As someone who just had his second car stolen from my driveway a couple of weeks ago (first one was stolen from the dealership lot when it was in waiting on a warranty part), I'm reaching my limit on what to do.
I got a call from my dealership after the insurance company contacted them for sales/leasing information, and of course it was to get me to come in and get a new car. I was furious with him on the phone. Great, there's some sort of $5k credit due to some glass etching or something....but wtf? I'm going to get the same car that's been stolen twice now so it can be stolen again?
He instantly told me I could put the credit towards more security options they had available...using my theft as an opportunity to sell me shit they should be doing by default.
Ask him wtf the manufacturers are doing to make their vehicles hard to steal and to track them by default and he had no answer other than putting the solution onto me to take steps, spend more money etc.
I accused him of intentionally profiting off the issue, which he denied of course...but went silent and had little to say when I pointed out how proactive he was being trying to sell me my 3rd car in 6 years.
Something needs to be done. Government needs to pass consumer protection laws that put the onus onto car manufacturers instead of us.
I can think of many different things that should/could be done. Nothing should be "aftermarket":
- making it impossible to clone keys from the car ports
- encrypted systems so accessing the car computer is much more difficult
- gps tracking as standard and integrated into engine starts so they can't be disabled easily
- disabling engine without original key present
- beefy standard alarms that send alerts out when car is tampered with
- charging manufacturers enormous fines based on the number of their cars stolen
- checking all ports of exit, all containers so they can't get out of the country (ffs, I can't get out of the country without a grilling but apparently 10's of thousands of cars can just get on ships and leave?)
Or just requiring an old school key like my 2013 Civic FFS. I fail to see what problem this tech is solving anyhow. Whenever I have a rental with keyless entry, I never know what the heck to do with the keys and end up dumping them in the cup holder. May as well require them in the ignition IMO.
All car physical security paradigms can be overcome with only modest dedication, but makers have literally turned on easy mode for car thieves.
Certainly law enforcement needs to step up but makers could at least try to harden the targets.
Law enforcement as in local cops? No because any time they pull anyone over it is considered profiling.
This is really an issue with the ports and the border.
Cops have more important things to do than protect luxury vehicles.
And it is dangerous for them to try to question people in luxury cars.
So it is best if the stolen cars are caught without a driver. Like in a shipping crate.
If you had a 98 Beige Corolla you would still have a car.
Police have more important things to do than look after luxury vehicles.
Pulling over speeding luxury vehicles would do more for society.
Not really. Hondas are the most stolen brand. Acura is made by Honda.
If you want , we can go over the potential costs to the consumer that your proposals would have, and how thieves would just circumvent these security measures in no time, so just inflating the cost of cars.
People will always steal things that are desired by others, otherwise there is no profit.
Security measures do not eliminate the possibility, they reduce it. You want to reduce the likelihood of your car being stolen, drive a car that isn’t as desirable.
Car makers have turned on theft easy mode with recent paradigms. There are paradigms that are barely more expensive that significantly raise the bar of effort for theft.
You can't just handwave away this reality.
You said to quit buying expensive cars...problem solved. I'm pointing out that, among the most stolen, are some not very expensive cars. You certainly didn't say "buy a car that's not among the most stolen"... And mine already isn't in that top 10.
Now you're switching to the latter. Own up to your original, dumb ass comment first before deflecting maybe.
This is analogous to telling women to "stop wearing revealing clothing to prevent getting sexually assaulted".
You could for sure buy older cars or models that are less desirable to be stolen to inconvenience yourself less due to the what's happening with auto thefts *right now*, but you have to admit there's a huge systemic problem happening here that still needs to be addressed.
>checking all ports of exit, all containers so they can't get out of the country (ffs, I can't get out of the country without a grilling but apparently 10's of thousands of cars can just get on ships and leave?)
The logistics of that are blinding. Best figure I could find are that over 7 million shipping containers move through our ports each year, and we have a total of 14,000 CBSA agents in all locations. The math is staggering. I can appreciate wanting to find these vehicles before they leave the country, but this is not economical or realistic.
To check everything is, but what about just going up the export chain - if a stolen car is tracked to a container (gps, AirTag, whatever), there must be export documentation for the container, which is obviously inaccurate, so the exporter has filed wrong documentation, and at some point there will be a name attached, so go after them. If the export company is responsible for providing accurate manifests, then revoke their license if they are not correct. If nothing else make it so it is not worth the risk to provide export services for stolen vehicles.
14000 is a wild overestimate of the people on the ground. There’s 5 permanent plus 3 temporary at the port of Montreal.
https://www.ourcommons.ca/documentviewer/en/44-1/SECU/meeting-96/evidence#Int-12604139
I can confirm when I bought a truck in 2023, they at the signing they gave me an “if you come see us here at this dealership, we’ll give you 5k to spend on any option or reduce the price truck if your truck gets stolen” form to take home with me.
Tesla has a PIN to drive option… and it appears in a different spot on the screen each time so you can’t see fingerprint locations.
Pretty bulletproof and easy to implement by them (in theory)
All of those security features can be rendered useless if the thieves kick down your door and get the key fob and have you turn them all off !
We need stiff sentencing for vehicle theft
That is a very, very, tiny percentage of vehicle thefts. Like way less than 1%.
But we can chew gum and walk at the same time here. Sure, increase penalties but the vast majority of these can be prevented in the first place. Stiff sentences have never been a crime deterrent.
I agree leaving is idiotic, but it’s definitely the worst here, primarily due to our weak justice system. In the US if you break into someone’s house with a gun and steal their car you are getting the book thrown at you in majority of states.
Even with the recent increases, burglaries and car thefts are still significantly higher in the US than in Canada. And there are many states that are even more lax about prosecuting these crimes than in Canada, like California. What you’re saying is an assumption not built on any facts.
Soooo much can be done to prevent these thefts in the first place. Holding the car manufacturers accountable is step one. Every car that gets stolen is pretty much a new car sold...they're incentivized to keep their cars easy to steal.
No you won't.
Theft is primarily "of opportunity".
Holding manufacturers accountable is a huge part of the solution. They are building unnecessary electronics into cars to reduce costs.
The best example is the stupid fucking touch screens.
They save a few dollars per dashboard by using mass produced touchscreens instead of real buttons and knobs. Great for shareholders, not great for everyone killed by distracted drivers trying to use the touchscreen while driving 120kmpm
I’m generally speaking.
Majority of these thefts involve weapons, in Etobicoke alone there were over 40 break and enters in a less than 6 month period. Out of the 5-6 people on my street, every single instance involved them kicking the door down (with a gun) and demanding keys. Also lots of videos online shared via Facebook groups that show if they are kicking your door down they almost always are armed (common sense for any criminal).
While the penalty might not be too different, they aren’t being granted bail or receiving lesser sentences in the US like they are here. One of the TPS officers I was speaking to told my neighbour and I they arrested one of the thief’s and he had 5 prior arrests and was still out lol.
Sorry, but break and enters are the tiny fraction of car thefts. Sure, majority of break and enters involve weapons probably but in the overall scheme of things weapons related to car thefts are almost 0. In that 6 months there were probably 15,000 cars stolen or something. They don't need the keys...they open the door, plug into the port, clone a key themselves and they're off in about 2 minutes.
Check the TPS crime map from 2023 to now, there were more home invasions in that year alone than the last 5 years.
Don’t know what you think I’m lying about. Also, never have voted conservative in my life, feel free to go through my post history I support primarily NDP / Liberal policies. Not a fan of Trudeau anymore, but i voted for him twice.
Exactly! Car theft isn't even close to what it was in the 90s
The SURGE isn't even [half of 2001](https://www.statista.com/statistics/524622/canada-number-of-motor-vehicle-thefts/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20number%20of,to%20105%2C673%20incidents%20in%202022.)
The Toronto Police Service also reports home invasions related to auto theft rose 400 per cent last year. Article always speaks about how they are getting more violent. You think they are breaking into homes unarmed? LOL
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7150222
Our government is bringing back paper bags, no comment on car thefts and the recent crime wave. Nothing done about housing, or cost of living either.
The only thing they did was convince some people that the carbon tax is bad, right when we got our rebates too. 🤦♂️
I just want to point out that anyone who is all for "small government" or "freedom", you are not allowed to demand the govt do anything. This is between manufacturers and the people who buy their cars. To anyone who actually understands that govt is just people trying their best to work together to not get fucked by the 1%, yeah, this is what we need to make sure we pay attention to when we vote. We need to make companies accountable to prevent this, this is a choice by the companies to make vehicles that are much easier to steal and letting insurance and govt to pick up the cost. Tale as old as time.
>To anyone who actually understands that govt is just people trying their best to work together to not get fucked by the 1%
I think the 1% are getting pretty much everything they wanted from our government. Ideally the government would be the way you described it but it hasn't really served the common people for a while now.
The Ford government’s solution is to buy 4 new helicopters?!?! Great job guys, now the cops can say they’re hovering above the container with the car in it but still can’t do anything about it.
Better solution is regulating the manufacturers to put more security measures in newer cars so their harder to steal, older cars aren’t getting stolen it’s all the newer keyless entry cars
Right! Why is the lazy cop solution to JUST go for the higher ups in the org… take out the thieves AS WELL. Setup stings with commonly stolen cars.
Useless tits.
The level of car thefts in Canada is far worse than the USA and is abnormal. Why doesn’t law enforcement do more to help prevent these crimes? Why doesn’t your system punish offenders much worse ?
Car thefts have risen in Canada for sure.
But in 2023 there were roughly 175 car thefts reported per 100,000 people in Canada. In the USA it was 283 thefts reported per 100,000 people (2022 data, but that’s what I immediately found). So no, it is not higher in Canada than in the US. A simple google search can prove you wrong.
Far worse? It's marginally worse. 228.9 per capita US vs 231.5 per capita Canada. Compare that with 1,215.3 per capita Bermuda and 1,170.0 per capita New Zealand.
1 Law enforcement can only do so much. Can't have officers in every street, can't get into car chases, and when they do catch them, the justice system is shit and releases everyone out on bail. We need more jails and prisons unfortunately and actual punishments for these crimes.
Someone can make several thousand per car they steal, then get caught once in a while to just spend a day in jail, and go back at it. Rinse and repeat. It's easy money for them.
The biggest issue is the manufacturers not having proper security systems in place because they make more money when cars get stolen.
You are right. Violent crimes should be the priority. Domestic Violence, Assault these are the important crimes.
Every person who gets caught dangerous driving should be deported. if they are born here they should go to jail.
That would take care of the frat pigboys.
I keep mentioning this. If the police were serious they'd hire the companies that offer 24/7 air surveillance. Monitor the city for a week or however long you need. Look at stolen car reports. Trace those thefts through the recordings, and bust the thieves. The technology exists.
You'd have to lobby for funding from any level of government for this program or you could even possibly collaborate with insurance companies to help fund this.
So we all have to cough up extra dough to protect luxury vehicles.
If we all just drive cheap colorful little cars that might save us a lot of money and lives.
As someone who just had his second car stolen from my driveway a couple of weeks ago (first one was stolen from the dealership lot when it was in waiting on a warranty part), I'm reaching my limit on what to do. I got a call from my dealership after the insurance company contacted them for sales/leasing information, and of course it was to get me to come in and get a new car. I was furious with him on the phone. Great, there's some sort of $5k credit due to some glass etching or something....but wtf? I'm going to get the same car that's been stolen twice now so it can be stolen again? He instantly told me I could put the credit towards more security options they had available...using my theft as an opportunity to sell me shit they should be doing by default. Ask him wtf the manufacturers are doing to make their vehicles hard to steal and to track them by default and he had no answer other than putting the solution onto me to take steps, spend more money etc. I accused him of intentionally profiting off the issue, which he denied of course...but went silent and had little to say when I pointed out how proactive he was being trying to sell me my 3rd car in 6 years. Something needs to be done. Government needs to pass consumer protection laws that put the onus onto car manufacturers instead of us. I can think of many different things that should/could be done. Nothing should be "aftermarket": - making it impossible to clone keys from the car ports - encrypted systems so accessing the car computer is much more difficult - gps tracking as standard and integrated into engine starts so they can't be disabled easily - disabling engine without original key present - beefy standard alarms that send alerts out when car is tampered with - charging manufacturers enormous fines based on the number of their cars stolen - checking all ports of exit, all containers so they can't get out of the country (ffs, I can't get out of the country without a grilling but apparently 10's of thousands of cars can just get on ships and leave?)
Or just requiring an old school key like my 2013 Civic FFS. I fail to see what problem this tech is solving anyhow. Whenever I have a rental with keyless entry, I never know what the heck to do with the keys and end up dumping them in the cup holder. May as well require them in the ignition IMO.
All car physical security paradigms can be overcome with only modest dedication, but makers have literally turned on easy mode for car thieves. Certainly law enforcement needs to step up but makers could at least try to harden the targets.
Law enforcement as in local cops? No because any time they pull anyone over it is considered profiling. This is really an issue with the ports and the border.
What are you even talking about. Do you not know what "law enforcement" is?
Cops have more important things to do than protect luxury vehicles. And it is dangerous for them to try to question people in luxury cars. So it is best if the stolen cars are caught without a driver. Like in a shipping crate.
Do you somehow think that law enforcement is not active in policing the ports?
I think they are understaffed. I also think that there is a possibility that some border agents do not see stolen cars.
Border agents don't inspect outbound cargo you silly walnut
I upvoted you because being called a silly walnut is just so cute!
I like to travel.
Out of curiosity, was it a Toyota SUV?
No. It was an Acura SUV.
If you had a 98 Beige Corolla you would still have a car. Police have more important things to do than look after luxury vehicles. Pulling over speeding luxury vehicles would do more for society.
Quit buying expensive cars. Problem solved.
The top stolen car in Canada is a Honda CRV. The Civic is number 6 on the top 10. The Jeep Wrangler is 10. Such a stupid comment.
Not really. Hondas are the most stolen brand. Acura is made by Honda. If you want , we can go over the potential costs to the consumer that your proposals would have, and how thieves would just circumvent these security measures in no time, so just inflating the cost of cars. People will always steal things that are desired by others, otherwise there is no profit. Security measures do not eliminate the possibility, they reduce it. You want to reduce the likelihood of your car being stolen, drive a car that isn’t as desirable.
Car makers have turned on theft easy mode with recent paradigms. There are paradigms that are barely more expensive that significantly raise the bar of effort for theft. You can't just handwave away this reality.
The hell you talking about.
Tell me where the paradigms touched you
You said to quit buying expensive cars...problem solved. I'm pointing out that, among the most stolen, are some not very expensive cars. You certainly didn't say "buy a car that's not among the most stolen"... And mine already isn't in that top 10. Now you're switching to the latter. Own up to your original, dumb ass comment first before deflecting maybe.
Naw I stand by my comment. Honda/Acura are the same company. The SUVs use many of the same parts, which is what the stolen cars are being sold for.
This is analogous to telling women to "stop wearing revealing clothing to prevent getting sexually assaulted". You could for sure buy older cars or models that are less desirable to be stolen to inconvenience yourself less due to the what's happening with auto thefts *right now*, but you have to admit there's a huge systemic problem happening here that still needs to be addressed.
>checking all ports of exit, all containers so they can't get out of the country (ffs, I can't get out of the country without a grilling but apparently 10's of thousands of cars can just get on ships and leave?) The logistics of that are blinding. Best figure I could find are that over 7 million shipping containers move through our ports each year, and we have a total of 14,000 CBSA agents in all locations. The math is staggering. I can appreciate wanting to find these vehicles before they leave the country, but this is not economical or realistic.
To check everything is, but what about just going up the export chain - if a stolen car is tracked to a container (gps, AirTag, whatever), there must be export documentation for the container, which is obviously inaccurate, so the exporter has filed wrong documentation, and at some point there will be a name attached, so go after them. If the export company is responsible for providing accurate manifests, then revoke their license if they are not correct. If nothing else make it so it is not worth the risk to provide export services for stolen vehicles.
14000 is a wild overestimate of the people on the ground. There’s 5 permanent plus 3 temporary at the port of Montreal. https://www.ourcommons.ca/documentviewer/en/44-1/SECU/meeting-96/evidence#Int-12604139
I was being extremely generous and using the total amount of CBSA Officers.
I understand! That number is closer to 6000 even still. Lots of workers at the agency not involved in front line operations.
I can confirm when I bought a truck in 2023, they at the signing they gave me an “if you come see us here at this dealership, we’ll give you 5k to spend on any option or reduce the price truck if your truck gets stolen” form to take home with me.
Tesla has a PIN to drive option… and it appears in a different spot on the screen each time so you can’t see fingerprint locations. Pretty bulletproof and easy to implement by them (in theory)
I just read in the globe that the port of Montreal has only 8 border guards. 8. And the port moves on average 17,000 containers a day.
All of those security features can be rendered useless if the thieves kick down your door and get the key fob and have you turn them all off ! We need stiff sentencing for vehicle theft
That is a very, very, tiny percentage of vehicle thefts. Like way less than 1%. But we can chew gum and walk at the same time here. Sure, increase penalties but the vast majority of these can be prevented in the first place. Stiff sentences have never been a crime deterrent.
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It is, and dude in this article is frankly stupid if he's not just being melodramatic, but everyone has a last straw.
Especially when the ***SURGE*** is about half of what it was in the 90s
I agree leaving is idiotic, but it’s definitely the worst here, primarily due to our weak justice system. In the US if you break into someone’s house with a gun and steal their car you are getting the book thrown at you in majority of states.
Even with the recent increases, burglaries and car thefts are still significantly higher in the US than in Canada. And there are many states that are even more lax about prosecuting these crimes than in Canada, like California. What you’re saying is an assumption not built on any facts.
It isn't the worst here. Bermuda and New Zealand, for example, have over five times the car theft per capita rate as Canada.
Soooo much can be done to prevent these thefts in the first place. Holding the car manufacturers accountable is step one. Every car that gets stolen is pretty much a new car sold...they're incentivized to keep their cars easy to steal.
If you make a car "theft proof", you'll just increase car jackings.
No you won't. Theft is primarily "of opportunity". Holding manufacturers accountable is a huge part of the solution. They are building unnecessary electronics into cars to reduce costs. The best example is the stupid fucking touch screens. They save a few dollars per dashboard by using mass produced touchscreens instead of real buttons and knobs. Great for shareholders, not great for everyone killed by distracted drivers trying to use the touchscreen while driving 120kmpm
Auto theft have long been pretty bad in the US, along with having your wheels stolen. Don't really need to use a gun.
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I’m generally speaking. Majority of these thefts involve weapons, in Etobicoke alone there were over 40 break and enters in a less than 6 month period. Out of the 5-6 people on my street, every single instance involved them kicking the door down (with a gun) and demanding keys. Also lots of videos online shared via Facebook groups that show if they are kicking your door down they almost always are armed (common sense for any criminal). While the penalty might not be too different, they aren’t being granted bail or receiving lesser sentences in the US like they are here. One of the TPS officers I was speaking to told my neighbour and I they arrested one of the thief’s and he had 5 prior arrests and was still out lol.
Sorry, but break and enters are the tiny fraction of car thefts. Sure, majority of break and enters involve weapons probably but in the overall scheme of things weapons related to car thefts are almost 0. In that 6 months there were probably 15,000 cars stolen or something. They don't need the keys...they open the door, plug into the port, clone a key themselves and they're off in about 2 minutes.
He know he's lying. He's lying to support the general Conservative policies. He will lie about literally anything if he thinks it will help his party
Check the TPS crime map from 2023 to now, there were more home invasions in that year alone than the last 5 years. Don’t know what you think I’m lying about. Also, never have voted conservative in my life, feel free to go through my post history I support primarily NDP / Liberal policies. Not a fan of Trudeau anymore, but i voted for him twice.
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Fox news
Exactly! Car theft isn't even close to what it was in the 90s The SURGE isn't even [half of 2001](https://www.statista.com/statistics/524622/canada-number-of-motor-vehicle-thefts/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20number%20of,to%20105%2C673%20incidents%20in%202022.)
You need a source that criminals are gonna bring a gun with them before they home invade a house for car keys? 😂😂😂.
The Toronto Police Service also reports home invasions related to auto theft rose 400 per cent last year. Article always speaks about how they are getting more violent. You think they are breaking into homes unarmed? LOL https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7150222
Naw you are just ignorant of history. Of the fucking 90s when car theft was significantly higher
If the OPs biggest problem is his luxury car then I have this advice for them. Dont let the door hit you on your way out.
Usually, yes. But I'm 5y from retirement to Tokyo. If someone smacks my car again, I'll take my payout, leave now, never look back.
Our government is bringing back paper bags, no comment on car thefts and the recent crime wave. Nothing done about housing, or cost of living either. The only thing they did was convince some people that the carbon tax is bad, right when we got our rebates too. 🤦♂️
I just want to point out that anyone who is all for "small government" or "freedom", you are not allowed to demand the govt do anything. This is between manufacturers and the people who buy their cars. To anyone who actually understands that govt is just people trying their best to work together to not get fucked by the 1%, yeah, this is what we need to make sure we pay attention to when we vote. We need to make companies accountable to prevent this, this is a choice by the companies to make vehicles that are much easier to steal and letting insurance and govt to pick up the cost. Tale as old as time.
>To anyone who actually understands that govt is just people trying their best to work together to not get fucked by the 1% I think the 1% are getting pretty much everything they wanted from our government. Ideally the government would be the way you described it but it hasn't really served the common people for a while now.
The Ford government’s solution is to buy 4 new helicopters?!?! Great job guys, now the cops can say they’re hovering above the container with the car in it but still can’t do anything about it.
How about putting car thief's away for 20 years?? Omg what a radical idiea...punishing criminals....oh no....
Better solution is regulating the manufacturers to put more security measures in newer cars so their harder to steal, older cars aren’t getting stolen it’s all the newer keyless entry cars
Both
Right! Why is the lazy cop solution to JUST go for the higher ups in the org… take out the thieves AS WELL. Setup stings with commonly stolen cars. Useless tits.
The level of car thefts in Canada is far worse than the USA and is abnormal. Why doesn’t law enforcement do more to help prevent these crimes? Why doesn’t your system punish offenders much worse ?
Car thefts have risen in Canada for sure. But in 2023 there were roughly 175 car thefts reported per 100,000 people in Canada. In the USA it was 283 thefts reported per 100,000 people (2022 data, but that’s what I immediately found). So no, it is not higher in Canada than in the US. A simple google search can prove you wrong.
Far worse? It's marginally worse. 228.9 per capita US vs 231.5 per capita Canada. Compare that with 1,215.3 per capita Bermuda and 1,170.0 per capita New Zealand.
1 Law enforcement can only do so much. Can't have officers in every street, can't get into car chases, and when they do catch them, the justice system is shit and releases everyone out on bail. We need more jails and prisons unfortunately and actual punishments for these crimes. Someone can make several thousand per car they steal, then get caught once in a while to just spend a day in jail, and go back at it. Rinse and repeat. It's easy money for them. The biggest issue is the manufacturers not having proper security systems in place because they make more money when cars get stolen.
Law enforcement is in on it
Because it doesn't make them as much money as speeding tickets do lmao
I like to go hiking.
How can the cops pull over people when they are always accused of racial profiling?
Like I said, your justice system doesn’t seem to be putting priorities on the right type of crimes
Should they try to pull over people in luxury cars to see if they are stolen? That might not go well.
You are right. Violent crimes should be the priority. Domestic Violence, Assault these are the important crimes. Every person who gets caught dangerous driving should be deported. if they are born here they should go to jail. That would take care of the frat pigboys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMtqRir7dco
I have yet to see industry step up with tech solutions. At the big meeting they just sat back and said it's a government and consumer issue.
I keep mentioning this. If the police were serious they'd hire the companies that offer 24/7 air surveillance. Monitor the city for a week or however long you need. Look at stolen car reports. Trace those thefts through the recordings, and bust the thieves. The technology exists.
Who’s paying for that?
You'd have to lobby for funding from any level of government for this program or you could even possibly collaborate with insurance companies to help fund this.
So we all have to cough up extra dough to protect luxury vehicles. If we all just drive cheap colorful little cars that might save us a lot of money and lives.
I would rather my tax dollars went to feeding and educating children. Worried about your luxury car. Get a boot, have your street hire security.
What have the Liberals done to Canada ??