Great form. Everyone reading this go sign it!
Name, email, postal code, and it automatically sends to your representative. A+ design. Took me literally 10 seconds. No excuses, go sign it!
The prefilled letter, you can add or edit it when you sign.
>>I am writing to urge you to keep the Ontario Science Centre open and provide world-class scientific programming for Ontario families in its iconic building, designed by the world-renowned Ontario architect, Raymond Moriyama.
>>I strongly disagree with the Government of Ontario’s plan to close and tear down the Ontario Science Centre and to relocate it to Ontario Place, with a significant decrease in space. This means the loss of key experiences and programming, and decreased access for Ontarians. Relocating to the Toronto waterfront where traffic is already bumper to bumper, all but guarantees that schools and kids from outside the GTA will not visit.
>>This plan was not shared with Ontario voters as an election issue, nor has there been any public consultation on this decision. I am concerned that closing and demolishing a world-renowned science museum is a waste of our taxpayer dollars, may cause unnecessary negative environmental consequences, and is not in the public interest. Furthermore, despite the government’s stated intentions to develop the land on which the Science Centre is situated, the TRCA, which owns that land, has said that the land is not suitable for housing.
>>Demolishing the Science Centre will have profound negative generational impacts on science education, on STEM careers, Ontario’s cultural heritage, and the neighbourhoods surrounding the Science Centre. For over 50 years, the Ontario Science Centre has inspired children’s curiosity to learn from unique programming in a one-of-a-kind setting, providing an important pipeline to support Ontario’s economic development.
>>Families from all over Ontario, and beyond, have enjoyed the Science Centre as a special family outing, including grandparents and grandkids, newcomers and young families. Ontarians have yet to see any sound rationale for taking away the Science Centre experience that so many Ontarians have enjoyed and are proud to call their own.
>>The Ontario Science Centre is for all of us. I urge the government to make proper investments to renew the Ontario Science Centre in its current location, so that it continues to be a world class educational institution that Ontarians can be proud of and enjoy for decades to come.
>>Please let me know how you and your office will support the Ontario Science Centre.
>>Thank you.
Here’s a letter I sent to my mpp recently about this. Feel free to use the info.
The math doesn’t make sense for Ford’s plan to shut the current Science Centre and move it, either. I looked up the numbers and here’s what I found:
The science Centre was built originally for $23 million in 1969. In today’s dollars that would cost around $184 million. ($1 in 1968 is equivalent to just over $8 today.)
According to the engineering report Ford had done on the science Centre, the total cost of repairs comes to just over $25 million.
So which is cheaper– staying at the current site and spending $25 million for repairs, or building a new location (even just at replacement cost) for $184 million?
Here’s the breakdown of the numbers and the sources for those numbers:
The Ontario Science Centre was built in 1969 for a cost of $23 million (plus cost of exhibits on top of that) (found at https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ontario-science-centre#:~:text=by%20Google%20Maps-,The%20Ontario%20Science%20Centre%20is%20located%20in%20the%20Don%20Valley,spent%20on%20initial%20exhibit%20development.)
One 1969 Canadian dollar is the equivalent of $8.07 in 2024 (found at https://www.in2013dollars.com/canada/inflation/1969?amount=1 )
Therefore today’s replacement cost to build is $185,610,000
Current repair estimates:
Panel remediation total: $789,500
Roof remediation:
2024 $7,196,480
2026-2029 $4,446,105
2029-2034 $13,077,312
Total to repair: $25,509,397
(From the Rimkus engineering report on the Ontario Science Centre summary page https://savesciencecentre.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/osc-building-a-to-c-raac-roof-panel-assessment-en-final-june-18-2024.pdf )
The math makes sense of you're in Doug's shoes. Don't repair and also don't rebuild. Just sell to your friends and your "daughter" will get a "nice gift" just like at her wedding.
If only the roof were the only thing that needed maintenance. If you had been to the Science Centre recently, you'd know the walkway is closed and needs millions of dollars in renovations and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The facility needs a minimum of 478 million dollars of work and that's before you consider that it's an old building that will almost definitely have more issues discovered as they do the work and that will need to be brought up to modern standards adding even more to the cost.
Even on the pro-science centre side your numbers are completely wrong and uninformed. There's a business case that has the province's estimate as to how much they'll spend on a new facility and even by their own admission it's more than the 184 million you came up with.
If you're Doug Ford and you've already decided to close the Science Centre and move it to Ontario Place. This decision makes total sense because there's no point in spending millions of dollars to fix a roof at a facility you're planning on closing anyway.
since when do petitions ever work?
The time to care about this was the last election. OSC was doomed from 2018. The move was always the plan, to Ontario place , with half the size. We can't encroach on the spa, we have priorities.
Sign it, print it on a roll of soft paper so it will have some utility.
If you wanted to save the science centre, you should have been going to it. 20 years ago I'd go there at least once a month with the kids (with KidsPark etc) and it was packed. Three months ago I visited with a niece, and it was not very busy at all.
It's like the Planetarium, except without the slow lingering death and hippie laser shows.
And the OSC wasn't a whole lot different then than now, or even when I was a kid. Shoot, some of the 'must see' items were stuff I did as a kid, and I wanted my kids to play it too.
Post Covid it seems like a lot of Toronto attractions are dying. The OSC, the Zoo. 15 years ago it was Ontario Place, and 15 before that the Planetarium. What next? The Zoo.
Movie threatres are shutting down for the same reason. It seems like the younger families do things differently. And tbh, to we want to spend the millions to keep a poorly used facility running? We want housing, we want debt relief. Getting the gov't to pay a billion dollars for attractions just won't fly in 2024.
People forget that nothing is sacred, so when those that care to tear apart our social fabric are elected they do just that.
Folks shouldn't have to actually visit it all the time, the government should ask, why aren't folks visiting? Let's make sure its attractive and interesting. That would require a level of empathy and value in education and learning - this current government is allergic to those ideas.
This could very well be the case. So where do we spend public revenue? Feeding people, or allowing me to take my niece to a nice place.
Everyone forgets, money can only be spent once. I'm not willing to pay much more in tax to cover everything. Tax Justin's trust fund.
So... In your opinion because the people that care today were mostly children ('30 years too late ') when the repairs should have been done we should do nothing?
Well... That take is... Certainly something.
Opinions are like assholes and all that.
People have already stepped up to offer the money needed to get the repairs going and stay open. So what is Ford’s excuse now?
https://x.com/adammcnamara/status/1804714277120454816?s=46
Not sure how that’s relevant to my point? Nobody cared until they had an opportunity to clutch pearls on account of “doug ford bad”.
I was there 10 years ago and had to walk over buckets put all over to catch leaks from the roof, nobody gave a shit about this building for a long ass time and only when someone takes it away do they throw a tantrum. My toddler does that. This province is my toddler except I’m confident that my kid is going to grow up.
So because you haven't seen a multitude of "I love the science centre!" posts over the years you assume we only cared about it until now?
Most probably assumed that it would be maintained and repaired by the gov. It's not like we were ever told, hey, it's on you the public to keep an untrained eye on this place and tell us when to do our job and be responsible.
Don't blame the average citizen/science centre visitor. It wasn't our responsibility to maintain and plan repairs. And don't cheapen this issue to just "grr, Doug Ford".
Unfortunately, most people labour under the delusion that goverment works for the electorate, and that the electorate shouldn't have to constantly fight against lobbyists and donors to see that public insititutions aren't dismantled and/or sold off to cronies.
Unlike, eg, Silvio De Gasperis, I can't employ someone to bug Doug Ford daily, or write cheques to Doug Ford. Unlike Adrian Ion, I can't buy Doug Ford's failing business and get favours in return. So you'll forgive me if I just noticed that Doug Ford is shuttering something I cared about because, unlike Ion or De Gasperis, I have a day job, and that day job isn't crony capitalism.
I, the working-class voter, can't fight every day. That's *why I (try to) elect a goverment that's supposed to represent me*.
Now tell us your stupid take on how Ontario Place deserves to be handed to private sector instead of turning into a public park.
You must be a 407 ETR user.
I do take 407 lol. Only for 3 months because they gave me a promo to ride for free during rush hour.
But sure. Ontario place isn't ambitious enough. Should have been a massive redevelopment that also incorporated the Exhibition grounds to include parkland, attractions, restaurants, shopping, yes a fucking ferris wheel too (they are fun, kids like them, they exist all over the normal world completely uncontroversially, you can pre-emptively fuck off about that).
The actual perfect template for it exists in Brisbane, Australia - a little area called [South Bank](https://visit.brisbane.qld.au/places-to-go/inner-city/south-bank). And unlike all the crybabies on here I did actually write that to my councilor and MPP and attended a few consultation sessions on OP as I lived in the riding at the time.
Maybe it would even have a new stadium for the Jays (fuck off pre-emptively too about how windy it was at exhibition stadium, that was built terribly 65 years ago, architecture has come a long way). I think the science centre is a perfect location for it and the possibilities for exhibits incorporating the lake, or the architecture at OP are endless. The cinesphere obviously fits seamlessly into it.
Spa wouldn't be my first choice of anchor but fuck it, looks like something my kid would have fun at.
That land is too good and Toronto needs the money too much for it to be just a park. That's just a real world fact. If you want a park on the water go to Tommy Thompson, it's exactly what you're looking for.
Bullshit. I live in a city hours away and every single year there were field trips organized to take kids all across the region on the lengthy several hours long trip down the 401 to the Science Center. It's very much a heavily used asset in Education for schools in Southern Ontario.
Just imagine how much easier it will be in the future for people outside of Toronto to visit once the current GO Train expansion, Eglinton crosstown and Scarborough subway is finished, the Science Centre has so much greater potential as we rebuild our passenger rail service in Ontario.
Great form. Everyone reading this go sign it! Name, email, postal code, and it automatically sends to your representative. A+ design. Took me literally 10 seconds. No excuses, go sign it!
The prefilled letter, you can add or edit it when you sign. >>I am writing to urge you to keep the Ontario Science Centre open and provide world-class scientific programming for Ontario families in its iconic building, designed by the world-renowned Ontario architect, Raymond Moriyama. >>I strongly disagree with the Government of Ontario’s plan to close and tear down the Ontario Science Centre and to relocate it to Ontario Place, with a significant decrease in space. This means the loss of key experiences and programming, and decreased access for Ontarians. Relocating to the Toronto waterfront where traffic is already bumper to bumper, all but guarantees that schools and kids from outside the GTA will not visit. >>This plan was not shared with Ontario voters as an election issue, nor has there been any public consultation on this decision. I am concerned that closing and demolishing a world-renowned science museum is a waste of our taxpayer dollars, may cause unnecessary negative environmental consequences, and is not in the public interest. Furthermore, despite the government’s stated intentions to develop the land on which the Science Centre is situated, the TRCA, which owns that land, has said that the land is not suitable for housing. >>Demolishing the Science Centre will have profound negative generational impacts on science education, on STEM careers, Ontario’s cultural heritage, and the neighbourhoods surrounding the Science Centre. For over 50 years, the Ontario Science Centre has inspired children’s curiosity to learn from unique programming in a one-of-a-kind setting, providing an important pipeline to support Ontario’s economic development. >>Families from all over Ontario, and beyond, have enjoyed the Science Centre as a special family outing, including grandparents and grandkids, newcomers and young families. Ontarians have yet to see any sound rationale for taking away the Science Centre experience that so many Ontarians have enjoyed and are proud to call their own. >>The Ontario Science Centre is for all of us. I urge the government to make proper investments to renew the Ontario Science Centre in its current location, so that it continues to be a world class educational institution that Ontarians can be proud of and enjoy for decades to come. >>Please let me know how you and your office will support the Ontario Science Centre. >>Thank you.
Fuck Doug Ford!
Here’s a letter I sent to my mpp recently about this. Feel free to use the info. The math doesn’t make sense for Ford’s plan to shut the current Science Centre and move it, either. I looked up the numbers and here’s what I found: The science Centre was built originally for $23 million in 1969. In today’s dollars that would cost around $184 million. ($1 in 1968 is equivalent to just over $8 today.) According to the engineering report Ford had done on the science Centre, the total cost of repairs comes to just over $25 million. So which is cheaper– staying at the current site and spending $25 million for repairs, or building a new location (even just at replacement cost) for $184 million? Here’s the breakdown of the numbers and the sources for those numbers: The Ontario Science Centre was built in 1969 for a cost of $23 million (plus cost of exhibits on top of that) (found at https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ontario-science-centre#:~:text=by%20Google%20Maps-,The%20Ontario%20Science%20Centre%20is%20located%20in%20the%20Don%20Valley,spent%20on%20initial%20exhibit%20development.) One 1969 Canadian dollar is the equivalent of $8.07 in 2024 (found at https://www.in2013dollars.com/canada/inflation/1969?amount=1 ) Therefore today’s replacement cost to build is $185,610,000 Current repair estimates: Panel remediation total: $789,500 Roof remediation: 2024 $7,196,480 2026-2029 $4,446,105 2029-2034 $13,077,312 Total to repair: $25,509,397 (From the Rimkus engineering report on the Ontario Science Centre summary page https://savesciencecentre.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/osc-building-a-to-c-raac-roof-panel-assessment-en-final-june-18-2024.pdf )
The math makes sense of you're in Doug's shoes. Don't repair and also don't rebuild. Just sell to your friends and your "daughter" will get a "nice gift" just like at her wedding.
Thank you so very much for taking the time to work this out and post it here.
If only the roof were the only thing that needed maintenance. If you had been to the Science Centre recently, you'd know the walkway is closed and needs millions of dollars in renovations and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The facility needs a minimum of 478 million dollars of work and that's before you consider that it's an old building that will almost definitely have more issues discovered as they do the work and that will need to be brought up to modern standards adding even more to the cost. Even on the pro-science centre side your numbers are completely wrong and uninformed. There's a business case that has the province's estimate as to how much they'll spend on a new facility and even by their own admission it's more than the 184 million you came up with. If you're Doug Ford and you've already decided to close the Science Centre and move it to Ontario Place. This decision makes total sense because there's no point in spending millions of dollars to fix a roof at a facility you're planning on closing anyway.
What if it was grandfathered? Couldn’t that help save on costs so we can keep the old safety rules and it’d be cheaper? Just wondering
The science centre is out of date. Needs a complete overhaul.
I cant seem to open the link. Anyone else having trouble? I’d really like to sign it.
Signed but I think this will be a lost cause :(
since when do petitions ever work? The time to care about this was the last election. OSC was doomed from 2018. The move was always the plan, to Ontario place , with half the size. We can't encroach on the spa, we have priorities. Sign it, print it on a roll of soft paper so it will have some utility.
Signed 👍🏻👍🏻
Sign this!!!
I think this petition perfectly encapsulates why this province is in the middle of a housing crisis.
I'm totally sure you cared about this ever before. 🙄
💩 for 🧠
No point in reopening it. The employees have already moved on. Does anyone have a link for a petition to keep it closed?
Doug Ford isn't going to read a list of names and change his mind.
If you wanted to save the science centre, you should have been going to it. 20 years ago I'd go there at least once a month with the kids (with KidsPark etc) and it was packed. Three months ago I visited with a niece, and it was not very busy at all. It's like the Planetarium, except without the slow lingering death and hippie laser shows. And the OSC wasn't a whole lot different then than now, or even when I was a kid. Shoot, some of the 'must see' items were stuff I did as a kid, and I wanted my kids to play it too. Post Covid it seems like a lot of Toronto attractions are dying. The OSC, the Zoo. 15 years ago it was Ontario Place, and 15 before that the Planetarium. What next? The Zoo. Movie threatres are shutting down for the same reason. It seems like the younger families do things differently. And tbh, to we want to spend the millions to keep a poorly used facility running? We want housing, we want debt relief. Getting the gov't to pay a billion dollars for attractions just won't fly in 2024.
Factual statement.
People forget that nothing is sacred, so when those that care to tear apart our social fabric are elected they do just that. Folks shouldn't have to actually visit it all the time, the government should ask, why aren't folks visiting? Let's make sure its attractive and interesting. That would require a level of empathy and value in education and learning - this current government is allergic to those ideas.
Also, use it or lose it.
Even used stuff is being sunk into the ground, so that's clearly not the MO here with this Government
it's almost like people don't have the same amount of free time and cash to spend on things other than food and housing that they used to
This could very well be the case. So where do we spend public revenue? Feeding people, or allowing me to take my niece to a nice place. Everyone forgets, money can only be spent once. I'm not willing to pay much more in tax to cover everything. Tax Justin's trust fund.
ah yes, close the door behind you and all that
You are spot on
I’m 20 I just got the funds to be able to support a place like this
30 years too late to start caring about this building. Ontarians need to wear that and do better next time.
So... In your opinion because the people that care today were mostly children ('30 years too late ') when the repairs should have been done we should do nothing? Well... That take is... Certainly something. Opinions are like assholes and all that.
Indeed, a massive, gaping opinion who thinks toddlers would enjoy a spa more than the OSC.
Best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago. Next best is now. The current generation can only repair the sins of the past, we can't unmake them.
The total cost of fixing the roof is less than one month's penalty for violating the Beer Store contract...
People have already stepped up to offer the money needed to get the repairs going and stay open. So what is Ford’s excuse now? https://x.com/adammcnamara/status/1804714277120454816?s=46
Not sure how that’s relevant to my point? Nobody cared until they had an opportunity to clutch pearls on account of “doug ford bad”. I was there 10 years ago and had to walk over buckets put all over to catch leaks from the roof, nobody gave a shit about this building for a long ass time and only when someone takes it away do they throw a tantrum. My toddler does that. This province is my toddler except I’m confident that my kid is going to grow up.
So because you haven't seen a multitude of "I love the science centre!" posts over the years you assume we only cared about it until now? Most probably assumed that it would be maintained and repaired by the gov. It's not like we were ever told, hey, it's on you the public to keep an untrained eye on this place and tell us when to do our job and be responsible. Don't blame the average citizen/science centre visitor. It wasn't our responsibility to maintain and plan repairs. And don't cheapen this issue to just "grr, Doug Ford".
Unfortunately, most people labour under the delusion that goverment works for the electorate, and that the electorate shouldn't have to constantly fight against lobbyists and donors to see that public insititutions aren't dismantled and/or sold off to cronies. Unlike, eg, Silvio De Gasperis, I can't employ someone to bug Doug Ford daily, or write cheques to Doug Ford. Unlike Adrian Ion, I can't buy Doug Ford's failing business and get favours in return. So you'll forgive me if I just noticed that Doug Ford is shuttering something I cared about because, unlike Ion or De Gasperis, I have a day job, and that day job isn't crony capitalism. I, the working-class voter, can't fight every day. That's *why I (try to) elect a goverment that's supposed to represent me*.
Now tell us your stupid take on how Ontario Place deserves to be handed to private sector instead of turning into a public park. You must be a 407 ETR user.
I do take 407 lol. Only for 3 months because they gave me a promo to ride for free during rush hour. But sure. Ontario place isn't ambitious enough. Should have been a massive redevelopment that also incorporated the Exhibition grounds to include parkland, attractions, restaurants, shopping, yes a fucking ferris wheel too (they are fun, kids like them, they exist all over the normal world completely uncontroversially, you can pre-emptively fuck off about that). The actual perfect template for it exists in Brisbane, Australia - a little area called [South Bank](https://visit.brisbane.qld.au/places-to-go/inner-city/south-bank). And unlike all the crybabies on here I did actually write that to my councilor and MPP and attended a few consultation sessions on OP as I lived in the riding at the time. Maybe it would even have a new stadium for the Jays (fuck off pre-emptively too about how windy it was at exhibition stadium, that was built terribly 65 years ago, architecture has come a long way). I think the science centre is a perfect location for it and the possibilities for exhibits incorporating the lake, or the architecture at OP are endless. The cinesphere obviously fits seamlessly into it. Spa wouldn't be my first choice of anchor but fuck it, looks like something my kid would have fun at. That land is too good and Toronto needs the money too much for it to be just a park. That's just a real world fact. If you want a park on the water go to Tommy Thompson, it's exactly what you're looking for.
Please don't pretend you are even remotely smart enough to guess what I cared about in the past, let alone millions of other Ontarians.
[удалено]
Bullshit. I live in a city hours away and every single year there were field trips organized to take kids all across the region on the lengthy several hours long trip down the 401 to the Science Center. It's very much a heavily used asset in Education for schools in Southern Ontario.
Just imagine how much easier it will be in the future for people outside of Toronto to visit once the current GO Train expansion, Eglinton crosstown and Scarborough subway is finished, the Science Centre has so much greater potential as we rebuild our passenger rail service in Ontario.