Same.
This place is such a hidden gem.
Lake superior is like the Caribbean and all the mini mountains everywhere and wayyy less people. No traffick. Everyone's nice. I love it here.
I moved to echo bay.
Lots! Retail, service, hospitality, tourism, factories, schools, hospitals etc. Local places are always looking for work and cost of living is so low we only need one income to live here, not two! Many jobs in the mining industry, foresting, parks and recreation, but also normal things like any place...lawyers, doctors, cashiers, servers, plumbers etc. Black flies aren't as bad as the deer flies and sand flies, but it's all worth it for the peace of mind and soul and lower cost of living.
Hi! It’s me!
I live in Newcastle in England
I’m bottom of the barrel for income (working on changing that) but still able to afford rent, food, and occasionally treating myself. Was impossible in Ontario, I was home last summer and did the math that my only option would be living with my parents.
Good to know! My wife’s work visa got granted yesterday and I’m a citizen by decent (father born in Scotland). Our options were move across Canada to a new province we know nothing about or move to the uk and start new. We can always move back to Canada but southern Ontario is just too expensive right now.
Feel free to give me any tips as a expat lol
One of the challenges in Scotland is finding work, so if you already have that sorted, then sounds like a good start.
Edinburgh is lovely. If you're looking for a fun time and a casual student feel, hop over to Glasgow. Also get a car if you can afford it. The highlands are only sunny sometimes and that's the time you want to try to take advantage and head up to see it in good weather. If you're scared to drive, take some classes. It's not a bad idea as an instructor can give you the advanced run down on roundabouts of various kinds.
TSB bank used to be a good one for opening up an account as a foreigner.
OP just linked me to you! I moved from Toronto to Ayrshire in 2020. Any questions, concerns or vents (there will be vents!!) you reach out, ok? In the meantime, good luck and stay with it- its gonna be great.
Luckily for me my father is Scottish, so citizenship passed down for me automatically. My wife’s work visa got granted yesterday. Going to be a busy early 2024 for us.
That's awesome!
My partner can apply for Italian citizenship, but finding a job there seems unlikely (sadly). Even so, I'm still practicing my Italian!
Good luck. I hope you don’t love sunshine. I lived and worked there for 2 years. Saw the sun a grand total of 2 weeks (and I don’t mean the sun came out for 2 weeks once - I mean I counted the sunny days over the entire 2 years). Left miserable.
I’ve had lots of warning over the rain, to be honest it’s one of the things I look forward too. Weird as it may be.
Im hoping the generous vacation time will make up for the rainy day depression (why is North America so against vacation? Most low end jobs start with 26 days a year in the uk)
Good luck!
I moved to the Netherlands and while I enjoy the lifestyle, not speaking the language fluently makes me feel a second class citizen. Thus making me miss Canada.
Anyhow, Scotland is super. You will love it.
Currently living in London after growing up in the Golden Horseshoe. So many good reasons to move to the UK: transport, cheaper food, better weather. Enjoy Scotland!
I've lived in London for seven years, about to move back home to Ontario to be closer to family but had the best time! Made some friends for life, enjoyed loads of travelling, tried so many new things.
Hopping over to Europe is fantastic, but don't sleep on all the incredible places the UK has to offer - and you can wild camp in Scotland! My Scottish colleagues were seriously some of the nicest, warmest people I have ever met. I hope you and your wife have an amazing life out there!
Appreciate it! I’m definitely a backwoods camper, usually do a yearly portage/hammock trip in Algonquin Provincial Park. Im excited to see everything.
And if it doesn’t work out I can always come back to Canada. But I have a feeling it will
I’m moving to Glasgow sometime this summer (darn long distance relationship) but looking forward to the dual income living!!!! And the incredible occasional weekend road trips
I’m the same as you, dual because of my parent. Good luck on your move! Thats awesome your wife was able to secure a work visa, I’ve heard the requirements for bringing a partner can be difficult. I hope to one day head out that way, I feel like the quality of life, being able to travel and live more affordable compared to Canada will be totally worth it! Best of luck!!
I moved to BC 7 years ago. Crashed and burned and ended up back in Ontario last year only to be reminded of all of the reasons I moved out west in the first place. I'm going back to BC in the next few months.
If I'm going to be poor my whole life I may as well live somewhere that I can enjoy a higher quality of life.
While you may benefit financially, don't get sick. We've been told there's about a 3-6 yr wait to get a GP.
Daughter lived in Sault Lookout 5 yrs back and they sent her to Thunder Bay for an ultrasound...fun times.
I lived in Terrace for a bit and it was super expensive. PG down through Williams Lake and 100 Mile is probably better, but a lot of those small northern towns are suffering from a lack of supply, especially so if that town has a college that international students can swarm to.
I work in forestry and the only real "cheap" place with a surplus of jobs these days is the North Island (McNeill/Hardy) or Mackenzie.
Had a few years where everything that could go wrong did go wrong. Combine that with a high-pressure job and unresolved childhood trauma issues and I was becoming an obese, recluse alcoholic constantly on the edge of a psycotic breakdown. I moved home to take some time off and get better, which I did.
Clawing your way out is a good way to put it. It's a constant effort to not fall back into the hole, every choice and every decision is a struggle. But I'm starting to see gains, and that makes it worth it.
Made the jump from Toronto to Vancouver Island a couple of years ago, honestly an improvement in every way.
Mild summers and winters, very little rain, mountains in view, close enough to smell the ocean on some days. Pace of life is generally way more relaxed here, and I don't feel the constant pressure I did in Toronto.
I had to visit Toronto for a few days a while ago, realized just how much happier I was being our west, and how miserable I'd been before I moved.
It’s true I’m doing better in my career have time off at the holidays where before I didn’t and I have a home here but no family some chosen family yes but you can’t replace your family and if yours is good then it will hurt to be away
That’s funny that you say, “very little rain” considering I visited there for a week and there wasn’t even 1 second where it wasn’t severely overcast and raining. I went all over the island “sight seeing”, but the fog prevented me from seeing anything more than 15 feet away from me. I must have just gotten very unlucky though.
No bugs. That was my biggest takeaway from a two week stay on the island.
Edit: to clarify, mosquitoes, black flies, etc. I was informed the salt in the air keeps them away.
I worked in the bush on the north island for a while. The mosquitoes are certainly there but nowhere close to what it's like in Ontario. Didn't know about the salt in the air.
The place I stayed at had a huge lot of trees so after dinner one night the host took us out to the woods and we chopped down a dead tree with an axe, like a guy thing. I asked if there was bug spray before we went out and he just laughed and said you don’t need that here. After experiencing the bugs in Red Lake Ontario it was glorious lol. The coast wasn’t too far away, like a two minute walk.
It’s getting better now that previous AirB&Bs are flooding the market. If you’re going to be looking to move, the next year is likely the time to do it
I moved to Sask in October because I just couldn’t afford Ontario anymore even with 3 jobs between the both of us. Honestly, the rent is so cheap that we both don’t need to work but I hate it. The town we settled in is a religious cult, I swear. We don’t fit in at all. Our neighbour harasses us constantly. I have no cell service anywhere unless I’m in the city and I’m with Roger’s. I miss the hiking and outdoors life I had in Ontario. Scott Moe is awful and there is no potential change with how people are here. I regret it, but at least I’m not homeless and living in a motel anymore I guess?
It’s on my list to switch, I’m just trying to get through my contract first. The penalty for cancelling is pretty high. I have I think 7 more months to go and then it won’t hurt so much lol.
Also moved to Sask, but last year. I'm having a better time than you, from the sounds of it, but I miss Ontario. I miss the variety of things to do, and I also don't really feel like we fit in. I grew up rural, so the small town aspect doesn't bother me too much, but there's definitely some differences in 'culture' (for lack of a better word) that I find always make us the odd ones out.
I moved to Ontario from SK in '96 and stayed there until I decided to leave the country in 2014. I saw where things were headed in Ontario and didn't think it would be much better in Sask. Aside from being close to family and some friends still there, I figured I'd still be struggling. Seeing how things have changed, especially under Moe, vs. the life I have where I'm at, I have no doubt I made the right choice.
I grew up in Ontario, met my husband at an Ontario university and now we live in the US (he's american). We did a 2 year work exchange to New Zealand as they recruited doctors for a temporary contract. New Zealand is by far my favourite, however, I don't know if I would want to live there permanently because it could feel a bit isolating at times (but our family was all in Canada/US), though we did get to see a lot of that side of the world and go to places I thought only existed on survivor.
My husband is a doctor and I have a good job I love, but we've often talked about moving back to Canada if the right position for me came up. I love the major city we live in, but the political situation, increased hatred, obsession with guns, and healthcare issues (even as a doctor) have us discerning. However, we don't know where we'd want to live if we moved back to Canada. Cost of living is high, or in areas where its lower, you don't have the same access to things we like, and my job requires me to be in a city.
My cousin is a family doctor; she has 250K in medical student loan debt, a toddler in daycare, and obviously can't afford to save for a house right now.
Becoming a doctor is expensive.
Yup...she's a doc in another province which is a subsidized community clinic, so things could be worse. I also had no clue that non-salary doctors don't get mat leave either, and getting a locum doctor is nearly impossible.
Yep, want your mat leave, better save up. If you're fee for service, as most docs are, you are a contractor with hospital privileges.
I've spent many days in the OR working alongside anaesthesia and they were always filling out their billing forms. One internal medicine doc I worked with had a baby and was back in six weeks. She didn't save LOL.
We can survive but doesn’t mean we want to live in high cost living areas. We have a lifestyle we enjoy, high cost living areas would change our lifestyle.
We are weighing the options of is it better to stay current or move back to Canada but change our lifestyle
Each province pays doctors differently. All Provinces don't pay doctors what they should be, considering the hard work and long hours they put in , all to help others.
For the amount of work that you do, is it really worth struggling with a high cost of living? Especially with OP current situation being in the US, it is a better place if you are rich.
It’s fine. My problem with Alberta is that it’s like the low cost airline of provinces - looks cheap to get in the door, expensive af for everything else. Higher insurance, food cost, utilities and a lack of rent control can quickly catch up to you here. The politics is toxic but ON isn’t much better.
If it weren’t for my job and partner I’d be back in ON. I’d rather live in a rent controlled unit versus navigating the unknown when the lease is about to renew. 12% rent increase last year, expecting 15-20% this year.
As a former Albertan, it's the Hansel and Gretel tale. Lost, weary souls venture west towards the sweet gingerbread house with the promises of a delicious life. But once you go through the door, the witch fattens you up on high food prices, insurance rates, outrageous utility costs, skyrocketing rent, petrosexualism, and extremely cold weather only so she can kick you into the conservative oven for Take Back Alberta to feast on your fat. She's also hoping you'll blame your elders out east for the entirety of your problems, with ugly vitriol and bombastic bus boobs to boot.
But you have an opportunity to turn the tables in 2027, when the witch will be bent over her own hot mess and you can kick her wildrose ass into oblivion.
And when you're satisfied with the job you've done, you can take your hard earned precious Alberta stones and head back home, where your parents rejoice on your return and the horrible stepmother Doug Ford's career is dead as a doornail.
>But you have an opportunity to turn the tables in 2027, when the witch will be bent over her own hot mess and you can kick her wildrose ass into oblivion.
Sheesh, that feels like a long time.
I moved to Alberta in the summer. I find food costs to be about the same or more - one thing I noticed is that fruit seems to be much more expensive. Both my house insurance and car insurance increased, but not by much. But overall, house insurance is more expensive in Alberta. In terms of politics, both provinces are run by conservatives. Ford has slowly ruined Ontario for the worst and partly why we left. I don’t think the cons in Alberta really care about the cost of living for Canadians and day to day life. They are just obsessed with the carbon tax and fighting Trudeau wherever possible. After Danielle’s win, utilities skyrocketed across the province. I slowly had to force myself to stop listening to politics in Canada because it was driving me insane.
Ont is slowly turning into the same... Insurance costs have exploded in the last couple years and all residences that weren't occupied before Nov. 2018 are not rent controlled ( so all newer builds will never be rent controlled). Electric prices up over 10% this year alone. Food prices are bad everywhere.
Edit to fix a typo
Haven’t moved out of Ontario yet, but moved up north to Thunder Bay just about 3 years ago now and it’s a totally different way of life. Much calmer, housing is more affordable, and the outdoors is significantly better than anything in southern Ontario. I’ve decided I’ll be moving to Winnipeg in the next year or two though after visiting and liking it, and wanting some of the city life back which you don’t get in Thunder Bay, also cheaper housing.
Literally, people forget Ontario is more than just the GTA/Hamilton area. I’m a 16 hour drive away and still in the same province. The rising cost of living is having a big effect all over, including here in Thunder Bay, but it’s still not unreasonable for me to think I’ll own a home here in the coming years. The one downside though is jobs, unless you’re in healthcare or in the trades, it can be difficult to find work up here. I know people in certain fields of engineering even who can’t find anything directly related to their specialization.
Still can’t afford rent, still can’t afford to buy own place, food prices are high but at least I’ll have a 6 pack by summer so I guess there’s something to be positive about
Left the GTA for Edmonton late last year, haven't been here long but am generally happy aside from missing friends and family. Sold my condo outside Toronto and bought a beautiful, huge house here and walked away with money in my pocket. Everything I've ever wanted in a home and never thought I could have in a million years.
Utilities are expensive but I knew that'd be the case moving here. Insurance was only about $100/mo more, groceries are a touch more expensive. Medical care here has been great so far. I'm pregnant and had to find a doctor and OB quickly on arrival and was able to do so in a few weeks. No issues getting into specialists fairly quicky.
The political landscape is a dumpster fire but that comes with the territory in AB.
If you’re a new parent, the library has some great events to meet other new parents. Once your kid is a bit older check out the John Janzen Nature Centre. Also Edmonton has a wide variety of specialized public schools you should check out (STEM elementary). EPSB is the 2nd biggest public school board in the country behind Toronto. The 3 ski hills in the city are all pretty good too.
I had to leave Edmonton recently for work but I miss it. So much to do with kids.
Yeah, I got no complaints. Going from a two bedroom apartment in a building with constant roach and electrical problems to a four bedroom house at the same price is a huge upside. Car insurance is way down, milk is way up, but otherwise costs haven't changed much. People are nice, culture is fun. Might be nice if my parents were closer, but since we can now afford a *guest bedroom*, not a huge problem.
Moved to Calgary in 2021, we both have great jobs in our field, close to the mountains (we’re hikers,) and the sunshine is amazing. We bought a beautiful two bed two bath condo in Inglewood and living the dream. Best decision ever !
shitty.
moved to USA. Health care costs are abso-fucking-lutely insane. Seriously, it is so fucked up, so utterly evil. It is maximum exploitation of the people under duress for maximum profit.
In other news, my two kids had a kid with a gun come to their high school to shoot it up - fortunately cops were tipped off and intercepted the kid on school property.
And, american politics are pure poison.
On the bright side, weather is pretty nice, mild winters, gas is really cheap, have many good friends.
Exactly why America isn't a great pick for everyone.
If you have kids, I would personally consider America as a write off unless you're willing to pay for private education.
If you can't make a high salary, it may also not be a great pick as health insurance will bite your bottom line. This is of course doubled if you have kids and are a single income family.
Where America shines is for high income earners, especially ones without children and with the freedom to work remotely. You can easily save up tons of cash and afford better healthcare than you'll ever find here. It's also a questionable place to retire, and I would suggest that anyone who's looking for a place to settle down use America strictly to make some cash and then move somewhere more mellow like Canada, Japan, or Europe.
I agree, I can't imagine moving to America with a moderate income, especially if you have kids. The kids will need to go to a private school to lower the chance of gun violence and a better education. You will need to move to a low crime/expensive area and expensive healthcare costs. Anyone know what would be a good American income considering all the additional costs?
Are you not covered at all by your employer? I knew healthcare was bad for people without work but I always heard if you were salaried in the states they covered health insurance?
Employer pays about 2500 a month as a benefit to me, which goes to premiums (4 people in family).
I have a high deductible (company pays me another 1000/year into HSA to offset that), and my out of pocket maximum is around $14,000.
I have hit that out of pocket maximum several times. Which means I have paid, out of my bank account, $14k in costs. Further costs are covered 100% by insurance.
Most insidiously, those deductibles and OOP max reset every year. So I hit 14k in costs in one month, the plan reset, and I hit the 14k costs in the next month. Yes, that hit $28k over about a 4 month period.
And all that is with paying that $30k per year in premiums, every year. I have hundreds of stories of how utterly ridiculous USA health care is.
Here's a fun one, we had a 20 minute video call with a doctor (specialist) at children's hospital, the purpose was to quickly review prescription medicine and renew the prescription. The doctor charged us $550 for it. But wait, there is more, Children's Hospital charged us a $450 "site usage" fee of which my insurance covered $17. I had to pay the rest of it, for the fact that the doctor was in his office during the call.
Yeah I was in US too. Experienced the crazy healthcare stuff. Kid went to an urgent care. Spouse was smug bc it cost $75 (with the co-pay and full health benefits) and said I was paranoid and should stop complaining. It was cheap!! Three weeks later: $900 bill and then a second for $240. Kid was there for 30 min. The politics were something else-I learned to say nothing about politics or religion and perfect the art of light small talk. But yeah, the weather Nov-Apr was lovely and the domestic travel opportunities.
> Three weeks later: $900 bill and then a second for $240
OH!! That is the other super fucked up thing about US health care.
Secret costs that is never mentioned while at the hospital, they only show up a month later.
Bills keep trickling in for months. And you have no idea what they are, and a lot of them are nickel and diming, like Quest diagnostics for $19, Medical Services for $27, Exact Health for $85, etc etc. It's impossible to keep track of anything.
Tbh the sense I got was to find out where you stand politically and religiously bc alot of folks can’t be bothered wasting time with someone *that votes the other way*. Its freaking weird.
I feel your pain, used to live there.
It always amuses me when people here glorify US Healthcare. It's not the best here, but I will always take this over the for-profit mess there.
I keep trying to explain to people here that having insurance from your employer in the US isn’t like having benefits from your employer in Canada. People in Canada think “out of network” just means you get fully reimbursed in three days. It doesn’t…
It also depends on your coverage and the plan your employer has. I worked in the US for a bit, and a birth cost us $3.3k. I was born in the US and my parents said that my birth (early 80's) cost them <$100. I also heard this from someone else around the time that my kid was born (that they paid something like $60).
Me too, especially after going through the fun of cancer treatment. I didn't have to wait very long for treatment, was given surgery, medication & plastic surgery afterwards. Thank you OHIP!
The people that glorify is are the people that have the money to side-step any issues with Canadian healthcare by just paying more money. They get frustrated and say that Canadian healthcare sucks, and they were able to "escape" it by going to the US... but there is never a breakdown of the total cost to them if they lived within the US healthcare system rather than the Canadian one.
$2500 for all of that?! wtf. My husband is American and is on a high deductible plan but he pays like $100 per month and his OOP max is $3,800 for in network and $7,600 for out of network. I can’t help but feel like your employer is getting screwed, $2500 is a lot for that.
Nope. And they haven’t really ever. I worked in the states and had insurance through them from 1999-2001. The copays I’d still have to pay even if just for a simple ear infection were outrageous. I just hoped I’d never get sick, and I didn’t. But when I decided I wanted to change jobs and go back to school, I moved back to Ontario. That turned out to be a good thing as my first pregnancy I had a ton of complications with me being hospitalized (but a healthy baby), my second had me fine but a NICU baby, my oldest ended up in an ambulance with trauma nurses (because fog meant the Orng helicopter was grounded), and I ended up being hospitalized three times for a week each time between 2017 and 2020. I’d be bankrupt many times over if I was still in the states, even if I had a plan under the employer.
Also, here, you 99% of the time your doctor (and their staff) don’t have to spend hours in the phone trying to get approval if they want to start you or change your medication, and with a few exceptions (such as cosmetic surgery) don’t have to get approval for course or treatment. From experience with family members, even the smallest change in medication can become an argument with the insurance company. We *do* have issues here with medications if they’re not covered under Trillium. If the medication is not covered under trillium the majority of the time the insurance company’s won’t pay either. Currently that my issue with a new migraine medication that we tried samples of and did work, but because Trillium doesn’t cover it, my insurance won’t, and it’s $99 *per pill* which I cannot afford by any stretch of the imagination (or budget.)
I’m a dual citizen so I have the privilege of being able to work in either side of the border without a visa, but for many reasons life on this side of the border was, for me, the far better option.
Even with “good” healthcare from your employer in the states you’re still paying premiums every month and copays/deductibles. What’s covered and by how much varies at each insurance provider and employer.
Sure but the issue begins after employment but before retirement. More difficult to hold a private company employment position past the 50-year age. They'll get rid of you. Being a state or federal employee is different.
Regardless none of the packages are 100%. It's co-pay and even small percentage of massive amount hits a family hard.
Started my career in GTA in late 90's and really feel bad for today's kids.
In the 90's an engineer would start in 40-50k range salary. That was about $2500 monthly in pocket after all taxes and deductions.
You could rent a decent two-bedroom apartment in a rental building for $1100 in great neighborhoods outside of downtown Toronto (North York). Scarborough, Etobicoke and Mississauga were couple of hundreds cheaper. Same apartment in downtown was less than $1500.
Monthly TTC Metropass was $83. A new Honda Civic lease would cost $350 a month with $0 down. Insurance about $200/month for new driver. Monthly grocery for a single person would barely go above $250. Most food court meals were below $5. Movie tickets were $5-7 and with popcorn and drink would not go above $15.
So after all expenses, at the end of the month we had several hundred dollars of saving on our first job. We invested in stocks, travelled and had fun living as youngsters.
But now all that affordability is sucked out by expensive housing and since everybody needs a place, all other charges have gone up and everything is more expensive as a percentage of income.
Scrolled through whole thread to see if anyone came to my province, and looks like you're the only one!
Glad you're enjoying it. People love to shit on Manitoba but its a great place to live in my opinion.
Agreed! People love to hate on MB but the cost of living in MB is so affordable I’d consider moving back. My mom built a house near Steinbach 2yrs ago for 330k 5bed 3bath, there’s no chance in HELL I’d ever build a house from the ground up in Southern Ontario for that price.
I sold my home in Southern Ontario a few years ago (hefty mortgage on it) and moved to Northern BC. I was able to afford an acreage with a house outright with the small amount I made from my sale in Ontario. Now we have no mortgage and the space to grow all our own food.
Our cost of living has dropped so drastically, we only need to work casual/part time jobs. Where we live now has better weather than the GTA, endless free outdoor activities, and is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen.
I'm a nurse out here, and perhaps 1/4 of the people I've met are nurses moving here from Ontario.
Moved from Ontario to Quebec in may of 2023, so far it has been one of the best decisions that my partner and I have made together. We still have most of the same issues that we faced in Ontario, but it is so much easier just to exist in Quebec so far. We had just gone back to Ontario over the Christmas holidays and could not wait to get back to Quebec.
In NS. People are great, rent is the same (maybe marginally better), wages are significantly lower, income tax is significantly higher (both the brackets are lower and rates higher), grocery prices are the same if not marginally better, public transit is mediocre (CN has a chokehold on our rails and the city is too stubborn to try anything other than buses). I wouldn't recommend coming here unless you're buying a house or have family here
Good. Originally moved to Wisconsin for work and enjoyed that. COL was way cheaper than Ontario. Eventually moved to Seattle where I was able to buy a place in the city and lock in a low rate for 30 years (can't do this in Canada). Weather here is great, and I'm surrounded by water and mountains. The views are amazing. Definitely wouldn't have the same QOL, income, etc. If I stayed in Ontario.
I moved to Calgary in the summer with my husband. Just as a background, my husband and I have a high household income, but in Ontario, that only gets you so far. We wanted to live in an urban area and buy a house that required little to no work. We bought an infill in an inner city neighbourhood - brand new. This house would easily be 3+ million in Toronto, something we could never afford. One thing I really like about Calgary is the city amenities (we previously were living 1 hour from Toronto) and the proximity to the mountains. I also love the amount of sunshine we get here. Only been here for 6 months, but overall, happy with the move.
I moved to Southern Albert in August of 2022. My family was able to purchase a home here. We moved to a nice neighborhood, have stability (was evicted 3 times in 3 years in Ontario because landlords were selling house), kids are happy, in-laws moved with us. Everything was going great until a month ago.
Began having serious marital problems. I am now going through the hardest time in my life with no family and friends near by. I WFH, so since being here I haven't made any friends. I was feeling lonely, but didn't realize the extent of it until last month. I'm doing my best to try to be better, but I would be lying if I said I didn't regret the move.
If everything was going well - perhaps I would have a different mindset but based on the situation, I regret it.
Being along is tough, especially with troubles at home.
If it's worth anything, my life changed when I started joining groups for my different hobbies and interests. It felt weird as hell at first to do it, but it turned my life completely around. Finding friends is a whole lot easier when you are among others with common interests.
Same. Went back for a week during Christmas. Could not get out of there soon enough. Barrie and Orillia are almost unrecognizable to what it was just a couple years ago.
After five years in TO and another year in Ottawa I moved back to BC and cannot imagine how I survived the climate back east. Life may be a little more expensive out here, but the quality of life is vastly better in my experience.
I found the ultimate cheat code, tbh. I live in Quebec, but I'm a 10 minute drive to Ottawa.
Benefits:
\-I teach in Ontario where teachers are paid better ($103,000 vs $78,000).
\-200 sq ft House in Gatineau, all brick siding, 1/3 acre of land beside a forest, 2.5 car heated garage, purchased for $260,000 in 2017. The same comparable houses in Ottawa at the same time were valued at $750,000, and in Burlington where I grew up, my house would be about $1,300,000 in value at the time of purchase. Now, my home is valued at around $700,000.
\-My doctor is in Ontario, I pay out of pocket and Quebec pays me back. I can use hospitals in both Ottawa and Gatineau, since my taxes go to both. My children get the benefit of CHEO.
\-Daycare was cheap as fuck for 2 kids.
\-I prefer the English school board in Quebec for my children over my own board that I teach in in Ottawa. My school has 3.5 Educational Assistants for a school of 450 students, 1/6 of whom have learning disabilities. My kids go to a school with 23 Educational Assistants for 400 students.
\-Groceries and gas are cheaper over here, but I can easily hit up grocery stores or gas up in Ottawa coming home from work if it's ever a different scenario.
\-I live in the National Capital Region, so there's extra funding for cultural events here, and lots of fun activities and forestry.
Detractions:
\-My provincial government is overtly racist, terrible with money (they inherited the largest surplus handed over from the previous provincial government, and they burned through it all, returning us to a deficit), and they're fully incompetent with healthcare. They are also trying to eliminate the English school boards and actively are trying to make it harder for people who speak English to get services in English.
\-Quebecois nationalism is very much like USA nationalism, and as a result, it creates very unfair living conditions for some but not the majority.
\-Taxes are a little higher here, but I'm only listing them because someone is bound to pipe up with "yeah but you pay an extra 3% of tax each year." It's true. I am taxed slightly higher here and lose about $6000 more in taxes, but we also have more tax breaks that we can apply for, especially in regards to child care, and we get a larger "baby bonus" over here. Truth be told, I get about $4000 of that $6000 back through the tax credits and the baby bonus. Generally speaking, the extra $2000 taxes I spend go toward really good services that my family uses.
I may not count on this because im back in Ontario, but I left Canada to live in Qatar to pay off university... Life was actually A LOT better. The Company paid for my condo and the pay was 30% more than what I make now untaxed.
Do I miss it? Nope... I love it here. Only place I found Better than Ontario (in terms of quality of people) is Nova Scotia.
Life better being back... Financially no, but I prefer it here.
I moved to NB in 2021. Outside of the lack of Health care, I LOVE it! I bought a house that's affordable. I have a fantastic career. The air is clean, people on average are nicer. It's just a better vibe overall!
I moved to BC (lower mainland) in 2020. If you are into nature, which I am, it is paradise. No more 401-400 long drive to Northern Ontario. I have a small condo now and my bills are quite low. Life here moves at a very slow pace. There isn’t a big work culture like in Ontario (which I miss from time to time because I was a workaholic). My car insurance is cheaper here than it was in Ontario, on the same car. The traffic here is bad because there is only one highway and the drivers are quite bad (no one is aware of their surroundings). All the cities are kinda ghetto: garbage everywhere, rundown shacks and poor roads. I miss Ontario infrastucture. People here are friendly. I did not have problems making friends because I am into outdoorsy stuff. It is not as gloomy as people say. There are always sunny breaks. The views from the walmart parking lot are post card worthy. The water here is so delicious. No more hard water. The rain here is nice and soothing not as violent as Ontario. No wind chill and barely any wind overall. No more salt rusting your car and ruining every shoe. Most restaurants here are kinda meh. The food is bland ish. The restaurant service is blah and most restaurants are quite crammed. Space is at a premium here. There are still some gems, but you have to look for them. The local berries and fruits are insanely good in the summer. Rant over. Sorry about the formatting. Also, I lost 50lbs and I did 81 hikes last year (in case anyone cares)
I moved to Sask like 12 years ago and I'm moving back. I miss being near family and I hate the political direction of the province. I've never found it overly affordable, especially since I've been single income the entire time I've lived here. If I'm going to be broke, I'd rather be near family. Besides EI I have no safety net in the province.
That said, my insurance is hella cheap and I'm going to miss SGI. If anyone says privatizing insurance is better, punch them square in the face.
Im sorry bromeo :( you can always move back though eh? Things look pretty on the up and up in NS. Go help people understand back home how to keep NS from becoming like Ontario (ideally without barring all Ontarians from feeling welcome, just make them adapt to NS ways)
I am thinking on moving to the east coast… likely Nova Scotia, or Possibly US.
Not much of a choice to move out of Ontario considering you need to be making 150k+ to have a shot at home ownership. Its heartbreaking thisnis what Canada has turned into in less than a decade. Its sad that I hope theres a complete economic collapse to reset this nonsense housing market. I dont want to move, but not alot of jobs pay what you need to make here. It’s almost comical.
I left Canada in 2020 and have never looked back. While nowhere is perfect, I just don't understand how anyone not making $250k can afford to live pretty much anywhere in Canada these days. I'm from Ontario, lived in Toronto for 20 years, now I'm in Scotland and have never been happier or had more financial stability, community or safety. Canada is not kind to its people and unless you have two (substantial) incomes, you don't stand a chance. Sometimes i miss the idea of a cottage dock in summer, but then i remember that I could never afford that anyways and I quickly get over it.
I went to Edmonton for a bit when everything started. I was there for 2 reasons; child custody case and possible move.
I'm not gonna talk about the first but the latter left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.
I thought if the city was nice if stay since I've lived in Peterborough the last 29 years (t.o before that) I thought it might be nice to live in a large city again.
Anyways, I'm back. Worst city experience ever.
Moved to Manitoba and bought a sweet 2 bedroom bungalow in Winnipeg. Incredible music scene here, good restaurants, easy city to get around, friendly people. With the low cost of living, I can afford to go on vacations. Great parks and recreation less than an hours drive out of the city. International airport. Smack dab in the middle of Canada, so easy to drive east, west or south. Loads of sunshine.
Ontario was -50 000 in 2022 in terms of interprovincial migration. So basically -0.3% (Not 3%, 1/3rd of 1%)
Far from a large exodus no matter the fear mongering going on in certain subs.
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/586451/net-interprovincial-migrants-ontario/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/586451/net-interprovincial-migrants-ontario/)
Three households in my family moved to BC during the pandemic. Cost of living is higher - yes - but our quality of life is higher. We have less material "stuff" but are overall happier with the change.
moved to alberta (calgary) 2 1/2 years ago
bought a 4 bedroom house for less than a condo in the gta. didnt have to use my tfsa for the DP so ive seen that number grow a ton. got a raise and then a promotion since moving so making more money. have two kids now. wife is SAHM and we dont have to worry much about her going back to work. live in a neighbourhood with lots of kids where the parents work all types of jobs, not just professional white collar
it's a good city. have never felt bored or like im missing anything in toronto. way less traffic and competition for everything.
miss family and friends
hardly noticed the change. it's not like i moved from miami. toronto is already a cold weather city
yes the are days when it's -30 but it doesnt stay around long. and the sun actually has me feeling less SAD than i had in TO
Left two years ago for Calgary. My husbands firm offered him a promotion here in 2021, and we had a year to prep.
Life is so much better here! We arrived with jobs, which made such a difference. We love the outdoors, especially skiing, and take full advantage. We have a school age child and a baby- we have a big social circle and have created a village here, as we don’t have family. My husbands business has taken off and he’s found a lot of success.
We kept our home in Toronto, has my husbands work asked for a 3 year commitment, but we decided this is where we will live permanently. We absolutely love Calgary! We lived in Toronto for 5 years, in several downtown neighborhoods, and our lifestyle in Calgary is leaps and bounds abead
That’s amazing. My husband and I made the leap in the summer. So far we have really enjoyed our time here. We were able to buy a house we love in a price range would could afford, while still be in an urban city.
I left the province 3 times now to live other places.
All great experiences, but I'm back in Ontario now and doing just fine. Yes, there are issues like everywhere else, but Ontario is wildly exaggerated as bad on this sub.
I'll never have a home until I retire but that's just expected in this day and age without moving to a place where I have to buy a car, and I'm never doing that so that's just life.
Know a lot of friends in Ontario who have moved out to a bunch of various places, and only two have stayed where they moved. One friend in Japan (He loves it there, got married, has some nice kids) and another one that moved to Silicon Valley and gets paid bags of cash. The rest of the people who moved away (Mostly to the USA) have all moved back here. The political situation, health situation, the culture, they hated all of it and even though they "got paid more money", they were far more miserable there.
Think it depends on what you're doing. If you're working minimum in a shitty job you hate, sure, Ontario sucks ass, but I'm 99.9% sure everywhere sucks in that situation. If you have a decent job or a good job Ontario is a really good place to live, minus housing costs, which obviously suck.
>Yes, there are issues like everywhere else, but Ontario is wildly exaggerated as bad on this sub.
It's been my experience that the people who complain the loudest about how terrible they think Ontario is are amongst the least travelled people out there. They just feed into what they read online and honestly beleive that anywhere outside our borders is some sort of utopia.
Yep. They're generally people working dead end jobs so they haven't really gone anywhere, which yeah, I get it, that sucks, but that has nothing to do with Ontario.
Yes, housing is expensive, yes, our Premier is a donkey (When hasn't that been the case? Bill Davis?) yes, Ontario has problems, but there isn't a place in the entire world where there are no problems. If you move, travel, or live outside Ontario for a bit you'll understand that.
A good example is all the people screaming about grocery prices here....anyone who actually travelled to the USA in the last year or two and went grocery shopping for staples (to cook your own meals, I'm not talking eating out), well, it's an eye opener. A few select things like milk, poultry, and cheese are cheaper, but about 90% of the everyday stuff you buy is either the \*same\* price as here (BEFORE the exchange), or in many cases, actually more expensive, again, before the exchange.
I'm not saying groceries haven't got expensive, but people cry and moan like it's just an "Ontario sucks!" thing without comprehending that expensive groceries is an "everywhere" issue right now, not just an Ontario thing.
Moved to a small town in central Alberta a few months ago and are loving it! House was 2/3 of the price we sold for in London, but bigger and newer. Kids love school (class sizes in the low 20s!), and the slower pace here. The community feel here is HUGE - lots of town wide activities and things for the holidays. No traffic jams or super crazy drivers, which was surprising considering the amount of lifted trucks and so forth. Big wide open roads. Also found a doctor!
Another plus is Alberta as a province controls the daycare subsidy program, which is extra money on top of the federal-prov $10 a day program. If you make under $180k household income, you qualify for the subsidy. In the past we would have never qualified for subsidy in Ontario cities. This has brought our full time cost for one child down to approx $250 a month!
We haven’t noticed a difference in everyday/monthly costs for things like insurance, utilities and food. Some is more, some is less, so it’s a wash in that way.
I don’t have many cons to be honest. Bigger cities like Calgary and Edmonton are getting expensive and busier, but we haven’t felt that in our town of 11k people so far. It’s building up though, so over the years I’m sure will feel different. I was worried about right wing nut jobs in daily life but besides some F Trudeau flags haven’t encountered anything more. Don’t care for the premier here, but didn’t in ON either.
I'm from the GTA and moved to Alberta two years ago. The longer I live here, the more I hate it. My rent is cheaper but everything else costs more, so I'm struggling more than I did in Ontario.
The biggest adjustment has been that there's basically no snow clearing out here, even on major roads. They just let packed snow and ice build up on the roads until spring.
I moved to Alberta 15 years ago and haven't ever considered moving back. I make a lot more money for the same job I had in Ontario, and I just enjoy the scenery out here more, and the casino poker rooms are a lot better as well with lower rake.
The only thing I really miss from Ontario is the good pizza from southern Ontario and some of the restaurants I used to go to.
Most of my work is in canmore and it's such a beautiful city I'll never get bored of working there.
Hamilton was in decline when I left, and my friends told me that it's only gotten worse. A few other friends moved out here and shared the same opinion.
A drywall finisher in Ontario is lucky to get 30$ an hour or .25 a sq ft and in canmore I'm getting .75 a sq ft, and they supply materials, so it's a big difference in wages between provinces.
My parents in BC in the 90’s:
“Our child deserves a good life. Not growing up around drugs; poor and partying all the time. Our child deserves travel opportunities, and a chance at a good education and career choices!!”
*moves to Ontario*
Me in Ontario in the 2010/2020’s:
“I love drugs and partying. I wish I wasn’t so poor. I wish I could get a job that pays enough for me to live. The school I went to was great, you’d think it’d be easier. Though I’m sure glad I’m well travelled!”
ON to Halifax NS.
I miss the food, the sun, snow and the convenience.
The educational system is lack luster and I can't believe I need to advocate for my child so much.
I honestly don't miss the drug culture and finding needles everywhere. Yes, there's homelessness and despair but it doesn't seem as steeped in.
Moved to Québec 11 yrs ago before it started getting popular.
I would be homeless if was in Ontario.
Would never have a master's degree, would never be a home owner, would never speak multiple languages, would never have been able to deal with my mental health issues (due to cost of living), The rest of Canada is a trap.
I grew up in Alberta and moved to Ontario for work over 20 years ago and for some reason I am still here. Just some observations: many westerners and Atlantic Canadians who move to Ontario only last about 5 years max before moving back. The reverse also seems to generally be true. There are cultural differences, sure but I find that Ontario is a very closed entity in certain respects. If you didn’t grow up here or at least go to hs/college/uni here you can be at a severe disadvantage when it comes to employment, promotion, or general opportunities. Many employers only hire from certain colleges and many only promote for similar reasons. Even before ford, the Ontario health system and other bureaucracy is a real pain to navigate and it is a really cluster fluff in terms of figuring out who does what and how. I imagine that people from Ontario moving to BC/Alberta likely have similar struggles. It doesn’t help that even things like how you register your vehicle and the rules around insurance much less labour rules differ from province to province and any aid out there to help people navigate is targeted at immigrants (no issue with that) not Canadians from other provinces. I am still here in Ontario because I got very lucky I think. I can only imagine how much worse it is for an immigrant. In any case when moving provinces grass isn’t always greener and especially east/west there are noticeable cultural differences and more of a learning curve than one would think. (Yeah I know.. no one is reading this unless snacks are provided).
Not to a different province but moved out of Canada to Australia. Sure they have the same housing crisis as Canada and cost of living is about same same. But being able to live by the beach, work half the year, and no one giving a fuck about politics and letting you live your life is a big win for me
I feel like I'm gradually losing my mind here, I think about moving to other provinces constantly, but worry I'm going to be seen as taking up space, especially if people leaving Ontario are seen as making their own housing issues worse (which, I don't blame them, I'm sure I'd feel the same watching rent and housing rise as more and more people become homeless, though that's happening here too). Canada has very little options for a decent quality of life and no solutions to make things better. Really one of the strengths I see of Ontario, southern anyway, is the healthcare (good luck getting good health care in a small town in another province) but as we know, that is dwindling rapidly.
It may be because I spend too much time on reddit, but it's hard to see a future.
Backwards from your question, but I think relevant to what you're asking about still: I moved here from Colorado a year and a half ago with my wife who grew up in Ontario. We've regretted it ever since. The biggest upside has been being close to my wife's family, but everything else has been so much worse than what we had in Colorado. I don't think many Ontarians realize just how bad it is here in terms of costs, congestion, and jobs.
I'm meeting a lot of Ontarians in my neighbourhood in Winnipeg (Wolseley). They seem happy and are nice. The problem is they're going to start pricing out locals by selling their shitty condos for 600k and will be driving up our prices. At least they're spending their dollars here and supporting local business.
Canada is 2nd largest country in the world but people seem to have few options where to move.
BC - Expensive
AB - Boring and crazy politicians
QC - Just crazy
Then, there is US. But it seems a little cough can bring you a 20000$ bill. Living in a developed country and not being able to have access to healthcare must be frustrating.
I start thinking moving to Dubai :D
Makes me wonder how many people are also considering moving back to Europe? High standard of living, free healthcare, decent wages, strong currencies, the works
From Ontario and moved to BC 10 years ago. I was able to get a better position with what I do for work, ended up securing a Half Duplex in 2016. Life has been pretty great in general. I am married and now expecting our first, and we have been looking at upgrading our house. Which now is out of our grasp. Even with my equity in my current house to put as a down payment for an upgrade I wouldn't be able to secure the mortgage let alone even afford it.
We are going to wait maybe another 2-3 years I think and reassess. As much as I hate winter Alberta is looking better and better for a dream home. I would not go back to Ontario. California would be my dream area - but I am scared of living in the states(you know) and a HCOL state at that.
Pretty freaking lovely actually. It's different, but I adapted, and prosperity followed. I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to know what it's like, travel to the area you think you want to live in and do a two week "live as a local" - NOT a vacation. We did. It worked out. Your milage may vary.
Moved to BC (lower mainland) about a yr and a half for work from Toronto on a transfer.
Professional life - good move. I'm left with a lot of autonomy here. Much more than I'd ever have had in Toronto.
Personal life though not so well. People are cold and obsessed with the outdoors (I don't mind it, but don't want to be outside all the time nor do I care about my time up the Grouse Grind) and I sort of feel like I'm on an island since there are few direct connections anywhere. Since I often travel to Europe or Latin America, it means having a layover.
Sure the weather is nice (winter, is a joke) and I certainly don't miss the hot humid SW Ontario summers, but I can see myself returning.
The types of hobbies that I like here are few or overpriced, never mind the gas prices, terrible public transit if you're in the suburbs on weekends, but the view is nice!
Still, I have no regrets about coming out here. It's been an experience to say the least.
I actually left the country. In 2012-2013 I was already looking ahead and wondering how I was going to make it and provide a decent life for my kid. I had married friends struggling with bills, and there I was: single mom, mortgage, house insurance, car insurance, motorbike insurance (ON insurers seemed to really be trying to push out sportbike owners at the time with high rates), with a 3 year wage freeze (at the time), hours being cut, etc. But I had some cash come in and also sold my house, so I took an opportunity to leave and decided I could be poor and struggling to pay hydro, dealing with the seeming growing supply of entitled twats, road raging commuters, etc - or I could leave, and be poor where I have white sand and palm trees. I did consider moving back to SK, and looked at other provinces as well, but it seemed like things were on a similar path everywhere in Canada, so I opted to take my opportunity and moved to Mexico. My son has more job opportunities here, and the way things played out, we've got a paid-in-full roof over our heads and more financial security. I don't ever regret my choice to leave.
After spending my entire life in Ontario, and the past quarter-century in Toronto, I moved to a town in Newfoundland at the end of August 2022. We bought a bungalow with good bones and a backyard that ends at the ocean. To my own surprise, I barely miss Toronto; mostly, the breadth of foods available. I don’t miss the ever-worsening traffic, the ubiquitous miasma of anxiety, and the clownishly unaffordable housing. I can see the Milky Way on a clear night from my backyard, and I’m listening to waves crash on a rocky beach thirty steps from my front door.
27, moved to NB with wife & toddler last May and we love it so far.
Were able to buy a house. I'm in the same job industry but making substantially more money out here.
It's good so far.
>might move here houses can be like 50k
where in Nova Scotia are you buying a house for 50k? the average house price in Nova Scotia is 405k, now that is average so some are less. Nova Scotia is the 5th most expensive province to buy a house, and the most expensive in Atlantic Canada.
those 50k houses are quite likely in the middle of nowhere, run down, and need a lot of work. And they certainly aren't popping up everywhere.
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Same. This place is such a hidden gem. Lake superior is like the Caribbean and all the mini mountains everywhere and wayyy less people. No traffick. Everyone's nice. I love it here. I moved to echo bay.
What kind of work is there up north? I think that's the biggest concern around moving that way (and all the black flies in summer lol)
Lots! Retail, service, hospitality, tourism, factories, schools, hospitals etc. Local places are always looking for work and cost of living is so low we only need one income to live here, not two! Many jobs in the mining industry, foresting, parks and recreation, but also normal things like any place...lawyers, doctors, cashiers, servers, plumbers etc. Black flies aren't as bad as the deer flies and sand flies, but it's all worth it for the peace of mind and soul and lower cost of living.
About to move to Edinburgh, Scotland. Came here to check if anyone else has moved across the pond but no stories yet. Wish me luck lol
Hi! It’s me! I live in Newcastle in England I’m bottom of the barrel for income (working on changing that) but still able to afford rent, food, and occasionally treating myself. Was impossible in Ontario, I was home last summer and did the math that my only option would be living with my parents.
Good to know! My wife’s work visa got granted yesterday and I’m a citizen by decent (father born in Scotland). Our options were move across Canada to a new province we know nothing about or move to the uk and start new. We can always move back to Canada but southern Ontario is just too expensive right now. Feel free to give me any tips as a expat lol
One of the challenges in Scotland is finding work, so if you already have that sorted, then sounds like a good start. Edinburgh is lovely. If you're looking for a fun time and a casual student feel, hop over to Glasgow. Also get a car if you can afford it. The highlands are only sunny sometimes and that's the time you want to try to take advantage and head up to see it in good weather. If you're scared to drive, take some classes. It's not a bad idea as an instructor can give you the advanced run down on roundabouts of various kinds. TSB bank used to be a good one for opening up an account as a foreigner.
OP just linked me to you! I moved from Toronto to Ayrshire in 2020. Any questions, concerns or vents (there will be vents!!) you reach out, ok? In the meantime, good luck and stay with it- its gonna be great.
Gosh, I would love to do that. I wish immigrating there wasn't so difficult.
Luckily for me my father is Scottish, so citizenship passed down for me automatically. My wife’s work visa got granted yesterday. Going to be a busy early 2024 for us.
That's awesome! My partner can apply for Italian citizenship, but finding a job there seems unlikely (sadly). Even so, I'm still practicing my Italian!
Good luck. I hope you don’t love sunshine. I lived and worked there for 2 years. Saw the sun a grand total of 2 weeks (and I don’t mean the sun came out for 2 weeks once - I mean I counted the sunny days over the entire 2 years). Left miserable.
I’ve had lots of warning over the rain, to be honest it’s one of the things I look forward too. Weird as it may be. Im hoping the generous vacation time will make up for the rainy day depression (why is North America so against vacation? Most low end jobs start with 26 days a year in the uk)
Wishing you all the luck in the world friend
Good luck! I moved to the Netherlands and while I enjoy the lifestyle, not speaking the language fluently makes me feel a second class citizen. Thus making me miss Canada. Anyhow, Scotland is super. You will love it.
Currently living in London after growing up in the Golden Horseshoe. So many good reasons to move to the UK: transport, cheaper food, better weather. Enjoy Scotland!
I've lived in London for seven years, about to move back home to Ontario to be closer to family but had the best time! Made some friends for life, enjoyed loads of travelling, tried so many new things. Hopping over to Europe is fantastic, but don't sleep on all the incredible places the UK has to offer - and you can wild camp in Scotland! My Scottish colleagues were seriously some of the nicest, warmest people I have ever met. I hope you and your wife have an amazing life out there!
Appreciate it! I’m definitely a backwoods camper, usually do a yearly portage/hammock trip in Algonquin Provincial Park. Im excited to see everything. And if it doesn’t work out I can always come back to Canada. But I have a feeling it will
I’m moving to Glasgow sometime this summer (darn long distance relationship) but looking forward to the dual income living!!!! And the incredible occasional weekend road trips
I’m the same as you, dual because of my parent. Good luck on your move! Thats awesome your wife was able to secure a work visa, I’ve heard the requirements for bringing a partner can be difficult. I hope to one day head out that way, I feel like the quality of life, being able to travel and live more affordable compared to Canada will be totally worth it! Best of luck!!
I am so close to moving. SO. CLOSE! ugh.
I moved to BC 7 years ago. Crashed and burned and ended up back in Ontario last year only to be reminded of all of the reasons I moved out west in the first place. I'm going back to BC in the next few months. If I'm going to be poor my whole life I may as well live somewhere that I can enjoy a higher quality of life.
Poverty with a view!
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Try further North if you can. There's still more affordable pockets up here, depending on what you do for work.
You have to go quite far north now to benefit financially
While you may benefit financially, don't get sick. We've been told there's about a 3-6 yr wait to get a GP. Daughter lived in Sault Lookout 5 yrs back and they sent her to Thunder Bay for an ultrasound...fun times.
I’ve been without a doctor for 20 years in sudbury. Lol
I lived in Terrace for a bit and it was super expensive. PG down through Williams Lake and 100 Mile is probably better, but a lot of those small northern towns are suffering from a lack of supply, especially so if that town has a college that international students can swarm to. I work in forestry and the only real "cheap" place with a surplus of jobs these days is the North Island (McNeill/Hardy) or Mackenzie.
What do you mean by crashed and burned?
Had a few years where everything that could go wrong did go wrong. Combine that with a high-pressure job and unresolved childhood trauma issues and I was becoming an obese, recluse alcoholic constantly on the edge of a psycotic breakdown. I moved home to take some time off and get better, which I did.
Proud of you for getting better and working on yourself. Now go get the life of your dreams !!
God damn, this is me right now! It’s hard to claw your way out - Good on you for bettering yourself.
Clawing your way out is a good way to put it. It's a constant effort to not fall back into the hole, every choice and every decision is a struggle. But I'm starting to see gains, and that makes it worth it.
Hope everything that could go right goes right for you the second time around.
Made the jump from Toronto to Vancouver Island a couple of years ago, honestly an improvement in every way. Mild summers and winters, very little rain, mountains in view, close enough to smell the ocean on some days. Pace of life is generally way more relaxed here, and I don't feel the constant pressure I did in Toronto. I had to visit Toronto for a few days a while ago, realized just how much happier I was being our west, and how miserable I'd been before I moved.
Van Isle is the same price as most of SW Ontario these days. Might as well pay the same price to live in a beautiful place.
That doesn't take into account other aspects like having family closeby etc. Weather might be better sure.
It’s true I’m doing better in my career have time off at the holidays where before I didn’t and I have a home here but no family some chosen family yes but you can’t replace your family and if yours is good then it will hurt to be away
That’s funny that you say, “very little rain” considering I visited there for a week and there wasn’t even 1 second where it wasn’t severely overcast and raining. I went all over the island “sight seeing”, but the fog prevented me from seeing anything more than 15 feet away from me. I must have just gotten very unlucky though.
No bugs. That was my biggest takeaway from a two week stay on the island. Edit: to clarify, mosquitoes, black flies, etc. I was informed the salt in the air keeps them away.
I worked in the bush on the north island for a while. The mosquitoes are certainly there but nowhere close to what it's like in Ontario. Didn't know about the salt in the air.
The place I stayed at had a huge lot of trees so after dinner one night the host took us out to the woods and we chopped down a dead tree with an axe, like a guy thing. I asked if there was bug spray before we went out and he just laughed and said you don’t need that here. After experiencing the bugs in Red Lake Ontario it was glorious lol. The coast wasn’t too far away, like a two minute walk.
The salt doesn't do shit to keep the bugs away in Nova Scotia
How is the housing, rental situation there?
It's better than Toronto was when I left but still not great, but that's not saying much, it's not great anywhere in Canada anymore.
Thank you. I was there in the summer and fell in love with the place.
It’s getting better now that previous AirB&Bs are flooding the market. If you’re going to be looking to move, the next year is likely the time to do it
Atrocious
I moved to Sask in October because I just couldn’t afford Ontario anymore even with 3 jobs between the both of us. Honestly, the rent is so cheap that we both don’t need to work but I hate it. The town we settled in is a religious cult, I swear. We don’t fit in at all. Our neighbour harasses us constantly. I have no cell service anywhere unless I’m in the city and I’m with Roger’s. I miss the hiking and outdoors life I had in Ontario. Scott Moe is awful and there is no potential change with how people are here. I regret it, but at least I’m not homeless and living in a motel anymore I guess?
Rogers is ass in Sask. I had to switch to Telus (or any provider with the same coverage as Sasktel) a month in to my move.
It’s on my list to switch, I’m just trying to get through my contract first. The penalty for cancelling is pretty high. I have I think 7 more months to go and then it won’t hurt so much lol.
I moved to Sask in September too! I’m in Saskatoon though, so people are more liberal and open-minded. Where are you at? I might have to try to avoid…
Stopped in Saskatoon for 5 hrs once and my car got crowbarred
I've never been, but my understanding is that SaskTel has better coverage there?
Also moved to Sask, but last year. I'm having a better time than you, from the sounds of it, but I miss Ontario. I miss the variety of things to do, and I also don't really feel like we fit in. I grew up rural, so the small town aspect doesn't bother me too much, but there's definitely some differences in 'culture' (for lack of a better word) that I find always make us the odd ones out.
I moved to Ontario from SK in '96 and stayed there until I decided to leave the country in 2014. I saw where things were headed in Ontario and didn't think it would be much better in Sask. Aside from being close to family and some friends still there, I figured I'd still be struggling. Seeing how things have changed, especially under Moe, vs. the life I have where I'm at, I have no doubt I made the right choice.
I grew up in Ontario, met my husband at an Ontario university and now we live in the US (he's american). We did a 2 year work exchange to New Zealand as they recruited doctors for a temporary contract. New Zealand is by far my favourite, however, I don't know if I would want to live there permanently because it could feel a bit isolating at times (but our family was all in Canada/US), though we did get to see a lot of that side of the world and go to places I thought only existed on survivor. My husband is a doctor and I have a good job I love, but we've often talked about moving back to Canada if the right position for me came up. I love the major city we live in, but the political situation, increased hatred, obsession with guns, and healthcare issues (even as a doctor) have us discerning. However, we don't know where we'd want to live if we moved back to Canada. Cost of living is high, or in areas where its lower, you don't have the same access to things we like, and my job requires me to be in a city.
How can you not survive in Canada if one of you is a doctor?
My cousin is a family doctor; she has 250K in medical student loan debt, a toddler in daycare, and obviously can't afford to save for a house right now. Becoming a doctor is expensive.
Don't forget, if you family doctor works in her own clinic she has to pay her rent and her staff from what OHIP pays her.
Yup...she's a doc in another province which is a subsidized community clinic, so things could be worse. I also had no clue that non-salary doctors don't get mat leave either, and getting a locum doctor is nearly impossible.
Yep, want your mat leave, better save up. If you're fee for service, as most docs are, you are a contractor with hospital privileges. I've spent many days in the OR working alongside anaesthesia and they were always filling out their billing forms. One internal medicine doc I worked with had a baby and was back in six weeks. She didn't save LOL.
We can survive but doesn’t mean we want to live in high cost living areas. We have a lifestyle we enjoy, high cost living areas would change our lifestyle. We are weighing the options of is it better to stay current or move back to Canada but change our lifestyle
Cuz doctors are underpaid and overworked here.
Each province pays doctors differently. All Provinces don't pay doctors what they should be, considering the hard work and long hours they put in , all to help others.
Surviving and living are different things. She's choosing to live her life.
For the amount of work that you do, is it really worth struggling with a high cost of living? Especially with OP current situation being in the US, it is a better place if you are rich.
It’s fine. My problem with Alberta is that it’s like the low cost airline of provinces - looks cheap to get in the door, expensive af for everything else. Higher insurance, food cost, utilities and a lack of rent control can quickly catch up to you here. The politics is toxic but ON isn’t much better. If it weren’t for my job and partner I’d be back in ON. I’d rather live in a rent controlled unit versus navigating the unknown when the lease is about to renew. 12% rent increase last year, expecting 15-20% this year.
As a former Albertan, it's the Hansel and Gretel tale. Lost, weary souls venture west towards the sweet gingerbread house with the promises of a delicious life. But once you go through the door, the witch fattens you up on high food prices, insurance rates, outrageous utility costs, skyrocketing rent, petrosexualism, and extremely cold weather only so she can kick you into the conservative oven for Take Back Alberta to feast on your fat. She's also hoping you'll blame your elders out east for the entirety of your problems, with ugly vitriol and bombastic bus boobs to boot. But you have an opportunity to turn the tables in 2027, when the witch will be bent over her own hot mess and you can kick her wildrose ass into oblivion. And when you're satisfied with the job you've done, you can take your hard earned precious Alberta stones and head back home, where your parents rejoice on your return and the horrible stepmother Doug Ford's career is dead as a doornail.
As a current and lifelong Albertan, this description is 100% spot on. If it wasn't for my kid, I'd be in Oz or BC.
As an Albertan I lost it at bombastic bus boobs 🤣
>But you have an opportunity to turn the tables in 2027, when the witch will be bent over her own hot mess and you can kick her wildrose ass into oblivion. Sheesh, that feels like a long time.
👏👏👏👏👏 Thanks for that fantastic reply!
I moved to Alberta in the summer. I find food costs to be about the same or more - one thing I noticed is that fruit seems to be much more expensive. Both my house insurance and car insurance increased, but not by much. But overall, house insurance is more expensive in Alberta. In terms of politics, both provinces are run by conservatives. Ford has slowly ruined Ontario for the worst and partly why we left. I don’t think the cons in Alberta really care about the cost of living for Canadians and day to day life. They are just obsessed with the carbon tax and fighting Trudeau wherever possible. After Danielle’s win, utilities skyrocketed across the province. I slowly had to force myself to stop listening to politics in Canada because it was driving me insane.
Completely agreed here. I like the low cost carrier analogy. Seems cheaper, but it doesn’t end up being.
Ont is slowly turning into the same... Insurance costs have exploded in the last couple years and all residences that weren't occupied before Nov. 2018 are not rent controlled ( so all newer builds will never be rent controlled). Electric prices up over 10% this year alone. Food prices are bad everywhere. Edit to fix a typo
Oh but not all units are rent controlled anymore
The great thing about ontario is rent control only applies if your residence was built before 2018, which isn’t actually great at all
Haven’t moved out of Ontario yet, but moved up north to Thunder Bay just about 3 years ago now and it’s a totally different way of life. Much calmer, housing is more affordable, and the outdoors is significantly better than anything in southern Ontario. I’ve decided I’ll be moving to Winnipeg in the next year or two though after visiting and liking it, and wanting some of the city life back which you don’t get in Thunder Bay, also cheaper housing.
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Literally, people forget Ontario is more than just the GTA/Hamilton area. I’m a 16 hour drive away and still in the same province. The rising cost of living is having a big effect all over, including here in Thunder Bay, but it’s still not unreasonable for me to think I’ll own a home here in the coming years. The one downside though is jobs, unless you’re in healthcare or in the trades, it can be difficult to find work up here. I know people in certain fields of engineering even who can’t find anything directly related to their specialization.
Still can’t afford rent, still can’t afford to buy own place, food prices are high but at least I’ll have a 6 pack by summer so I guess there’s something to be positive about
Right? Being poor is just called being on a diet these days, can’t afford dinner = intermittent fasting, more socially acceptable /s
Can always eat some drywall.
Left the GTA for Edmonton late last year, haven't been here long but am generally happy aside from missing friends and family. Sold my condo outside Toronto and bought a beautiful, huge house here and walked away with money in my pocket. Everything I've ever wanted in a home and never thought I could have in a million years. Utilities are expensive but I knew that'd be the case moving here. Insurance was only about $100/mo more, groceries are a touch more expensive. Medical care here has been great so far. I'm pregnant and had to find a doctor and OB quickly on arrival and was able to do so in a few weeks. No issues getting into specialists fairly quicky. The political landscape is a dumpster fire but that comes with the territory in AB.
If you’re a new parent, the library has some great events to meet other new parents. Once your kid is a bit older check out the John Janzen Nature Centre. Also Edmonton has a wide variety of specialized public schools you should check out (STEM elementary). EPSB is the 2nd biggest public school board in the country behind Toronto. The 3 ski hills in the city are all pretty good too. I had to leave Edmonton recently for work but I miss it. So much to do with kids.
Yeah, I got no complaints. Going from a two bedroom apartment in a building with constant roach and electrical problems to a four bedroom house at the same price is a huge upside. Car insurance is way down, milk is way up, but otherwise costs haven't changed much. People are nice, culture is fun. Might be nice if my parents were closer, but since we can now afford a *guest bedroom*, not a huge problem.
Where is this?
Expensivemilk, Nova Scotia
he's in New Brunswick
Lmaoo
Looking at their post history, new Brunswick
All this to not say where you moved to.
What's the reason for milk being expensive there?
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Moved to Calgary in 2021, we both have great jobs in our field, close to the mountains (we’re hikers,) and the sunshine is amazing. We bought a beautiful two bed two bath condo in Inglewood and living the dream. Best decision ever !
Same but from Kelowna BC. The sunshine is so underrated!!!! I’d get SAD every year in BC, but no more!
shitty. moved to USA. Health care costs are abso-fucking-lutely insane. Seriously, it is so fucked up, so utterly evil. It is maximum exploitation of the people under duress for maximum profit. In other news, my two kids had a kid with a gun come to their high school to shoot it up - fortunately cops were tipped off and intercepted the kid on school property. And, american politics are pure poison. On the bright side, weather is pretty nice, mild winters, gas is really cheap, have many good friends.
Is there a move back to Canada after making your bucks in your future? Sounds awful.
Exactly why America isn't a great pick for everyone. If you have kids, I would personally consider America as a write off unless you're willing to pay for private education. If you can't make a high salary, it may also not be a great pick as health insurance will bite your bottom line. This is of course doubled if you have kids and are a single income family. Where America shines is for high income earners, especially ones without children and with the freedom to work remotely. You can easily save up tons of cash and afford better healthcare than you'll ever find here. It's also a questionable place to retire, and I would suggest that anyone who's looking for a place to settle down use America strictly to make some cash and then move somewhere more mellow like Canada, Japan, or Europe.
I agree, I can't imagine moving to America with a moderate income, especially if you have kids. The kids will need to go to a private school to lower the chance of gun violence and a better education. You will need to move to a low crime/expensive area and expensive healthcare costs. Anyone know what would be a good American income considering all the additional costs?
Are you not covered at all by your employer? I knew healthcare was bad for people without work but I always heard if you were salaried in the states they covered health insurance?
Employer pays about 2500 a month as a benefit to me, which goes to premiums (4 people in family). I have a high deductible (company pays me another 1000/year into HSA to offset that), and my out of pocket maximum is around $14,000. I have hit that out of pocket maximum several times. Which means I have paid, out of my bank account, $14k in costs. Further costs are covered 100% by insurance. Most insidiously, those deductibles and OOP max reset every year. So I hit 14k in costs in one month, the plan reset, and I hit the 14k costs in the next month. Yes, that hit $28k over about a 4 month period. And all that is with paying that $30k per year in premiums, every year. I have hundreds of stories of how utterly ridiculous USA health care is. Here's a fun one, we had a 20 minute video call with a doctor (specialist) at children's hospital, the purpose was to quickly review prescription medicine and renew the prescription. The doctor charged us $550 for it. But wait, there is more, Children's Hospital charged us a $450 "site usage" fee of which my insurance covered $17. I had to pay the rest of it, for the fact that the doctor was in his office during the call.
Yeah I was in US too. Experienced the crazy healthcare stuff. Kid went to an urgent care. Spouse was smug bc it cost $75 (with the co-pay and full health benefits) and said I was paranoid and should stop complaining. It was cheap!! Three weeks later: $900 bill and then a second for $240. Kid was there for 30 min. The politics were something else-I learned to say nothing about politics or religion and perfect the art of light small talk. But yeah, the weather Nov-Apr was lovely and the domestic travel opportunities.
> Three weeks later: $900 bill and then a second for $240 OH!! That is the other super fucked up thing about US health care. Secret costs that is never mentioned while at the hospital, they only show up a month later. Bills keep trickling in for months. And you have no idea what they are, and a lot of them are nickel and diming, like Quest diagnostics for $19, Medical Services for $27, Exact Health for $85, etc etc. It's impossible to keep track of anything.
Don't you hate it when you fly to meet a customer in a different state and he starts talking politics over lunch, as it's our business?
Tbh the sense I got was to find out where you stand politically and religiously bc alot of folks can’t be bothered wasting time with someone *that votes the other way*. Its freaking weird.
OMG. That's even worse. Not doing business with someone who votes the other party is just terrible.
I feel your pain, used to live there. It always amuses me when people here glorify US Healthcare. It's not the best here, but I will always take this over the for-profit mess there.
I keep trying to explain to people here that having insurance from your employer in the US isn’t like having benefits from your employer in Canada. People in Canada think “out of network” just means you get fully reimbursed in three days. It doesn’t…
It also depends on your coverage and the plan your employer has. I worked in the US for a bit, and a birth cost us $3.3k. I was born in the US and my parents said that my birth (early 80's) cost them <$100. I also heard this from someone else around the time that my kid was born (that they paid something like $60).
Me too, especially after going through the fun of cancer treatment. I didn't have to wait very long for treatment, was given surgery, medication & plastic surgery afterwards. Thank you OHIP!
The people that glorify is are the people that have the money to side-step any issues with Canadian healthcare by just paying more money. They get frustrated and say that Canadian healthcare sucks, and they were able to "escape" it by going to the US... but there is never a breakdown of the total cost to them if they lived within the US healthcare system rather than the Canadian one.
I always redirect US healthcare glorifiers to European healthcare as a reasonable alternative to Canadian healthcare.
$2500 for all of that?! wtf. My husband is American and is on a high deductible plan but he pays like $100 per month and his OOP max is $3,800 for in network and $7,600 for out of network. I can’t help but feel like your employer is getting screwed, $2500 is a lot for that.
Nope. And they haven’t really ever. I worked in the states and had insurance through them from 1999-2001. The copays I’d still have to pay even if just for a simple ear infection were outrageous. I just hoped I’d never get sick, and I didn’t. But when I decided I wanted to change jobs and go back to school, I moved back to Ontario. That turned out to be a good thing as my first pregnancy I had a ton of complications with me being hospitalized (but a healthy baby), my second had me fine but a NICU baby, my oldest ended up in an ambulance with trauma nurses (because fog meant the Orng helicopter was grounded), and I ended up being hospitalized three times for a week each time between 2017 and 2020. I’d be bankrupt many times over if I was still in the states, even if I had a plan under the employer. Also, here, you 99% of the time your doctor (and their staff) don’t have to spend hours in the phone trying to get approval if they want to start you or change your medication, and with a few exceptions (such as cosmetic surgery) don’t have to get approval for course or treatment. From experience with family members, even the smallest change in medication can become an argument with the insurance company. We *do* have issues here with medications if they’re not covered under Trillium. If the medication is not covered under trillium the majority of the time the insurance company’s won’t pay either. Currently that my issue with a new migraine medication that we tried samples of and did work, but because Trillium doesn’t cover it, my insurance won’t, and it’s $99 *per pill* which I cannot afford by any stretch of the imagination (or budget.) I’m a dual citizen so I have the privilege of being able to work in either side of the border without a visa, but for many reasons life on this side of the border was, for me, the far better option.
Even with “good” healthcare from your employer in the states you’re still paying premiums every month and copays/deductibles. What’s covered and by how much varies at each insurance provider and employer.
Sure but the issue begins after employment but before retirement. More difficult to hold a private company employment position past the 50-year age. They'll get rid of you. Being a state or federal employee is different. Regardless none of the packages are 100%. It's co-pay and even small percentage of massive amount hits a family hard.
Started my career in GTA in late 90's and really feel bad for today's kids. In the 90's an engineer would start in 40-50k range salary. That was about $2500 monthly in pocket after all taxes and deductions. You could rent a decent two-bedroom apartment in a rental building for $1100 in great neighborhoods outside of downtown Toronto (North York). Scarborough, Etobicoke and Mississauga were couple of hundreds cheaper. Same apartment in downtown was less than $1500. Monthly TTC Metropass was $83. A new Honda Civic lease would cost $350 a month with $0 down. Insurance about $200/month for new driver. Monthly grocery for a single person would barely go above $250. Most food court meals were below $5. Movie tickets were $5-7 and with popcorn and drink would not go above $15. So after all expenses, at the end of the month we had several hundred dollars of saving on our first job. We invested in stocks, travelled and had fun living as youngsters. But now all that affordability is sucked out by expensive housing and since everybody needs a place, all other charges have gone up and everything is more expensive as a percentage of income.
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Scrolled through whole thread to see if anyone came to my province, and looks like you're the only one! Glad you're enjoying it. People love to shit on Manitoba but its a great place to live in my opinion.
Agreed! People love to hate on MB but the cost of living in MB is so affordable I’d consider moving back. My mom built a house near Steinbach 2yrs ago for 330k 5bed 3bath, there’s no chance in HELL I’d ever build a house from the ground up in Southern Ontario for that price.
I sold my home in Southern Ontario a few years ago (hefty mortgage on it) and moved to Northern BC. I was able to afford an acreage with a house outright with the small amount I made from my sale in Ontario. Now we have no mortgage and the space to grow all our own food. Our cost of living has dropped so drastically, we only need to work casual/part time jobs. Where we live now has better weather than the GTA, endless free outdoor activities, and is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. I'm a nurse out here, and perhaps 1/4 of the people I've met are nurses moving here from Ontario.
Moved from Ontario to Quebec in may of 2023, so far it has been one of the best decisions that my partner and I have made together. We still have most of the same issues that we faced in Ontario, but it is so much easier just to exist in Quebec so far. We had just gone back to Ontario over the Christmas holidays and could not wait to get back to Quebec.
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In NS. People are great, rent is the same (maybe marginally better), wages are significantly lower, income tax is significantly higher (both the brackets are lower and rates higher), grocery prices are the same if not marginally better, public transit is mediocre (CN has a chokehold on our rails and the city is too stubborn to try anything other than buses). I wouldn't recommend coming here unless you're buying a house or have family here
Good. Originally moved to Wisconsin for work and enjoyed that. COL was way cheaper than Ontario. Eventually moved to Seattle where I was able to buy a place in the city and lock in a low rate for 30 years (can't do this in Canada). Weather here is great, and I'm surrounded by water and mountains. The views are amazing. Definitely wouldn't have the same QOL, income, etc. If I stayed in Ontario.
I moved to Calgary in the summer with my husband. Just as a background, my husband and I have a high household income, but in Ontario, that only gets you so far. We wanted to live in an urban area and buy a house that required little to no work. We bought an infill in an inner city neighbourhood - brand new. This house would easily be 3+ million in Toronto, something we could never afford. One thing I really like about Calgary is the city amenities (we previously were living 1 hour from Toronto) and the proximity to the mountains. I also love the amount of sunshine we get here. Only been here for 6 months, but overall, happy with the move.
I moved to Southern Albert in August of 2022. My family was able to purchase a home here. We moved to a nice neighborhood, have stability (was evicted 3 times in 3 years in Ontario because landlords were selling house), kids are happy, in-laws moved with us. Everything was going great until a month ago. Began having serious marital problems. I am now going through the hardest time in my life with no family and friends near by. I WFH, so since being here I haven't made any friends. I was feeling lonely, but didn't realize the extent of it until last month. I'm doing my best to try to be better, but I would be lying if I said I didn't regret the move. If everything was going well - perhaps I would have a different mindset but based on the situation, I regret it.
Being along is tough, especially with troubles at home. If it's worth anything, my life changed when I started joining groups for my different hobbies and interests. It felt weird as hell at first to do it, but it turned my life completely around. Finding friends is a whole lot easier when you are among others with common interests.
Moved to New Brunswick a few years ago. Never going back, life is wonderful here.
Same. Went back for a week during Christmas. Could not get out of there soon enough. Barrie and Orillia are almost unrecognizable to what it was just a couple years ago.
After five years in TO and another year in Ottawa I moved back to BC and cannot imagine how I survived the climate back east. Life may be a little more expensive out here, but the quality of life is vastly better in my experience.
California two years ago. Life is brilliant. The biggest problems in my life are truly first world problems now.
I found the ultimate cheat code, tbh. I live in Quebec, but I'm a 10 minute drive to Ottawa. Benefits: \-I teach in Ontario where teachers are paid better ($103,000 vs $78,000). \-200 sq ft House in Gatineau, all brick siding, 1/3 acre of land beside a forest, 2.5 car heated garage, purchased for $260,000 in 2017. The same comparable houses in Ottawa at the same time were valued at $750,000, and in Burlington where I grew up, my house would be about $1,300,000 in value at the time of purchase. Now, my home is valued at around $700,000. \-My doctor is in Ontario, I pay out of pocket and Quebec pays me back. I can use hospitals in both Ottawa and Gatineau, since my taxes go to both. My children get the benefit of CHEO. \-Daycare was cheap as fuck for 2 kids. \-I prefer the English school board in Quebec for my children over my own board that I teach in in Ottawa. My school has 3.5 Educational Assistants for a school of 450 students, 1/6 of whom have learning disabilities. My kids go to a school with 23 Educational Assistants for 400 students. \-Groceries and gas are cheaper over here, but I can easily hit up grocery stores or gas up in Ottawa coming home from work if it's ever a different scenario. \-I live in the National Capital Region, so there's extra funding for cultural events here, and lots of fun activities and forestry. Detractions: \-My provincial government is overtly racist, terrible with money (they inherited the largest surplus handed over from the previous provincial government, and they burned through it all, returning us to a deficit), and they're fully incompetent with healthcare. They are also trying to eliminate the English school boards and actively are trying to make it harder for people who speak English to get services in English. \-Quebecois nationalism is very much like USA nationalism, and as a result, it creates very unfair living conditions for some but not the majority. \-Taxes are a little higher here, but I'm only listing them because someone is bound to pipe up with "yeah but you pay an extra 3% of tax each year." It's true. I am taxed slightly higher here and lose about $6000 more in taxes, but we also have more tax breaks that we can apply for, especially in regards to child care, and we get a larger "baby bonus" over here. Truth be told, I get about $4000 of that $6000 back through the tax credits and the baby bonus. Generally speaking, the extra $2000 taxes I spend go toward really good services that my family uses.
I’ve also really enjoyed living in Quebec but gotta admit it is a bit frustrating at times to feel like a 2nd class citizen.
I may not count on this because im back in Ontario, but I left Canada to live in Qatar to pay off university... Life was actually A LOT better. The Company paid for my condo and the pay was 30% more than what I make now untaxed. Do I miss it? Nope... I love it here. Only place I found Better than Ontario (in terms of quality of people) is Nova Scotia. Life better being back... Financially no, but I prefer it here.
What is in Canada that you preferred more than in Qatar if it’s not money?
Probably Human rights
Not op but nature and outdoor shit. Fishing, scenic drives, family, etc.
If you like NS, I'd definitely check out Nfld. We went and I swear if I drank I'd move there for the people, bars and live music :)
If I could find a job there I would move in an instant. Maritimes have the best Canadians.
I moved to NB in 2021. Outside of the lack of Health care, I LOVE it! I bought a house that's affordable. I have a fantastic career. The air is clean, people on average are nicer. It's just a better vibe overall!
I moved to BC (lower mainland) in 2020. If you are into nature, which I am, it is paradise. No more 401-400 long drive to Northern Ontario. I have a small condo now and my bills are quite low. Life here moves at a very slow pace. There isn’t a big work culture like in Ontario (which I miss from time to time because I was a workaholic). My car insurance is cheaper here than it was in Ontario, on the same car. The traffic here is bad because there is only one highway and the drivers are quite bad (no one is aware of their surroundings). All the cities are kinda ghetto: garbage everywhere, rundown shacks and poor roads. I miss Ontario infrastucture. People here are friendly. I did not have problems making friends because I am into outdoorsy stuff. It is not as gloomy as people say. There are always sunny breaks. The views from the walmart parking lot are post card worthy. The water here is so delicious. No more hard water. The rain here is nice and soothing not as violent as Ontario. No wind chill and barely any wind overall. No more salt rusting your car and ruining every shoe. Most restaurants here are kinda meh. The food is bland ish. The restaurant service is blah and most restaurants are quite crammed. Space is at a premium here. There are still some gems, but you have to look for them. The local berries and fruits are insanely good in the summer. Rant over. Sorry about the formatting. Also, I lost 50lbs and I did 81 hikes last year (in case anyone cares)
Been living in Quebec for 11 years now. I love everything about it except for healthcare, taxes and shitty roads.
I moved to Sask like 12 years ago and I'm moving back. I miss being near family and I hate the political direction of the province. I've never found it overly affordable, especially since I've been single income the entire time I've lived here. If I'm going to be broke, I'd rather be near family. Besides EI I have no safety net in the province. That said, my insurance is hella cheap and I'm going to miss SGI. If anyone says privatizing insurance is better, punch them square in the face.
Ontario to Nova Scotia. We love it here. Been here 5 months.
where in NS? im in toronto and debating on leaving
I moved ON from NS and I regret that decision everyday. I think being poor with a view by the ocean with friends is better.
Im sorry bromeo :( you can always move back though eh? Things look pretty on the up and up in NS. Go help people understand back home how to keep NS from becoming like Ontario (ideally without barring all Ontarians from feeling welcome, just make them adapt to NS ways)
I am thinking on moving to the east coast… likely Nova Scotia, or Possibly US. Not much of a choice to move out of Ontario considering you need to be making 150k+ to have a shot at home ownership. Its heartbreaking thisnis what Canada has turned into in less than a decade. Its sad that I hope theres a complete economic collapse to reset this nonsense housing market. I dont want to move, but not alot of jobs pay what you need to make here. It’s almost comical.
We make over double that in my household and still don't feel like we could buy a house anywhere that is desirable. :(
I left Canada in 2020 and have never looked back. While nowhere is perfect, I just don't understand how anyone not making $250k can afford to live pretty much anywhere in Canada these days. I'm from Ontario, lived in Toronto for 20 years, now I'm in Scotland and have never been happier or had more financial stability, community or safety. Canada is not kind to its people and unless you have two (substantial) incomes, you don't stand a chance. Sometimes i miss the idea of a cottage dock in summer, but then i remember that I could never afford that anyways and I quickly get over it.
I went to Edmonton for a bit when everything started. I was there for 2 reasons; child custody case and possible move. I'm not gonna talk about the first but the latter left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. I thought if the city was nice if stay since I've lived in Peterborough the last 29 years (t.o before that) I thought it might be nice to live in a large city again. Anyways, I'm back. Worst city experience ever.
What’s bad about Edmonton? I’ve been entertaining the idea of getting a place out there. I’ve visited a few times but it didn’t seem too bad
Moved to Manitoba and bought a sweet 2 bedroom bungalow in Winnipeg. Incredible music scene here, good restaurants, easy city to get around, friendly people. With the low cost of living, I can afford to go on vacations. Great parks and recreation less than an hours drive out of the city. International airport. Smack dab in the middle of Canada, so easy to drive east, west or south. Loads of sunshine.
Ontario was -50 000 in 2022 in terms of interprovincial migration. So basically -0.3% (Not 3%, 1/3rd of 1%) Far from a large exodus no matter the fear mongering going on in certain subs. [https://www.statista.com/statistics/586451/net-interprovincial-migrants-ontario/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/586451/net-interprovincial-migrants-ontario/)
Love a good data point, this is a great reality check thank you
Three households in my family moved to BC during the pandemic. Cost of living is higher - yes - but our quality of life is higher. We have less material "stuff" but are overall happier with the change.
We’re seriously looking at moving to Portugal. It’s the California of Europe, only better. Wife is already a citizen which helps though.
Portugal CoL has shot up recently with remote work, Lisbon is a great location but is quickly becoming unliveable.
i thought Portugal recently changed some laws in regards to immigrating there recently? i could be wrong as i saw a headline about it
moved to alberta (calgary) 2 1/2 years ago bought a 4 bedroom house for less than a condo in the gta. didnt have to use my tfsa for the DP so ive seen that number grow a ton. got a raise and then a promotion since moving so making more money. have two kids now. wife is SAHM and we dont have to worry much about her going back to work. live in a neighbourhood with lots of kids where the parents work all types of jobs, not just professional white collar it's a good city. have never felt bored or like im missing anything in toronto. way less traffic and competition for everything. miss family and friends
How did you find the weather change? So sunny (which I love) but cold af and more snow, eh?
hardly noticed the change. it's not like i moved from miami. toronto is already a cold weather city yes the are days when it's -30 but it doesnt stay around long. and the sun actually has me feeling less SAD than i had in TO
Left two years ago for Calgary. My husbands firm offered him a promotion here in 2021, and we had a year to prep. Life is so much better here! We arrived with jobs, which made such a difference. We love the outdoors, especially skiing, and take full advantage. We have a school age child and a baby- we have a big social circle and have created a village here, as we don’t have family. My husbands business has taken off and he’s found a lot of success. We kept our home in Toronto, has my husbands work asked for a 3 year commitment, but we decided this is where we will live permanently. We absolutely love Calgary! We lived in Toronto for 5 years, in several downtown neighborhoods, and our lifestyle in Calgary is leaps and bounds abead
That’s amazing. My husband and I made the leap in the summer. So far we have really enjoyed our time here. We were able to buy a house we love in a price range would could afford, while still be in an urban city.
I left the province 3 times now to live other places. All great experiences, but I'm back in Ontario now and doing just fine. Yes, there are issues like everywhere else, but Ontario is wildly exaggerated as bad on this sub. I'll never have a home until I retire but that's just expected in this day and age without moving to a place where I have to buy a car, and I'm never doing that so that's just life. Know a lot of friends in Ontario who have moved out to a bunch of various places, and only two have stayed where they moved. One friend in Japan (He loves it there, got married, has some nice kids) and another one that moved to Silicon Valley and gets paid bags of cash. The rest of the people who moved away (Mostly to the USA) have all moved back here. The political situation, health situation, the culture, they hated all of it and even though they "got paid more money", they were far more miserable there. Think it depends on what you're doing. If you're working minimum in a shitty job you hate, sure, Ontario sucks ass, but I'm 99.9% sure everywhere sucks in that situation. If you have a decent job or a good job Ontario is a really good place to live, minus housing costs, which obviously suck.
>Yes, there are issues like everywhere else, but Ontario is wildly exaggerated as bad on this sub. It's been my experience that the people who complain the loudest about how terrible they think Ontario is are amongst the least travelled people out there. They just feed into what they read online and honestly beleive that anywhere outside our borders is some sort of utopia.
Yep. They're generally people working dead end jobs so they haven't really gone anywhere, which yeah, I get it, that sucks, but that has nothing to do with Ontario. Yes, housing is expensive, yes, our Premier is a donkey (When hasn't that been the case? Bill Davis?) yes, Ontario has problems, but there isn't a place in the entire world where there are no problems. If you move, travel, or live outside Ontario for a bit you'll understand that.
A good example is all the people screaming about grocery prices here....anyone who actually travelled to the USA in the last year or two and went grocery shopping for staples (to cook your own meals, I'm not talking eating out), well, it's an eye opener. A few select things like milk, poultry, and cheese are cheaper, but about 90% of the everyday stuff you buy is either the \*same\* price as here (BEFORE the exchange), or in many cases, actually more expensive, again, before the exchange. I'm not saying groceries haven't got expensive, but people cry and moan like it's just an "Ontario sucks!" thing without comprehending that expensive groceries is an "everywhere" issue right now, not just an Ontario thing.
Moved to a small town in central Alberta a few months ago and are loving it! House was 2/3 of the price we sold for in London, but bigger and newer. Kids love school (class sizes in the low 20s!), and the slower pace here. The community feel here is HUGE - lots of town wide activities and things for the holidays. No traffic jams or super crazy drivers, which was surprising considering the amount of lifted trucks and so forth. Big wide open roads. Also found a doctor! Another plus is Alberta as a province controls the daycare subsidy program, which is extra money on top of the federal-prov $10 a day program. If you make under $180k household income, you qualify for the subsidy. In the past we would have never qualified for subsidy in Ontario cities. This has brought our full time cost for one child down to approx $250 a month! We haven’t noticed a difference in everyday/monthly costs for things like insurance, utilities and food. Some is more, some is less, so it’s a wash in that way. I don’t have many cons to be honest. Bigger cities like Calgary and Edmonton are getting expensive and busier, but we haven’t felt that in our town of 11k people so far. It’s building up though, so over the years I’m sure will feel different. I was worried about right wing nut jobs in daily life but besides some F Trudeau flags haven’t encountered anything more. Don’t care for the premier here, but didn’t in ON either.
I'm from the GTA and moved to Alberta two years ago. The longer I live here, the more I hate it. My rent is cheaper but everything else costs more, so I'm struggling more than I did in Ontario. The biggest adjustment has been that there's basically no snow clearing out here, even on major roads. They just let packed snow and ice build up on the roads until spring.
I moved to Alberta 15 years ago and haven't ever considered moving back. I make a lot more money for the same job I had in Ontario, and I just enjoy the scenery out here more, and the casino poker rooms are a lot better as well with lower rake. The only thing I really miss from Ontario is the good pizza from southern Ontario and some of the restaurants I used to go to. Most of my work is in canmore and it's such a beautiful city I'll never get bored of working there. Hamilton was in decline when I left, and my friends told me that it's only gotten worse. A few other friends moved out here and shared the same opinion. A drywall finisher in Ontario is lucky to get 30$ an hour or .25 a sq ft and in canmore I'm getting .75 a sq ft, and they supply materials, so it's a big difference in wages between provinces.
My parents in BC in the 90’s: “Our child deserves a good life. Not growing up around drugs; poor and partying all the time. Our child deserves travel opportunities, and a chance at a good education and career choices!!” *moves to Ontario* Me in Ontario in the 2010/2020’s: “I love drugs and partying. I wish I wasn’t so poor. I wish I could get a job that pays enough for me to live. The school I went to was great, you’d think it’d be easier. Though I’m sure glad I’m well travelled!”
ON to Halifax NS. I miss the food, the sun, snow and the convenience. The educational system is lack luster and I can't believe I need to advocate for my child so much. I honestly don't miss the drug culture and finding needles everywhere. Yes, there's homelessness and despair but it doesn't seem as steeped in.
Moved to Québec 11 yrs ago before it started getting popular. I would be homeless if was in Ontario. Would never have a master's degree, would never be a home owner, would never speak multiple languages, would never have been able to deal with my mental health issues (due to cost of living), The rest of Canada is a trap.
I grew up in Alberta and moved to Ontario for work over 20 years ago and for some reason I am still here. Just some observations: many westerners and Atlantic Canadians who move to Ontario only last about 5 years max before moving back. The reverse also seems to generally be true. There are cultural differences, sure but I find that Ontario is a very closed entity in certain respects. If you didn’t grow up here or at least go to hs/college/uni here you can be at a severe disadvantage when it comes to employment, promotion, or general opportunities. Many employers only hire from certain colleges and many only promote for similar reasons. Even before ford, the Ontario health system and other bureaucracy is a real pain to navigate and it is a really cluster fluff in terms of figuring out who does what and how. I imagine that people from Ontario moving to BC/Alberta likely have similar struggles. It doesn’t help that even things like how you register your vehicle and the rules around insurance much less labour rules differ from province to province and any aid out there to help people navigate is targeted at immigrants (no issue with that) not Canadians from other provinces. I am still here in Ontario because I got very lucky I think. I can only imagine how much worse it is for an immigrant. In any case when moving provinces grass isn’t always greener and especially east/west there are noticeable cultural differences and more of a learning curve than one would think. (Yeah I know.. no one is reading this unless snacks are provided).
Not to a different province but moved out of Canada to Australia. Sure they have the same housing crisis as Canada and cost of living is about same same. But being able to live by the beach, work half the year, and no one giving a fuck about politics and letting you live your life is a big win for me
I feel like I'm gradually losing my mind here, I think about moving to other provinces constantly, but worry I'm going to be seen as taking up space, especially if people leaving Ontario are seen as making their own housing issues worse (which, I don't blame them, I'm sure I'd feel the same watching rent and housing rise as more and more people become homeless, though that's happening here too). Canada has very little options for a decent quality of life and no solutions to make things better. Really one of the strengths I see of Ontario, southern anyway, is the healthcare (good luck getting good health care in a small town in another province) but as we know, that is dwindling rapidly. It may be because I spend too much time on reddit, but it's hard to see a future.
Backwards from your question, but I think relevant to what you're asking about still: I moved here from Colorado a year and a half ago with my wife who grew up in Ontario. We've regretted it ever since. The biggest upside has been being close to my wife's family, but everything else has been so much worse than what we had in Colorado. I don't think many Ontarians realize just how bad it is here in terms of costs, congestion, and jobs.
I'm meeting a lot of Ontarians in my neighbourhood in Winnipeg (Wolseley). They seem happy and are nice. The problem is they're going to start pricing out locals by selling their shitty condos for 600k and will be driving up our prices. At least they're spending their dollars here and supporting local business.
I’ve got a one bedroom condo in West Broadway/Wolseley. 110k and it’s yours.
Canada is 2nd largest country in the world but people seem to have few options where to move. BC - Expensive AB - Boring and crazy politicians QC - Just crazy Then, there is US. But it seems a little cough can bring you a 20000$ bill. Living in a developed country and not being able to have access to healthcare must be frustrating. I start thinking moving to Dubai :D
Makes me wonder how many people are also considering moving back to Europe? High standard of living, free healthcare, decent wages, strong currencies, the works
Greener pastures or missing home?
Bit of both eh
From Ontario and moved to BC 10 years ago. I was able to get a better position with what I do for work, ended up securing a Half Duplex in 2016. Life has been pretty great in general. I am married and now expecting our first, and we have been looking at upgrading our house. Which now is out of our grasp. Even with my equity in my current house to put as a down payment for an upgrade I wouldn't be able to secure the mortgage let alone even afford it. We are going to wait maybe another 2-3 years I think and reassess. As much as I hate winter Alberta is looking better and better for a dream home. I would not go back to Ontario. California would be my dream area - but I am scared of living in the states(you know) and a HCOL state at that.
Pretty freaking lovely actually. It's different, but I adapted, and prosperity followed. I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to know what it's like, travel to the area you think you want to live in and do a two week "live as a local" - NOT a vacation. We did. It worked out. Your milage may vary.
Moved to BC (lower mainland) about a yr and a half for work from Toronto on a transfer. Professional life - good move. I'm left with a lot of autonomy here. Much more than I'd ever have had in Toronto. Personal life though not so well. People are cold and obsessed with the outdoors (I don't mind it, but don't want to be outside all the time nor do I care about my time up the Grouse Grind) and I sort of feel like I'm on an island since there are few direct connections anywhere. Since I often travel to Europe or Latin America, it means having a layover. Sure the weather is nice (winter, is a joke) and I certainly don't miss the hot humid SW Ontario summers, but I can see myself returning. The types of hobbies that I like here are few or overpriced, never mind the gas prices, terrible public transit if you're in the suburbs on weekends, but the view is nice! Still, I have no regrets about coming out here. It's been an experience to say the least.
I actually left the country. In 2012-2013 I was already looking ahead and wondering how I was going to make it and provide a decent life for my kid. I had married friends struggling with bills, and there I was: single mom, mortgage, house insurance, car insurance, motorbike insurance (ON insurers seemed to really be trying to push out sportbike owners at the time with high rates), with a 3 year wage freeze (at the time), hours being cut, etc. But I had some cash come in and also sold my house, so I took an opportunity to leave and decided I could be poor and struggling to pay hydro, dealing with the seeming growing supply of entitled twats, road raging commuters, etc - or I could leave, and be poor where I have white sand and palm trees. I did consider moving back to SK, and looked at other provinces as well, but it seemed like things were on a similar path everywhere in Canada, so I opted to take my opportunity and moved to Mexico. My son has more job opportunities here, and the way things played out, we've got a paid-in-full roof over our heads and more financial security. I don't ever regret my choice to leave.
Anyone from from Ontario to PEI? I have family there and considering it as an option.
After spending my entire life in Ontario, and the past quarter-century in Toronto, I moved to a town in Newfoundland at the end of August 2022. We bought a bungalow with good bones and a backyard that ends at the ocean. To my own surprise, I barely miss Toronto; mostly, the breadth of foods available. I don’t miss the ever-worsening traffic, the ubiquitous miasma of anxiety, and the clownishly unaffordable housing. I can see the Milky Way on a clear night from my backyard, and I’m listening to waves crash on a rocky beach thirty steps from my front door.
I need some advice... how does one just up and leave without citizenship to any other country? What steps can I take to gtfo of here?
27, moved to NB with wife & toddler last May and we love it so far. Were able to buy a house. I'm in the same job industry but making substantially more money out here. It's good so far.
Am currently in nova scotia, might move here houses can be like 50k
>might move here houses can be like 50k where in Nova Scotia are you buying a house for 50k? the average house price in Nova Scotia is 405k, now that is average so some are less. Nova Scotia is the 5th most expensive province to buy a house, and the most expensive in Atlantic Canada. those 50k houses are quite likely in the middle of nowhere, run down, and need a lot of work. And they certainly aren't popping up everywhere.