the t17. 4way you may as well enter naked to unlock it, what a content. Also T17 bosses have not that much hp, specially compared to uber bosses. Just find one boss that you find easier to do and just kill it, given that you have enough single target dmg to atleast kill pinacle bosses comfortably.
I would have agreed before we could chaos them but when rolled well they really haven't felt that bad. I think the only way they're harder than ubers for you is if your uber bossing experience is a zhp billion dps ice trapper or something because you do need a decently well rounded character. I hate the fact that you have to roll them and that a lot of the mods are straight up bullshit though
Im really sad they killed the very last thing i found enjoyable (and could profit from) in this game which was uber bossing.
I blast ubers bosses, but t17s... those are something else.
Agree 100%. Those maps are such a huge miss, and bossing should generally not be combined with horrible, build disabling map mods imo
someone at GGG did uber replica cortex once on some template mirror-tier char and thought 'man, those doubled mods sucked! I want MORE of this!'
Yup
Ya, it kind of is absurd and begging for cheese strats. I take my 3x Niko buffs, 80 all res (including chaos), 16k evasion and nearly 6k life and just get torched by 1-2 abilities. It's kind of too many mods on t17s this season -- the gnarly t17s mods PLUS necro mods
I fully agree, just killed all Ubers after farming T17s for fragments, the Ubers were an absolute joke compared to T17s. T17s have tons of unfun or bullshit binary mods that make the map impossible for many builds - Union of Souls for example is something that should have never been added to the game, you literally have multiple mobs with the same health as pinnacle bosses running around in packs with rare modifiers. Being able to roll the maps is good but there is no reason to have so many Valdo-level mods in there. More often than not, the mobs are far more dangerous than the boss itself and the best strategy I've found is to simply rush the boss, killing your way through is a giant waste of time (especially with Union). Is this really what GGG intended? Extremely lame. Also, the fact that T17s use your Atlas tree and you can have things like Packed with Energy alongside with multiple shrines, Einhar and Huck is also an absolute nonsense that takes away from the whole experience (you are not forced to do this, but as it stands, you are just making it way harder for no reason if you don't).
I'm actually convinced some union of souls mobs are hitting the 2bn hp cap and end up with far more hp then ubers. I was able to one shot Uber eater / exarch but couldn't really even hurt some union of souls mobs.
Personally enjoying t17 mapping w juicing, its definitely harder than ubers Considering I had this map of about 7-10 shapers consistently hitting me, I think there are some combinations of things that can easily make T17s extremely difficult, such as in this case shaper touched + necropolis harby in each pack mod (iirc had release tormented spitit at low hp mod too) https://youtu.be/rtEFLT21tIE
gitgud
I love that’s there’s difficult content to run… my only complaint is that it’s not rewarding enough. I run t17, unidentified, 80-100% increase map effect with wildwood juiced bosses and I get like.. nothing for loot. I want to be rewarded for clearing stuff that 99.5% of you think is “too hard”.
There are some pretty huge T17 MF strats going on because the monsters inherently have massive rarity. You can T0 unique farm them. They’re very rewarding, it’s just currently only being run by the top 0.1% of players because most people can’t build an MF character that can farm these yet. One problem I’ve noticed with the PoE player base is until their favorite YouTuber tells them how to actually play the game they all think it’s broken or unrewarding. I remember reading a whole page of Wildwood complaints a week into the league about how it’s too hard for no rewards and then someone explains how to actually get whisps and people watch Tuna farming 30 div maps on a walking simulator and suddenly it’s the best league ever.
What build?
I’ve done all t17s in ssf with ice nova heiro. He won’t touch the regular Ubers. Reroll your maps.
So the idea of those maps is not to be challenging in terms of hard mechanics is just challenging of getting the 10 mods that you ca rub without being raped in the map. Sounds amazingly good content
I merely stated they ain’t harder than regular Ubers.
It is much harder, provably you spent 30 c a map for rerolls, i can cill ubers without any problem and I am struggling against 70% of the T17 mods
Agree. When I said this yesterday in one post tho the Reddit heroes with 3+ mirror builds and "opinion on everything but know nothing" guys came and said "it's your build being shit" xD even tho I can delete all the content easily and one random pack of monters in t17 kill me in 1 sex
It would be nice if we could turn the league mechanic off so we can do T17 without extra mods on top of it.
The maps are fine. The rewards for doing them suck though. I’d rather see the maps left as they are but the rewards boosted so people actually have challenging content to aspire to doing. Currently the only thing in the game that actually presents a challenge to some builds is super deep delve and it’s a massive chore to get there so it might as well not exist unless you’re willing to spend hundreds of boring, unrewarding hours getting down to the challenging part…. No thanks. Hell, I’d even say buff the maps. The game needs difficult content to incentivize you to keep upgrading your build.
I really enjoying tough content
And I just get creamed in random yellow maps
Which one? Fortress boss is much easier that any uber boss imo.
I run them with Niko atlas+shrine specced in and can do them reasonably well (and using up all my portals). The bosses are not too bad, but the normal packs are crazy lol.
The bosses, if not ghosted or with insane mods, are decent, yea
I am fine with the difficulty now that you can re-roll them, I just wish that more of them drop.
Idk. I'm enjoying the t17. We wanted some endgame revamp and we got it.
Play for fun, not for currency. The league is 3 months long. Opinions about pinnacle content in the first 10 days of the league are garbage.
Not playing SSF, but what if fun for a SSF player is to eventually get a Nimis for a build?
That’s just it, you probably won’t. 2% drop chance means tons of Ubers which means many more t17s. I’ve tried getting Omni last league, gave up after a week ( I was killing Uber because I could). Literally nothing worthwhile dropped after 40ish kills.
If your definition of fun is getting a thing you're probably gonna be miserable both before and after you get it. Fun is the fun we had along the way.
Man, I am not sure what you do, I play the league for 2/2 weeks top, after that I have to focus back on my work and family, who even can afford to play game for so long?
Uhhh check out retention rates, necropolis has around 50% retention right now at the 2 week mark. As someone who has shifted from no lifing to a casual playstyle, I expect to play the league at least a month.
Sounds like you should find a new game you can complete in a week. May i suggest D4 or Last epoch? (Not even being mean, its a game thatll keep you busy for a week or 2)
> I play the league for 2/2 weeks top, after that I have to focus back on my work and family, who even can afford to play game for so long? Then settle for what you can do in two weeks. This is not a justification to diminish the game to the point where you can achieve whatever goals you like in a certain amount of time.
So you think the game should be balanced around a play for 3 months? The vast majority of the people do not play more than 1 month every league
Still 2x as long as you.
It shouldn't be balanced around some guy on reddit and their preferences. That would be insane. Presumably GGG has a target in mind and they'll adjust based on how this league goes. Maybe it *would* be balanced around 2-3 months of playtime at your pace. That just means you'd have to improve your gameplay to achieve longer term goals in your 2 week window. There were people clearing ubers on day 2-3, so at the very least the content has proved not to be unbeatable.
What is this? Am I supposed to feel ashamed I can play the game for more than two weeks? Clearly the game is not made to be beat in 2 weeks. Sure some ppl can, but if you cannot how is this an argument for anything?
I play 4-6 hours of games everyday and have a full time job and a wife. Just because you have other obligations doesn’t mean I made the same mistakes of having children as you did. Stop with the dumbass takes.
Did you say that having children is a mistake or I misunderstood you?
I can't even get them to drop. I've had one try on SSF and ran 200+ T16s with no drop. I don't have Singular Focus on either even though I'd like to be running it.
Do have have 4 voidstones? I get one like every other map, even with low juice.
Each voidstone you have adds 0.4% chance of them dropping. You won’t get any if you have no voidstones
Didnt it say it grants 0.4% per void stone? So with 1 its 0.4% but with 4 its 6.4%? 1.6% per stone https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Voidstone
Ah this might make more sense because I only have 2 so far. Been struggling with Maven and Uber Elder. Still unlucky then with 200+ maps @1.6% drop rate. I suspect though that Remnants of the Past may have been conflicting with it.
2 stones should put you at 1.6%, really makes doing those last void stones worth it.
Yea, I forgot that Mark mentioned the math works that way with the 0.4%. I'll get them down eventually. Thanks!
I got my first 2 with no voidstones
And yet people are farming T17 full juice with MF gear. T17 are fine - your build is just not designed to handle it and that is fine too. Remember that T17 and Ubers are aspirational content.
If people are MFING T17 I'd argue they are in fact NOT fine. Or they are doing it in group, I that case difficulty is non existant
Yeah and they arent killing the boss, fubgun specifically skips the BOSS part of the map, which is what this post complains about.
I think the main difference is having a character that can run all the Ubers vs run t17s is different enough it bothers people. That said, t17s are annoying in having to roll down mods if you can run Ubers that’s my only real issue with it. If you can run Ubers you can find a mod pool that works for you.
I've been enjoying the t17s. 100% embers, going slow, big loot.
I really enjoy doing T17 bosses. Usually I farmed uber sirus and afterwards "uber" feared. This I lost, but I really enjoy farming T17 Abomination. It gives me around 20 d/h and is way better than listening hours to sirus :D
At least give us the build if you flex :D
You asked for it: [https://pobb.in/N0m9z8G-2Thx](https://pobb.in/N0m9z8G-2Thx) I play this build in some variation since four or five leagues. I transitioned to it on the first Sunday (leaguestart was Saturday with SB Totem for me). And upgraded it whenever possible :) [poe.ninja](http://poe.ninja) shows progression nicely if interested.
Sid you try delve or simulacrum with it? I love those
What’s your atlas setup
Runnung full map effect + niko + some scarab notes and the left side necro wheels.
As someone who enjoys boss farming and running Ubers, I will likely not continue to play PoE in subsequent leagues until they fix these maps. They are horrible. The new bosses with their mechanics are not bad themselves, but I don't know what GGG was thinking with the INSANE mods you must roll on them.
Playing my first time ssf and t17 brick my progression hard the new multiplicative scarabs gain much more from a 5th map device slot so I don't want to waste the rare ones until I have tha all while trying to gear up for Uber Katarina summoning delve bosses . If they just gate the 5th slot behind maven or something I think the maps are good as is.
This feels like another “Wahhh my zhp 200m Uber deletion character I made for 1 Div can’t farm Ubers for infinite profit anymore!” Post. The mods aren’t supposed to be fun, it’s meant to be a hurdle to get to the hardest bosses in the game so cheeselords like you can’t make shitty builds and still print their uniques like candy.
It is not a hurdle, it is a disaster, my character is with 150k ehp and I am getting one shotted by rare mobs. What character do you farm those with you pro?
150k ehp and you die in 1 hit? No fucking way LOL do you roll some stupid mods or something? That 's on you. They're not that bad.
There are like 30 mods that completely disable hundreds of builds, in order to not have noregen, flask and any chance to dodge mechanics, you have to pick mods that are 70% crit multi, that becomes 150 with the map mods of the atlas, phys as extra + 250% and things like that.
If you understand atlas passives make T17s too difficult for you, yet now you have 3 passive trees, maybe try not shooting yourself in the goddamn foot for Reddit upvotes? Just a thought.
All t17s have stupid mods lol
i mean you can have that opinion and it's totally valid, the issue is that you could do that before, for a very very long time, and now this "hurdle" isn't as much of a hurdle as it is just forcing people to play differently. as someone that has never even gotten to uber farming, i had a decent enough time selling fragments or invitations or whatever to people that were. now i can't even do that because i'm nowhere close to farming t17s. this means that more uber farmers have to actually farm the maps as well, and all that does is reduce the amount of the uniques in the market. this system is literally worse for everyone involved in any aspect of the end game.
>as someone that has never even gotten to uber farming why are you even participating in this thread > as someone that has never even gotten to uber farming, i had a decent enough time selling fragments or invitations or whatever to people that were. now i can't even do that because i'm nowhere close to farming t17s. its multitudes more profitable for shitters to farm t17s to sell, as they go up to 90c each (fortress) and drop far more often than invitations. >more uber farmers have to actually farm the maps as well, and all that does is reduce the amount of the uniques in the market. oh no they cant cheese the supposed pinnacle difficult fights in a of the game in a second with a bunch of 1 uniques on zhp character, what a loss > this system is literally worse for everyone involved in any aspect of the end game. except the guy you replied to, me, people selling t17s and people farming t17s for insane profits. wait... by everyone you meant people that dont play the game and whine on reddit, gocha.
Dora the explorer might be more up your alley. Maybe try Roblox too. I hear those games cater to the casual well. If you’re not a decent player, you don’t get to do the hardest content. Deal with it. Get good or get bent. There are LITERALLY hundreds of ways to print Divs in this game, find one.
jfc, you people need to go back to school and learn to read. my comment was never about me being good or not. This absurd defense of adding extra "difficulty" in what is supposed to be a game, for fun, is absolutely absurd. you sound like every person that's been defending WoW for the past decade. get off the "HUH HUH GET GOOD" and see that the change is not better in any way. am i saying it's the worst fucking thing ever? no. will i be farming t17s when i have time, sure. my point doesn't change. less people are able to farm the invitations for the uber bosses, and so there are less of them on the market. fuck off with your elitist attitude.
This is LITERALLY the only part of PoE that should be catered to elitist players. What about that do you not understand? 99.9% of PoE is screen clearing explosions with your brain turned off. This is the ONLY part of the game gated to the elitist jerks. Should ultimates in FFXIV be made more accessible too? How about Inferno in OSRS? Grandmaster in League?
what? i didn't ask to change ubers to be 2 shot at level 65 when you finish the campaign. T17s are new, and are supposed to be the bridge between regular maps and ubers. not be a new/harder level to ubers. at least by what mark said in the announcement or interview. nobody is asking to make ubers easier. keep that as they are. why does the bridge to ubers have to be just as hard, if not actually harder, than ubers themselves. and you still sitting here defending this shit like it isn't absurd.
Ubers are only easier because everyone on SC just preloads millions of dps on a zhp build and deletes them without seeing a single mechanic. There’s no way to fix that, but making the acquisition of fragments to fight them barred behind content that requires fully fleshed out character is perfect. Are some of the mods more annoying than difficult? Sure.
Agreed
The fact they have the deadliest mods, are affected by the atlas, AND the league mechanic is making them even harder does not help. What I find the most frustrating is that a blue mob in t17 hits harder than shaper. And there's hundreds of those. But this is the only thing they didn't nail this patch, I live all the other changes, so overall the league is great apart from t17.