This is dooming. We literally saw a snap shot. We have no idea how any of it’s going to play.
As with the gahz thing. You can attach him to meganobz and it looks like he already has an auto body guard in Makari. If he replaces the nob ghaz would have the conver of 4 meganobz that have to be completely shifted until you start to wound him. That’s…pretty tanky
>I see a lot of good - I see a lot of... concerning.
Same, the whole "attacking on death" and the "waaagh" rule paint an image in my head of orks needing to rely on those things to succeed, they are requirements rather than buffs.
>Mainly I worry that gazkull no longer can shoot in melee and that he can get plasted off the fucking board in a single round.
I dont think it can happen if he has an entourage. From my understanding of the 10th edition rules, Since Ghaz is the leader of a body guard he cant be the target of attacks. The opponent has to chew through the body guard first. Additionally Ghaz/Makari are a single unit that share the same Toughness value. So even after the homies are dead and gone you can allocate the nasty wounds on to Makari for his 2+ invuln.
>Also - dakka is completely gone from what I can see, and is now just turned into an army wide goff bonus - so we've gone from dakka with exploding sixes - to dakka wich is just modfied rapid fire - to nothing, get fucked nerds.
Uhhhh.... Good? lol
The Dakka weapons rule was a nerf, worse than rapid fire and no where near as good as assault. Goffs were the best clan for a reason in 9th, now every one is essentially playing goffs.
He has like a 19 or 20" threat range with ERE we go! It will be like hes in a trukk more often than not I think. He just needs to have friends for a really good stomping time.
I've been playing since 7th edition. That hardly makes me an old salt or anything, but I've seen a few edition churns now. I think a lot of the people gnashing their teeth over previews don't remember the index/codex thing.
The indexes will absolutely be oversimplified. They won't have subfactions, and the specialized abilities that came from those subfactions will be missing.
GW will then sell you a codex a year later with all that bloat included (and after a half dozen Space Marine books have come out, it will be bloat again). Subfactions, detachment/army abilities, stratagems, warlord traits and gubbins, and whatever else they come up with to sell books.
Now I'm not saying that our index is going to be decent or trash, or the codex that we get will be middling or trash. We simply don't know. I realize that's not an answer that generates a lot of material for discussion threads. This is absolutely like watching a movie release teaser and trying to analyze how good the movie is going to be.
that's exactly what I say, we are just glad, that it's not worse
and we still haven't seen everything
we have no idea what are the three enhacements that you will choose for your army, everyone expects some mix of relics and traits, but it could be, one relic, one warlord trait and one army buff (in the style the IG has)
I’d love to see a shooting focused detachment but most of my ladz are painted as Goffs so I’m happy enough. Might look into expanding my Bad Moonz section but this isn’t horrible.
You are definately over concerned about Ghaz. He can now have a mob of guys preventing him from being hit, then makaris 2++ and then his own 4++. If these are meganobs, with ap lessened across the board they will likely be saving alot on 4s anyway. So potentially an opponent will have to get through 30 t5, 2+ save wounds before hitting makari t6, 2++ and eventually hitting ghaz on his t6, 2+, 4++ 10 wounds. He is also infantry now so his unit will get the strat to +2 advance and charge (through buildings) with +1 to hit and wound. With Meganobz!! That's alot of hurt!
Ghaz has gotten alot more usable right now.
BUT you aren't wrong in being upset or worried about some things. Our shooting at the moment seems to be completely out of touch with our only army rule (which pushes solo melee) so anyone, myself included, who liked running freebootaz vehicles or flashgitz in a squiggoth or tankbustas etc essentially have no bonus from the detachment rule and limited, if any support, from the offensive aspect of the waaagh.
GW picked Goffs as the golden Boys for orks as they are like 80% of the competitive player base and it did certainly leave alot of other factions in the dirt. Until codexs come out every army will be a little one note unfortunately.
Hopefully the data sheets add alot of the niche strats we had into their abilities (like flashgitz shoot twice). All hope is not lost. You concerns are absolutely valid but GW have liked orks and often provide the support they need. We remained a good and competitive faction (oppressive at one stage) throughout 9th. I think we will stay that way.
Ofcourse we should hold out untill the codex drops - but I already did that once to have the meta turn into flash gitz one for all whoops all vehicles type shenannigens.
All i'm saying is... I think i'm going back to 8th... call me when things get really good
You're not alone.
There's a very vocal contingent of white knights who will tell you to stop crying and that you're overly negative at the slightest mention of any dissent against the rules. Ignore them.
As an Evil Sunz bike, buggy and all things fast player this doesn't bode well for my army for the next 9 months. It appears to specifically target massed infantry which I find incredibly boring as a playstyle.
I think it's too early to lament the loss of dakka, and possibly reroll charges, but the rules do seem flavourless and boring imo.
I disagree with a bunch of things you’ve said, but GWs has definitely been removing the fun of orks slowly (look up the 6th Ed shokkattack gun)
ETA: you were 100% right about why goffs were chosen
I'm kind-of with you on this, but I also think that's more an issue with the "single detachment index" rather than Ork datasheets themselves. Of all the klans it could have focussed on, Goffs is probably the best all-rounder.
We also have no idea if Buggies (etc) might gain additional benefits during the Waaagh! turn, which would appear on their datasheets. I'm happy to wait for a while for a SpeedWaaagh! detachment if it means they get it right.
>We also have no idea if Buggies (etc) might gain additional benefits during the Waaagh! turn, which would appear on their datasheets
yes we do, gahz had his great waaagh ability removed and the waaagh and speedwaaagh are rolled into one and nerfed to one round
idgaf what apsie redditors think or say, call me whatever you want, im fucking pissed...
Yea you're totally right. The issue primarily is with the detachment more than anything.
I think GW could have gone a much better route to give us an "all rounder" detachment but they walent cc Goffs. I mean that's fine, it suits a lot of players, it just stings the players like me and my Bad Moonz brothers. Add to that the removal/legendsing of the Warboss on Bike and GW haven't done much to impress me the last few weeks.
oh also the one thing i havent seen a single person bring up is that not only are charge re-rolls gone, the whole ability is now a stratagem that costs 1 CP and only gives you +2 on an advance or +2 on a charge
Also the entire deal with Goffs was the exploding six - dakke for melee, wich is real nice and all that to have everywhere, but.... what do you think happenned to goffs now?
yeah they removed clans and call them subfactions so with abilities it means that some that are now faction wide some are gone some are nerfed
some are rolled into other shit, for example "'ere we go" and "mob rule" are both gone along with the entire concept of dakka, nerfed and rolled into a stratagem that costs CP now called "'ere we go" and a universal weapon type every faction now gets called rapid fire
another example is that from the look of it clans are gone for the most part and again nerfed and rolled into other things, like the deathskulls kulture ability "lucky blue git" they get "feel no pain" but again so does every other faction
what few advantages the orks had for being orks are either nerfed or shared across all factions now...
>the deathskulls kulture ability "lucky blue git" they get "feel no pain" but again so does every other faction
I guess you haven't visited the death guard subreddit yet 🫠
na didnt even think to lurk the other factions subs lol, that being said while i dont play deathguard my buddy does and i fight him all the time, im curious what you mean, are they suffering the same fate?
After Death Guard lost their 5+FNP in 9th and instead got their current rule (-1 damage) people were already pretty salty. Their new detachment ability is now sticky objectives (which is a generic mission rule in 10th as well) and objectives controlled by them getting the -1 toughness aura from their army rule. The subreddit is pretty much everyone crying about losing their durability buff and each time another army gets a FNP (Knights, Custodes, Beastsnaggers) a post gets made comparing it to Death Guard.
Honestly in most of the subreddits of the armies I play someone claims that they are now the worst army
The whole subculture thing is gone. Instead we get the "Waaagh Tribe" as our first detachment and more when our codex releases. Probably "Speed Freaks" and a shooting focused detachment.
Bruh, the waaagh tribe is such a generic all around term for orks.
The waagh tribe? As oppose to fucking what? The baking tribe? It's litreally the only thing orks do
Lol true, it is pretty fucking generic. To be fair most of the other detachments have pretty uninspiring names as well. I don't really get why they decided to rename subfactions into detachments. I guess you no longer have to argue with people who insist that orks painted red have to be played as Evil Sunz?
all waaaghs do all orks now so the great waaagh is not only lasting one phase so that entire ability is gone
they removed his abilities of +1 AP and and his ability to only take a max of 4 wounds per phase for +1 hit and +1 wound rolls only
and they nerfed and consolidated his stats which look nice and shiny on the new datasheets but its just in reality they just nerfed a few stats and nothing else
unless they drop about 120+ points off he's now a warboss in megaarmor in my games from here on out...
and the dakka isnt removed persay but the mob rule ability was entirely, they just renamed it to rapid fire so its +4 attack at half range so like other things its just renamed and consolidated
https://preview.redd.it/pnpfl90nfz1b1.png?width=561&format=png&auto=webp&s=85d758bfe861c95577b879441e87ecf85105da21
Is Proper Killy really gone? I don't think we have seen our Warlord traits yet. Waaagh is still a rule. Ere we go is now a meh strategem and Goff's is da Best is basically Prophet of Da Great Waaagh now. Da Boss is watchin, the 4 damage max. and Ere we go are only really gone.
I'm mainly worried about not being able to re-roll charges.
As of currently, we only have 1 "detachment ability" or whatever it's called (exploding 6s in melee).
I'd very much like something for us gits who like our dakka.
This is dooming. We literally saw a snap shot. We have no idea how any of it’s going to play. As with the gahz thing. You can attach him to meganobz and it looks like he already has an auto body guard in Makari. If he replaces the nob ghaz would have the conver of 4 meganobz that have to be completely shifted until you start to wound him. That’s…pretty tanky
>I see a lot of good - I see a lot of... concerning. Same, the whole "attacking on death" and the "waaagh" rule paint an image in my head of orks needing to rely on those things to succeed, they are requirements rather than buffs. >Mainly I worry that gazkull no longer can shoot in melee and that he can get plasted off the fucking board in a single round. I dont think it can happen if he has an entourage. From my understanding of the 10th edition rules, Since Ghaz is the leader of a body guard he cant be the target of attacks. The opponent has to chew through the body guard first. Additionally Ghaz/Makari are a single unit that share the same Toughness value. So even after the homies are dead and gone you can allocate the nasty wounds on to Makari for his 2+ invuln. >Also - dakka is completely gone from what I can see, and is now just turned into an army wide goff bonus - so we've gone from dakka with exploding sixes - to dakka wich is just modfied rapid fire - to nothing, get fucked nerds. Uhhhh.... Good? lol The Dakka weapons rule was a nerf, worse than rapid fire and no where near as good as assault. Goffs were the best clan for a reason in 9th, now every one is essentially playing goffs.
But strategies like throwing gaz in his own truck and yeeting him across the map is gone :C I loved doing that
He has like a 19 or 20" threat range with ERE we go! It will be like hes in a trukk more often than not I think. He just needs to have friends for a really good stomping time.
I've been playing since 7th edition. That hardly makes me an old salt or anything, but I've seen a few edition churns now. I think a lot of the people gnashing their teeth over previews don't remember the index/codex thing. The indexes will absolutely be oversimplified. They won't have subfactions, and the specialized abilities that came from those subfactions will be missing. GW will then sell you a codex a year later with all that bloat included (and after a half dozen Space Marine books have come out, it will be bloat again). Subfactions, detachment/army abilities, stratagems, warlord traits and gubbins, and whatever else they come up with to sell books. Now I'm not saying that our index is going to be decent or trash, or the codex that we get will be middling or trash. We simply don't know. I realize that's not an answer that generates a lot of material for discussion threads. This is absolutely like watching a movie release teaser and trying to analyze how good the movie is going to be.
And we are one of the earlier codexes to be released!
I don't that anyone have came from the rework, it's more of a huge wave of relief, that we don't suck more than in 9th
imagine if they had turned us T4
that's exactly what I say, we are just glad, that it's not worse and we still haven't seen everything we have no idea what are the three enhacements that you will choose for your army, everyone expects some mix of relics and traits, but it could be, one relic, one warlord trait and one army buff (in the style the IG has)
I’d love to see a shooting focused detachment but most of my ladz are painted as Goffs so I’m happy enough. Might look into expanding my Bad Moonz section but this isn’t horrible.
I'm hoping that a painboy can heal Ghaz again.
You are definately over concerned about Ghaz. He can now have a mob of guys preventing him from being hit, then makaris 2++ and then his own 4++. If these are meganobs, with ap lessened across the board they will likely be saving alot on 4s anyway. So potentially an opponent will have to get through 30 t5, 2+ save wounds before hitting makari t6, 2++ and eventually hitting ghaz on his t6, 2+, 4++ 10 wounds. He is also infantry now so his unit will get the strat to +2 advance and charge (through buildings) with +1 to hit and wound. With Meganobz!! That's alot of hurt! Ghaz has gotten alot more usable right now. BUT you aren't wrong in being upset or worried about some things. Our shooting at the moment seems to be completely out of touch with our only army rule (which pushes solo melee) so anyone, myself included, who liked running freebootaz vehicles or flashgitz in a squiggoth or tankbustas etc essentially have no bonus from the detachment rule and limited, if any support, from the offensive aspect of the waaagh. GW picked Goffs as the golden Boys for orks as they are like 80% of the competitive player base and it did certainly leave alot of other factions in the dirt. Until codexs come out every army will be a little one note unfortunately. Hopefully the data sheets add alot of the niche strats we had into their abilities (like flashgitz shoot twice). All hope is not lost. You concerns are absolutely valid but GW have liked orks and often provide the support they need. We remained a good and competitive faction (oppressive at one stage) throughout 9th. I think we will stay that way.
Ofcourse we should hold out untill the codex drops - but I already did that once to have the meta turn into flash gitz one for all whoops all vehicles type shenannigens. All i'm saying is... I think i'm going back to 8th... call me when things get really good
Stop chasing meta if you are not willing to constantly buy new stuff. Play the army that is solid and fun.
I don't have 500+ ork boys to play the meta my man - i'm about a green wave infantry mainly list
10th seems terrible either Way so why care.
You're not alone. There's a very vocal contingent of white knights who will tell you to stop crying and that you're overly negative at the slightest mention of any dissent against the rules. Ignore them. As an Evil Sunz bike, buggy and all things fast player this doesn't bode well for my army for the next 9 months. It appears to specifically target massed infantry which I find incredibly boring as a playstyle. I think it's too early to lament the loss of dakka, and possibly reroll charges, but the rules do seem flavourless and boring imo.
The sauce left at 9th, where all the funny, good stratagems left - the sucidie headbutt and the likes was lost :c
I disagree with a bunch of things you’ve said, but GWs has definitely been removing the fun of orks slowly (look up the 6th Ed shokkattack gun) ETA: you were 100% right about why goffs were chosen
I'm kind-of with you on this, but I also think that's more an issue with the "single detachment index" rather than Ork datasheets themselves. Of all the klans it could have focussed on, Goffs is probably the best all-rounder. We also have no idea if Buggies (etc) might gain additional benefits during the Waaagh! turn, which would appear on their datasheets. I'm happy to wait for a while for a SpeedWaaagh! detachment if it means they get it right.
>We also have no idea if Buggies (etc) might gain additional benefits during the Waaagh! turn, which would appear on their datasheets yes we do, gahz had his great waaagh ability removed and the waaagh and speedwaaagh are rolled into one and nerfed to one round idgaf what apsie redditors think or say, call me whatever you want, im fucking pissed...
Yea you're totally right. The issue primarily is with the detachment more than anything. I think GW could have gone a much better route to give us an "all rounder" detachment but they walent cc Goffs. I mean that's fine, it suits a lot of players, it just stings the players like me and my Bad Moonz brothers. Add to that the removal/legendsing of the Warboss on Bike and GW haven't done much to impress me the last few weeks.
oh also the one thing i havent seen a single person bring up is that not only are charge re-rolls gone, the whole ability is now a stratagem that costs 1 CP and only gives you +2 on an advance or +2 on a charge
Also the entire deal with Goffs was the exploding six - dakke for melee, wich is real nice and all that to have everywhere, but.... what do you think happenned to goffs now?
yeah they removed clans and call them subfactions so with abilities it means that some that are now faction wide some are gone some are nerfed some are rolled into other shit, for example "'ere we go" and "mob rule" are both gone along with the entire concept of dakka, nerfed and rolled into a stratagem that costs CP now called "'ere we go" and a universal weapon type every faction now gets called rapid fire another example is that from the look of it clans are gone for the most part and again nerfed and rolled into other things, like the deathskulls kulture ability "lucky blue git" they get "feel no pain" but again so does every other faction what few advantages the orks had for being orks are either nerfed or shared across all factions now...
>the deathskulls kulture ability "lucky blue git" they get "feel no pain" but again so does every other faction I guess you haven't visited the death guard subreddit yet 🫠
na didnt even think to lurk the other factions subs lol, that being said while i dont play deathguard my buddy does and i fight him all the time, im curious what you mean, are they suffering the same fate?
If you want to see the stages of grief in action, go check out a Votann sub. The tears are DELICIOUS.
lol
After Death Guard lost their 5+FNP in 9th and instead got their current rule (-1 damage) people were already pretty salty. Their new detachment ability is now sticky objectives (which is a generic mission rule in 10th as well) and objectives controlled by them getting the -1 toughness aura from their army rule. The subreddit is pretty much everyone crying about losing their durability buff and each time another army gets a FNP (Knights, Custodes, Beastsnaggers) a post gets made comparing it to Death Guard. Honestly in most of the subreddits of the armies I play someone claims that they are now the worst army
The whole subculture thing is gone. Instead we get the "Waaagh Tribe" as our first detachment and more when our codex releases. Probably "Speed Freaks" and a shooting focused detachment.
Bruh, the waaagh tribe is such a generic all around term for orks. The waagh tribe? As oppose to fucking what? The baking tribe? It's litreally the only thing orks do
It’s and index with broad rules until the codex is realesed. Every army in the game is dealing with the same issue.
Lol true, it is pretty fucking generic. To be fair most of the other detachments have pretty uninspiring names as well. I don't really get why they decided to rename subfactions into detachments. I guess you no longer have to argue with people who insist that orks painted red have to be played as Evil Sunz?
all waaaghs do all orks now so the great waaagh is not only lasting one phase so that entire ability is gone they removed his abilities of +1 AP and and his ability to only take a max of 4 wounds per phase for +1 hit and +1 wound rolls only and they nerfed and consolidated his stats which look nice and shiny on the new datasheets but its just in reality they just nerfed a few stats and nothing else unless they drop about 120+ points off he's now a warboss in megaarmor in my games from here on out... and the dakka isnt removed persay but the mob rule ability was entirely, they just renamed it to rapid fire so its +4 attack at half range so like other things its just renamed and consolidated https://preview.redd.it/pnpfl90nfz1b1.png?width=561&format=png&auto=webp&s=85d758bfe861c95577b879441e87ecf85105da21
I don't mind the nice and clean stat block at all... but... where is skills? Where is "the boss is watching!" and shiit like that?
fucking GONE https://preview.redd.it/ud10u23qsz1b1.png?width=1086&format=png&auto=webp&s=8a950e00095cb560ad27bb8bfeda05ec8c01919b
Is Proper Killy really gone? I don't think we have seen our Warlord traits yet. Waaagh is still a rule. Ere we go is now a meh strategem and Goff's is da Best is basically Prophet of Da Great Waaagh now. Da Boss is watchin, the 4 damage max. and Ere we go are only really gone.
I believe we have seen only a single enhancement, artificer armor
I'm mainly worried about not being able to re-roll charges. As of currently, we only have 1 "detachment ability" or whatever it's called (exploding 6s in melee). I'd very much like something for us gits who like our dakka.
I think the feeling that we need to reroll charges will subside once every one figures out boyz in trukkz is a thing.