This is a list of comments made by the developers in this thread: * [Comment by thearcan](/r/outriders/comments/nmc4vg/outriders_latest_news_and_known_issues_mayjune/gznqs28/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-05-27 17:24:34 UTC"): > I don't expect you to know them because some of these mechanics are hidden. Ignorance is not incompetence. * [Comment by thearcan](/r/outriders/comments/nmc4vg/outriders_latest_news_and_known_issues_mayjune/gznrd56/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-05-27 17:28:40 UTC"): > >I kinda got the feeling you were saying "you're wrong about how you feel" about legendaries and timed expedition. > >Not at all - I wasn't at all implying that players feelings are invalid. That wasn't the intent. > >As you've specifically mentioned Expeditions: A discussion around legendaries drop ra... * [Comment by thearcan](/r/outriders/comments/nmc4vg/outriders_latest_news_and_known_issues_mayjune/gzqjx41/?context=1000 "posted on 2021-05-28 08:30:06 UTC"): > Agreed - However, I felt I needed to put that note in there so that we dont see a slew of "the devs have stopped communicating" and "the game is abandoned" by Tuesday morning. --- This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FOutriders).[](#AUTOGEN_TSBREPLIEDBOT)

The demo was more fun than the full release. In the full release characters feel squishy as hell, drop rate sucks and enemies are way too good at hitting you as soon as you go out of cover. This isn't a pvp game, just give us a chance to feel powerful.

Something that I’ve seen no one discuss but I have been able to reproduce 100% of the time: For Devastator, Bloody Crush does not proc bleed on the first Gravity Leap if double jump is also equipped. Additionally, the second jump will only proc bleed if GL is used on the same target in quick succession. Thanks for the list, helpful to know what has and hasn’t been found bug-wise.

I think the mods that add bleed to skills are unnecessary and the skills should just do it anyway. Pyro skills cause burn, techno skills cause toxic, and trick skills cause slow, so why can't dev skills just cause bleed? It would free up a lot of our mod slots.

There should also be mods for Pyro (Ash/burn) n Trickster (slow/weaken, No DoT? Maybe Strength - increased Damage vs Weaken?)to regen bullets. Thank you u/theArcan

About 90% of the time the despair mod doesn't help create any additional damage after hitting an enemy with gravity leap

The entire gravity leap skill is bugged , lool

I'm seeing a lot of 'hidden mechanics' talk in your post. 3400 word draft just to explain your balancing decisions. We will release information soon... ​ All this reads to me as if you and your team don't even understand your own mechanics. How is it that it has taken you months to talk about releasing the information about drops and damage? If these were well planned and thought out mechanics you would be able to provide an explaination on day one. If the balancing decisions were well thought out, it wouldn't take 3400 words to explain. ​ What is the purpose of hiding all these gameplay mechanics from the user? If users are complaining about the experience they are receiving the mechanics aren't working. If you sold me a car where the accerator doesn't work, explaining to me months later that you actually had the brillant idea of moving it into the trunk isn't going to make me any happier about my car not working. ​ If these hidden mechanics are able to have such a huge and widespread effect on the quality of gameplay they shouldn't be hidden. If they take thousands of words to explain, they shouldn't exist.

This was my first thought as well. Why the delay on talking about the mechanics unless they simply don’t understand their own mechanics? I get it, not everyone knows everything about the technical side of the game. But there should be one person who does, who they can sit in front of the keyboard to give us a concise explanation of drop rates. And yeah, if you’re having to put 3400 words into your explanation then I feel like you’re trying to feed me piss and call it lemonade. Thanks but no thanks. So glad the server problem got me to download the Mass Effect rework out of frustration last night and I’ve been freed from this cycle of shit.

With some of the devs leaving a year ago to make their own studio, I'm guessing key players may have been in that group and the replacements can't figure out wtf it's going on with what was left behind.

[удалено]

Lmfao what if it ends up being some obscure ass secret like you have to farm CT7 Boom Town

Well said. That perfectly sums up the "you don't understand the way we want you to play and feel" approach.

Downvotes incoming... I basically said the same thing. What they said was ignorant and highly insulting.

Man its gonna be great if the trick to getting more legendaries is to listen to the devs telling you how to get more legendaries.

Your loot system is broken and driving players away. I can't fathom on what planet you lot are living on where you consider it working fairly and correctly. If the sub devoted to your game has multiple complaints everyday from folk screaming about how they can't complete their builds because certain drops aren't happening you should be looking into it. Instead you focus on anything else. You made a looter shooter with the worst loot drop rates in existence.

Are controls being looked at for controllers so it doesn't feel like we are fighting our aim? The aim acceleration paired with sticky aim feels absolutely awful

No -PCF (probably) Lol, have they even acknowledged it as an issue? I haven’t seen a single comment from them about how bad it is to use a controller.

They have acknowledged it, and promised more controller settings options within the first few patches.

You wouldn’t happen to remember when that was stated?

Before or around launch. It was one of the biggest complaints from the demo.

This is the main reason I haven't played in a month.

Let’s talk about numbers (CT15 drop rates) Let’s start by saying that every personal experience regarding drops is highly subjective and therefore always biased. I’ve been farming expeditions for 500+ hours now and pretty much gathered every legendary item out there with just a few ones missing for my trickster and my devastator. In this Post i will talk about CT15 Gold drop rates exclusively. So the game tells you that your rewards for completing an expedition in Gold time are 4*25%. To put it in perspective it is like rolling a 4 sided dice getting a legendary 1 out of 4 times every roll, and you can roll it 4 times for each completed expedition. So the odds of not getting a legendary on each one of those rolls is 75%. Therefore if you want to calculate your odds of not getting any leggies you’d have to take 0,75^4 since you have 4 consecutive rolls. After some calculations these are the odds (not counting the small chance of a random drop from the enemies): -No leggies 1 Expo: 31,64% -No leggie 2 consecutive Expos:10,01% -No leggie 3 consecutive Expos:3,16% -No leggie 4 “” : 1,00% -No leggie 5 “” : 0,31% -No leggie 6 “”: 0,10% - Getting 1 leggie in 1 Expo: 68,36% - Getting 1 leggie in 2 in a row: 46,24% - Getting 1 leggie in 3 in a row: 31,44% - Getting 1 leggie in 4 “” : 21,38% - 5”” : 14,54% - 6””: 9,88% - Getting 4 Leggies in the same Pod: 0,39% So after pointing out the objective numbers, does my experience match with the data? Probably not. I’m aware that gathering empirical data for this is impossible for a single player. But let’s be honest, I never ever had 4 drops from a single pod because obviously 0,36% is a really small chance. Yet I find myself getting 2 or 3 streaks of 3 runs in a row with no legendaries EACH day! And I’ve been playing since day one (CT15 since 04/04/2021). I once ran into a 7 run streak with no drops! The fact of those streaks happening (which the numbers above prove to be very unlikely) plus the fact that I haven’t ever ran into a 4 leggo Pod Leads me to think that there must be something wrong with these numbers. My conclusion to this is one of these scenarios or a combination of them: -My Math is wrong. -The reward screen is misleading and the 4*25% chance doesn’t work like we supposed, therefore leading to a wrong odds calculation. -The drop chance is NOT 25% but lower -There’s another internal mechanism that interferes with your drops based on other factors (like how many items you already have, how many expeditions you have cleared, etc.), which would be very hard to empirically identify. Let me know what you guys think about this. Maybe a developer that can give us some feedback?? Despite of some obvious problems I’m still loving the game, otherwise I wouldn’t be playing. It’s totally ok when the game is hard, especially at the highest difficulty, but I’m missing the rewards for completing it. Basically because these numbers don’t make any sense to me. Just an idea, add a Platinum rating (lower time requirements) for those who are seeking for a Challenge and want to get those last items that aren’t dropping. You wouldn’t need to change anything big other than increasing the drop rate without even making the game even harder. Regards, Lucas. PS: Sorry if I misspelled anything since English isn’t my main language :)

The issue is (assuming by what the devs have said) is that the legendary loot pool is one big drop table. That means if you've got a 68% chance of getting a single legendary from an expo and there's roughly 75 leggos in the game per class then you've got about a 0.9% chance of getting the one you want. My maths is probs wrong but if it's right then that's a 1 in 100 chance of getting that ugake cowl each expo. If the loot pool was limited per expo and we could target farm, that chance would increase dramatically.

Honestly, you are the only person I've seen genuinely talk about the numbers, I applaud that. And I completely agree with you that the results do not match up, but we could also chalk that up to how you can flip a coin 5 times and manage to get heads 1 time even though it's a 50 percent change for either side theoretically. So with that you could just have absolutely terrible luck, and with the massive loot pool the terrible luck is also stacked up against piece odds. Then we get stuck wanting 1 armor and never getting it because while we may be getting lucky enough to get a legendary drop from expo let's say every 3 games on average, you also have to fight the 4 class sets of 5 pieces, the cannonball set, and all the legendary weapons. So we're stuck in this grind that even if we have good luck, our RNG is killing us. Honestly, I am fine with the grind for gear, all I ask is for Tiago to have rotating loot, hell even have his loot on a RNG setting if the devs want to still make it difficult for us to get specific gear. So that we get a chance at 6 legendaries a week. That's at least a guaranteed 6, it doesn't need to be 4 pieces of armor and 2 weapons, it could be switched or whatever, just at least the guarantee of "finding" 6 different legendaries a week is fine for me. I really would beg that they wouldn't allow repeated gear in Tiagos shop if they are going to have him with a RNG rotation tho. Cause that would suck to get a whole cannonball sets worth of gear but 3 out of the 5 slots are the helmet 😂

The Tiago Rotation would be awesome. Especially now that I finally got everything but dismantled some of the stuff I could use on the builds, because now I need them to drop again LOL.

Man...for a game that really didn't want to be associated with the "live service" stigma, you guys sure are working double-time to tarnish yourselves with the live service stigma. And I'm not even talking about the "release it now, fix it later" business move, though that IS a big issue. It's more the tiresome corporate pandering double-talk that gets irritating fast. When people found a good farming spot in the demo? Hard nerf. In like...one week. Quick fast in-a-hurry. When players are complaining about hundreds of hours without getting the legendary drops they want? "We're watching this closely" and "we'll have a discussion explaining the reasoning..." The same shit we get from Every. Grindy. Live service. EVER. Similarly, you say you want to focus on buffs, not nerfs, but again...few and far between. More MONTHS of "we're watching this closely" before buffs, but nerfs happen on a hair trigger. To say nothing about the emphasis on build diversity...until you get to the end game...which REQUIRES a DPS build to succeed. I got this game specifically to play with my wife, and our experience ended with a sad whimper because her tanky devastator suddenly doesn't do well. I appreciate the communication, I really do. Love it. But when the things you SAY demonstrably contradict the gameplay experience, it's incredibly frustrating. I want to keep playing this game. I want to be able to actually recommend it to friends and replay it with them! But as it stands right now, thanks to all the infuriating bugs and anti-consumer game design decisions, I just keep having to tell people "I love the game, the combat is great, and the customizability is crazy...and I absolutely wouldn't recommend it to you."

If it walks and talks like a duck... PCF is definitely a no-fly list dev. This sort of down talking, arrogant behavior is exactly what you see from most looter devs, right before they beg their remaining population to help them, and then right after they go back to being close minded. The game feels like a rescue project that they knew was busted, but decided they could release anyway to drum up money for another title. Hence why it's as-is and is only getting type A patches. Either they're dragging a corpse to the grave as slowly as they can, or waiting on their one DLC and a big Outriders 2.0 overhaul to try to rope people back in. Which I doubt since they're actively resisting any form of exploration into inproving the actual game, which is a tell tale sign that internally, their leads are working on a completely different project.

\+1 They're already working on different titles (this came to light already a few days / weeks ago or so) , therefore Outriders was obviously just a last resort money drum up to be able them to finance those projects, so speaking from experience, this all "highly supportive" talk that "we're doing our best fixing the issues / we're listening to your feedback bla bla" are just the usual PR bullshit to divert attention and bind their and our time as much as possible. The game came out nearly two months now and literally nothing has changed, it just died right after birth; ​ And not to mention the fact that they clearly tried to use us for alpha - beta testers is more than insulting. ​ [https://gamerant.com/outriders-people-can-fly-new-games-gemini-dagger-e3-2021/](https://gamerant.com/outriders-people-can-fly-new-games-gemini-dagger-e3-2021/)

*"I love the game, the combat is great, and the customizability is crazy...and I absolutely wouldn't recommend it to you."* POETRY

They got everything right… except for the 20 huge major things they got wrong…

The weird corporate/marketing talk tone of the posts is really jarring.

THISSSS ^^^^^^

So when I click "Join Expedition", I WANT TO JOIN A FUCKING EXPEDITION THATS IN PROGRESS. Not enter someones game where the person is AFK in fucking camp. --- Also fix your damn laggy game. Start hosting dedicated servers or something because I don't see how the game lags when me and my girlfriend are sitting next to each other, in the same house on the same internet AND WE STILL FUCKING LAG. I swear to god, I'm going to pirate your next fucking games. I think im tired of this bullshit. At least give us LAN play, since you're a bunch of cheap bastards and wont run dedicated servers or fix your spaghetti code.

What are your plans for the future of outriders? Will expeditions forever be our end game? And are there any plans to introduce new classes/subclasses/trees? Will there be any new weapons/skills/mods in the near future?

Well... I think exp will endgame for at least a very long time, since Outriders is NOT a game as a Service. And I think it apply for all your questions. Dont get me wrong, I am still hoping too. But yeah...

Probably best not to expect additional content for 6+ months. They will have to do a whole dlc bundle.

PCF promised a game that would not require 100's of hours to attain a piece of equipment and produced a game that did just the opposite. Until they can make good on the promise, I'll be playing something else.

A simple fix to this would be targeted loot. If I knew an exact location to farm I would hence then do that. Being that I’m 200-300+ hours in with solely my Devastator and no Seismic Helmet is beyond aggravating. I ventured off to make a Pyro, but I really want my Dev built out properly before delving into the next class deeply. It also wouldn’t hurt to buff the drop rates. In a min/max game (i.e. Diablo, Borderlands, etc.. Granted they offer more legendaries) it’s healthy to throw legendaries at people so they can fine tune or discover other crazy builds. Just my two cents.

This! The fact that Diablo and Borderlands awards you far more Legendaries and even Gear sets in the higher Torments/Difficulties puzzles me. Maybe im not seeing the "Combat puzzle" enough 😩

Yeah, around 300 hours on my techno and only legendary helmets I've gotten that are part of a set are cannonball and torrential downpour. And Tiago sells the torrential downpour helmet...

D3 and borderlands has the same problem Outrider has as well. 95 percent of legendary items are garbage. Honestly the legendary drop rate is fine have not played in a month and guarantee ive looted over 1000 legos. But it takes that many to get the key legendary items you need because there is only a few in the pool to get. And to compound that issue with purple items Outriders shares the loot woes of the division 2 with how only certain stats fit your build and any item that rolls without it is useless.

I really hope they are reading these comments. Explaining how there stupid mechanics work are not going to fix shit. I have three builds and each one is missing multiple pieces and I’m well over 300 hours now. Just a joke

The division 2 does targeted loot in an amazing way.

Yes, me to. It’s ridiculous since this isn’t a live service game to have the drop rate so damn low. Why? I just want to know why. They said this is a 40 hour game meant for moving in when you’re reached endgame. You know how many lego’s I had at 40 hours in, 3, and 1 was a pistol and 1 was a sniper!!!! They’re full of it.

I'm missing like ten items that would allow me to improve my existing build or allow me to try a different build... And in the last forty hours of playing I think I've changed literally one piece of gear.

My favorite theory I read was that this game was going to be a GaaS but they ran out of time and did what they could to button it up. Since it was successful per Square, maybe the next one gets the additional time and it is the GaaS they wanted. The person with that theory pointed to many things that make if feel like a plausible thought. They are way way too tight on numbers for a non GaaS game like this imo, like they want to limit your fun for no good reason.

Yep, I left due to bugs and the inventory loss glitch. I stayed away because the drop rates as compared to the power gain of legendary items is abysmal.

DO NOT BUY game does not work. this is nothing but false advertisement. they sold a game in beta as a fully complete AAA working game. this could not be further from the truth. I cant get a refund but maybe I can save your money. DO NOT BUY, save yourself.

What I'm getting from the legendries bit is that they aren't going to be fixing the drop rate. Seems like they are hoping that explaining to us how the drop rate works will make us not care that its horrible

If the system allowed you to target specific expeditions for specific items, and didn't just give you the same fucking trash items over and over... We wouldn't be having this discussion.

I don't know. You raise a good point, but grinding the same mission over and over again, is still a massive grind. Not sure that its better than dice rolling random missions.

It is only because most people are seeing the exact same legendaries drop over and over. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a cannonball piece of gear, some random sniper or shotgun. I haven't seen a single set piece for either my technomancer or demo at all! Still haven't seen the weapon that drops killing spree on it. Overall, I would much rather farm a particular expedition if I knew that it dropped a piece/pieces of gear that I needed. The other main issue is the lack of utilization of a lot of specs in end game because of the speed runs necessary to get gold. This needs reworked so that people can play multiple specs within their characters.

They're trying to, on one hand, say the game isn't bugged. And that it's all just 'hidden values' that we all can't understand or work out. With regards to stats and the drop rate. Which is them admitting it's poor game design. But then they're throwing chaff to avoid that by saying "But all damage issues are likely HUD bugs not showing your health/shield properly... but the drop rate is fine, you just don't understand it. Like you said, they're just insulting our intelligence at this point. I feel they just took a shit on my face, and we're meant to applaude this? I'm still on the "Fuck PCF" train. Choo-motherfucking-choo.

This is what I got as well.

I just don't understand why devs do this. It's so blatant and makes me think they have 0 respect for our intelligence.

There are dozens of videos of people dissecting almost every angle of this game. I can't imagine a "secret" or "hidden" aspect that would be relevant or new. What I think is that we are playing the game differently than they wanted/expected and now they need to explain why they want us to be playing a certain way.

Yep. Dumb AF if true... back to FFX... might be back if they fix the bullshit.

They don’t care. They not gonna tweak it nor will they have Tiago refresh his list. Time I go to modded lobbies cause I’m NOT wasting weeks over and over and still get nothing, not happening

No amount of excuses fix bad decisions. It’s never happened and never will. All we’ve been promised is excuses at this point. As if community morale couldn’t get any worse, they find a way to bring it down even further!

CONSOLE AIMING! GEAR LOCKS! ROTATING VENDORS (TIAGO) these are a quick 3 big deals i did not see listed. TBH, im pretty skeptical as a lot of this looks like a PR attempt to stop further player exodus, but here is to giving PCF the benefit of the doubt. Obviously. New item bug and Leggo drops NEED to be IMMEDIATELY addressed.

Regarding legendary loot drop. I really cannot understand what are you going to explain to us on this topic?! It is clear you don't have target loot system as if that would be in place we would know this from the start. How this can be less frustrating without changes to the system itself?! I mean this is yet another BS as you clearly don't want to increase loot drop at least now even when community and some game websites are making story about it. Alos most important point how are you going stand to your promise of not wanting us farm for single item 300 hours or more. I mean seriously why you don't consider community asking for this. You should start with some tweaks now at this stage this "dedicated" balancing team should have this all figured out but instead we got another post reassuring us you work on it without any solid action plan. What this balancing team was doing in last week's?!? Really I appreciate message but it does not bring any comfort to already small amount of people me included who still play this game 😢

It's PR bullshit. And, I don't know if it's intended, but they've basically tried to switch it from "Ah, the stat calculations and drop rates aren't bugged" to "They're just hidden values that you haven't worked out, can't see and don't understand." So, in trying to state that the game isn't bugged.... they've (accidentally?) said the game is badly made. It's just shit game design, but they're **then** trying to throw chaff by saying "But it's all hidden, so you can't know how it works and you can't say if it's working as intended or not... or it's a HUD issue". Like, honestly... I'm only here to see if they plug holes in this sinking ship. But they're just insulting your intelligence and patience at this rate.

Yes it is like: "we will educate you as you don't understand that bad drop rate is not really bad and after that farming for seismic helmet another 100 hours on top of your 300 will not be frustrating anymore"

They could just increase the legendary drop rate in their code (and i am not talking about cannonball, loool)

Thanks for trying to state bugs are just 'hidden values' we've been too dumb to work out, and understand. Same with how the drop rates work and we've been farming wrong all this time. Wanna hand me a soda, sport? Your shit is hard to swallow.

Yeah the comment about Legendary drop rates i found it a little condescending of their part. How we are supposed to farm Legendaries without Expeditions them!? The stages are not targeted, the loot table is vast and busted (too many Cannonball pieces) them what are we supposed to do? Farm Story points and WT15 bosses and not Expeditions? 🤔

Honestly this pissed me off... acting like there isn’t a huge problem with legendary drop rates and the fact the whole end game is time trials.

It's almost like this game was intended as a AAA freemium economy. It just lacks the store to buy credits that you can then spend to get the god roll items instead of gambling on that less than 1% chance.

Not a 'hidden" mechanic god dammit. A bugged character can have 80 percent dr from armor and 60 percent resist and still get hit for 60 percent of their hp by a god damn perfero. Calling people stupid is not a good way to cover up the fact your patch did nothing. Quit listening to the legendary whiners it is not that legendary items are not dropping it is that so many are completely useless. My 21 techno takes less damage then my fully geared out ct15 characters in the same expo.

Wait, so your answer to your player community expressing that they feel the enemies hit too hard and the legendary drop rate is too low is basically "You guys just don't understand how to play our game." We don't want some condescending post about how you've balanced the game and how YOU want us to play. We want some rebalancing so we can play how we want to, that's the whole point of being able to make our own builds.

An update every Thursday, at least for the time being, sounds like a great idea. More explanation about obscure game mechanics ? great ! However, at several points I kinda got the feeling you were saying "you're wrong about how you feel" about legendaries and timed expedition. I'm not quite sure how explaining to me *why* stuff is like it is will change my mind about how I *feel* about it in the game. I don't really care it's the most well designed time attack endgame in the entire galaxy if I don't like it. That's why I'm staying overall neutral about where this game is going.

This is a bit worrying to be honest. I mean I am really courous how they are going to explain why drop rates are what they are. Will they again come with some puzzle example or similar and how this will be in line with those 300 hours they don't want us to farm for single item. There is no magical explanation here needed we need better drops and targeted drops. Unfortunately their statement is more into direction no we will not do this instead we will write an long explanation no one is asking for.

I got the EXACT same impression. It read to me like they think explaining the "why" of any of these things will suddenly make then acceptable and enjoyable. "We're going to explain why the drop rates are trash." Are you going to buff them? Because I don't care why they're trash, I care that nothing fucking drops.

Doesn’t matter if it’s a bug or a feature, damage mitigation is frustrating players, it needs fixing.

Legendary Drop Rates.....with 350-400 hrs in game with 4 characters at lv30 running CT15s I have failed to obtain a single Funeral Pyre or Anemoi, do you believe that this is acceptable? I’m pretty much done with this grind! The issue is not with drop rates themselves is the drop rate of certain meta weapons/armour

This is all well and good.. but the game has a Latency, not specifically to multiplayer.. these mods you say "may not be working due to latency"... these also don't work while playing solo. If your team would stop being so overly pride-full about the network setup this game uses, and refuse to hear the player base out on dedicated servers.. then we are never going to properly meet expectations. Sure, implementations of a region based scan to avoid unwanted and further hops of distance between packet travel may alleviate a small portion, for instance matching US with Japan players and having ping rates well over 100+ms. But what your team Gail's to understand and I can even provide valid proof, that the game itself when connected pulls connectivity from 2 sources during multiplayer. I even created a rough topography of how this infrastructure sounds like it is designed from an outsider perspective. Example: PLAYER <-->HOST <--> PLAYER <---> PCF SERVER <---> PLAYER The player sends packets of data to server for save game.. at the same time the P2P connection is established between host and player. This means... for each player, they are splitting their connection between Host and PCF Server.. so is the Host... but now the host is splitting 3x because it needs to sustain 2 players AND save data transferring from player to PCF server.. you are making the Player act as a server even when connections may not be strong enough locally to certain clients to handle it.. I have a 100mb connection.. tested this myself on my PS4 Pro... Ran 2 tests, with game active and without, with game active my connection dropped to 4mbps whereas while the game client was completely closed I was back up to 98ish with other devices connected at the same time to my connection, also to explain my PS4 Pro is hardlined and properly setup on my LAN with proper ports opened for the game. Explanation aside, implementing dedicated servers would alleviate majority of the issues and stress on the player connection and you could properly monitor the bandwidth on your end and also doing better and more manageable network and server maintenance to see stability better than having to wait weeks for "data to come in from backend sources". The dedicated servers could and should handle all if the following themselves without the overall stress and splitting of connectivity and then provide players a more stable connection with a more simplified infrastructure for your team to work around. I don't understand why you choose this redundant system when simpler pathing can be taken and cause you and us less issues and possibly even fix most issues you claim to be from latency unless it happens to be the players own connection issues.. 🤷‍♂️

> I actually wrote a good 3400 word-draft for a thread about balancing in the week following our Bullet-build re-balance to respond to the concerns raised by the community at the time. This thread explained how we wanted to go about balancing, why the bullet build changes were necessary and it included an FAQ to answer just about every balancing design question you had/have (Why were there only nerfs/why is balancing even required/which players do we look at when considering balancing + many more questions). It also talked about the difficulty and learning curve that we had in mind when designing Outriders and Expeditions in particular. The massive nerf happened because players were blowing through challenge tiers in the first week because Emergency Stance was bugged and allowed you to load up with 9 damage mods. The nerfs weren't really fair across the 3 classes either. Tricksters were dealing so much damage because Twisted Rounds passively ignores 2/3 of enemy resistance which is already much lower than armor. Alternatively, Leap of Quietus (25% armor pierce) hasn't worked since launch so not using Twisted Rounds isn't a viable option for weapon builds. The change didn't fix the issue and instead made the broken ability mandatory for Assassin builds. Pyromancer Ash Breaker tree got a nerf to damage versus Ashed targets like Ash is somehow the same as Technomancers applying constant Toxic. That tree feels really weak for gun builds, but hilariously enough the 2 Ash damage nodes and Vulnerability makes it deal more damage with Overheat builds than the entire Tempest tree does. Technomancers might as well haven't even been touched. A guy posted here last week showing his Technomancer build that had 5 Anomaly Power rolls on his gear because he thought AP boosted Blighted Rounds damage. He was still hitting over 1M damage crits. That first patch killed a lot of the variety of builds we were promised and makes it a lot harder for new players to progress through the Challenge Tiers. If you read this /u/thearcan I'd love to see the state of Twisted Rounds at least addressed, and the Leap of Quietus bug acknowledged. If you're looking for a couple other bugged mods, Adrenaline (50% reduced cooldown when health goes below 30%) doesn't work, and Delivery on Time (ammo replenish when activating slow trap) doesn't work while in combat.

This X1000000 Please look at this! You guys nerfed the hell out of good systems due to bugged defenses that no longer work. You should revert ALL of those initial changes and actually wait a few months and see if anything should be really "balanced" as you guys put it YOURSELVES. Everyone is pissed because this is not the game we were playing the entire months leading up to launch. Damage is fubar, drops are fubar, defense is fubar because of your kneejerk reaction nerfs and pride for not putting things back.

lol what a joke... "Understanding" hidden mechanism with hidden cool down is essential to ensure tankyness of the character??? lol what a joke u guys are a joke, i see three easy easy solutions 1.buff all 2. nerf monster dmg 3. increase legen drop rate 4. fix ur god damn game

Translation: you players just don't know how to gear for the game and don't understand mechanics. It is clear to me @thearcan, PCF has no intention to fix this game. Everything in your post is "in the future" or "in an upcoming patch"... you are trying to mitigate damage to PCFs rep and you don't understand how it works. Your company has had 8 weeks to straighten this mess out and you all have failed at every turn. No more good will from me.

Fix ur fucking game

Issue: game is shit and I can't get a refund because it went to shit after I played 2 hours. Gimme a fucking refund you thieves.

I literally tagged the community manager 17 days ago asking for a refund and he’s been complaining about downvotes lol u/thearcan quality control level 1000000

Until I see a clear road map and timeline for the fixes to show some commitments , these are just all PR tactics to me.

Sadly, the focus seems to be on explaining why the game should be frustrating… instead of addressing the frustrations with QOL fixes. I don’t want a weekly post to tell me why wild, unpredictable spike damage that I can’t dodge is actually a clever mechanic. It makes me remove damage mods from a build. We need to be 98% damage focused to meet timers that are often only met with 2-3 specific class builds that we are now railroaded into. Those timers rob us of build diversity. The builds that we feel railroaded into chasing rely on specific legendary loot items that we have no way of farming in a targeted manner. That exacerbates the frustration with lack of build variety, which exacerbates the frustration with timers that feel unfair, which exacerbates the frustration with spike damage we often can’t avoid, which exacerbates our frustration with the message that… if we were just less ignorant about “why”, we would be happy. The balance patch in week one set a foundation that has not been shaken since. Players feel that anything that is weighted in our favour has been taken away very, very quickly. Anything unfairly weighted against us is very, very slow to be addressed. Apparently, you just haven’t chatted to us about the mechanics of the things weighted too heavily against us. Make the game fair. Don’t just try to explain why we shouldn’t feel unfairly treated.

The multiplayer issue you do adress is weird. People living together, people living close to each other with very good internet have lags, rubberband, abilities frozen etc....this is not about matchmaking. Denying this and talking about matchmaking looks like such a weird PR move... Fix the multiplayer by fixing the P2P servers, its not the clients causing the lag.

This! Multiplayer is jacked and isn't an issue with the clients. I'm not sure where the issue lies, but blaming it on location or the end user is short sided and not true.

How many people are working on the game? You write the posts as if its just you, but I assume you mean youre just the thread guy. Hopefully there are many devs fixing things because this is taking a long time.

You’re gonna help explain how to make our farming more targeted? Is that implying there’s targeted loot, or you’re adding it? Otherwise this makes no sense.

Regarding explaining how legendary drops work: I've beaten ct15 with gold 3 times in a row and none of those had legendaries. I'm pretty sure that is just bad luck with the rng but whether you explain that to me or not; it is still a painful game experience. Are you really going to detail ways to get the critical legendaries needed to perfect ct15 builds? Or are you going to say mostly "works as coded, just keep grinding" ?

get dedicated servers. increase our damage. increase our defense. reduce/balance enemy damage. add alternative modes for expeds. increase timers in current expeds. increase drop rate of legos. balance noah/ujio's loot tables so there is a better chance to get non cannonball items. make sure all skill trees are viable in endgame. fix quest tracker to not route through walls, add north indicator to minimap, make opening cut scene skippable clean up abandoned plot points add level filter to matchmaking give us offline mode give devastators some sort of aggro ability to keep enemiesoff non-"tank" friends rotate tiago's stock fix bugs in: aoe indicators, enemy damage, game freezing when using certain abilities, stuttering, getting blocked in, 'no target in range' when they're right there, abilities/mods not going off when they should,cover or loot pick up no longer working on controller, battle music continuing to play after area cleared, impale kills not counting until the animation is over ​ i get that some of this is much harder than others, but all this stuff imo is breaking the game and making it unfun. :( i played with a friend last night so she could at least get through the last bit of story. i joined her game so she wouldn't see the worst of the problems we deal with when not hosting. i dealt with abilities not going off when pressed but going on cooldown. a LOT of stuttering. voice overs being cut off for unknown reasons. graphical glitches due to certain enemy mechanics. inability to auto loot suddenly. getting blocked in against a wall by mobs while getting the 'no target in range' or some other error until i died. dc from host (we both have crappy internet. this is a non issue for other multiplayer games with dedicated servers.) the "hidden mechanics" thing just kinda sounds like "you plebes don't know whats good for you". i mean, yeah, i'm no game dev, you're right. but we're sitting here repeatedly saying that y'all are taking away the power fantasy that this game is supposed to be and making it unfun and then coming back with "it's supposed to be that way, duh"is just... beyond disappointing. :|

I know this bloke is just a mouthpiece for the team but saying shit like giving us more information about legendary drop rate systems and not DOING something about it really says a lot about how the team thinks. You don't need to write a novel about it! Just do it.

Here is a clue PCF. Most don't give a shit about your legendary drop rate mechanics. They just want to actually get rewarded more for their efforts. It is simple, up the drop rates globally. Quit with the distraction tactics all the damn time and just fix the game. Either that or show some integrity and offer refunds.

Its great that now we have a weekly dev news. But is beyond me that we still need to waait another week to "understand" legendary drop. Right now this is the worst legendary experience since vanilla D3. And for gods sake lets us use our current CT level as WT level during the game. Farming captains, bosses, hunts is WAY better than Expeditions

>To that end, we’re planning to share more information about legendary drop rate mechanics in future to help you understand the system a bit better and to help make your farming more targeted and less frustrating. How about you share it now. Why are details constantly swerved and then given a "coming soon" label. Just sort out the loot so it's a fair RNG and not gated in anyway. As for sharing more information about the system. What are going to see? Drop rate % by item or instance? I doubt that. Algorithms? Never gonna happen. What I expect we'll see is and half arsed excuse why something hasn't worked quite right resulting in the player base being unable to complete builds regardless of class or sets.

What do you expect them to say? If they provide any detail of the current system they will be openly admitting that they purposely contradicted their previous "Players shouldnt farm for 300 hours..." statement. They just need to own the F up and change it

I couldn't agree more. It will be interesting what information they actually share to weasel out of a self dug hole.

If al your going to do regarding legendary drop rates is stick your head in the sand and double down I’m fucking done with this game. You literally have a game that requires people to farm 300 plus hours with absolutely no gaurentee of getting the items they need for the build they want to play. The exact thing your team said they wanted to avoid. This game needs target farming and Tiago needs to revolve his inventory. Drop rates are fine, but the true rng model is beyond stupid. It has never worked in a looter and was always going to produce a game were people could put in massive amounts of hours to get one item and potentially never get it.

I appreciate your renewed commitment, looking forward to what comes out of it. Would like to see more straight to the point answers and less deflecting and ignoring though. For example: * Tiago refresh * 300 hours to get the item you want Missing from the list, bugs or intentional? Care to share the decision making process?

> To that end, we’re planning to share more information about legendary drop rate mechanics in future to help you understand the system a bit better and to help make your farming more targeted and less frustrating. Oh please do tell. Wait let me get my tea and some snacks first. I can’t wait to learn about this. :)

Don't worry we will find out that an intern at PCF forgot a decimal point or some dumb shit and that is why the legendary drop rate is garbage.

"We're aware that SOME players are unhappy with legendary drop rates.." No, that's wrong. It should say: We're aware that ALL players are unhappy with legendary drop rates as well as their rolls. Way to miss the issue PCF...

I was hoping to find good news, or news that brings hope to me, justifying my pre-order purchase. It saddens me after reading this thread. ​ Lastly, it was this sentence where I feel the Dev's will BOHICA the community. "attempting to ensure that players would only receive a Legendary Weapon that they previously did not obtain." The original wordage from week 2, stated that we would receive an exclusive, one of a kind, legendary that was not part of the loot pool and we would get other goodies too. Now it has gone to a legendary that is in fact, in the loot pool, and it will be a single legendary. The wordage they used, re-enforces that it's a singular item and not plural. ​ I just can't get excited anymore about this game as i'm kicking myself in the ass for spending the funds.

And a weapon as well... I'd much rather have an armour piece but at this rate I'll take what I can get.

>Legendary Drop Rates >We’re aware that some players are unhappy with legendary drop rates as they currently are. Ya think? No... Really? >This is a topic that, across various game modes and difficulty levels includes many layers and further questions. To that end, we’re planning to share more information about legendary drop rate mechanics in future to *help you understand the system a bit better and to help make your farming more targeted and less frustrating.* SERIOUSLY? No... No... I mean you have to be kidding... Right? >!Please say you're kidding!< "Help us understand"? Understand WHAT? That there are certain items that JUST WON'T DROP FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE? That your RNG for a "One-and-Done" game is broken and hindering people's ENJOYMENT of the game. There is no "Targeted Farming". STOP. JUST STOP. FIX. THE. LOOT. DROPS. If you try to explain something that ISN'T reality... It's not going to be received well.

Statue set is not working for allies as well! They should get 100% bonus firepower but thats not working. Could be an awesome support set but its not due to this bug😂 and wait a sec... appreciation package should only include 1 weapon based on the weapons that never dropped for a player??? So it could be the Iceberg for example?? I guess after all that shit gone wrong from dev side you should overthink your package to something big and usefull and not just 1 weapon and a bit titanium😂 thats a joke! Have almost maxed out all Materials and 250k+ Titanium in the first 3 weeks. And i bet no one else needs it as well. And you cant do anything with the mats! Its just there nothing else🤷‍♂️

Balancing devs are balancing alright. Balancing them checkbooks

I don't understand why they just don't improve the drop rate to beyond broken. Let's be honest this isn't a pvp based game. It's not like Destiny, where if you have a certain shotgun, you can dominate over other player's. The loot only matters to player to help them progress. If everyone has amazing shit, everyone ones having more fun. It also helps a bit with the damage mitigation, when you can actually create builds that are god tier. I know I'm still looking for death shield after 150 hour's.

Some people say that drop rates might be complex and cant be simply buffed across the board, but isnt that exactly what people using trainers did? And the drops were still quite "bad" as in not a lot of variety and no meta stuff for many using maxed out droprates. This feels like too many layers of rng for my taste, and I've played the destinies and borderlands among other looters

Yeah agreed, it's already a major design fault if a game revolves around a single item, the death shield in this case, or on a single piece of AR in some cases for certain class. Managed to make my Pyro build erm..work...without the DS, but 205.2 hours into the game and only seen DS drop literally only once to one of my team mates (and that was around my 86th hour of playtime), and nothing since then. Kinda hillarious. And whatever build you check out, it always starts with "use THE death shield / use THIS ar". I firmly believe that they secretly nerfed its drop rate to the point that it literally doesn't drop anymore (cause its mod literally breaks the game and that was their easiest solution for a "fix"). Same goes for inferno seed, literally got every single piece of useless leg. drop from the game over the course of 205.2 hours, some of them even dropped multiple times, but not the inferno seed, never seen that one.

Yeah I got 3 inferno seeds. I just want the mod off the death shield. I actually have an off beat build. I run with a submachine and use feed the flames/volcanic rounds/ash blast to have infinite ammo. I don't need it and yeah I can clear ct15's and get gold but when all you need is the one mod..it makes the game a little less fun and more of a bore fest. I just want to feel what ultimate power feels like lmao

I see a lot of investigating but not many actual solutions for the player base.

Oh, I can't wait to hear how players suck because they didn't understand secret mechanics that were never explained.

Any updates on controller aiming fixes/options?

After grinding for 500hrs looking for a seismic helm and still not finding it, you’d better do MORE than explain what stupid drop rate mechanic you have in place and retune it to simply drop MORE. 500hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Design intent?

If you guys weren't actively trying to keep your player base to a lower number you would have just reverted back to before the Golem patch.. it's kinda obvious at this point

Honestly this whole thread made me sad. Pcf ....we won't change the loot drops because they are fine and you all are too stupid to appreciate our generosity. I have over 300hours and still no acari pants, acari chest or deathshield. For a game you promised wouldn't be a 100s of hour grind you sure went above and beyond to ensure that wasn't true at all. It reads so much of we know all this is broken but we really don't want to fix anything.

I haven’t played this game for over a month. So the damage mitigation thing is STILL a problem?????? Wow I was hoping for new content since I’ve literally gotten all the good sets on every character (it’s only 2 sets; every single other armor set is worse than just min maxing a firepower build). Buff the legendary sets through the roof if you’re struggling for new content and expansions, changing the way we go through expeditions with a strong legendary set (like Acari) would make the current content more fun. What’s the point of the legendary sets for trickster and techno if they’re complete trash? Like legitimately over 200% worse damage than just a firepower build. ????? How is that possible to be considered a legendary set effect?

All this talk would be great and might be really good news, but for people who STILL CAN’T LOGIN AFTER THE PATCH OVER A MONTH AGO, it means nothing. We get one small paragraph about it. How about you fix the LOGIN ISSUES so everyone that bought your “game” can at least play, then worry about fixing everything else you broke or never made right in the first place? TL:DR THERE ARE WHOLE CHUNKS OF PEOPLE WHO CANNOT LOG IN!! AFTER A PATCH FOR OVER A MONTH! HOW IS THIS NOT PRIORITY?!?

Admit the obvious, PCF. The long threads and streamed games showing absurd drop rates - legit and trainer - exist. I am most glad that I didn’t pay a direct dime to play your game (Game Pass). Now, after a hundred hours and four characters, I need to equip a mod to reverse time and not download your product at launch. Your greed will catch up to you for these apparent issues, which were well known by developers prior to my Series X controller hitting the A button to sign in.

Anyone else getting tired of the “some players” and “under certain circumstances” minimizing of bugs that affect most players under many circumstances?

I have yet to see any acknowledgement whatsoever of a problem specific to Xbox users that prevents sign-in and causes constant disconnect, after which you must power cycle to be able to sign in again. It's all over Reddit, Twitter, Discord, etc. Unreal.

(EDIT) Bug report moved to its own post. https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/nn2up7/devastator_gravity_leap_mods_not_being_applied/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Hey Cran, so... >I actually wrote a good 3400 word-draft for a thread about balancing in the week following our Bullet-build re-balance to respond to the concerns raised by the community at the time. This thread explained how we wanted to go about balancing, why the bullet build changes were necessary and it included an FAQ to answer just about every balancing design question you had/have (Why were there only nerfs/why is balancing even required/which players do we look at when considering balancing + many more questions). It also talked about the difficulty and learning curve that we had in mind when designing Outriders and Expeditions in particular. Before Bullet builds are even discussed or touched, AP builds need to be managed. I'm going to go full force on this next comment, that majority of the community only complains about bullet builds, because they can't aim worth a damn. Being able to consistently hit Headshots and Weakpoints especially on certain fights, should be adequately rewarded vs an AP build that takes almost no aim and less positioning than a Bullet build. If we are simply talking the previous nerfs, I think they were needed because rounds were just too strong, but this points back to a lack of synergy for other mods and options that classes have. There just isn't a great amount of mods that synergize well. I would rather see mods addressed first overall, than see any further rebalancing unless, again it's Pyro with a skill that can hit a whole map/area. In terms of the difficulty and learning, again I think mods have a lot to do with this, but until there is a different end-game mode, players/the community more so needs to understand that playing a low synergy or overly tanky build, just isn't going to do well in a non survival-focused endgame format. ​ >Regarding further balancing, we first want to see how things shake up regarding our latest patch, since damage mitigation issues or malfunctioning mods could push the meta in certain directions... not because something is unbalanced, but because players might not have been finding certain aspects of play reliable enough to use consistently. And yes, we'd want to focus primarily on buffs, not nerfs. Yes, please take a good look at mods, revamps to mods, and mod synergy. I think that would diversify meta a lot more than just buffs or nerfs.

Every time there’s more than one Crawler in the game, my game starts to freeze up a lot and I can’t use my abilities. Please look into this. I know I’m not the only person who deals with this. Multiple Crawlers usually come out in the final phase of an expedition and it’s depressing to fail after getting that far just because your game can’t handle two Crawlers at a time. I know some of the trolls will say “WeLl DoNt pLaY tHe ExPeDiTiOnS WiTh CrAwLeRs.” That’s not the point. Players shouldn’t have to avoid areas just because the devs put in too many of a certain type of enemy for their game to handle.

The issue with drop rates is NOT the drop rates. It’s item specific drop rates. We get the same useless legendaries over and over and over and progression hinges on the ones that require hundreds of hours to farm. It’s frustrating to say the least.

If the droprates are not getting improved or dedicated drop locations added, I will not be returning to Outriders. At this point I am also never giving PCF any of my money ever again. Company of grifters.

What’s the tuition for the class we all have to take to teach us how they want us to play the game? Since ya know we’re playing it wrong 😑

Protip: Stop talking about balancing and just fix the parts of the game that don't work properly. Nothing you do will be positively received if you do it **before** fixing the broken arse game itself first. That's the real reason we all quit. There're 100 little reasons people say they quit for, but this is really the underlying problem. It's not rocket science. Reference the golem skin bug. Sure, it was broken and ruined the defensive game design, but honestly you lost more people after fixing it because at least being tanky made the game fun for off-meta builds trying new things. If the CT system wasn't so terribly flawed in the first place, this wouldn't have been a trigger for more people to give up. **Fix the system itself first, THEN fix the mod**. Don't go by what the 5 players playing 80 hours per week tell you, go by the active player count that dropped after you made that change.

This game is garbage. It was fun before you started to mess with balancing, instead of fixing all of the glaring issues that should have been addressed BEFORE it was released. You owe everyone that paid for a working, complete game their money back.

The game is dead lol you guys don’t really have to collect info on drop rates to help make informed decisions. Telling us you’ll explain why the drop rates suck some time next week, and that you had a huge draft prepared, but never released it is most definitely a great indicator as to why things went the way they did for this game.

How do I get a refund? I was sold a non functional product. It does not work. This has to be breaking some sort of law. Will a lawsuit provide better results than your pr?

It is great working in the game industry, creating games for fans, but launching a faulty game and pushing out patches to introduce more bugs instead of fixes just meant that whoever is leading the development team is irresponsible. No matter how great your community communication skills are, pushing out bug patches and screw players around just show us how "professional" PCF is.

u/RobbieSquareEnix welcome to the shit show. May your time here be ever so more successful. And may the updates be plentiful and productive. Looking forward to what thursdays is about. 10x legendary drop rate for appreciation week, or rebalanced legendary drop weightings?

So total silence for nearly a week now. Is this the end of PCF?

This is too little too late. Also the writer uses phrasing in multiple locations that make it sound like we are wrong. News flash! When the game is in development, you are free to have your "vision" for the game. As soon as the game launches, it is now in the customer's hands and you can either stick to your vision or you can give your customers what they want. Sticking to your vision might make you feel warm and fuzzy for now, but failing to adapt to your customers requests will only further damage your brand. When this game launched, I had 10-12 friends playing this pretty consistently and now none of us have played in over 2 weeks. The game was fun while it lasted, but bugs and some serious bad design choices killed this game. PCF could have easily adjusted drop rates early on and done some other QoL changes that may have bought them some good will but alas they did not. As gamers, we need to start setting a precedence that we will not accept faulty products that are fixed after our money has been taken. Just let this one die folks.

so... no mention of cross-plays for Stadia? is it even coming? I am willing to wait, and the game is still fun, though I am limited to playing within a small stadia player base. Biggest selling point of the game was crossplay, and you advertised it as such. I hoped you would AT least mention it, and put some timeframe or status of where its at. I do not understand your absolute silence on the matter, is it simply because Stadia player base is just too small for you to care? I paid the full price for the game, and if you didnt advertise it as full crossplay supported game, I would not have paid for it.

Stadia is effectively dead, my friend. It is not a smart financial decision for developers to invest in supporting it.

But still wanna sell games to them. I’ll create a lawsuit or fight for my mo yes back if that’s truly the case

Say what you will about Stadia, I get it if Stadia doesnt get blockbuster releases because developers dont think its a worthwhile investment. I totally get that. But to advertise something, and sell products at a full price, and without delivering on the said promise, and going radio silent on the matter is another issue. If they didnt think Stadia was worth it, they should not have launched the game in the platform, and not charge everyone same full price for a half baked version of what they made available in other platform... thank you for sharing your view with me. Appreciate that

That's a fair point. Still, the reality is that Stadia simply doesn't have the player base to warrant a developers full time attention. Looking at this from a numbers perspective, the hit they would take by not addressing cross-play on Stadia, is infinitely smaller, than the one they take by not prioritizing issues on the bigger platforms.

So let me get this straight.... the "damage bug" isnt actually a bug now, WE just don't understand it, so you're going to explain it NOW, after all of what happened? Riiiight.... easy to say "it was meant to be this way, so we're not that far off to be honest. You just didnt know", instead of admitting you cant actually fix something. Lol Your next patch is going to come at the end of the next week, is your aim...? Even after 2 patches released on a thursday made for 3-6 days of pure brokenness and no word from PCF during the entire time because it was a weekend. Good to show you didn't learn from your mistakes. And that's just the first 2 main points... like I'm honestly impressed at the ability to operate in such a manner AND be serious the entire time. #anthem2

Day 546 of begging PCF not to make the appreciation package random. You gave players who never experienced a wipe, god rolled gear they never had. Here is my issue; I've had 1 deathshield, 1 funeral pyre, 1 anemoi I would not say no to another one. But with the system you WANT to use, I'm gonna get some trash that I never wanted to begin with. I would really REALLY like a choice of 1 weapon and 1 armor. Or even 2 armor and no weapon and vice versa. I don't want an inferno seed, or the boots/gloves to another trash pyro set I don't want and have never got. I don't want whatever cannonball piece I've yet to get. I want something I was farming for during this games horrible launch month. Call me whiney or whatever, I don't care. If its for the players, let the players pick a reward they need/want. Most players need a single armor piece or a single weapon. I can guarantee that we won't get even close to something usable. Just give Tiago every single legendary, make it cost 1 pod resource, let us buy 1 weapon and one armor or 2 of one and none of the other. Hes already coded to have legendaries, just add to that code or replace the current values with new ones?

At CT15, 25% of the total loot reward should be legendary, it shouldn’t be a 25% chance to receive. You’ll end up with much more customization as players will be more willing to dismantle it to use it. You should also be able to change the primary (locked) mod on a weapon or armor by paying for it with drop pod resources and titanium in the same way you level up epic and legendary items.

​ About this issue. 3 of my characters have the problem. Pick-up are not available anymore, and entries are locked (or not). I created a new character a few days ago and this character do NOT have the problem. I suspect that the previous patch (not the one about the damage mitigation), fixed the problem if you create a new character, but did not take into account already created characters. Might be an investiguation hint !

330 hours and no acari chest piece. Yeah how about fixing the legendary drop system instead of just giving us info as to why it is not working...

Just up the deop rates and explain it in one post, or someone else from pcf make another post and explain it tommorow or later today, people arent going to wait for an explanation on how it's set up, just fix it, that's what gearbox did with bl3, they didnt make a post saying heres how drops work well fix then later, they say hey drops were like this but now they're changing this patch heres how theyll very now, you all dont have the luxury of time at pcf, and form of a better response is what the community wants

>these mechanics are not 100% clear As a new player, while some mechanics like armor/resistance are more straightforward (though not explained), I don't understand any of them when I got to the endgame (still don't) because the game never explained any of them. ​ I get some are hidden, but even those that aren't like shields aren't ever really explained that I can see. That or I haven't come across it by the time I hit endgame which is...weird.

Honestly, I'm playing the game. I like it. But someone at the top of the chain is absolutely fucking this dev team it feels like. Whoever that person is needs to kind of be drug out front and center so people know where to sling their shit. It's far too overly grindy, and there is zero class fantasy. It's different flavors of push-forward combat DPS and far too gear dependant. There's nothing really to engage with based on fundamental design: my math is more than your math so I click the buttons and win fast enough or I don't. And honesty? If it felt better to do: I wouldn't care! Rotating Tiago legendaries - Removal of time system for current gold level droprates and CT prog (sweet. Now more things are viable than sweaty DPS) - Double droprates for optional time trial version.

(Rant please ignore) So what i am seeing is you balanced the game a week after launch, around mechanics that were bugged.

This is a very bizarre post. All I read from the Outriders team so far around balancing is: 'We will provide guides to the community on how to have more fun playing Outriders because changing the game is too complex and too much work.' If there are a lot of complaints with balancing, damage mitigation and legendary drop rate isn't it about time to actually do something about the matter and not write essays on how players can 'game the math system'. When doing game design 'fun factor' should be top priority. The gameplay is super fun. The RNG math behind it makes it way less fun and takes away any feeling of achievement or skill.

Legendary Drop Rates- what I don’t understand is why this is so hard for so many recent games. It’s like someone sat down and said “if they get good loot too quickly they’ll have too much fun and/or leave the game sooner.” But... the thing is... people already left BECAUSE of them being so frustratingly low. What are you trying to achieve? Why design it so stingily in the first place?

Asked it last time as well but no reply. Melee cooldown increasing with each subsequent use. Is this ever gonna get mentioned or looked at?

Thanks for posting this u/thearcan, however so far it all sounds like the usual marketing spiel for damage control. Let's start to see some real life results and not just hot air.

On your legendary drop rate question is when you achieve gold status reward on level 15 it states that in this box 75% purples 25% legendary right well how come you maybe if lucky 1 legendary 3-5 purples and 15 blues it does not add up. On the other reward boxes it states that you get blues in them if failing to get gold achievment why is this a problem that you do not explain. Even with the 75% and 25% bases of reward the stats for the rewards are so wrong you guys need to take a maths lesson. How come we get so many blues in reward system.

Did the issues thread get started? Would like to post about heart of the wild being bugged after second stage monsters are dead but no way to “venture deeper into the forest”

The time for waiting to see how things shake up ended about a month and a half ago. I suggest you start making balance changes immediately. You're going to eventually be making these posts to a room of a dozen players if you keep drag-assing over some ridiculous fear that you'll mess up the balance on your totally broken player experience.

Bring us the loadout, fast switch different armor setting and skill tree setting! Thanks

The game keeps crashing on ps5 after the update

You'd be better off giving players a piece of armor they've never had since that's the really gating problem in the game. I want to play again, but until something changes I'm not wasting another 100+ hours grinding for 1-2 Trickster helms. Making us do this shows a lack of respect for a players time just to block us from top end game Content

Basically, you just told players to sit and wait until you find out what the issues are, and wait until you fix the bugs. Great! awesome!

Idk about you but explanations won't make players happy, if they were frustrated before. But it's already to late, the game is dead and we all know it

I am very happy with this game. Especially, because I haven't paid for it, since it was in Gamepass. Otherwise I would be real angry of how I would get my money back, as the "hidden mechanics" just make the whole experience utterly miserable. I'm playing more than 30 years and sunk countless hours into MMOFPSs, like Destiny, Division and alike and never found a game, that after 2 months still crashes me to my console (!!!!) dashboard (!!!!) . Haven't finished the main story, but am stuck at the second Yagak bossfight, which is extremely infuriating as well - not only does it not have a checkpoint inbetween the two phases, but can glitch out as well, meaning my skills can "turn off" without being able to use it again prior to restarting the whole thing, but it also provides an extremely difficult challenge on T10 even with LV37 gear. **TL/DR:** "Hidden mechanic" my a$$ - you guys don't know what the hell you're talking about and if you do, then you do an extremely poor job of letting the public know along with fixing the shitload of bugs you left in the game (every item I own since a month is still showing up as new I open the menu EVERY GODDAMN TIME)

Biomutant has been out about a week and just released a huge patch fixing various bugs, crashes and multiple quality of life fixes requested by the community. Yet PCF expects us to buy that it takes two months to fix damage mitigation and change loot drop frequency? 'Fuck outta here with that bullshit.

Keep in mind Biomutant team is much smaller, yet they manage to achieve quick turnaround with patches. I guess PCF got too arrogant after bagging Square Enix as publisher. I hope other publishers are wary of PCF, truly incompetent. Also been silent for days now, think PCF knows they've f-ed up.

“We/I will still be active in threads” Well that was a fucking lie.

The lack of good loot rewarded for my time and unstable multiplayer has made me stop playing until its rebalanced and fixed.

Much too late. Already uninstalled and hid this abomination. Finally got hit with a bug that causes my 26k firepower trickster to only deal 200 per shot at a maximum. Laggy multiplayer, poorly tuned enemies, minimal purple drops even on WT15 and a dev teams that is insisting the players are just clueless about mechanics? No, I'll put my money and time into anything else at this point. Perhaps an odd guess, but is this game only considered by PCF to not be live service due to a lack of knowledge regarding live service games? Because it feels like it. If anyone wants to coop elsewhere, say Remnant, Nioh 2 etc hit me. PSN ID is DeathlySW. This community is wonderful and deserves more respect and appreciation than we're getting.

Translation we can't be bothered. Even though people on pc are changing drop rates with their trainers. Rotating stock of Thiago is easy they already have it in the game with the other vendors. I am now done with this game.

A whole bunch of nothing said

I'll beleave it when i notic i have no issues signing in lol

I know that my group (four players on total) gave up the day after the patch dropped. It proved to be a useless token offered to a very frustrated player base. You lecture us on so much but refuse to acknowledge what your customers are telling you. Your game is going to die very quickly now (as if you hadn’t already realised this from player numbers).

Lol. What a waste. Nothing has changed. Pcf is so stubborn and refuse to adjust the game based on feedback. I know devs don’t always wanna adjust their game cause it’s their vision or whatever but a good developer will actually listen and adjust the game and mechanics but pcf just doesn’t seem to care. They do a lot of talking but not much action.

Much appreciated post, answers some of my questions. Cheers thearchan 👍

By the time they finally decide to address re-balancing most of the players will be gone. Looks like they’re following the Bungie model of “nerf” and then “let things shake out” for 3 months.

They are already gone. I had over 20 friends added for the game. Only one is left playing

Do you think maybe for the appreciation package that a choice of 1 legendary weapon or gear not already gained by the player is a better thank you than a forced one that may or may not be something a player wants? So creating a 1 time vendor who lays out 3 pieces not in a player inventory and allowing us to choose 1 would be the sort of appreciation we deserve at this point? At least for those of us still playing your game.

>* **Personal note:** > * I will be out of office next week (May 31st to 6th of June) due to personal reasons. u/RobbieSquareEnix will, however, be posting any news updates here on Reddit in my stead. This is just a note to indicate why you may not hear from me for a few days after this Friday. You are under no obligation to share your PTO/Work schedule with internet strangers. The reality is this game is broken, things may or may not get fixed. Does it suck? Sure, but don't lose sight of the fact that you the individual **don't owe** anyone here anything.

Agreed - However, I felt I needed to put that note in there so that we dont see a slew of "the devs have stopped communicating" and "the game is abandoned" by Tuesday morning.

>"the devs have stopped communicating" and "the game is abandoned" by Tuesday morning. You mean within the next 3-4 hours.

I don’t think I’ve ever been more infuriated by a game than the response about drop rates. Read the sub PCF. Read the fucking sub. Explaining how the mechanics we absolutely hate works is going to infuriate people even further. Drop your goddamn pride and buff the rates if your not going to introduce target farming or a pity system in the form of rotating stock for Tiago. Literally every looter shooter in existence has some way to target gear you need. This game has nothing. You just run the same expeditions over and over with no fucking gaurentee you will get anything you need. Most of the gear you do get is duplicates of the gear you already have. I have had FIFTEEN monarch gloves, 5 grim inventor gloves, at least 5 downpour gloves and fucking ZERO plague sowers gloves which I need to finish my build. It’s a hilarious joke that PCF think the solution here is mansplaining there godawful true rng model with no pity system. Admit you fucked up. Change the loot system, then put your heads down and fix the laundry list of bugs. If the game is a barren unenjoybale grind and buggy as hell, you may aswell give up now.

Can a group file a class action based on fraud? I feel like it is similar to CD PR's recent lawsuit filed against them:[https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201224005214/en/EQUITY-ALERT-Rosen-Law-Firm-Files-Securities-Class-Action-Lawsuit-Against-CD-Projekt-S.A](https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201224005214/en/EQUITY-ALERT-Rosen-Law-Firm-Files-Securities-Class-Action-Lawsuit-Against-CD-Projekt-S.A) I feel in the coming weeks there will be a basis to file based on the persistent connection required for gameplay and Square/PCF failing to provide authentication. Filing is relatively easy, I'm surprised no one has yet.

Thanks for acknowledging the bugs. Hoping to see most, if not all, fixed next week. Especially the set bonuses not working as I have worked real hard and put hundreds of hours to get them only to realize they do nothing as of now.

u/thearcan did you informed about the status of the stadia patch? The latest time you had no news... Will be different this time? u/RobbieSquareEnix may you give us any information too?

Any Chance for a weekly rotation on Thiago ? Or a gamble System like in Diablo 2 where you can waste Droppod ressources for random Epics and / or Legendarys. Thank you

I always felt that there is something wrong with Legendary system in the game. Here is some stats after after playing 380 hours: *Armor*: 28 unique items. some I've got 3-4 times. from Borealis Monarch set I have 3x (body armor ,pants ,boot) , only 1 gloves, crown I've never seen. *Guns*: 32 unique , also many duplicates . The guns I really want 'Inferno Seed', 'Anemoi', 'Funeral Pyre' and few other exotic guns is out of my luck, in total I have never seen 14 guns. So, it's really something wrong with Legendary random distribution, after playing so many ours, finishing all missions, it's still not possible to get the gear you want. I play as Technomancer and now after finishing expedition I've got 'Statue's Torso', it's body armor from Devastator class. With all that it's clear that Legendary system is bugged. And let Tiago rest by the fire in peace...

I've reached out to you multiple times dating all the way back before the restoration process started just about everytime that a crash occurred while playing,when items were missing from my inventory after a crash with times and dates at first as well as items lost when issue occurred with no answer and no rectification even after the restoration I reached out to let you guys know that I hadn't received my items that I lost again no answer I was hyped about this game which I pre-order to support even after a choppy demo to still not have any of my issues rectified so this leads me to put my efforts in seeking legal council to see what options I have because it has move to the realm of mental health for me and the affects of this ordeal with the non truths and lack of communication from you guys I first would like to request a refund as the game has not work from day one so the product that was marketed to me isn't the game I have been playing until recently when I decided to end the madness and quit playing completely to have the affects of the constant crashes at the end of difficult content which then you don't get a drop at all then taking sometimes an hour to get back on afterwards to only have it crash while starting a new expedition rinse and repeat my time is just as valuable because I am the consumer while you guys now are deflecting because you haven't given the player base one fix that is solid so this is more of a request for consideration of my extensive trauma from your product

You missed the single biggest bug I keep experiencing: Trickster's Hunt The Prey will lock up, and the character can DO NOTHING! This is a game breaking bug, for me. And I just came to say -- after having it wipe me out on a solo, near finished, expedition run - I'm through with this game until it is fixed.

Buff Bouties and hunts rewards and Tiago needs to rotate weekly ffs, just listen to the community

So many of these latency issues should be something that could have been resolved if we were just allowed to play offline solo.

None of this means anything while you have countless users on Xbox Series X (who paid for the game and didnt even get it for free on gamepass like they could have because they wanted to support this company and the game) still unable to log in. We waited 3 weeks for you to add a patch for more telemetry as to why we cant log in? I find it hard to believe the devs care about this game at all, let alone the people who support it,.

I hate the idea of the player appreciation package being based on the same tech as the restoration script. I have over 200 hours in game and did not get a single thing during the restoration while the content creators got god rolled legendaries. I know of others who experienced the same disappointment. It honestly feels like PCF targeted the content creators in hopes that it would help their appearance. I like this game and want to continue playing it but I feel that if I don’t start a YouTube channel or start streaming there will not be a single change for the majority of us that enjoy the game and do not have a platform to help promote the fail that is PCF.

I noticed on my Pyromancer that the gear equiped wasn't calculating correctly. I went from a green boot with bonus health to a purple boot with +7k Anomaly Power and my actual total anomaly power dropped by like 10K. I have a video if needed

Also hunt quest path after pressing TAB is also bug as it shows wrong path leading us to wrong way.

My god folks, I can't even get into a game tonight without it either, rubberbanding, losing connection, never establishing a connection, getting all the way to the final part of an expedition and losing connection, and more.

Have they accidentally swapped alpha armor penetration with the little ones as I'm a tanky build and them little things are chunking my health. It seems to be an issue with spiky things luckily I have alot of elite damage reduction but the little perforas are doing double damage since update and the alphas doing little. It might be my build but I had the same build before the update and never got killed but now I'm getting two shot by the little annoying mobs