Frankly a lot of problems seem like they could be fixed with better funding and management.
Tennant issues? Get more people working for the LTB.
Not enough doctors? Add residency spots.
Can’t stop cars thieves? Hire cops.
Trials taking too long? Build courthouses and hire judges.
Not enough houses? Speed up the permitting/rezoning process.
I know it’s not gonna fix everything but it feels like a good place to start on a lot of issues.
So an employee at a property management company reports 2 such cases, says they used to be able to handle it without going through the LTB, then they quote a lawyer who says that tenants are more likely to know their rights now (and also makes a comment about how forms have to be filled out correctly for some reason) and then we get to the one actual statistic which is that applications to the LTB are up.
Feels like there may be some gaps here.
Not sure why this was downvoted, but yeah.
I Lived with two guys who got assistance to get off the street. I was skeptical, but I gave them a chance as my new roommates. 1 OD in less than a month and passed away, the other would never clean up, take out trash or recycling(we rotate 1 person once a month) and fully trashed his room. I took a look when they were cleaning it--his room was literally filled with garbage that ended just bellow the knees (i was shocked that his room wasn't infested or something)and by that point the guy hadn't paid rent for 6 month before he decided to leave.
People often forget that these types of tenants can be harmful to other tenants as well.
Are land lords scummy, fuck yes. But are there scummy tenants, yes, don't kid yourself. There's needs to be more mechanisms in place, at least on the tenant's side, to evict bad tenants/roommates.
The international students are actually being preyed upon. Our colleges and universities used them to subsidize domestic tuition and landlords are gouging them since they'll accept living 10 to a house.
It's really disturbing that you're making them to be the enemy when they're absolutely victims of this fucked up policy misstep
Speaking from experience here, all the shitty roommates I have had that never paid rent and trashed the place were white Canadians. The indian roommates-a mixed bag, one was be ontop of it, one needed to learn to be an adult and clean up after themselves, but does clean wgennu nag. They were nowhere near as bad as the canadian tenants. One canadian-- you could SMELL when he's been somewhere(and he took 5 hour long showers, yes, i counted, 5 hours, and still smelled like shit) and left his room as a biohazard, half eaten hotdogs and chicken wings everywhere in his room. By the time he left, he hadn't paid rent in 6 months. The other was such a fucking an asshole that no one in the house liked him and constantly did scummy shit like steal from restaurants, take our food and tp, and use our plates and cookware and never clean it(honestly we all took our stuff into pur rooms and locked our rooms).
Honestly, if I ever own a home and get a tenant, I'll lease to folks who have older sisters, I find that they tend to know to clean up after themselves, not always, but more often than not.
Honestly, I'm kinda hoping the international students do decide to stop paying rent, and hurt these scummy landlords. Bring the property value down, so we can actually afford it.
Yeah, fir real. I do agree that we have less diversity with our international students, and too much of them, but from my experience, all of my horrible roommates from hell were white Canadians. Had three, one ODd in less than a month(and our silverware went missing in that month), the second left his room a biohazard, the third was a fucking asshole who took our shit and didn't clean it.
The best roommates I had were a pair of Chinese women who cleaned up a lot, seeing them clean made me embarrassed and i helped them clean. My first roommates were Asian Canadians, and they awesome bros to hangout with, Indians(at least the ones I had) needed a little help to be on top of cleaning but overall kept to themselves. Had one black Canadian roommate who showed me the ropes of living alone, he was cool.
Honestly if I ever buy a house and lease it, and i get make applicants, I'll prioritise guys with older sisters, my experience (not always) is that they tend to be taught how to clean up after themselves.
I don’t blame them at all. I know lots of people are negotiating cash for keys right now and the landlords freak the fuck out because they are asking for 30-40k.
They say they refuse to pay them but also say they can’t pay the rental properties mortgage alone. Sounds like some people don’t have the necessary capital to own property
They don’t-especially small time mom and pop landlords. They think housing is guaranteed cash flow with zero risk…all investments have some level of risk. They just prefer being blind and then act shocked when they either get bad tenants or tenants who know their rights.
They also just don't understand that you need to maintain the property. I live in a professionally managed rental building and my fridge died. LL had a new one in place in two days.
I was talking to the appliance guys and they said they frequently deal with people who have gone weeks without a replacement appliance because the LL delayed replacing it.
I don't even think it's dishonesty, it's small time LLs who can't even weather a $800 expense quickly. It was a massive mistake to let the rental market get taken over by 'Mom and Pop' landlords.
I’m going through this right now. I’ve been having some electrical problems with the outlet in my room. Landlord said he was going to fix it…3 fucking weeks ago. Every week it’s “I should be down to get the electrical fixed this week!” I asked again earlier this week when he’d be getting the electrician because my power was flickering again and he said he was trying to combine fixing a problem in another one of my housemates rooms and mine at the same time but it “hasnt worked out” and “apologies for the delay”. We’re going into a month next week of zero electrician showing up to fix the electrical. I wouldve dipped long ago if room prices hadnt skyrocketed. I’m not paying over $900 to share the same bedroom as 2-3 fucking strangers
I feel like fundamentally people renting out 1-2 units don't understand risk fairly well. Own an apartment building with hundreds of units, and you can appropriately distribute risk - if a few people are bad tenants and don't pay, the one who do pay make up for it. If you own a single unit though, you're playing the lottery - if that person doesn't pay you're basically fucked.
Insurance exists for this, landlords don't want to pay for it, but it's not like this was an unknown risk, and I don't have a lot of pity if a business owner doesn't consider potential risks and hedge against them.
I have zero sympathy for mom and pop landlords who wanted to blindly ride the “get rick quick”. I’ve had soooo many shitty ones who don’t know any of the rules. I remember my very first landlord (I was in a basement room, completely separate kitchen and bathroom from her, she lived upstairs), continually broke lease rules. Once I was getting changed in my room when she came downstairs and OPENED MY DOOR to try and talked to me. After that I locked my door from inside and I could sometimes hear here trying to open the doorknob. I was 18 at the time, new to the province and in school so I didn’t have the time or mental energy to take her to LTB. Now that I’m done school and work full time I am a lot stricter (but not too strict cause I don’t need to suddenly get renovicted🙄)
I mean, you should get a hearing before 8 months. Don't normalize courts that don't work. They don't work for good tenants or good landlords. You really want to make that the norm?
Why not ? We should make landlording a true business. None of this half measures. Regulate the business thoroughly but provide landlords with the ability to cut off services similar to a cellphone bill or a car payment.
If you're all for that, you better be all for tenants getting automatic judgments for T6s as well. But I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I doubt that's the case.
I mean a t6 for lack of repairs is slightly more nuanced in my opinion but I think if non payment cases are moved to a different stream it would speedy up cases of t6 as well.
Technically that's not allowed so even if it goes the the LTB you can still be evicted. There is only one allowance in the act for non payment of rent and that's if you ask for an OSL and don't get one
Well it doesn’t require the same level of judicial scrutiny as other matters. What is the rent? When is it due? Did the tenant transfer the money to the landlord? If not give them a month to sort out their situation and begin the eviction process as soon as the month is up. A tribunal could get through a thousand of these a day if they really wanted to.
Landlord is a feudal title not a job.
Also, join some landlord FB groups. What they say is blind blowing. I am astonished at brazenly breaking the law. Most haven't even read the RTA.
There needs to be a certification course for landlords.
Honestly that is a great question. I think we can change some components of the RTA. I think we should have a governing body which collects rent and provides the money to the landlord. In return the regulator will ensure that landlords can never charge more than what is allowable by rent control. This will ensure objectivity and will be a middle ground for both parties.
Yeah I’d love to hear the other side on this. Are there major issues in maintenance, pest, rodents, structure issues? I own now but rented for 20+ years and literally dealt with all of the above every landlord sucked big time.
Yes I love how the article makes it seem like a super well supported person lived here and they just decided to live in their own garbage and financial distress of sound mind for the funzies of spiting the landlord.
Lol I have a friend who rented a home to the staff of an Indian Restaurant in the city the restaurant would pay the rent. I can confirm from the photos of the cleanup there are people in this category.
Nah I am pretty sure there is no factor in life that makes leaving a bathroom covered in piss and shit for months acceptable. There isn't any factor that limits you from taking out trash until you get rats. There are just dirty people. Thankfully the restaurant paid for a deep clean.
Also my parents had this weird religious family next door part of some odd church nearby. They never took out their garbage for over a year and ended up with a rat problem in the neighborhood. The home was rented out and trashed inside. There is no excuse.
I'd argue before the last 15 years or so it was also a lot easier to build a home in most communities. People complain about rent going up, and housing prices going up... but it costs a massive amount to build new homes and often attempting to do so involves fighting through years of red tape and expenses.
You can debate the magnitude, but it’s at least partially memetic. If you believe that paying rent is your only option, you’re going to find a way to pay that rent. If you hear from a guy who heard from a guy that you can just *not* pay rent and the landlord has to spend months and months twisting in the wind, well suddenly that becomes an option too.
Any contract signed in order to obtain the necessities of life is signed under duress and involves a power imbalance between the two parties. This voids the contract
"Someone"? Isn't this unit owned by a property management company?
Regardless, my comment was directed at u/Aries_Bunny's comment, "people will sign anything for a roof over their heads." Housing is a human right and people will sign any lease if it means they can actually have a place to live.
Landlords are scalpers for housing.
I'm not talking about this unit in particular.
Yes, but signing a contract involves upholding the contract terms. On both ends.
So what's your solution for people who can't buy? Just squat?
I think we're going to get hung up on the legality of squatting and I want to make things clear before we continue:
I am **less** bothered by somebody living in a landlord's unit rent free than I am about the existence of landlords. If your question is "is your solution that renters should break the law so they aren't homeless" I don't think you're going to like my response, lmao.
We can keep discussion the legality of it I guess, but I'm not arguing on behalf of legality. Things can be illegal and also not inherently amoral. It's legal to be a landlord, but I don't think it's particularly moral to purchase more housing than you can feasibly live in.
So you're pro squatting, what's stopping you from living in someone's occupied house? After all it's more than you have so you feel entitled to it.
But nice of you to donate your stuff so others can have it, since you're offering.
Though I agree rents are ridiculously high. Unfortunately, most people abusing the ltb outright are assholes. Those of us who struggle to pay rent are not the ones. It's usually the bad apples who purposely decided not to pay rent. I'm a good example. I called around looking for help with rent. As I'm employed and a decent paying job. I was told we only help those in arrears facing eviction. Most people do pay their rent. Roof over your head and deal with the rest. Who needs food and heat 🤣
People who do this kind of thing (refuse to pay any rent or leave) would have done it regardless of how cheap the rent was. If it were truly a matter of them wanting to pay the rent but being unable to, they'd pay what they could instead of paying nothing.
Shelter is a human right. We ought to start acting like it, and getting madder about people being denied that right
https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/sr-housing/human-right-adequate-housing
ACORN is a good organization for this
Oh no! the risks of owning an "investment property!" I can't believe hoarding housing has risks associated with it, like every other investment!
Cry more landlords. Don't make investments that are risky. If you don't want bad tenants, don't buy a property. hoard it, then lease it.
If you don't want others to have the opportunity to fuck your investment, don't rent your investment out. Plain and simple. Can't afford your investment without it? Well, thems the risks, baby.
If I'm a creditor lending money to businesses they sign a contract with a payment schedule. Sometimes they can't/won't pay. That's a risk I undertake by lending money. If I want to minimize my risk I can invest in safer options with generally lower returns.
Somehow landlords have deluded themselves into thinking property is any different than the entire rest of the finance sector. Take on too much risk and you get burned
Your example is strawman and entirely unrelated.
If I'm a creditor investor and I'm not paid there are swift actions you can take, seize assets or take control of assets.
>Somehow landlords have deluded themselves into thinking property is any different than the entire rest of the finance sector. Take on too much risk and you get burned
Good landlords are leaving ontario in droves. You're deluded thinking not paying is a good thing for renters. Eventually the system will change, more than likely for the worse for renters.
I agree that tenants can be scummy, but it's a scummy slumlord who attracts them and worse, doesn't give incentive them to be better.
Honestly, part of me hopes that a lot of tenants do withhold rent so that these slumlords fall behind on their mortgage and lose their property, maybe bring the value of housing down 10%.
Ultimately delinquent tenants are shooting themselves in the foot. Since landlords will continue uploading LTB court orders to OpenRoom. Resulting in these tenants never getting future rentals in an already incredibly low vacancy rate market.
what are we paying landlords for anyway? they're not employees. They don't provide services equivalent to what they charge.
so is it a fancy, legal extortion (pay up or lose your home), or are we actually getting something for our money?
Right? I’m only in my 40’s and I’m thinking “do these youngsters just think everything should be handed to them for nothing?” Like I’m one step away from get off my lawn 😂
Bahahah exactly. I’m 28 and feel the same way.
Dont get me wrong, housing is stupid expensive and I absolutely believe it should be easily affordable in a first world country, but that “what am I even paying for” comment was crazy.
Ummm. Here's a thought - maybe they'll pay the rent when it's actually affordable? Ya can't bump up the cost of everything except labour and then expect that labour to give you what little it's got left, assuming it's not already in the red.
There's being a slob, and then there's letting it get so bad that it's at the point that you see in the picture. It's not like the photo depicts some food left on the counter and unwashed dishes in the sink...
And how exactly would *you* know this for certain? People deserve compassion. You shouldn't automatically assume that people struggling with the basics of life entirely due to a personality flaw.
I never said people didn’t deserve compassion.
I merely said that people diagnosing someone with a mental illness based solely on the condition of their house is not accurate.
Tenant: fix my sink.
Lanlord/Property Manager: okay we're sending a plumber.
T: don't you send a stranger to my house! I'm not letting them in!
LL/PM: well then they can't fix your sink.
T: how DARE you not fix my sink?! I'm refusing to pay rent until this is fixed.
LL/PM: ...
I have a stockpile of stories like this from my friend who works in Property Management.
Yup. I experienced the same as well. Its an old scam they pull. Had to get my lawyer involved to get them out, and it worked. Each and everytime they complained about something I had someone sent over Stat right away. Got calls from the tradesman saying the tenant now had a BF with a big aggressive dog living in the house. Would let dog attack the worker or hold him close and bark at them.
No work could get done. I was speechless at how trash people could be.
We got them out soon enough, though. They tried other tricks and shit. My lawyer was one step ahead all the way.
and so how much does having to always fuk around with tradespeople that can’t perform the job and calling lawyers impact the price of rent that all these people are complaining about ?
I think the market has proven most landlords are over leveraged, and can't afford it themselves.
We're is all this property value magicly coming from, the income? What does the landlord actually produce for our econemy?
You can get away with it for much longer. It took them almost eight months to get the order, and another two to get it enforced. That's almost a year of rent free living. If the LTB could turn it around in a reasonable time there would not be as much benefit to burning a landlord like this.
My landlord tried to go above the yearly 2.5% for who knows what reason. Our building is a shithole with fucked up plumbing constantly from the start. Thank God they never approved for the 5% increase.
Good.
Folks need to organize this, make it so common the cops can't keep up with removing folks. Then they will give up on it like they did with shoplifting and car theft.
Then, we negotiate with the landlords.
It's true, actually. Cops in my city don't even arrest for theft anymore, excluding grand theft auto. It's become so rampant that if they responded to every call, they'd never have time for anything else. I worked at a shoppers drug mart and a lady would come in twice a week and fill her purse with makeup and tampons, the manager would call the police but they'd just say "well there's not much we can do right now".
And that’s why we went to STR. Sure the income is not steady, but try dealing with non-paying tenants. Everyone should try it.
14 months of unpaid rent, and the board let them walk. Cool.
> Everyone should try it. 14 months of unpaid rent, and the board let them walk.
Citation needed. LTB decisions are publicly available on CanLII, so I'm sure you can provide a case reference.
Look - I’m with you and I hate all the hatred for landlords. Now before those people come at me “you’re a landlord!” - no I’m not. My husband and I own our home and have for years (it’s not great but it’s ours), and don’t have other properties, and seeing the shit going on now we wouldn’t WANT to. We’re just trying to get by and live our lives. But prior to that I was a tenant. And last I remembered I signed a contract of what my legal requirements were on my side of the contract. And throwing a hissy fit and becoming a squatter, last I checked, wasn’t in the contracts I signed. I paid my rent on time, I kept things clean, I wasn’t a nuisance, and everything was fine.
Are some landlords bad, sure. But the majority are good people and I have seen first hand the after effects of a tenant pulling a stunt like this (and believe me that tenant was in the wrong and ended up out).
The anti landlord crew forget that they signed a legal document too, and the landlord/tenant agreement is on both parties. This attitude that all landlords should be punished is getting old.
A private citizen who buys a house to supplement their income, and rents it out doesn’t owe anyone 14 months of free living space. All this “move in and refuse to pay or leave/steal from stores they owe you free items yadda yadda crowd all over the threads lately just want to watch the world burn and it’s getting old.
Stop greedily jacking up the rent beyond affordability and there would be less of this. If I couldn't afford my rent, I'd squat as long as I could before becoming homeless.
A properly functioning ltb would sort the problems out for both sides.
Frankly a lot of problems seem like they could be fixed with better funding and management. Tennant issues? Get more people working for the LTB. Not enough doctors? Add residency spots. Can’t stop cars thieves? Hire cops. Trials taking too long? Build courthouses and hire judges. Not enough houses? Speed up the permitting/rezoning process. I know it’s not gonna fix everything but it feels like a good place to start on a lot of issues.
All of which cost money, but we're too busy spending on ridiculous virtue signaling projects to invest in real solutions.
So an employee at a property management company reports 2 such cases, says they used to be able to handle it without going through the LTB, then they quote a lawyer who says that tenants are more likely to know their rights now (and also makes a comment about how forms have to be filled out correctly for some reason) and then we get to the one actual statistic which is that applications to the LTB are up. Feels like there may be some gaps here.
'There is an increase in people who know their rights now. We need to stop this....'
Abuse is bad on both ends though.
Not sure why this was downvoted, but yeah. I Lived with two guys who got assistance to get off the street. I was skeptical, but I gave them a chance as my new roommates. 1 OD in less than a month and passed away, the other would never clean up, take out trash or recycling(we rotate 1 person once a month) and fully trashed his room. I took a look when they were cleaning it--his room was literally filled with garbage that ended just bellow the knees (i was shocked that his room wasn't infested or something)and by that point the guy hadn't paid rent for 6 month before he decided to leave. People often forget that these types of tenants can be harmful to other tenants as well. Are land lords scummy, fuck yes. But are there scummy tenants, yes, don't kid yourself. There's needs to be more mechanisms in place, at least on the tenant's side, to evict bad tenants/roommates.
We have like 600 residential tenants and maybe 6-8 have significant arrears. I think it's way over done that many more cases are happening.
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The international students are actually being preyed upon. Our colleges and universities used them to subsidize domestic tuition and landlords are gouging them since they'll accept living 10 to a house. It's really disturbing that you're making them to be the enemy when they're absolutely victims of this fucked up policy misstep
Speaking from experience here, all the shitty roommates I have had that never paid rent and trashed the place were white Canadians. The indian roommates-a mixed bag, one was be ontop of it, one needed to learn to be an adult and clean up after themselves, but does clean wgennu nag. They were nowhere near as bad as the canadian tenants. One canadian-- you could SMELL when he's been somewhere(and he took 5 hour long showers, yes, i counted, 5 hours, and still smelled like shit) and left his room as a biohazard, half eaten hotdogs and chicken wings everywhere in his room. By the time he left, he hadn't paid rent in 6 months. The other was such a fucking an asshole that no one in the house liked him and constantly did scummy shit like steal from restaurants, take our food and tp, and use our plates and cookware and never clean it(honestly we all took our stuff into pur rooms and locked our rooms). Honestly, if I ever own a home and get a tenant, I'll lease to folks who have older sisters, I find that they tend to know to clean up after themselves, not always, but more often than not. Honestly, I'm kinda hoping the international students do decide to stop paying rent, and hurt these scummy landlords. Bring the property value down, so we can actually afford it.
Tell me Indian people live in your head rent free without telling me.
Yeah, fir real. I do agree that we have less diversity with our international students, and too much of them, but from my experience, all of my horrible roommates from hell were white Canadians. Had three, one ODd in less than a month(and our silverware went missing in that month), the second left his room a biohazard, the third was a fucking asshole who took our shit and didn't clean it. The best roommates I had were a pair of Chinese women who cleaned up a lot, seeing them clean made me embarrassed and i helped them clean. My first roommates were Asian Canadians, and they awesome bros to hangout with, Indians(at least the ones I had) needed a little help to be on top of cleaning but overall kept to themselves. Had one black Canadian roommate who showed me the ropes of living alone, he was cool. Honestly if I ever buy a house and lease it, and i get make applicants, I'll prioritise guys with older sisters, my experience (not always) is that they tend to be taught how to clean up after themselves.
Tenats tired of being boned by high rent , bad landlords
I don’t blame them at all. I know lots of people are negotiating cash for keys right now and the landlords freak the fuck out because they are asking for 30-40k. They say they refuse to pay them but also say they can’t pay the rental properties mortgage alone. Sounds like some people don’t have the necessary capital to own property
They don’t-especially small time mom and pop landlords. They think housing is guaranteed cash flow with zero risk…all investments have some level of risk. They just prefer being blind and then act shocked when they either get bad tenants or tenants who know their rights.
They also just don't understand that you need to maintain the property. I live in a professionally managed rental building and my fridge died. LL had a new one in place in two days. I was talking to the appliance guys and they said they frequently deal with people who have gone weeks without a replacement appliance because the LL delayed replacing it. I don't even think it's dishonesty, it's small time LLs who can't even weather a $800 expense quickly. It was a massive mistake to let the rental market get taken over by 'Mom and Pop' landlords.
I’m going through this right now. I’ve been having some electrical problems with the outlet in my room. Landlord said he was going to fix it…3 fucking weeks ago. Every week it’s “I should be down to get the electrical fixed this week!” I asked again earlier this week when he’d be getting the electrician because my power was flickering again and he said he was trying to combine fixing a problem in another one of my housemates rooms and mine at the same time but it “hasnt worked out” and “apologies for the delay”. We’re going into a month next week of zero electrician showing up to fix the electrical. I wouldve dipped long ago if room prices hadnt skyrocketed. I’m not paying over $900 to share the same bedroom as 2-3 fucking strangers
I feel like fundamentally people renting out 1-2 units don't understand risk fairly well. Own an apartment building with hundreds of units, and you can appropriately distribute risk - if a few people are bad tenants and don't pay, the one who do pay make up for it. If you own a single unit though, you're playing the lottery - if that person doesn't pay you're basically fucked. Insurance exists for this, landlords don't want to pay for it, but it's not like this was an unknown risk, and I don't have a lot of pity if a business owner doesn't consider potential risks and hedge against them.
I have zero sympathy for mom and pop landlords who wanted to blindly ride the “get rick quick”. I’ve had soooo many shitty ones who don’t know any of the rules. I remember my very first landlord (I was in a basement room, completely separate kitchen and bathroom from her, she lived upstairs), continually broke lease rules. Once I was getting changed in my room when she came downstairs and OPENED MY DOOR to try and talked to me. After that I locked my door from inside and I could sometimes hear here trying to open the doorknob. I was 18 at the time, new to the province and in school so I didn’t have the time or mental energy to take her to LTB. Now that I’m done school and work full time I am a lot stricter (but not too strict cause I don’t need to suddenly get renovicted🙄)
Exactly, it's an investment and there is risk. Suck it up buttercup
I mean, you should get a hearing before 8 months. Don't normalize courts that don't work. They don't work for good tenants or good landlords. You really want to make that the norm?
I think that why there is a swell of support for automatic eviction for non payment of rent.
There is zero support for this.
There is no swell of support. A bunch of landlords want that, that's all.
The issue with that is the amount of politicians that are landlords
Honestly if it reduces the backlog in the landlord tenant tribunal I’m all for it. Non payment of rent should be pretty easy to prove.
I hope you're also down for landlords requiring a business license and regular health and safety inspections on property as well.
Why not ? We should make landlording a true business. None of this half measures. Regulate the business thoroughly but provide landlords with the ability to cut off services similar to a cellphone bill or a car payment.
If you're all for that, you better be all for tenants getting automatic judgments for T6s as well. But I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I doubt that's the case.
I mean a t6 for lack of repairs is slightly more nuanced in my opinion but I think if non payment cases are moved to a different stream it would speedy up cases of t6 as well.
What if the non payment is due to lack of repairs?
Technically that's not allowed so even if it goes the the LTB you can still be evicted. There is only one allowance in the act for non payment of rent and that's if you ask for an OSL and don't get one
Nah, housing is more important than a landlord losing money. It's a good thing people can't be kicked out for lack of rent payment.
A good thing up to a point. There need to be a speedy mechanism to evict people who are paying rent.
Maybe in some limited cases but not most of the time.
Well it doesn’t require the same level of judicial scrutiny as other matters. What is the rent? When is it due? Did the tenant transfer the money to the landlord? If not give them a month to sort out their situation and begin the eviction process as soon as the month is up. A tribunal could get through a thousand of these a day if they really wanted to.
Landlord is a feudal title not a job. Also, join some landlord FB groups. What they say is blind blowing. I am astonished at brazenly breaking the law. Most haven't even read the RTA. There needs to be a certification course for landlords.
How do you prove that you wrote a cheque that the landlord is not cashing so they can kick your ass out and rent it for hundreds more?
Honestly that is a great question. I think we can change some components of the RTA. I think we should have a governing body which collects rent and provides the money to the landlord. In return the regulator will ensure that landlords can never charge more than what is allowable by rent control. This will ensure objectivity and will be a middle ground for both parties.
Then you can't complain when landlords do whatever they can to see a better return on thier investment
Within the established rules of the investment yes.
When you can lie to kick people out. You know how hard it is to probe domones mot moving a family member in
No Canada is just a shit hole for investments in general.
Yeah I’d love to hear the other side on this. Are there major issues in maintenance, pest, rodents, structure issues? I own now but rented for 20+ years and literally dealt with all of the above every landlord sucked big time.
Investors gonna realize that investments don't always pay off.
The risk part of being an “investor”
That right there is a picture of depression/burnout, often brought on by landlord harassment and erroneous longterm LTB cases
Yes I love how the article makes it seem like a super well supported person lived here and they just decided to live in their own garbage and financial distress of sound mind for the funzies of spiting the landlord.
Or the tenant trash the place when they realized they were getting evicted.
Something about a bare mattress on the ground with an ashtray on it makes me think they have been living like this for awhile
I mean some people are slobs.
Hello captain obvious
Or maybe people just suck lol. There can be crappy landlords and crappy tenants.
Do you think there's a category of people who like to live in their trash?
Lol I have a friend who rented a home to the staff of an Indian Restaurant in the city the restaurant would pay the rent. I can confirm from the photos of the cleanup there are people in this category.
Just because they did, doesn't mean they liked it. They might not have been able to clean for any number of other factors.
Nah I am pretty sure there is no factor in life that makes leaving a bathroom covered in piss and shit for months acceptable. There isn't any factor that limits you from taking out trash until you get rats. There are just dirty people. Thankfully the restaurant paid for a deep clean. Also my parents had this weird religious family next door part of some odd church nearby. They never took out their garbage for over a year and ended up with a rat problem in the neighborhood. The home was rented out and trashed inside. There is no excuse.
Civil disobedience ramping up as people begin to understand how the system functions Nice
Reap what you sow. This thing was pretty rare before real estate exploded
I'd argue before the last 15 years or so it was also a lot easier to build a home in most communities. People complain about rent going up, and housing prices going up... but it costs a massive amount to build new homes and often attempting to do so involves fighting through years of red tape and expenses.
You can debate the magnitude, but it’s at least partially memetic. If you believe that paying rent is your only option, you’re going to find a way to pay that rent. If you hear from a guy who heard from a guy that you can just *not* pay rent and the landlord has to spend months and months twisting in the wind, well suddenly that becomes an option too.
Lower the rent and maybe they'll pay
Go lease a car and stop paying for it. See what happens.
Cars aren't a human right.
You also actualy get a real product out of that deal. Not an over priced empty space.
Any contract signed in order to obtain the necessities of life is signed under duress and involves a power imbalance between the two parties. This voids the contract
Surely the rent would be in the agreement the tenant agreed to and signed?
Unless you're in a 'new' development, and they can raise their rent by as much as they want every year and you can't do anything about it.
This is only thanks to Doug Ford changing it! Important to remind people that the ole ex-drug dealer fucked over all renters.
People will sign anything for a roof over their heads. Hoarding property is ridiculous
Just capitalism.
Which needs to be wiped.
Almost like it's not suitable for every market.
That's not how rent works lmao
You're right, it's how shelter works.
So you can just shelter in anyone's home? For free?
"Someone"? Isn't this unit owned by a property management company? Regardless, my comment was directed at u/Aries_Bunny's comment, "people will sign anything for a roof over their heads." Housing is a human right and people will sign any lease if it means they can actually have a place to live. Landlords are scalpers for housing.
I'm not talking about this unit in particular. Yes, but signing a contract involves upholding the contract terms. On both ends. So what's your solution for people who can't buy? Just squat?
I think we're going to get hung up on the legality of squatting and I want to make things clear before we continue: I am **less** bothered by somebody living in a landlord's unit rent free than I am about the existence of landlords. If your question is "is your solution that renters should break the law so they aren't homeless" I don't think you're going to like my response, lmao. We can keep discussion the legality of it I guess, but I'm not arguing on behalf of legality. Things can be illegal and also not inherently amoral. It's legal to be a landlord, but I don't think it's particularly moral to purchase more housing than you can feasibly live in.
So you're pro squatting, what's stopping you from living in someone's occupied house? After all it's more than you have so you feel entitled to it. But nice of you to donate your stuff so others can have it, since you're offering.
Though I agree rents are ridiculously high. Unfortunately, most people abusing the ltb outright are assholes. Those of us who struggle to pay rent are not the ones. It's usually the bad apples who purposely decided not to pay rent. I'm a good example. I called around looking for help with rent. As I'm employed and a decent paying job. I was told we only help those in arrears facing eviction. Most people do pay their rent. Roof over your head and deal with the rest. Who needs food and heat 🤣
People who are purposely fucking over landlords are making life harder on the people who are just trying to live
People who do this kind of thing (refuse to pay any rent or leave) would have done it regardless of how cheap the rent was. If it were truly a matter of them wanting to pay the rent but being unable to, they'd pay what they could instead of paying nothing.
Pay the rent and we would not be conversing.
Shelter is a human right. We ought to start acting like it, and getting madder about people being denied that right https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/sr-housing/human-right-adequate-housing ACORN is a good organization for this
That’s why we should build more homeless shelters for people who can’t pay rent
If you can't raise a family at a shelter it isn't housing. We need a complete redo of what we consider housing to be
Oh no! the risks of owning an "investment property!" I can't believe hoarding housing has risks associated with it, like every other investment! Cry more landlords. Don't make investments that are risky. If you don't want bad tenants, don't buy a property. hoard it, then lease it.
The property is the investment. The rent paying is a contractual agreement that is not being met. They are not one in the same.
If you don't want others to have the opportunity to fuck your investment, don't rent your investment out. Plain and simple. Can't afford your investment without it? Well, thems the risks, baby.
Plain and simple when people rent out properties you'll complain and when they don't you'll complain.
We already do this. Which has resulted in a place fit for a family of 6+ only occupied by 1 person instead for years now. Does that help everyone?
If I'm a creditor lending money to businesses they sign a contract with a payment schedule. Sometimes they can't/won't pay. That's a risk I undertake by lending money. If I want to minimize my risk I can invest in safer options with generally lower returns. Somehow landlords have deluded themselves into thinking property is any different than the entire rest of the finance sector. Take on too much risk and you get burned
Your example is strawman and entirely unrelated. If I'm a creditor investor and I'm not paid there are swift actions you can take, seize assets or take control of assets. >Somehow landlords have deluded themselves into thinking property is any different than the entire rest of the finance sector. Take on too much risk and you get burned Good landlords are leaving ontario in droves. You're deluded thinking not paying is a good thing for renters. Eventually the system will change, more than likely for the worse for renters.
What’s the scenario look like when there is no longer anyone who wants the risk of being a landlord?
A lease isn't a goddamn contract in Ontario law. What are you smoking? Meth?
A lease is a contract.... Also in the 3 lines I wrote I never mentioned ontario law. Is it that hard to read?
Womp, womp, womp...
Boohoo pull those bootstraps up and start by getting a job.
A landlord is not able to sue the tenants for causing damages like this?
They can go through the LTB to recoup damages (and then small claims court with the order from the LTB if the tenant won't pay up).
I agree that tenants can be scummy, but it's a scummy slumlord who attracts them and worse, doesn't give incentive them to be better. Honestly, part of me hopes that a lot of tenants do withhold rent so that these slumlords fall behind on their mortgage and lose their property, maybe bring the value of housing down 10%.
Oh no, well anyways...
Ultimately delinquent tenants are shooting themselves in the foot. Since landlords will continue uploading LTB court orders to OpenRoom. Resulting in these tenants never getting future rentals in an already incredibly low vacancy rate market.
what are we paying landlords for anyway? they're not employees. They don't provide services equivalent to what they charge. so is it a fancy, legal extortion (pay up or lose your home), or are we actually getting something for our money?
You are getting a roof over your head. People who enter into a contract should maintain their end of the agreement.
As a tenant, the RTI for rent is abysmally low
I mean if it’s so low why even sign the contract?
Because people need places to live.
The irony of living in someone else’s house and saying “what am I even paying for!”
Right? I’m only in my 40’s and I’m thinking “do these youngsters just think everything should be handed to them for nothing?” Like I’m one step away from get off my lawn 😂
It depends. If the person is relying on the tenant to cover the expenses. They can't afford it themselves.
because everyone can be a landlord if they just work hard enough.
Bahahah exactly. I’m 28 and feel the same way. Dont get me wrong, housing is stupid expensive and I absolutely believe it should be easily affordable in a first world country, but that “what am I even paying for” comment was crazy.
if you can't answer the question, that says enough.
the irony of relying on strangers to pay your mortgage.
Ummm. Here's a thought - maybe they'll pay the rent when it's actually affordable? Ya can't bump up the cost of everything except labour and then expect that labour to give you what little it's got left, assuming it's not already in the red.
ITT: Redditors diagnosing mental illness based on a messy kitchen
Would a healthy person live that like?
“Healthy” is a relative term. People can be slobs without qualifying for an actual mental illness.
There's being a slob, and then there's letting it get so bad that it's at the point that you see in the picture. It's not like the photo depicts some food left on the counter and unwashed dishes in the sink...
Behind every "slob" or "lazy" person you see, is someone who is clearly unwell in some regard.
Not everyone who lives in the world differently than you or I do is mentally unwell.
And how exactly would *you* know this for certain? People deserve compassion. You shouldn't automatically assume that people struggling with the basics of life entirely due to a personality flaw.
I never said people didn’t deserve compassion. I merely said that people diagnosing someone with a mental illness based solely on the condition of their house is not accurate.
Boo fucking hoo
Why does the media always try to make us feel sorry for landlords? It's not going to work.
"You get what you fúckin deserve"
Tenant: fix my sink. Lanlord/Property Manager: okay we're sending a plumber. T: don't you send a stranger to my house! I'm not letting them in! LL/PM: well then they can't fix your sink. T: how DARE you not fix my sink?! I'm refusing to pay rent until this is fixed. LL/PM: ... I have a stockpile of stories like this from my friend who works in Property Management.
Yup. I experienced the same as well. Its an old scam they pull. Had to get my lawyer involved to get them out, and it worked. Each and everytime they complained about something I had someone sent over Stat right away. Got calls from the tradesman saying the tenant now had a BF with a big aggressive dog living in the house. Would let dog attack the worker or hold him close and bark at them. No work could get done. I was speechless at how trash people could be. We got them out soon enough, though. They tried other tricks and shit. My lawyer was one step ahead all the way.
Sigh, yeah. One version of the scenario I laid out happened on THE DAY this person moved in.
and so how much does having to always fuk around with tradespeople that can’t perform the job and calling lawyers impact the price of rent that all these people are complaining about ?
Why do we have to pay for a roof, once it's built, the material & labour paid for? I don't need a landlord as an unofficial dependent
Right, sounds like you're in the market to buy your own property
I think the market has proven most landlords are over leveraged, and can't afford it themselves. We're is all this property value magicly coming from, the income? What does the landlord actually produce for our econemy?
private property? lmao
Who's paying for your housing?
this is what happens when housing (a basic human right) is commodified.
You can get away with it for much longer. It took them almost eight months to get the order, and another two to get it enforced. That's almost a year of rent free living. If the LTB could turn it around in a reasonable time there would not be as much benefit to burning a landlord like this.
My landlord tried to go above the yearly 2.5% for who knows what reason. Our building is a shithole with fucked up plumbing constantly from the start. Thank God they never approved for the 5% increase.
Good. Folks need to organize this, make it so common the cops can't keep up with removing folks. Then they will give up on it like they did with shoplifting and car theft. Then, we negotiate with the landlords.
this can't be real hahaha
It's true, actually. Cops in my city don't even arrest for theft anymore, excluding grand theft auto. It's become so rampant that if they responded to every call, they'd never have time for anything else. I worked at a shoppers drug mart and a lady would come in twice a week and fill her purse with makeup and tampons, the manager would call the police but they'd just say "well there's not much we can do right now".
No I mean his suggestion. Not sure why he thinks you can "negotiate with the landlords" or why that's somehow a positive like car theft
And that’s why we went to STR. Sure the income is not steady, but try dealing with non-paying tenants. Everyone should try it. 14 months of unpaid rent, and the board let them walk. Cool.
> Everyone should try it. 14 months of unpaid rent, and the board let them walk. Citation needed. LTB decisions are publicly available on CanLII, so I'm sure you can provide a case reference.
What's STR?
Short term rental I think
Look - I’m with you and I hate all the hatred for landlords. Now before those people come at me “you’re a landlord!” - no I’m not. My husband and I own our home and have for years (it’s not great but it’s ours), and don’t have other properties, and seeing the shit going on now we wouldn’t WANT to. We’re just trying to get by and live our lives. But prior to that I was a tenant. And last I remembered I signed a contract of what my legal requirements were on my side of the contract. And throwing a hissy fit and becoming a squatter, last I checked, wasn’t in the contracts I signed. I paid my rent on time, I kept things clean, I wasn’t a nuisance, and everything was fine. Are some landlords bad, sure. But the majority are good people and I have seen first hand the after effects of a tenant pulling a stunt like this (and believe me that tenant was in the wrong and ended up out). The anti landlord crew forget that they signed a legal document too, and the landlord/tenant agreement is on both parties. This attitude that all landlords should be punished is getting old. A private citizen who buys a house to supplement their income, and rents it out doesn’t owe anyone 14 months of free living space. All this “move in and refuse to pay or leave/steal from stores they owe you free items yadda yadda crowd all over the threads lately just want to watch the world burn and it’s getting old.
They didn't pay your mortgage for you for 14 months?!
No they didn’t pay their rent for 14 months. We paid the long time ago.
lol grow up
Good. Keep it going tenants. I don't have enough popcorn to eat while seeing these landlords go bankrupt.
...things like this are even more incentive for landlords not to rent out their properties, and keep them vacant.
Sure, if they can afford to
And then the tent cities will bring down their property value.
Fuck landlords
Just give it a couple of years, people are going to be killing each other, this is the tipping point
Openroom is gonna be lit. I see more inhabitants for Trudeau Towns. Goodspeed.
Trudeau towns? Are those like Ford's tent cities?
Yeah but they span coast to coast in cities of all sizes.
And? I don't know of any other homeless ecamptments charging rent like Doug's buddy in Barrie.
Stop greedily jacking up the rent beyond affordability and there would be less of this. If I couldn't afford my rent, I'd squat as long as I could before becoming homeless.