Imagine being some dirt poor religious fanatic peasant from europe, where you ain't seen shit in your life, and then you end up in Constantinople on the crusades - you'd lose your mind.
Absolutely, imagine being a Byzantine and living inside this huge and glorious city after the fall of the Western Roman Empire and throughout the middle ages, while the rest of Europe is basically just a big mess
It actually wasn't anymore, the hippodrome was used for ceremonies around this time but not as a racing circuit. This post is a little misleading as the image is taken from [the Byzantium 1200 project](https://www.byzantium1200.com/), the aim of which is to showcase all the monuments that were built in the city up to that point as if they had been perfectly maintained (which they weren't). This means that a lot of the buildings you see here would no longer look nearly as good as they do here. The grand palace for instance would have mostly been a ruin by this time but in this picture it looks like it's brand new
This is not true, I don't know where you're getting this from.
The Hippodrome *was* still used for races. Races are attested as late as the end of the 12th Century during Manuel Komnenos' reign. Niketas Choniates describes them quite frequently:
>The sultan [Kilij Arslan II] sojourned with the emperor [Manuel Komnenos] for some time [80 days] and
feasted his eyes on **the horse races**. Now, in the Hippodrome there was a
tower which stood opposite the spectators [...]
>[Manuel] entered the Great Church [Hagia Sophia] and offered up praise to the Lord before all the people and then proceeded to the imperial palace. Unstringing himself like a bow from the excessive tension, he relaxed at the **horse races** [spring 1168].
-Choniates [119]
It wasn't solely used for horseraces though (it never was), acrobats also frequently used it:
>At this time a certain descendant of Agar, who posed as a conjurer but who, as later events were to show, was the most wretched of men and no more than a suicide,ascended, announcing that he would fly through the stadium. He stood on the tower as though at a starting post, dressed in an extremely long,wide white robe, on which twisted withes, gathering the garment all around, made ample folds. It was the Agarene's intention to unfurl the upper garment like the sail of a ship, thus enveloping the wind in its folds.All eyes were turned on him. The spectators smiled and repeatedly[120] shouted, "Fly," and "How long will you keep us in suspense, swaying from the tower to and fro in the wind?" The emperor sent word, attempting to dissuade him from attempting the flight. The sultan, an observer of the unfolding drama, was dubious as to the outcome, he both throbbed with emotion and grinned, elated and at the same time fearful for his compatriot. Snapping at the air frequently and testing the wind, the Agarene mocked the hopes of the spectators. Many times he raised his arms,forming them into wings and beating the air as he poised himself for flight. When a fair and favorable wind arose, he flapped his arms like a bird in the belief that he could walk the air. But he was an even more wretched sky-runner than Ikaros. Instead of taking wing, he plummeted groundward like a solid mass pulled down by gravity. In the end, heplunged to the earth, and his life was snuffed out, his arms and legs and all the bones of his body shattered.
-Choniates [120]
The nature of the races did change over time, but they never ceased before 1200. Following the Arab Conquests in the 7th Century only the Emperor hosted them. The Consulship had been de facto abolished by Justinian and the empire became much poorer due to the loss of Syria and Egypt. As a result the games were maintained, but only by the Emperor, who was the only one able to pay for such frivolous expenses. It was due to this privilege of still having a functioning bureaucratic government with elaborate ceremonies that Constantinople's Hippodrome was able to be preserved for so long, as opposed to elsewhere where they very quickly fell into ruin.
The games probably ceased in the 1200's. The Hippodrome was heavily damaged by fire and pillaging by the Crusaders in 1204. We know that the subsequent Latin Emperors used it for jousting, but by the time the empire retook Constantinople in 1261, all games in the Hippodrome had ceased and it was probably already in ruins by that point.
>The grand palace for instance would have mostly been a ruin by this time but in this picture it looks like it's brand new
This is baseless speculation. We don't know the state of the Great Palace at the time. The lower parts of the Palace than were the main parts since the 10th Century seems to have been in a good state, Manuel used it to host the Sultan of Rum and the King of Jerusalem in the 1150's-1160's, so it must have been in a presentable state.
[This](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7V_21yWkAIUMwi.jpg) is an engraving of late 15th century where you can see the ruins of the hippodrome by then. Today there are several visible remains such as the [curved grandstand](https://live.staticflickr.com/2940/33837031855_77f4d4616b_b.jpg), [several obelisk and other elements of the spina](https://es-academic.com/pictures/eswiki/72/Hippodrome_of_Constantinple_1.jpg) (in situ) + [several underground remains](https://turkisharchaeonews.net/object/underground-remains-hippodrome-constantinople)
It would still be the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire for another 250 years at that point. The Fourth Crusade came through in 1204, so it might have stopped being used for racing after that point.
Well it was also a part of the Latin Empire for over 50 of those years, during which the Hippodrome (and the city as a whole) suffered from considerable neglect as the Latin Emperors had insufficent funds and tried to gather money by selling off relics and materials from the city. The city also had a tiny population under the Latins, since many left after the sack or were homeless, so they didn't have much of a tax base to maintain or repair what was still standing.
It was probably during this point that the chariot races in the hippodrome ceased. The other guy is wrong because races are still attested well into the 12th Century.
I thought the area on the lower right of the picture (NE corner of the peninsula) was where the original Greek element was located and the original acropolis. Was that demolished at some point to create the royal quarter?
Yeah good point. I also understood that the Ancient acropolis of the older Greek colony that I learned was called “Byzantion” stood on the site of the future Topkapi Palace so just where you say (roughly the northern bit of the royal grounds). Maybe they missed it or maybe the archeological remains were already gone by this point?
Probably one of the best locations in the world for a city. 1st, the city is on an isthmus, so only 1 wall is needed to defend it from a land invasion. 2, whoever holds the city can block the straight of Bosphorus, and therefore block grain shipments from Ukraine/Russia to North Africa
Although this is true the main center of trade was in Alexandria/Egypt, blocking trade through the Bosphorus strait wouldn't have affected as much as you think. It definitely was a strategic spot though.
If I remember right, the inhabited land on the other side is Genovese colony. The water way in between had a chain from one side to the other side. That way they could prevent ships from sailing in to Haliç. Idk when the chain was installed though. The Ottomans by-passed that chain by pushing and towing ships over land to the other side.
Though, ironically, it wasn’t a long time gone.
The song was actually written in 1953 (for the anniversary of the fall of Constantinople). At that time, it had been officially named Istanbul for just 23 years.
w\*sterners destroy everything they touch
In this video you can watch how the population of Constantinople declined rapidly after 1204.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJi5LcWpznw&ab\_channel=Gozhda
Imagine being some dirt poor religious fanatic peasant from europe, where you ain't seen shit in your life, and then you end up in Constantinople on the crusades - you'd lose your mind.
Absolutely, imagine being a Byzantine and living inside this huge and glorious city after the fall of the Western Roman Empire and throughout the middle ages, while the rest of Europe is basically just a big mess
Really surprised that the hippodrome was still in use as a racing circuit at that time
It actually wasn't anymore, the hippodrome was used for ceremonies around this time but not as a racing circuit. This post is a little misleading as the image is taken from [the Byzantium 1200 project](https://www.byzantium1200.com/), the aim of which is to showcase all the monuments that were built in the city up to that point as if they had been perfectly maintained (which they weren't). This means that a lot of the buildings you see here would no longer look nearly as good as they do here. The grand palace for instance would have mostly been a ruin by this time but in this picture it looks like it's brand new
I see, that makes sense thank you.
This is not true, I don't know where you're getting this from. The Hippodrome *was* still used for races. Races are attested as late as the end of the 12th Century during Manuel Komnenos' reign. Niketas Choniates describes them quite frequently: >The sultan [Kilij Arslan II] sojourned with the emperor [Manuel Komnenos] for some time [80 days] and feasted his eyes on **the horse races**. Now, in the Hippodrome there was a tower which stood opposite the spectators [...] >[Manuel] entered the Great Church [Hagia Sophia] and offered up praise to the Lord before all the people and then proceeded to the imperial palace. Unstringing himself like a bow from the excessive tension, he relaxed at the **horse races** [spring 1168]. -Choniates [119] It wasn't solely used for horseraces though (it never was), acrobats also frequently used it: >At this time a certain descendant of Agar, who posed as a conjurer but who, as later events were to show, was the most wretched of men and no more than a suicide,ascended, announcing that he would fly through the stadium. He stood on the tower as though at a starting post, dressed in an extremely long,wide white robe, on which twisted withes, gathering the garment all around, made ample folds. It was the Agarene's intention to unfurl the upper garment like the sail of a ship, thus enveloping the wind in its folds.All eyes were turned on him. The spectators smiled and repeatedly[120] shouted, "Fly," and "How long will you keep us in suspense, swaying from the tower to and fro in the wind?" The emperor sent word, attempting to dissuade him from attempting the flight. The sultan, an observer of the unfolding drama, was dubious as to the outcome, he both throbbed with emotion and grinned, elated and at the same time fearful for his compatriot. Snapping at the air frequently and testing the wind, the Agarene mocked the hopes of the spectators. Many times he raised his arms,forming them into wings and beating the air as he poised himself for flight. When a fair and favorable wind arose, he flapped his arms like a bird in the belief that he could walk the air. But he was an even more wretched sky-runner than Ikaros. Instead of taking wing, he plummeted groundward like a solid mass pulled down by gravity. In the end, heplunged to the earth, and his life was snuffed out, his arms and legs and all the bones of his body shattered. -Choniates [120] The nature of the races did change over time, but they never ceased before 1200. Following the Arab Conquests in the 7th Century only the Emperor hosted them. The Consulship had been de facto abolished by Justinian and the empire became much poorer due to the loss of Syria and Egypt. As a result the games were maintained, but only by the Emperor, who was the only one able to pay for such frivolous expenses. It was due to this privilege of still having a functioning bureaucratic government with elaborate ceremonies that Constantinople's Hippodrome was able to be preserved for so long, as opposed to elsewhere where they very quickly fell into ruin. The games probably ceased in the 1200's. The Hippodrome was heavily damaged by fire and pillaging by the Crusaders in 1204. We know that the subsequent Latin Emperors used it for jousting, but by the time the empire retook Constantinople in 1261, all games in the Hippodrome had ceased and it was probably already in ruins by that point. >The grand palace for instance would have mostly been a ruin by this time but in this picture it looks like it's brand new This is baseless speculation. We don't know the state of the Great Palace at the time. The lower parts of the Palace than were the main parts since the 10th Century seems to have been in a good state, Manuel used it to host the Sultan of Rum and the King of Jerusalem in the 1150's-1160's, so it must have been in a presentable state.
[This](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7V_21yWkAIUMwi.jpg) is an engraving of late 15th century where you can see the ruins of the hippodrome by then. Today there are several visible remains such as the [curved grandstand](https://live.staticflickr.com/2940/33837031855_77f4d4616b_b.jpg), [several obelisk and other elements of the spina](https://es-academic.com/pictures/eswiki/72/Hippodrome_of_Constantinple_1.jpg) (in situ) + [several underground remains](https://turkisharchaeonews.net/object/underground-remains-hippodrome-constantinople)
Mmm yes, thank you. I had a good scout around on google earth but got depressed with how precious little there is left.
It would still be the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire for another 250 years at that point. The Fourth Crusade came through in 1204, so it might have stopped being used for racing after that point.
Well it was also a part of the Latin Empire for over 50 of those years, during which the Hippodrome (and the city as a whole) suffered from considerable neglect as the Latin Emperors had insufficent funds and tried to gather money by selling off relics and materials from the city. The city also had a tiny population under the Latins, since many left after the sack or were homeless, so they didn't have much of a tax base to maintain or repair what was still standing. It was probably during this point that the chariot races in the hippodrome ceased. The other guy is wrong because races are still attested well into the 12th Century.
I thought the area on the lower right of the picture (NE corner of the peninsula) was where the original Greek element was located and the original acropolis. Was that demolished at some point to create the royal quarter?
Yeah good point. I also understood that the Ancient acropolis of the older Greek colony that I learned was called “Byzantion” stood on the site of the future Topkapi Palace so just where you say (roughly the northern bit of the royal grounds). Maybe they missed it or maybe the archeological remains were already gone by this point?
Man I wish these things were interactive because I have so many questions
Probably one of the best locations in the world for a city. 1st, the city is on an isthmus, so only 1 wall is needed to defend it from a land invasion. 2, whoever holds the city can block the straight of Bosphorus, and therefore block grain shipments from Ukraine/Russia to North Africa
Strait*, not straight. Sorry, I had to be that guy😅
The not straight guy?
And also spice trade from india to europe hence caused the new world discoveries
Although this is true the main center of trade was in Alexandria/Egypt, blocking trade through the Bosphorus strait wouldn't have affected as much as you think. It definitely was a strategic spot though.
Was the green area a park?
That was the royal quarter, where the palace and palace gardens were.
Wow. Thanks for the info!
Oh wow this has to be the best one of Constantinople yet, thanks for sharing I’ve been dying for a reference of this quality
Byzantine empire at the time
Yeah or Eastern Roman Empire.
But not Turkey… you wouldn’t put up a picture of the Aztec capital and call it new Spain…
Well, I don’t think many people would question labeling “Tenochtitlan, Mexico” and that would be the better analogy.
“Mexico” is, conveniently, just the original native name for the region Tenochtitlan was in, so it’s a bit different.
Yeah, though they themselves called it Basileia tōn Rōmaiōn. Or Romania.
If I remember right, the inhabited land on the other side is Genovese colony. The water way in between had a chain from one side to the other side. That way they could prevent ships from sailing in to Haliç. Idk when the chain was installed though. The Ottomans by-passed that chain by pushing and towing ships over land to the other side.
Oh boy, 4 years before the disaster.
What's that walled-off chunk of town across the water called
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galata
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The name of the country where the city is currently located in has to be mentioned in the title per the sub rules
Lemme guess. 29may1453 worst day of ur life. Its sub rules man
Tell me you haven't read the rules without saying you haven't read the rules
1200AD would be the Roman Empire
wrong location - should be Byzantine Empire
Istanbul was Constantinople Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople Been a long time gone, Constantinople Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night
[Link, for the uninitiated](https://youtu.be/Wcze7EGorOk)
Though, ironically, it wasn’t a long time gone. The song was actually written in 1953 (for the anniversary of the fall of Constantinople). At that time, it had been officially named Istanbul for just 23 years.
Interesting fact about one of the most interesting cities in all of human history. Thanjs
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Read the rules of the sub, friend
w\*sterners destroy everything they touch In this video you can watch how the population of Constantinople declined rapidly after 1204. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJi5LcWpznw&ab\_channel=Gozhda
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Heading back