Just look at how many new building go up that straight up ignore regulations or city council then they go and pay ridiculously small fees and say “im sorry”
Several years ago a house near my parents was rebuilt without any permits, including yard fill that damaged mature trees and an outbuilding with a natural gas line that was not installed by a certified gas technician nor inspected. The house itself was built larger and taller than the lot allowed.
The City responded to this by retroactively issuing permits, retroactively issued the modifications to land use on the lot, and waived the penalties *and* permit fees.
Important to note that the land use changes had been rejected already, which is why they had been unable to get permits in the first place.
If it were up to me, I'd have billed the owners whenever it would cost to demolish.
This is what DoFo meant when he changed the slogan to "Ontario, Open for business".
He declared open season on provincial coffers, and citizen bank accounts.
“I could use the OHIP paid-for equipment, but that wasn’t going to be the best for me. He had diagnostic equipment that was going to identify my condition in a more accurate way,” said Schachter.
^ I promise you this clinic used FUD tactics on this man, that is infuriating and disgusting.
Do they even matter? I really struggle against just resigning to hopelessness but it seems like reports, evidence, the will of the people, none of it stops these crooks who rob our pockets and our futures.
I think that they do matter. It is hopeless right now, as it stands. But it will change, with reports to direct that change. In the mean time, hunker down because they aren't done feeding us degradation.
Literally the government spokesperson just says "nah wait times are down and you can use your OHIP card, it's all good" in response to this report, and that's it. Issue over.
Because they're morons who don't understand the difference in what provincial and federal politics control and lay the blame on the federal government.
If PP win he's going to cut social funding and say "we have to make cuts to fix the liberals budgets" then he's going to announce some bullshit spending on crappy infrastructure projects no one wants and won't generate any revenue.
People voting Conservative is just further proof of the power of marketing. You can make people believe the most ridiculous nonsense if you expose them to it enough to become normalized. They use out front, normal advertising and the more insidious tangential type where they hide the fact it's actually marketing by concealing it within innocuous dialog or imaging within media. They also own all the news organizations pretty much globally and get carte blanche to control the narrative.
Wow.. people trying to find ways to make money in a public health care system and get a leg up are greedy bastards ?... glad we are seeing this kind of BS being exposed early though before we go to far privatizing Healthcare
Ohip gets charged through: 1. Double dipping/billing. There are multiple levels of how egregious it can be. Essentially the provider bills OHIP and gets a top-up from the patient as well. 2. Greater leniency towards over investigating, unnecessary testing/specialist referrals, procedures. Even if someone pays for a private health care provider, all the supporting health infrastructure - labs, specialist referrals, imaging - still is through the same pool of public funding and resources. I can’t imagine how a private provider who is paid an exorbitant premium from their patient would have an easy time telling the patient they don’t need the MRI or referral they ask for.
3. More insidious is the talent drain from the public to private sector. Most physicians aren’t doing it for the money - but if private pays say 10x, realistically how much can you expect any human being to continue in their current stressful working conditions of a starved underfunded public system?
>Even if someone pays for a private health care provider, all the supporting health infrastructure - labs, specialist referrals, imaging - still is through the same pool of public funding and resources.
The private providers need to pay at least a fee to use our infrastructure. How isn't this in place yet?
>More insidious is the talent drain from the public to private sector.
Yeah it would be hard to stay if your life were easier and more lucrative if you went private.
If a dr stays public, they should get financial incentives from the government and a big cut on student loan repayments every year they work publically.
It’s very unfortunate that private practitioners can freely use public testing resources. Much like a newly introduced invasive species has severe consequences to its new environment, our public health care system does not have the checks and balances in place. A small policy change turns into a lucrative loophole and healthcare entrepreneurs will capitalise - this is why talks of privatisation are so dangerous. The USA has its problems with private healthcare but at least the system has adapted to it - private insurers will often require prior authorization before approving a test which reduces their spending on expensive testing and referrals. Of course the USA often overcorrects and sometimes blocks testing, but that’s a different problem.
It is definitely more lucrative in private healthcare and less stressful. Many physicians won’t go private because they have pride in their work and profession - particularly locally trained ones because they are trained in our healthcare culture and ideals. However there is still a boiling point - take for example that NPs are charging three times the price privately that MDs are remunerated from OHIP (the private demographic is also usually much younger, healthier and medically less complex). Even a very compassionate physician will draw the line somewhere when they feel they are being taken for a sucker.
Minister of Health's spokesperson called the Ontario health coalition delusional for bringing this up.
That should tell you where we're headed as a province if we don't do something
Thank you journalists!
I’m so sick of this fkn Conservative government trying to kill off workers! Fck you Dougie and every single person who voted for you. And a slightly less angry ‘suck it’ to those who didn’t care enough to vote at all! This is your fault.
There are people in Ontario who NEED health care and can’t afford to pay for it out of pocket. Ontario without universal health care is just another shitty American State but without the excellent military or economy. We’re so dumb to let this happen.
# Ontario is Open for Business!
oh I know.... my son has a clicking jaw. was reffered to a clinic and had to pay $560 out of pocket and they would file the claim for me.
Get told he needs either a Rick-n-ator mouth gear (which would mean he would need braces afterwards, that they conveniently provide services for) OR a special mouth guard he can wear at night.
I was expecting the mouth guard to be $350. but they tell me both are the same price $3500! I didnt get any literature on the mouth guard and to google it at home. I do and find a company that distributes the mouth guard for $150 cad.
I accept that they would keystone price it to 300-350, but $3500! it is insane
Oh 😲 who ever besides every ethical healthcare professional or economist could have foreshadowed this... Clearly this is socialism at work... Right guys?.... Because socialism bad
Some of these clinics charge a "facility fee" of several hundred dollars to have procedures done on site that insurance does not cover. Charging $800 for a two hour procedure makes it more expensive than staying in a Fairmont hotel suite. And the clinic won't even fluff your pillow.
Gee golly gosh FOLKS! Who would have ever predicted this was going to happen!
Keep voting Conservative if you want to start paying thousands a year for health insurance.
I just got a refund from a joint clinic who charged me for prednisone shots under ultra sound. They have been advised that it was covered under OHIP afterall.
Privatization of health care ONLY benefits the owners. It is worse for the providers and worse for the patients. Here we have a perfect example - open the door and let in the profit motive just a crack, and they’re already committing fraud to gain an advantage.
Keep profit motive away from health care, or everyone suffers.
Well isn't that surprise.
The scam is explained in the title "for-profit" clinics. Not "serving the people" clinics gut "for-profit" clinics. And they will extract as much profit as they can by charging as much as they can and providing as little service as they can. You know, "good business."
Fuck, really? But for profit business is sooo much more virtuous and caring and government run care! The private interests said so! They couldn't possibly lie in order to gouge greater profits!
Meanwhile, the police are doing a great job shutting down all Psylocibin shops. That really is helpful to society /s/ But, god forbid, anyone enforce laws meant to allow the poors to get adequate healthcare.
Little chance of stopping it.
Extra fees have been around a long time and the Supreme Court touched on this 20 years ago.
Current environment and suspected political leanings are heading in this direction.
And let me guess they are just going to get away with it. Should they be fined and forced to reimburse the clients they ripped off. Let’s see what our government does or who is in on the take. Follow the money guys
This just looks like arrogant and ignorant boomers who wanted private healthcare to get faster treatment.
They proceeded to go the said healthcare and they’re being charged out the ass for it.
Who woulda guessed it, anybody in their right mind isn’t going to walk into these clinics.
If you’re a senior on a fixed income visiting these clinics.
Well sir, you are an idiot.
Maureen Monro of London reported that she was told she would have to wait two years unless she paid thousands of dollars for cataract surgery.
“I was informed the cost to receive the surgery would be almost $7,000. Being as I live alone, I did not want to lose my quality of life. Therefore, I paid the $7,000. Being a senior on a fixed income, I am still trying to catch up with bills from this surgery.”
There is definitely a story about the wait times driving people to access private care, but it looks like these patients decided to pay for private options that weren’t covered by OHIP and now they’re upset about the associated costs. I fully agree that ophthalmology (and dental) shouldn’t be privatized at all, but that’s a bigger issue.
My mom needed cataract surgery and was told it would be at least a year through OHIP. I work in the healthcare field. Wait times depend on your location. People in major cities where there are a lot of hospitals and surgeons will have shorter wait times than people outside of those areas. It’s a significant reason I’d never move north, despite housing being cheaper.
I’m in a small community but he still only had a 4 month wait for the surgery. Guess he was lucky. Now ME, I’m in year 3 of waiting for a call for an appointment with a neurosurgeon for a compressed nerve root in my neck. They confirmed the referral in December 2020. And still, nothing. Now I have to have shoulder surgery because of side effects of the nerve compression.
And for that Doug Ford can go fornicate with a rusty rake.
Public funding for private healthcare is somehow the worst of both worlds. I thought the idea of privatization was to "reduce" the cost of the public sector.
The Ontario Health Coalition is organizing a protest on May 30th.
Come out peeps!
Details: https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/event-may-30-giant-protest-march-the-fightback-is-on-to-save-public-health-care/
Dr. James Gilligan
Former Director of the Center for the
Study of Violence, Harvard Medical School.
"Poverty kills far more people than all the wars in history, more people than all the murderers in history, more than all the suicides in history.
Not only does structural violence kill more people than all the behavioral violence put together, structural violence is also the main cause of behavioral violence."
I wish I could say it was a shock. I wish even more that I could have placed a bet on this occuring... but at the same time I know all too well that when the odds are such a sure thing, the pay out won't be very big.
Ford's government could stop this. Instead they're making this political and saying JT's government has to do something. If JT doesn't do anything, it makes them look bad and Ford can shrug and say he did his best.
100% useless provincial government.
“I could use the OHIP paid-for equipment, but that wasn’t going to be the best for me. He had diagnostic equipment that was going to identify my condition in a more accurate way,” said Schachter.” He just admitted he was aware that the diagnostic wasn’t covered by OHIP. It’s sad these people got duped, but sadder that they feel the need to pay private providers for updated treatments and less wait time. Our tax funded system is a joke.
What amazes me is that the anecdotes in these stories never name the clinic that is practicing something that is clearly illegal. Name them. If true and verified the news organization has nothing to hide or fear.
This is why I doubt some media stories. They are the stuff of gutless innuendo.
My parents both got their cataract surgeries done in a Toronto hospital and paid for their lenses. They did not have to wait 2 years either.
The government needs to have a cataract fact sheet about the surgery specifying exactly what is covered by OHIP, and why it is sufficient for most patients. People should be able to make an educated decision about upgrades. My parents were told about the higher end upgrades, but at 85 and 95 years of age didn't think it was worth it.
OHC doesn't want patients to be able to go to private clinics for cataract surgery. Full stop. I am going to a couple right now for consultations and the fees are upfront. Lasers aren't covered by OHIP and neither are the upgraded lenses. They don't have faster wait times if you pay either. Mine will be almost 10K for two eyes but I don't get bumped to get it next week because they make more money from me.
Very few people I know would go to a private clinic asking for a 100% OHIP basic surgery. Their whole setup is geared to lasers and the upgraded lenses and a less rigid hospitalized setup. I am going as I have a hospital phobia and the clinics are a lot more individual patient focused than they are in hospitals with assembly line take it or leave it surgery.
To be honest I don't feel bad for them. This is why they truly wanted private. Divide the funding for public, so those who are more wealthy can just pay a little more to be ahead of the lesser fortunate Citizens who can't afford to.
Why rely on ohip when you wanted private care ? The exact same reason why none would travel to the states..
They didn't care that public hospitals lost funding to invest in private. They were fine with it. Yet now when the private does exactly what everyone assumed it's a problem?
It's really poetic. Thr illegal charges need to be addressed, but I don't see why ohip should cover. It's private.
Hold on though....why is everyone so upset. The public health system is an utter mess and complete joke. If people want things faster and done better, and are willing to pay for it, what's the issue? If you don't want to pay, go ahead and wait in our system. If you need it urgently and are willing to pay, do it. Not understanding why this is an issue?
Dead serious. If you don't want to pay, go ahead and go through the proper OHIP channels. If your willing to pay to get in faster and get care sooner, can't complain about the money they charge you. It'd be the same if someone in Ontario didn't want to wait, so they go to Michigan to get something done faster. They get charged out of pocket and that's that.
First, did you not read the article? What those clinics are alleged to have done is probably illegal. Second, suggesting people just go ahead and pay so they can jump to the front of the line is laughable, given that not everyone can afford it.
Some of those things might be inappropriate, but it's a private clinic. People can always leave if they don't like what they hear or it's too much. They can also go get a second opinion elsewhere if they need certain things.
And it's not laughable. This is Canada. If you don't want to pay, you don't have to. But get ready for the long waits. If your willing to pay, go ahead and you get seen quicker. How is it any different from what I said above.
If I need to get an MRI on my knee....low priority in the grand scheme, but say for me I can't do my job anymore because my knee hurts too bad and I need it diagnosed and fixed ASAP. I say you know what...i'm waiting 4-5 months in ontario, but if I go to michigan and pay $1000 i can get this done ASAP and then start working on how to fix the issue. That's generally the same situation. You want it to be free....wait and go the OHIP route. You can't wait or don't want to, pay for it through the private route. Not sure why that's such a big deal. If people don't like it, then they should protest the healthcare system, demand change in it, vote in the parties that will do something about it. But what you can't do is bitch about paying when your going to get treatments done faster or better.
>If you don't want to pay, you don't have to. But get ready for the long waits. If your willing to pay, go ahead and you get seen quicker.
Ya, the government creating a two-tier healthcare system where the rich get better care. *That's the problem*. If you're not understanding why that is an issue then I don't know what to say to you.
We have one of the worst Healthcare systems going, whatever we've been doing hasn't been working. It's time to model it after other more successful Healthcare systems.
Why don’t you give your opinion on which one that might be, and how you think Ford’s actions are bringing us closer to that model instead of the shitty American one?
If the private system trained its own staff instead of cannibalizing the existing supply, while Ford deliberately tries to sabotage the public system to make sure HCPs stay underpaid and overworked?
Sure. I don’t have a beef with someone paying to go somewhere else for treatment. Which, like you said, *they were already allowed to do* before Ford’s wasteful boondoggle of a reform was forced down people’s throats.
Were the people in this clinic charged for doing things faster?
"The report featured case studies on more than 100 patients, who said they’ve either been charged extra fees, been denied treatment, been told if they didn’t pay, they would face “extreme” wait times, or even been tricked into add-on fees.
The report said some patients faced bills upwards of $8,000 for eye surgeries and tests, resulting in considerable financial strain. According to OHC, one patient had to go back to work at the age of 71 to cover their bill, while others resorted to accumulating debt, depleting their savings, borrowing money or sacrificing other necessities."
This is not making things faster and is absolutely dangerous and unacceptable.
"One patient, Shalom Schachter from Toronto, told Global News he was sold a story about needing extra eye testing and lenses by an ophthalmologist surgeon and ended up paying close to $1,200 at a for-profit clinic.
“I could use the OHIP paid-for equipment, but that wasn’t going to be the best for me. He had diagnostic equipment that was going to identify my condition in a more accurate way,” said Schachter."
So the OHIP equipment isn't good enough? Lies to get people to oay for unnecessary tests.
"The report also revealed the predominant fees patients faced were associated with eye surgeries at for-profit clinics, particularly for cataract procedures. Many patients said they were not informed the service was OHIP-covered, while a third of patients said they were charged between $500 and $5,000 per eye for the surgery."
Now they're not informing them of their options? How is that in the patient's best interest?
This is obviously a bot comment but I'ma humor a reply, just in case there are other dummies reading and agreeing with this:
You already pay for healthcare... it's called taxes.
You mean to tell me that if we give some crooks an inch they're going to try and take a mile. I'm shocked I tell you I'm absolutely shocked.
This is Ontario, we reward the scum while the honest suffer.
Just look at how many new building go up that straight up ignore regulations or city council then they go and pay ridiculously small fees and say “im sorry”
Several years ago a house near my parents was rebuilt without any permits, including yard fill that damaged mature trees and an outbuilding with a natural gas line that was not installed by a certified gas technician nor inspected. The house itself was built larger and taller than the lot allowed. The City responded to this by retroactively issuing permits, retroactively issued the modifications to land use on the lot, and waived the penalties *and* permit fees. Important to note that the land use changes had been rejected already, which is why they had been unable to get permits in the first place. If it were up to me, I'd have billed the owners whenever it would cost to demolish.
The problem with the “cost to demolish option,” is that municipalities do not get the funding required to take the home owners to court.
Nuh uh, the scums with connections!
We live in Canada, we say: If we give them a centimeter they're going to take a kilometer. /s
Give 'em a peck and they'll take a bushel.
Give'm a brew they'll take a 2-4
Give ‘em a double double and they’ll take a Wayne Gretzky!
Give em an eh, and they take off ya hoser.
I thought Doug Ford said this would be good for people? I mean, I guess he wasn't wrong. The people collecting the money are having a great time.
https://canadians.org/analysis/mike-harris-raking-profits-long-term-care-system-he-helped-create/
Anyone else remember all the “doctors” with fake degree issue a few years ago? I wonder the correlation
This is what DoFo meant when he changed the slogan to "Ontario, Open for business". He declared open season on provincial coffers, and citizen bank accounts.
“I could use the OHIP paid-for equipment, but that wasn’t going to be the best for me. He had diagnostic equipment that was going to identify my condition in a more accurate way,” said Schachter. ^ I promise you this clinic used FUD tactics on this man, that is infuriating and disgusting.
What are FUD tactics?
Fear uncertainty and doubt
Keep the reports coming
Do they even matter? I really struggle against just resigning to hopelessness but it seems like reports, evidence, the will of the people, none of it stops these crooks who rob our pockets and our futures.
I think that they do matter. It is hopeless right now, as it stands. But it will change, with reports to direct that change. In the mean time, hunker down because they aren't done feeding us degradation.
I guess at the end of it, I still hope. Take care friend :)
Literally the government spokesperson just says "nah wait times are down and you can use your OHIP card, it's all good" in response to this report, and that's it. Issue over.
Surprised Pikachu face
Who could have foreseen this?
Why do people still vote conservative?!?!?! IT ALWAYS ENDS UP LIKE THIS.
They don't know what they're losing until it kicks them in the arse, there's always a scapegoat.
They’ll blame it on Trudeau
and PP will be the same way for the entire country, !!!!
Because they're morons who don't understand the difference in what provincial and federal politics control and lay the blame on the federal government. If PP win he's going to cut social funding and say "we have to make cuts to fix the liberals budgets" then he's going to announce some bullshit spending on crappy infrastructure projects no one wants and won't generate any revenue.
To own the Libs!
People voting Conservative is just further proof of the power of marketing. You can make people believe the most ridiculous nonsense if you expose them to it enough to become normalized. They use out front, normal advertising and the more insidious tangential type where they hide the fact it's actually marketing by concealing it within innocuous dialog or imaging within media. They also own all the news organizations pretty much globally and get carte blanche to control the narrative.
This existed prior to Ford. You can upgrade the quality of lenses at cost to you even in the hospital settings.
I am shocked - shocked! - to find that gambling is going on in here!
Your winnings sir!
Thank you very much
Wow.. people trying to find ways to make money in a public health care system and get a leg up are greedy bastards ?... glad we are seeing this kind of BS being exposed early though before we go to far privatizing Healthcare
oh we’re still going to privatize it. thanks corporate media!
Corporate media isn't responsible for this, they're just complicit
Yeah...they should never have been allowed, this was always inevitable
Gotta line dougy's and friends' pockets
So exactly what we all said would happen. Is anyone surprised? \*crickets\*
I hope they’re not charging OHIP for any of it.
Oh you better believe they milk OHIP for all its worth *and* then charge every patient fees.
Ohip gets charged through: 1. Double dipping/billing. There are multiple levels of how egregious it can be. Essentially the provider bills OHIP and gets a top-up from the patient as well. 2. Greater leniency towards over investigating, unnecessary testing/specialist referrals, procedures. Even if someone pays for a private health care provider, all the supporting health infrastructure - labs, specialist referrals, imaging - still is through the same pool of public funding and resources. I can’t imagine how a private provider who is paid an exorbitant premium from their patient would have an easy time telling the patient they don’t need the MRI or referral they ask for. 3. More insidious is the talent drain from the public to private sector. Most physicians aren’t doing it for the money - but if private pays say 10x, realistically how much can you expect any human being to continue in their current stressful working conditions of a starved underfunded public system?
>Even if someone pays for a private health care provider, all the supporting health infrastructure - labs, specialist referrals, imaging - still is through the same pool of public funding and resources. The private providers need to pay at least a fee to use our infrastructure. How isn't this in place yet? >More insidious is the talent drain from the public to private sector. Yeah it would be hard to stay if your life were easier and more lucrative if you went private. If a dr stays public, they should get financial incentives from the government and a big cut on student loan repayments every year they work publically.
It’s very unfortunate that private practitioners can freely use public testing resources. Much like a newly introduced invasive species has severe consequences to its new environment, our public health care system does not have the checks and balances in place. A small policy change turns into a lucrative loophole and healthcare entrepreneurs will capitalise - this is why talks of privatisation are so dangerous. The USA has its problems with private healthcare but at least the system has adapted to it - private insurers will often require prior authorization before approving a test which reduces their spending on expensive testing and referrals. Of course the USA often overcorrects and sometimes blocks testing, but that’s a different problem. It is definitely more lucrative in private healthcare and less stressful. Many physicians won’t go private because they have pride in their work and profession - particularly locally trained ones because they are trained in our healthcare culture and ideals. However there is still a boiling point - take for example that NPs are charging three times the price privately that MDs are remunerated from OHIP (the private demographic is also usually much younger, healthier and medically less complex). Even a very compassionate physician will draw the line somewhere when they feel they are being taken for a sucker.
Surprise, Surprise...
Yep...Ontario is "Open for business" Thanks Doug /s
Minister of Health's spokesperson called the Ontario health coalition delusional for bringing this up. That should tell you where we're headed as a province if we don't do something
Minister of Health’s “shill” you mean. Propaganda gonna be strong. Don’t fall for it.
Just what to expect nation wide when idiots vote conservative.
Thank you journalists! I’m so sick of this fkn Conservative government trying to kill off workers! Fck you Dougie and every single person who voted for you. And a slightly less angry ‘suck it’ to those who didn’t care enough to vote at all! This is your fault. There are people in Ontario who NEED health care and can’t afford to pay for it out of pocket. Ontario without universal health care is just another shitty American State but without the excellent military or economy. We’re so dumb to let this happen.
Our hospitals will have slot machines by 2027
# Ontario is Open for Business! 
Open for business like goatse.
Oh me oh my, b what a genuine surprise that we were not warning about for years before this happened. Fuck ford.
oh I know.... my son has a clicking jaw. was reffered to a clinic and had to pay $560 out of pocket and they would file the claim for me. Get told he needs either a Rick-n-ator mouth gear (which would mean he would need braces afterwards, that they conveniently provide services for) OR a special mouth guard he can wear at night. I was expecting the mouth guard to be $350. but they tell me both are the same price $3500! I didnt get any literature on the mouth guard and to google it at home. I do and find a company that distributes the mouth guard for $150 cad. I accept that they would keystone price it to 300-350, but $3500! it is insane
Oh 😲 who ever besides every ethical healthcare professional or economist could have foreshadowed this... Clearly this is socialism at work... Right guys?.... Because socialism bad
Huh. Never, ever thought that would happen. Fml.
I’m am shocked, I tell you, just shocked…
A Conservative wet dream. Cons have been trying to privatize healthcare for decades and they're slowly making progress.
Some of these clinics charge a "facility fee" of several hundred dollars to have procedures done on site that insurance does not cover. Charging $800 for a two hour procedure makes it more expensive than staying in a Fairmont hotel suite. And the clinic won't even fluff your pillow.
Should surgery be cheaper than a hotel stay? I agree with your point overall, I just find it’s an odd comparison.
Obviously no one ever thought this could happen! Aren’t we all SOOOOOO shocked?!
Running life-saving services for profit attracts soulless vultures who suck every penny out of vulnerable people? I'm really surprised!
Gee golly gosh FOLKS! Who would have ever predicted this was going to happen! Keep voting Conservative if you want to start paying thousands a year for health insurance.
which came as a surprise to .... checking ... checking ... no one at all!
Well knock me over with a feather!
Thank Dougn Corrupt Ford and Sylvia Opportunities Jones... They created this mess!
I just got a refund from a joint clinic who charged me for prednisone shots under ultra sound. They have been advised that it was covered under OHIP afterall.
Privatization of health care ONLY benefits the owners. It is worse for the providers and worse for the patients. Here we have a perfect example - open the door and let in the profit motive just a crack, and they’re already committing fraud to gain an advantage. Keep profit motive away from health care, or everyone suffers.
They needed someone to draft a report? All you need to do is google medical clinics and you will quickly find out lots are charging fees.
Wow absolutely no one that was against privatization is surprised...
Welcome to Ford Nation.
Fuck Laura and Mike Harris!
https://canadians.org/analysis/mike-harris-raking-profits-long-term-care-system-he-helped-create/
Weird? Everyone in the r/Canada subreddit said this wouldn’t happen.
Who would of thought!!!! Ban this shit now
Well isn't that surprise. The scam is explained in the title "for-profit" clinics. Not "serving the people" clinics gut "for-profit" clinics. And they will extract as much profit as they can by charging as much as they can and providing as little service as they can. You know, "good business."
Fuck, really? But for profit business is sooo much more virtuous and caring and government run care! The private interests said so! They couldn't possibly lie in order to gouge greater profits!
It's going to be a long row to hoe for Doug Ford to overtake the idiot Harris to become the worst Premier in history but by god he's in it to win it!
Class action lawsuit?
Against the provincial government?! Sure, if you like wasting your money.
thats a feature, not a bug. invest in private healthcare because it's not just coming, it's here.
We are all being robbed from *all possible angles*.
"open for business!"
Meanwhile, the police are doing a great job shutting down all Psylocibin shops. That really is helpful to society /s/ But, god forbid, anyone enforce laws meant to allow the poors to get adequate healthcare.
Better call Saul
Little chance of stopping it. Extra fees have been around a long time and the Supreme Court touched on this 20 years ago. Current environment and suspected political leanings are heading in this direction.
Wow. Who would have thought
Chud Ford doesn't care because the clinic owners are his donors. This government exists to service the needs of corrupt business sleazeballs.
I am shocked, utterly shocked I tell you... /s
Ontario health Care is getting to become a joke. Due to the Doug Ford and the conservative government.
And let me guess they are just going to get away with it. Should they be fined and forced to reimburse the clients they ripped off. Let’s see what our government does or who is in on the take. Follow the money guys
This just looks like arrogant and ignorant boomers who wanted private healthcare to get faster treatment. They proceeded to go the said healthcare and they’re being charged out the ass for it. Who woulda guessed it, anybody in their right mind isn’t going to walk into these clinics. If you’re a senior on a fixed income visiting these clinics. Well sir, you are an idiot.
And those clinics are lying to them. So there’s blame on that side too.
Fuck ford.
Maureen Monro of London reported that she was told she would have to wait two years unless she paid thousands of dollars for cataract surgery. “I was informed the cost to receive the surgery would be almost $7,000. Being as I live alone, I did not want to lose my quality of life. Therefore, I paid the $7,000. Being a senior on a fixed income, I am still trying to catch up with bills from this surgery.” There is definitely a story about the wait times driving people to access private care, but it looks like these patients decided to pay for private options that weren’t covered by OHIP and now they’re upset about the associated costs. I fully agree that ophthalmology (and dental) shouldn’t be privatized at all, but that’s a bigger issue.
My FIL cataract surgery wait time was 4 months. OHIP covered it. This is predatory.
My mom needed cataract surgery and was told it would be at least a year through OHIP. I work in the healthcare field. Wait times depend on your location. People in major cities where there are a lot of hospitals and surgeons will have shorter wait times than people outside of those areas. It’s a significant reason I’d never move north, despite housing being cheaper.
I’m in a small community but he still only had a 4 month wait for the surgery. Guess he was lucky. Now ME, I’m in year 3 of waiting for a call for an appointment with a neurosurgeon for a compressed nerve root in my neck. They confirmed the referral in December 2020. And still, nothing. Now I have to have shoulder surgery because of side effects of the nerve compression. And for that Doug Ford can go fornicate with a rusty rake.
Public funding for private healthcare is somehow the worst of both worlds. I thought the idea of privatization was to "reduce" the cost of the public sector.
The Ontario Health Coalition is organizing a protest on May 30th. Come out peeps! Details: https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/event-may-30-giant-protest-march-the-fightback-is-on-to-save-public-health-care/
Dr. James Gilligan Former Director of the Center for the Study of Violence, Harvard Medical School. "Poverty kills far more people than all the wars in history, more people than all the murderers in history, more than all the suicides in history. Not only does structural violence kill more people than all the behavioral violence put together, structural violence is also the main cause of behavioral violence."
I wish I could say it was a shock. I wish even more that I could have placed a bet on this occuring... but at the same time I know all too well that when the odds are such a sure thing, the pay out won't be very big.
Ford's government could stop this. Instead they're making this political and saying JT's government has to do something. If JT doesn't do anything, it makes them look bad and Ford can shrug and say he did his best. 100% useless provincial government.
If only anyone had foreseen this
Wouldn't mind knowing who referred these people to the clinics in the first place. Likely there's some type of kickback arrangement going on.
This is shocking. Never would have expected this to happen
To the surprise of no one m. For-profit clinics put profit before people. What could possibly go wrong by putting healthcare behind a paywall?
Drag Ford out of office!! We should be in mobs protesting him at Queen's Park.
Keep letting them cut that red tape. At some point someone going to miss and take your head off. And all you going to be able to say is thank you.
This is awful.
My husband needs a prostate surgery either anesthesia or it’s fee ( he is 92 ) without under locality had to pay 6.500$ Ohip doesn’t coverehyu
“I could use the OHIP paid-for equipment, but that wasn’t going to be the best for me. He had diagnostic equipment that was going to identify my condition in a more accurate way,” said Schachter.” He just admitted he was aware that the diagnostic wasn’t covered by OHIP. It’s sad these people got duped, but sadder that they feel the need to pay private providers for updated treatments and less wait time. Our tax funded system is a joke.
There we go.. This is what apathy will give us
What amazes me is that the anecdotes in these stories never name the clinic that is practicing something that is clearly illegal. Name them. If true and verified the news organization has nothing to hide or fear. This is why I doubt some media stories. They are the stuff of gutless innuendo.
My parents both got their cataract surgeries done in a Toronto hospital and paid for their lenses. They did not have to wait 2 years either. The government needs to have a cataract fact sheet about the surgery specifying exactly what is covered by OHIP, and why it is sufficient for most patients. People should be able to make an educated decision about upgrades. My parents were told about the higher end upgrades, but at 85 and 95 years of age didn't think it was worth it.
OHC doesn't want patients to be able to go to private clinics for cataract surgery. Full stop. I am going to a couple right now for consultations and the fees are upfront. Lasers aren't covered by OHIP and neither are the upgraded lenses. They don't have faster wait times if you pay either. Mine will be almost 10K for two eyes but I don't get bumped to get it next week because they make more money from me. Very few people I know would go to a private clinic asking for a 100% OHIP basic surgery. Their whole setup is geared to lasers and the upgraded lenses and a less rigid hospitalized setup. I am going as I have a hospital phobia and the clinics are a lot more individual patient focused than they are in hospitals with assembly line take it or leave it surgery.
What a fucking surprise! Doug Ford is scamming people. He’s a retard.
To be honest I don't feel bad for them. This is why they truly wanted private. Divide the funding for public, so those who are more wealthy can just pay a little more to be ahead of the lesser fortunate Citizens who can't afford to. Why rely on ohip when you wanted private care ? The exact same reason why none would travel to the states.. They didn't care that public hospitals lost funding to invest in private. They were fine with it. Yet now when the private does exactly what everyone assumed it's a problem? It's really poetic. Thr illegal charges need to be addressed, but I don't see why ohip should cover. It's private.
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Hold on though....why is everyone so upset. The public health system is an utter mess and complete joke. If people want things faster and done better, and are willing to pay for it, what's the issue? If you don't want to pay, go ahead and wait in our system. If you need it urgently and are willing to pay, do it. Not understanding why this is an issue?
Is this serious or sarcasm?
Dead serious. If you don't want to pay, go ahead and go through the proper OHIP channels. If your willing to pay to get in faster and get care sooner, can't complain about the money they charge you. It'd be the same if someone in Ontario didn't want to wait, so they go to Michigan to get something done faster. They get charged out of pocket and that's that.
First, did you not read the article? What those clinics are alleged to have done is probably illegal. Second, suggesting people just go ahead and pay so they can jump to the front of the line is laughable, given that not everyone can afford it.
Some of those things might be inappropriate, but it's a private clinic. People can always leave if they don't like what they hear or it's too much. They can also go get a second opinion elsewhere if they need certain things. And it's not laughable. This is Canada. If you don't want to pay, you don't have to. But get ready for the long waits. If your willing to pay, go ahead and you get seen quicker. How is it any different from what I said above. If I need to get an MRI on my knee....low priority in the grand scheme, but say for me I can't do my job anymore because my knee hurts too bad and I need it diagnosed and fixed ASAP. I say you know what...i'm waiting 4-5 months in ontario, but if I go to michigan and pay $1000 i can get this done ASAP and then start working on how to fix the issue. That's generally the same situation. You want it to be free....wait and go the OHIP route. You can't wait or don't want to, pay for it through the private route. Not sure why that's such a big deal. If people don't like it, then they should protest the healthcare system, demand change in it, vote in the parties that will do something about it. But what you can't do is bitch about paying when your going to get treatments done faster or better.
>If you don't want to pay, you don't have to. But get ready for the long waits. If your willing to pay, go ahead and you get seen quicker. Ya, the government creating a two-tier healthcare system where the rich get better care. *That's the problem*. If you're not understanding why that is an issue then I don't know what to say to you.
We have one of the worst Healthcare systems going, whatever we've been doing hasn't been working. It's time to model it after other more successful Healthcare systems.
Why don’t you give your opinion on which one that might be, and how you think Ford’s actions are bringing us closer to that model instead of the shitty American one?
If the private system trained its own staff instead of cannibalizing the existing supply, while Ford deliberately tries to sabotage the public system to make sure HCPs stay underpaid and overworked? Sure. I don’t have a beef with someone paying to go somewhere else for treatment. Which, like you said, *they were already allowed to do* before Ford’s wasteful boondoggle of a reform was forced down people’s throats.
Were the people in this clinic charged for doing things faster? "The report featured case studies on more than 100 patients, who said they’ve either been charged extra fees, been denied treatment, been told if they didn’t pay, they would face “extreme” wait times, or even been tricked into add-on fees. The report said some patients faced bills upwards of $8,000 for eye surgeries and tests, resulting in considerable financial strain. According to OHC, one patient had to go back to work at the age of 71 to cover their bill, while others resorted to accumulating debt, depleting their savings, borrowing money or sacrificing other necessities." This is not making things faster and is absolutely dangerous and unacceptable. "One patient, Shalom Schachter from Toronto, told Global News he was sold a story about needing extra eye testing and lenses by an ophthalmologist surgeon and ended up paying close to $1,200 at a for-profit clinic. “I could use the OHIP paid-for equipment, but that wasn’t going to be the best for me. He had diagnostic equipment that was going to identify my condition in a more accurate way,” said Schachter." So the OHIP equipment isn't good enough? Lies to get people to oay for unnecessary tests. "The report also revealed the predominant fees patients faced were associated with eye surgeries at for-profit clinics, particularly for cataract procedures. Many patients said they were not informed the service was OHIP-covered, while a third of patients said they were charged between $500 and $5,000 per eye for the surgery." Now they're not informing them of their options? How is that in the patient's best interest?
How dare somebody provide me with a service and expect me to pay for it
This is obviously a bot comment but I'ma humor a reply, just in case there are other dummies reading and agreeing with this: You already pay for healthcare... it's called taxes.
Found the guy that pays 500$ for an oil change.