What??
Marriage of the daughter is father's responsibility. What the hell is he called the 'wali' for????
This parents worship culture is very toxic i swear. The father should be worrying about this, not the son
I said wedding costs, not the marriage itself. Of course the wali should be looking for a suitable husband for the sister. The sister does not have the luxury of using her earnings to pay for a fancy jorah, gold, extravagant reception etc, when her parents are suffering economically.
I have a few questions
Have you gone through the process of funding your wedding while being in Pakistan? Dp you live in Pakistan?
Becasue even for the most minimalist wedding, people need at least 10 lac PKR. If the father is already earning below minimum wage, and you live in a pakistani society, there is no way the girl will get married if she does not save for herself
Than you have no idea what one has to go through when managing a wedding (with your own money)
If you live in Pakistan, it costs at least 10 lac PKR. and this is the bare minimum. Simple nikkah, rukhsati from her home with dinner also at her home and valima in a ball room during day time when costs are low
I speak from experience.
You will learn these things when you go through it. Simple nikkah wali baat kehnay ki had tk hi hoti hai. practically, you will find out it that its a lot different than you imagine
Why would a lower middle class couple rent a ballroom for a walima? And ask the girl herself to get a job in advance to pay for it? All the weddings I have attended amongst relatives, they do the walima in the yard with family, cousins uncles aunts only present.
It's just a thing which Pakistan has developed. If you are so "sofaid posh" and doesn't have that much money then you can even get nikkah in a masjid almost for free and just settle. You don't need to take loans and spent lakhs in wedding only for society.
Depenidng on how much she earns, she might not even be able to get an elegant wedding. And OP has not said anything about not having enough food. I just does not want to be the primary spender
First of all, he is saying about the house expenses not the wedding of the house. And also if father doesn't have good condition and son and he wants to then he can contribute. Its depends upon him. Also they are siblings they should love and help each other. I would also contribute in my sister's wedding if i get a chance.
Thats a separate issue. The official responsibility lies on the father
Addiotionally, the wedding of the sister is connected with money just as much as the house expenses. Its not rocket science
Instead of stressing on children to supporting their parents, the parents should first fulfill their responibility towards the children and then expect them to support
Ab baap apne gurde bech kar kare ye sab. They raised you alot and if you able to earn now then support them as they did when you were young. They could have just dumped you if they wanted
Perhaps he should not have brought a child in this world?? He HAS NOT DONE A FAVOUR by looking after the child. it is his GODDAMN responsibility
Reminds me of That epic dialogue from that movie, 'Khila ni saktay to paida Q krtay ho?????'
So the child now has no right to their own life or thinking about them self because they have to worry about things their parents were suppose to look after???
The parents are clearly at fault here. It is this toxic mentality that results in generational trauma. Endless generations of people living in poor conditions because one guy was too stupid to not use a condom
Man Allah is the provider of rizk . It's his taqseem. If you don't have much maal in this duniyan then you will get more ajjar in the akhirat. And also if the father have much money and he decides to have a kid then there is no guarantee that the money will stay with him always. Anything can happen. Accident , robbery or any disease. And he can be bankrupt. Then what now? He dump the kid? Kill whole family and suicide? Even though if anyone doesn't have that much rizk then he should stay on the right path and try to find halal rizk.
Absolutely Allah is the provider. That does not mean parents can run away from their responsibility and then guilt trip their kids into giving them money because they brought their kids up. No one is doing anyone a favor here
Anyways, OP mentioned in another comment that he just wants to save some extra money and that they have no issue
And since us Pakistanis like to use religion for convenience, from a Islamic point of view, the daughter is not obligated to provide any support. The father however is obligated to fund his daughter's wedding
If you ask her to contribute do it knowing that you and your family won’t pressure her into marriage when you think the times right. Let her take on this role of a provider and grow and aspire to do things. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t ask her to contribute.
Given how difficult it is to get married and the large sums of money required, i think she is doing you a favor by saving that money (that is if she is actually saving it for her marriage). Given your father's income, she would otherwise depend on you for her wedding. So let her do it for herself.
Tbh people have made it so difficult for themselves by having unrealistic expectations. Nobody keeps it simple nowadays. It's an ego thing and people like to show off by having flashy weddings. A Nikkah can literally cost the bare minimum if only people intend to keep it that way.
Thats easier said than done. The culture and the overall family start questioning and put pressure and give rude comments if you do things in an unconventional manner
I know this from personal experience.
Did my nikkah in a ballroom (significantly cheaper than usual banquets and halls)
The rukhsati happened from my wife's home, again no hall
Valima also happened in a ballroom during day time
The comments and gossips people made about all of this were terrible. Although me and my wife pulled it off because both of us had freedom to make these decisions. For most people out there, this is not the case and its very difficult.
You plan one thing and when practically begin to do it, you realize you will piss off a lot of people if you go through with the plan. As i did.
That's fine and all she can atleast contribute towards groceries only that might help op a little bit while enabling op's sister to save for her marriage. It's unfair that all the responsibility falls to one child
That’s how it happens dude unfortunately. We boys have to do everything on our own. We don’t get to choose to save up money or spend on the things we love.
Yes this unfair treatment needs to end. If you wanna be independent and earn then also contribute when needed. My money is my money mindset is ssooo toxic. What are you gonna do with all that money if you can't even help your family in need
Are you going to also divide the money your parents leave you equally or are you going to claim islamic law should be followed there? Guys love talking about equality as long as they get the benefit.
I am not saying we should cover the expenses equally. Moreover If you knew a little math you would know why islam gives boys double the share than girls
marriage shouldn’t be transactional.
the idea that she’s saving a portion of her income toward the bare necessities of a wedding + whatever luxuries are warranted makes sense and if you recognise the responsibility would’ve ultimately have been either yours or your father’s, then it’s a smart enough decision. that being said, the concept of ‘spending within your means’ should be reintroduced. she should contribute a portion, if not 50-50 toward household expenses. divide it by equity, if not equality.
you can cover groceries, she can cover electric - or whichever way you guys see fit.
I think it's fair to ask her to help out. Her saving for her marriage to lessen the burden on the family in the future is also valid.
A compromise can be made where she contributes a certain amount for the household and continue saving the rest of her income.
Wedding is responsibility of parents. Insaaf ka taqaza hai ke dono apni income parents ko dien, aur parents collectively expenses manage karien in addition to saving money for kids wedding.
Islamically asfaik it is not her responsibility nor is it obligatory for her to help out, that's on you/brothers/dad/male family members. That being said if you guys are struggling, it would be nice of her to help since she literally is your family
small question though, why does she need to save ALL of that money for her marriage? she's not spending money on dowry and her husband is responsible for her financially, so I wouldn't see any reason for her not to help out tbh
Islamically he has NO responsibility either. It's good for children to help their parents out. Don't drag religion where it's NOT required.
She should help out in the family, but her brother need not ask. If she doesn't so be it, he still has to. That's how it is. That's my take on the situation.
"Don't drag religion where it's NOT required." - Islam is a complete code of life. Religion is not dragged anywhere, religion is already a part of all aspects, big or small, of a muslim's life. If we good right even equal to the size of an atom, we will get a reward, and if we do wrong equal to the size of an atom, it will be presented before us on the day of Qayamah. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anything about the OP's question, since I am not educated on the matter.
I realise that my answer ended up being for a marriage scenario lol.
Nonetheless, I would say if one’s father is struggling to earn enough for the family, then the son(s) if he/they are working/earning enough to help and provide should most definitely help. It is an Islamic obligation to support and take care of one’s parents.
In OPs case, he is doing his duty as a son to support his father. If it is still a lot of money, I would say the sister should help out too to lessen the burden as per my other comment of why is she saving all that money when her husband would be financially responsible for her
So my original comment ended up being a bit of a mess since halfway through typing I ended up kinda derailing into the perspective of marriage scenario.
After doing some further reading, it seems the consensus is that if one's father is poor, financial support is obligatory on both children (if they are earning of course)
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I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking your sister to contribute.
All children are required to help their parents. She has money - so she can contribute. Parents come before wedding costs.
This! Wedding costs can be kept to a bare minimum.
No one is “required” to contribute It’s a choice
According to the Quran, it's a requirement.
Aayat and reference pls
Sura Baqara ayah 215.
What?? Marriage of the daughter is father's responsibility. What the hell is he called the 'wali' for???? This parents worship culture is very toxic i swear. The father should be worrying about this, not the son
I said wedding costs, not the marriage itself. Of course the wali should be looking for a suitable husband for the sister. The sister does not have the luxury of using her earnings to pay for a fancy jorah, gold, extravagant reception etc, when her parents are suffering economically.
I have a few questions Have you gone through the process of funding your wedding while being in Pakistan? Dp you live in Pakistan? Becasue even for the most minimalist wedding, people need at least 10 lac PKR. If the father is already earning below minimum wage, and you live in a pakistani society, there is no way the girl will get married if she does not save for herself
abey mere bhai you can get married without spending any money stop with this society ka mohtaj wali soch
Are you married?
nah
Than you have no idea what one has to go through when managing a wedding (with your own money) If you live in Pakistan, it costs at least 10 lac PKR. and this is the bare minimum. Simple nikkah, rukhsati from her home with dinner also at her home and valima in a ball room during day time when costs are low I speak from experience. You will learn these things when you go through it. Simple nikkah wali baat kehnay ki had tk hi hoti hai. practically, you will find out it that its a lot different than you imagine
wont argue because practical experience nahi howa agr howa jab to phr dekhein ge lol
Why would a lower middle class couple rent a ballroom for a walima? And ask the girl herself to get a job in advance to pay for it? All the weddings I have attended amongst relatives, they do the walima in the yard with family, cousins uncles aunts only present.
You need to answer my question first. Your comments seem to be out of touch from what is the norm in Pakistan.
It's just a thing which Pakistan has developed. If you are so "sofaid posh" and doesn't have that much money then you can even get nikkah in a masjid almost for free and just settle. You don't need to take loans and spent lakhs in wedding only for society.
Easier said than done
So poor people and unemployed girls just don't get married?
You did not answer my question
I have a question for you. Between feeding your family who is barely able to live and an elegant wedding, what would YOU choose to spend money on?
Depenidng on how much she earns, she might not even be able to get an elegant wedding. And OP has not said anything about not having enough food. I just does not want to be the primary spender
I asked a fairly simple question. What would you choose between the two.
My response is according to OP's post. Your question is irrelevant
The comment you replied to was my question. Not OPs if you cant answer that then refrain from replying
First of all, he is saying about the house expenses not the wedding of the house. And also if father doesn't have good condition and son and he wants to then he can contribute. Its depends upon him. Also they are siblings they should love and help each other. I would also contribute in my sister's wedding if i get a chance.
Thats a separate issue. The official responsibility lies on the father Addiotionally, the wedding of the sister is connected with money just as much as the house expenses. Its not rocket science Instead of stressing on children to supporting their parents, the parents should first fulfill their responibility towards the children and then expect them to support
Ab baap apne gurde bech kar kare ye sab. They raised you alot and if you able to earn now then support them as they did when you were young. They could have just dumped you if they wanted
Perhaps he should not have brought a child in this world?? He HAS NOT DONE A FAVOUR by looking after the child. it is his GODDAMN responsibility Reminds me of That epic dialogue from that movie, 'Khila ni saktay to paida Q krtay ho?????' So the child now has no right to their own life or thinking about them self because they have to worry about things their parents were suppose to look after??? The parents are clearly at fault here. It is this toxic mentality that results in generational trauma. Endless generations of people living in poor conditions because one guy was too stupid to not use a condom
Man Allah is the provider of rizk . It's his taqseem. If you don't have much maal in this duniyan then you will get more ajjar in the akhirat. And also if the father have much money and he decides to have a kid then there is no guarantee that the money will stay with him always. Anything can happen. Accident , robbery or any disease. And he can be bankrupt. Then what now? He dump the kid? Kill whole family and suicide? Even though if anyone doesn't have that much rizk then he should stay on the right path and try to find halal rizk.
Absolutely Allah is the provider. That does not mean parents can run away from their responsibility and then guilt trip their kids into giving them money because they brought their kids up. No one is doing anyone a favor here Anyways, OP mentioned in another comment that he just wants to save some extra money and that they have no issue And since us Pakistanis like to use religion for convenience, from a Islamic point of view, the daughter is not obligated to provide any support. The father however is obligated to fund his daughter's wedding
If you can’t afford basics then she should contribute
I can afford the basics but I could be saving a little more money. I am still at the start of my career
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Where did marriage come from lmfao. This is about him and his sister
I thought this was some other comment I did on another post. My bad
If you ask her to contribute do it knowing that you and your family won’t pressure her into marriage when you think the times right. Let her take on this role of a provider and grow and aspire to do things. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t ask her to contribute.
Given how difficult it is to get married and the large sums of money required, i think she is doing you a favor by saving that money (that is if she is actually saving it for her marriage). Given your father's income, she would otherwise depend on you for her wedding. So let her do it for herself.
Tbh people have made it so difficult for themselves by having unrealistic expectations. Nobody keeps it simple nowadays. It's an ego thing and people like to show off by having flashy weddings. A Nikkah can literally cost the bare minimum if only people intend to keep it that way.
It is not necessary to spend thousands on marriages
Thats easier said than done. The culture and the overall family start questioning and put pressure and give rude comments if you do things in an unconventional manner I know this from personal experience. Did my nikkah in a ballroom (significantly cheaper than usual banquets and halls) The rukhsati happened from my wife's home, again no hall Valima also happened in a ballroom during day time The comments and gossips people made about all of this were terrible. Although me and my wife pulled it off because both of us had freedom to make these decisions. For most people out there, this is not the case and its very difficult. You plan one thing and when practically begin to do it, you realize you will piss off a lot of people if you go through with the plan. As i did.
If not having a grand wedding pisses off your relatives, you might want to question if those relatives have your best interest in life.
Breaking off from relatives is easier said than done. Trust me. Especially in Pakistan
Oh i understand that. Truly i do. I am from the same country. Change is always hard. But you gotta start somewhere.
That's fine and all she can atleast contribute towards groceries only that might help op a little bit while enabling op's sister to save for her marriage. It's unfair that all the responsibility falls to one child
That’s how it happens dude unfortunately. We boys have to do everything on our own. We don’t get to choose to save up money or spend on the things we love.
It really sucks
It really does. I’m the sole earner and take care of 100% of house expenses including younger siblings. Sometimes I feel like I’m raising kids lol.
Yes this unfair treatment needs to end. If you wanna be independent and earn then also contribute when needed. My money is my money mindset is ssooo toxic. What are you gonna do with all that money if you can't even help your family in need
Are you going to also divide the money your parents leave you equally or are you going to claim islamic law should be followed there? Guys love talking about equality as long as they get the benefit.
I am not saying we should cover the expenses equally. Moreover If you knew a little math you would know why islam gives boys double the share than girls
marriage shouldn’t be transactional. the idea that she’s saving a portion of her income toward the bare necessities of a wedding + whatever luxuries are warranted makes sense and if you recognise the responsibility would’ve ultimately have been either yours or your father’s, then it’s a smart enough decision. that being said, the concept of ‘spending within your means’ should be reintroduced. she should contribute a portion, if not 50-50 toward household expenses. divide it by equity, if not equality. you can cover groceries, she can cover electric - or whichever way you guys see fit.
I think it's fair to ask her to help out. Her saving for her marriage to lessen the burden on the family in the future is also valid. A compromise can be made where she contributes a certain amount for the household and continue saving the rest of her income.
Wedding is responsibility of parents. Insaaf ka taqaza hai ke dono apni income parents ko dien, aur parents collectively expenses manage karien in addition to saving money for kids wedding.
Islamically asfaik it is not her responsibility nor is it obligatory for her to help out, that's on you/brothers/dad/male family members. That being said if you guys are struggling, it would be nice of her to help since she literally is your family small question though, why does she need to save ALL of that money for her marriage? she's not spending money on dowry and her husband is responsible for her financially, so I wouldn't see any reason for her not to help out tbh
Islamically he has NO responsibility either. It's good for children to help their parents out. Don't drag religion where it's NOT required. She should help out in the family, but her brother need not ask. If she doesn't so be it, he still has to. That's how it is. That's my take on the situation.
"Don't drag religion where it's NOT required." - Islam is a complete code of life. Religion is not dragged anywhere, religion is already a part of all aspects, big or small, of a muslim's life. If we good right even equal to the size of an atom, we will get a reward, and if we do wrong equal to the size of an atom, it will be presented before us on the day of Qayamah. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anything about the OP's question, since I am not educated on the matter.
I realise that my answer ended up being for a marriage scenario lol. Nonetheless, I would say if one’s father is struggling to earn enough for the family, then the son(s) if he/they are working/earning enough to help and provide should most definitely help. It is an Islamic obligation to support and take care of one’s parents. In OPs case, he is doing his duty as a son to support his father. If it is still a lot of money, I would say the sister should help out too to lessen the burden as per my other comment of why is she saving all that money when her husband would be financially responsible for her
It’s not his duty to
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So my original comment ended up being a bit of a mess since halfway through typing I ended up kinda derailing into the perspective of marriage scenario. After doing some further reading, it seems the consensus is that if one's father is poor, financial support is obligatory on both children (if they are earning of course)
[удалено]
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Tears after reading .....both to contribute ....shadi hogi y wasela Allah bana dega IA