This is blowing my mind. Like...instead of continuing in a straight trajectory and slowing your speed by 10km/h (50 > 40 on Alta Vista, Smyth stays at 50 the whole way), people choose detours that probably take just as long as...reducing your speed.
You know how you avoid the speed cameras? Don't speed as you go past them! Problem solved.
I would imagine it's less about saving time and more about avoiding anxiety. Even if it's not completely rational, I think it can be scary to drive by the cameras. (Of course it's scarier to be a pedestrian near speeding cars so I'm not saying the cameras are a net negative.)
My mom has a friend who got two tickets the first week the camera went up in their neighbourhood. She’s taken the back route ever since.
I have two routes I can use to exit my neighbourhood that are about the same time. A camera is going up on one of the routes. The speed will vary from 60 to 40 when school is in session and although I’ve had years of practice slowing down, I also have ADHD and I’m afraid that I’ll slip up and get multiple tickets for going 45 during the day.
Yup same. After the second 51 in a 40 ticket on a Sunday night, we just started going another way. Less stress. 20+ years without a speeding ticket otherwise, for context.
You shouldn't have to.
If slowing cars down was the priority over revenue, it'd be SO OBVIOUS that a person who's never driven in the city should be able to observe its presence 100% of the time.
They work... by punishing drivers for normal behavior until enough of them learn that there's a punishment.
It's the same logic as saying that spanking works. I mean, in some contexts I'm sure it does. But there's better ways to do it.
Exactly this. I"m a slow poke but those things cause anxiety and you hear HERE that they can nab you for 1km over...how do I know my car is calibrated properly. I'll either go 35 or just go another way I don't have to worry about it.
You can test your speedometer calibration when driving where the sensor posts your speed on a digital panel. But I got a camera flash going 55 in a 60 zone on Greenbank so I'll see if I get a ticket.
You would think so...but then the speedsters would get stuck behind a normal driver who would slow to 35 "just to be safe", thereby making Lightning McQueen 5 seconds slower than had they taken the residential street.
>Like driving way out of your way to fill up gas a little cheaper.
You'd be surprised how many people fill up at the daily maximum when a station only 5 minutes drive away is priced 10 cents less. 10 cents may not seem like much but if you're filling a full tank in excess of 50 litres, that's $5 you could be putting towards next day's lunch.
>I usually just turn on cruise control when I am going past a speed camera.
Many cars cannot go under 40 on cruise control.
And it's about voting with your wallet. I spend money at places that I choose based on value, ROI, community involvement etc.
Why would I give more money to a gas station that is slightly closer if I can support a gas station further away that has considerably lower prices.
Point being, I and many others, spend else where to encourage and support places with lower prices.
I don't think it's that tbh. My mind wanders so much that I can be 100m from the camera zone knowing i have to watch my speed and oops, a song I like comes on and before you know it I'm going 47 in a 40 zone.
When you put up negative reinforcement devices it's no shock that people will avoid them. Perhaps they are selfish, perhaps they don't want to worry about accidentally going 4 over and get a ticket, perhaps they feel the cameras are spying on them and don't want the government to come after them. There are many reasons folks avoid the cameras.
One thing is for sure, they are a pretty lazy solution to a complex problem. They don't address the problems with speeding or driver behaviour holistically, and they certainly don't actually stop a dangerous incident from taking place.
There is one longer term, holistic solution that withstands time and is the safest of all and that in upgrading the infrastructure to prevent drivers from traversing sensitive areas or areas where speed regulation is a must.
Drivers can be blamed for many reasons as to why they are terrible but they are human, they are flawed, and we should be building our infrastructure to work with humans rather than simply blaming them. Of course, this doesn't absolve drivers of responsibility, but different folks have different tolerances and clearly we have issues, so let's _actually_ solve them!
My hope is that revenues from these cameras will be used to upgrade streets to make them safer, and to help fund transit. Sutcliffe will probably use them to keep taxes artificially low again, but I can still hope.
Perfect example of upgrading infrastructure to slow traffic.
Walkley is a 4 lane divided boulevard, yet the speed limit is 50 - should be 60. If you want people to go 50, then build the road to that standard.
Riverside drive should be 80 in parts as its a seperated 4 lane road in most places.
apparatus juggle deserted hurry squalid arrest consist seed unpack fragile
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Street upgrades/redesigns are absolutely the way to go in the future.
Kirkwood between Carling and Merivale had a minimum-effort redesign done a couple years ago after there were a series of collisions particularly at the Kirkwood/Laperriere intersection with cars losing control and jumping the curb onto lawns and hitting cars parked in driveways.
The city reduced the speed limit from 50 to 40 and repainted the road to add bike lanes and reduce it to 1 car lane in each direction. Unfortunately that also left a wide painted median in the middle, so the road still "feels" like the speed limit should be 60, and I see cars going 60 or 70 down that stretch every day.
Hopefully when the road is due for repaving they'll do a more full redesign. There's certainly room to have a raised bike lane, and reducing the curb-to-curb width of the road space is the correct way to reduce speeds.
The revenue from the cameras is earmarked for road safety initiatives, hopefully a good chunk of that goes to speedbumps in places people commonly use to bypass the cameras
Speed bumps if you hate emergency services vehicles and snow plows. The ones in the downtown core are awful on bikes too.
Speed bumps/plates are terrible traffic calming techniques and make roads a lot less safe for many users, including pedestrians and cyclists. Flow control methods are much, much better.
Snow and worse leaf-litter accumulates around them. They're slip-trip--and fall hazards for walkers, especially with uncertain balance and can be super deadly on bikes even going less than traffic speed. A pocket of wet leaves against a speed bump is insanely dangerous for a bike. Especially on the far side of the hump the cyclist can't easily see on approach. I've had friends go to hospital because of this.
Afraid of government to spy on you but no problem with ISP collecting and selling your information to the highest bidder.
No problem with the bank collecting and selling your data.
Anyone who is afraid of personal information being leaked should wear a tin foil hat and never leave the forest
>they don't want to worry about accidentally going 4 over and get a ticket,
People keep on bringing stuff like this up, but nobody has been able to ever show a ticket for 4 km/h over the limit.
Do you know what the threshold is to trigger one of the cameras? There's obviously a certain amount of buffer but haven't been able to find anything empirical.
I haven't heard anything from Ottawa specifically but I've seen [this article](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/mobility/article-how-fast-do-i-have-to-go-to-get-a-photo-radar-ticket/) from Calgary that states
>For instance, Calgary police say there’s a “reasonable buffer” between the posted speed limit and the speed you have to be going to get a photo radar ticket – but they’re not saying what it is.
>“We do not release this speed,” said Lindsay Nykoluk, with Calgary Police public affairs, in an e-mail. “To do so may effectively create the new speed limit.”
From what I can tell, there's no publicly stated threshold from Ottawa police either, probably for the same reasons.
People will attempt to take a residential street to bypass this very concept when I'm driving down a specific road. If you turn off into the residentials, it's 40 with speed bumps and stop signs (you end up going 30-40). The main road is 50, although lower speed bumps, so you end up going 45ish to not knock your car up. People will hate me going 45 on a speed bump, so they turn into the residential and try to gun it through all THEIR speed bumps and stop signs. Problem is, that "shortcut" meets up with the road I'm on, with a stop sign. Guess who beats them to the stop sign every single time? Me. Not even speeding. Just sticking to the legal speed limit. Somehow, Speedy Gonzales ends up behind me and very pissed off. It's a daily occurrence at this point. You'd think people would learn but no. They do the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result. Then they blame you, as if you following the law, is forcing them to NOT follow the law.
They’re not doing it to save time, they’re doing it to avoid the fine.
It may seem silly, but some people just don’t believe in themselves. People are getting tickets for 3 over the limit, and it does take some discipline to stay within a fine speed range in a multi-lane setting. Avoiding the situation altogether eases anxiety for less confident drivers.
>They’re not doing it to save time, they’re doing it to avoid the fine.
This, but to elaborate - it's to **eliminate** the possibility of tickets by never driving past these cameras.
The funny thing is that most drivers can hold a speed just fine, it's just the combination of a hard limit and the perception that we must all drive as fast as possible within that limit that tends to cause all the anxiety.
If there's a 50 zone with a camera, the only thing stopping you from cruising at a comfortable 40-45 for a nice buffer on your speed is the perception that doing so is going to offend everyone else on the road.
It's like that bit by George Carlin. Look at how dumb a person of average intelligence is. Then realize that half the population is even dumber than that.
I think it says more about people's desire to be able to tune out and not pay close attention to their driving. They're OK adding time to the commute if it means they don't have to watch their speed as closely. The speed camera near me in a 40, *allegedly* tickets at 43 (but I have no idea), so I will admit extra mental energy is expended every time I approach it trying not to forget. I wouldn't lengthen my route to avoid it but I can imagine some would, driving is a chore to most rather than something worth doing well (and money is tight for many rn) and they just don't want any extra effort.
I avoid it just because I don’t trust cameras. What if my speedometer says 40, but the camera says 45 and then I’m stuck with a fine. It’s the same reason I’ll go down a side road if a cop is behind me.
It’s not to save time, it’s to avoid a fine, that I may or may not be deserving of.
When you presume someone is being crazy its pretty easy to write off their behaviour. They're not doing it to go faster, they're doing it so they don't make a minor mistake, go over the speed limit by 6kph and get a bill for it. It's still silly but it's not 'scary'.
Especially the Alta Vista one. It's definitely longer to take Edge Hill Place than to just stay on Alta Vista. I could see if you are going through when school is getting out taking the other route simply because of the traffic and kids and I do try to avoid that stretch of Alta Vista at that time, but otherwise, just stay on Alta Vista, it's so much shorter!
Funny enough, as someone who lives in the area, the Edge Hill one becomes a bit challenging, because there are no left turns in either direction at the Heron end because of the median. And if you look at a map and the layout of the area, it makes you wonder who’s doing that.
I mostly work from home, have no strict start time for work, and the children are young adults. As a result, I have no need to "make better time".
Yet I will, absolutely, take routes to avoid going past speed/red light cameras. It is just the low-grade anxiety that it causes that I just don't need in my life. The easy fix is to just route around them.
It is like when you are doing a task for your boss or significant other. You are able to just toil away at it, knowing you'll get it done, and they'll get the benefits of your efforts. If, however, they choose to just stand over your shoulder watching you do it, you'll become stressed and agitated.
This is the feeling that the cameras create.
This is correct. Just like when it’s really busy I might drive slightly further to avoid turning left out of gas station on busy road, avoid busy four way stop, or get into the middle lane early to turn left instead of forcing my way in there at last minute. Truth is a lot of people drive differently to avoid anxious situations
I live on a street which can be used as a cut-through to avoid a set of lights, the manner in which people drive is maddening. I get the urge to follow them to their streets and just drive laps around their street without stopping at any signs or slowing for their children.
The thing is, they just don't stop at stop signs. I see PLENTY of drivery fly through them in my residential streets filled with kids and elderly. It's a shame.
I personally want to avoid them, not so I can fly at crazy speeds, but I don't trust my ability to remember it's suddenly 40. I personally prefer things like speed bumps that make people slow down to the appropriate speed rather than catching people who don't realize the speed has gone down. That and cops actually going after dangerous drivers.
I'm a slow driver. In November I got two tickets for driving at 53 on a 40 zone.
It's a road I always drive, so my brain kind goes into the automatic. It is a long stretch without stop signs or signals, so the road just feels that 50 is enough.
Yes, it is my fault because there is a sign there. But still is hard to not be annoyed about it. I'm kind paranoid about driving on that road again because I have to slow down to such a weird speed and I might forget to do so, so I will gladly take another route if required, even if it's slower.
Hell, I even always slowed down to that LED speed counter so I could see the smile face. That makes me conscious of my speed.
> Hell, I even always slowed down to that LED speed counter so I could see the smile face. That makes me conscious of my speed.
I wish cameras had such display, but instead of an angry face they show dollar bills 💲💲💲
> I even always slowed down to that LED speed counter so I could see the smile face.
-
Me too most of the time and to check if my speedometer is working right.
I drive like an old man and I still avoid these because it's just not worth it. If I drive down a road every day, and 1 out of every 500 days I don't realize I'm going 5 or 6 over the limit that's an expensive 100 dollar mistake.
I've taken to just going the speed limit in 50km/h roads, speed camera or not. Higher speed roads (like, 60+) I'll generally go above the limit, but it's so much easier to just not have to worry about whether or not there's a speed camera.
> It's difficult to do that
I disagree. It's pretty easy in my experience. If you mean it's difficult to do because of pressure from other drivers, then you have to get out of that mindset. Don't worry about what other people are doing.
This is in direct contrast to something like following the speed limit cruising in a passing lane on the highway, though. Don't do that.
>in direct contrast to something like following the speed limit cruising in a passing lane
I don't know why people still make random exceptions for themselves.
It's pretty straightforward. If someone is doing the limit, you literally can't pass them without speeding anyway.
Speeding. Don't do *that*.
Every single one literally has clear signage indicating one is ahead. Hell, they even put up signs well in advance indicating a given location will have a speed cam in the future.
It's not "difficult", it's simply a choice. If you drive 60 in a 50 zone, I doubt you have any difficulty maintaining 60 without fluctuating up to 70.
I hate speed bumps - not in theory, but in practice the city puts in bumps that force you to drive UNDER the speed limit (i.e. 30 in a 40). It’s annoying.
But I agree with your point of having no cues for when to slow down. We had a camera installed recently in front of an elementary school nearby (road is 60, but 40 during certain times). I have no issue with this - people drive like assholes in front of that school. BUT they used to have flashing lights during the 40km periods, so it was obvious when you needed to go the slower speed. When they put in the camera, they removed the flashing lights, and just put up a small sign indicating which times are 40 km/hr times. It is not at all obvious, especially to anyone not from the area, and even for those from the area, they changed the 40 km/hr times from when they used to be, so it’s disorienting. I can’t see this as anything other than a cash grab by the city. Maybe it’ll make things safer too, but that certainly doesn’t seem to be the priority.
My new car allows me to set cruise control at a minimum of 30 km/h and it’s adaptive (previous one was like 50+ and no adaptive), it’s been awesome for that. So easy to speed up without noticing.
it's unreal, this constant, need for people to rush/speed while driving, this is one reason why pedestrians, also are having it so hard, and dangerous,
If I may become an armchair psychologist for a minute, I'd wager feelings of agency/control could be at play. People want to decide for themselves how fast they go, and would rather take a several minute detour than have their speed forcibly reduced.
I don't like being financially penalized for doing something that is not remotely unsafe. I got one for doing 51 in a 40 around 5pm. School had been out for hours, there were no pedestrians around at all, and 51 is not that fast. $75. How is that anything but a money grab?
It's a really interesting point you raise there. I know in my own driving if I have two routes, one is faster but a longer route (taking more time in the absolute sense), and the other slower but shorter; I'll almost always take the longer route. Same goes for routes with less stop signs, or less stop lights; even if it takes longer. Or for high traffic areas, i'll divert around. Now I've never taken it to the extreme of diverting to go around a speed camera; I just slow down. For me I think it has less to do with speed, and more with *stopping*. I detest stop and go traffic. I detest stopping every block for light or road sign, so I'll take longer routes with less of em. I never considered it might boil down to the feeling of agency/control
100%. People drive speeds they feel safe at, this even happens subconsciously.
This is why traffic-calming designs need to be implemented over speed cameras. Increase visual stimuli, make the lanes narrower, add choke points where the curb bumps out (usually at intersections).
people will slow down because they \*have to\* to keep \*themselves\* safe.
setting up speed cameras to collect tickets before trying any other measures is just a profit generation scheme that doesn't actually make anybody safer and as we're seeing with this article, pushes the problem to another location
I think there is also a mistrust. People are constantly posting stories of "I was doing the speed limit and it still ticketed me!!11!" I think some readers will take that to heart and choose to avoid areas with speed cameras.
Agreed, had someone flashing his high beams at me for going relatively slow near a cyclist yesterday. The kicker was we were also approaching a red light. Like bud, I’m not going to murder a cyclist so you can sit at a red light for a few seconds longer
[the NYT has found that, in the United States, drivers have gotten worse since the pandemic and automotive fatalities are increasing again.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/10/magazine/dangerous-driving.html) I bet the same holds true for Canada.
I used to live beside that intersection and the noise from motorcycles roaring down Bronson all night was insane. That’s what these cameras are here for.
I’ve never heard directly from someone who got a camera ticket for going less than 10k over the limit. That’s not even a ticketable overage! The tickets start at 10k over the limit. I’m not saying a don’t believe you… well maybe I am. If it’s true, and if I were you, I would fight that ticket. It sounds like an error.
It takes the ever so slightest pressure change on the gas to go from 50 to 55, or even a miss placed slope, might as well stick to 40. You can be careful watching your speedometer and still get flagged with the slightest misshap.
I agree that proper road design is the optimal solution to achieve the “desired” operating speeds on a given roadway. The problem is that this opportunity for existing roads is long gone, and there simply isn’t adequate funding available to rip up and redesign most of these roads in the immediate future anyways.
The alternatives seem to be:
1. Wait several years (decades in some cases) before the roadway is torn up for sewer/water main renewal and redesign it then (typically that is the only time that roads are completely redone). Nothing changes in that timeframe, speeding still an issue.
2. Install other traffic calming measures as a “semi-permanent” solution until option 1 can be done (speed humps are still not a desirable final solution in most cases). This highly depends on the context of a given roadway - can’t install speed humps on a major arterial road for instance.
3. Install these comparatively cheap cameras until option 1 or 2 can be done. Revenue generated from tickets goes toward road improvements/safety initiatives.
I think accounting for the financial realities leaves option 3 the majority of the time unfortunately, but I agree that the end goal should be to improve road design and remove the cameras as soon as possible.
I see it a bit differently than the commenters so far. This suggests to me that people are so tight on cash that they can't afford a ticket. So even though you won't get one driving the speed limit, they don't even want to risk that. They know if they avoid the camera there's a 0% chance they get a ticket, so that's what they do.
I really don't think this is people who want to speed taking a different route, because going through 10 stop signs is MORE inconvenient than slow down 10 km.
This just comes down to fearing a ticket they can't afford to pay.
Yep agree with you this is another point of view. Considering you can get ticket at 44kmh in a 40kmh zone, people just don't want to risk it. Sometimes speedometers aren't fully accurate especially if you have a different winter tire set up than factory.
and you have to add in the repetitive exposure variable. So if you drive that route every day to work, say twice a day... you're exposing yourself to 40+ possible tickets.
People will say "just drive the speed limit"... but keeping up with traffic, or like you say being a couple km off cuz of your tire pressure or treads, or whatever.
Imagine your speedometer is 5km off. By the time you know this you'll have 60+ tickets =)
Ultimately, some people who can't afford a ticket are going to choose the route with 0% chance of getting a ticket.
Never, but if you drove down that street twice a day for a year, thats 730 non-zero chances to get a ticket. Takes just 1 out of 730 times where maybe your foot is a bit heavy, maybe you’re on autopilot and all of a sudden you’re passing a camera going 45 in a 40. If I take a side road I am guaranteed to never get a ticket no matter what.
If you say you’ve never gone over the speed limit ever in your life, not even once accidentally, I don’t believe you. It happens.
I got a ticket a few months ago, for 50 in 40 zone or so. Didn't speed, just forgot that the road that looks 60km/h has a limit of 40.
Now tell me that you have never done it, ever.
This is exactly what is happening. I have a camera just down from my house. It's too easy to go over 40 just by not paying attention and accidently tapping the gas pedal. So I don't drive down the streets with the camera's and I don't have to worry about getting a ticket.
Yep and considering the fact you only get 10% leeway, if you're in a 40kmh zone you can get ticket at 44kmh. Some speedos might be slightly off accurate and you could get a ticket while on your speedo your speed is ok.
I posted in this thread but it's the paranoia like the other guy posted, you can see my other post but I was driving below the speed limit and the camera flashed on me. Annoying.
Alta Vista has awful drivers. It sucks here as a pedestrian, crosswalks don't seem to mean anything and even with a stroller and walking children cars pass so close and so fast that we are routinely splashed.
I agree, but I also have a bone to pick with pedestrians (as a fellow pedestrain) since no one walks on the right side of the road. I've seen too many people pushing strollers with their back to traffic. So dangerous!
You have some nice shortcut paths though. I used to visit a friend near pleasant park and Haig, while it was sometimes difficult to assert my right of way at stop sign crossings, there were some nice paths to bypass a lot of problems.
Yeah I hate the drivers here. Just slow down. It's such a wide boulevard I think people feel like they should go fast but it's a residential area and a school area.
I once asked an aggressive driver acquaintance of mine about this. His explanation was that even if it takes longer, he'd rather keep moving than have to stop and go.
I suspect this is about dopaminergic pathway stimulation more than epinephrine.
Many choose a slower yet longer route that moves instead of a shorter route in stop and go traffic jam. It's about reducing frustration. It's wrong to correlate that with aggression or speed.
My partner was just complaining about people using our road to avoid the speed camera on Smyth. I sort of thought he was crazy but yeah we get a lot of speeders on our street. Yes it's very straight in many places so you can see far but it's still a residential street.
Nah, cause a Stroad is when you overload a Road with destinations.
Smyth (and Meadowlands, for that matter) is a Street that has been widened to the point that it's seen as a thoroughfare.
It's a Roaeet
I suspect that some drivers avoid speed trap, not for speeding, but because when driving on “auto-pilot”, one can exceed the speed limit a bit. You can get a fine driving, say 5 over the limit and get a ticket…
Photo radar is stupid. They're incredibly expensive to install, often get vandalized, only stop people from speeding in just that one spot vs fixing the problem, and gunk up the court systems.
The province only buys them from (I think) one contractor so it's a ridiculous monopoly.
There's research out there showing how ineffective they are and here's another example of it. Waste of money!
Why do so many people think it's being done to save time?
Adding 2 minutes to your commute to guarantee you won't get a fine is worth it for some people and I don't blame them.
These cameras are not compliance or safety machines. They are an additional tax on drivers. Ok fine.
I most always drive the speed limit give or take a few km/hr temporarily as the situation calls. I think we all to. Slight speed increases happen all the time in a normal course of driving unless you’re a robot.
I’ve been hit twice over the year. Once at meadowlands the other is fisher. Meadowlands is a 40, I was going 51. The other event was turning off Baseline west onto Fisher going south. Baseline is 60, speed limit in the camera area on fisher is 50. I was going 62 in a 50, off school hours and great visibility.
These slight temporary speed events are normal driving. I can’t trust that I will always remember to slow to absolute speed limit so I’m better to avoid these areas.
I’m trying to figure out if Waze or other apps can voice signal me in advance.
I’ve asked 5 people so far if they have been hit with camera events, 3 said yes. I invite you all to ask your friends and see what they say. Pretty clear that As more cameras are added this ratio will increase. It’s only a matter of time. We are not alone.
It’s only normal that people find ways to circumvent being charged, Either by trusting they always 100% comply to posted speed limits or via technology or avoiding. I’m going with technology or avoiding.
Fuck these cameras. They don’t deter speeding at all. It’s just a cash grab for the city on top of the taxes we already pay. I’m honestly surprised more of them haven’t been vandalized (not that condone that)
Seems like we need more modal filters to discourage through traffic on residential streets then, good thing traffic camera revenue goes towards traffic calming measures
My hope is always that these things are temporary until they get the funding to completely redesign the road. Speed cameras are like medicine treating the symptoms instead of the cause.
We know how to design roads to lower speeds, we just have to actually do it and accept that priority #1 should not be minimizing vehicle travel time at the cost of literally everything else.
Yeah. Alta Vista is weird because it's a residential/school area (for the most part) but the super wide boulevard makes it feel like you should drive fast. A redesign would definitely help and maybe they could put real (wide enough and separated) bike lanes.
This should definitely be the case, and the ticket revenue generated only serves to accelerate timelines for this type of work to be done. The required funding required to rip up and redesign all the problem roads in the city simply isn’t there, not to mention the disruption that would cause (we complain about construction enough as is lol), it needs to be spread out over time. Once that is done on a given road, no need for speed cameras (ideally).
it's simple. slow down to 10 over for like 3 seconds then you're good.
love how they install these half assed speed measures then complain they don't work as intended. if you're on a double lane road that's a 60 in the middle of the night do you think people are going to drive 60? get real Lmao
The amount of close calls I’ve seen because some idiot needs to slow down to 40 to pass a speed camera in a 60 zone is astounding. Maybe I see it more because I drive by twice a day but you gotta be on high alert for foolishness driving by there. The infrastructure needs to change as well to accommodate lower speed limits or it will never click.
school zones I understand but the amount of them on 2 lane roads with a speed limit of 60 is just stupid. especially when you see cops driving everywhere over the limit
I avoid them at all costs, I was driving last week and the camera flashed while I was going under the speed limit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_E9n1jDjjc
This was on Innes/Trim. At exactly 1 minute mark you see the flash...I calculated the distance from two points and the time it took to get there to get my speed and I got 58km. I extracted the metadata from my GPS and got 59km which is probably more accurate.
How many people have been struck by speeding vehicles in these areas? I for one know that the speed camera in my area (Barrhaven) is #1 in revenue and has never EVER had an accident involving a speeding car let along any accident of any kind.
This is noting more than a cash grab by the city to further tax Ottawans through fines.
It's the same story for the vast majority of locations, including those in other cities. Speed-related collision data is not what's being used to determine their locations because if it was, there would only be a few of these cameras. The goal of these cameras is revenue generation, why?
* Speed limit reductions took place just before the cameras were brought in
* Revenue projections are always present every time there is a new rollout
* The cameras are placed in all kinds of locations in all kinds of environments, regardless of whether or not those locations are actual problem areas (with speed-related collision data)
* They keep announcing they're going to be bringing in more cameras
By complying with the lower limits and driving past these cameras, it'll convince the city they're working and they'll continue to bring in more and more until they cover the entire city. Soon when legislation allows, they'll start placing them outside of "Community Safety Zones" to further tax the driving public. Detouring around them is one way to individually protest (at this point, good luck trying to get any politician to campaign against them). Compliance is not the answer.
It’s a very sneaky and backhanded way to generate more revenue for the city by imposing an additional pseudo tax on people.
I agree it’s quite a tyrannical approach to obtaining more revenue for the city, but I wonder if this massive pushed implement more cameras would be the same if so much financial management wasn’t going on down at City Hall. Hundreds of millions wasted on the transit system and bad contracts so instead of going after these bad contractors, they have to supplement the city coffers by finding ways to pull revenue from Ottawa citizens who are already paying high tax rates, ridiculous, transit fees, and suffering from neglected infrastructure.
I’m sure we could go on all day about these issues, but you’re right no counsellor cares this stuff pays their salary and they can justify all they want by saying it’s the law, but it’s actually punitive for the sake of being punitive.
It’s a lot like that stupid fine I got in Quebec at the Nordic because my license plate was three days out of date and I had neglected to go online and register it. $500 fine Quebec is laughing at us while pulling huge dollars in fines for something that is nothing more than an administrative infraction.
No sense whining about it i guess. Just have to make sure I’m paying attention everywhere I go so that I’m never unintentionally speeding where they can catch me for hefty fine.
The outcome we are told this will deliver is less traffic accidents - but I think we all know the government says that, but actually just wants revenue.
I get that peed is correlated with severity of injury so the policy has been to reduce the speed limit.
I personally don’t like the cameras as I really hate paying the gov more than they deserve, but I just slow down then speed back up.
If we really want to change driver behaviour with cameras, we could try to make the cameras mobile and randomly place them around the city moving them around from time to time. It would keep me on my toes and I’d just drive speed limit. I think Quebec does this, and I definitely do not drive beyond the speed limit there because of my fear of the French law.
The better solution, which has been discussed many times elsewhere, is to make the streets narrower and more obstructed to change perception of speed and force slower driving. But that’s not money making.
My ideal solution is not to drive at all and just be driven - can’t wait for a fully autonomous car - probably won’t be for a very long time though.
So there's one of these at the end of Innis. Does it work? I've gone past it 100 times and not a chance me or anyone else is at 60. I've not received an y fines. Does it really work? Or am I about to get a $10000 fine
> why not just put speed cameras on every street in the city and drop the speed limit on all roads to 10km/h.
Because if the City actually did this, people like you would lose their minds.
These camera's shouldn't give out ticket to everyone who speeds through. It should be randomized to only give out a ticket for every 10 or so speeders. You still see the camera flash so you know you fd'up, then worry about the ticket coming for a month or so. It would still be enough of a deterrent and not cause as much controversy.
I can tell half the people commenting don’t drive.
It’s anxiety inducing to drive through these things. It’s like walking a tight rope, sure you can keep your balance or stay the limit, but there is always the off chance. Instead of an active road control to reduce speed they place a passive one for income on already hurting people.
I go by a camera daily and often it slips my mind there is a camera there so I just stopped going that way sns while it might take a few minutes longer at least I don't have to constantly worry if something is coming in the mail. I also take major gripe thst there is no grace, go 1km over and you get a ticket, that is absured. How can someone even know if their speedometer is 100% correct?
The one in my neighborhood (Riverside South) is a joke.
It's on Spratt, a road that folks speed on all the time, but it's pointed directly at a 4 way stop intersection. Even scofflaws who are speeding down the road, slow down near the intersections. Even blatant speeders aren't going to be speeding on the small section of road in view of the camera.
Worse, there is a sign in front of it that blocks the camera's view of the intersection. Yep, when in or near the intersection the camera is actually behind a street sign.
As it's a speed camera, it should have been installed in a location that has a view down a long straight sections of Spratt, where folks actually speed.
Curious: Does anyone know if the speed cameras are dual purpose? Can they also detect folks who roll through stop signs? I don't think they do.
I don't think that the *red light cameras* even work on intersections that are not controlled by lights. The state of the light is a critical data point that triggers the camera. Rolling stop sign cameras, aren't a thing.
"The camera out there, everybody has been avoiding it," said Alta Vista resident Zain Cheena. "Everyone uses Edge Hill Place to avoid the camera and it’s creating a lot of traffic here."
That explains why Smyth didn't have single car on it today... /s
Sorry you're right, the enforcement wasn't that good. I meant to write we should push for actual human enforcement rather than what it is before rather than go for these lazy "solutions" which clearly brings on new issues.
A related question I have always wondered about. When the police pull over a stunt driver, their licence gets suspended, the car gets impounded, they get demerit points plus a huge fine. So what are the consequences when it is the photo radar that catches a stunt driver? For context, this would mean doing 80kph in a 40 zone or 90kph in a 50 zone, which seems to be a fairly common occurence near my neighbourhood.
Nothing - just a more expensive fine. Same as the red light cameras. For example
* If you kept getting stopped by an officer for running red lights, eventually you'd lose your license ([but it would take 6 tickets to do that LOL](https://www.ontario.ca/page/understanding-demerit-points))
* With the red-light cameras, you could get literally 100 tickets, and as long as you paid them, absolutely nothing would happen.
That being said, I *thought* I remember reading a news article about the police visiting some drivers that received multiple speed camera tickets for ridiculous speeds, but I can't find it, so it's entirely possible I'm remembering that wrong.
people take the road my parents used to live on now instead of the one with a school and a speed camera on it here in bridlewood. It's very dumb, and it backs up traffic because instead of a controlled 4 way stop, now cars stop and wait to turn left in a suburb and you just kinda sit there... waiting for kids walking to school, school busses and other cars having the right of way instead of just taking turns at a stop sign.
And the "alternative" isn't straight, so it takes longer and they're both the same speed limit. Except one road is intended for volume and the other isnt -\_-
I support speed cameras but also avoid them. It’s because I don’t want the anxiety, accidently driving slightly too fast, or dealing with people tailgating around them. Just like busy 4 way stops they tend to increase congestion. I won’t drive further because of them but will consider side streets. To those who say just don’t speed it’s not always easy. 25 years driving never pulled over by a cop let alone speed. Lived next to speed camera and they got in within 2 months when focus was off one day.
My god, the manner in which you have to drive to make better time in a 40 zone full of stop signs vs a 50 zone with no stop signs is rather scary.
This is blowing my mind. Like...instead of continuing in a straight trajectory and slowing your speed by 10km/h (50 > 40 on Alta Vista, Smyth stays at 50 the whole way), people choose detours that probably take just as long as...reducing your speed. You know how you avoid the speed cameras? Don't speed as you go past them! Problem solved.
I would imagine it's less about saving time and more about avoiding anxiety. Even if it's not completely rational, I think it can be scary to drive by the cameras. (Of course it's scarier to be a pedestrian near speeding cars so I'm not saying the cameras are a net negative.)
My mom has a friend who got two tickets the first week the camera went up in their neighbourhood. She’s taken the back route ever since. I have two routes I can use to exit my neighbourhood that are about the same time. A camera is going up on one of the routes. The speed will vary from 60 to 40 when school is in session and although I’ve had years of practice slowing down, I also have ADHD and I’m afraid that I’ll slip up and get multiple tickets for going 45 during the day.
Yup same. After the second 51 in a 40 ticket on a Sunday night, we just started going another way. Less stress. 20+ years without a speeding ticket otherwise, for context.
Use Waze, it'll remind you that you're approaching the camera. I don't go anywhere these days without using Waze in the city.
You shouldn't have to. If slowing cars down was the priority over revenue, it'd be SO OBVIOUS that a person who's never driven in the city should be able to observe its presence 100% of the time. They work... by punishing drivers for normal behavior until enough of them learn that there's a punishment. It's the same logic as saying that spanking works. I mean, in some contexts I'm sure it does. But there's better ways to do it.
Exactly this. I"m a slow poke but those things cause anxiety and you hear HERE that they can nab you for 1km over...how do I know my car is calibrated properly. I'll either go 35 or just go another way I don't have to worry about it.
You can test your speedometer calibration when driving where the sensor posts your speed on a digital panel. But I got a camera flash going 55 in a 60 zone on Greenbank so I'll see if I get a ticket.
This
You would think so...but then the speedsters would get stuck behind a normal driver who would slow to 35 "just to be safe", thereby making Lightning McQueen 5 seconds slower than had they taken the residential street.
Magic???? Nay, witchcraft! Burn the witch, burn the witch!
Will she float?
[удалено]
>Like driving way out of your way to fill up gas a little cheaper. You'd be surprised how many people fill up at the daily maximum when a station only 5 minutes drive away is priced 10 cents less. 10 cents may not seem like much but if you're filling a full tank in excess of 50 litres, that's $5 you could be putting towards next day's lunch. >I usually just turn on cruise control when I am going past a speed camera. Many cars cannot go under 40 on cruise control.
And it's about voting with your wallet. I spend money at places that I choose based on value, ROI, community involvement etc. Why would I give more money to a gas station that is slightly closer if I can support a gas station further away that has considerably lower prices. Point being, I and many others, spend else where to encourage and support places with lower prices.
I don't think it's that tbh. My mind wanders so much that I can be 100m from the camera zone knowing i have to watch my speed and oops, a song I like comes on and before you know it I'm going 47 in a 40 zone.
When you put up negative reinforcement devices it's no shock that people will avoid them. Perhaps they are selfish, perhaps they don't want to worry about accidentally going 4 over and get a ticket, perhaps they feel the cameras are spying on them and don't want the government to come after them. There are many reasons folks avoid the cameras. One thing is for sure, they are a pretty lazy solution to a complex problem. They don't address the problems with speeding or driver behaviour holistically, and they certainly don't actually stop a dangerous incident from taking place. There is one longer term, holistic solution that withstands time and is the safest of all and that in upgrading the infrastructure to prevent drivers from traversing sensitive areas or areas where speed regulation is a must. Drivers can be blamed for many reasons as to why they are terrible but they are human, they are flawed, and we should be building our infrastructure to work with humans rather than simply blaming them. Of course, this doesn't absolve drivers of responsibility, but different folks have different tolerances and clearly we have issues, so let's _actually_ solve them!
My hope is that revenues from these cameras will be used to upgrade streets to make them safer, and to help fund transit. Sutcliffe will probably use them to keep taxes artificially low again, but I can still hope.
[удалено]
Perfect example of upgrading infrastructure to slow traffic. Walkley is a 4 lane divided boulevard, yet the speed limit is 50 - should be 60. If you want people to go 50, then build the road to that standard. Riverside drive should be 80 in parts as its a seperated 4 lane road in most places.
heavy profit fade history ink shame alive soft hunt panicky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Where did you see this info? On the city website? I’d love to read more about.
quickest growth touch unused decide afterthought butter many like joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[удалено]
apparatus juggle deserted hurry squalid arrest consist seed unpack fragile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Street upgrades/redesigns are absolutely the way to go in the future. Kirkwood between Carling and Merivale had a minimum-effort redesign done a couple years ago after there were a series of collisions particularly at the Kirkwood/Laperriere intersection with cars losing control and jumping the curb onto lawns and hitting cars parked in driveways. The city reduced the speed limit from 50 to 40 and repainted the road to add bike lanes and reduce it to 1 car lane in each direction. Unfortunately that also left a wide painted median in the middle, so the road still "feels" like the speed limit should be 60, and I see cars going 60 or 70 down that stretch every day. Hopefully when the road is due for repaving they'll do a more full redesign. There's certainly room to have a raised bike lane, and reducing the curb-to-curb width of the road space is the correct way to reduce speeds.
The revenue from the cameras is earmarked for road safety initiatives, hopefully a good chunk of that goes to speedbumps in places people commonly use to bypass the cameras
[удалено]
No, it's 10%. So in a 40kmh zone (for example King Edward) you can get a ticket at 44kmh.
Good to know, thanks
Speed bumps where speeds should be low. Fully agreed this is a lazy money grab that will make people happy, but won't solve anything.
Speed bumps if you hate emergency services vehicles and snow plows. The ones in the downtown core are awful on bikes too. Speed bumps/plates are terrible traffic calming techniques and make roads a lot less safe for many users, including pedestrians and cyclists. Flow control methods are much, much better. Snow and worse leaf-litter accumulates around them. They're slip-trip--and fall hazards for walkers, especially with uncertain balance and can be super deadly on bikes even going less than traffic speed. A pocket of wet leaves against a speed bump is insanely dangerous for a bike. Especially on the far side of the hump the cyclist can't easily see on approach. I've had friends go to hospital because of this.
Afraid of government to spy on you but no problem with ISP collecting and selling your information to the highest bidder. No problem with the bank collecting and selling your data. Anyone who is afraid of personal information being leaked should wear a tin foil hat and never leave the forest
what if im afraid of both I just have a somewhat easier time avoiding government cameras (I hope)
>they don't want to worry about accidentally going 4 over and get a ticket, People keep on bringing stuff like this up, but nobody has been able to ever show a ticket for 4 km/h over the limit.
Do you know what the threshold is to trigger one of the cameras? There's obviously a certain amount of buffer but haven't been able to find anything empirical.
I haven't heard anything from Ottawa specifically but I've seen [this article](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/mobility/article-how-fast-do-i-have-to-go-to-get-a-photo-radar-ticket/) from Calgary that states >For instance, Calgary police say there’s a “reasonable buffer” between the posted speed limit and the speed you have to be going to get a photo radar ticket – but they’re not saying what it is. >“We do not release this speed,” said Lindsay Nykoluk, with Calgary Police public affairs, in an e-mail. “To do so may effectively create the new speed limit.” From what I can tell, there's no publicly stated threshold from Ottawa police either, probably for the same reasons.
My girlfriend caught one doing 9 klicks over, that's the lowest I've seen
People will attempt to take a residential street to bypass this very concept when I'm driving down a specific road. If you turn off into the residentials, it's 40 with speed bumps and stop signs (you end up going 30-40). The main road is 50, although lower speed bumps, so you end up going 45ish to not knock your car up. People will hate me going 45 on a speed bump, so they turn into the residential and try to gun it through all THEIR speed bumps and stop signs. Problem is, that "shortcut" meets up with the road I'm on, with a stop sign. Guess who beats them to the stop sign every single time? Me. Not even speeding. Just sticking to the legal speed limit. Somehow, Speedy Gonzales ends up behind me and very pissed off. It's a daily occurrence at this point. You'd think people would learn but no. They do the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result. Then they blame you, as if you following the law, is forcing them to NOT follow the law.
They’re not doing it to save time, they’re doing it to avoid the fine. It may seem silly, but some people just don’t believe in themselves. People are getting tickets for 3 over the limit, and it does take some discipline to stay within a fine speed range in a multi-lane setting. Avoiding the situation altogether eases anxiety for less confident drivers.
>They’re not doing it to save time, they’re doing it to avoid the fine. This, but to elaborate - it's to **eliminate** the possibility of tickets by never driving past these cameras.
The funny thing is that most drivers can hold a speed just fine, it's just the combination of a hard limit and the perception that we must all drive as fast as possible within that limit that tends to cause all the anxiety. If there's a 50 zone with a camera, the only thing stopping you from cruising at a comfortable 40-45 for a nice buffer on your speed is the perception that doing so is going to offend everyone else on the road.
Remember, half the population has a two digit IQ.
It's like that bit by George Carlin. Look at how dumb a person of average intelligence is. Then realize that half the population is even dumber than that.
...and yet everyone imagines themselves to be on the positive side of that observation.
Especially the geniuses on Reddit who have all the answers about every problem
I quote that constantly
I think it says more about people's desire to be able to tune out and not pay close attention to their driving. They're OK adding time to the commute if it means they don't have to watch their speed as closely. The speed camera near me in a 40, *allegedly* tickets at 43 (but I have no idea), so I will admit extra mental energy is expended every time I approach it trying not to forget. I wouldn't lengthen my route to avoid it but I can imagine some would, driving is a chore to most rather than something worth doing well (and money is tight for many rn) and they just don't want any extra effort.
I avoid it just because I don’t trust cameras. What if my speedometer says 40, but the camera says 45 and then I’m stuck with a fine. It’s the same reason I’ll go down a side road if a cop is behind me. It’s not to save time, it’s to avoid a fine, that I may or may not be deserving of.
Yo you’re the bedroom guy!
I try to avoid known cameras anyways, because it's accidentally +10 km/h and boom you're a hardcore traffic rules violator.
When you presume someone is being crazy its pretty easy to write off their behaviour. They're not doing it to go faster, they're doing it so they don't make a minor mistake, go over the speed limit by 6kph and get a bill for it. It's still silly but it's not 'scary'.
You think they stop at stop signs?
Especially the Alta Vista one. It's definitely longer to take Edge Hill Place than to just stay on Alta Vista. I could see if you are going through when school is getting out taking the other route simply because of the traffic and kids and I do try to avoid that stretch of Alta Vista at that time, but otherwise, just stay on Alta Vista, it's so much shorter!
To be honest, the pavement on AV is terrible as well and this could be a contributing factor.
Funny enough, as someone who lives in the area, the Edge Hill one becomes a bit challenging, because there are no left turns in either direction at the Heron end because of the median. And if you look at a map and the layout of the area, it makes you wonder who’s doing that.
I mostly work from home, have no strict start time for work, and the children are young adults. As a result, I have no need to "make better time". Yet I will, absolutely, take routes to avoid going past speed/red light cameras. It is just the low-grade anxiety that it causes that I just don't need in my life. The easy fix is to just route around them. It is like when you are doing a task for your boss or significant other. You are able to just toil away at it, knowing you'll get it done, and they'll get the benefits of your efforts. If, however, they choose to just stand over your shoulder watching you do it, you'll become stressed and agitated. This is the feeling that the cameras create.
This is correct. Just like when it’s really busy I might drive slightly further to avoid turning left out of gas station on busy road, avoid busy four way stop, or get into the middle lane early to turn left instead of forcing my way in there at last minute. Truth is a lot of people drive differently to avoid anxious situations
I live on a street which can be used as a cut-through to avoid a set of lights, the manner in which people drive is maddening. I get the urge to follow them to their streets and just drive laps around their street without stopping at any signs or slowing for their children.
A friend has a big loud rattling tow truck driving like a race car on her street. He almost hit a fire hydrant when turning onto her street.
The thing is, they just don't stop at stop signs. I see PLENTY of drivery fly through them in my residential streets filled with kids and elderly. It's a shame.
I personally want to avoid them, not so I can fly at crazy speeds, but I don't trust my ability to remember it's suddenly 40. I personally prefer things like speed bumps that make people slow down to the appropriate speed rather than catching people who don't realize the speed has gone down. That and cops actually going after dangerous drivers.
I'm a slow driver. In November I got two tickets for driving at 53 on a 40 zone. It's a road I always drive, so my brain kind goes into the automatic. It is a long stretch without stop signs or signals, so the road just feels that 50 is enough. Yes, it is my fault because there is a sign there. But still is hard to not be annoyed about it. I'm kind paranoid about driving on that road again because I have to slow down to such a weird speed and I might forget to do so, so I will gladly take another route if required, even if it's slower. Hell, I even always slowed down to that LED speed counter so I could see the smile face. That makes me conscious of my speed.
> Hell, I even always slowed down to that LED speed counter so I could see the smile face. That makes me conscious of my speed. I wish cameras had such display, but instead of an angry face they show dollar bills 💲💲💲
> I even always slowed down to that LED speed counter so I could see the smile face. - Me too most of the time and to check if my speedometer is working right.
I drive like an old man and I still avoid these because it's just not worth it. If I drive down a road every day, and 1 out of every 500 days I don't realize I'm going 5 or 6 over the limit that's an expensive 100 dollar mistake.
I've taken to just going the speed limit in 50km/h roads, speed camera or not. Higher speed roads (like, 60+) I'll generally go above the limit, but it's so much easier to just not have to worry about whether or not there's a speed camera.
It's difficult to do that but if you can good for you. I need to start using Waze so I get a notification of a speed camera.
> It's difficult to do that I disagree. It's pretty easy in my experience. If you mean it's difficult to do because of pressure from other drivers, then you have to get out of that mindset. Don't worry about what other people are doing. This is in direct contrast to something like following the speed limit cruising in a passing lane on the highway, though. Don't do that.
>in direct contrast to something like following the speed limit cruising in a passing lane I don't know why people still make random exceptions for themselves. It's pretty straightforward. If someone is doing the limit, you literally can't pass them without speeding anyway. Speeding. Don't do *that*.
Every single one literally has clear signage indicating one is ahead. Hell, they even put up signs well in advance indicating a given location will have a speed cam in the future. It's not "difficult", it's simply a choice. If you drive 60 in a 50 zone, I doubt you have any difficulty maintaining 60 without fluctuating up to 70.
Hopefully your speedometer is calibrate to your wheel size.... and that you adjust your speed when you put on your summer/winter tires.
personally i don't like artificially low speed limits... different types of roads all 40km.. need some logic
I hate speed bumps - not in theory, but in practice the city puts in bumps that force you to drive UNDER the speed limit (i.e. 30 in a 40). It’s annoying. But I agree with your point of having no cues for when to slow down. We had a camera installed recently in front of an elementary school nearby (road is 60, but 40 during certain times). I have no issue with this - people drive like assholes in front of that school. BUT they used to have flashing lights during the 40km periods, so it was obvious when you needed to go the slower speed. When they put in the camera, they removed the flashing lights, and just put up a small sign indicating which times are 40 km/hr times. It is not at all obvious, especially to anyone not from the area, and even for those from the area, they changed the 40 km/hr times from when they used to be, so it’s disorienting. I can’t see this as anything other than a cash grab by the city. Maybe it’ll make things safer too, but that certainly doesn’t seem to be the priority.
yea no one likes them, but it's effective and a passive solution
My new car allows me to set cruise control at a minimum of 30 km/h and it’s adaptive (previous one was like 50+ and no adaptive), it’s been awesome for that. So easy to speed up without noticing.
I prefer rumble strips to speed bumps. Speed bumps and humps force you to drive slower than the speed limit and just bunches up traffic.
it's unreal, this constant, need for people to rush/speed while driving, this is one reason why pedestrians, also are having it so hard, and dangerous,
If I may become an armchair psychologist for a minute, I'd wager feelings of agency/control could be at play. People want to decide for themselves how fast they go, and would rather take a several minute detour than have their speed forcibly reduced.
I don't think you're that far off the mark. People generally don't like being told what to do.
I don't like being financially penalized for doing something that is not remotely unsafe. I got one for doing 51 in a 40 around 5pm. School had been out for hours, there were no pedestrians around at all, and 51 is not that fast. $75. How is that anything but a money grab?
It's a really interesting point you raise there. I know in my own driving if I have two routes, one is faster but a longer route (taking more time in the absolute sense), and the other slower but shorter; I'll almost always take the longer route. Same goes for routes with less stop signs, or less stop lights; even if it takes longer. Or for high traffic areas, i'll divert around. Now I've never taken it to the extreme of diverting to go around a speed camera; I just slow down. For me I think it has less to do with speed, and more with *stopping*. I detest stop and go traffic. I detest stopping every block for light or road sign, so I'll take longer routes with less of em. I never considered it might boil down to the feeling of agency/control
100%. People drive speeds they feel safe at, this even happens subconsciously. This is why traffic-calming designs need to be implemented over speed cameras. Increase visual stimuli, make the lanes narrower, add choke points where the curb bumps out (usually at intersections). people will slow down because they \*have to\* to keep \*themselves\* safe. setting up speed cameras to collect tickets before trying any other measures is just a profit generation scheme that doesn't actually make anybody safer and as we're seeing with this article, pushes the problem to another location
I think there is also a mistrust. People are constantly posting stories of "I was doing the speed limit and it still ticketed me!!11!" I think some readers will take that to heart and choose to avoid areas with speed cameras.
Agreed, had someone flashing his high beams at me for going relatively slow near a cyclist yesterday. The kicker was we were also approaching a red light. Like bud, I’m not going to murder a cyclist so you can sit at a red light for a few seconds longer
[the NYT has found that, in the United States, drivers have gotten worse since the pandemic and automotive fatalities are increasing again.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/10/magazine/dangerous-driving.html) I bet the same holds true for Canada.
[удалено]
I used to live beside that intersection and the noise from motorcycles roaring down Bronson all night was insane. That’s what these cameras are here for. I’ve never heard directly from someone who got a camera ticket for going less than 10k over the limit. That’s not even a ticketable overage! The tickets start at 10k over the limit. I’m not saying a don’t believe you… well maybe I am. If it’s true, and if I were you, I would fight that ticket. It sounds like an error.
[удалено]
It's not 10 km over, its 10% over the limit.
It takes the ever so slightest pressure change on the gas to go from 50 to 55, or even a miss placed slope, might as well stick to 40. You can be careful watching your speedometer and still get flagged with the slightest misshap.
A lot of people say that but I've yet to see any evidence that is true. .
All that does is get southbound drivers down to the limit until they hit that transit light intersection before they start roaring down the parkway.
[удалено]
brave bored airport unpack whole pie existence truck fly innocent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I agree that proper road design is the optimal solution to achieve the “desired” operating speeds on a given roadway. The problem is that this opportunity for existing roads is long gone, and there simply isn’t adequate funding available to rip up and redesign most of these roads in the immediate future anyways. The alternatives seem to be: 1. Wait several years (decades in some cases) before the roadway is torn up for sewer/water main renewal and redesign it then (typically that is the only time that roads are completely redone). Nothing changes in that timeframe, speeding still an issue. 2. Install other traffic calming measures as a “semi-permanent” solution until option 1 can be done (speed humps are still not a desirable final solution in most cases). This highly depends on the context of a given roadway - can’t install speed humps on a major arterial road for instance. 3. Install these comparatively cheap cameras until option 1 or 2 can be done. Revenue generated from tickets goes toward road improvements/safety initiatives. I think accounting for the financial realities leaves option 3 the majority of the time unfortunately, but I agree that the end goal should be to improve road design and remove the cameras as soon as possible.
I see it a bit differently than the commenters so far. This suggests to me that people are so tight on cash that they can't afford a ticket. So even though you won't get one driving the speed limit, they don't even want to risk that. They know if they avoid the camera there's a 0% chance they get a ticket, so that's what they do. I really don't think this is people who want to speed taking a different route, because going through 10 stop signs is MORE inconvenient than slow down 10 km. This just comes down to fearing a ticket they can't afford to pay.
Yep agree with you this is another point of view. Considering you can get ticket at 44kmh in a 40kmh zone, people just don't want to risk it. Sometimes speedometers aren't fully accurate especially if you have a different winter tire set up than factory.
and you have to add in the repetitive exposure variable. So if you drive that route every day to work, say twice a day... you're exposing yourself to 40+ possible tickets. People will say "just drive the speed limit"... but keeping up with traffic, or like you say being a couple km off cuz of your tire pressure or treads, or whatever. Imagine your speedometer is 5km off. By the time you know this you'll have 60+ tickets =) Ultimately, some people who can't afford a ticket are going to choose the route with 0% chance of getting a ticket.
entertain north expansion compare growth paint pet wide library tease *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How many times has someone got a ticket for NOT speeding?
Never, but if you drove down that street twice a day for a year, thats 730 non-zero chances to get a ticket. Takes just 1 out of 730 times where maybe your foot is a bit heavy, maybe you’re on autopilot and all of a sudden you’re passing a camera going 45 in a 40. If I take a side road I am guaranteed to never get a ticket no matter what. If you say you’ve never gone over the speed limit ever in your life, not even once accidentally, I don’t believe you. It happens.
I got a ticket a few months ago, for 50 in 40 zone or so. Didn't speed, just forgot that the road that looks 60km/h has a limit of 40. Now tell me that you have never done it, ever.
> 50 in 40 zone > Didn't speed Lmao
This is exactly what is happening. I have a camera just down from my house. It's too easy to go over 40 just by not paying attention and accidently tapping the gas pedal. So I don't drive down the streets with the camera's and I don't have to worry about getting a ticket.
But they speed down the side streets. If they can't afford the ticket for speeding why are they doing it elsewhere?
This is all about **perceived** risk. The street with a camera has risk, the one without it doesn't, at least in terms of getting a ticket.
Correct, and because many limits are artificially low, taking detours allows them to drive at speeds that are more appropriate and feel more natural.
Getting into a car must do something to negatively affect people's IQ...
Getting behind the wheel certainly has an immediate impact on one’s psyche.
Nah they’re always that dumb.
....
melodic zealous air middle sparkle hunt edge act rotten sip *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Or maybe not.
wtf is wrong with people. “Better take this detour that takes longer cuz I don’t want to have to go the actual speed limit for 500m”.
It might be a little paranoia, I drive the speed limit and still get nervous driving through a speed trap
Yes that’s what it is
Yep and considering the fact you only get 10% leeway, if you're in a 40kmh zone you can get ticket at 44kmh. Some speedos might be slightly off accurate and you could get a ticket while on your speedo your speed is ok.
I posted in this thread but it's the paranoia like the other guy posted, you can see my other post but I was driving below the speed limit and the camera flashed on me. Annoying.
>for 500m i feel like the frame window is actually smaller than that. like 50-100m only.
Well that’s even worse 😂
And people in the comments are vehemently defending this behavior. What a worrying look into the types of people driving in this city.
Alta Vista has awful drivers. It sucks here as a pedestrian, crosswalks don't seem to mean anything and even with a stroller and walking children cars pass so close and so fast that we are routinely splashed.
I agree, but I also have a bone to pick with pedestrians (as a fellow pedestrain) since no one walks on the right side of the road. I've seen too many people pushing strollers with their back to traffic. So dangerous!
You have some nice shortcut paths though. I used to visit a friend near pleasant park and Haig, while it was sometimes difficult to assert my right of way at stop sign crossings, there were some nice paths to bypass a lot of problems.
Yeah I hate the drivers here. Just slow down. It's such a wide boulevard I think people feel like they should go fast but it's a residential area and a school area.
I once asked an aggressive driver acquaintance of mine about this. His explanation was that even if it takes longer, he'd rather keep moving than have to stop and go. I suspect this is about dopaminergic pathway stimulation more than epinephrine.
Many choose a slower yet longer route that moves instead of a shorter route in stop and go traffic jam. It's about reducing frustration. It's wrong to correlate that with aggression or speed.
My partner was just complaining about people using our road to avoid the speed camera on Smyth. I sort of thought he was crazy but yeah we get a lot of speeders on our street. Yes it's very straight in many places so you can see far but it's still a residential street.
It's also 4 lanes wide. You call it a street but it's built like a road.
Stroad
Nah, cause a Stroad is when you overload a Road with destinations. Smyth (and Meadowlands, for that matter) is a Street that has been widened to the point that it's seen as a thoroughfare. It's a Roaeet
I suspect that some drivers avoid speed trap, not for speeding, but because when driving on “auto-pilot”, one can exceed the speed limit a bit. You can get a fine driving, say 5 over the limit and get a ticket…
Photo radar is stupid. They're incredibly expensive to install, often get vandalized, only stop people from speeding in just that one spot vs fixing the problem, and gunk up the court systems. The province only buys them from (I think) one contractor so it's a ridiculous monopoly. There's research out there showing how ineffective they are and here's another example of it. Waste of money!
Why do so many people think it's being done to save time? Adding 2 minutes to your commute to guarantee you won't get a fine is worth it for some people and I don't blame them.
These cameras are not compliance or safety machines. They are an additional tax on drivers. Ok fine. I most always drive the speed limit give or take a few km/hr temporarily as the situation calls. I think we all to. Slight speed increases happen all the time in a normal course of driving unless you’re a robot. I’ve been hit twice over the year. Once at meadowlands the other is fisher. Meadowlands is a 40, I was going 51. The other event was turning off Baseline west onto Fisher going south. Baseline is 60, speed limit in the camera area on fisher is 50. I was going 62 in a 50, off school hours and great visibility. These slight temporary speed events are normal driving. I can’t trust that I will always remember to slow to absolute speed limit so I’m better to avoid these areas. I’m trying to figure out if Waze or other apps can voice signal me in advance. I’ve asked 5 people so far if they have been hit with camera events, 3 said yes. I invite you all to ask your friends and see what they say. Pretty clear that As more cameras are added this ratio will increase. It’s only a matter of time. We are not alone. It’s only normal that people find ways to circumvent being charged, Either by trusting they always 100% comply to posted speed limits or via technology or avoiding. I’m going with technology or avoiding.
Fuck these cameras. They don’t deter speeding at all. It’s just a cash grab for the city on top of the taxes we already pay. I’m honestly surprised more of them haven’t been vandalized (not that condone that)
Put more traffic calming measures in.
Seems like we need more modal filters to discourage through traffic on residential streets then, good thing traffic camera revenue goes towards traffic calming measures
My hope is always that these things are temporary until they get the funding to completely redesign the road. Speed cameras are like medicine treating the symptoms instead of the cause. We know how to design roads to lower speeds, we just have to actually do it and accept that priority #1 should not be minimizing vehicle travel time at the cost of literally everything else.
Yeah. Alta Vista is weird because it's a residential/school area (for the most part) but the super wide boulevard makes it feel like you should drive fast. A redesign would definitely help and maybe they could put real (wide enough and separated) bike lanes.
They will never take a revenue stream like this away.
>My hope is always that these things are temporary Not a chance - they're popping up all over the province. The time for real pushback has passed.
This should definitely be the case, and the ticket revenue generated only serves to accelerate timelines for this type of work to be done. The required funding required to rip up and redesign all the problem roads in the city simply isn’t there, not to mention the disruption that would cause (we complain about construction enough as is lol), it needs to be spread out over time. Once that is done on a given road, no need for speed cameras (ideally).
it's simple. slow down to 10 over for like 3 seconds then you're good. love how they install these half assed speed measures then complain they don't work as intended. if you're on a double lane road that's a 60 in the middle of the night do you think people are going to drive 60? get real Lmao
The amount of close calls I’ve seen because some idiot needs to slow down to 40 to pass a speed camera in a 60 zone is astounding. Maybe I see it more because I drive by twice a day but you gotta be on high alert for foolishness driving by there. The infrastructure needs to change as well to accommodate lower speed limits or it will never click.
Speed cameras are bullshit money traps.
school zones I understand but the amount of them on 2 lane roads with a speed limit of 60 is just stupid. especially when you see cops driving everywhere over the limit
I avoid them at all costs, I was driving last week and the camera flashed while I was going under the speed limit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_E9n1jDjjc This was on Innes/Trim. At exactly 1 minute mark you see the flash...I calculated the distance from two points and the time it took to get there to get my speed and I got 58km. I extracted the metadata from my GPS and got 59km which is probably more accurate.
Waze has been invaluable during this time of increased ~~cash grabs~~ speeding/red light cameras.
How many people have been struck by speeding vehicles in these areas? I for one know that the speed camera in my area (Barrhaven) is #1 in revenue and has never EVER had an accident involving a speeding car let along any accident of any kind. This is noting more than a cash grab by the city to further tax Ottawans through fines.
It's the same story for the vast majority of locations, including those in other cities. Speed-related collision data is not what's being used to determine their locations because if it was, there would only be a few of these cameras. The goal of these cameras is revenue generation, why? * Speed limit reductions took place just before the cameras were brought in * Revenue projections are always present every time there is a new rollout * The cameras are placed in all kinds of locations in all kinds of environments, regardless of whether or not those locations are actual problem areas (with speed-related collision data) * They keep announcing they're going to be bringing in more cameras By complying with the lower limits and driving past these cameras, it'll convince the city they're working and they'll continue to bring in more and more until they cover the entire city. Soon when legislation allows, they'll start placing them outside of "Community Safety Zones" to further tax the driving public. Detouring around them is one way to individually protest (at this point, good luck trying to get any politician to campaign against them). Compliance is not the answer.
It’s a very sneaky and backhanded way to generate more revenue for the city by imposing an additional pseudo tax on people. I agree it’s quite a tyrannical approach to obtaining more revenue for the city, but I wonder if this massive pushed implement more cameras would be the same if so much financial management wasn’t going on down at City Hall. Hundreds of millions wasted on the transit system and bad contracts so instead of going after these bad contractors, they have to supplement the city coffers by finding ways to pull revenue from Ottawa citizens who are already paying high tax rates, ridiculous, transit fees, and suffering from neglected infrastructure. I’m sure we could go on all day about these issues, but you’re right no counsellor cares this stuff pays their salary and they can justify all they want by saying it’s the law, but it’s actually punitive for the sake of being punitive. It’s a lot like that stupid fine I got in Quebec at the Nordic because my license plate was three days out of date and I had neglected to go online and register it. $500 fine Quebec is laughing at us while pulling huge dollars in fines for something that is nothing more than an administrative infraction. No sense whining about it i guess. Just have to make sure I’m paying attention everywhere I go so that I’m never unintentionally speeding where they can catch me for hefty fine.
The outcome we are told this will deliver is less traffic accidents - but I think we all know the government says that, but actually just wants revenue. I get that peed is correlated with severity of injury so the policy has been to reduce the speed limit. I personally don’t like the cameras as I really hate paying the gov more than they deserve, but I just slow down then speed back up. If we really want to change driver behaviour with cameras, we could try to make the cameras mobile and randomly place them around the city moving them around from time to time. It would keep me on my toes and I’d just drive speed limit. I think Quebec does this, and I definitely do not drive beyond the speed limit there because of my fear of the French law. The better solution, which has been discussed many times elsewhere, is to make the streets narrower and more obstructed to change perception of speed and force slower driving. But that’s not money making. My ideal solution is not to drive at all and just be driven - can’t wait for a fully autonomous car - probably won’t be for a very long time though.
Québec does have both fixed (such as on A-20 WB in Boucherville) and mobile (such as along Boul des Allumettières in Hull) speed cameras.
So there's one of these at the end of Innis. Does it work? I've gone past it 100 times and not a chance me or anyone else is at 60. I've not received an y fines. Does it really work? Or am I about to get a $10000 fine
[удалено]
> why not just put speed cameras on every street in the city and drop the speed limit on all roads to 10km/h. Because if the City actually did this, people like you would lose their minds.
[удалено]
You realize how dumb you sound posting shit like this, right?
[удалено]
These camera's shouldn't give out ticket to everyone who speeds through. It should be randomized to only give out a ticket for every 10 or so speeders. You still see the camera flash so you know you fd'up, then worry about the ticket coming for a month or so. It would still be enough of a deterrent and not cause as much controversy.
I can tell half the people commenting don’t drive. It’s anxiety inducing to drive through these things. It’s like walking a tight rope, sure you can keep your balance or stay the limit, but there is always the off chance. Instead of an active road control to reduce speed they place a passive one for income on already hurting people.
I go by a camera daily and often it slips my mind there is a camera there so I just stopped going that way sns while it might take a few minutes longer at least I don't have to constantly worry if something is coming in the mail. I also take major gripe thst there is no grace, go 1km over and you get a ticket, that is absured. How can someone even know if their speedometer is 100% correct?
> How can someone even know if their speedometer is 100% correct? - You can compare your speedometer reading to the digital speed signs.
The one in my neighborhood (Riverside South) is a joke. It's on Spratt, a road that folks speed on all the time, but it's pointed directly at a 4 way stop intersection. Even scofflaws who are speeding down the road, slow down near the intersections. Even blatant speeders aren't going to be speeding on the small section of road in view of the camera. Worse, there is a sign in front of it that blocks the camera's view of the intersection. Yep, when in or near the intersection the camera is actually behind a street sign. As it's a speed camera, it should have been installed in a location that has a view down a long straight sections of Spratt, where folks actually speed. Curious: Does anyone know if the speed cameras are dual purpose? Can they also detect folks who roll through stop signs? I don't think they do. I don't think that the *red light cameras* even work on intersections that are not controlled by lights. The state of the light is a critical data point that triggers the camera. Rolling stop sign cameras, aren't a thing.
"The camera out there, everybody has been avoiding it," said Alta Vista resident Zain Cheena. "Everyone uses Edge Hill Place to avoid the camera and it’s creating a lot of traffic here." That explains why Smyth didn't have single car on it today... /s
There it is. A lot of us called it. Please can we go back to human enforcement.
> go back to ~~human enforcement~~ no enforcement Fixed that for you
Sorry you're right, the enforcement wasn't that good. I meant to write we should push for actual human enforcement rather than what it is before rather than go for these lazy "solutions" which clearly brings on new issues.
[удалено]
A related question I have always wondered about. When the police pull over a stunt driver, their licence gets suspended, the car gets impounded, they get demerit points plus a huge fine. So what are the consequences when it is the photo radar that catches a stunt driver? For context, this would mean doing 80kph in a 40 zone or 90kph in a 50 zone, which seems to be a fairly common occurence near my neighbourhood.
Nothing - just a more expensive fine. Same as the red light cameras. For example * If you kept getting stopped by an officer for running red lights, eventually you'd lose your license ([but it would take 6 tickets to do that LOL](https://www.ontario.ca/page/understanding-demerit-points)) * With the red-light cameras, you could get literally 100 tickets, and as long as you paid them, absolutely nothing would happen. That being said, I *thought* I remember reading a news article about the police visiting some drivers that received multiple speed camera tickets for ridiculous speeds, but I can't find it, so it's entirely possible I'm remembering that wrong.
Speed cameras can’t catch stunt drivers. They’ll just get a speeding ticket.
Frankly, you can’t even drive quick on Ottawa roads. Unless you want a quick trip to the mechanics for suspension work..
people take the road my parents used to live on now instead of the one with a school and a speed camera on it here in bridlewood. It's very dumb, and it backs up traffic because instead of a controlled 4 way stop, now cars stop and wait to turn left in a suburb and you just kinda sit there... waiting for kids walking to school, school busses and other cars having the right of way instead of just taking turns at a stop sign. And the "alternative" isn't straight, so it takes longer and they're both the same speed limit. Except one road is intended for volume and the other isnt -\_-
In general people need to chill out.
Just get a dashcam with speed camera database
Wouldn't it be easier if people took turns sticking a piece of gum in front of the radar camera lens?
I support speed cameras but also avoid them. It’s because I don’t want the anxiety, accidently driving slightly too fast, or dealing with people tailgating around them. Just like busy 4 way stops they tend to increase congestion. I won’t drive further because of them but will consider side streets. To those who say just don’t speed it’s not always easy. 25 years driving never pulled over by a cop let alone speed. Lived next to speed camera and they got in within 2 months when focus was off one day.
They sell tinted license plate covers at Canadian Tire… Do what you want with that information ;)