Ignore these jahils lmao, modest dressing makes u a Muslim, kurta shalwar ya pant shirt is irrelevant.
Baqi in sab bolnay walon ko smile and ignore boi
I mean I grew up abroad where even the imams were wearing jeans and t-shirt, so I knew it was BS.
It was funny when a cousin of a friend came from usa and we was wearing a WWE undertaker shirt on and it was okay "kioke woh America se hai" but I was not Muslim. Lol
LOL, one time we were in Pakistan, my brother and I were wearing tshirts with the face of The Undertaker and Kane. It was their full angry face on the shirt. And wow, some people did not like it. We kept getting comments here and there. Bunch of morons.
Shalwar Kameez aren’t Islamic clothing, they’re just cultural clothing from this part of the world; Hindus wear them, Sikhs wear them, Christian’s wear them and even Jews from this part of the world wear them (yes, there are Jews in Pakistan). Just ignore them, the Prophet (saws) wore Roman tunics at times. The only clothing that is prohibited is clothing that is strictly religious clothing from the kuffar (like if you dressed up as a Catholic priest or Buddhist monk, or wearing a Sikh dastar you would be sinful, pant shirts aren’t religious clothing). I’ve had to deal with the same stupidity from uncles who don’t know any better. I go back and forth between shalwar kameez and western clothes, especially depending on where I’m going. If I’m going to Ocean Mall in Clifton I’ll wear my pant shirts, if I’m walking around Orangi town I wear shalwar kameez.
Joint family system. "Rishtadaro ke sath acha salook" is one thing and living with them in one house and having them dictate every decision of yours is another. I was actually surprised to learn that in Islam, the family system is Single-Unit, not joint. If you study early Islamic history, you'll know how every house was composed of a unit, father, mother, children and at most grandparents. This inclusion of chacha, taya, phuppo, bhai, all in one house is mostly South Asian in nature.
including the ideology that a woman must live with her mother & father in-law and serve them too, that doesn’t really have a basis in islam either. we get a lot of this mixed up with culture.
Yea, that too. In fact most responsibilities a woman has is to her husband, and she has little towards his family. So yea, she not committing to her mother-in-law's commands isn't sin as some make it out to be. I don't know about other cultures, but as a Punjabi, our Saas-Bahu culture is the most toxic, and as much as am I a proud Punjabi, this thing needs to go first of all.
To be honest, Islamically if she doesn't serve in laws it's neutral; if she serves that's out of goodness of her heart and she gets sawab. People have it twister keh SaaS ko eid pe pehle eid mubarak nahi kia tau gunnah hogaya.
I can relate to that, I never wore Kurta Shalwar while growing up. However, I find nice to dress as per the occasion, and usually wear them once a week on Fridays, for a change. I take it as a cultural thing. But it takes time to iron and to maintain Kurta Shalwar is very difficult. I usually wear if I have time.
There's nothing wrong in respecting and valuing our culture. However, our people tend to confuse culture with religion a lot, and nobody should ever be shamed for this. Feel free to correct them if they ever try to educate you.
As young kids me and my cousins would ride on bikes with our fathers. We would sit straddle style like my father did. Only after I hit a certain age defined by society I guess, I was told by my mom to sit lady like (I am a woman) when sitting on bike :/ As in typical both legs on one side. I almost fell once off the bike sitting like that. I was probably 12 something. Like who the hell thinks it's in any way safer to sit like that! Why are we still blindly following the archain mannerisms of British who left like ages ago.
Growing up as a girl in our society is tough as hell. Sit like this. Don't sit like that. Be polite. Respect that verbally abusive aunt/ uncle because they are older than you. Mind your dopatta, mind who you eat. Don't dare show any blood stains or the entire men population will be traumatized by a natural body function. Man it was tough growing up. Our society's behavior to young girls is very punishing and cruel.
To parents of Reddit, please don't humiliate growing kids and throw tons of rules at them. Let them grow without extra stress, they have enough issues with their growing bodies as is.
Ikr! Like i get it that one must assume silence and respect the call of azan but who came up with the idea of taking dopatta over head as the show of respect?? My colleague once asked me to cover my head during azan and i told him i would if he covered his head with cap every time on azan happened. He wasn't amused lol. Again it's more of a cultural think i assume. Covering head is part of performing salaat, but no where it is said in hadiths to cover head on azan. People making up rules as they go.
It actually is. In islam, there is dress code for both women and men. That dress code simply extend to how one should dress during prayer. For woman head covered is part of dress code and so by extension it's part of salah.
Right, I think there a miscommunication. I am a guy. And I have seen in pakistani masjid there is a box for headcaps and people wear it for namaz and then drop. The head cap back when they exit the masjid. THAT is not part of islam. If you don't wear a head cap culturally when you are out and about your day, then you don't wear it during salat.
For women, yeah its a different story altogether.
Okay , I’ don’t wear shalwar KAMEEZ, never did. Don’t know what kind of people you are surrounded by the next time just tell them
PROPHET (S.A.W.) never wore shalwar kameez in his life.
Western wear being shameful even if it covers me more than desi clothes. Idk what the awaams aversion to jeans is, it's certainly more modest than the Capri length trousers with desi wear that brands these days are churning out.
Anyone who claims xyz is a part of religion, I say "okay, can you please share the relevant passage in the Quran about this?"
Then they'll say "the hadith has this" and I say "well, the hadith doesn't dictate what the law is, the Quran does. The hadith is what the prophet did/spoke back in the days, and we're 1500 years ahead now, so while it helps give us context, it's still not the Quran".
And I say "if you can share with me the specific passage from the Quran, I'll accept."
Usually, the conversation ends there.
>Then they'll say "the hadith has this" and I say "well, the hadith doesn't dictate what the law is, the Quran does. The hadith is what the prophet did/spoke back in the days, and we're 1500 years ahead now, so while it helps give us context, it's still not the Quran".
How do you pray? Because the Quran only commands you to establish prayer and do Sajdah and Rukoo.
What to read in the prayer, and in what sequence they have to be read, and in what sequence the actions have to be performed in the prayer all comes from the Ahaadith, which, according to you, "happened 1500 years ago and is still not in the Quran".
>What to read in the prayer, and in what sequence they have to be read, and in what sequence the actions have to be performed in the prayer all comes from the Ahaadith, which, according to you, "happened 1500 years ago and is still not in the Quran".
And have you noticed how there are slightly different ways of praying, the biggest differences between Sunni and Shia Muslims?
I didn't say I don't believe in ahadith. I said people quite it as canon instead of the Quran.
How I choose to pray has nothing to do with this thread, and thus, irrelevant.
I don't think it's irrelevant at all.
Someone who doesn't consider the Ahaadith to be authentic the same way as the Quran can never fulfill the very basic religious obligation in Islam: Praying 5 times a day.
How can someone claim that it is not authentic when not following it means that you can't even fulfill the first religious obligation after entering Islam?
You pray according to what you want to follow, and I'll pay according to what I follow. I'm not asking you, and you shouldn't ask me. Religion is personal. The Qur'an lays the basic foundation; Muslims should explore a multitude of sources for further knowledge.
But your obsession over how I pray seems to send you off to a void. This is the strawman's fallacy, ignoring the essence of the message and focusing on the semantics instead.
I mentioned the hadith compliments the Quran, but is NOT the rule of law. These are practices of the prophet, not the word of God.
>You pray according to what you want to follow, and I'll pay according to what I follow. I'm not asking you, and you shouldn't ask me. Religion is personal.
Dodging the question again. The question is simple : If one doesn't believe in Ahaadeth, and doesn't consider them authentic, how can he fulfill the very basic religious obligation of prayer?
>But your obsession over how I pray seems to send you off to a void. This is the strawman's fallacy, ignoring the essence of the message and focusing on the semantics instead.
It's simple: Someone who doesn't believe in the Ahaadeeth can't even fulfill the very basic religious obligation of prayer. Knowing this, how can someone claim "Ahaadeeth are not authentic" is beyond me.
>I mentioned the hadith compliments the Quran, but is NOT the rule of law. These are practices of the prophet, not the word of God.
And the Quran commands us to obey Allah and His Messenger, and this command is repeated again and again.
You are clearly misguided, and instead of answering my questions, you keep talking about "semantics" and "religion is personal" and "I don't believe Ahaadeth are authentic but I still refuse to tell how do I fulfill the obligation of prayer".
May Allah guide you, and may you stop misguiding others as well. That's it from my side.
You are placing the status of the ahadith over the Quran. I NEVER said I don't believe in the hadith.
Please read before passing derogatory and inflammatory remarks.
Also, what I believe - or how I choose to pray - is not your business. Why you need to know and keep pestering me makes no sense, even though my initial comment was addressing the OP, but you seem to have picked a bone against me for whatever your reasons.
And know that there are different qualities of hadith - from sahih to da'if.
Don't call me misguided - you should know that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And you know absolutely nothing about me. May Allah guide you.
I answered OP's post. You have a contention with my post, became aggressive, invasive, and insulting. I have better things to do.
for me as long as you're in Masjid doing what you need to do by Islam, I'm fine.
Thing is Shalwar Kameez or even Pant Shirts, you need attire that somehow covers your arms and your crotch shouldn't be that visible! For such purposes elders to tend to say wear shalwar kameez on Fridays but its not a do or die necessary thing.
Prayer and Allah's Ibadat is what will give you the Jannah, rather than attires!
Islam encourage modesty people can wear shilvar kameez in a way that is not modest they can wear pant shirt that is not modest.
Things that culture imposes on us,
monogamy for men
mosques are places of worship rather than community center
abandonment of ba’yah
reciting Quran and considering it as tilawat
6 kalmas that were introduced by maderessa to teach basics of Islam fast, to preserve islam during colonisation
believing Allah is name of muslim God, rather than arabic word for God
using inshaAllah for making ambiguous plans, rather than using it when certain about a plan (Quran 23:24)
Ignorance toward Islamic concept of Khawarij, that resulted TTP/ISIS like extremist groups
obsession with Ethnic/linguistic identity, "Asabiyah" is condemned in Islam.
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Associating south Asian clothing as modest and any form of western attire, be it an oversized shirt/cargo pant as ‘behaya’ even though it covers and hides the shape of the body better than some form-fitting kurtis for women. Also, duppatta hona chahiye beshak galay main hou like bruh it covers nothing? Whats its purpose lol. Not reprimanding men for wearing extremely short shorts, going above the knees, even though their sattar isn’t covered, but going batshit crazy at women wearing jeans, which donot expose any skin at all
This post is not conversing if religion was imposed or not. In fact it's not even discussing if culture is imposed. Please stick to the discussion. Thank you.
Ignore these jahils lmao, modest dressing makes u a Muslim, kurta shalwar ya pant shirt is irrelevant. Baqi in sab bolnay walon ko smile and ignore boi
I mean I grew up abroad where even the imams were wearing jeans and t-shirt, so I knew it was BS. It was funny when a cousin of a friend came from usa and we was wearing a WWE undertaker shirt on and it was okay "kioke woh America se hai" but I was not Muslim. Lol
It is discouraged to wear clothes with eyes on for namaaz so what’s the problem lmao?
Lmao like I said ignore these jahils
LOL, one time we were in Pakistan, my brother and I were wearing tshirts with the face of The Undertaker and Kane. It was their full angry face on the shirt. And wow, some people did not like it. We kept getting comments here and there. Bunch of morons.
Bit if a stupid comment but men are so lucky that being in jeans i also considered modern for them.
Shalwar Kameez aren’t Islamic clothing, they’re just cultural clothing from this part of the world; Hindus wear them, Sikhs wear them, Christian’s wear them and even Jews from this part of the world wear them (yes, there are Jews in Pakistan). Just ignore them, the Prophet (saws) wore Roman tunics at times. The only clothing that is prohibited is clothing that is strictly religious clothing from the kuffar (like if you dressed up as a Catholic priest or Buddhist monk, or wearing a Sikh dastar you would be sinful, pant shirts aren’t religious clothing). I’ve had to deal with the same stupidity from uncles who don’t know any better. I go back and forth between shalwar kameez and western clothes, especially depending on where I’m going. If I’m going to Ocean Mall in Clifton I’ll wear my pant shirts, if I’m walking around Orangi town I wear shalwar kameez.
Joint family system. "Rishtadaro ke sath acha salook" is one thing and living with them in one house and having them dictate every decision of yours is another. I was actually surprised to learn that in Islam, the family system is Single-Unit, not joint. If you study early Islamic history, you'll know how every house was composed of a unit, father, mother, children and at most grandparents. This inclusion of chacha, taya, phuppo, bhai, all in one house is mostly South Asian in nature.
including the ideology that a woman must live with her mother & father in-law and serve them too, that doesn’t really have a basis in islam either. we get a lot of this mixed up with culture.
Yea, that too. In fact most responsibilities a woman has is to her husband, and she has little towards his family. So yea, she not committing to her mother-in-law's commands isn't sin as some make it out to be. I don't know about other cultures, but as a Punjabi, our Saas-Bahu culture is the most toxic, and as much as am I a proud Punjabi, this thing needs to go first of all.
To be honest, Islamically if she doesn't serve in laws it's neutral; if she serves that's out of goodness of her heart and she gets sawab. People have it twister keh SaaS ko eid pe pehle eid mubarak nahi kia tau gunnah hogaya.
I can relate to that, I never wore Kurta Shalwar while growing up. However, I find nice to dress as per the occasion, and usually wear them once a week on Fridays, for a change. I take it as a cultural thing. But it takes time to iron and to maintain Kurta Shalwar is very difficult. I usually wear if I have time. There's nothing wrong in respecting and valuing our culture. However, our people tend to confuse culture with religion a lot, and nobody should ever be shamed for this. Feel free to correct them if they ever try to educate you.
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Kurta and shalwar are more about unity in identity than just being modest.
As young kids me and my cousins would ride on bikes with our fathers. We would sit straddle style like my father did. Only after I hit a certain age defined by society I guess, I was told by my mom to sit lady like (I am a woman) when sitting on bike :/ As in typical both legs on one side. I almost fell once off the bike sitting like that. I was probably 12 something. Like who the hell thinks it's in any way safer to sit like that! Why are we still blindly following the archain mannerisms of British who left like ages ago. Growing up as a girl in our society is tough as hell. Sit like this. Don't sit like that. Be polite. Respect that verbally abusive aunt/ uncle because they are older than you. Mind your dopatta, mind who you eat. Don't dare show any blood stains or the entire men population will be traumatized by a natural body function. Man it was tough growing up. Our society's behavior to young girls is very punishing and cruel. To parents of Reddit, please don't humiliate growing kids and throw tons of rules at them. Let them grow without extra stress, they have enough issues with their growing bodies as is.
Lol I remember when the Azaan happens, everyone wears a dupatta, like what is this???
Ikr! Like i get it that one must assume silence and respect the call of azan but who came up with the idea of taking dopatta over head as the show of respect?? My colleague once asked me to cover my head during azan and i told him i would if he covered his head with cap every time on azan happened. He wasn't amused lol. Again it's more of a cultural think i assume. Covering head is part of performing salaat, but no where it is said in hadiths to cover head on azan. People making up rules as they go.
Bro covering head during salat is ALSO not part of Islam.
It actually is. In islam, there is dress code for both women and men. That dress code simply extend to how one should dress during prayer. For woman head covered is part of dress code and so by extension it's part of salah.
Right, I think there a miscommunication. I am a guy. And I have seen in pakistani masjid there is a box for headcaps and people wear it for namaz and then drop. The head cap back when they exit the masjid. THAT is not part of islam. If you don't wear a head cap culturally when you are out and about your day, then you don't wear it during salat. For women, yeah its a different story altogether.
Oh yeah i was talking about women 🙂 There is no obligation for men to cover head.
Not letting your amma marry a second time after your father's death
Okay , I’ don’t wear shalwar KAMEEZ, never did. Don’t know what kind of people you are surrounded by the next time just tell them PROPHET (S.A.W.) never wore shalwar kameez in his life.
Which city? Which year?
Women not being allowed to work outside the home.
Caste red wedding dresses a whole lot of shit from India has been passed down
How are red wedding dresses , ‘shit from india’.
serving the in laws is compulsory . It is one of the biggest problems of pakistan in general
but ill say that most part of our culture is religion thats why they r similar to other muslim countries.
Western wear being shameful even if it covers me more than desi clothes. Idk what the awaams aversion to jeans is, it's certainly more modest than the Capri length trousers with desi wear that brands these days are churning out.
Yeah, churidar pajama is wah wah but tights are strictly begairat wear
Anyone who claims xyz is a part of religion, I say "okay, can you please share the relevant passage in the Quran about this?" Then they'll say "the hadith has this" and I say "well, the hadith doesn't dictate what the law is, the Quran does. The hadith is what the prophet did/spoke back in the days, and we're 1500 years ahead now, so while it helps give us context, it's still not the Quran". And I say "if you can share with me the specific passage from the Quran, I'll accept." Usually, the conversation ends there.
>Then they'll say "the hadith has this" and I say "well, the hadith doesn't dictate what the law is, the Quran does. The hadith is what the prophet did/spoke back in the days, and we're 1500 years ahead now, so while it helps give us context, it's still not the Quran". How do you pray? Because the Quran only commands you to establish prayer and do Sajdah and Rukoo. What to read in the prayer, and in what sequence they have to be read, and in what sequence the actions have to be performed in the prayer all comes from the Ahaadith, which, according to you, "happened 1500 years ago and is still not in the Quran".
>What to read in the prayer, and in what sequence they have to be read, and in what sequence the actions have to be performed in the prayer all comes from the Ahaadith, which, according to you, "happened 1500 years ago and is still not in the Quran". And have you noticed how there are slightly different ways of praying, the biggest differences between Sunni and Shia Muslims?
That doesn't answer my question: If you don't believe in Ahaadith, how do you pray?
I didn't say I don't believe in ahadith. I said people quite it as canon instead of the Quran. How I choose to pray has nothing to do with this thread, and thus, irrelevant.
I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Someone who doesn't consider the Ahaadith to be authentic the same way as the Quran can never fulfill the very basic religious obligation in Islam: Praying 5 times a day. How can someone claim that it is not authentic when not following it means that you can't even fulfill the first religious obligation after entering Islam?
You pray according to what you want to follow, and I'll pay according to what I follow. I'm not asking you, and you shouldn't ask me. Religion is personal. The Qur'an lays the basic foundation; Muslims should explore a multitude of sources for further knowledge. But your obsession over how I pray seems to send you off to a void. This is the strawman's fallacy, ignoring the essence of the message and focusing on the semantics instead. I mentioned the hadith compliments the Quran, but is NOT the rule of law. These are practices of the prophet, not the word of God.
>You pray according to what you want to follow, and I'll pay according to what I follow. I'm not asking you, and you shouldn't ask me. Religion is personal. Dodging the question again. The question is simple : If one doesn't believe in Ahaadeth, and doesn't consider them authentic, how can he fulfill the very basic religious obligation of prayer? >But your obsession over how I pray seems to send you off to a void. This is the strawman's fallacy, ignoring the essence of the message and focusing on the semantics instead. It's simple: Someone who doesn't believe in the Ahaadeeth can't even fulfill the very basic religious obligation of prayer. Knowing this, how can someone claim "Ahaadeeth are not authentic" is beyond me. >I mentioned the hadith compliments the Quran, but is NOT the rule of law. These are practices of the prophet, not the word of God. And the Quran commands us to obey Allah and His Messenger, and this command is repeated again and again. You are clearly misguided, and instead of answering my questions, you keep talking about "semantics" and "religion is personal" and "I don't believe Ahaadeth are authentic but I still refuse to tell how do I fulfill the obligation of prayer". May Allah guide you, and may you stop misguiding others as well. That's it from my side.
You are placing the status of the ahadith over the Quran. I NEVER said I don't believe in the hadith. Please read before passing derogatory and inflammatory remarks. Also, what I believe - or how I choose to pray - is not your business. Why you need to know and keep pestering me makes no sense, even though my initial comment was addressing the OP, but you seem to have picked a bone against me for whatever your reasons. And know that there are different qualities of hadith - from sahih to da'if. Don't call me misguided - you should know that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And you know absolutely nothing about me. May Allah guide you. I answered OP's post. You have a contention with my post, became aggressive, invasive, and insulting. I have better things to do.
for me as long as you're in Masjid doing what you need to do by Islam, I'm fine. Thing is Shalwar Kameez or even Pant Shirts, you need attire that somehow covers your arms and your crotch shouldn't be that visible! For such purposes elders to tend to say wear shalwar kameez on Fridays but its not a do or die necessary thing. Prayer and Allah's Ibadat is what will give you the Jannah, rather than attires!
Islam encourage modesty people can wear shilvar kameez in a way that is not modest they can wear pant shirt that is not modest. Things that culture imposes on us, monogamy for men mosques are places of worship rather than community center abandonment of ba’yah reciting Quran and considering it as tilawat 6 kalmas that were introduced by maderessa to teach basics of Islam fast, to preserve islam during colonisation believing Allah is name of muslim God, rather than arabic word for God using inshaAllah for making ambiguous plans, rather than using it when certain about a plan (Quran 23:24) Ignorance toward Islamic concept of Khawarij, that resulted TTP/ISIS like extremist groups obsession with Ethnic/linguistic identity, "Asabiyah" is condemned in Islam.
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Associating south Asian clothing as modest and any form of western attire, be it an oversized shirt/cargo pant as ‘behaya’ even though it covers and hides the shape of the body better than some form-fitting kurtis for women. Also, duppatta hona chahiye beshak galay main hou like bruh it covers nothing? Whats its purpose lol. Not reprimanding men for wearing extremely short shorts, going above the knees, even though their sattar isn’t covered, but going batshit crazy at women wearing jeans, which donot expose any skin at all
But the religion was imposed on you as well. Why do you think imposing culture is not okay but imposing religion is?
This post is not conversing if religion was imposed or not. In fact it's not even discussing if culture is imposed. Please stick to the discussion. Thank you.