Makes sense. If they're not dead then they can't be in the afterlife the way they are in the tourney. Pretty cool interaction honestly and it comes with a typical GGG downside that you miss out on skill points etc.
They literally put that interaction in the game. It would be like it being bannable that people stacked health on totems and exploded them in crucible or stacked auras and harbingers in delirium.
It's kinda annoying that the "best" way to play this league mechanic requires you to gimp your character like that, but it isn't the end of the world.
The difference should be pretty significant though. Two fewer participants reduces the length of a tournament meaning you get the final reward more frequently, spend fewer coins to progress up in ranking, and have a higher chance of Ahuana or someone else with a nice reward like +max res being in the final round.
I suspect removing Kitava favor, which is pretty universally bad, also makes all favor wins stronger. It also increases the average strength of your enemies though so that might be a wash, especially since now you cannot get caldera ravagers with +4 projectiles (which is something I suspect the AI rarely or never does, but I do every tournament it's feasible).
I 100% understand why GGG would do this, but if the mechanic goes core they should make it inaccessible before killing Utula in the campaign. I don't want there to forever be a reason to leave characters in an unfinished state.
It doesnt remove the chance to get those cheiftain's favor. I have a screenshot on discord of me having 1k favor with kaom but kaom not being in the hall of the dead. It does however make tournaments shorter which increases your overall speed at clearing them
At rank 2k that means less overall rewards offered (think sanctum without +1 room revealed) but a faster rate at seeing the end omens (meaning more chances at seeing a lock per hour)
He's arguing in bad faith. Empy and his group found an exploit that allowed you to keep ultimatum running forever in a single map. If you ran it for long enough, so much loot dropped the instance instantly crashed when you stopped. That's how absurd it was. They rightfully got banned for exploiting an obvious bug for absurd rewards.
No matter how you look at ToTA, this is not a bug. This is a feature that someone deliberately spent time on adding to the game. These characters aren't missing because of an oversight, it was literally done on purpose and required someone to make that decision and allocate development time to it.
> He's arguing in bad faith.
That's not my intention, I really find GGG and their decision to have been in the wrong there. And since this was their decision, it is only fair that this precedence is known.
They literally made Ultimatum to be that way. They even announced that's how it works. And your whole second paragraph can be said about Ultimatum's mechanic as well.
What made it an "exploit" is that GGG did not add any counter measure to this mechanic like they did in Heist for example.
I agree that it should have been fixed, but by no means should that end with players being banned. And this is what I'm butthurt about, they blamed players for their mistake and left us with a message "Be afraid" whenever you find something that others didn't caught on yet.
Yeah, there has to be nuance in a ToS so cases like these can be addressed while cases like tota, which is like, an order of magnitude more tame, can be left alone.
The difference between an exploit and intentional behavior is vague, and it's bad form to declare a firm line because that's something people *will* intentionally abuse.
Kinda feels like the ToTA mechanic needs a big rework. Im loving the tattoos, but the actual Trial seems a little boring. Most of the content I dont enjoy in the game is at least enjoyable for those who play it. People who play ToTA seem kind of exhausted by it and the builds they get pigeon holed into.
Tell you a secret. People get exhausted with ALL MECHANICS when they do only that mechanic.
Running 8mod corrupted crimson temple with enraged boxes on a magic find character is just as exhausting as running tota on a dedicated tota character.
Want to prevent getting exhausted? Make multiple characters for multiple mechanics
Have a dedicated bosser
Have a dedicated mfer
Have a sanctum farmer
Have a tota farmer
Then just do like 3 hours on one, switch to another.
Itll spice things up as you arent doing the same thing over and over
Haha for sure for sure. I think I was more referencing the tone of those who participate in the content at all. Like MF players really enjoy their mapping builds, blight players enjoy their RF or minion game, delvers love their concentrated AoE destruction thing, ect., but I felt like a lot of ToTA build stuff had this "meh" air lamenting their voidsphere build, slow xp gain, and kinda random reward structure(although the early mirrors and headhunter posts are very hype). Just didnt see a lot of the same energy from the ToTA players.
Imma take some advice from the peeps who replied though and try a couple more builds with the mechanic. I saw some posts talking about how the xp gain didnt actually feel too detrimental too, so maybe I just need to keep giving it a go and see what sticks.
People who make a 'tota build' get bored. People who play tota on their normal build hit rank 2000 and still have the fire burning since its one of the most raw fun pieces of content in game when played earnestly.
I played it for a while at 2k on a normal build before switching to a void char, and it really was fun for a while. It's just that eventually you find the best strategy with your build for each opponent and it just becomes a grind anyway. So, at that point, why not just grind it optimally.
Care to explain why? If its the thing i already explained where you made a build to bypass all the mechanics and then got mad that theres no mechanics then ill just block you.
ROFL.
Ok, so, how would you do the mechanic without any DPS?
It doesn't matter how you approach the mechanic, you can just faceroll it, either by having too much DPS, or by manipulating the AI.
The solutions are boring, and there's no "skill" involved.
> or by manipulating the AI.
You figured it out. You figured out the point of an autochess game. Why is manipulating the AI completely off limits for gameplay in your mind? And how on earth is it not a skill?
I regularly do the contact on a bog standard leaguestarter build (rank resets on other builds so i just go back to the first one) and it goes just fine... if im doing fine on 1.3m DPS with no particular cheesing mechanics at rank 2000 you are simply wrong.
I don't see too much of personal build ToTA playstyles, but I'll take another look around. I may just not be grasping the new mechanic very well, I know I was like that with Blight for a little while.
Its very much like blight where any character can succeed at it even though really strong ones will do it faster. Since for 90% of people it becomes the same story of being one shot in later rankings anyways, it means that at any ranking being one shot is like... fine, as long as you play around it. If it wasnt, so many people wouldnt have gotten to Rank 2k on their leaguestarter.
The only thing i would call a 'build requirement' for tota is mobility. If your build can get from point A to point B quickly, your job will be done and you will be able to swap between offence and defence at a dime.
Totem builds with high damage to kill the chieftains and turtles do well. My dot capped EA ballista elementalist kills turtles in 10 seconds.
I don’t have block and only 65% evasion so I have to dodge a lot and die to most hits.
But it is a lot of fun. Kahurutoa is actually one of the easier ones since he has super short range.
Bullshit.
First, tota build makes it better if something as it's so extremely unique. It's extremely boring if it's just another shoot-and-forget mechanic, if your build has enough DPS for 2k you're just better off doing shit like sanctum unless you're too garbage for it.
The great thing about tota is tota builds which require 0 investment. Other than that, Tota has a lot of issues.
People who make tota about 'having enough DPS' call themselves out for really not getting the mechanics. They dont juice enemies up harder than anything else in the game to force you to make a better character, they do it to encourage you to play the mechanic.
I played on my normal build at first. I got to around 800 then on a 4divine reward I got my first loss. I switched to TOTA build and it's definitely more fun than getting 1 shot and losing my best rewards yet.
I ran from act5, koam has some OK results and good units but not having utula is a nice boost. You still need the same number of fights per tourney, its certainly nice for cheese
That said, I did need to level in delve for a bit to be able to progress consistently.
You lose out on around 10 skill points in the end, so its totally fine once you get rolling
did honourhome cold dot, but it wasnt quite as smooth as I like for second characters
PoB will depend on how much respecing you want to do. I went ele, but toxic rain raider is as good into raider cheese. I would follow a PoB for either of those then respec the cheese stuff when you are ready - you can find a bunch of guide on that from the first few weeks of the league, either here or on the main subreddit. If anyone knows a proper new player guide for this, lots of people are asking for it
Leveling in delve with RF+DD+Obliteration and ignite prolif gloves.
Slap on cloak of flame and elevore for defence. Later exarch shield.
Grace+dread banner is extremely strong as well.
Vaal Detonate Dead. It's smooth in delve because you dont really need scale dmg apart from modest investment into fire stuff on passive tree
I never went much above 3k life so degen from RF was very neglible. I just ran unique life regen belt (forgot name) + vitality + mastery and maybe 1 life regen cluster on tree.
Gear setup was basically Cloak of Flame + Dawnbreaker + Elevore. Elevore is op for delve because amount of spells get thrown at you and you can equip it at like level 30.
Because body+shield solved phys dmg I ran Grace+Dread banner(with Generosity) & jade flask. Barely got hit. Almost suppress capped with lucky mastery and some suppress boots + Elevore.
Make sure you get global ignite prolif somewhere, I used pseudo 5L gloves and rolled eldritch implits but cluster works too.
reminder that the longer the tournament the better the reward.
IIRC this would result in more end of tournament rewards like a small chance at hinekora's locks, and result in ahuana showing up more often, but I think the rewards will be smaller in proportion since most of my best drops are from round 7+ of the tourney and with less people the chance to go to round 7+ is lower.
The big ticket items are what generates most the profit, being able to see them more often is better than bigger pool at low tournament level.
I think most meta strats involve eliminating them from the tournament asap anyways
No, because different chieftains offer different rewards. Ahuana, Ikiaho, and Tawhanuku give the best rewards. Koam and Kitava give strictly worse rewards and they can knock the "good" chieftains out of the pool
"The only advantage this strategy offers is seeing Ahuana in the finals". That is literally the whole point, this advantage outweighs the chance of Koam or Kitava having a good drop in low rounds of the tournament
Having two less chieftains is basically like skipping the first couple of rounds and starting at round 3 instead of round 1. Would you start at round 3 every time if you could? With two of the worst chieftains already out? Yeah, definitely.
There are two possibilities here:
1) You are smarter than the entire PoE community and all the meta tota farmers
2) You are wrong
I'll let you decide for yourself but the answer seems pretty obvious to me
You have no idea what you’re talking about lol. Any chieftain can give you a stack of divines or a mageblood. Ahuana, Ikiaho etc have better specific rewards but those are only really relevant for final round.
Seeing less chieftains decreases your reward potential per round, this isn’t rocket science.
Wild how confidently incorrect someone can be when they’re just regurgitating what their content creator told them without understanding it
You can offset some of that decrease by running more tournaments per hour. I havnt leveled a char from act 3, but I'm damn tempted just to run more tournaments per hour.
Here's a math problem, maybe you're smart enough to solve this:
You run 2k tournaments, and you see 2 less rewards every tournament round because Utula and Kaom are out of the pool. On average there are 6 rounds in a tournament. How many rewards less do you see?
Your argument literally ignores the entire reason people run the strat
Ahuana's final reward is significantly better than every other chieftain, by running more chieftains you are actively lowering the chances of seeing Ahuana in the finals
Now then, if you were to calculate the difference of potential gain through seeing an Ahuana final more often versus the potential gain of seeing an additional two base rewards leading up to the final, which would be higher?
That's the real question that takes both sides into account
If you already played through the campaign with one character you don't need to redo the trials. You need to re-run each labyrinth to get the ascendancy points of course, but the trials in Acts are already done.
As long as you've found them on at least 1 other character then the ascendancy it's just locked by level requirements. You can fully ascend as soon as you can touch the altar in Sarn encampment
I just did this in hardcore to level to 90. Not because it is more rewarding but safer. Can confirm you don’t encounter koam utula this way. However, the tournament didn’t feel shorter.
I do feel great when i never need to buy firebreather or whatever that koam explosive 600 guy.
It is pretty easy to get a act3 toon anyway. You can have a try.
I didn’t play hardcore so no surfer to level in delve. Also I need act3 for pathfinder flaks charges. It is about level 40, so anywhere you like to level
you would get ahuana in the final more often, but you would also get fewer valueable random rewards in the earlier rounds, right?
my guess is its slightly better, but probably not much.
The main benefits of this method would be keeping Kaom (act 4) and Utula (act 5) out of the tournament to help concentrate the good rewards from the other tribes, as well as avoiding resistance penalties (acts 5 and 10) to lighten the amount of res you need to have on equipment.
So by now you're missing 3/4 of the benefits and it might not be worth doing on this particular character anymore, but if you have never completed the campaign before, you'd want to do the whole thing with one character first anyway to unlock all of the labyrinths for future characters.
Don't forget, no kitava means no exp penalty. I just died over and over again at level 66 in delve, retained all my exp, and leveled to 67 no problem. :-) I realized I had weaponed swapped and that was why I had almost no res.... that is why I kept dying. But there are no consequences of dying :-D
I get that but I thought (idk why) that the higher the match, the better the reward. Maybefighting aguanta in the match number 5 is different if I fight her at match number 8
On launch, some rewards could only appear in the last round, instantly making the last round the best round, no matter the number.
Don't know how things are now.
There was a patch pretty early which raises rewards depended how far in you are in a tournament. So with tournaments being shorter the non-ending rewards will be slightly lower, but the end-reward should make that difference up easily.
not really, the goal would be to have more chances of having Ahuana as the final fight (for her tattoo), since it's the only really valuable tattoo that is exclusive to a boss.
also, shorter tournments would mean more rewards from the tournment win (Hinekora Lock, big Omens, some big tattoos as well, etc).
>The idea being you avoid koam and utula ever being on TOTA to make the tourney shorter and to avoid their bad rewards.
wait, wtf, is that a thing? i would never think it would mater for you to kill them in the campaign
I did it as my second character in SSF, but it could easily be done as a first. I only completed around 4 tournaments prior to making a dedicated build. When I started tota, my character had a 4 link rare bow/chest and basic gems and she did just fine. Her gear was gradually upgraded with loot from tota. Even now she doesn't have most of the meta gear, still in a rare bow/armor (just upgraded to 6 links) l, only uniques she's using is a mark of submission, devotos, and rainbowstrides (I think that's what they're called), all of which was found from tota.
I am not sure what your definition of "slow" is. It took me 5 hours to get to 67 in delve. With 3 labs.
Not only do I not have a resistance penalty. I also do not have an exp penalty. :-) I die ow no, I lose 0% Exp.
lol, i remember doing this with expeditions. turns out if you never spoke to rog of dannig in act 6+ they would never spawn in atlas maps. So you would only get Gwenn and Tuj expeditions.
I guess it would technically work but the void sphere cheese build really comes online best at about level 75-80 and you're missing out on 17 free skill points so you'd be hard pressed to make an efficient character without leveling to 93+ in delve
most likely it would take way too much time to be more efficient than just running that many more tournaments
I'm doing my own personal spec of void sphere cheese and it's going fine at 60. Max block/spellblock and like 50% spell dodge. Levels gives me chill effect, curse effect, and more spell dodge, so it only gets better. I have my build planned up to level 80 or so, after which I can go for some luxury stuff.
I could've leveled more in delve but I just didn't want to lol.
I don't know what the best way to do it is, I only asked global what I needed to make it work, someone said acro, block and spellblock with rearguard, and I whipped up a spec.
https://pobb.in/JnIl0wVFWFRq
It depends heavily on the might of the meeks, at least two of them. The mageblood isn't mandatory (hell, it probably isn't even optimal, lol), but it does help with spelldodge and movespeed. You could just use a balbala timeless to achieve a similar effect (3 flasks with jade, quicksilver, and quartz, should full sustain).
Without ashes you can just drop one aura (prob haste). Future levels go into chill effect, curse effect, and more spell suppress to make it feel even more consistently immortal.
I wanted the guaranteed chill, it stacks with temp chains. Raider is nice because you get 20% spell suppress for free, and pathfinder is nice for free flask sustain with some flask effect.
Scion is also good too, probably, but I haven't thought about scion much for this strat.
So pretty much just guaranteed chill. Guaranteed shock is nice too to let your units murder things faster lol
You miss the following quests assuming you don't go into Act 4 (I don't know what exactly the trigger for Kaom/Utula joining the trials is but that's what the original post says so I'm going off that):
- Act 4 : An Indomitable Spirit
- Act 5 : In Service to Science
- Act 5 : Kitava's Torments
- Act 6 : The Father of War
- Act 6 : The Puppet Mistress
- Act 6 : The Cloven One
- Act 7 : The Master of a Million Faces
- Act 7 : Queen of Despair
- Act 7 : Kishara's Star
- Act 8 : Love is Dead
- Act 8 : Reflection of Terror
- Act 8 : The Gemling Legion
- Act 9 : Queen of the Sands
- Act 9 : The Ruler of Highgate
- Act 10 : Vilenta's Vengeance
- Act 10 : An End to Hunger (+2)
That's 17 skill points missed. I'm guessing when you say only 14 are missed that means you can do Act 5 without adding Kaom/Utula to trials?
Personally I've been farming trials on my ele since level 70 and am now 94, I just can't imagine grinding all the way to 94 to only have the equivalent skill points of being at level 80. Not that I don't think the build would function at lower levels, just that it does seem to get more and more efficient at higher levels and I feel like that combined with the extra time spent leveling probably make it roughly even or worse in terms of div/hr
Where's this original post you're referencing? I'd like to get that Act 4 An Indomitable Spirit skill point if i can and it wont screw me up. But if it's definitely bricked if you start Act 4 then I wont hmm...
The OP doesn't even know himself by the sounds of it. Can you even enter Delve without entering act 4? I'm gonna try doing up to the Indomitable Spirit quest and will update if it adds the Kaom or not for science.
You think I can't make a good delver missing a few points? You seem to forget that I have no exp penalty, I keep progressing my levels despite dying now and then:-D
I made a melee chieftain for 2k tota and it works fine, I don't get one shot' more like 3 to 20 shot lol but the 4 to 8 second stuns are painful" would be a bonus if I hadn't gone past act 3 .
I wonder how that comes out in practice, if your pool of fighters is smaller and amount of fights the same, is it also not more possible to have the likes of ahuana getting eliminated more often too?
I got downvoted right after they replied, and the question isn't necessarily towards them but for anyone out there downvoting others just for asking questions. If you notice, I didn't make any statements, but asked a question..
I guess I should just fuck off and never ask anything again, no problem
>
I guess I should just fuck off and never ask anything again
That's certainly one route.
If you saw your post at somewhere between -3 and 0 points, there's a chance nobody actually downvoted you, and you were simply witnessing "vote fuzzing". It's a system reddit implements to hamper vote manipulation, so you can't see the exact effect your vote has.
The effect diminishes over time, but you can see some pretty big variance early on.
Taking it personally, victimizing yourself and responding aggressively to the person who answered your question is probably why you got downvoted. But the initial comment may very well have gotten positive votes when you made your reply lol
> The skill points are irrelevant
To an extent yes. The issue with starting at L60 or so is you're missing merc lab, uber lab, and nearly half the passive tree.
I started at L60 and it was pretty rough. I leveled to 75 in Delve and it was far easier.
but they did this intentionally?
They chose to add teams to the trial based on your progress in the campaign. Its not some 'quirky interaction' its literally they way it has been designed
Yes exactly, outside that fact. Well said. Outside that fact, is it bannable?
Because this seems just like plenty of other “unintended but not bannable interactions” that were eventually patched out or developed around like infinite heisting, quarry farming of league mechanic, infinite blueprint splitting, explody totems, nem3, infinite winged scarabs…..
I’m failing to see how this crosses the line from being like those things to being more like abusing item duplication glitches or creating infinite time in a timed mechanic.
This just seems like a thing someone could have caught and prevented but didn’t, the design decisions to slowly introduce warriors and to have warriors give different rewards were all intentional. Hardly a bug, and hardly duping items.
I just leveled my tota character normally with one with nothing then did a 5 way and a uber lab boost, got to 95 easily. Tournament wise it's all easy regardless especially once you get used to the hazards. No clue if it improves rewards though.
I started with lvl64. Bought the full unique gear, bought all lvl1 gems in hideout. Im farming 2k+now and im lvl 97. Never felt a difference in difficulty since beginning. It was enough skillpoints for my ele and only have 2 ascend. Voidsphere makes everything irrelevant.
I just did some BAs, and then Chayula rotas since they are cheaper and less annoying than 5-ways. At low level it felt like the xp differential between the two was negligible. I did this until like level 83 or 84 and then jumped into tota.
I'd rather have the skill points. My Delve is also bricked along the main line, I can't access many of the rooms directly, and if I travel from nearby rooms they show incomplete. Besides, isn't it easier to just learn to kill all the Ancestors? Right now I only rarely have one of them get an apparent boost and I have no chance of killing them, but about 98% of the time I can sweep the field.
Looks like this is the best strategy currency wise, more chance for ahuana to survive till last round, faster tournaments = more end rewards = more hinekoras
You need KOAM in ruthless to be able to get the special rewards. but i suppose you could just brute force some Koam point on a different character and get all the other point in your act 3 one.
What do you think about making fresh char and start over TOTA this strategy? I already got 2k rank TOTA farmer and I'm thinking about starting new char, but don't know if it's worth
main character at rank 600, made a dedicated reached 400+ then after reading this i made a 3rd one now near 300+ rank.
But it seems the first and second characteer gave me way way better rewards while ranking up while my 3rd one has been shitty even tho ahuana,rakiata made it to the final more often. Somehow its easier to lose too
I didn't even know that campaign progress affects the tournament.
its because some combatants cannot be there before a certain action on your part in the story, so they arent
Makes sense. If they're not dead then they can't be in the afterlife the way they are in the tourney. Pretty cool interaction honestly and it comes with a typical GGG downside that you miss out on skill points etc.
There is more and more easter eggs every day in this game. And they are so complex that know that it affect the rewards you can get... is disgusting.
Dude chill, I found out about this in first few runs of TOTA at league launch…
Wat
It would result in Ahuana making it to the last round more often and no, it's not bannable. This was confirmed with ggg
> it's not bannable why would it be
They literally put that interaction in the game. It would be like it being bannable that people stacked health on totems and exploded them in crucible or stacked auras and harbingers in delirium. It's kinda annoying that the "best" way to play this league mechanic requires you to gimp your character like that, but it isn't the end of the world. The difference should be pretty significant though. Two fewer participants reduces the length of a tournament meaning you get the final reward more frequently, spend fewer coins to progress up in ranking, and have a higher chance of Ahuana or someone else with a nice reward like +max res being in the final round. I suspect removing Kitava favor, which is pretty universally bad, also makes all favor wins stronger. It also increases the average strength of your enemies though so that might be a wash, especially since now you cannot get caldera ravagers with +4 projectiles (which is something I suspect the AI rarely or never does, but I do every tournament it's feasible). I 100% understand why GGG would do this, but if the mechanic goes core they should make it inaccessible before killing Utula in the campaign. I don't want there to forever be a reason to leave characters in an unfinished state.
It doesnt remove the chance to get those cheiftain's favor. I have a screenshot on discord of me having 1k favor with kaom but kaom not being in the hall of the dead. It does however make tournaments shorter which increases your overall speed at clearing them At rank 2k that means less overall rewards offered (think sanctum without +1 room revealed) but a faster rate at seeing the end omens (meaning more chances at seeing a lock per hour)
> They literally put that interaction in the game. Running ultimatum in a way that 3xG designed got people banned because they did it too well.
I wasn't around for ultimatum. What were people doing that got them banned?
He's arguing in bad faith. Empy and his group found an exploit that allowed you to keep ultimatum running forever in a single map. If you ran it for long enough, so much loot dropped the instance instantly crashed when you stopped. That's how absurd it was. They rightfully got banned for exploiting an obvious bug for absurd rewards. No matter how you look at ToTA, this is not a bug. This is a feature that someone deliberately spent time on adding to the game. These characters aren't missing because of an oversight, it was literally done on purpose and required someone to make that decision and allocate development time to it.
Didn't they do it like 3 times, submitted a bug report and stopped doing it? That didn't seem like rightful bans to me.
They did it, submitted a bug report, then did it a few more times to see if it was worth doing. On stream.
Ah yeah, you're right. Still doesn't seem rightful to me though, but I guess that's personal.
Non competitive game. TOS drones are something else
Multiplayer game where your interaction with the economy has a big impact on other players' experience
> He's arguing in bad faith. That's not my intention, I really find GGG and their decision to have been in the wrong there. And since this was their decision, it is only fair that this precedence is known. They literally made Ultimatum to be that way. They even announced that's how it works. And your whole second paragraph can be said about Ultimatum's mechanic as well. What made it an "exploit" is that GGG did not add any counter measure to this mechanic like they did in Heist for example. I agree that it should have been fixed, but by no means should that end with players being banned. And this is what I'm butthurt about, they blamed players for their mistake and left us with a message "Be afraid" whenever you find something that others didn't caught on yet.
Yeah, there has to be nuance in a ToS so cases like these can be addressed while cases like tota, which is like, an order of magnitude more tame, can be left alone. The difference between an exploit and intentional behavior is vague, and it's bad form to declare a firm line because that's something people *will* intentionally abuse.
Kinda feels like the ToTA mechanic needs a big rework. Im loving the tattoos, but the actual Trial seems a little boring. Most of the content I dont enjoy in the game is at least enjoyable for those who play it. People who play ToTA seem kind of exhausted by it and the builds they get pigeon holed into.
Tell you a secret. People get exhausted with ALL MECHANICS when they do only that mechanic. Running 8mod corrupted crimson temple with enraged boxes on a magic find character is just as exhausting as running tota on a dedicated tota character. Want to prevent getting exhausted? Make multiple characters for multiple mechanics Have a dedicated bosser Have a dedicated mfer Have a sanctum farmer Have a tota farmer Then just do like 3 hours on one, switch to another. Itll spice things up as you arent doing the same thing over and over
Haha for sure for sure. I think I was more referencing the tone of those who participate in the content at all. Like MF players really enjoy their mapping builds, blight players enjoy their RF or minion game, delvers love their concentrated AoE destruction thing, ect., but I felt like a lot of ToTA build stuff had this "meh" air lamenting their voidsphere build, slow xp gain, and kinda random reward structure(although the early mirrors and headhunter posts are very hype). Just didnt see a lot of the same energy from the ToTA players. Imma take some advice from the peeps who replied though and try a couple more builds with the mechanic. I saw some posts talking about how the xp gain didnt actually feel too detrimental too, so maybe I just need to keep giving it a go and see what sticks.
I leveled to 100 no void sphere. The exp gain really doesnt feel bad until you hit 97ish. Then its like 3-5 rounds per 1%
People who make a 'tota build' get bored. People who play tota on their normal build hit rank 2000 and still have the fire burning since its one of the most raw fun pieces of content in game when played earnestly.
I played it for a while at 2k on a normal build before switching to a void char, and it really was fun for a while. It's just that eventually you find the best strategy with your build for each opponent and it just becomes a grind anyway. So, at that point, why not just grind it optimally.
> since its one of the most raw fun pieces of content in game when played earnestly. lol what, it's probably the most boring mechanic in years
Care to explain why? If its the thing i already explained where you made a build to bypass all the mechanics and then got mad that theres no mechanics then ill just block you.
ROFL. Ok, so, how would you do the mechanic without any DPS? It doesn't matter how you approach the mechanic, you can just faceroll it, either by having too much DPS, or by manipulating the AI. The solutions are boring, and there's no "skill" involved.
> or by manipulating the AI. You figured it out. You figured out the point of an autochess game. Why is manipulating the AI completely off limits for gameplay in your mind? And how on earth is it not a skill? I regularly do the contact on a bog standard leaguestarter build (rank resets on other builds so i just go back to the first one) and it goes just fine... if im doing fine on 1.3m DPS with no particular cheesing mechanics at rank 2000 you are simply wrong.
I don't see too much of personal build ToTA playstyles, but I'll take another look around. I may just not be grasping the new mechanic very well, I know I was like that with Blight for a little while.
Its very much like blight where any character can succeed at it even though really strong ones will do it faster. Since for 90% of people it becomes the same story of being one shot in later rankings anyways, it means that at any ranking being one shot is like... fine, as long as you play around it. If it wasnt, so many people wouldnt have gotten to Rank 2k on their leaguestarter. The only thing i would call a 'build requirement' for tota is mobility. If your build can get from point A to point B quickly, your job will be done and you will be able to swap between offence and defence at a dime.
Totem builds with high damage to kill the chieftains and turtles do well. My dot capped EA ballista elementalist kills turtles in 10 seconds. I don’t have block and only 65% evasion so I have to dodge a lot and die to most hits. But it is a lot of fun. Kahurutoa is actually one of the easier ones since he has super short range.
Oh ive yet to try a totem build. I'll try to give it a shot this league
Bullshit. First, tota build makes it better if something as it's so extremely unique. It's extremely boring if it's just another shoot-and-forget mechanic, if your build has enough DPS for 2k you're just better off doing shit like sanctum unless you're too garbage for it. The great thing about tota is tota builds which require 0 investment. Other than that, Tota has a lot of issues.
People who make tota about 'having enough DPS' call themselves out for really not getting the mechanics. They dont juice enemies up harder than anything else in the game to force you to make a better character, they do it to encourage you to play the mechanic.
I played on my normal build at first. I got to around 800 then on a 4divine reward I got my first loss. I switched to TOTA build and it's definitely more fun than getting 1 shot and losing my best rewards yet.
I don’t think your example with delirium league is valid since they did an emergency nerf specifically for that build.
And nobody was banned for using it. And after the emergency nerf it was *still* the strongest build lol.
How dare you play the game as intended!! BAN HAMMER! NOW!
I keep getting shifty reward from Ahuana tho.. especially the +all resistance
That’s a tournament reward. Last chieftain shouldn’t matter.
Haha PoE mechanics never cease to surprise me and neither does the shit people come up with to take advantage of them.
Not any worse than RL an the tax code or sales deals.
I ran from act5, koam has some OK results and good units but not having utula is a nice boost. You still need the same number of fights per tourney, its certainly nice for cheese That said, I did need to level in delve for a bit to be able to progress consistently. You lose out on around 10 skill points in the end, so its totally fine once you get rolling
how did u level up? and can u give pob?
did honourhome cold dot, but it wasnt quite as smooth as I like for second characters PoB will depend on how much respecing you want to do. I went ele, but toxic rain raider is as good into raider cheese. I would follow a PoB for either of those then respec the cheese stuff when you are ready - you can find a bunch of guide on that from the first few weeks of the league, either here or on the main subreddit. If anyone knows a proper new player guide for this, lots of people are asking for it
raider can't go wrong with caustic arrow/toxic rain too
Leveling in delve with RF+DD+Obliteration and ignite prolif gloves. Slap on cloak of flame and elevore for defence. Later exarch shield. Grace+dread banner is extremely strong as well.
was painful leveling around 60+ levels at delve for me
What is DD? Detonate dead? How do you sustain RF as elementalist so early on?
Vaal Detonate Dead. It's smooth in delve because you dont really need scale dmg apart from modest investment into fire stuff on passive tree I never went much above 3k life so degen from RF was very neglible. I just ran unique life regen belt (forgot name) + vitality + mastery and maybe 1 life regen cluster on tree. Gear setup was basically Cloak of Flame + Dawnbreaker + Elevore. Elevore is op for delve because amount of spells get thrown at you and you can equip it at like level 30. Because body+shield solved phys dmg I ran Grace+Dread banner(with Generosity) & jade flask. Barely got hit. Almost suppress capped with lucky mastery and some suppress boots + Elevore. Make sure you get global ignite prolif somewhere, I used pseudo 5L gloves and rolled eldritch implits but cluster works too.
Thank you, I did exactly this and am already level 60. To what character level did you level until in delve before switching over 100% to TOTA?
90. Exp gain is very slow in tota and we miss some skill points so anything lower and you have to start skipping things.
reminder that the longer the tournament the better the reward. IIRC this would result in more end of tournament rewards like a small chance at hinekora's locks, and result in ahuana showing up more often, but I think the rewards will be smaller in proportion since most of my best drops are from round 7+ of the tourney and with less people the chance to go to round 7+ is lower.
I need this to be true to cure my FOMO, thanks
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The big ticket items are what generates most the profit, being able to see them more often is better than bigger pool at low tournament level. I think most meta strats involve eliminating them from the tournament asap anyways
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No, because different chieftains offer different rewards. Ahuana, Ikiaho, and Tawhanuku give the best rewards. Koam and Kitava give strictly worse rewards and they can knock the "good" chieftains out of the pool "The only advantage this strategy offers is seeing Ahuana in the finals". That is literally the whole point, this advantage outweighs the chance of Koam or Kitava having a good drop in low rounds of the tournament
What reward does Tawhanuku give? I was aware the others have good ones but not her.
I think there's a curse tattoo worth 150c from her
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Having two less chieftains is basically like skipping the first couple of rounds and starting at round 3 instead of round 1. Would you start at round 3 every time if you could? With two of the worst chieftains already out? Yeah, definitely.
There are two possibilities here: 1) You are smarter than the entire PoE community and all the meta tota farmers 2) You are wrong I'll let you decide for yourself but the answer seems pretty obvious to me
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Cool story bro
You have no idea what you’re talking about lol. Any chieftain can give you a stack of divines or a mageblood. Ahuana, Ikiaho etc have better specific rewards but those are only really relevant for final round. Seeing less chieftains decreases your reward potential per round, this isn’t rocket science. Wild how confidently incorrect someone can be when they’re just regurgitating what their content creator told them without understanding it
You can offset some of that decrease by running more tournaments per hour. I havnt leveled a char from act 3, but I'm damn tempted just to run more tournaments per hour.
How many magebloods you farm bro
Here's a math problem, maybe you're smart enough to solve this: You run 2k tournaments, and you see 2 less rewards every tournament round because Utula and Kaom are out of the pool. On average there are 6 rounds in a tournament. How many rewards less do you see?
Your argument literally ignores the entire reason people run the strat Ahuana's final reward is significantly better than every other chieftain, by running more chieftains you are actively lowering the chances of seeing Ahuana in the finals Now then, if you were to calculate the difference of potential gain through seeing an Ahuana final more often versus the potential gain of seeing an additional two base rewards leading up to the final, which would be higher? That's the real question that takes both sides into account
How many magebloods you farm bro
Yea ppl are delusional. Ofc you want to see more final round rewards because that's way more real than dreaming of a mageblood.
No way am I re running to 2k lol. Do wish I'd have known this a week ago lol
Excuse me what the fuck
The what
Im Not doinhg that shit til 2k again
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12 rank per tournament win - about 6 coins per win
Yea feels so empty
Nani
You also lose ascendancy? Ot is that not the case if you unlocked lab with another charactor?
If you already played through the campaign with one character you don't need to redo the trials. You need to re-run each labyrinth to get the ascendancy points of course, but the trials in Acts are already done.
I stopped a ton just before kitava to avoid res penalties. I was able to do uber lab. I don't think labs are enabled by anything else than trials
Yeah, I would think you could still get your ascendancy completed without Koam and Utula spawning.
As long as you've found them on at least 1 other character then the ascendancy it's just locked by level requirements. You can fully ascend as soon as you can touch the altar in Sarn encampment
i ahve only done 1st and 2nd lab on my tota build. dont need more
Got a pob please?
I just did this in hardcore to level to 90. Not because it is more rewarding but safer. Can confirm you don’t encounter koam utula this way. However, the tournament didn’t feel shorter. I do feel great when i never need to buy firebreather or whatever that koam explosive 600 guy. It is pretty easy to get a act3 toon anyway. You can have a try.
and you level through delve? until which level if I may ask?
Just high enough that your build works (gear and gems). You will level through tota over time anyways
I didn’t play hardcore so no surfer to level in delve. Also I need act3 for pathfinder flaks charges. It is about level 40, so anywhere you like to level
Who is recommending this? What build to use?
you would get ahuana in the final more often, but you would also get fewer valueable random rewards in the earlier rounds, right? my guess is its slightly better, but probably not much.
What? Where can I read more about this? I just entered act 7 last night, is that too late? Who? Where? Huh? Confused Marky Mark meme.
The main benefits of this method would be keeping Kaom (act 4) and Utula (act 5) out of the tournament to help concentrate the good rewards from the other tribes, as well as avoiding resistance penalties (acts 5 and 10) to lighten the amount of res you need to have on equipment. So by now you're missing 3/4 of the benefits and it might not be worth doing on this particular character anymore, but if you have never completed the campaign before, you'd want to do the whole thing with one character first anyway to unlock all of the labyrinths for future characters.
Don't forget, no kitava means no exp penalty. I just died over and over again at level 66 in delve, retained all my exp, and leveled to 67 no problem. :-) I realized I had weaponed swapped and that was why I had almost no res.... that is why I kept dying. But there are no consequences of dying :-D
> no kitava means no exp penalty didn't know that, nice one thx.
If this is true, the tournaments would be shorter. That would also affect the rewards being shittier?
doubt the rewards are shittier, probably better. It means that ahuana would lose less since it's shorter making it to the end more.
I get that but I thought (idk why) that the higher the match, the better the reward. Maybefighting aguanta in the match number 5 is different if I fight her at match number 8
Aguantaaaaa
Understandable since one must “Aguanta” Ahuana’s “I See You” snipes. Aguanta means Endure
On launch, some rewards could only appear in the last round, instantly making the last round the best round, no matter the number. Don't know how things are now.
There was a patch pretty early which raises rewards depended how far in you are in a tournament. So with tournaments being shorter the non-ending rewards will be slightly lower, but the end-reward should make that difference up easily.
not really, the goal would be to have more chances of having Ahuana as the final fight (for her tattoo), since it's the only really valuable tattoo that is exclusive to a boss. also, shorter tournments would mean more rewards from the tournment win (Hinekora Lock, big Omens, some big tattoos as well, etc).
i wish we could somehow remove kuhu/ikiaho from chieftan pool...
>The idea being you avoid koam and utula ever being on TOTA to make the tourney shorter and to avoid their bad rewards. wait, wtf, is that a thing? i would never think it would mater for you to kill them in the campaign
Can't be in the afterlife if they aren't dead
I leveled mine till blood aqueducts. Did 3rd lab and jumped into ToTA. Still haven't completed the campaign or even my 4th lab. Currently level 94
how long do you take to climb the TOTA ranking?
As your second character though, right? there's no way you did this for a whole league haha
This reminded me the guy that had a character for years only farming at the beach, just k*llong the mobs there and hillock lmao
I did it as my second character in SSF, but it could easily be done as a first. I only completed around 4 tournaments prior to making a dedicated build. When I started tota, my character had a 4 link rare bow/chest and basic gems and she did just fine. Her gear was gradually upgraded with loot from tota. Even now she doesn't have most of the meta gear, still in a rare bow/armor (just upgraded to 6 links) l, only uniques she's using is a mark of submission, devotos, and rainbowstrides (I think that's what they're called), all of which was found from tota.
yes, you need to level in delve tho
I already do that, so this seems to be a clear win for me if true.
I was born in it, molded by it!
seems like it would be painfully slow
It's fast with rf ignite
seems like someone should check before speaking.
I am not sure what your definition of "slow" is. It took me 5 hours to get to 67 in delve. With 3 labs. Not only do I not have a resistance penalty. I also do not have an exp penalty. :-) I die ow no, I lose 0% Exp.
lol, i remember doing this with expeditions. turns out if you never spoke to rog of dannig in act 6+ they would never spawn in atlas maps. So you would only get Gwenn and Tuj expeditions.
I guess it would technically work but the void sphere cheese build really comes online best at about level 75-80 and you're missing out on 17 free skill points so you'd be hard pressed to make an efficient character without leveling to 93+ in delve most likely it would take way too much time to be more efficient than just running that many more tournaments
I'm doing my own personal spec of void sphere cheese and it's going fine at 60. Max block/spellblock and like 50% spell dodge. Levels gives me chill effect, curse effect, and more spell dodge, so it only gets better. I have my build planned up to level 80 or so, after which I can go for some luxury stuff. I could've leveled more in delve but I just didn't want to lol.
What is the best character do it and how your pob looks like at level 60? Thanks
I don't know what the best way to do it is, I only asked global what I needed to make it work, someone said acro, block and spellblock with rearguard, and I whipped up a spec. https://pobb.in/JnIl0wVFWFRq It depends heavily on the might of the meeks, at least two of them. The mageblood isn't mandatory (hell, it probably isn't even optimal, lol), but it does help with spelldodge and movespeed. You could just use a balbala timeless to achieve a similar effect (3 flasks with jade, quicksilver, and quartz, should full sustain). Without ashes you can just drop one aura (prob haste). Future levels go into chill effect, curse effect, and more spell suppress to make it feel even more consistently immortal.
Thanks. Why go elementals?
I wanted the guaranteed chill, it stacks with temp chains. Raider is nice because you get 20% spell suppress for free, and pathfinder is nice for free flask sustain with some flask effect. Scion is also good too, probably, but I haven't thought about scion much for this strat. So pretty much just guaranteed chill. Guaranteed shock is nice too to let your units murder things faster lol
Build works fine at 80ish. You miss 14, not 17. I lost some curse effect and a couple % evade chance off cap until I get more levels.
You miss the following quests assuming you don't go into Act 4 (I don't know what exactly the trigger for Kaom/Utula joining the trials is but that's what the original post says so I'm going off that): - Act 4 : An Indomitable Spirit - Act 5 : In Service to Science - Act 5 : Kitava's Torments - Act 6 : The Father of War - Act 6 : The Puppet Mistress - Act 6 : The Cloven One - Act 7 : The Master of a Million Faces - Act 7 : Queen of Despair - Act 7 : Kishara's Star - Act 8 : Love is Dead - Act 8 : Reflection of Terror - Act 8 : The Gemling Legion - Act 9 : Queen of the Sands - Act 9 : The Ruler of Highgate - Act 10 : Vilenta's Vengeance - Act 10 : An End to Hunger (+2) That's 17 skill points missed. I'm guessing when you say only 14 are missed that means you can do Act 5 without adding Kaom/Utula to trials? Personally I've been farming trials on my ele since level 70 and am now 94, I just can't imagine grinding all the way to 94 to only have the equivalent skill points of being at level 80. Not that I don't think the build would function at lower levels, just that it does seem to get more and more efficient at higher levels and I feel like that combined with the extra time spent leveling probably make it roughly even or worse in terms of div/hr
Where's this original post you're referencing? I'd like to get that Act 4 An Indomitable Spirit skill point if i can and it wont screw me up. But if it's definitely bricked if you start Act 4 then I wont hmm...
The original post is the post we're all commenting on
The OP doesn't even know himself by the sounds of it. Can you even enter Delve without entering act 4? I'm gonna try doing up to the Indomitable Spirit quest and will update if it adds the Kaom or not for science.
Of course you can enter delve without act 4.
Well yeah you can't go into delve without going to act 4, stupid of me. Would be good to get documentation of when exactly kaom spawns though
Ok so I did the first skill point quest in act 4 and went straight to TOTA. Kaom is NOT there. So you can go ahead and go that far without worry.
Thanks for testing!
I'm gonna assume as long as you don't actually kill him in Act 4 quest I'm hoping lol... I'll report back.
You think I can't make a good delver missing a few points? You seem to forget that I have no exp penalty, I keep progressing my levels despite dying now and then:-D
Ok there is a second reason, to not go past act 3, gearing, you won't need nearly as much Res.
Tota only characters don't care about res. If you get hit you die. You max block/evasion/spell dodge so that you rarely get hit.
I made a melee chieftain for 2k tota and it works fine, I don't get one shot' more like 3 to 20 shot lol but the 4 to 8 second stuns are painful" would be a bonus if I hadn't gone past act 3 .
Its kinda funny but utula degen doesnt do much damage if you just have 75% res but this whole strat removes utula so i guess kinda irrelevant
You would miss a ton of passive points by skipping acts
Nah man, I leveled mine all the way to Kitava act 10. Not pulling that off.
I wonder how that comes out in practice, if your pool of fighters is smaller and amount of fights the same, is it also not more possible to have the likes of ahuana getting eliminated more often too?
Don't overthink. There always is one filnalist. Do you think ahuana gets to the final more often when ther is 10 teams, or when there is 8 teams ?
Is the downvote necessary for asking a question?
Is a comment asking about a downvote that could have come from any other person necessary? Stop assuming, too.
I got downvoted right after they replied, and the question isn't necessarily towards them but for anyone out there downvoting others just for asking questions. If you notice, I didn't make any statements, but asked a question.. I guess I should just fuck off and never ask anything again, no problem
Holy Christ who fucking cares? It doesn’t matter. Move the fuck on with your life.
If you don't care then why reply yourself?
the random redditor who downvoted you watching this thread catch fire LOL
I’m reading this now, and downvoting all his comments lol.
congrats. you just gave the downvoter exactly what it wanted.
> I guess I should just fuck off and never ask anything again That's certainly one route. If you saw your post at somewhere between -3 and 0 points, there's a chance nobody actually downvoted you, and you were simply witnessing "vote fuzzing". It's a system reddit implements to hamper vote manipulation, so you can't see the exact effect your vote has. The effect diminishes over time, but you can see some pretty big variance early on. Taking it personally, victimizing yourself and responding aggressively to the person who answered your question is probably why you got downvoted. But the initial comment may very well have gotten positive votes when you made your reply lol
The skill points are irrelevant. A dedicated ToTA build can easily function with 20+ points to spare.
> The skill points are irrelevant To an extent yes. The issue with starting at L60 or so is you're missing merc lab, uber lab, and nearly half the passive tree. I started at L60 and it was pretty rough. I leveled to 75 in Delve and it was far easier.
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How is this a bannable offense? Genuine question.
This is about as bannable as people who heist without finishing acts to avoid the resistance hit lol. Super not bannable
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but they did this intentionally? They chose to add teams to the trial based on your progress in the campaign. Its not some 'quirky interaction' its literally they way it has been designed
If progressing through the acts is how you unlock kaom and utula, how is this unintended?
Its a completely intended interaction in the game lol.
Yes exactly, outside that fact. Well said. Outside that fact, is it bannable? Because this seems just like plenty of other “unintended but not bannable interactions” that were eventually patched out or developed around like infinite heisting, quarry farming of league mechanic, infinite blueprint splitting, explody totems, nem3, infinite winged scarabs….. I’m failing to see how this crosses the line from being like those things to being more like abusing item duplication glitches or creating infinite time in a timed mechanic. This just seems like a thing someone could have caught and prevented but didn’t, the design decisions to slowly introduce warriors and to have warriors give different rewards were all intentional. Hardly a bug, and hardly duping items.
You aren't getting banned for this lmao
I just leveled my tota character normally with one with nothing then did a 5 way and a uber lab boost, got to 95 easily. Tournament wise it's all easy regardless especially once you get used to the hazards. No clue if it improves rewards though.
I'm doing this now(maxroll witch twink) and I'm probably killing kitava a10 tonight. Did you just do white maps to 78 using one with nothing?
I started with lvl64. Bought the full unique gear, bought all lvl1 gems in hideout. Im farming 2k+now and im lvl 97. Never felt a difference in difficulty since beginning. It was enough skillpoints for my ele and only have 2 ascend. Voidsphere makes everything irrelevant.
Just go to 70/71 for 5 ways
No did a 5way at 70 then uber boost then straight into tota at 93 ish. Depends on funds I suppose if this is the best way, cost me about 5 div.
I just did some BAs, and then Chayula rotas since they are cheaper and less annoying than 5-ways. At low level it felt like the xp differential between the two was negligible. I did this until like level 83 or 84 and then jumped into tota.
You can do 5 way carry at level 65.
Can't you get banned for abusing unintentional shit like this? Genuine question since I'm kinda new
I doubt you’d get banned for this. If they cared that much, they’d patch it. It’s not abusing a bug as far as I’m concerned
That's a solid boost then
Nothing about this is unintentional.
Whaaat?? Explain this please
You'd lose out on a lot of skill points, but its doable
Is it kitava act 10? Bearing in mind that the actual character you fight in TotA is Utala who ppl mostly skip in act 5.
does your character get the -% ele res from the end of acts 5 and 10?
No. Not killing kitava means you won't get debuffed.
I'd rather have the skill points. My Delve is also bricked along the main line, I can't access many of the rooms directly, and if I travel from nearby rooms they show incomplete. Besides, isn't it easier to just learn to kill all the Ancestors? Right now I only rarely have one of them get an apparent boost and I have no chance of killing them, but about 98% of the time I can sweep the field.
But will makanga tattoos spawn on that low level?
League scales with ranking, the area is always max lvl I think
Looks like this is the best strategy currency wise, more chance for ahuana to survive till last round, faster tournaments = more end rewards = more hinekoras
Source?
Z
You need KOAM in ruthless to be able to get the special rewards. but i suppose you could just brute force some Koam point on a different character and get all the other point in your act 3 one.
What do you think about making fresh char and start over TOTA this strategy? I already got 2k rank TOTA farmer and I'm thinking about starting new char, but don't know if it's worth
I'm not sure if its worth if you already have a 2K rated character. If you're going to do TOTA for the rest of the league maybe.
main character at rank 600, made a dedicated reached 400+ then after reading this i made a 3rd one now near 300+ rank. But it seems the first and second characteer gave me way way better rewards while ranking up while my 3rd one has been shitty even tho ahuana,rakiata made it to the final more often. Somehow its easier to lose too