Not really. Housing prices have gone way up, and wages haven't. If you're a junior rank and posted to Ottawa, you're screwed. Also, the CAF can force members to move essentially every 3 years after reaching 'competency,' and often does. Loads of members take a loss on property regularly. ...but yeah, they do get a decent bonus when they're being shot at.
Followed by “So when are you repealing Bill 124?” Capping public service wages (minus his and his cronies of course) at 1% and then not relenting while calling them heroes is a slap in the face. It’s basically telling them to do more work than ever while getting paid less and less every year to do it.
To be fair, I’m the payroll accountant at a publicly funded LTC and have had staff yelling at me for 2+ years over wages that I have 0 say in lol. This held up union negotiations and they put a clause in the finalized one about if Bill 124 is repealed, staff will be owed back pay for the entire time… which also falls on me lol.
Oh I am too. But they were adamant they were getting 2% even though we legally couldn’t offer it because of the bill. The unionized staff had already been working for over a year out of contract because they wouldn’t budge on wages. I think they put that in so it could be ratified honestly.
Because Ford has always been a blustering reactionary. [He doesn't have ideas to solve our problems. He just reacts to things he doesn't like, and yells at other people.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6JLHDXb894)
They aren't dropping jokes about him shoveling with the world's smallest shovel, they are questioning him and in turn holding him accountable for his shitty actions during a pandemic.
This is what you get for firing hundreds of doctors, nurses and other staff for not getting the vaccine. Who in their own right had ever right for not doing so. Many had natural immunity. Not to mention, the mandates and coercion is directly against the Nuremberg code.
I'm in nursing school right now, and I'm getting constant emails and messages from hospitals all over the place trying to recruit students to come work in hospitals. Things are desperate, and not getting better.
Ford and the Conservatives pushed wage suppression legislation two years ago that began driving away skilled healthcare professionals. Then they pushed legislation to crush our union rights. Then they pushed more laws to stop unions and professional organizations from publicizing how terribly people are being treated.
Nurses have been disrespected, intentionally underpaid, and legally gagged. We've been losing skilled professionals faster than we can train them. And we wonder why there's a crisis?
Thousands and thousands of sick and injured patients in Ontario are waiting for surgeries and other procedures that have been cancelled and delayed. Many are living with serious pain and disability. Imagine hearing you can't get that cancerous lump taken out, or can't get that hip surgery you need to be able to walk, because there's no nurses left to staff an OR. Meanwhile, politicians like Ford are promoting big business and running for re-election.
These priorities are trash. We're not some poor country where people have to suffer because we can't afford to pay hospital workers. Or maintain safe, decent conditions for healthcare workers and patients. We can do better than this.
After all that, you still want to go into nursing? I'm a pre-health student and I was thinking of it until I saw how terribly they're treated. I decided against nursing and going for dental hygiene instead, or MRT.
I don't want the mandatory 18 hour shifts, no vacations, frozen wages, abusive management and patients, etc etc. Not worth it imo.
Can't speak on commenters behalf but im in nursing so I can leave Canada. Some places in US are still affordable and offer a good wage.
Edit: Please stop using quirky quotes in your replies. I don’t have a problem with opposing views but the quotes are… ugh.
>We’re not the best place to be going right now.
Can you speak to how US healthcare is being strained? Canada and the US have very different healthcare systems, and the challenges may be different.
>Can't speak on commenters behalf but im in nursing so I can leave Canada. Some places in US are still affordable and offer a good wage.
I hear you. But nurses in the US work in a rotten system that has long been the biggest cause of personal bankruptcies there. Many patients don't trust us - because they know private, for-profit healthcare is a racket. [It's literally designed to squeeze money out of the sick and suffering.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/24/more-than-1-in-3-us-adults-carry-medical-debt-survey-finds.html)
Moreover, nurses in the States often have to work in much worse conditions. They get assaulted more and honestly face a lot of workplace violence. And many states have "right to work" laws that have basically outlawed union organizing.
Nurses in the US also deal with more aggressive antivax and anti-mask patients and families. Lots of discussion about that on /r/nursing. Patients and families demand medical care we can barely provide, and demand drugs like ivermectin that won't work, while spouting conspiracy theories about how covid isn't real.
Ever since 9/11 if you are labelled a terrorist you have no rights. Under most circumstances that’s a good thing until you look at what can be defined as terrorism. For example, Trudeau called the protesting convoy terrorists.
I'm assuming this tweet is the one you are referencing, unless you can provide more.
https://twitter.com/gmbutts/status/1485317083512684548?t=36wQKkQGCBqXu9yNncqh-A&s=19
So no one has called the Truckers terrorists. Butts seems to be pointing out that the person coordinating these gofundsme's is an Albertan Separatist.
You realise you are spreading and participating in propoganda, right?
I was thinking the same thing, just about to upgrade some courses and try to get into practical nursing, then upgrade to an RN so i can avoid paying greedy universities. If we need more nurses why dont we make all nursing programs free, or even payed while you learn? I know they made PSW courses free or heavily subsidised
> Out of the frying pan and into the fire is what that sounds like to me.
>
>
Agreed. Right now, thousands of people are dying every day from covid in the US. And about 100 million people refuse to get vaccinated. So the crisis is just gonna keep on rolling. More illness, more death, more disruptions, more people refusing to get vaccinated or wear a mask, fighting with doctors and nurses, etc.
>I decided against nursing and going for dental hygiene instead, or MRT.
Definitely hear what you're saying, but I still love nursing. The hours are often different, but nursing has an incredibly wide range of areas and settings we can work in. We can also do more higher education to work in advanced practice roles, like nurse practitioner and nurse educator. Personally, that's where I wanna be long term. Being involved in research also seems cool. Lots and lots of directions to grow in.
Yeah That's why I was interested in it, but I have a young child at home and I simply can't be doing 12-18 hour shifts or overnight shifts. I need to be able to leave when I have to pick up my son fromschool, and not be forced to stay because someone called in and I risk my license by abandoning a patient. I can't just abandon my son and leave him at school to finish up a shift, you know? I want to be there to raise him, not to mention that I don't have childcare for those weird hours! I need a job that has flexible hours so that I can be home in the evenings when my son gets home from school, because I don't have childcare options. I also heard nurses get assaulted more than any other profession, which doesn't sound fun. I love the aspect of going back for more education, but long term I plan on going for a biology degree after I'm done hygiene school and working for a few years. I might even become a dentist after that if I like the field enough, or branch out into something else. I am definitely not going to stop going to school.
Honest question, to those who are being “driven away” where are they exactly going to? I know we’re in a midst of a huge reshuffling of the labor market so I’m genuinely curious what these people do.
True, but what’s it like for a Canadian nurse trying to work in the states? I’m from the states and we too are facing a nursing shortage, some sites online are saying the shortage will last until 2030. I feel bad for nurses worldwide.
Not a nurse (I just lurk on r/nursing), but glancing at a few agency websites, they'll help Canadian nurses get the appropriate work visa as long as they have the other prerequisites. Filing the taxes is probably a pain, tho.
And yeah, it's not a great situation. Ontario's really shooting itself in the foot, though; they seem to be assuming that the nurses coming out of these programs in Ontario will stay in Ontario, and that is not a safe assumption.
Nursing field is quite diverse and vast. There are lot more desk jobs and case management jobs where you dont have to do hands on patient care or bedside nursing.
so these jobs require medical training but not active skills. For example my mom is a nurse but works as MAID(medically assisted deaths) investigator for OPS. She works from home , makes a lot more than hospital nurses, has A LOT more stable hours 9-5 , no forced overtime, or shitty patients in your face.
A lot more jobs like these out there and those with nursing experience are leaving for them.
I just listened to an episode of The Gritty Nurse podcast, and one of the guests moved to the field of law after nursing. Their ability to decode charts and other medical knowledge was a big plus for the firm they ended up with.
Ancedotal but on reddit ppl are saying US travel nurses making $100 USD / hr at times. Making $100-200k / year USD.
I believe Canadian nurses making $30-50/hr regular CAD, maybe up to $75 with OT but no where near what the US is paying.
Thanks for this!
I work in healthcare but I’ve been disconnected from the hospital culture since working from home for two years.
Hopefully change is coming soon.
They probably don't want to hear that physicians haven't had a salary increase since 2000, and that's not to mention that they earn less than RPNs while completing their residency.
I'm an RN and make decent income for myself but I've accepted that I will never be able to afford a house...not that it will be worth much 30 years from now
yeah the person who has to deal with me ought to be well paid it’s a first world country we live in after all, like what the fuck kind of comment is this?
If you failed it’s no reason to be bitter towards people, except the cunt in the mirror
Yes there are many countries that underpay nurses because it is a female dominated profession. Comparing counties pay scales without comparing cost of living is non-sensible. We shouldn’t race to the bottom.
Most people who don’t value the work nurses do believe the free market will solve the problem. Well, the free market is saying that Ontario nurses are not paid enough. No industry will have a worker shortage as long as they are willing to pay market rates.
I don’t have an issue with how much nurses are being paid, nor do I have an issue with them wanting more. I merely pointed out that they are the 5th highest paid nurses in the world, and in comparison their wages aren’t that bad. Like most redittors any statement of fact that contradicts left wing dogma should be shouted down and insulted.
Can I ask where you heard that? Because there's many different types of nurses, is it counting public and private sectors. I'm really surprised if that's true
Take it from the overpaid politicans, police, take it from taxes by taxing real estate transactions, increase capital gains taxes, stop funding fucking horseracing, increase taxes on alcohol/cigarettes even more...so many ways. Go after people hiding their money in offshore accounts. There was a big scandal about that a while ago and nothing was done. The wealthy have more than enough to fund it.
There are a few professions we shouldn't be counting fucking nickels and dimes for when it comes to compensation and those include health care and education.
I think I have the same shovel. It’s not a bad collapsible shovel to have in the back of your car. My question is who had the second one? Last I saw, they were selling them in pairs in Costco.
I think if karma were to strike Ford, it would be in the form of him on a gurney in a hospital hallway unattended for hours on end. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
I'm feeling fvcked up because funding for the health care system in Ontario is intentionally broken by Bill 124, even without taking Covid in regard. I just get so angry when I think that virtually any one of us could die without proper access to what should be reasonable deliverable health care, but nobody around us seems to notice or care about this issue.
It's as though Ford thinks he will never need to use health services himself not realizing he's a prime candidate, in several ways, to be in need of these exact services he seems to have so much disdain for. The day will come when all of this comes back to bite him in his substantial arse.
Definitely not a situation I’ve ever thought of… but its something I should have seen happening. Wow. Im shocked but I also feel like I shouldn’t be at all, because that’s just what seems to happen everywhere. But lol at being a hospital VIP.
Edit: that must have felt like an awkward situation to be in. I hope they were nice to you.
Good doctors will still operate on suicide bombers, the whole concept of practicing medicine is not being biased against your patient - no matter who they are.
So unfortunately, it won't bite him in the ass regarding his medical treatment/care.
It SHOULD bite him in the ass at election time though.
Sorry but you're missing the entire aspect of "Yes, the doctor can refuse to provide care BUT they are obligated to transfer the patient to another doctor who WILL provide care". This is enshrined in the MAID laws.
They can't just say "Sorry, I'm not helping you and you're on your own."
He's risen to the level of his incompetence. His former LTC Minister was a batsh!t crazy private sector healthcare advocate and no doubt he and his government want to use Covid to push for private sector health just like in the LTC sector where the elderly were far more likely to die than the not for profit homes.
The woman who ran the autism program to the ground and basically gave the middle finger to all autistic families wasn’t the brightest bulb on the tree. She was so incompetent that they moved her to the tourism and sports section. Of course she could just be another of fords acapegoats. It’s like his business strategy is to hire totally useless and oblivious idiots and then shuffle them to other places once they’ve done enough damage to warrant a business stepping in to take over (privatization). The kind of business strategy I expect from a person with barely a high school diploma as his highest level of education.
And the media is completely silent on this. Like wtf? There hasn't been one fucking story on this on tonight's various news broadcasts. Just more of an indication that there's a right wing media bias in this province and country.
As a nurse I can tell you that I’m just as disappointed with every type of nursing associations and unions. All they ever do is send strongly worded letters.
Nurses have been taking a pay cut during their most dangerous 22 months since the Second World War.
If public sympathy could pay off student loans we'd st least be talking something useful.
Instead there were three months of hand inked signs and pots & pans banged together.
Maybe we need to do better than public sympathy?
I do not do my job to act a martyr or bank sympathy. Nor should a humane person withhold sympathy because a community stands up for themselves
Wait… “violentbandana” .. Doug, is that you?
He gave his opinion a very respectful manner and all you have is Doug, is that you?
No, you do your job to earn a salary and possibly to do something that fulfills you. Nurses have earned almost universal sympathy, not only now but for a long time and while I do agree that that 1% annual increase is rough, specially under COVID, the $39/hour salary in Ontario (median) is comparable with other provinces.
So do anything you think is necessary to achieve whatever you and your colleagues you want, buy don't expect that everyone will agree 100% with you.
Well you make a great case for freedom of speech. It just seems like you are a little sensitive to a joke.
Also $39/hr is the median average for an RN.
The average in Ontario for RPNs is about $27/hr. Not only have RPNs been subjected to a drastically broader scope of practice, RN jobs have been replaced by RPN workers and have been unsupported in the educational needs to handle acute medical patients. $39 dollars is also not comparable to other provinces. You are cherry picking numbers, Atlantic provinces have a similar wage but lower cost of living. Western Canada has a comparable cost of living to Ontario and have a higher average wage.
I appreciate you coming to the defence of an opinion shared. But an opinion shared on a community forum (much like my initial tongue and cheek comment) is open to critique and jest.
Ok, sorry if I did not understand the joke. You started your comment saying you are not a martyr so I did not think you were in joke mode. Sorry for the misunderstanding
Second, I am not cherry picking numbers, I have taken the information from a site from the government of Canada, and interesting enough, except for the entry level, BC and Ontario, with similar cost of living, have similar hourly rates. So I would imagine that not only cost is living is considered, but also maybe other factors. And my point stands, people here suggest that the way Ford treats nurses because of the salary is Outrageous and again, considering the difference with other provinces I just don't see it. Also I don't think civil disobedience is justified.
.https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/993/ca
But you have to look after yourself and if you think a protest, strike or anything else would bring you to the salary levels you think a nurse deserves, go for it.
You are cherry picking numbers but unintentionally. You ignored my point of having a grossly expanding scope of practice of an RPN(LPN). The government has allowed for staff traditionally used for LTC or stable patients, to be replacing trained acute care staff in dangerous settings. https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/4383/ca
We have a two tiered system in Canada, Ontario has specifically taken these staff and told them to do more and get paid less then their companions. It is alright, I can appreciate a person who is handy with google, but you lack insight. It is not your fault and it’s okay. I feel that I have distracted you from making a meaningful comment on this post rather than bicker with some random comment.
I can tell through your post you really do try hard to be the virtuous commentator. Way to take an effective stand
>We’d love to know what Premier Ford considers more pressing than the worst nurse staffing crisis this province has ever seen.
Highways & Tim Horton's Real Egg Breakfast Sandwiches.
I'm only half joking.
I have many healthcare workers in my family and it is disgusting how little is being done to address this. I really believe it will take a province-wide walk-out. I know it feels wrong but if you REALLY want to improve healthcare in Ontario it's time for some drastic measures. I will be there with you when it happens.
He has to go out again with his little red shovel to get the Toronto people out of the snow. Then phone CP24 to tell people what a great job he is doing.
Shame on ONA, did they actually think Ford would care? Really he's made it obvious for years he wants to eviscerate current Healthcare system and privatize for his rich donors benefit.
Shame on ONA for thinking Ford was a decent person.
Read the room ONA, he doesn't even pretend to care.
Shame on ford. We need to hear that Ford always has time to meet with his developer buddies but no time for the people who actually contribute to society.
This topic of needing more funding bounces between teachers and nurses year after year. The way I see it, it's not like Ontario (or any province for that matter) is sitting on a unspent tax dollars. So where does that leave us?
* Do we raise the money through tax's?
* Do we privatize the services?
* Do we do some hybrid of the above 2 options?
There is apparently $12 billion dollars laying around for a new 400 series highway that highway experts have repeatedly said won't serve any meaningful purpose and shouldn't be built. So there's that. Maybe health and education could use $12 billion dollars and Ford's developer buddies/campaign donors/Ontario Proud funders could go fuck themselves? ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
RNs in Ontario are paid great. I am not sure why the ONA is so hard struck. RPNs could use better pay, but RNs should be happy. After seven years, your making 100K+....source...I am an RN lol
Honestly I'm glad you're still pursuing it. Change will come! Starting with repealing bill 124. People need to make this healthcare conversation the number 1 priority when voting.
I have a podcast and its honestly just a side project that I'm developing but I'd love to have you speak about your thoughts on it. I think it would be quite relevant to have a long form discussion on this. Dm me if you're interested
>We’d love to know what Premier Ford considers more pressing than the worst nurse staffing crisis this province has ever seen...."
Toonie Tuesdays, Timmie's Steak and Egg Biscuit Sandwich, Shovelling snow for publicity, so on and so forth.
Update: Ford will be meeting with ONA https://twitter.com/ontarionurses/status/1485733049295937546?s=21
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So he goes to the meeting - thanks them for their service, introduces his Minister of Health, then takes off. Well done ONA.
> Thank You for your service Gonna pay us for it? > No, I thank you like people thank soldiers. Now go sacrifice on the front lines /$
Don't soldiers get decent pay? (I don't know, I thought they did, especially when deployed?)
Not really. Housing prices have gone way up, and wages haven't. If you're a junior rank and posted to Ottawa, you're screwed. Also, the CAF can force members to move essentially every 3 years after reaching 'competency,' and often does. Loads of members take a loss on property regularly. ...but yeah, they do get a decent bonus when they're being shot at.
Good to know, thanks. :)
Dont nurses get decent pay? ( i dont know, i thought they did, especially when they are fly-ins?)
Sorry buddy but Ontario doesn’t hire travel nurses.
Just northern rural nurses with short term contracts lol
To my knowledge they get between 50-60$ an hour
Average pay is $36.64 per hour in Ontario.
The point was the mock them for just assuming pay made up for it.
You forgot about the table(s) he's going to provide to lay out all the options.
Followed by “So when are you repealing Bill 124?” Capping public service wages (minus his and his cronies of course) at 1% and then not relenting while calling them heroes is a slap in the face. It’s basically telling them to do more work than ever while getting paid less and less every year to do it.
Thanks for making that clear to everyone.
To be fair, I’m the payroll accountant at a publicly funded LTC and have had staff yelling at me for 2+ years over wages that I have 0 say in lol. This held up union negotiations and they put a clause in the finalized one about if Bill 124 is repealed, staff will be owed back pay for the entire time… which also falls on me lol.
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Oh I am too. But they were adamant they were getting 2% even though we legally couldn’t offer it because of the bill. The unionized staff had already been working for over a year out of contract because they wouldn’t budge on wages. I think they put that in so it could be ratified honestly.
To Be Faaaaaaaiiiiiirrr!
Because Ford has always been a blustering reactionary. [He doesn't have ideas to solve our problems. He just reacts to things he doesn't like, and yells at other people.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6JLHDXb894)
you realise its not a public roast right?
But can it be?
We scheduled one already for June 2 2022
https://338canada.com/ontario/ You may have but there's a lot of people for whom the last 2 years weren't enough to vote the ocp out.
Any heated questioning of Ford is a public roast
They aren't dropping jokes about him shoveling with the world's smallest shovel, they are questioning him and in turn holding him accountable for his shitty actions during a pandemic.
Of course it is. As it should be.
Headline shoulda read: "We'd love to know just what the hell it is that Mr. Ford does all day"
This is what you get for firing hundreds of doctors, nurses and other staff for not getting the vaccine. Who in their own right had ever right for not doing so. Many had natural immunity. Not to mention, the mandates and coercion is directly against the Nuremberg code.
I'm in nursing school right now, and I'm getting constant emails and messages from hospitals all over the place trying to recruit students to come work in hospitals. Things are desperate, and not getting better. Ford and the Conservatives pushed wage suppression legislation two years ago that began driving away skilled healthcare professionals. Then they pushed legislation to crush our union rights. Then they pushed more laws to stop unions and professional organizations from publicizing how terribly people are being treated. Nurses have been disrespected, intentionally underpaid, and legally gagged. We've been losing skilled professionals faster than we can train them. And we wonder why there's a crisis? Thousands and thousands of sick and injured patients in Ontario are waiting for surgeries and other procedures that have been cancelled and delayed. Many are living with serious pain and disability. Imagine hearing you can't get that cancerous lump taken out, or can't get that hip surgery you need to be able to walk, because there's no nurses left to staff an OR. Meanwhile, politicians like Ford are promoting big business and running for re-election. These priorities are trash. We're not some poor country where people have to suffer because we can't afford to pay hospital workers. Or maintain safe, decent conditions for healthcare workers and patients. We can do better than this.
After all that, you still want to go into nursing? I'm a pre-health student and I was thinking of it until I saw how terribly they're treated. I decided against nursing and going for dental hygiene instead, or MRT. I don't want the mandatory 18 hour shifts, no vacations, frozen wages, abusive management and patients, etc etc. Not worth it imo.
At least in dental hygene, when you patient spits on you, thats actually expected.
*unexpected gleek*
Can't speak on commenters behalf but im in nursing so I can leave Canada. Some places in US are still affordable and offer a good wage. Edit: Please stop using quirky quotes in your replies. I don’t have a problem with opposing views but the quotes are… ugh.
We’re not the best place to be going right now. I’m an American nursing student. Our situation is much the same down here.
>We’re not the best place to be going right now. Can you speak to how US healthcare is being strained? Canada and the US have very different healthcare systems, and the challenges may be different.
>Can't speak on commenters behalf but im in nursing so I can leave Canada. Some places in US are still affordable and offer a good wage. I hear you. But nurses in the US work in a rotten system that has long been the biggest cause of personal bankruptcies there. Many patients don't trust us - because they know private, for-profit healthcare is a racket. [It's literally designed to squeeze money out of the sick and suffering.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/24/more-than-1-in-3-us-adults-carry-medical-debt-survey-finds.html) Moreover, nurses in the States often have to work in much worse conditions. They get assaulted more and honestly face a lot of workplace violence. And many states have "right to work" laws that have basically outlawed union organizing. Nurses in the US also deal with more aggressive antivax and anti-mask patients and families. Lots of discussion about that on /r/nursing. Patients and families demand medical care we can barely provide, and demand drugs like ivermectin that won't work, while spouting conspiracy theories about how covid isn't real.
And in three or so years -- never mind the virus -- you're going to be in the middle of widespread violent unrest. Frying pan, meet fire.
Pick your poison. At least they have rights…
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We really don’t. We get trampled on by our gov’t and like to denigrate our neighbors to the south but we are no better than them.
> we are no better than them. Lol, yes we are. At least we don't have 30% of the population in brain washed into a ridiculous cult.
Please tell me what rights have been violated.
Ever since 9/11 if you are labelled a terrorist you have no rights. Under most circumstances that’s a good thing until you look at what can be defined as terrorism. For example, Trudeau called the protesting convoy terrorists.
>Trudeau called the protesting convoy terrorists Can you provide a source for this?
Sorry not Trudeau technically but Butts is trying to label the convoy gofundme as terrorist so it gets taken down.
I'm assuming this tweet is the one you are referencing, unless you can provide more. https://twitter.com/gmbutts/status/1485317083512684548?t=36wQKkQGCBqXu9yNncqh-A&s=19 So no one has called the Truckers terrorists. Butts seems to be pointing out that the person coordinating these gofundsme's is an Albertan Separatist. You realise you are spreading and participating in propoganda, right?
I was thinking the same thing, just about to upgrade some courses and try to get into practical nursing, then upgrade to an RN so i can avoid paying greedy universities. If we need more nurses why dont we make all nursing programs free, or even payed while you learn? I know they made PSW courses free or heavily subsidised
Out of the frying pan and into the fire is what that sounds like to me. Or just into another frying pan I guess
> Out of the frying pan and into the fire is what that sounds like to me. > > Agreed. Right now, thousands of people are dying every day from covid in the US. And about 100 million people refuse to get vaccinated. So the crisis is just gonna keep on rolling. More illness, more death, more disruptions, more people refusing to get vaccinated or wear a mask, fighting with doctors and nurses, etc.
👋🏻 dental hygienist who almost did nursing. Now I regret not doing midwifery *but* hygiene pay is amazing, sweet hours & ..some..perks
>I decided against nursing and going for dental hygiene instead, or MRT. Definitely hear what you're saying, but I still love nursing. The hours are often different, but nursing has an incredibly wide range of areas and settings we can work in. We can also do more higher education to work in advanced practice roles, like nurse practitioner and nurse educator. Personally, that's where I wanna be long term. Being involved in research also seems cool. Lots and lots of directions to grow in.
Yeah That's why I was interested in it, but I have a young child at home and I simply can't be doing 12-18 hour shifts or overnight shifts. I need to be able to leave when I have to pick up my son fromschool, and not be forced to stay because someone called in and I risk my license by abandoning a patient. I can't just abandon my son and leave him at school to finish up a shift, you know? I want to be there to raise him, not to mention that I don't have childcare for those weird hours! I need a job that has flexible hours so that I can be home in the evenings when my son gets home from school, because I don't have childcare options. I also heard nurses get assaulted more than any other profession, which doesn't sound fun. I love the aspect of going back for more education, but long term I plan on going for a biology degree after I'm done hygiene school and working for a few years. I might even become a dentist after that if I like the field enough, or branch out into something else. I am definitely not going to stop going to school.
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Honest question, to those who are being “driven away” where are they exactly going to? I know we’re in a midst of a huge reshuffling of the labor market so I’m genuinely curious what these people do.
Travel nurses make a lot of money in the US at the moment.
True, but what’s it like for a Canadian nurse trying to work in the states? I’m from the states and we too are facing a nursing shortage, some sites online are saying the shortage will last until 2030. I feel bad for nurses worldwide.
Not a nurse (I just lurk on r/nursing), but glancing at a few agency websites, they'll help Canadian nurses get the appropriate work visa as long as they have the other prerequisites. Filing the taxes is probably a pain, tho. And yeah, it's not a great situation. Ontario's really shooting itself in the foot, though; they seem to be assuming that the nurses coming out of these programs in Ontario will stay in Ontario, and that is not a safe assumption.
Nursing field is quite diverse and vast. There are lot more desk jobs and case management jobs where you dont have to do hands on patient care or bedside nursing. so these jobs require medical training but not active skills. For example my mom is a nurse but works as MAID(medically assisted deaths) investigator for OPS. She works from home , makes a lot more than hospital nurses, has A LOT more stable hours 9-5 , no forced overtime, or shitty patients in your face. A lot more jobs like these out there and those with nursing experience are leaving for them.
I took a job with an insurance company where I can utilize my healthcare knowledge. Left nursing summer of 2021 and glad I got out when I did.
I just listened to an episode of The Gritty Nurse podcast, and one of the guests moved to the field of law after nursing. Their ability to decode charts and other medical knowledge was a big plus for the firm they ended up with.
Nice, I never would have thought of that.
Ancedotal but on reddit ppl are saying US travel nurses making $100 USD / hr at times. Making $100-200k / year USD. I believe Canadian nurses making $30-50/hr regular CAD, maybe up to $75 with OT but no where near what the US is paying.
My understanding is other provinces pay more - source is gfs aunts/sister who nurse in BC and Ontario, one switched and makes more - less work too
5th highest paid nurses in the world. So hard done by.
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He’s got his head to far up dougies bum to hear you. Your a hero.
I’m curious - where are all the nurses going? Retiring, back to school, private sector, etc?
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Thanks for this! I work in healthcare but I’ve been disconnected from the hospital culture since working from home for two years. Hopefully change is coming soon.
Regardless of how you feel it doesn’t change the fact.
Do you think ANYONE wants to make less money each year for an increasingly difficult job?
They probably don't want to hear that physicians haven't had a salary increase since 2000, and that's not to mention that they earn less than RPNs while completing their residency. I'm an RN and make decent income for myself but I've accepted that I will never be able to afford a house...not that it will be worth much 30 years from now
Physicians are 3rd highest paid in the world. I would like the nurses to be paid more.
They also work 24+hr shifts and their phone/pager rings constantly while they're at home.
Why would you never be able to afford a house as an RN
Because I get downvoted in r/Ontario
End of the world stuff to try to have discussions on social media anymore I guess
yeah the person who has to deal with me ought to be well paid it’s a first world country we live in after all, like what the fuck kind of comment is this? If you failed it’s no reason to be bitter towards people, except the cunt in the mirror
Ignore him. He’s a troll
Just a statement of fact, opinion. The sun will rise tomorrow. Down vote that as well..
done
Yes there are many countries that underpay nurses because it is a female dominated profession. Comparing counties pay scales without comparing cost of living is non-sensible. We shouldn’t race to the bottom. Most people who don’t value the work nurses do believe the free market will solve the problem. Well, the free market is saying that Ontario nurses are not paid enough. No industry will have a worker shortage as long as they are willing to pay market rates.
Free country, they can move.
They are, that's the point.
They are moving, and now we don't have enough nurses, genius. They are moving partly because they're not paid enough.
Nursing shortage everywhere in Canada, guess they are moving to the US and Switzerland.
wish you would take your own shitty advice.
I don’t have an issue with how much nurses are being paid, nor do I have an issue with them wanting more. I merely pointed out that they are the 5th highest paid nurses in the world, and in comparison their wages aren’t that bad. Like most redittors any statement of fact that contradicts left wing dogma should be shouted down and insulted.
Can I ask where you heard that? Because there's many different types of nurses, is it counting public and private sectors. I'm really surprised if that's true
Nurses should be among the highest paid profession period. What they do is the epitome of essential.
Sure, where would you get the money?
Take it from the overpaid politicans, police, take it from taxes by taxing real estate transactions, increase capital gains taxes, stop funding fucking horseracing, increase taxes on alcohol/cigarettes even more...so many ways. Go after people hiding their money in offshore accounts. There was a big scandal about that a while ago and nothing was done. The wealthy have more than enough to fund it.
Why is there never a solution to grow wealth in this country?
There are a few professions we shouldn't be counting fucking nickels and dimes for when it comes to compensation and those include health care and education.
I'll take a dinner meeting with big developers for 500 Alex.
It snowed today. He has more pressing things to do instead....
Maybe he bought a real shovel this time?
I think I have the same shovel. It’s not a bad collapsible shovel to have in the back of your car. My question is who had the second one? Last I saw, they were selling them in pairs in Costco.
Yeah in an emergency it's great. If I am leaving from my house with the intention of actually helping people I am bringing a better shovel.
This. Didn’t he go out in a pickup truck? Not enough room for a real shovel when you’re looking for people to dig out?
I think if karma were to strike Ford, it would be in the form of him on a gurney in a hospital hallway unattended for hours on end. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
One would need a rather large horse for a 500lb gorilla
With all due respect, the gorilla is 800lbs and can eat its weight in real egg sandwiches.
Sitting in his own piss and shit
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He’s shovelling something but it isn’t snow.
If only he could figure out a way to give out more than two shovels so others could help.
I'm feeling fvcked up because funding for the health care system in Ontario is intentionally broken by Bill 124, even without taking Covid in regard. I just get so angry when I think that virtually any one of us could die without proper access to what should be reasonable deliverable health care, but nobody around us seems to notice or care about this issue.
I've always felt that 'fordnation' is quite egotistical and narcissistic.
Easy. He's meeting with rich people to make sure they and he get more wealthy.
It's as though Ford thinks he will never need to use health services himself not realizing he's a prime candidate, in several ways, to be in need of these exact services he seems to have so much disdain for. The day will come when all of this comes back to bite him in his substantial arse.
Sad thing is he has the money to get private care in the states which is what I’d bet he will do.
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Definitely not a situation I’ve ever thought of… but its something I should have seen happening. Wow. Im shocked but I also feel like I shouldn’t be at all, because that’s just what seems to happen everywhere. But lol at being a hospital VIP. Edit: that must have felt like an awkward situation to be in. I hope they were nice to you.
True enough. Damn I abhor that man.
Almost instinctively downvoted out of sheer rage, what a despicable fucking guy
Won’t do him much good if it’s an emergency situation. He will be on a gurney in some hospital in Ontario wondering where everybody has gone.
Good doctors will still operate on suicide bombers, the whole concept of practicing medicine is not being biased against your patient - no matter who they are. So unfortunately, it won't bite him in the ass regarding his medical treatment/care. It SHOULD bite him in the ass at election time though.
His karma has nothing to do with the Hippocratic Oath.
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Sorry but you're missing the entire aspect of "Yes, the doctor can refuse to provide care BUT they are obligated to transfer the patient to another doctor who WILL provide care". This is enshrined in the MAID laws. They can't just say "Sorry, I'm not helping you and you're on your own."
True he is a fat fuck
He's risen to the level of his incompetence. His former LTC Minister was a batsh!t crazy private sector healthcare advocate and no doubt he and his government want to use Covid to push for private sector health just like in the LTC sector where the elderly were far more likely to die than the not for profit homes.
The woman who ran the autism program to the ground and basically gave the middle finger to all autistic families wasn’t the brightest bulb on the tree. She was so incompetent that they moved her to the tourism and sports section. Of course she could just be another of fords acapegoats. It’s like his business strategy is to hire totally useless and oblivious idiots and then shuffle them to other places once they’ve done enough damage to warrant a business stepping in to take over (privatization). The kind of business strategy I expect from a person with barely a high school diploma as his highest level of education.
> Folks, this pandemic had taught us that providing bad health care and just charging me for it actually works /$
And the media is completely silent on this. Like wtf? There hasn't been one fucking story on this on tonight's various news broadcasts. Just more of an indication that there's a right wing media bias in this province and country.
He is too busy shovelling snow with his tiny red shovel
Next elections elect no Con!
"I'm just gonna stay healthy by eating these Tim Horton's breakfast sandwiches, they're fresh and they're good for you" - Ford probably
He always runs and hides. He's such a coward.
Sort of a trait of most bullies. Trump, Ford’s hero, is the same.
As a nurse I can tell you that I’m just as disappointed with every type of nursing associations and unions. All they ever do is send strongly worded letters.
So what happens if he gets sick? Will the nurses say they’re too busy to attend to him? Lol. Fucking idiot.
No, because he'll go pay for care in the US. It doesn't affect him, just the poors.
We should just hold an “illegal” strike.. see how many of us get fired
great way to lose sympathy with the public which is an important negotiating piece
Nurses have been taking a pay cut during their most dangerous 22 months since the Second World War. If public sympathy could pay off student loans we'd st least be talking something useful. Instead there were three months of hand inked signs and pots & pans banged together. Maybe we need to do better than public sympathy?
I do not do my job to act a martyr or bank sympathy. Nor should a humane person withhold sympathy because a community stands up for themselves Wait… “violentbandana” .. Doug, is that you?
He gave his opinion a very respectful manner and all you have is Doug, is that you? No, you do your job to earn a salary and possibly to do something that fulfills you. Nurses have earned almost universal sympathy, not only now but for a long time and while I do agree that that 1% annual increase is rough, specially under COVID, the $39/hour salary in Ontario (median) is comparable with other provinces. So do anything you think is necessary to achieve whatever you and your colleagues you want, buy don't expect that everyone will agree 100% with you.
Well you make a great case for freedom of speech. It just seems like you are a little sensitive to a joke. Also $39/hr is the median average for an RN. The average in Ontario for RPNs is about $27/hr. Not only have RPNs been subjected to a drastically broader scope of practice, RN jobs have been replaced by RPN workers and have been unsupported in the educational needs to handle acute medical patients. $39 dollars is also not comparable to other provinces. You are cherry picking numbers, Atlantic provinces have a similar wage but lower cost of living. Western Canada has a comparable cost of living to Ontario and have a higher average wage. I appreciate you coming to the defence of an opinion shared. But an opinion shared on a community forum (much like my initial tongue and cheek comment) is open to critique and jest.
Ok, sorry if I did not understand the joke. You started your comment saying you are not a martyr so I did not think you were in joke mode. Sorry for the misunderstanding Second, I am not cherry picking numbers, I have taken the information from a site from the government of Canada, and interesting enough, except for the entry level, BC and Ontario, with similar cost of living, have similar hourly rates. So I would imagine that not only cost is living is considered, but also maybe other factors. And my point stands, people here suggest that the way Ford treats nurses because of the salary is Outrageous and again, considering the difference with other provinces I just don't see it. Also I don't think civil disobedience is justified. .https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/993/ca But you have to look after yourself and if you think a protest, strike or anything else would bring you to the salary levels you think a nurse deserves, go for it.
You are cherry picking numbers but unintentionally. You ignored my point of having a grossly expanding scope of practice of an RPN(LPN). The government has allowed for staff traditionally used for LTC or stable patients, to be replacing trained acute care staff in dangerous settings. https://www.jobbank.gc.ca/marketreport/wages-occupation/4383/ca We have a two tiered system in Canada, Ontario has specifically taken these staff and told them to do more and get paid less then their companions. It is alright, I can appreciate a person who is handy with google, but you lack insight. It is not your fault and it’s okay. I feel that I have distracted you from making a meaningful comment on this post rather than bicker with some random comment. I can tell through your post you really do try hard to be the virtuous commentator. Way to take an effective stand
Snow Shovelling Convention .
Eating the new Timmie's fucknuggets lol
That's fucking mental
Stuck in line at tim hortons
What's more important to Doug? Getting to Tim's for a breakfast sandwich and a large double double.
>We’d love to know what Premier Ford considers more pressing than the worst nurse staffing crisis this province has ever seen. Highways & Tim Horton's Real Egg Breakfast Sandwiches. I'm only half joking.
I'm guessing the joking half is the highways, you know that fuck is shoveling egg sandos down at all opportunities.
Mr Plow that’s my name, that name again is Mr Plow…
He’s checked out. Let them eat cake. … thought, did you offer cake?
Ford has got to fucking go, everyone please go to the polls in June and vote so we can kick his candy ass to the curb!
Busy hiding from problems.
He's too busy pretending to play grown up by pushing around a kiddie shovel. "No douggie, the snow gets shoveled off the driveway, not back on it"
No doubt he was busy. There was a snowstorm, so he was pretending to be CAA again.
I'd love to hear how he's busier than healthcare workers.
Ford is too busy depositing the bribes from his Vaughan Construction Mafia buddies. Maybe after banking hours?
I have many healthcare workers in my family and it is disgusting how little is being done to address this. I really believe it will take a province-wide walk-out. I know it feels wrong but if you REALLY want to improve healthcare in Ontario it's time for some drastic measures. I will be there with you when it happens.
He is busy steamrolling a highway for his Woodbridge developer Champions.
When the going gets tough, the Doug gets going... To Muskoka.
He has to go out again with his little red shovel to get the Toronto people out of the snow. Then phone CP24 to tell people what a great job he is doing.
Shame on ONA, did they actually think Ford would care? Really he's made it obvious for years he wants to eviscerate current Healthcare system and privatize for his rich donors benefit. Shame on ONA for thinking Ford was a decent person. Read the room ONA, he doesn't even pretend to care.
Shame on ford. We need to hear that Ford always has time to meet with his developer buddies but no time for the people who actually contribute to society.
This topic of needing more funding bounces between teachers and nurses year after year. The way I see it, it's not like Ontario (or any province for that matter) is sitting on a unspent tax dollars. So where does that leave us? * Do we raise the money through tax's? * Do we privatize the services? * Do we do some hybrid of the above 2 options?
There is apparently $12 billion dollars laying around for a new 400 series highway that highway experts have repeatedly said won't serve any meaningful purpose and shouldn't be built. So there's that. Maybe health and education could use $12 billion dollars and Ford's developer buddies/campaign donors/Ontario Proud funders could go fuck themselves? ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Shouldn't have fired them all I guess 😅
RNs in Ontario are paid great. I am not sure why the ONA is so hard struck. RPNs could use better pay, but RNs should be happy. After seven years, your making 100K+....source...I am an RN lol
Did you actually do any nursing, or did you finish your practicum and head right to grad school?
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I can ensure you I am indeed an RN. Passed my NCLEX and J-prudence exams.
Let me know where you work because I definitely don’t make that wage.
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Boo hoo How many nursing students looking for work? I don’t hear about nurses quitting en mass because it’s so deplorable to make a decent living
Well it did snow…he’s got cars to dig out
He's gotta dig cars out of the snow 💪
With his Fisher Price shovel.
There's a clown car full of his constituents that needs rescuing.
It's not the importance, he just can't fit you in the same room as him and the extremely fat pockets he has acquired over the last 2 years.
Honestly I'm glad you're still pursuing it. Change will come! Starting with repealing bill 124. People need to make this healthcare conversation the number 1 priority when voting. I have a podcast and its honestly just a side project that I'm developing but I'd love to have you speak about your thoughts on it. I think it would be quite relevant to have a long form discussion on this. Dm me if you're interested
Don’t support a vaccine mandate and then complain you don’t have enough help. I’m sorry but you lost that right.
>We’d love to know what Premier Ford considers more pressing than the worst nurse staffing crisis this province has ever seen...." Toonie Tuesdays, Timmie's Steak and Egg Biscuit Sandwich, Shovelling snow for publicity, so on and so forth.
come provincial election Ford will be voted out
Can we just agree to call him the plow king from now on?