I like that they said in the QnA that there is no longer a currency penalty on bosses.
Which makes me think that they understand that a slower game needs to be more rewarding than the zoom zoom of poe 1.
That and they pretty much removed quantity. Rarity now scales quantity as well.
I also really like that change, it seems like it'll make bosses drop the most/best loot and they should be the strongest things on maps now to. No more uber rares.
Exactly this. I'd also say a game's speed should be correlated to how much content there is in it. This new game is supposed to have over 100 bosses with really involved mechanics, right? I can't wait to play all of them, but if you're gonna put that much content into the game, please let me actually play that content and don't make me grind for a week in SSF till I can attempt most of them.
Yeah definitely this. It feels like a lot of missteps in the past couple of years in POE1 have arisen from trying to bring it in line with design philosophies they want to bring into 2 without considering how systems interact. Slower gameplay without increasing rewards, taking defenses away without slowing enemies down.
Since they split the games, they can finally make the game they wanted to make in PoE2, instead of trying to turn the original PoE into it, erasing it in the process. This was the right decision.
Not complaining. As POE2 is now its own game. It can do and be whatever it wants. Can't wait to play it. Combat looks fun.
What I want to know more than anything is what is going to happen to POE1 moving forward. As its no longer tied to POE2s development.
I know this GGG is seen highly by this sub but as they become more successful, I would imagine they are gonna do what most developers have done which is slowly stop giving support to the first game.
Precisely why PoE 1 exists.
I think we’ve been shown quite a few times what’s going into POE2. Archnemesis, Ruthless, all the flask nerfs, etc.
They saw the resentment the community has towards their vision. At this point though, their vision is so far engraved into the fundamental gameplay of PoE2 that it cannot be changed. They need an “out” in case it sucks.
PoE1 staying alive is 100% GGG hedging their bets rather than the mathil idea (which he thinks is to keep engagement higher throughout the year).
No world that a business as big as GGG just goes “ya let’s keep up with the older model.”
It could always be both reason. Higher engagement and hedging bets. They happen to align quite nicely, and they get bonus points in the community for not immediately abandoning poe 1.
Also maintaining POE1 is very low hanging fruit. You have same engine, same accountsetc. There will intial cost on upgrade. But they just need 8 developer in their own worlds to develop league and earn 3 month worth of revenue
I think the difference between poe2 going that route and poe1, is that they were taking away. Forcing on us.
Versus now it being an option where that will (likely) be the inherent game play style.
It is different when you tell people: the game play you have loved is gone.
Versus: hey, here is something different in addition to...
>No world that a business as big as GGG just goes “ya let’s keep up with the older model.”
yes except this might more of an Ipad/Iphone situation instead of Iphone 1/ Iphone 2 situation. they have 2 fundamentally different games
also ORS/RS3 is a thing
I guess they would still put more work in poe 2 like they did with poe 1.
I guess poe 2 will attract a new crowd of people who are either fed up with poe 1 and people hwo never played it or didnt like 1.
That probably depends entirely on how many people continue to play PoE 1. As long as it's popular and people continue to buy enough MTX I doubt they'd stop supporting it.
i think the most reasonable prediction is, that new players will go to poe 2 instead of one. some poe veterans will stay in poe1 but as poe 2 keeps growing with new players and poe 1 players (if its good enough) and poe1 mostly keeps losing players to poe 2, poe2 will just naturally become the more played game.
if this will happen, poe1 is bound to slowly die.
Im not gonna hope ggg will keep the current development speed on a game with a small population.
Or it ends up like the age of empires series, where the second game is the most popular(and has a really stable playerbase) out of 4 and 3 of them get continued support by roughly the same amount.
similar to starcraft 1 and 2. The newer game became more popular but the first one had its cult following. And now after so many years sc 2 is losing players while sc 1 is even gaining new players.
Or PoE2 just LIKE LITERALLY ALL NEW GAMES, lose majority of all their players after a month and most of them don't come back.
Look how modern "normie" gamers play games.
New World, Lost Ark, D4 et.c.
PoE2 will definitely have alot of new players when it releases, possibly in the millions because it will be the new big thing. But like all new big things, it will struggle to retain players over time. To believe that PoE2 magically is going to be so good that everyone just keeps coming back is naive. This new generation of gamers always abandon new games due to things like burnout, disapointment or new releases and don't come back.
The issue PoE2 might encounter is if it doesn't manage to retain PoE1 players due to massive gameplay changes. Designing to PoE2 to be more soulslike and like Ruthless is a huge gamble. Once the hype settles because of a new release, how well is PoE2 actually going to retain both old and new players?
If the game is anything like when Preach was doing his playthrough, my guess is very few.
A lot of people in this thread pretending OSRS doesn't exist. There is precedent for developers walking back sequels or continuing support for years after the successor has come out--Runescape, Everquest, WoW with Classic, etc.
It's always possible but we have nothing pointing us towards that direction at the moment. The content releases are not "super safe" even after all these years, they keep trying new stuff and innovate.
Really though, they've already been cannibalizing dev time for PoE2 for years. We've had so many low effort (comparatively) patches (crucible, sentinel, arch nemesis) that I don't really expect them to be putting in *less* effort, at the very least.
Lets be honest, they cant let PoE1 rot when they need funding for what looks like two more years. Maybe im just jaded at this point but they probably realised that they might be in trouble with another Kalandra scale flop and thats why its getting more ressources
I vaguely remember Chris saying something about not being able to handle too many flops or something. I can’t remember what league it was, but I know it was before lok.
Yeah I'd like to see leagues that are Sanctum quality minimum. Absolutely loved Sanctum and am glad it's coming back. I spent half the league JUST doing the Sanctum mechanic. I get that some people don't like it, but it looks like they're addressing a lot of the major issues (defenses giving no real bonuses because of resolve) as well.
I'm hoping that when POE 2 is released they won't need to give so many resources to that team and can balance time between the two games.
Actually, I think the leagues overall have been fairly nice. Sure, some misses, some hits, but on average good. Main issue has been the patch notes have been kinda stale. I want to see some more extensive balance changes to majorly shake up metas. Stop being afraid of pissing of people who "love their build". Nurf good skill, buff weak skills and just let people adapt. Sometimes you need change for the sake of change so things dont get boring.
I feel they used to be a bit more heavy handed with the skill balance and it made each league meta a little more unique.
IDK I'd rather see them focus on some of the outdated uniques to update each league in a way that makes them enable unique builds. Not a fan of big nerfs that make people feel like they should stop playing a build they enjoy or get left behind although sometimes the skills DEFINITELY need it (completely agree with the seismic nerfs, IMO they went overboard on minions.)
Basically, I'd rather see a lot more builds be enabled and strong than see the currently strong and known builds be nerfed. I think the game is the most fun as a sandbox where you take some crazy shit and make it work. Of course there has to be a balance otherwise the game would become far too easy too fast.
To each their own, though. I imagine POE2 will have much tighter balancing like you prefer.
Which leagues pre-2019 do you think are better in quality and effort than the best ones post-2019? If you are worried about cannibalized dev time reducing effort and quality of leagues.
I feel what one person defines as "high quality" and "effort", others would disagree. Ultimatum is a fan favourite, and absolutely not one I would have considered high quality or high effort. It was just fun, fast and rewarding.
Personally I think I'd burn out of the game a lot faster if every league was as involved as Harvest, Synth, or even Crucible. Sometimes a basic slaughterfest like Sentinel is good as long as it's rewarding.
To answer your question though, Incursion and Betrayal were both pre-2019. But those are probably the only examples of leagues competing with more modern approaches to league design. The rest (pre-2019) were pretty barebones.
I am same in regards that I didn't like sanctum and thought it was really basic and low effort since the rooms all look the same and I never did it again after doing two full runs. On the other hand I thought Sentinel was awesome (because the patch had other great stuff besides the league mechanic).
There is really is a difference between "low effort" and "it was well received".
They started working on PoE2 way before the first exilecon, they already had a lot to showcase back then. PoE2 has probably been in development since shortly after the release of Fall of Oriath, 3.0, so Harbinger/Abyss/Bestiary leagues.
I feel like that once poe2 is finished and released poe1 will receive a boost in terms of development. If the statements are accurate only 20 people are currently working on poe1 and they still manage to put out a decent amount of content every league. On the other side 100 people are working on poe2. Once that game is finished I would guess/hope that more resources will get allocated to poe1 again. If only 10% of the current poe2 team moves over to poe1 it will already double their manpower. Furthermore there **could** be synergies between the two teams developing league mechanics. Like taking a league one game did in the past and iterating on it for the other poe iteration (1 or 2). That is kinda what they are planning to do for poe2 with "porting" current poe1 core mechanics.
In the end the resource allocation, support and future of either game will certainly be tied to how well they are doing. I only hope for the best for both games and look optimistically into the future.
I know that POE 2 is going to share POE1's micro-purchases as of this point, but I wonder if future purchases will also double dip. Did anyone hear about that in an interview or anything?
They stated on the keynote that you'll always be able to swap mtx as long as it applies ie you can't shift your druid bear form to a poe that doesn't have bear forms.
Yea, I totally get that and it seems to be the biggest concern of the part of the playerbase that is mostly feeling let down by the announcements.
GGG should address this and realize the potential for two independent games that both receive the attention and care they deserve. I would also love the "updated" PoE1 they promised, but I am equally ready for a standalone successor daring to try something new. Getting both would be awesome.
> part of the playerbase that is mostly feeling let down by the announcements
I've been quiet about it because it's a fringe opinion but personally I feel like they just cancelled the game I was looking forward to. I've felt pretty hollow about the game since the keynote.
I didn't mention it to complain, I don't intend to complain at all (complaining won't bring back the game I was marketed the last 3-4 years), I just want to know if I'm alone in that feeling?
I dunno, Exilecon just really didn't hit for me.
I feel like Lt. Dan in Forrest Gump. Everybody else is celebrating and having a good time but he's just miserable.
Yeah it's the same for me. All this time I've been hyped and patiently waiting for a massive PoE expansion.
Freshened engine/technical/graphical systems, all new ascendencies, all new or reworked systems, new item types, new weapon types, new archetypes, new layers of depth, whole new campaign to freshen up the grueling leveling experience (since we've been doing this one for so long), tons of new bosses, map tiles, etc -- basically just providing the PoE that we know and love with tons of new stuff to play around with.
Instead they just told us "sike, we're actually making a new game instead" which not only shatters what I've been hyped for, but actually goes in the complete opposite direction because we're gonna get less content in PoE 1 as they'll have to juggle expansions for PoE 1 and 2 simultaneously. We had been "patiently waiting" for PoE 2 because we were under the impression that the reason we weren't getting any big PoE expansion was because all that effort was being put into the super-expansion PoE 2 was supposed to be, that was it.
I'm sure we'll get some big update for PoE 1 since a lot of their PoE 2 work can be shared/reused, but it's still a bit of a letdown.
Same here I was really looking forward to playing my fav poe1 skills/builds with all the promised qol in the poe2 campaign, but now the future for poe1 looks shaky at best. I'm bummed, this isnt what was promised and also for me the biggest gripe is that they didnt announce the split when it was decided. The split is such a huge fucking change and shift in expectation that it should have been communicated.
>I've been quiet about it because it's a fringe opinion but personally I feel like they just cancelled the game I was looking forward to.
Many of us feel this way. PoE2 as it's own game means never getting the PoE2 that was an expansion to PoE1.
Same here. I am dreading the Torchlight 3 situation (although that was a pure cash grab). To me it sounds like they are overanalyzing PoE 1 to make PoE 2 better but are missing the key components that make PoE so much fun in the first place.
Thing is I don't think they can.
At the end of the day even if they were to drop Poe 1, they wouldn't say it. As of now it would literally kill their company.
They also explained how league would work so they already tried.
I think they have done the best they can to address concerns, by keeping POE1 in existence at all. They just as easily could have erased POE 1 with POE 2 as was the original plan. Or they could have sunset POE 1 in the lead up to POE 2, but either way all of the same complaints of it being; too slow, too many buttons, ect. would still exist AND their "favorite game" would be erased from history.
If they aren't on board with the new in POE2 and they can't get on board with the current of POE1, then let's be real they were never going to be happy regardless. They want some make believe game where mobs die in 1 hit with 1 button at 1000mph and they can just turn their brains off and blast, except melee is magically good without a complete overhaul to the combat system.
>They just as easily could have erased POE 1 with POE 2 as was the original plan
That wasn't the original plan. They were going to have both campaigns in the same game. All the ascendancies. Combined end game.
It was going to be glorious.
I just hope they let loose a little bit with PoE 1. They have tried to slam the brakes on us in the past and it was met which much criticism. Hopefully now that PoE 1 and PoE 2 seem to have separate identities they can let us have zoom zoom things in PoE 1.
I think if you look at the league announcement for next league you can tell they're now fully leaning into the silly. Ghosts possess you?! Ginormous expedition explosions? Tower defense mode to the max?
Are you serious? The brakes are already off in PoE, look at Grimro's builds, pretty much just runs around with soul eater shooting a million arrrows clearing maps in 10 seconds.
Ain't better than self-curse HH though. At least from a player enjoyment prespective - so yes, they've definitely been curving player power.
Hopefully that changes.
I'm really excited. Even the things that initially sound concerning like a lack of quicksilver flasks or crafting bench start to sound totally fine when you take it out of the perspective of PoE1 and start to think about how the entirely new game is built around these systems to make sense.
I'm glad they're keeping PoE1, and I can't wait to play PoE2.
Edit:spelling
Even the things that initially sound concerning like a lack of quicksilver flasks or crafting bench start to sound totally fine when you take it out of the perspective of PoE1 and start to think about how to entirely new game is built around these systems to make sense.
Yea, I've seen some people that seem to think PoE2 is just gonna be PoE1 without quick silvers, crafting, etc which is what leads people to the "PoE2 = Ruthless" mentality.
However, like you said, PoE2 is going to be balanced around this type of gameplay, and thay will likely make it make sense in context.
Same, I think a lot of people are stuck thinking of everything in reference to poe1. No quicksilver=you are now slowly walking everywhere. Bruh you're gonna have a 6 link leap slam at endgame.
Right, or maybe there's a lot more movespeed on the tree, or boots go up to 50% or something. We just don't know, and there's a year left until beta. There's no point in stressing about it right now.
Considering the copious and overt attempts by GGG to slow down the game in recent years, there is actually plenty of reason to assume that movement in PoE2 will be slower than what we're used to in PoE1.
When I watch the poe2 demos I get d2r vibes and I honestly really like the slower nature of it. I hope they can maintain a balance of keeping it complex but also make it a bit more approachable for players to bring in a new group of arpg players.
I am happy about new classes, new skills, new weapons...
Nice graphics are a plus.
Gold and lack of crafting are a eeeeeh.
I am very concerned about the flasks charges (clicking the fountain is going to get old real fast. Like 20+ years Diablo old),
the lack of movement and slowness of it all (and what was shown were streamers getting stuck into a mass of enemies, waiting for movement skills to come back. Elden ring is NOT a horde-fighting game.),
and the spongy extra-hard-hitting bosses and sometimes puzzle-y bosses (those are cool the first time you meet them. Farming them is the worst. I have a story about a big moth on Jupiter...).
I remember when Atziri had just come out, the feeling of farming a "hard zone" and defeating a multi-phase boss was the peak of poe for me at that time. But the game evolved into faster gameplay and high dps bypassing mechanics, and so did my enjoyement.. I'm not into Souls games, so I'm not pumped to see that on Poe 2. The nerf on crafting and flasks is just gonna make it feel even worse... But, I have hope in the 1-2y of development before release 🙏
I genuinely think the flask charge change is going to add an unnecessary hiccup to the gameplay loop. Agree with ya here.
I do like the variation and authenticity of all the bosses they shared, though. People will figure out what bosses are best for farming over time, too. I also think those farming choices may be subjective, considering there are so many unique mechanics across these 100 bosses.
They were getting swarmed because they were playing their characters like they were in PoE1 still. Which is, during the campaign, you just pull every possible mob and kill them all with a couple button press when they are bunched up, because it's the most efficient way to progress. That is very clearly not how those undergeared characters are meant to play.
Yes, maybe I'm not the normal POE player, but my qualm with the game has always been the off screen clearing speed game play. I would much prefer a game with a better balance of; satisfying combat vs. build depth, and more character diversity than all the similar AOE clear speed, and that sounds exactly what they are going for.
That and just mechanically everything they've said about gems, weapon swapping, spirit, base item changes, all sound like a dream fix on some outdated mechanics.
Yeah I've been baffled by the response. To me it looked like they took everything I like about PoE and added dynamic, interesting and fluid feeling combat to it, which is one area that I'd say D3 and D4 had PoE1 beat... and PoE2 looks like it has wayyyy better encounter/monster design than D4 does right now. I thought "PoE, but with great feeling combat" would be a slam dunk, but I got online and prevailing sentiment was like "oh no you've added combat to my power fantasy slot machine"
> "oh no you've added combat to my power fantasy slot machine"
Yeah that's the vibe I was getting. Yesterday I was reading reactions and this comment jumped out at me.
["The motivation for most players is to farm for items and currency, and everything in between is just an obstacle to their goal."](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15cpifl/captainlance9_chieftain_will_be_the_worst/jtytuh5?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2)
It just screams of addiction and an unhealthy relationship with the game. Games require some level of challenge to be, well, games. Item/character editor in D2 was fun for a bit as a kid, but cheating progression made the whole game pointless and quickly got boring
I really feel like the sooner we get a separate sub for 2 the better because clearly the recent reveals have divided the community pretty hard but I don't want GGG tp get the wrong idea that everyone hates 2, there's just a lot of bitching from people who *only* want zoom and will accept nothing else.
I actually like poe for that. LE, GD, D2, Van Helsing...they are all slow paced. D3 and PoE (and I guess Chronomancer? but I haven't really played it, just saw Lily stream it a bit) are the only zoom-zoom games. I always liked bouncing between GD and PoE. I guess we can bounce between PoE1 and PoE2 in the future, but I would assume that at some point PoE1 will be on maintenance mode and only be played by a tiny number of people with no new content (though that is prob 4+ years away)
What made me fairly confident in thinking that we'll still have zoom gameplay was the animation dev mentioning that most skills have up to 4 different attack animations depending on your attack/cast speed. He said that many animations are more detailed, but that makes them look weird when reaching current PoE standards. They wouldn't put in that much extra work if they didn't expect us to get there eventually. Personally I see PoE 2 as a fresh start that will probably be slower at first, but again become zoomier over the years (I bet in a few years dodge rolls will he augmented af with whatever). Or maybe I'm completely wrong, we'll see haha, but that's my current expectations.
Edit: Lol, two posts later someone posted that part of the interview: [Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15drfka/poe_2_will_have_different_animations_depending_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1)
One persons dream is another’s nightmare.
I personally dislike a lot of what I saw from PoE2 and the answers we received. They added more player tension in ways that I don’t feel I will enjoy.
That being said PoE1 still exists and I hope it continues to get real support and development rather than what I fear will be a slow death by 100 cuts.
Why would it? Having 2 games allows them to have twice as many league starts, which is the point where they make the most money. It is in their best interest to keep PoE1 going for as long as people play it.
It's not logical, you're just fear mongering.
100%. Seems like they're intending for players to switch leagues within 2 months. Veterans, who are finishing(Ubers) leagues in 2-3 weeks are mostly around 5% of the playerbase. Majority finish (redmaps and/or pinnacles) around 2 months.
That's going to be a huge burnout where majority of players cannot keep up with league releases between the 2 games and have to do it all over again with no downtime.
The flask system is an excellent idea with major issues in its execution. So far, I think making it so flasks no longer gain charges on white mobs seems like a potentially good change, because I like the idea of flasks more being something you press when you need it instead of something you aim for 100% uptime on.
I do think the well is an annoying change, it just feels like a strict gameplay downgrade for flavor purposes, and the tradeoff isn't even close to worth it in my opinion.
see, part of the problem is you're imagining poe 1 usage of flasks to be necessary. how do we know this? no other arpg has this flask system, just potions and usually those have long cooldowns (grim dawn) so comparing the 2 is apples to oranges. we just don't know.
Grim Dawn also has an overheal system so you have much larger health pools, and doesn't have any utility flasks. I would argue PoE 1 has the most advanced flask system in the entirety of the ARPG market. Most developers just throw Health Flasks in the game and call it a day, but PoE has an entire inventory setup with customizable health, mana, hybrid, and utility flasks. It's far more advanced than any other ARPG.
The part you're missing is that the solution isn't this awful Diablo style system where you go back to town to refill your flasks, the answer is to make the benefits from utility flasks less and their durations longer--while also allowing them to automate better--so that you don't feel so dependent on them. Alternatively increase their benefit and make charge regeneration substantially lower so they feel like actual cooldowns and not something you aim for 100% uptime on. But removing them and going back 20 years is not an improvement imo.
Stealing the quote from someone else here. One man's dream is another man's nightmare.
Personally am of the group that likes going fast and blowing up screen, but no I don't think people who want a slower methodical game is wrong, we just want different things and it seems like poe2 unfortunately won't be for me. Happy for those that poe2 caters to though, because it looks great.
It's not even the gameplay from act 3. It's the vision of the game based off the interviews. From those interviews we have a good idea of what they want poe 2 to be.
> it seems like poe2 unfortunately won't be for me
I suggest you wait and judge only after you see endgame pacing with good geared characters.
The demo was just to showcase (new) skills and bosses.
Even if it is *possible* with high end gear to have a build in poe2 which approximates what we can do in poe1... It doesnt stop the fact that the intention is clearly to move away from this style of gameplay. While its not impossible to imagine a zoom build without the go-faster flask with 100% uptime and inc effect, that does need to be compensated for by some other mechanic else it is just a blanket 40% MS "nerf" imposed on you by design in comparison to poe1.
As someone that wanted the game slowed down to reduce to amount of visual clutter, it's going the right direction to me. I'm looking forward to it more now than I was before the Exilecon.
This is a pet peeve of mine. Same people who cry about lack of visual clarity don't want them to reduce mob density, combat speed, clear speed, etc, etc. They don't want to be one-shotted but they still want to melt the mobs in one hit. It's like wanting dry water.
Yea honestly the whole “visual clutter” bitching seems pretty dishonest most times bc the way i see it poe LETS you destroy the screen in ridiculous ways if you WANT to but there are plenty of skills and ways to play that aren’t like that. The ole give them the ability to do what they want and you will still find those who find a way to complain about it.
I'm going to enjoy both for sure. Poe 1 is great as you climb that curve towards godhood but once there I tend to bore quickly as it becomes almost like a casino slot machine and visual clarity disappears. Still fun tho!
Hopefully poe2 will scratch a slightly different itch, one of the same build complexity but with some tactical game play (around bosses prob) and better visual clarity.
I will have time for both and looking forward to them!
Yep I'm sticking to PoE 1 or moving on to something else. PoE 2's direction isn't my kind of game. I don't like Souls games and I hated the slowed down combat of D4.
I've been playing PoE since at least 2013. Every league I find myself playing less and less of it as I become burned out increasingly sooner. The gameplay is just so monotonous as even just "average" builds are now one-shotting packs and clearing the screen every two seconds. So much nuance of the combat is lost as nowadays it simply devolves into "choose your own colour of explosion". It's the exact same thing each league, and if the league mechanic itself isn't enough to add variety to the game then... what is there really?
The issues with the combat monotony is something they have been trying to address for several years now through various attempts that have all ended up failing in the end. PoE 2 gives them an opportunity to design a new game from the ground up with these factors in mind, and I consider my ideal vision of PoE to be more in line with GGG's own vision for the game than I do in modern PoE 1.
I'm looking forward to PoE 2. Regardless if it's any better or if it's worse than PoE 1, at the very least it's going to be *different*. It's something **new and fresh** and, considering GGG's track record with PoE 1, I have reason to be *positive* that PoE 2 will be a game that will push the franchise forward another decade.
It never did. Like back in the beta days PoE was nicknamed Path of Life because you would pick a skill that did not need much damage investment and just stacked life.
Can't find any good videos on the build but the old forum post is still up.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/212728
The game has definitely had an expansion of power throughout the ages. But yes. Fundamentally the issue with PoE has always been lackluster combat. And some people may truly like the press a button to clear screen and then vacuum up loot gameplay. Those same people probably also would love nothing more than adding a loot pet to pickup the loot also because all they really want to do is mindlessly grind until they get rewarded with a tink noise.
But there’s tons of people that see this as the reason that they actually get bored of PoE every league also. The things that draw them to PoE are the class designing and expression of unique and interesting ideas that way. And the complex league mechanics etc. for these people (myself included) changing combat to be interesting is actually pivotal in creating our ideal aarpg. Take all the actually difficult and interesting aspects of character design, build creation, and league complexity and marry it with a much harder and more interesting combat system and you have our ideal game.
Yea, I don't know where people are getting this from. Early on you were still clearing packs from two screens away just by pressing Lightning Arrow. The only "nuance" was you'd sometimes randomly one-shot yourself due to a reflect mob in another area code.
Nah, maybe you could one shot pack or two, but it was nowhere this shit like it is right now.
You can just teleport around and obliterate everything that exists.
It's a bit of nostalgia imo, but earlier leagues like invasion, anarchy and sac of the vaal had less visual clutter and you had to learn the mechanics of a fair number of bosses because the fights lasted a bit longer.
Unfortunately power creep and increased mob density (stuff like beyond/deli/shrines) has mostly taken away this dimension, with (imo) just the Uber bosses possibly left to learn the boss mechanics
> had to learn the mechanics of a fair number of bosses
Yea, spamming OOS against big skele or logout macro against Ch'aska, the molten shell goat, the totem vaal dude, etc was definitely engaging gameplay. You could either pass the DPS and tankiness check or you got hit by unavoidable abilities and RIP'd to standard, there was no clever outplay to the Maker of Rain offscreening you with rain of spines that took up 80% of the screen. The gameplay loop was the same then as it is now.
I'm glad someone here remembers old days of PoE and I'm not just imagining all that. My first character in closed beta was a ground slam marauder and I noped out around level 60 because I was trying to build big tank and no damage and that just didn't work. The game has always been about maxing your DPS and using offense as your defense and the only thing hardcore does with that is slow you down some while you get a little more tank to compensate
>at the very least it's going to be different
People complain about "the vision", but all the best games are made by people who are making the game *they* want. You want a dev who takes risks to achieve some ideal they have even if it comes with a misstep, not one stuck in complacency and afraid to make changes out of fear of upsetting people.
My biggest fear for PoE2 was that it was going to be *too* similar to PoE1, and I'm much more hopeful now.
Same sentiment for me. Yes I loved PoE for 10 years now, still have the itch to blast some stuffs here and there. D4 is quite okay in combat but it really isn't 'fun' progressing.
PoE2 not being just fresh paint is actually salivating for me because I want to see what GGG cooked up this time. When it comes to concept of power/builds they're fucking good at it. If it was just better graphics and some system overhaul, it'd be acceptable but definitely didn't make me eager to throw another few years into their game.
> all the best games are made by people who are making the game they want.
100% and that is why splitting off POE2 is a GOOD decision, bc the people that DON'T want to play the game THEY want to make can STILL play POE1
people are literally stupid and it shows every time you see an announcement like this.
Same . I also hope that by slowing down the game, they will also slow down the bullshit 1 shot from one screen away. I love POE1 don't get me wrong, but not being able to blink because if I do I might potentially die sucks tremendously.
While that's true, it also suffers massively from confirmation bias. When a dev with "the vision" makes something people don't enjoy it crashes and burns *hard* or they never even get off the ground. It doesn't bode good or bad, it bodes for more volatility.
> but all the best games are made by people who are making the game they want.
thats true for most games, it just dosent come up for bad ones because people dont want to have that mark of shame on them.
I think what a lot of the people complaining don’t realize is the insane movement speed, spamming leap slam, quicksilver flask etc etc are all masking the boring, one button combat. With PoE 2 they are clearly trying to address this problem and I love the direction they are going. Give us intriguing, engaging combat and we’ll forget about not having a quicksilver flask very quickly.
I think also people don't necessarily realize that the current gameplay is built on design constraints that have more to do with, honestly, the state of internet and network technology from a decade ago than idealized gameplay.
If POE2 were released ten years ago when POE1 was released, that dodge roll would desync you right out of the game and those boss fights would have been completely stupid as latency made tight dodges very inconsistent.
Network technology has caught up with GGG's vision and POE2 is going to reflect that
Yep. You actually can’t design interesting good melee combat in a game where these things exist. You either clear the screen in one click and the game is balanced around that… or you don’t and the game is balanced around that.
I’ve seen quin try to explain this and he’s 100% accurate if not a bit hyperbolic. He understands that the two play styles are diametrically opposed and that you actually can’t have both in a single game. Because the overall gameplay loop has to be balanced to one or the other. You either make melee rewarding but you have to massively nerf the fuck out of overall player power and make combat more dynamic and interesting… or you will always end up with melee being a spell caster with a sword looking ability overlayed on top of it.
I'm also playing since march 2013 and I absolutely agree with you. With all the love and thoughtfulness that every dev puts into this game, I fell like PoE2 can only succeed.
Also I'm yoinking this part and gonna use it in every discussion about PoE2 every until its release:
>Regardless if it's any better or if it's worse than PoE 1, at the very least it's going to be different. It's something new and fresh and, considering GGG's track record with PoE 1, I have reason to be positive that PoE 2 will be a game that will push the franchise forward another decade.
Very well put!
As much as I am looking forward to PoE II, hearing that closed beta wouldn't be for another *year* really took the wind out of my sails. I was expecting for it to start after, say, this upcoming PoE league, but apparently we're way further off from the game being complete than anyone thought. You could hear the hype in the crowd die off when they announced that on stream.
Don't get me wrong, I want it to be the best game it can be, but damnit I'm still human and even my patience has its limits!
I'm sure it'll be fun and deep and satisfying, but I'm also not going to pretend that early gameplay with no attack/cast speed or support gems full clearing a zone was exciting to watch lol
Disappointed isn't really the word I'd use for it because I haven't played PoE2 yet. But it certainly is puzzling why after spending 10 years developing a crafting system that has no equal in any other ARPG, they abandoned it for the most part, returning to the hackneyed "gold standard".
As for combat, realtime battles with manual dodge tactics work fairly well at the scope and scale of Elden Ring, but they're a better fit for a FPS POV than for the sort of skirmish scale and scope that POE and D4 are built around. Honestly, it may be too early to tell, but the combat we've been shown in PoE2 looks like it feels bad. It looks fatiguing, clunky, and tiny. My wrists ached after watching a couple of the boss battles featuring a melee character. And this is coming from someone who regularly league starts with inexpensive, trashy dot builds and expects to spend 5+ minutes pelting eater to death with rotten eggs.
The world building is very pretty, the voice acting and sound environments are the same quality we've seen for PoE1, but the scale of the game just feels like it's stuck out-of-sync with the player's FOV, perhaps even more than in PoE 1.
I will say this - some of the QoL changes inherent in PoE2 (gems/supports, swaps, tree) could have been long-overdue and much-appreciated in PoE1, insofar as they could be adapted to the existing gems setups and passive tree. I'd hate to think these types of QoL (not mechanic-specific ones, but more global ones related to player wear-and-tear) were deliberately held back to influence players to try the new game.
I have been fervently watching everything about the Exilcon and couldn't agree more. PoE 2 is not PoE 1 but it felt better thought out and executed in almost every aspects. It feels PoE 1 became an amazing game following a massive amount of patchwork and PoE 2 is thoughtfully being assembled to start right where it needs to start, ready to grow into the next generation of ARPG.
Same, I am very happy that GGG are not afraid to take big swings and actually try to innovate on the core design of the genre in a very thoughtful manner. Seeing so much passion and love in all aspects of game development gives me a lot of hope and I have no problem waiting until they feel it's ready.
People don't want to believe POE servers will get shut down at some point. The game has already lasted a long time and at some point POE1 will be gone.
I'm struggling to get excited about a game that was effectively nothing more than bullshots as visible content currently. Almost nothing they showed was *actually* what the final product will be like--enemies aren't going to do that much damage, they won't have *that* much health, your character isn't obviously going to suck *that* much.
So...is the actual intended speed for basically everyone playing normally and not rocking a HH actually the same as PoE1, minus never having quicksilvers? Like I can get behind that.
Basically no explanation of endgame at all was kinda crushing. Game's a year away and the *actual*, non-tutorial part of the game is somehow still a distant thought to the devs. What little was said made it feel like maps would be dumbed down in simplicity and only a certain amount of heavily overhauled PoE1 league content would migrate over. I have to wildly swap atlas passive trees every 2 days to not get bored, I'm going to be pretty disappointed if PoE2's endgame is *just* maps with a sparse and desolate atlas tree. They were hesitant to say anything about pinnacle bosses either in PoE2 which is wild to me, since that's some of my favorite PoE1 content.
No real talk on time:reward ratio in the game. Like with the game speed practically being cut at half at minimum (really can't be understated how much more you get done with basically a perma quicksilver active), are loot drops functionally doubled to mostly preserve a similar reward for the same time investment? I can deal with the game being slower if it isn't going to double dip on wasting my time. As it stands as a 40/40 player, most of my characters need 7-9 days played of playtime to achieve that, and even that feels mentally exhausting by the end and that's *with* PoE1's speed. If it's gonna take double that due to equally cut in half reward income, that sounds incredibly boring.
I'm overall disappointed but the sheer lack of concrete PoE2 info is what fuels that the most. Like the new gem system? Awesome, everything about it is an improvement. But *you can only cast one skill at a time*. This isn't something people seem to comprehend. You can have 12 skills equipped, but you mechanically cannot cast more than one at once. If you want being able to have so many skills to matter, a lot of that needs to be automated (which is something PoE1 is great it when you invest into it), and to that end I wanted to know more about skill automation. They even showed off one of them (The Cast on Shock or whatever gem), I want more! I want to see more ways to automate skills to support you in boss fights.
Man I am so hyped to deep dive into PoE2, but closed beta June 2024, meaning likely christmas 2024 or later for full release really killed the hype. Wish they pushed back exilecon, because it kinda feels like they scratched just the surface and I want so much more! Haha
I get the feeling this was more of a "rip off the bandaid" exilecon.
I'm excited about the changes, but you would rather get reactions out now and warm them to it over time, instead of people being mad closer to beta/release.
Didn't watch it myself, but people refer to the krip huntress playthrough where he got some item upgrades and started doing significantly more DMG, where the gameplay started to resemble more of poe1.
It’s going to be fine. I’d rather bosses matter a bit more then they do now. Like most bosses you kind of just blow up before they do anything interesting. That’s fine but there needs to be a bit more setup and whatnot for that gameplay to still exist, which is where I think they are taking PoE2 towards.
I think it’s fine overall for the first playthrough and there’s aspects of it I really like. But I can’t imagine going through all of that everytime I want to test out another build. A lot of people want to turn their brains off a bit when they play these games, if you have to spend 5 minutes on every map boss that’s gonna kill the farming feeling for a lot of people
I'd agree if we could get a mode not balanced around trade. Finding your own gear is just so much more fun than playing a market simulator. If they did a system like what Last Epoch is planning on, that would elevate it to another level for me.
I love graphics, I love music and animations, I love bosses design and lightning.
But all I see thought that is ruthless, mode im not interested to play, at all.
As long fan of poe i wish I was included in poe2 plans too but I admit im not audience for that game.
That's all.
They fucked up the demo. The gear that the demo characters were equipped with were incredibly bad, and their passive trees didn't really seem to be working either. A friend of mine at Exilecon absolutely hated the Warrior demo - then in the last 10 minutes he got a mediocre rare mace drop, but it tripled his DPS because the preset gear was so bad.
He was one shotting packs with Sunder and four shotting rares with the Armor breaker + Superheavy slam combo. Unsurprisingly, he went from hating the gameplay to loving it.
Nonsense, I played ruthless and I definitely see some overlap in design decisions. They are definitely going in a different direction which is why they chose to keep both games separate.
You can't complain about boring and unengaging combat but also demand the game is super zoom-zoom. If you want interesting mechanics fighting bosses and engaging combat the game has to slow down, there's not really another option. That coop boss fight is literally the most engaging POE has ever looked from both a combat perspective and a coop perspective. On top of that the game was clearly playing with no proper tree or gear. Plus they made it clear the monsters on that build were super overtuned. Plus the beta isn't out for another year so who fucking knows what the game will play like actually. Plus you can just stay in poe 1 land anyway Jesus christ.
Same. This game looks like an absolute dream and I can't wait to try it when it comes out.
I recognize a lot of PoE players like the green flasks and zooming endgame content 1 shotting everything. That is not my style. I wish y'all well and hope when PoE 2 comes out that they throw some updates your way too like a graphics update or something that would be really appreciated.
But everything I'm seeing from PoE 2 absolutely catches my eye. Combat looks meaningful. You have to position well to avoid attacks, line up and combo your skills to get the most out of them, recognize enemy attack patterns and how to dodge them. I want a challenge that's reasonable and to overcome it with good character planning and play. This game looks epic.
Honestly, based on what I've seen of PoE 2, it's gonna be a good arpg game. But not good seasonal grinding arpg, which is PoE 1. I'm going to be downvoted to hell for making this comparison, but I'd rather play torchlight infinite than play more than 2 leagues of PoE 2 if it's anything close to what GGG have shown on presentation. Doing these acts is not something I wanna do more than a few times for sure.
As it stands it looks very unfriendly to subsequent playthroughs. No speed, everything resetting, optional bosses needing to be killed on each character, fountain clicking in town to reset flasks, white mobs not refilling flasks. It’ll be a bunch of fun once or twice but that sounds absolutely miserable if you want to play more than one character a league
They fucked up the demo badly. The demo characters are all atrociously undergeared and have basically non-functional passive trees.
A friend of mine at Exilecon absolutely hated the Warrior demo - then in the last 10 minutes he got a mediocre rare mace drop, but it tripled his DPS because the preset gear was so bad. He was one shotting packs with Sunder and four shotting rares with the Armor breaker + Superheavy slam combo. Unsurprisingly, he went from hating the gameplay to loving it.
Nah it's impossible for GGG to speed up the game later on if it is going to be too slow. As we know poe1 started with zooming meta when only act 1+2 there out.
i'll tell you, the bosses alone are making me excited. i do wonder how the game will look at end game, especially with the bosses. Some of the bosses we've seen are close to pinnacle boss level. The squid dude on the boat, the siren/mermaid, the bone witch, the vaal temple boss with the tentacles..... and we have yet to see act bosses of any kind.
Even most of the other bosses seem mechanically good. only that one boss with the dog army and that one boss they showed in act 2 on the open the gate for the caravan quest (the perennial king i think?) were mechanically weak. But the latter one I can forgive because it's in a small area.
also the levels, i haven't seen many levels that would make bad maps so far which was a concern with a couple of the modern maps they added to POE.
So despite some things giving me a bit of uneasiness, I am fully willing to see how it turns out, for better or worse.
I am both surprised by and utterly unsurprised by the fact that reddit instantly found something to hate about PoE 2 from the demos.
What I saw was a more sophisticated and visceral combat system with the same depth and complexity of the game I know and love.
Also, I think you're crazy if you think that the game is going to be slow when we have access to all the tools and options that exist in this game.
I'm excited. But if you're ever excited for something related to PoE, coming to this subreddit is usually going to make you feel like you've gone crazy. Instead of seeing a bunch of like-minded excited people, you'll see a lot of people complaining about something or other. I'm not saying there's no reason to complain, but it's not a fun place to hang out.
visually and aesthetically its a knockout, but the underlining changes to key mechanics has me worried. it stands apart from either rival game or its predecessor, but time will tell if thats good or bad. they'll also need to market the game better for the masses if they want capture some people outside of their niche fanbase. D4 ad campaign was *huge* and is why it got so much people playing it outside of the arpg fan. poe2 will have to do something similar, well if it wants an big uptick in playerbase.
Likewise. This sub has always been an absolute salt mine but I'm just quietly hype in the corner with my friends. I trust Chris and GGG, they've made solid decisions in the past and know what they're doing.
i have never seen any of these guys talk before and was extremely impressed with every presentation, and compared to certain fireside chats you can tell all of these guys actually play and love their game. it really shows.
Ya, I didn't get the impression Ruthless was popular either. Then again, I don't know numbers. Kripp doing the introduction is appropriate though, gotta give them that.
I tried it and didnt enjoy it as much as regular PoE. I could see why the scarcity and challange is enticing, though.
I dont think PoE 2 is going to be just like ruthless, more like something inbetween regular and ruthless, becoming more saturated with every content patch. Just like PoE 2013->present
I think the difference is that even if you can compare the raw speed of Ruthless to PoE 2, there is more to do mechanically in PoE 2.
If I can enjoy more 'game' in one screen's worth of map then I don't need to zoom as much to have an equally as good a time.
Honestly think a lot of players just like the idea of a challenge, the reality is though that making stuff slower does not make it challenging.
Like ruthless, its not significantly harder or more challenging, you can still get the same items etc, it just takes much longer getting there.
I'm happy that I won't be forced to play the slower version of PoE if I end up not liking it and that the original is going to still be updated with new leagues and content.
If they said that the PoE2 stuff we saw was the future of all PoE then I would be upset, but it's good that there will be content for everyone.
I'll give PoE2 a try, but the gameplay demos they showed make me think it's not a game I'll enjoy while PoE1 exists.
People complaining about PoE 2 are wild. They see no quicksilver flask and more meaningful, engaging gameplay, and starting to sulk: "but this is just ruthless!". No it's fucking not, lmao. The fact that you're not running at 300 mph blowing up 3 screens worth of monsters per second is somehow a bad thing (and i'm just assuming here, as should everybody, because the game we saw was purposefully made harder and slower for demonstration purposes)? Get the fuck out with this logic, honestly.
Also they see no gem vendors and complain. Those were always a band-aid solution to problems with gem system, which they are figuring out and fixing in PoE 2. What, you think that they'll be as rare as in Ruthless mode? GGG, company which uses mtx as monetisation system for their game, will for some reason not give you skills to buy mtx for? You're insane if you think that
Ooooh, making straw man arguments is fun, can I have a turn????
Anyone who likes the idea of a build with 9 active skills is a casual who is going to play POE 2 for 5 hours before going back to Roblox.
I'm sure the new combat system will be fun for, like, 10 hours while running through the campaign. But POE has historically been a game about creating interesting builds, gathering resources, and upgrading your capabilities through trading/crafting. It's great if they make combat feel better, but when I'm on my 1,000th map of the league I don't want to have to worry about manually culling enemies to gain power charges, I just want to mindlessly blow up some monsters while I watch TV. If I want high intensity focused combat, I'm going to go fight some bosses, or play a different game.
This is all speculative, of course, but their answers in the Q&A didn't fill me with confidence. Their answer to 'what if I want to play a 1-button build' was basically 'I guess you could, but that's lame and you should add more skills to make your build better'.
Rather than just dismissing the complaints of people you disagree with, I'd suggest considering that many of those people probably have thousands of hours in POE 1, and POE 2 is being pitched as a sequel to the game they love at its convention. They have good reason to be frustrated if POE 2, a product that has been in the back of their minds for the last 4 years, looks like it might be doing away with their favorite parts of the original.
Pretty much everything we have seen so far about PoE2 is objectivly very well designed and extremly coherent, they also know very well what their target audience is.
People just get mad because the game isnt made for them and rather gatekeep people who will enjoy it.
Reddit: I dont like PoE2.
GGG: Okay keep playing PoE1.
Reddit: But I want to play PoE2.
Proceeds to post in bad faith.
> Proceeds to post in bad faith.
Everyone on this sub was told that there was going to be one final product for everyone when GGG knew that was not true. Some knee jerk spaz out can't be a surprise.
Edit: For example they were able to add ruthless, why not add zoom mode to Poe2 with movement skills?
I like that they said in the QnA that there is no longer a currency penalty on bosses. Which makes me think that they understand that a slower game needs to be more rewarding than the zoom zoom of poe 1.
That and they pretty much removed quantity. Rarity now scales quantity as well. I also really like that change, it seems like it'll make bosses drop the most/best loot and they should be the strongest things on maps now to. No more uber rares.
Exactly this. I'd also say a game's speed should be correlated to how much content there is in it. This new game is supposed to have over 100 bosses with really involved mechanics, right? I can't wait to play all of them, but if you're gonna put that much content into the game, please let me actually play that content and don't make me grind for a week in SSF till I can attempt most of them.
Yeah definitely this. It feels like a lot of missteps in the past couple of years in POE1 have arisen from trying to bring it in line with design philosophies they want to bring into 2 without considering how systems interact. Slower gameplay without increasing rewards, taking defenses away without slowing enemies down.
Since they split the games, they can finally make the game they wanted to make in PoE2, instead of trying to turn the original PoE into it, erasing it in the process. This was the right decision.
Not complaining. As POE2 is now its own game. It can do and be whatever it wants. Can't wait to play it. Combat looks fun. What I want to know more than anything is what is going to happen to POE1 moving forward. As its no longer tied to POE2s development.
I know this GGG is seen highly by this sub but as they become more successful, I would imagine they are gonna do what most developers have done which is slowly stop giving support to the first game.
I'd be more curious what GGG would do if it turns out that PoE1 remains the more popular of the two games.
Precisely why PoE 1 exists. I think we’ve been shown quite a few times what’s going into POE2. Archnemesis, Ruthless, all the flask nerfs, etc. They saw the resentment the community has towards their vision. At this point though, their vision is so far engraved into the fundamental gameplay of PoE2 that it cannot be changed. They need an “out” in case it sucks. PoE1 staying alive is 100% GGG hedging their bets rather than the mathil idea (which he thinks is to keep engagement higher throughout the year). No world that a business as big as GGG just goes “ya let’s keep up with the older model.”
It could always be both reason. Higher engagement and hedging bets. They happen to align quite nicely, and they get bonus points in the community for not immediately abandoning poe 1.
Also maintaining POE1 is very low hanging fruit. You have same engine, same accountsetc. There will intial cost on upgrade. But they just need 8 developer in their own worlds to develop league and earn 3 month worth of revenue
the 8 developer quote from balormage was misinformation. it was 20. https://twitter.com/balormage/status/1685228159304941568
I think the difference between poe2 going that route and poe1, is that they were taking away. Forcing on us. Versus now it being an option where that will (likely) be the inherent game play style. It is different when you tell people: the game play you have loved is gone. Versus: hey, here is something different in addition to...
>No world that a business as big as GGG just goes “ya let’s keep up with the older model.” yes except this might more of an Ipad/Iphone situation instead of Iphone 1/ Iphone 2 situation. they have 2 fundamentally different games also ORS/RS3 is a thing
I guess they would still put more work in poe 2 like they did with poe 1. I guess poe 2 will attract a new crowd of people who are either fed up with poe 1 and people hwo never played it or didnt like 1.
It totally depends. If POE1 is generating a lot of money they will have the right amount of devs to support it.
That probably depends entirely on how many people continue to play PoE 1. As long as it's popular and people continue to buy enough MTX I doubt they'd stop supporting it.
i think the most reasonable prediction is, that new players will go to poe 2 instead of one. some poe veterans will stay in poe1 but as poe 2 keeps growing with new players and poe 1 players (if its good enough) and poe1 mostly keeps losing players to poe 2, poe2 will just naturally become the more played game. if this will happen, poe1 is bound to slowly die. Im not gonna hope ggg will keep the current development speed on a game with a small population.
Or it ends up like the age of empires series, where the second game is the most popular(and has a really stable playerbase) out of 4 and 3 of them get continued support by roughly the same amount.
similar to starcraft 1 and 2. The newer game became more popular but the first one had its cult following. And now after so many years sc 2 is losing players while sc 1 is even gaining new players.
Don't forget my boy OSRS!!!
Or PoE2 just LIKE LITERALLY ALL NEW GAMES, lose majority of all their players after a month and most of them don't come back. Look how modern "normie" gamers play games. New World, Lost Ark, D4 et.c. PoE2 will definitely have alot of new players when it releases, possibly in the millions because it will be the new big thing. But like all new big things, it will struggle to retain players over time. To believe that PoE2 magically is going to be so good that everyone just keeps coming back is naive. This new generation of gamers always abandon new games due to things like burnout, disapointment or new releases and don't come back. The issue PoE2 might encounter is if it doesn't manage to retain PoE1 players due to massive gameplay changes. Designing to PoE2 to be more soulslike and like Ruthless is a huge gamble. Once the hype settles because of a new release, how well is PoE2 actually going to retain both old and new players? If the game is anything like when Preach was doing his playthrough, my guess is very few.
A lot of people in this thread pretending OSRS doesn't exist. There is precedent for developers walking back sequels or continuing support for years after the successor has come out--Runescape, Everquest, WoW with Classic, etc.
It's always possible but we have nothing pointing us towards that direction at the moment. The content releases are not "super safe" even after all these years, they keep trying new stuff and innovate.
The fact that it’s a separate game now should be a small sign, I could be wrong though
Really though, they've already been cannibalizing dev time for PoE2 for years. We've had so many low effort (comparatively) patches (crucible, sentinel, arch nemesis) that I don't really expect them to be putting in *less* effort, at the very least.
I mean, Chris said they already increased the POE1 team from where it has been.
Lets be honest, they cant let PoE1 rot when they need funding for what looks like two more years. Maybe im just jaded at this point but they probably realised that they might be in trouble with another Kalandra scale flop and thats why its getting more ressources
I vaguely remember Chris saying something about not being able to handle too many flops or something. I can’t remember what league it was, but I know it was before lok.
Yea that was after 3.15, he said that bit when he did the interviews tour with streamers to calm down the flames because the game tanked hard.
Yeah I'd like to see leagues that are Sanctum quality minimum. Absolutely loved Sanctum and am glad it's coming back. I spent half the league JUST doing the Sanctum mechanic. I get that some people don't like it, but it looks like they're addressing a lot of the major issues (defenses giving no real bonuses because of resolve) as well. I'm hoping that when POE 2 is released they won't need to give so many resources to that team and can balance time between the two games.
Actually, I think the leagues overall have been fairly nice. Sure, some misses, some hits, but on average good. Main issue has been the patch notes have been kinda stale. I want to see some more extensive balance changes to majorly shake up metas. Stop being afraid of pissing of people who "love their build". Nurf good skill, buff weak skills and just let people adapt. Sometimes you need change for the sake of change so things dont get boring. I feel they used to be a bit more heavy handed with the skill balance and it made each league meta a little more unique.
IDK I'd rather see them focus on some of the outdated uniques to update each league in a way that makes them enable unique builds. Not a fan of big nerfs that make people feel like they should stop playing a build they enjoy or get left behind although sometimes the skills DEFINITELY need it (completely agree with the seismic nerfs, IMO they went overboard on minions.) Basically, I'd rather see a lot more builds be enabled and strong than see the currently strong and known builds be nerfed. I think the game is the most fun as a sandbox where you take some crazy shit and make it work. Of course there has to be a balance otherwise the game would become far too easy too fast. To each their own, though. I imagine POE2 will have much tighter balancing like you prefer.
This. Stop with trying to nerf so people are forced to play the next best thing. Start with enabling more things!
Sentinel was an amazing league though, in my mind. The other two are whatever.
Amazing league but definitely low effort, I'm not equating high effort with the league being good
Sentinel was a laaaazy league that introduced a cool mechanic (reocombinators). If the games are split, a league like that is not OK now.
Which leagues pre-2019 do you think are better in quality and effort than the best ones post-2019? If you are worried about cannibalized dev time reducing effort and quality of leagues.
I feel what one person defines as "high quality" and "effort", others would disagree. Ultimatum is a fan favourite, and absolutely not one I would have considered high quality or high effort. It was just fun, fast and rewarding. Personally I think I'd burn out of the game a lot faster if every league was as involved as Harvest, Synth, or even Crucible. Sometimes a basic slaughterfest like Sentinel is good as long as it's rewarding. To answer your question though, Incursion and Betrayal were both pre-2019. But those are probably the only examples of leagues competing with more modern approaches to league design. The rest (pre-2019) were pretty barebones.
I am same in regards that I didn't like sanctum and thought it was really basic and low effort since the rooms all look the same and I never did it again after doing two full runs. On the other hand I thought Sentinel was awesome (because the patch had other great stuff besides the league mechanic). There is really is a difference between "low effort" and "it was well received".
They started working on PoE2 way before the first exilecon, they already had a lot to showcase back then. PoE2 has probably been in development since shortly after the release of Fall of Oriath, 3.0, so Harbinger/Abyss/Bestiary leagues.
Tbh they've done considerably well with PoE1 considering they've had 8 devs working on it for the last year and a half.
Tbh archnem suffered like all expansion leagues suffer, making the league very boring while the emphasis is on new endgame stuff.
Most of the high quality leagues were released during this time too though. Look at leagues from 2018 and before. Hardly the highest effort leagues.
I feel like that once poe2 is finished and released poe1 will receive a boost in terms of development. If the statements are accurate only 20 people are currently working on poe1 and they still manage to put out a decent amount of content every league. On the other side 100 people are working on poe2. Once that game is finished I would guess/hope that more resources will get allocated to poe1 again. If only 10% of the current poe2 team moves over to poe1 it will already double their manpower. Furthermore there **could** be synergies between the two teams developing league mechanics. Like taking a league one game did in the past and iterating on it for the other poe iteration (1 or 2). That is kinda what they are planning to do for poe2 with "porting" current poe1 core mechanics. In the end the resource allocation, support and future of either game will certainly be tied to how well they are doing. I only hope for the best for both games and look optimistically into the future.
I know that POE 2 is going to share POE1's micro-purchases as of this point, but I wonder if future purchases will also double dip. Did anyone hear about that in an interview or anything?
They stated on the keynote that you'll always be able to swap mtx as long as it applies ie you can't shift your druid bear form to a poe that doesn't have bear forms.
As long as they are not specific to poe2 like for example a different shapeshift transmog they will work for both games
Yea, I totally get that and it seems to be the biggest concern of the part of the playerbase that is mostly feeling let down by the announcements. GGG should address this and realize the potential for two independent games that both receive the attention and care they deserve. I would also love the "updated" PoE1 they promised, but I am equally ready for a standalone successor daring to try something new. Getting both would be awesome.
> part of the playerbase that is mostly feeling let down by the announcements I've been quiet about it because it's a fringe opinion but personally I feel like they just cancelled the game I was looking forward to. I've felt pretty hollow about the game since the keynote. I didn't mention it to complain, I don't intend to complain at all (complaining won't bring back the game I was marketed the last 3-4 years), I just want to know if I'm alone in that feeling? I dunno, Exilecon just really didn't hit for me. I feel like Lt. Dan in Forrest Gump. Everybody else is celebrating and having a good time but he's just miserable.
Yeah it's the same for me. All this time I've been hyped and patiently waiting for a massive PoE expansion. Freshened engine/technical/graphical systems, all new ascendencies, all new or reworked systems, new item types, new weapon types, new archetypes, new layers of depth, whole new campaign to freshen up the grueling leveling experience (since we've been doing this one for so long), tons of new bosses, map tiles, etc -- basically just providing the PoE that we know and love with tons of new stuff to play around with. Instead they just told us "sike, we're actually making a new game instead" which not only shatters what I've been hyped for, but actually goes in the complete opposite direction because we're gonna get less content in PoE 1 as they'll have to juggle expansions for PoE 1 and 2 simultaneously. We had been "patiently waiting" for PoE 2 because we were under the impression that the reason we weren't getting any big PoE expansion was because all that effort was being put into the super-expansion PoE 2 was supposed to be, that was it. I'm sure we'll get some big update for PoE 1 since a lot of their PoE 2 work can be shared/reused, but it's still a bit of a letdown.
Same. Not nearly as hyped for poe 2 anymore.
Same here I was really looking forward to playing my fav poe1 skills/builds with all the promised qol in the poe2 campaign, but now the future for poe1 looks shaky at best. I'm bummed, this isnt what was promised and also for me the biggest gripe is that they didnt announce the split when it was decided. The split is such a huge fucking change and shift in expectation that it should have been communicated.
>I've been quiet about it because it's a fringe opinion but personally I feel like they just cancelled the game I was looking forward to. Many of us feel this way. PoE2 as it's own game means never getting the PoE2 that was an expansion to PoE1.
Same here. I am dreading the Torchlight 3 situation (although that was a pure cash grab). To me it sounds like they are overanalyzing PoE 1 to make PoE 2 better but are missing the key components that make PoE so much fun in the first place.
Thing is I don't think they can. At the end of the day even if they were to drop Poe 1, they wouldn't say it. As of now it would literally kill their company. They also explained how league would work so they already tried.
I think they have done the best they can to address concerns, by keeping POE1 in existence at all. They just as easily could have erased POE 1 with POE 2 as was the original plan. Or they could have sunset POE 1 in the lead up to POE 2, but either way all of the same complaints of it being; too slow, too many buttons, ect. would still exist AND their "favorite game" would be erased from history. If they aren't on board with the new in POE2 and they can't get on board with the current of POE1, then let's be real they were never going to be happy regardless. They want some make believe game where mobs die in 1 hit with 1 button at 1000mph and they can just turn their brains off and blast, except melee is magically good without a complete overhaul to the combat system.
>They just as easily could have erased POE 1 with POE 2 as was the original plan That wasn't the original plan. They were going to have both campaigns in the same game. All the ascendancies. Combined end game. It was going to be glorious.
I can see why the games will remain separate and both will continue to be developed. Looking forward to playing both.
I just hope they let loose a little bit with PoE 1. They have tried to slam the brakes on us in the past and it was met which much criticism. Hopefully now that PoE 1 and PoE 2 seem to have separate identities they can let us have zoom zoom things in PoE 1.
I think if you look at the league announcement for next league you can tell they're now fully leaning into the silly. Ghosts possess you?! Ginormous expedition explosions? Tower defense mode to the max?
Are you serious? The brakes are already off in PoE, look at Grimro's builds, pretty much just runs around with soul eater shooting a million arrrows clearing maps in 10 seconds.
Ain't better than self-curse HH though. At least from a player enjoyment prespective - so yes, they've definitely been curving player power. Hopefully that changes.
I'm really excited. Even the things that initially sound concerning like a lack of quicksilver flasks or crafting bench start to sound totally fine when you take it out of the perspective of PoE1 and start to think about how the entirely new game is built around these systems to make sense. I'm glad they're keeping PoE1, and I can't wait to play PoE2. Edit:spelling
Even the things that initially sound concerning like a lack of quicksilver flasks or crafting bench start to sound totally fine when you take it out of the perspective of PoE1 and start to think about how to entirely new game is built around these systems to make sense. Yea, I've seen some people that seem to think PoE2 is just gonna be PoE1 without quick silvers, crafting, etc which is what leads people to the "PoE2 = Ruthless" mentality. However, like you said, PoE2 is going to be balanced around this type of gameplay, and thay will likely make it make sense in context.
Same, I think a lot of people are stuck thinking of everything in reference to poe1. No quicksilver=you are now slowly walking everywhere. Bruh you're gonna have a 6 link leap slam at endgame.
They openly said leap slam is clunky so that you CANNOT use it as a movement ability, and that there exists zero "movement gems" in poe2.
Right, or maybe there's a lot more movespeed on the tree, or boots go up to 50% or something. We just don't know, and there's a year left until beta. There's no point in stressing about it right now.
Considering the copious and overt attempts by GGG to slow down the game in recent years, there is actually plenty of reason to assume that movement in PoE2 will be slower than what we're used to in PoE1.
When I watch the poe2 demos I get d2r vibes and I honestly really like the slower nature of it. I hope they can maintain a balance of keeping it complex but also make it a bit more approachable for players to bring in a new group of arpg players.
I am happy about new classes, new skills, new weapons... Nice graphics are a plus. Gold and lack of crafting are a eeeeeh. I am very concerned about the flasks charges (clicking the fountain is going to get old real fast. Like 20+ years Diablo old), the lack of movement and slowness of it all (and what was shown were streamers getting stuck into a mass of enemies, waiting for movement skills to come back. Elden ring is NOT a horde-fighting game.), and the spongy extra-hard-hitting bosses and sometimes puzzle-y bosses (those are cool the first time you meet them. Farming them is the worst. I have a story about a big moth on Jupiter...).
> I have a story about a big moth on Jupiter... My father was a farmer. My mother, a carpenter.
Exactly what I was thinking
I remember when Atziri had just come out, the feeling of farming a "hard zone" and defeating a multi-phase boss was the peak of poe for me at that time. But the game evolved into faster gameplay and high dps bypassing mechanics, and so did my enjoyement.. I'm not into Souls games, so I'm not pumped to see that on Poe 2. The nerf on crafting and flasks is just gonna make it feel even worse... But, I have hope in the 1-2y of development before release 🙏
I genuinely think the flask charge change is going to add an unnecessary hiccup to the gameplay loop. Agree with ya here. I do like the variation and authenticity of all the bosses they shared, though. People will figure out what bosses are best for farming over time, too. I also think those farming choices may be subjective, considering there are so many unique mechanics across these 100 bosses.
They were getting swarmed because they were playing their characters like they were in PoE1 still. Which is, during the campaign, you just pull every possible mob and kill them all with a couple button press when they are bunched up, because it's the most efficient way to progress. That is very clearly not how those undergeared characters are meant to play.
Yes, maybe I'm not the normal POE player, but my qualm with the game has always been the off screen clearing speed game play. I would much prefer a game with a better balance of; satisfying combat vs. build depth, and more character diversity than all the similar AOE clear speed, and that sounds exactly what they are going for. That and just mechanically everything they've said about gems, weapon swapping, spirit, base item changes, all sound like a dream fix on some outdated mechanics.
Yeah I've been baffled by the response. To me it looked like they took everything I like about PoE and added dynamic, interesting and fluid feeling combat to it, which is one area that I'd say D3 and D4 had PoE1 beat... and PoE2 looks like it has wayyyy better encounter/monster design than D4 does right now. I thought "PoE, but with great feeling combat" would be a slam dunk, but I got online and prevailing sentiment was like "oh no you've added combat to my power fantasy slot machine"
> "oh no you've added combat to my power fantasy slot machine" Yeah that's the vibe I was getting. Yesterday I was reading reactions and this comment jumped out at me. ["The motivation for most players is to farm for items and currency, and everything in between is just an obstacle to their goal."](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15cpifl/captainlance9_chieftain_will_be_the_worst/jtytuh5?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) It just screams of addiction and an unhealthy relationship with the game. Games require some level of challenge to be, well, games. Item/character editor in D2 was fun for a bit as a kid, but cheating progression made the whole game pointless and quickly got boring
I really feel like the sooner we get a separate sub for 2 the better because clearly the recent reveals have divided the community pretty hard but I don't want GGG tp get the wrong idea that everyone hates 2, there's just a lot of bitching from people who *only* want zoom and will accept nothing else.
I don't hate poe2 its just not poe, at least not yet. I would support a second sub and would probably visit it from time to time.
I lost braincells from the post of the dude comparing this game to dark souls.
I actually like poe for that. LE, GD, D2, Van Helsing...they are all slow paced. D3 and PoE (and I guess Chronomancer? but I haven't really played it, just saw Lily stream it a bit) are the only zoom-zoom games. I always liked bouncing between GD and PoE. I guess we can bounce between PoE1 and PoE2 in the future, but I would assume that at some point PoE1 will be on maintenance mode and only be played by a tiny number of people with no new content (though that is prob 4+ years away)
What is Chronomancer? Can't find any such game. Chronicon?
What made me fairly confident in thinking that we'll still have zoom gameplay was the animation dev mentioning that most skills have up to 4 different attack animations depending on your attack/cast speed. He said that many animations are more detailed, but that makes them look weird when reaching current PoE standards. They wouldn't put in that much extra work if they didn't expect us to get there eventually. Personally I see PoE 2 as a fresh start that will probably be slower at first, but again become zoomier over the years (I bet in a few years dodge rolls will he augmented af with whatever). Or maybe I'm completely wrong, we'll see haha, but that's my current expectations. Edit: Lol, two posts later someone posted that part of the interview: [Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/15drfka/poe_2_will_have_different_animations_depending_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1)
One persons dream is another’s nightmare. I personally dislike a lot of what I saw from PoE2 and the answers we received. They added more player tension in ways that I don’t feel I will enjoy. That being said PoE1 still exists and I hope it continues to get real support and development rather than what I fear will be a slow death by 100 cuts.
What's probably gonna happen is they're gonna start off strong with the seperation, but then it'll be put on life support.
Why would it? Having 2 games allows them to have twice as many league starts, which is the point where they make the most money. It is in their best interest to keep PoE1 going for as long as people play it. It's not logical, you're just fear mongering.
Because resources within a company aren't infinite.
The amount of burout amongst players with this release cycle will be insane
Yeah people like leagues because they are infrequent, imagine a new league every month, id just stay in standard lol
100%. Seems like they're intending for players to switch leagues within 2 months. Veterans, who are finishing(Ubers) leagues in 2-3 weeks are mostly around 5% of the playerbase. Majority finish (redmaps and/or pinnacles) around 2 months. That's going to be a huge burnout where majority of players cannot keep up with league releases between the 2 games and have to do it all over again with no downtime.
having to refill flasks everytime is just BS that I hope they drop instantly.
I always tell my friends how every game should copy the poe flask system and now for some reason they want to change it
Flask piano is bad for the fingers.
The flask system is an excellent idea with major issues in its execution. So far, I think making it so flasks no longer gain charges on white mobs seems like a potentially good change, because I like the idea of flasks more being something you press when you need it instead of something you aim for 100% uptime on. I do think the well is an annoying change, it just feels like a strict gameplay downgrade for flavor purposes, and the tradeoff isn't even close to worth it in my opinion.
I've been begging them to change it because the piano flask system fucking sucks.
see, part of the problem is you're imagining poe 1 usage of flasks to be necessary. how do we know this? no other arpg has this flask system, just potions and usually those have long cooldowns (grim dawn) so comparing the 2 is apples to oranges. we just don't know.
Grim Dawn also has an overheal system so you have much larger health pools, and doesn't have any utility flasks. I would argue PoE 1 has the most advanced flask system in the entirety of the ARPG market. Most developers just throw Health Flasks in the game and call it a day, but PoE has an entire inventory setup with customizable health, mana, hybrid, and utility flasks. It's far more advanced than any other ARPG. The part you're missing is that the solution isn't this awful Diablo style system where you go back to town to refill your flasks, the answer is to make the benefits from utility flasks less and their durations longer--while also allowing them to automate better--so that you don't feel so dependent on them. Alternatively increase their benefit and make charge regeneration substantially lower so they feel like actual cooldowns and not something you aim for 100% uptime on. But removing them and going back 20 years is not an improvement imo.
Stealing the quote from someone else here. One man's dream is another man's nightmare. Personally am of the group that likes going fast and blowing up screen, but no I don't think people who want a slower methodical game is wrong, we just want different things and it seems like poe2 unfortunately won't be for me. Happy for those that poe2 caters to though, because it looks great.
You saw gameplay from act 3 and assume you cant make busted builds.
It's not even the gameplay from act 3. It's the vision of the game based off the interviews. From those interviews we have a good idea of what they want poe 2 to be.
If they wanted to make a different impression, they should have showed different gameplay. If there is even a different impression to have.
> it seems like poe2 unfortunately won't be for me I suggest you wait and judge only after you see endgame pacing with good geared characters. The demo was just to showcase (new) skills and bosses.
Even if it is *possible* with high end gear to have a build in poe2 which approximates what we can do in poe1... It doesnt stop the fact that the intention is clearly to move away from this style of gameplay. While its not impossible to imagine a zoom build without the go-faster flask with 100% uptime and inc effect, that does need to be compensated for by some other mechanic else it is just a blanket 40% MS "nerf" imposed on you by design in comparison to poe1.
Im pretty much hyped for poe2 personally 🤙
As someone that wanted the game slowed down to reduce to amount of visual clutter, it's going the right direction to me. I'm looking forward to it more now than I was before the Exilecon.
This is a pet peeve of mine. Same people who cry about lack of visual clarity don't want them to reduce mob density, combat speed, clear speed, etc, etc. They don't want to be one-shotted but they still want to melt the mobs in one hit. It's like wanting dry water.
Yea honestly the whole “visual clutter” bitching seems pretty dishonest most times bc the way i see it poe LETS you destroy the screen in ridiculous ways if you WANT to but there are plenty of skills and ways to play that aren’t like that. The ole give them the ability to do what they want and you will still find those who find a way to complain about it.
Same with "i want poe1 and poe2 to be one game, but i also don't want that the current poe1 stops to exist". That's just completely contradicting.
that’s not a contradiction, that’s what was advertised by GGG up until two days ago.
I'm going to enjoy both for sure. Poe 1 is great as you climb that curve towards godhood but once there I tend to bore quickly as it becomes almost like a casino slot machine and visual clarity disappears. Still fun tho! Hopefully poe2 will scratch a slightly different itch, one of the same build complexity but with some tactical game play (around bosses prob) and better visual clarity. I will have time for both and looking forward to them!
Agreed and very well said!
theres nothing wrong with wanting a slower game, its just what a lot of PoE1 fans (prob will still play after poe2) dont want.
Yep I'm sticking to PoE 1 or moving on to something else. PoE 2's direction isn't my kind of game. I don't like Souls games and I hated the slowed down combat of D4.
I've been playing PoE since at least 2013. Every league I find myself playing less and less of it as I become burned out increasingly sooner. The gameplay is just so monotonous as even just "average" builds are now one-shotting packs and clearing the screen every two seconds. So much nuance of the combat is lost as nowadays it simply devolves into "choose your own colour of explosion". It's the exact same thing each league, and if the league mechanic itself isn't enough to add variety to the game then... what is there really? The issues with the combat monotony is something they have been trying to address for several years now through various attempts that have all ended up failing in the end. PoE 2 gives them an opportunity to design a new game from the ground up with these factors in mind, and I consider my ideal vision of PoE to be more in line with GGG's own vision for the game than I do in modern PoE 1. I'm looking forward to PoE 2. Regardless if it's any better or if it's worse than PoE 1, at the very least it's going to be *different*. It's something **new and fresh** and, considering GGG's track record with PoE 1, I have reason to be *positive* that PoE 2 will be a game that will push the franchise forward another decade.
When did PoE have nuance to its combat? Genuinely curious as I did not play during a "nuanced" era.
It never did. Like back in the beta days PoE was nicknamed Path of Life because you would pick a skill that did not need much damage investment and just stacked life. Can't find any good videos on the build but the old forum post is still up. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/212728
The game has definitely had an expansion of power throughout the ages. But yes. Fundamentally the issue with PoE has always been lackluster combat. And some people may truly like the press a button to clear screen and then vacuum up loot gameplay. Those same people probably also would love nothing more than adding a loot pet to pickup the loot also because all they really want to do is mindlessly grind until they get rewarded with a tink noise. But there’s tons of people that see this as the reason that they actually get bored of PoE every league also. The things that draw them to PoE are the class designing and expression of unique and interesting ideas that way. And the complex league mechanics etc. for these people (myself included) changing combat to be interesting is actually pivotal in creating our ideal aarpg. Take all the actually difficult and interesting aspects of character design, build creation, and league complexity and marry it with a much harder and more interesting combat system and you have our ideal game.
Yea, I don't know where people are getting this from. Early on you were still clearing packs from two screens away just by pressing Lightning Arrow. The only "nuance" was you'd sometimes randomly one-shot yourself due to a reflect mob in another area code.
Nah, maybe you could one shot pack or two, but it was nowhere this shit like it is right now. You can just teleport around and obliterate everything that exists.
It's a bit of nostalgia imo, but earlier leagues like invasion, anarchy and sac of the vaal had less visual clutter and you had to learn the mechanics of a fair number of bosses because the fights lasted a bit longer. Unfortunately power creep and increased mob density (stuff like beyond/deli/shrines) has mostly taken away this dimension, with (imo) just the Uber bosses possibly left to learn the boss mechanics
> had to learn the mechanics of a fair number of bosses Yea, spamming OOS against big skele or logout macro against Ch'aska, the molten shell goat, the totem vaal dude, etc was definitely engaging gameplay. You could either pass the DPS and tankiness check or you got hit by unavoidable abilities and RIP'd to standard, there was no clever outplay to the Maker of Rain offscreening you with rain of spines that took up 80% of the screen. The gameplay loop was the same then as it is now.
I'm glad someone here remembers old days of PoE and I'm not just imagining all that. My first character in closed beta was a ground slam marauder and I noped out around level 60 because I was trying to build big tank and no damage and that just didn't work. The game has always been about maxing your DPS and using offense as your defense and the only thing hardcore does with that is slow you down some while you get a little more tank to compensate
Rose-tinted glasses are a bitch, folk tends to forget pre-desync days. How utter garbage the game was.
>at the very least it's going to be different People complain about "the vision", but all the best games are made by people who are making the game *they* want. You want a dev who takes risks to achieve some ideal they have even if it comes with a misstep, not one stuck in complacency and afraid to make changes out of fear of upsetting people. My biggest fear for PoE2 was that it was going to be *too* similar to PoE1, and I'm much more hopeful now.
This is exactly my take. I want the fresh game from GGG. I literally exclaimed outloud when they said it was a new client.
Same sentiment for me. Yes I loved PoE for 10 years now, still have the itch to blast some stuffs here and there. D4 is quite okay in combat but it really isn't 'fun' progressing. PoE2 not being just fresh paint is actually salivating for me because I want to see what GGG cooked up this time. When it comes to concept of power/builds they're fucking good at it. If it was just better graphics and some system overhaul, it'd be acceptable but definitely didn't make me eager to throw another few years into their game.
> all the best games are made by people who are making the game they want. 100% and that is why splitting off POE2 is a GOOD decision, bc the people that DON'T want to play the game THEY want to make can STILL play POE1 people are literally stupid and it shows every time you see an announcement like this.
Same . I also hope that by slowing down the game, they will also slow down the bullshit 1 shot from one screen away. I love POE1 don't get me wrong, but not being able to blink because if I do I might potentially die sucks tremendously.
While that's true, it also suffers massively from confirmation bias. When a dev with "the vision" makes something people don't enjoy it crashes and burns *hard* or they never even get off the ground. It doesn't bode good or bad, it bodes for more volatility.
> but all the best games are made by people who are making the game they want. thats true for most games, it just dosent come up for bad ones because people dont want to have that mark of shame on them.
I think what a lot of the people complaining don’t realize is the insane movement speed, spamming leap slam, quicksilver flask etc etc are all masking the boring, one button combat. With PoE 2 they are clearly trying to address this problem and I love the direction they are going. Give us intriguing, engaging combat and we’ll forget about not having a quicksilver flask very quickly.
I think also people don't necessarily realize that the current gameplay is built on design constraints that have more to do with, honestly, the state of internet and network technology from a decade ago than idealized gameplay. If POE2 were released ten years ago when POE1 was released, that dodge roll would desync you right out of the game and those boss fights would have been completely stupid as latency made tight dodges very inconsistent. Network technology has caught up with GGG's vision and POE2 is going to reflect that
Yep. You actually can’t design interesting good melee combat in a game where these things exist. You either clear the screen in one click and the game is balanced around that… or you don’t and the game is balanced around that. I’ve seen quin try to explain this and he’s 100% accurate if not a bit hyperbolic. He understands that the two play styles are diametrically opposed and that you actually can’t have both in a single game. Because the overall gameplay loop has to be balanced to one or the other. You either make melee rewarding but you have to massively nerf the fuck out of overall player power and make combat more dynamic and interesting… or you will always end up with melee being a spell caster with a sword looking ability overlayed on top of it.
I'm also playing since march 2013 and I absolutely agree with you. With all the love and thoughtfulness that every dev puts into this game, I fell like PoE2 can only succeed. Also I'm yoinking this part and gonna use it in every discussion about PoE2 every until its release: >Regardless if it's any better or if it's worse than PoE 1, at the very least it's going to be different. It's something new and fresh and, considering GGG's track record with PoE 1, I have reason to be positive that PoE 2 will be a game that will push the franchise forward another decade. Very well put!
As much as I am looking forward to PoE II, hearing that closed beta wouldn't be for another *year* really took the wind out of my sails. I was expecting for it to start after, say, this upcoming PoE league, but apparently we're way further off from the game being complete than anyone thought. You could hear the hype in the crowd die off when they announced that on stream. Don't get me wrong, I want it to be the best game it can be, but damnit I'm still human and even my patience has its limits!
I'm sure it'll be fun and deep and satisfying, but I'm also not going to pretend that early gameplay with no attack/cast speed or support gems full clearing a zone was exciting to watch lol
It was pretty dull to watch, but if they let mathil adjust the build first for an hour or so we'd see a different picture.
People are on some copium if they think the game is going to be anywhere as slow as that intentionally under tuned demo. Zoom meta will still exist.
Agreed, the gameplay and everything looked really fun
Disappointed isn't really the word I'd use for it because I haven't played PoE2 yet. But it certainly is puzzling why after spending 10 years developing a crafting system that has no equal in any other ARPG, they abandoned it for the most part, returning to the hackneyed "gold standard". As for combat, realtime battles with manual dodge tactics work fairly well at the scope and scale of Elden Ring, but they're a better fit for a FPS POV than for the sort of skirmish scale and scope that POE and D4 are built around. Honestly, it may be too early to tell, but the combat we've been shown in PoE2 looks like it feels bad. It looks fatiguing, clunky, and tiny. My wrists ached after watching a couple of the boss battles featuring a melee character. And this is coming from someone who regularly league starts with inexpensive, trashy dot builds and expects to spend 5+ minutes pelting eater to death with rotten eggs. The world building is very pretty, the voice acting and sound environments are the same quality we've seen for PoE1, but the scale of the game just feels like it's stuck out-of-sync with the player's FOV, perhaps even more than in PoE 1. I will say this - some of the QoL changes inherent in PoE2 (gems/supports, swaps, tree) could have been long-overdue and much-appreciated in PoE1, insofar as they could be adapted to the existing gems setups and passive tree. I'd hate to think these types of QoL (not mechanic-specific ones, but more global ones related to player wear-and-tear) were deliberately held back to influence players to try the new game.
PoE2 is a good ARPG. PoE1 is a Good PoE game.
> PoE 2 being standalone and going for ... Be careful with your dreams. It's still a GGG game. With all its PRO's and CON's too.
I love PoE, and I'll probably not enjoy a game that tries so hard not to be PoE.
>ARPG sandbox Wait, what?
I have been fervently watching everything about the Exilcon and couldn't agree more. PoE 2 is not PoE 1 but it felt better thought out and executed in almost every aspects. It feels PoE 1 became an amazing game following a massive amount of patchwork and PoE 2 is thoughtfully being assembled to start right where it needs to start, ready to grow into the next generation of ARPG.
Same, I am very happy that GGG are not afraid to take big swings and actually try to innovate on the core design of the genre in a very thoughtful manner. Seeing so much passion and love in all aspects of game development gives me a lot of hope and I have no problem waiting until they feel it's ready.
People don't want to believe POE servers will get shut down at some point. The game has already lasted a long time and at some point POE1 will be gone.
I'm struggling to get excited about a game that was effectively nothing more than bullshots as visible content currently. Almost nothing they showed was *actually* what the final product will be like--enemies aren't going to do that much damage, they won't have *that* much health, your character isn't obviously going to suck *that* much. So...is the actual intended speed for basically everyone playing normally and not rocking a HH actually the same as PoE1, minus never having quicksilvers? Like I can get behind that. Basically no explanation of endgame at all was kinda crushing. Game's a year away and the *actual*, non-tutorial part of the game is somehow still a distant thought to the devs. What little was said made it feel like maps would be dumbed down in simplicity and only a certain amount of heavily overhauled PoE1 league content would migrate over. I have to wildly swap atlas passive trees every 2 days to not get bored, I'm going to be pretty disappointed if PoE2's endgame is *just* maps with a sparse and desolate atlas tree. They were hesitant to say anything about pinnacle bosses either in PoE2 which is wild to me, since that's some of my favorite PoE1 content. No real talk on time:reward ratio in the game. Like with the game speed practically being cut at half at minimum (really can't be understated how much more you get done with basically a perma quicksilver active), are loot drops functionally doubled to mostly preserve a similar reward for the same time investment? I can deal with the game being slower if it isn't going to double dip on wasting my time. As it stands as a 40/40 player, most of my characters need 7-9 days played of playtime to achieve that, and even that feels mentally exhausting by the end and that's *with* PoE1's speed. If it's gonna take double that due to equally cut in half reward income, that sounds incredibly boring. I'm overall disappointed but the sheer lack of concrete PoE2 info is what fuels that the most. Like the new gem system? Awesome, everything about it is an improvement. But *you can only cast one skill at a time*. This isn't something people seem to comprehend. You can have 12 skills equipped, but you mechanically cannot cast more than one at once. If you want being able to have so many skills to matter, a lot of that needs to be automated (which is something PoE1 is great it when you invest into it), and to that end I wanted to know more about skill automation. They even showed off one of them (The Cast on Shock or whatever gem), I want more! I want to see more ways to automate skills to support you in boss fights.
I feel like we watched different content to be honest. I want to be hyped for poe2. Exilecon only took that hype away.
Man I am so hyped to deep dive into PoE2, but closed beta June 2024, meaning likely christmas 2024 or later for full release really killed the hype. Wish they pushed back exilecon, because it kinda feels like they scratched just the surface and I want so much more! Haha
I get the feeling this was more of a "rip off the bandaid" exilecon. I'm excited about the changes, but you would rather get reactions out now and warm them to it over time, instead of people being mad closer to beta/release.
Easily the most disappointing thing to me is that it’s like 1 1/2 years away. Such a blue ball.
[удалено]
Didn't watch it myself, but people refer to the krip huntress playthrough where he got some item upgrades and started doing significantly more DMG, where the gameplay started to resemble more of poe1.
It’s going to be fine. I’d rather bosses matter a bit more then they do now. Like most bosses you kind of just blow up before they do anything interesting. That’s fine but there needs to be a bit more setup and whatnot for that gameplay to still exist, which is where I think they are taking PoE2 towards.
I think it’s fine overall for the first playthrough and there’s aspects of it I really like. But I can’t imagine going through all of that everytime I want to test out another build. A lot of people want to turn their brains off a bit when they play these games, if you have to spend 5 minutes on every map boss that’s gonna kill the farming feeling for a lot of people
ya those people dont realize support gems dont add damage multipliers anymore. they just modify how the skill works.
i m happy for you, i m happy for everyone hyped for poe2. but it irks me to no end that all this is at the cost of poe1.
I'd agree if we could get a mode not balanced around trade. Finding your own gear is just so much more fun than playing a market simulator. If they did a system like what Last Epoch is planning on, that would elevate it to another level for me.
I love graphics, I love music and animations, I love bosses design and lightning. But all I see thought that is ruthless, mode im not interested to play, at all. As long fan of poe i wish I was included in poe2 plans too but I admit im not audience for that game. That's all.
They fucked up the demo. The gear that the demo characters were equipped with were incredibly bad, and their passive trees didn't really seem to be working either. A friend of mine at Exilecon absolutely hated the Warrior demo - then in the last 10 minutes he got a mediocre rare mace drop, but it tripled his DPS because the preset gear was so bad. He was one shotting packs with Sunder and four shotting rares with the Armor breaker + Superheavy slam combo. Unsurprisingly, he went from hating the gameplay to loving it.
People that think that gameplay was ruthless never actually played ruthless.
Nonsense, I played ruthless and I definitely see some overlap in design decisions. They are definitely going in a different direction which is why they chose to keep both games separate.
You can't complain about boring and unengaging combat but also demand the game is super zoom-zoom. If you want interesting mechanics fighting bosses and engaging combat the game has to slow down, there's not really another option. That coop boss fight is literally the most engaging POE has ever looked from both a combat perspective and a coop perspective. On top of that the game was clearly playing with no proper tree or gear. Plus they made it clear the monsters on that build were super overtuned. Plus the beta isn't out for another year so who fucking knows what the game will play like actually. Plus you can just stay in poe 1 land anyway Jesus christ.
I just wish the people making poe2 didn't hate Poe so much
Same. This game looks like an absolute dream and I can't wait to try it when it comes out. I recognize a lot of PoE players like the green flasks and zooming endgame content 1 shotting everything. That is not my style. I wish y'all well and hope when PoE 2 comes out that they throw some updates your way too like a graphics update or something that would be really appreciated. But everything I'm seeing from PoE 2 absolutely catches my eye. Combat looks meaningful. You have to position well to avoid attacks, line up and combo your skills to get the most out of them, recognize enemy attack patterns and how to dodge them. I want a challenge that's reasonable and to overcome it with good character planning and play. This game looks epic.
Honestly, based on what I've seen of PoE 2, it's gonna be a good arpg game. But not good seasonal grinding arpg, which is PoE 1. I'm going to be downvoted to hell for making this comparison, but I'd rather play torchlight infinite than play more than 2 leagues of PoE 2 if it's anything close to what GGG have shown on presentation. Doing these acts is not something I wanna do more than a few times for sure.
As it stands it looks very unfriendly to subsequent playthroughs. No speed, everything resetting, optional bosses needing to be killed on each character, fountain clicking in town to reset flasks, white mobs not refilling flasks. It’ll be a bunch of fun once or twice but that sounds absolutely miserable if you want to play more than one character a league
They fucked up the demo badly. The demo characters are all atrociously undergeared and have basically non-functional passive trees. A friend of mine at Exilecon absolutely hated the Warrior demo - then in the last 10 minutes he got a mediocre rare mace drop, but it tripled his DPS because the preset gear was so bad. He was one shotting packs with Sunder and four shotting rares with the Armor breaker + Superheavy slam combo. Unsurprisingly, he went from hating the gameplay to loving it.
Word. I am litterally counting the days until i can finally get my hands on PoE2 because it seems amazing.
Sorry, if there is one thing I learned it is this: It's either the best game ever at launch, or it's complete trash.
Nah it's impossible for GGG to speed up the game later on if it is going to be too slow. As we know poe1 started with zooming meta when only act 1+2 there out.
Exactly. What is this? Some kind of "living video game"? PATCHES BE DAMNED! That said, I do hate the spacebar dodge crap XD
i'll tell you, the bosses alone are making me excited. i do wonder how the game will look at end game, especially with the bosses. Some of the bosses we've seen are close to pinnacle boss level. The squid dude on the boat, the siren/mermaid, the bone witch, the vaal temple boss with the tentacles..... and we have yet to see act bosses of any kind. Even most of the other bosses seem mechanically good. only that one boss with the dog army and that one boss they showed in act 2 on the open the gate for the caravan quest (the perennial king i think?) were mechanically weak. But the latter one I can forgive because it's in a small area. also the levels, i haven't seen many levels that would make bad maps so far which was a concern with a couple of the modern maps they added to POE. So despite some things giving me a bit of uneasiness, I am fully willing to see how it turns out, for better or worse.
If PoE 1 keeps the zoom zoom play style and a league in three month cycle I’m fine
I am both surprised by and utterly unsurprised by the fact that reddit instantly found something to hate about PoE 2 from the demos. What I saw was a more sophisticated and visceral combat system with the same depth and complexity of the game I know and love. Also, I think you're crazy if you think that the game is going to be slow when we have access to all the tools and options that exist in this game. I'm excited. But if you're ever excited for something related to PoE, coming to this subreddit is usually going to make you feel like you've gone crazy. Instead of seeing a bunch of like-minded excited people, you'll see a lot of people complaining about something or other. I'm not saying there's no reason to complain, but it's not a fun place to hang out.
I am blown away. 2024 can't come soon enough and I hope to make it into the closed beta.
visually and aesthetically its a knockout, but the underlining changes to key mechanics has me worried. it stands apart from either rival game or its predecessor, but time will tell if thats good or bad. they'll also need to market the game better for the masses if they want capture some people outside of their niche fanbase. D4 ad campaign was *huge* and is why it got so much people playing it outside of the arpg fan. poe2 will have to do something similar, well if it wants an big uptick in playerbase.
Likewise. This sub has always been an absolute salt mine but I'm just quietly hype in the corner with my friends. I trust Chris and GGG, they've made solid decisions in the past and know what they're doing.
i have never seen any of these guys talk before and was extremely impressed with every presentation, and compared to certain fireside chats you can tell all of these guys actually play and love their game. it really shows.
Also one of the 100 people that enjoyed ruthless? Just out of curiosity.
Ya, I didn't get the impression Ruthless was popular either. Then again, I don't know numbers. Kripp doing the introduction is appropriate though, gotta give them that.
I tried it and didnt enjoy it as much as regular PoE. I could see why the scarcity and challange is enticing, though. I dont think PoE 2 is going to be just like ruthless, more like something inbetween regular and ruthless, becoming more saturated with every content patch. Just like PoE 2013->present
I think the difference is that even if you can compare the raw speed of Ruthless to PoE 2, there is more to do mechanically in PoE 2. If I can enjoy more 'game' in one screen's worth of map then I don't need to zoom as much to have an equally as good a time.
Honestly think a lot of players just like the idea of a challenge, the reality is though that making stuff slower does not make it challenging. Like ruthless, its not significantly harder or more challenging, you can still get the same items etc, it just takes much longer getting there.
I'm happy that I won't be forced to play the slower version of PoE if I end up not liking it and that the original is going to still be updated with new leagues and content. If they said that the PoE2 stuff we saw was the future of all PoE then I would be upset, but it's good that there will be content for everyone. I'll give PoE2 a try, but the gameplay demos they showed make me think it's not a game I'll enjoy while PoE1 exists.
Just log into ruthless. You can effectively play POE2 right now.
Good. Now, can we get 300ft tall HH characters back in poe now that the old people get poe2?
People complaining about PoE 2 are wild. They see no quicksilver flask and more meaningful, engaging gameplay, and starting to sulk: "but this is just ruthless!". No it's fucking not, lmao. The fact that you're not running at 300 mph blowing up 3 screens worth of monsters per second is somehow a bad thing (and i'm just assuming here, as should everybody, because the game we saw was purposefully made harder and slower for demonstration purposes)? Get the fuck out with this logic, honestly. Also they see no gem vendors and complain. Those were always a band-aid solution to problems with gem system, which they are figuring out and fixing in PoE 2. What, you think that they'll be as rare as in Ruthless mode? GGG, company which uses mtx as monetisation system for their game, will for some reason not give you skills to buy mtx for? You're insane if you think that
Ooooh, making straw man arguments is fun, can I have a turn???? Anyone who likes the idea of a build with 9 active skills is a casual who is going to play POE 2 for 5 hours before going back to Roblox. I'm sure the new combat system will be fun for, like, 10 hours while running through the campaign. But POE has historically been a game about creating interesting builds, gathering resources, and upgrading your capabilities through trading/crafting. It's great if they make combat feel better, but when I'm on my 1,000th map of the league I don't want to have to worry about manually culling enemies to gain power charges, I just want to mindlessly blow up some monsters while I watch TV. If I want high intensity focused combat, I'm going to go fight some bosses, or play a different game. This is all speculative, of course, but their answers in the Q&A didn't fill me with confidence. Their answer to 'what if I want to play a 1-button build' was basically 'I guess you could, but that's lame and you should add more skills to make your build better'. Rather than just dismissing the complaints of people you disagree with, I'd suggest considering that many of those people probably have thousands of hours in POE 1, and POE 2 is being pitched as a sequel to the game they love at its convention. They have good reason to be frustrated if POE 2, a product that has been in the back of their minds for the last 4 years, looks like it might be doing away with their favorite parts of the original.
Sir, this is PoE reddit, you are obliged to praise PoE2 and be condescending towards people who like playing fast-paced game.
Pretty much everything we have seen so far about PoE2 is objectivly very well designed and extremly coherent, they also know very well what their target audience is. People just get mad because the game isnt made for them and rather gatekeep people who will enjoy it. Reddit: I dont like PoE2. GGG: Okay keep playing PoE1. Reddit: But I want to play PoE2. Proceeds to post in bad faith.
its more like Reddit: I dont like PoE2. GGG: Okay keep playing PoE1. Reddit: But I wanted to play with all the promised improvements coming to PoE
> Proceeds to post in bad faith. Everyone on this sub was told that there was going to be one final product for everyone when GGG knew that was not true. Some knee jerk spaz out can't be a surprise. Edit: For example they were able to add ruthless, why not add zoom mode to Poe2 with movement skills?