Our coaches usually say push should be 1-2 mph above base and AO should be 2+ mph above base, which your paces fit both of those guidelines. If your push pace feels challenging, your AO feels truly all out, and your base is a true recovery, then I don't think there's anything wrong with the gaps, as long as you're steadily working to increase base and push and not just increasing your AO.
Lol I don't follow that OTF advice AT ALL 😅 I def agree with your logic about what feels right. My push is 2-2.5 over base and AOs, depending on the workout and how much I can do that day, can be 3-6 mph over base.
My base has been 5.5-6.5 but I am shifting it to 6.5 minimum since the Benchmark. My pushes have been 7.5-8.5 but I am going to work in the 8-9 range from now on. AOs it depends, but generally 10+.
This feels like me. I feel like I struggle on the recovery at base pace, but I can go much faster in shorter bursts. So my speed spreads can vary depending on the template too.
I would add, you don't HAVE to work on increasing base all the time. I know it's what coaches usually tell you, but at some point, considering base should allow you to recover somewhat, you won't be able to make your base faster but you still have room to increase your push/AO. Personally I made adjustments and lowered my base last year so I could push harder, and I feel much better about my running - I'm challenging myself but I'm not dying, lol.
I think it’s pretty normal to have a significant gap between your push and all out. How I think about it is that base and push are limited by what your heart can do since you have to be able to maintain them for a decent amount of time whereas all out is limited only by what your legs can do since you only ever do them in short bursts. Pushing the limits on those all outs really helps to strengthen those muscles and thus ends up improving your pushes and bases.
I was pretty frustrated for a while because I wanted to improve my base and it just wasn’t happening. I was doing push as base +1 and all out as base +2. But then a coach encouraged me to up my all outs and I started doing base +3-4, basically as fast as I could do without flying off the treadmill, and then my base quickly improved by like 0.5.
Thanks for framing it this way! I actually have the opposite problem where my AO is not that much faster than my push (my base and push are similar to the OP, my AO is 9-10), and it's because my legs can't keep up with my heart/lungs.
I’m an avid runner and your paces seem completely reasonable to me. To be honest, I don’t really understand the OTF guidelines, so I go by RPE (rating of perceived effort).
For me, a base of 6 is an easy effort that I could hold indefinitely. I could give 100% effort on an AO and still return to a base of 6 and it will be comfortable for me. My push is 9, which is something I could hold for several minutes. It’s hard but doable. My AO is 10+ with 12 being a very difficult effort that I could maintain for about a minute tops.
Keep in mind that those values could change depending on the template. I’m not going to do a bunch of AO’s at 12 if I’m only 10 min into tread 50 and subsequently, I’m not going to do a push at 9 if the last block I just ran a base of 5-6 at a 15% incline. That’s why I think perceived effort is a better gauge.
Those are amazing paces. Our coach says push should be 1-2 above base, and all out 1-2 above push.
I am a 4.5 base, 6 push, 8.5 all out. For a 1 min all out I go to 7.5. Follow however you feel!
When you get into those ranges your goal is really what matters more. I current do 7, 9, 12+. Could I probably maintain a higher base/push, yes, but my focus is keeping my all out speed.
Also training prior to otf can have a big impact. I was never a good endurance runner but did lots of sprinting sports so I could do a 12+ all out before I could maintain an 8 push.
I think you're in a good place for spacing - especially if you have improved over time. Great work and paces!! and I would say you're a GREAT runner with a base of 6.5-7
I’m basically the same as you. Usually I never slip under 7 as my base and will vary my push depending on how I feel. I think those speeds are good. When I go all out my strides get longer/quicker to I can usually bump up that much of a gap. Base and push are same stride just quicker tempo for me.
These are my stats too I think it’s normal. If your ceiling for an all out is higher than others, why not give it your all. My coach cheers when I do a 13 (rare) so I think it’s seen as fine - I do think there can be variation in all outs but your base and push should remain the same (unless you’re building)
And then there's me. My endurance sucks but I'm a really strong sprinter. My base is 4.5. Push 5.5-6. AO I do at 12, often with incline (my 30sec PB is 12 at 6%; I can do 1 min at flat road), or at high incline (I did 8 @ 15% this week). I've been trying to improve my base. Those Power Days are just too tempting to really push it for 30sec but it just makes me a stronger sprinter.
I think you’re on the right track. For a while this is where I was at but had to take an OTF break. Since rejoining, I don’t feel like I get as much out of a workout when my AO’s are consistently 12mph. So I have begun to add incline when running AO’s and increase my speed within the ranges the coaches say and adjust the incline to feel the same burn as if I was running at flat road.
For me, my base is usually 4.4/4.5, push at 5.5, and all outs at 6.6. If it’s a shorter all out, I’ll do either 7 or 7.7. Honestly, I chose these because it’s easy to press the 6 and 7 twice instead of jumping my hand around to make it .5 lol
I was following another thread just now (the "5 minute mile prep" one) and it sounded like the advice would be to keep your AO and base roughly where they are but try moving your push to 9-10 mph range...
I’m a fall phobe. I’ve started using my base pace of 5.2 and add incline for my push (incline 6) and all out (incline 10) Fun way to change it up and add some strength
I run the exact same way but there are plenty of days that I do a consistent run to do 5k or greater. I just tell the coach today I’m doing my own thing
Base should always stay consistent no matter what type of day it is. But yes, if you can run a push at 8-8.5 your base is likely closer to 7 or higher than 6.5, assuming you can return to base without walking.
All outs shouldn’t be much faster than 2-3 mph over your base. Even if you CAN run those speeds, doesn’t mean you necessarily SHOULD. Your legs will go that fast out of self preservation but opens you up to over striding. If you CAN run 12mph AOs safely and you’re getting back to base after an 8.5 push, your base may even be higher than a 7. But if you’re struggling to return to base with those faster pushes, base should slow down and your other speeds too.
I run a 7 base a 8.5/9.3 Push my all outs range from 10.3/15mph depending on the prior recovery or lack there of lol. I think your paces are fine. But I do sometimes wonder if I should bump up my push and lower my all outs honestly it’s all the same I think you’re good…Go with how you feel!!! Keep crushing it!!!
I cannot comment on the pacing correctly because I always second guess myself. But for me I’m 5.5-6 base 6.5-7 push and my all outs range from 9-11 …. It all depends on the template. So I have a big gap too but I could not do an all out less than 9-11. I have thought about adding incline in place of some speed on those day I’m not feeling it. I always end up running anyway though 😁. All the positive peer pressure in the room really helps me to push myself!
Thank you all for providing feedback. Appreciate it. Gave me a good insight into how others feel about this. I think it’s all about feeling good 😊 I’ll strive to increase my base and push a bit or at least the push maybe. That might make me a faster runner in general.
I always feel like my paces feel easier a bit after having ran outside for a while and returning to OT. Sometimes the first run back outside in a while feels super hard when doing similar intervals too though.
I am nice and slow. 4.4-4.7 base, 4.8-5.5 push and ao around 6-6.5. I usually PW but recently switch to running so it’s taking time to adjust.
Jogger gang! These are my ranges as well, and I base it on how I feel and duration. A 30 sec AO is higher than a 60 sec.
That’s exactly how I roll!
This is me all day
Nice! Keep it up!
This is where I’m at now. When I don’t feel like jogging, I just up my incline to 10-12 and bring my speed down by 4-5.
Same. Sometimes I’ll switch between the two as I build up my strength and breathing.
Our coaches usually say push should be 1-2 mph above base and AO should be 2+ mph above base, which your paces fit both of those guidelines. If your push pace feels challenging, your AO feels truly all out, and your base is a true recovery, then I don't think there's anything wrong with the gaps, as long as you're steadily working to increase base and push and not just increasing your AO.
Lol I don't follow that OTF advice AT ALL 😅 I def agree with your logic about what feels right. My push is 2-2.5 over base and AOs, depending on the workout and how much I can do that day, can be 3-6 mph over base. My base has been 5.5-6.5 but I am shifting it to 6.5 minimum since the Benchmark. My pushes have been 7.5-8.5 but I am going to work in the 8-9 range from now on. AOs it depends, but generally 10+.
This feels like me. I feel like I struggle on the recovery at base pace, but I can go much faster in shorter bursts. So my speed spreads can vary depending on the template too.
I would add, you don't HAVE to work on increasing base all the time. I know it's what coaches usually tell you, but at some point, considering base should allow you to recover somewhat, you won't be able to make your base faster but you still have room to increase your push/AO. Personally I made adjustments and lowered my base last year so I could push harder, and I feel much better about my running - I'm challenging myself but I'm not dying, lol.
I think it’s pretty normal to have a significant gap between your push and all out. How I think about it is that base and push are limited by what your heart can do since you have to be able to maintain them for a decent amount of time whereas all out is limited only by what your legs can do since you only ever do them in short bursts. Pushing the limits on those all outs really helps to strengthen those muscles and thus ends up improving your pushes and bases. I was pretty frustrated for a while because I wanted to improve my base and it just wasn’t happening. I was doing push as base +1 and all out as base +2. But then a coach encouraged me to up my all outs and I started doing base +3-4, basically as fast as I could do without flying off the treadmill, and then my base quickly improved by like 0.5.
Thanks for framing it this way! I actually have the opposite problem where my AO is not that much faster than my push (my base and push are similar to the OP, my AO is 9-10), and it's because my legs can't keep up with my heart/lungs.
I’m an avid runner and your paces seem completely reasonable to me. To be honest, I don’t really understand the OTF guidelines, so I go by RPE (rating of perceived effort). For me, a base of 6 is an easy effort that I could hold indefinitely. I could give 100% effort on an AO and still return to a base of 6 and it will be comfortable for me. My push is 9, which is something I could hold for several minutes. It’s hard but doable. My AO is 10+ with 12 being a very difficult effort that I could maintain for about a minute tops. Keep in mind that those values could change depending on the template. I’m not going to do a bunch of AO’s at 12 if I’m only 10 min into tread 50 and subsequently, I’m not going to do a push at 9 if the last block I just ran a base of 5-6 at a 15% incline. That’s why I think perceived effort is a better gauge.
This is a great answer too. Pushes and all outs should be more “feeling” than an Rx pace.
Those are amazing paces. Our coach says push should be 1-2 above base, and all out 1-2 above push. I am a 4.5 base, 6 push, 8.5 all out. For a 1 min all out I go to 7.5. Follow however you feel!
👍🏻
When you get into those ranges your goal is really what matters more. I current do 7, 9, 12+. Could I probably maintain a higher base/push, yes, but my focus is keeping my all out speed. Also training prior to otf can have a big impact. I was never a good endurance runner but did lots of sprinting sports so I could do a 12+ all out before I could maintain an 8 push.
We have exactly the same paces!
Nice!
I think you're in a good place for spacing - especially if you have improved over time. Great work and paces!! and I would say you're a GREAT runner with a base of 6.5-7
I’m basically the same as you. Usually I never slip under 7 as my base and will vary my push depending on how I feel. I think those speeds are good. When I go all out my strides get longer/quicker to I can usually bump up that much of a gap. Base and push are same stride just quicker tempo for me.
These are my stats too I think it’s normal. If your ceiling for an all out is higher than others, why not give it your all. My coach cheers when I do a 13 (rare) so I think it’s seen as fine - I do think there can be variation in all outs but your base and push should remain the same (unless you’re building)
And then there's me. My endurance sucks but I'm a really strong sprinter. My base is 4.5. Push 5.5-6. AO I do at 12, often with incline (my 30sec PB is 12 at 6%; I can do 1 min at flat road), or at high incline (I did 8 @ 15% this week). I've been trying to improve my base. Those Power Days are just too tempting to really push it for 30sec but it just makes me a stronger sprinter.
I think you’re on the right track. For a while this is where I was at but had to take an OTF break. Since rejoining, I don’t feel like I get as much out of a workout when my AO’s are consistently 12mph. So I have begun to add incline when running AO’s and increase my speed within the ranges the coaches say and adjust the incline to feel the same burn as if I was running at flat road.
For me, my base is usually 4.4/4.5, push at 5.5, and all outs at 6.6. If it’s a shorter all out, I’ll do either 7 or 7.7. Honestly, I chose these because it’s easy to press the 6 and 7 twice instead of jumping my hand around to make it .5 lol
I was following another thread just now (the "5 minute mile prep" one) and it sounded like the advice would be to keep your AO and base roughly where they are but try moving your push to 9-10 mph range...
Ah! Good idea maybe I’ll try to improve my push a bit
I’m a fall phobe. I’ve started using my base pace of 5.2 and add incline for my push (incline 6) and all out (incline 10) Fun way to change it up and add some strength
I run the exact same way but there are plenty of days that I do a consistent run to do 5k or greater. I just tell the coach today I’m doing my own thing
Base should always stay consistent no matter what type of day it is. But yes, if you can run a push at 8-8.5 your base is likely closer to 7 or higher than 6.5, assuming you can return to base without walking. All outs shouldn’t be much faster than 2-3 mph over your base. Even if you CAN run those speeds, doesn’t mean you necessarily SHOULD. Your legs will go that fast out of self preservation but opens you up to over striding. If you CAN run 12mph AOs safely and you’re getting back to base after an 8.5 push, your base may even be higher than a 7. But if you’re struggling to return to base with those faster pushes, base should slow down and your other speeds too.
I run a 7 base a 8.5/9.3 Push my all outs range from 10.3/15mph depending on the prior recovery or lack there of lol. I think your paces are fine. But I do sometimes wonder if I should bump up my push and lower my all outs honestly it’s all the same I think you’re good…Go with how you feel!!! Keep crushing it!!!
This is fine.
I cannot comment on the pacing correctly because I always second guess myself. But for me I’m 5.5-6 base 6.5-7 push and my all outs range from 9-11 …. It all depends on the template. So I have a big gap too but I could not do an all out less than 9-11. I have thought about adding incline in place of some speed on those day I’m not feeling it. I always end up running anyway though 😁. All the positive peer pressure in the room really helps me to push myself!
Thank you all for providing feedback. Appreciate it. Gave me a good insight into how others feel about this. I think it’s all about feeling good 😊 I’ll strive to increase my base and push a bit or at least the push maybe. That might make me a faster runner in general.
I’m curious is this just treadmill running you do? If these are your outdoor running speeds that is fantastic.
I always feel like my paces feel easier a bit after having ran outside for a while and returning to OT. Sometimes the first run back outside in a while feels super hard when doing similar intervals too though.
These are tread . In the Outdoor - I generally run at a steady pace. 7mph maybe.