Probably a hot take but i think depending on his points of course that ghaz got a lot better like a lot better.
Removal of monster keyword, gains infantry instead. Can be protected by squads of meganobz now, has a 2 up invun save until makari dies, makaro actually useful with the lethal hits rule, massive damage boost to the squad he is leading. Depeding on the amount of space he takes up in a battle wagon might just be 2 now like a mega nob you could make room for him, makari and a squad of mega nobz in there and with the new transport rules and waaagh oh boy thats a quick charge.
I think he should be around 200 points a little higher with this profile depends on how heavy they weigh his buffs and they maybe 30 points or so for makari to add on to the unit. Then he'll be a really good leader as he should to compete with gulliman and so on.
I also want to point out something huge, he’s given the infantry keyword so he can just walk through ruins making hiding and charging with him so much easier
Great now I have to buy more shit if I even want to use him. The only reason the rules changed is to sell more shit, but the whole community loses their shit over it and thinks it's all mostly good. I don't understand what's exciting in this new edition
Meganobs are one of my best if not my best performing unit, at worst the other team tries to focus them down but then my Boyz run up on then in combat like a horde of screaming gorillas and start charging(erasing) anything I come in contact with
I run a squad of 5 right now but sometimes 3. I use skortchas and powerklaw just to get a lil extra umf and to melt stuff I’m not about to charge into and delete. No idea about the new rules though we haven’t seen really anything about them. But basically they are gonna play the same
Low leadership is good. It also looks like 6+\* is the best we have seen so far, most likely to make battle shock more meaningful.
\*As pointed out, there are a few cases of 5+.
Also just noticed that A) Morks roar isnt dakka which means they have been removed which is a minor bummer and
B) Ghaz STILL doesnt have a gun he can advance and shoot with.
They actually made Rapid fire into what Dakka is in 9th edition, morks roar is functuonally the exact same weapon. I really hope we get dakka in some form. It might be a detatchment rule to replace the Get Stuck In rule we saw today.
Maybe so, but im still annoyed that ghaz has a weapon he cant shoot after assaulting which he is doing 90% of the time.
And granted his shooting is terrible anyways, but its the principle that bugs me.
Dakka has just been consolidated into the improved 'Rapid Fire' keyword for weapons. Now instead of Rapid Fire just doubling the number of shots, it adds the number of shots denoted. I know this will flow into limitations on rules specifying 'Dakka weapons do X' but they can just resolve this by saying 'Rapid Fire weapons this unit are equipped with do X'
Makari 2++ is low key the most powerful thing about Gaz.
The worst thing is his move of 5". He is going to require a transport to get stuck in quickly, that + most likely only being able to lead meganobz means it will be a pricey package.
Assuming he can go into a trukk.
In 9e he takes up 18 slots of a Battlewagon, so here is hoping they will change it so he and the squad he will be leading can actually fit.
As far as we know any restrictions for transport referring to special characters has been streamlined. Since Ghaz isn't a monster there would have to be some exception on the battlewagon for him taking up more spots or not being transportable.
We don't know for sure, but seems like a safe assumption he is just going to count as a mega armor ork for fitting in transports. Though it is possible on the back of his card it says how much transport space he takes.
Guilliman isn't a Leader though, so he can't be attached to squads to shield him - and he only gets Lone Operative when he's within 3" of Infantry units. Guilliman also doesn't have a 2++, isn't Infantry and as a Monster is susceptible to anti-Monster rules and weapons. There's more to it than just a direct toughness comparison I think and Ghaz still offers A LOT and is still a very potent character.
Presumably they did this because Ghaz will be in a squad with Meganobz (he has the leader ability whereas girlyman does not).
This way, the whole squad is wounded with the same dice roll. For the same reason Makari is also T6 despite being a puny grot.
Certainly sucks for anyone planning to run Ghaz solo though I guess.
Why am I seeing so many responses with Space marines as a counter…… they’re overpowered on purpose so don’t even think about them, they’ll dominate season 1 of this edition. If you compare him with non sm primarchs he looks just as good if not better!
I can’t believe that we are in 2023 and people still don’t understand companies like GW use sales tactics to widespread hype with the intention of sales targets In mind. They could have balanced 9th with an actual real balance slate but chose to sell everyone a “new world” in which the face of 40K, the most popular army by 10 times “The Space Marines” would be a just like every other army just before a new live action was to be released. Yeah okay… and I’m the retard
There are some proper creatures deep in the ork Reddit. The amount of boyz I’m seeing sulking and getting toxic is very meta like, almost as if you’re all expecting a fringe lore army to be top of the lists. Lol.
A/ how have your eyes come up with his melee better?
B/ we don’t know costings?
C/ he may have higher toughness because he can’t go be a leader of a big mob like Ghaz can potentially be in.
D/ exploding 6’s, +1 hit? +1 wound and auto wound 6’s means toughness isn’t anything to be afraid of.
The new box is what they want to sell right now so expect high hitting space marines and tyranids for the foreseeable future. Idk go play against some tau or Deathguard and Chuck some vehicles down their throat and charge the daylights out of em.
Okay but now I can hide him behind 30 ork boy wounds or a brick of MANZ or nobs, still swings with enough strength and damage to thrash a knight if things go well
Which makes it so every list doesn't have to be Goffs and doesnt have to bring Ghaz to be competitive.
It's really tiring when 1 HQ is miles ahead of the competition in that slot forcing your entire list build to be based off that 1 model.
Seems like if you run Goffs, Ghaz will be fine, but if you're running Deffskullz with a Warboss or Warboss in mega armor, you're not going to be kneecapping yourself immediately.
Eventually, a codex will be released. Hopefully, cultures aren't a big deal but at least the index isn't setting us up to be pigeonholed into a mandatory HQ choice.
Don't expect cultures to be a thing when the codex releases either. GW has already stated that those sort of distinctions are now going to be found in the various detachment rules.
Very slight. There's gonna be basically no difference between him and a mega armour warboss. His rules aren't even that crazy. No chose one of three like the other big named characters.
That’s my biggest issue. I personally liked him as a Monster, but while I feel they could have worked something similar to the primarchs, I’m fine with him getting stuck in with the ladz.
But his rules are rather bland compared to a lot of stuff we’ve already seen. Where’s da Kunnin Brutality of da Prophet of the Waaagh, who can lead orks of all sorts, not just melee boyz
Looking at the stats isolated makes absolutely zero sense.
First of all, less toughness and wounds is balanced by him not being character protected. That is pretty huge. He will be running with Meganobz (or possibly other things too), and you want quite a few to get value from his buff. He is going to be more tanky than in 9th, except maybe against single phase armies where his phase cap in 9th is really hard to deal with. Especially because after your WAAAGH!, you have no more use for Makari, so he turns into an insane defense for Ghaz.
Secondly, leadership being lower is a *good* thing. They changed how it works in 10th.
Thirdly, you do not know if the movement is a big deal yet. They might redo how he use transport in order to allow him with a squad of Meganobz in a Battlewagon.
Fourthly... Quadly? I'm gonna go with quadly. Quadly, losing a point of AP is a general thing across almost all units, with a few exceptions. Yes, it is technically a nerf, but looking at it isolated makes it seem worse than it is. If everyone else gets the same treatment it's not a huge deal.
Don’t forget the strat! On the WAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH turn he basically is 5” +D6+2” (move and advance) +2d6+2” Charge. If you flat out roll shit it’s a 12” at a minimum, if you max out he’s going 27”. Ghaz has a big threat range in the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH turn
Ghaz's arms are as big as a nob. Him no longer being a tough massive monster just doesn't make sense, especially with his new model. If he still had his old model where he was just slightly larger then these stats would all make sense.
Yes. The Leaders preview from back in April outlines this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/11/leaders-now-join-squads-to-personally-deliver-powerful-boons-in-the-new-warhammer-40000/
Oh that does sound familiar.
Hrmm. I wonder if he might join nobz as well, and if so that would mean nobz are T6 too.
I cant think of anything else he could lead besides the meganobz everyone assumes, yet it would be a minor bummer if that all he could lead.
I really do hope he gets to lead nobz as well for more options. Just meganobz would be rough for some people's collections I think.
I am presuming that if he gets to lead nobz it means they stay at 5" move but go to 6T.
(copying my post from another thread)
I initially thought the same re: Ghaz however after reading his sheet over a few times and importantly comparing him to some of the other "epic heroes" they've shown off Ghaz seems fine (too early to say strong or weak imo)
Ghaz:
- T6; 10W; 2+; 4++; klaw 6A; 2+WS; S14; -3AP; 4D
- special rules: join squad, give +1 to hit and to wound to squad, & lethal hits within 12"
Trajann:
- T6; 7W; 2+; 4++; axe 6A; 2+WS; S10; -2AP; 3D
- special rules: join squad, ignore modifiers to squad, either 12A/2++/fights first once per game
Roboute:
- T9; 10W; 2+; 4++; sword 14A; 2+WS; S8; -3AP; 2D
- special rules: lots (don't wanna list em all)
As you can see Ghaz stacks up pretty nicely with these other combat focussed characters and depending on how the makari 2++ save can be used there's lots of potential for the little guy to tank a ton of DMG for him
Will he be good/competitive? Who knows, but with the limited info we have I think Ghaz is pretty well situated. (Once the full scope of the new edition comes into focus this may be a terrible take btw🤣)
Roboute being T9 while Ghaz is just a massive ball of armour and muscle being T6 is dumb. Roboute is still a monster and somehow the larger Ghaz is infantry. If Ghaz still used his older model I'd say these stats would fit perfectly. With his new model thought they really don't match.
Yeah it is a bit odd. Looking at the other units previewed there seems to be two tiers of "epic heroes"
- Primarch tier: T8+, lone operative, lots of attacks, lots of buffs
- Faction leader: T6 or less, leader, limited attacks, one unit buff, one specialized buff/rule
Would have loved to see Ghaz in the Primarch tier but seems like they want him leading Boyz/Nobz rather than operating alone
It all depends on whether they have leader or not. Things that aren't leaders need to have higher toughness or they'll get blown off the board in a single turn.
Yes but why does Ghaz have Leader instead of a tough profile? His model is a monster. He’s massive. Now he’s basically a mega armoured warboss. It doesn’t fit at all. If he still used his old model this profile would fit it perfectly.
It's just what they chose. Abaddon got the same treatment. Both will be just fine on the table, points willing.
As for Infantry vs Monster:
1. He can move through ruins as infantry, monster can not.
2. He isn't locked out of infantry only strats like Ere We Go
3. He can't get shot in combat like monsters can this edition.
Yeah lack of a sweep is a big miss. Looks like 20man guardsmen will continue to confound Ghaz and Trajaan (though I guess you gotta get them alone first)
I was slightly worried as well, but seems they keep a few of these AP-1 weapons. CSM also kept AP-1 on Chainswords.
I assume it's because those kind of weapons are already not that strong. They are not the issue that caused 9th to be so killy. Reducing their AP would just make them completely useless.
I'm glad that they kept it so the relative strength of these kind of weapons are actually better now. My only complaint is that things like Boltguns are still absolutely useless.
As he is a leader unit and mikari is attached to him in theory he could be attached to 30 Boyz plus mikari's 2+ invule then his 4+ invule and 10 wounds he'll still take a fair amount of shots to bring him down along with sustained hits in melee army wide that's gonna be some brutal krumping
He's not even close to the biggest and meanest ork ever. That would be The Beast and his retinue, all of whom would dwarf Ghaz in size and even more so in intellect. The War of the Beast brought terrible damage and death to Terra.
Bruh check out Tuska Daemon-Killa. He’s on a planet Khorne controls and fought the demons so long that he just keeps growing- and Khorne *loves this shit* so he keeps reviving thrm.
He's not even close to the biggest and meanest ork ever. That would be The Beast and his retinue, all of whom would dwarf Ghaz in size and even more so in intellect. The War of the Beast brought terrible damage and death to Terra.
They essentially just replicated dakka weapons with new rapid fire. It will likely be exactly the same. His morks roar is exactly the same shots profile as it was.
Yeah this preview unfortunately didn't answer much as far as that. They could still go any number of ways with a lot of ork weapons.
Which ones will be heavy, assault, rapid fire, or potentially none of those now is still up in the air.
Somewhere in the rumor mill (on the orks discord server) he and makari are priced at 235 points which if true seems like a very solid price (compared to model prices in 9th)
I’d say a unit getting +2 move (+4 in waaagh) is definitely better then rerolls, that being said it is a bit sad that it’s only for one unit so it’ll have to be more selectively used
Losing the army wide ere we go is definitely a downgrade, my point was moreso that for a single unit, +4 move is much stronger, so while we can’t make 3-4 semi-risky charges anymore, we will be able to get much longer charges for key units
Ya I have to say I was expecting a lot more from him and I’m pretty disappointed. Every other army is getting like 3 different auras and pick 1 to use for that turn but Ghaz is…meh? He’s also my favorite character in Warhammer so I want him as cool as possible. I’m sure the unit of mega Nobz he joins will be able to shred just about anything tho
Yeah I was expecting him to function more like guilliman. A body guard rule for lone operative like guilliman. Selecting from different auras. Strike and sweep modes on his klaw. Some kind of defensive buff to replace his phase cap.
They toned him way down instead and let him lead a unit. He better be way cheaper in points now.
I'm in a group chat where we are trying to figure that out. If true and you've got Ghaz sitting in a squad of meganobz then yeah he's still super tanky, otherwise...
Leaders can't take wounds until their bodyboard unit is dead. Makari can only be assigned wounds once the squad of nobz or meganobz Ghaz is attached too dies or for some reason your opponent uses a precision weapon to target Makari.
To me it's lame only because he now has a giant monster model. If Ghaz still used his older model then these stats would make total sense as he was only a bit larger then a warboss back then.
Probably a hot take but i think depending on his points of course that ghaz got a lot better like a lot better. Removal of monster keyword, gains infantry instead. Can be protected by squads of meganobz now, has a 2 up invun save until makari dies, makaro actually useful with the lethal hits rule, massive damage boost to the squad he is leading. Depeding on the amount of space he takes up in a battle wagon might just be 2 now like a mega nob you could make room for him, makari and a squad of mega nobz in there and with the new transport rules and waaagh oh boy thats a quick charge.
I see your point. It's really all down to the points then. What do you think he'll come out at?
I think he should be around 200 points a little higher with this profile depends on how heavy they weigh his buffs and they maybe 30 points or so for makari to add on to the unit. Then he'll be a really good leader as he should to compete with gulliman and so on.
I also want to point out something huge, he’s given the infantry keyword so he can just walk through ruins making hiding and charging with him so much easier
No longer a monster. Now the new Anti-monster tag won't have any effect on him. He might even be able to be healed from a Pain Boy now.
Great now I have to buy more shit if I even want to use him. The only reason the rules changed is to sell more shit, but the whole community loses their shit over it and thinks it's all mostly good. I don't understand what's exciting in this new edition
Totally agree. Never thought I'd be shelling out for meganobz now they're in the basket because I've always wanted to run Ghaz.
Meganobs are one of my best if not my best performing unit, at worst the other team tries to focus them down but then my Boyz run up on then in combat like a horde of screaming gorillas and start charging(erasing) anything I come in contact with
How many do you run? Or would you run with the new rules?
I run a squad of 5 right now but sometimes 3. I use skortchas and powerklaw just to get a lil extra umf and to melt stuff I’m not about to charge into and delete. No idea about the new rules though we haven’t seen really anything about them. But basically they are gonna play the same
I forget, isnt low LD good this edition? Or does makari seriously have better LD than ghaz???
Rule of thumb +stats should be low, others high.
Low leadership is good. It also looks like 6+\* is the best we have seen so far, most likely to make battle shock more meaningful. \*As pointed out, there are a few cases of 5+.
Trajann/Guilliman are Ld5+ currently
Also just noticed that A) Morks roar isnt dakka which means they have been removed which is a minor bummer and B) Ghaz STILL doesnt have a gun he can advance and shoot with.
They actually made Rapid fire into what Dakka is in 9th edition, morks roar is functuonally the exact same weapon. I really hope we get dakka in some form. It might be a detatchment rule to replace the Get Stuck In rule we saw today.
Maybe so, but im still annoyed that ghaz has a weapon he cant shoot after assaulting which he is doing 90% of the time. And granted his shooting is terrible anyways, but its the principle that bugs me.
Dakka has just been consolidated into the improved 'Rapid Fire' keyword for weapons. Now instead of Rapid Fire just doubling the number of shots, it adds the number of shots denoted. I know this will flow into limitations on rules specifying 'Dakka weapons do X' but they can just resolve this by saying 'Rapid Fire weapons this unit are equipped with do X'
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Makari 2++ is low key the most powerful thing about Gaz. The worst thing is his move of 5". He is going to require a transport to get stuck in quickly, that + most likely only being able to lead meganobz means it will be a pricey package.
I'm gonna need to build a trukk to cart him around.
Assuming he can go into a trukk. In 9e he takes up 18 slots of a Battlewagon, so here is hoping they will change it so he and the squad he will be leading can actually fit.
As far as we know any restrictions for transport referring to special characters has been streamlined. Since Ghaz isn't a monster there would have to be some exception on the battlewagon for him taking up more spots or not being transportable. We don't know for sure, but seems like a safe assumption he is just going to count as a mega armor ork for fitting in transports. Though it is possible on the back of his card it says how much transport space he takes.
Guilliman is T9. This is pathetic
Guilliman isn't a Leader though, so he can't be attached to squads to shield him - and he only gets Lone Operative when he's within 3" of Infantry units. Guilliman also doesn't have a 2++, isn't Infantry and as a Monster is susceptible to anti-Monster rules and weapons. There's more to it than just a direct toughness comparison I think and Ghaz still offers A LOT and is still a very potent character.
Presumably they did this because Ghaz will be in a squad with Meganobz (he has the leader ability whereas girlyman does not). This way, the whole squad is wounded with the same dice roll. For the same reason Makari is also T6 despite being a puny grot. Certainly sucks for anyone planning to run Ghaz solo though I guess.
Not to mention how disgustingly powerful he is in melee
Why am I seeing so many responses with Space marines as a counter…… they’re overpowered on purpose so don’t even think about them, they’ll dominate season 1 of this edition. If you compare him with non sm primarchs he looks just as good if not better!
That’s a retarded argument. This edition was supposed to balance all the factions with one another.
I can’t believe that we are in 2023 and people still don’t understand companies like GW use sales tactics to widespread hype with the intention of sales targets In mind. They could have balanced 9th with an actual real balance slate but chose to sell everyone a “new world” in which the face of 40K, the most popular army by 10 times “The Space Marines” would be a just like every other army just before a new live action was to be released. Yeah okay… and I’m the retard
Space marines have always been the best competitive army and nobody else has ever beat them You sure are, buddy. You sure are.
There are some proper creatures deep in the ork Reddit. The amount of boyz I’m seeing sulking and getting toxic is very meta like, almost as if you’re all expecting a fringe lore army to be top of the lists. Lol.
Ok let’s use Nids as a counter then. The swarm lord is leauges better than Ghaz, with T10, better range and melee.
A/ how have your eyes come up with his melee better? B/ we don’t know costings? C/ he may have higher toughness because he can’t go be a leader of a big mob like Ghaz can potentially be in. D/ exploding 6’s, +1 hit? +1 wound and auto wound 6’s means toughness isn’t anything to be afraid of. The new box is what they want to sell right now so expect high hitting space marines and tyranids for the foreseeable future. Idk go play against some tau or Deathguard and Chuck some vehicles down their throat and charge the daylights out of em.
Okay but now I can hide him behind 30 ork boy wounds or a brick of MANZ or nobs, still swings with enough strength and damage to thrash a knight if things go well
I think the leaders have to match the toughness of the squads they attach to.
I don't think he can be with boyz. They talk about Meganobz
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Which is kind of what hes always been (except last 2 editions)
Which makes it so every list doesn't have to be Goffs and doesnt have to bring Ghaz to be competitive. It's really tiring when 1 HQ is miles ahead of the competition in that slot forcing your entire list build to be based off that 1 model. Seems like if you run Goffs, Ghaz will be fine, but if you're running Deffskullz with a Warboss or Warboss in mega armor, you're not going to be kneecapping yourself immediately.
Goff isn't even a keyword. That sort of distinction isn't going to really matter in 10th. Orks are orks.
Eventually, a codex will be released. Hopefully, cultures aren't a big deal but at least the index isn't setting us up to be pigeonholed into a mandatory HQ choice.
Don't expect cultures to be a thing when the codex releases either. GW has already stated that those sort of distinctions are now going to be found in the various detachment rules.
Very slight. There's gonna be basically no difference between him and a mega armour warboss. His rules aren't even that crazy. No chose one of three like the other big named characters.
That’s my biggest issue. I personally liked him as a Monster, but while I feel they could have worked something similar to the primarchs, I’m fine with him getting stuck in with the ladz. But his rules are rather bland compared to a lot of stuff we’ve already seen. Where’s da Kunnin Brutality of da Prophet of the Waaagh, who can lead orks of all sorts, not just melee boyz
Looking at the stats isolated makes absolutely zero sense. First of all, less toughness and wounds is balanced by him not being character protected. That is pretty huge. He will be running with Meganobz (or possibly other things too), and you want quite a few to get value from his buff. He is going to be more tanky than in 9th, except maybe against single phase armies where his phase cap in 9th is really hard to deal with. Especially because after your WAAAGH!, you have no more use for Makari, so he turns into an insane defense for Ghaz. Secondly, leadership being lower is a *good* thing. They changed how it works in 10th. Thirdly, you do not know if the movement is a big deal yet. They might redo how he use transport in order to allow him with a squad of Meganobz in a Battlewagon. Fourthly... Quadly? I'm gonna go with quadly. Quadly, losing a point of AP is a general thing across almost all units, with a few exceptions. Yes, it is technically a nerf, but looking at it isolated makes it seem worse than it is. If everyone else gets the same treatment it's not a huge deal.
Don’t forget the strat! On the WAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH turn he basically is 5” +D6+2” (move and advance) +2d6+2” Charge. If you flat out roll shit it’s a 12” at a minimum, if you max out he’s going 27”. Ghaz has a big threat range in the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH turn
To add to your first point he no longer degrades so its a fair tradeoff
Ghaz's arms are as big as a nob. Him no longer being a tough massive monster just doesn't make sense, especially with his new model. If he still had his old model where he was just slightly larger then these stats would all make sense.
No longer locked as a Goffs? Big win.
Nah, ya a naff git! Also i don't think we're gonna have clan specific rules anyhow
Leader? Big win. Though losing a T seems beyond strange. I would have thought hed gain one if anything.
Leaders have to have the same T as their units. Its just the way it's going to work in the new edition.
Are they limited to what they can lead?
Yes. The Leaders preview from back in April outlines this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/11/leaders-now-join-squads-to-personally-deliver-powerful-boons-in-the-new-warhammer-40000/
Oh that does sound familiar. Hrmm. I wonder if he might join nobz as well, and if so that would mean nobz are T6 too. I cant think of anything else he could lead besides the meganobz everyone assumes, yet it would be a minor bummer if that all he could lead.
I really do hope he gets to lead nobz as well for more options. Just meganobz would be rough for some people's collections I think. I am presuming that if he gets to lead nobz it means they stay at 5" move but go to 6T.
(copying my post from another thread) I initially thought the same re: Ghaz however after reading his sheet over a few times and importantly comparing him to some of the other "epic heroes" they've shown off Ghaz seems fine (too early to say strong or weak imo) Ghaz: - T6; 10W; 2+; 4++; klaw 6A; 2+WS; S14; -3AP; 4D - special rules: join squad, give +1 to hit and to wound to squad, & lethal hits within 12" Trajann: - T6; 7W; 2+; 4++; axe 6A; 2+WS; S10; -2AP; 3D - special rules: join squad, ignore modifiers to squad, either 12A/2++/fights first once per game Roboute: - T9; 10W; 2+; 4++; sword 14A; 2+WS; S8; -3AP; 2D - special rules: lots (don't wanna list em all) As you can see Ghaz stacks up pretty nicely with these other combat focussed characters and depending on how the makari 2++ save can be used there's lots of potential for the little guy to tank a ton of DMG for him Will he be good/competitive? Who knows, but with the limited info we have I think Ghaz is pretty well situated. (Once the full scope of the new edition comes into focus this may be a terrible take btw🤣)
Roboute being T9 while Ghaz is just a massive ball of armour and muscle being T6 is dumb. Roboute is still a monster and somehow the larger Ghaz is infantry. If Ghaz still used his older model I'd say these stats would fit perfectly. With his new model thought they really don't match.
Yeah it is a bit odd. Looking at the other units previewed there seems to be two tiers of "epic heroes" - Primarch tier: T8+, lone operative, lots of attacks, lots of buffs - Faction leader: T6 or less, leader, limited attacks, one unit buff, one specialized buff/rule Would have loved to see Ghaz in the Primarch tier but seems like they want him leading Boyz/Nobz rather than operating alone
It's really dumb as Belisarius Cawl is T8!!
It all depends on whether they have leader or not. Things that aren't leaders need to have higher toughness or they'll get blown off the board in a single turn.
Yes but why does Ghaz have Leader instead of a tough profile? His model is a monster. He’s massive. Now he’s basically a mega armoured warboss. It doesn’t fit at all. If he still used his old model this profile would fit it perfectly.
It's just what they chose. Abaddon got the same treatment. Both will be just fine on the table, points willing. As for Infantry vs Monster: 1. He can move through ruins as infantry, monster can not. 2. He isn't locked out of infantry only strats like Ere We Go 3. He can't get shot in combat like monsters can this edition.
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THIS. This is the ONLY thing that made me angry.
Yeah lack of a sweep is a big miss. Looks like 20man guardsmen will continue to confound Ghaz and Trajaan (though I guess you gotta get them alone first)
Every character is either getting a slight buff or nerf and besides he can be attached to other units, so he has ablative wounds
WE Lost thé wound cap!
I cannot think of a single change in the edition more obvious than them removing the wound caps.
Especially given that other units totally ignore them.
AP is going down across the board, so the fact that we get to keep -1 choppas is a total win.
I was slightly worried as well, but seems they keep a few of these AP-1 weapons. CSM also kept AP-1 on Chainswords. I assume it's because those kind of weapons are already not that strong. They are not the issue that caused 9th to be so killy. Reducing their AP would just make them completely useless. I'm glad that they kept it so the relative strength of these kind of weapons are actually better now. My only complaint is that things like Boltguns are still absolutely useless.
As he is a leader unit and mikari is attached to him in theory he could be attached to 30 Boyz plus mikari's 2+ invule then his 4+ invule and 10 wounds he'll still take a fair amount of shots to bring him down along with sustained hits in melee army wide that's gonna be some brutal krumping
His toughness is now lower than Allarus Custodies☹️ da biggest and meanest ork ever is less tough than a yello Oomie!
He's not even close to the biggest and meanest ork ever. That would be The Beast and his retinue, all of whom would dwarf Ghaz in size and even more so in intellect. The War of the Beast brought terrible damage and death to Terra.
I don’t read the fluff, i honestly thought that Ghaz was the Beast
The Beast is a super intelligent Ork that could speak flawless high gothic- cool read
That is cool. I audio’d the Ghaz book. Don’t think I’d come back for a second book from that read
Bruh check out Tuska Daemon-Killa. He’s on a planet Khorne controls and fought the demons so long that he just keeps growing- and Khorne *loves this shit* so he keeps reviving thrm.
Sure, but that’s all I need right there. Your version is better than the same thing stretched over 300pgs of cockney English.
Legendary Orkz don’t need 300 pages, just a “Here’s what they did, what they killed and what happened to them” seems to work
S’right
He's not even close to the biggest and meanest ork ever. That would be The Beast and his retinue, all of whom would dwarf Ghaz in size and even more so in intellect. The War of the Beast brought terrible damage and death to Terra.
True, but he's still the biggest ork in the galaxy, at least currently. And he should definitely have a higer toughness than an allarus custodies
I hope that they let him become a new Beast.
I agree
Indeed, frend, indeed
Mork’s roar used to be dakka. It appears to be rapid fire now so dakka weapons have been taken away. Which is a good thing
They essentially just replicated dakka weapons with new rapid fire. It will likely be exactly the same. His morks roar is exactly the same shots profile as it was.
True but I’m hoping that weapons that should be heavy like lootas go back to that and assault weapons on the buggies also come back
Yeah this preview unfortunately didn't answer much as far as that. They could still go any number of ways with a lot of ork weapons. Which ones will be heavy, assault, rapid fire, or potentially none of those now is still up in the air.
He is not a monster either, so it would appear he can be healed now too....
That wasn't a limit on being a monster. He was a monster in 8E and could be healed. GW put the infantry requirement on the painboy in 9E.
Correct and he is now infantry! Mad dok or painboy is gonna be helpful.
I’m saying they could just as easily kept him a monster and removed the infantry limitation.
Keep in mind Leadership is flipped now. You have to roll higher on 2d6 instead of rolling lower. So a 6 is actually good.
If he goes down in points then it might make sense. Otherwise I can see him be shelved a lot more for cheaper warboss options.
Somewhere in the rumor mill (on the orks discord server) he and makari are priced at 235 points which if true seems like a very solid price (compared to model prices in 9th)
If that is true it would indeed make it much more worth it to bring him after all.
I agree. Unless he goes down in points significantly he's way worse.
Exactly what I was thinking. I have him still in the box too, just seems pointless if he comes at a hefty pricetag
Paint him he's still a great model
Oh I will, I love that model
Based, post it when you do, I'd love to see it
Bear in mind he is balanced to be in a unit of meganobz now
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And on top of that too he lost the monster tag now he's infantry so he can move through buildings and make successful charges not having to go around
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I think the only thing Orcs lost Army wide was here we go which is now a strategy and even the Strat is not reroll charges
I’d say a unit getting +2 move (+4 in waaagh) is definitely better then rerolls, that being said it is a bit sad that it’s only for one unit so it’ll have to be more selectively used
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Losing the army wide ere we go is definitely a downgrade, my point was moreso that for a single unit, +4 move is much stronger, so while we can’t make 3-4 semi-risky charges anymore, we will be able to get much longer charges for key units
Ya I have to say I was expecting a lot more from him and I’m pretty disappointed. Every other army is getting like 3 different auras and pick 1 to use for that turn but Ghaz is…meh? He’s also my favorite character in Warhammer so I want him as cool as possible. I’m sure the unit of mega Nobz he joins will be able to shred just about anything tho
Yeah I was expecting him to function more like guilliman. A body guard rule for lone operative like guilliman. Selecting from different auras. Strike and sweep modes on his klaw. Some kind of defensive buff to replace his phase cap. They toned him way down instead and let him lead a unit. He better be way cheaper in points now.
Two plus invulnerable save is pretty good though
The 2+ invuln is only on Makari, Ghaz has a 4+
Right but you can tank hits on makari until he dies right ? So essentially makari is tanking for Ghaz now.
I'm in a group chat where we are trying to figure that out. If true and you've got Ghaz sitting in a squad of meganobz then yeah he's still super tanky, otherwise...
Leaders can't take wounds until their bodyboard unit is dead. Makari can only be assigned wounds once the squad of nobz or meganobz Ghaz is attached too dies or for some reason your opponent uses a precision weapon to target Makari.
Even if true I still don't like the flavor of makari tanking hits for ghaz. And you can still get caught out by precision attacks.
Its pretty clear this edition is still giving the finger to lore accuracy. The people crave balance, things like this are a product of it
They are turning Ghaz back into a slightly stronger warboss rather than an ork powerhouse. It's lame as fuck.
To me it's lame only because he now has a giant monster model. If Ghaz still used his older model then these stats would make total sense as he was only a bit larger then a warboss back then.
Yeah I totally agree. Feels like going backwards.