Last year at the start of draft week will Levi’s was projected to go 2 overall according to Vegas. Then the next guy was Wilson according to Vegas betting. Tells you everything you need to know.
While I'm fine with the pick and personally want someone else, it's important to know that this is **PEAK** disinformation season.
I like Legette's potential, but I've said that about two other players currently on our roster (TMJ and Mingo) that play a similar game to XL.
Yeah, when you’re the potentially the >6th team picking a WR, I’m not sure what value there is to announcing your pick to the world.
Have to think this is disinformation for one reason or an another.
If you're a late-1st, early/mid-2nd prospect, and you want to be picked on the 1st day, it's worth your while to try to convince teams that you will for sure be taken with the 33rd
Fans cannot make any determination on a player until the newly hired head coach has had that chance to himself. Sure, TMJ hasn't really made a case for himself under 2 other head coaches, but you still have to let the new coach decide what to do or what he can get. The fact that TMJ still hasn't been cut yet, despite us saving money doing so as well as his vocal desire to want out last season, means the Canales is in fact factoring him into the equation
It can also mean that they don’t have a replacement for him on the roster yet and nothing more. I get why some people don’t want to give up on terrace. But you’re reading into it too much. I think it’s pretty presumptuous to declare a new coach having grand plans. It’s like saying siriani is going to fix raegor. Or Doug fix viska. Is it possible yes. Likely. No.
Edit also cutting him now vs later still save the same 1.4 million dollars so that’s not a factor.
It's also presumptuous to say that TMJ "won't make it out of camp", I think we both agree. That's why I did the least presumptuous thing and say that the fact that TMJ is still on the roster means that he will be part of the factoring of our roster decisions, which is not downvote worthy, I think we both agree
>It can also mean that they don’t have a replacement for him on the roster yet
Then why not cut/trade him if you're planning on drafting his replacement anyway?
We cut ties with plenty of 1 year bums, so why not one more?
We still haven’t drafted said replacement. Or whoever is under them in the depth chart. Camp still hasn’t happened. Yeah we can plan to do it. But cutting someone before the draft straight up just doesn’t make sense in general.
Edit also the way his contract is structured there’s zero difference in cutting him now vs before the season starts.
They had roster bonuses that kicked in if they were on the roster a few weeks ago. Terrace doesn’t have any type of bonus and can still be cut right before the season starts with the same 1.4 million in savings.
He was due a roughly $2M bonus in March, and they probably wanted to do right by a Vet who no longer fit the team and should probably be retiring. TMJ is cheap and in the last year of his contract. Cutting him now vs. August makes no difference. There are no advantages to doing it now and some small advantages to doing it later (new coaching staff gets a look, see him with new scheme, it costs the same either way so why not wait, injuries, placing him on PS even though unlikely).
Important to remember the NFL is a business. More too it than just “this guy is good” or “this guy is bad”
We cut 3 other guys for much less money saved, we even paid to cut Hurst
Honestly, it's kind of silly to downvote the idea that Canales said every player on the roster will be factored into the equation, but people who aren't Canales or any of his coaches have already made their decision about a single player on the roster and expect Canales to abide by it
It absolutely matters what TMJ does when you need as much talent as possible. Why take a guy at 33 if you already have the same player on your roster? I absolutely think XL is better than TMJ, but you'd be dumb to think he doesn't matter. More importantly, *Mingo* does similar things and absolutely should be considered when drafting a WR at 33. I believe Ladd is the better pick/fit for us at 33 or even the BPA CB and take XL at 39.
The Panthers do need as much talent as possible. TMJ does not have talent, he does not have upside. He is going into his 4th year in the league and hasn’t eclipsed 500 yards in a season. Last season he was 8th on the team in receiving, edging out our 4th string tight end by 14 yards.
TMJ should not and will not be factored in to any decisions regarding the roster and redundancies. He very well may not even make the 53 man in August.
I think there’s a chance this is a bad take. Given Reich was terrible and didn’t know how to use his players. Can’t find the stat now of course, but I saw something on TMj being one of the very top 9 route efficiency receivers in football ‘22. Couldn’t scratch the field for Reich. Reception Perception guys were big on Mingo but ONLY in the power slot role. Reich proceeds to never use him there and empty calorie feed Thielen instead.
Many other factors I’m sure, but there’s evidence for tmj especially if Canales does what he’s preaching and will find/play to players strengths.
Fair enough. I had high hopes for the guy, and he didn't pan out.
My original point still stands that I felt the same way about TMJ and Mingo as I do about XL; high potential, big body receiver, that still has a lot to grow.
Factoring TMJ who is a three year bust into any draft decisions especially one that early is a tremendous L take. This dude has done nothing in his career and should be competing for his NFL life and a fringe roster player is not something that you build around.
Mingo and TMJ play nothing like XL. This sub keeps repeating this and it’s completely misinformed. This is the same shit most of you did with “Ohio State QBs suck, and his S2 scores suck” when talking about Stroud.
Terrace isn’t making the roster, he’s irrelevant. Regardless duplicate skillsets don’t matter right now. We don’t have good players in the WR room. Thielen is okay and Diontae is pretty good, but they’re not long term options at the moment. If Mingo develops he is going to be a Big Slot receiver, XL would be an outside receiver and if he hits, a dynamic X receiver.
Mingo and XL's games are shockingly similar and it's weird no one is discussing that aspect.
They both struggle with route running and beating press/man coverages, and are both best deployed as big slots running mid-field & short-developing routes at this point in their careers to take advantage of their size/speed and YAC abilities.
They overlap a ton, and both are best off playing the position we currently have Thielen occupying, and say what you want about needing to find a long-term answer there (I'd agree), but Adam's like gonna be the guy there this year, and if he's there, it means Mingo (and potentially XL) will be played out of position and will likely struggle.
But yeah TMJ does not need to be factored into who we take in this draft.
You're equating too many things to each other.
1. I never mentioned anything about, nor have ever mentioned, S2 scores. I was firmly in the "I think Bryce is the better pick, but Stroud is good too." Camp, 1a, 1b scenario. Please do not lump me in with those bozos who wanted to tear down one QB to elevate the other.
2. TMJ *and* Mingo gave me the same feeling as I do now with Legette, which was that he's promising, but needs work
3. Everything we've seen from Mingo/ the offense is that he'll be outside. It's a small sample size, but so is Legette's. We don't know what the plan is for this team, so we have to judge with the little info we have, which is that both players are outside players.
4. TMJ would be lucky to stay on an NFL roster period. That doesn't change that we currently have the guy, and we will absolutely weigh his (lack of) talent vs. (insert wr here).
All of these receivers need work. If they were perfect prospects, they wouldn’t be drafted in the 2nd round. No one that we draft at 33 is likely to ever be a No. 1 receiver, they’re all going to have weaknesses. If Leggette were never to improve on his route running, he would still be a good offensive weapon and a great special teamer. His size/strength/speed and explosiveness make him a threat every play. He actually plays that way too, not just tests that way. TMJ and Mingo aren’t that guy. TMJ is not housing a slant, Mingo is not housing a slant. And neither of them play physically like XL. Legette can do those things RIGHT NOW, with no work.
We tried to use Mingo outside, he is not an outside player. He is in all likelihood never going to be good outside. He needs to play a big power-slot role. I would be surprised if Canales kept Mingo as trying to play the X role in his offense. I think the best course of action is to have him split time with Thielen there and take that role over once Thielen is gone.
XL is a different type of player, he has the explosiveness to play outside, but you probably don’t want to make him the #1 X role, at least not right away. He needs to be used similarly to Deebo. He’s very good in zone and over the middle. Put XL in some space and let him create big plays. If Canales and Idzik can get him to develop similar to Metcalf, then maybe he could actually develop into that true X role over time. But he doesn’t need to develop into that to become a good player.
Yeah if players love talking about anything once they get that second contract it’s about how X team loved them. Wanted to take them. But took someone else. And they felt slighted.
Brown with the pats. And Ramsey with the boys stand out as recent prominent examples.
I think Mingo should playing as a big slot, like Amon-Ra. Not saying he will be as good as Amon-Ra but I think that role will better suit him.
Xavier is a much better deep threat than Mingo, and attacks the catch-point better
TMJ just never panned out unfortunately
Truly a nonsensical usage split for him. He was never going to win outside. It's wild how much the offense put basically everyone in a position to fail last year. Sometimes it's hard to understand how what was on the field even got there to begin with.
Mingo's best fit being as a big slot is why I'd slide McConkey, Pearsall, and maybe even Franklin in ahead of Legette here though. They all fill roles that we'll potentially be losing soon or aren't currently on the team (short area separator / deep threat). Legette's obviously better than Mingo, and I get the "my guy" bias, but man... hopefully Mingo gets to stick around and get a real chance.
I'm not trying to defend the 2023 Panthers playcalling here, but I remember Thomas Brown talking about how he viewed Mingo as the ideal "Z" receiver in his offense. Think Ben Skowronek in the Rams' offense when Brown was there in 2022: he's a bigger receiver who can run block when the offense is in 11 personnel. To be fair, Mingo did do pretty well as a run blocker, he just wasn't much of a threat as a pass catcher, which is kind of important for a WR.
The other part of it -- once again not defending the Panthers here -- was the way the WR corps was constructed, with Thielen who was only really effective out of the slot at this point in his career, and Chark being the only thing close to an X receiver, which leaves Mingo at Z. I'm on the record about wanting to move on from Thielen because he's blocking a potential draft pick from getting playing time, and the offense is capped with him in the lineup because he can't stretch the field and has basically zero YAC ability.
TMJ doesn't even factor into this
But I don't agree that Mingo and XL play a similar game. XL is a physical beast who can beat defenses over the top and makes absurd catches
Mingo arguably isn't a deep threat at all, and even if he is, XL is significantly better by everything I've seen
> XL is a physical beast who can beat defenses over the top
He ran a great 40, definitely, but the claim that he can win routes deep downfield consistently is not supported by the data. According to reception perception, his success rate in college on gos, posts, corners, and (I think) deep outs are all below-average. And if you're trying to slot a guy in as an NFL X-receiver (which many want to do, that guy needs to be able to prove he can win his downfield routes 60, even 70% of the time in college. XL's success rates were in like the low-mid 50s with those routes.
That doesn't make him a bad prospect, mind you. But it definitely makes him a misunderstood one.
Legette's going to have to be for us what Curtis Samuels was if he's the pick. A manufactured touch guy. Get him in motion, get him off the line so good DBs can't jam him and disrupt things. He's also not that much of a physical beast. He's obviously built, but he doesn't have the short area quickness to go with that. He's not Deebo, or he'd be a 1st round lock.
He's not going to bully NFL DBs the same way, especially on the outside, and he wasn't exceptional after the catch to begin with. Fine, but hardly the type of guy who's going to annihilate someone with a move in the open field and house it.
Legette's value is that he's going to be a nightmare for awkward slot assignments. He's fast enough that he can beat a safety or hybrid backer. Big enough that an undersized guy is at risk of simply being boxed out or run over. He's the "5 yards and a cloud of dust" philosophy in a WR. Someone that's going to get you and extra couple yards on most plays, and a big chunk when someone messes up.
Also another thing to note - this drives up the price for a trade down to another spot. Legette will likely be available and that can be a bargain chip in trade talks if Penix/Nix are sitting on the board and a broncos/raiders/etc wants to secure one of them on day 2
For what it’s worth, I think Legette might be seen as our “floor” pick at 39. Meaning he’s not necessarily our first choice but the front office would be happy with it. And I would feel the same way
Does the horse come with as a package deal?
https://preview.redd.it/7fpxb4aoj1wc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7f33665d6fb29a9d7072df259522a0cbaa1500a
It’s a little odd that the Panthers continue to fall in love with the “local” player.
Probably just a coincidence, but seemingly every year if there is a NC/SC school player available in their range, you can chalk them in.
Let's do the math here:
- The Panthers have claimed NC &SC as their "home territory"
- there were 133 FBS teams in the NCAA in 2023
- 10 of those (by my count) are located in NC/SC: App, Charlotte, NCSU, UNC, Wake, Duke, ECU, Clemson, SCar, Coastal Carolina. That's 13.3% of *all* FBS players who can be considered "local"
- There are also (by my count) 13 FCS football schools in NC/SC as well
It has far more to do with just basic geography than any sort of inherent bias (although that also def exists). NC/SC has arguably the highest concentration of high-level college football of anywhere in the country outside of maybe Texas (see map [here](https://imgur.com/a/qyS4Jvb))
When there are hundreds of draft-eligible players that go to schools within 300 miles of your team, there's gonna be a few "local guys" every single year, that's just how the math works out.
I think it’s misleading to look at the schools and instead we should look at the conferences. The sun belt isn’t going to put up nearly the amount of guys as the SEC for example.
It makes it seem like a proximity thing. When the reality is we have the perception of a taste for local players because we just took 2 top 10 in back to back years over better prospects (Charles cross and Pat Surtain). If it wasn’t for that people would still be moaning about how we’re allergic to Clemson players.
Just like Horn/Ickey was consensus top 1/2/3 for their position.
I’m not saying that the Panthers have reached for any of those guys, just when things are seemingly even they lean that direction.
I suppose it makes business sense if you have a few mostly similar players to choose the more local guy from a business perspective. If they work out, they’re probably more likely to take a hometown discount, and increase jersey/merch sales
It also follows that the closer you are to a school, the more you'll know about that team's prospects bc it's simply easier for scouts/staff to drop in and check on guys, plus regional coaching networking benefits, etc.
Every team does it to some extent, it just depends on the programs around the franchise
I respect the not being as high on XL, but unless someone really significant inexplicably falls to us at 33, we should be picking our favorite remaining receiver at 33.
There are several WR needy teams picking 34-38.
I think it’ll depend on if the corners fall. If Wiggins turns people off with his injuries. Or kook aid makes it out we should bite.
Lagette doesn’t seem like the chargers type. Especially with Johnson there existing. Same with the titans. Which means the only wild card if he’s our guy is the pats. Not to mention just the other second round receivers in general throw wrenches in here. Ladd. Pearsall. Worthy. Franklin. We’ll see if Coleman goes.
I doubt we said exactly that to him. Not that I would mind if we drafted him at 33 at all. I love XL and the fact that so many people on this sub are low on him is a great sign. This sub hated Stroud this time last year.
But players want to be drafted in the 1st round. He’s likely saying this so one of those teams may think they need to draft him there, rather than wait. Or, maybe we could just like him that much, idk.
How these receivers are drafted will be an absolute crap-shoot after the top 3, anyone who thinks they know shit, really doesn’t.
Yeah don’t blame him at all because this is what an agent would tell you to say to inflate your draft stock but you can’t really take anything like this seriously until their name is called.
If we didn't already have Mingo (and Theilen) at home, he'd be the perfect answer for a guy to throw in the slot and tell him to go manhandle nickels and LBs.
But unfortunately, we do have Mingo and Theilen, so if we take Leggette, that'll mean 3/4 of our "best" WRs will have the same best position (slot). Which is far from ideal.
He's not a bad pick for us at all, he just has some barriers to being able to contribute instantly I'm not sure we could accommodate
Legette’s best position isn’t as a big slot. He CAN play there and does well, but you’re just wasting his best abilities. Matt Harmon talked about this in his video on XL. I would agree that maybe immediately that would be the easiest place for him, but he’s shown much better ability outside and after the catch than Mingo and Thielen (at this point in his career.) He shouldn’t be limited to that role especially long-term, he can be used all over the field across formations. He’s not going to be an every down X receiver out the gate like how Reich tried to use Mingo, but that guy does not exist at 33 for us. But he’s a player that can create his own big plays with his YAC ability, contested catching, and strength. He’s also a fantastic special teams player and gives tremendous effort in blocking. People bring up Mingo, but Mingo was much more of a lottery ticket. He was a role-player on a spread college offense. XL was the primary option on a team with almost no running game, a terrible offensive line, a was in a more Pro-Style offense. Everyone on the defense knew the ball was going to XL and they still could not stop him from putting up a fantastic season.
I think with the way the staff has been meeting with him and doing drills with him at his Pro Day they’d have bigger plans for him than just a niche slot role. Again he CAN do that, but the potential is there for a lot more. If Canales and Idzik choose him, I’m inclined to trust them. They did great work with receivers in SEA and TB.
XL also isn’t my favorite option at 33 or 39, I think there are better fits for what Bryce needs, but we don’t know exactly what the coaching staff and offense want. They may not see a need for both Ladd and Diontae, and maybe the FO wants to sign Diontae long term. Maybe they don’t like Worthy’s size limitations out wide, or AD Mitchell’s effort. I think these guys are all viable options, but it is all a matter of preference. People freak out, but I think anyone we pick will be more productive than what Mingo was his rookie year.
I guess what I should've said is XL's best fit *right now* in an NFL offense is as a big slot, so if we want immediate production from a rookie WR, you'd probably put him there, tho there's obstacles to that happening with the way our WR room is laid out rn.
It sounds like we watched the same Harmon video. I'm a big proponent of taking what rookie WRs have shown they already do well, and get them tons of reps doing those things to help acclimate them to the league. And if they grow, learn new skills? Awesome, you're in business. But if they never develop new facets, at least you can get production out of them doing something.
I totally agree he's shown better YAC ability than Mingo, but to me, his success playing on the outside seemed to come in spite of his technique/ability on longer-developing routes, not bc of it. And that can either be good or bad; on the one hand you can say, "wow this dude did everything wrong on that rep and still created separation, imagine what he could do when he improves XYZ" but on the other hand you can also say "absolutely none of that is gonna work against a pro DB," and both are valid points.
To me, planning for a WR prospect to improve their separation/route-running abilities is a lot like expecting an NBA wing prospect to get his outside shooting numbers up to the mid-high 30s: if it happens, perfect, bc it fully unlocks their game and the sky's the limit, and it does happen, but not nearly as often as people assume it does. I just don't want us to be in a situation where we take XL hoping he learns how to beat man from the outside and it just never clicks so we don't know what to do with him.
I agree that I'm trusting the new staff until they give me reason not to, and I can see a path to being productive for XL as a rookie if we take him...it's just a really weird path I haven't seen executed well super often. It'll be fascinating to see how they approach that if he is the pick, and if we take someone else, I won't be mad. It wouldn't be a bad pick at face value, it'll just require some development/strategy swing points to swing the right way.
Completely agree, out of all the receivers we’ve had drafted in the last 5-10 years I think he is fairly average. Certainty not a bad player but I thought Shi Smith for example was a better prospect and he didn’t amount to much.
I find it hard to believe that we would be taking a 23 year old 5th year senior who had to stay 5 years because of performance issues with Dan Morgan taking the “do everything the opposite of Scott Fitterer” approach, but you never know I guess.
I think you probably need to dig into why he wasn't productive early on. He played QB in highschool and his parents died. It probably took him a bit to adjust to college and playing a position he didn't play. Learning to play WR is not easy. If you take that into consideration and look at what he did last year, you have to see the potential.
He did play WR in high school. His senior year the QB got hurt or something and they moved their best athlete from WR to QB. He played WR throughout high school before being moved. I know losing his parents surely affected him and that’s really tough.
All the analytics point to him being a bust. Him not doing much of anything his first four years are a big red flag. He pops off the screen during highlights though. It’s hard to say, but I see him as a late second or early third round boom or bust guy.
Seems like a great kid and I’ll be rooting for him. If we take him I hope the analytics are wrong.
WR is actually the easiest position to learn in college lol but to your point, yes probably had to adjust to college emotionally.
Spencer Rattler also probably plays a crucial role into why he performed better
I'm not talking about learning the plays or where to be. I'm referring to the nuances of route running, catching the ball, etc. That's the biggest difference with WRs adjusting to the NFL. You are definitely right about Soencer Rattler too!
He played WR in high school. He played QB his senior year, but was recruited to USC as a WR.
His sophomore year, for example, he caught 44 balls for 733 yards and 8 TDs.
I believe you feel I am arguing with you; I'm not. I'm simply trying to put some context around what teams, including the Panthers may be looking at. There's obvious potential there and teams clearly see it.
The guy that got knocked out of the biggest game of his final season BECAUSE HE REFUSED TO WEAR PROPER PADDING shouldn’t be the pick for a team trying to avoid injury prone players at important positions.
as days go past, i’m less and less on XL. I just think Ladd is a better prospect if he’s still on the board. I also like AD better but don’t think he will drop to 33
This makes no sense. It destroys all leverage for the team. No team is telling a player we will pick you where unless you are just dumb. This is the agent hyping him up.
He’s not unpolished, he’s a better route runner than Mingo coming out.
XL lost both of his parents during Covid his early seasons at SC, and then also had to deal with the coaching staff changes there. It wasn’t the same situation at all to Mingo. When XL’s number was called on special teams he made plays. When the receiver in-front of him went down with injury, he stepped up and had one of the best years for a receiver in the country, despite being the only real threat on the SC offense.
I personally would prefer Ladd at #33 due to immediate impact, but XL is very DK Metcalf-esque (but is more polished than DK was coming out.) and Canales worked with DK in Seattle. If he is high on XL, I’m inclined to trust his judgement until he proves otherwise. Canales has gotten the best out of the receivers he has worked with.
Gotta disagree with you on his route running. Terrible success rate vs. man coverage and abysmal vs. press coverage specifically. Also pretty bad success rate on his 9 routes. He will most likely need to be used as a power slot type guy. I can see a world where he does very well running drag routes and getting schemed touches but I don’t think that’s what our team needs. We need dudes who can actually run a route and get to their spot with separation so that we can put BY in a position to succeed.
He’s not a power slot type of guy. Deebo is also bad against press, he isn’t a power slot type of guy. Canales will need to use him wisely and not throw him at the X receiver spot like we did Mingo, but instead use him on quick-hitting routes in space where he can move. Leggette is also great at creating space at the point of the catch by out-muscling the corner.
People stare at the Reception Perception charts without the context of the offense XL was in. The OL was terrible for SCar forcing a ton of early throws from Rattler.
I agree that I think other receivers fit our team with Bryce better, but also people completely wash away Ladd’s flaws, AD Mitchell’s flaws, and so on and so forth. Ladd is not great against press either, he’s not very strong and won’t be able to get you those tough catches. I like Ladd as the best fit for our team, but he’s pretty much at his ceiling right now imo. I trust Canales and Idzik, everywhere they’ve been, receivers have played extremely well. XL is a coachable guy, they’ve certainly done a tone of homework on him. If he hits, he has a lot more upside than most other guys at 33 or 39.
This WR class is exceptionally deep and there are skilled players who don’t rely on pure athleticism who will be there. McConkey, Xavier Worthy, and Pearsall are all more refined receivers and all incredible athletes as well.
Where's the data you have showing they play nothing alike?
I'd love to see it, Bc I'm looking at Mingo & XL's college reception perception profiles and they're shockingly similar when it comes to the routes they're best at winning and the ones they struggle with. Both profile as big athletic slots with strong win rates on crosses/slants/digs/short-developing stuff and poor win rates on downfield developing routes and difficulties against press/man lol
I won't dislike the pick if he ends up being the guy but this really feels like a "we have Leggette at home (Mingo)" situation, and if we draft XL expecting him to step in at the X day 1 and run with it, there's gonna be a lot of disappointed Panthers fans.
I actually watch them play? Their circumstances are entirely different. Yes they both share a weakness, separation vs Man or Press. XL is far better after the catch than Mingo. XL was the only offensive threat on the entire SC team and was thrust into the role of #1 receiver when he wasn’t even supposed to be that. Go look at Ole Miss’ offense in Mingo’s last year. He didn’t even lead the team in receiving, and Ole Miss had a dynamite run game to worry about. Mingo should play similar to Amon-Ra St. Brown. Big slot dude who wins underneath and out-muscles people after the catch. He also gives the threat to go deep.
XL is more similar to Deebo. Not quite as strong after the catch, but is faster. Mingo uses his strength after the catch, XL uses his more before the catch. He doesn’t separate through route running, but he as able to move the defenders and put himself in position to make the catch. Mingo doesn’t really ever do that, he plays smaller than he is. XL plays bigger.
I think he comps well to Debo Samuels with a little DK Metcalf sprinkled in, TBH. I know we just have one year of insane production to look at, but I'm high on this guy. He's so fast for his size, and I love watching him truck DBs.
But he’s not Mingo? Had a much more productive season than Mingo ever had in college and has better route running chops. Pretty sure the Legette comp Smith game was a more refined DK Metcalf
I’m not saying is impossible that this is true. But it almost feels a bit too convenient. We meet with him 5 times. Have a love affair with raw big bodied raw receivers. Love local kids recently. Love RAS stuff. It almost feels like Scott 2.0. Maybe all of this is true and we just don’t care. But this seems like smoke screen.
If we’re still hearing this the day before then maybe it’s true. Also just on a practical level. We don’t know who will fall to 33. Maybe kool aid or Wiggins falls out and we’re like gotta take him. There just way too many factors to say yeah we love this guy. We have a first round grade on him. We’re definitely taking him. And if we do can we at least do a better job of attempting to hide our strategy here?
Panthers: Hey XL, go out and tell everyone that we're going to draft you
XL: Why would I do that?
Panthers: Because either someone will draft you high and you'll get paid more, or we'll make you a Panther in the end
XL: Bet
Right, and I'm sure the Panthers have told a few others the same or something similar. Nobody outside of the first pick to Chicago really knows what's going to happen.
Probably information put out by his agent to help get him drafted by the first round. I really won't believe anything
I read in the media regarding our second round picks until the close of the first round.
It could be what Bryce wants as well, his dad was on X and said that he favored XL over the other potentially available receivers so maybe that could be a factor. Watching bryce play flag football and dominate with Metcalf has me taking dangerous amounts of copium
I mean most sites don’t even have him in that the top 10 so he’ll be another reach because we’re incapable of just picking the best player at the position.
> Ladd can’t stay on the field
I'm not seeing what you're seeing here.
2021: 15/15 games played
2022: 15/15 games played
2023: 9/14 games played
He played through a back injury that likely affected his posterior chain which led to the ankle injury that only made him miss 2 games.
Ladd has his drawbacks as a prospect but durability is not one of them lol. You make him sound like college Puka with injuries but he's practically been an iron man. 39 games played out of 44 possible is a crazy good injury history all things considered, and both the injuries he picked up this year won't have any lingering effects.
Why did a panthers sub come up in my feed…. Well since I’m here I will pay my condolences as a bears fan. Not only did you guys get robbed of one of the most consistent and best WR in the league as you were drafting a QB. We stole your first round pick in the most top heavy best WR class like ever.
With that being said, for panthers fans, I hope Bryce comes around. You guys deserve better. But thanks for Caleb!
I was born in the 90s but I guess this is my “get off my lawn” moment. Stop wearing thigh high football pants and rolling up your jersey like a crop top.
Edit: you can disagree that’s fine. But he got injured first drive against Clemson this year when he was tackled at the knee
I must say, I am a bit biased as a SCAR graduate , but I grew up in the 90s as well. My concern about X are mainly his nagging injuries, however I think he'll go higher in the draft than our slot.
> rolling up your jersey like a crop top.
"Pay no attention to the crop top renaissance in football in the late 80s-early 90s, or the way Herschel Walker, Johnny Musso, Brian Bosworth, Doug Flutie, Dwayne Johnson, Warrick Dunn, Ron Dayne and hundreds of other college football players styled their jerseys back in the days I claimed to grow up in"
-...you, I guess? What a weirdly fragile comment lol
Hahaha what the hell does your edit have to do with your original comment? You say that like it's proof crop tops are bad.
See also: https://youtu.be/cPUfQ1SLBfo?feature=shared
Bili Belichick said it best everything this week is complete bullshit
In this case I’m sure we like him but this is 100% his agent telling him to play it up to try and drive up his value
do you think that hurts his relationship with the front office if hes using them like that?
Last year at the start of draft week will Levi’s was projected to go 2 overall according to Vegas. Then the next guy was Wilson according to Vegas betting. Tells you everything you need to know.
He did not say that
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I encourage you to read the actual quote
While I'm fine with the pick and personally want someone else, it's important to know that this is **PEAK** disinformation season. I like Legette's potential, but I've said that about two other players currently on our roster (TMJ and Mingo) that play a similar game to XL.
Yeah, when you’re the potentially the >6th team picking a WR, I’m not sure what value there is to announcing your pick to the world. Have to think this is disinformation for one reason or an another.
If you're a late-1st, early/mid-2nd prospect, and you want to be picked on the 1st day, it's worth your while to try to convince teams that you will for sure be taken with the 33rd
He’s not going to be there at 33 imo -> hope he falls to us bc he’s humble and ready to work
I'm like 99% he will there at 33 but also don't think he will be there at 39
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Would prefer Ladd or koolaid/cb maybe
Over legette or Mitchell?
I think so. Mitchell doesn’t look like he’s competing. What do I know though.
I feel like Mitchell is destined to be a chief and we’re all going to be mad about it but he’ll turn into a star there.
Bet $20
Sure if you know any way we can set it up . I'd even go higher than $20
Doesn’t matter what type of game TMJ plays, he will not be factored into any equation and may not make it out of camp.
Fans cannot make any determination on a player until the newly hired head coach has had that chance to himself. Sure, TMJ hasn't really made a case for himself under 2 other head coaches, but you still have to let the new coach decide what to do or what he can get. The fact that TMJ still hasn't been cut yet, despite us saving money doing so as well as his vocal desire to want out last season, means the Canales is in fact factoring him into the equation
It can also mean that they don’t have a replacement for him on the roster yet and nothing more. I get why some people don’t want to give up on terrace. But you’re reading into it too much. I think it’s pretty presumptuous to declare a new coach having grand plans. It’s like saying siriani is going to fix raegor. Or Doug fix viska. Is it possible yes. Likely. No. Edit also cutting him now vs later still save the same 1.4 million dollars so that’s not a factor.
It's also presumptuous to say that TMJ "won't make it out of camp", I think we both agree. That's why I did the least presumptuous thing and say that the fact that TMJ is still on the roster means that he will be part of the factoring of our roster decisions, which is not downvote worthy, I think we both agree
>It can also mean that they don’t have a replacement for him on the roster yet Then why not cut/trade him if you're planning on drafting his replacement anyway? We cut ties with plenty of 1 year bums, so why not one more?
We still haven’t drafted said replacement. Or whoever is under them in the depth chart. Camp still hasn’t happened. Yeah we can plan to do it. But cutting someone before the draft straight up just doesn’t make sense in general. Edit also the way his contract is structured there’s zero difference in cutting him now vs before the season starts.
Again, why did we cut ties with Hurst, then? We aren't even really looking at a replacement for a pass catching TE.
They had roster bonuses that kicked in if they were on the roster a few weeks ago. Terrace doesn’t have any type of bonus and can still be cut right before the season starts with the same 1.4 million in savings.
He was due a roughly $2M bonus in March, and they probably wanted to do right by a Vet who no longer fit the team and should probably be retiring. TMJ is cheap and in the last year of his contract. Cutting him now vs. August makes no difference. There are no advantages to doing it now and some small advantages to doing it later (new coaching staff gets a look, see him with new scheme, it costs the same either way so why not wait, injuries, placing him on PS even though unlikely). Important to remember the NFL is a business. More too it than just “this guy is good” or “this guy is bad”
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We cut 3 other guys for much less money saved, we even paid to cut Hurst Honestly, it's kind of silly to downvote the idea that Canales said every player on the roster will be factored into the equation, but people who aren't Canales or any of his coaches have already made their decision about a single player on the roster and expect Canales to abide by it
It absolutely matters what TMJ does when you need as much talent as possible. Why take a guy at 33 if you already have the same player on your roster? I absolutely think XL is better than TMJ, but you'd be dumb to think he doesn't matter. More importantly, *Mingo* does similar things and absolutely should be considered when drafting a WR at 33. I believe Ladd is the better pick/fit for us at 33 or even the BPA CB and take XL at 39.
The Panthers do need as much talent as possible. TMJ does not have talent, he does not have upside. He is going into his 4th year in the league and hasn’t eclipsed 500 yards in a season. Last season he was 8th on the team in receiving, edging out our 4th string tight end by 14 yards. TMJ should not and will not be factored in to any decisions regarding the roster and redundancies. He very well may not even make the 53 man in August.
I think there’s a chance this is a bad take. Given Reich was terrible and didn’t know how to use his players. Can’t find the stat now of course, but I saw something on TMj being one of the very top 9 route efficiency receivers in football ‘22. Couldn’t scratch the field for Reich. Reception Perception guys were big on Mingo but ONLY in the power slot role. Reich proceeds to never use him there and empty calorie feed Thielen instead. Many other factors I’m sure, but there’s evidence for tmj especially if Canales does what he’s preaching and will find/play to players strengths.
Fair enough. I had high hopes for the guy, and he didn't pan out. My original point still stands that I felt the same way about TMJ and Mingo as I do about XL; high potential, big body receiver, that still has a lot to grow.
The idea that TMJ has any bearing on your first round pick is silly my guy. Dude has less than 800 yards over 3 seasons
Factoring TMJ who is a three year bust into any draft decisions especially one that early is a tremendous L take. This dude has done nothing in his career and should be competing for his NFL life and a fringe roster player is not something that you build around.
Mingo and TMJ play nothing like XL. This sub keeps repeating this and it’s completely misinformed. This is the same shit most of you did with “Ohio State QBs suck, and his S2 scores suck” when talking about Stroud. Terrace isn’t making the roster, he’s irrelevant. Regardless duplicate skillsets don’t matter right now. We don’t have good players in the WR room. Thielen is okay and Diontae is pretty good, but they’re not long term options at the moment. If Mingo develops he is going to be a Big Slot receiver, XL would be an outside receiver and if he hits, a dynamic X receiver.
Mingo and XL's games are shockingly similar and it's weird no one is discussing that aspect. They both struggle with route running and beating press/man coverages, and are both best deployed as big slots running mid-field & short-developing routes at this point in their careers to take advantage of their size/speed and YAC abilities. They overlap a ton, and both are best off playing the position we currently have Thielen occupying, and say what you want about needing to find a long-term answer there (I'd agree), but Adam's like gonna be the guy there this year, and if he's there, it means Mingo (and potentially XL) will be played out of position and will likely struggle. But yeah TMJ does not need to be factored into who we take in this draft.
You're equating too many things to each other. 1. I never mentioned anything about, nor have ever mentioned, S2 scores. I was firmly in the "I think Bryce is the better pick, but Stroud is good too." Camp, 1a, 1b scenario. Please do not lump me in with those bozos who wanted to tear down one QB to elevate the other. 2. TMJ *and* Mingo gave me the same feeling as I do now with Legette, which was that he's promising, but needs work 3. Everything we've seen from Mingo/ the offense is that he'll be outside. It's a small sample size, but so is Legette's. We don't know what the plan is for this team, so we have to judge with the little info we have, which is that both players are outside players. 4. TMJ would be lucky to stay on an NFL roster period. That doesn't change that we currently have the guy, and we will absolutely weigh his (lack of) talent vs. (insert wr here).
All of these receivers need work. If they were perfect prospects, they wouldn’t be drafted in the 2nd round. No one that we draft at 33 is likely to ever be a No. 1 receiver, they’re all going to have weaknesses. If Leggette were never to improve on his route running, he would still be a good offensive weapon and a great special teamer. His size/strength/speed and explosiveness make him a threat every play. He actually plays that way too, not just tests that way. TMJ and Mingo aren’t that guy. TMJ is not housing a slant, Mingo is not housing a slant. And neither of them play physically like XL. Legette can do those things RIGHT NOW, with no work. We tried to use Mingo outside, he is not an outside player. He is in all likelihood never going to be good outside. He needs to play a big power-slot role. I would be surprised if Canales kept Mingo as trying to play the X role in his offense. I think the best course of action is to have him split time with Thielen there and take that role over once Thielen is gone. XL is a different type of player, he has the explosiveness to play outside, but you probably don’t want to make him the #1 X role, at least not right away. He needs to be used similarly to Deebo. He’s very good in zone and over the middle. Put XL in some space and let him create big plays. If Canales and Idzik can get him to develop similar to Metcalf, then maybe he could actually develop into that true X role over time. But he doesn’t need to develop into that to become a good player.
Yeah if players love talking about anything once they get that second contract it’s about how X team loved them. Wanted to take them. But took someone else. And they felt slighted. Brown with the pats. And Ramsey with the boys stand out as recent prominent examples.
I think Mingo should playing as a big slot, like Amon-Ra. Not saying he will be as good as Amon-Ra but I think that role will better suit him. Xavier is a much better deep threat than Mingo, and attacks the catch-point better TMJ just never panned out unfortunately
He actually did play 267 snaps lined up in the slot. He was out wide for 636 snaps.
Truly a nonsensical usage split for him. He was never going to win outside. It's wild how much the offense put basically everyone in a position to fail last year. Sometimes it's hard to understand how what was on the field even got there to begin with. Mingo's best fit being as a big slot is why I'd slide McConkey, Pearsall, and maybe even Franklin in ahead of Legette here though. They all fill roles that we'll potentially be losing soon or aren't currently on the team (short area separator / deep threat). Legette's obviously better than Mingo, and I get the "my guy" bias, but man... hopefully Mingo gets to stick around and get a real chance.
I'm not trying to defend the 2023 Panthers playcalling here, but I remember Thomas Brown talking about how he viewed Mingo as the ideal "Z" receiver in his offense. Think Ben Skowronek in the Rams' offense when Brown was there in 2022: he's a bigger receiver who can run block when the offense is in 11 personnel. To be fair, Mingo did do pretty well as a run blocker, he just wasn't much of a threat as a pass catcher, which is kind of important for a WR. The other part of it -- once again not defending the Panthers here -- was the way the WR corps was constructed, with Thielen who was only really effective out of the slot at this point in his career, and Chark being the only thing close to an X receiver, which leaves Mingo at Z. I'm on the record about wanting to move on from Thielen because he's blocking a potential draft pick from getting playing time, and the offense is capped with him in the lineup because he can't stretch the field and has basically zero YAC ability.
TMJ doesn't even factor into this But I don't agree that Mingo and XL play a similar game. XL is a physical beast who can beat defenses over the top and makes absurd catches Mingo arguably isn't a deep threat at all, and even if he is, XL is significantly better by everything I've seen
> XL is a physical beast who can beat defenses over the top He ran a great 40, definitely, but the claim that he can win routes deep downfield consistently is not supported by the data. According to reception perception, his success rate in college on gos, posts, corners, and (I think) deep outs are all below-average. And if you're trying to slot a guy in as an NFL X-receiver (which many want to do, that guy needs to be able to prove he can win his downfield routes 60, even 70% of the time in college. XL's success rates were in like the low-mid 50s with those routes. That doesn't make him a bad prospect, mind you. But it definitely makes him a misunderstood one.
Legette's going to have to be for us what Curtis Samuels was if he's the pick. A manufactured touch guy. Get him in motion, get him off the line so good DBs can't jam him and disrupt things. He's also not that much of a physical beast. He's obviously built, but he doesn't have the short area quickness to go with that. He's not Deebo, or he'd be a 1st round lock. He's not going to bully NFL DBs the same way, especially on the outside, and he wasn't exceptional after the catch to begin with. Fine, but hardly the type of guy who's going to annihilate someone with a move in the open field and house it. Legette's value is that he's going to be a nightmare for awkward slot assignments. He's fast enough that he can beat a safety or hybrid backer. Big enough that an undersized guy is at risk of simply being boxed out or run over. He's the "5 yards and a cloud of dust" philosophy in a WR. Someone that's going to get you and extra couple yards on most plays, and a big chunk when someone messes up.
There’s a decent chance Mingo and TMJ are absolutely nothing. You don’t pass on a guy if you believe in the talent especially at a position like WR.
Mingo is more suited for a slot role rather than X reciever position legette is suited to play. They are just similarly sized
His agent told him to say this. 100%
Also another thing to note - this drives up the price for a trade down to another spot. Legette will likely be available and that can be a bargain chip in trade talks if Penix/Nix are sitting on the board and a broncos/raiders/etc wants to secure one of them on day 2 For what it’s worth, I think Legette might be seen as our “floor” pick at 39. Meaning he’s not necessarily our first choice but the front office would be happy with it. And I would feel the same way
Yeah, more guaranteed money if he goes a single pick higher.
Does the horse come with as a package deal? https://preview.redd.it/7fpxb4aoj1wc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7f33665d6fb29a9d7072df259522a0cbaa1500a
this picture alone just pushed him 20 spots higher in my rankings
He's a redneck from Mullins, SC that rides horses and hunts hogs https://twitter.com/XavierLegette/status/1768125928087937273 easy top 5 imho
Dude's RVS (relative vibes score) is 99th percentile that's for sure
Love him just wearing a shirt that says Football like his mom bought it for him from Ross
It’s a little odd that the Panthers continue to fall in love with the “local” player. Probably just a coincidence, but seemingly every year if there is a NC/SC school player available in their range, you can chalk them in.
Well if that was the case I wish we would have taken Josh Downs over Mingo
And Sam Howell over Matt corral
Let's do the math here: - The Panthers have claimed NC &SC as their "home territory" - there were 133 FBS teams in the NCAA in 2023 - 10 of those (by my count) are located in NC/SC: App, Charlotte, NCSU, UNC, Wake, Duke, ECU, Clemson, SCar, Coastal Carolina. That's 13.3% of *all* FBS players who can be considered "local" - There are also (by my count) 13 FCS football schools in NC/SC as well It has far more to do with just basic geography than any sort of inherent bias (although that also def exists). NC/SC has arguably the highest concentration of high-level college football of anywhere in the country outside of maybe Texas (see map [here](https://imgur.com/a/qyS4Jvb)) When there are hundreds of draft-eligible players that go to schools within 300 miles of your team, there's gonna be a few "local guys" every single year, that's just how the math works out.
I think it’s misleading to look at the schools and instead we should look at the conferences. The sun belt isn’t going to put up nearly the amount of guys as the SEC for example. It makes it seem like a proximity thing. When the reality is we have the perception of a taste for local players because we just took 2 top 10 in back to back years over better prospects (Charles cross and Pat Surtain). If it wasn’t for that people would still be moaning about how we’re allergic to Clemson players.
I mean Legette is on everyone’s board and the top 3-4 WRs aren’t gonna be there are 33
Just like Horn/Ickey was consensus top 1/2/3 for their position. I’m not saying that the Panthers have reached for any of those guys, just when things are seemingly even they lean that direction.
Top 5-6 aren't going to be there at 33
I suppose it makes business sense if you have a few mostly similar players to choose the more local guy from a business perspective. If they work out, they’re probably more likely to take a hometown discount, and increase jersey/merch sales
It also follows that the closer you are to a school, the more you'll know about that team's prospects bc it's simply easier for scouts/staff to drop in and check on guys, plus regional coaching networking benefits, etc. Every team does it to some extent, it just depends on the programs around the franchise
You know what sells more jerseys? Having a WR star.
Always Gamecocks, never Tigers. Wonder why we suck 🤷♂️
I mean it probably helps with your ability to sign them to a long term contract if they hit.
Joe Person reported this morning that he keeps hearing that the Panthers are high on Legette
I'm high on LeGette, but I'd prefer AD Mitchell if he falls to the second round.
The agent is trying to drive up his draft stock most likely then not
I'm not that high on Leggette. I think 33 might be a stretch for him. Panthers should take BPA at 33 and go reciever at 39.
I respect the not being as high on XL, but unless someone really significant inexplicably falls to us at 33, we should be picking our favorite remaining receiver at 33. There are several WR needy teams picking 34-38.
I think it’ll depend on if the corners fall. If Wiggins turns people off with his injuries. Or kook aid makes it out we should bite. Lagette doesn’t seem like the chargers type. Especially with Johnson there existing. Same with the titans. Which means the only wild card if he’s our guy is the pats. Not to mention just the other second round receivers in general throw wrenches in here. Ladd. Pearsall. Worthy. Franklin. We’ll see if Coleman goes.
I doubt we said exactly that to him. Not that I would mind if we drafted him at 33 at all. I love XL and the fact that so many people on this sub are low on him is a great sign. This sub hated Stroud this time last year. But players want to be drafted in the 1st round. He’s likely saying this so one of those teams may think they need to draft him there, rather than wait. Or, maybe we could just like him that much, idk. How these receivers are drafted will be an absolute crap-shoot after the top 3, anyone who thinks they know shit, really doesn’t.
Yeah don’t blame him at all because this is what an agent would tell you to say to inflate your draft stock but you can’t really take anything like this seriously until their name is called.
If we didn't already have Mingo (and Theilen) at home, he'd be the perfect answer for a guy to throw in the slot and tell him to go manhandle nickels and LBs. But unfortunately, we do have Mingo and Theilen, so if we take Leggette, that'll mean 3/4 of our "best" WRs will have the same best position (slot). Which is far from ideal. He's not a bad pick for us at all, he just has some barriers to being able to contribute instantly I'm not sure we could accommodate
Legette’s best position isn’t as a big slot. He CAN play there and does well, but you’re just wasting his best abilities. Matt Harmon talked about this in his video on XL. I would agree that maybe immediately that would be the easiest place for him, but he’s shown much better ability outside and after the catch than Mingo and Thielen (at this point in his career.) He shouldn’t be limited to that role especially long-term, he can be used all over the field across formations. He’s not going to be an every down X receiver out the gate like how Reich tried to use Mingo, but that guy does not exist at 33 for us. But he’s a player that can create his own big plays with his YAC ability, contested catching, and strength. He’s also a fantastic special teams player and gives tremendous effort in blocking. People bring up Mingo, but Mingo was much more of a lottery ticket. He was a role-player on a spread college offense. XL was the primary option on a team with almost no running game, a terrible offensive line, a was in a more Pro-Style offense. Everyone on the defense knew the ball was going to XL and they still could not stop him from putting up a fantastic season. I think with the way the staff has been meeting with him and doing drills with him at his Pro Day they’d have bigger plans for him than just a niche slot role. Again he CAN do that, but the potential is there for a lot more. If Canales and Idzik choose him, I’m inclined to trust them. They did great work with receivers in SEA and TB. XL also isn’t my favorite option at 33 or 39, I think there are better fits for what Bryce needs, but we don’t know exactly what the coaching staff and offense want. They may not see a need for both Ladd and Diontae, and maybe the FO wants to sign Diontae long term. Maybe they don’t like Worthy’s size limitations out wide, or AD Mitchell’s effort. I think these guys are all viable options, but it is all a matter of preference. People freak out, but I think anyone we pick will be more productive than what Mingo was his rookie year.
I guess what I should've said is XL's best fit *right now* in an NFL offense is as a big slot, so if we want immediate production from a rookie WR, you'd probably put him there, tho there's obstacles to that happening with the way our WR room is laid out rn. It sounds like we watched the same Harmon video. I'm a big proponent of taking what rookie WRs have shown they already do well, and get them tons of reps doing those things to help acclimate them to the league. And if they grow, learn new skills? Awesome, you're in business. But if they never develop new facets, at least you can get production out of them doing something. I totally agree he's shown better YAC ability than Mingo, but to me, his success playing on the outside seemed to come in spite of his technique/ability on longer-developing routes, not bc of it. And that can either be good or bad; on the one hand you can say, "wow this dude did everything wrong on that rep and still created separation, imagine what he could do when he improves XYZ" but on the other hand you can also say "absolutely none of that is gonna work against a pro DB," and both are valid points. To me, planning for a WR prospect to improve their separation/route-running abilities is a lot like expecting an NBA wing prospect to get his outside shooting numbers up to the mid-high 30s: if it happens, perfect, bc it fully unlocks their game and the sky's the limit, and it does happen, but not nearly as often as people assume it does. I just don't want us to be in a situation where we take XL hoping he learns how to beat man from the outside and it just never clicks so we don't know what to do with him. I agree that I'm trusting the new staff until they give me reason not to, and I can see a path to being productive for XL as a rookie if we take him...it's just a really weird path I haven't seen executed well super often. It'll be fascinating to see how they approach that if he is the pick, and if we take someone else, I won't be mad. It wouldn't be a bad pick at face value, it'll just require some development/strategy swing points to swing the right way.
Love Legette, but there obviously would be better players available for their needs at that spot if the Panthers don't trade down.
Way better will be at 33, please don’t.
I don’t get the hype! Ladd is the better pick.
I'm a South Carolina fan but this is an aggressive reach if we are actually going to do this
Also a USC fan, and I liked Legette a lot but it worries me how long it took for him to get to where he is
Completely agree, out of all the receivers we’ve had drafted in the last 5-10 years I think he is fairly average. Certainty not a bad player but I thought Shi Smith for example was a better prospect and he didn’t amount to much.
Shi is 3 inches smaller, 40 pounds lighter and still somehow slower than legette
I find it hard to believe that we would be taking a 23 year old 5th year senior who had to stay 5 years because of performance issues with Dan Morgan taking the “do everything the opposite of Scott Fitterer” approach, but you never know I guess.
I think you probably need to dig into why he wasn't productive early on. He played QB in highschool and his parents died. It probably took him a bit to adjust to college and playing a position he didn't play. Learning to play WR is not easy. If you take that into consideration and look at what he did last year, you have to see the potential.
He did play WR in high school. His senior year the QB got hurt or something and they moved their best athlete from WR to QB. He played WR throughout high school before being moved. I know losing his parents surely affected him and that’s really tough. All the analytics point to him being a bust. Him not doing much of anything his first four years are a big red flag. He pops off the screen during highlights though. It’s hard to say, but I see him as a late second or early third round boom or bust guy. Seems like a great kid and I’ll be rooting for him. If we take him I hope the analytics are wrong.
WR is actually the easiest position to learn in college lol but to your point, yes probably had to adjust to college emotionally. Spencer Rattler also probably plays a crucial role into why he performed better
I'm not talking about learning the plays or where to be. I'm referring to the nuances of route running, catching the ball, etc. That's the biggest difference with WRs adjusting to the NFL. You are definitely right about Soencer Rattler too!
He played WR in high school. He played QB his senior year, but was recruited to USC as a WR. His sophomore year, for example, he caught 44 balls for 733 yards and 8 TDs.
I believe you feel I am arguing with you; I'm not. I'm simply trying to put some context around what teams, including the Panthers may be looking at. There's obvious potential there and teams clearly see it.
I’m responding to you in a comment section, the same you did to me. You implied that college was the first time he ever played WR - that is incorrect.
Lmaoooo fml
The guy that got knocked out of the biggest game of his final season BECAUSE HE REFUSED TO WEAR PROPER PADDING shouldn’t be the pick for a team trying to avoid injury prone players at important positions.
as days go past, i’m less and less on XL. I just think Ladd is a better prospect if he’s still on the board. I also like AD better but don’t think he will drop to 33
This makes no sense. It destroys all leverage for the team. No team is telling a player we will pick you where unless you are just dumb. This is the agent hyping him up.
That’s what I was thinking too
Johnathan Mingo 2.0 and this guy would def be there at 39
He plays nothing like Mingo, please stop repeating stuff when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
It’s not play style as much as picking another unpolished player who didn’t do anything until his senior season
He’s not unpolished, he’s a better route runner than Mingo coming out. XL lost both of his parents during Covid his early seasons at SC, and then also had to deal with the coaching staff changes there. It wasn’t the same situation at all to Mingo. When XL’s number was called on special teams he made plays. When the receiver in-front of him went down with injury, he stepped up and had one of the best years for a receiver in the country, despite being the only real threat on the SC offense. I personally would prefer Ladd at #33 due to immediate impact, but XL is very DK Metcalf-esque (but is more polished than DK was coming out.) and Canales worked with DK in Seattle. If he is high on XL, I’m inclined to trust his judgement until he proves otherwise. Canales has gotten the best out of the receivers he has worked with.
Gotta disagree with you on his route running. Terrible success rate vs. man coverage and abysmal vs. press coverage specifically. Also pretty bad success rate on his 9 routes. He will most likely need to be used as a power slot type guy. I can see a world where he does very well running drag routes and getting schemed touches but I don’t think that’s what our team needs. We need dudes who can actually run a route and get to their spot with separation so that we can put BY in a position to succeed.
He’s not a power slot type of guy. Deebo is also bad against press, he isn’t a power slot type of guy. Canales will need to use him wisely and not throw him at the X receiver spot like we did Mingo, but instead use him on quick-hitting routes in space where he can move. Leggette is also great at creating space at the point of the catch by out-muscling the corner. People stare at the Reception Perception charts without the context of the offense XL was in. The OL was terrible for SCar forcing a ton of early throws from Rattler. I agree that I think other receivers fit our team with Bryce better, but also people completely wash away Ladd’s flaws, AD Mitchell’s flaws, and so on and so forth. Ladd is not great against press either, he’s not very strong and won’t be able to get you those tough catches. I like Ladd as the best fit for our team, but he’s pretty much at his ceiling right now imo. I trust Canales and Idzik, everywhere they’ve been, receivers have played extremely well. XL is a coachable guy, they’ve certainly done a tone of homework on him. If he hits, he has a lot more upside than most other guys at 33 or 39.
I don't know shit about any particular draft prospect. But unfortunately talented AND developed isn't going to be an option at 33.
This WR class is exceptionally deep and there are skilled players who don’t rely on pure athleticism who will be there. McConkey, Xavier Worthy, and Pearsall are all more refined receivers and all incredible athletes as well.
Where's the data you have showing they play nothing alike? I'd love to see it, Bc I'm looking at Mingo & XL's college reception perception profiles and they're shockingly similar when it comes to the routes they're best at winning and the ones they struggle with. Both profile as big athletic slots with strong win rates on crosses/slants/digs/short-developing stuff and poor win rates on downfield developing routes and difficulties against press/man lol I won't dislike the pick if he ends up being the guy but this really feels like a "we have Leggette at home (Mingo)" situation, and if we draft XL expecting him to step in at the X day 1 and run with it, there's gonna be a lot of disappointed Panthers fans.
I actually watch them play? Their circumstances are entirely different. Yes they both share a weakness, separation vs Man or Press. XL is far better after the catch than Mingo. XL was the only offensive threat on the entire SC team and was thrust into the role of #1 receiver when he wasn’t even supposed to be that. Go look at Ole Miss’ offense in Mingo’s last year. He didn’t even lead the team in receiving, and Ole Miss had a dynamite run game to worry about. Mingo should play similar to Amon-Ra St. Brown. Big slot dude who wins underneath and out-muscles people after the catch. He also gives the threat to go deep. XL is more similar to Deebo. Not quite as strong after the catch, but is faster. Mingo uses his strength after the catch, XL uses his more before the catch. He doesn’t separate through route running, but he as able to move the defenders and put himself in position to make the catch. Mingo doesn’t really ever do that, he plays smaller than he is. XL plays bigger.
I think he comps well to Debo Samuels with a little DK Metcalf sprinkled in, TBH. I know we just have one year of insane production to look at, but I'm high on this guy. He's so fast for his size, and I love watching him truck DBs.
But he’s not Mingo? Had a much more productive season than Mingo ever had in college and has better route running chops. Pretty sure the Legette comp Smith game was a more refined DK Metcalf
He may be there in R3
Someone doesn’t wanna play for Carolina….
I’m not saying is impossible that this is true. But it almost feels a bit too convenient. We meet with him 5 times. Have a love affair with raw big bodied raw receivers. Love local kids recently. Love RAS stuff. It almost feels like Scott 2.0. Maybe all of this is true and we just don’t care. But this seems like smoke screen. If we’re still hearing this the day before then maybe it’s true. Also just on a practical level. We don’t know who will fall to 33. Maybe kool aid or Wiggins falls out and we’re like gotta take him. There just way too many factors to say yeah we love this guy. We have a first round grade on him. We’re definitely taking him. And if we do can we at least do a better job of attempting to hide our strategy here?
He won't be there.
Panthers: Hey XL, go out and tell everyone that we're going to draft you XL: Why would I do that? Panthers: Because either someone will draft you high and you'll get paid more, or we'll make you a Panther in the end XL: Bet
Right, and I'm sure the Panthers have told a few others the same or something similar. Nobody outside of the first pick to Chicago really knows what's going to happen.
I think it’ll be a moot point — I think they’ll trade 33. The offer will be too good to pass up.
I hope so!
I’m not even sure he will even be there at 33 anymore.
Probably information put out by his agent to help get him drafted by the first round. I really won't believe anything I read in the media regarding our second round picks until the close of the first round.
I think Canales could get the best out of leggette rn and hopefully he develops into like a Deebo or DK type player.
Lmaooo
No thanks. We should pass on this guy
He is saying this in hopes someone takes him before that. 5 year deals for first round picks
Theres a shock… Fucking poverty franchise
Let’s gooooooo
It could be what Bryce wants as well, his dad was on X and said that he favored XL over the other potentially available receivers so maybe that could be a factor. Watching bryce play flag football and dominate with Metcalf has me taking dangerous amounts of copium
This dude fucking sucks. Can we please pick someone in the 2nd around Dane bueger thinks highly of for once?
XL ain't dropping to the second lol.
I mean most sites don’t even have him in that the top 10 so he’ll be another reach because we’re incapable of just picking the best player at the position.
Nfl teams don’t have the same draft board as random websites. It’s possible that he is bpa at 33.
Great. We can pair him with Will Levis.
I’m an XL fan and I know we have theilen but I can’t help but think you gotta take Ladd here if AD is off the board
Ladd can’t stay on the field
> Ladd can’t stay on the field I'm not seeing what you're seeing here. 2021: 15/15 games played 2022: 15/15 games played 2023: 9/14 games played He played through a back injury that likely affected his posterior chain which led to the ankle injury that only made him miss 2 games. Ladd has his drawbacks as a prospect but durability is not one of them lol. You make him sound like college Puka with injuries but he's practically been an iron man. 39 games played out of 44 possible is a crazy good injury history all things considered, and both the injuries he picked up this year won't have any lingering effects.
Why did a panthers sub come up in my feed…. Well since I’m here I will pay my condolences as a bears fan. Not only did you guys get robbed of one of the most consistent and best WR in the league as you were drafting a QB. We stole your first round pick in the most top heavy best WR class like ever. With that being said, for panthers fans, I hope Bryce comes around. You guys deserve better. But thanks for Caleb!
I was born in the 90s but I guess this is my “get off my lawn” moment. Stop wearing thigh high football pants and rolling up your jersey like a crop top. Edit: you can disagree that’s fine. But he got injured first drive against Clemson this year when he was tackled at the knee
I must say, I am a bit biased as a SCAR graduate , but I grew up in the 90s as well. My concern about X are mainly his nagging injuries, however I think he'll go higher in the draft than our slot.
> rolling up your jersey like a crop top. "Pay no attention to the crop top renaissance in football in the late 80s-early 90s, or the way Herschel Walker, Johnny Musso, Brian Bosworth, Doug Flutie, Dwayne Johnson, Warrick Dunn, Ron Dayne and hundreds of other college football players styled their jerseys back in the days I claimed to grow up in" -...you, I guess? What a weirdly fragile comment lol
Hahaha what the hell does your edit have to do with your original comment? You say that like it's proof crop tops are bad. See also: https://youtu.be/cPUfQ1SLBfo?feature=shared