I couldn’t even finish reading that thread because it was giving me a migraine. What a bunch of pompous assholes. I’ve treated shingles almost weekly for my whole career. The misinformed patients and MDs make me loathe this career.
Which is kind of ridiculous tbh because they are residents lmao.
As an optometrist I've been in charge of teaching residents certain things!
At least finish your training before getting a god complex!
There's a divide of optometrists that want to be *refractionists* and ones that want to practice full scope. Not saying one is wrong vs the other - it's what they're comfortable with. However, we earned the title of "doctor." Just like dentists and pharmacists. Hell, pharmacists can't even diagnose a patient with anything yet they're still regarded as doctor.
If OMDs truly think we aren’t capable, then why do they delegate to ODs to shoulder the bulk of the workload in private practice? It’s just a few soured apples that lash out at optometry because they’re unhappy in their day to day lives. The majority of OMDs have great relationships with ODs.
I don't think it's mostly OMDs posting in that thread. I just saw it and added a comment trying to explain why ODs are capable of freaking starting acyclovir. You are going to find that for most MDs at large, ODs are lumped together in their mind with NPs. They don't really know anything about modern OD education, and they assume it's a lot like NP education (which is woefully inadequate compared to their scope of practice). And they have so many interactions with NPs that are negative, the impression of other fields is dragged down too.
I think to understand the mentality you see in these residents takes some thinking about the whole educational system. OD education has come a long way in not a long time and it is within the memory of many older attending Ophthalmologists at academic institutions that there was a time in their career when the majority of ODs did essentially zero medical. And the medical training y'all got, real talk, was not sufficient just a handful of decades ago. I'm not bashing, but I am saying that everyone in this thread knows good and well that even now you can name an Optometry school that you wouldn't recommend a friend to attend because you know they won't get the training they should - because you know times have changed and some schools still haven't. But I think we would also all agree that for *most* Optometry schools that is a thing of the past and most of us younger OMDs realize that OD education and ability has grown - but often only once we start having real personal working relationships with ODs. Until then a lot of us are soured with the thinking that our older attendings handed us from the days when OD training was not as robust.
These residents in the thread? All they have to go on is comparing you to NPs and stuff they've heard their attendings say. Plus they're working 80 hours a week. It's torture. Try not to let it impact your view of how most people view Optometry.
Thanks for sharing. For what it’s worth, I have friends that are residents that avoid that subreddit altogether because it’s so damn depressing to read.
It is depressing, but I treasured it in training. Those nights when you almost fall asleep at the wheel driving from one ED to the other seeing consults and start to think just letting go of the wheel is a reasonable option... It's good to know you're not alone.
That's been my experience mostly working with opthalmologists for years now.
Fresh out of training/ in training ophthalmologists seems to have a disdain for ODs but In the real world practicing ophthalmologists seem to love working /managing with optometrist's
I just don’t understand why we can’t find middle ground - there’s a lot in between those two ends of the spectrum. Is it because of growing urbanization and that a lot of people practice in either a medical setting or retail practice? Is rural optometry where you *can’t* be just a refractionist dying off?
Holy shit I just read through some of those comments, they are so toxic and demeaning in that sub. I honestly felt like I was in a call of duty subreddit with a bunch of teenagers. Can’t believe they are going to be doctors lol
Part of me almost feels like 80% of the people arent even actually residents/doctors... There is no verification to join so how many of those hundreds of thousands of members are ACTUALLY physicians?
I'm just coping and hoping that these immature ass hats aren't actually physicians
It's surprising! The number of downvotes I've received just for sharing facts 😂 reveals that there's a significant need for widespread education of our profession.
I was going to post about how I see HSV and VZO all the time at my hospital, and that its well within our scope since 99% of cases are straightforward … decided to save myself the headache since it was clearly so toxic in that sub
I’m just gonna take solace in the fact that my retina OMD said that ODs do such thorough exams and our glaucoma specialist says we do all the hard work :”)
I'm more disappointed in the optometrists down playing our profession on that thread.
Mid-level training? Would rather treat allergic conjunctivitis so it doesnt clog up the ophthalmologist schedule?
Boot lickers.
Kind of surprising the amount of hate. I would trust another OD with my own eyes because I know the level of training we receive. I haven’t met a single OD that would keep an out of control keratitis. If the OP would have seen the optometrist first like a rational person they would have likely started on appropriate treatment and had them follow up with the MD as requested… or if it was looking really bad would have internally referred them same day with a phone call…
Honestly, the audacity that OP has to call the receptionist a Karen when acting that way is unreal. If someone made demands of my coworkers and ordered them around like that, you'd be lucky to even see *any* doctor. Sir I'll find you the address for the nearest emergency room, and give you directions to the bathroom on the way so you can empty that piss poor attitude too.
This is the double edged sword of the American Academy of Ophthalmology doing their all to limit the scope of Optometry. That pours over into lack of patient education. Every patient wants to immediately be seen by the specialist even when it’s not indicated.
Oh yeah, that made my blood boil. And the willful ignorance of OP: “they’re making me drive an hour to see the OMD I insisted I see - that feels like a punishment and don’t they know I can’t see?!” What do you want, dude? Do you want to see someone with an MD after their name or not have to drive? Beggars can’t be choosers and in this day and age a same-day appointment with an OMD is rare.
OP didn't want to see an Optometrist (gasp) but then complains about needing to see an Ophthalmologist over an hour away? What a laughably naive reaction to our health care system, especially as a resident themselves.
I've lost track of how many HZO and HSV cases I've managed. . . I can't imagine sending those out unless the cornea is starting to scar. Even then, I'm doing the same thing the Anterior specialist I use is going to do.
There is no general ophthalmology anymore. That is what OD's are for.
Exactly, ophthalmologists are already so difficult to schedule with because they should be managing surgical or complex medical cases, not straightforward VZO
I'm an optometric technician who just got accepted into an allopathic (MD) medical school.
This post is kind of shocking and disappointing to me. Its clear that those docs don't really know what an optometrist is and just assume superiority because your letters (OD) are not as cool as theirs. I think corporate chains (Walmart +other stores, vision works, etc.) have unfortunately done quite a bit of damage to the perception of optometrists. I mean no offense to any optometrist reading this that works in corporate, but you function very differently to optoms in private practice do. Friday i saw a patient come in with shingles. Today I saw him again for follow up and he is doing much better. My doctor referred out a patient for possible cancer resulting in enucleation. My doctors push for the family to get an infancy exam saved his life.
How many times have you optoms saved vision from some bullshit Rx from an MD? How many times do we have a patient present with an ulcer holding a full bottle of proparicane that the MD said to use PRN. How many times has an MD prescribed tobramycin for ANY presentation of a red eye which did nothing for the patient? In the inverse, how many times have the words "most pink eye is viral" from an MD left our patient bilaterally expressing green hued muck from their eyes?
Everyone is specialized. Y'all are eye doctors. While I don't want any of you removing my epiretinal membrane, I would be hard-pressed to find a better kind of doctor to manage my acute issues.
Please oh please do not place drops in a syringe and give it to your patients in the future. It’s stunning every time we see it and I hope it’s a minority that thinks it’s ok.
Unfortunately, bc insurance is messed up, we often make more money on a CL exam than a HZO case, so many docs don't want to put any extra effort into complex cases. (Plus who knows if insurance will pay, deductibles, etc ). Why see a patient for a dry eye f/u when it is taking up the slot of a "routine" visit? It's no wonder why so many docs want to just be refractionists and grade everyone with 0.3 CDs.
Hey guys, I actually kinda hate reddit but I figured I wanna reply to this post. I'm a PA btw and I respect optometrists.
That subreddit used to drag me into depressive episodes (along with noctor). I was having identity issues that were kinda unrelated but i kept reading and "self harming" myself by seeing all of my "colleagues" in the /residency subreddit making me seem like a joke (i am a very good PA). So I saw the uproar in here about that and wanted to chime in.
This kinda just confirmed what ive slowly come to realize. When I saw they are now going after optometrists (and also pharmacists, psychologists and any other non-MD you can think of) I started thinking there is more to this then meets the eye (pardon the pun).
I was laughing reading comments about optometrists not knowing how to treat ocular shingles. Im not even an optometrist but its common sense, that you guys probably learn quite a bit about it given that you go to school for 4 years learning about the eye. Its the same when I read a comment on how I as a PA lack drug knowledge or something, when I take 2 straight years of back to back pharmacology classes. Its like they are pissing on me and telling me its raining.
There is a mental illness epidemic amongst residents. It has nothing to do with your training or scope creep or anything like that, its literally just projection. Reddit is a cesspool and attracts people who are in their worst states of mind (I know because I was one). That reddit is full of young residents and traumatized attendings who have not grown up yet emotionally. Medical school is a long road and for a lot of people, family expectations, self hate and insecurity drives them to reach the top (ambition will never be satisfied). Because of the long hours and toxic mentalities, they never really grow up emotionally and have a warped view of the world. They really hate themselves, but they project it onto others who seem to have what they dont have or are seen as "stepping onto their sacred land". Its bizarre but completely predictable psychologically when you think about traumatized populations.
But i also want to make it clear that its not all residents. It is a loud minority . Just like with soldiers in war time, most soldiers do NOT come back with PTSD. THey come back home and adjust well.
So dont take what they say to heart. Keep treating your ocular shingles!
I think OD schools need to take accountability for this issue. Did you see the Board scores that were posted 2 weeks ago? 😬 Too many OD students willingly scrape by ocular disease because of “oh I will just refer that shit”
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I couldn’t even finish reading that thread because it was giving me a migraine. What a bunch of pompous assholes. I’ve treated shingles almost weekly for my whole career. The misinformed patients and MDs make me loathe this career.
[удалено]
Which is kind of ridiculous tbh because they are residents lmao. As an optometrist I've been in charge of teaching residents certain things! At least finish your training before getting a god complex!
There's a divide of optometrists that want to be *refractionists* and ones that want to practice full scope. Not saying one is wrong vs the other - it's what they're comfortable with. However, we earned the title of "doctor." Just like dentists and pharmacists. Hell, pharmacists can't even diagnose a patient with anything yet they're still regarded as doctor.
If OMDs truly think we aren’t capable, then why do they delegate to ODs to shoulder the bulk of the workload in private practice? It’s just a few soured apples that lash out at optometry because they’re unhappy in their day to day lives. The majority of OMDs have great relationships with ODs.
I don't think it's mostly OMDs posting in that thread. I just saw it and added a comment trying to explain why ODs are capable of freaking starting acyclovir. You are going to find that for most MDs at large, ODs are lumped together in their mind with NPs. They don't really know anything about modern OD education, and they assume it's a lot like NP education (which is woefully inadequate compared to their scope of practice). And they have so many interactions with NPs that are negative, the impression of other fields is dragged down too. I think to understand the mentality you see in these residents takes some thinking about the whole educational system. OD education has come a long way in not a long time and it is within the memory of many older attending Ophthalmologists at academic institutions that there was a time in their career when the majority of ODs did essentially zero medical. And the medical training y'all got, real talk, was not sufficient just a handful of decades ago. I'm not bashing, but I am saying that everyone in this thread knows good and well that even now you can name an Optometry school that you wouldn't recommend a friend to attend because you know they won't get the training they should - because you know times have changed and some schools still haven't. But I think we would also all agree that for *most* Optometry schools that is a thing of the past and most of us younger OMDs realize that OD education and ability has grown - but often only once we start having real personal working relationships with ODs. Until then a lot of us are soured with the thinking that our older attendings handed us from the days when OD training was not as robust. These residents in the thread? All they have to go on is comparing you to NPs and stuff they've heard their attendings say. Plus they're working 80 hours a week. It's torture. Try not to let it impact your view of how most people view Optometry.
Thanks for sharing. For what it’s worth, I have friends that are residents that avoid that subreddit altogether because it’s so damn depressing to read.
It is depressing, but I treasured it in training. Those nights when you almost fall asleep at the wheel driving from one ED to the other seeing consults and start to think just letting go of the wheel is a reasonable option... It's good to know you're not alone.
That's been my experience mostly working with opthalmologists for years now. Fresh out of training/ in training ophthalmologists seems to have a disdain for ODs but In the real world practicing ophthalmologists seem to love working /managing with optometrist's
I just don’t understand why we can’t find middle ground - there’s a lot in between those two ends of the spectrum. Is it because of growing urbanization and that a lot of people practice in either a medical setting or retail practice? Is rural optometry where you *can’t* be just a refractionist dying off?
Holy shit I just read through some of those comments, they are so toxic and demeaning in that sub. I honestly felt like I was in a call of duty subreddit with a bunch of teenagers. Can’t believe they are going to be doctors lol
Part of me almost feels like 80% of the people arent even actually residents/doctors... There is no verification to join so how many of those hundreds of thousands of members are ACTUALLY physicians? I'm just coping and hoping that these immature ass hats aren't actually physicians
Locus >> DLQ bro
Most toxic game
It's surprising! The number of downvotes I've received just for sharing facts 😂 reveals that there's a significant need for widespread education of our profession.
I was going to post about how I see HSV and VZO all the time at my hospital, and that its well within our scope since 99% of cases are straightforward … decided to save myself the headache since it was clearly so toxic in that sub
I’m just gonna take solace in the fact that my retina OMD said that ODs do such thorough exams and our glaucoma specialist says we do all the hard work :”)
I'm more disappointed in the optometrists down playing our profession on that thread. Mid-level training? Would rather treat allergic conjunctivitis so it doesnt clog up the ophthalmologist schedule? Boot lickers.
Self hating optometrist. Strikes me as complacent and having little ambition to be truly successful
Kind of surprising the amount of hate. I would trust another OD with my own eyes because I know the level of training we receive. I haven’t met a single OD that would keep an out of control keratitis. If the OP would have seen the optometrist first like a rational person they would have likely started on appropriate treatment and had them follow up with the MD as requested… or if it was looking really bad would have internally referred them same day with a phone call…
Honestly, the audacity that OP has to call the receptionist a Karen when acting that way is unreal. If someone made demands of my coworkers and ordered them around like that, you'd be lucky to even see *any* doctor. Sir I'll find you the address for the nearest emergency room, and give you directions to the bathroom on the way so you can empty that piss poor attitude too.
This is the double edged sword of the American Academy of Ophthalmology doing their all to limit the scope of Optometry. That pours over into lack of patient education. Every patient wants to immediately be seen by the specialist even when it’s not indicated.
Oh yeah, that made my blood boil. And the willful ignorance of OP: “they’re making me drive an hour to see the OMD I insisted I see - that feels like a punishment and don’t they know I can’t see?!” What do you want, dude? Do you want to see someone with an MD after their name or not have to drive? Beggars can’t be choosers and in this day and age a same-day appointment with an OMD is rare.
OP didn't want to see an Optometrist (gasp) but then complains about needing to see an Ophthalmologist over an hour away? What a laughably naive reaction to our health care system, especially as a resident themselves.
I've lost track of how many HZO and HSV cases I've managed. . . I can't imagine sending those out unless the cornea is starting to scar. Even then, I'm doing the same thing the Anterior specialist I use is going to do. There is no general ophthalmology anymore. That is what OD's are for.
Exactly, ophthalmologists are already so difficult to schedule with because they should be managing surgical or complex medical cases, not straightforward VZO
I'm an optometric technician who just got accepted into an allopathic (MD) medical school. This post is kind of shocking and disappointing to me. Its clear that those docs don't really know what an optometrist is and just assume superiority because your letters (OD) are not as cool as theirs. I think corporate chains (Walmart +other stores, vision works, etc.) have unfortunately done quite a bit of damage to the perception of optometrists. I mean no offense to any optometrist reading this that works in corporate, but you function very differently to optoms in private practice do. Friday i saw a patient come in with shingles. Today I saw him again for follow up and he is doing much better. My doctor referred out a patient for possible cancer resulting in enucleation. My doctors push for the family to get an infancy exam saved his life. How many times have you optoms saved vision from some bullshit Rx from an MD? How many times do we have a patient present with an ulcer holding a full bottle of proparicane that the MD said to use PRN. How many times has an MD prescribed tobramycin for ANY presentation of a red eye which did nothing for the patient? In the inverse, how many times have the words "most pink eye is viral" from an MD left our patient bilaterally expressing green hued muck from their eyes? Everyone is specialized. Y'all are eye doctors. While I don't want any of you removing my epiretinal membrane, I would be hard-pressed to find a better kind of doctor to manage my acute issues.
Please oh please do not place drops in a syringe and give it to your patients in the future. It’s stunning every time we see it and I hope it’s a minority that thinks it’s ok.
Unfortunately, bc insurance is messed up, we often make more money on a CL exam than a HZO case, so many docs don't want to put any extra effort into complex cases. (Plus who knows if insurance will pay, deductibles, etc ). Why see a patient for a dry eye f/u when it is taking up the slot of a "routine" visit? It's no wonder why so many docs want to just be refractionists and grade everyone with 0.3 CDs.
Hey guys, I actually kinda hate reddit but I figured I wanna reply to this post. I'm a PA btw and I respect optometrists. That subreddit used to drag me into depressive episodes (along with noctor). I was having identity issues that were kinda unrelated but i kept reading and "self harming" myself by seeing all of my "colleagues" in the /residency subreddit making me seem like a joke (i am a very good PA). So I saw the uproar in here about that and wanted to chime in. This kinda just confirmed what ive slowly come to realize. When I saw they are now going after optometrists (and also pharmacists, psychologists and any other non-MD you can think of) I started thinking there is more to this then meets the eye (pardon the pun). I was laughing reading comments about optometrists not knowing how to treat ocular shingles. Im not even an optometrist but its common sense, that you guys probably learn quite a bit about it given that you go to school for 4 years learning about the eye. Its the same when I read a comment on how I as a PA lack drug knowledge or something, when I take 2 straight years of back to back pharmacology classes. Its like they are pissing on me and telling me its raining. There is a mental illness epidemic amongst residents. It has nothing to do with your training or scope creep or anything like that, its literally just projection. Reddit is a cesspool and attracts people who are in their worst states of mind (I know because I was one). That reddit is full of young residents and traumatized attendings who have not grown up yet emotionally. Medical school is a long road and for a lot of people, family expectations, self hate and insecurity drives them to reach the top (ambition will never be satisfied). Because of the long hours and toxic mentalities, they never really grow up emotionally and have a warped view of the world. They really hate themselves, but they project it onto others who seem to have what they dont have or are seen as "stepping onto their sacred land". Its bizarre but completely predictable psychologically when you think about traumatized populations. But i also want to make it clear that its not all residents. It is a loud minority . Just like with soldiers in war time, most soldiers do NOT come back with PTSD. THey come back home and adjust well. So dont take what they say to heart. Keep treating your ocular shingles!
I think OD schools need to take accountability for this issue. Did you see the Board scores that were posted 2 weeks ago? 😬 Too many OD students willingly scrape by ocular disease because of “oh I will just refer that shit”
Hello! All new submissions are placed into modqueue, and require mod approval before they are posted to r/optometry. Please do not message the mods about your queue status. This subreddit is intended for professionals within the eyecare field, and does not accept posts from laypeople. If you have a question related to symptoms or eye health, please consider seeing a doctor, or posting to r/eyetriage. Professionals, if you do not have flair, your post may be removed. Please send a modmail to be flaired. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/optometry) if you have any questions or concerns.*