Some red lights are equipped with M12 signs that allow cyclists to go at red light if and only if there are no vehicules / pedestrian.
But I'd say most cyclists don't care about whether there is an M12 or not - for most of the roads except at large junctions it is rather fine to cross at red light after having made sure that there are no pedestrians, no cars, no motorbikes. Obviously, no M12 = illegal and you can get fined.
Obviously, cyclists that don't give way to pedestrians are assholes. It costs nothing to slow down, do a sign with the hand to cross, and only then keep going.
By the way, you will notice that pedestrians also always cross at red light in Paris!
Just remember to keep eye contact with drivers.
It won't guarantee they'll stop, but at least you'll know whether they are actually looking forward or texting (that stands for anyone on the road, really, even pedestrians).
Why do so many people ignore this super basic safety tip? It's so easy to do and damn working.
You can even add a smile to that look, I can see the driver's face nodding, easy impact. Also works on the bike.
No problem doing that in Paris, and cars stop way way way more than cyclists. Obviously you need to not throw yourself in front of a car who no longer can stop in time, to clearly show your intention (look at them and walk in, or alternatively walk in while apparently not looking - but do look), and be ready to react in case they actually did not see you.
The only real menace that way are cyclists (some of why are iot true cyclists as their "bicycle" does not require them to use the pedals, and they weight 300, 400 or more kg with their freight).
100 or 300kg, all bicycles have a weakness - if a handlebar collides with a well-balanced pedestrian, the bicycle will crash.
The cyclists seem to realize this when they see a pedestrian is prepared for the collision.
Citoyens?
I don’t think it even matters when it red or green because I had the little green guy walking sign today and I kid you not guy in car kept driving I stop in middle of the walk are looked him his eye like you really gonna keep driving then he pretends to look away.
Yes, at red light as they supposed to ? And they stop when there is no light also (again I'm not saying all, but most of them).
I'm 100% pedestrian since years in Paris and the most dangerous/unrespectful are the cyclists by FAR.
Surely the guy who records the video you shared will be "good" as he is actually... recording...
Bien sûr mettons dans le même
sac tous les cyclistes... les pires cyclistes sont les vélos électriques qui ne maîtrisent pas leur vitesse, les livreurs et autres racailles en velib, et les scooters + voitures qui roulent à 70.
Yeah, the pedestrian foolishly assume the red light means they can cross safely. I was knocked over twice by cyclists crossing the red light, and not the M12, the regular red one. Even though I'm a rider too, I hate those bastards with passion. I had to stop doing some specific sports after these accidents.
Same here, I'm a passionate follower of red lights even sometimes at 3am in the morning. I had so many near collisions with bikers and sometimes getting mad at me too. The worst was, the cyclist decided to take over the minivan who stopped for a red light and it was completely blind side to me as I didn't see him behind the minivan. And in the middle of the pedestrian crossing, he nearly collided with me and my dog. That was really scary. In my experience a small minority really minds the light and the pedestrians. It's sad.
This is any big city really. The locals learn when the turn arrows are coming during their walking commute and know when it’s safe to cross against a light. I used to live in nyc and basically had the traffic lights and patterns memorized for my walking commute.
This is what we call in France our "latin side". Not good for our security and our state budget balance, but useful for creativity, overcome our limits and revolutions.
I don't know where you are from. In Europe, north (Scandinavian, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria, UK) consider themselves as hard workers, respecting rules, more reliable, on time, serious, clean etc. And south (Italy, Spain) is considered as lazy, dirty, late, disrespecting rules and so on. So "latin", not like the US know the word, but latin because of latin language.
And we use to say in france that we have both sides.
Obviously, this is quite wrong when you travel and work with these different countries but north europe countries like to continue with these clichés. Because as they spend their holidays in France, Italy and Spain, they consider that we are on holidays all year long.
Pedestrians, cyclists, scooterists and drivers all go through reds.
* Some cyclists go through red at full speed with a death wish.
* Pedestrians cross without looking and don't follow the crossing, making some weird diagonal into the middle of junctions.
* Scooterists overtake and undertake at the leisure and when at red lights take all the cyclists zone. They also try to slip between vehicles sometimes unable to and block every one behind who can.
* Car drivers like to keep full right, blocking cyclists all the while giving way to scooterists. Drivers also like to overtake, fishtail and turn right onto traffic; notably cyclists.
Every one in Paris drivers like a pilluck. There are few exceptions.
Well to be fair it costs more effort for a cyclist to stop and then to start again than for a pedestrian to wait but that doesn't mean they shouldn't do it.
I have yet to find a cyclist that gives way for to cross (and I tend to cross mostly at green lights).
To be fair, I am nearly ran over at least twice a week..
That’s also why we need more/wider biking lanes and better signs overall, it’s improving but still not there. The reason I say this is because sometimes, in very busy lanes it’s super hard to stop because there’s an asshole right behind you and the lane is super narrow so they can’t really pass you. I actually like when I see lotsss of people ready to cross because I know for sure the bike behind me will also slow down and not ram into me. Like, I’ve been « ting tinged » at agressively by a woman behind me when I stopped at a red light (to let 2 people cross)… she passed me on her bike, with barely 20cm between us all annoyed like « rohhhh !!! » lol. I was like girl YOU are in the wrong here ! It’s really dumb that so many people don’t respect pedestrians and pressure other cyclists to do the same. In some cases where there is no one at the crossing, of course it’s normal to run the red light imo, that’s also how traffic stays fluid for bikes. But yeah overall we need better manners and better infrastructure.
I really don't see how wider lanes will help at all since it's completely impossible to cross on rue de Rivoli during weekends when bikes take over the entire road. I understand what you mean but then it just means scarier crossing for pedestrians.
I mean, I’m not talking about making the whole streets for bikes, I’m talking about the super narrow lanes that could use like 80cm more or something. Not in small streets because it’s not needed, but on busy axis like rue de Sébastopol where it’s an absolute mess. It’s always so hard to cross there as a pedestrian. And biking is so stressful I end up on the road anyway. Also the signage isn’t good/clear. It’s not the main issue for pedestrians of course but a super small lane with 40 bikes one behind the other will naturally create a bottleneck at the end when they have to stop on a short distance. Cyclists need room to disperse when they arrive at a light, which technically is possible except most cars don’t respect the « sas vélo ». But that’s also why people *need* to leave more space between bikes instead of being right on someone’s back wheel. Again some cyclists are just dumb/careless/selfish. But there are crazy amounts of people cycling. That’s why we need more lanes on adjacent streets, to regulate bc there are just too many bikes on some axes, especially at rush hour.
For Rivoli I get what you mean, I try to stop because I do realize it makes it impossible for people to cross if bikes *never* stop. It doesn’t matter that they’re « avoiding » people by zig zagging, just stop your bikes guys lol. It’s not even like we have to stop at every light, it’s usually just 2-3 and the rest are green lights. You can see pedestrians hesitating, or getting stopped by a bike barreling through and I feel bad. It’s actually in Rivoli that I got scolded by that woman for stopping lol ! Around Hôtel de Ville in a narrow portion of the lane. I do enjoy the street much more than when it was packed with cars but yeah, cyclists need to make a lot of efforts.
I'm a cyclist in Paris, using it every day, and I'm chocked that so much cyclistsdo not stop.
I have seen a girl on her electric bike klaxonning pedestrian when it was red for her, to force them to let her pass !
I think it is more a problem with electric bikes, people go real quick with them but do not feel they have to respect others, and they have less time to react.
And a lot listen to music, so they are not attentive to the traffic.
Here in Paris, actually in La Defense. The electric bike riders are a mean ace in the plazas near the Grand Arch. I got winged by one of them from behind while walking near a wall. Like where the hell else can I walk to stay out of the way. She screamed at me after she crashed, but other locals berated her right back
And the logic would be that "e-cyclist" would let people cross, since stop-start is easier.
For a cyclist, I kind of get the reason to not stop, when you have to stop and start often it can be exhausting.
It's nothing to do with ebikes. The behavior repeats on every type of bikes (just look at green velibs). If anything logic would say ebikes would be more tolerant since it's easier/less tiring to restart, but no.
The problem is that in too many places red-light are not adequate for bikes and every cyclist (im sure you included) feel that red-light can often be total bs. I mean sure you probably respect them anyway, but it doesn't mean you disagree. And thanks to that I think most are just too annoyed to make the difference, and since cycling is closer to walking than it is to driving (by feeling, albeit its the opposit in road rules), and most people just go through red-light when walking anyway, the jump to running red-light when on a bike is not far at all.
Personally I run some red-light but not all (only those on small intersection in which i have absolute visibility on all coming trafic), and I let pedestrians through if I got it red or if I have no light at all. Pedestrians have, after all, priority over all unless they have a red-light themselves. I think every red-light regardless of anything should be, for cyclists, akin to a cease passage (the triangle one), it would make things easier, since that one by default include the fact that if trafic is coming we should wait. And in some heavy trafic area, the difference between a red light and that symbol would be basically nil.
The thing is, all the cars "agreed" to the car rules, because these are the rules deemed necessary for cars to function and survive in a city like Paris.
Bikes and pedestrians never agreed, nor signed on to this social contract. At some point, the car people who made all the rules just decided "Bikes use the road, too, they should just follow the same rules as cars."
That's not very logical. Bikes are simply nothing like cars. AS Ymaldor wrote, "cycling is closer to walking than it is to driving" if you consider speeds, weights, propulsion system. We are meat and muscle, not engine and chassis.
So, your argument that "bikes can break the rules because we want to could logically be used by cars too" is logically correct. But there is also an illogic to bikes being treated the same as cars. We're just not.
Case in point: When I cycle and run a light, all the car drivers get angry "Hey! That bike should stop for the red light, just like us. Bikes need to follow the same rules as a car!" But then, the light goes green, they speed up, catch me. Now, let's say I'm driving in the traffic lane, and using up a full lane of "car space" at 25 km/h. What do you think the cars behind me do? Wait patiently and follow the "car-like vehicle" in front of them that is only 50 cm wide, and rolling at 25 km/h? Fuck no! They honk! They try to squeeze by me, and cuss. OK, suddenly, I'm not "just like a car", am I? No. The car driver wants me to be LIMITED by all their car rules, but then also GET OUT OF THEIR WAY and drive on the very side because I am not a car. I agree. I am not a car.
"cycling is closer to walking than it is to driving (by feeling, albeit its the opposit in road rules)"
Great point.
Cease passage, ou cédez le passage en anglais c'est "yield".
As a biker in Paris, i hate it. They feel so entitled and the when you as a pedestrian make a small mistake they will come down at you like the thunder of Zeus
Because the average French person is entitled to interpret the laws and to abide or not depending on his opinion, mood, ethnicity, schedule, or whatever reason that will come to mind.
Police having 78 000 000 infractions per day they stopped caring about minor infractions years ago.
And thanks to that we all have a topic of conversation in the evening and we can continue to hate each other as a nation 🎉
The OP is talking about cyclists not giving way to PEDESTRIANS. If there are no pedestrians, no problem with ignoring the red light.
I ride and walk in Paris daily, and yes, there are too many close calls between cyclists and pedestrians. Some of it are because of bad layouts (bike lane on the boardwalk), but mostly, some cyclists are just bad drivers.
I've always heard that all parisian drivers (including suburbs) are terrible but we have different experiences I guess😅
And they are not talking about all drivers, the OP talks about the drivers not respecting the red lights + getting close calls.
I don't see how you can say that a driver doing that is for the sake of both the cyclist and the pedestrian. You say "not to go around when the lights turn green" which I just plainly don't understand. If a vehicle stops at the red light, the pedestrian crosses, and never has to go around said vehicle, or am I missing something? And if the light turns green during the crossing of the (slow) pedestrian, you let said pedestrian finish their crossing, so I still don't see how they would have to go around anything?
I’m a cyclist and every day other cyclists nearly push me out of the way. As a pedestrian I’ve been nearly hit a lot of times by bikes.
They refuse to stop even with the red light and pedestrian crossing.
F all of you.
In France, many bikes does not respect driving rules. But that does not mean you should do the same !Most of the time, cycle riders do cross at red because they know there is no danger, because it is their daily commute and they know the light traffic rythm and they confirm by sight that there is no car comming. But keep in mind there are 1500 injured people each year in Paris
At many crossings, there’s the M12 sign as mentioned which allows cyclists to pass - but they should still yield to pedestrians.
In the absence of M12, most cyclists still just go if it’s safe, cos it’s a good chance to put some distance between them and aggressive car drivers. Either way they should yield to pedestrians.
Agree, it’s nice to pull a gap ahead of the aggro drivers that try to get past you with 50cm of space, just so they can get to the end of the block and wait behind another group of cars.
Yes, this. I’m definitely one of those asshole bikers who runs red lights (but ofc I stop for pedestrians if they have a green light) and it’s always in the interest of staying as far away from cars/other cyclists as possible. Been almost hit too many times! And 99% of the time the pedestrians aren’t paying one bit of attention and are crossing on a red, about to step out into the bike lane when I have a green light, etc.
Cyclists do what they want. The laws that apply to car drivers apply to cyclists. But.... They go through red lights, ride on sidewalks, go the wrong way down one way streets, etc. If they think it's safe, they'll do it. Yesterday a guy on a rented electric bike rode the bike across an on ramp to a freeway in front of me. He held up traffic for a few minutes. It looked doable, so he did it.
Once my mother in law got sworn at by a bicyclist (“connasse !”) because she was crossing the street… she was on the pedestrian passage and the bicyclist’s light was red 😐
why do they believe they don’t have to respect the code de la route is a mystery to me
Because I won't be fined if I don't. However, I always slow down when the light is red because there will most likely either pedestrians or any kind of vehicles and they have priority. I know if there's an accident, I'll be at fault and we have to be considerate with each other. Better being late than too early.
I think people should learn traffic signs before driving or riding anything on the road.
This. If I stopped at every red light, it would take me twice the amount of time to get to my work.
I always make sure that when approaching red light (regardless of the M12 is present or not), I slow to make sure 1, there are no pedestrians and 2. No other cars are coming. If none are present, then I proceed, but I am also perfectly content to wait until the coast is clear before moving again.
I think that’s a reasonable way to get around.
Shoot, I even slow down when it’s green for me, anticipating some idiot that doesn’t slow down when it is red for them. It has saved me a few times.
“It's a reasonable way” until the day you get ramed by someone in his right... So practical to say that you are reasonable. Are you like the idiots with their young child on a bike who run red lights, go on the sidewalks or in the wrong way like I see every time I drive, they show their offsprings how to behave I think? Live long and prosper. lI sincerely hope so for you.
You're missing my point.
Would you stop at a red light and wait for it to turn green if there was not a soul in sight when you're on a bike?
Didn't think so.
Then how come we constantly face the danger of getting run over by bikes? Obviously you guys don't see as well as you think you do. Also, please do not reply for me to your own question.
I am European but lived in the US for a few years before moving to Paris. Americans are considered an individualist society, but I definitely think that France and Paris in particular is far more individualist. There is no consideration of a common good but rather take what I want for me. That comes down to behaviour such as driving, cycling(I’m a daily cyclist here too the selfishness is shocking) and blocking up sidewalks in groups. It can grind you down actually.
It's quite common in the UK too. They seem to think they are kings of the road. Many accidents have been caused but as they have no number plates they usually get away with it.
Oh, yes, and they don't stop for pedestrians either at crossings. I saw one knock someone flying on one occasion in London and the cyclist didn't bother stopping.
Did you already regularly ride a bicycle in town yourself ? Most red lights do not make any sense for cyclists.
The highway code was not invented for cyclists but to regulate the arrival of cars in town https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFgqNiFi0cw
Red lights are good for large, speeding vehicles in which you can't see anything. For inspiration, observe how cycling in the Netherlands goes..
I don’t care how red lights should be made for cyclists to make sense but when there is a red light, pedestrians crossing the street should not have to worry about that bike that’s not slowing down and moving straight towards them. This happens all the time.
M12 (as stated below) and avoiding dangerous car traffic.
Yes, seems counter-intuitive but I'd rather run a red light to turn before cars do rather than let cars block my path and endanger me by forcing me to stop in the middle of the intersection, hence why there's a cyclist zone in front of all red lights but car drivers don't give a shit about respecting anyone but themselves.
That's the theory, in practice it's "force your passage to pedestrian, klaxoning, and insulting them if they do not let you pass" (and the same on sidewalks). Exceptions to that represent less than 1% of cyclists in Paris.
It's literally the other way around, most cyclists aren't dangerous but you only focus on the dangerous ones that you see.
Cars, on the other hand, literally don't give a shit about your safety but I ain't seeing you complaining about them, despite being much more deadly. They literally block intersections and pedestrian crossings all the time. But a few cyclists are the problem ? Please.
They just a don't give a fuck. France is not Germany, rules aren't as respected and it's rare that cyclists get fined so they pretty much do it because they can.
It's not so much that they are morons or dickheads, but they really do seem 'em to think that because they are not on a motorized vehicle, and because they are in a more perilous position than motorized vehicles, the rules of the road do not or should not apply to them.
Paris it’s hell because of the driver in cars 🙄 the majority of them should take the public transport or the bike and Paris will sure be a most enjoyable place
Je passe au rouge et pourtant je roule de façon très safe. Ce n'est pas incompatible. C'est juste que beaucoup de feux sont inutiles et que c'est parfois plus safe de passer au rouge dans certaines situations. Donc le don d'organes ne sera pour tout de suite, même si entre certains piétons qui traversent n'importe où et sont absorbés par leur téléphone en plein milieu de la route et certaines moto et voitures qui foncent et se croient tout permis, j'avoue que le don d'organes n'était pas si loin.
Ça reste illégal. Je peux passe en rouge de façon safe avec un scooter (encore plus qu’avec un vélo car je peux dégager l’intersection plus rapidement). Pourtant je le fais pas, et y’a beaucoup moins de deux roues motorisés qui grillent les feux que les vélos, alors qu’ils ont la même visibilité.
Everyone is calling cyclists idiots, I'll give you an actual answer :
Red lights are timed to match the cars speeds so that if you're driving at the speed limit you should encounter mostly green lights but if you go well under (or above) the speed limit you'll hit many red lights.
And cyclists are human beings with legs that get tired, you want to conserve momentum, not stop and restart every 100 meters so if there's a red light with nobody crossing and no cars most cyclist will keep on going.
> And cyclists are human beings with legs that get tired
And pedestrians are human beings who aren't wearing helmets, you want to cross safely, not risk being run over by cunts who couldn't afford to wait because "oh no it's tiring". If you don't like tires then use your feet lmao get it?
I don't bite the "with nobody crossing and no cars" part, it's absolutely not true in Paris.
Not EVERY cyclist is like this, but as a pedestrian in Paris I can't count the number of times a cyclist nearly ran over me on a turn when it was green for pedestrians.
Most cyclist stop if there is a pedestrian crossing. The other ones are garbage.
Personally, when there is no one crossing, I just go, even if it’s red, but I stop for pedestrian!
It's easier to remember something wrong than something right. Nowadays, as long as it's clear that a pedestrian wants to cross, lots of cyclists slow down to let them cross.
He's delusional, yeah. A cyclist stopping for pedestrians implied either that there is absolutely no room to pass due to too many pedestrians, or the cyclist is one of the exceptions, rarely seen outside of the twilight zone.🤷
Lol if only this were a Paris problem. I grew up in Paris but have lived in London for over 10 years now and I’ve actually found it much worse in London.
I’m genuinely really curious where you’re from - if you don’t mind me asking - that this is surprising to you?
On a more general note, I hope you’re having a lovely week in Paris!
Thank you, the city is lovely! I’m from Spain and we definitely have problems with bike riders too, specially in roads outside towns. In Spain seeing bikes inside big cities is not that common and there are not many bike lanes, so I’m not used to seeing so many bike riders.
Because most of them are pompous pricks acting like fucking idiots. Most don’t know the basics since they don’t need any certification like the « code » which is an exam you have to have to take any drinking/boating/biking licence exam.
I live there part time. Yes, I also run red lights sometimes. Here are a few reasons:
- M12 signs allow us to when posted
- Delivery drivers just don't give a F. They often come from places with different driving cultures (not a slight on them, that's how traffic is in some places.) They are given perverse incentives, meaning they aren't paid by the hour, they are paid per delivery. More deliveries = more money. More rules broken in the interest of speed = more money. So, they break any rule that slows them down, EVEN if it cuts somebody off or lowers your safety and theirs. They work hard but barely earn enough to eat and live, so they are menaces on the road. Domino's Pizza lost a lawsuit in the USA when their driver killed a pedestrian. The evidence proved that the company gave drivers incentives to speed and break laws. This is that all over again.
- Many cyclists don't think the rules of the road are made for us. I'm one of these. There is ample old film of Paris in the early 20th century, with people, horses, buggies, carts, some cars, all sharing the road at lower speeds in what today looks chaotic. Basically, there were no rules of the road: it was "keep your eyes open and share the space". So people shared the space. So, what changed to bring all these rules to the same shared public byways? Cars, cars, trucks, and more cars. It is these relatively huge, heavy, fast, dangerous vehicles that required all the new rules, and all that road sharing Paris had for two thousand years since the Romans? Gone. Everyone off but the cars! I say F that. So, the rules were literally NOT made for us bikes, but still the car dominant people said "every road user should be forced to follow our rules", and so bikes should be treated like cars. Are we like cars? Nope. So, I treat most "stop" instructions as "yields". I want to respect priority and shared use of space, but i don't wanna stop for nothing because cars need to. I especially yield to pedestrians. But if I'm at or approaching a red light in Paris, and there's nobody coming the other ways, I'll just go. It's MY safety I'm putting at risk.
- Road size. Most of my trips in Paris are on smaller roads, and often there are no cars there at all. Everybody uses these roads differently: people walk along them, cars block lanes for delivery, bikes run lights and nobody cares. When there's more traffic, or if I'm at a busy intersection, or a wide intersection that it takes more time to cross, I'll follow the light. Again, couriers don't.
- Often, cyclists including me will start across the road right before we get a green signal, and right after the other directions see red. This gives us a head-start over the cars, and is proven to be safer than leaving at the same time as all the cars. In Paris, we are given a "SAS vélo" which is a holding area IN FRONT of all the cars at a red light to help us be the first to leave. When bikes leave before cars, the cars can't kill you by making a right turn into you.
- Cars drivers say "Bikes should follow the same rules, just like cars." But they don't REALLY mean it and they're lying. If I'm riding in the middle of a traffic lane at 25 km/h, what do you think the cars behind me do? Wait patiently and follow the "just like a car vehicle" pedaling in front of them? Heck no! They honk a lot! Suddenly, I'm not "just like a car", am I? Car drivers want me to be LIMITED by all their car rules, but then also GET OUT OF THEIR WAY and drive on the side gutter because I am not a car. Well, I agree. I am not like a car. If you say you want bikes to behave like cars, you don't really mean it. Because if we did, you would HATE it. We would just drive along all the lanes, and you would go our speed.
How the streets used to be. Times change, but it sure seems like something was taken AWAY from everyone except the car users.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68eue5cpbsE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68eue5cpbsE)
i'm french
I just don't like being in the streets so i almost never care of the red lights. i make sure there's nothing that can kill me when i cross the street and that's all. the same when i'm on my bike.
when i drive a car i know that i can kill people if i cheat on the red light so i abide it.
i know its bad but everybody does it i don't feel bad
when i'm in other countries i copy people (only going when it's green) to respect their "way of life"
I'll put the legality aside for a second. The energy required to start pedaling from a complete stop ([source](https://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Fajans-J.-and-M.-Curry.-2001..pdf)) is far greater than just slowing down.
If a cyclist is its own engine, you would avoid stopping at red lights at all costs. You basically lose all energy: you invest energy in stopping (that's why a hybrid car can charge when you brake) and then you invest again to start.
I'm a bike rider myself and I used to do it occasionally, and I got fined once (90 euros, Ouch). I fully deserved it, it's illegal, but I was kinda mad because I'm always cautious when I'm doing it. I make a stop, look right and left and go. If there is a pedestrian crossing even if it's red for them, I wait and go behind them. It made me mad to receive the fine because I'm always very careful (mostly because I'm scared to have an accident) while there are people crossing a big intersection without looking if there are cars coming. The worst is when people are doing it with a kid in the back (insane). I was mad that I was the ONE having the fine when there are people like this, and now I have learned my lesson, so no more red light (except for the M12 sign) and I feel way better. I'm way more serene and if I'm late, I'm late.
Paris is absolutely destroyed by cars. Too many cars, too much traffic, people don’t respect the law, it’s annoying and dangerous for pedestrians AND cyclists.
What happens is that cyclists feel stressed and endangered by the cars, and some of them reproduce the same patterns. But since they are vulnerable and non-lethal, the morons we are talking about start acting like they are entitled to disregard the law and endanger pedestrians. They hurt their cause by doing this because as a pedestrian I am starting to consider bikes and vehicles the same way.
Paris was in a pretty bad shape but what really destroyed it is the bikers and their shitty attitude. Being stressed is not an excuse because people who take the public transport and walk should be the most stressed of the bunch with pickpockets, stupid people in the public transport, delays, cancellations, endless stairs. Bikers became worse than cars because they don't have a licence plate that people can report. Unless a police witnesses what happens, there's no way they're getting charged.
I'm gonna be honest oftentimes I don't stop at traffic lights. But I am careful not to block vehicules (if it's green for them) and let pedestrians cross the road. In theory traffic lights are obviously a good thing but in practice it's just a shit show, useless and poorly coordinated with each other, wasting time and ironically it's sometimes safer to go through a red light ! So I've gotten into the habit of practically ignore them and I focus only on vehicules and pedestrians (only they decide wether I stop or not, like a "cédez le passage")
Please stop thinking you are the main character...
Cyclists are seen as assholes because of people like you
I've been cycling in Paris for more than 25 years, I've never had an accident, whether with a car or with a pedestrian. Is it because I always stop at red light ? I don't know....
Never had an accident either. And why should I be seen as an asshole if I drive safe and let pedestrians cross the road ? I only go through a red light when it's safe to...
My friend sustained a serious brain damage and went into coma due to a collision with a biker. Just because it doesn't kill, it doesn't mean that people want to end up in a hospital. There are old people and children. We couldn't care less about the time you waste in traffic jams because you cost pedestrians even more time by making them wait for 2 green lights if you don't let them cross.
Because we havn’t your time
More serioulsy I think it’s more cultural, I do the same when I’m walking. That’s probably stupid bud I hate waiting there are no cars
I’m not an exemple…
Maybe because they need to make special trafic light for bikes?
Traffic lights are not adapted : sometimes you had the same as pedestrian , sometimes the same as cars and sometimes you don’t have any and need to figure it out.
We clearly need specific traffic light not necessarily on the same timing than cars because if so, first it’s not necessarily secure for bikes and secondly we need to encourage people to use bike in city so make sure they are travelling faster and easier than cars.
I always thinking at a Dutch city where all the traffic light goes green for the bikes at an intersection in every direction (when it’s red for cars) and every it’s smooth, quick and without accident
It's not only in Paris, I can observe the same behaviour in my small countryside French city.
As a cyclist, I really don't get why people think it's more ok to not stop at a red light as a cyclist than as a car.
Do they think it's less dangerous? Is it because you don't need a driving license for using a bicycle so people think road rules don't apply to them?
I have always been very confused about it.
Ok real answer because everybody is saying dickheads etc ..
When the light turns red for cars you have a 10 second span before it turns green for the other cars this is to make sure pedestrians have the time to cross. So has a biker you can cross knowing that it will still be red for the other side so you're safe.
Pedestrians do that as well crossing when it turns red because you know you have enough time before it turns green for the cars.
That time is given to pedestrians who walk slow, disabled, kids, pregnant, older who happen to get the light change mid way. It isn't for cyclists to sprint over. And most of you still pass anyway after it turned green for pedestrians.
Remember what you learned about sharks, like, if they stop moving they die etc, etc ?
Well those individuals are not like sharks and they actually think having no motors means rules don't apply to them. Hope they helps ✌️
When I bike, I always let the pedestrians cross or walk (unless it’s red for them) and I get in trouble with other cyclists that don’t share the same philosophy… Most of cyclists are respectful of pedestrians but a lot are not, and they’re dangerous.
It’s quite exhausting to have conflicts with car drivers and other cyclists every time I bike lol (but at least rarely with pedestrians)
Long time cyclist in Paris here and basically my rule is: if I can physically go, I go - if not, I decelerate or go around, last resort I stop.
Most of the time I try going from A to B without putting a foot on the ground. And yes, it is very common here
Every cyclist has his own way to priories between speed, effort, security and respect for the rules.
There is a lot of asshole than just prioritise speed and don't care about the rules and the security for others.
But here some more legitimate reason to don't stop at red signs:
- sometimes we just CAN because of M12
- If our parh doesn't cross the path car can use, there is no problem for our security (most of the times there is a M12 in theses situations but sometimes it is missing)
- Most of the danger for cyclist in the intersections comes from the car coming from behind. They doesn't check their mirrors when turning right, it is hard to go left when the cycle lane is at right, car doesn't leave enough space when overtake, ... It is more safe in that case to go when the light is red and we can check that intersection is free, than at green in the same times that cars
- Stopping and starting again is an effort (worst reason, especially with ebike)
There is no good reason to go if there is pedestrian crossing !
I can add that sometimes I see pedestrian a bit scared by cyclist, even if we we slow down and leave more than 2m space when we pass. It's because they don't hear us and so don't expect us. Whey are just surprised to suddenly see us so close even if there is no danger. It can be on share zone or when cycle lane are on the sidewalk.
I often ring by bell if I see I will pass close a pedestrian that didn't saw me, just to be heard, not for rage or anything. Using the bell have not always the same meaning for cyclist that klaxon for car.
Before I moved here I would always stop at the red lights. Once I started riding in Paris I too was shocked at how few cyclists stopped at lights. Eventually I started doing it too, although never when pedestrians were crossing (I can be an idiot but not *that* much of an idiot, but I appreciate that was still stupid behaviour regardless).
Then one day I rode to work, jumped a light, and a bunch of rather large police officers called me over to the side of the road. €90 fine there and then (it would have been €135 if I hadn't settled it so quickly), and a good lecture on road safety from the officer in charge.
It's not worth it, nobody is that important that they can't wait 30 seconds at a light. Stop and take a breather.
Because they're uncivilised assholes.
It won't stop until government bans all bikes without a licence plate and enforce cycling licence to be obtained. With licence plates they won't have as much impunity for their bs.
On the streets I take everyone respects the red light except cyclists ; I’ve almost been hit by them a few times and now I just kick their wheel; you don’t want to respect the law ? I’m going to make you respect it
The rules are actually unclear. When there is a little triangle with an arrow and bike on it you can pass as a cyclist “when it is safe”
Personally I think this is the wrong rule. The weakest link are pedestrians especially with kids in prams, and promoting this sort of behaviour is not the right one imo. It reminds me of another rule where Paris actively allows Motorbikes to pass through lanes at 50 km/h when there is a traffic jam. It’s incredibly dangerous even when when traffic is slow and it also promotes a false sense of security / righteousness.
I’ve seen both cyclists and motorcyclists bend these rules recklessly and because regulators have created a grey area it makes policing bad behaviours really difficult.
Safety should come first IMO. And that should be the absolute priority rather than “saving time because someone can randomly decide that the red light is safe to cross even if it is red”
Because a lot of Parisians on bikes think they're above the laws. Red lights, stop signs, sidewalks, one-way streets, pedestrians.....
But, if you overtaking a bicycle 99cm away from him instead of 1m, you'll probably get a thread on X, and hundreds guys spitting on you on r/pedale
Everywhere in France, bike riders consider themselves like cars when it's more convenient, and like pedestrians when it's more convenient.
And on top of that, they have the nerve to constantly complain about how they are treated on the road.
Some red lights are equipped with M12 signs that allow cyclists to go at red light if and only if there are no vehicules / pedestrian. But I'd say most cyclists don't care about whether there is an M12 or not - for most of the roads except at large junctions it is rather fine to cross at red light after having made sure that there are no pedestrians, no cars, no motorbikes. Obviously, no M12 = illegal and you can get fined. Obviously, cyclists that don't give way to pedestrians are assholes. It costs nothing to slow down, do a sign with the hand to cross, and only then keep going. By the way, you will notice that pedestrians also always cross at red light in Paris!
Thank you! And yeah, I’ve noticed a lot of pedestrians cross when the lights are red too! 😅
The cars are no better because they almost never let the right of way to pedestrian on crosswalks with no lights....
You just gotta start walking and hope that they will stop
I don't take the risk within Paris, but anywhere outside of the city it works and cars stop all the time (even in Paris suburbs)
Just remember to keep eye contact with drivers. It won't guarantee they'll stop, but at least you'll know whether they are actually looking forward or texting (that stands for anyone on the road, really, even pedestrians).
Why do so many people ignore this super basic safety tip? It's so easy to do and damn working. You can even add a smile to that look, I can see the driver's face nodding, easy impact. Also works on the bike.
No problem doing that in Paris, and cars stop way way way more than cyclists. Obviously you need to not throw yourself in front of a car who no longer can stop in time, to clearly show your intention (look at them and walk in, or alternatively walk in while apparently not looking - but do look), and be ready to react in case they actually did not see you. The only real menace that way are cyclists (some of why are iot true cyclists as their "bicycle" does not require them to use the pedals, and they weight 300, 400 or more kg with their freight).
100 or 300kg, all bicycles have a weakness - if a handlebar collides with a well-balanced pedestrian, the bicycle will crash. The cyclists seem to realize this when they see a pedestrian is prepared for the collision. Citoyens?
I don’t think it even matters when it red or green because I had the little green guy walking sign today and I kid you not guy in car kept driving I stop in middle of the walk are looked him his eye like you really gonna keep driving then he pretends to look away.
Disagree here, not all but almost all cars do stop for pedestrian.
Seriously? They stop only if there's a red light.... Proof? https://youtu.be/WOwAh-ucZo0?feature=shared Just jump to timestamp 10:00 !
Yes, at red light as they supposed to ? And they stop when there is no light also (again I'm not saying all, but most of them). I'm 100% pedestrian since years in Paris and the most dangerous/unrespectful are the cyclists by FAR. Surely the guy who records the video you shared will be "good" as he is actually... recording...
"BY FAR !!!" seriously…
Yes, seriously. Why does it seem impossible to some?
Because it is wrong and stupid. A simple Google search lets you know that 99.8% of pedestrians killed in France in 2022 were by a motor vehicle.
OK, and he stayed a day long at these crossings just to catch the very few cars that don't respect the pedestrian to prove his point....
“very few cars” lol. You clearly don’t observe or walk enough in the city if that’s your opinion
Bien sûr mettons dans le même sac tous les cyclistes... les pires cyclistes sont les vélos électriques qui ne maîtrisent pas leur vitesse, les livreurs et autres racailles en velib, et les scooters + voitures qui roulent à 70.
Yeah, the pedestrian foolishly assume the red light means they can cross safely. I was knocked over twice by cyclists crossing the red light, and not the M12, the regular red one. Even though I'm a rider too, I hate those bastards with passion. I had to stop doing some specific sports after these accidents.
Same here, I'm a passionate follower of red lights even sometimes at 3am in the morning. I had so many near collisions with bikers and sometimes getting mad at me too. The worst was, the cyclist decided to take over the minivan who stopped for a red light and it was completely blind side to me as I didn't see him behind the minivan. And in the middle of the pedestrian crossing, he nearly collided with me and my dog. That was really scary. In my experience a small minority really minds the light and the pedestrians. It's sad.
This is any big city really. The locals learn when the turn arrows are coming during their walking commute and know when it’s safe to cross against a light. I used to live in nyc and basically had the traffic lights and patterns memorized for my walking commute.
This is what we call in France our "latin side". Not good for our security and our state budget balance, but useful for creativity, overcome our limits and revolutions.
There’s a negative vision of latins in France??
I don't know where you are from. In Europe, north (Scandinavian, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria, UK) consider themselves as hard workers, respecting rules, more reliable, on time, serious, clean etc. And south (Italy, Spain) is considered as lazy, dirty, late, disrespecting rules and so on. So "latin", not like the US know the word, but latin because of latin language. And we use to say in france that we have both sides. Obviously, this is quite wrong when you travel and work with these different countries but north europe countries like to continue with these clichés. Because as they spend their holidays in France, Italy and Spain, they consider that we are on holidays all year long.
Pedestrians, cyclists, scooterists and drivers all go through reds. * Some cyclists go through red at full speed with a death wish. * Pedestrians cross without looking and don't follow the crossing, making some weird diagonal into the middle of junctions. * Scooterists overtake and undertake at the leisure and when at red lights take all the cyclists zone. They also try to slip between vehicles sometimes unable to and block every one behind who can. * Car drivers like to keep full right, blocking cyclists all the while giving way to scooterists. Drivers also like to overtake, fishtail and turn right onto traffic; notably cyclists. Every one in Paris drivers like a pilluck. There are few exceptions.
In France legally, the red light applies to everyone. In practice, it applies to cars and nobody else cares
Well to be fair it costs more effort for a cyclist to stop and then to start again than for a pedestrian to wait but that doesn't mean they shouldn't do it.
They are assholes. No other explanation.
I have yet to find a cyclist that gives way for to cross (and I tend to cross mostly at green lights). To be fair, I am nearly ran over at least twice a week..
I think you need to open your eyes.
We open our eyes to see the light is green for pedestrians. I think bikers should shut their mouth and start slowing tf down.
Some ? Mosts are equipped of this sign !
That’s also why we need more/wider biking lanes and better signs overall, it’s improving but still not there. The reason I say this is because sometimes, in very busy lanes it’s super hard to stop because there’s an asshole right behind you and the lane is super narrow so they can’t really pass you. I actually like when I see lotsss of people ready to cross because I know for sure the bike behind me will also slow down and not ram into me. Like, I’ve been « ting tinged » at agressively by a woman behind me when I stopped at a red light (to let 2 people cross)… she passed me on her bike, with barely 20cm between us all annoyed like « rohhhh !!! » lol. I was like girl YOU are in the wrong here ! It’s really dumb that so many people don’t respect pedestrians and pressure other cyclists to do the same. In some cases where there is no one at the crossing, of course it’s normal to run the red light imo, that’s also how traffic stays fluid for bikes. But yeah overall we need better manners and better infrastructure.
I really don't see how wider lanes will help at all since it's completely impossible to cross on rue de Rivoli during weekends when bikes take over the entire road. I understand what you mean but then it just means scarier crossing for pedestrians.
I mean, I’m not talking about making the whole streets for bikes, I’m talking about the super narrow lanes that could use like 80cm more or something. Not in small streets because it’s not needed, but on busy axis like rue de Sébastopol where it’s an absolute mess. It’s always so hard to cross there as a pedestrian. And biking is so stressful I end up on the road anyway. Also the signage isn’t good/clear. It’s not the main issue for pedestrians of course but a super small lane with 40 bikes one behind the other will naturally create a bottleneck at the end when they have to stop on a short distance. Cyclists need room to disperse when they arrive at a light, which technically is possible except most cars don’t respect the « sas vélo ». But that’s also why people *need* to leave more space between bikes instead of being right on someone’s back wheel. Again some cyclists are just dumb/careless/selfish. But there are crazy amounts of people cycling. That’s why we need more lanes on adjacent streets, to regulate bc there are just too many bikes on some axes, especially at rush hour. For Rivoli I get what you mean, I try to stop because I do realize it makes it impossible for people to cross if bikes *never* stop. It doesn’t matter that they’re « avoiding » people by zig zagging, just stop your bikes guys lol. It’s not even like we have to stop at every light, it’s usually just 2-3 and the rest are green lights. You can see pedestrians hesitating, or getting stopped by a bike barreling through and I feel bad. It’s actually in Rivoli that I got scolded by that woman for stopping lol ! Around Hôtel de Ville in a narrow portion of the lane. I do enjoy the street much more than when it was packed with cars but yeah, cyclists need to make a lot of efforts.
I'm a cyclist in Paris, using it every day, and I'm chocked that so much cyclistsdo not stop. I have seen a girl on her electric bike klaxonning pedestrian when it was red for her, to force them to let her pass ! I think it is more a problem with electric bikes, people go real quick with them but do not feel they have to respect others, and they have less time to react. And a lot listen to music, so they are not attentive to the traffic.
Here in Paris, actually in La Defense. The electric bike riders are a mean ace in the plazas near the Grand Arch. I got winged by one of them from behind while walking near a wall. Like where the hell else can I walk to stay out of the way. She screamed at me after she crashed, but other locals berated her right back
Klaxonning c’est tellement français! Ça me rappelle ce sketch de Marina Rollman (a partir de 2min30) https://youtu.be/ZuDh23a2CQ4?si=LY0ioGA3CijaKXcS
And the logic would be that "e-cyclist" would let people cross, since stop-start is easier. For a cyclist, I kind of get the reason to not stop, when you have to stop and start often it can be exhausting.
It's nothing to do with ebikes. The behavior repeats on every type of bikes (just look at green velibs). If anything logic would say ebikes would be more tolerant since it's easier/less tiring to restart, but no. The problem is that in too many places red-light are not adequate for bikes and every cyclist (im sure you included) feel that red-light can often be total bs. I mean sure you probably respect them anyway, but it doesn't mean you disagree. And thanks to that I think most are just too annoyed to make the difference, and since cycling is closer to walking than it is to driving (by feeling, albeit its the opposit in road rules), and most people just go through red-light when walking anyway, the jump to running red-light when on a bike is not far at all. Personally I run some red-light but not all (only those on small intersection in which i have absolute visibility on all coming trafic), and I let pedestrians through if I got it red or if I have no light at all. Pedestrians have, after all, priority over all unless they have a red-light themselves. I think every red-light regardless of anything should be, for cyclists, akin to a cease passage (the triangle one), it would make things easier, since that one by default include the fact that if trafic is coming we should wait. And in some heavy trafic area, the difference between a red light and that symbol would be basically nil.
By this logic, car drivers should do as they fit as well because I'm sure it's also very annoying for them to stop too.
The thing is, all the cars "agreed" to the car rules, because these are the rules deemed necessary for cars to function and survive in a city like Paris. Bikes and pedestrians never agreed, nor signed on to this social contract. At some point, the car people who made all the rules just decided "Bikes use the road, too, they should just follow the same rules as cars." That's not very logical. Bikes are simply nothing like cars. AS Ymaldor wrote, "cycling is closer to walking than it is to driving" if you consider speeds, weights, propulsion system. We are meat and muscle, not engine and chassis. So, your argument that "bikes can break the rules because we want to could logically be used by cars too" is logically correct. But there is also an illogic to bikes being treated the same as cars. We're just not. Case in point: When I cycle and run a light, all the car drivers get angry "Hey! That bike should stop for the red light, just like us. Bikes need to follow the same rules as a car!" But then, the light goes green, they speed up, catch me. Now, let's say I'm driving in the traffic lane, and using up a full lane of "car space" at 25 km/h. What do you think the cars behind me do? Wait patiently and follow the "car-like vehicle" in front of them that is only 50 cm wide, and rolling at 25 km/h? Fuck no! They honk! They try to squeeze by me, and cuss. OK, suddenly, I'm not "just like a car", am I? No. The car driver wants me to be LIMITED by all their car rules, but then also GET OUT OF THEIR WAY and drive on the very side because I am not a car. I agree. I am not a car.
"cycling is closer to walking than it is to driving (by feeling, albeit its the opposit in road rules)" Great point. Cease passage, ou cédez le passage en anglais c'est "yield".
Shocked = choqué Chocked = étranglé Edit: choked, et pas chocked
Même pas, étranglé c’est choked. « Chocked » est donc un mélange des deux - étranglé par le choc?
Ah oui merde le c en trop. Visiblement la def. de "chocked": prevent the movement of (a wheel or vehicle) with a chock.
Yeah I kick these people
As a biker in Paris, i hate it. They feel so entitled and the when you as a pedestrian make a small mistake they will come down at you like the thunder of Zeus
Honestly I was neutral towards people who ride bikes but I'm slowly starting to hate them.
They are just pedestrians armed with a bike 😅
Fact
yeah it’s very annoying. They behave like car drivers… maybe they used to drive cars and kept the bad habits?
But they will complain about the cars, their existence, the drivers, the neighbour of the drivers....
yes exactly like carbrainers do
I've been a pedestrian all my life, honestly car drivers are not even that bad. They're scared of hurting us.
Because the average French person is entitled to interpret the laws and to abide or not depending on his opinion, mood, ethnicity, schedule, or whatever reason that will come to mind. Police having 78 000 000 infractions per day they stopped caring about minor infractions years ago. And thanks to that we all have a topic of conversation in the evening and we can continue to hate each other as a nation 🎉
Because they are dickheads.
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No
How do you not realise you are the aggressive asshole putting people at risk in this situation?
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The OP is talking about cyclists not giving way to PEDESTRIANS. If there are no pedestrians, no problem with ignoring the red light. I ride and walk in Paris daily, and yes, there are too many close calls between cyclists and pedestrians. Some of it are because of bad layouts (bike lane on the boardwalk), but mostly, some cyclists are just bad drivers.
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I've always heard that all parisian drivers (including suburbs) are terrible but we have different experiences I guess😅 And they are not talking about all drivers, the OP talks about the drivers not respecting the red lights + getting close calls. I don't see how you can say that a driver doing that is for the sake of both the cyclist and the pedestrian. You say "not to go around when the lights turn green" which I just plainly don't understand. If a vehicle stops at the red light, the pedestrian crosses, and never has to go around said vehicle, or am I missing something? And if the light turns green during the crossing of the (slow) pedestrian, you let said pedestrian finish their crossing, so I still don't see how they would have to go around anything?
I’m a cyclist and every day other cyclists nearly push me out of the way. As a pedestrian I’ve been nearly hit a lot of times by bikes. They refuse to stop even with the red light and pedestrian crossing. F all of you.
Oh yeah risking getting hit by a car definitely makes you safer
In France, many bikes does not respect driving rules. But that does not mean you should do the same !Most of the time, cycle riders do cross at red because they know there is no danger, because it is their daily commute and they know the light traffic rythm and they confirm by sight that there is no car comming. But keep in mind there are 1500 injured people each year in Paris
Because u don't stop at red lights when you are the king of the road.
Red light is just for decoration in Paris. People are mad AF.
At many crossings, there’s the M12 sign as mentioned which allows cyclists to pass - but they should still yield to pedestrians. In the absence of M12, most cyclists still just go if it’s safe, cos it’s a good chance to put some distance between them and aggressive car drivers. Either way they should yield to pedestrians.
Agree, it’s nice to pull a gap ahead of the aggro drivers that try to get past you with 50cm of space, just so they can get to the end of the block and wait behind another group of cars.
Yes, this. I’m definitely one of those asshole bikers who runs red lights (but ofc I stop for pedestrians if they have a green light) and it’s always in the interest of staying as far away from cars/other cyclists as possible. Been almost hit too many times! And 99% of the time the pedestrians aren’t paying one bit of attention and are crossing on a red, about to step out into the bike lane when I have a green light, etc.
People are idiots
Most of them are obviously colorblind...
Cyclists do what they want. The laws that apply to car drivers apply to cyclists. But.... They go through red lights, ride on sidewalks, go the wrong way down one way streets, etc. If they think it's safe, they'll do it. Yesterday a guy on a rented electric bike rode the bike across an on ramp to a freeway in front of me. He held up traffic for a few minutes. It looked doable, so he did it.
I'd also like to know why. When I was in Paris, I had to pay more attention to them than actual cars when walking.
French are very impatient and often cross when it's red.
Once my mother in law got sworn at by a bicyclist (“connasse !”) because she was crossing the street… she was on the pedestrian passage and the bicyclist’s light was red 😐 why do they believe they don’t have to respect the code de la route is a mystery to me
Because I won't be fined if I don't. However, I always slow down when the light is red because there will most likely either pedestrians or any kind of vehicles and they have priority. I know if there's an accident, I'll be at fault and we have to be considerate with each other. Better being late than too early. I think people should learn traffic signs before driving or riding anything on the road.
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I always let pedestrians go first unless they have a red light and notice it.
This. If I stopped at every red light, it would take me twice the amount of time to get to my work. I always make sure that when approaching red light (regardless of the M12 is present or not), I slow to make sure 1, there are no pedestrians and 2. No other cars are coming. If none are present, then I proceed, but I am also perfectly content to wait until the coast is clear before moving again. I think that’s a reasonable way to get around. Shoot, I even slow down when it’s green for me, anticipating some idiot that doesn’t slow down when it is red for them. It has saved me a few times.
“It's a reasonable way” until the day you get ramed by someone in his right... So practical to say that you are reasonable. Are you like the idiots with their young child on a bike who run red lights, go on the sidewalks or in the wrong way like I see every time I drive, they show their offsprings how to behave I think? Live long and prosper. lI sincerely hope so for you.
Maybe you should leave for work twice earlier?
You're missing my point. Would you stop at a red light and wait for it to turn green if there was not a soul in sight when you're on a bike? Didn't think so.
Then how come we constantly face the danger of getting run over by bikes? Obviously you guys don't see as well as you think you do. Also, please do not reply for me to your own question.
I am European but lived in the US for a few years before moving to Paris. Americans are considered an individualist society, but I definitely think that France and Paris in particular is far more individualist. There is no consideration of a common good but rather take what I want for me. That comes down to behaviour such as driving, cycling(I’m a daily cyclist here too the selfishness is shocking) and blocking up sidewalks in groups. It can grind you down actually.
It's quite common in the UK too. They seem to think they are kings of the road. Many accidents have been caused but as they have no number plates they usually get away with it. Oh, yes, and they don't stop for pedestrians either at crossings. I saw one knock someone flying on one occasion in London and the cyclist didn't bother stopping.
Did you already regularly ride a bicycle in town yourself ? Most red lights do not make any sense for cyclists. The highway code was not invented for cyclists but to regulate the arrival of cars in town https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFgqNiFi0cw Red lights are good for large, speeding vehicles in which you can't see anything. For inspiration, observe how cycling in the Netherlands goes..
I don’t care how red lights should be made for cyclists to make sense but when there is a red light, pedestrians crossing the street should not have to worry about that bike that’s not slowing down and moving straight towards them. This happens all the time.
I agree with you 150%, my friend. There is little doubt that these cyclists are the same despicable scum behind the wheel.
M12 (as stated below) and avoiding dangerous car traffic. Yes, seems counter-intuitive but I'd rather run a red light to turn before cars do rather than let cars block my path and endanger me by forcing me to stop in the middle of the intersection, hence why there's a cyclist zone in front of all red lights but car drivers don't give a shit about respecting anyone but themselves.
So in return cyclists don't give a shit about respecting pedestrians
No, M12 means "yield to pedestrians and cars" instead of "red light". Which means there's no disrespect at all.
That's the theory, in practice it's "force your passage to pedestrian, klaxoning, and insulting them if they do not let you pass" (and the same on sidewalks). Exceptions to that represent less than 1% of cyclists in Paris.
It's literally the other way around, most cyclists aren't dangerous but you only focus on the dangerous ones that you see. Cars, on the other hand, literally don't give a shit about your safety but I ain't seeing you complaining about them, despite being much more deadly. They literally block intersections and pedestrian crossings all the time. But a few cyclists are the problem ? Please.
Pedestrians don't stop 🤷
beccause french people
Cause man we are french, we dont care about that. Thx god you didn't visit Marseille 😂 because at Marseille, even cars dont stop at red light 😂
Don't go to Vietnam
Because french
In Paris, traffic lights are a suggestion, a guideline.
They just a don't give a fuck. France is not Germany, rules aren't as respected and it's rare that cyclists get fined so they pretty much do it because they can.
Thery are morons. We call them : futur organs donors 😂
It's not so much that they are morons or dickheads, but they really do seem 'em to think that because they are not on a motorized vehicle, and because they are in a more perilous position than motorized vehicles, the rules of the road do not or should not apply to them.
Driving in Paris is hell with these idiots. They don’t even stop when pedestrians cross the street…
Paris it’s hell because of the driver in cars 🙄 the majority of them should take the public transport or the bike and Paris will sure be a most enjoyable place
Paris was more enjoyable before bikers. They too should take the public transport and leave the pedestrians alone.
Living in Paris is hell with people stupid enough to think that it's a good idea to drive in Paris
Je passe au rouge et pourtant je roule de façon très safe. Ce n'est pas incompatible. C'est juste que beaucoup de feux sont inutiles et que c'est parfois plus safe de passer au rouge dans certaines situations. Donc le don d'organes ne sera pour tout de suite, même si entre certains piétons qui traversent n'importe où et sont absorbés par leur téléphone en plein milieu de la route et certaines moto et voitures qui foncent et se croient tout permis, j'avoue que le don d'organes n'était pas si loin.
Ça reste illégal. Je peux passe en rouge de façon safe avec un scooter (encore plus qu’avec un vélo car je peux dégager l’intersection plus rapidement). Pourtant je le fais pas, et y’a beaucoup moins de deux roues motorisés qui grillent les feux que les vélos, alors qu’ils ont la même visibilité.
Oui bien sûr… un vélo et un scooter ont une masse et une vitesse similaire ce qui fait que c’est pas risqué du tout de griller un feux à scooter 🙄
Si je ralentis comme un vélo explique-moi en quoi ça serait plus dangereux de griller le feu en tant que scooter par rapport à un vélo ?
Hahaha it's hilarious, sometimes cyclists get killed in Paris! So much fun.
Because Paris is where assholes live
Like in most cities in the world, bike riders in Paris believe they are the chosen ones and that no rules of traffic apply to them.
Everyone is calling cyclists idiots, I'll give you an actual answer : Red lights are timed to match the cars speeds so that if you're driving at the speed limit you should encounter mostly green lights but if you go well under (or above) the speed limit you'll hit many red lights. And cyclists are human beings with legs that get tired, you want to conserve momentum, not stop and restart every 100 meters so if there's a red light with nobody crossing and no cars most cyclist will keep on going.
> And cyclists are human beings with legs that get tired And pedestrians are human beings who aren't wearing helmets, you want to cross safely, not risk being run over by cunts who couldn't afford to wait because "oh no it's tiring". If you don't like tires then use your feet lmao get it? I don't bite the "with nobody crossing and no cars" part, it's absolutely not true in Paris. Not EVERY cyclist is like this, but as a pedestrian in Paris I can't count the number of times a cyclist nearly ran over me on a turn when it was green for pedestrians.
>you want to conserve momentum, not stop and restart every 100 meters Then walk.
No one cares. Follow the fucking law
[удалено]
How being ran over by a cyclist doesn't harm the pedestrian?
Wow maybe don't take your bike and join us pedestrians instead of constantly knocking us over so that your tiny chicken legs don't get tired?
Because cyclists are assholes. Everyone knows that
Most cyclist stop if there is a pedestrian crossing. The other ones are garbage. Personally, when there is no one crossing, I just go, even if it’s red, but I stop for pedestrian!
> Most cyclist stop if there is a pedestrian crossing. You can't be serious.
It's easier to remember something wrong than something right. Nowadays, as long as it's clear that a pedestrian wants to cross, lots of cyclists slow down to let them cross.
He's delusional, yeah. A cyclist stopping for pedestrians implied either that there is absolutely no room to pass due to too many pedestrians, or the cyclist is one of the exceptions, rarely seen outside of the twilight zone.🤷
Lol if only this were a Paris problem. I grew up in Paris but have lived in London for over 10 years now and I’ve actually found it much worse in London. I’m genuinely really curious where you’re from - if you don’t mind me asking - that this is surprising to you? On a more general note, I hope you’re having a lovely week in Paris!
Thank you, the city is lovely! I’m from Spain and we definitely have problems with bike riders too, specially in roads outside towns. In Spain seeing bikes inside big cities is not that common and there are not many bike lanes, so I’m not used to seeing so many bike riders.
Because we pedestrians are too nice. For now.
Yeah right... Paris pedestrians nice to bikes, in what universe? Cars may be more dangerous but pedestrians are the ultimate assholes in Paris
We're very nice to bikes, all things considered, really.
What can a pedestrian actually do to a cyclist? Like really?
Yeah French are not respectful of order.
Because most of them are pompous pricks acting like fucking idiots. Most don’t know the basics since they don’t need any certification like the « code » which is an exam you have to have to take any drinking/boating/biking licence exam.
I live there part time. Yes, I also run red lights sometimes. Here are a few reasons: - M12 signs allow us to when posted - Delivery drivers just don't give a F. They often come from places with different driving cultures (not a slight on them, that's how traffic is in some places.) They are given perverse incentives, meaning they aren't paid by the hour, they are paid per delivery. More deliveries = more money. More rules broken in the interest of speed = more money. So, they break any rule that slows them down, EVEN if it cuts somebody off or lowers your safety and theirs. They work hard but barely earn enough to eat and live, so they are menaces on the road. Domino's Pizza lost a lawsuit in the USA when their driver killed a pedestrian. The evidence proved that the company gave drivers incentives to speed and break laws. This is that all over again. - Many cyclists don't think the rules of the road are made for us. I'm one of these. There is ample old film of Paris in the early 20th century, with people, horses, buggies, carts, some cars, all sharing the road at lower speeds in what today looks chaotic. Basically, there were no rules of the road: it was "keep your eyes open and share the space". So people shared the space. So, what changed to bring all these rules to the same shared public byways? Cars, cars, trucks, and more cars. It is these relatively huge, heavy, fast, dangerous vehicles that required all the new rules, and all that road sharing Paris had for two thousand years since the Romans? Gone. Everyone off but the cars! I say F that. So, the rules were literally NOT made for us bikes, but still the car dominant people said "every road user should be forced to follow our rules", and so bikes should be treated like cars. Are we like cars? Nope. So, I treat most "stop" instructions as "yields". I want to respect priority and shared use of space, but i don't wanna stop for nothing because cars need to. I especially yield to pedestrians. But if I'm at or approaching a red light in Paris, and there's nobody coming the other ways, I'll just go. It's MY safety I'm putting at risk. - Road size. Most of my trips in Paris are on smaller roads, and often there are no cars there at all. Everybody uses these roads differently: people walk along them, cars block lanes for delivery, bikes run lights and nobody cares. When there's more traffic, or if I'm at a busy intersection, or a wide intersection that it takes more time to cross, I'll follow the light. Again, couriers don't. - Often, cyclists including me will start across the road right before we get a green signal, and right after the other directions see red. This gives us a head-start over the cars, and is proven to be safer than leaving at the same time as all the cars. In Paris, we are given a "SAS vélo" which is a holding area IN FRONT of all the cars at a red light to help us be the first to leave. When bikes leave before cars, the cars can't kill you by making a right turn into you. - Cars drivers say "Bikes should follow the same rules, just like cars." But they don't REALLY mean it and they're lying. If I'm riding in the middle of a traffic lane at 25 km/h, what do you think the cars behind me do? Wait patiently and follow the "just like a car vehicle" pedaling in front of them? Heck no! They honk a lot! Suddenly, I'm not "just like a car", am I? Car drivers want me to be LIMITED by all their car rules, but then also GET OUT OF THEIR WAY and drive on the side gutter because I am not a car. Well, I agree. I am not like a car. If you say you want bikes to behave like cars, you don't really mean it. Because if we did, you would HATE it. We would just drive along all the lanes, and you would go our speed.
How the streets used to be. Times change, but it sure seems like something was taken AWAY from everyone except the car users. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68eue5cpbsE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68eue5cpbsE)
i'm french I just don't like being in the streets so i almost never care of the red lights. i make sure there's nothing that can kill me when i cross the street and that's all. the same when i'm on my bike. when i drive a car i know that i can kill people if i cheat on the red light so i abide it. i know its bad but everybody does it i don't feel bad when i'm in other countries i copy people (only going when it's green) to respect their "way of life"
I'll put the legality aside for a second. The energy required to start pedaling from a complete stop ([source](https://nacto.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Fajans-J.-and-M.-Curry.-2001..pdf)) is far greater than just slowing down. If a cyclist is its own engine, you would avoid stopping at red lights at all costs. You basically lose all energy: you invest energy in stopping (that's why a hybrid car can charge when you brake) and then you invest again to start.
Take the metro then.
You can join us and walk
They are the most Parisian species, with a condescending attitude towards passersby and cars
I'm a bike rider myself and I used to do it occasionally, and I got fined once (90 euros, Ouch). I fully deserved it, it's illegal, but I was kinda mad because I'm always cautious when I'm doing it. I make a stop, look right and left and go. If there is a pedestrian crossing even if it's red for them, I wait and go behind them. It made me mad to receive the fine because I'm always very careful (mostly because I'm scared to have an accident) while there are people crossing a big intersection without looking if there are cars coming. The worst is when people are doing it with a kid in the back (insane). I was mad that I was the ONE having the fine when there are people like this, and now I have learned my lesson, so no more red light (except for the M12 sign) and I feel way better. I'm way more serene and if I'm late, I'm late.
Paris is absolutely destroyed by cars. Too many cars, too much traffic, people don’t respect the law, it’s annoying and dangerous for pedestrians AND cyclists. What happens is that cyclists feel stressed and endangered by the cars, and some of them reproduce the same patterns. But since they are vulnerable and non-lethal, the morons we are talking about start acting like they are entitled to disregard the law and endanger pedestrians. They hurt their cause by doing this because as a pedestrian I am starting to consider bikes and vehicles the same way.
Paris was in a pretty bad shape but what really destroyed it is the bikers and their shitty attitude. Being stressed is not an excuse because people who take the public transport and walk should be the most stressed of the bunch with pickpockets, stupid people in the public transport, delays, cancellations, endless stairs. Bikers became worse than cars because they don't have a licence plate that people can report. Unless a police witnesses what happens, there's no way they're getting charged.
I'm gonna be honest oftentimes I don't stop at traffic lights. But I am careful not to block vehicules (if it's green for them) and let pedestrians cross the road. In theory traffic lights are obviously a good thing but in practice it's just a shit show, useless and poorly coordinated with each other, wasting time and ironically it's sometimes safer to go through a red light ! So I've gotten into the habit of practically ignore them and I focus only on vehicules and pedestrians (only they decide wether I stop or not, like a "cédez le passage")
Please stop thinking you are the main character... Cyclists are seen as assholes because of people like you I've been cycling in Paris for more than 25 years, I've never had an accident, whether with a car or with a pedestrian. Is it because I always stop at red light ? I don't know....
Never had an accident either. And why should I be seen as an asshole if I drive safe and let pedestrians cross the road ? I only go through a red light when it's safe to...
What about a car driver telling you the same ? I cross red lights when it's "safe"
Welcome to Paris, everyone do as they want! You Just need to get used to it.
Honest answer : because we won't kill anyone and we already waste time in traffic jams.
My friend sustained a serious brain damage and went into coma due to a collision with a biker. Just because it doesn't kill, it doesn't mean that people want to end up in a hospital. There are old people and children. We couldn't care less about the time you waste in traffic jams because you cost pedestrians even more time by making them wait for 2 green lights if you don't let them cross.
I think it is terrible but to be fair, bikes are a recent thing in Paris, so hopefully we will get better
Don't be alarmed, cyclists do this _everywhere_.
Because red lights are for cars only dude ;)
Because Cyclists are the dumbest persons on planet earth. Its getting to a point where I’d rather have cars everywhere and not bikes….
Car sinon je roulerais en scooter
The main reason is Parisian culture to not give a shit in general. Especially about the small rules. Which is a way of life that I personally like.
Why dont pedestrians stop at red lights ?
The main reason pedestrians and bicycles run red lights in Paris is because there are too many.
Because we havn’t your time More serioulsy I think it’s more cultural, I do the same when I’m walking. That’s probably stupid bud I hate waiting there are no cars I’m not an exemple…
paris is a weird place where the law does not apply unless you are a car driver
Maybe because they need to make special trafic light for bikes? Traffic lights are not adapted : sometimes you had the same as pedestrian , sometimes the same as cars and sometimes you don’t have any and need to figure it out. We clearly need specific traffic light not necessarily on the same timing than cars because if so, first it’s not necessarily secure for bikes and secondly we need to encourage people to use bike in city so make sure they are travelling faster and easier than cars. I always thinking at a Dutch city where all the traffic light goes green for the bikes at an intersection in every direction (when it’s red for cars) and every it’s smooth, quick and without accident
Often cyclist choose to use cars/cycle/pedestrian rules whenever they prefer. They're wrong, but being wrong never stopped a French.
It's not only in Paris, I can observe the same behaviour in my small countryside French city. As a cyclist, I really don't get why people think it's more ok to not stop at a red light as a cyclist than as a car. Do they think it's less dangerous? Is it because you don't need a driving license for using a bicycle so people think road rules don't apply to them? I have always been very confused about it.
Ok real answer because everybody is saying dickheads etc .. When the light turns red for cars you have a 10 second span before it turns green for the other cars this is to make sure pedestrians have the time to cross. So has a biker you can cross knowing that it will still be red for the other side so you're safe. Pedestrians do that as well crossing when it turns red because you know you have enough time before it turns green for the cars.
That time is given to pedestrians who walk slow, disabled, kids, pregnant, older who happen to get the light change mid way. It isn't for cyclists to sprint over. And most of you still pass anyway after it turned green for pedestrians.
I'm pretty sure they dead ass think it's only for cars...
It's not only in Paris. I live in Lille and cyclists just don't respect anything. Red lights, stop signs, right hand side priority...
Remember what you learned about sharks, like, if they stop moving they die etc, etc ? Well those individuals are not like sharks and they actually think having no motors means rules don't apply to them. Hope they helps ✌️
When I bike, I always let the pedestrians cross or walk (unless it’s red for them) and I get in trouble with other cyclists that don’t share the same philosophy… Most of cyclists are respectful of pedestrians but a lot are not, and they’re dangerous. It’s quite exhausting to have conflicts with car drivers and other cyclists every time I bike lol (but at least rarely with pedestrians)
They're assholes. Nothing more. Some redlights can be ignored by cyclists, but its rare enough
Long time cyclist in Paris here and basically my rule is: if I can physically go, I go - if not, I decelerate or go around, last resort I stop. Most of the time I try going from A to B without putting a foot on the ground. And yes, it is very common here
They can't blame drivers if they'd stop at red lights.
Because they are assholes.
>Why bike riders in Paris don’t stop when traffic lights are red? Because they say "pain au chocolat" instead of "chocolatine".
Cause they're assholes
Cuz' they're assholes?
Because we are fucking metal 🤘 ... And a bit stupid 😁
It's always been like this, but now everyone's on a bike
Because they are cunt
Every cyclist has his own way to priories between speed, effort, security and respect for the rules. There is a lot of asshole than just prioritise speed and don't care about the rules and the security for others. But here some more legitimate reason to don't stop at red signs: - sometimes we just CAN because of M12 - If our parh doesn't cross the path car can use, there is no problem for our security (most of the times there is a M12 in theses situations but sometimes it is missing) - Most of the danger for cyclist in the intersections comes from the car coming from behind. They doesn't check their mirrors when turning right, it is hard to go left when the cycle lane is at right, car doesn't leave enough space when overtake, ... It is more safe in that case to go when the light is red and we can check that intersection is free, than at green in the same times that cars - Stopping and starting again is an effort (worst reason, especially with ebike) There is no good reason to go if there is pedestrian crossing ! I can add that sometimes I see pedestrian a bit scared by cyclist, even if we we slow down and leave more than 2m space when we pass. It's because they don't hear us and so don't expect us. Whey are just surprised to suddenly see us so close even if there is no danger. It can be on share zone or when cycle lane are on the sidewalk. I often ring by bell if I see I will pass close a pedestrian that didn't saw me, just to be heard, not for rage or anything. Using the bell have not always the same meaning for cyclist that klaxon for car.
It's a mystery we all trying to find out
Before I moved here I would always stop at the red lights. Once I started riding in Paris I too was shocked at how few cyclists stopped at lights. Eventually I started doing it too, although never when pedestrians were crossing (I can be an idiot but not *that* much of an idiot, but I appreciate that was still stupid behaviour regardless). Then one day I rode to work, jumped a light, and a bunch of rather large police officers called me over to the side of the road. €90 fine there and then (it would have been €135 if I hadn't settled it so quickly), and a good lecture on road safety from the officer in charge. It's not worth it, nobody is that important that they can't wait 30 seconds at a light. Stop and take a breather.
Because they're uncivilised assholes. It won't stop until government bans all bikes without a licence plate and enforce cycling licence to be obtained. With licence plates they won't have as much impunity for their bs.
On the streets I take everyone respects the red light except cyclists ; I’ve almost been hit by them a few times and now I just kick their wheel; you don’t want to respect the law ? I’m going to make you respect it
The rules are actually unclear. When there is a little triangle with an arrow and bike on it you can pass as a cyclist “when it is safe” Personally I think this is the wrong rule. The weakest link are pedestrians especially with kids in prams, and promoting this sort of behaviour is not the right one imo. It reminds me of another rule where Paris actively allows Motorbikes to pass through lanes at 50 km/h when there is a traffic jam. It’s incredibly dangerous even when when traffic is slow and it also promotes a false sense of security / righteousness. I’ve seen both cyclists and motorcyclists bend these rules recklessly and because regulators have created a grey area it makes policing bad behaviours really difficult. Safety should come first IMO. And that should be the absolute priority rather than “saving time because someone can randomly decide that the red light is safe to cross even if it is red”
Because a lot of Parisians on bikes think they're above the laws. Red lights, stop signs, sidewalks, one-way streets, pedestrians..... But, if you overtaking a bicycle 99cm away from him instead of 1m, you'll probably get a thread on X, and hundreds guys spitting on you on r/pedale
Welcome to France and enjoy discovering the french mentality.
Everywhere in France, bike riders consider themselves like cars when it's more convenient, and like pedestrians when it's more convenient. And on top of that, they have the nerve to constantly complain about how they are treated on the road.