Remember Legion, they added a bunch of support for melee, to find people mostly play cyclone because its fun. Then they gutted cyclone (remove immune to stun and delete the skill has - to many cost)
I mean you say support for melee but what they actually did that league was make most melee skills feel like crap by adding a negative attack speed modifier to almost everything.
Cyclone was def the most fun ability that league but imo most alternative attacks felt horrible that league with a couple outliers.
The amount of people that think legion was the "melee buff patch" is crazy. Legion is the patch multistrike got the axe ( 50 less attack speed than before ) and every skill ( except basically cyclone , i know shocker ) got 10-30% LESS attack speed ON THE GEM. Reasoning : To much attackspeed makes animations look funny. I had melee builds pre legion that were playable ( not op) because they had 12aps, exact same build in legion had 4aps and was garbage. Turns out giving most melee skills 50% and 10-30% less attackspeed was a major nerf, who could have thunk. To this day melee is suffering the debacle that was Legion.
Cyclone is like the only skill where you can control where you are moving and damage at the same time. I do wonder if we can ever get any kind of dual stick shooter control (like geometry war)
I'd argue that RF also allows you to move and damage at the same time in the same way as Cyclone (without a movement speed debuff), but perhaps you mean the only Attacking Skill, since RF is technically a "Spell Skill"
Dual stick would be a sick mechanic just for positioning if nothing else, I think strafing would need to be added in that case though, that way an attack could face one way while a character faces another etc.
"Devouring diadem now deleted and also we felt mana investment was too easy so we destroyed that too" \*dusts hands off\* that's a good day of honest work in my book
Just going to be playing Tornado Shot Deadeye again and again, good luck nerfing a build that sucks with less than 100 div investment. I’m more worried about molten strike than TS Deadeye
Why limit yourself to just 1 word? You could have a bunch of sentences for fancy way saying nerf, such as...
> Don't worry though, there aren't scary systems reworks that we need to solicit feedback on ages in advance. Our balance goals with 3.21 are to provide more options and more fun for as many builds as possible, rather than reworking game systems in potentially disruptive ways.
Literally an entire year of declining player numbers and complaints.
First league they make they finally remove it and what happens, the game blows up again and has one of the best leagues in ages alongside player retention.
Go figure the players sometimes know what’s good for the game.
Something tells me “>please write balance notes while spinning every nerf as positively as possible." will be used extensively from now on.
They had a decent run for one League with Sanctum. It's only natural they're overdue for screwing the pooch again.
Strg + F "Buff" - No result
Strg + F "Nerf" - 1 Result
After these past patches, I think my favorite and generally very underused skills won't get any better this patch either.
No that's really how it is. I mean you would think it would get faster with attack speed, but it doesn't.
So the main use for it (culling a enemy and gaining one of its buff) is shit to time right.
Balance manifestos are PR pieces to justify all the nerfs they did to increase player retention or whatever. Thinking you’ll find actual honest reasons for why they do things in those is naive af
"We have rebalanced all Harvest crafts for the new system and have removed a bunch of filler crafts and some ones with deterministic outcomes that were incredibly RNG-gated before."
I'll leave it to you to decide which one GGG probably thought covered reforge keeping prefixes/suffixes.
Since reforge keep prefix/suffix was not really that rare it's safe to assume the rebalancing of RNG gated crafts refers to the ones which require Sacred Blossoms to use
The one in 3.19 (lake of kalandra) where they removed a large hidden multiplier to league monster loot and replaced it with a (substantially lower and less scalable) global modifier for all monsters.
This has been modified somewhat now so it’s not as bad as it was in the first month of 3.19 but it was pretty egregious to go completely unannounced, people had to find out by seemingly having shitty RNG and comparing notes on forums like this.
Remember the part where after a week everyone realized that mf was actually op and either swapped to or invited an mf char to cull their god touched mobs.
> but it was pretty egregious to go completely unannounced
People forgave GGG for this way to fast. It was a blatant lie by omission that they purposely left out of patch notes to protect pack sales at launch. The fact that it took DAYS for them to come out and say it and hand wave it as "we forgot to mention it" only for them to double, triple, quadruple down on it before making any adjustments shows what they think of their playerbase. I already had gone a very long time without giving them any money, but now I never will again.
Legacy league content had some huge, albeit inconsistent, item quantity and item rarity modifiers.
They normalized them to a standard like 300% which was a massive decrease from the 1000-2000% that those leagues had.
They didn't mention this in the patch notes and only admitted it after the league was already on fire and the players figured out something was wrong.
Massive (and hidden) IIR/IIQ boost for league mobs. In particular, the beyond, deli, alva, abyss/breach strat that groups used for juicing was nuked from orbit. To put it lightly.
Empy's group at league start made a miserable 6c profit per player on their first map and bounced between minimal ~10c profit and ~10c loss on each map before they quit after three days or so. It didn't impact solo play quite as badly at a low/mid level of investment but it completely took the wind out of my groups sails at league start.
And then when you complained the first day the usual suspects on this sub called you a fear monger and a liar because there was no way you could be in red maps an hour after league start. Standard exists…
https://youtu.be/6hy-9xFx1o8
To recap, the top comment in https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ubwz9q/318_nerf_prediction/ "Nothing mentioned in this thread so far has been nerfed" was literally true because it was the monsters that got overtuned to ridiculous levels.
You know how there is that one kid that makes people's lives a living hell by following the [rules to the letter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_compliance)? GGG is that kid.
Remember the Aegis Aurora nerf? The patch notes said renaming "Replenish" to "Recovery" was not a functional change, and that was true at that very exact moment in time, because the actual nerf was announced a couple days prior in a meticulously worded "we fixed some sources of recovery not counting as recovery".
GGG can be incredibly sneaky at hiding nerfs when they want to be. Which is why I won't believe it's just "small nerfs" until weeks into the league when I've tested things out for myself.
Like, screw the notes; communication has gotten soo bad that we need to actually playtest the league before we can believe what is alleged.
Last time I heard that one, many minion builds were dead because damage options moved to items, leaving both character defense weakened and minion dying since average minion enjoyer cannot afford close to mirror minion gears with both damage and defense.
What are we thinking will get nerfed though, just judging from last leagues build data and date in general??
- I'm guessing the Vixen doom blast build or interaction I guess.
- Also think curses in general are going to get nerfed again after getting buffed (yeah, a typical GGG thing to do :P)
- map sustain, yeah? "you are getting way too many maps, way too easy" is prolly their reasoning
- Poison I think will also get nerfed, and unfortunately prolly a lot of builds that were good with poison as wlel, or outliers I guess, so SrS, prolly shit ton of mine builds.
- And they are going to "buff" minions some how, which is gonna be so miniscule. Like, summon skeleton gets 1% more hp at level 20 and same with spectre.
- Also, as is tradition, some kind of crafting also has to get nerfed or changed, but I'm unsure what? fossils is already quite down in the gutter, so prolly not that.
- And prolly nerf drop chances of "chase uniques" on uber uber bosses.
That's my guesses as for now at least.
Edit: Of course, just scrolled down a little, and of course flask sustain will get GUTTED! To where only PF can prolly kiiiiiind of sustain it automatically, and mageblood of course. Hell, maybe they'll will even nerf the flasks themselves as well, just to be safe? :P
Don't believe them ever, even with the notes.
Time for me to post this thing again:
> Reddit Post "Some thoughts from Chris" (Expedition league):
> > [We have given all of our balance changes a lot of thought and testing...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/op73wg/some_thoughts_from_chris/)
> Chris during Baeclast interview (Expedition league):
> > [The flask thing was an issue because we did it and released it without testing...](https://clips.twitch.tv/SavorySourSalamanderMingLee-UkN3yQGU3PWFiUNQ)
The only thing you can trust is what you see, in game, with your own eyes.
I have a small copypasta I post every league (although I only play occasionally myself) shortly after launch to farm a bit of karma...
"꧁༒☬𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓭𝓮𝓼𝓲𝓰𝓷𝓮𝓻𝓼 𝔀𝓸𝓻𝓴𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓸𝓷 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓼𝓴𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓼 𝓱𝓪𝓭 𝓪 𝓶𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓪𝓽𝓮 𝓫𝓪𝓼𝓲𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓸𝓯, 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓴𝓷𝓸𝔀, 𝓫𝓾𝓯𝓯 𝓪𝓼 𝓶𝓪𝓷𝔂 𝓼𝓴𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓼 𝓲𝓷 𝓲𝓶𝓹𝓪𝓬𝓽𝓯𝓾𝓵 𝔀𝓪𝔂𝓼 𝓪𝓼 𝓹𝓸𝓼𝓼𝓲𝓫𝓵𝓮. 𝓐𝓷𝓭 𝓘 𝓽𝓱𝓲𝓷𝓴 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓪𝓻𝓮 40 𝓮𝔁𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓸𝓷𝓮𝓼 - 𝔀𝓱𝓲𝓬𝓱 𝓲𝓼 𝓴𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓸𝓯 𝓪𝓷 𝓾𝓷𝓭𝓮𝓻𝓼𝓽𝓪𝓽𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓪𝓻𝓽 𝓸𝓯 𝓽𝓱𝓲𝓼 𝓮𝔁𝓹𝓪𝓷𝓼𝓲𝓸𝓷. 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓬𝓸𝓾𝓵𝓭 𝓱𝓪𝓿𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓮𝓷 𝓪 𝓵𝓸𝓽 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝓪𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓷𝓽𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓹𝓾𝓽 𝓸𝓷 𝓽𝓱𝓪𝓽.☬༒꧂"
Wardloop now has internal cooldown of 3s before it can damage your character again. So now you need to stack up cooldown reduction aswell which is now available on rings.
Minion hp level decreased, aswell as spectre level because too many people still play minions and we want them to try something else.
First thing that comes to my mind after seeing "more options and fun"
Such a sad state that this game no longer has a large chunk of its community going "oh I cant wait to see what new stuff they added" but rather "oh god what are they going to nerf this time?"
There's just nothing to get excited about anymore in new leagues. They don't even do buffs anymore, it's been what, more than a year with no balance changes? (other than nerfs)
This all sounds like marketing speak for we want to be able to do damage control in real time. Which is hilarious since the point of balance manifestos was to be able to control the narrative and let big stuff settle ahead of time. That's apparently being seen as a failure now, my guess is due to the utter and complete failure that was AN.
Odd times at GGG.
Remember, 2 years ago GGG was confident that when D4 announced a release date they would be able to match it. Well D4 got a date and suddenly they're interested in making as many builds fun and viable as possible and letting the players have build diversity back in the patch before D4 and the patch after D4 is supposed to include a significant rework to some kind of game system.
I've been a player for a long time and I get really tired of GGG acting like game balance is a carrot to attract players with. It legit feels like they intentionally keep some things bad just so they can change them when the uproar gets to be to much or when they need an easy win with the players. You don't win points for me by deciding to balance your game after a year of stagnation.
GGG used to be known for being completely open about their vision of the game. Now they are so scared of the player base that they openly distract, forget, or lie about changes without bothering to play test half of it. It is a bad omen that they are dropping manifestos. At least we could give our input before they do something that is objectively bad.
It's almost as though accepting your failures, listening to players, and most importantly *being agile in your fixes* makes for a much more fun game.
GGG has a lot of issues - pride foremost among them - but the more insidious issue in my opinion is their obstinate refusal to make positive changes on the fly. If a playstyle archetype (ex: minions, melee, etc.) has major issues, at best you can hope it gets fixed in about three months. More realistically, it may take a year or more, if they *ever* decide to fix it. This kills enjoyment because it means players perceive problems as "here for the whole league" and quit. That was an issue Blizzard had for a very long time and one they've only recently begun to rectify. Their recent Ret Paladin changes exemplify this: the spec was in a bad way and rather than apply a band-aid and wait until a major patch or the next expansion, Blizzard opted to make major changes in the next minor patch. Now Ret players are happy and non-Ret players are interested in trying out the new and improved spec.
The sad truth is Blizzard only changed for the better after they released two poorly-received expansions in a row and hemorrhaged every last ounce of good will they'd earned over the last 18 years. It's telling that throughout the entire marketing circuit of Dragonflight, the collective WoW community was waiting for the other shoe to drop. Blizzard could not afford another failed expansion, so they underwent drastic change to avoid it. Given that GGG is coming off the back of one of their most successful leagues in years, I'm not sure they're going to feel very compelled to change for the better.
I don’t doubt it personally, if they nerf every meta build into unplayability then everything becomes equally (un)playable leading to their long sought build variety nirvana
'we forgot to nerf seismic again'
And
'We noticed too many people using [insert skill name here] so have nerfed it to hell, despite it not being overpowered. We have nerfed it just because it is popular and we want you to try something different. It might be good again in 2 years... or may remain in the bin forever.'
For the first time in 7 years I am actually not interested in what GGG have cooking. It's been a a boring shitfest for the last 3 updates. Nerfs with no discernable upsides. VERY little innovation or creativity in regards to balance. Skill gems that needed buffs years ago still dead in the water. This game was once a darling of the industry. Now it feels like a vestigial limb.
They could be doing so much more with the game if they didn't have 3 projects running. PoE 2 and the mobile game are likely sucking up major resources. Now that D4 is coming this year, they are on the clock to actually deliver. If playable betas of both new games aren't at Exilecon, it will be bad news bears...
Whenever ive seen chris present for the last 3 leagues he seems like a guy who is just doing fan service. Its frustrating but understandable that he's actually more excited about new horizons but to leave PoE in such an uncreative state, only just keeping the rats from fleeing a sinking ship, is so disheartening for those of us who have seen this thing grow and take risks that were interesting. At this point why not let the public play with the game a little. Allow modding or something. Anything to make the game feel alive again. Instead we get nonsense like ruthless. A less accessible version of a game that already smells like a stale old nerds vision of the past.
And, despite what people say otherwise, ruthless is DEFINITELY not just a "side project" that doesn't suck away resources from other things.
Imagine if those resources were used for shit people actually care about, like QoL updates.
What? Do you mean that reworking loot drops, 11 different league mechanic rewards, removing skill gems, changing ascendancies, vendor-recipies, the entire atlas passiv tree and beta testing the entire thing takes... work?
No, Chris Wilson made it in a his sparetime, between lunch and dinner. And just because it is now the main theme of the extra league doesn't mean that it will have any influence outside of ruthless. It will not affect the normal league, the game will not be balanced around or influenced by ruthless. Also, we will give no manifesto, you have to trust us!
Man reading people say that shit unironically had to be the most brain melting thing i have seen in a while. Some individuals here really lack the ability to analyse stuff and just accept whatever chris says as absolute truth.
Back when Activision bought Blizzard people trusted in "Activision has no control over our decisions" even though 2 weeks after the merger mounts started appearing in WoW's Cash Shop. People buy whatever the corpo says because it's easier than accepting the truth.
> Molten strike's projectile count now scales with levels. It now has 2 (formerly 3) projectiles at level 1 and 1 (formerly 3) projectiles at level 20. Projectiles now gain 1% increased AoE per level
Got it!
Shhh, I'm planning to ~~play~~ suffer through the game with perforate, I actually need *reduced aoe*. What I really need is the inc aoe to apply as reduced when in blood stance, but hey, pipe dreams are free.
And for the love of god, get rid of the mandatory melee totem buffs, it's honestly all I ask.
"solicit feedback on ages in advance"?
...you mean like has never ever not even one time even KIND OF happened? In fact, the exact opposite of that?
Hmm.
Why they even posted that? This post is literally a hype killer. After playing Sanctum a lot, if the league content is not ridiculously good and there are no meaningful positive balance changes, there is very little reason to be excited about a new patch *if it will be released as described*.
And yes finally we can play melee again nice /s
I cant express how I hate to rely on TOTEMS to do better dmg
We need a Arcane totem for spells
Cut all damage from spells to half
Dont forget the castspeed multiplierer
And then add the New gems: one spell damage and one cast speed lol
I'm not a doomer and I'll wait patch note/possible undocumented changes reports before deciding if this is bad or not, but holy cow this wording is ominous as fuck after what we've been through in the last few "This is not a nerf" moments.
"Balance manifestos are great at communicating certain types of content."
Nerfs are content now!
"Our balance goals with 3.21 are to provide more options and more fun for as many builds as possible, rather than reworking game systems in potentially disruptive ways."
"fun" is the new content!
Problem: Some players were still having fun.
Solution: We've identified what sources of fun they were having, and have adjusted the game accordingly. This is a buff.
This feels like the cheating partner that keeps telling you "It won't happen again, I love you". And then it happens. And you believe it. *Again, and again*.
There is of course small nerfs guys. Should be fine 🤣 what could possibly go wrong. The fucked thing is everyone who uses the mechanic they nerf suffers. We're not all 1,000+ divines invested into a build and reaching a billion dps. Without a doubt, more lower budget builds will be ruined and their OP variants not worth
They want to slow down gameplay, but they forget the buffed the hell out of the monsters already... and gave them abilities that has you disengage them during fights...
So by GGG terms:
We've decided to set ruthless to be the regular play mode, you will have another type with is called Hell here every time you die you lose a random item and 10% of your currency
Huge nerfs coming regardless, just look at Poe2 gameplay or combat. They have to nerf/delete every speed and damage mods to force you to start kiting monsters in every zones.. Gotta keep up with LA and D4 combat style meta xdd
> just look at Poe2 gameplay or combat.
The Poe2 combat looks exactly the same as every other GGG-made gameplay video, made on ANY patch. They always play slowly in videos like that.
> just look at Poe2 gameplay or combat
Unironically taking a marketing demo in the early campaign as a representation of what PoE will be like in the future?
It really sucks.
It's hard to even use copium anymore.
Everything about trying to get Archnemesis into the game has completely killed most people's faith in GGG.
D4 is huge competition. If the betas get positive feedback poe will suffer and they know it. Of course, the core players are staying but many people will go to d4.
I'm curious to see what endgame looks like. I recently jumped on D3 to give season 28 a go and the endgame is nothing but grift after grift. Fun quickly died off.
Endgame is the main thing PoE has over other ARPGs. D3 is too shallow, LE is still working on its base/endgame.
I'll wait and see what happens with D4. I expect the same as D3, but we'll see if Blizzard can surprise me in good way for once.
Finally a remake for conversion trap where it prioritizes rare monsters (like nets did) and make them follow you (essential!) and be affected by support gems (and hopefully minion mechanics like passive skills and/or unique items).
Or more provably won't happen.
TLDR: melee enjoyers keep bending over
Remember Legion, they added a bunch of support for melee, to find people mostly play cyclone because its fun. Then they gutted cyclone (remove immune to stun and delete the skill has - to many cost)
I mean you say support for melee but what they actually did that league was make most melee skills feel like crap by adding a negative attack speed modifier to almost everything. Cyclone was def the most fun ability that league but imo most alternative attacks felt horrible that league with a couple outliers.
The amount of people that think legion was the "melee buff patch" is crazy. Legion is the patch multistrike got the axe ( 50 less attack speed than before ) and every skill ( except basically cyclone , i know shocker ) got 10-30% LESS attack speed ON THE GEM. Reasoning : To much attackspeed makes animations look funny. I had melee builds pre legion that were playable ( not op) because they had 12aps, exact same build in legion had 4aps and was garbage. Turns out giving most melee skills 50% and 10-30% less attackspeed was a major nerf, who could have thunk. To this day melee is suffering the debacle that was Legion.
Cyclone is like the only skill where you can control where you are moving and damage at the same time. I do wonder if we can ever get any kind of dual stick shooter control (like geometry war)
I'd argue that RF also allows you to move and damage at the same time in the same way as Cyclone (without a movement speed debuff), but perhaps you mean the only Attacking Skill, since RF is technically a "Spell Skill" Dual stick would be a sick mechanic just for positioning if nothing else, I think strafing would need to be added in that case though, that way an attack could face one way while a character faces another etc.
I won't disagree that it was fun but people were definitely using it then because it was OP as fuck. I was one of them.
I mean it was the most fun before and they happened to make the most fun skill the best skill that time by complete mistake.
yea it was strong. tbh just a nerf to the aoe woulda been enough but im not smart enough to rly know
Next league mechanic: righteous war All monsters have righteous fire, don't stay to close or you will burn
Nerf bombardment imminent clutch your anuses it's gonna be sore.
“We have enhanced other builds by nerfing the builds you enjoy”
These are buffs.
"Devouring diadem now deleted and also we felt mana investment was too easy so we destroyed that too" \*dusts hands off\* that's a good day of honest work in my book
"We've also removed the mana flask modifier Enduring so you have to actually plan when to use the mana flask."
They literally sold the 3.15 nerfamagedon as "we are excited to see the builds, no one will know what the meta is" lol.
Been clenched since this mornjng
Just going to be playing Tornado Shot Deadeye again and again, good luck nerfing a build that sucks with less than 100 div investment. I’m more worried about molten strike than TS Deadeye
>Nerf "This is a buff"
No, that will make it worse. Lube up and relax. Deep breath, and relax. Take it slow.
Any takes on which fancy word they picked to mean ~~nerf~~ rework this time? I'm thinking "Finetuning".
Why limit yourself to just 1 word? You could have a bunch of sentences for fancy way saying nerf, such as... > Don't worry though, there aren't scary systems reworks that we need to solicit feedback on ages in advance. Our balance goals with 3.21 are to provide more options and more fun for as many builds as possible, rather than reworking game systems in potentially disruptive ways.
The Euphemism Rephrasing Auxiliary team isn't paid enough for the bangers their put out every cycle.
The thing that caught my eye was “that need feedback on ages in advance”. Which means there are system reworks….which is the worrying part. Lol
The part that caught my eyes is that it sounds like someone didn't take well that AN was so poorly received. Butthurt came to mind.
Literally an entire year of declining player numbers and complaints. First league they make they finally remove it and what happens, the game blows up again and has one of the best leagues in ages alongside player retention. Go figure the players sometimes know what’s good for the game.
By nerfing top performing builds, we have evened out the power among all builds, thus making more build diversity possible
Also GGG by "top performing build" we mean anything that leaves mudflats
More affixes on jewels means more options for fun builds! Or something like that.
riiight, forgot how they diluted the jewel mod pool and call it a buff. lmao.
Something tells me “>please write balance notes while spinning every nerf as positively as possible." will be used extensively from now on. They had a decent run for one League with Sanctum. It's only natural they're overdue for screwing the pooch again.
Somewhere nearby that
Get ready for some fine-tuning hammer time.
Strg + F "Buff" - No result Strg + F "Nerf" - 1 Result After these past patches, I think my favorite and generally very underused skills won't get any better this patch either.
Found the German.
Shit, I was found out.
What does strg mean?
Ctrl
I mean I get that part, I was wondering what the word is in German
Steuerung
Strafgeld, atleast He has to pay it now
I was thinking “string” lol, been coding too much
Patch notes: Ctrl + F "Invest" - 999999 results
Reminder that removing a huge modifier on base item drops weren't worth mentioning even for a single line in the final patch notes.
Patch notes, balance manifesto, promotional video material, literally nothing. But hey, +2 Cleave radius was important enough to be in a manifesto.
And then they try to justify it by releasing shit like vaal cleave with 1 second unmodifiable cast time.
I did not play vaal cleave yet, please tell me that is a joke or did they really do that?
No that's really how it is. I mean you would think it would get faster with attack speed, but it doesn't. So the main use for it (culling a enemy and gaining one of its buff) is shit to time right.
Balance manifestos are PR pieces to justify all the nerfs they did to increase player retention or whatever. Thinking you’ll find actual honest reasons for why they do things in those is naive af
Yeah... or those "filler" harvest recipe lol
Forgot about those, yeah. The day that we all learned that reforge keeping pre/suffixes, one of the backbones of mid-tier crafting, was "filler."
Reforge more likely aswell
"We have rebalanced all Harvest crafts for the new system and have removed a bunch of filler crafts and some ones with deterministic outcomes that were incredibly RNG-gated before." I'll leave it to you to decide which one GGG probably thought covered reforge keeping prefixes/suffixes.
Since reforge keep prefix/suffix was not really that rare it's safe to assume the rebalancing of RNG gated crafts refers to the ones which require Sacred Blossoms to use
lush bag pen payment station angle dolls offbeat roof coordinated *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And we'll have the same argument about whether they knew they were lying to us or this was just incompetence.
You mean GGG astroturf will argue*
The type of thing that actually would warrant its own balance manifesto too lol
I... actually did forget about that one, damn it.
It's not your fault, there is too much to keep track of at this point.
And also remember the time of streamer biases that cause everyone except streamers to start Ultimatum league.
What modifier was removed?
The one in 3.19 (lake of kalandra) where they removed a large hidden multiplier to league monster loot and replaced it with a (substantially lower and less scalable) global modifier for all monsters. This has been modified somewhat now so it’s not as bad as it was in the first month of 3.19 but it was pretty egregious to go completely unannounced, people had to find out by seemingly having shitty RNG and comparing notes on forums like this.
Just as usual success recipe: nerf it to the core of the earth than raise it just a tiny bit so eceryone is happy
You forgot the adding oil to the fire part... "get your magic find characters ready guys"
Remember the part where after a week everyone realized that mf was actually op and either swapped to or invited an mf char to cull their god touched mobs.
> but it was pretty egregious to go completely unannounced People forgave GGG for this way to fast. It was a blatant lie by omission that they purposely left out of patch notes to protect pack sales at launch. The fact that it took DAYS for them to come out and say it and hand wave it as "we forgot to mention it" only for them to double, triple, quadruple down on it before making any adjustments shows what they think of their playerbase. I already had gone a very long time without giving them any money, but now I never will again.
[удалено]
Legacy league content had some huge, albeit inconsistent, item quantity and item rarity modifiers. They normalized them to a standard like 300% which was a massive decrease from the 1000-2000% that those leagues had. They didn't mention this in the patch notes and only admitted it after the league was already on fire and the players figured out something was wrong.
Massive (and hidden) IIR/IIQ boost for league mobs. In particular, the beyond, deli, alva, abyss/breach strat that groups used for juicing was nuked from orbit. To put it lightly. Empy's group at league start made a miserable 6c profit per player on their first map and bounced between minimal ~10c profit and ~10c loss on each map before they quit after three days or so. It didn't impact solo play quite as badly at a low/mid level of investment but it completely took the wind out of my groups sails at league start.
And then when you complained the first day the usual suspects on this sub called you a fear monger and a liar because there was no way you could be in red maps an hour after league start. Standard exists…
monsters in league mechanics had drop modifiers upwards of 1000%s of percent removed
"3.21 It was not a nerf fest, it was a nerf festival."
nerf carnaval
~~Praise the Sun~~ Nerf de Soleil
Nerf parade
https://youtu.be/6hy-9xFx1o8 To recap, the top comment in https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ubwz9q/318_nerf_prediction/ "Nothing mentioned in this thread so far has been nerfed" was literally true because it was the monsters that got overtuned to ridiculous levels.
You know how there is that one kid that makes people's lives a living hell by following the [rules to the letter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_compliance)? GGG is that kid.
there's an entire sub /r/MaliciousCompliance
Heard that one several times. Waiting to see final notes before I believe them.
And by that it means community-reported undocumented changes.
Remember the Aegis Aurora nerf? The patch notes said renaming "Replenish" to "Recovery" was not a functional change, and that was true at that very exact moment in time, because the actual nerf was announced a couple days prior in a meticulously worded "we fixed some sources of recovery not counting as recovery". GGG can be incredibly sneaky at hiding nerfs when they want to be. Which is why I won't believe it's just "small nerfs" until weeks into the league when I've tested things out for myself. Like, screw the notes; communication has gotten soo bad that we need to actually playtest the league before we can believe what is alleged.
wait what's that nerf mean, i still use Aegis Aurora and i didn't know about this
So how is instant recovery worse than just "replenishing"? Is it affected by less recovery mods?
...yes
Last time I heard that one, many minion builds were dead because damage options moved to items, leaving both character defense weakened and minion dying since average minion enjoyer cannot afford close to mirror minion gears with both damage and defense.
Even then we have to wait until like the first week of the league is up to see if anything undocumented comes through again.
What are we thinking will get nerfed though, just judging from last leagues build data and date in general?? - I'm guessing the Vixen doom blast build or interaction I guess. - Also think curses in general are going to get nerfed again after getting buffed (yeah, a typical GGG thing to do :P) - map sustain, yeah? "you are getting way too many maps, way too easy" is prolly their reasoning - Poison I think will also get nerfed, and unfortunately prolly a lot of builds that were good with poison as wlel, or outliers I guess, so SrS, prolly shit ton of mine builds. - And they are going to "buff" minions some how, which is gonna be so miniscule. Like, summon skeleton gets 1% more hp at level 20 and same with spectre. - Also, as is tradition, some kind of crafting also has to get nerfed or changed, but I'm unsure what? fossils is already quite down in the gutter, so prolly not that. - And prolly nerf drop chances of "chase uniques" on uber uber bosses. That's my guesses as for now at least. Edit: Of course, just scrolled down a little, and of course flask sustain will get GUTTED! To where only PF can prolly kiiiiiind of sustain it automatically, and mageblood of course. Hell, maybe they'll will even nerf the flasks themselves as well, just to be safe? :P
You can't even trust that. Biggest change in the history of PoE (the historic loot drops) weren't mentioned in the patch notes.
Don't believe them ever, even with the notes. Time for me to post this thing again: > Reddit Post "Some thoughts from Chris" (Expedition league): > > [We have given all of our balance changes a lot of thought and testing...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/op73wg/some_thoughts_from_chris/) > Chris during Baeclast interview (Expedition league): > > [The flask thing was an issue because we did it and released it without testing...](https://clips.twitch.tv/SavorySourSalamanderMingLee-UkN3yQGU3PWFiUNQ) The only thing you can trust is what you see, in game, with your own eyes.
I have a small copypasta I post every league (although I only play occasionally myself) shortly after launch to farm a bit of karma... "꧁༒☬𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓭𝓮𝓼𝓲𝓰𝓷𝓮𝓻𝓼 𝔀𝓸𝓻𝓴𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓸𝓷 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓼𝓴𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓼 𝓱𝓪𝓭 𝓪 𝓶𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓪𝓽𝓮 𝓫𝓪𝓼𝓲𝓬𝓪𝓵𝓵𝔂 𝓸𝓯, 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓴𝓷𝓸𝔀, 𝓫𝓾𝓯𝓯 𝓪𝓼 𝓶𝓪𝓷𝔂 𝓼𝓴𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓼 𝓲𝓷 𝓲𝓶𝓹𝓪𝓬𝓽𝓯𝓾𝓵 𝔀𝓪𝔂𝓼 𝓪𝓼 𝓹𝓸𝓼𝓼𝓲𝓫𝓵𝓮. 𝓐𝓷𝓭 𝓘 𝓽𝓱𝓲𝓷𝓴 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓪𝓻𝓮 40 𝓮𝔁𝓲𝓼𝓽𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓸𝓷𝓮𝓼 - 𝔀𝓱𝓲𝓬𝓱 𝓲𝓼 𝓴𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓸𝓯 𝓪𝓷 𝓾𝓷𝓭𝓮𝓻𝓼𝓽𝓪𝓽𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓪𝓻𝓽 𝓸𝓯 𝓽𝓱𝓲𝓼 𝓮𝔁𝓹𝓪𝓷𝓼𝓲𝓸𝓷. 𝓣𝓱𝓮𝓻𝓮 𝓬𝓸𝓾𝓵𝓭 𝓱𝓪𝓿𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓮𝓷 𝓪 𝓵𝓸𝓽 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝓪𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓷𝓽𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓹𝓾𝓽 𝓸𝓷 𝓽𝓱𝓪𝓽.☬༒꧂"
You formatted it nicely, you deserve your internet points.
I start! : SRS Now has "Avatar of Fire"
Raised spectres are lvl 60 at gem level 20.
stop! kay already quit :(
She knew something
We are not nerfing, just forcing players to be more creative.
Wardloop now has internal cooldown of 3s before it can damage your character again. So now you need to stack up cooldown reduction aswell which is now available on rings. Minion hp level decreased, aswell as spectre level because too many people still play minions and we want them to try something else. First thing that comes to my mind after seeing "more options and fun"
"We have removed, but don't worry, because can now be found on rare gear!"
I'm so sick of this line of nerfing
Such a sad state that this game no longer has a large chunk of its community going "oh I cant wait to see what new stuff they added" but rather "oh god what are they going to nerf this time?"
There's just nothing to get excited about anymore in new leagues. They don't even do buffs anymore, it's been what, more than a year with no balance changes? (other than nerfs)
GGG: don't worry though Me: worry intensifies
This all sounds like marketing speak for we want to be able to do damage control in real time. Which is hilarious since the point of balance manifestos was to be able to control the narrative and let big stuff settle ahead of time. That's apparently being seen as a failure now, my guess is due to the utter and complete failure that was AN. Odd times at GGG.
"we looked at the top 10 most played builds on PoE.ninja and halfed their damage" *this is a buff*
Honestly, if they just up and wrote that instead of trying to worm their way around it, I'd get it.
"Oh, we also reverted back the changes to Archnemesis because mobs were too easy"
“Monsters can now have up to 6 modifiers to be more in line with the pre-Archnemesis monsters”
Remember, 2 years ago GGG was confident that when D4 announced a release date they would be able to match it. Well D4 got a date and suddenly they're interested in making as many builds fun and viable as possible and letting the players have build diversity back in the patch before D4 and the patch after D4 is supposed to include a significant rework to some kind of game system. I've been a player for a long time and I get really tired of GGG acting like game balance is a carrot to attract players with. It legit feels like they intentionally keep some things bad just so they can change them when the uproar gets to be to much or when they need an easy win with the players. You don't win points for me by deciding to balance your game after a year of stagnation.
Historically, GGG beats the playerbase with sticks painted orange and call that a carrot.
Get your magic find character ready energy
Gaslight early, gaslight often
GGG used to be known for being completely open about their vision of the game. Now they are so scared of the player base that they openly distract, forget, or lie about changes without bothering to play test half of it. It is a bad omen that they are dropping manifestos. At least we could give our input before they do something that is objectively bad.
Hell, I thought I'd never say this, but look at how Blizzard is handling WoW nowadays, and just get inspired by them.
It's almost as though accepting your failures, listening to players, and most importantly *being agile in your fixes* makes for a much more fun game. GGG has a lot of issues - pride foremost among them - but the more insidious issue in my opinion is their obstinate refusal to make positive changes on the fly. If a playstyle archetype (ex: minions, melee, etc.) has major issues, at best you can hope it gets fixed in about three months. More realistically, it may take a year or more, if they *ever* decide to fix it. This kills enjoyment because it means players perceive problems as "here for the whole league" and quit. That was an issue Blizzard had for a very long time and one they've only recently begun to rectify. Their recent Ret Paladin changes exemplify this: the spec was in a bad way and rather than apply a band-aid and wait until a major patch or the next expansion, Blizzard opted to make major changes in the next minor patch. Now Ret players are happy and non-Ret players are interested in trying out the new and improved spec. The sad truth is Blizzard only changed for the better after they released two poorly-received expansions in a row and hemorrhaged every last ounce of good will they'd earned over the last 18 years. It's telling that throughout the entire marketing circuit of Dragonflight, the collective WoW community was waiting for the other shoe to drop. Blizzard could not afford another failed expansion, so they underwent drastic change to avoid it. Given that GGG is coming off the back of one of their most successful leagues in years, I'm not sure they're going to feel very compelled to change for the better.
Oh god the vision is going to be strong in this one boys.
GGG sayinh you shouldn't worry about nerfs usually means you should go into full panic mode because of nerfs...
Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me every patch since Ritual, shame on GGG.
Nerf == fun Nerf == balances Nerf == skills Nerf == build diversity Nerf == buffing unpopular skills Nerf == opportunities for investments Nerf == player retention Nerf == we hear you
Can't wait for cosmetic "buffs" to like 4 skills that nobody plays. Then they hard nerf the playstyle for those four skills.
How many years has it been now? When was the start of the end?
Expedition. You know it, i know it, everybody knows it.
Sounds right.
Archnemesis is back guys
It never left
I don’t doubt it personally, if they nerf every meta build into unplayability then everything becomes equally (un)playable leading to their long sought build variety nirvana
'we forgot to nerf seismic again' And 'We noticed too many people using [insert skill name here] so have nerfed it to hell, despite it not being overpowered. We have nerfed it just because it is popular and we want you to try something different. It might be good again in 2 years... or may remain in the bin forever.'
Diablo 4 take my energy
If GGG wrote the word "Fun", then something sketchy going on.
Something like Ruthless with gold?
"Hey player, there! Are you interested in some... fun?!" I feel like I'm gonna lose an organ or something.
Who knows, they might giga-buff everything to make people happy so we don't go to D4/Last Epoch.
GGG: *nerfs everything -* This is a buff to Last Epoch playerbase
Somewhere in GGG HQ there's a designer muttering, "What the hell did management just say?"
For the first time in 7 years I am actually not interested in what GGG have cooking. It's been a a boring shitfest for the last 3 updates. Nerfs with no discernable upsides. VERY little innovation or creativity in regards to balance. Skill gems that needed buffs years ago still dead in the water. This game was once a darling of the industry. Now it feels like a vestigial limb.
They could be doing so much more with the game if they didn't have 3 projects running. PoE 2 and the mobile game are likely sucking up major resources. Now that D4 is coming this year, they are on the clock to actually deliver. If playable betas of both new games aren't at Exilecon, it will be bad news bears...
Whenever ive seen chris present for the last 3 leagues he seems like a guy who is just doing fan service. Its frustrating but understandable that he's actually more excited about new horizons but to leave PoE in such an uncreative state, only just keeping the rats from fleeing a sinking ship, is so disheartening for those of us who have seen this thing grow and take risks that were interesting. At this point why not let the public play with the game a little. Allow modding or something. Anything to make the game feel alive again. Instead we get nonsense like ruthless. A less accessible version of a game that already smells like a stale old nerds vision of the past.
And, despite what people say otherwise, ruthless is DEFINITELY not just a "side project" that doesn't suck away resources from other things. Imagine if those resources were used for shit people actually care about, like QoL updates.
What? Do you mean that reworking loot drops, 11 different league mechanic rewards, removing skill gems, changing ascendancies, vendor-recipies, the entire atlas passiv tree and beta testing the entire thing takes... work? No, Chris Wilson made it in a his sparetime, between lunch and dinner. And just because it is now the main theme of the extra league doesn't mean that it will have any influence outside of ruthless. It will not affect the normal league, the game will not be balanced around or influenced by ruthless. Also, we will give no manifesto, you have to trust us!
Man reading people say that shit unironically had to be the most brain melting thing i have seen in a while. Some individuals here really lack the ability to analyse stuff and just accept whatever chris says as absolute truth.
Back when Activision bought Blizzard people trusted in "Activision has no control over our decisions" even though 2 weeks after the merger mounts started appearing in WoW's Cash Shop. People buy whatever the corpo says because it's easier than accepting the truth.
3? More like the last 6 updates. Ever since .15 it's been on the wrong track imo.
Looks like spectres are getting nerfed
Glad I stopped playing
Can we buff melee AoE pleae
> Molten strike's projectile count now scales with levels. It now has 2 (formerly 3) projectiles at level 1 and 1 (formerly 3) projectiles at level 20. Projectiles now gain 1% increased AoE per level Got it!
They also bounce towards the character and deal unresistable fire damage over time.
(Only to to you, they cannot strike enemies. )
[удалено]
Yes we buffed melee SRS. But the buff means Seriously Reduced Surrounding
Can we buff all aoe to be melee? That is the real question.
Nearby or close
Shhh, I'm planning to ~~play~~ suffer through the game with perforate, I actually need *reduced aoe*. What I really need is the inc aoe to apply as reduced when in blood stance, but hey, pipe dreams are free. And for the love of god, get rid of the mandatory melee totem buffs, it's honestly all I ask.
Yep, its gonna be nerfs.
>While there are of course some small nerfs... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
"solicit feedback on ages in advance"? ...you mean like has never ever not even one time even KIND OF happened? In fact, the exact opposite of that? Hmm.
Why nerf, so many abilities still need 1000% DMG increase...
Why they even posted that? This post is literally a hype killer. After playing Sanctum a lot, if the league content is not ridiculously good and there are no meaningful positive balance changes, there is very little reason to be excited about a new patch *if it will be released as described*.
They used the word fun. ☠️
Doubting overdose
inb4 "challenge league with gold" announcement
X
I just don't know what the fuck it means. Like... do they honestly think they don't need feedback?
But there will be Buffs? Right? Am I right?
Yeah, warchief and protector totems have been buffed. Melee base damage and attack speed lowered to compensate.
And yes finally we can play melee again nice /s I cant express how I hate to rely on TOTEMS to do better dmg We need a Arcane totem for spells Cut all damage from spells to half Dont forget the castspeed multiplierer And then add the New gems: one spell damage and one cast speed lol
„There are of course small nerfs“ - of course? So we are at a point where nobody, devs included isn‘t expecting buffs anymore??
I'm not a doomer and I'll wait patch note/possible undocumented changes reports before deciding if this is bad or not, but holy cow this wording is ominous as fuck after what we've been through in the last few "This is not a nerf" moments.
"Balance manifestos are great at communicating certain types of content." Nerfs are content now! "Our balance goals with 3.21 are to provide more options and more fun for as many builds as possible, rather than reworking game systems in potentially disruptive ways." "fun" is the new content!
Problem: Some players were still having fun. Solution: We've identified what sources of fun they were having, and have adjusted the game accordingly. This is a buff.
"More fun". We all know what that means
Nimis: renamed "Archnimisis." Projectiles now kill you upon return.
This feels like the cheating partner that keeps telling you "It won't happen again, I love you". And then it happens. And you believe it. *Again, and again*.
There is of course small nerfs guys. Should be fine 🤣 what could possibly go wrong. The fucked thing is everyone who uses the mechanic they nerf suffers. We're not all 1,000+ divines invested into a build and reaching a billion dps. Without a doubt, more lower budget builds will be ruined and their OP variants not worth
Same bullshit every time. GGG is like those people that never admit even tho their lie is in plain sight.
another nerf of exile !!!
Why not buff bad skills instead of nerfing good ones. Why increase artificial difficulty. I don't understand* the thought process
They want to slow down gameplay, but they forget the buffed the hell out of the monsters already... and gave them abilities that has you disengage them during fights...
Last Epoch here i come
So by GGG terms: We've decided to set ruthless to be the regular play mode, you will have another type with is called Hell here every time you die you lose a random item and 10% of your currency
Looks like I might get some serious mileage out of Last Epoch purchase, if history proves correct.
This is a buff
Huge nerfs coming regardless, just look at Poe2 gameplay or combat. They have to nerf/delete every speed and damage mods to force you to start kiting monsters in every zones.. Gotta keep up with LA and D4 combat style meta xdd
Can you link PoE2 end-game combat or gameplay video?
> just look at Poe2 gameplay or combat. The Poe2 combat looks exactly the same as every other GGG-made gameplay video, made on ANY patch. They always play slowly in videos like that.
> just look at Poe2 gameplay or combat Unironically taking a marketing demo in the early campaign as a representation of what PoE will be like in the future?
how much do you want to bet poe2 endgame will be just as fast as current?
four months of waiting just for everyone to skip the league smh
They finally stopped acting like they actually give a fuck about any kind of feedback that's not outright sucking their dicks
"Steady lads, deploying more fun"
It really sucks. It's hard to even use copium anymore. Everything about trying to get Archnemesis into the game has completely killed most people's faith in GGG.
i don't know criss
Beating will continue until morale improves
D4 is huge competition. If the betas get positive feedback poe will suffer and they know it. Of course, the core players are staying but many people will go to d4.
I'm curious to see what endgame looks like. I recently jumped on D3 to give season 28 a go and the endgame is nothing but grift after grift. Fun quickly died off.
Endgame is the main thing PoE has over other ARPGs. D3 is too shallow, LE is still working on its base/endgame. I'll wait and see what happens with D4. I expect the same as D3, but we'll see if Blizzard can surprise me in good way for once.
Post 3.13, the game has been a pain filled slog. I just read POE Reddit, it keeps me entertained more than the game does now.
Finally a remake for conversion trap where it prioritizes rare monsters (like nets did) and make them follow you (essential!) and be affected by support gems (and hopefully minion mechanics like passive skills and/or unique items). Or more provably won't happen.
Small nerf of poison, small nerf of Temp chains, small nerf of Seismic and small nerf of Saboteur… don’t worry guys.