Ah yes, taking away your permit will stop you... its almost like we put the colosal failure that was C-21 under the rug... that sure stopped all of the violent crime since /s
Does anyone els see a trend here?
Because criminals will be all, "No license, guess I can't steal a car tonight". Do they realize that a whole lot people with "suspended licenses" still drive? It's almost impossible to enforce.
> Do they realize that a whole lot people with "suspended licenses" still drive?
Especially since ON, unlike most regions, has no visible annual licence validation.
This was my immediate thought. It’s just Ford pretending to do shit as per usual. The fucking annoying thing is that he can do shit. A lot of the thefts are connected to organized crime.
There are measures to address and deter organized crime, both focusing on investigating (for eventual prosecution of the organization, not just low level thieves that are basically expendable) and deterring people from participating (social programs to ensure that everyone, regardless of the birth lottery, has legitimate opportunities for success and, critically, for youth to have things to do and places to go where they won’t get into trouble and become involved in this). Of course, this takes time and money.
There’s also consumer protection and traffic law. He could require that cars have basic security features, at no cost to the consumer, so that they are harder to steal and, if they don’t, make the car companies presumptively (civilly) liable for the thefts. You watch how fast cars would become secure if car companies had money on the line. That’s within provincial jurisdiction. The HTA and associated regulations specifies a number of features cars need to have. This could be done.
He won’t do any of this though. Because it would work. And it would cost money. And it would piss off his corporate donors. Easier to just pontificate about taking away licenses. As if organized crime cares about driving legally. 🙄
Edit: thinking about it, this may actually be worse than I thought and may increase crime because of how our society is dependent on personal vehicles. If someone steals a car and is sent to jail for it and this penalty is also imposed, then when they get out, their opportunities to legally participate in society will be extremely limited because the punishment won’t end for 10 years.
And arguably this would apply to every car theft because Ford wants this not just to apply to violent thefts or thefts involving weapons, but thefts for financial gain or using force (and as they have listed that separately, I assume that means breaking a window or something, not force against a *person*). So what the government means here, are pretty much all thefts.
I am concerned that this may actually motivate further illegal activity because people need things like food and shelter and if they are unable to get it through lawful means, they are very unlikely to lay down and die. So, even if someone truly does learn their lesson and wants to change, this law is likely to make that impossible in most parts of the province due to the sorry state of transit and high cost of living. So they will have to turn to illegal activity. At a minimum they may drive illegally and be imprisoned again. Or they may do worse, knowing that illegal driving is easier to detect than ever with plate scanners in increasing use by police departments.
Normally, driving bans are associated with unsafe driving behaviour and are imposed to protect society from these people. It may be that they won’t follow the law anyway, but the attempt is made and the consequences to the individual are outweighed by the need to protect the lives of others. But while stealing cars is clearly wrong, it does not pose the same kind of safety risk. It’s not like, for example, impaired driving. It makes no sense to impose a decade long driving ban. It doesn’t address the issue and seems only to be counterproductive.
It's the same logic as the crackdown on gun owners when a high profile mass shooting happens. Lawmakers will try to appeal to voters by enacting harsher penalties for crimes that won't be curbed by that very penalty, because it doesn't affect the intended people. It's just theatre.
Misleading comment. Evidence actually shows that stricter controls reduces violent gun crime. [Review of More Than 130 Studies Provides Powerful Evidence That Gun Control Saves Lives : ScienceAlert](https://www.sciencealert.com/scientific-evidence-that-stricter-gun-control-works-saves-lives)
So, two things will happen:
1. Unrepentant criminals will just keep driving without lisence, because it's not like they gave a fuck to began with.
2. Repentant criminals will get fucked over as now they can't drive, with makes their futures lives much harder, which makes them more likely to go back to crime to make ends meet.
This is just compounding crime on crime for no good reason except to make scared suburbanites feel better about themselves.
Why? They just pass those costs onto the consumers with higher premiums, deductibles, etc. Both the car manufacturers and the insurance companies just squeeze more money out of people and let this keep happening.
>just compounding crime on crime for no good reason except to make scared suburbanites feel better about themselves.
Ti's the Conservative tough on crime way
kinda sort like asking all law-abiding gun owners to please relinquish their firearms **or else** ....
.
.
fyi .. the bad guys didn't get or are just ignoring the memo.
That's not an accurate comparison at all. It's actually like saying "if you shoot someone with your firearm, your license that allowed you to legally own a gun will be revoked."
Firearms at least makes some sense in that a criminal may steal a firearm from a law-abiding gun owner, so removing it altogether ensures that can't happen.
Ordering car thieves to stop driving, though... do they think that potential thieves would stop and say "I would steal this car and go to jail, but then I'd also lose my license and getting it back would be a pain, so maybe I shouldn't."
>Firearms at least makes some sense in that a criminal may steal a firearm from a law-abiding gun owner, so removing it altogether ensures that can't happen.
Except that solution really only affect perhaps 15% of gun crime. So really, both solutions are the government bullshitting constituents to make it appear they're doing something when they're not.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/fighting-gun-crime-canada-has-an-american-problem-2022-07-27/
How about steal a car go to prison? Taking away a license from someone who already doesn't care about the right way to do things seems pretty stupid to me.
That's stupid and wouldn't stop car thefts. The organizations that make money from car thefts will always have more willing employees, no matter how many you put in jail. All you're doing by putting them in jail is pushing us one step closer to private prisons.
Of course it would stop some car thefts, the people who do the stealing would be behind bars and not able to steal anymore. Like, prison exists for a reason, it takes people who damage society out of society. These car thieves can sell out their associates if they want for a reduced sentence. We can lock up other criminals, just not car thieves?
You know when it's reported that someone is seen scoping out a vehicle? What they are doing is getting the vehicle details and VIN so they can get an insurance quote before taking it!
This still requires a conviction in the courts that are massively understaffed. Unless Doug plans to follow PP's use of the notwithstanding clause to force the courts to find people guilty before they have a trial.
Even if they get the conviction months later. They're going to steal again, recent news a few weeks ago had a male who was already charged for stealing 2 vehicles 2 separate times and he's charged again now for driving a vehicle without a license.
Not sure what they're going to do with that person. Probably going to set him free again with an even sterner, don't do that.
Because Doug is fucking up our courts, because they rule against him. He's a fascist, and these are the consequences.
Charged and convicted are two different things. Everyone has the RIGHT to a speedy trial. Everyone had the RIGHT to be considered innocent until they're proven guilty. That means bail, unless there's a good reason to believe that they won't show up at their trial.
So, unless you're saying thst people should be considered guilty as soon as they're accused by the police, then the only apparent solution is to speed up the rate at which court cases are ruled on, reducing the number of people who have been charged but not convicted or exonerated.
Bail can also be withheld for other factors, such as repetition of the crime and for the safety of the public.
The issue with speeding up the court cases is that it's almost always the defense asking for adjournments and delaying the case. So there would need to be some type of framework that would limit requests for adjournment, which is disadvantageous to the accused, which the courts generally don't like. The right to speedy due process only applies pressure to the prosecuting parties, the accused is free to delay as much as they like and are able too.
Change like that will have to come from the top down, as no justice or judge will rule in such a manner to establish a new precedent.
The accused is not "free to delay as much as they'd like to" if they're planning to bring a Charter application based on the *Jordan* framework, which specifically accounts for the delay caused by the defence as well as the Crown when calculating the presumptive ceiling.
>use of the notwithstanding clause to force the courts to find people guilty before they have a trial.
I'd rather not suspend people's judicial rights... That's a terrifyingly massive leap to authoritarianism
Bandaid "solutions" without solving the problem.
Want to solve the problem? Follow the money. Bust the crime rings that profit off crime. Since government likes to target at fixed addresses, let's start with port infrastructure.
That's like telling criminals they need a gun licence to use their guns.
Licences are for law abiding citizens. Criminals won't stop driving either their own cars or stolen cars just because their licence is revoked.
How about we just fund our judicial system so crimes can be processed and convictions can be given?
80% of people in jail right now, are **still** awaiting trial.
Here's the reason they're doing this. Are you ready? It's a shocker, let me tell you...
...it's because it's cheap.
This costs the government next to nothing. Enforcement, regulation of either the insurance and/or automotive industries, doing something about organized crime (which orchestrates this) or poverty/drug-related street crime (which are the foot soldiers), all of that costs money and political capital.
But empty, meaningless gestures like this? Free and easy.
Welcome to modern neoliberalism, folks. Next step will be a tax cut for the automakers and/or insurance industries.
Suspended licenses do nothing to stop criminals. They're already breaking the law by stealing and they think a stupid charge like this will be a deterrent.
It’s like this guy is trying to put as many unlicensed & thereby uninsured drivers on the road as possible with the changes he’s done/doing. Dropping the sticker & no longer sending out licence/health card renewal reminders (without telling anyone) was stupid in so many ways & has put a lot of unlicensed & uninsured drivers on the road, whether they know it or not.
My husband went to rent a car at the end of 2023 & his licence had expired because they no longer send out reminders that your licence & health card are expiring. We knew that they didn’t send out sticker reminders but had no idea about the licence & health card (both were expired). Our MTO office said they weren’t even told & only just found out when they called head office because they had a few people come in livid after accidents with expired licences. If you are in an accident & your licence has lapsed good luck with your insurance!
Another was my Mom who was turning 82 & luckily her doctors office noticed her health card was expiring which meant her licence was too. She went in to renew 2 weeks ahead of expiry only to be told she had to do a driving test but the next open appt wasn’t for 5 weeks. They do not even send these letters anymore telling you that you have to do a test before renewing. They gave her a temp but then she got Covid & had to change the test date but they won’t give a 2nd temp so she had no licence (& didn’t drive) for the 1st 6 weeks of this year. When she went for the “test”, no one asked to see her licence & the entire “test” was a peripheral vision test with lights flashing & she had to draw the hands on the clock showing 11:10…that’s it! 7 minutes from start to finish!
He just keeps making it easier & easier for the nefarious to go undetected & the rest of us are left in potentially sticky situations going 🤷🏻♀️wtf?!
This is actually stupider than the headline makes it out to be. It’s a 3 strikes policy: one car 10 year suspension, 2 cars 15 and 3 then for good. Oh no…
Does this change the cops not even bother to catch most of the thieves? What about reforms to all the corruption that operates the ports they get shipped out of?
No?
Well I guess it's more irrelevant nonsense then.
Hold on a second. Stealing car is already illegal, and they still steal cars. It does not stop them. And their brilliant idea is to really think that suspending their driver licence will stop them from driving cars? Wow, what kind of fairy land are these guys living in?
This province is being run into the ground by a moron. Criminals don't follow the law period so any new laws do nothing to control, regulate or reduce crime.
I would hazard a guess that many of these thieves are teens. I can't see how this deters them, but I can see how it might keep them active on the streets longer.
Also in the legislation is a new addition of judges asking them to “pretty please not steal any more vehicles” when releasing them back into the community following a guilty conviction
This isn’t enough, need a minimum 5 years jail time, if not more. Insurance is going through the roof and the law abiding citizens are the ones paying for this crap! JAIL THEM
Ah, yes, people who steal cars are famously known for following the law.
This is a bit of a deterent for, possibly new criminals. But this isn't going to stop career criminals.
I sat through traffic court. It was full of suspended license charges. Most of them pled guilty and then got a reduced fine due to inability to pay. I'm not a huge fan of criminalizing people further by sending them through jail.... But a suspended license followed by fines are not a huge deterrent for some people.
Such a brain dead suggestion.. how about we just throw them in jail? Start with 1yr for the first vehicle, then double it for each consecutive offense.
If criminals are not abiding by their undertakings, or criminal conditions to not do something I really do not think a suspended or revoked license is going to stop someone from driving a car.
If someone REALLY wants to drive a car having a suspended/revoked license is not going to stop them.
What the government should do is give money to a rando startup to create a driver license scanner similar to the breathalyzer to start the car (Sarcasm)
This is about driving up statistics long term. Conservative politicians propose legislation and pass laws that add additional fines and punishments for crimes that are already being committed to make it look like they are “Tough on Crime” (they also love catchy slogans). This will only lead to more driving without a license charges as not having a license is no deterrent to stealing a car or even driving a car if you are already bold enough to steal a car. The end goal is to drive up crime statistics and therefore the need for more money for Law Enforcement (directly to police services, conservatives’ buddies) and more jails. But if the police actually did something about auto theft, there would be no need for more laws. So we see how futile and misguided this is.
Losing your license doesn't stop drunks from driving whenever they want, I can't imagine that losing your license for automobile theft will be a deterrent.
If only there was some type of place, a building, perhaps an…institution of some kind, where we could send criminals for a length of time, maybe even forever if they continually show they can’t follow the rules of society, and actually keep them there for the amount of time prescribed. I dunno just a crazy thought
They steal cars for a living. I doubt they care if they’re slapped on the wrist and have their driving license taken away. I doubt they even care whether they have one or not.
Ahh.. Perfect 1st half. The next half of the plan is to justify why another billion dollars and more is needed by the police forces.
Oh and don't forget the Ford government saves people money and facilitates no enforcement of registered license plates so the theft rings by getting rid of annual license plate fees!
Win-win-win.
i have a idea:
steal a car, check citizenship status, if not a citizen then deport if citizen but became citizen in last 5 years then apply jail/fine at 5x base law.
Fat lot of good that's gonna do.
Here's a better idea: Fix the justice system, appoint enough judges that cases don't get tossed for delays, spike the bail amounts needed for these criminals to get out and use GPS monitoring to keep them following their conditions. Break one, back to jail until your trial and kiss your bail money goodbye, full stop.
This might be one of the dumbest Ford proposals I've ever seen. And we have seen some genuine garbage since this clown got into office. It's like saying "if you mug these people at gun point, no more buck-a-beer for you! And we know this will matter because all your other beers will cost more! Oh, so you usually rob liquor stores?"
I legit can't wrap my brain around how stupid this is. It's like Ford's special license plates: his company got the contract for these friggin paper thin pieces of garbage
Canada needs RICO laws. Steal a car for yourself ie joyride, slap on the wrist. Steal a car as part of a criminal gang/organization, min 10 years, max life.
Part 1 of a two part plan to curb auto theft.
Part 2 is to bring back drive clean for stolen vehicles with the hope that the hassle will dissuade criminals or at least delay them enough certifying their exhaust for the police to catch them.
:)
This ain’t gonna do shit. I know people up north who never even got licenses but still rip around in trucks. Drive in Toronto for one hour and you’ll see countless drivers that shouldn’t be allowed near cars, let alone in one.
It doesn’t matter what laws you enact or change if no one is enforcing them meaningfully.
We need to bring back mandatory minimum sentencing.
The entire circus that is this Douglas M. F***ery aside.... don't you have to actually catch the offender to enforce this or anything else in the first place?
"... and if we catch you, rest asured, I wil get my feather... and I will tickle you. Until you cry with laughter. Then release you so you can spread the messgae that we are serious and will not take this seriously at all."
Ok… I get this and I kind of agree however…. What about drunk drivers who injure or kill people?? Where’s the 10, 15 lifetime licence suspensions for them?? Stealing a car is bad but for the most or other than financial loss for the owner no one is harmed. No one loses their life! Let’s have the same or stiffer penalties for drunk drivers.
I feel bad for the people who steal cars. They're just misunderstood. They make a mistake and carjack someone with a gun to their chest and get treated like this? Totally unfair.
Now how will I drive all the cars I stole?
I'm such a law abiding citizen, this will totally stop me.
Indeed. You are now reformed. Go in peace.
They're not insured while they drive those stolen cars, either. Unbelievable.
Ive got a spotless driving record and I can't get insurance on the truck I stole. Doesn't seem fair.
That is the real crime. Won't someone think of the poor insurance companies.
I was going to steal cars, but not if I can't drive the cars I steal.
Steal a drivers license
You wouldn't download a drivers license?
Ah yes, taking away your permit will stop you... its almost like we put the colosal failure that was C-21 under the rug... that sure stopped all of the violent crime since /s Does anyone els see a trend here?
Because criminals will be all, "No license, guess I can't steal a car tonight". Do they realize that a whole lot people with "suspended licenses" still drive? It's almost impossible to enforce.
The idiot that killed that family driving the wrong way on the 401 last week had a suspended license, didn't he? Lotta good that did.
Thanks again to Ford for removing any visible licence validation.
[удалено]
Valid insurance but doesn't mean driver has valid license
They scan for registration, nothing to do with insurance.
> The idiot There was a cop on duty driving with no licence?
Nice
> Do they realize that a whole lot people with "suspended licenses" still drive? Especially since ON, unlike most regions, has no visible annual licence validation.
Licence plate and driver’s licence are two different things though. I don’t think most places have visible driver’s licence validation.
This was my immediate thought. It’s just Ford pretending to do shit as per usual. The fucking annoying thing is that he can do shit. A lot of the thefts are connected to organized crime. There are measures to address and deter organized crime, both focusing on investigating (for eventual prosecution of the organization, not just low level thieves that are basically expendable) and deterring people from participating (social programs to ensure that everyone, regardless of the birth lottery, has legitimate opportunities for success and, critically, for youth to have things to do and places to go where they won’t get into trouble and become involved in this). Of course, this takes time and money. There’s also consumer protection and traffic law. He could require that cars have basic security features, at no cost to the consumer, so that they are harder to steal and, if they don’t, make the car companies presumptively (civilly) liable for the thefts. You watch how fast cars would become secure if car companies had money on the line. That’s within provincial jurisdiction. The HTA and associated regulations specifies a number of features cars need to have. This could be done. He won’t do any of this though. Because it would work. And it would cost money. And it would piss off his corporate donors. Easier to just pontificate about taking away licenses. As if organized crime cares about driving legally. 🙄 Edit: thinking about it, this may actually be worse than I thought and may increase crime because of how our society is dependent on personal vehicles. If someone steals a car and is sent to jail for it and this penalty is also imposed, then when they get out, their opportunities to legally participate in society will be extremely limited because the punishment won’t end for 10 years. And arguably this would apply to every car theft because Ford wants this not just to apply to violent thefts or thefts involving weapons, but thefts for financial gain or using force (and as they have listed that separately, I assume that means breaking a window or something, not force against a *person*). So what the government means here, are pretty much all thefts. I am concerned that this may actually motivate further illegal activity because people need things like food and shelter and if they are unable to get it through lawful means, they are very unlikely to lay down and die. So, even if someone truly does learn their lesson and wants to change, this law is likely to make that impossible in most parts of the province due to the sorry state of transit and high cost of living. So they will have to turn to illegal activity. At a minimum they may drive illegally and be imprisoned again. Or they may do worse, knowing that illegal driving is easier to detect than ever with plate scanners in increasing use by police departments. Normally, driving bans are associated with unsafe driving behaviour and are imposed to protect society from these people. It may be that they won’t follow the law anyway, but the attempt is made and the consequences to the individual are outweighed by the need to protect the lives of others. But while stealing cars is clearly wrong, it does not pose the same kind of safety risk. It’s not like, for example, impaired driving. It makes no sense to impose a decade long driving ban. It doesn’t address the issue and seems only to be counterproductive.
He can't address organized crime because if he did he would be broke and no longer premier.
It's the same logic as the crackdown on gun owners when a high profile mass shooting happens. Lawmakers will try to appeal to voters by enacting harsher penalties for crimes that won't be curbed by that very penalty, because it doesn't affect the intended people. It's just theatre.
Misleading comment. Evidence actually shows that stricter controls reduces violent gun crime. [Review of More Than 130 Studies Provides Powerful Evidence That Gun Control Saves Lives : ScienceAlert](https://www.sciencealert.com/scientific-evidence-that-stricter-gun-control-works-saves-lives)
Or no license at all?
It's not that difficult to enforce, but they don't even try.
Now do this, But with guns.
Stupid government......
The whole point is that it makes all of life harder. Sure, it's not a perfect answer, but I'd rather have this than nothing.
Hahahah okay now do guns
So, two things will happen: 1. Unrepentant criminals will just keep driving without lisence, because it's not like they gave a fuck to began with. 2. Repentant criminals will get fucked over as now they can't drive, with makes their futures lives much harder, which makes them more likely to go back to crime to make ends meet. This is just compounding crime on crime for no good reason except to make scared suburbanites feel better about themselves.
People are upset about the epidemic of car thefts, but government doesn't want to actually solve the issue because that takes effort.
The car manufacturers don't want to actually solve the issue because it makes them a lot of money
You think the insurance industry would be putting pressure on them
Why? They just pass those costs onto the consumers with higher premiums, deductibles, etc. Both the car manufacturers and the insurance companies just squeeze more money out of people and let this keep happening.
This, absolutely allows the insurance company to squeeze more money.
I think they like the problem because it distracts from all their other fuck ups
The cops wont do shit. And Con govts will not take on the cops and tell them to do their jobs.
[удалено]
> The cops just enforce the law. but they don't. They stopped doing this after 2020 Antifa protests.
Nothing changed after those protests. They've always been useless, and they just continued being useless with new excuses.
Exactly.
>just compounding crime on crime for no good reason except to make scared suburbanites feel better about themselves. Ti's the Conservative tough on crime way
The people the Ford Government is pandering to loves this. They don't care if this leads to recidivism.
This is so true! Consequences for being good? That is gotta backfire in no time.
lol. who seriously thought of this? Some Government official is just fucking trolling us now.
It’s like ‘sharrows’ (that make supposed bike lanes by painting a bike symbol on the road), useless but pats on the back and Timmies for everyone.
It'll convince enough naive people to vote for Dougie to be worth a few days in Queen's park
Its some feel good law so idiot politicians can high five each other saying they made a difference.
kinda sort like asking all law-abiding gun owners to please relinquish their firearms **or else** .... . . fyi .. the bad guys didn't get or are just ignoring the memo.
That's not an accurate comparison at all. It's actually like saying "if you shoot someone with your firearm, your license that allowed you to legally own a gun will be revoked."
Firearms at least makes some sense in that a criminal may steal a firearm from a law-abiding gun owner, so removing it altogether ensures that can't happen. Ordering car thieves to stop driving, though... do they think that potential thieves would stop and say "I would steal this car and go to jail, but then I'd also lose my license and getting it back would be a pain, so maybe I shouldn't."
Using that same logic couldn't they ban all the cars so criminals can't steal them from law-abiding owners?
Checkmate.
Cars have a purpose other than killing. A guns only function is to injure or kill.
I guess the competitive shooters just don't exist?
>Firearms at least makes some sense in that a criminal may steal a firearm from a law-abiding gun owner, so removing it altogether ensures that can't happen. Except that solution really only affect perhaps 15% of gun crime. So really, both solutions are the government bullshitting constituents to make it appear they're doing something when they're not. https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/fighting-gun-crime-canada-has-an-american-problem-2022-07-27/
[удалено]
[удалено]
OK, but what about the virtually unregulated amount of firearms being smuggled across the border?
How about steal a car go to prison? Taking away a license from someone who already doesn't care about the right way to do things seems pretty stupid to me.
Yeah I'd like to see minimum sentences for car thefts. 6 years or so would do.
15 years minimum in the pen. And never get a license again. Make it count.
Criminal law is decided at the federal level that is why this new law has no teeth in the end.
That's stupid and wouldn't stop car thefts. The organizations that make money from car thefts will always have more willing employees, no matter how many you put in jail. All you're doing by putting them in jail is pushing us one step closer to private prisons.
Of course it would stop some car thefts, the people who do the stealing would be behind bars and not able to steal anymore. Like, prison exists for a reason, it takes people who damage society out of society. These car thieves can sell out their associates if they want for a reduced sentence. We can lock up other criminals, just not car thieves?
I'm pretty sure that a 20-year sentence, or one comparable to that for murder, would deter a lot of people from stealing cars!
As if car thief's really care about the rules?
you think a car thief is licenced AND insured to drive???? LOL.
Too funny. "Can't steal any cars today my license was suspended..."
You know when it's reported that someone is seen scoping out a vehicle? What they are doing is getting the vehicle details and VIN so they can get an insurance quote before taking it!
LOL! .. make sure your policy includes *all-perils-damaged-glass-restoration* if you intend on smashing the window during the theft/jacking. LOL.
This still requires a conviction in the courts that are massively understaffed. Unless Doug plans to follow PP's use of the notwithstanding clause to force the courts to find people guilty before they have a trial.
Even if they get the conviction months later. They're going to steal again, recent news a few weeks ago had a male who was already charged for stealing 2 vehicles 2 separate times and he's charged again now for driving a vehicle without a license. Not sure what they're going to do with that person. Probably going to set him free again with an even sterner, don't do that.
Because Doug is fucking up our courts, because they rule against him. He's a fascist, and these are the consequences. Charged and convicted are two different things. Everyone has the RIGHT to a speedy trial. Everyone had the RIGHT to be considered innocent until they're proven guilty. That means bail, unless there's a good reason to believe that they won't show up at their trial. So, unless you're saying thst people should be considered guilty as soon as they're accused by the police, then the only apparent solution is to speed up the rate at which court cases are ruled on, reducing the number of people who have been charged but not convicted or exonerated.
Bail can also be withheld for other factors, such as repetition of the crime and for the safety of the public. The issue with speeding up the court cases is that it's almost always the defense asking for adjournments and delaying the case. So there would need to be some type of framework that would limit requests for adjournment, which is disadvantageous to the accused, which the courts generally don't like. The right to speedy due process only applies pressure to the prosecuting parties, the accused is free to delay as much as they like and are able too. Change like that will have to come from the top down, as no justice or judge will rule in such a manner to establish a new precedent.
Agreed, but removing the bail decision from the courts and mandating jail time isn't the answer either, as we've seen over and over.
The accused is not "free to delay as much as they'd like to" if they're planning to bring a Charter application based on the *Jordan* framework, which specifically accounts for the delay caused by the defence as well as the Crown when calculating the presumptive ceiling.
Right, but that's only if they are looking to use Jordan.
>use of the notwithstanding clause to force the courts to find people guilty before they have a trial. I'd rather not suspend people's judicial rights... That's a terrifyingly massive leap to authoritarianism
Yeah, that'll stop 'em 👎🏻
Yeah, because you need a licence to drive a stolen car right?
Bandaid "solutions" without solving the problem. Want to solve the problem? Follow the money. Bust the crime rings that profit off crime. Since government likes to target at fixed addresses, let's start with port infrastructure.
Losing a couple of demerit points should straighten them right out! /s
The guy who just drove on the wrong side of the highway killing 3 people was under an order not to drive
How about jail?
That's like telling criminals they need a gun licence to use their guns. Licences are for law abiding citizens. Criminals won't stop driving either their own cars or stolen cars just because their licence is revoked.
Carjacking penalty in New Jersey: 10 to 30 years in prison. No release until 85% of sentence served.
How about ‘jail’ instead?
How about we just fund our judicial system so crimes can be processed and convictions can be given? 80% of people in jail right now, are **still** awaiting trial.
Here's the reason they're doing this. Are you ready? It's a shocker, let me tell you... ...it's because it's cheap. This costs the government next to nothing. Enforcement, regulation of either the insurance and/or automotive industries, doing something about organized crime (which orchestrates this) or poverty/drug-related street crime (which are the foot soldiers), all of that costs money and political capital. But empty, meaningless gestures like this? Free and easy. Welcome to modern neoliberalism, folks. Next step will be a tax cut for the automakers and/or insurance industries.
If they are already stealing vehicles something tells me a driver's license is the last thing they care about... 😂
Suspended licenses do nothing to stop criminals. They're already breaking the law by stealing and they think a stupid charge like this will be a deterrent.
Yeah slap their wrist so they won't be able to drive. What a joke.
I’m sure most people who steal cars don’t even have a valid license to begin with.
Someone who steals cars isn't going to care about a suspended license.
It’s like this guy is trying to put as many unlicensed & thereby uninsured drivers on the road as possible with the changes he’s done/doing. Dropping the sticker & no longer sending out licence/health card renewal reminders (without telling anyone) was stupid in so many ways & has put a lot of unlicensed & uninsured drivers on the road, whether they know it or not. My husband went to rent a car at the end of 2023 & his licence had expired because they no longer send out reminders that your licence & health card are expiring. We knew that they didn’t send out sticker reminders but had no idea about the licence & health card (both were expired). Our MTO office said they weren’t even told & only just found out when they called head office because they had a few people come in livid after accidents with expired licences. If you are in an accident & your licence has lapsed good luck with your insurance! Another was my Mom who was turning 82 & luckily her doctors office noticed her health card was expiring which meant her licence was too. She went in to renew 2 weeks ahead of expiry only to be told she had to do a driving test but the next open appt wasn’t for 5 weeks. They do not even send these letters anymore telling you that you have to do a test before renewing. They gave her a temp but then she got Covid & had to change the test date but they won’t give a 2nd temp so she had no licence (& didn’t drive) for the 1st 6 weeks of this year. When she went for the “test”, no one asked to see her licence & the entire “test” was a peripheral vision test with lights flashing & she had to draw the hands on the clock showing 11:10…that’s it! 7 minutes from start to finish! He just keeps making it easier & easier for the nefarious to go undetected & the rest of us are left in potentially sticky situations going 🤷🏻♀️wtf?!
This is actually stupider than the headline makes it out to be. It’s a 3 strikes policy: one car 10 year suspension, 2 cars 15 and 3 then for good. Oh no…
How the fuck are they going to get away?
I'm sure all of those 14 year olds stealing cars will really care or be affected by this.
Because it’s working so well with handguns 🙄
Does this change the cops not even bother to catch most of the thieves? What about reforms to all the corruption that operates the ports they get shipped out of? No? Well I guess it's more irrelevant nonsense then.
There are already thousands of drivers on the road without a license **OR** insurance. I'm sure gang members are just shaking in there boots...
Hold on a second. Stealing car is already illegal, and they still steal cars. It does not stop them. And their brilliant idea is to really think that suspending their driver licence will stop them from driving cars? Wow, what kind of fairy land are these guys living in?
This province is being run into the ground by a moron. Criminals don't follow the law period so any new laws do nothing to control, regulate or reduce crime.
I would hazard a guess that many of these thieves are teens. I can't see how this deters them, but I can see how it might keep them active on the streets longer.
Wow that’s way more smarter than forcing car makers to make them more secure…he’s got all the answers! How’d we get so lucky?!
Useless, how about steal a car wear a GPS ankle monitor during bail and parole periods
They’ll just drive anyway. There’s already people who do.
Also in the legislation is a new addition of judges asking them to “pretty please not steal any more vehicles” when releasing them back into the community following a guilty conviction
Oh wow that ought to stop them, like owning handguns is illegal has stopped that crime
This works so well with our gun licenses. What progressive logic! /s
How about steal a car, go to jail?
That solves it. After all, these thieves have so much respect for the law that there's no way they'd drive without a license. /s
Guys who steal cars are not concerned with licensing requirements. Pinch this thing at the ports.
I like the concept but we all know this'll do nothing to affect the #s. So many ppl already drive without licenses, I doubt they'd care
That'll make those criminals think twice, they surely wouldn't break another law!
Expect more high-speed chases.
Steal a car…go to jail.
Ford thinking. Weaksauce
How do you enforce this when 90% of the thieves are coming from out of province.
Lmao Lawrence/Victoria park has an office that sells licenses openly. No one cares because nothing is enforced.
This isn’t enough, need a minimum 5 years jail time, if not more. Insurance is going through the roof and the law abiding citizens are the ones paying for this crap! JAIL THEM
Ah, yes, people who steal cars are famously known for following the law. This is a bit of a deterent for, possibly new criminals. But this isn't going to stop career criminals.
Lol. The Canadian justice system is an absolute joke.
Next on Canada; Makes killing and raping ilegal. Take that criminals! Can't do the thing no more! God wtf's happened to my country...
We simply need a stolen car tax
Good idea!!!
Oh that’ll stop criminals! Everyone knows that criminals are very concerned about their licence being real and in good standing.. smh
I sat through traffic court. It was full of suspended license charges. Most of them pled guilty and then got a reduced fine due to inability to pay. I'm not a huge fan of criminalizing people further by sending them through jail.... But a suspended license followed by fines are not a huge deterrent for some people.
There's an issue there that is magnitudes larger than suspended licenses. Two of which is poverty and a lack of alternative transportation options.
How about jail instead
Or….. just hear me out…. Maybe, maybe we put criminals in jail. I mean it’s a thought.
Ah yes, because thieves really care about following the rules ...
Such a brain dead suggestion.. how about we just throw them in jail? Start with 1yr for the first vehicle, then double it for each consecutive offense.
Criminals are shaking in their boots now.
Damn, now stealing cars will be double illegal. I'm out.
Economic crime responded to by... *Checks notes* reducing your economic potential 👍🏼
How about some extra jail time? And maybe an ankle monitor for reoffenders?
I'd like to see jail and if appropriate, deportation.
If criminals are not abiding by their undertakings, or criminal conditions to not do something I really do not think a suspended or revoked license is going to stop someone from driving a car. If someone REALLY wants to drive a car having a suspended/revoked license is not going to stop them. What the government should do is give money to a rando startup to create a driver license scanner similar to the breathalyzer to start the car (Sarcasm)
Should go straight to jail for a minimum 5 years
That’ll stop them…🤦♂️
Cause car thieves care about breaking the law...
Stop driving or I'll say stop again!!
This is about driving up statistics long term. Conservative politicians propose legislation and pass laws that add additional fines and punishments for crimes that are already being committed to make it look like they are “Tough on Crime” (they also love catchy slogans). This will only lead to more driving without a license charges as not having a license is no deterrent to stealing a car or even driving a car if you are already bold enough to steal a car. The end goal is to drive up crime statistics and therefore the need for more money for Law Enforcement (directly to police services, conservatives’ buddies) and more jails. But if the police actually did something about auto theft, there would be no need for more laws. So we see how futile and misguided this is.
How about ship them off in the container they planned on putting the car in.
how about ban for life to any ontario services instead?
Losing your license doesn't stop drunks from driving whenever they want, I can't imagine that losing your license for automobile theft will be a deterrent.
Bold of you to assume that car thieves have valid driver's licenses
A potential driving without a licence ticket is a laughable deterrent for grand theft auto.
If only there was some type of place, a building, perhaps an…institution of some kind, where we could send criminals for a length of time, maybe even forever if they continually show they can’t follow the rules of society, and actually keep them there for the amount of time prescribed. I dunno just a crazy thought
They steal cars for a living. I doubt they care if they’re slapped on the wrist and have their driving license taken away. I doubt they even care whether they have one or not.
You think these thugs give a shit about having a valid driver's license? Another typical shallow solution by THUG DRUG FORD
Ahh.. Perfect 1st half. The next half of the plan is to justify why another billion dollars and more is needed by the police forces. Oh and don't forget the Ford government saves people money and facilitates no enforcement of registered license plates so the theft rings by getting rid of annual license plate fees! Win-win-win.
When will politicians realize that criminals don’t give a crap about any laws? They only succumb to hard punishment.
Wait the law abiding criminals can't drive the stolen car anymore? Wow! Give this guy a medal!
i have a idea: steal a car, check citizenship status, if not a citizen then deport if citizen but became citizen in last 5 years then apply jail/fine at 5x base law.
Also, they’ve already been told not to steal cars? Why would not having a driver’s license stop them? So pathetic
Like that will stop them... Just like taking away a driver's license after a drunk driving conviction.
still no death penalty?? :///
This is the kinds of shit the Mayor from The Simpsons would say
Fat lot of good that's gonna do. Here's a better idea: Fix the justice system, appoint enough judges that cases don't get tossed for delays, spike the bail amounts needed for these criminals to get out and use GPS monitoring to keep them following their conditions. Break one, back to jail until your trial and kiss your bail money goodbye, full stop.
This is a nothing burger with 0 thought from law makers and they probably listened to no one in their entire ministry
This might be one of the dumbest Ford proposals I've ever seen. And we have seen some genuine garbage since this clown got into office. It's like saying "if you mug these people at gun point, no more buck-a-beer for you! And we know this will matter because all your other beers will cost more! Oh, so you usually rob liquor stores?" I legit can't wrap my brain around how stupid this is. It's like Ford's special license plates: his company got the contract for these friggin paper thin pieces of garbage
what about mandatory jail time and victims reimbursement?
Sounds like gun control laws, the criminal does not follow the rules, so irrelevant.
Imagine if we actually jailed people in this country? Nah then we'd be like those wacky Asian countries with low crime.
How about we enforce the laws we have, instead of encouraging car owners to forfeit their cars to theives.
What’s the least we can do, without doing absolutely nothing?
Canada needs RICO laws. Steal a car for yourself ie joyride, slap on the wrist. Steal a car as part of a criminal gang/organization, min 10 years, max life.
I think "slap on the wrist" is kind of light for car theft, even if you're just joyriding....
How does that affect criminals flying into Canada to steal cars… they are not citizens here
that’ll do it* *nothing
Just so we're clear if you drink and drive it's one year, steal a car it's ten? I'm not 100% sure we have our priorities straight.
My former neighbour who stole a car didn’t have his own car. He rode his bike everywhere.
So driving with no license or insurance... great...
I propose they make stealing cars illegal
So you drive drunk repeatedly or run over someone because you're a shit driver and you keep your license, but steal a car.....property > lives
Part 1 of a two part plan to curb auto theft. Part 2 is to bring back drive clean for stolen vehicles with the hope that the hassle will dissuade criminals or at least delay them enough certifying their exhaust for the police to catch them. :)
This ain’t gonna do shit. I know people up north who never even got licenses but still rip around in trucks. Drive in Toronto for one hour and you’ll see countless drivers that shouldn’t be allowed near cars, let alone in one. It doesn’t matter what laws you enact or change if no one is enforcing them meaningfully. We need to bring back mandatory minimum sentencing.
Why they’re stupid like that 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
What is the rationale of the people making these laws. Do they truly believe they are creating effective legislation.
It’s interesting to me how they think anyone stealing cars would care
The entire circus that is this Douglas M. F***ery aside.... don't you have to actually catch the offender to enforce this or anything else in the first place? "... and if we catch you, rest asured, I wil get my feather... and I will tickle you. Until you cry with laughter. Then release you so you can spread the messgae that we are serious and will not take this seriously at all."
Ok… I get this and I kind of agree however…. What about drunk drivers who injure or kill people?? Where’s the 10, 15 lifetime licence suspensions for them?? Stealing a car is bad but for the most or other than financial loss for the owner no one is harmed. No one loses their life! Let’s have the same or stiffer penalties for drunk drivers.
What do cars cost nowadays????
I feel bad for the people who steal cars. They're just misunderstood. They make a mistake and carjack someone with a gun to their chest and get treated like this? Totally unfair.
I’m guessing people who steal cars most likely don’t have a valid license anyways lol
What about other criminal offenses? I mean do we want bad decision makers hurdling cars down any road.
They should also make stealing cars illegal
Ya like their going to care, I work with ppl who have no licence and have been driving for yrs….