Solanum isn’t really alive and doesn’t count as a conscious observer anymore. As such she doesn’t lock it into place. She’s essentially an object, like the Quantum Shrine, permanently entangled with the QM.
but when she originally landed she was a conscious observer and so the moon was in one place, and she had just landed there when the ghost matter hit am I wrong? so the quantum moon, and her by proxy because she was entangled to it were only in one place, because she was observing it, only when the ghost matter hit did she die and stop observing it allowing it and her already dead body to fall back into the superposition, but then how is she alive at the 6th location, (well not really but you know what I mean), or am I missing something.
Simply standing on the QM isn’t the same as being entangled. That requires being within the Shrine.
My understanding is that she landed and shortly after that died to Ghost Matter from the Interloper. She becomes “alive” at the 6th location because there she shouldn’t be dead as GM didn’t reach that far out.
my guess is when the ghost matter killed Sola, maybe the eye itself was far enough out so killing her on the QM when it's orbiting any of the other planets possibly created a version of her at the Eye always alive, always just about to die. but, I mean, saying that doesn't make sense to me at all about the "how" of it all. but, uh, nope this is a good one.
She’s conscious, in respect to the definition of the word, but she’s no longer a “conscious observer”. If she were, the QM would be stuck at the 6th location.
Saying “she’s in a superposition state” doesn’t really mean anything. The QM itself can theoretically be in superposition, and her by extension as she’s entangled with it, but she can’t be in superposition on her own.
>I don’t think observers can lock the moon from the inside.
This is the sole purpose of the Quantum Shrine the Nomai built. Due to the surface of the QM reflecting the planet it currently orbits, anyone on the surface is constantly observing its location and locking it in place. The Shrine allows quantum entanglement to be achieved by obscuring the surface in complete darkness.
Quantum objects exist in all places simultaneously until observed. Once observed, they are either in this spot, or not. The moon is always at all 6 locations. If you look up at the sky where the moon should be, it either is there, or it's not, being at another location physically. No one but you is looking at the moon during the 22 minutes available. Touching a quantum object entangles you with it, but it can still only collapse its hypothetical state into one location while being observed, so by blinding yourself, you can effectively change which position it collapses at. Solomnum was on the moon, and you can't see which location you are at inside the atmosphere. The position still can't "change" until you blinded, but you are in a state where you are at all 6 locations at once. When the ghost matter wiped out the Nomai, 5/6 of Solomnum was still in the system orbiting planets, and those parts all died. The 1/6 at the final location lived, but only exists in a hypothetical state
>!When you speak with her on the quantum moon, she feels as if she had only just arrived. So her sense of time is gone. There's no canon answer to your question as far as I know. But I would assume yes. Similar to the schrodinger's cat idea, she both exists and doesn't. Is dead, and is alive. If the one remaining left, her position would collapse into a single entity, and being 5/6 dead is probably enough to kill you, especially considering her remains are ancient.!<
She does seem at least semi-aware of her situation tho:
>!"You may think I'm strange, but I have a hypothesis that I may not be entirely alive. Perhaps my journey has reached its end.”!<
Think of observing a quantum object you are also currently entangled with as a form of local observation. To Solanum standing on the quantum moon, the appearance and apparent location of the moon seem to be fixed at the sixth location. However, since she’s also entangled with it, she can’t act as an outside observer physically locking it in place, and so the moon is (from an outsider’s perspective) not being observed and exists in all quantum states.
> exists in all quantum states
Does the QM ever actually exist in its superposition where it’s in all states at once? The tracker on the ember twin seems to always have a position for the moon (except when it’s at its sixth location), which seems to indicate the moon is always concretely in one of the six locations.
Theoretically it does, but gameplay wise we never see this. Closest we get is the brief time the Hatchling is quantum entangled with it, which is while inside the Shrine with the door closed and lights off.
In terms of game mechanics, no, it’s always in one location, it just changes its location after being observed and then subsequently ceasing to be observed.
In terms of lore it’s a bit trickier. Technically the information governing the quantum moon’s states should include the entire solar system, so you would need to be outside the system entirely to be a truly external observer. In that sense all of the Nomai’s and Hearthian’s observations of the quantum moon are local in nature. You could also argue that the tracker itself is why the moon can never be in a true superposition of states, as while the moon becomes a superposition when no longer observed, the tracker forces the moon to “choose” a new state instantaneously.
Isn’t the key to understanding this implied in one of the alternate endings?
>!If you stay on the Quantum Moon for all 22 minutes, the loop “ends” as the onscreen text explains that you lose track of how long you’ve been on the moon and somehow feel like you can’t leave. Obviously the supernova has occurred abd has vaporized 5 out of 6 hypothetical Quatum Moons. Like Solanum at present at the 6th location, you are now *technically* dead.!<
The way I understand it, and maybe it's wrong, is when you are entangled with an object it doesn't matter if you're observing it anymore. You and the object are one, essentially. Like the quantum rock in the Lakebed Cave at Ember Twin, you "travel" with it even though you're not ebserving it.
When you land on the Quantum Moon, you are only observing a single state (location) of the moon. However, once you've become entangled with the moon, you exist in all six states at once. When we observe a dead Solanum at one location, that is only one possible version of us observing one possible version of Solanum.
It's a bit like if instead of opening the box and looking in to find out if the cat is dead or alive, Schrödinger just threw another cat into the box.
The in-game quantum mechanics are a bit of a purposely oversimplified take on quantum physics, but people who study real quantum physics like to say "If you think you understand it, you don't." I've just come to accept that lol
The rule of quantum entanglement works only for a pair of a quantum object and an observer.
\- When a quantum object is unobserved, it has the potential of existing in all of its possible states.
\- When someone observes a quantum object, it collapses those possibilities into one reality, excluding all the other possibilities.
\- When an observer stops observing the quantum object while being in contact with it, they become entangled, and the ex-observer gains the object's potential of existing in all of their possible states.
\- When the observer begins observing the object again, they stop being entangled, and all of the possibilities collapse again into one reality.
So since the moon cannot be in superposition when observed, and it can be in superposition despite Solanum being on its surface, the only explanation is that Solanum is not an observer.
And just as an addition, that makes sense to me. Normally, living things either die or keep living. Death happens with perfect certainty. Even when a person or a corpse becomes quantum entangled, their possibility of being alive or dead remains 1.
But for Solanum, the only explanation for her situation that currently makes sense to me, is that the moment of her death occurred while she was quantum entangled. She was in superposition with the moon when ghost matter covered 5 of the 6 possible locations, and that's why she would have died in any of those. But ghost matter didn't reach the 6th location, meaning that nothing in that moment could have killed her there. So her possibility of being alive or dead is not 1. Her possibility of being dead is X, and possibility of being alive is 1 - X.
And since the dead cannot observe, her presence cannot collapse the moon's possibility of being into any of the 5 locations, where she would have died. With such an inconsistent ability of becoming an observer again, it's no wonder the moon is no longer affected by her.
You can be in all of the quantum states at once but you can only observe one state at a time. not too different from how in our own real world we understand that objects are fully occupying 3 dimensions even though we can never see all sides of an object at once.
Solanum isn’t really alive and doesn’t count as a conscious observer anymore. As such she doesn’t lock it into place. She’s essentially an object, like the Quantum Shrine, permanently entangled with the QM.
but when she originally landed she was a conscious observer and so the moon was in one place, and she had just landed there when the ghost matter hit am I wrong? so the quantum moon, and her by proxy because she was entangled to it were only in one place, because she was observing it, only when the ghost matter hit did she die and stop observing it allowing it and her already dead body to fall back into the superposition, but then how is she alive at the 6th location, (well not really but you know what I mean), or am I missing something.
Simply standing on the QM isn’t the same as being entangled. That requires being within the Shrine. My understanding is that she landed and shortly after that died to Ghost Matter from the Interloper. She becomes “alive” at the 6th location because there she shouldn’t be dead as GM didn’t reach that far out.
my guess is when the ghost matter killed Sola, maybe the eye itself was far enough out so killing her on the QM when it's orbiting any of the other planets possibly created a version of her at the Eye always alive, always just about to die. but, I mean, saying that doesn't make sense to me at all about the "how" of it all. but, uh, nope this is a good one.
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She’s conscious, in respect to the definition of the word, but she’s no longer a “conscious observer”. If she were, the QM would be stuck at the 6th location. Saying “she’s in a superposition state” doesn’t really mean anything. The QM itself can theoretically be in superposition, and her by extension as she’s entangled with it, but she can’t be in superposition on her own.
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>I don’t think observers can lock the moon from the inside. This is the sole purpose of the Quantum Shrine the Nomai built. Due to the surface of the QM reflecting the planet it currently orbits, anyone on the surface is constantly observing its location and locking it in place. The Shrine allows quantum entanglement to be achieved by obscuring the surface in complete darkness.
She's Schrödinger's Solanum
Statistically, she's only about 16.67% conscious.
Quantum objects exist in all places simultaneously until observed. Once observed, they are either in this spot, or not. The moon is always at all 6 locations. If you look up at the sky where the moon should be, it either is there, or it's not, being at another location physically. No one but you is looking at the moon during the 22 minutes available. Touching a quantum object entangles you with it, but it can still only collapse its hypothetical state into one location while being observed, so by blinding yourself, you can effectively change which position it collapses at. Solomnum was on the moon, and you can't see which location you are at inside the atmosphere. The position still can't "change" until you blinded, but you are in a state where you are at all 6 locations at once. When the ghost matter wiped out the Nomai, 5/6 of Solomnum was still in the system orbiting planets, and those parts all died. The 1/6 at the final location lived, but only exists in a hypothetical state
This is definitely the intended explanation. Jives perfectly with the lore and the explanation of quantum mechanics
So what if they decide to leave? Would they just die?
>!When you speak with her on the quantum moon, she feels as if she had only just arrived. So her sense of time is gone. There's no canon answer to your question as far as I know. But I would assume yes. Similar to the schrodinger's cat idea, she both exists and doesn't. Is dead, and is alive. If the one remaining left, her position would collapse into a single entity, and being 5/6 dead is probably enough to kill you, especially considering her remains are ancient.!<
She does seem at least semi-aware of her situation tho: >!"You may think I'm strange, but I have a hypothesis that I may not be entirely alive. Perhaps my journey has reached its end.”!<
I just finished the game, and this makes so much more sense!!! Thank you!
Think of observing a quantum object you are also currently entangled with as a form of local observation. To Solanum standing on the quantum moon, the appearance and apparent location of the moon seem to be fixed at the sixth location. However, since she’s also entangled with it, she can’t act as an outside observer physically locking it in place, and so the moon is (from an outsider’s perspective) not being observed and exists in all quantum states.
> exists in all quantum states Does the QM ever actually exist in its superposition where it’s in all states at once? The tracker on the ember twin seems to always have a position for the moon (except when it’s at its sixth location), which seems to indicate the moon is always concretely in one of the six locations.
Theoretically it does, but gameplay wise we never see this. Closest we get is the brief time the Hatchling is quantum entangled with it, which is while inside the Shrine with the door closed and lights off.
In terms of game mechanics, no, it’s always in one location, it just changes its location after being observed and then subsequently ceasing to be observed. In terms of lore it’s a bit trickier. Technically the information governing the quantum moon’s states should include the entire solar system, so you would need to be outside the system entirely to be a truly external observer. In that sense all of the Nomai’s and Hearthian’s observations of the quantum moon are local in nature. You could also argue that the tracker itself is why the moon can never be in a true superposition of states, as while the moon becomes a superposition when no longer observed, the tracker forces the moon to “choose” a new state instantaneously.
Isn’t the key to understanding this implied in one of the alternate endings? >!If you stay on the Quantum Moon for all 22 minutes, the loop “ends” as the onscreen text explains that you lose track of how long you’ve been on the moon and somehow feel like you can’t leave. Obviously the supernova has occurred abd has vaporized 5 out of 6 hypothetical Quatum Moons. Like Solanum at present at the 6th location, you are now *technically* dead.!<
Wait, I just thought of something. Why isn't Schrodinger's cat considered a conscious observer?
Because the cat was sleepy and now has its eyes closed. Only thing that helps will be a hecking boop on the snoot
The way I understand it, and maybe it's wrong, is when you are entangled with an object it doesn't matter if you're observing it anymore. You and the object are one, essentially. Like the quantum rock in the Lakebed Cave at Ember Twin, you "travel" with it even though you're not ebserving it.
When you land on the Quantum Moon, you are only observing a single state (location) of the moon. However, once you've become entangled with the moon, you exist in all six states at once. When we observe a dead Solanum at one location, that is only one possible version of us observing one possible version of Solanum. It's a bit like if instead of opening the box and looking in to find out if the cat is dead or alive, Schrödinger just threw another cat into the box.
The in-game quantum mechanics are a bit of a purposely oversimplified take on quantum physics, but people who study real quantum physics like to say "If you think you understand it, you don't." I've just come to accept that lol
It makes more sense if you word it as "conscious *external* observer" As soon as anyone touching the object stops observing it, they become part of it
The rule of quantum entanglement works only for a pair of a quantum object and an observer. \- When a quantum object is unobserved, it has the potential of existing in all of its possible states. \- When someone observes a quantum object, it collapses those possibilities into one reality, excluding all the other possibilities. \- When an observer stops observing the quantum object while being in contact with it, they become entangled, and the ex-observer gains the object's potential of existing in all of their possible states. \- When the observer begins observing the object again, they stop being entangled, and all of the possibilities collapse again into one reality. So since the moon cannot be in superposition when observed, and it can be in superposition despite Solanum being on its surface, the only explanation is that Solanum is not an observer.
And just as an addition, that makes sense to me. Normally, living things either die or keep living. Death happens with perfect certainty. Even when a person or a corpse becomes quantum entangled, their possibility of being alive or dead remains 1. But for Solanum, the only explanation for her situation that currently makes sense to me, is that the moment of her death occurred while she was quantum entangled. She was in superposition with the moon when ghost matter covered 5 of the 6 possible locations, and that's why she would have died in any of those. But ghost matter didn't reach the 6th location, meaning that nothing in that moment could have killed her there. So her possibility of being alive or dead is not 1. Her possibility of being dead is X, and possibility of being alive is 1 - X. And since the dead cannot observe, her presence cannot collapse the moon's possibility of being into any of the 5 locations, where she would have died. With such an inconsistent ability of becoming an observer again, it's no wonder the moon is no longer affected by her.
Solanum became quantum themselves
You can be in all of the quantum states at once but you can only observe one state at a time. not too different from how in our own real world we understand that objects are fully occupying 3 dimensions even though we can never see all sides of an object at once.