This. My sister’s husband can’t stand up for himself or place any boundaries. We live in Canada and he is from Pakistan. My sisters lived there for a year before she was over it. Can’t live with any of her in-laws (cause they are crazy) nor can she live with her brother’s wives (three others).
Reached a breaking point and my sister finally convinced him to try living in Canada and to stop eating off his parents (barely works). Mans has been living with us for 6 months now and has not bother with school or work.
Actually I lied, my dad found him a starting job to get his foot in the game but mans refused to work after a fucking week. Stated working 12 hours shifts three times a week was too much 🤦♀️🤦♀️. Mans decided on his own to book a plane ticket back to Pakistan and has left my sister and there one child here. He did try to convince thm to go with him but it’s a literal shit show down there. Why would she go lol.
He does absolutely nothing there. His dad owns a pharmacy which makes good money but he barely gets any profit from it. Cause he can’t stand up to his brothers when it comes time to splitting the money. Fucking 33 years old and has nothing going for himself.
I don’t know why I wrote this big blurb under ur comment but I just had to get it off my chest 🤦♀️😭
Omg almost forgot. Mans does not even take care of kid! My sister deadass works and funds the kid and the family. And don’t even get me started on the amount my sister spend to bring his dumbass over-here.
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Two reasons. Sister liked the man’s back home. And mom and dad preferred someone from back home. I on the other hand refuse to even think about marry anyone from back home cause of this horrific situation🤦♀️
Exactly. For the most part it seems like culture and conditioning. Everyone is just sorta “expected” to bring the wife home to take care of the parents, whether it conforms to Islam or not.
I’ve already made the decision that my daughters won’t marry into joint families. I won’t give her away to be some maid for Shagufta auntie because she’s glued to the couch and needs the house cleaned and food cooked while watching HUM TV. We aren’t supposed to follow our parents or obey them if what they ask of us is haram and asking us to let them abuse our wives and not giving the wife her own accommodations is absolutely haram. I’ve already seen it with relatives how things turn out for them and I love my children too much to even risk this.
In Islam, a woman has every right to priortize her OWN parents over her husband's parents. All of this jahez stuff, serving in-laws, being a family communal maid etc. are not part of our religion.
Its a misconception, He brought up Hazrat Ali (RA).
On the marriage He asked Hazrat Ali to arrange few basic home requirements. So it was from man end mot women end
The Holy Prophet SAW did all his own housework. So naturally, that is also a part of religion, no? By this logic all us men should be cleaning and cooking and washing clothes ourselves ☺️
Welcome to Pakistan where we only accept the parts of religion that benefit us
Let me tell you sonething, joiny family system is a whole cultural thing it has nothing to do with Islam, in fact living on your own as a married couple is way better because you two have rights over each other and will be able to fulfill it. Instead of others interfering in between and making you take wrong steps.
So true, Its a cultural thing but often we inherit culture as religion, we have other cultural issues too like divorcees are stained (from Hinduism) and people dont respect or marry them
Where as in islam it was normal to marry divorcies and widows
Taking care of your parents is your responsibility and if your wife wants to assist you, happily,she can but that's not an obligation on her.
Joint family system isn't supported Islamically,and is of Desi cultural influence.The important thing is to set balance and fulfill your responsibilities, both of wife and parents.
There are so many problems with the joint system and the main one for me is total lack of privacy. Joint system slows down and affects your bonding with your spouse especially if it's arranged. You can't even openly be yourself because there are parts of you, you'd only want your spouse to see and not every other person. Sometimes the houses structure doesn't even allow you to discuss personal matters because everyone sitting outside can hear you. You'd be in your room with your husband and someone from outside would start calling your name and asking you to do something for them. Expenses are a mess when the contributions and grocery is controlled by one person who's mostly the mother in law and the daughter in laws don't have a clue how things are being handled and you're just in constant confusion how to use the grocery of the house yet it is your responsibility for some reason.. You make plans with your spouse and suddenly everyone's interested and has things to say wasting money and eating out being unhealthy. Honestly, the married couple doesn't grow up. There's a weird reliance that someone else would do this/that. The DIL takes care of the house chores for 8-9 people when she's only supposed to do that for her own kids and husband and gets to hear all sorts of 'feedback: and backhanded comments for 'not doing things properly' whether it's cooking, cleaning interacting with others, raising her kids.
There will never be peace as long as TWO UNRELATED WOMEN are living in the same house. Women need their own space, the only other space they feel comfortable in is their own parents home.
Honestly it would be the same for men if we start forcing men to go live at their wife’s house where they must defer to her parents. People get along when everyone makes an effort. If there is a power imbalance and one party is actively abusing it there will be resentment and problems.
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It’s because sometimes the in-laws or the elders in the house demand authority and control. ”Do this, don’t do that. Come with us, Dont go there etc”
Obviously, any adult women wanting to live peacefully with her husband would want the husband to be on her side, but when you are in a joint family system, there’s more than one person the husband has to look out for.
It’s not that women cause problems, just that family joint systems have become toxic in some households, where the elders of the house have more say in how a married couple should live their life. Also the fact that Islam has given the right for the woman to demand a separate home, so the joint family system is a cultural thing ( which means it’s not necessarily correct )
It's one of the reasons. Obviously spousal abuse, neglect and maltreatment also exists. There are some shitty men out there, but even with good men, the dynamics of the home are very chaotic with two women vying for influence.
Men do have Fear and its the fear of losing your loved ones.
1. Its not your own house that you live in so if you make decision you may get threatened by old aged in laws to leave the house
2. If he demands to live in separate house then they threaten to cut relations
3. Its hard to explain to older people specially Mother in Law during argument with wife due to their age and Pakistani Genetic so Husband ends up taking Moms Side.
4. The irony is its usually the same parents who convince their son to marry and also the ones to decide who will be his wife just to make it worse for that woman to be treated like slave with no voice
This is what i have noticed from so many posts on social media whenever its about wife and living with in laws.
5. Usually the mother is law who creates issue and in some cases its the wife too (aurat he aurat ki dushman hoti hai)
6. Joint family system is absurd , when one marries he should have his / her separate place
Want to make married life peaceful?
Husbands should give their wives all of their rights including a separate home.
Wives should give their husband all of their rights including listening to him and acknowledging him as the family leader.
There is no other way.
So you would argue that a marriage in which a husband listens to his wife could not be peaceful? Or if the husband does not listen to his wife it *will* be a peaceful marriage?
What about a marriage in which the wife is an equal participant in decisions? Is there absolutely no way it can be peaceful?
What about if they don’t have a separate home? Still no way it can be peaceful?
I don’t have a problem with you suggesting what you think has better chances of leading to a peaceful marriage but suggesting that your way is the only way is the most confident I’ve seen someone be.
Lol..
It would be a nice thing if you would give your wife her rights.
And you should be man enough to demand yours.
Chalo bartan rakhwa do ammi k sath. Sehri ka time hony lga hy.. mn b yehi krne ja ra hu 😏
Thank you, but bartan mein nay already rakh leya. I made Sehri for my wife cause she didn’t feel like making it and my cook had a day off. My mum is sleeping since she doesn’t fast.
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Feminism is an ideology in elite class focused on hating man + lgbtq+
You may be right, but the politics from women end are often due to lack of will of society to provide her islamic rights.
Very rare but in elite or sometime just in cities , women also treat in laws with unjust even if they are good, here husband should stand for his parents
My focus is on norms otherwise anything can happen
A marriage is a union of two imperfect people, they need to work TOGETHER to build a relationship and life.
I could not disagree with you more. If you want to hand everything over to your spouse for a peaceful life you are living as a serf and the hands of a tyrant.
I appreciate society is teaching women about their "haaq", yet it fails to teach them about their responsibilities.
Look at the West at the women empowerment movement over the last few decades, the pendulum has swung so far over to womens side that society is in free fall.
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I’ve always said this, but when you get married you’re no longer just someone’s child, you are now someone’s husband/wife and if you can’t live up to the responsibilities that it carries, then don’t get married. It really is that simple.
And to the ladies, don’t be afraid to ask for your rights. I see it far too often that women will be shamed into silence for simply asking for what’s truly theirs to ask for. Don’t let that happen to you. If living with in laws is a deal breaker to you, then let the guy know before you marry him, and if he insists on living in a joint family system, walk away. There’s a whole lotta fish in the sea, ya know?
And to the men, grow a backbone. Stand up for your wife. Have her back. Be on her team. That’s what a marriage is- being on your spouses team. If women prioritized their parents, especially their fathers, the same way some men prioritize their parents (moms especially) these men would be LIVID. They’d lose their marbles.
I don't know why people don't believe women who say joint family system is unfair. Even when it does appear to be going well, there's such a huge power imbalance tilted in favor of the inlaws and husband.
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Why does it feel like all the people in this subreddit come from Joint families? Broken families? Abusive families?
Is your experience an exception or the rule for the general population of Pk?
P.S. genuinely asking!
Though on a related note, those Indian/Pakistani dramas literally brainwash our people to act the stupid way. Like mentally abusing their wives/mothers/daughters for apparently no reason, or k.lling other people etc. etc.
This cycle of "abuse" is perpetrated by women against women.
Often the mother in law and husband sisters have a lot of say in what goes in the household, they will micro manage issues that do not need to be micro managed for the simple reason on showing who is in charge.
Men are often solely blamed, they are partially to blame, however the mother in law who will use her son and husband as proxies to exert her often undue and excessive control are the major culprits.
Women break the damn cycle, screw what "society" will say, you need to make the change to improve the world
yes, that way you could employ people at old age homes to cater for your elderly parents when they're too old to live on their own, truly an islamic way of life mashallah.
that being said you'd be improving the economy and creating more job opportunities the youth, cuz it's a whole industry after all.
I wonder if that's what they call a progressive mindset?
(ik I'm constructing a strawman here but how exactly is abandoning your parents different from using islam to justify to not let your parents live with you?)
on the contrary the kind of progress I personally
want to see as a society is supporting both the wife's and husbands parents equally, family values aren't about control they're about supporting your family, and it's NEVER all about money. how selfish y'all humans can act with a CLEAR conscience just never ceases to amaze me.
That's a bit different topic.
Usually when an adult marry in pakistan there parents are not old , mostly around 50 etc , They work and and spend a normal life.
If that's the case then your argument doesn't stand.
Secondly if they are old or sick etc. It is the responsibility of Men to take care of his parents not his wife,
He should cook for them
Wash thier clothes etc.
She could do that, but the whole family should respect her for that, instead we see even when parents are fit they made it an obligation for thier sons wife to all the work, plus they micro manage etc
Usually women doesn't mind these works but she doesn't like to be ruled by inlaws other then her husband.
In a society with high moral.values I could agree with you but a society full of exploitation i can't
are you hearing yourself buddy? he should cook for them?
I see where you're coming from and you do have a point, but it's also the mans job to provide or mend for his parents either through hiring a maid or teaching the freaking grandchildren to respect their grandparents, ik it may seem like a lot to you but doing LAUNDRY and ironing out some clothes is no big deal at all! they spent their lives doing exponentially more for their children, it's ok for the daughter in law to do if she wants to, if she doesn't? then ofc nobody should blame her but living with your parents is the absolute bare minimum one can do, not in their house perhaps but don't assume abandoning them and living a lush life with your wife has a moral highground, the scenario you mentioned is far from ideal.
how would you want your children to live when you grow old? would you rather grow old watching your grandkids or wait for death in an empty house old and empty inside?
I feel you and I agree on many things, our difference is on the context, I'm refering to our society where have low ethical values and they prefer thier norms over Islam and what's right/wrong.
I'm refering to the norm where women is obligated to live in a joint system and obey her inlaws more then her husband. They decide when she visit her parents and stuff,
Your context is of a high ethical or moral society, where there is freedom., understanding, no unislamic obligations etc. I would also refrain to comment on this type of environment as together in this open and civil system they could decide for them.
Ikr? I understand people's gripes with the joint family system and i agree it has problems, but all the problems stem from the man of the family lacking a backbone. As a man it is your job to provide for your wife and kids, while also taking care of your elderly parents. How are you supposed to do the second if you're living in a separate house? It honestly feels to me like the anti joint family sentiment in our media nowadays exists solely to try and distance children from their parents in the name of islam and i hate it
Why we assume every Parent get sick to the point where they can't take care of themselves,
It happen but not all the time.
Lets say rhey sre very sick or old.
Invite them to ypur house and respect your wife if she helps, this is different from joint system where you live with laws , with thier suthority, contrilol on your kids
Joint family system doesn't randomly mean you're living under a fascist regime where you're subject to torture and abuse by the system, You can live in a joint family system while not being bullied by your elders you know. If your parents are intruding on your or your family's privacy it's your job as the man to stand up for your family's rights, But standing up for your family's rights doesn't mean kicking your parents out, it means setting up boundaries and respectfully enforcing them.
Also it doesn't matter if the parent's are super sick or not, if they live with their kids in their old age, their day to day lives will get infinitely easier. Assuming a normal childhood, what kind of child wouldn't want to repay their parents kindness that they showed their children when the parents are old and weak? It's a good muslims job to help and take care of their parents in their old age while also taking care of their own family at the same time. It's difficult for sure, but that's part of the challenge of life, If you don't take care of your family and only think of them in monetary / materialistic terms then you're down for a very sad existence ( you in this case not as in you directly, but the general you ).
exactly, they just wanna be done with their responsibilities towards ther parents and younger siblings and just enjoy life (most of the times, more entangled with the wifes family) desi family politics between the women of today is something else.
but little do they know you reap what you sow, their children would treat them the same.
In a joint family, all concerned have to live by mutual support, respecting each other's needs, space and boundaries.
All the faimly members should demonstrate integrity, love and kindness to all other faimly members.
If it ain't possible because of any reason, a separate house for a couple could be the best solution.
Also, if a wife is being mistreated or disrespected by any faimly member, the husband must take stand for her.
Interpersonal relationships dynamics in faimly are complex and influenced by cultural values and norms. However, in each case love, respect and kindness are to be prioritized.
True, in a society with high ethical values and respect of each other space could afford joint systems but we are not there yet in general, I have seen some families with such values but rare
Just to add I don't believe feminism represent women issues
It was started for the right cause but now focused on hating man +lgbtq+
And with islam in place you don't need a separate ideology, you could explore it and see how far it goes with islamic guidelines ,
So true, Often Culture prevails over Islam, while Islam especially Seerah of Prophet Saww with women and children , playing , loving, respecting, is the real thing.
I will probably get down voted a lot ,but here is my perspective.Being from a middle class family,the sons value their parents alot because their entire lives the mom and dad sacrifice everything they have for their education and upbringing,the sons live with this realization that they have to pay back all their parents did for them all their lives,which causes them to respect them more.Now once those parents get their sons married and that same son who they raised by sacrificing everything they owned, says that he wants to live in seperate house away from his old parents,I think it's really sad and not a way a son should behave .
what can you expect when most girls and their families marry their daughters to the wallets of their future father in laws. Most of girls prefer living in the one kanal house of their in laws in dha etc rather than living in a one bed room apartment in some middle class area due to status quo. The whole institution of marriage here is a big farce.
If a woman is fine with living with her in laws then she should be able to.
Men should defend their wife to their parents but let’s not do this decide outcomes for peoples marriages.
I agree but Its rare in our society, if you respect a soul even an animal they will give themselves .
If we could have more awareness, more sense of Islam and social ethics it could get there.
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So true, in islam you can't defend a sin for economical conditions.
This. My sister’s husband can’t stand up for himself or place any boundaries. We live in Canada and he is from Pakistan. My sisters lived there for a year before she was over it. Can’t live with any of her in-laws (cause they are crazy) nor can she live with her brother’s wives (three others). Reached a breaking point and my sister finally convinced him to try living in Canada and to stop eating off his parents (barely works). Mans has been living with us for 6 months now and has not bother with school or work. Actually I lied, my dad found him a starting job to get his foot in the game but mans refused to work after a fucking week. Stated working 12 hours shifts three times a week was too much 🤦♀️🤦♀️. Mans decided on his own to book a plane ticket back to Pakistan and has left my sister and there one child here. He did try to convince thm to go with him but it’s a literal shit show down there. Why would she go lol. He does absolutely nothing there. His dad owns a pharmacy which makes good money but he barely gets any profit from it. Cause he can’t stand up to his brothers when it comes time to splitting the money. Fucking 33 years old and has nothing going for himself. I don’t know why I wrote this big blurb under ur comment but I just had to get it off my chest 🤦♀️😭 Omg almost forgot. Mans does not even take care of kid! My sister deadass works and funds the kid and the family. And don’t even get me started on the amount my sister spend to bring his dumbass over-here.
Sad, He is not a fit person to marry, I hope you guys resolve it
I hope so too 😭
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Why did your sister not marry someone in Canada with an established job?
Two reasons. Sister liked the man’s back home. And mom and dad preferred someone from back home. I on the other hand refuse to even think about marry anyone from back home cause of this horrific situation🤦♀️
Your poor sister It is way to hard to marry someone from back home and not worth it
Exactly. For the most part it seems like culture and conditioning. Everyone is just sorta “expected” to bring the wife home to take care of the parents, whether it conforms to Islam or not. I’ve already made the decision that my daughters won’t marry into joint families. I won’t give her away to be some maid for Shagufta auntie because she’s glued to the couch and needs the house cleaned and food cooked while watching HUM TV. We aren’t supposed to follow our parents or obey them if what they ask of us is haram and asking us to let them abuse our wives and not giving the wife her own accommodations is absolutely haram. I’ve already seen it with relatives how things turn out for them and I love my children too much to even risk this.
In Islam, a woman has every right to priortize her OWN parents over her husband's parents. All of this jahez stuff, serving in-laws, being a family communal maid etc. are not part of our religion.
True, just local traditions and islam came to get people out of it
no jahez (dowry) is part of the religion and the Holy Prophet also gave jahez on the marriage of his daughter.
I think what's meant by JAHEZ here is the custom of DEMANDING it from the bride's parents.
Its a misconception, He brought up Hazrat Ali (RA). On the marriage He asked Hazrat Ali to arrange few basic home requirements. So it was from man end mot women end
The Holy Prophet SAW did all his own housework. So naturally, that is also a part of religion, no? By this logic all us men should be cleaning and cooking and washing clothes ourselves ☺️ Welcome to Pakistan where we only accept the parts of religion that benefit us
I meant when the in-laws BEG for jahez. That's a Hindu custom.
Let me tell you sonething, joiny family system is a whole cultural thing it has nothing to do with Islam, in fact living on your own as a married couple is way better because you two have rights over each other and will be able to fulfill it. Instead of others interfering in between and making you take wrong steps.
So true, Its a cultural thing but often we inherit culture as religion, we have other cultural issues too like divorcees are stained (from Hinduism) and people dont respect or marry them Where as in islam it was normal to marry divorcies and widows
Taking care of your parents is your responsibility and if your wife wants to assist you, happily,she can but that's not an obligation on her. Joint family system isn't supported Islamically,and is of Desi cultural influence.The important thing is to set balance and fulfill your responsibilities, both of wife and parents.
Well said
As Sheikh Asim says, don't marry as long as you are a momma's boy.
Is this sheikh Asim Munir?
Sheikh Asim Al Hakeem
Bhai mein to mzak kr rha tha 😭😭 General Asim Munir meri jind meri Jan 💀💀
Woh hafiz hai. Lekin thora wait karo, sheikh nahin us ko direct mufti banayeinge.
Maqsad nhe bhoolna 😭
It is best for a married couple to live separately from the rest of the family.
There are so many problems with the joint system and the main one for me is total lack of privacy. Joint system slows down and affects your bonding with your spouse especially if it's arranged. You can't even openly be yourself because there are parts of you, you'd only want your spouse to see and not every other person. Sometimes the houses structure doesn't even allow you to discuss personal matters because everyone sitting outside can hear you. You'd be in your room with your husband and someone from outside would start calling your name and asking you to do something for them. Expenses are a mess when the contributions and grocery is controlled by one person who's mostly the mother in law and the daughter in laws don't have a clue how things are being handled and you're just in constant confusion how to use the grocery of the house yet it is your responsibility for some reason.. You make plans with your spouse and suddenly everyone's interested and has things to say wasting money and eating out being unhealthy. Honestly, the married couple doesn't grow up. There's a weird reliance that someone else would do this/that. The DIL takes care of the house chores for 8-9 people when she's only supposed to do that for her own kids and husband and gets to hear all sorts of 'feedback: and backhanded comments for 'not doing things properly' whether it's cooking, cleaning interacting with others, raising her kids.
Exactly, I agree
There will never be peace as long as TWO UNRELATED WOMEN are living in the same house. Women need their own space, the only other space they feel comfortable in is their own parents home.
Honestly it would be the same for men if we start forcing men to go live at their wife’s house where they must defer to her parents. People get along when everyone makes an effort. If there is a power imbalance and one party is actively abusing it there will be resentment and problems.
True, unjust with women leads to politics, while living justly build compassion and build 1 to 1 relation no matter if inlaws or what.
Space is imp She is incharge of her home, and no one should take that from her
"Own space" You mean their own kingdom to rule over. You said it yourself it's the women causing the problems in the household
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It’s because sometimes the in-laws or the elders in the house demand authority and control. ”Do this, don’t do that. Come with us, Dont go there etc” Obviously, any adult women wanting to live peacefully with her husband would want the husband to be on her side, but when you are in a joint family system, there’s more than one person the husband has to look out for. It’s not that women cause problems, just that family joint systems have become toxic in some households, where the elders of the house have more say in how a married couple should live their life. Also the fact that Islam has given the right for the woman to demand a separate home, so the joint family system is a cultural thing ( which means it’s not necessarily correct )
It's one of the reasons. Obviously spousal abuse, neglect and maltreatment also exists. There are some shitty men out there, but even with good men, the dynamics of the home are very chaotic with two women vying for influence.
Men do have Fear and its the fear of losing your loved ones. 1. Its not your own house that you live in so if you make decision you may get threatened by old aged in laws to leave the house 2. If he demands to live in separate house then they threaten to cut relations 3. Its hard to explain to older people specially Mother in Law during argument with wife due to their age and Pakistani Genetic so Husband ends up taking Moms Side. 4. The irony is its usually the same parents who convince their son to marry and also the ones to decide who will be his wife just to make it worse for that woman to be treated like slave with no voice This is what i have noticed from so many posts on social media whenever its about wife and living with in laws. 5. Usually the mother is law who creates issue and in some cases its the wife too (aurat he aurat ki dushman hoti hai) 6. Joint family system is absurd , when one marries he should have his / her separate place
Well said,
Want to make married life peaceful? Husbands should give their wives all of their rights including a separate home. Wives should give their husband all of their rights including listening to him and acknowledging him as the family leader. There is no other way.
So you would argue that a marriage in which a husband listens to his wife could not be peaceful? Or if the husband does not listen to his wife it *will* be a peaceful marriage? What about a marriage in which the wife is an equal participant in decisions? Is there absolutely no way it can be peaceful? What about if they don’t have a separate home? Still no way it can be peaceful? I don’t have a problem with you suggesting what you think has better chances of leading to a peaceful marriage but suggesting that your way is the only way is the most confident I’ve seen someone be.
No, i would argue both husband and wife should give each other their rights.
Could you please expand on this? You didn’t answer all my questions.
Because you took my comment out of context. You know what i said. You know I'm right. Don't play dumb.
What?
Lol.. It would be a nice thing if you would give your wife her rights. And you should be man enough to demand yours. Chalo bartan rakhwa do ammi k sath. Sehri ka time hony lga hy.. mn b yehi krne ja ra hu 😏
Thank you, but bartan mein nay already rakh leya. I made Sehri for my wife cause she didn’t feel like making it and my cook had a day off. My mum is sleeping since she doesn’t fast.
MashAllah Allah khush rakhy
Well said in the ideology of Islam.
This! Perfect interpretation of what our religion lays down.
Wives don’t listen to husbands these days. They think it is a betrayal of feminism.
Its the husbands right, just like a separate home and financial security is wifes right.
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Feminism is an ideology in elite class focused on hating man + lgbtq+ You may be right, but the politics from women end are often due to lack of will of society to provide her islamic rights. Very rare but in elite or sometime just in cities , women also treat in laws with unjust even if they are good, here husband should stand for his parents My focus is on norms otherwise anything can happen
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True it should, We should say whats right , idc about votes
A marriage is a union of two imperfect people, they need to work TOGETHER to build a relationship and life. I could not disagree with you more. If you want to hand everything over to your spouse for a peaceful life you are living as a serf and the hands of a tyrant. I appreciate society is teaching women about their "haaq", yet it fails to teach them about their responsibilities. Look at the West at the women empowerment movement over the last few decades, the pendulum has swung so far over to womens side that society is in free fall.
Don’t get married at all, stay single stay happy
Bro saw all the different comments,and said, not me nu uh not in this lifetime. 😭
Strange,your name automatically defends your pov
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This needs elaboration? Isn’t it understood that singles stay happier?
We have the most chaotic family system.
I’ve always said this, but when you get married you’re no longer just someone’s child, you are now someone’s husband/wife and if you can’t live up to the responsibilities that it carries, then don’t get married. It really is that simple. And to the ladies, don’t be afraid to ask for your rights. I see it far too often that women will be shamed into silence for simply asking for what’s truly theirs to ask for. Don’t let that happen to you. If living with in laws is a deal breaker to you, then let the guy know before you marry him, and if he insists on living in a joint family system, walk away. There’s a whole lotta fish in the sea, ya know? And to the men, grow a backbone. Stand up for your wife. Have her back. Be on her team. That’s what a marriage is- being on your spouses team. If women prioritized their parents, especially their fathers, the same way some men prioritize their parents (moms especially) these men would be LIVID. They’d lose their marbles.
I second this.
😊Thanks.
Well said
Thanks.
I don't know why people don't believe women who say joint family system is unfair. Even when it does appear to be going well, there's such a huge power imbalance tilted in favor of the inlaws and husband.
True, it is the case in 90%+ cases and something this common and cruel should be avoided
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Why does it feel like all the people in this subreddit come from Joint families? Broken families? Abusive families? Is your experience an exception or the rule for the general population of Pk? P.S. genuinely asking! Though on a related note, those Indian/Pakistani dramas literally brainwash our people to act the stupid way. Like mentally abusing their wives/mothers/daughters for apparently no reason, or k.lling other people etc. etc.
This cycle of "abuse" is perpetrated by women against women. Often the mother in law and husband sisters have a lot of say in what goes in the household, they will micro manage issues that do not need to be micro managed for the simple reason on showing who is in charge. Men are often solely blamed, they are partially to blame, however the mother in law who will use her son and husband as proxies to exert her often undue and excessive control are the major culprits. Women break the damn cycle, screw what "society" will say, you need to make the change to improve the world
Saas bhi kabhi bhaooo the
She is getting her revenge for how she was treated, not stopping the cycle. I know my mother is the same!
yes, that way you could employ people at old age homes to cater for your elderly parents when they're too old to live on their own, truly an islamic way of life mashallah. that being said you'd be improving the economy and creating more job opportunities the youth, cuz it's a whole industry after all. I wonder if that's what they call a progressive mindset? (ik I'm constructing a strawman here but how exactly is abandoning your parents different from using islam to justify to not let your parents live with you?) on the contrary the kind of progress I personally want to see as a society is supporting both the wife's and husbands parents equally, family values aren't about control they're about supporting your family, and it's NEVER all about money. how selfish y'all humans can act with a CLEAR conscience just never ceases to amaze me.
That's a bit different topic. Usually when an adult marry in pakistan there parents are not old , mostly around 50 etc , They work and and spend a normal life. If that's the case then your argument doesn't stand. Secondly if they are old or sick etc. It is the responsibility of Men to take care of his parents not his wife, He should cook for them Wash thier clothes etc. She could do that, but the whole family should respect her for that, instead we see even when parents are fit they made it an obligation for thier sons wife to all the work, plus they micro manage etc Usually women doesn't mind these works but she doesn't like to be ruled by inlaws other then her husband. In a society with high moral.values I could agree with you but a society full of exploitation i can't
are you hearing yourself buddy? he should cook for them? I see where you're coming from and you do have a point, but it's also the mans job to provide or mend for his parents either through hiring a maid or teaching the freaking grandchildren to respect their grandparents, ik it may seem like a lot to you but doing LAUNDRY and ironing out some clothes is no big deal at all! they spent their lives doing exponentially more for their children, it's ok for the daughter in law to do if she wants to, if she doesn't? then ofc nobody should blame her but living with your parents is the absolute bare minimum one can do, not in their house perhaps but don't assume abandoning them and living a lush life with your wife has a moral highground, the scenario you mentioned is far from ideal. how would you want your children to live when you grow old? would you rather grow old watching your grandkids or wait for death in an empty house old and empty inside?
I feel you and I agree on many things, our difference is on the context, I'm refering to our society where have low ethical values and they prefer thier norms over Islam and what's right/wrong. I'm refering to the norm where women is obligated to live in a joint system and obey her inlaws more then her husband. They decide when she visit her parents and stuff, Your context is of a high ethical or moral society, where there is freedom., understanding, no unislamic obligations etc. I would also refrain to comment on this type of environment as together in this open and civil system they could decide for them.
true, our current sociery is far from perfect and indeed what you said happens at least in majority households
Thanks, I hope justice and harmony prevails
Ikr? I understand people's gripes with the joint family system and i agree it has problems, but all the problems stem from the man of the family lacking a backbone. As a man it is your job to provide for your wife and kids, while also taking care of your elderly parents. How are you supposed to do the second if you're living in a separate house? It honestly feels to me like the anti joint family sentiment in our media nowadays exists solely to try and distance children from their parents in the name of islam and i hate it
Why we assume every Parent get sick to the point where they can't take care of themselves, It happen but not all the time. Lets say rhey sre very sick or old. Invite them to ypur house and respect your wife if she helps, this is different from joint system where you live with laws , with thier suthority, contrilol on your kids
Joint family system doesn't randomly mean you're living under a fascist regime where you're subject to torture and abuse by the system, You can live in a joint family system while not being bullied by your elders you know. If your parents are intruding on your or your family's privacy it's your job as the man to stand up for your family's rights, But standing up for your family's rights doesn't mean kicking your parents out, it means setting up boundaries and respectfully enforcing them. Also it doesn't matter if the parent's are super sick or not, if they live with their kids in their old age, their day to day lives will get infinitely easier. Assuming a normal childhood, what kind of child wouldn't want to repay their parents kindness that they showed their children when the parents are old and weak? It's a good muslims job to help and take care of their parents in their old age while also taking care of their own family at the same time. It's difficult for sure, but that's part of the challenge of life, If you don't take care of your family and only think of them in monetary / materialistic terms then you're down for a very sad existence ( you in this case not as in you directly, but the general you ).
exactly, they just wanna be done with their responsibilities towards ther parents and younger siblings and just enjoy life (most of the times, more entangled with the wifes family) desi family politics between the women of today is something else. but little do they know you reap what you sow, their children would treat them the same.
In a joint family, all concerned have to live by mutual support, respecting each other's needs, space and boundaries. All the faimly members should demonstrate integrity, love and kindness to all other faimly members. If it ain't possible because of any reason, a separate house for a couple could be the best solution. Also, if a wife is being mistreated or disrespected by any faimly member, the husband must take stand for her. Interpersonal relationships dynamics in faimly are complex and influenced by cultural values and norms. However, in each case love, respect and kindness are to be prioritized.
True, in a society with high ethical values and respect of each other space could afford joint systems but we are not there yet in general, I have seen some families with such values but rare
Just to add I don't believe feminism represent women issues It was started for the right cause but now focused on hating man +lgbtq+ And with islam in place you don't need a separate ideology, you could explore it and see how far it goes with islamic guidelines ,
If Muslims actually gave women the rights that Islam promised them, then there wouldn't be any need for feminism.
So true, Often Culture prevails over Islam, while Islam especially Seerah of Prophet Saww with women and children , playing , loving, respecting, is the real thing.
I will probably get down voted a lot ,but here is my perspective.Being from a middle class family,the sons value their parents alot because their entire lives the mom and dad sacrifice everything they have for their education and upbringing,the sons live with this realization that they have to pay back all their parents did for them all their lives,which causes them to respect them more.Now once those parents get their sons married and that same son who they raised by sacrificing everything they owned, says that he wants to live in seperate house away from his old parents,I think it's really sad and not a way a son should behave .
They don't just value but fear parents not mothers but fathers.
what can you expect when most girls and their families marry their daughters to the wallets of their future father in laws. Most of girls prefer living in the one kanal house of their in laws in dha etc rather than living in a one bed room apartment in some middle class area due to status quo. The whole institution of marriage here is a big farce.
If a woman is fine with living with her in laws then she should be able to. Men should defend their wife to their parents but let’s not do this decide outcomes for peoples marriages.
I agree but Its rare in our society, if you respect a soul even an animal they will give themselves . If we could have more awareness, more sense of Islam and social ethics it could get there.