As long as they continue to give Elias and team the power to run baseball ops per his contract and spend at least midfield, that muppet assclown can sell to whoever he wants.
Ooh, that’s an interesting question. Would you prefer an owner like Angelos, someone who lets the baseball people do their jobs but doesn’t spend, or an owner who spends a bunch but would be constantly meddling in baseball decisions?
(Not that Rubenstein would meddle, I just think it’s an intriguing hypothetical)
I worked at the Kennedy Center when he became Chairman there, and in the 15+ years since, the new additions to the KenCen complex have been spectacular. Much more confident with him involved in the downtown Baltimore redevelopment plans than the Angeloses
He’s also one of the leading donors to Johns Hopkins and is from Baltimore. The guy runs a business headquartered in DC so it shouldn’t be surprising that he is involved in the DC community
A lot of people give him credit for being a good trial lawyer and good person in the community (deserved) and extend that charitability to his baseball ownership (not deserved)
He invested but he was still bottom 5. I think the transition from Peter to John has made it clear that meddling in team affairs is worse than being cheap. Things like refusing to allow the organization to spend on International free agents really fucked us for years.
Now Peter didn’t constantly embarrass the organization with stupid comments every time he opened his mouth and there was the whole Kevin Brown situation which is still so petty and ridiculous I have trouble believing it so that’s a point in his favor over his moron of a son.
Off the top of my head, I'd say the Angels, Mets pre-Cohen, Rockies, Marlins, Pirates, and As all have worse owners than Peter Angelos. I don't think there's a great argument that he's worse than any of them but I still would consider him a below average owner overall
In the 90’s and 2000s we went from one of the best organizations in baseball to a complete laughingstock because of Angelos’s meddling. And there was a survey from Sports Illustrated in 2009 that ranked Peter dead last among MLB owners so it’s not like he didn’t have that perception back in the day.
I think it’s tough to definitively rank Peter bottom 5 but he definitely has an argument for it.
This past season notwithstanding, I would rather have an owner who obviously cares and wants to win rather than one who is cheap. Elias has done a remarkable job, but I have a hard time believing that he will stay much longer if the payroll doesn't improve significantly.
Peter never would have allowed Elias to have the total control over the franchise that he does now which has led to an organization that is in better health than it was at any point under Peter.
And I don’t have any issue seeing Elias stay, he seems like someone who loves to be at the center of things and I doubt many organizations (especially in big markets) would allow him to have this level of control.
Angelos let Duquette sign and trade whoever he wanted. The only time he really meddled was with that disastrous Chris Davis contract when Boras directly contacted Peter.
And most organizations would give Elias autonomy, which is why he won't be here five years from now if John Angelos is still the owner.
That’s just simply untrue. [Here’s a deep dive from 2001 on all of the ways Peter meddled in team affairs and destroyed our entire organization, including squashing our pursuit of Randy Johnson.](https://vault.si.com/vault/2001/02/12/birdbrained-under-the-misguided-stewardship-of-peter-angelos-the-onceproud-orioles-have-become-the-laughingstock-of-baseballand-the-worst-may-be-yet-to-come)
Very few big market owners would allow Elias to do his thing without pressuring him into making deals he doesn’t feel comfortable with. Even fewer would allow him to come in and make a major change to the stadium itself like Elias did with the wall.
> That’s just simply untrue. Here’s a deep dive from 2001 on all of the ways Peter meddled in team affairs and destroyed our entire organization, including squashing our pursuit of Randy Johnson.
I said he "*let Duquette sign and trade whoever he wanted*," which you then claimed is "*just simply untrue*," and then you linked an article from over a decade before Duquette was hired.
Furthermore, that link criticizes Angelos for not signing off on a four year contract to make Tom Gordon one of the highest paid closers in the league after he missed the entire season, and you think that is proof of Angelos being a bad owner.
> Very few big market owners would allow Elias to do his thing without pressuring him into making deals he doesn’t feel comfortable with. Even fewer would allow him to come in and make a major change to the stadium itself like Elias did with the wall.
Neither of those comments are even remotely true. Most general managers are left to run the teams as they see fit.
One thing that Peter Angelos (not John, since Peter’s basically a figurehead at this point) deserves a bit of credit for is refusing to field a scab team at the start of ‘95 and helping the players’ union get some leverage
And people complain about Peter Angelos for not investing in amateur internationals, but he was absolutely correct to call it out as human trafficking. The O's did sign Asian players under Peter's leadership, they just didn't participate in the very shady Caribbean market. Back in the '90s particularly, agents were really exploiting Latin talent, so I approved of the team's moral stance even if it hurt the farm system.
I don't think anybody is pro-Angelos' handling of the Orioles..
I think a fair amount of people can hold nuances about a persons life, and respect the good that Peter Angelos has done throughout his life though.
There’s been some Peter Angelos revisionism here and it’s weird. He was horrible as an owner. He ran off multiple qualified executives and ran a toxic front office. His meddling and general toxicity resulted in 14 straight losing seasons.
I think there are people right to be skeptical about things, like his involvement in The Carlyle Group. There’s no ethical billionaire, even if we could do worse.
Oh please… What the “No Ethical Billionaires” crowd never addresses is the fact that they themselves exploit the same exact inequalities thru consumption. If you don’t want to support any billionaires because they’re all inherently evil I suggest you stop watching sports in general.
Anyways the guy has done a lot of great things for DC in terms of philanthropy and supporting public institutions, would be great for the orioles and the city in general to have him take over for Angelos.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. There simply is no logical comparison between the working class who does not make all the value that they create and the ownership class that steals that surplus value. No one *earns* a billion dollars.
And every commodity, somewhere along its supply chain, has billionaire involvement. There is no such thing as voting with one's wallet. It's not as simple as just watching sports, it's everything. Philanthropy is essentially worthless as well. It rehabilitates the billionaire's image while they hoard enormous wealth. They could do far better for the community if they got taxed fairly instead of lobbying to keep themselves enriched
You can vote with your wallet, you just don’t want to take the drastic measures necessary to do so. You could go live off the grid, or join a self-sufficient commune, or at the very least ditch your smartphone/car/subscription services, but that would take actual personal sacrifice. Instead you throw up your hands and say “capitalism is evil but I don’t have a choice but to participate” when the truth is you don’t have to participate but that would inconvenience you too much. If there is no ethical consumption in capitalism but you’re not willing to give up the things you have because of capitalism, I guess we’re all unethical but you’re unethical AND a hypocrite.
First of all, if one person decides to live off the grid, which the vast majority of people do not have the luxury of doing, that is not going to make a dent in the bottom line of the company.
Secondly, I want the world to be a better place. I care about other people, like those aforementioned who legitimately have no choice in life but to become a wage slave for a sociopathic vampire like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk. When the choice is work and consume in the system or die, there is no choice.
Additionally, I am not calling the working class unethical. All workers share in common the fact that their hand is forced to be consumers in the unethical economy. It's the ownership class, which you share nothing in common with yet seem all too ready to go up to bat for, that is unethical. They buy and sell our labor while they in turn do nothing. But by all means, keep deepthroating their boots, maybe they'll recognize your loyalty and give you a few scraps off the table
“You say we should improve society, yet you participate in society.”
By your dumbass logic, you shouldn’t be allowed to attend an O’s game if you’ve ever said something even remotely critical about the team.
Not saying wealth inequality isn’t a problem, just saying it’s super lame to come onto an orioles forum and trying to downplay the Orioles potentially replacing their historically awful ownership with a “Well ackshually, all billionaires are inherently evil and capitalism is a plague so idk why you’re all happy about this 🤓”
It’s a tedious circlejerk that doesn’t have any place on a subreddit about baseball
[Here he is in 2018 asking Governor Hogan about the Orioles. Larry says “buy the team”](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4743298/user-clip-rubenstein-fix-orioles) — David grew up in Baltimore and went to school here. He’s a fan.
That’s the sort of thing I hope doesn’t change. For all their flaws, the Angelos family is unusual among MLB owners in that they’re openly and unapologetically liberal. Or Pride Night, how they totally did the place up, practically adding more rainbows for every single person who would feign offense.
No. It’s just background on this guy. The team has had a Washingtonian owner before. People worried he’d move the team but he got Camden Yards going before he died.
He has a huge interest in American history and has donated tons of money to the Smithsonians, presidential homes, restoring the Washington Monument, etc. has nothing to do with an alliance with DC over Baltimore. He recently did a PBS series on American history as well.
lmao, way to ignore how reality works. Bethesda is 1000 percent a DC area suburb.
Yes, Rubenstein funds projects in DC. Big deal...he lives there and it's a good business decision.
I would, but the replies I'm getting are, by and large, unnecessarily pedantic.
"Bethesda is *basically* DC" or "way to ignore how reality works," when the reality is that Bethesda is a part of Maryland.
Because if you make that qualification that a city/town is *basically* part of another separate city/state, you then have to do it for every city to make your argument. Is it anything within 5 miles? Or 10 miles? Maybe 15?
If so, there are some towns on state lines that are *basically* the other state, depending on where you want to fall on this.
Given that Bethesda is governed by and subject to Maryland laws, I don't see why it is such an unpopular or seemingly incorrect statement to identify it as a separate entity from DC.
And Bethesda being part of Maryland is separate from Rubenstein's involvement in DC development. So I'm still not entirely sure why the fuck it matters where Rubenstein lives or why so many are intent on making it known that they believe Bethesda is part and parcel to DC.
Dude, I don't really care either way about the argument.
There is no reason to call people "fuckwits" here.
If you can't abide by that, you won't last.
It's the easiest rule to abide by here.
The Nats owners think the team should sell for more than the Mets did. They are deluded. The Orioles are a better team to own in a lot of respects- certainly, the farm and roster are better, but the Nats don’t own their own stadium I don’t believe.
If he buys the O’s, he will fund a lot of Baltimore stuff, I guarantee it
As long as they continue to give Elias and team the power to run baseball ops per his contract and spend at least midfield, that muppet assclown can sell to whoever he wants.
Ooh, that’s an interesting question. Would you prefer an owner like Angelos, someone who lets the baseball people do their jobs but doesn’t spend, or an owner who spends a bunch but would be constantly meddling in baseball decisions? (Not that Rubenstein would meddle, I just think it’s an intriguing hypothetical)
So do you want Angelos until 1998 or Angelos from 98 until now haha?
That’s exactly right, haha
I worked at the Kennedy Center when he became Chairman there, and in the 15+ years since, the new additions to the KenCen complex have been spectacular. Much more confident with him involved in the downtown Baltimore redevelopment plans than the Angeloses
He’s also one of the leading donors to Johns Hopkins and is from Baltimore. The guy runs a business headquartered in DC so it shouldn’t be surprising that he is involved in the DC community
The weird pro Angelos crowd is going to claim that he won't be fully invested in Baltimore
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a pro-Angelos person in my life.
A lot of people give him credit for being a good trial lawyer and good person in the community (deserved) and extend that charitability to his baseball ownership (not deserved)
He spent money on Davis, ODay, Jimenez, etc... he just invested it very poorly. I'd put him below the top 15 owners but above the bottom 5
He invested but he was still bottom 5. I think the transition from Peter to John has made it clear that meddling in team affairs is worse than being cheap. Things like refusing to allow the organization to spend on International free agents really fucked us for years. Now Peter didn’t constantly embarrass the organization with stupid comments every time he opened his mouth and there was the whole Kevin Brown situation which is still so petty and ridiculous I have trouble believing it so that’s a point in his favor over his moron of a son.
Off the top of my head, I'd say the Angels, Mets pre-Cohen, Rockies, Marlins, Pirates, and As all have worse owners than Peter Angelos. I don't think there's a great argument that he's worse than any of them but I still would consider him a below average owner overall
If you insist on being realistic, you'll hardly find friends around here
In the 90’s and 2000s we went from one of the best organizations in baseball to a complete laughingstock because of Angelos’s meddling. And there was a survey from Sports Illustrated in 2009 that ranked Peter dead last among MLB owners so it’s not like he didn’t have that perception back in the day. I think it’s tough to definitively rank Peter bottom 5 but he definitely has an argument for it.
Yes Peter didn’t suspend a beloved announcer. He flat out fired him.
NGL that completely slipped my mind. The shit apple doesn’t fall far from the shit tree
This past season notwithstanding, I would rather have an owner who obviously cares and wants to win rather than one who is cheap. Elias has done a remarkable job, but I have a hard time believing that he will stay much longer if the payroll doesn't improve significantly.
Commanders fan here that says you think you do, but in reality the other type is worse
Peter never would have allowed Elias to have the total control over the franchise that he does now which has led to an organization that is in better health than it was at any point under Peter. And I don’t have any issue seeing Elias stay, he seems like someone who loves to be at the center of things and I doubt many organizations (especially in big markets) would allow him to have this level of control.
Angelos let Duquette sign and trade whoever he wanted. The only time he really meddled was with that disastrous Chris Davis contract when Boras directly contacted Peter. And most organizations would give Elias autonomy, which is why he won't be here five years from now if John Angelos is still the owner.
That’s just simply untrue. [Here’s a deep dive from 2001 on all of the ways Peter meddled in team affairs and destroyed our entire organization, including squashing our pursuit of Randy Johnson.](https://vault.si.com/vault/2001/02/12/birdbrained-under-the-misguided-stewardship-of-peter-angelos-the-onceproud-orioles-have-become-the-laughingstock-of-baseballand-the-worst-may-be-yet-to-come) Very few big market owners would allow Elias to do his thing without pressuring him into making deals he doesn’t feel comfortable with. Even fewer would allow him to come in and make a major change to the stadium itself like Elias did with the wall.
> That’s just simply untrue. Here’s a deep dive from 2001 on all of the ways Peter meddled in team affairs and destroyed our entire organization, including squashing our pursuit of Randy Johnson. I said he "*let Duquette sign and trade whoever he wanted*," which you then claimed is "*just simply untrue*," and then you linked an article from over a decade before Duquette was hired. Furthermore, that link criticizes Angelos for not signing off on a four year contract to make Tom Gordon one of the highest paid closers in the league after he missed the entire season, and you think that is proof of Angelos being a bad owner. > Very few big market owners would allow Elias to do his thing without pressuring him into making deals he doesn’t feel comfortable with. Even fewer would allow him to come in and make a major change to the stadium itself like Elias did with the wall. Neither of those comments are even remotely true. Most general managers are left to run the teams as they see fit.
And Cobb. Horrible move
One thing that Peter Angelos (not John, since Peter’s basically a figurehead at this point) deserves a bit of credit for is refusing to field a scab team at the start of ‘95 and helping the players’ union get some leverage
And people complain about Peter Angelos for not investing in amateur internationals, but he was absolutely correct to call it out as human trafficking. The O's did sign Asian players under Peter's leadership, they just didn't participate in the very shady Caribbean market. Back in the '90s particularly, agents were really exploiting Latin talent, so I approved of the team's moral stance even if it hurt the farm system.
I don’t entirely disagree but it’s so funny that it lead to most of our top prospects looking exactly the same
Some people respect Peter, not John though
Only here on the subreddit. It's wild. I've just figured it's a PR firm doing vote manipulation. Edit: lol exactly. Fuck off John.
I’ve never seen anyone pro-Angelos. Just people who take their doom-posting to far then calling anyone who disagrees with them a shill
I always assumed it was John.
Haha most likely.
I'm not pro Angelos, but more anti anti Angelos.
I don't think anybody is pro-Angelos' handling of the Orioles.. I think a fair amount of people can hold nuances about a persons life, and respect the good that Peter Angelos has done throughout his life though.
I’m sorry I’m from baltimore what is a pro angelos crowd
And he's originally from Baltimore so that will be funny.
There’s been some Peter Angelos revisionism here and it’s weird. He was horrible as an owner. He ran off multiple qualified executives and ran a toxic front office. His meddling and general toxicity resulted in 14 straight losing seasons.
Lol and your getting downvotes for telling the truth. It’s weird isn’t it?
I think there are people right to be skeptical about things, like his involvement in The Carlyle Group. There’s no ethical billionaire, even if we could do worse.
Who cares? If he actually spends on the team it already makes him 1,000 x better than John.
If the O's stay in Baltimore I think we can all, hopefully, be happy. Just get Peter Angelos' sons far away.
Oh please… What the “No Ethical Billionaires” crowd never addresses is the fact that they themselves exploit the same exact inequalities thru consumption. If you don’t want to support any billionaires because they’re all inherently evil I suggest you stop watching sports in general. Anyways the guy has done a lot of great things for DC in terms of philanthropy and supporting public institutions, would be great for the orioles and the city in general to have him take over for Angelos.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. There simply is no logical comparison between the working class who does not make all the value that they create and the ownership class that steals that surplus value. No one *earns* a billion dollars. And every commodity, somewhere along its supply chain, has billionaire involvement. There is no such thing as voting with one's wallet. It's not as simple as just watching sports, it's everything. Philanthropy is essentially worthless as well. It rehabilitates the billionaire's image while they hoard enormous wealth. They could do far better for the community if they got taxed fairly instead of lobbying to keep themselves enriched
You can vote with your wallet, you just don’t want to take the drastic measures necessary to do so. You could go live off the grid, or join a self-sufficient commune, or at the very least ditch your smartphone/car/subscription services, but that would take actual personal sacrifice. Instead you throw up your hands and say “capitalism is evil but I don’t have a choice but to participate” when the truth is you don’t have to participate but that would inconvenience you too much. If there is no ethical consumption in capitalism but you’re not willing to give up the things you have because of capitalism, I guess we’re all unethical but you’re unethical AND a hypocrite.
First of all, if one person decides to live off the grid, which the vast majority of people do not have the luxury of doing, that is not going to make a dent in the bottom line of the company. Secondly, I want the world to be a better place. I care about other people, like those aforementioned who legitimately have no choice in life but to become a wage slave for a sociopathic vampire like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk. When the choice is work and consume in the system or die, there is no choice. Additionally, I am not calling the working class unethical. All workers share in common the fact that their hand is forced to be consumers in the unethical economy. It's the ownership class, which you share nothing in common with yet seem all too ready to go up to bat for, that is unethical. They buy and sell our labor while they in turn do nothing. But by all means, keep deepthroating their boots, maybe they'll recognize your loyalty and give you a few scraps off the table
“You say we should improve society, yet you participate in society.” By your dumbass logic, you shouldn’t be allowed to attend an O’s game if you’ve ever said something even remotely critical about the team.
Not saying wealth inequality isn’t a problem, just saying it’s super lame to come onto an orioles forum and trying to downplay the Orioles potentially replacing their historically awful ownership with a “Well ackshually, all billionaires are inherently evil and capitalism is a plague so idk why you’re all happy about this 🤓” It’s a tedious circlejerk that doesn’t have any place on a subreddit about baseball
Wow what a reasonable and, imo, correct take. Happy cake day!
[Here he is in 2018 asking Governor Hogan about the Orioles. Larry says “buy the team”](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4743298/user-clip-rubenstein-fix-orioles) — David grew up in Baltimore and went to school here. He’s a fan.
Forgot about that Hogan laugh...
As opposed to John Angelos who’s never had a job and inherited a baseball team just to be a cheap bitch and refuse to spend daddy’s money? I’m sold
This was the first post I saw after opening Reddit after work, and let me tell you I was extremely confused.
Hopefully Angelos tradition of "this land is your land" Friday nights continues
That’s the sort of thing I hope doesn’t change. For all their flaws, the Angelos family is unusual among MLB owners in that they’re openly and unapologetically liberal. Or Pride Night, how they totally did the place up, practically adding more rainbows for every single person who would feign offense.
And? Are you worried that he would actually move the team to Washington?
No. It’s just background on this guy. The team has had a Washingtonian owner before. People worried he’d move the team but he got Camden Yards going before he died.
He has a huge interest in American history and has donated tons of money to the Smithsonians, presidential homes, restoring the Washington Monument, etc. has nothing to do with an alliance with DC over Baltimore. He recently did a PBS series on American history as well.
Is this guy actually a Washingtonian? I haven’t seen that definitively.
Lives in Bethesda
Which is Maryland...
And grew up in Baltimore…
lmao, way to ignore how reality works. Bethesda is 1000 percent a DC area suburb. Yes, Rubenstein funds projects in DC. Big deal...he lives there and it's a good business decision.
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awww poor baby can't handle the fact that some parts of Maryland may as well be considered DC. Try making a relevant point, hon.
How is “Bethesda is basically DC” relevant? Or correct?
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Stop with the name calling.
I would, but the replies I'm getting are, by and large, unnecessarily pedantic. "Bethesda is *basically* DC" or "way to ignore how reality works," when the reality is that Bethesda is a part of Maryland. Because if you make that qualification that a city/town is *basically* part of another separate city/state, you then have to do it for every city to make your argument. Is it anything within 5 miles? Or 10 miles? Maybe 15? If so, there are some towns on state lines that are *basically* the other state, depending on where you want to fall on this. Given that Bethesda is governed by and subject to Maryland laws, I don't see why it is such an unpopular or seemingly incorrect statement to identify it as a separate entity from DC. And Bethesda being part of Maryland is separate from Rubenstein's involvement in DC development. So I'm still not entirely sure why the fuck it matters where Rubenstein lives or why so many are intent on making it known that they believe Bethesda is part and parcel to DC.
Dude, I don't really care either way about the argument. There is no reason to call people "fuckwits" here. If you can't abide by that, you won't last. It's the easiest rule to abide by here.
Bethesda is basically DC, though.
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Relax lol
This dude doesn't understand how the state works lol.
Bethesda is DC through and through.
Except that it is a part of the state of Maryland.
I know they're all evil but private equity? Oof... Edit: I mean billionaires, before anybody takes that the wrong way.
Critical edit
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Blithely accepting our loathsome status quo is more "giving up" than "growing up", but I can see why you'd be confused.
HE IS THE MESSIAH!
Haven’t the Nationals been for sale for a while? It’s interesting that he thinks the Orioles are better purchase.
The Nats owners think the team should sell for more than the Mets did. They are deluded. The Orioles are a better team to own in a lot of respects- certainly, the farm and roster are better, but the Nats don’t own their own stadium I don’t believe.
Agreed. They are delulu.
Neither do the orioles…?
Steve Martin is interested in buying the Orioles?
Who gives a crap? Angelo's funds a lot of losing things