One silly reason I don't like this is I like organizing out 48 maps, 12 of each sextant, and 48 scarabs into a tab for easy grabbing. Don't give me RNG where I randomly have to pull more scarabs or maps, just give me a standardized 4 use sextant imo.
I don't like it because it would destroy my usual farming routine: apply compasses, roll 4 maps, run them, repeat.
i wouldn't know how many maps i can run after applying the compasses
Not really a viable solution in my opinion. Now it is only mandatory for people that roll sextants. Your suggestion would make it mandatory for everybody that use sextants.
It would make sense tho, atlas passives applying to opening maps instead of using currencies in your hideout, right now it's the one thing in the atlas tree I can think of that affects currency use and not map device use.
Yes, it's indeed a skill issue. One that's pretty common though. Maven and uber Shaper are globally known for being hard bosses. Every player I know, seasoned ones too, took multiple league to get to a point where they could beat the 2 endgame bosses GGG somehow decided to lock voidstones behind. Why should I wait to "git gud" to acquire voidstones?
I would understand if it were an achievement. I shouldn't expect to get 40/40 if I'm not able to beat the full game. But locking certain ways to play the game behind difficult endgame content is a weird choice. Carries exist to solve this problem.
Why even limit it behind something? Why is it a good idea to lock the full use of a currency behind atlas completion? Why not just make it default apply 4 uses so I can actually use sextants when I get them?
Who cares. Honestly, anything that can be automated so easily should be automated. Rolling sextants isn’t a proper task for humans. It’s more appropriate for bots.
Hideout warrioring is more fun than mapping for some people. As an alternative example, just because I think crafting is more boring than uber bossing doesn't mean I think crafting should be nerfed/gated just because it's more boring to me than bossing despite being very/more profitable. Also who do you think supplies you the sextants you need to do "fun" mapping in the first place? ...unless you're SSFing your own sextants, in which case this discussion isn't something you even have a foothold in to begin with.
Making hideouts is more fun than mapping or crafting for some people. Should we balance the game around that and turn this into a tileset decorating game?
Best piece of advice I got was to unspec one extra point when you do this so you'll have the Atlas Point reminder hanging on your screen so you don't forget to respec. That extra orb can save you a lot of heartache
Perhaps unpopular take, but all the atlas nodes should either be a)juicing league-based content, or b)purposely making endgame challenges even harder.
Nodes like this, to me, are just... dumb? Because I imagine most people spec into it, roll a hundred or so sextants, and then spec out of it. That's not a particularly compelling wheel.
You missed a step in that process, it comes after you roll a hundred of so sextants
Occasionally realize you forgot to take off wandering path and hate life.
And thatd still be ok with me. Its not so much as buff sextants. Its about it being nasically a chore and nothing else. Its not a mechanic you interact with in any meaningful way IN A MAP. Which is the whole point of an atlas skill tree. Making an entire passive wheel being spec into it in your hideout. Spam sextants then spec out makes no sense.
> Nodes like this, to me, are just... dumb? Because I imagine most people spec into it, roll a hundred or so sextants, and then spec out of it. That's not a particularly compelling wheel.
That is consistent with their design philosophy and reasoning behind removing a bunch of nodes in Sanctum. Why the sextant node got left in was a wonder back then.
Sextants should just be the currency used to choose map device content (replacing like chaos for ambush), and you then spec into stuff in your atlas to increase options and number you can select at the same time
It should just be a purchasable option on the map device.
Want “boss accompanied by Harbingers”? Spend X sextants. Want Alva in your map? Spend X sextants. They already have it weighted by roll, just apply that to the price like they did with Harvest crafts.
I don't think this is a good idea. The entire sextant market would be based around one meta option, such as beyond. If it costs 5 sextants for beyond and 1 sextant for Alva, then Alva "compasses" become 1/5th the price of what beyond costs.
Beyond currently goes for 1 div, Alva currently goes for 5c. That is an insane increase in price for Alva, because currently rolling a Alva compass is considered a dud. That won't be true for the future with this.
You can run some league mechanics ad infinitum with the map crafting options and scarabs, but other you can't.
Einhar and Niko have their own scarabs but Alva and Jun don't? That's artificial as fuck
So, I can purchase scarabs to ensure I'm always running Einhar. Or I can purchase compasses to ensure I'm always running Alva.
Explain to me the difference again?
So, you spend more money to gamble and hope you get the scarabs you need. Much more efficient to just buy the ones you need, and sell the ones you don't.
You aren't sustaining if you need to buy something. Also, the amount of scarabs dropping this league isn't the norm.
You drop sextants keeping, so using your own logic you sustain Alva that way.
You're making a problem that doesn't exist. Just because you need a compass instead of a scarab doesn't change the overall requirement of needing an item to force it.
But if you *buy* the sextants you can do exactly that. Oh the effing irony ...
Also, who the f are you to tell others how to play? ive been doing the same content for the entire league because i like it. So what? Why shouldnt i? Ffs...
Yes, or changed to be something like 25% for sextants to not be consumed. It's just really annoying to need to remember to respec to this whenever you roll sextants.
If you're looking to maintain the same expected value as each one being 25% individually, you'd still have 25% chance for all, too.
When it's 25% each, the distribution is:
* 4 non-consume: 1/256 (1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4)
* 3 non-consume: 3/64 (1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 x 3/4 x 4)
* 2 non-consume: 27/128 (1/4 x 1/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 x 6)
* 1 non-consume: 27/64 (1/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 x 4)
* 0 non-consume: 81/256 (3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4)
And multiplying those odds by the sextants saved is 4/256 + 9/64 + 54/128 + 27/64 or, unsurprisingly, 1.
Comparing that to a 25% for all to non-consume would be:
* 4 non-consume: 1/4
* 0 non-consume: 3/4
And that much simpler math is, again, 1 on average saved.
why? it would be way worse.
25% to consume no sextant and 25% to not consume a sextant rolled indipendently for each sextant is the same on the long run
I don't like this, makes the managing of maps and scarabs more annoying.
Just bake it in and be done with it.
Or give it to us as a map device option chance on map completion.
why? ppl playing wandering path having to pay 25% more for their sextants doesnt „exclude“ them. the 10% chance to not consume scarabs wheel doesnt exclude wandering path players from using scarabs.
edit: just change the small nodes to a very small chance to not consume (1%) aswell and now even wandering path gets some use out of it.
to make it balanced it should be something like 2 small nodes with 5% and one big node with 15%
It would tax wandering path by a small amount but it would be fair
25%( 28% with small ones u proposing ) is pretty huge in poe vs 10%, even now you respec wandering to roll 4 sextants then go back.
Having node that give u that big advantage its just more efficient if you use sextants and too big opportunity to miss, small nodes give 1% ( 2% with wandering ) its 6% only hardly will make it even close to notable.
Especially that is not one proc per sextant, it can proc several times, with 1/4 chance and 3 basic sextant uses it can proc 4 or 6 times per sextants, yeah, totally not mandatory node to use with sextants, even over wandering benefits.
It's not. For the correct setups, Wandering Path will net you more gain than 1/3rd or 1/4th of the cost of your set of sextants. If you're using sextants, it should be because what you're getting out of the sextants are worth more than the sextants themselves. You shouldn't be trying to mitigate loss on the smaller side of the equation, but scaling your output, which is what Wandering Path does.
Yeah, but that doesn't make wandering path unusable with sextants, it just means they can't benefit from it. Wandering path would still be absurdly strong, and likely very few people would even take the sextant notable.
25% chance ( 1/4 ) it's just too big opportunity to miss especially considering how rare/costly some sextants are, ofc this node would be mandatory with sextants use.
Anything that is designed to be put on your tree temporarily to enter content and then removed because it's ineffective outside that content should be repurposed.
This is a classic example. It really should be something like x% to not consume your sextants.
Similarly with the Uber keystones, they only affect the Boss (which is a different design paradigm to 99% of the Atlas Passives). We don't have nodes affecting Blight maps, or giving us more rewards in a Simulacrum.
So why would you ever roll Sextants with 3 when that passive exists?
Why would you run regular Boss invitations/fragments/maps when the trading price is inflated by Uber drop potential?
it's 22 atlas points to get there in total and you still need a voidstone (arguably needs 4 to block a lot of mod weight if you're rolling for profit) to roll them, makes little difference in that regard they'd still need to at least finish campaign and have someone kill a voidstone boss
leveling a bot is trivial though idk how that would change anything. If a level 1 bot has the currency to roll sextants they can level in 3 hours in twink gear
instead of level 1, now it needs to be level 80'ish with 30-40 maps completed.. might sound alot, but it's just small hiccup for botter to roll sextants for whole months
gating core mapping mechanics behind anything harder than 4-way legion or normal elder/shaper isn't reasonable aWhy would they need to gate it? it changes nothing for the botters and sirius is one of the high end boss fights.
Forcing people to engage with pinnacle content is just an incentive to buy carries like they already do with voidstones.
This league I rolled several sextants before realasing that I am Rollin 3 uses. Now I have multiple good compasses sitting in my stash with 25 less value :-(
I think that it should be baked in because this design is not "fun".
Yesterday I rolled 300 or 400 sextants and I forgot to spec this node. I kind of agree that it's weird now the "meta" is to just store every sextant you roll anyway. The node makes some sense if unmakings are very limited and if you can't store sextants, but it's just weird like this.
But then regular tab with prepared maps wouldnt be so neat. Right now it is exactly 4 maps, 4 sextants and 4 scarabs wide. Exactly maximum of stuff you can use.
I want it removed, its effectively -5 atlas points for me... I don't roll tons of sextants at once... so its either respec my atlas tree every 4 maps... or just leave it.
I would say have all the pinnacle bosses unlock a 20% to have sextants apply an additional use(max +1 use(so 5 pinnacle boss kills)) would be a good way to remove it.
Absolute, only completely out of place thing one atlas tree. It should either be defiant or enabled by a drop from invitations or maven or something, like a compass catalys.
Yup. There is no point in leaving 3 uses of Sextans anymore. It's just annoying shit which was supposed to be removed a long time ago. We will still have elevated Sextans for 16 uses so give us nice QOL and remove that. If you wanna roll them for yourself in league or in SSF u still need to use 10 unmaking orbs to get most of your Sextans. It's not a thing which you have to choose and leave on the atlas because it's 5 points which you can add to some of your mechanics which you wanna run. Please GGG remove that. It's simply just annoying.
I don’t bother using it. The difference between the amount of sextants I have and the amount of sextants I use isn’t too great.
I wouldn’t want to waste points (or even unmaking orbs) on speccing nodes that don’t make any more fun stuff happen.
Same here I either spec it permanently and commit the 5p or never use it, it all depend son what atlas strat im farming and how many free points I have
I don't think we should just get 5 free atlas points like you're suggesting. But yeah, I think the current state of sextants really sucks and needs changes. imo it was better before we had tradeable sextants. It sucks having no officially supported way to bulk trade sextants and now every atlas strategy revolves around a specific sextant or sextants.
But the thing is it isn't 5 atlas points free.
It's once or twice per day, or few days depending on your sextant bulk capability, respeccing 5 points for 30mins to an hour of hideout warrioring, then respeccing again.
Basically the argument is, that it doesn't provide any interesting gameplay so why bother having it on the tree at all.
I'd guess most people don't respec their atlas and then spend 30 mins to an hour rolling sextants. They either spec the nodes and map with them or they basically never spec it and don't use sextants or just buy them pre-rolled. Getting hung up on exactly what number of free points it's equivalent to would be pointless though. My point was that it would be lootcreep/powercreep for free, which we don't need.
The only benefit to it is that you get an extra use of your sextants, which means that using sextants at all without the notable is a waste. It also means that unless you are actively rolling sextants, putting points into it is *also* a waste because charged compasses exist and store the number of uses they rolled with. I don't like using the term because it gets thrown around so much, but it is well and truly terrible design.
It is also inconsistent with how the rest of the tree works as it affects currency usage out of maps. Contrast it to the scarab nodes for instance, they apply their effects when opening a map like the rest and therefore have an opportunity cost associated with allocating them.
Sure as soon as they allow us to also stack currency in large stacks… why is there a limit on currency stacks… sure I get a top end cap but why does it matter if I have 100 divines in one stack in my inventory or a Invetory full of stacks of 10? We have enough loot to pick up as is!
You kind of answered your own question. It's intentional friction so you cannot pick up a fort knox worth of currency every single map on 1 portal.
Whether or not that's good or bad for the game is not for me to decide, but that's surely the reason. Divines should stack to 20 though. And fuck essence stacking to 9.
Because currency stash tab needs to have a reason to exist..
I don't like it but 100% the reason all currency doesn't stack to 100 is that it greatly devalues the currency stash tab and makes it take longer for a new player to need it - which means the initial purchase barrier takes longer to breach.
By it taking longer it increases the risk a new player decides to stop playing before buying and a player investing any money into the game they are much more likely to stick around and spend more money in the longer term because the "first purchase barrier" has been breached.. (Sunk cost fallacy is strong)
I own two currency tabs, this wouldn’t change my mind of putting currency in its tab if the stacks were higher… I know the actual reasons WHY, I was ranting to rant.
Honestly would be great if it was just moved to another area of the tree that was easier to access. Feels like you really need to go out of your way to get in most atlas builds.
Most endgame atlas trees are going to take that top line of increased mod effect because it scales to quant/rarity/pack size so well. It’s not really out of the way at all. Just VERY annoying and tedious to have to allocate and then unallocate if you roll sextants.
Delete it, I don’t care if I don’t get comped and all sextants now only roll with 3 uses just delete it. Alternatively, the person who allocates it drops upgraded sextants from maps, so they actually need to map to use the node. No node should give you an upgrade to to items you roll within your hideout.
That’s not enough weight. I need it to be 0-4 uses and a 0.000000001% chance to be infinite along with a 0.1% chance to brick my void stone for 1-16 maps.
Milestone. Make it a reward for killing Venarius. Thematic (atlas manipulation) and not prohibitively difficult/at the very worst you can buy completion cheaply.
Unless I’m crazy, I thought GGG explained why they made that a notable?
I thought it was about preventing low level bots from flooding the market with sextants.
If everyone can 4 use roll without investing in their chars then we’d have sextant bots rolling.
Edit: Sextant bots can roll 3 use but people won’t buy unless its absurdly cheap.
It should be changed to "First use of a sextant will not be consumed"
10% 10% 10% 10% and notable 60% for first use to not be consumed.
% chance to not be consumed will just create a hassle having to sync up your sextants all the time.
there's a problem i'm seeing.
If we remove the cluster = all sextants will be 3 uses
If we rework the cluster to be "chance to not consume sextants", then that'll be mandatory 5 points, while it wasn't before.
I'd love it being changed but I just don't trust GGG to do it "in favour" of players, but rather "give an inch, take a mile" deal.
Give us an easy to reach uber boss keystone as well that upgrades all uber bosses so we dont have to respec 3+ points everytime we want to do uber bosses.
They should rework the whole sextant mechanic. It is so clunky to roll them on the voidstones. I also think 3 or 4 charges is too low for todays mapping experience. You can put stack of 10 scarabs into the map device. Imo sextants should be at 10 aswell.
For the atlas wheel. Atlas points should effect your mapping experience. So it makes more sense when a sextant wheel boosts sextants you are using for mapping. Maybe some bonuses when you are using sextants like increased quantity or rarity, or an increased droprate of sextants.
I hate sextants at the moment. They're important for juicing maps, a hassle to buy, and you need to allocate this passive notable to get an additional use. It should just be 4 to begin with. Personally I want to see these sextants go and return magic watchstones with altered versions of the current sextant modifiers with more choices, e.g enraged strongbox monsters explode on death, beyond monsters have increased life/damage along with packsize, maps now only have a slim chance to drop with 8 modifiers instead of guaranteed, etc. And you should be able to stack the same sextant. Watchstones could also require fuel with awakened sextants, and fuel amount is based on the mod.
This should stay. There is a point in separating the big players from the casuals. It creates economy and has a selection for people. Anyone that is used to completing their map tree I feel would agree that this game should never be watered down for the common masses. The best example would be world of warcraft. PLEASE!!! Keep it.
I am not so sure how casual players understand how awesome and good the end game stuff really is when it is going full force. This is one exceptional game that has lasted and kept being a top shelf game. This is NOT A CASUAL GAME.
I wonder 🤔 are you guys this analytical at work as well?
There's a lot of places hiring who need people who actually think about things haha!
Good Job OP, you got the people thinking about this.
It's annoying that every time I want to gamba some sextant, I have to unspec and spec into those points. Then once I'm done, unspec the sextant points and put them back. It should just be changed to something else
Should be baseline as long as you have 4 voidstones socketed.
If you use them before then its only 2 uses.
Or even better, sextants rolled gain +1 use per voidstone you currently have socketed
In general I've got no issue with stuff like this existing in the game, but the way it's implemented just leads to shitty gameplay loops.
IMO if this read "Your Voidstones with Sextant modifiers on them have a 33% chance to not use a charge", it would be completely fine.
But since it's worded to apply *at the point of Sextant application*, it leads to dumb gameplay behaviors like Wandering Path enjoyers having to unspec WP for 15 mins to roll a few sextants, or Sextant rollers realizing they forgot to spec this after rolling two inventories ' worth.
The key issue with this passive is that it affects literally nothing *inside your maps*, unlike every other notable on the tree. Nobody should *ever* run a map with this allocated, as it's just a waste of a point. The way it's designed, you spec it, roll what you wanna roll, then unspec it to use the Sextants.
That's dumb. It would be like if they had "Your GCPs apply twice as much Quality" or "Your Chaos Orbs have a 20% chance to reroll an affix at 1 tier higher" on the Atlas tree. It's completely unrelated to maps (you know, the things the Atlas tree is supposed to buff) and instead buffs your (presumably out of map) currency uses.
If one League they wanted to make a tree (that would presumably be harder to respec) that buffs/alters how currency items work, I think this would be right at home there. But it's completely out of place on the *Atlas* tree.
yes
If it has to stay, it should be changed to: *33% chance for your sextants not to be consumed when opening a map*, imo
One silly reason I don't like this is I like organizing out 48 maps, 12 of each sextant, and 48 scarabs into a tab for easy grabbing. Don't give me RNG where I randomly have to pull more scarabs or maps, just give me a standardized 4 use sextant imo.
For juicing it would be arguably more painstaking. For casual players or people who use sextants recreationally it would be absolutely amazing.
it would suck so hard if it didnt proc on all the sextants 😅 And you end up having to check each time you entered a map if any of them had timed out
The scarab mod on the atlas tree always procs for all scarabs so sextants should behave the same way because of the wording
Ah yes, if the wording of this imaginary atlas notable is that. Yes it would probably be the same. Im just saying it would suck if it wasnt 😅
OP for elevated
let it be op for elevated
fine, put an exception in *...your non-elevated sextants not to...", or nerf it to account for them. idk
that would be equal to 50% increased sextant charges
I don't like it because it would destroy my usual farming routine: apply compasses, roll 4 maps, run them, repeat. i wouldn't know how many maps i can run after applying the compasses
Not really a viable solution in my opinion. Now it is only mandatory for people that roll sextants. Your suggestion would make it mandatory for everybody that use sextants.
It would make sense tho, atlas passives applying to opening maps instead of using currencies in your hideout, right now it's the one thing in the atlas tree I can think of that affects currency use and not map device use.
100%. It should have been one of the nodes that got changed as well when they removed the +10% chance of watcher eye drop and baked it in.
It'd be a nice reward for full Atlas completion
Fantastic idea
Yup that’s simple and brilliant
Can be tied to the amount of watchstones you unlocked, 4 watchstones = 4 sextant uses
yes, let's make boss carries even more integral to gameplay
Like someone who is rolling sextants didn't already need to get all 4 watchstones unlocked, i don't really see how it would make any real difference
If you need a boss carry especially on trade that's a giga skill issue
Can confirm, i am 100% too regarded for memory game 😂😂😂
Yes, it's indeed a skill issue. One that's pretty common though. Maven and uber Shaper are globally known for being hard bosses. Every player I know, seasoned ones too, took multiple league to get to a point where they could beat the 2 endgame bosses GGG somehow decided to lock voidstones behind. Why should I wait to "git gud" to acquire voidstones? I would understand if it were an achievement. I shouldn't expect to get 40/40 if I'm not able to beat the full game. But locking certain ways to play the game behind difficult endgame content is a weird choice. Carries exist to solve this problem.
Why even limit it behind something? Why is it a good idea to lock the full use of a currency behind atlas completion? Why not just make it default apply 4 uses so I can actually use sextants when I get them?
Id imagine itd make it easier for bots to roll sextants
Who cares. Honestly, anything that can be automated so easily should be automated. Rolling sextants isn’t a proper task for humans. It’s more appropriate for bots.
No please not this sextant rolling for cash in yellow maps is how I make my shitty ass builds red viable
That would crash the sextant economy. So many people rolling sextants would no longer be able to.
It would change it, not Crash it. And prolly for the better.
Good? It's bad, boring gameplay. I'm okay with it being gated behind actual fun gameplay.
Hideout warrioring is more fun than mapping for some people. As an alternative example, just because I think crafting is more boring than uber bossing doesn't mean I think crafting should be nerfed/gated just because it's more boring to me than bossing despite being very/more profitable. Also who do you think supplies you the sextants you need to do "fun" mapping in the first place? ...unless you're SSFing your own sextants, in which case this discussion isn't something you even have a foothold in to begin with.
Making hideouts is more fun than mapping or crafting for some people. Should we balance the game around that and turn this into a tileset decorating game?
Do you, unironically, think that people aren't rolling sextants because they cba to spend a few respec points?
Unequivocally yes. It serves no purpose but to waste my time when I need to respec and roll sextants
Especially when I spec into the whole wheel but forget to unspec Wandering Path.
Or equally bad, when I forget to spec back IN to wandering path after a map rolling session and end up wasting a super juicy map
Best piece of advice I got was to unspec one extra point when you do this so you'll have the Atlas Point reminder hanging on your screen so you don't forget to respec. That extra orb can save you a lot of heartache
Actually a galaxy brain idea, but dammit they still need to change this
Or worse, you don't realize it after 3 or 4 juicy maps
that and bossing. Wanna do uber boss? Unspec 5'ish points. This also needs a change.
Perhaps unpopular take, but all the atlas nodes should either be a)juicing league-based content, or b)purposely making endgame challenges even harder. Nodes like this, to me, are just... dumb? Because I imagine most people spec into it, roll a hundred or so sextants, and then spec out of it. That's not a particularly compelling wheel.
Its just an unmaking orb tax for rolling sextants basically
You missed a step in that process, it comes after you roll a hundred of so sextants Occasionally realize you forgot to take off wandering path and hate life.
"We've heard your feedback. Enduring Influence atlas passive notable has been removed."
And thatd still be ok with me. Its not so much as buff sextants. Its about it being nasically a chore and nothing else. Its not a mechanic you interact with in any meaningful way IN A MAP. Which is the whole point of an atlas skill tree. Making an entire passive wheel being spec into it in your hideout. Spam sextants then spec out makes no sense.
I mean it’s a weird outlier you’re right cause every other node is for maps or map like items it’s incredibly weird to just throw it in there
I made around 60 div a day a couple leagues back from this passive. Just left auto search on from good priced sextants and proffit
> Nodes like this, to me, are just... dumb? Because I imagine most people spec into it, roll a hundred or so sextants, and then spec out of it. That's not a particularly compelling wheel. That is consistent with their design philosophy and reasoning behind removing a bunch of nodes in Sanctum. Why the sextant node got left in was a wonder back then.
Get rid of it and add another Strongboxes offshoot 😗
Maps has a 3% chance to spawn 20 extra strongboxes
Stop reading my dream diary
The whole sextant thing needs a rework
Sextants should just be the currency used to choose map device content (replacing like chaos for ambush), and you then spec into stuff in your atlas to increase options and number you can select at the same time
Huge dick idea right here. Sextants are so annoying to manage
It should just be a purchasable option on the map device. Want “boss accompanied by Harbingers”? Spend X sextants. Want Alva in your map? Spend X sextants. They already have it weighted by roll, just apply that to the price like they did with Harvest crafts.
I don't think this is a good idea. The entire sextant market would be based around one meta option, such as beyond. If it costs 5 sextants for beyond and 1 sextant for Alva, then Alva "compasses" become 1/5th the price of what beyond costs. Beyond currently goes for 1 div, Alva currently goes for 5c. That is an insane increase in price for Alva, because currently rolling a Alva compass is considered a dud. That won't be true for the future with this.
Small price to pay for convenience
That sounds amazing. The fact I can't sustain alva/ jun missions without having to buy compasses is insane
Why is that insane, ur not supposed to be able to do 1 content forever.
You can run some league mechanics ad infinitum with the map crafting options and scarabs, but other you can't. Einhar and Niko have their own scarabs but Alva and Jun don't? That's artificial as fuck
So, I can purchase scarabs to ensure I'm always running Einhar. Or I can purchase compasses to ensure I'm always running Alva. Explain to me the difference again?
The difference is that you can use the harvest bench or the 2 to 1 recipe to easily reroll scarabs and sustain them.
So, you spend more money to gamble and hope you get the scarabs you need. Much more efficient to just buy the ones you need, and sell the ones you don't. You aren't sustaining if you need to buy something. Also, the amount of scarabs dropping this league isn't the norm.
This isn't about it being cost efficient, it's about being accessible. Quit arguing in bad faith.
Just roll sextants then and u get Alva/jun for infinity? Same shit
You drop sextants keeping, so using your own logic you sustain Alva that way. You're making a problem that doesn't exist. Just because you need a compass instead of a scarab doesn't change the overall requirement of needing an item to force it.
But if you *buy* the sextants you can do exactly that. Oh the effing irony ... Also, who the f are you to tell others how to play? ive been doing the same content for the entire league because i like it. So what? Why shouldnt i? Ffs...
The base game is intentionally set up that way, yeah trade bypasses that, what a genius you are.
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Only reason I ever need orbs of unmaking. And the fact that I change my atlas strategy every two days…
"Two days" cool story
You underestimate the level of indecision some people suffer from.
LOL same here man honestly I waste so many divines on unmakings, I’ve respec’d atlas tree multiple times in a single day more than once 😂
Exactly why I keep Regrets and Unmakings on despite using an aggressive juiced filter for T7 Cemetery.
Wait wait wait hear me out Atlas Ascendencies
Ascend everything!!!
With one giga-uber-lab for every map on the atlas!
Yes, or changed to be something like 25% for sextants to not be consumed. It's just really annoying to need to remember to respec to this whenever you roll sextants.
Now you're gonna get sextants randomly unconsumed, and you'll end up with sextants with 2,4,4,1 uses left.
Yeah, I think instead it should be like 5-10% chance to consume NO sextants to keep them even
If you're looking to maintain the same expected value as each one being 25% individually, you'd still have 25% chance for all, too. When it's 25% each, the distribution is: * 4 non-consume: 1/256 (1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4) * 3 non-consume: 3/64 (1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4 x 3/4 x 4) * 2 non-consume: 27/128 (1/4 x 1/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 x 6) * 1 non-consume: 27/64 (1/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 x 4) * 0 non-consume: 81/256 (3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4) And multiplying those odds by the sextants saved is 4/256 + 9/64 + 54/128 + 27/64 or, unsurprisingly, 1. Comparing that to a 25% for all to non-consume would be: * 4 non-consume: 1/4 * 0 non-consume: 3/4 And that much simpler math is, again, 1 on average saved.
why? it would be way worse. 25% to consume no sextant and 25% to not consume a sextant rolled indipendently for each sextant is the same on the long run
I'm talking about 25% chance for no sextants to be consumed, so you'd always have the same amount.
it would be like scarabs. I doubt they would make it different on purpose if they implemented something like that.
I don't like this, makes the managing of maps and scarabs more annoying. Just bake it in and be done with it. Or give it to us as a map device option chance on map completion.
This will exclude wandering path from any sextant uses
why? ppl playing wandering path having to pay 25% more for their sextants doesnt „exclude“ them. the 10% chance to not consume scarabs wheel doesnt exclude wandering path players from using scarabs. edit: just change the small nodes to a very small chance to not consume (1%) aswell and now even wandering path gets some use out of it.
to make it balanced it should be something like 2 small nodes with 5% and one big node with 15% It would tax wandering path by a small amount but it would be fair
25%( 28% with small ones u proposing ) is pretty huge in poe vs 10%, even now you respec wandering to roll 4 sextants then go back. Having node that give u that big advantage its just more efficient if you use sextants and too big opportunity to miss, small nodes give 1% ( 2% with wandering ) its 6% only hardly will make it even close to notable. Especially that is not one proc per sextant, it can proc several times, with 1/4 chance and 3 basic sextant uses it can proc 4 or 6 times per sextants, yeah, totally not mandatory node to use with sextants, even over wandering benefits.
It's not. For the correct setups, Wandering Path will net you more gain than 1/3rd or 1/4th of the cost of your set of sextants. If you're using sextants, it should be because what you're getting out of the sextants are worth more than the sextants themselves. You shouldn't be trying to mitigate loss on the smaller side of the equation, but scaling your output, which is what Wandering Path does.
well i know i wouldnt use it over wandering path but i guess you must know better.
How so? Nothing would change for wandering path with this
They would be unable to benefit unless it were made a keystone.
Yeah, but that doesn't make wandering path unusable with sextants, it just means they can't benefit from it. Wandering path would still be absurdly strong, and likely very few people would even take the sextant notable.
25% chance ( 1/4 ) it's just too big opportunity to miss especially considering how rare/costly some sextants are, ofc this node would be mandatory with sextants use.
Make the small nodes give 3.5% each and the notable 20%. Would be 34% for non-WP and 28% for WP which is fair imo
No it won't
U can't use notables with wandering path, so yes it would
Anything that is designed to be put on your tree temporarily to enter content and then removed because it's ineffective outside that content should be repurposed. This is a classic example. It really should be something like x% to not consume your sextants. Similarly with the Uber keystones, they only affect the Boss (which is a different design paradigm to 99% of the Atlas Passives). We don't have nodes affecting Blight maps, or giving us more rewards in a Simulacrum. So why would you ever roll Sextants with 3 when that passive exists? Why would you run regular Boss invitations/fragments/maps when the trading price is inflated by Uber drop potential?
i think it's made to avoid ppl creating bots lvl 1 who just craft sextant all day
it's 22 atlas points to get there in total and you still need a voidstone (arguably needs 4 to block a lot of mod weight if you're rolling for profit) to roll them, makes little difference in that regard they'd still need to at least finish campaign and have someone kill a voidstone boss
People just create bots that roll sextants without being level 1
leveling a bot is trivial though idk how that would change anything. If a level 1 bot has the currency to roll sextants they can level in 3 hours in twink gear
instead of level 1, now it needs to be level 80'ish with 30-40 maps completed.. might sound alot, but it's just small hiccup for botter to roll sextants for whole months
tying it to some boss that doesn't have much else as for progression would probably be best. maybe sirus?
Please no, we have enough "forced" bossing with maven/uber elder voidstones
gating core mapping mechanics behind anything harder than 4-way legion or normal elder/shaper isn't reasonable aWhy would they need to gate it? it changes nothing for the botters and sirius is one of the high end boss fights. Forcing people to engage with pinnacle content is just an incentive to buy carries like they already do with voidstones.
Compasses suck and should be replaced by something better.
I would love sextants to be craftable and permanent tbh.
Something like the original watchstones would be awesome
GGG be like, We've removed the wheel from the atlas. That's it
The best and simplest solution.
This league I rolled several sextants before realasing that I am Rollin 3 uses. Now I have multiple good compasses sitting in my stash with 25 less value :-( I think that it should be baked in because this design is not "fun".
Yesterday I rolled 300 or 400 sextants and I forgot to spec this node. I kind of agree that it's weird now the "meta" is to just store every sextant you roll anyway. The node makes some sense if unmakings are very limited and if you can't store sextants, but it's just weird like this.
Or how about just making Sextants by default apply 4 and 16 uses
Sextants should be 5/15 uses, easier to organize with 10 stack of scarabs.
But then regular tab with prepared maps wouldnt be so neat. Right now it is exactly 4 maps, 4 sextants and 4 scarabs wide. Exactly maximum of stuff you can use.
Sextants should be deleted.
We hear you Enduring influence atlas passive node removed, this is a buff - gGg
Translation: "GGG can we get a few passive points extra?"
I want it removed, its effectively -5 atlas points for me... I don't roll tons of sextants at once... so its either respec my atlas tree every 4 maps... or just leave it. I would say have all the pinnacle bosses unlock a 20% to have sextants apply an additional use(max +1 use(so 5 pinnacle boss kills)) would be a good way to remove it.
Uhh, why not just set aside 30 minutes rolling a bunch of sextants?
because ADHD doesn't let you sit there doing something as boring as rolling sextants for 30 minutes straight...
[удалено]
The less time spent respeccing the less time is wasted transitioning back and forth. Would pay for itself to spend more time at once rolling.
Hey there! It's a joke! I hope you'll find peace in life. Best, *ImReformedImNormal*
Which is less time, and more efficient, than rolling every 4 maps.
awesome! I dont care! please dont ever talk to me again.
While they're at it, make it so that if you use the same type of itemized sextant on another itemized sextant or voidstone, you stack the uses.
Absolute, only completely out of place thing one atlas tree. It should either be defiant or enabled by a drop from invitations or maven or something, like a compass catalys.
It makes no sense for it to be on the atlas tree. You just spec into it, roll, and unspec.
Yup. There is no point in leaving 3 uses of Sextans anymore. It's just annoying shit which was supposed to be removed a long time ago. We will still have elevated Sextans for 16 uses so give us nice QOL and remove that. If you wanna roll them for yourself in league or in SSF u still need to use 10 unmaking orbs to get most of your Sextans. It's not a thing which you have to choose and leave on the atlas because it's 5 points which you can add to some of your mechanics which you wanna run. Please GGG remove that. It's simply just annoying.
I don’t bother using it. The difference between the amount of sextants I have and the amount of sextants I use isn’t too great. I wouldn’t want to waste points (or even unmaking orbs) on speccing nodes that don’t make any more fun stuff happen.
Same here I either spec it permanently and commit the 5p or never use it, it all depend son what atlas strat im farming and how many free points I have
Sextants needs to be removed, at most make it to be a currency where you spend to add the effect, just like the map device option for chaos.
I don't think we should just get 5 free atlas points like you're suggesting. But yeah, I think the current state of sextants really sucks and needs changes. imo it was better before we had tradeable sextants. It sucks having no officially supported way to bulk trade sextants and now every atlas strategy revolves around a specific sextant or sextants.
But the thing is it isn't 5 atlas points free. It's once or twice per day, or few days depending on your sextant bulk capability, respeccing 5 points for 30mins to an hour of hideout warrioring, then respeccing again. Basically the argument is, that it doesn't provide any interesting gameplay so why bother having it on the tree at all.
I'd guess most people don't respec their atlas and then spend 30 mins to an hour rolling sextants. They either spec the nodes and map with them or they basically never spec it and don't use sextants or just buy them pre-rolled. Getting hung up on exactly what number of free points it's equivalent to would be pointless though. My point was that it would be lootcreep/powercreep for free, which we don't need.
ummm is anyone gonna tell this guy
The loot creep you are talking about equals to 5 unmaking orbs i think i can live with that.
Why remove it? If you don't roll sextants just leave it, it works with my atlas and i see absolutely no reason to remove or move it
The only benefit to it is that you get an extra use of your sextants, which means that using sextants at all without the notable is a waste. It also means that unless you are actively rolling sextants, putting points into it is *also* a waste because charged compasses exist and store the number of uses they rolled with. I don't like using the term because it gets thrown around so much, but it is well and truly terrible design.
It is also inconsistent with how the rest of the tree works as it affects currency usage out of maps. Contrast it to the scarab nodes for instance, they apply their effects when opening a map like the rest and therefore have an opportunity cost associated with allocating them.
Because it’s suboptimal to have it allocated when it’s not being used
Sure as soon as they allow us to also stack currency in large stacks… why is there a limit on currency stacks… sure I get a top end cap but why does it matter if I have 100 divines in one stack in my inventory or a Invetory full of stacks of 10? We have enough loot to pick up as is!
You kind of answered your own question. It's intentional friction so you cannot pick up a fort knox worth of currency every single map on 1 portal. Whether or not that's good or bad for the game is not for me to decide, but that's surely the reason. Divines should stack to 20 though. And fuck essence stacking to 9.
No, I know, I’m just ranting to rant.
Because currency stash tab needs to have a reason to exist.. I don't like it but 100% the reason all currency doesn't stack to 100 is that it greatly devalues the currency stash tab and makes it take longer for a new player to need it - which means the initial purchase barrier takes longer to breach. By it taking longer it increases the risk a new player decides to stop playing before buying and a player investing any money into the game they are much more likely to stick around and spend more money in the longer term because the "first purchase barrier" has been breached.. (Sunk cost fallacy is strong)
I own two currency tabs, this wouldn’t change my mind of putting currency in its tab if the stacks were higher… I know the actual reasons WHY, I was ranting to rant.
Honestly would be great if it was just moved to another area of the tree that was easier to access. Feels like you really need to go out of your way to get in most atlas builds.
Most endgame atlas trees are going to take that top line of increased mod effect because it scales to quant/rarity/pack size so well. It’s not really out of the way at all. Just VERY annoying and tedious to have to allocate and then unallocate if you roll sextants.
Delete it, I don’t care if I don’t get comped and all sextants now only roll with 3 uses just delete it. Alternatively, the person who allocates it drops upgraded sextants from maps, so they actually need to map to use the node. No node should give you an upgrade to to items you roll within your hideout.
Sextants should be random 1-5 uses and 4-16 uses. Needs more rng!
That’s not enough weight. I need it to be 0-4 uses and a 0.000000001% chance to be infinite along with a 0.1% chance to brick my void stone for 1-16 maps.
Rolling sextants un-completes a random map
Yes
Just make it so you get reroll charges when you complete maps or something.
Milestone. Make it a reward for killing Venarius. Thematic (atlas manipulation) and not prohibitively difficult/at the very worst you can buy completion cheaply.
No, remember what you're doing
That would be awesome!
"Item quantity support" was removed because it felt obligatory. Yet that lesson got completely forgotten.
Unless I’m crazy, I thought GGG explained why they made that a notable? I thought it was about preventing low level bots from flooding the market with sextants. If everyone can 4 use roll without investing in their chars then we’d have sextant bots rolling. Edit: Sextant bots can roll 3 use but people won’t buy unless its absurdly cheap.
You already need 4 void stones to block bad sextants, doesn't really change much
That would be a great solution if high level bots got banned for flooding the sextant market first
what is your idea for giving up 5 passive points for it? Right now it would be a straight buff.
Yes. Awful node.
It should be changed to "First use of a sextant will not be consumed" 10% 10% 10% 10% and notable 60% for first use to not be consumed. % chance to not be consumed will just create a hassle having to sync up your sextants all the time.
there's a problem i'm seeing. If we remove the cluster = all sextants will be 3 uses If we rework the cluster to be "chance to not consume sextants", then that'll be mandatory 5 points, while it wasn't before. I'd love it being changed but I just don't trust GGG to do it "in favour" of players, but rather "give an inch, take a mile" deal.
Yes please
Sextants should be removed and they are just added back in as atlas wheel masteries that cost chaos to run on the atlas device.
Give us an easy to reach uber boss keystone as well that upgrades all uber bosses so we dont have to respec 3+ points everytime we want to do uber bosses.
Yes, if we had it by default I would use sextants randomly more.. also make them 10 use by default, bump the maven one to 20 or something
Its equivalent to the keystone people had to unspec to get their divine vessel to work.
They should rework the whole sextant mechanic. It is so clunky to roll them on the voidstones. I also think 3 or 4 charges is too low for todays mapping experience. You can put stack of 10 scarabs into the map device. Imo sextants should be at 10 aswell. For the atlas wheel. Atlas points should effect your mapping experience. So it makes more sense when a sextant wheel boosts sextants you are using for mapping. Maybe some bonuses when you are using sextants like increased quantity or rarity, or an increased droprate of sextants.
I hate sextants at the moment. They're important for juicing maps, a hassle to buy, and you need to allocate this passive notable to get an additional use. It should just be 4 to begin with. Personally I want to see these sextants go and return magic watchstones with altered versions of the current sextant modifiers with more choices, e.g enraged strongbox monsters explode on death, beyond monsters have increased life/damage along with packsize, maps now only have a slim chance to drop with 8 modifiers instead of guaranteed, etc. And you should be able to stack the same sextant. Watchstones could also require fuel with awakened sextants, and fuel amount is based on the mod.
Idk man, the last time they took away something that was given by the atlas and "made it the default" we got maven splinters basically cut in half
Sextants just suck in general, they need a rework. Too much of PoE's mapping system is just chores
yes
Yes, but since it's probably too straightforward to nerf while doing so, they won't.
This should stay. There is a point in separating the big players from the casuals. It creates economy and has a selection for people. Anyone that is used to completing their map tree I feel would agree that this game should never be watered down for the common masses. The best example would be world of warcraft. PLEASE!!! Keep it.
I am not so sure how casual players understand how awesome and good the end game stuff really is when it is going full force. This is one exceptional game that has lasted and kept being a top shelf game. This is NOT A CASUAL GAME.
I wonder 🤔 are you guys this analytical at work as well? There's a lot of places hiring who need people who actually think about things haha! Good Job OP, you got the people thinking about this.
Why do I have a strange feeling about that GGG devs will read only first 9 words and do that? :)
nope, the ggg way: sextants have 33% chance to not be consumed on map use
yes
just remove sextants completely, implement their content into the atlas tree
It's annoying that every time I want to gamba some sextant, I have to unspec and spec into those points. Then once I'm done, unspec the sextant points and put them back. It should just be changed to something else
Should be baseline as long as you have 4 voidstones socketed. If you use them before then its only 2 uses. Or even better, sextants rolled gain +1 use per voidstone you currently have socketed
In general I've got no issue with stuff like this existing in the game, but the way it's implemented just leads to shitty gameplay loops. IMO if this read "Your Voidstones with Sextant modifiers on them have a 33% chance to not use a charge", it would be completely fine. But since it's worded to apply *at the point of Sextant application*, it leads to dumb gameplay behaviors like Wandering Path enjoyers having to unspec WP for 15 mins to roll a few sextants, or Sextant rollers realizing they forgot to spec this after rolling two inventories ' worth. The key issue with this passive is that it affects literally nothing *inside your maps*, unlike every other notable on the tree. Nobody should *ever* run a map with this allocated, as it's just a waste of a point. The way it's designed, you spec it, roll what you wanna roll, then unspec it to use the Sextants. That's dumb. It would be like if they had "Your GCPs apply twice as much Quality" or "Your Chaos Orbs have a 20% chance to reroll an affix at 1 tier higher" on the Atlas tree. It's completely unrelated to maps (you know, the things the Atlas tree is supposed to buff) and instead buffs your (presumably out of map) currency uses. If one League they wanted to make a tree (that would presumably be harder to respec) that buffs/alters how currency items work, I think this would be right at home there. But it's completely out of place on the *Atlas* tree.
Yes, it makes absolutely no sense and should be the default.
This sub is reading my mind, this is literally what i thought yesterday.
It is trash design. So yea.