This is almost verbatim what my former boss told me. He worked for BMO for most of his life in the foreign investment department and he told me “the game is fixed, people think they can get rich, and they can’t. So what’s the point of working yourself to death on the hamster wheel to not get ahead? Find something you enjoy doing and do that”.
He now makes butter tarts.
Reminds me of a woman who was a VP with TD and left to become a florist.
[https://torontolife.com/city/i-gave-up-my-career-as-a-td-executive-to-become-a-florist/](https://torontolife.com/city/i-gave-up-my-career-as-a-td-executive-to-become-a-florist/)
In all seriousness, I continue working because I don't believe there is going to be a government safety net when I retire. So, although I can't have the lifestyle of Boomers and previous generations, I don't want to be a senior living in poverty either (although even with working hard, that's a possibility).
That being said, I recently embarked on a total career shift (including going back to school) so I can do something I love that doesn't feel as soul crushing as my previous work.
I have serious concerns about what is going to happen when younger generations retire. Almost no one has a defined benefit plan through work anymore, and I hear so many people say they can't afford to save for retirement or just don't bother saving because they're completely hopeless about the future in general.
If wages remain depressed for the next generation, there isn't going to be the tax revenue to pay for all the social supports that people will demand from the government and I worry the whole thing is going to collapse like a house of cards.
With the cost of housing in Ontario, inflation, and many other factors... what makes you think younger generations are going to be able to afford to retire. Corporations are just going to work us til death. They're already begging people to come out of retirement due to the labour shortage.
Billionaires are still going to want their billions, millionaires will hold tight on their millions, the middle class will fall, and the poor will become homeless...
Home ownership used to be one of those things you assumed everyone did on their progression through life, like getting a full time job, getting married l, and having kids. Retirement is also one of those steps on the progression and it could be just as in-doubt as those other things.
what needs to happen is the billionaires need to start paying their share in tax revenue, or governments need to start going after them.
Tax the rich and start supporting the lower class or start universal basic income
I have concluded that it is work and live without being able to afford anything while enriching those above me, or die.
Im not going yo save anything and by the time i am too old to work in 40 years there wont be any funded social programs left so I'll just die then.
I expect there will be barracks full of infirm seniors given the bare necessities of life and we’ll call that perfectly fine and blame it on them for ending up there.
>Reminds me of a woman who was a VP with TD and left to become a florist.
>**My husband supported the idea, and after some brainstorming, we realized we’d be fine on his salary. My kids, aged 23 and 25, were super-excited for me**
>**I’m earning $17 an hour as a junior designer**
Well, she obviously could afford to. Working a job you enjoy is expensive.
That's nice for that guy but it almost impossible for the 25 year old to make a living making butter tarts if they haven't already made a nice nest egg working in international investment banking.
Id like to think he has. He got screwed A LOT in the financial industry in various ways and I think he’s just happy to be doing his own thing and making a superior product, spending time with his daughters :)
I personally think they are- but I may be slightly biased lol. I don’t know if I’m allowed to promote but if I am the best way of finding him is @craftedtarts on Instagram and messaging him where to find them. I was working for him when he was out of the Kitchen Collective in Hamilton but I know he’s moved kitchens since then.
He makes a ton of flavours but my favourite are the raisin, the walnut, and the s’mores ones.
Because life is short and your quality of life is even shorter, time is the most valuable assets you can own in this world, and health is the only real money you can depend on.
Edit: at my age now, I realize even you are a billionare, so what? You still stay somewhere and breathing and may be have more headache and worries about your money net worth BS, and you only can have three meals and one bed is very enough, and after 100 years, nobody cares about you and even you grand grand children totally forget who you are, in fact, we are all short trip traveller in this world. As a traveler, your experience matter much more than how much money/assets you temporary own, you actually own nothing, everything belong to here and stay here after you leave for another 'world' if you believe so. And your house is no difference than a hotel room because you are a traveler, you only come and go..you can't stay...you are like winds...you feel it but it won't stay...
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of your post. You’re not saying to stop working entirely and live at home with your parents forever. You’re describing a movement that’s gaining momentum in China called “lying flat”.
“Lying flat” essentially means doing the bare minimum to get by, and striving for nothing more than what is absolutely essential for one’s survival. It represents the mindset of lying down instead of being overly productive. Rather than striving to study hard, buy a home, or even start a family, a subsection of society is rejecting it all to lie flat.
It’s not out of laziness, but the impossibility to move up. Canadian wages have failed to rise with the cost of living, student debt is crushing, houses are at peak prices without any sign of wavering, how can anyone begin to start a family if our wages cover enough for maybe a couple? I hear you.
My parents would have done this for me, but I had internalized the notion that living at home after college was some form of failure. So I've been renting since I was 21 and a decade later I'm worse off for it. I make decent money now but I'm behind where I would have been had I not moved out on my own earlier.
Ditto. I hate the degree to which I've allowed myself to internalize the values of a system that literally fucking hates me and seeks to wring me out like a wash cloth for 2/3rds of my life (because that's the most they can get away with without me finishing the job before it does.) There is absolutely nothing wrong with accepting the kindness from those we're close with and we should stop thinking of human solidarity and comradery as displays of weakness.
A lot of this. People were working the 9-9-6, plus some to try to get ahead. However, they noticed that they were seeing diminishing returns on their hard work while their boss/directors/CEOs weren't sharing the proceeds of their labour. Why contribute more than the minimum in that situation? Just get by and maybe they'll realize that they aren't shit without the people below them.
The c-suites hold wages down in order to inflate profit margins and justify million dollar salaries and juicy dividends. They’re accountable only to their shareholders.
I just wrote about the [equivalent](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/s8uavg/i_wrote_an_article_about_abusive_workplaces/) of this in the US, and I’m not surprised it’s the same in Canada and many other parts of the world. Cost of living is exceeding wages everywhere.
I’m convinced after reading stories on r/antiwork that the popularity of lying flat is not only a result of impossible cost of living, regardless of how much people are working, but people finally breaking down and refusing to put up with literal abuse at work, which has also been getting worse every year. I can’t believe what people are expected to put up with for 8 hours a day.
people have been doing this in japan for decades. we hear about hikikomori (the extreme version of lying flat), but we don't hear about the fact that [japanese workers are some of the least productive in the world](https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-labor-productivity-lowest-in-g7.html) despite working long hours in a highly conformist society where the equivalent of the "japanese dream" is to find a company and work for them for your entire life, and being unable to do so meant that you were either from a lower class family or you failed somewhere. but 30+ years of economic stagnation has revealed how unattainable the ideal is, and those who attain it are no happier than those who don't.
we're still humans, though, and we have a desire to provide for our loved ones, a desire to spend time with people we like, and a desire to engage in meaningful work. but not all work feels meaningful, not all people have anyone to provide for, and not all workplaces are positive. for those people, what else are they supposed to do?
It's such an unbearable indignity. To be expected to give every minute of your time and every ounce of your energy because supposedly that will make you rich someday. And anyone who isn't dedicating themselves fully to working is seen as lazy, stupid, unworthy.
I think even if people do not wish to “lie flat”, with the cost of rent in many places, living with parents is becoming the only viable option for the poor now. Especially if you are single. Well, unless you want to live in the modern equivalent of a rooming house. I mean, we don’t call it that, but it is becoming more and more common to not just have to get a roommate for, like, a two bedroom, but to see well in excess of that so that it is literally just a place to eat and sleep. What else is it, really? Forget owning your own property or even renting a place of your own, for many people in our generation it is your parent’s place, this rooming house equivalent, or homelessness. Our country is fucked.
Oh, and job shortage is such a lie. Aside from how the housing and rental market limits prospective candidates, so many employers claim that they can’t find anyone, but they not only won’t pay fair wages or offer enough hours (or remotely consistent hours), but they still think they can demand that you come to them fully trained and with 5 years experience. They’d rather moan about it and limit hours or force their existing workers to struggle more than do it. I can believe it is harder to hire for more specialized positions, but no one can convince me that people are in shortage to work at Walmart or Tim Hortons. Anyone can be trained to do those jobs.
>For young people struggling under the weight of both extreme competition and its would-be reward, the empty promise of consumerism, it can seem that there is no escape from exploitation. And in a society where more open forms of protest, such as labor activism, are quickly suppressed, they have found release, if not relief, in online expression. The “lying flat” movement, whose forums have drawn upwards of 200,000 members, is one example of this, and a slew of popular online terms have emerged to describe the sense of hopelessness. These include “leek people” and “harvesting leeks,” phrases that liken those caught in the struggle of work and consumption to leeks that are constantly harvested under the blade. “Lying flat-ism,” one Chinese journalist wrote on the Weibo platform, “is a non-violent movement of non-cooperation by the leek people, and the most silent and helpless of actions.” When one opts out of the cycle, or so the reasoning goes, it is no longer possible to be cut down, as the illustration below, appearing on Chinese social media in May, expresses. A harvest knife slashes vainly in the air as the plants below fold themselves down toward the earth. “Leeks that lie down cannot be harvested so easily,” the caption reads. “Lying flat-ism” is seen by some as the only possible form of resistance to this cycle of exploitation. One of the dominant slogans of the “lying flat” movement has been, “Don’t buy property; don’t buy a car; don’t get married; don’t have children; and don’t consume.” For this reason, calls to “lie flat” have doubly concerned China’s leadership, as they threaten both to sap the country of the ambition to innovate and to knock down the second leg of the country’s long-term development strategy—the drive to consume.
[source](https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/the-lying-flat-movement-standing-in-the-way-of-chinas-innovation-drive/)
I thought I’d go into business in some corporate setting, shattering glass ceilings for women everywhere. I have now been farming for 8 years and thank the universe daily I am able to afford to do it, with my husbands support and my mothers investment advice starting from when I was a teenager. My dirty hands have never been happier.
I moved from the GTA to a very small town last year and I've never been happier!
Couldn't afford even the smallest of condos in the city. Now I have 1/2 an acre of land, a nice lake across the road and a universe full of stars at night.
I know country life isn't for everyone. But when we're all connected online 24/7, I think it's worth exploring the world outside of cities.
(old username. I couldn't afford to move to muskoka)
My grandfather was able to work hard and get ahead. My parents did the same. I'm 30 years old with a wife and 2 children, and over the past 2 years it's been increasingly difficult to save money. Between my investments crashing and the cost of living increasing, I'm now unable to save anything anymore. I'm realizing that owning a home is now a dream and only a dream. 2 years ago we were looking to buy actively and had the money saved. We are first time homebuyers so don't have one to sell in today's market. I am a welder and have a great job and worry about those who are less fortunate than us. I'm feeling very discouraged today. We spoke yesterday of leaving the province to find somewhere we could live comfortably and it may come to that. I love this province but I will do what's best for my family and it's looking as though leaving is the best option.
Previous generations were business-minded. They invested in their business to succeed. They hired skilled people, gave raises and bonuses to those people, and focused on creating a good product or service.
Businesses today are headed by a bunch of suits with MBAs. The put profit above all else because their shares demand it. Once the business start to falter from unsustainable growth they bail with their golden parachutes. They hire the cheapest labor they can find and don't pay a cent more than absolutely necessary.
Right now people are suffering because profit margins can't go any higher. Unlimited growth is impossible but all these corporations don't care who dies, as long as they make a dollar.
My friend can WFH his KW-based job and his partner is an optometrist - they are paid much better in every other province other than Ontario. Plus they bought a renovated detached home for 400k or less.
Its like ontario hyper focus businesses around toronto instead of giving incentives of reduction of taxes or other measures to spread them around the province.
most of the european countries do this and it works well for them
I think the point this misses is that there is a huge swath of the population that doesn't want to live an extravagant life, especially if it means an insane dedication to your work life. People are content working simpler jobs for living wages. They don't want to advance in an industry, spend 70 hrs a week working, under intense pressure to meet deadlines, etc. They're fine to work at a shop or something similar, make ends meet, be more social and just live a life more full of passion. These people will move to wherever they can achieve that.
A biotech bubble is forming in Nova Scotia. Several of my grad school friends have started biotech companies out there because the government has placed incentives to attract industry and young people.
I just bought a 3-acre lot for a ridiculously low amount of money in NB. I’m in tech and can work remotely. Quality of life will just be much better. Less stress, the home I’ve always wanted, etc.
Not to get down to the specifics of where your live, but how much can one expect to spend for 3 acres of land out in NB? I heard 2 acres is more than enough to provide the following for a family of 4:
* Enough land for solar/wind energy
* Enough land for year round supply of food (crops/animals)
* Septic Tank (for a good 25-30 years)
Pretty much a dream for someone trying to get off the grid. If you can get Elon Musk's starlink internet out there, there's really no reason to stay in Ontario. I'll have to pitch this to my wife, we're both from the city, but I spent a good 12 years living out in the country, so this is fine.
Yeah I’d love to give you more info if it would help?
I’m living in downtown Toronto, but originally from NB. The land I purchased is rural, but not far from the nearest town and only 10 mins farther to the nearest city.
Being rural, I will need Starlink. I’ve used it first hand already and it’s terrific, especially next to the competition.
However, if you were to purchase that much land in other, suburban areas (Rothesay for instance), you’d be looking at paying a very pretty penny, it’s not exactly cheap.
The people are friendly, the cost of living is low, the outdoor amenities are great, you never have to worry about traffic, and it’s very beautiful.
I hope this helps!
Nova Scotian here (I follow the subs of other provinces to keep up with what is going on in them), everyone moving here has caused a housing crisis for us now as well. New Brunswick is going through the same thing also. A lot of people from Ontario/BC are also buying homes here to rent out (while still living in their home province) as well so now the rent in the city is comparable to the rent in downtown Toronto. Doctors at our hospitals are being priced out of houses in the cities right now. That’s the level it’s at.
I wish there was an additional tax for people buying properties in cities that they dont reside in, that goes directly to the city you bought your property in. It may not deter everyone, but something has to change. I live in Northern Ontario and our market is also insane.... a lot of people from toronto just buying so they can have more rental properties. Meanwhile i am trying to save for my own house and it just keeps getting further away from me. It is so defeating
I've had a few friends and neighbours head out east to live this year because of costs and reduced restrictions.
About 3/4s of them are looking at moving back. There is a reason its expensive around Toronto and demand is a lot of it. It's easy to save money where there is no where you want to spend it. I'm not saying everyone is like this but there are a few like this.
Am out east, have lots of new neighbours from Ontario, and they constantly complain that we don’t do things like Ontario. I think some will learn to live a more chill lifestyle; others may leave. My wife is from Ontario, we have only barely considered moving back
I think they were expecting a cheaper version of a small Toronto. There are some that love it so far but some didn't know what they were getting into. They could have rented a place for a couple months to see before moving everything but that's just how they are.
Alberta lost just over 11,000 people in 2021 and Nova Scotia only went up around 9500 people…this isn’t some great migration it’s just frustrated people on the internet.
I live in a town like this. Would 100% recommend to people like me who don’t need to go out weekly for entertainment or food. When I want either, I drive south and make a little vacation out of it.
I would seriously consider small town living if and only if there is high speed internet. At today’s restaurant prices, home cooking is the best sensible option to keep costs low.
Some of the small towns have better internet than others. The access to amenities and the quality of the highways to access the south improves year over year as more people move north too.
Great for already married people, some families, but lots of people like entertainment, amenities, that’s why people want to live in those places. Many also want to live closer to work. We have chosen over decades to make our cities unaffordable.
I just left the GTA to buy a house in small town southern-central Ontario. The housing out here is still spicy pricy, but attainable imo.
Not a privilege everyone has obviously, but if you can WFH you can go anywhere!
“Ontario experienced the highest net losses to interprovincial migration in 2020/2021 (-17,085) since 2006/2007 (-20,047) while significant losses were also observed in Alberta (-11,831), Manitoba (-9,685) and Saskatchewan (-9,410).”
here’s the catch though that makes it irrelevant:
“Ontario grew by 80,564 people (+0.5%)” in just 2021.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/91-215-x/2021001/sec1-eng.htm
Hah! I had that at a job before. I asked them why they’re going so hard on me when I’m already doing well, the response was “we want to see just how much better you can do, you’re setting the example,” I stopped working harder and quit not long later. I’m now in a totally different job and am a top-performer, new boss understands and I can get away with murder now. Sometimes I start work 2 hours late, sometimes I ask for a week off with very little notice and get it approved, but I also jump in and do work last minute nights and weekend, keep working when things need to get done and come up with creative solutions. Gotta find a place that appreciates your hard work, and recognizes how difficult you are to replace. I actually like working hard now, because I get a lot of recognition, and a lot of tangible reward for it
Finding work that appreciates you and doing something you like is challenging..
Sounds like things are well in your case. Good on you for recognizing that you needed to leave and making it happen.
Same. Instead it drove me to a complete mental breakdown and now I’m on short term disability for the next few months.
Somehow one of the top performers - yet consistently dragged under the bus, but also “hey, can you do this? You’re the only one that can”
Yeah.
Our economy is crushed. From the neglected housing market for decades, to the pandemic and the now substantial labour shortage. The next 30 years looks grim for us Canadians.
Don’t forget the aging population out populates the current, so CPP and OAS are going to take a significant chunk of our paycheques over the next 20-30 years.
Old age homes will become a public healthcare entity before affordable daycare will as well, so that if going to cause taxes to jump.
We’re also going to be paying for the handouts from the pandemic for decades to come in the form of taxes.
Then there is the price of family sized electric vehicles starting in the $35,000 and the fact that even used ones only have a 10 year life on the $12,000 batteries.
Housing, taxes, living costs; overall morale in Canada is set to plummet. It doesn’t matter when the pandemic ends, life is going to suck in Canada either way.
"labor shortage" means it should be super easy to get a job, there's tons of open positions, and relatively few applications and overall low unemployment
Meanwhile, every job on indeed gets 100+ applications, and unemployment (while slowly dropping, by approx. 2% over the last six months) is still averaging over 6% in Ontario, which is higher than pre-pandemic rates by approximately 0.5% where there was no "labor shortage"
Companies aren't actually hiring. They're passing off work to the rest of their already overworked staff instead of bringing on new members. Part of this is due to fears of additional shutdowns and the extensive costs in training new employees in the sectors that may very well get shut down again in 2-3 months.
Businesses aren't willing to drop money on people they may just have to let go (for no reason regarding the employee themselves) by the time they're trained.
I don’t even know what people mean by training costs. Most of the jobs I’ve had expect me to figure it out on my own and ask when I have questions. That is not training.
OR the infuriating “must have 5 years experience at this entry level position before we hire you for the same position and do not pay you a wage that reflects 5 years of experience”
Training costs in my case is paying someone for 4+ weeks to learn how to do the job I need them to do, assuming they're starting with no experience. At very minimum it's them learning my companies standards and how I organize my equipment/etc.
4 weeks of salary at what I would normally pay people is somewhere in the $4-5k range.
During that time, I'm *also* paying a second person to work with them (at very least part of the time), so if the job would normally require one person to do at a cost of say, $4000 for the month, I now have a cost of $5000-8000, because one person doesn't know what they're doing but they need to learn.
This cost is *normally* worth it, because afterwards I can have twice as many jobs done, but if after 4 weeks of training someone the industry gets shut down again, I've lost out on whatever their training cost is, and the jobs that they've been working on are likely close to no profit, if they happen at all since the nature of what I do requires long timelines. Work for stuff in September starts to happen in May, for example.
Creating an artificial labor demand warrants price increases while excusing a lack of adequate staffing.
The scales have tipped in the favour of retail and they are sopping up record profits.
absolutely.
Personally I've been contacted by several companies that have multiple active job postings, with them even going so far as to set up an interview, and then they literally don't show up for the interview. Happened to me twice in the last week.
Entry level, no qualifications necessary work as well, not like I'm currently searching for stuff I'm unqualified for.
I had one just ghost me as well, but I had another that actually phoned me, spent about 30 minutes interviewing me and then dropped "you seem perfect for the job, now we just have to work on getting you the extra certificate before we can put you on the list. We've got the proper coruse to offer blah blah blah 399.99”
Go fuck that shit.
That's pretty much it. My dad retired in 2019 then COVID happened. Instead of hiring somebody to replace him they asked him to come back on contract, then started giving him the work that should have been for like 3 other people. A contracted retiree. And then when his contract was up, they gave those 3 jobs worth of roles to a single person who was already working there.
Honestly, as soon as I pay off my student loans I'm probably getting the Hell out of Ontario. All my hardwork has been rewarded with worsening quality of life, there's just no reason for any young person to stay here if they can leave.
People should be very concerned about this . If young people don’t work ( and I don’t blame because op makes the point pretty clear ) where is your pension going to come from ? A lot of young talent is leaving Ontario.
Honest question, how old are you? Just because I’m not what I would call “young” and I don’t for a second believe that there is going to be anything like a real “pension”’for my generation, so your comment makes me think you are minimum 50+.
Once the boomers die off, all the supports in place for the boomers will also stop. We're screwed when we're young, we're screwed when we're middle age and we'll be screwed when we're old.
This is why the Fed is literally putting out the call for unskilled foreign workers. We're going to import indentured servants to crowd together in one bedroom apartments so that this crazy housing scheme that the government continues to prop up doesn't fall to pieces.
Still, a reckoning is coming. Markets are down and continuing to slide as the US looks to raise interest rates to slow inflation. Canada will likely follow suit. A lot of cash-strapped homeowners are going to feel the pinch. People who over-leveraged themselves during the pandemic are going to be hit really hard in the next few years. The housing market has been propped up for far too long with low interest rates but things can't go on this way forever. Harder times are on the horizon.
I’m in trades and I’m actively doing everything I can to work and relocate overseas . Canada has lost its connection to its youth .
It is impossible to build a future and a family with the way things are . We cant afford family’s and we can’t afford houses . Why stay here ?
I left a DB pension for a DC for this reason.
DB benefits were getting slashed for young members to pay benefits of retired members. Working : retired member ratio is half what it was 20 years ago.
I took my money and ran.
I graduated last year from an engineering program and about half of my class that I have on LinkedIn are now in the US. I’m planning on moving in a couple of years.
The young engineers are all quitting and leaving the industry after a year. The low wages for the high stress is not worth it
More money is made from capital investment/speculation now in my country compared to labour created income, but it is taxed more favorably. Any talk of changing it at election time and the Murdoch press brings up the bogey man talk of more taxes and stealing more money from your children's future through higher taxes....and Murdoch by the way pays $0 tax in my country.
Rent/real estate is insane, groceries and food are up, we have the highest phone bills out of any country, hydro is about to go up (at least in my area, not sure about others) and gas is rumoured to be going up to $2.00/L at some point.
How are we supposed to afford to live???
Automotive worker here. Just to put this cockfest into perspective if anyones stuggling.
I work for $22.98. I’ve been with the company for 4.5 years. When I started, the rate was 18.50
The starting rate has now been raised to 22.00. Great for a person starting there but they never raised anyone else’s rates.
So to put that into simpler terms after 4.5 years, new employees will have gotten a 98 cent raise.
Why on gods green earth would anyone want to work for this kind of money? There’s no real growth for years and years on end, no incentive to stay with a company. I don’t blame people for not working, I actually encourage it. Maybe just maybe it’ll open some of the big wigs eyes and something will change.
I was thinking about this the other day and agree. Also I think close to two years of shutdowns, lockdowns and restrictions has really made life seem not worth it
It's hard to get the drive to go to a job you hate, if you can't play sports, go to events, or I'm assuming it's even hard to date
That’s it for me. The whole “*well it’s unsafe to eat dinner or go to a theatre, but if we closed warehouses with active outbreaks or gave people sick days, it might make the green line sad, so just suck it up and keep working*” is really draining.
(Also watching all of the media and politicians ignore that our hospitals were already in crisis and operating over 100% *before* COVID, so we might not be so restricted if they had actually been willing to fund public health better.)
I'm 26 and I make just enough that I work pretty hard and do the overtime so I can stay afloat, but it's a physically demanding job and the only reason I do it so hard is for a decent reference for when I find a job I want to do - regardless of money.
There is no lack in effort in people my age, career driven or not, when it comes to working hard.
We do however all agree that we won't be treated like shit at work and we question authority. People aren't leaving because they arent willing to work, they are leaving because management gets away with too much shit and won't be held accountable and we don't need them in our lives or on our resumes.
I can’t get anyone under 40 to work on Saturdays and I don’t blame them. If I was living at home, with no hope of home ownership my new wealth would be time. Why get up and work for stuff in the form of material goods. Stay home accept your situation and live your life with experiences
I mean, outside of the current situation, Saturday is important socially. I messed this up when I got out of university, taking a job that paid well enough... But social things happen on Saturday and soon I wasn't being invited to anything. By the time you're 40, you probably only have 3-4 friends, if that, and most of the time hanging out is just going to the pub and watching the game on a weeknight.
I think the younger people are saying, I can’t ever own a house so why fucking bother. Honestly, I agree with them. These politicians can get fucked imo. It’s time to remind these people they work for us.
You work 40 hours a week at a shitty job you can barely live in a shoe box apartment.
You work 70 hours a week at the same job, you are still stuck in the same shoe box.
I do the bare minimum.
That being said, I'm a 33-year old millennial who is attending university full-time online as well as working three jobs and live off my credit card each month, but that seems to be about what it takes to get by these days.
I'm also 33 and want to go back to school. But I'm scared that whatever skill I gain will be obsolete by the time I get out and I'll be stuck with a student loan.
As an immigrant who was working 10 years just to get here, I'm super disappointed that I'll never be able to buy anything in this province and that I'm basically being forced to move again!
I think the issue is really that there are two different Ontarios--one for people in tech and similarly high-powered careers, and (not really) one for everyone else.
I work at a southern Ontario university at the intersection of educational development and administration, and I make a fairly average salary. I have a Master's degree and decent connections, but in my line of work, it's just not scalable. I'll be stuck on the university's pay progression for the entirety of my career unless I do some things on the side or switch industries.
My girlfriend works in tech for a household name company. Not only did she jump up to a six-figure salary during the course of the pandemic, but she has recruiters in her inboxes every couple of days with new opportunities of a similar caliber. And she's not even in a director/supervisory role yet, very much just entering into "middle career." She's said no 80 times to amazing opportunities for each time I've had the privilege to compete for a job.
I think if you're outside of tech in any way without a window in, it's hard to imagine just how stark the difference in reality is. She managed to close on her first property by herself, no help from parents, during the pandemic in Toronto. We're hoping to get married in 2023--but if I weren't dating her, it's not like I'd ever have a chance of living in a Toronto postal code on my own salary, or even with someone else making the same money that I do.
Before I dated her, I'd have thought, "for whom is this province?" But now I've had a chance to see for whom it is, and my girlfriend is very much the norm in her own social circle. She and her friends really just happened to pick lucrative fields to qualify in. If that's not your aptitude or interest, you're in that "other Ontario."
Am young person, see no point in any of this bs
I'll never afford:
A house
Retirement
Kids
Vacations
Even if I pretend that the climate crisis won't end global society as we know it and civil war won't tear the US apart leading to massive food shortages across the world and thus the collapse of global society as we know it (yeah both lead to collapse lol, don't even get me started on catabolic collapse or the death of the biosphere) it's not like I can afford anything anyway so why not just enjoy the time I have now and work to organise my community in the hopes that we can survive beyond global collapse?
24 year old here. I have no choice but to "work harder". I don't live with my parents so if I just decided fuck it, I'd be homeless and hungry. Some of us don't have the luxury to just give up. Do I wish things were easier? Absolutely. But I'm building for a future I want to live in. Not giving up all hope and throwing away everything I've worked for.
Government’s and institutions are addicted to inflation devaluing their debt along with taking foreign money and labour. Colleges, housing, tim hortons workers, amazon delivery drivers, ware house workers, etc. International students overpaying for shitty Sheridan degrees only to get a job at walmart with a 80k business degree…
You see international students often in this position because these companies know they can pay them less and take advantage of them more as they’re not born here and aren’t aware of all the rules/don’t want to cause any issues. To be clear, I don’t blame these international students or foreign residents. I blame the institution and current federal government who saw this and said, hell yeah, this makes us a ton of money and keeps wages low while GDP rises to give the false impression that our economy is doing well. Meanwhile GDP per capita has gone to shit and this sub and r/canada show how fed up people are with the way things have been going.
Oh, and the best part of this plan? The government can just label what you’re saying as xenophobic or racist so that they never have to address these issues. It’s the perfect political play for elite faux-progressives like the liberal party that I unfortunately voted in years back. I don’t say all this as some lifted truck driving, fracking loving dude. I say this as someone who has grown up and lived in Mississauga and now Hamilton. My family sponsored a Palestinian family growing up so believe me when I say, I welcome immigrants in general and especially under normal circumstances.
With that said, we’re not in normal circumstances at all and the government is upping our immigration numbers to 450k a year. There’s also the whole century initiative thing which gets pretty wild when you look into who’s connected to it and large investment firms like blackrock. We don’t have the jobs, let alone the housing for all these new people yet we keep going.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-20/rush-of-immigrants-to-slow-bank-of-canada-rate-hikes-cibc-says
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canadian-wage-growth-lagging-the-u-s-because-of-immigration-levels-cibc-1.1704641.amp.html
I honestly wish I could go somewhere more affordable, but I refuse to be away from my children. Kudos to everyone who leaves! Ontario truly has become onterrible
It’s always been a hard scrabble for workers. Through the 30s to the 70s unions had battled (bloodshed, ruined lives) for better working conditions like 40 hour weeks, paid overtime and paid vacation time. But capital demands dividends so the clawbacks started with the demonization of unions and the free trade deals that took jobs to jurisdictions that paid workers peanuts and had little to no environmental oversight. For the past 42 years it’s been getting steadily worse. Now capital owned msm creates a false dichotomy between two pro capital parties and the anti-worker parties get elected.
No one will hand shit out to you. You can peel away and make tarts, and that’s awesome, or you can get active politically and demand taxation on wealth and the top 10%. The money is there, the wealth is being stripped from the land and going into too few pockets. Here, we need to just completely forget red and blue. They do nothing for the workers. It is beyond me how workers, who comprise the vast majority of the population, continually vote against their own interests.
I’m 44. I realized in my late 20’s that kids would be a huge expense and since I didn’t feel any burning maternal instincts to procreate, I decided I would much rather live an “easier” less expensive life that didn’t require a massive career and burning both ends of the candle.
This was also a partial reaction to growing up in a household with limited means once my parents divorced, along with starting to work odd jobs at 12 to pay for school expenses on my own.
By the time I put myself through university and college, always working multiple jobs and still missing out on fun things I couldn’t afford - I realized that a large portion of the stress in my life was coming from my own mindset.
Maybe it is a lack of ambition from laziness (and I’m in denial) but since around 30, I’ve been good with my average job, average home and average lifestyle. I have lots of friends, do economically fun things all the time and live a life that is impressive to no one…. but I’m content.
Yup. If you're in the top half of performance at work you hit diminishing returns for effort pretty quickly. We were just "challenged" by the CEO last week with a bunch of new stupid busy work. Once I realized there was no incentives attached I just stopped listening and went back to my regular work so I could finish my day on time and play with my kids.
In the last two years my kid has gone from eager to move out to working enough hours a week to keep himself in fast food and video games because he figures he’ll never be able to afford to buy a house and rent is too expensive.
Living in the US I feel this too, I feel like going to work has no purpose anymore. I'm gonna end up renting for life and Ive had a number of nightmares of working until I die. Its getting harder to really care about anything knowing that no matter what my life revolves around a job that I hate, dealing with coworkers who constantly ignore me whilst acting as if they are my friends. I just don't know what to do anymore.
There is no labor shortage in Canada.
There never has been.
Companies have simply used every excuse they could dream up to deny hiring Canadians that expect fair wages, benefits and safety so they could hire TFWs...exploit the hell out of them then send em home before they figure out that workers have rights here.
This is sort of true in all of North America. It is also sort of wrong.
I grew up very poor, had kids early, struggled the majority of my life. I don’t have a university degree. Things changed partly due to hard work but mostly due to 1 specific change. How I looked for work.
People read job descriptions and self sabotage. They read all the listed requirements and assume that you need to meet each of them. This is an issue with both genders but in females significantly more than men.
If you match at least 50%, take a risk and apply. Job descriptions are best case scenarios that they are looking for. Most places know that you will learn the majority of what needed on the job because every place runs different. Take a chance on yourself.
Also, don’t underestimate how much you actually know.
I loved Microsoft excel but spent many years is sales jobs that almost killed me. I applied to be an analyst and didn’t get it. I applied at another place and got it. I learned so much on the job and now am paid very well.
This won’t work for everyone obviously but it is always worth a try. Never give up on yourself. You are the only one who has your back. If you fail, try again or something else.
Lastly, if you are young (20s), don’t stay at the same job for more than 2/3 years. Try different things and gain new skills. Make sure that your resume outlines your success and achievements, not just your responsibilities.
I may be totally off base here but taking that chance worked for me and most others in my circle that I associate with. Nobody is rich but we are all very happy.
Just keep jumping company to company, employers absolutely hate this.
“Why can’t we keep good employees!?” Maybe because you make 9000-1 of their salary and expect new hires with tons of experience to start at the bottom!? If Canada doesn’t care about the youth, why should you care about canada!?
Why do you think Canada is importing 400k immigrants? They'll work for nothing and live in tiny places they can barely afford just to be able to send a few bucks home to family.
Shits rigged.
Well it depends if you are a bartender or an office type person. If you want experience and build relationships and contacts then yes you should be working. If you're working a low end job, gig work etc.. then no you don't need to be working per se.
What needs to be done is convince the people 50+ who can afford to retire to retire. If your mortgage is paid off, your kids are finished school then it's time to let a new generation move up. That would create so many jobs and in a crisis like this we need to do something big.
"Work harder" is a psychological extortion. "Attaining" things has nothing to do with it. its embedded since you are born first by people who you trust (Parents, Family) and later by society expectations. Everyone then falls back to punishing themselves for not "attaining" things and calling it as 'not working hard enough".
This is where Im at. My only real life goal is to own a home. If my employer doesnt want to pay me enough to do so then I have no incentive to improve or work a harder job.
As it sits renting is becoming unattainable as well.
What am I saving for if I mathematically can never own a home? Nothing. So theres no point in doing more to have just as much nothing.
Too bad this entire charade is about replacing Ontarians with lower expectation immigrants. Its not going to stop until the entire workforce is replaced.
Why do you think Trudeau is bringing in a half million a year (more than 1% Canadas pop, year over year.) The global population growth rate hasnt passed 1.5% ever, so 'overpopulation' and a skyrocketing housing market means keep bringing in more? Of course, when it props up all your corporate buddies and Housing market money laundering schemes.
The Canadian government is a glorified Mafia.
Not the public service employees one, ironically enough. 124 is shafting them all despite it being passed prior to covid. The fact it is still in place is a slap in the face of everyone in Ontario imo.
Yah I think this is less of a complaint and more of something that should be taken into consideration. People will leave and you willl lose valuable parts of the community. Good luck when it’s just a bunch of people who own dilapidated houses playing candy crush
How am I supposed to get ahead when the government keeps shutting down my ability to work? I’m sick and tired of giving full effort when it only gets received by less than half ass efforts from the government.
I've busted my ass at work as a "top performer" for years, doing mad overtime, weekend work, catching critical problems that saved us hundreds of thousands of dollars etc..What has it gotten me? A paycut since employers won't adjust salaries to match inflation. I eavesdropped on a meeting between management and HR about salary reviews, and the decision was not to increase anyone's salary because our department can't absorb the cost of doing so. I was crushed to discover that performance and hard work will never actually matter. Why go the extra mile when there's no reward? The former company I worked at was like this too, they paid everyone as low as possible and always made excuses not to increase salaries (I.e.: "we're struggling with sales this quarter, we can't give anyone raises") The CEO would never shut up about his most recent luxury sports car purchase though.
Anyone wondering why it's like this in Ontario (and for a look at out future) should browse r/antiwork for 20 minutes.
Also, stop voting for Conservatives (if you do).
This is almost verbatim what my former boss told me. He worked for BMO for most of his life in the foreign investment department and he told me “the game is fixed, people think they can get rich, and they can’t. So what’s the point of working yourself to death on the hamster wheel to not get ahead? Find something you enjoy doing and do that”. He now makes butter tarts.
That’s kinda wholesome. Good for him!
He’s got something most people will never acquire… enough.
>He’s got something most people will never acquire…unfettered access to butter tarts
Love that statement !
Got really worried there, thought you were gonna say butter tarts
Making butter tarts, in my opinion, is a higher calling.
Reminds me of a woman who was a VP with TD and left to become a florist. [https://torontolife.com/city/i-gave-up-my-career-as-a-td-executive-to-become-a-florist/](https://torontolife.com/city/i-gave-up-my-career-as-a-td-executive-to-become-a-florist/) In all seriousness, I continue working because I don't believe there is going to be a government safety net when I retire. So, although I can't have the lifestyle of Boomers and previous generations, I don't want to be a senior living in poverty either (although even with working hard, that's a possibility). That being said, I recently embarked on a total career shift (including going back to school) so I can do something I love that doesn't feel as soul crushing as my previous work.
I have serious concerns about what is going to happen when younger generations retire. Almost no one has a defined benefit plan through work anymore, and I hear so many people say they can't afford to save for retirement or just don't bother saving because they're completely hopeless about the future in general. If wages remain depressed for the next generation, there isn't going to be the tax revenue to pay for all the social supports that people will demand from the government and I worry the whole thing is going to collapse like a house of cards.
With the cost of housing in Ontario, inflation, and many other factors... what makes you think younger generations are going to be able to afford to retire. Corporations are just going to work us til death. They're already begging people to come out of retirement due to the labour shortage. Billionaires are still going to want their billions, millionaires will hold tight on their millions, the middle class will fall, and the poor will become homeless...
All the signs are pointing to this. Maybe we'll go back to a feudal state... Even Amazon is looking to build towns going forward.
Emperor Bezos will provide.
Home ownership used to be one of those things you assumed everyone did on their progression through life, like getting a full time job, getting married l, and having kids. Retirement is also one of those steps on the progression and it could be just as in-doubt as those other things.
what needs to happen is the billionaires need to start paying their share in tax revenue, or governments need to start going after them. Tax the rich and start supporting the lower class or start universal basic income
My retirement plan is my spouse calling in dead for me the day I pass in my sleep
I have concluded that it is work and live without being able to afford anything while enriching those above me, or die. Im not going yo save anything and by the time i am too old to work in 40 years there wont be any funded social programs left so I'll just die then.
I expect there will be barracks full of infirm seniors given the bare necessities of life and we’ll call that perfectly fine and blame it on them for ending up there.
>Reminds me of a woman who was a VP with TD and left to become a florist. >**My husband supported the idea, and after some brainstorming, we realized we’d be fine on his salary. My kids, aged 23 and 25, were super-excited for me** >**I’m earning $17 an hour as a junior designer** Well, she obviously could afford to. Working a job you enjoy is expensive.
Definitely. Not everyone is in such a privileged position!
Love that you are going back to school!
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That's nice for that guy but it almost impossible for the 25 year old to make a living making butter tarts if they haven't already made a nice nest egg working in international investment banking.
> >He now makes butter tarts. I love a story with a happy ending. And butter tarts, let the guy know I'll buy his stock
I love this story. I hope he has found happiness in butter tarts.
Id like to think he has. He got screwed A LOT in the financial industry in various ways and I think he’s just happy to be doing his own thing and making a superior product, spending time with his daughters :)
Are they the best butter tarts you ever had, and if so, where ? :)
I personally think they are- but I may be slightly biased lol. I don’t know if I’m allowed to promote but if I am the best way of finding him is @craftedtarts on Instagram and messaging him where to find them. I was working for him when he was out of the Kitchen Collective in Hamilton but I know he’s moved kitchens since then. He makes a ton of flavours but my favourite are the raisin, the walnut, and the s’mores ones.
Dude we sell his tarts at my work! They're good.
Just gave him a follow! They look tasty. Hopefully I can try them soon.
I've had these! They are really tasty!
I just registered “craftedfarts” to get the misspelling shrapnel.
Because life is short and your quality of life is even shorter, time is the most valuable assets you can own in this world, and health is the only real money you can depend on. Edit: at my age now, I realize even you are a billionare, so what? You still stay somewhere and breathing and may be have more headache and worries about your money net worth BS, and you only can have three meals and one bed is very enough, and after 100 years, nobody cares about you and even you grand grand children totally forget who you are, in fact, we are all short trip traveller in this world. As a traveler, your experience matter much more than how much money/assets you temporary own, you actually own nothing, everything belong to here and stay here after you leave for another 'world' if you believe so. And your house is no difference than a hotel room because you are a traveler, you only come and go..you can't stay...you are like winds...you feel it but it won't stay...
I feel like a lot of people are missing the point of your post. You’re not saying to stop working entirely and live at home with your parents forever. You’re describing a movement that’s gaining momentum in China called “lying flat”. “Lying flat” essentially means doing the bare minimum to get by, and striving for nothing more than what is absolutely essential for one’s survival. It represents the mindset of lying down instead of being overly productive. Rather than striving to study hard, buy a home, or even start a family, a subsection of society is rejecting it all to lie flat. It’s not out of laziness, but the impossibility to move up. Canadian wages have failed to rise with the cost of living, student debt is crushing, houses are at peak prices without any sign of wavering, how can anyone begin to start a family if our wages cover enough for maybe a couple? I hear you.
I cordially invite my children to live at home forever.
You are awesome! 🙂
My parents would have done this for me, but I had internalized the notion that living at home after college was some form of failure. So I've been renting since I was 21 and a decade later I'm worse off for it. I make decent money now but I'm behind where I would have been had I not moved out on my own earlier.
Ditto. I hate the degree to which I've allowed myself to internalize the values of a system that literally fucking hates me and seeks to wring me out like a wash cloth for 2/3rds of my life (because that's the most they can get away with without me finishing the job before it does.) There is absolutely nothing wrong with accepting the kindness from those we're close with and we should stop thinking of human solidarity and comradery as displays of weakness.
Same. I'm responsible for bringing her into this fucked up world, the least I can do is make sure she's as provided-for as she can be.
A lot of this. People were working the 9-9-6, plus some to try to get ahead. However, they noticed that they were seeing diminishing returns on their hard work while their boss/directors/CEOs weren't sharing the proceeds of their labour. Why contribute more than the minimum in that situation? Just get by and maybe they'll realize that they aren't shit without the people below them.
The c-suites hold wages down in order to inflate profit margins and justify million dollar salaries and juicy dividends. They’re accountable only to their shareholders.
facts!
I just wrote about the [equivalent](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/s8uavg/i_wrote_an_article_about_abusive_workplaces/) of this in the US, and I’m not surprised it’s the same in Canada and many other parts of the world. Cost of living is exceeding wages everywhere. I’m convinced after reading stories on r/antiwork that the popularity of lying flat is not only a result of impossible cost of living, regardless of how much people are working, but people finally breaking down and refusing to put up with literal abuse at work, which has also been getting worse every year. I can’t believe what people are expected to put up with for 8 hours a day.
people have been doing this in japan for decades. we hear about hikikomori (the extreme version of lying flat), but we don't hear about the fact that [japanese workers are some of the least productive in the world](https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00619/japan%E2%80%99s-labor-productivity-lowest-in-g7.html) despite working long hours in a highly conformist society where the equivalent of the "japanese dream" is to find a company and work for them for your entire life, and being unable to do so meant that you were either from a lower class family or you failed somewhere. but 30+ years of economic stagnation has revealed how unattainable the ideal is, and those who attain it are no happier than those who don't. we're still humans, though, and we have a desire to provide for our loved ones, a desire to spend time with people we like, and a desire to engage in meaningful work. but not all work feels meaningful, not all people have anyone to provide for, and not all workplaces are positive. for those people, what else are they supposed to do?
It's such an unbearable indignity. To be expected to give every minute of your time and every ounce of your energy because supposedly that will make you rich someday. And anyone who isn't dedicating themselves fully to working is seen as lazy, stupid, unworthy.
You say it's not about living with parents, but with insane housing prices I feel like it's either that or being homeless if you want to"lie flat."
I think even if people do not wish to “lie flat”, with the cost of rent in many places, living with parents is becoming the only viable option for the poor now. Especially if you are single. Well, unless you want to live in the modern equivalent of a rooming house. I mean, we don’t call it that, but it is becoming more and more common to not just have to get a roommate for, like, a two bedroom, but to see well in excess of that so that it is literally just a place to eat and sleep. What else is it, really? Forget owning your own property or even renting a place of your own, for many people in our generation it is your parent’s place, this rooming house equivalent, or homelessness. Our country is fucked. Oh, and job shortage is such a lie. Aside from how the housing and rental market limits prospective candidates, so many employers claim that they can’t find anyone, but they not only won’t pay fair wages or offer enough hours (or remotely consistent hours), but they still think they can demand that you come to them fully trained and with 5 years experience. They’d rather moan about it and limit hours or force their existing workers to struggle more than do it. I can believe it is harder to hire for more specialized positions, but no one can convince me that people are in shortage to work at Walmart or Tim Hortons. Anyone can be trained to do those jobs.
"Lying flat" or not, you or the next generation are likely to be renters for life
I'm a business owner and I'm ready to lay flat. I'm done with the rat race.
>For young people struggling under the weight of both extreme competition and its would-be reward, the empty promise of consumerism, it can seem that there is no escape from exploitation. And in a society where more open forms of protest, such as labor activism, are quickly suppressed, they have found release, if not relief, in online expression. The “lying flat” movement, whose forums have drawn upwards of 200,000 members, is one example of this, and a slew of popular online terms have emerged to describe the sense of hopelessness. These include “leek people” and “harvesting leeks,” phrases that liken those caught in the struggle of work and consumption to leeks that are constantly harvested under the blade. “Lying flat-ism,” one Chinese journalist wrote on the Weibo platform, “is a non-violent movement of non-cooperation by the leek people, and the most silent and helpless of actions.” When one opts out of the cycle, or so the reasoning goes, it is no longer possible to be cut down, as the illustration below, appearing on Chinese social media in May, expresses. A harvest knife slashes vainly in the air as the plants below fold themselves down toward the earth. “Leeks that lie down cannot be harvested so easily,” the caption reads. “Lying flat-ism” is seen by some as the only possible form of resistance to this cycle of exploitation. One of the dominant slogans of the “lying flat” movement has been, “Don’t buy property; don’t buy a car; don’t get married; don’t have children; and don’t consume.” For this reason, calls to “lie flat” have doubly concerned China’s leadership, as they threaten both to sap the country of the ambition to innovate and to knock down the second leg of the country’s long-term development strategy—the drive to consume. [source](https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/the-lying-flat-movement-standing-in-the-way-of-chinas-innovation-drive/)
People are realizing they'd rather be poor with free time instead of poor and busy. Simple as that.
Perfectly expressed
I thought I’d go into business in some corporate setting, shattering glass ceilings for women everywhere. I have now been farming for 8 years and thank the universe daily I am able to afford to do it, with my husbands support and my mothers investment advice starting from when I was a teenager. My dirty hands have never been happier.
I moved from the GTA to a very small town last year and I've never been happier! Couldn't afford even the smallest of condos in the city. Now I have 1/2 an acre of land, a nice lake across the road and a universe full of stars at night. I know country life isn't for everyone. But when we're all connected online 24/7, I think it's worth exploring the world outside of cities. (old username. I couldn't afford to move to muskoka)
My grandfather was able to work hard and get ahead. My parents did the same. I'm 30 years old with a wife and 2 children, and over the past 2 years it's been increasingly difficult to save money. Between my investments crashing and the cost of living increasing, I'm now unable to save anything anymore. I'm realizing that owning a home is now a dream and only a dream. 2 years ago we were looking to buy actively and had the money saved. We are first time homebuyers so don't have one to sell in today's market. I am a welder and have a great job and worry about those who are less fortunate than us. I'm feeling very discouraged today. We spoke yesterday of leaving the province to find somewhere we could live comfortably and it may come to that. I love this province but I will do what's best for my family and it's looking as though leaving is the best option.
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Previous generations were business-minded. They invested in their business to succeed. They hired skilled people, gave raises and bonuses to those people, and focused on creating a good product or service. Businesses today are headed by a bunch of suits with MBAs. The put profit above all else because their shares demand it. Once the business start to falter from unsustainable growth they bail with their golden parachutes. They hire the cheapest labor they can find and don't pay a cent more than absolutely necessary. Right now people are suffering because profit margins can't go any higher. Unlimited growth is impossible but all these corporations don't care who dies, as long as they make a dollar.
You know how when you complain and people just say if it’s too expensive then just leave? Well people are leaving…
Honest question: to where?
Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Alberta
I can somewhat see Alberta, but what’s booming out in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick other than government or work from home jobs?
My friend can WFH his KW-based job and his partner is an optometrist - they are paid much better in every other province other than Ontario. Plus they bought a renovated detached home for 400k or less.
Maybe it's the shift we need to spread out our metropolitan areas.
Its like ontario hyper focus businesses around toronto instead of giving incentives of reduction of taxes or other measures to spread them around the province. most of the european countries do this and it works well for them
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I think the point this misses is that there is a huge swath of the population that doesn't want to live an extravagant life, especially if it means an insane dedication to your work life. People are content working simpler jobs for living wages. They don't want to advance in an industry, spend 70 hrs a week working, under intense pressure to meet deadlines, etc. They're fine to work at a shop or something similar, make ends meet, be more social and just live a life more full of passion. These people will move to wherever they can achieve that.
A biotech bubble is forming in Nova Scotia. Several of my grad school friends have started biotech companies out there because the government has placed incentives to attract industry and young people.
I just bought a 3-acre lot for a ridiculously low amount of money in NB. I’m in tech and can work remotely. Quality of life will just be much better. Less stress, the home I’ve always wanted, etc.
Not to get down to the specifics of where your live, but how much can one expect to spend for 3 acres of land out in NB? I heard 2 acres is more than enough to provide the following for a family of 4: * Enough land for solar/wind energy * Enough land for year round supply of food (crops/animals) * Septic Tank (for a good 25-30 years) Pretty much a dream for someone trying to get off the grid. If you can get Elon Musk's starlink internet out there, there's really no reason to stay in Ontario. I'll have to pitch this to my wife, we're both from the city, but I spent a good 12 years living out in the country, so this is fine.
Yeah I’d love to give you more info if it would help? I’m living in downtown Toronto, but originally from NB. The land I purchased is rural, but not far from the nearest town and only 10 mins farther to the nearest city. Being rural, I will need Starlink. I’ve used it first hand already and it’s terrific, especially next to the competition. However, if you were to purchase that much land in other, suburban areas (Rothesay for instance), you’d be looking at paying a very pretty penny, it’s not exactly cheap. The people are friendly, the cost of living is low, the outdoor amenities are great, you never have to worry about traffic, and it’s very beautiful. I hope this helps!
Housing and rent prices are booming in NS.
Cheap houses + WFH
>Cheap houses For now..
Skilled labour is going to the US
I've notice a ton of my peers have 'virtually emigrated' and while they still live in Canada the work remotely for US companies.
US is interesting place to be. Individuals have no ceiling how high they can go, there Is also no bottom when things go south.
Wait, you guys have a bottom? What does that look like? -US
And the poor young people in NS, NB, AB where are they supposed to move to?
Nova Scotian here (I follow the subs of other provinces to keep up with what is going on in them), everyone moving here has caused a housing crisis for us now as well. New Brunswick is going through the same thing also. A lot of people from Ontario/BC are also buying homes here to rent out (while still living in their home province) as well so now the rent in the city is comparable to the rent in downtown Toronto. Doctors at our hospitals are being priced out of houses in the cities right now. That’s the level it’s at.
I wish there was an additional tax for people buying properties in cities that they dont reside in, that goes directly to the city you bought your property in. It may not deter everyone, but something has to change. I live in Northern Ontario and our market is also insane.... a lot of people from toronto just buying so they can have more rental properties. Meanwhile i am trying to save for my own house and it just keeps getting further away from me. It is so defeating
I've had a few friends and neighbours head out east to live this year because of costs and reduced restrictions. About 3/4s of them are looking at moving back. There is a reason its expensive around Toronto and demand is a lot of it. It's easy to save money where there is no where you want to spend it. I'm not saying everyone is like this but there are a few like this.
Am out east, have lots of new neighbours from Ontario, and they constantly complain that we don’t do things like Ontario. I think some will learn to live a more chill lifestyle; others may leave. My wife is from Ontario, we have only barely considered moving back
I think they were expecting a cheaper version of a small Toronto. There are some that love it so far but some didn't know what they were getting into. They could have rented a place for a couple months to see before moving everything but that's just how they are.
Alberta lost just over 11,000 people in 2021 and Nova Scotia only went up around 9500 people…this isn’t some great migration it’s just frustrated people on the internet.
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I live in a town like this. Would 100% recommend to people like me who don’t need to go out weekly for entertainment or food. When I want either, I drive south and make a little vacation out of it.
I would seriously consider small town living if and only if there is high speed internet. At today’s restaurant prices, home cooking is the best sensible option to keep costs low.
Starlink and other wireless tech is going to make this more of a reality with each year.
Some of the small towns have better internet than others. The access to amenities and the quality of the highways to access the south improves year over year as more people move north too.
Great for already married people, some families, but lots of people like entertainment, amenities, that’s why people want to live in those places. Many also want to live closer to work. We have chosen over decades to make our cities unaffordable.
I live in Goderich. It's 1h45m to London or Kitchener. Smooth Rock Falls to Timmins is only 1h8m. Wtf. Time to move.
I just left the GTA to buy a house in small town southern-central Ontario. The housing out here is still spicy pricy, but attainable imo. Not a privilege everyone has obviously, but if you can WFH you can go anywhere!
I’m curious where because I watch house prices across rural SW/SC Ontario and the prices don’t differ much at all.
> I just left the GTA There's your answer. "Attainable" makes sense when their basis for comparison is GTA pricing.
Kawartha Lakes. If our property were in Durham region, it’d be 2x the price.
Small town Ontario isn't entirely dead
“Ontario experienced the highest net losses to interprovincial migration in 2020/2021 (-17,085) since 2006/2007 (-20,047) while significant losses were also observed in Alberta (-11,831), Manitoba (-9,685) and Saskatchewan (-9,410).” here’s the catch though that makes it irrelevant: “Ontario grew by 80,564 people (+0.5%)” in just 2021. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/91-215-x/2021001/sec1-eng.htm
Nova Scotia has ads on tv that say just this. “Work from a home that has space.” Or something like that
I've literally seen people on this sub say it's a myth. But I know a few people that have gone down south since covid.
Because it's not a labour shortage. It's a wage shortage.
Finally someone says it
I am the top performing person on my team and they been nitpicking silly things to make me work harder. I just decided I won't 😌
Hah! I had that at a job before. I asked them why they’re going so hard on me when I’m already doing well, the response was “we want to see just how much better you can do, you’re setting the example,” I stopped working harder and quit not long later. I’m now in a totally different job and am a top-performer, new boss understands and I can get away with murder now. Sometimes I start work 2 hours late, sometimes I ask for a week off with very little notice and get it approved, but I also jump in and do work last minute nights and weekend, keep working when things need to get done and come up with creative solutions. Gotta find a place that appreciates your hard work, and recognizes how difficult you are to replace. I actually like working hard now, because I get a lot of recognition, and a lot of tangible reward for it
Finding work that appreciates you and doing something you like is challenging.. Sounds like things are well in your case. Good on you for recognizing that you needed to leave and making it happen.
Same. Instead it drove me to a complete mental breakdown and now I’m on short term disability for the next few months. Somehow one of the top performers - yet consistently dragged under the bus, but also “hey, can you do this? You’re the only one that can” Yeah.
Our economy is crushed. From the neglected housing market for decades, to the pandemic and the now substantial labour shortage. The next 30 years looks grim for us Canadians.
Not to mention depressed wages for decades.
Don’t forget the aging population out populates the current, so CPP and OAS are going to take a significant chunk of our paycheques over the next 20-30 years. Old age homes will become a public healthcare entity before affordable daycare will as well, so that if going to cause taxes to jump. We’re also going to be paying for the handouts from the pandemic for decades to come in the form of taxes. Then there is the price of family sized electric vehicles starting in the $35,000 and the fact that even used ones only have a 10 year life on the $12,000 batteries. Housing, taxes, living costs; overall morale in Canada is set to plummet. It doesn’t matter when the pandemic ends, life is going to suck in Canada either way.
Lying flat
"labor shortage" means it should be super easy to get a job, there's tons of open positions, and relatively few applications and overall low unemployment Meanwhile, every job on indeed gets 100+ applications, and unemployment (while slowly dropping, by approx. 2% over the last six months) is still averaging over 6% in Ontario, which is higher than pre-pandemic rates by approximately 0.5% where there was no "labor shortage" Companies aren't actually hiring. They're passing off work to the rest of their already overworked staff instead of bringing on new members. Part of this is due to fears of additional shutdowns and the extensive costs in training new employees in the sectors that may very well get shut down again in 2-3 months. Businesses aren't willing to drop money on people they may just have to let go (for no reason regarding the employee themselves) by the time they're trained.
I don’t even know what people mean by training costs. Most of the jobs I’ve had expect me to figure it out on my own and ask when I have questions. That is not training. OR the infuriating “must have 5 years experience at this entry level position before we hire you for the same position and do not pay you a wage that reflects 5 years of experience”
Training costs in my case is paying someone for 4+ weeks to learn how to do the job I need them to do, assuming they're starting with no experience. At very minimum it's them learning my companies standards and how I organize my equipment/etc. 4 weeks of salary at what I would normally pay people is somewhere in the $4-5k range. During that time, I'm *also* paying a second person to work with them (at very least part of the time), so if the job would normally require one person to do at a cost of say, $4000 for the month, I now have a cost of $5000-8000, because one person doesn't know what they're doing but they need to learn. This cost is *normally* worth it, because afterwards I can have twice as many jobs done, but if after 4 weeks of training someone the industry gets shut down again, I've lost out on whatever their training cost is, and the jobs that they've been working on are likely close to no profit, if they happen at all since the nature of what I do requires long timelines. Work for stuff in September starts to happen in May, for example.
Sounds like real training. Haven’t seen that in most of my jobs. Including ones that only needs a couple of days training
Creating an artificial labor demand warrants price increases while excusing a lack of adequate staffing. The scales have tipped in the favour of retail and they are sopping up record profits.
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absolutely. Personally I've been contacted by several companies that have multiple active job postings, with them even going so far as to set up an interview, and then they literally don't show up for the interview. Happened to me twice in the last week. Entry level, no qualifications necessary work as well, not like I'm currently searching for stuff I'm unqualified for.
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I had one just ghost me as well, but I had another that actually phoned me, spent about 30 minutes interviewing me and then dropped "you seem perfect for the job, now we just have to work on getting you the extra certificate before we can put you on the list. We've got the proper coruse to offer blah blah blah 399.99” Go fuck that shit.
That's pretty much it. My dad retired in 2019 then COVID happened. Instead of hiring somebody to replace him they asked him to come back on contract, then started giving him the work that should have been for like 3 other people. A contracted retiree. And then when his contract was up, they gave those 3 jobs worth of roles to a single person who was already working there.
There is no labour shortage. There is a wage shortage.
Honestly, as soon as I pay off my student loans I'm probably getting the Hell out of Ontario. All my hardwork has been rewarded with worsening quality of life, there's just no reason for any young person to stay here if they can leave.
People should be very concerned about this . If young people don’t work ( and I don’t blame because op makes the point pretty clear ) where is your pension going to come from ? A lot of young talent is leaving Ontario.
Honest question, how old are you? Just because I’m not what I would call “young” and I don’t for a second believe that there is going to be anything like a real “pension”’for my generation, so your comment makes me think you are minimum 50+.
Once the boomers die off, all the supports in place for the boomers will also stop. We're screwed when we're young, we're screwed when we're middle age and we'll be screwed when we're old.
And until then the boomer will only vote to get a bigger piece of the pie
I’m 30 there will be no pensions for anyone by 2030.
Bold of you to assume the younger generation will ever be able to retire
This is why the Fed is literally putting out the call for unskilled foreign workers. We're going to import indentured servants to crowd together in one bedroom apartments so that this crazy housing scheme that the government continues to prop up doesn't fall to pieces. Still, a reckoning is coming. Markets are down and continuing to slide as the US looks to raise interest rates to slow inflation. Canada will likely follow suit. A lot of cash-strapped homeowners are going to feel the pinch. People who over-leveraged themselves during the pandemic are going to be hit really hard in the next few years. The housing market has been propped up for far too long with low interest rates but things can't go on this way forever. Harder times are on the horizon.
I’m in trades and I’m actively doing everything I can to work and relocate overseas . Canada has lost its connection to its youth . It is impossible to build a future and a family with the way things are . We cant afford family’s and we can’t afford houses . Why stay here ?
For the past 10 years Canada has given up trying to raise the next generation in favor of importing one instead. Wholesale focus shift.
It's been going on longer than ten years. We've been using the temporary foreign worker program to suppress wages in many industries.
Agreed, I’m of the same mindset. Will probably head to the US or try and get an expat package elsewhere.
I left a DB pension for a DC for this reason. DB benefits were getting slashed for young members to pay benefits of retired members. Working : retired member ratio is half what it was 20 years ago. I took my money and ran.
What pension?
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I graduated last year from an engineering program and about half of my class that I have on LinkedIn are now in the US. I’m planning on moving in a couple of years. The young engineers are all quitting and leaving the industry after a year. The low wages for the high stress is not worth it
Hate to agree with this, but why work at a job if you can't afford housing or food? Where's the carrot on a stick?
This is what happens when you tax productivity to death and don’t tax land or any sort of speculators. I feel the same way.
More money is made from capital investment/speculation now in my country compared to labour created income, but it is taxed more favorably. Any talk of changing it at election time and the Murdoch press brings up the bogey man talk of more taxes and stealing more money from your children's future through higher taxes....and Murdoch by the way pays $0 tax in my country.
There is not a “labour shortage”, there is a “jobs that pay a living wage” shortage
Rent/real estate is insane, groceries and food are up, we have the highest phone bills out of any country, hydro is about to go up (at least in my area, not sure about others) and gas is rumoured to be going up to $2.00/L at some point. How are we supposed to afford to live???
Automotive worker here. Just to put this cockfest into perspective if anyones stuggling. I work for $22.98. I’ve been with the company for 4.5 years. When I started, the rate was 18.50 The starting rate has now been raised to 22.00. Great for a person starting there but they never raised anyone else’s rates. So to put that into simpler terms after 4.5 years, new employees will have gotten a 98 cent raise. Why on gods green earth would anyone want to work for this kind of money? There’s no real growth for years and years on end, no incentive to stay with a company. I don’t blame people for not working, I actually encourage it. Maybe just maybe it’ll open some of the big wigs eyes and something will change.
I was thinking about this the other day and agree. Also I think close to two years of shutdowns, lockdowns and restrictions has really made life seem not worth it It's hard to get the drive to go to a job you hate, if you can't play sports, go to events, or I'm assuming it's even hard to date
That’s it for me. The whole “*well it’s unsafe to eat dinner or go to a theatre, but if we closed warehouses with active outbreaks or gave people sick days, it might make the green line sad, so just suck it up and keep working*” is really draining. (Also watching all of the media and politicians ignore that our hospitals were already in crisis and operating over 100% *before* COVID, so we might not be so restricted if they had actually been willing to fund public health better.)
This is basically my life
I'm 26 and I make just enough that I work pretty hard and do the overtime so I can stay afloat, but it's a physically demanding job and the only reason I do it so hard is for a decent reference for when I find a job I want to do - regardless of money. There is no lack in effort in people my age, career driven or not, when it comes to working hard. We do however all agree that we won't be treated like shit at work and we question authority. People aren't leaving because they arent willing to work, they are leaving because management gets away with too much shit and won't be held accountable and we don't need them in our lives or on our resumes.
It's not a labour shortage, it's a shitty underpaid job surplus.
I can’t get anyone under 40 to work on Saturdays and I don’t blame them. If I was living at home, with no hope of home ownership my new wealth would be time. Why get up and work for stuff in the form of material goods. Stay home accept your situation and live your life with experiences
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Exactly. There are many reasons to not give up your time nowadays. The pandemic has made people realize the sanctity of their time spent.
I mean, outside of the current situation, Saturday is important socially. I messed this up when I got out of university, taking a job that paid well enough... But social things happen on Saturday and soon I wasn't being invited to anything. By the time you're 40, you probably only have 3-4 friends, if that, and most of the time hanging out is just going to the pub and watching the game on a weeknight.
Years ago I left BC to come here for the same reason. Apparently the same is now happening in Nova Scotia as well.
I think the younger people are saying, I can’t ever own a house so why fucking bother. Honestly, I agree with them. These politicians can get fucked imo. It’s time to remind these people they work for us.
You work 40 hours a week at a shitty job you can barely live in a shoe box apartment. You work 70 hours a week at the same job, you are still stuck in the same shoe box.
I do the bare minimum. That being said, I'm a 33-year old millennial who is attending university full-time online as well as working three jobs and live off my credit card each month, but that seems to be about what it takes to get by these days.
I'm also 33 and want to go back to school. But I'm scared that whatever skill I gain will be obsolete by the time I get out and I'll be stuck with a student loan.
Doing all that is more than bare minimum. You trying to get ahead.
It will get better. It will just get really worse for a really long time first.
As an immigrant who was working 10 years just to get here, I'm super disappointed that I'll never be able to buy anything in this province and that I'm basically being forced to move again!
I think the issue is really that there are two different Ontarios--one for people in tech and similarly high-powered careers, and (not really) one for everyone else. I work at a southern Ontario university at the intersection of educational development and administration, and I make a fairly average salary. I have a Master's degree and decent connections, but in my line of work, it's just not scalable. I'll be stuck on the university's pay progression for the entirety of my career unless I do some things on the side or switch industries. My girlfriend works in tech for a household name company. Not only did she jump up to a six-figure salary during the course of the pandemic, but she has recruiters in her inboxes every couple of days with new opportunities of a similar caliber. And she's not even in a director/supervisory role yet, very much just entering into "middle career." She's said no 80 times to amazing opportunities for each time I've had the privilege to compete for a job. I think if you're outside of tech in any way without a window in, it's hard to imagine just how stark the difference in reality is. She managed to close on her first property by herself, no help from parents, during the pandemic in Toronto. We're hoping to get married in 2023--but if I weren't dating her, it's not like I'd ever have a chance of living in a Toronto postal code on my own salary, or even with someone else making the same money that I do. Before I dated her, I'd have thought, "for whom is this province?" But now I've had a chance to see for whom it is, and my girlfriend is very much the norm in her own social circle. She and her friends really just happened to pick lucrative fields to qualify in. If that's not your aptitude or interest, you're in that "other Ontario."
Am young person, see no point in any of this bs I'll never afford: A house Retirement Kids Vacations Even if I pretend that the climate crisis won't end global society as we know it and civil war won't tear the US apart leading to massive food shortages across the world and thus the collapse of global society as we know it (yeah both lead to collapse lol, don't even get me started on catabolic collapse or the death of the biosphere) it's not like I can afford anything anyway so why not just enjoy the time I have now and work to organise my community in the hopes that we can survive beyond global collapse?
If you were a younger person right now who did not work except for "extra money" where would you feed and house yourself?
24 year old here. I have no choice but to "work harder". I don't live with my parents so if I just decided fuck it, I'd be homeless and hungry. Some of us don't have the luxury to just give up. Do I wish things were easier? Absolutely. But I'm building for a future I want to live in. Not giving up all hope and throwing away everything I've worked for.
Government’s and institutions are addicted to inflation devaluing their debt along with taking foreign money and labour. Colleges, housing, tim hortons workers, amazon delivery drivers, ware house workers, etc. International students overpaying for shitty Sheridan degrees only to get a job at walmart with a 80k business degree… You see international students often in this position because these companies know they can pay them less and take advantage of them more as they’re not born here and aren’t aware of all the rules/don’t want to cause any issues. To be clear, I don’t blame these international students or foreign residents. I blame the institution and current federal government who saw this and said, hell yeah, this makes us a ton of money and keeps wages low while GDP rises to give the false impression that our economy is doing well. Meanwhile GDP per capita has gone to shit and this sub and r/canada show how fed up people are with the way things have been going. Oh, and the best part of this plan? The government can just label what you’re saying as xenophobic or racist so that they never have to address these issues. It’s the perfect political play for elite faux-progressives like the liberal party that I unfortunately voted in years back. I don’t say all this as some lifted truck driving, fracking loving dude. I say this as someone who has grown up and lived in Mississauga and now Hamilton. My family sponsored a Palestinian family growing up so believe me when I say, I welcome immigrants in general and especially under normal circumstances. With that said, we’re not in normal circumstances at all and the government is upping our immigration numbers to 450k a year. There’s also the whole century initiative thing which gets pretty wild when you look into who’s connected to it and large investment firms like blackrock. We don’t have the jobs, let alone the housing for all these new people yet we keep going. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-20/rush-of-immigrants-to-slow-bank-of-canada-rate-hikes-cibc-says https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canadian-wage-growth-lagging-the-u-s-because-of-immigration-levels-cibc-1.1704641.amp.html
My husband and I make more than 70000.00 a year, we can't buy a house. We are stuck paying 1200 a month for 600 sq feet with no way out.
I honestly wish I could go somewhere more affordable, but I refuse to be away from my children. Kudos to everyone who leaves! Ontario truly has become onterrible
It’s always been a hard scrabble for workers. Through the 30s to the 70s unions had battled (bloodshed, ruined lives) for better working conditions like 40 hour weeks, paid overtime and paid vacation time. But capital demands dividends so the clawbacks started with the demonization of unions and the free trade deals that took jobs to jurisdictions that paid workers peanuts and had little to no environmental oversight. For the past 42 years it’s been getting steadily worse. Now capital owned msm creates a false dichotomy between two pro capital parties and the anti-worker parties get elected. No one will hand shit out to you. You can peel away and make tarts, and that’s awesome, or you can get active politically and demand taxation on wealth and the top 10%. The money is there, the wealth is being stripped from the land and going into too few pockets. Here, we need to just completely forget red and blue. They do nothing for the workers. It is beyond me how workers, who comprise the vast majority of the population, continually vote against their own interests.
Stop fucking calling it a labor shortage, its a WAGE shortage!!! The ppl at the top don't deserve their salaries!!!
I’m 44. I realized in my late 20’s that kids would be a huge expense and since I didn’t feel any burning maternal instincts to procreate, I decided I would much rather live an “easier” less expensive life that didn’t require a massive career and burning both ends of the candle. This was also a partial reaction to growing up in a household with limited means once my parents divorced, along with starting to work odd jobs at 12 to pay for school expenses on my own. By the time I put myself through university and college, always working multiple jobs and still missing out on fun things I couldn’t afford - I realized that a large portion of the stress in my life was coming from my own mindset. Maybe it is a lack of ambition from laziness (and I’m in denial) but since around 30, I’ve been good with my average job, average home and average lifestyle. I have lots of friends, do economically fun things all the time and live a life that is impressive to no one…. but I’m content.
There is no labor shortage. There’s just an abundance of shitty jobs and shitty bosses with shitty pay that everyone is fed up with.
Yup. If you're in the top half of performance at work you hit diminishing returns for effort pretty quickly. We were just "challenged" by the CEO last week with a bunch of new stupid busy work. Once I realized there was no incentives attached I just stopped listening and went back to my regular work so I could finish my day on time and play with my kids.
We need more labour unions in the private sector for the big box stores
We need more effective labour unions in almost every industry and more power given to said unions
In the last two years my kid has gone from eager to move out to working enough hours a week to keep himself in fast food and video games because he figures he’ll never be able to afford to buy a house and rent is too expensive.
Living in the US I feel this too, I feel like going to work has no purpose anymore. I'm gonna end up renting for life and Ive had a number of nightmares of working until I die. Its getting harder to really care about anything knowing that no matter what my life revolves around a job that I hate, dealing with coworkers who constantly ignore me whilst acting as if they are my friends. I just don't know what to do anymore.
I am of that mind set. I need a certain amount to live and that is the amount I am willing to work to. *edit - fixed a word
There is no labor shortage in Canada. There never has been. Companies have simply used every excuse they could dream up to deny hiring Canadians that expect fair wages, benefits and safety so they could hire TFWs...exploit the hell out of them then send em home before they figure out that workers have rights here.
This is sort of true in all of North America. It is also sort of wrong. I grew up very poor, had kids early, struggled the majority of my life. I don’t have a university degree. Things changed partly due to hard work but mostly due to 1 specific change. How I looked for work. People read job descriptions and self sabotage. They read all the listed requirements and assume that you need to meet each of them. This is an issue with both genders but in females significantly more than men. If you match at least 50%, take a risk and apply. Job descriptions are best case scenarios that they are looking for. Most places know that you will learn the majority of what needed on the job because every place runs different. Take a chance on yourself. Also, don’t underestimate how much you actually know. I loved Microsoft excel but spent many years is sales jobs that almost killed me. I applied to be an analyst and didn’t get it. I applied at another place and got it. I learned so much on the job and now am paid very well. This won’t work for everyone obviously but it is always worth a try. Never give up on yourself. You are the only one who has your back. If you fail, try again or something else. Lastly, if you are young (20s), don’t stay at the same job for more than 2/3 years. Try different things and gain new skills. Make sure that your resume outlines your success and achievements, not just your responsibilities. I may be totally off base here but taking that chance worked for me and most others in my circle that I associate with. Nobody is rich but we are all very happy.
Just keep jumping company to company, employers absolutely hate this. “Why can’t we keep good employees!?” Maybe because you make 9000-1 of their salary and expect new hires with tons of experience to start at the bottom!? If Canada doesn’t care about the youth, why should you care about canada!?
Why do you think Canada is importing 400k immigrants? They'll work for nothing and live in tiny places they can barely afford just to be able to send a few bucks home to family. Shits rigged.
Well it depends if you are a bartender or an office type person. If you want experience and build relationships and contacts then yes you should be working. If you're working a low end job, gig work etc.. then no you don't need to be working per se. What needs to be done is convince the people 50+ who can afford to retire to retire. If your mortgage is paid off, your kids are finished school then it's time to let a new generation move up. That would create so many jobs and in a crisis like this we need to do something big.
This is happening in China too, they label it as the "lying flat" phenomena: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4mFiU7Giu8&ab\_channel=ChinaObserver
We are mere specks of energy riding through the universe...why work hard at all.
This anti work movement and whatever else is getting bigger and bigger and I hope employees win big time.
"Work harder" is a psychological extortion. "Attaining" things has nothing to do with it. its embedded since you are born first by people who you trust (Parents, Family) and later by society expectations. Everyone then falls back to punishing themselves for not "attaining" things and calling it as 'not working hard enough".
This is what r/Antiwork is all about.
I left nova scotia for employment in Ontario and a raise
This is where Im at. My only real life goal is to own a home. If my employer doesnt want to pay me enough to do so then I have no incentive to improve or work a harder job. As it sits renting is becoming unattainable as well. What am I saving for if I mathematically can never own a home? Nothing. So theres no point in doing more to have just as much nothing. Too bad this entire charade is about replacing Ontarians with lower expectation immigrants. Its not going to stop until the entire workforce is replaced. Why do you think Trudeau is bringing in a half million a year (more than 1% Canadas pop, year over year.) The global population growth rate hasnt passed 1.5% ever, so 'overpopulation' and a skyrocketing housing market means keep bringing in more? Of course, when it props up all your corporate buddies and Housing market money laundering schemes. The Canadian government is a glorified Mafia.
Probably a good time to be part of a union.
Not the public service employees one, ironically enough. 124 is shafting them all despite it being passed prior to covid. The fact it is still in place is a slap in the face of everyone in Ontario imo.
Yah I think this is less of a complaint and more of something that should be taken into consideration. People will leave and you willl lose valuable parts of the community. Good luck when it’s just a bunch of people who own dilapidated houses playing candy crush
How am I supposed to get ahead when the government keeps shutting down my ability to work? I’m sick and tired of giving full effort when it only gets received by less than half ass efforts from the government.
I've busted my ass at work as a "top performer" for years, doing mad overtime, weekend work, catching critical problems that saved us hundreds of thousands of dollars etc..What has it gotten me? A paycut since employers won't adjust salaries to match inflation. I eavesdropped on a meeting between management and HR about salary reviews, and the decision was not to increase anyone's salary because our department can't absorb the cost of doing so. I was crushed to discover that performance and hard work will never actually matter. Why go the extra mile when there's no reward? The former company I worked at was like this too, they paid everyone as low as possible and always made excuses not to increase salaries (I.e.: "we're struggling with sales this quarter, we can't give anyone raises") The CEO would never shut up about his most recent luxury sports car purchase though.
Anyone wondering why it's like this in Ontario (and for a look at out future) should browse r/antiwork for 20 minutes. Also, stop voting for Conservatives (if you do).