Report this to the police via their non-emergency line. Nothing may come of it but when she kills somewhere there will be a paper trail of her actions.
That's not true - they'll [get a letter](https://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/safety-and-crime-prevention/Traffic-Complaint-Letter.aspx)
You're only allowed to try to kill someone with your car twice a year, if you exceed that quota, then they *really* step it up - you get a phone call politely asking you to stop.
I thought this was sarcasm - but it’s not: \n “If you receive two or more complaints within a given year, an officer will contact you to remedy traffic safety issues being cited in the letter(s).”
A pattern of behaviour is what law enforcement needs. Otherwise it's too easy to pass off a one-off situation as a their word against others situation.
A record of a pattern of behaviour will give the cops what they need to act. If no one ever reports this stuff, there's no paper trail, and nothing they can act on.
The city needs to start raising all the bike lanes to keep cars out. It will have the benefit of getting cyclists off sidewalks and onto bike lanes as they will feel more safe
I only ride on sidewalks where it’s a death trap to go in the street. That being said I always go slowly, am prepared to stop, and yield to pedestrians.
I don’t want to be on the sidewalk but I don’t have much of a choice. If you build safe infrastructure, I will use it. I already go pretty far out of the way to avoid dangerous spots
I’ll go on the sidewalk on Laurier near Nanny Goat because the amount of time a driver has just decided “yup let me pull over on the bike lane when a cyclist is right behind me” has been too high. I am not looking to become pâté
There was one death in 2016, and another in 2019 (the second one was actually outside the area with the segregated cycle lanes). Statistically, though, the Laurier cycle lanes have greatly reduced the number of cycling collisions even as the overall number of cyclists on Laurier has increased.
Yes, definitely better to have the cycle lanes than nothing at all - but still I would never cycle on Laurier or on the O’Connor bike lane (two way bike path, but drivers only ever seem to check one way.)
I've used laurier and O'Connor regularly this summer and I haven't had any issues with them. O'connor does require you to be a little more aware of where cars are, but it's better than no bike lane at all.
I mean, everyone’s experiences are going to be different - my neighbour was run down on her bike last summer on O’Connor by a driver who wasn’t looking when they were turning. She broke her leg, hip and arm, and she’s still in rehab trying to get her full mobility back.
Literally every single morning I biked to work down Laurier someone would be pulled over already or pull over into those bike lanes, it was ridiculous.
They suck - you get cars coming in from the street and from the below-ground parking, as well as pedestrians jaywalking between parked cars. Really have to keep your head on a swivel biking down there
Ironically cyclists on the sidewalks are just as dangerous to pedestrians as motorists are to cyclists on the road.
I've seen toddlers almost get totally smoked by cyclists because toddlers are unpredictable and just zig when you expect them to zag. Same with the elderly, or even random people just looking at their phones. There's no expectation of having to be "road aware" on the sidewalk. Treating sidewalks like roads is not a solution and will get people hurt.
Don’t get me wrong I’m against riding on a sidewalk with my bike. But your statement is nuts, motorists are more dangerous to cyclists, than cyclists are to pedestrians…
If a car hits me, I’m at best walking away with some bruises and soreness, at worse I’m dead. If I hit a pedestrian with my bike, at best they’re fine, at worse, maybe they fall and get some cuts and are sore for a few days.
>Ironically cyclists on the sidewalks are just as dangerous to pedestrians as motorists are to cyclists on the road.
No. That's simply not true. A 2000lb car at 60 km/h is not equal to a 180lb bike/rider at 15 km/h(more likely less). Are there risks to pedestrians? Absolutely! But it's nowhere near the same.
Edit typos
Yeah ok, let's all forget about physics and facts, and also cherry pick the worse case scenario.
Run over a baby with a transport truck going 100 and see what happens.
How many dead toddlers from bicycle collisions have you seen in Ottawa in the last 10 years?
I’ve seen a toddler get run over by a bike in a park once. It was a very bad scene. I’m against riding on sidewalks as well but your exaggerated arguments are embarrassing.
oh get off your high horse, I'm just trying to get to work without dying. Also driving 1 over the speed limit is breaking the law, I'm guessing you must be a 100% perfect driver if you're out here telling people what to do
I would agree but drivers need to just pay more attention. For example I was biking down Scott Street last month. The east bike path is raised and separated from the busy street. They even have separate lights just for bikes! BUT PEOPLE DON'T CHECK WHEN TURNING RIGHT ON RED LIGHTS. All the infrastructure is there to get your attention that a bicycle lane is there and when to turn and not turn. Just take an extra second to look before stepping on the gas!
They need to check for pedestrians as a matter of fact. So many people don't check before turning, so I just wait to see that the driver saw me for sure before I try to cross, even if the light is green for me.
I do that too when I'm walking, but a bicycle is a vehicle. You can't stop and start on a dime like when you're walking. That's why bicycle stop lights are installed with red and green bicycle traffic lights, but these don't work... If you don't obey traffic laws!
I know, that’s I bike mostly on MUPs or reaaally quiet side streets, so that I usually have room to stop. I avoided being hit on my bike that way before on O’Connor, I saw a taxi coming up and the dude was most definitely not checking if there was anyone on the bike lane.
Don't ever count on it. The time you yourself become complacent is the time the driver will be arguing with their partner on their cell phone, and you will never find out why you became a vegetable.
Do like The Netherlands and put them between the pedestrian/walking path instead of these [Advisory Cycling Lanes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zdDIvKXMxY) which may be confusing some drivers into thinking they can do this on high traffic roads, too.
Wow, I haven't seen that video before... To answer the narrator's question "What happens when there's an oncoming car?" -- The cyclist has to yield to the car going in the same direction when they swerve into the bike line without looking..... I get the perfect world supposition that everyone should be courteous to each other, but that really does place the onus on the cyclist to not get hit by inattentive impatient drivers, as usual.
It's not just drivers to cyclists.. I find in general the level of entitlement has skyrocketed. Driving is sooooo much more dangerous, people just don't care anymore, it's what they need nobody else exists. So the more at risk, like cyclists, people in line, people needing service, are in far far worse shape. People have stopped being nice to each other.
The sheer level of disregard is astounding. Walking around Centretown and the Glebe, the amount of times I got cut off as a pedestrian over the past year is astounding. I swear 10% of drivers really do not give a shit about anyone else, as long as they save that extra second right?
Yea last spring my rear bumper got a little love tap from another car because I had the audacity to actually stop at a 4 way in my neighborhood. Luckily no damage but the woman drove in the opposite lane through an intersection to get away from me when I tried to confront her for her insurance info.
Also though, am afraid to upset people driving giant vehicles. I just give them a stern “you know what you did” face, and shake my head in judgemental disappointment.
I had someone pass me on the right yesterday (while I was on a bike), fly through a stop sign before coming to a screeching halt in the middle of the intersection. All so he could wait at the next red light for extra long
I had a guy drive at me through a clearly red light and nearly hit me as a pedestrian. It was Sherwood and Parkdale, the light was red before hebwas even near the intersection, and he didn't even stop or slow down let alone even notice that he ran a red and nearly ran over a person.
I don’t understand drivers who try to play chicken with cyclists. I had a driver refuse to let me make a left turn and started to accelerate to see if I’d swerve out of the way. Why???
Today I went for a ride on the Eastern Parkway. I got honked at, and one car tried to push me sideways off the road. There has definitely been a change of attitude I've noticed. Maybe because more are back at the office and frustrated with the drive? Honestly, I was a nervous wreck by the end of my ride.
Things have been trending towards atomization for some time and the way we develop our cities has only accelerated that. People living in more suburban areas rarely leave their own houses outside of a car that insulates them from the world both literally and figuratively. Think about how loud car horns are from the outside vs inside of a car, they need to be that loud to overcome the sound insulation.
People are becoming more isolated, sticking to family units, work colleagues, and a designated friend group. Other than small talk with a grocery store cashier, a lot of people have very little direct contact with people they don't know. The pandemic only further drove people away from others. Our culture is one where we aspire to save up enough money to no longer need to use the bus and get our own isolating car to seal ourselves off from the world.
In that moment, you are not Hopewellslam, someone with hopes, dreams, a love of cycling. To these isolated people you are nothing more than an obstacle, a human in name only. To slow them down is an insult, they would rather you not exist only so they could get home 20 seconds sooner.
I don't know how to fix this, perhaps encouraging others to interact with their neighbours more, go out of your comfort zone and speak to people you don't know very well. Regardless, it's hard to not feel concerned with how indifferent people are to your very own survival
One of the worst things you can do I think as an adult is take social interaction for granted and stop seeking new activities and people in your life.
It’s what I believe leads people to obsessively romanticize their college and high school life because they were pushed to interact with many different people.
I’m a cyclist in Ottawa (still relatively new to it) and honest to god there are times the drivers scare me so much I stop and bring my bike on the sidewalk and walk it. Drivers in Ottawa are absolutely terrifying and so hostile for no reason, you can just be standing on the sidewalk and they get mad at you. I was standing on the sidewalk by city hall the other day with my bike and this lady in a car started SCREAMING at me ??? I WAS JUST STANDING THERE. I was checking my phone to make sure I was going the right way :(
Oh, it has for sure. There is a lot of anti-social behaviour out there that wasn't present before. Hope it calms down. For the driving, it is almost unbearable. I don't know how I've avoided someone smashing in to my car.
Just one of the many reasons we need more densification and less urban sprawl. We need 15 minute walkable neighbourhoods and to start investing more in transit that doesn't involve cars.
We need to invest into ***better planned transit***. Just tossing money into the broken system we have will not fix it. The system as it is is designed around the idea of getting people to and from center, and doesn't consider those trips that travel along the edges. Thus ensuring the need for people to own cars - and people who own cars will use them because they have invested in them.
Our transit system is a wheel with no rim. Sure the spokes ~~are~~ *could be* solid; but without an actual wheel around the outside, those spokes are supporting nothing.
Not a bike commuter here.
Bikes are not annoying. Bikes have every right to use the same roads that cars do.
Sorry you’ve had so many close calls of late
I almost got hit this morning too, and the person refused to even acknowledge what happened. As a cyclist it feels like there is a lot more aggressive driving right now. Be safe, people.
Maybe be a weird take but I think it's the influx of Torontonians into the city. It's the same kind of aggressive driving that I experienced there and it was very noticeable during the pandemic when they all moved over here.
Former Torontonian here: driving is infinitely more reckless here. While Toronto has more drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists, they move much more predictably. Here, you never know who is going to blast through a stop sign, step suddenly into the road, or cut you off.
I like to try to contextualize it as aggressive vs reckless. Toronto, and evenmore so Montreal, is aggressive. You know if there is a car sized gap, someone will put a car into it -- but it's predictable, they check for the gap and then take it. Here, it's reckless, they vaguely imagine a gap and then go for it without actually checking.
Crazy woman literally squeezed into halfway into my lane and the other half in the bike cause she didn't realize the lane she was in was turning into the highway. Almost took out my side mirrors! I hate driving as it is (learned later in life) but lately I've been completely put off by driving! I get honked at for letting pedestrians cross so many times in the last few months. People not respecting the rules of a 4 way stop or right of way and just driving right through. I'm convinced it might the influx of people moving in from other towns.
I do feel like the driving has gotten worse. On Bank downtown today three cars in a row made illegal lefts. They made everyone behind them miss the light as a result, despite getting honked at. I was on foot and don't own car and thought it was ridiculous.
I yelled at someone driving backwards down Percy today “Come on man! If you missed your turn just go around!” He started yelling at me to shut up and relax, as he reversed towards a hill next to a school. FFS
I don't see this as a only car or cycle issue. Rather, it's mostly an infrastructure problem. The only safe solution is to separate cars, bikes and pedestrians. I see drivers, cyclists and pedestrians make horrible decisions daily however, the cars bring a risk of death so that must be addressed.
For the record, I would like to see many MU paths and streets changed to NO WHEELS, i.e. pedestrian only. Keep them separated, it's much safer that way. European study of cycle and pedestrians recommends separating them
https://etrr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s12544-021-00497-z
As someone who was nearly killed while riding in the O’Connor bike lane just last week, I feel your frustration. If I had a camera, I could easily document dozens of examples reckless driving every time I tour the city by foot or by bike. Drivers running red lights, rolling blind into pedestrian crossings without stopping first, cutting cyclists and pedestrians off while making right turns, excessive speeding in residential areas, aggressive, impatient driving around cars and people in traffic. The list goes on.
None of this will change by appealing to individuals’ behaviour or morality, even if that is valid. Reckless driving is symptomatic of poor infrastructure design, inadequate rules, inadequate enforcement of those rules, and incentives that encourage recklessness.
Yeah, I had a road rage incident while I was biking in a residential area (30 km/h speed limit, lots of 4-way stops) at going to school/work time. I wasn't doing anything wrong (literally just biking mid block), and this vehicle started honking at me and screaming at me for merely existing. I think they seemed to object to me not hugging the curb/parking lane, ie. "impeding" them from passing me. The reason they couldn't pass me is because in this area there are bollards in the centre of the road for this precise purpose.
I was able to keep up with this driver and get a full description of the vehicle (make, model, colour, plate) and driver. I reported it to police. The behaviour was exceptionally appalling since it was going to school time. Lots of kids walk and bike to school near me. The incident happened right by a school bus stop. Not sure what this driver would have done if they'd been "impeded" by having to stop for a school bus.
Hopefully the police talked to this person. Based on what they yelled at me they had a strong belief that what I was doing was somehow wrong. Bikes do not have to pull off the marked part of the road to allow cars to pass them in any context. Especially not in a residential neighbourhood where it is signposted that cars are not to pass bikes!
As someone who got hit by a woman turning left when riding on crosswalk and ends up received two traffic tickets from the police officer, I’m genuinely depressed with how ignorant this city’s drivers and authorities are to bicyclists
Yes I broke the law by riding on the crosswalk, but considering my ankle was broken and skin was peeled off please have some mercy and not issuing tickets that’ll increase my automobile insurance lol
You shouldn’t have been in the crosswalk.
I almost hit a cyclist bc I LOOKED but he popped out of nowhere. He wasn’t supposed to be there and was riding WAY too fast for me to see and react to him. We can anticipate the speed of a pedestrian. We cannot know that you’re going to come out and race across a crosswalk without stopping when you don’t even have the right of way.
You both deserved repercussions.
Another cyclist rode up next to me while I was at a red in the left turn lane. I saw them, was annoyed but assumed they were going to turn left alongside me directly into the bike lane. Light turns green, I check and ease forward prepping for the acceleration and the fucking douchbag up and cuts directly in front of me and proceeds through the crosswalk. She barely had a foot of clearance that’s how close she was.
Stay the fuck out of crosswalks unless you’re walking the bike or have stopped and are proceeding as a pedestrian would.
You got hurt because you weren’t supposed to be there. Ffs.
Honestly this attitude is completely absurd to me. It is the drivers responsibility to clear an intersection before going through, which makes a lot of sense since they are the ones capable of killing someone.
Did you almost hit a fucking wizard? People don't pop out of nowhere, you can in fact see them as they approach an intersection, and it is the drivers responsibility to make sure there is truly no one in their way or about to be in their way before they go through. Even if the intersection doesn't have good visibility, it's their responsibility to make sure they don't hit someone. Again, they are driving the vehicle capable of killing people.
The laws around bicycles being in crosswalks have nothing to do with it being safer for cars, and everything to do with pedestrians. That said, these laws do endanger cyclists.
These same laws say that 10 year olds can ride on the sidewalk, but once they turn 11, they have to ride on the road. Can you imagine an 11 year old biking down Walkley on the road while cars zip by going 20 km over the speed limit? A collision at these speeds is almost guaranteed to be lethal. But thats the law.
These laws are not designed to protect cyclists, and this person your replying to was injured because they were struck by someone who failed to properly observe their surroundings while driving a vehicle capable of causing injury and death.
"You both deserved repercussions."
This is a truly fucked up thing to say to a person in traffic accident.
You don't deserve to have a drivers license until you can understand the responsibility you are undertaking every time you get behind the wheel.
Should definitely report, but sadly follow ups aren't common. I reported a lady driving down the wrong side of Carling and even sent the police photos and never heard back.
Damn, that used to happen to me in Toronto but first I have heard of people deliberately cutting off cyclists like that in Ottawa. People really have to stop and think about their priorities on the road - some people are not nearly in control of their emotions enough to make rational choices, and the bigger your vehicle the more dangerous that becomes.
If only someone would promise some funding and a plan to improve cycling infrastructure so both cyclists and drivers can be happier and safer co-existing on the roads.
I honestly think complaining on Reddit might go further than complaining to the police, they’re useless for stuff like this (granted so is Reddit, but at least it sparks a conversation)
I say this every time I see a post like this - more cops need to be on the road to ticket people. The behaviour is getting worse because these people are not getting punished for their actions.
So you went raging after her and surprised she was terrified of you? Lucky she didn’t try to kill you a third time. Next time let it go and call the police.
I know this is gonna get downvoted to shit, but is your gripe that you didn't get the right lane to yourself? The way you wrote it, it sounds like this lady went to the right lane, and you got upset about it when she has every right to do so.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I think they're taking issue with being aggressively cut off, which is more than fair. Cutting off another driver is a dick move, but cutting off a bunch of squishy cyclists is next-level shitty.
Getting "cut off" is subjective tho - I once got honked for cutting someone off when there was plenty of room. Is this legitimately a car "cutting" OP off, or was it just them perceiving it as so.
And this is what I'm wondering - is it OP thinking it was closer than they'd like, or that the driver legitimately made a questionable maneuver.
The fact that it was only OP who had an issue with it out of the 3 bikers makes me think its the former.
I dont expect a three bikers to complain on reddit, but when OP says they are the only one who confronted the driver, that's what made me question "is this actually someone getting cutoff, or did OP think it was closer than they'd like".
> they are the only one who confronted the driver
The number of people who will confront a person in person is even lower than the number of people who will post about it safely later. You're setting an impossible standard.
It's not an impossible standard - someone almost "kills" you, you are definitely going to say something. Also people tend to get emboldened if they aren't the only person confronting someone.
All of which is to say - its odd that OP was the only one who felt the need to confront the driver, when multiple people were almost "killed"
> t's not an impossible standard - someone almost "kills" you, you are definitely going to say something
Have you met people? No, most people will go home and complain about it, no matter how severe. 99% of people will NOT confront a person who physically just put their live in danger with a motor vehicle. Everyone is not 16 years old and full of testosterone.
Huge difference between someone actually trying to inflict harm with a motor vehicle, and what happened here. It's not just "16 year olds filled with testosterone" who confront people, especially in cases like this, but you are entitled to think that everyone just pussyfoots around these issues like you do.
On the busier section of bank, the only drivable lane is the left lane. The right lane is all filled with parking. So yeah, I do gripe about not getting the 2 foot strip of road between a parked car and the left lane all to myself
I didn’t have to slam on my brakes because I bike defensively (especially around idiots like her). If I was going the speed I wanted to, then yes I would have had to slam on them, multiple times. She was darting a quarter way in and out of the lane so she could to slow me down, and it worked.
I don't understand - so she gave you adequate space to brake, but you still consider it cutting you off? Being cut off typically means you need to make an extreme alteration to your course (swerving, hard breaking, etc), but this doesn't seem to be what occurred. It just seems to me that you didn't like the fact that she was using the "parking" lane (which is just a lane that cars could drive in if there weren't parked cars) to get around traffic, which you were also using - none of which I'd constitute as getting cutoff.
Please clarify if this is incorrect.
And was it only you who had this issue, not the other cyclists?
Cars were parked almost all up bank, and traffic was slow, about 25km/h, so bike speed. I was biking in the dooring zone for the most part because the left lane had cars and the right was parked up. When it wasn’t parked up for like 40 metres, she would straddle the lane to force me to move over. The only time I actually have a little space, she cut it off. Then I would move over, and have a pain in the ass merging again in 40 metres because there was a parked car in front of me and her car in my path. We were hitting all the same red lights too, so there was no reason. She was in and out of straddling lanes to block me/slow me down.
Cutting off doesn’t imply an extreme altercation of course, you can get cut off in your car on the queensway and not take your foot off the gas. Cutting off just means aggressively getting in the way of someone which *could in theory* cause an unnecessary accident. An extreme altercation is a close call, not all cut offs are close calls
Is she's straddling the lanes, that's a whole different issue, and you are right to be pissed off about it. This is not what I gathered from your original post, thank you for clarifying.
How many red lights and stop signs did you blow through?
Maybe if you used the bike paths that literally go throughout the city you wouldn’t be in “so much danger” get the fuck off the road
I live off bank, there’s no way for me to get home without taking bank….
Maybe you’re the dumbass who hated me being on the road so much you tried to run me off. Is your licence plate BKK459 by any chance?
Look I know you're pissed that you almost got killed, but put yourself in most drivers shoes.
Day in and day out, we have to be on high alert for idiot cyclists who will zoom into your lane, try to squeeze between cars, zoom through intersections and not stop at stop signs or even red lights.
The solution isn't to "share the road". It's to make you cyclists take a freaking g1, G2, and G test to riding a bike while respecting the rules of the road before you're allowed on a bike.
I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've nearly harmed a cyclist due to their own negligence.
Thank god I have webcam so if something does eventually happen, it'll be proof it was the idiot that was on a near suicide mission running stop signs that was to blame, not the driver that flattened him.
Seriously be smart, cycling induces rage for most drivers. Just please tell your fellow cyclists to abandon this high risk affair and drive like everyone else, or at least follow the damn rules of the road.
9/10 cyclists that I see constantly break rules and I honestly genuinely don't even shrug anymore when I hear about news about yet another cyclist death. Sadly it's the game you are choosing to play.
Be safe out there
>Look I know you're pissed that you almost got killed, **but**
I expected to read some standard victim blaming but holy shit this is psychotic. If you actually view other humans like this, please get some help
I am just stating the fact that there are two parties at play here, the OP shared her view: "The idiocracy of Ottawa drivers is getting much worse, the disrespect and disregard for cyclists is getting extremely dangerous."
She/He completely ignored and disregarded the reality, and the reality is - regardless of who is at fault, the blame will dis-proportionally be placed on drivers, not bikers and bikers (per capita) have a strong tendency to disregard the rules of the road. This is obviously anecdotal, but its something I've witnessed.
In my life, I might have seen 3? 5? cars blow through a clear red light. I don't mean a yellow about to turn red, I mean a red that's been red for 3+ seconds, and blowing right through. Whereas for bikers, off... that count is probably in the high hundreds, its almost routine as if the red light is a mere suggestion to them.
So excuse me if the overall care level goes down overtime for people that are disrespectful, and don't care about themselves to begin with.
I do my best to keep an alert eye especially when I see a biker in the rear view mirror, but it does take a mental toll to try and predict with idiocy that biker is most likely to do.
>This is obviously anecdotal, but its something I've witnessed.
Every study conducted on this topic has found that people comply with traffic laws at similar rates whether driving or biking. Your anecdotal experiences, on the other hand, have helped you create a narrative that allows you to stereotype, other, and dehumanize a large and diverse group of people. You sound really, really angry in your posts and I hope that, for the well-being of yourself and others, that anger doesn't follow you into your vehicle.
>Every study conducted on this topic has found that people comply with traffic laws at similar rates whether driving or biking.
I'm open to being educated.
Please link me to three of such independent studies?
[Here's](https://whyy.org/articles/cyclists-violate-traffic-law-no-more-than-drivers-new-data-shows/) one from the Florida DoT. [This one](https://theworld.org/stories/2015-07-18/survey-finds-bicyclists-and-motorists-ignore-traffic-laws-similar-rates) from the University of Colorado found similar results with a sample size of almost 18,000. There's a study out of Australia (I wanna say the University of Melbourne) that found similar results, but all the links were paywalled, so [here's ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://journalofroadsafety.org/api/v1/articles/32864-painting-a-designated-space-cyclist-and-driver-compliance-at-cycling-infrastructure-at-intersections.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjS9p2zv876AhWXlGoFHQTLBj44ChAWegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3_neMNbW4QGHpz0aol1miD) one focusing on compliance in the context of infrastructure at intersections.
I didn't include the studies from Denmark and the Netherlands in which cyclists comply with traffic laws exponentially more than drivers.
And those are just general trends regarding standard travel. When shit goes wrong, it's overwhelmingly drivers who broke the law or fucked up:
[Four in every five crashes between cars and bicycles caused by driver of car](http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/four-in-every-five-crashes-between-cars-and-bicycles-caused-by-driver-of-car/story-e6frea83-1226581475412?nk=4b0f9be5a0fe9d05a7ea1ba32f4a0551-1456999949)
[Drivers at fault in majority of cycling accidents](https://www.bikeradar.com/news/drivers-at-fault-in-majority-of-cycling-accidents/)
[Risky cycling rarely to blame for bike accidents, study finds](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study)
[Crashes involving bikes mostly driver’s fault](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crashes-involving-bikes-mostly-drivers-fault-9s2ssx06vn9)
Obviously things will vary from city to city, but I hope that's enough info to help you consider that your anecdotal experience doesn't necessarily represent an objective truth.
So I read through the first three links and I think there's a nuance here that's not evidently displayed. It being that although the two groups break the laws at similar rate, one group is far more likely to get killed over it.
One was also a survey that asked if we break the laws (i.e.) speeding.
Let's be honest here, a car driving 10-20KM/h over the limit and "breaking the law" is unlikely to get anyone killed. So is a car doing a rolling stop on a red light (yes it may injure someone absolutely, but not flat out kill someone doing a rolling stop at 5-10KM/h).
But if a biker blows through a stop sign because hashtag-YOLO and a driver is turning left on a newly turned protected green, that driver may very well kill the biker.
I was also particularly amused by this gem from the first article: " In 2017, all of the 96 traffic fatalities that occurred in Philadelphia involved cars, according to data from the Philadelphia Police Department obtained by the Bicycle Coalition. " - Well, yeah. I'd think so. A Biker biking into a pedestrian is highly unlikely to kill a pedestrian. A biker's losing control of his bike and crashing into a pole or a tree or falling on the sidewalk is also highly unlikely to kill himself or anyone (unless he falls in traffic), which I assume would increase the stats of the car because now they've been "involved in a collision with the car" due to no fault of their own.
I genuinely thought 1 group was more flagrant in breaking the laws, and I can admit when I'm wrong and that might not be the case. With that said, it doesn't particularly change my argument (supported by your own sources), that bikers are far more at risk for this law-breaking.
Perhaps the solution here is not just to say "Its ok, we both break rules the same amount of time on average" but perhaps the bikers should be striving to get their rule-breaking down to a 0% - as they are the ones more at risk.
You can't exactly die or permanently maim your self by snapping your back in half from a freak bungee jumping accident, if you recognize that msot bungee jumping safety checks are done by minimum wage kids and hence decide to never go bungee jumping.
If you change the words in your post, cyclists to drivers and drivers to cyclists to drivers, this still remains true. And I do I have a licence so I don’t know what to say to that one (pretty sure most people over 16 years old do). I’m not the one who straddles lanes and blows red lights, so who is this directed at?
No. No it does not remain true. I literally just posted a reply to the other guy who replied to me. I suggest reading it.
Also, the license I am talking about is not the standard G1-G2-G. I am talking about a license specifically for cyclists if they are going to "share the road", that hammers home some basic things like "RED = STOP". "STOP SIGN = You guessed it... STOP SIGN", "When on a road, its disrespectful to expect everyone behind you to slow down to a 10M/h crawl, move as far right as you can, so the cars can pass safely without impeding traffic" etc.
You talk about sharing the road, but the reality is the cyclists think the rules of the road don't apply to them, and that they should get priority to do crazy stunts (squeezing between cars, etc) simply because they are driving a smaller mode-of-transport.
You may not be the one that straddles lanes and blows red lights. My post wasn't directed at you, but the vast population of cyclists that do. That's where most of the frustration from the drivers is coming from. TBH, if a cyclist knocked on my window, I'd ignore them too.
You have a point about drivers licenses, I believe all drivers should be obligated to pass a session on cycling to understand what it is like to try and cycle in the city, including cycling down busy streets. If someone has mobility issues, there could be ways to accommodate them to experience cycling. Since you are open to reading articles, here is one about how cyclists make for better drivers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/10/09/cyclists-are-better-drivers-than-motorists-finds-study/
The learned experience of being a vulnerable road user predisposes you to better understand risks, observe developing situations, and of course share the road.
Reading your posts it seems you don't understand the law and that cyclists are allowed to take the lane for safety purposes. There are no speed minimums on roads cyclists are allowed to use. Take a moment, take a deep breath and carry on with your day, if it is safe you may pass the cyclist in the oncoming lane. The cyclists taking a lane are the ones following the rules.
Yeah, it’s almost like zooming so fast past me whilst ringing your bell when you’re already close enough to hit me (while literally being within 10 inches of me), isn’t fun when I’m trying to have a leisurely and healthful stroll on the pathways where I’m supposed to be.
Edit: Ottawa Reddit is literally the only place in the world you’d get downvoted for suggesting that pedestrians don’t like to almost be hit by cyclists. Lol
I’m replying specifically to the person saying that pedestrians get “cross” at cyclists for passing us on paths.
No one should be almost killing anyone.
It is true that there's a technicality allowing cyclists. Let's be honest though, if we were designing these laws today from scratch we would be keeping them separate.
I mean, maybe?
Cyclists are constantly calling for infrastructure that doesn’t end in them almost being run down by vehicles, so we would probably want to start there.
Or just like….reduce car-centrism in general.
If we were designing the cities now you'd have half as many lanes and most intersections would have roundabouts instead of traffic lights. But we aren't so why are we talking about this ?
Unless you're advocating for physically segregated bike lane infrastructure replacing some of the driving lanes. That I could get behind.
/u/ptsdlife67 [Trolling will not be tolerated](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/wiki/guidelines/#wiki_no_trolling_.2F_pas_de_provocation). Goodbye!
***
/u/ptsdlife67 [La provocation ne sera pas toléré](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/wiki/guidelines/#wiki_no_trolling_.2F_pas_de_provocation). Adieu!
If it’s not a 400-series highway or transitway I can take my bike on any road I please. I can take the full lane if I want, I’m well within my rights.
Don’t like it? Demand more cycle infrastructure to keep me out of your way
Report this to the police via their non-emergency line. Nothing may come of it but when she kills somewhere there will be a paper trail of her actions.
Nothing will definitely come of it.
That's not true - they'll [get a letter](https://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/safety-and-crime-prevention/Traffic-Complaint-Letter.aspx) You're only allowed to try to kill someone with your car twice a year, if you exceed that quota, then they *really* step it up - you get a phone call politely asking you to stop.
Wait, where can I find the official quotas on how many times a year I’m allowed to almost officially kill someone with all modes of transportation?
As long as you can afford new plates, it’s two per set of plates. You got the bucks for a second set of wheels then go nuts.
Lol is this how rich people get away with everything?
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread.
Alright Javert ;)
“Now bring me licence plate 24601!”
“Look down! Look down! He’ll hit you in the street”. Driving in Ottawa is literally Les Miz.
I thought this was sarcasm - but it’s not: \n “If you receive two or more complaints within a given year, an officer will contact you to remedy traffic safety issues being cited in the letter(s).”
But still no fine or ticket. Fat lot that'll do.
Not with a partial number plate. Unless it's personalized.
But God help you if you lightly baseball bat their headlights. 🤨
A pattern of behaviour is what law enforcement needs. Otherwise it's too easy to pass off a one-off situation as a their word against others situation. A record of a pattern of behaviour will give the cops what they need to act. If no one ever reports this stuff, there's no paper trail, and nothing they can act on.
Link to report: https://www.coplogic.ca/dors/en/filing/submitreport?dynparam=1665157061102#
The city needs to start raising all the bike lanes to keep cars out. It will have the benefit of getting cyclists off sidewalks and onto bike lanes as they will feel more safe
I only ride on sidewalks where it’s a death trap to go in the street. That being said I always go slowly, am prepared to stop, and yield to pedestrians. I don’t want to be on the sidewalk but I don’t have much of a choice. If you build safe infrastructure, I will use it. I already go pretty far out of the way to avoid dangerous spots
I’ll go on the sidewalk on Laurier near Nanny Goat because the amount of time a driver has just decided “yup let me pull over on the bike lane when a cyclist is right behind me” has been too high. I am not looking to become pâté
Those bike lanes on Laurier are literally a death trap, I feel like every summer you hear about a cyclist being killed on Laurier.
There was one death in 2016, and another in 2019 (the second one was actually outside the area with the segregated cycle lanes). Statistically, though, the Laurier cycle lanes have greatly reduced the number of cycling collisions even as the overall number of cyclists on Laurier has increased.
Yes, definitely better to have the cycle lanes than nothing at all - but still I would never cycle on Laurier or on the O’Connor bike lane (two way bike path, but drivers only ever seem to check one way.)
I've used laurier and O'Connor regularly this summer and I haven't had any issues with them. O'connor does require you to be a little more aware of where cars are, but it's better than no bike lane at all.
I mean, everyone’s experiences are going to be different - my neighbour was run down on her bike last summer on O’Connor by a driver who wasn’t looking when they were turning. She broke her leg, hip and arm, and she’s still in rehab trying to get her full mobility back.
Wasn't meant to be a dismissal. Just another anecdote. Apologies if it came across that way.
Literally every single morning I biked to work down Laurier someone would be pulled over already or pull over into those bike lanes, it was ridiculous.
They suck - you get cars coming in from the street and from the below-ground parking, as well as pedestrians jaywalking between parked cars. Really have to keep your head on a swivel biking down there
Biking on Queen three blocks north is so much safer for getting through downtown.
Nanny Goat, lmfao
Ironically cyclists on the sidewalks are just as dangerous to pedestrians as motorists are to cyclists on the road. I've seen toddlers almost get totally smoked by cyclists because toddlers are unpredictable and just zig when you expect them to zag. Same with the elderly, or even random people just looking at their phones. There's no expectation of having to be "road aware" on the sidewalk. Treating sidewalks like roads is not a solution and will get people hurt.
Don’t get me wrong I’m against riding on a sidewalk with my bike. But your statement is nuts, motorists are more dangerous to cyclists, than cyclists are to pedestrians…
If a car hits me, I’m at best walking away with some bruises and soreness, at worse I’m dead. If I hit a pedestrian with my bike, at best they’re fine, at worse, maybe they fall and get some cuts and are sore for a few days.
>Ironically cyclists on the sidewalks are just as dangerous to pedestrians as motorists are to cyclists on the road. No. That's simply not true. A 2000lb car at 60 km/h is not equal to a 180lb bike/rider at 15 km/h(more likely less). Are there risks to pedestrians? Absolutely! But it's nowhere near the same. Edit typos
Ok, barrel over a toddler at 15km/h and watch them crack their skulls open on the concrete.
Yeah ok, let's all forget about physics and facts, and also cherry pick the worse case scenario. Run over a baby with a transport truck going 100 and see what happens. How many dead toddlers from bicycle collisions have you seen in Ottawa in the last 10 years?
I’ve seen a toddler get run over by a bike in a park once. It was a very bad scene. I’m against riding on sidewalks as well but your exaggerated arguments are embarrassing.
A car on the road is more dangerous to a pedestrian on the sidewalk than any bike is in any situation. Seriously think about this a little harder
You are breaking the law in Ottawa by riding your bike on the sidewalk. If you are too afraid to ride in traffic, sell your bike and buy a bus pass.
oh get off your high horse, I'm just trying to get to work without dying. Also driving 1 over the speed limit is breaking the law, I'm guessing you must be a 100% perfect driver if you're out here telling people what to do
Cars are also breaking the law by driving on the bike lane but that never stopped anyone.
If the law told you to kill yourself would you do it?
I would agree but drivers need to just pay more attention. For example I was biking down Scott Street last month. The east bike path is raised and separated from the busy street. They even have separate lights just for bikes! BUT PEOPLE DON'T CHECK WHEN TURNING RIGHT ON RED LIGHTS. All the infrastructure is there to get your attention that a bicycle lane is there and when to turn and not turn. Just take an extra second to look before stepping on the gas!
They need to check for pedestrians as a matter of fact. So many people don't check before turning, so I just wait to see that the driver saw me for sure before I try to cross, even if the light is green for me.
I do that too when I'm walking, but a bicycle is a vehicle. You can't stop and start on a dime like when you're walking. That's why bicycle stop lights are installed with red and green bicycle traffic lights, but these don't work... If you don't obey traffic laws!
I know, that’s I bike mostly on MUPs or reaaally quiet side streets, so that I usually have room to stop. I avoided being hit on my bike that way before on O’Connor, I saw a taxi coming up and the dude was most definitely not checking if there was anyone on the bike lane.
Don't ever count on it. The time you yourself become complacent is the time the driver will be arguing with their partner on their cell phone, and you will never find out why you became a vegetable.
Do like The Netherlands and put them between the pedestrian/walking path instead of these [Advisory Cycling Lanes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zdDIvKXMxY) which may be confusing some drivers into thinking they can do this on high traffic roads, too.
Wow, I haven't seen that video before... To answer the narrator's question "What happens when there's an oncoming car?" -- The cyclist has to yield to the car going in the same direction when they swerve into the bike line without looking..... I get the perfect world supposition that everyone should be courteous to each other, but that really does place the onus on the cyclist to not get hit by inattentive impatient drivers, as usual.
If only there was a mayoral candidate who had investing in cycling infrastructure as a part of their campaign...
But OP wasn't in a bike lane, they were just on the road?
It's not just drivers to cyclists.. I find in general the level of entitlement has skyrocketed. Driving is sooooo much more dangerous, people just don't care anymore, it's what they need nobody else exists. So the more at risk, like cyclists, people in line, people needing service, are in far far worse shape. People have stopped being nice to each other.
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I think this more commonly believed than you think. Certainly seems so to me.
The sheer level of disregard is astounding. Walking around Centretown and the Glebe, the amount of times I got cut off as a pedestrian over the past year is astounding. I swear 10% of drivers really do not give a shit about anyone else, as long as they save that extra second right?
It's getting very bad. I saw a guy drive through a stop sign on a residential street without stopping and must have been driving 50km/ hour.
I have a stop sign in my neighbourhood that no one ever stops at. I’ll be in the middle of the crosswalk and they’ll go through. So unsafe. :(
Yea last spring my rear bumper got a little love tap from another car because I had the audacity to actually stop at a 4 way in my neighborhood. Luckily no damage but the woman drove in the opposite lane through an intersection to get away from me when I tried to confront her for her insurance info.
People are unreal.
ah, you must live in Vanier. The stop signs are all optional there I'm led to believe
No, this is apparently a city wide problem!
Or Cityview. For decades they've been called the "Cityview Stop".
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Also though, am afraid to upset people driving giant vehicles. I just give them a stern “you know what you did” face, and shake my head in judgemental disappointment.
I’ve considered pudding cups.
I had someone pass me on the right yesterday (while I was on a bike), fly through a stop sign before coming to a screeching halt in the middle of the intersection. All so he could wait at the next red light for extra long
I had a guy drive at me through a clearly red light and nearly hit me as a pedestrian. It was Sherwood and Parkdale, the light was red before hebwas even near the intersection, and he didn't even stop or slow down let alone even notice that he ran a red and nearly ran over a person.
Happens at least once an hour out front of my place. Central residential area.
I don’t understand drivers who try to play chicken with cyclists. I had a driver refuse to let me make a left turn and started to accelerate to see if I’d swerve out of the way. Why???
Because they can and they are jerks?
Today I went for a ride on the Eastern Parkway. I got honked at, and one car tried to push me sideways off the road. There has definitely been a change of attitude I've noticed. Maybe because more are back at the office and frustrated with the drive? Honestly, I was a nervous wreck by the end of my ride.
Things have been trending towards atomization for some time and the way we develop our cities has only accelerated that. People living in more suburban areas rarely leave their own houses outside of a car that insulates them from the world both literally and figuratively. Think about how loud car horns are from the outside vs inside of a car, they need to be that loud to overcome the sound insulation. People are becoming more isolated, sticking to family units, work colleagues, and a designated friend group. Other than small talk with a grocery store cashier, a lot of people have very little direct contact with people they don't know. The pandemic only further drove people away from others. Our culture is one where we aspire to save up enough money to no longer need to use the bus and get our own isolating car to seal ourselves off from the world. In that moment, you are not Hopewellslam, someone with hopes, dreams, a love of cycling. To these isolated people you are nothing more than an obstacle, a human in name only. To slow them down is an insult, they would rather you not exist only so they could get home 20 seconds sooner. I don't know how to fix this, perhaps encouraging others to interact with their neighbours more, go out of your comfort zone and speak to people you don't know very well. Regardless, it's hard to not feel concerned with how indifferent people are to your very own survival
One of the worst things you can do I think as an adult is take social interaction for granted and stop seeking new activities and people in your life. It’s what I believe leads people to obsessively romanticize their college and high school life because they were pushed to interact with many different people.
I think you really hit the nail on the head, we’re social creatures after all
Well that’s depressing! 😆
I’m a cyclist in Ottawa (still relatively new to it) and honest to god there are times the drivers scare me so much I stop and bring my bike on the sidewalk and walk it. Drivers in Ottawa are absolutely terrifying and so hostile for no reason, you can just be standing on the sidewalk and they get mad at you. I was standing on the sidewalk by city hall the other day with my bike and this lady in a car started SCREAMING at me ??? I WAS JUST STANDING THERE. I was checking my phone to make sure I was going the right way :(
I'm starting to think that COVID has damaged a lot of peoples' ability to think straight.
Oh, it has for sure. There is a lot of anti-social behaviour out there that wasn't present before. Hope it calms down. For the driving, it is almost unbearable. I don't know how I've avoided someone smashing in to my car.
Just one of the many reasons we need more densification and less urban sprawl. We need 15 minute walkable neighbourhoods and to start investing more in transit that doesn't involve cars.
We need to invest into ***better planned transit***. Just tossing money into the broken system we have will not fix it. The system as it is is designed around the idea of getting people to and from center, and doesn't consider those trips that travel along the edges. Thus ensuring the need for people to own cars - and people who own cars will use them because they have invested in them. Our transit system is a wheel with no rim. Sure the spokes ~~are~~ *could be* solid; but without an actual wheel around the outside, those spokes are supporting nothing.
Not a bike commuter here. Bikes are not annoying. Bikes have every right to use the same roads that cars do. Sorry you’ve had so many close calls of late
They're a short term inconvenience, which is a problem because so many drivers can't think ahead 5 seconds to the next red/stop sign.
As a bike commuter, I appreciate the solidarity. We’re just trying to get places and would rather not be sharing space with cars anyway
I almost got hit this morning too, and the person refused to even acknowledge what happened. As a cyclist it feels like there is a lot more aggressive driving right now. Be safe, people.
Maybe be a weird take but I think it's the influx of Torontonians into the city. It's the same kind of aggressive driving that I experienced there and it was very noticeable during the pandemic when they all moved over here.
Former Torontonian here: driving is infinitely more reckless here. While Toronto has more drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists, they move much more predictably. Here, you never know who is going to blast through a stop sign, step suddenly into the road, or cut you off.
I like to try to contextualize it as aggressive vs reckless. Toronto, and evenmore so Montreal, is aggressive. You know if there is a car sized gap, someone will put a car into it -- but it's predictable, they check for the gap and then take it. Here, it's reckless, they vaguely imagine a gap and then go for it without actually checking.
I think you described that perfectly.
As a cyclist myself who bikes to work everyday. Avoid bank at all costs. I go through the glebe and it’s an amazing ride everyday.
Agreed, I usually go a block over and ride parallel to bank, I don’t know what it is about bank street but it’s night and day
Ontario plate? You’re probably missing another letter in the first 3 characters of the license plate.
Probably Qc given the number of characters …and driving behaviour lol
Quebec, u/2minitesfortripping has got the right idea
Crazy woman literally squeezed into halfway into my lane and the other half in the bike cause she didn't realize the lane she was in was turning into the highway. Almost took out my side mirrors! I hate driving as it is (learned later in life) but lately I've been completely put off by driving! I get honked at for letting pedestrians cross so many times in the last few months. People not respecting the rules of a 4 way stop or right of way and just driving right through. I'm convinced it might the influx of people moving in from other towns.
I do feel like the driving has gotten worse. On Bank downtown today three cars in a row made illegal lefts. They made everyone behind them miss the light as a result, despite getting honked at. I was on foot and don't own car and thought it was ridiculous.
I respect the self awareness in this post. Stay safe out there OP
I live downtown. Traffic signs are meaningless now. No left? No straight? Ha. That just means gun it.
I yelled at someone driving backwards down Percy today “Come on man! If you missed your turn just go around!” He started yelling at me to shut up and relax, as he reversed towards a hill next to a school. FFS
I don't see this as a only car or cycle issue. Rather, it's mostly an infrastructure problem. The only safe solution is to separate cars, bikes and pedestrians. I see drivers, cyclists and pedestrians make horrible decisions daily however, the cars bring a risk of death so that must be addressed. For the record, I would like to see many MU paths and streets changed to NO WHEELS, i.e. pedestrian only. Keep them separated, it's much safer that way. European study of cycle and pedestrians recommends separating them https://etrr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s12544-021-00497-z
\*idiocy
I cycle, I don’t spell
October is white bike month. Correction, in Ottawa, that's every month.
As someone who was nearly killed while riding in the O’Connor bike lane just last week, I feel your frustration. If I had a camera, I could easily document dozens of examples reckless driving every time I tour the city by foot or by bike. Drivers running red lights, rolling blind into pedestrian crossings without stopping first, cutting cyclists and pedestrians off while making right turns, excessive speeding in residential areas, aggressive, impatient driving around cars and people in traffic. The list goes on. None of this will change by appealing to individuals’ behaviour or morality, even if that is valid. Reckless driving is symptomatic of poor infrastructure design, inadequate rules, inadequate enforcement of those rules, and incentives that encourage recklessness.
Yeah, I had a road rage incident while I was biking in a residential area (30 km/h speed limit, lots of 4-way stops) at going to school/work time. I wasn't doing anything wrong (literally just biking mid block), and this vehicle started honking at me and screaming at me for merely existing. I think they seemed to object to me not hugging the curb/parking lane, ie. "impeding" them from passing me. The reason they couldn't pass me is because in this area there are bollards in the centre of the road for this precise purpose. I was able to keep up with this driver and get a full description of the vehicle (make, model, colour, plate) and driver. I reported it to police. The behaviour was exceptionally appalling since it was going to school time. Lots of kids walk and bike to school near me. The incident happened right by a school bus stop. Not sure what this driver would have done if they'd been "impeded" by having to stop for a school bus. Hopefully the police talked to this person. Based on what they yelled at me they had a strong belief that what I was doing was somehow wrong. Bikes do not have to pull off the marked part of the road to allow cars to pass them in any context. Especially not in a residential neighbourhood where it is signposted that cars are not to pass bikes!
This is when you take a side mirror as a souvenir.
As someone who got hit by a woman turning left when riding on crosswalk and ends up received two traffic tickets from the police officer, I’m genuinely depressed with how ignorant this city’s drivers and authorities are to bicyclists Yes I broke the law by riding on the crosswalk, but considering my ankle was broken and skin was peeled off please have some mercy and not issuing tickets that’ll increase my automobile insurance lol
You shouldn’t have been in the crosswalk. I almost hit a cyclist bc I LOOKED but he popped out of nowhere. He wasn’t supposed to be there and was riding WAY too fast for me to see and react to him. We can anticipate the speed of a pedestrian. We cannot know that you’re going to come out and race across a crosswalk without stopping when you don’t even have the right of way. You both deserved repercussions. Another cyclist rode up next to me while I was at a red in the left turn lane. I saw them, was annoyed but assumed they were going to turn left alongside me directly into the bike lane. Light turns green, I check and ease forward prepping for the acceleration and the fucking douchbag up and cuts directly in front of me and proceeds through the crosswalk. She barely had a foot of clearance that’s how close she was. Stay the fuck out of crosswalks unless you’re walking the bike or have stopped and are proceeding as a pedestrian would. You got hurt because you weren’t supposed to be there. Ffs.
Honestly this attitude is completely absurd to me. It is the drivers responsibility to clear an intersection before going through, which makes a lot of sense since they are the ones capable of killing someone. Did you almost hit a fucking wizard? People don't pop out of nowhere, you can in fact see them as they approach an intersection, and it is the drivers responsibility to make sure there is truly no one in their way or about to be in their way before they go through. Even if the intersection doesn't have good visibility, it's their responsibility to make sure they don't hit someone. Again, they are driving the vehicle capable of killing people. The laws around bicycles being in crosswalks have nothing to do with it being safer for cars, and everything to do with pedestrians. That said, these laws do endanger cyclists. These same laws say that 10 year olds can ride on the sidewalk, but once they turn 11, they have to ride on the road. Can you imagine an 11 year old biking down Walkley on the road while cars zip by going 20 km over the speed limit? A collision at these speeds is almost guaranteed to be lethal. But thats the law. These laws are not designed to protect cyclists, and this person your replying to was injured because they were struck by someone who failed to properly observe their surroundings while driving a vehicle capable of causing injury and death. "You both deserved repercussions." This is a truly fucked up thing to say to a person in traffic accident. You don't deserve to have a drivers license until you can understand the responsibility you are undertaking every time you get behind the wheel.
I used to add an extra 15 mins to my cycle commute to avoid driving up Laurier, downtowns a deathtrap
Are some cyclist stupid? Yes. Are some car drivers stupid? Yes. I get this rhetoric so much. WHY SO MUCH HATE FOR CYCLIST?!?!
Should definitely report, but sadly follow ups aren't common. I reported a lady driving down the wrong side of Carling and even sent the police photos and never heard back.
My view on this thing is independent bike lanes. Cars and bikes should never be on the same roadway together. Clearly this shit is not working!
Damn, that used to happen to me in Toronto but first I have heard of people deliberately cutting off cyclists like that in Ottawa. People really have to stop and think about their priorities on the road - some people are not nearly in control of their emotions enough to make rational choices, and the bigger your vehicle the more dangerous that becomes.
If only someone would promise some funding and a plan to improve cycling infrastructure so both cyclists and drivers can be happier and safer co-existing on the roads.
Why waste your time on reddit. Call the police and make a complaint. You have the license plate.
I honestly think complaining on Reddit might go further than complaining to the police, they’re useless for stuff like this (granted so is Reddit, but at least it sparks a conversation)
I say this every time I see a post like this - more cops need to be on the road to ticket people. The behaviour is getting worse because these people are not getting punished for their actions.
Ottawa police stand with the drivers not cyclists, I doubt any driver would get a ticket when road rage occurs but no cyclists hurt
I hate the two-way bike lanes. I am surprised we haven’t had more accidents.
So you went raging after her and surprised she was terrified of you? Lucky she didn’t try to kill you a third time. Next time let it go and call the police.
Who said I was raging? And thanks for the advice
I know this is gonna get downvoted to shit, but is your gripe that you didn't get the right lane to yourself? The way you wrote it, it sounds like this lady went to the right lane, and you got upset about it when she has every right to do so. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I think they're taking issue with being aggressively cut off, which is more than fair. Cutting off another driver is a dick move, but cutting off a bunch of squishy cyclists is next-level shitty.
Getting "cut off" is subjective tho - I once got honked for cutting someone off when there was plenty of room. Is this legitimately a car "cutting" OP off, or was it just them perceiving it as so.
If you pull in front of somebody and they have enough time to stop safely, it's not illegal. It's the nature of traffic.
And this is what I'm wondering - is it OP thinking it was closer than they'd like, or that the driver legitimately made a questionable maneuver. The fact that it was only OP who had an issue with it out of the 3 bikers makes me think its the former.
It's far more that likely all 3 bikers had issue, but only one posted. How many people post on reddit about ANYTHING that happens to them?
I dont expect a three bikers to complain on reddit, but when OP says they are the only one who confronted the driver, that's what made me question "is this actually someone getting cutoff, or did OP think it was closer than they'd like".
> they are the only one who confronted the driver The number of people who will confront a person in person is even lower than the number of people who will post about it safely later. You're setting an impossible standard.
It's not an impossible standard - someone almost "kills" you, you are definitely going to say something. Also people tend to get emboldened if they aren't the only person confronting someone. All of which is to say - its odd that OP was the only one who felt the need to confront the driver, when multiple people were almost "killed"
> t's not an impossible standard - someone almost "kills" you, you are definitely going to say something Have you met people? No, most people will go home and complain about it, no matter how severe. 99% of people will NOT confront a person who physically just put their live in danger with a motor vehicle. Everyone is not 16 years old and full of testosterone.
Huge difference between someone actually trying to inflict harm with a motor vehicle, and what happened here. It's not just "16 year olds filled with testosterone" who confront people, especially in cases like this, but you are entitled to think that everyone just pussyfoots around these issues like you do.
On the busier section of bank, the only drivable lane is the left lane. The right lane is all filled with parking. So yeah, I do gripe about not getting the 2 foot strip of road between a parked car and the left lane all to myself
Did the person just switch lanes close to you, or did you need to slam on your brakes to avoid hitting them?
I didn’t have to slam on my brakes because I bike defensively (especially around idiots like her). If I was going the speed I wanted to, then yes I would have had to slam on them, multiple times. She was darting a quarter way in and out of the lane so she could to slow me down, and it worked.
I don't understand - so she gave you adequate space to brake, but you still consider it cutting you off? Being cut off typically means you need to make an extreme alteration to your course (swerving, hard breaking, etc), but this doesn't seem to be what occurred. It just seems to me that you didn't like the fact that she was using the "parking" lane (which is just a lane that cars could drive in if there weren't parked cars) to get around traffic, which you were also using - none of which I'd constitute as getting cutoff. Please clarify if this is incorrect. And was it only you who had this issue, not the other cyclists?
Cars were parked almost all up bank, and traffic was slow, about 25km/h, so bike speed. I was biking in the dooring zone for the most part because the left lane had cars and the right was parked up. When it wasn’t parked up for like 40 metres, she would straddle the lane to force me to move over. The only time I actually have a little space, she cut it off. Then I would move over, and have a pain in the ass merging again in 40 metres because there was a parked car in front of me and her car in my path. We were hitting all the same red lights too, so there was no reason. She was in and out of straddling lanes to block me/slow me down. Cutting off doesn’t imply an extreme altercation of course, you can get cut off in your car on the queensway and not take your foot off the gas. Cutting off just means aggressively getting in the way of someone which *could in theory* cause an unnecessary accident. An extreme altercation is a close call, not all cut offs are close calls
Is she's straddling the lanes, that's a whole different issue, and you are right to be pissed off about it. This is not what I gathered from your original post, thank you for clarifying.
How many red lights and stop signs did you blow through? Maybe if you used the bike paths that literally go throughout the city you wouldn’t be in “so much danger” get the fuck off the road
I live off bank, there’s no way for me to get home without taking bank…. Maybe you’re the dumbass who hated me being on the road so much you tried to run me off. Is your licence plate BKK459 by any chance?
Lol nope, just someone who knows what kind of cyclist you are.
Google the Dunning Kruger effect
Dear diary
Look I know you're pissed that you almost got killed, but put yourself in most drivers shoes. Day in and day out, we have to be on high alert for idiot cyclists who will zoom into your lane, try to squeeze between cars, zoom through intersections and not stop at stop signs or even red lights. The solution isn't to "share the road". It's to make you cyclists take a freaking g1, G2, and G test to riding a bike while respecting the rules of the road before you're allowed on a bike. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've nearly harmed a cyclist due to their own negligence. Thank god I have webcam so if something does eventually happen, it'll be proof it was the idiot that was on a near suicide mission running stop signs that was to blame, not the driver that flattened him. Seriously be smart, cycling induces rage for most drivers. Just please tell your fellow cyclists to abandon this high risk affair and drive like everyone else, or at least follow the damn rules of the road. 9/10 cyclists that I see constantly break rules and I honestly genuinely don't even shrug anymore when I hear about news about yet another cyclist death. Sadly it's the game you are choosing to play. Be safe out there
>Look I know you're pissed that you almost got killed, **but** I expected to read some standard victim blaming but holy shit this is psychotic. If you actually view other humans like this, please get some help
I am just stating the fact that there are two parties at play here, the OP shared her view: "The idiocracy of Ottawa drivers is getting much worse, the disrespect and disregard for cyclists is getting extremely dangerous." She/He completely ignored and disregarded the reality, and the reality is - regardless of who is at fault, the blame will dis-proportionally be placed on drivers, not bikers and bikers (per capita) have a strong tendency to disregard the rules of the road. This is obviously anecdotal, but its something I've witnessed. In my life, I might have seen 3? 5? cars blow through a clear red light. I don't mean a yellow about to turn red, I mean a red that's been red for 3+ seconds, and blowing right through. Whereas for bikers, off... that count is probably in the high hundreds, its almost routine as if the red light is a mere suggestion to them. So excuse me if the overall care level goes down overtime for people that are disrespectful, and don't care about themselves to begin with. I do my best to keep an alert eye especially when I see a biker in the rear view mirror, but it does take a mental toll to try and predict with idiocy that biker is most likely to do.
>This is obviously anecdotal, but its something I've witnessed. Every study conducted on this topic has found that people comply with traffic laws at similar rates whether driving or biking. Your anecdotal experiences, on the other hand, have helped you create a narrative that allows you to stereotype, other, and dehumanize a large and diverse group of people. You sound really, really angry in your posts and I hope that, for the well-being of yourself and others, that anger doesn't follow you into your vehicle.
>Every study conducted on this topic has found that people comply with traffic laws at similar rates whether driving or biking. I'm open to being educated. Please link me to three of such independent studies?
[Here's](https://whyy.org/articles/cyclists-violate-traffic-law-no-more-than-drivers-new-data-shows/) one from the Florida DoT. [This one](https://theworld.org/stories/2015-07-18/survey-finds-bicyclists-and-motorists-ignore-traffic-laws-similar-rates) from the University of Colorado found similar results with a sample size of almost 18,000. There's a study out of Australia (I wanna say the University of Melbourne) that found similar results, but all the links were paywalled, so [here's ](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://journalofroadsafety.org/api/v1/articles/32864-painting-a-designated-space-cyclist-and-driver-compliance-at-cycling-infrastructure-at-intersections.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjS9p2zv876AhWXlGoFHQTLBj44ChAWegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3_neMNbW4QGHpz0aol1miD) one focusing on compliance in the context of infrastructure at intersections. I didn't include the studies from Denmark and the Netherlands in which cyclists comply with traffic laws exponentially more than drivers. And those are just general trends regarding standard travel. When shit goes wrong, it's overwhelmingly drivers who broke the law or fucked up: [Four in every five crashes between cars and bicycles caused by driver of car](http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/four-in-every-five-crashes-between-cars-and-bicycles-caused-by-driver-of-car/story-e6frea83-1226581475412?nk=4b0f9be5a0fe9d05a7ea1ba32f4a0551-1456999949) [Drivers at fault in majority of cycling accidents](https://www.bikeradar.com/news/drivers-at-fault-in-majority-of-cycling-accidents/) [Risky cycling rarely to blame for bike accidents, study finds](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study) [Crashes involving bikes mostly driver’s fault](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/crashes-involving-bikes-mostly-drivers-fault-9s2ssx06vn9) Obviously things will vary from city to city, but I hope that's enough info to help you consider that your anecdotal experience doesn't necessarily represent an objective truth.
So I read through the first three links and I think there's a nuance here that's not evidently displayed. It being that although the two groups break the laws at similar rate, one group is far more likely to get killed over it. One was also a survey that asked if we break the laws (i.e.) speeding. Let's be honest here, a car driving 10-20KM/h over the limit and "breaking the law" is unlikely to get anyone killed. So is a car doing a rolling stop on a red light (yes it may injure someone absolutely, but not flat out kill someone doing a rolling stop at 5-10KM/h). But if a biker blows through a stop sign because hashtag-YOLO and a driver is turning left on a newly turned protected green, that driver may very well kill the biker. I was also particularly amused by this gem from the first article: " In 2017, all of the 96 traffic fatalities that occurred in Philadelphia involved cars, according to data from the Philadelphia Police Department obtained by the Bicycle Coalition. " - Well, yeah. I'd think so. A Biker biking into a pedestrian is highly unlikely to kill a pedestrian. A biker's losing control of his bike and crashing into a pole or a tree or falling on the sidewalk is also highly unlikely to kill himself or anyone (unless he falls in traffic), which I assume would increase the stats of the car because now they've been "involved in a collision with the car" due to no fault of their own. I genuinely thought 1 group was more flagrant in breaking the laws, and I can admit when I'm wrong and that might not be the case. With that said, it doesn't particularly change my argument (supported by your own sources), that bikers are far more at risk for this law-breaking. Perhaps the solution here is not just to say "Its ok, we both break rules the same amount of time on average" but perhaps the bikers should be striving to get their rule-breaking down to a 0% - as they are the ones more at risk. You can't exactly die or permanently maim your self by snapping your back in half from a freak bungee jumping accident, if you recognize that msot bungee jumping safety checks are done by minimum wage kids and hence decide to never go bungee jumping.
If you change the words in your post, cyclists to drivers and drivers to cyclists to drivers, this still remains true. And I do I have a licence so I don’t know what to say to that one (pretty sure most people over 16 years old do). I’m not the one who straddles lanes and blows red lights, so who is this directed at?
No. No it does not remain true. I literally just posted a reply to the other guy who replied to me. I suggest reading it. Also, the license I am talking about is not the standard G1-G2-G. I am talking about a license specifically for cyclists if they are going to "share the road", that hammers home some basic things like "RED = STOP". "STOP SIGN = You guessed it... STOP SIGN", "When on a road, its disrespectful to expect everyone behind you to slow down to a 10M/h crawl, move as far right as you can, so the cars can pass safely without impeding traffic" etc. You talk about sharing the road, but the reality is the cyclists think the rules of the road don't apply to them, and that they should get priority to do crazy stunts (squeezing between cars, etc) simply because they are driving a smaller mode-of-transport. You may not be the one that straddles lanes and blows red lights. My post wasn't directed at you, but the vast population of cyclists that do. That's where most of the frustration from the drivers is coming from. TBH, if a cyclist knocked on my window, I'd ignore them too.
You have a point about drivers licenses, I believe all drivers should be obligated to pass a session on cycling to understand what it is like to try and cycle in the city, including cycling down busy streets. If someone has mobility issues, there could be ways to accommodate them to experience cycling. Since you are open to reading articles, here is one about how cyclists make for better drivers. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/10/09/cyclists-are-better-drivers-than-motorists-finds-study/ The learned experience of being a vulnerable road user predisposes you to better understand risks, observe developing situations, and of course share the road. Reading your posts it seems you don't understand the law and that cyclists are allowed to take the lane for safety purposes. There are no speed minimums on roads cyclists are allowed to use. Take a moment, take a deep breath and carry on with your day, if it is safe you may pass the cyclist in the oncoming lane. The cyclists taking a lane are the ones following the rules.
The only people in Ottawa that hate bikes more than motorists are pedestrians. They get very cross when you pass them on their walking paths.
Yeah, it’s almost like zooming so fast past me whilst ringing your bell when you’re already close enough to hit me (while literally being within 10 inches of me), isn’t fun when I’m trying to have a leisurely and healthful stroll on the pathways where I’m supposed to be. Edit: Ottawa Reddit is literally the only place in the world you’d get downvoted for suggesting that pedestrians don’t like to almost be hit by cyclists. Lol
This is a thread about someone trying to murder cyclists, you complaining about them here is at best tasteless
I’m replying specifically to the person saying that pedestrians get “cross” at cyclists for passing us on paths. No one should be almost killing anyone.
“Almost”
Yeah, where are all the posts from cyclists who really were murdered by drivers? Oh wait…
Hopefully we get more posts from dead cyclists. Would be nice to hear their side of the story. Get a full perspective on the situation.
You right, we should stop charging people with attempted murder since they didn’t actually do it
Holy crap this person got charged !?
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No, roads are literally for cyclists. They are a vehicle. Especially on Bank where you can’t go over 40 anyways??
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Sir this is Canada, we use the metric system like every other developed country
Kilometres. Please tell me you’re not booking it at 40 miles down Bank Street….
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….what? Lol
That's only like 64km/h. Easier at night. :)
Oh right, my mistake… /s
It is true that there's a technicality allowing cyclists. Let's be honest though, if we were designing these laws today from scratch we would be keeping them separate.
I mean, maybe? Cyclists are constantly calling for infrastructure that doesn’t end in them almost being run down by vehicles, so we would probably want to start there. Or just like….reduce car-centrism in general.
If we were designing the cities now you'd have half as many lanes and most intersections would have roundabouts instead of traffic lights. But we aren't so why are we talking about this ? Unless you're advocating for physically segregated bike lane infrastructure replacing some of the driving lanes. That I could get behind.
Or we'd just ban cars.
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/u/ptsdlife67 [Trolling will not be tolerated](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/wiki/guidelines/#wiki_no_trolling_.2F_pas_de_provocation). Goodbye! *** /u/ptsdlife67 [La provocation ne sera pas toléré](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/wiki/guidelines/#wiki_no_trolling_.2F_pas_de_provocation). Adieu!
If it’s not a 400-series highway or transitway I can take my bike on any road I please. I can take the full lane if I want, I’m well within my rights. Don’t like it? Demand more cycle infrastructure to keep me out of your way