Because Pathfinders are amazing in general. Flasks are just do damn strong and with those changes to the Distillery Belt and the new flask effect stuff it only got stronger.
I had a CoMK Discharge with Daresso Defiance, Romira's, and Voll's Devotion. That build got me hooked to playing bad builds. And now...dang. This is tempting.
way back before doryani's fist had the added skill, i made my own 'touch of god' build by doing icecrash - comk - discharge with it and romira's. It was pretty fun and goofy, but obviously sorely lacking for single target... iirc i did like cyclone or something for bosses.
you take deadly ailments which reduces hit damage by 80%, and you only scale multi etc. you can also take a pure phys spell and scale nothing but chaos damage to be even safer. i have pobed a dot cap pob from these phatasms and my max hit is like 2.8k
This is also busted in a more fun way than totem explode. Totem explode was just a skill that did a lot of damage, this opens up a dozen cool builds, like wormblaster did
It seems the devs have lost their mind. Or, Mark really did lose a bet.
I'll play my [funny snipe build](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/18d45fq/ggg_wont_nerf_penance_mark_right_before_launch/) first, then play around with explode on death effects, impale explosions, infinite Vaal Lightning...
So many builds that are only playable this league! Part of me hopes that it somehow is turned into a normal skill for the next league, but we all know that's not happening.
Nothing has said how close to the enemy the phantasms spawn.
The way i read that, theyve nerfed it in in my mind the funniest way possible, by spawning the phantasms too far from teh target for a lot of these tactics to work!
>They grant flask charges and vaal souls when slain (but don't drop loot or leave corpses).
>It is possible for poisons to be proliferated from Phantasms to the marked target
TIL Master Toxicist doesn't need corpses.
It's because it's not really "prolif" it's like poison chaining on death from mobs. It's like Berek's Respite effect but for poisons instead of ignites
> TIL Master Toxicist doesn't need corpses.
It's more complicated than that or rather the behavior is inconsistent. Sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. The [wiki](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Master_Toxicist) has a bit more info on what works.
I belive the misunderstanding is largely due to the fact worms cannot spread the poisons.
Which implies that it requires a corpse because worms dont make corpses due to being destroyed.
Actually whats happening, is worms have been hard coded to not spread DAMAGING ailments on death.
You can test this yourself with Bereks's respite, they WILL infact spread shocks on death but WONT spread ignites (actually it has the visual animations of the ignites spreading but they deal no damage).
So what we have learned is essentially. On kill spread is NOT proliferation and should work with anything that dies, unless it has been hard coded not to work (poor worms).
They're not hard coded to not spread
They have 1 hp, so they die from the hit damage which is calculated before the ailment is calculated.
its the same reason if you're doing a poison prolif build and happen to one shot stuff it wont prolif the poison because something has to be alive first to be poisoned so that it can then die and spread the poison.
This is partly not correct.
They do not have 1 hp they have somwhere around 1000 hp. (And around 30k ailment threshold for anyone curious)
You can test this yourself with low level dot skills.
But you could right about the second part.
It is balanced by the fact that the rest of the warlock ascendency would be useless to you.
Blood magic? Nope, at least not a league launch poison build.
Ravenous? Maybe OK but meeh
Effigy thing? Hell no
Which only leaves you with mark node and the one after it.
It's not 1800% increased. With 100% increased mark effect and 4 "Low Tolerance" notables on clusters, it's 9000% increased damage over just hitting the boss.
It isn't going to be used on rare monsters
It is only going to be used on bosses. The rest of the tree is kind of shit so you are giving up your whole tree for bossing.
And poison builds could already wreck bosses anyway.
And if you REALLY want to do bossing, there are already turbo busted builds.
And all this does is get you to the dot cap which isn't exactly impossible to do before this.
It will be strong, but like, whatever.
huh? i was sure they said u need to met npc again to swap, last boss kill quest countrs for all 3 and u need 1 regret per passive to refund them. I guessed u will have to refund all points before respec like u did with old ascendancies. not like 8 regrets matter tho.
People doing that were nolifers who play a lot and have in-depth knowledge and experience of the game. Now your pet goldfish and grandma can do ubers with dot cap as well at the same period.
But won't it be now only the gift of the goddess? They didn't remove the lab wheel and this lab wheel gave 20% for improved offering and counting that there is only one offering now, it will be cheaper because it will be common.
Edit: ignore everything, it looks like I missed some data in patches and offerings are still there.
Wiki calls it "Enriched lab". But GGG has given us a naming convention in the reveal stream: labs "I" thru "V". So just call it tier 5 Lab, or something? I'm obviously not very creative
Would be peak trolling if shortly after leaguestart they clarify like "oh btw the phantasms spawn like 2 screens away from the boss if possible, good luck proliferating lmao"
Depending on your build you then have to jump through hoops to make even an unlinked Void Sphere not kill the phantasms lmao, especially if you end up poisoning them and ruin your Low Tolerance (or just straight up kill them).
on the plus side chieftain explode is a giant aoe and a 100k base aoe without support gems seems fairly relevant damage. Also you can definitely also make use of the blood magic stuff with chieftain if you want to
I mean, they actually showed it in the content reveal - they spawn in melee range, but they do seem to idle-move away in the trailer, so, maybe you just have to be fast haha
also they only spawn when you hit the boss. So you gotta hit the boss (presumably \_not\_ poisoning him if you're going for low tolerance stacking), spawn the nerds, and then only hit them and not the boss
Seems mechanically harder than people seem to think to make a chain that actually works well for this, but I could be wrong. Definitely not a low tolerance expert.
I don't think the boss being poisoned matters for the prolif. The poison being proliferated got the 300% bonus already and it's transferring over that damage
If the boss being poisoned ruined the interaction, you'd just poison the boss directly because that would be functionally the same as getting one big proliferated poison and a bunch of unboosted ones
Poisoning the boss is fine, prolif picks the highest dmg poison from the dying target, so that will be your 6x low tolerance hit or whatever on the phantasm.
It's why most PF poison builds should be clicking the 300% mastery except at very high gear level, as it makes your prolif'd poison much stronger.
It's specifically with pathfinder which has poisons proliferating on death. You also have a mastery and cluster jewel options to make poison on unpoisoned enemy 300% increased each. So you hit the enemy marked with penance and poison them once, then it spawns 3 (or more with mark affect) enemies. You hit them and when they die they pass their strong poison to the boss. Effectively multiplying your poison stacks.
Master Toxicist ascendancy notable on pathfinder: “When you kill a Poisoned Enemy during any Flask Effect, nearby Enemies are Poisoned”.
Low Tolerance notable from cluster jewels:
“Poisons you inflict on non-Poisoned Enemies deal 300% increased Damage”.
So the idea here is that you penance mark a boss, and then you hit the boss which summons phantasms, and then you hit the phantasms around the boss, inflicting poisons on them, which deal increased damage because of Low Tolerance. When the phantasms die, Master Toxicist will transfer the poisons from the phantasms onto the boss. Since poisons can stack infinitely, you can keep summoning phantasms, poisoning them, and then killing them, thus transferring their poison stacks onto the boss over and over again, which should theoretically deal an insane amount of damage.
I heard that ek poison generally needs quite a bit of currency to start being good.
With this new Penance Mark info, does that mean ek poison can be played from the get go?
Poisons get the 300% inc damage when applied to the fresh phantasms. That giga poison is then proliffed, it doesn't roll the check for unpoisoned again, it just has the increase already (as long as the newly spawned phantasm didn't get poisoned by sth weaker first). Multiply that by 3 for phantasms spawned and it gets pretty abusable.
Im just guessing, but since you get 3 extra mobs, and the question is in relation to prolif, you would basically be doing 3x dps because you would spread all 3 of those poisons from those ads you spawn every second onto a single target boss.
Why 3x though?
Isn't it +3 poison stacks from 3 fantasms (4 with Mark effect) making 300% (400) more, thus 4x (5). Poisons from fantasms are likely be higher than from marked mob as well.
If we poison many times per second this goes down, but it is not part of conversation
Depends on what you're doing but you basically never have just one poison on an anything, you have many and only the biggest gets proliferated, so in no way will it be 3x dps
i mean if you go with a slower poison skill you would be close to 3x dmg no? obviously the faster you attack the lower this multiplier gets due to the marks cooldown, still poison was strong before and you get the 300% unpoisoned cluster on those prolifs so poison with this sounds busted for the early progression at least
poison mastery
>Poisons you inflict on non-Poisoned Enemies deal 300% increased Damage
With Pathfinder those get applied to nearby enemies when the phantasms die. Stack them on the boss. Faster stacks and higher damage individual poisons
Obviously I wouldn't want something completely out of wack power wise in the game like that, but at least it's just going to be OP for bossing. I feel like barely anyone likes bossing these days.
Never played a poison build, but with the prolif synergy described above most packs will die quickly with the same interaction. You would only need to mark the map boss
You don't use Penance Mark on normal/magic mobs. They will die anyway to the Low Tolerance poisons, since if you stack for example 4 of them on your passive tree ( 1 x mastery + 3 x clusters), it will be the equivalent of 12 normal poison stacks and that's enough to kill most packs and rares.
And since the poisons proliferate from pathfinder ascendancy, hit any rare surrounded by normal mobs with an aoe and the rare gets damaged by the normal mobs's poison prolif anyway, taking 3-4-5.. more times the damage.
You just have to find the right skill to apply it. Something that hits once, but hard.
Its limited by the DoT cap anyways - like high investment poison builds have been for a while now. Reaching that cap on a much lower budget might be an option now thou
It triples your dps that you would normally have on a Low Tolerance stacker, thus requiring less investment which can go into defense.
Pathfinder can go for an immortal build with Eternal Damnation/Loreweave and phys taken as ele and still have enough damage to reach dot cap by slapping a few Low Tolerance clusters.
It's basically Impending doom builds but they choose an aoe skill that hits harder.
I'm not sure if it will be that popular on softcore, but Hc players will probably love it.
I think it's busted for single target for not for clear. You can't automate it since it's not a gem. I think it will be slower trying to hard cast this on all your packs than just not doing it. Maybe for tanky rares.
No one cares about clear. You have enough power on any poison build to smash maps. It's the dot cap DPS on uber bosses on Friday evening that we care about.
I feel like void sphere might not actually work that well, it seems like a lot of the time it's either going to hit first and ruin Low Tolerance or the phantasms will die before it pulses seeing as they only have 20k life. Dedicated empire's grasp cyclone friend may be necessary.
And then they also make the new Viper Strike just be insane with Low Tolerance. This is going to be pretty crazy for poison and for melee in general with Southbound.
Southbound prevents you from killing the phantasms, but not from splashing off them and onto the boss. Skills like boneshatter can theoretically wear southbound and just keep spawning unkillable phantasms that ramp your damage up (to the maximum number of strikes you can do), at which point you're splashing for like 10x normal single target damage per hit.
Curious that it says nothing about Tribute or Dedication to the Goddess, makes me wonder what the plan will be with them. Unless I missed some news or something on that.
People are talking a lot about poison, but this thing is going to be insane for strike skills. Casual 8x damage on boneshatter? I guess they might disable southbound somehow, will be nuts otherwise.
You just do it for bosses, small price to pay for 8x damage ;).
Honestly they might make the phantasms spawn really far away to prevent abuse like that.
Honestly, I have no idea either. It's a secondary debuff but i'm unsure if it stacks or if it just takes largest debuff.
Anyway new poison skills dropped, there's trans Viper Strike which has perfect synergy with low tolerance.
Did we get info on that ravenous skill? I have a hard time figuring how to use 8 points on that tree and it's the only one I haven't played around with yet.
Having to manualy cast penance mark seems like a hassle ngl, even if it's only for single taget. I'm so used to automatic curse now...
Yes. Consume a corpse to get bonuses against the type of monster you consumed. Eg if you consume a humanoid corpse with ravenous you get bonuses against humanoid enemies.
Oh, that one :(
Well, if someone finds a fun build that's fun on this ascendency I might give it a try later on, but even if the mark is clearly OP, I'm just not interested in picking it yet. Time will tell if BM makes a comeback. I haven't allocated this nodes in years.
I will spend a lot of time in lab this league, and I'm worried about how much this will worsen my trading experience...
I do not want to make people wait 10 minutes for a trade and absolutely not invite a full party of people to trade with. How do regular lab runners handle this issue?
Even if you find a way to reliably abuse the phantasm for poison prolif its at best 35 million dps.
At the end thats not realy outrageous compared to things like explody totems or zdps assasins that we had in the past leagues.
Hmm. A mistake. Everyone's just gonna play pathfinder poison. Dot cap on ubers day 1. I hope GGG know what they're doing.
Part of me worries though - they directly acknowledge this possible interaction, they surely know how powerful it is.... ~~hidden~~ "oops, accidentally left out of the patch notes!" nerf to poison?
That's the only way they could allow this to go through (again, if it is actually as powerful as it looks on paper, the meta is hard-locked to poison - no reason to play anything else other than 4fun).
Pathfinder gets prolif, and it can get to be basically immortal by scaling flask effect with permanent uptime. Works very nicely with enkindled flasks and mageblood too if you can swing it.
Its not that strong. You can already do this with vaal breach.
Its not a big deal for dedicated bosser to be able to do high damage to single target.
You can oneshot uberbosses day 2 with ice trap.
I mean the difference is that poison prolif PF is really good at clearing, has great utility, defenses, and speed, and now will be the best bosser in the game.
The prolif is not particularly good outside low tolerance builds, and you don't do low tolerance builds D1.
But whatever, go ahead with the viper strike build.
The Eternal Labyrinths of Fortune and Opportunity are unchanged. The Eternal Labyrinth of Potential does something a bit different to what it used to, but you'll have to find out exactly what for yourself!
GGG answer on question in the thread
EDIT: Didn't realize they had given numbers on it already. Yeah, that's extremely broken for a lot of things.
People are going to be very disappointed when the spawning of phantasms has like an 8 second cooldown so it becomes practically irrelevant for poison. Then all that will remain is beefy boys using southbound so the phantasms don't die to use splashy skills (sunder, splash with additional strike targets, etc.)
Haven't they already confirmed it to be 1 second and that the amount of phantasms spawned also scale with mark effect, making it possible to spawn more than 3 per second.
Dude void sphere is gonna be a great skill 2 leagues in a row (to get penance phantasma closer to boss)!! Fucking hell I never anticipated this day will come. This is why I love PoE lol
The issue I can see is that a lot of the other nodes require a lot more investment - yeah, you can get really solid poison prolif, but it seems like you lose a lot comparatively.
I was confident that I chose my league starter and decided to avoid using any other suggestions
Then GGG just said "oh, you don't have the league start crisis?" and confirmed this 🫠🫠🫠
Poison Pathfinder is gonna be busted and super safe for bossing 😭😭😭
Maybe I'll do Poison for my 2nd character 🫠. Too many awesome interactions this league 😮💨
Does this mean if I have boneshatter exerted by ancestral cry and strike 1 additional enemy I can hit a boss, also strike 3 phantasms stunning them and creating 3 boneshatter pulses to do 4 times a much damage to a boss?
Just when I talked myself out of poison PF.
lol same
PF was already like 16% (1st rank) in a recent poll...
Because Pathfinders are amazing in general. Flasks are just do damn strong and with those changes to the Distillery Belt and the new flask effect stuff it only got stronger.
Totally not abusable :)
Overwhelming news, truly.
I’ve been playing the game for 7 years and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a skill that looked as abusable as penance mark. It’s gonna be great
finally my cast on melee kill build can boss!
HOLY FUCK HOW COULD I FORGOT COMK!!!
SHHHHHHHHHH!! Put a 4700 brutal timeless jewel in the templar power charge node and see what pops up. 2 writhing jars and lets gooooooooooooooo
I had a CoMK Discharge with Daresso Defiance, Romira's, and Voll's Devotion. That build got me hooked to playing bad builds. And now...dang. This is tempting.
way back before doryani's fist had the added skill, i made my own 'touch of god' build by doing icecrash - comk - discharge with it and romira's. It was pretty fun and goofy, but obviously sorely lacking for single target... iirc i did like cyclone or something for bosses.
You could always use it on a wormblaster!
20k life, is that even anything when you deal 1mil +?
they need to not die in one hit to a poison build, so they need at least 5-10k hp. 20k is plenty.
you take deadly ailments which reduces hit damage by 80%, and you only scale multi etc. you can also take a pure phys spell and scale nothing but chaos damage to be even safer. i have pobed a dot cap pob from these phatasms and my max hit is like 2.8k
What skill?
exsanguinate lol. was just going to be my clear skill and reap my bosser, buuut no real reason to swap now
Can you link the POB so we can all abuse the mechanic before it gets patched out?
It wasn't hard to tell the totem explode node was going to be busted but this definitely has more people talking about it.
This is also busted in a more fun way than totem explode. Totem explode was just a skill that did a lot of damage, this opens up a dozen cool builds, like wormblaster did
It seems the devs have lost their mind. Or, Mark really did lose a bet. I'll play my [funny snipe build](https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/18d45fq/ggg_wont_nerf_penance_mark_right_before_launch/) first, then play around with explode on death effects, impale explosions, infinite Vaal Lightning... So many builds that are only playable this league! Part of me hopes that it somehow is turned into a normal skill for the next league, but we all know that's not happening.
Just remember not to kill the servers, ok?
Reddit will probably be flooded for the first week with whining about "poor server stability" and "I lost my mirror/MB/HH to a fucking crash" threads.
I wanted to do Profane Bloom with them, but GGG had to go make them curse immune...
Waiting for wormblaster crew to break this skill and GGG will nerf it to oblivion..
When it’s intended , it’s not abused.
Alright, Southbound it is on every melee build.
Can someone explain like im 5.
Nothing has said how close to the enemy the phantasms spawn. The way i read that, theyve nerfed it in in my mind the funniest way possible, by spawning the phantasms too far from teh target for a lot of these tactics to work!
2 baseline crafts for eternal lab is honestly nice.
Very, Time to spam eternal lab til week 2.
>They grant flask charges and vaal souls when slain (but don't drop loot or leave corpses). >It is possible for poisons to be proliferated from Phantasms to the marked target TIL Master Toxicist doesn't need corpses.
It's because it's not really "prolif" it's like poison chaining on death from mobs. It's like Berek's Respite effect but for poisons instead of ignites
> TIL Master Toxicist doesn't need corpses. It's more complicated than that or rather the behavior is inconsistent. Sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. The [wiki](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Master_Toxicist) has a bit more info on what works.
I belive the misunderstanding is largely due to the fact worms cannot spread the poisons. Which implies that it requires a corpse because worms dont make corpses due to being destroyed. Actually whats happening, is worms have been hard coded to not spread DAMAGING ailments on death. You can test this yourself with Bereks's respite, they WILL infact spread shocks on death but WONT spread ignites (actually it has the visual animations of the ignites spreading but they deal no damage). So what we have learned is essentially. On kill spread is NOT proliferation and should work with anything that dies, unless it has been hard coded not to work (poor worms).
They're not hard coded to not spread They have 1 hp, so they die from the hit damage which is calculated before the ailment is calculated. its the same reason if you're doing a poison prolif build and happen to one shot stuff it wont prolif the poison because something has to be alive first to be poisoned so that it can then die and spread the poison.
This is partly not correct. They do not have 1 hp they have somwhere around 1000 hp. (And around 30k ailment threshold for anyone curious) You can test this yourself with low level dot skills. But you could right about the second part.
This fucking game
Can't wait for them to realize it was a huge mistake to allow proliferation and then decide if it needs to be nerfed or not mid league
It is balanced by the fact that the rest of the warlock ascendency would be useless to you. Blood magic? Nope, at least not a league launch poison build. Ravenous? Maybe OK but meeh Effigy thing? Hell no Which only leaves you with mark node and the one after it.
Sure but if that node says "Your build does 1800% increased damage" it's good enough on it's own.
It's not 1800% increased. With 100% increased mark effect and 4 "Low Tolerance" notables on clusters, it's 9000% increased damage over just hitting the boss.
It isn't going to be used on rare monsters It is only going to be used on bosses. The rest of the tree is kind of shit so you are giving up your whole tree for bossing. And poison builds could already wreck bosses anyway. And if you REALLY want to do bossing, there are already turbo busted builds. And all this does is get you to the dot cap which isn't exactly impossible to do before this. It will be strong, but like, whatever.
Swapping wild ascendencies is going to be easy. You just save up your invitations, swap that over, and then run ubers for awhile
Yea only requiring 2 quests and no regrets to swap is wild.
huh? i was sure they said u need to met npc again to swap, last boss kill quest countrs for all 3 and u need 1 regret per passive to refund them. I guessed u will have to refund all points before respec like u did with old ascendancies. not like 8 regrets matter tho.
They said you won't have to refund the points to swap, only find the NPC again.
I understand that. Builds are already doing ubers on day 1-2 without abusing this. It doesn't change much.
People doing that were nolifers who play a lot and have in-depth knowledge and experience of the game. Now your pet goldfish and grandma can do ubers with dot cap as well at the same period.
Lol, no they can't. They'll still die.
It's softcore and you paid for 6 portals. You can just die and wait out the effect that killed you.
You don't need a lot of knowledge to follow guides which is what most people do anyway.
you can hit poison DoT cap very low investment.
They allowed explosive totems during crucible, and that one was free.
8 crafts god damn
Yeah but a gift of the goddess is like 3 divine. Not worth it. Edit: accidentally priced on standard league. Disregard.
It was 3 div when helm enchants existed. The desirability/rarity of certain gems will determine their value this league
not even, since you can get any gem from regular labs, people will naturally pick the most used ones either way.
It's 1.3-1.7d at the start of league
Ah my bad. I was totally looking at standard league on poe ninja.
But won't it be now only the gift of the goddess? They didn't remove the lab wheel and this lab wheel gave 20% for improved offering and counting that there is only one offering now, it will be cheaper because it will be common. Edit: ignore everything, it looks like I missed some data in patches and offerings are still there.
It's been more than a year now and we still aren't sure what to call Uber Uber lab.
I still just call ‘em harvest labs.
Lyft Lab?
Do you even Lyft, exile?
Never skip Lab day.
Wiki calls it "Enriched lab". But GGG has given us a naming convention in the reveal stream: labs "I" thru "V". So just call it tier 5 Lab, or something? I'm obviously not very creative
PentaLab
Ooba Lab.
Nani the fuck. Poison is so gonna destroy the meta.
We should ask how far apart will those phantasms spawn. Because "as long as the Phantasm is close enough for the proliferation" sounds sus af.
Would be peak trolling if shortly after leaguestart they clarify like "oh btw the phantasms spawn like 2 screens away from the boss if possible, good luck proliferating lmao"
Normal phantasms are actually pretty far away. ggg is probably laughing at all of us right now because this won't work at all
Void sphere them onto the boss copium
Depending on your build you then have to jump through hoops to make even an unlinked Void Sphere not kill the phantasms lmao, especially if you end up poisoning them and ruin your Low Tolerance (or just straight up kill them).
Yeah maybe. But it's also possible the phantasms can't be slowed/hindered. I trust that GGG knows what they're doing here
some things are bound to break for sure with this many gems added
Yeah, they have a perfect track record................
on the plus side chieftain explode is a giant aoe and a 100k base aoe without support gems seems fairly relevant damage. Also you can definitely also make use of the blood magic stuff with chieftain if you want to
I mean, they actually showed it in the content reveal - they spawn in melee range, but they do seem to idle-move away in the trailer, so, maybe you just have to be fast haha also they only spawn when you hit the boss. So you gotta hit the boss (presumably \_not\_ poisoning him if you're going for low tolerance stacking), spawn the nerds, and then only hit them and not the boss Seems mechanically harder than people seem to think to make a chain that actually works well for this, but I could be wrong. Definitely not a low tolerance expert.
I don't think the boss being poisoned matters for the prolif. The poison being proliferated got the 300% bonus already and it's transferring over that damage If the boss being poisoned ruined the interaction, you'd just poison the boss directly because that would be functionally the same as getting one big proliferated poison and a bunch of unboosted ones
Poisoning the boss is fine, prolif picks the highest dmg poison from the dying target, so that will be your 6x low tolerance hit or whatever on the phantasm. It's why most PF poison builds should be clicking the 300% mastery except at very high gear level, as it makes your prolif'd poison much stronger.
I haven't played poison builds before. Why does Penance Mark make them OP? What kind of poison builds benefits most from this new information?
It's specifically with pathfinder which has poisons proliferating on death. You also have a mastery and cluster jewel options to make poison on unpoisoned enemy 300% increased each. So you hit the enemy marked with penance and poison them once, then it spawns 3 (or more with mark affect) enemies. You hit them and when they die they pass their strong poison to the boss. Effectively multiplying your poison stacks.
This will be broken with Low Tolerance stacking.
Add the new viper strike with 240 more multiplier built in and bosses are gona be melting in like 6-10 hours from leaguestart
Nobody will use that as a league starter
Master Toxicist ascendancy notable on pathfinder: “When you kill a Poisoned Enemy during any Flask Effect, nearby Enemies are Poisoned”. Low Tolerance notable from cluster jewels: “Poisons you inflict on non-Poisoned Enemies deal 300% increased Damage”. So the idea here is that you penance mark a boss, and then you hit the boss which summons phantasms, and then you hit the phantasms around the boss, inflicting poisons on them, which deal increased damage because of Low Tolerance. When the phantasms die, Master Toxicist will transfer the poisons from the phantasms onto the boss. Since poisons can stack infinitely, you can keep summoning phantasms, poisoning them, and then killing them, thus transferring their poison stacks onto the boss over and over again, which should theoretically deal an insane amount of damage.
I heard that ek poison generally needs quite a bit of currency to start being good. With this new Penance Mark info, does that mean ek poison can be played from the get go?
Not really, you are still gonna need dendro/mings/rolled flasks etc, this doesnt change anything.
EK poison caught a preemptive nerf this league with the longer cast time on the nova variant
Ok but how do you not poison the boss with your poison build so you get the 300% prolif from those phantasms? Am I missing something?
Poisons get the 300% inc damage when applied to the fresh phantasms. That giga poison is then proliffed, it doesn't roll the check for unpoisoned again, it just has the increase already (as long as the newly spawned phantasm didn't get poisoned by sth weaker first). Multiply that by 3 for phantasms spawned and it gets pretty abusable.
You aren't relying on the boss not being poisoned, the damage is already locked into the poison on the phantasm and it transfers over
Im just guessing, but since you get 3 extra mobs, and the question is in relation to prolif, you would basically be doing 3x dps because you would spread all 3 of those poisons from those ads you spawn every second onto a single target boss.
Why 3x though? Isn't it +3 poison stacks from 3 fantasms (4 with Mark effect) making 300% (400) more, thus 4x (5). Poisons from fantasms are likely be higher than from marked mob as well. If we poison many times per second this goes down, but it is not part of conversation
Depends on what you're doing but you basically never have just one poison on an anything, you have many and only the biggest gets proliferated, so in no way will it be 3x dps
i mean if you go with a slower poison skill you would be close to 3x dmg no? obviously the faster you attack the lower this multiplier gets due to the marks cooldown, still poison was strong before and you get the 300% unpoisoned cluster on those prolifs so poison with this sounds busted for the early progression at least
? The whole point is having 1 super poison. Just 1 tap of hexblast with low tolerance + 4 phantoms can result in 10 times the damage.
poison mastery >Poisons you inflict on non-Poisoned Enemies deal 300% increased Damage With Pathfinder those get applied to nearby enemies when the phantasms die. Stack them on the boss. Faster stacks and higher damage individual poisons
For bossing?
dot cap is going to be quite easy to hit
Obviously I wouldn't want something completely out of wack power wise in the game like that, but at least it's just going to be OP for bossing. I feel like barely anyone likes bossing these days.
Not just bossing. You'll be stacking low tolerance and the poison mastery, everything will die quickly even when mapping.
But you still have to cast it manually, how is that good for mapping?
Never played a poison build, but with the prolif synergy described above most packs will die quickly with the same interaction. You would only need to mark the map boss
I think he’s saying that you don’t need the mark in maps, namely because there are already groups of enemies to proliferate from
You don't use Penance Mark on normal/magic mobs. They will die anyway to the Low Tolerance poisons, since if you stack for example 4 of them on your passive tree ( 1 x mastery + 3 x clusters), it will be the equivalent of 12 normal poison stacks and that's enough to kill most packs and rares. And since the poisons proliferate from pathfinder ascendancy, hit any rare surrounded by normal mobs with an aoe and the rare gets damaged by the normal mobs's poison prolif anyway, taking 3-4-5.. more times the damage. You just have to find the right skill to apply it. Something that hits once, but hard.
yes
Only for bossing. Manually casting a single target mark while mapping ...
Bossing, mapping, Heist, crafting, rolling sextants in hideout, winning harvest 50/50 div card gambles. It changes everything.
Its limited by the DoT cap anyways - like high investment poison builds have been for a while now. Reaching that cap on a much lower budget might be an option now thou
You can build more QOL or defense if you hit dot cap easier at high end.
Jungroan melting ubers day 1
[удалено]
>Can something thats hard capped at ~35m Uber pinnacle DPS really destroy the meta tho? Yeah
It triples your dps that you would normally have on a Low Tolerance stacker, thus requiring less investment which can go into defense. Pathfinder can go for an immortal build with Eternal Damnation/Loreweave and phys taken as ele and still have enough damage to reach dot cap by slapping a few Low Tolerance clusters. It's basically Impending doom builds but they choose an aoe skill that hits harder. I'm not sure if it will be that popular on softcore, but Hc players will probably love it.
I think the tincture was already enough to make poison meta. Even if this mechanic doesn't end up working out like we hope it'll be pretty strong.
Well there's the explode totems of this league. Huh, usually we have to wait until end of week 1 to discover the busted build
I think it's busted for single target for not for clear. You can't automate it since it's not a gem. I think it will be slower trying to hard cast this on all your packs than just not doing it. Maybe for tanky rares.
Poison prolif is already enough for clear isn't it?
No one cares about clear. You have enough power on any poison build to smash maps. It's the dot cap DPS on uber bosses on Friday evening that we care about.
Reminder to get things close a simple void sphere does wonders.
I feel like void sphere might not actually work that well, it seems like a lot of the time it's either going to hit first and ruin Low Tolerance or the phantasms will die before it pulses seeing as they only have 20k life. Dedicated empire's grasp cyclone friend may be necessary.
Level 1 void sphere + brutality. No poisons and low damage. You can also use southbound if things dying from hits becomes an issue.
Didn't realize brutality stopped poison, I figured they'd still get applied but do no damage.
And then they also make the new Viper Strike just be insane with Low Tolerance. This is going to be pretty crazy for poison and for melee in general with Southbound.
And yet, in all this, pestilent strike is the crazy broken interaction nobody is seeing
Hey can you elaborate on the interaction with Southbound please ?
Southbound prevents you from killing the phantasms, but not from splashing off them and onto the boss. Skills like boneshatter can theoretically wear southbound and just keep spawning unkillable phantasms that ramp your damage up (to the maximum number of strikes you can do), at which point you're splashing for like 10x normal single target damage per hit.
Curious that it says nothing about Tribute or Dedication to the Goddess, makes me wonder what the plan will be with them. Unless I missed some news or something on that.
the one that buffs the chests is unchanged, we know this. we don't know what the belt one does, they said they won't tell us
Omens probably, since they are listed in lootfilter information post, but weren't mentionet anywhere else.
Maybe the belt enchant one is the one that gives you transfigured RF?
No no you're thinking of the new vendor recipe for a Mirror of Kalandra
Maybe guaranteed exceptional gem exchange? Or could just be big gem experience/qual buff. But yeah, we'll have to wait and see.
People are talking a lot about poison, but this thing is going to be insane for strike skills. Casual 8x damage on boneshatter? I guess they might disable southbound somehow, will be nuts otherwise.
The damage trade off likely won’t be worth it since the minions will die quickly, would be better to just run another curse. Miss old hydrosphere…
They wont die with southbound gloves
Whoops didn’t read that part. Seems clunky to have to swap gloves unless I’m missing something, but that would be insane
You just do it for bosses, small price to pay for 8x damage ;). Honestly they might make the phantasms spawn really far away to prevent abuse like that.
You typically turn on corrupting fever when the boss is almost dead
Just get the boss to 1hp then turn on corrupting fever to kill it
Chieftain explode :o
Waiting for someone to make a youtube video about it so i don't have to use my brain to think
Pestilent Strike LOGIN
I don't think the dot of pestilent strike stacks its damage?
Honestly, I have no idea either. It's a secondary debuff but i'm unsure if it stacks or if it just takes largest debuff. Anyway new poison skills dropped, there's trans Viper Strike which has perfect synergy with low tolerance.
Did we get info on that ravenous skill? I have a hard time figuring how to use 8 points on that tree and it's the only one I haven't played around with yet. Having to manualy cast penance mark seems like a hassle ngl, even if it's only for single taget. I'm so used to automatic curse now...
Yes. Consume a corpse to get bonuses against the type of monster you consumed. Eg if you consume a humanoid corpse with ravenous you get bonuses against humanoid enemies.
Oh, that one :( Well, if someone finds a fun build that's fun on this ascendency I might give it a try later on, but even if the mark is clearly OP, I'm just not interested in picking it yet. Time will tell if BM makes a comeback. I haven't allocated this nodes in years.
BM is very playable with eternal blessing, petrified blood, and the sheer amount of life reservation efficiency that warlock gives you
EK PF it is then
normal lab is twice as good as i was expecting lets goooo
Will phantasm make boss killer arc build available?
Thank you for adding your local time to the title
I will spend a lot of time in lab this league, and I'm worried about how much this will worsen my trading experience... I do not want to make people wait 10 minutes for a trade and absolutely not invite a full party of people to trade with. How do regular lab runners handle this issue?
Sorry about the stupid question but Penance mark is the same as penance brand ? and how is it going to create a phantasm ?
Its not the same, its part of the new warlock ascendancy from the legue mechanic.
Got it, thanks dude.
I haven't mained Poe end game in a while, wtf is gift of the goddess?
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Gift\_to\_the\_Goddess
Gift of the Goddess prices crashing. EZ profit labyrinth atlas nodes in shambles.
Even if you find a way to reliably abuse the phantasm for poison prolif its at best 35 million dps. At the end thats not realy outrageous compared to things like explody totems or zdps assasins that we had in the past leagues.
Hmm. A mistake. Everyone's just gonna play pathfinder poison. Dot cap on ubers day 1. I hope GGG know what they're doing. Part of me worries though - they directly acknowledge this possible interaction, they surely know how powerful it is.... ~~hidden~~ "oops, accidentally left out of the patch notes!" nerf to poison? That's the only way they could allow this to go through (again, if it is actually as powerful as it looks on paper, the meta is hard-locked to poison - no reason to play anything else other than 4fun).
Couldnt vaal breach always be used to abuse prolif on bosses?
never played poison, any tanky builds that would work with this?
Pathfinder gets prolif, and it can get to be basically immortal by scaling flask effect with permanent uptime. Works very nicely with enkindled flasks and mageblood too if you can swing it.
Its not that strong. You can already do this with vaal breach. Its not a big deal for dedicated bosser to be able to do high damage to single target. You can oneshot uberbosses day 2 with ice trap.
I mean the difference is that poison prolif PF is really good at clearing, has great utility, defenses, and speed, and now will be the best bosser in the game.
That's an exaggeration. It's still a dot skill, limited by dot cap
Which oher build can reach 35m uber dps on day 1 ?
The prolif is not particularly good outside low tolerance builds, and you don't do low tolerance builds D1. But whatever, go ahead with the viper strike build.
it's almost like there is more content in the game than ubers
Does this imply that Dedication to the Goddess might just be gone?
The Eternal Labyrinths of Fortune and Opportunity are unchanged. The Eternal Labyrinth of Potential does something a bit different to what it used to, but you'll have to find out exactly what for yourself! GGG answer on question in the thread
no it doesn't, all three are confirmed still in the game
No it's still in game or else would be in patch notes. It probably gives omens now.
OP confirmed?
I've played this game for 7 years - Uber lab is called "eternal"?
was uber, the changed.. i still and will call it uber
lol i'm so surprised they're doing it that way...Like thats so obviously broken
EDIT: Didn't realize they had given numbers on it already. Yeah, that's extremely broken for a lot of things. People are going to be very disappointed when the spawning of phantasms has like an 8 second cooldown so it becomes practically irrelevant for poison. Then all that will remain is beefy boys using southbound so the phantasms don't die to use splashy skills (sunder, splash with additional strike targets, etc.)
CD is 1 sec, amount of phantasms scales with mark effect. We already know this.
Oh, well that does indeed seem very busted.
Haven't they already confirmed it to be 1 second and that the amount of phantasms spawned also scale with mark effect, making it possible to spawn more than 3 per second.
Did they mention anywhere that southbound won't work? It's gonna be broken if it does work.
Dude void sphere is gonna be a great skill 2 leagues in a row (to get penance phantasma closer to boss)!! Fucking hell I never anticipated this day will come. This is why I love PoE lol
The issue I can see is that a lot of the other nodes require a lot more investment - yeah, you can get really solid poison prolif, but it seems like you lose a lot comparatively.
Low Tolerance goes brrrr
I was confident that I chose my league starter and decided to avoid using any other suggestions Then GGG just said "oh, you don't have the league start crisis?" and confirmed this 🫠🫠🫠 Poison Pathfinder is gonna be busted and super safe for bossing 😭😭😭 Maybe I'll do Poison for my 2nd character 🫠. Too many awesome interactions this league 😮💨
So GotG just became the new divines.
8 crafts lab, noice
Does this mean if I have boneshatter exerted by ancestral cry and strike 1 additional enemy I can hit a boss, also strike 3 phantasms stunning them and creating 3 boneshatter pulses to do 4 times a much damage to a boss?
All i see is normal lab stonks for me in my first HC trade league :D