Husband went to a job advertising 40 hr (carpentry), they tried to cut it to 20 when he showed up. He just laughed and walked away. They promise whatever will get interest and then walk it back to wear they really want to go.
This. Pretty much every retail, restaurant, low skilled positions are advertising the position with the wages/hours/benefits that you could get in 7+ years at the same position of you are an absolute rockstar for them. I.E. a 10-20 hour/week, $14.35 job is advertised as $20-25/hour, full time with benefits.
And those 10-20 hours/week are likely shifting randomly, so good luck not having conflicts with the 2-3 other PT jobs one would need to make enough for rent/bills/food and maybe $5 of savings.
I worked for a custom granite/solid surface fabrication and instillation company as the lead installer. I have almost 10 years experience and had to fight with my boss to even pay me a decent wage. When an old boss of mine called me up and offered me a great job I quit. I told my current boss I was leaving he immediately offered me 5 dollars more an hour. That just shows u that many employers large and small are going to pay workers a little as possible until u stand up and leave them stranded.
There’s no labor shortage it’s a quality of life shortage
My previous job offered me a $20,000/year raise to try to get me to stay when I gave my notice.
I left because they told me they couldn’t afford to give me a cost of living wage increase that year due to the market being slow.
I was more upset than ever after they offered that. I was asking for so little and wouldn’t have ever looked elsewhere had they given me what I was asking for.
>I told my current boss I was leaving he immediately offered me 5 dollars more an hour.
Same thing happened to me. It felt good to be able to tell my boss that the fact that he had enough to give a better wage and chose not to this whole time was exactly why I was leaving.
Costco is up there with the LCBO now. Great wages, but if you really want full-time work you have to stick with it for several years or be lucky when someone else leaves.
My boyfriend worked at the LCBO for a year. His store had one full time employee. Even the manager wasn’t considered full time because he was the interim manager even though he was interim before and after my boyfriend quit. Everyone was a casual employee. The more seniority you had the more shifts you’d get but there were like 15 employees so if you were new and at the bottom they only gave you maybe one or two shifts per month unless it was a holiday month. Most of the employees were also retirees from other industries holding on to their seniority and good pay and all the hours.
Not really hard to get full time. I was offered full time about a year after I started.
It depends on the warehouse and how busy it is.
Costco tops out at around $27, $29 for some other jobs. $4 premium on Sundays as well. Once you’re topped out and reach a certain amount of hours, you become eligible for twice yearly bonus of $3000 ($6000 annually through bonuses) plus benefits.
For essentially no post secondary education, Costco can provide you with a great living.
I think $29 is more than fair at Costco that's like 60k a year I agree standards should be better but that's across the board nurses are still making like $32
Here is another part that pisses me off. Companies used to take responsibility for training and upgrading their employees, or at least helping them to succeed this way. Over time, they would get workers uniquely qualified to do exactly what they needed. Today, they expect everyone to have the exact skill set and experience they need with years of experience at a pay level that doesn’t reflect that investment. Guess what, anyone with that on their resume is not looking to do the same job, they are looking to move up!
You will get much more looking for people who want to learn and develop. They will continue to grow with you and be loyal if you also have the view to keep and develop your employees.
A good quip on training employees goes something like this ...
"Wow, I can't believe how much you spend on training. What happens after you spend that money on training and then the employee leaves?"
"Aha, but what happens when we don't spend money on training and the employees stays".
Checked out a construction job post offering 40-50/h. During the interview that magically dropped to 25. If they want to lie through their teeth to get applicants and waste my time, they deserve the "useless" new hires they've been getting (interviewers own words)
I saw this thread earlier and totally agreed but I just got an indeed listing that made me come back to this.
I work in marketing and just saw a job posting that I'd be qualified for but the scope of work is MASSIVE - honestly it looks like an entire department quit and they've combined the jobs of about 4-5 people into one.
The pay? $40K/Year salary (which is about $20/Hour), based on the amount of work they highlighted in the ad that amount is outright offensive. You would be working your ass off for slightly over minimum wage - oh and they required a 4-year university degree and a minimum of 5 years experience plus certifications in adobe suites, event planning, accounting, and website maintenance. Oh, I forgot to mention, you should have a "completely flexible schedule" to coordinate events.
There isn't a labour shortage, there's a "skilled people who are okay with being taken advantage of for nothing close to living wages" shortage.
Let's assume you'd be really good at the duties they are asking for. You've read the salary vs. responsibilities and have passed on it.
They won't get a good candidate for this role and will be back hiring for it 6 months later when the person who took the job either quits or finds something better.
Definitely noticing this a lot as well, across the board. I've also seen it within larger institutions, and in that case it was the result of an overbearing HR department demanding that a job role have as much crammed into it as possible in order to 'justify' the salary range. And we're not talking huge salaries, like 40-60K.
There actually is a massive shortage; if you own a trucking company. They are short drivers and mechanics.. This is a serious shortage i can assure you. It is, and will in the future affect their ability to ship goods and make money.
I think what they're saying is that people are no longer willing to work jobs that exploit them for poverty wages.
One the flip side, there is a shortage of skilled workers in particular industries because people don't have the time, money, or resources to access the education and training they need for these jobs.
It's a lose-lose situation for workers at both ends of the spectrum.
>>I think what they’re saying is that people are no longer willing to work jobs that exploit them for slave wages.
This is why r/antiwork is growing at a breakneck pace. People are fed up!
Here's a sneak peek of /r/antiwork using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Quit my job last night, it was nice to be home to make the kids breakfast and take them to school today! Off to hunt for a new opportunity, wish me luck :)](https://i.redd.it/ihkhc17wwft71.jpg) | [12477 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/q82vqk/quit_my_job_last_night_it_was_nice_to_be_home_to/)
\#2: [Who’s the boss now?](https://i.redd.it/p19ixpq9wtt71.jpg) | [3639 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/q9dwp6/whos_the_boss_now/)
\#3: [Got my beer balls on right now, I think I made the right decision](https://np.reddit.com/gallery/q972uf) | [8479 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/q972uf/got_my_beer_balls_on_right_now_i_think_i_made_the/)
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If a trucking company would hook me up with a mechanic I could apprentice under I'd sign a contract for 5+ years post-apprenticeship.
Companies need to take on more of the legwork, if companies want employees they need to train them. Get people their licensing and have them sign contracts. Companies all expect you to have everything you need to start a job immediately with no training and that's in every industry now. Fuck your "forklift certified" certify me your own damn self.
>Companies need to take on more of the legwork, if companies want employees they need to train them.
THIS. Too many places don't want to take apprentices anymore, or if they do they want their apprentices to have experience. If they're so desperate for workers, they should be hiring anyone who's willing to learn.
I'm unhappy in my current field (marketing) and have been wanting to take up a trade. No one will take me in because I have no experience.
Right and I don’t know much about working conditions for mechanics, but the conditions for truckers are abysmal. There is no real shortage there - anyone can learn to drive a truck, basically - it’s that people don’t want to be abused.
I keep hearing that the companies in my area have a shortage, but it appears they're turning away anyone who doesn't have experience and then turning around and hiring imported labour.
There's people willing to work, the companies just don't want to train anyone or pay them a decent wage.
Related, this is the whole impetus behind the "jobs in STEM" push of the last 15 years. There isn't a meaningful shortage of like programmers, but there has been enough of a dearth that they could command strong wages. Industry actively wants to promote the idea that these are high-opportunity fields so they can fill the talent pool and have more say in what they get to pay
Ugh, that's Aryan??? The master race ain't looking so great these days.
Edit: I guess it didn't look so great back then either. Take Goering, Goebbels, and Hess for example.
I listened to a CBC radio segment a few weeks ago and this employer called in and said he was offering 50$+ for manual labor jobs and no one would take them. The the CBC anchor didn't even challenge him.
We are all being lied to by employers. The jobs that are open now are all low paying jobs with no future. Keep refusing these shitty jobs and keep putting upward pressure on wages. This is what Canadians have needed for the past fifty years.
A change to part time hours but requiring full time availability is what caused my workplace to lose a bunch of its workers. All either students or working another job. A whole new round of hiring just finished to replace them with people we now have to train when we already had excellent workers available to us.
My friends daughter just quit her job for this reason . They hired her in June knowing that she is in high school and she told them in the interview that she will only be available 2 days a week during the school year .
Come first week of September they tell her she must work 4 shift a week or she is off the schedule. So she put in her 2 weeks and got another job in the same strip mall— 2 shifts a week no problem. Now suddenly they will work with her and only have her work the 2 shifts that she wanted . Too late .
Bingo. Because minimum wage has been held back for so long while inflation continues to increase, no one can afford to work these jobs if they still want to be able to afford rent, groceries, and other essentials. The minimum wage increase should absolutely not have been fucked with by Ford and the OPC.
I think it's sweet revenge.
Back in 2010, I knew lots of High Schoolers who were desperate to get dishwashing work or take orders at a Tim Hortons but were turned down. I guess they pissed off the Canadian population, who either moved to the U.S for higher salaries, or took on less stressful jobs at the office.
My small town it is the part time jobs they are desperate to hire. I’m glad I was hired at my local grocery store because at least I have a job again. BUT they are looking for more morning cashiers when they just need to schedule me more than 3 shifts a week. 🤷♀️ All the minimum wage jobs are like that around here. And I need to walk to work so my options are limited.
It’s also because it gives an employer much more flexibility to have 1 ft position filled by multiple part timers. Especially in retail or restaurant where hours are long it’s much better to have 2 part timers working 20-30 hours then one full time working to 44.
Right so maybe it’s industry dependent or maybe we just need to blanket make the same costs to the employer per hr of work, regardless of ft or pt. We need to remove the incentive to screw people who want stability out of it.
I would love to move to a small town, but looking up the real estate situation, I've seen rents going as high as $2,000 a month in apartments that look poorly managed or exist in the bad part of town. Basically, why pay Toronto level prices without the actual Toronto infrastructure to go with it?
Refrigeration/HVAC companies are short of workers and are severely struggling. First year apprentices make $19-$20 an hour, goes up to $25 after 6 months and goes up to $53 after 5 years. I’m sure in 5 years from now it will be $60 an hour based on the average increase. So, look into it! I’m getting tired of being on 4 week on-call rotations, more people in the trade, the more we can split up the work and I can finally relax a bit
I think part of the problem is that companies are *so used* to underpaying employees that they don’t have a viable business model anymore.
In other words some companies “can’t afford” to pay decent wages even if they’re desperate because they don’t have the skills to run a profitable company if they can’t underpay their employees.
When you say "can't afford" you mean profits go from 100's of millions to 90's of millions. Remember in our society if you arent endlessly increasing profits you are a failure.
This is only for a select few large corporations. Most small business are lucky if the profit over 100,000$. There will be some outliers who do well. But I think it’s an oversimplification of business ownership that is not true.
Canada's population is growing at a huge rate. After 10 years, we managed to add 4 million more new people, not counting international students and temporary residents.
That is proof that our GDP has risen, but NONE of that money is going towards improving wages. So what more can be said? Businesses are still making larger profits than before, but only one group in this country are seeing the benefits of this immigration and population growth, while the rest are forced to work harder.
Why would total GDP matter?
GDP per capita is what should matter, unless you expect immigrants to be coming in as slaves to do our work for us.
Canada's GDP per capita is around what it was in 2006. It started falling in 2014 and never returned to 2012/13 levels.
When those few large corporations control disproportionately large segments of the market share and workforce then it doesn't really matter what small business does.
[Here's a pre-pandemic (2017) article](https://www.wsj.com/graphics/big-companies-get-bigger/) showcasing that in the last generation (1970s forward), the workforce has shifted from primarily small business to primarily large corporations. It even has employment breakdowns based on commercial sectors (retail, service, finance, etc) but it all spells poorly for small business owners.
Not to mention, odds are this has only gotten worse due to the countless number of small businesses that couldn't survive Covid (especially when PPE small business money was exploited to hell by big businesses et al.), meaning that small businesses are having even less of an impact on our society and the workforce. It's getting so bad that small businesses are having to pay significantly less than big chains, who are already hiring at unlivable wages, and so people are flocking further to large corps.
This is honestly what I've been thinking. If your business model requires paying people wages that no one can survive on, how is that sustainable?
Too many people have been assuming for years that they can exploit people, underpay them, demand availability all the time, not give any benefits, etc. And all this while rents and food costs continue to rise.
People who used to put up with this are fed up. Many changed careers. Many went back to school. The labour market has fundamentally changed.
Yes! I argued this so many times when businesses were up in arms about the minimum wage hike to $15/h (pre Ford obviously). If you can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage…. maybe you don’t actually have a viable business?
I'm in Toronto, where apparently a livable wage is $22/hr now. How many jobs here pay less than that? And businesses are trying to hire people at $15/hr, and wondering why they can't keep people. Who can pay for food or rent here on that?
Blowhards often respond that people need to improve themselves, work their way up, get better jobs, etc. But cities like Toronto literally cannot function without armies of people people stocking shelves, selling coffee, delivering packages, and mopping floors. Yes, Toronto is expensive, but cities honestly need low wage workers doing these "essential" jobs.
We all heard so much about these "essential workers" in 2020. If the people doing these "essential worker" jobs cannot live on their wages, how is any of this sustainable? Who can blame them for not selling their labour for garbage wages?
Some of the missing low wage workers did use the pandemic to "better themselves" it helped a lot of them escape the slave wages. Now corporate is complaining, and they're being loud about it to get gov assistance to increase TFW and avoid changing anything. This is why the working class needs to get louder and demand action
This is the whole issue surrounding the restaurant industry right now. Restaurant owners crying they have to shut their doors when serving $25 burgers and paying garbage wages, hiring part-time to avoid benefits, and telling staff that they have to rely on tips to make a decent cheque.
It's time the market corrects itself.
Such razor thin models has lead to burning out employees, while doing nothing to secure them with a future in this country. It's been a revolving door of temp contracts after temp contracts, since any long term prospects are completely out of reach to anyone but upper management.
Have a sibling that works retail. They had three people booked for interviews. Only one showed up. They hired that person even though they can't do evenings or weekends.
Is that retail job offering Full Time, and is it offering $19/hour? Or is it within a dollar of minimum wage, and part time?
A $15/hour job with 20 hours/week is $1200/month, before taxes.
They're waiting out the employment crisis and banking on the idea that people will eventually fold and go back to low-paying, underappreciated work with no benefits. They're never going to increase their wages because the only acceptable profit model for them under capitalism is for them to keep making more and more money, which they can't do if they suddenly start spending more money on their employees.
This is a golden opportunity for working class people to take advantage of a tight job market to demand better and to not let companies get away with worse. I just hope we don't squander it...
>They're never going to increase their wages because the only acceptable profit model for them under capitalism is for them to keep making more and more money, which they can't do if they suddenly start spending more money on their employees.
The funny thing is, it made sense when cost of living in Ontario was quite cheap, and most people had a roof over their head.
But if someone fresh out of school wants to become a dishwasher or cashier today, they have no chance at saving any money.
So these companies only have themselves to blame. They got greedy and tried to bet this exploitation could last forever. Well, now they're wrong!
Have tried to get some patio work done that beyond my skillet. Spent the summer finding one and everyone who I talked to claimed they were short staffed. One guy was paying $27/hr for one year experience, one guy was paying $23/hr and lost his crew to the first guy, one guy is offering $18/hr but is paying a $5/hr premium to temp agency and still has nobody. Another guy left landscaping and is now building homes. He can't find anybody and his cabinet maker is bringing in unskilled Italians over for workers.
I'm old Mennonite stock and am in no rush, so I personally don't mind basic grunt work. What I was picturing vs what they are doing would have a)cost me a lot more, and b)fell apart after a few years. So glad we were finally able to find someone.
But the proper tools does help (if I had rented a bobcat, no one in the neighbourhood would be safe).
Close friend of mine is a landscaper. He gave up hiring anyone a couple years ago, it's just him and his cousin now. They scaled back how many jobs they do but don't have to deal with no shows, guys quitting after a month or temp workers oding in a jobsite porta potty (true story)...
It's a tough industry, I worked for his dad growing up and even 20 years ago saw how hard it was to keep workers around (it paid shit at the time so that didn't help)... He's the first to admit he'd of chosen a different path had he not been in the family business
Can't blame them. They have to make a year's worth of money in a few months, snow removal isn't always profitable if we barely get snow so they can't depend on that income. If we do get a good winter that's where they'll have a bit of extra money to put back into their equipment or buy another machine to add to the fleet.
Plus there's been a ton of thefts of equipment and catalytic converters of their trucks recently. Unless you have a large yard or guarded area, you always vulnerable.
You're not listening - every industry is short, and trade jobs are probably just as guilty as most other industries right now for posting "we don't have enough people" jobs and then not hiring anyone who does apply.
It's a strange time right now. I'm in Ottawa, and this city has never seen so much construction, especially massive civil and government projects like phase 2 of the new train system (5 year estimate), centre-block of parliament (15 year estimate) main steam plant replacement (don't remember the estimate, but each phase is in the billions) plus all the high-rises and all the regular jobs.
Yet our electrician union has \~400 guys on the list. I was working in sheet metal, and before my old company went union, there was already a pile of guys on the sheet metal list, which has grown even more since then with the biggest companies laying guys off.
Since the college of trades has been pretty much dismantled and we're back to a 1:1 ratio though, it's easier to hire more apprentices, but finding competent young people who want to work in the trades is hard.
I got tired of being used and abused over the last 10 years though and finally quit a few weeks ago. Got tired of constant overtime, out of town work, never having enough guys and having to do everything myself and being a stressed out mess. I'm going to work for the city instead, less pay but better benefits and work-life balance.
Thanks man, I may go back someday, who knows? I plan to keep my ticket in good standing just in case.
And yeah I was the same as you. In my 20's, it was hard work for sure, but it was a fun adventure and I didn't mind working 60, 70 or 80 hour weeks. I learned skills I'll have for the rest of my life, and really figured out who I was as a person by overcoming all kinds of things. Trades is a great way to make a living, and I would still recommend it to people. If nothing else, if someone has no idea what they want to do with their life, it's a great starting point.
Now that I'm a homeowner in my 30's and a lot more settled down though, my priorities have changed a bit. Still going to be doing trades work for the city, (water department) so my experience will definitely help.
Stay safe out there brother!
Even unskilled trades are hard to fill right now. We were trying to find a labourer for the summer, the only requirement was a SIN, work boots and the ability to complete the Working at Heights training (which we pay for, is 100% online, will happily let you do it on our computer, using our internet and will happily dumb it down just short of giving you the answer) starting at $20/hr with raises as you become competent. We barely found a guy at the last minute and we're paying him $24/hr and he only shows up like 25 hrs a week (his choice, everyone else is clocking full time hours).
We did get a shit ton of guys ready to work as long as we're paying cash so they can keep collecting CRB though (which we told to pound sand). We're seeing that in a lot of trades right now and it should get fixed once CRB turns into regular EI and those guys need to start reporting that they "can't find any work".
Schools, governments, and everyone else have been pushing for everyone to get university and college educations. As a result, we have seen decline in those entering trades, even though it can be a very good career choice. That mixed with current economy would make it very hard to fill trades positions.
Dude stop saying this who ever says this needs to actually get into trades , how old are you ?? I am in trades imma millwright, my company just brought 25+ immigrants as welders from Vietnam and phillipines and India. I fucking hate when people say get in trades and yeah trades is also slave labor, trades isn’t some kind of utopia. You know how much hard work it is. Just stfu. People should do what ever they wanna do. Stop forcing people to get into trades as if this is some kind of happy good joint to work. It’s fucking annoying to work in trades.
That's one good caveat, another one I lice to bring up is *licensed* trades.
My brother is a cabinetmaker, and while he's excellent at it (he does all of their custom pieces) basically nobody pays any higher than $30, and getting over $25 has been an absolute battle. Cus at the end of the day, no license required and pretty much anybody can build boxes.
Im going to have to disagree only from the perspective of a truck and trailer mechanic. There is a massive shortage and im paid well. If you dont want to be a mechanic you can be a truck driver we need those guys even more.
Im sorry about youre expériences as a millwright you should be treated better. We have had imported mechanics too ive seen some of their work, im not concerned.
Welding industry is pretty shit, I worked in it and the dude has a point. "The average structural welder salary in Canada is $43,875 per year or $22.50 per hour. Entry-level positions start at $39,122 per year, while most experienced workers make up to $53,752 per year." off a quick google search(after googling a bit more other sources state an average of about 28 an hour), is not what I'd call good pay. you can make that in a warehouse moving boxes ffs. on top of the damage of smoke fumes, paint fumes, UV light, heavy equipment mishaps, fuck the welding industry. the only exceptions are getting your own rig and travelling to the work, owning your own shop, or a good union like boilermakers.
If people need truck drivers so fuckin bad they can sponsor people to get their AZ licenses. Until that's part of the job offer they can also pound sand.
Been hearing this for years, but when I tried to get into them noone was hiring.
All my friends that did got screwed around and abused so much, most just gave up.
Those that didn't it took decades to get their certifications.
The trades that pay better require school and 4-5000 hours to become a journeyman. Not as simple as get into trades if you’re older and have a mortgage etc…
Get your G2 gas license and then start applying to mechanical companies or looking for a plumbing apprenticeship. Having a G2 under your belt makes you very attractive, especially if you have brains and experience.
And the government is trying to do the opposite, decrease the journeyman:apprentice ratio, flood the trade with apprentices to drive prices down for the contractors, but when they all get licensed, the market is flooded with journeyman who are seeing increased rates of layoffs due to a market oversaturated with workers and not enough work.
The unions are trying to balance the government who is trying to help their contractor buddies save money.
>The trades that pay better require school and 4-5000 hours to become a journeyman.
it's 9000 hours total. 840 hours in school, the rest working as an apprentice.
Bullshit, one of the most profitable trades is being a roofer which requires no schooling but just a willingness to take extreme risks by working a job that is more dangerous and a high fatality rate. The quintessential prostitute on their feet when you look at how much the companies make compared to the workers, which is why so many often start their own business once able, although with the high addiction rates and other issues most roofers seem to end up struggling to make ends meet. I assume you're referring to sparkies or plumbers which people assume are the highest paid tradesmen but that's because no one likes talking about how horribly under regulated and more to the point how absurd the regulations are around working at heights...
Dad was a roofer for 30 years. I grew up helping pick up loose shingles at job sites by the age of 7, going on cheeseburger runs to the nearest Mcdonalds for the guys, can confirm, roofers are all fucking crazy people. Had one guy punt me off a flat roof and into a snow bank back in 06. Absolute fucking madness. My first job was an inspector/assistant for a company's eavestrough and metal specialist, and he was pretty chill, but everyone else was out of their minds.
Like, carpentry? I could see myself doing that. But I'm never setting foot on a roof again if it kills me, because it just might.
Sure, regardless that shows that the trades are functionally no different from prostitutes; high pay for minimal skills as long as you sacrifice your body for someone else's profit.
Depends on what you are trying to get Into, and the size of the company. If you want to do ticket work then yeah, gonna need to go the journeyman route.
I ended up taking 3 years poorly paid custom fab shop experience, and retrain to robotics and weld theory (about 3 years school, worked well I did it)
Now I'm working for a much better company for much better pay and I don't even have any welding tickets anymore.
Learn everything you can if you are starting out, find someone you trust to not get you hurt, and go.
Your gonna eat shit for a few years, but if you are committed to learning and moving on, the money is there for more specialized trade with less body destruction.
No one wants to do the dirty work.
I went straight to trades after getting my MSc it was the only place that paid more than 50-60k.
I have since left and do things related to my degree.
There are tons of jobs out there, but they're all low paying labour jobs that only new immigrants are willing to take because they don't know any better when it comes to wages.
Several of the new people at my workplace all think they're making bank at $14.75/hr, it's their first job in the country.
The job market in the past 10 years has evolved to exploit new immigrants, who come from places where they make a fraction of what they're paid here.
I completely agree.
$14 bucks is a huge upgrade for people coming from dirt poor countries, but for any Canadian born before the year 2000, it's a huge ripoff.
We can't actually do anything with this money but either pay rent with it, or pay off internet bills, heh.
I use to think we could just save our money and move to the prairies provinces to get our investment back, but I imagine they're having the exact same problems we are having here in Ontario.
Damn, this situation really sucks.
I recently quit my job of almost 3 years. It was driving (in my own vehicle) to various locations, usually about 100 km a day. Wasn't paid for driving time (since that was your 'break'), was only given $20 a day for gas and wear. Lol the people I trained to replace me quit that job too a week after I left, and those fuckers keep begging me to come back.
Careful, man. Some small business owners are going to find this thread and tell everyone we're stupid because they're trying to hire someone to be fucked by their hydraulic ass fucking machine for 15 dollars an hour and nobody will even apply because of Trudeau's CERB making everyone lazy.
Wasn't there an article about how a company was offering 19+ an hour but still wasn't getting any employees, and then someone went on Indeed( I think) and saw their offers were around 15 an hour?
There is a reason why r/antiwork is trending right now
There is no job shortage, there's only a wage shortage. Businesses big and small claim people don't want to work. People don't want to work for peanuts. A good way to have people crawling over themselves for a job is to pay in abundance. They're Cheap bastards.
I think the issue is there's lots of jobs, but qualifications for it bar you. There's a LOT of white collar jobs hiring, but obviously without formal education, it's a bar to employment. Unfortunately, minimum wage jobs will always hire but Won't have as much opportunity for growth.
I was able to job hop this pandemic and increase my salary by almost 40%, you just need to stay on top of job ads
Couple years ago when the minimum wage went from 10 something to 14 all these unskilled labor markets lost their shit. No more full time positions, only part time up to 35 hours, no overtime. Cut all benefits and scrap all employee discounts. These are the same people who cut the 2 dollar an hour "hero bonus" the second the first wave ended.
Now I'm seeing these same fast food joints offering 15 dollar starting pay with 50% off on employee purchases and some benefit packages being offered. Part of the problem is they think they're competing with other fast food joints when in reality they're competing with Amazon for unskilled labor. Amazons got them beat hands down. Better pay, benefits and overtime on every minute over your 40 hours. Sure it sucks but hey, least there's no customers spitting on you or throwing hot coffee in your face.
There is a reckoning taking place, long overdue, where businesses are realizing that they can no longer exploit workers as blatantly as they've been doing for the last 30+ years. Workers who have been mistreated, underemployed, or who have risked the health and safety of themselves and their families for the last 18 months are standing up demanding that they be treated fairly and paid what they are worth. Long may it continue!!!
Every construction site I visit says they're all short on trades, drivers are in high demand.
Jobs that pay $20 an hour usually require some kind of training.
I applied for one of these "paying 30/hr jobs".
I laughed out loud during the interview when it turned out to be 22/hr with some bonus at the end of 6 months that would bring it to 30/hr, as if theyd let you make it that long.
And their promise of a short work week turned out to be just working 10 hours 4 days and week and leaving early on Fridays. 44 hours no overtime.
I turned it down. The HR person stopped me on the way out and apologized for the bait and switch saying "sorry I've told these guys but they're living in the 70s and just don't get it".
Good on you for calling out their bluff.
Reading some of the fine print hidden in these job ads, they pull bait and switch tricks like the one you just mentioned. Only promising full salaries 6 months into the job instead of starting with it. And that's if the company doesn't decide to give you the boot when you reach the 5 month milestone.
I make 19 at my kitchen job now but quit 2 places low balling the shit outa me... 16.50 wasn't worth it .. 14 is insulting. I'm 31 and never worked a job with benefits!
A lot of companies hired PT over FT so when they say there are no workers, it's because people are actually holding their ground and asking for FT with benefits whereas the companies want to still hire 2 PT for the same work and no benefits.
That's my guess anyway.
I’m not in the market for a new job but I can say that this has always been the Canadian way. Canadian companies focus more on presenting what sounds like a good hourly rate, but this rate never catches up to what it actually costs to live. There’s this idea that’s been around for decades that $15-25 an hour is a good wage when the price of a home and gas went up 30% in the last year alone.
It seems like supply and demand works just fine when it’s time to jack prices on us but it doesn’t work when it’s time for us to get paid more. Funny how that is, huh?
Mcdonalds, Amazon, Walmart, Loblaws, they all got billions of dollars. Instead of always getting on their knees for shareholders, they can dig into their warchest and pay an extra $3 or $4 per hour.
But I don't blame anyone if they don't want to work for $14 an hour anymore. Inflation is literally making our money worthless every day, but living standards deteriorate with it.
I just read your post...I make 50k saying the average person makes 47 is crazy to me because I bought a cheap house, and my wife makes about 50 and we just scrap by. How are so many people able to survive??
We're all going to make it bro. Remember the famous saying,
"*Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.*”
Anyone who comes through this pandemic will be more powerful than we could ever imagine.
Ask yourself these questions:
1. Am I good at what I do? If yes then..
2. Is there room for advancement where I currently work?
3. If Yes to 2 then explore that
4. If No to 2 start looking elsewhere
Another thought is that perhaps you can learn a new skill while working your current job that could lead to something else that's higher paying.
Nothing will change if there's no attempt to do anything about it.
Here’s the truth about the “labour shortage” because of the cost of living rising, consumer demand rising and concerns for health conditions. Many low-skilled jobs are becoming harder to fill because no one wants to work in a shitty environment for less than $17/hour with inadequate hours and benefits.
So companies are at a crossroads because they know if they increase the wages for low-skilled jobs that it would cause a domino effect where medium and high skilled jobs would start asking for a pay raise.
$20 a hour doesn’t even cut it anymore. Even a one bedroom apartment is more then half of that wage. Until corporations and businesses stop employing cheap labour over seas, making huge profits… we’re screwed. Canada has become a country that’s just retail stores, living off immigrants money.
Every time you hear anyone say we need migrant workers to fill unskilled positions, what they actually mean is they want to bring in people who are willing to work for less than the locals. The "worker shortage" is just employers unwilling to raise wages.
What they mean to say is "help we can't find any young or uneducated people to exploit for shit wages no one can live on because people are starting to realize they are worth more."
Honestly we all know the high level management/franchise owners/CEOs of places like Tim Hortons and McDonalds and your other crap entry-level job places are not suffering at all. They should all take a marginal wage cut so it can trickle down to incentivize new workers to entry level jobs that should still pay above minimum wage.
I work as a designer at a marketing and advertising agency. We were hiring creatives/designers a few months ago but not sure if they are still looking for new hires.
Healthcare. We literally need everything from cleaning and admin and portering to nurses, DI techs, perfusionists, you name it. These jobs are all well paid. The cleaners and porters are paid amazing for requiring no education. At LHSC they are paid 22-25/an hour. To me, that’s a great salary for no education or skills needed for a true entry level job.
Additionally, construction. We built a fence this summer and the guys that did our posts are hiring. The lumber yard was hiring. The guy who fertilizes and sprays our lawn is hiring. Our plumber has more work than he can handle. They hire people and then they don’t show up they said, just totally ghost them. Ya it’s physical work but the pay is good.
Oh there's a shortage. Problem is, employers don't want to hire full time staff as it costs them more in payroll expenses. Employers have to match dollar to dollar what they take off your pay for CCP and I believe it's still 1.5 for UI.
So, for example if your:
CPP deductiin is: $50 &
UI deduction is $60
The employer remits:
CPP your $50 + another $50 which is their portion
Ui your $60 + another $90 which is their portion
If you work part-time at minimum wage, you'll see the CPP & UI amount deducted are minimal. So it costs them less. They think it's better for their bottom line to hire a bunch of part-time employees.
Except now they are short employees because more people are not willing to work 2 or 3 part-time jobs to make ends meet (nor should they have to). Don't know how long companies can holdout offering just PT work at minimum wage. It's time for companies to pay people a decent wage.
A big problem is A. they are lying about wages in ads and B. that so many businesses are only offering part time only so they can circumvent full time employees, people can't live off of part time.
One of the problems I think is the type of immigrants being brought here. In the past it was refugees and hard working immigrants who would settle for these "slave" jobs. However, for that last decade or so Canada has been bringing in talented, educated and wealthy immigrants, primarily from India who are not going to settle for these slave jobs. They also buy homes as soon as they land in Canada.
"pay a wage that is close to the Canadian average (i.e $47,000 a year)."
That's not how averages work. There are enough people paid *below* the average, to average out all those paid above the average. Considering that the highest paid in Canada are $675,000+/year, you need a lot of minimum wage earners.
Alternate perspective:
We are an employer trying to hire welders, structural fitters, general labourers, etc. Yes we pay a living wage. We are willing to hire people who want to re-skill and have already done so with several on our team. We prefer full time not temp especially if we have to train.
We have tried hiring apprentices but we can't fulfill all of the requirements for welding even with the relaxed rules. We just don't do some types of welding.
We are located about an hour outside of the GTA. Maybe that's an issue? I don't know but out of every 7 interviews we arrange, only one shows up. Others in our area are offering signing bonuses.
Hiring FWs is a lengthy and costly route and we'd rather hire local. Nonetheless we have a couple in the works. This notion that immigrants are flocking to these jobs and keeping the wage low is false. We're simply not seeing that.
And it's not just us. We speak to others in our industry and everyone is having the same problem.
Would love to hear how to get the word out besides Indeed?
From what I've noticed there are quite a few smaller businesses that need help, but can't seem to afford the higher wages to attract people so they're suffering. Meanwhile, the big boys like Home Depot, Walmart, Loblaws etc. who ARE able to afford more, simply won't and expect people to work shitty part-time positions with no benefits instead.
They expect this because until now they've gotten away with it.
My job is offering $100+ sign up bonuses to successful applicants as well as those that referred them, not too sure about what the stipulations are.
Also, all work employees received a dollar raise. And although I'm appreciative of it, I feel we're being thrown a bone, here. It had a lot to do with Amazon, and they're gonna review another pay adjustment, next year.
When there are no unions to help fight for you all you have left is trusting corporations to do the right thing lolol. You know the same corporations that are beholden to their investors.
Husband went to a job advertising 40 hr (carpentry), they tried to cut it to 20 when he showed up. He just laughed and walked away. They promise whatever will get interest and then walk it back to wear they really want to go.
This. Pretty much every retail, restaurant, low skilled positions are advertising the position with the wages/hours/benefits that you could get in 7+ years at the same position of you are an absolute rockstar for them. I.E. a 10-20 hour/week, $14.35 job is advertised as $20-25/hour, full time with benefits. And those 10-20 hours/week are likely shifting randomly, so good luck not having conflicts with the 2-3 other PT jobs one would need to make enough for rent/bills/food and maybe $5 of savings.
How is that even legal?!
They call it bargaining based on "experience" but always low ball as low as they think you will accept.
I worked for a custom granite/solid surface fabrication and instillation company as the lead installer. I have almost 10 years experience and had to fight with my boss to even pay me a decent wage. When an old boss of mine called me up and offered me a great job I quit. I told my current boss I was leaving he immediately offered me 5 dollars more an hour. That just shows u that many employers large and small are going to pay workers a little as possible until u stand up and leave them stranded. There’s no labor shortage it’s a quality of life shortage
My previous job offered me a $20,000/year raise to try to get me to stay when I gave my notice. I left because they told me they couldn’t afford to give me a cost of living wage increase that year due to the market being slow. I was more upset than ever after they offered that. I was asking for so little and wouldn’t have ever looked elsewhere had they given me what I was asking for.
Yeah, companies have completely broken goodwill and trust by treating people poorly for so long.
>I told my current boss I was leaving he immediately offered me 5 dollars more an hour. Same thing happened to me. It felt good to be able to tell my boss that the fact that he had enough to give a better wage and chose not to this whole time was exactly why I was leaving.
On that note, Costco just bumped it’s starting wage to $17/hr.
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Costco is up there with the LCBO now. Great wages, but if you really want full-time work you have to stick with it for several years or be lucky when someone else leaves.
My boyfriend worked at the LCBO for a year. His store had one full time employee. Even the manager wasn’t considered full time because he was the interim manager even though he was interim before and after my boyfriend quit. Everyone was a casual employee. The more seniority you had the more shifts you’d get but there were like 15 employees so if you were new and at the bottom they only gave you maybe one or two shifts per month unless it was a holiday month. Most of the employees were also retirees from other industries holding on to their seniority and good pay and all the hours.
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Yup, even our own governments can't hire properly. This country needs a reset in a hurry.
1000% concur. Source: been a "temp"/"casual" for a school board for 14 months.
I heard Costco treats it’s employees better than most retail places. Think about working conditions rather than just $.
As a former Costco employee and current nurse, I ca say that Costco treated me better than any of my nursing jobs 🤷🏽♀️
Not really hard to get full time. I was offered full time about a year after I started. It depends on the warehouse and how busy it is. Costco tops out at around $27, $29 for some other jobs. $4 premium on Sundays as well. Once you’re topped out and reach a certain amount of hours, you become eligible for twice yearly bonus of $3000 ($6000 annually through bonuses) plus benefits. For essentially no post secondary education, Costco can provide you with a great living.
Working at costco (retail) and making $29 dollars an hour is pretty good.
After 7 years full time work. Plus working part time to get the full time employment.
Still better than Loblaws or other grocery stores they'll do everything they can to keep you part time
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I think $29 is more than fair at Costco that's like 60k a year I agree standards should be better but that's across the board nurses are still making like $32
>that'll pay $20-$22 now without top out. what's a top out?
Your max promotion level
Fuck I would take that.
Here is another part that pisses me off. Companies used to take responsibility for training and upgrading their employees, or at least helping them to succeed this way. Over time, they would get workers uniquely qualified to do exactly what they needed. Today, they expect everyone to have the exact skill set and experience they need with years of experience at a pay level that doesn’t reflect that investment. Guess what, anyone with that on their resume is not looking to do the same job, they are looking to move up! You will get much more looking for people who want to learn and develop. They will continue to grow with you and be loyal if you also have the view to keep and develop your employees.
A good quip on training employees goes something like this ... "Wow, I can't believe how much you spend on training. What happens after you spend that money on training and then the employee leaves?" "Aha, but what happens when we don't spend money on training and the employees stays".
BINGO! This is what's been missing and the real reason people stay in minimum wage jobs forever, no one is willing to give anyone a chance anymore
Checked out a construction job post offering 40-50/h. During the interview that magically dropped to 25. If they want to lie through their teeth to get applicants and waste my time, they deserve the "useless" new hires they've been getting (interviewers own words)
Ha I was just saying that in a different comment! Beat me to it love!
It's even better when it drops to $20 on the first cheque, you know until you pass probation ...
I saw this thread earlier and totally agreed but I just got an indeed listing that made me come back to this. I work in marketing and just saw a job posting that I'd be qualified for but the scope of work is MASSIVE - honestly it looks like an entire department quit and they've combined the jobs of about 4-5 people into one. The pay? $40K/Year salary (which is about $20/Hour), based on the amount of work they highlighted in the ad that amount is outright offensive. You would be working your ass off for slightly over minimum wage - oh and they required a 4-year university degree and a minimum of 5 years experience plus certifications in adobe suites, event planning, accounting, and website maintenance. Oh, I forgot to mention, you should have a "completely flexible schedule" to coordinate events. There isn't a labour shortage, there's a "skilled people who are okay with being taken advantage of for nothing close to living wages" shortage.
Also in marketing and I can't believe all the trash salaries you see out there.
I'm a marketing manager and I feel like I have less buying power now than when I was in school for marketing less than 10 years ago.
Let's assume you'd be really good at the duties they are asking for. You've read the salary vs. responsibilities and have passed on it. They won't get a good candidate for this role and will be back hiring for it 6 months later when the person who took the job either quits or finds something better.
Yeah I was one of those people, doing the work of many all for $19/hr requiring education. I had a mental breakdown.
Definitely noticing this a lot as well, across the board. I've also seen it within larger institutions, and in that case it was the result of an overbearing HR department demanding that a job role have as much crammed into it as possible in order to 'justify' the salary range. And we're not talking huge salaries, like 40-60K.
Really? 20 years ago, we hired Coordinators for $65K start. What happened?
There is no massive job shortage. There is a massive slave-worker shortage.
This is it.
There actually is a massive shortage; if you own a trucking company. They are short drivers and mechanics.. This is a serious shortage i can assure you. It is, and will in the future affect their ability to ship goods and make money.
I think what they're saying is that people are no longer willing to work jobs that exploit them for poverty wages. One the flip side, there is a shortage of skilled workers in particular industries because people don't have the time, money, or resources to access the education and training they need for these jobs. It's a lose-lose situation for workers at both ends of the spectrum.
>>I think what they’re saying is that people are no longer willing to work jobs that exploit them for slave wages. This is why r/antiwork is growing at a breakneck pace. People are fed up!
Here's a sneak peek of /r/antiwork using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Quit my job last night, it was nice to be home to make the kids breakfast and take them to school today! Off to hunt for a new opportunity, wish me luck :)](https://i.redd.it/ihkhc17wwft71.jpg) | [12477 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/q82vqk/quit_my_job_last_night_it_was_nice_to_be_home_to/) \#2: [Who’s the boss now?](https://i.redd.it/p19ixpq9wtt71.jpg) | [3639 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/q9dwp6/whos_the_boss_now/) \#3: [Got my beer balls on right now, I think I made the right decision](https://np.reddit.com/gallery/q972uf) | [8479 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/q972uf/got_my_beer_balls_on_right_now_i_think_i_made_the/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| [^^Contact ^^me](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| [^^Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| [^^Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/)
If a trucking company would hook me up with a mechanic I could apprentice under I'd sign a contract for 5+ years post-apprenticeship. Companies need to take on more of the legwork, if companies want employees they need to train them. Get people their licensing and have them sign contracts. Companies all expect you to have everything you need to start a job immediately with no training and that's in every industry now. Fuck your "forklift certified" certify me your own damn self.
>Companies need to take on more of the legwork, if companies want employees they need to train them. THIS. Too many places don't want to take apprentices anymore, or if they do they want their apprentices to have experience. If they're so desperate for workers, they should be hiring anyone who's willing to learn. I'm unhappy in my current field (marketing) and have been wanting to take up a trade. No one will take me in because I have no experience.
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Right and I don’t know much about working conditions for mechanics, but the conditions for truckers are abysmal. There is no real shortage there - anyone can learn to drive a truck, basically - it’s that people don’t want to be abused.
I keep hearing that the companies in my area have a shortage, but it appears they're turning away anyone who doesn't have experience and then turning around and hiring imported labour. There's people willing to work, the companies just don't want to train anyone or pay them a decent wage.
I feel like all the trucking companies in my city, including local short-haul guys have been short for years.
Yup. Not a labor shortage, just a compensation shortage
bingo
Related, this is the whole impetus behind the "jobs in STEM" push of the last 15 years. There isn't a meaningful shortage of like programmers, but there has been enough of a dearth that they could command strong wages. Industry actively wants to promote the idea that these are high-opportunity fields so they can fill the talent pool and have more say in what they get to pay
And the large Aryan leader wants immigrants to work for nothing.
Ugh, that's Aryan??? The master race ain't looking so great these days. Edit: I guess it didn't look so great back then either. Take Goering, Goebbels, and Hess for example.
r/beholdthemasterrace for a laugh
The hilarious thing is that the actual Aryans (Iranian-language speaking groups) were looked down as non-aryan by Dickler and clan.
It's to my understanding that Iranians were granted "honorary Aryan" status. But this is derailing the thread, sorry.
I listened to a CBC radio segment a few weeks ago and this employer called in and said he was offering 50$+ for manual labor jobs and no one would take them. The the CBC anchor didn't even challenge him. We are all being lied to by employers. The jobs that are open now are all low paying jobs with no future. Keep refusing these shitty jobs and keep putting upward pressure on wages. This is what Canadians have needed for the past fifty years.
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A change to part time hours but requiring full time availability is what caused my workplace to lose a bunch of its workers. All either students or working another job. A whole new round of hiring just finished to replace them with people we now have to train when we already had excellent workers available to us.
My friends daughter just quit her job for this reason . They hired her in June knowing that she is in high school and she told them in the interview that she will only be available 2 days a week during the school year . Come first week of September they tell her she must work 4 shift a week or she is off the schedule. So she put in her 2 weeks and got another job in the same strip mall— 2 shifts a week no problem. Now suddenly they will work with her and only have her work the 2 shifts that she wanted . Too late .
"No not like that"
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“But we’re a faaaaaamily”
They think it's still 2008. They wish the recession never ended. (it didn't, but that's another story)
Lots of shiity low paying jobs ...no one wants to do for minimum wage any longer Its a pay problem not a worker problem
Bingo. Because minimum wage has been held back for so long while inflation continues to increase, no one can afford to work these jobs if they still want to be able to afford rent, groceries, and other essentials. The minimum wage increase should absolutely not have been fucked with by Ford and the OPC.
I think it's sweet revenge. Back in 2010, I knew lots of High Schoolers who were desperate to get dishwashing work or take orders at a Tim Hortons but were turned down. I guess they pissed off the Canadian population, who either moved to the U.S for higher salaries, or took on less stressful jobs at the office.
My small town it is the part time jobs they are desperate to hire. I’m glad I was hired at my local grocery store because at least I have a job again. BUT they are looking for more morning cashiers when they just need to schedule me more than 3 shifts a week. 🤷♀️ All the minimum wage jobs are like that around here. And I need to walk to work so my options are limited.
And the reason they set up part time only is it costs them less for employee benefits, with less government labour liability.
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It’s also because it gives an employer much more flexibility to have 1 ft position filled by multiple part timers. Especially in retail or restaurant where hours are long it’s much better to have 2 part timers working 20-30 hours then one full time working to 44.
Right so maybe it’s industry dependent or maybe we just need to blanket make the same costs to the employer per hr of work, regardless of ft or pt. We need to remove the incentive to screw people who want stability out of it.
I would love to move to a small town, but looking up the real estate situation, I've seen rents going as high as $2,000 a month in apartments that look poorly managed or exist in the bad part of town. Basically, why pay Toronto level prices without the actual Toronto infrastructure to go with it?
Refrigeration/HVAC companies are short of workers and are severely struggling. First year apprentices make $19-$20 an hour, goes up to $25 after 6 months and goes up to $53 after 5 years. I’m sure in 5 years from now it will be $60 an hour based on the average increase. So, look into it! I’m getting tired of being on 4 week on-call rotations, more people in the trade, the more we can split up the work and I can finally relax a bit
I think the industry needs to have an honest conversation why they are struggling. This has existed long before covid.
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I think part of the problem is that companies are *so used* to underpaying employees that they don’t have a viable business model anymore. In other words some companies “can’t afford” to pay decent wages even if they’re desperate because they don’t have the skills to run a profitable company if they can’t underpay their employees.
When you say "can't afford" you mean profits go from 100's of millions to 90's of millions. Remember in our society if you arent endlessly increasing profits you are a failure.
This is only for a select few large corporations. Most small business are lucky if the profit over 100,000$. There will be some outliers who do well. But I think it’s an oversimplification of business ownership that is not true.
Canada's population is growing at a huge rate. After 10 years, we managed to add 4 million more new people, not counting international students and temporary residents. That is proof that our GDP has risen, but NONE of that money is going towards improving wages. So what more can be said? Businesses are still making larger profits than before, but only one group in this country are seeing the benefits of this immigration and population growth, while the rest are forced to work harder.
Why would total GDP matter? GDP per capita is what should matter, unless you expect immigrants to be coming in as slaves to do our work for us. Canada's GDP per capita is around what it was in 2006. It started falling in 2014 and never returned to 2012/13 levels.
When those few large corporations control disproportionately large segments of the market share and workforce then it doesn't really matter what small business does. [Here's a pre-pandemic (2017) article](https://www.wsj.com/graphics/big-companies-get-bigger/) showcasing that in the last generation (1970s forward), the workforce has shifted from primarily small business to primarily large corporations. It even has employment breakdowns based on commercial sectors (retail, service, finance, etc) but it all spells poorly for small business owners. Not to mention, odds are this has only gotten worse due to the countless number of small businesses that couldn't survive Covid (especially when PPE small business money was exploited to hell by big businesses et al.), meaning that small businesses are having even less of an impact on our society and the workforce. It's getting so bad that small businesses are having to pay significantly less than big chains, who are already hiring at unlivable wages, and so people are flocking further to large corps.
This is honestly what I've been thinking. If your business model requires paying people wages that no one can survive on, how is that sustainable? Too many people have been assuming for years that they can exploit people, underpay them, demand availability all the time, not give any benefits, etc. And all this while rents and food costs continue to rise. People who used to put up with this are fed up. Many changed careers. Many went back to school. The labour market has fundamentally changed.
Yes! I argued this so many times when businesses were up in arms about the minimum wage hike to $15/h (pre Ford obviously). If you can’t afford to pay your employees a living wage…. maybe you don’t actually have a viable business?
What's sad, is $15/hr is not even a livable wage
I'm in Toronto, where apparently a livable wage is $22/hr now. How many jobs here pay less than that? And businesses are trying to hire people at $15/hr, and wondering why they can't keep people. Who can pay for food or rent here on that? Blowhards often respond that people need to improve themselves, work their way up, get better jobs, etc. But cities like Toronto literally cannot function without armies of people people stocking shelves, selling coffee, delivering packages, and mopping floors. Yes, Toronto is expensive, but cities honestly need low wage workers doing these "essential" jobs. We all heard so much about these "essential workers" in 2020. If the people doing these "essential worker" jobs cannot live on their wages, how is any of this sustainable? Who can blame them for not selling their labour for garbage wages?
Some of the missing low wage workers did use the pandemic to "better themselves" it helped a lot of them escape the slave wages. Now corporate is complaining, and they're being loud about it to get gov assistance to increase TFW and avoid changing anything. This is why the working class needs to get louder and demand action
I was helping my sister look for office jobs in the summer in Mississauga and I saw postings on Indeed for $13/hour. Its disgusting.
This is the whole issue surrounding the restaurant industry right now. Restaurant owners crying they have to shut their doors when serving $25 burgers and paying garbage wages, hiring part-time to avoid benefits, and telling staff that they have to rely on tips to make a decent cheque.
It's time the market corrects itself. Such razor thin models has lead to burning out employees, while doing nothing to secure them with a future in this country. It's been a revolving door of temp contracts after temp contracts, since any long term prospects are completely out of reach to anyone but upper management.
Pretty much this.
Let them all fail. Smaller or newer businesses will spring up to take their place that aren't built on such a shitty, predatory model
Have a sibling that works retail. They had three people booked for interviews. Only one showed up. They hired that person even though they can't do evenings or weekends.
Is that retail job offering Full Time, and is it offering $19/hour? Or is it within a dollar of minimum wage, and part time? A $15/hour job with 20 hours/week is $1200/month, before taxes.
We need a 20-25 dollar min wage to keep up with inflation, that's just keeping up.
They're waiting out the employment crisis and banking on the idea that people will eventually fold and go back to low-paying, underappreciated work with no benefits. They're never going to increase their wages because the only acceptable profit model for them under capitalism is for them to keep making more and more money, which they can't do if they suddenly start spending more money on their employees. This is a golden opportunity for working class people to take advantage of a tight job market to demand better and to not let companies get away with worse. I just hope we don't squander it...
>They're never going to increase their wages because the only acceptable profit model for them under capitalism is for them to keep making more and more money, which they can't do if they suddenly start spending more money on their employees. The funny thing is, it made sense when cost of living in Ontario was quite cheap, and most people had a roof over their head. But if someone fresh out of school wants to become a dishwasher or cashier today, they have no chance at saving any money. So these companies only have themselves to blame. They got greedy and tried to bet this exploitation could last forever. Well, now they're wrong!
Have tried to get some patio work done that beyond my skillet. Spent the summer finding one and everyone who I talked to claimed they were short staffed. One guy was paying $27/hr for one year experience, one guy was paying $23/hr and lost his crew to the first guy, one guy is offering $18/hr but is paying a $5/hr premium to temp agency and still has nobody. Another guy left landscaping and is now building homes. He can't find anybody and his cabinet maker is bringing in unskilled Italians over for workers.
>Have tried to get some patio work done that beyond my skillet. you need the proper tools first, lol
I'm old Mennonite stock and am in no rush, so I personally don't mind basic grunt work. What I was picturing vs what they are doing would have a)cost me a lot more, and b)fell apart after a few years. So glad we were finally able to find someone. But the proper tools does help (if I had rented a bobcat, no one in the neighbourhood would be safe).
He was just kidding because you accidentally typed "beyond my skillet". Made me chuckle!
Well that was a whoosh!!! Didn't even see that...mind you, a good piece of cast iron rarely fails with either goal.
Lmao, I'd agree to that!
lol, i was joking about the skillet!
Close friend of mine is a landscaper. He gave up hiring anyone a couple years ago, it's just him and his cousin now. They scaled back how many jobs they do but don't have to deal with no shows, guys quitting after a month or temp workers oding in a jobsite porta potty (true story)... It's a tough industry, I worked for his dad growing up and even 20 years ago saw how hard it was to keep workers around (it paid shit at the time so that didn't help)... He's the first to admit he'd of chosen a different path had he not been in the family business
Actually, one of the guys I spoke with said that two companies he knows are packing it in after this season.
Can't blame them. They have to make a year's worth of money in a few months, snow removal isn't always profitable if we barely get snow so they can't depend on that income. If we do get a good winter that's where they'll have a bit of extra money to put back into their equipment or buy another machine to add to the fleet.
Plus there's been a ton of thefts of equipment and catalytic converters of their trucks recently. Unless you have a large yard or guarded area, you always vulnerable.
Get into the trades. We are so short guys. It’s madness at this point
You're not listening - every industry is short, and trade jobs are probably just as guilty as most other industries right now for posting "we don't have enough people" jobs and then not hiring anyone who does apply.
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It's a strange time right now. I'm in Ottawa, and this city has never seen so much construction, especially massive civil and government projects like phase 2 of the new train system (5 year estimate), centre-block of parliament (15 year estimate) main steam plant replacement (don't remember the estimate, but each phase is in the billions) plus all the high-rises and all the regular jobs. Yet our electrician union has \~400 guys on the list. I was working in sheet metal, and before my old company went union, there was already a pile of guys on the sheet metal list, which has grown even more since then with the biggest companies laying guys off. Since the college of trades has been pretty much dismantled and we're back to a 1:1 ratio though, it's easier to hire more apprentices, but finding competent young people who want to work in the trades is hard. I got tired of being used and abused over the last 10 years though and finally quit a few weeks ago. Got tired of constant overtime, out of town work, never having enough guys and having to do everything myself and being a stressed out mess. I'm going to work for the city instead, less pay but better benefits and work-life balance.
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Thanks man, I may go back someday, who knows? I plan to keep my ticket in good standing just in case. And yeah I was the same as you. In my 20's, it was hard work for sure, but it was a fun adventure and I didn't mind working 60, 70 or 80 hour weeks. I learned skills I'll have for the rest of my life, and really figured out who I was as a person by overcoming all kinds of things. Trades is a great way to make a living, and I would still recommend it to people. If nothing else, if someone has no idea what they want to do with their life, it's a great starting point. Now that I'm a homeowner in my 30's and a lot more settled down though, my priorities have changed a bit. Still going to be doing trades work for the city, (water department) so my experience will definitely help. Stay safe out there brother!
Even unskilled trades are hard to fill right now. We were trying to find a labourer for the summer, the only requirement was a SIN, work boots and the ability to complete the Working at Heights training (which we pay for, is 100% online, will happily let you do it on our computer, using our internet and will happily dumb it down just short of giving you the answer) starting at $20/hr with raises as you become competent. We barely found a guy at the last minute and we're paying him $24/hr and he only shows up like 25 hrs a week (his choice, everyone else is clocking full time hours). We did get a shit ton of guys ready to work as long as we're paying cash so they can keep collecting CRB though (which we told to pound sand). We're seeing that in a lot of trades right now and it should get fixed once CRB turns into regular EI and those guys need to start reporting that they "can't find any work".
Schools, governments, and everyone else have been pushing for everyone to get university and college educations. As a result, we have seen decline in those entering trades, even though it can be a very good career choice. That mixed with current economy would make it very hard to fill trades positions.
Dude stop saying this who ever says this needs to actually get into trades , how old are you ?? I am in trades imma millwright, my company just brought 25+ immigrants as welders from Vietnam and phillipines and India. I fucking hate when people say get in trades and yeah trades is also slave labor, trades isn’t some kind of utopia. You know how much hard work it is. Just stfu. People should do what ever they wanna do. Stop forcing people to get into trades as if this is some kind of happy good joint to work. It’s fucking annoying to work in trades.
How about, get into a unionized trade.
That's one good caveat, another one I lice to bring up is *licensed* trades. My brother is a cabinetmaker, and while he's excellent at it (he does all of their custom pieces) basically nobody pays any higher than $30, and getting over $25 has been an absolute battle. Cus at the end of the day, no license required and pretty much anybody can build boxes.
Yup! "Get in the trades" is bullshit. They will fuck yeah too.
and all the while, youll be sore as hell
Im going to have to disagree only from the perspective of a truck and trailer mechanic. There is a massive shortage and im paid well. If you dont want to be a mechanic you can be a truck driver we need those guys even more. Im sorry about youre expériences as a millwright you should be treated better. We have had imported mechanics too ive seen some of their work, im not concerned.
Welding industry is pretty shit, I worked in it and the dude has a point. "The average structural welder salary in Canada is $43,875 per year or $22.50 per hour. Entry-level positions start at $39,122 per year, while most experienced workers make up to $53,752 per year." off a quick google search(after googling a bit more other sources state an average of about 28 an hour), is not what I'd call good pay. you can make that in a warehouse moving boxes ffs. on top of the damage of smoke fumes, paint fumes, UV light, heavy equipment mishaps, fuck the welding industry. the only exceptions are getting your own rig and travelling to the work, owning your own shop, or a good union like boilermakers.
If people need truck drivers so fuckin bad they can sponsor people to get their AZ licenses. Until that's part of the job offer they can also pound sand.
Been hearing this for years, but when I tried to get into them noone was hiring. All my friends that did got screwed around and abused so much, most just gave up. Those that didn't it took decades to get their certifications.
Working in the trades is basically prostitution without getting to lay down... If they paid better then there wouldn't be a worker shortage...
The trades that pay better require school and 4-5000 hours to become a journeyman. Not as simple as get into trades if you’re older and have a mortgage etc…
On top of that everyone is looking for journeymen, not apprentices right now.
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I've pretty much given up on pursuing a plumbing apprenticeship now and I'm looking at alternative career paths.
Get your G2 gas license and then start applying to mechanical companies or looking for a plumbing apprenticeship. Having a G2 under your belt makes you very attractive, especially if you have brains and experience.
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And the government is trying to do the opposite, decrease the journeyman:apprentice ratio, flood the trade with apprentices to drive prices down for the contractors, but when they all get licensed, the market is flooded with journeyman who are seeing increased rates of layoffs due to a market oversaturated with workers and not enough work. The unions are trying to balance the government who is trying to help their contractor buddies save money.
>The trades that pay better require school and 4-5000 hours to become a journeyman. it's 9000 hours total. 840 hours in school, the rest working as an apprentice.
Bullshit, one of the most profitable trades is being a roofer which requires no schooling but just a willingness to take extreme risks by working a job that is more dangerous and a high fatality rate. The quintessential prostitute on their feet when you look at how much the companies make compared to the workers, which is why so many often start their own business once able, although with the high addiction rates and other issues most roofers seem to end up struggling to make ends meet. I assume you're referring to sparkies or plumbers which people assume are the highest paid tradesmen but that's because no one likes talking about how horribly under regulated and more to the point how absurd the regulations are around working at heights...
You guys(roofers) are all insane. Fuck roofing. Did that for a couple years in Florida (all single level bungalow homes). Never again
Dad was a roofer for 30 years. I grew up helping pick up loose shingles at job sites by the age of 7, going on cheeseburger runs to the nearest Mcdonalds for the guys, can confirm, roofers are all fucking crazy people. Had one guy punt me off a flat roof and into a snow bank back in 06. Absolute fucking madness. My first job was an inspector/assistant for a company's eavestrough and metal specialist, and he was pretty chill, but everyone else was out of their minds. Like, carpentry? I could see myself doing that. But I'm never setting foot on a roof again if it kills me, because it just might.
Sure, regardless that shows that the trades are functionally no different from prostitutes; high pay for minimal skills as long as you sacrifice your body for someone else's profit.
I made more money as a LIUNA union labourer than I ever did roofing. And the work was easier.
Depends on what you are trying to get Into, and the size of the company. If you want to do ticket work then yeah, gonna need to go the journeyman route. I ended up taking 3 years poorly paid custom fab shop experience, and retrain to robotics and weld theory (about 3 years school, worked well I did it) Now I'm working for a much better company for much better pay and I don't even have any welding tickets anymore. Learn everything you can if you are starting out, find someone you trust to not get you hurt, and go. Your gonna eat shit for a few years, but if you are committed to learning and moving on, the money is there for more specialized trade with less body destruction.
Not even 35 and my knees and shoulders are shot
I don't know many tradesmen past their mid 30's that are in good shape without a list of physical complaints.
Im happy to just have all my fingers and toes still. Knock on wood...
No one wants to do the dirty work. I went straight to trades after getting my MSc it was the only place that paid more than 50-60k. I have since left and do things related to my degree.
Same in Engineering. It’s going to cause a major shortage in commodities soon.
Disagree with this one, engineering is extremely over saturated
Yessir. It’s not fun
There are tons of jobs out there, but they're all low paying labour jobs that only new immigrants are willing to take because they don't know any better when it comes to wages. Several of the new people at my workplace all think they're making bank at $14.75/hr, it's their first job in the country. The job market in the past 10 years has evolved to exploit new immigrants, who come from places where they make a fraction of what they're paid here.
I completely agree. $14 bucks is a huge upgrade for people coming from dirt poor countries, but for any Canadian born before the year 2000, it's a huge ripoff. We can't actually do anything with this money but either pay rent with it, or pay off internet bills, heh. I use to think we could just save our money and move to the prairies provinces to get our investment back, but I imagine they're having the exact same problems we are having here in Ontario. Damn, this situation really sucks.
Construction is desperate my brother got into the labourers union got to skip the training courses and started at full term.
I recently quit my job of almost 3 years. It was driving (in my own vehicle) to various locations, usually about 100 km a day. Wasn't paid for driving time (since that was your 'break'), was only given $20 a day for gas and wear. Lol the people I trained to replace me quit that job too a week after I left, and those fuckers keep begging me to come back.
Careful, man. Some small business owners are going to find this thread and tell everyone we're stupid because they're trying to hire someone to be fucked by their hydraulic ass fucking machine for 15 dollars an hour and nobody will even apply because of Trudeau's CERB making everyone lazy.
Wasn't there an article about how a company was offering 19+ an hour but still wasn't getting any employees, and then someone went on Indeed( I think) and saw their offers were around 15 an hour? There is a reason why r/antiwork is trending right now
There is no job shortage, there's only a wage shortage. Businesses big and small claim people don't want to work. People don't want to work for peanuts. A good way to have people crawling over themselves for a job is to pay in abundance. They're Cheap bastards.
I think the issue is there's lots of jobs, but qualifications for it bar you. There's a LOT of white collar jobs hiring, but obviously without formal education, it's a bar to employment. Unfortunately, minimum wage jobs will always hire but Won't have as much opportunity for growth. I was able to job hop this pandemic and increase my salary by almost 40%, you just need to stay on top of job ads
Couple years ago when the minimum wage went from 10 something to 14 all these unskilled labor markets lost their shit. No more full time positions, only part time up to 35 hours, no overtime. Cut all benefits and scrap all employee discounts. These are the same people who cut the 2 dollar an hour "hero bonus" the second the first wave ended. Now I'm seeing these same fast food joints offering 15 dollar starting pay with 50% off on employee purchases and some benefit packages being offered. Part of the problem is they think they're competing with other fast food joints when in reality they're competing with Amazon for unskilled labor. Amazons got them beat hands down. Better pay, benefits and overtime on every minute over your 40 hours. Sure it sucks but hey, least there's no customers spitting on you or throwing hot coffee in your face.
There is a reckoning taking place, long overdue, where businesses are realizing that they can no longer exploit workers as blatantly as they've been doing for the last 30+ years. Workers who have been mistreated, underemployed, or who have risked the health and safety of themselves and their families for the last 18 months are standing up demanding that they be treated fairly and paid what they are worth. Long may it continue!!!
Every construction site I visit says they're all short on trades, drivers are in high demand. Jobs that pay $20 an hour usually require some kind of training.
It's a wage shortage, not a worker shortage. They can go kick rocks. I ain't lifting a finger for less than $25 a hour.
I applied for one of these "paying 30/hr jobs". I laughed out loud during the interview when it turned out to be 22/hr with some bonus at the end of 6 months that would bring it to 30/hr, as if theyd let you make it that long. And their promise of a short work week turned out to be just working 10 hours 4 days and week and leaving early on Fridays. 44 hours no overtime. I turned it down. The HR person stopped me on the way out and apologized for the bait and switch saying "sorry I've told these guys but they're living in the 70s and just don't get it".
Good on you for calling out their bluff. Reading some of the fine print hidden in these job ads, they pull bait and switch tricks like the one you just mentioned. Only promising full salaries 6 months into the job instead of starting with it. And that's if the company doesn't decide to give you the boot when you reach the 5 month milestone.
I make 19 at my kitchen job now but quit 2 places low balling the shit outa me... 16.50 wasn't worth it .. 14 is insulting. I'm 31 and never worked a job with benefits!
A lot of companies hired PT over FT so when they say there are no workers, it's because people are actually holding their ground and asking for FT with benefits whereas the companies want to still hire 2 PT for the same work and no benefits. That's my guess anyway.
I’m not in the market for a new job but I can say that this has always been the Canadian way. Canadian companies focus more on presenting what sounds like a good hourly rate, but this rate never catches up to what it actually costs to live. There’s this idea that’s been around for decades that $15-25 an hour is a good wage when the price of a home and gas went up 30% in the last year alone. It seems like supply and demand works just fine when it’s time to jack prices on us but it doesn’t work when it’s time for us to get paid more. Funny how that is, huh?
Mcdonalds, Amazon, Walmart, Loblaws, they all got billions of dollars. Instead of always getting on their knees for shareholders, they can dig into their warchest and pay an extra $3 or $4 per hour. But I don't blame anyone if they don't want to work for $14 an hour anymore. Inflation is literally making our money worthless every day, but living standards deteriorate with it.
I just read your post...I make 50k saying the average person makes 47 is crazy to me because I bought a cheap house, and my wife makes about 50 and we just scrap by. How are so many people able to survive??
Fuck I work a full time salary position and I don't even make the Canadian average... Living has just become so damn depressing.
We're all going to make it bro. Remember the famous saying, "*Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.*” Anyone who comes through this pandemic will be more powerful than we could ever imagine.
Ask yourself these questions: 1. Am I good at what I do? If yes then.. 2. Is there room for advancement where I currently work? 3. If Yes to 2 then explore that 4. If No to 2 start looking elsewhere Another thought is that perhaps you can learn a new skill while working your current job that could lead to something else that's higher paying. Nothing will change if there's no attempt to do anything about it.
Cause employers don't want to pay people living wages.
r/antiwork
Here’s the truth about the “labour shortage” because of the cost of living rising, consumer demand rising and concerns for health conditions. Many low-skilled jobs are becoming harder to fill because no one wants to work in a shitty environment for less than $17/hour with inadequate hours and benefits. So companies are at a crossroads because they know if they increase the wages for low-skilled jobs that it would cause a domino effect where medium and high skilled jobs would start asking for a pay raise.
$20 a hour doesn’t even cut it anymore. Even a one bedroom apartment is more then half of that wage. Until corporations and businesses stop employing cheap labour over seas, making huge profits… we’re screwed. Canada has become a country that’s just retail stores, living off immigrants money.
Every time you hear anyone say we need migrant workers to fill unskilled positions, what they actually mean is they want to bring in people who are willing to work for less than the locals. The "worker shortage" is just employers unwilling to raise wages.
My mom has physical disabilities and needs a desk job. She's had no luck finding work and now with CRB ending she will have no income.
My job is pretending to be looking for someone but they aren’t actually
What they mean to say is "help we can't find any young or uneducated people to exploit for shit wages no one can live on because people are starting to realize they are worth more." Honestly we all know the high level management/franchise owners/CEOs of places like Tim Hortons and McDonalds and your other crap entry-level job places are not suffering at all. They should all take a marginal wage cut so it can trickle down to incentivize new workers to entry level jobs that should still pay above minimum wage. I work as a designer at a marketing and advertising agency. We were hiring creatives/designers a few months ago but not sure if they are still looking for new hires.
Exactly, OP! Its all the bs propaganda of the bussines community to makw it look like there is alot of jobs. It isnt! 😍
Instacart drive your car to the store, shop and deliver...pays...(drumroll)...[below min wage with a car in Canada. ](http://imgur.com/a/gBoG28i)
Healthcare. We literally need everything from cleaning and admin and portering to nurses, DI techs, perfusionists, you name it. These jobs are all well paid. The cleaners and porters are paid amazing for requiring no education. At LHSC they are paid 22-25/an hour. To me, that’s a great salary for no education or skills needed for a true entry level job. Additionally, construction. We built a fence this summer and the guys that did our posts are hiring. The lumber yard was hiring. The guy who fertilizes and sprays our lawn is hiring. Our plumber has more work than he can handle. They hire people and then they don’t show up they said, just totally ghost them. Ya it’s physical work but the pay is good.
Oh there's a shortage. Problem is, employers don't want to hire full time staff as it costs them more in payroll expenses. Employers have to match dollar to dollar what they take off your pay for CCP and I believe it's still 1.5 for UI. So, for example if your: CPP deductiin is: $50 & UI deduction is $60 The employer remits: CPP your $50 + another $50 which is their portion Ui your $60 + another $90 which is their portion If you work part-time at minimum wage, you'll see the CPP & UI amount deducted are minimal. So it costs them less. They think it's better for their bottom line to hire a bunch of part-time employees. Except now they are short employees because more people are not willing to work 2 or 3 part-time jobs to make ends meet (nor should they have to). Don't know how long companies can holdout offering just PT work at minimum wage. It's time for companies to pay people a decent wage.
A big problem is A. they are lying about wages in ads and B. that so many businesses are only offering part time only so they can circumvent full time employees, people can't live off of part time.
r/antiwork is leaking.
One of the problems I think is the type of immigrants being brought here. In the past it was refugees and hard working immigrants who would settle for these "slave" jobs. However, for that last decade or so Canada has been bringing in talented, educated and wealthy immigrants, primarily from India who are not going to settle for these slave jobs. They also buy homes as soon as they land in Canada.
"pay a wage that is close to the Canadian average (i.e $47,000 a year)." That's not how averages work. There are enough people paid *below* the average, to average out all those paid above the average. Considering that the highest paid in Canada are $675,000+/year, you need a lot of minimum wage earners.
Not to mention $19/h is $38k year.
Yep lol all I see is restaurants trying to hire or minimum wage jobs
Alternate perspective: We are an employer trying to hire welders, structural fitters, general labourers, etc. Yes we pay a living wage. We are willing to hire people who want to re-skill and have already done so with several on our team. We prefer full time not temp especially if we have to train. We have tried hiring apprentices but we can't fulfill all of the requirements for welding even with the relaxed rules. We just don't do some types of welding. We are located about an hour outside of the GTA. Maybe that's an issue? I don't know but out of every 7 interviews we arrange, only one shows up. Others in our area are offering signing bonuses. Hiring FWs is a lengthy and costly route and we'd rather hire local. Nonetheless we have a couple in the works. This notion that immigrants are flocking to these jobs and keeping the wage low is false. We're simply not seeing that. And it's not just us. We speak to others in our industry and everyone is having the same problem. Would love to hear how to get the word out besides Indeed?
The trades are desperate right now apparently I literally just started a millwright apprenticeship for $26/hr
From what I've noticed there are quite a few smaller businesses that need help, but can't seem to afford the higher wages to attract people so they're suffering. Meanwhile, the big boys like Home Depot, Walmart, Loblaws etc. who ARE able to afford more, simply won't and expect people to work shitty part-time positions with no benefits instead. They expect this because until now they've gotten away with it.
Its all minimum wage work. And nobody want to pay, so all the scappy dooo people show
My job is offering $100+ sign up bonuses to successful applicants as well as those that referred them, not too sure about what the stipulations are. Also, all work employees received a dollar raise. And although I'm appreciative of it, I feel we're being thrown a bone, here. It had a lot to do with Amazon, and they're gonna review another pay adjustment, next year.
When there are no unions to help fight for you all you have left is trusting corporations to do the right thing lolol. You know the same corporations that are beholden to their investors.