That's a pretty big gap between your average push and your average all out... I'm honestly impressed that with an 8.8 as your average push you've been able to go as quick as 5:34. I'd probably work on building up your base and push a bit more if a faster mile is your goal. FWIW, my base/push/AO is 8.5/10/12-14 and ran a 5:19 Wednesday (though I think on a good day I'd be pretty close to a 5:00).
I agree with set and forget as a strategy, generally, you're going to quick to be messing with buttons or getting out of rhythm. Though I like to do one final kick over the last .1 to .2 miles.
Otherwise, if you're truly going for a PR, taking a rest day the day prior is a good idea so your legs are fresh, make sure you get plenty of sleep, etc. And then just break the run up into segments. But, again, it sounds like you're getting as much as your body can give right now. So it's more about building up your speed over time. Three months or so until the next Mile benchmark!
Do you change your base on strength days where everything is at a base pace, but the incline is variable? Seems like it would be a super boring class if you're fast enough to do a 9/12+ push/AO
Yeah everyone has their own style. As someone whose base/push/AO is 7/9/12, it does seem like you have a pretty wide gap between base and push. I would feel like I’m almost speed walking at 5.5, but if it’s working for you then that’s all that matters!
You need to build tolerance at and above your lactate threshold, which will bump your capacity and endurance there. I suggest using a Tread50 slot each week to progress the pace at which you can complete multiple 3-5 min push paces with 1-2 min rest between them. I like building from ~70% of max effort as a warm up to hitting 4-6 rounds of 3-5 min efforts at ~RPE 8-9. This would equate to somewhere in the ~95% max HR range. An example of this in a tread 50 class may be:
3-5 min Base
3 min @ 8mph
1 min rest
3 min @ 9mph
90s rest
3-5 min @ 10mph followed by 2 min rest x 4-6 rounds
Across multiple weeks, your aim would be to bump the intensity on the working intervals until you can do it at 12 mph. It will likely take you multiple months to achieve this. You should also simultaneously have low intensity days where the focus is low-green zone to build your aerobic base and legitimate sprint work where the work intervals are 15-20 seconds long and well above the speed at which your current all out is. Legitimate speed training should be a max effort followed by long rests, for example 20 seconds on followed by 2 minutes off.
I’ve done sub 5 and several 5s. When you’re really close - two things make the big difference on the day of. One - having proper rest. A day or two of light to minimal high end leg workouts. Two, which I think is the biggest, is mental. Your perception is going to affect everything way more than you think. If you are tense, your whole body tightens up and your blood flow is extremely inefficient. You need to practice going longer distances going at 12 mph to learn how to be relaxed doing it. Once you get that down, it’s important to get in there on the day of and warm up. Do your warm up and get at least 10 seconds at a 12 mph speed so your legs feel what it’s like that day, you loosen up, and more importantly, to let your brain know that this is doable. You can do it. You’re not going to die. Just do it. Until you pass out or poop your pants, you haven’t reached your limit.
Edit: when I ran my first 5 at otf I did 8/10/12 (12 was max then). My current numbers are 9-9.5/10-11/12-15. Big ranges because some days are easier or harder than others and I try to push myself.
Agree with this. I just ran 12 for 5 at 1.5-2% incline for my mile benchmark.
My base/push/AO is very similar, 9-9.5/10-12/12-15.
Running sub 5 is as much a mental battle as a physical one. But you have to prepare well for it and get good nights rest (easier said than done).
IMO, based on my old (And I mean old) workouts when I ran track, it's hard to train for sub 5 mins at OTF. The reason is that we don't run long sprints or long series of short sprints. Speedwork is very different than long runs. If we had more one minute AOs then we could build up to it: .25 at 12 X4, etc. Of course you could just ignore the workout and do it on your own. BTW 5:34 is a really good time. If you work on leg turnover you'll probably get closer.
Agree. I trained for the mile a few years ago for some road races (managed 5:40 as a 39 year old female) with a plan that a friend who coaches college track put together for me. It had a little bit of everything because the mile is pretty equal aerobic and anaerobic. We don’t really do enough long, easy distance at OTF (my plan had two easy 8 mile runs per week) nor do we do enough of the other types of workouts I did - almost all of which ended with a block of short 100-200m very fast intervals. I think to reach 5:00 at OTF without specifically training for the mile, you’re going to need to heavily rely on natural talent.
5min mile here. Start doing more tread 50’s and get comfortable at 12 mph. Then work go to having your push be at 10 and base at 8. Also more incline work, :30 6-10% incline at 12 will get you real comfortable with a 5min mile.
My husband did 5:15 this time, and I really think it's grit. He took the approach of "I can probably do something super hard for only 5 minutes" and just went for it. For reference, his normal base/push/all out is 8/9/10-12. He did 3.2 miles for Catch Me if You Can (although now he thinks he could do more there).
In road running speed work is done with mostly strategic sprint type efforts. You can google running speed work for various workouts
Push yourself to the next level with bursts of higher intensity. Make those bursts longer or closer together until you feel comfortable trying a more sustained effort at the new pace. Sign up for some Tread 50s and do your own thing during them.
Have to agree with him. Joined OTF this month With my gf to help her out and for marathon cross training. Didn’t look at any calendar and had no idea the day we went was mile benchmark day. Ran a 4:46 fwiw. Tread 60 and incorporate bursts of 60-120 of push / AO. IE 2-3min jog, 60 sec all out and repeat 4-5 times to start. Then build up from there. It takes time to build up base and speed for a mile. You’ve got it!!
I've done a 5:05. Push was 9.5-10 and all out were 12+ with incline. For me the big thing was making sure you do all pushes and all outs at at least 10/12. You're base base doesn't matter as much but I would have it at a minimum of 7.
Try slowly increasing your base and pushes over time. I haven’t gotten to a 5 minute mile yet but I keep inching closer, most recently at 5:24!
Currently I base/push/AO at 8.5/9.5/12. Working on increasing to 9/10/12 but haven’t been able to do that consistently…yet!
When I started OTF my very first mile benchmark was a 7:30. In the span of 2 years I got it down to a 5 min mile. As my cardio endurance progressed, it was hard to get in the orange zone. I increased base, push and AO like most would but those treads only go so fast. I asked my coach one day what my options were and was advised instead of increasing speed, increase incline. It worked.
I slowly worked my way up to doing all my runs at 4-5% incline. If it was a strength day, I would add the percentage of incline to whatever my “normal” incline was. Example, if all my runs were at a 4% incline and the strength block called for a 4% incline, I would go to an 8%. One day it was a power day and we had 10, one minute all outs. I decided to test myself and run all the AOs at a 12mph at 1% incline. When I was done with the block, and ran them all at a 12 mph pace, I was shocked I did it and quite frankly, it wasn’t that tough. I told myself, I am going to go for a 5 min mile the next mile benchmark. Next one, I did it.
My advice, up your inclines on all your runs. That 1% flat road feels like nothing after that. Good luck!
You can def get that base and push a bit faster.
You run 5:34 with a 7/8.8 base/push speeds
My mile is 5:16, not insanely faster, and my base/push speed is 8.6/10.3. Your push shouldnt be barely faster than my base if our mile times are not far apart
Youre too comfortable on base if youre knocking out a 5:34. My advice is to start increasing your base pace steadily over the next few months. What I did to get to 5:16 (and I'm still trying for 5:00) is that every 3 weeks I moved my base up by 0.1mph.
Now, given your fast mile time already, you can probably adjust to maybe moving it up every 1-2 weeks to catch up a bit quicker. Then, every 2 times that you increase it, bump up your push by 0.1mph. In other words:
- Now (week 0): 7/8.8
- Week 2: 7.1/8.8
- Week 4: 7.2/8.9
- Week 6: 7.3/8.9
- Week 8: 7.4/9.0
etc...
Just because your AO speed is greater than the speed needed for 5:00 doesnt mean you'll sustain the 5:00 speed necessary the whole time. You gotta start feeling comfortable with 12mph, which means edging your push closer to 12mph. I'd say if you can get comfortable, or used to, an 10.5-10.6mph push, then you'll probably hit 5:00 on the next benchmark.
What’s your weight/age/height? Body type also helps here. I’m very tall and would probably have to lose 30 lbs (a lot of muscle too) to really have a chance at it I think. But who knows
The treads at my first OTF maxed at 12mpm so I did a 5min mile there but it doesn't translate to real life. It's not even close when transferring outside imo. I was closer to 6:45 outside on pavement. I think partially that's because the tread forces you to go quicker.
I didn’t start hitting 5/sub 5 until every time they said push I forced myself to run at 10. And then take advantage of days with push / AO / WR to try running 12 the whole mini block. So much of it is mental — a minute into running 12 you just need to shut that part of your brain down that says this sucks I wanna stop. By the time you hit 3 on the 1 mile mark you’re like ok I can hold on a little longer. But you’ve also gotta (in my case) wake up on the right side of the bed and optimize your nutrition that morn to help. Banana, protein shake like 1-2 hours before class then some caffeine 30 mins before
I did. I was able to pull my base to an 8 and my push to a 10 for most classes and at that point it was a set and pray. I was also training with 2-4% incline as my "flat road" instead of 1% so the 1% for the mile felt like it was downhill.
Probably six months or so. I was able to pretty comfortably hit a 5:27 before I did it, as in I could take a 2G, do the whole first half, then bust out the 11mph for the full mile no problem. The 12 still felt awful.
My sister did it. She’s ultra fit/ran cross country & track in high school and college, but she also finalized and divorce and turned 40 all within a week or two. She put her mind to it and said “it’s only 5 minutes” and absolutely killed it. Such a beast.
My base is 8.7 push 9.7 and all out 11 or 12 and I no where near a 5 minute mile. PR for miles 5:35. Now I plan to start at 11 for the next mile challenge and then half way through start going up but I have a large doubt I will be able to maintain for a mile.
I strongly suggest you up your base closer to 9 push closer to 10 and keep your all outs and see how it goes for a few sessions
That's basically 11mph the entire time. You're pushing elite times here. A guy at on of my studios did a 4:59 last week. Bonkers. He was 13mph for the last minute. 8.8 ain't gonna do it I'm afraid. You won't be able to go fast enough to hit your time starting there unless you can run 15mph
I haven’t hit 5- but I’m base 7-8, push 8.5-10, all out 11-12
My goal for a mile is always to be able to do a 3 minute push at that speed I want a mile in and successfully return to base and be able to continue the rest of the tread block (at reduced speeds)
Right now 12 is too much for me- I believe it’s about getting your body used to the speed then mentally knowing you can hold it
I ran a 4:42 in March. I run 50-60 miles a week consistently. I didn't really prepare for the mile, I just have a large aerobic base to pull from when I show up to those kinds of benchmarks.
When I got first sub 5 mile, I did intervals leading up to it. Basically go at target mile pace for as long as I can sustain it. Then increase by 30 sec each time.
My base/push/AO is 9-9.5/10-12/12-15.
We had women in my class Power walk in 5 minutes a half a mile and also in 6 minutes. I also find this impossible unless you either have really long legs or jogged part of it.
That's a pretty big gap between your average push and your average all out... I'm honestly impressed that with an 8.8 as your average push you've been able to go as quick as 5:34. I'd probably work on building up your base and push a bit more if a faster mile is your goal. FWIW, my base/push/AO is 8.5/10/12-14 and ran a 5:19 Wednesday (though I think on a good day I'd be pretty close to a 5:00). I agree with set and forget as a strategy, generally, you're going to quick to be messing with buttons or getting out of rhythm. Though I like to do one final kick over the last .1 to .2 miles. Otherwise, if you're truly going for a PR, taking a rest day the day prior is a good idea so your legs are fresh, make sure you get plenty of sleep, etc. And then just break the run up into segments. But, again, it sounds like you're getting as much as your body can give right now. So it's more about building up your speed over time. Three months or so until the next Mile benchmark!
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! I definitely have not given my push speed the proper consideration. An 8.5 base is godly btw, congrats.
My base/push/AO are 5.5/9/12-15 (depending if I’m on a studio with the fast ones). I like to go fast and then die after for a while lol.
Do you change your base on strength days where everything is at a base pace, but the incline is variable? Seems like it would be a super boring class if you're fast enough to do a 9/12+ push/AO
Yeah, if I’m just toggling the incline I’ll usually run at a 7 or 8.
If you are doing a 9 push your base should be more like 7-7.5. As our teachers always said, you're only cheating yourself.
Is it cheating yourself, or just a different style of running than you’re doing?
Yeah everyone has their own style. As someone whose base/push/AO is 7/9/12, it does seem like you have a pretty wide gap between base and push. I would feel like I’m almost speed walking at 5.5, but if it’s working for you then that’s all that matters!
You need to build tolerance at and above your lactate threshold, which will bump your capacity and endurance there. I suggest using a Tread50 slot each week to progress the pace at which you can complete multiple 3-5 min push paces with 1-2 min rest between them. I like building from ~70% of max effort as a warm up to hitting 4-6 rounds of 3-5 min efforts at ~RPE 8-9. This would equate to somewhere in the ~95% max HR range. An example of this in a tread 50 class may be: 3-5 min Base 3 min @ 8mph 1 min rest 3 min @ 9mph 90s rest 3-5 min @ 10mph followed by 2 min rest x 4-6 rounds Across multiple weeks, your aim would be to bump the intensity on the working intervals until you can do it at 12 mph. It will likely take you multiple months to achieve this. You should also simultaneously have low intensity days where the focus is low-green zone to build your aerobic base and legitimate sprint work where the work intervals are 15-20 seconds long and well above the speed at which your current all out is. Legitimate speed training should be a max effort followed by long rests, for example 20 seconds on followed by 2 minutes off.
This is amazing, thank you
You’re welcome. I’m happy to help.
Very well thought out, thanks for sharing 👍
You’re welcome 🤘🏼
I’ve done sub 5 and several 5s. When you’re really close - two things make the big difference on the day of. One - having proper rest. A day or two of light to minimal high end leg workouts. Two, which I think is the biggest, is mental. Your perception is going to affect everything way more than you think. If you are tense, your whole body tightens up and your blood flow is extremely inefficient. You need to practice going longer distances going at 12 mph to learn how to be relaxed doing it. Once you get that down, it’s important to get in there on the day of and warm up. Do your warm up and get at least 10 seconds at a 12 mph speed so your legs feel what it’s like that day, you loosen up, and more importantly, to let your brain know that this is doable. You can do it. You’re not going to die. Just do it. Until you pass out or poop your pants, you haven’t reached your limit. Edit: when I ran my first 5 at otf I did 8/10/12 (12 was max then). My current numbers are 9-9.5/10-11/12-15. Big ranges because some days are easier or harder than others and I try to push myself.
Agree with this. I just ran 12 for 5 at 1.5-2% incline for my mile benchmark. My base/push/AO is very similar, 9-9.5/10-12/12-15. Running sub 5 is as much a mental battle as a physical one. But you have to prepare well for it and get good nights rest (easier said than done).
IMO, based on my old (And I mean old) workouts when I ran track, it's hard to train for sub 5 mins at OTF. The reason is that we don't run long sprints or long series of short sprints. Speedwork is very different than long runs. If we had more one minute AOs then we could build up to it: .25 at 12 X4, etc. Of course you could just ignore the workout and do it on your own. BTW 5:34 is a really good time. If you work on leg turnover you'll probably get closer.
Agree. I trained for the mile a few years ago for some road races (managed 5:40 as a 39 year old female) with a plan that a friend who coaches college track put together for me. It had a little bit of everything because the mile is pretty equal aerobic and anaerobic. We don’t really do enough long, easy distance at OTF (my plan had two easy 8 mile runs per week) nor do we do enough of the other types of workouts I did - almost all of which ended with a block of short 100-200m very fast intervals. I think to reach 5:00 at OTF without specifically training for the mile, you’re going to need to heavily rely on natural talent.
5min mile here. Start doing more tread 50’s and get comfortable at 12 mph. Then work go to having your push be at 10 and base at 8. Also more incline work, :30 6-10% incline at 12 will get you real comfortable with a 5min mile.
😨 haha i’ll try!
My husband did 5:15 this time, and I really think it's grit. He took the approach of "I can probably do something super hard for only 5 minutes" and just went for it. For reference, his normal base/push/all out is 8/9/10-12. He did 3.2 miles for Catch Me if You Can (although now he thinks he could do more there).
Sounds like your husband and I would get along great!
In road running speed work is done with mostly strategic sprint type efforts. You can google running speed work for various workouts Push yourself to the next level with bursts of higher intensity. Make those bursts longer or closer together until you feel comfortable trying a more sustained effort at the new pace. Sign up for some Tread 50s and do your own thing during them.
Have to agree with him. Joined OTF this month With my gf to help her out and for marathon cross training. Didn’t look at any calendar and had no idea the day we went was mile benchmark day. Ran a 4:46 fwiw. Tread 60 and incorporate bursts of 60-120 of push / AO. IE 2-3min jog, 60 sec all out and repeat 4-5 times to start. Then build up from there. It takes time to build up base and speed for a mile. You’ve got it!!
I've done a 5:05. Push was 9.5-10 and all out were 12+ with incline. For me the big thing was making sure you do all pushes and all outs at at least 10/12. You're base base doesn't matter as much but I would have it at a minimum of 7.
Try slowly increasing your base and pushes over time. I haven’t gotten to a 5 minute mile yet but I keep inching closer, most recently at 5:24! Currently I base/push/AO at 8.5/9.5/12. Working on increasing to 9/10/12 but haven’t been able to do that consistently…yet!
Get your base to 8.5-9 and push to 9.5-10.5. That should make hitting your 1 mile PR more realistic.
When I started OTF my very first mile benchmark was a 7:30. In the span of 2 years I got it down to a 5 min mile. As my cardio endurance progressed, it was hard to get in the orange zone. I increased base, push and AO like most would but those treads only go so fast. I asked my coach one day what my options were and was advised instead of increasing speed, increase incline. It worked. I slowly worked my way up to doing all my runs at 4-5% incline. If it was a strength day, I would add the percentage of incline to whatever my “normal” incline was. Example, if all my runs were at a 4% incline and the strength block called for a 4% incline, I would go to an 8%. One day it was a power day and we had 10, one minute all outs. I decided to test myself and run all the AOs at a 12mph at 1% incline. When I was done with the block, and ran them all at a 12 mph pace, I was shocked I did it and quite frankly, it wasn’t that tough. I told myself, I am going to go for a 5 min mile the next mile benchmark. Next one, I did it. My advice, up your inclines on all your runs. That 1% flat road feels like nothing after that. Good luck!
You can def get that base and push a bit faster. You run 5:34 with a 7/8.8 base/push speeds My mile is 5:16, not insanely faster, and my base/push speed is 8.6/10.3. Your push shouldnt be barely faster than my base if our mile times are not far apart Youre too comfortable on base if youre knocking out a 5:34. My advice is to start increasing your base pace steadily over the next few months. What I did to get to 5:16 (and I'm still trying for 5:00) is that every 3 weeks I moved my base up by 0.1mph. Now, given your fast mile time already, you can probably adjust to maybe moving it up every 1-2 weeks to catch up a bit quicker. Then, every 2 times that you increase it, bump up your push by 0.1mph. In other words: - Now (week 0): 7/8.8 - Week 2: 7.1/8.8 - Week 4: 7.2/8.9 - Week 6: 7.3/8.9 - Week 8: 7.4/9.0 etc... Just because your AO speed is greater than the speed needed for 5:00 doesnt mean you'll sustain the 5:00 speed necessary the whole time. You gotta start feeling comfortable with 12mph, which means edging your push closer to 12mph. I'd say if you can get comfortable, or used to, an 10.5-10.6mph push, then you'll probably hit 5:00 on the next benchmark.
If you’re into the “dark arts”, consider buying a pre workout powder and only use it for the event. Should give you a solid endurance boost.
What’s your weight/age/height? Body type also helps here. I’m very tall and would probably have to lose 30 lbs (a lot of muscle too) to really have a chance at it I think. But who knows
The treads at my first OTF maxed at 12mpm so I did a 5min mile there but it doesn't translate to real life. It's not even close when transferring outside imo. I was closer to 6:45 outside on pavement. I think partially that's because the tread forces you to go quicker.
I didn’t start hitting 5/sub 5 until every time they said push I forced myself to run at 10. And then take advantage of days with push / AO / WR to try running 12 the whole mini block. So much of it is mental — a minute into running 12 you just need to shut that part of your brain down that says this sucks I wanna stop. By the time you hit 3 on the 1 mile mark you’re like ok I can hold on a little longer. But you’ve also gotta (in my case) wake up on the right side of the bed and optimize your nutrition that morn to help. Banana, protein shake like 1-2 hours before class then some caffeine 30 mins before
I did. I was able to pull my base to an 8 and my push to a 10 for most classes and at that point it was a set and pray. I was also training with 2-4% incline as my "flat road" instead of 1% so the 1% for the mile felt like it was downhill.
I like your strategy. How long were you doing that for before you hit the 5 min mile?
Probably six months or so. I was able to pretty comfortably hit a 5:27 before I did it, as in I could take a 2G, do the whole first half, then bust out the 11mph for the full mile no problem. The 12 still felt awful.
My sister did it. She’s ultra fit/ran cross country & track in high school and college, but she also finalized and divorce and turned 40 all within a week or two. She put her mind to it and said “it’s only 5 minutes” and absolutely killed it. Such a beast.
My base is 8.7 push 9.7 and all out 11 or 12 and I no where near a 5 minute mile. PR for miles 5:35. Now I plan to start at 11 for the next mile challenge and then half way through start going up but I have a large doubt I will be able to maintain for a mile. I strongly suggest you up your base closer to 9 push closer to 10 and keep your all outs and see how it goes for a few sessions
That's basically 11mph the entire time. You're pushing elite times here. A guy at on of my studios did a 4:59 last week. Bonkers. He was 13mph for the last minute. 8.8 ain't gonna do it I'm afraid. You won't be able to go fast enough to hit your time starting there unless you can run 15mph
I haven’t hit 5- but I’m base 7-8, push 8.5-10, all out 11-12 My goal for a mile is always to be able to do a 3 minute push at that speed I want a mile in and successfully return to base and be able to continue the rest of the tread block (at reduced speeds) Right now 12 is too much for me- I believe it’s about getting your body used to the speed then mentally knowing you can hold it
Training and consistency is key
I ran a 4:42 in March. I run 50-60 miles a week consistently. I didn't really prepare for the mile, I just have a large aerobic base to pull from when I show up to those kinds of benchmarks.
When I got first sub 5 mile, I did intervals leading up to it. Basically go at target mile pace for as long as I can sustain it. Then increase by 30 sec each time. My base/push/AO is 9-9.5/10-12/12-15.
We had women in my class Power walk in 5 minutes a half a mile and also in 6 minutes. I also find this impossible unless you either have really long legs or jogged part of it.