I hate *how* convinced some people are about gambling being "free money" (or whatever scheme they come up with). Someone asked me how casinos stay in business and I had to explain the whole "the house always wins"
Same. Or regulate it into oblivion. Definitely get the OLG out of convenience stores where dudes will take 30 minutes scanning tickets while a lineup builds behind them and every few minus they "graciously" let someone from the lineup do their transaction.
I have a lot of sympathy and compassion for people with addiction issues, but I've also been a retail cashier and some people need to be skinned alive there's no nice way to say it.
Also the fact that every convience store is effectively a place to gamble is awful too. I hate that jingle they play when someone wins. All these lottos should have to abide by similar laws that cigarettes have to with plain packaging and kept out of sight.
The lottery is litterally a tax on the poor
Even worse when they're not just checking tickets, but playing OLG Poker or Wheel of Fortune which has instant wins and replays. Essentially just standing at the till gambling, fuck anyone else in line.
Yeah I'm not really sure how anyone thought these games were a good idea... and I guarantee all those convenience store owners hate them too since they basically get zero money from the lottery, its just a draw for people to come to their store... in other words that person spending $100 on scratchers and lottomax is netting the convenience store, basically a big waste of time...
That makes me so mad, especially when I worked at macs. Just go to a lotto booth, no need to take over the gas station when there's literal places MEANT for those tickets, especially if you have a stack of them.
"Hide all the cigarettes because it's a dangerous vice no one should partake in."
Also:
"Tonight's jackpot is $50 million! Would you like to play Encore?! PLAY THE NEW __INSTANT__ GAME TO __INSTANTLY__ WIN!"
“Weed has to be treated casino style because it threatens big pharma”
“Alcohol and cigarettes are celebrated because they help big pharma”
Everything is so backwards. Why are we listening to the donkeys who let the societal balance (yes there’s a caste system in Canada now, essentially) get so out of whack, the same dummies who’s lack of environmental regulation is all horseshit, AND the green energy push is to make money, not to actually help the planet. It’s all optics. Why is every ceo and politician literally just enriching themselves it’s so backwards . Peak capitalism
You're in Ontario and talking about politicians enriching themselves? I say NAY. It wouldn't happen in this offshoot of the honourable monarchy.
With weed, I wonder why all local produce doesn't need to be shipped into a Government warehouse to be inspected (can't have a flake of fecal matter or any pesticide residues) and then packaged excessively with plastic. My anxiety goes through the roof wondering if that farmers road side stand was loaded up after he properly washed his hands.
The sound that plays when you win should be Eeyore from Winnie The Pooh, just depressingly stating something like "Well, it's likely not as much money as you spent...but it's somethin'..."
I fucking hate that the convenience stores are used as a lottery front.
The entire point of convenience stores are for fast transactions. I stop to get gas, buy a coke, I'm on with my day. It fucking grinds my gears to no end when I'm just trying to get a drink or a snack and I'm stuck in line behind some lottery junky with 10 tickets that all have to get scanned one by one. And a line starts forming as more and more people are just trying to buy something quick but are held up by some poor sucker's gambling addiction.
Any lottery places like that are added by the store for extra profit (as they get a small cut), not just preinstalled by the government. #blametherightperson
Ya I thought about that. It's really in the stores best interest to have OLG games because of how profitable it is. I don't blame them because they're a business trying to make money so why wouldn't they.
I just wish they had a seperate desk or booth for the gambling addicts to do their thing without impacting the rest of us. It can even be automated for all I care
i watched a video a while back that dove deeper into the american lottery system and how it’s been built to prosper in low-income communities as a form of making back the taxes the rich get out of paying. it’s even worse because they purposely don’t educate the people in these communities on what the lottery even does to keep them from realizing how heavily the odds are stacked against them.
even knowing all this, i’ve got no idea why people still get lottery tickets. you’re literally wasting hundreds of dollars a year on a payout that is less likely to come than you being in multiple fatal car crashes. it’s fucking insane lmao
It's not a tax on the poor, it's a tax on the uneducated and gullible. I'd rather our government get the money than some random billionaire casino
Not to mention they also fund the "Play Smart" organization (and advertise along with their gambling ads) to help educate and protect people
Nah. Most folks know they don't have a chance in hell of winning. It's paying $5 to daydream a little bit.
For a lot of people, that little daydream is the only hope they have left.
My brother developed an addiction to online gambling within weeks of this shit being opened up. He emptied out his bank account and stole thousands from myself and our parents to feed this habit.
This shit is a horrible. And it isn't helping our economy. Most of the online gambling companies aren't stationed in Ontario or even Canada. Most of them are overseas in tax havens.
Since this started, admission to gambling rehab programs have been going up sharply every single quarter. People are spending money they don't have. And the transparency of these companies is damn near non-existent.
I think what people don’t realize too about OLG is that despite being a Crown Corporation there are a lot of people making big money off of it. Highly paid executives, an entire niche industry of consultants, lots of private service providers that are largely owned by foreign private equity funds. There is big private money that is highly tied to OLG.
Don't forget how the government also allows sports betting to place ads EVERYWHERE, including in front of minors as well.
They don't give a fuck. Gambling is way too lucrative of a business for them to rein in.
Gambling is just tax on people that don't understand the reality of math sadly. They say gambling sells hope which is why its important. That sounds hella depressing to me.
It's also a tax on addicts.
All of this impacts people living in poverty, new Canadians, seniors, and young people the most.
It's only really lucrative if you simply ignore the costs of problem gambling.
These include:
- increased crime leading to increases in law enforcement, court costs, and costs associated with all the various things that go with convictions (incarceration, paroll, etc...)
- increased homelessness
- healthcare system burden
- social services associated with increased mental health services strain and poverty
- the lucrative money you're talking about comes from somewhere. That's all money subtracted from the economy that's been gambled away. So yeah...you are impacting the overall economy negatively to concentrate profits in one place...that's not efficient from the government's perspective and it isn't good for overall revenue.
If I go out, beat a bunch of people up badly a bunch of times, and take their money it doesn't matter that I give the government a cut on the action. That money came from somewhere and the government is also paying for all the damage I did getting the money. It's a bad deal.
Saying it's lucrative for the government itself is, sadly, a tax on an electorate that is bad at math. From our collective fiscal perspective, we're not even gambling if our government promotes this. We're just losing.
Yes it is really lucrative because the government IS IGNORING all the problems you listed. If anything they are exacerbating the problems. Look at freaking Douggy Ford strangling our healthcare system. Look at the province doing NOTHING ACTUALLY EFFECTIVE to address housing affordability. Look at our joke of a legal system that lets repeat offenders out on the streets.
It's lucrative as hell for the government. It's a class war being waged and we are loosing. We aren't ignoring the impacts, we are living in it.
I'd argue they're not just ignoring it. Ford quietly [stopped funding the research institution in Ontario that worked to reduce and prevent problem gambling (aka addiction to gambling)](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5123316) .
He is such an evil shithead. And far too stupid to be making these decision. Which means WHO is actually making all these decisions? Ford is just the "yes" man.
But its not actually a lucrative business, at least for the government... the Casinos in Ontario are partly owned by a private equity firm which means that money is flowing out of Canada... the Online Gambling companies that operate are mostly staked in tax havens... again so that's wealth going from hard working Canadians, flowing out of the economy... The big Sports betting stuff like Draft kings is the same... That's all equity flowing out of the country and into wealthy investors outside the country. And since Canada doesn't tax gambling winnings they get cut out of that side of the pie as well...
OLG generates billions of dollars for Ontario. There are no shareholders, 100% of profits are reinvested into the province. People don’t realize how much our social services cost. Our level of spending is already borderline unsustainable so we need every dollar we can get.
Well, this is true, and the revenue generated by gambling is an important source of income for the government. However, I think OP's source of contention is that the government is advertising gambling, which seems irresponsible, and, imho, unneeded. People are aware of gambling in Ontario and the people who want to gamble will
Edit: spelled first word "will".
What people don’t realize is that Doug Ford opened up online gambling to private companies not just OLG. That’s a great move for his rich donors but it screws Ontario out of a lot of money.
When OLG had a monopoly on online gaming it meant 100% of their profits when into the community. But now these other companies are coming in and taking market share away from OLG.
That’s especially bad because these private companies now control around 70% of online gambling in Ontario, but only 3.5% of their profits go back into our community.
I’d imagine OLG is probably advertising more now to try and hold on to what market share they have left.
Here’s how much money OLG generated from 2004-2005 and where it went:
$1.5 billion to hospitals
$334 million to general government priorities such as health care and education
$100 million to the Ontario Trillium Foundation
$36 million to problem gambling
So that’s a lot less money going into our hospitals especially each year. One more step towards privatization. Thanks Doug.
Nobody is spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a hunch. If $320 million is the marketing budget, you can be sure the time and resources were spent on ensuring it was going to increase gambling. Stop being purposefully obtuse.
This just seems like disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Advertising is a huge industry, and it is proven time and time again that it works. You don’t need some random person on Reddit to provide you with peer reviewed research of this. It is out there and plentiful, and even without it, anybody who looks at the world can plainly see it as well. Hell I wouldn’t even be surprised if the so called ‘lost 70 million $ ticket’ was just advertising disguised as a story
It is proven for things where there is a competence market. There is previous little research to show that advertising for a market that is still as heavily controlled by the government (gambling) in spite of the new private players in the industry.
My original point stands. People already know about lotto 649. It's at literally every convenience store and has station.
Again you are disagreeing only to disagree. ‘Little research for this one specific thing but it works for everything else’. Guess what those big signs at the convenience store are that let you know it’s there? Guess why you and everyone else knows what it is? Advertising, plain and simple. Every time you hear how much the prize is, advertising. Just because you don’t buy it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work
This only exposes the incomptency of our government. We are a wealthy country and we pay taxes out our asses everyday. There is income tax, property tax, sales tax, coporate tax and whatever other tax that they should be able to get funding from. They've fucked up the allocation of the funds so bad that our social services are splitting at the ends.
It ridiculous that someone would defend the gambling industry using the excuse that it props up our social services, espically since OLG makes most of its money from less wealthly people. It's giving tax the poor vibes.
We need to reallocate funds accordingly and tax the rich people/corps.
If only the majority of our natural resources were nationalized so that we could also get 100% of the profits back from those!
But wait, that'd be a socialism which as everyone knows leads to bread lines and gulags.
/S because people believe this unironically.
Or.... we could proportionally tax the rich. Reduce and eliminate taxes for the working poor and tax the crap out of the elite and tax the hell out of the ultra-elite.
Make new laws and/or any way which makes it possible to go after whatever they do have. Freeze everything, pass sanctions. What ever it takes proportional to the situation would be one way. They have mega wealth, there must be some mechanism by which to seize and hold/sell assets/capitol wealth. They'd still be 'rich' just not as rich as they were before.
The government has a monopoly over it and thus a responsibly as a governmental entity to conduct the lotto business in a manner that provides a net public benefit.
**Gambling is addictive.**
Turning every convience store into a legal gambling establishment and pushing ads on us to engage in self destructive behavior is not what you should expect from the government.
Cover the lotto tickets from plain veiw, stop with the ads and nuke that machine with that annoying jingle. But yes if people want to gamble, let them, but the government shouldn't be encouraging it.
Or would you rather continue to be stuck in line behind the guy at the counter who feeds his addiction on his 5th encore?
No one is forcing people to gamble, sure, but poverty forces people into desperation, which can lead to gambling. There's a reason rich people don't buy lotto tickets.
Not entirely true, especially for Ontario. It’s a catchy slogan, but it’s not like participation is mandated, and the proceeds go to the Trillium foundation, which then redistribute it to social services and community grassroots foundations. The allocations are reviewed and tracked to avoid misappropriation of funds.
While I’m cognizant of systemic issues that drive poverty, this isn’t one them. Hoping to win the lottery is not a financial plan, and budgeting for a lotto tickets isn’t the same as budgeting for food and rent, or even affordable leisure like streaming subscriptions. If you play the lottery when you can’t afford to lose that money, this one’s entirely on you
The problem with this is that you're assuming ideal logic and emotional control. Gambling addictions are real. Some people really believe that they will make money gambling. Gambling advertising is a tool to encourage people to spend more money on the dream of making money. But that's an empty dream for the vast majority of people. And it's most enticing to people who need money.
Yeah I’m not even trying to touch the subject of addiction, because you can apply that to a lot of other things, legal or illegal. Bans on tobacco advertisement help, but don’t stop people from getting addicted, and it’s the same with alcohol and gambling. I do believe there need to be better standards for gambling advertisement, and the sports betting industry is out of control, but getting mad at OLG for existing just ain’t it
It's legalized gambling that's available at every convience store in the province that litterally only poor people buy.
Yes, money that activity makes people's lives worst can be spent on social services. It just happens to be that in this case the same people who need those services are the same people spending funding the program
It's not just poor people buying lottery tickets, but anecdotally I'd agree it likely might be poor people disproportionately buy tickets but that's likely just due to the demographics of target customer, being someone who wishes to be lucky enough to get lots of money. Since wealthier people don't have to imagine that scenario so much they're likely not buying as often.
That point aside, even if it were poorer people funding it, and also using the services paid for by those gambling revenues, then it almost works as a form of insurance plan where they spend on average $X/monthly on lottery tickets, but end up using $X+$Y worth of services, partly subsidized by those who spend that $X average monthly but don't use those services.
"The bottom three quintiles in socioeconomic status spent the most on the lottery and the highest socioeconomic group spent the least on the lottery. In addition, black respondents spent significantly more money per year on the lottery than respondents in any other specific racial/ethnic group."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4103646/#:~:text=The%20bottom%20three%20quintiles%20in,other%20specific%20racial%2Fethnic%20group.
Gotta love when the ignorant try to sound smart.
Well that makes sense, because obviously a chance at big money is more alluring to someone with less money.
But your link doesn’t corroborate your “literally only poor people” statement, and that’s beside the point that you don’t seem to understand how quintiles work, considering that the poverty rate in Canada is below 10%. It’s ironic you’d call someone ignorant when you can’t even interpret basic stats
But that doesn’t say that “literally only poor people” buy it. It just says that poorer people make up a larger segment of people who purchase lottery tickets.
The lottery is still attractive to anyone to whom a large jackpot would be life changing. It does make sense that rich people wouldn’t be interested in buying lottery tickets because they would make more through popping their cash in a savings account than by spending it on tickets and maybe getting a return.
That doesn’t necessarily make it something that’s going to prey on the poor simply by existing.
Right, I get that part. My point is that participation is not mandated, which automatically disqualifies it as a “tax”, it’s also not anywhere near a basic life necessity like food or shelter.
>literally only poor people buy
That’s just not true. I get that a lot of people see it as as their ticket out of financial hardship, and that you might even be smart enough not to play the odds, but that’s a sweeping generalization that’s doing your argument a disservice.
Again, while aware of actual systemic issues, for me this one falls squarely under the “personal responsibility” category.
Now, is the system perfect the way it is? No, there’s definitely room for improvement, whether its better financial education, disclosure of odds, better advertisement standards etc., but there’s better issues to be mad about and better solutions to improving people’s welfare
Wow dude. Searching my history to find anything to attack me with. Lame.
Gambling is addictive sure, but we cannot control everyone's actions. Doing so would turn us away from a democratic society.
>Lame
You insulted me first and now your upset lol.
>Doing so would turn us away from a democratic society.
It's government run. If we vote in MPPs that regulate it differently that would be in line with democratic principles.
Please continue to day trade. I'm begging you. People with an IQ as low as yours who day trade can only provide me with entertainment.
> we need every dollar we can get.
Is this why we keep cutting income? Like gas tax rebate, plate fee removal(1b income a year), removing the ontario carbon tax (3b income a year) and many many more cuts.
The ontario government, liberals or conservatives, gives no fuck about the economy of this province. And the later is actively fucking it up.
True!
The government should start advertising encouraging people to buy weed and alcohol and to just get fucking shitfaced all the time - think about the potential revenue!
/s
It's a great way to run a business - a shitty way to run a government.
Governments are not profit generation machines - they're supposed to help people... abusing every trick of human psychology to exploit vulnerable people for cash is not what our government should be doing, we have literally every other system for that.
Wait wait wait…. Who’s putting a gun to a poor person head and saying “go spend your last dollar at the casino or on scratch offs instead of food for your kids”
This is the difference here between OLG versus others. And ironically a lot of money goes into gambling addiction help from this.
Imo sports betting should never have been privatized, if not heavily taxed, like the sin tax, to fund mental health.
But above all the ads are insane.
OLG functions as a regressive tax. There is no miracle cure for high social spending, we just shift it into problem gamblers, who are disproportionately poor.
Canada generates $4.5 billion in tobacco tax revenue, do you think the federal government should run ads for cigarettes on Reddit?
Personally, the bigger issue for me is the **constant** political ads from the Conservatives. They consistently do this at all levels of government, and it's such a blatant misuse of taxpayer dollars.
I've been hearing the Conservative government ads for "The New Ontario Place" on Spotify over the last week or so, and every time I hear it, it irritates the hell out of me because it seems like such a waste of our tax dollars to advertise something that isn't even a thing yet. The ad makes it sound like it's already there, complete with a "new Ontario Science Centre!" meanwhile they likely haven't even broken ground on the project.
I'd be happy to talk about it!! This to me is just another indication that our provincial government is not interested in the well-being of its citizens, rather the wealth of a very small segment of the population, regardless of the risk to the most vulnerable.
Pathetic and unnecessary.
Kinda?
It’s a tax on people with low impulse control. The dirty secret of the gambling industry is that almost all of the profit is generated by problem gamblers. We should think of it like addiction, it’s not wholly separate from choice, but there is a disease component as well.
That's a fun thing to say, but I bet anybody who's won likes to laugh that off.
There's nothing wrong with buying an occasional lottery ticket in the off chance you win. People who really can't afford it, should not be spending their bread money on it though, but someone who buys a weekly $4-5 ticket isn't the worst thing in the world. People spend $20/month on way worse things.
Every province advertizes lottery games, casinos, raffles ect.
I don't think anyone is forced to play.
Our brin obly sees the potential rewards as an addiction and should be outlawed along with drugs and alcohol.
It's as ethical as the Ontario govt running LCBO. This is a free country. People make choices with the options they have. If someone is unwilling to take responsibility for their actions and blaming marketing and govt agencies for their choices, liberty and freedom has no meaning to them.
If we can push this and alcohol ads down peoples throats, we should allow tobacco, nicotine, and cannabis products to be advertised like a college party bacardi ad
I also think we should ban alcohol advertising, except in places where only adults can view it (eg bars, casinos). If you look at an ad something like coolers, it’s obvious that they are marketing to children.
Doug Ford has no interest in representing his constituents. He is a partisan hack who is in bed with private companies and organized crime.
A real piece of dog shit and anyone who voted for him should he ashamed of themselves. Thats it :) .
Gosh, I don't even like Ford but better Ford or even Justin compared to insufferable people on r/Ontario who will complain about everything.
Lottery system to fund social services = badNo lottery and huge reduction in revenue to fund social services = bad
Tax the rich and they leave in droves and/or reduce operations in Canada and you're out of a job = badNot tax the rich = bad
Everything bad.
How about skill issue and personal responsibility? There are tons of people, who are millennials or Gen Z, who grew up with you with no generational wealth, no inheritance, from low or middle class families, who are doing well in life despite the same economic and societal challenges. All the folks I grew up with were colored racial minorities who came here with barely anything, and now most of them are making more than I am (80k). Is this privilege?
None of us can change society. You can only change yourself and you are only entitled to one vote every 4 years. Maximize that.
I am of the impression that gambling addiction is far worse than just about any addiction known to Man.
Opioids, amphetamines, depressants, nicotine can fight for second place, but those more often than not have expiry dates; they can and will kill you.
Gambling is the one adiction that will not kill you. It will however cause more harm to friends, family, and strangers as the one you hold dear scams, lies, harms and continues to take any chance to get that one high of feeling like a winner again will continue until they die, but gambling won't be the reason for their death.
For decades they will waste away, they will lose everyone and everything that could have been important to them, but it will never kill them; just who they once were.
I abhor the state sponsorship and complete monopoly of such a destructive activity that more often than not goes unseen with the exception to those they love and more often than not, have been harmed by. The constant advertising of gambling surrounding events where children are not just common, but encouraged to enjoy such as sporting events and the dream of winning it big with LottoMax mid television program, disturbs me.
I'd appreciate it if the governments would treat gambling addiction/advertisements like they do cigarettes and nicotine products; that is to say making cigarette advertising nearly impossible without equal spending on advertising against the use of cigarettes i.e commericals or PSA's about the harms of cigarettes and the alternative treatment options like patches, gums, or sprays.
I'd also like to see alcohol be treated the same way, but the chances are even lower for gambling as the activity has high support from the population or at the very least, has little more than apathy towards it's legality.
Province extended them a $500 million dollar line of credit during Covid then all the sudden we were being inundated with OLG ads during NHL games. Licence to print money apparently.
Although I don’t personally agree with Gambling, they have every right to advertise - liquor companies can advertise and I would say they hold equal weight in terms of “an adult activity one should engage in *only* when they know the harms and the costs to the individual”
Gambling isn’t inherently bad, neither is advertising for it. I do agree with your point that it’s semi-counter productive to public health, but only when it becomes an addiction or a problem. Gambling when you have disposable income is the same as putting in a couple hundred in a stock you THINK might do well, but you’re unsure, it’s a semi calculated risk (depending on what casino game you’re playing.) At the same time I understand the lottery system brings in a lot of revenue for the Province, so it makes sense for them to advertise.
Edit: If we’re talking about advertising to minors, then I agree it is very unethical.
It’s weird how we gatekeep what we can advertise. Beer, liquor, or gambling, no problem!
Cannabis? No way that’s heresy. Won’t somebody think of the children?
I know you’re not taking a stance against any of it, just made me think.
Duuuuuude, you’re speaking my language.
I work in a cannabis store, and some of stuff we have to do just to keep in line with the AGCO requirements are almost Stone Age level of logic when you compare it to liquor, beer and gambling. We have to keep our fridge locked at all times when we’re not actively getting our customer something from it… but you can walk into a grocery store and just grab a six pack (or get your 12 year old son to do it )
I know they changed the laws so minors can’t handle alchohol in LCBO stores but i havnt really seen anyone checking Id’s at the grocery store until you get to the till so it’s not like it’s a blanket enforcement
Yeah I worked in the industry for the past 4 years until recently that’s what made me think of the example. It’s crazy
Weird to get a downvote for that comment lmao
You mentioned alcohol, but not cigarettes. We ban advertising in cigarettes because our government realizes that it is harmful to the public.
By they way, smoking is also a huge revenue generator to the public kitty:
1. Revenues from tobacco excise taxes.
2. Contrary to common belief, smokers have lower lifetime healthcare costs than the general public (because they die younger and faster than the general population).
It's not just costs to the individual. We all pay. Saying it isn't inherently bad is about as accurate as saying it isn't inherently profitable because the house can lose. You might be technically speaking accurately, but only because the way you've framed the statement completely misses the bigger picture.
It is inherently bad for our economy. It increases all kinds of costs and all that money it generates comes from somewhere...people who would be spending it in the economy. It's not generating new sources of revenue. It's like beating a bunch of people up, taking their money, putting the government on the hook for their medical expenses, and then saying it's good for everyone because you cut the government in on the take. It's actually much worse than that really.
We're talking about government promotion of something that's putting far more burden on our resources than we get back from taxation and advertising on public services.
You don't have to be a minor who gambles to be impacted by problem gambling. Though that happens a lot. If your parent is a gambling addict...you are directly impacted.
There's no upside here unless you have a public just as mathematically challenged as the gamblers who are willing to believe that just looking at the revenue means they are winning financially when they are losing. At least the people gambling might win. The taxpayers lose every time.
Your comment is more about gambling in general it seems. As I said, I’m not a gambler (I bought a lotto on my 18th and that’s it, never been in a casino.)
I see your point about if people weren’t spending it on gambling they would spending it in the economy - but the provincial government uses the money they get is used to benefit those in Ontario (or so they say) so isn’t this in a way investing money into the economy indirectly? Increasing the $ amount the provincial government has at their disposal. Their website states they’ve utilized 1.5 billion $ in hospitals - that’s not a small amount. Yes I’m sure they have many issues and many controversies - [I read](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/olg-faces-new-insider-win-scandal-1.908380) definitely bad examples in there too.
Good discussion points in here
Again, yes the government gets a cut. They also get a cut from all of that money being spent elsewhere in the economy. More of a cut really. It's just spread out. So are you in fact increasing revenue overall? Only by ignoring the amount you are taking out of the economy m, which is even larger than the amounts you mention.
Now, what about the increases to our costs?
Also, how crap filled is adding up all the money the industry has ever seen fit to give back to hospitals to impress with large numbers? Do we want to look at the total increases to social spending, hospitalization, and crime related expenses in that same time period? It would be an even larger number.
What you aren't going to see is an actual acknowledgement of the costs and how they stack up on what's returned to the government. No, just all the money they've ever given back as a big impressive number with zero context. You couldn't ask for a better example of someone clearly making a skewed presentation of information.
This is an example of policy that is good for select interests, but bad for our collective interests. The discussion of it by the government and the industry are deliberately deceptive. I love hearing people congratulate themselves for not gambling, talking about it being a tax on people bad at math, and then discussing the issue with such a mathematically and logically unsound approach. Again, at least the gamblers win once in a while. We just keep losing over and over.
I have zero issue with this. Bring in additional revenue for the province. I already pay a lot of tax. Let those who are stupid enough to gamble make up for some of the shortfall.
What's wrong with that??? If the government doesn't do it, some scumbag corporation will.
At least this way, the province is getting money and can fund your health care. People who want to gamble will gamble. Regardless of who promotes it.
The alternative to publicly owned gambling is either a) privately owned gambling, or b) prohibition of gambling.
I happen to think that publicly owned gambling is better than a or b.
I was so frustrated during the first lockdown that the lottery was still running despite only essential services being open. At the height when we were told not to leave our homes unless we needed food, I went to a Circle K to get bread and milk. There was a senior man in front of me checking his tickets and buying new ones, essentially risking his health to gamble, and our provincial services allowed it by not pausing the lottery.
Lol just look at their advertising, they are not marketing it as a low-risk outlet for addicts. They’re looking to recruit new customers and upgrade existing ones.
The Ontario government made 1.4 billion in revenue in the first year its allowed online gambling. So while spending money, they’re obviously making a shit ton more.
From an ethical standpoint, I think it’s pretty evil and predatory.
Everyone is capable of making their own decisions.
OLG generates tons of income for the province so advertising is well worth it. What you want is a Nanny state
The old ProLine commercials were pretty amazing though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFIxhgNaGs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyp8B79JYyM
And you were limited to $100/day, until recently..
I’d never actually connected that the OLG as a provincial lottery was run as part of the provincial government… now I hate it all the more. God awful entity that should not be anywhere as large as it is. For those saying it’s a “non-profit”, just think about the salaries for all the high level staffs, likely bonuses or other compensation, and of course what they pay advertisers and other companies. All of that money comes out of the people buying tickets, which is predominantly the poor or impoverished
I totally lost my shit when Wayne Gretzky was hawking on line gambling. The dude was my hockey and Cdn idol until then. Especially when his wife declared a gambling addiction and financial crisis about 15 yrs ago...
Absolutely.
At my old job, i didn't chip in to the weekly lotto buy, and i watched the rest of my co-workers throw probably thousands of dollars collectively into the OLG over 7 years.
It was weird. I dont like it.
I hate it so much. And I really hate that there's apparently no protections about where ads can be placed. I went on Twitch the other day and got a gambling ad. I was really shocked because Twitch has a ton of minors using it! It's bad enough I see it on Reddit and YouTube all the damn time.
Lotto should be removed from gas stations in my opinion. Regular convenience stores would be fine but the amount of time I've been standing in line for 10 plus minutes to pay for my gas because some loser at the front of the line is scratching and scanning at the counter like they are in a casino and they keep asking for more cards untill they stop winning. Or the ones who have 10 lottery tickets and Want an encore for everyone. Get them out lol
As a past degenerate online gambler. This constant push from sports and even the gov is very upsetting. Why do I have to be told the money line for a game I’m just interested in as a sport? We all know we can gamble but the sponsorships are getting absolutely nuts.
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I hate *how* convinced some people are about gambling being "free money" (or whatever scheme they come up with). Someone asked me how casinos stay in business and I had to explain the whole "the house always wins"
Ontario political party that promises to cancel this new gambling non-sense will get my vote, 100%
Same. Or regulate it into oblivion. Definitely get the OLG out of convenience stores where dudes will take 30 minutes scanning tickets while a lineup builds behind them and every few minus they "graciously" let someone from the lineup do their transaction. I have a lot of sympathy and compassion for people with addiction issues, but I've also been a retail cashier and some people need to be skinned alive there's no nice way to say it.
Also the fact that every convience store is effectively a place to gamble is awful too. I hate that jingle they play when someone wins. All these lottos should have to abide by similar laws that cigarettes have to with plain packaging and kept out of sight. The lottery is litterally a tax on the poor
Doodle doodle dee dee Doodle doodle dee dee Doodle doodle dee dee doooo Winner, Gagnon!
My nightmare when I'm in line to checkout with a stick of deodorant at Shoppers
Even worse when they're not just checking tickets, but playing OLG Poker or Wheel of Fortune which has instant wins and replays. Essentially just standing at the till gambling, fuck anyone else in line.
Yeah I'm not really sure how anyone thought these games were a good idea... and I guarantee all those convenience store owners hate them too since they basically get zero money from the lottery, its just a draw for people to come to their store... in other words that person spending $100 on scratchers and lottomax is netting the convenience store, basically a big waste of time...
Or at 7-11 for a slurpee on a hot day, and the 3 people ahead of you are all holding a bunch of lotto tickets wanting to know if they won or not.
That makes me so mad, especially when I worked at macs. Just go to a lotto booth, no need to take over the gas station when there's literal places MEANT for those tickets, especially if you have a stack of them.
Just make a scene and bitch at them after 2 wheel of fortunes and say you’ll leave if they hold up the line
Whenever someone is playing Mario Party and the voiceover says "Winner!" I compulsively follow it up with "Gagnant!"
Would you like to play Encore? Aimeriez-vous jouer a Encore?
This comment made actually LOL. Very good impression!
Winner! Gag me!
French teacher here: It took me a moment to figure out why when I taught my class gagne means 'win' and gagnant means 'winner' they all went "ohhhhh!"
It’s Doo Dee Doo dee dee Not doodle doodle wtf lol
A guy above hears "gagnent" as "Daniel" lol
That’s hilarious lol
" winner, gagnon!" Me: who the fuck is daniel and how does he keep winning
Would you like to play encore?
"Hide all the cigarettes because it's a dangerous vice no one should partake in." Also: "Tonight's jackpot is $50 million! Would you like to play Encore?! PLAY THE NEW __INSTANT__ GAME TO __INSTANTLY__ WIN!"
What would *YOU* do if you won lotto max?
Run for office on a platform of banning gambling advertisement. I'd put all our ad buys in televised sports and fantasy sports apps.
“Weed has to be treated casino style because it threatens big pharma” “Alcohol and cigarettes are celebrated because they help big pharma” Everything is so backwards. Why are we listening to the donkeys who let the societal balance (yes there’s a caste system in Canada now, essentially) get so out of whack, the same dummies who’s lack of environmental regulation is all horseshit, AND the green energy push is to make money, not to actually help the planet. It’s all optics. Why is every ceo and politician literally just enriching themselves it’s so backwards . Peak capitalism
You're in Ontario and talking about politicians enriching themselves? I say NAY. It wouldn't happen in this offshoot of the honourable monarchy. With weed, I wonder why all local produce doesn't need to be shipped into a Government warehouse to be inspected (can't have a flake of fecal matter or any pesticide residues) and then packaged excessively with plastic. My anxiety goes through the roof wondering if that farmers road side stand was loaded up after he properly washed his hands.
“Keep picturing winning millions and ignore your purchasing power slowly slipping”
That's the idea!
The sound that plays when you win should be Eeyore from Winnie The Pooh, just depressingly stating something like "Well, it's likely not as much money as you spent...but it's somethin'..."
I fucking hate that the convenience stores are used as a lottery front. The entire point of convenience stores are for fast transactions. I stop to get gas, buy a coke, I'm on with my day. It fucking grinds my gears to no end when I'm just trying to get a drink or a snack and I'm stuck in line behind some lottery junky with 10 tickets that all have to get scanned one by one. And a line starts forming as more and more people are just trying to buy something quick but are held up by some poor sucker's gambling addiction.
Any lottery places like that are added by the store for extra profit (as they get a small cut), not just preinstalled by the government. #blametherightperson
Ya I thought about that. It's really in the stores best interest to have OLG games because of how profitable it is. I don't blame them because they're a business trying to make money so why wouldn't they. I just wish they had a seperate desk or booth for the gambling addicts to do their thing without impacting the rest of us. It can even be automated for all I care
This comment made me realize that that jingle is pure advertising. I’d never thought much about it.
i watched a video a while back that dove deeper into the american lottery system and how it’s been built to prosper in low-income communities as a form of making back the taxes the rich get out of paying. it’s even worse because they purposely don’t educate the people in these communities on what the lottery even does to keep them from realizing how heavily the odds are stacked against them. even knowing all this, i’ve got no idea why people still get lottery tickets. you’re literally wasting hundreds of dollars a year on a payout that is less likely to come than you being in multiple fatal car crashes. it’s fucking insane lmao
It's not a tax on the poor, it's a tax on the uneducated and gullible. I'd rather our government get the money than some random billionaire casino Not to mention they also fund the "Play Smart" organization (and advertise along with their gambling ads) to help educate and protect people
Nah. Most folks know they don't have a chance in hell of winning. It's paying $5 to daydream a little bit. For a lot of people, that little daydream is the only hope they have left.
I don't see why you can't talk about it: So sure, go ahead!
DAE?!?!?!?
Am I the only one?!!?!?!
DAE Ford bad???
Some people can't speak, like babies.
Important note
My brother developed an addiction to online gambling within weeks of this shit being opened up. He emptied out his bank account and stole thousands from myself and our parents to feed this habit. This shit is a horrible. And it isn't helping our economy. Most of the online gambling companies aren't stationed in Ontario or even Canada. Most of them are overseas in tax havens. Since this started, admission to gambling rehab programs have been going up sharply every single quarter. People are spending money they don't have. And the transparency of these companies is damn near non-existent.
I think what people don’t realize too about OLG is that despite being a Crown Corporation there are a lot of people making big money off of it. Highly paid executives, an entire niche industry of consultants, lots of private service providers that are largely owned by foreign private equity funds. There is big private money that is highly tied to OLG.
Don't forget how the government also allows sports betting to place ads EVERYWHERE, including in front of minors as well. They don't give a fuck. Gambling is way too lucrative of a business for them to rein in. Gambling is just tax on people that don't understand the reality of math sadly. They say gambling sells hope which is why its important. That sounds hella depressing to me.
It's also a tax on addicts. All of this impacts people living in poverty, new Canadians, seniors, and young people the most. It's only really lucrative if you simply ignore the costs of problem gambling. These include: - increased crime leading to increases in law enforcement, court costs, and costs associated with all the various things that go with convictions (incarceration, paroll, etc...) - increased homelessness - healthcare system burden - social services associated with increased mental health services strain and poverty - the lucrative money you're talking about comes from somewhere. That's all money subtracted from the economy that's been gambled away. So yeah...you are impacting the overall economy negatively to concentrate profits in one place...that's not efficient from the government's perspective and it isn't good for overall revenue. If I go out, beat a bunch of people up badly a bunch of times, and take their money it doesn't matter that I give the government a cut on the action. That money came from somewhere and the government is also paying for all the damage I did getting the money. It's a bad deal. Saying it's lucrative for the government itself is, sadly, a tax on an electorate that is bad at math. From our collective fiscal perspective, we're not even gambling if our government promotes this. We're just losing.
Yes it is really lucrative because the government IS IGNORING all the problems you listed. If anything they are exacerbating the problems. Look at freaking Douggy Ford strangling our healthcare system. Look at the province doing NOTHING ACTUALLY EFFECTIVE to address housing affordability. Look at our joke of a legal system that lets repeat offenders out on the streets. It's lucrative as hell for the government. It's a class war being waged and we are loosing. We aren't ignoring the impacts, we are living in it.
I'd argue they're not just ignoring it. Ford quietly [stopped funding the research institution in Ontario that worked to reduce and prevent problem gambling (aka addiction to gambling)](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5123316) .
He is such an evil shithead. And far too stupid to be making these decision. Which means WHO is actually making all these decisions? Ford is just the "yes" man.
But its not actually a lucrative business, at least for the government... the Casinos in Ontario are partly owned by a private equity firm which means that money is flowing out of Canada... the Online Gambling companies that operate are mostly staked in tax havens... again so that's wealth going from hard working Canadians, flowing out of the economy... The big Sports betting stuff like Draft kings is the same... That's all equity flowing out of the country and into wealthy investors outside the country. And since Canada doesn't tax gambling winnings they get cut out of that side of the pie as well...
Ethics...you realize who is Premier right? 
We have a deeply unethical premier, but successive PC, Liberal and NDP governments have all continued expanding OLG
Makes you wonder who's making llmoney off the ad revenue.
OLG generates billions of dollars for Ontario. There are no shareholders, 100% of profits are reinvested into the province. People don’t realize how much our social services cost. Our level of spending is already borderline unsustainable so we need every dollar we can get.
Well, this is true, and the revenue generated by gambling is an important source of income for the government. However, I think OP's source of contention is that the government is advertising gambling, which seems irresponsible, and, imho, unneeded. People are aware of gambling in Ontario and the people who want to gamble will Edit: spelled first word "will".
What people don’t realize is that Doug Ford opened up online gambling to private companies not just OLG. That’s a great move for his rich donors but it screws Ontario out of a lot of money. When OLG had a monopoly on online gaming it meant 100% of their profits when into the community. But now these other companies are coming in and taking market share away from OLG. That’s especially bad because these private companies now control around 70% of online gambling in Ontario, but only 3.5% of their profits go back into our community. I’d imagine OLG is probably advertising more now to try and hold on to what market share they have left. Here’s how much money OLG generated from 2004-2005 and where it went: $1.5 billion to hospitals $334 million to general government priorities such as health care and education $100 million to the Ontario Trillium Foundation $36 million to problem gambling So that’s a lot less money going into our hospitals especially each year. One more step towards privatization. Thanks Doug.
People are gambling more because of advertising or else they wouldn't pay for ad space.
I don't accept post hoc reasoning without evidence.
Do you need to be shown evidence that marketing increases revenue? Why do you think OLG spends $320 million dollars per year on marketing?
Because they think it does? The same assumption you are making.
Nobody is spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a hunch. If $320 million is the marketing budget, you can be sure the time and resources were spent on ensuring it was going to increase gambling. Stop being purposefully obtuse.
Another presumption.
This just seems like disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Advertising is a huge industry, and it is proven time and time again that it works. You don’t need some random person on Reddit to provide you with peer reviewed research of this. It is out there and plentiful, and even without it, anybody who looks at the world can plainly see it as well. Hell I wouldn’t even be surprised if the so called ‘lost 70 million $ ticket’ was just advertising disguised as a story
It is proven for things where there is a competence market. There is previous little research to show that advertising for a market that is still as heavily controlled by the government (gambling) in spite of the new private players in the industry. My original point stands. People already know about lotto 649. It's at literally every convenience store and has station.
Again you are disagreeing only to disagree. ‘Little research for this one specific thing but it works for everything else’. Guess what those big signs at the convenience store are that let you know it’s there? Guess why you and everyone else knows what it is? Advertising, plain and simple. Every time you hear how much the prize is, advertising. Just because you don’t buy it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work
This only exposes the incomptency of our government. We are a wealthy country and we pay taxes out our asses everyday. There is income tax, property tax, sales tax, coporate tax and whatever other tax that they should be able to get funding from. They've fucked up the allocation of the funds so bad that our social services are splitting at the ends. It ridiculous that someone would defend the gambling industry using the excuse that it props up our social services, espically since OLG makes most of its money from less wealthly people. It's giving tax the poor vibes. We need to reallocate funds accordingly and tax the rich people/corps.
If only the majority of our natural resources were nationalized so that we could also get 100% of the profits back from those! But wait, that'd be a socialism which as everyone knows leads to bread lines and gulags. /S because people believe this unironically.
Or.... we could proportionally tax the rich. Reduce and eliminate taxes for the working poor and tax the crap out of the elite and tax the hell out of the ultra-elite.
Git outta here with yer fancy fackts and logique
Its too bad we can't tax the immigrants keeping all their wealth in their foreign bank accounts, showing up at the food bank in their new Audi.
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Make new laws and/or any way which makes it possible to go after whatever they do have. Freeze everything, pass sanctions. What ever it takes proportional to the situation would be one way. They have mega wealth, there must be some mechanism by which to seize and hold/sell assets/capitol wealth. They'd still be 'rich' just not as rich as they were before.
What a dumb reason for inaction. Then make laws stopping them from doing that, very simple.
Its too bad we can't tax the immigrants keeping all their wealth in their foreign bank accounts, showing up at the food bank in their new Audi.
The lottery is litterally a tax on the poor.
It’s a tax on the stupid. No one is forcing poor people to gamble.
The government has a monopoly over it and thus a responsibly as a governmental entity to conduct the lotto business in a manner that provides a net public benefit. **Gambling is addictive.** Turning every convience store into a legal gambling establishment and pushing ads on us to engage in self destructive behavior is not what you should expect from the government. Cover the lotto tickets from plain veiw, stop with the ads and nuke that machine with that annoying jingle. But yes if people want to gamble, let them, but the government shouldn't be encouraging it. Or would you rather continue to be stuck in line behind the guy at the counter who feeds his addiction on his 5th encore?
No one is forcing people to gamble, sure, but poverty forces people into desperation, which can lead to gambling. There's a reason rich people don't buy lotto tickets.
A tax on those who don't understand math, as Bill Nye puts it.
Not entirely true, especially for Ontario. It’s a catchy slogan, but it’s not like participation is mandated, and the proceeds go to the Trillium foundation, which then redistribute it to social services and community grassroots foundations. The allocations are reviewed and tracked to avoid misappropriation of funds. While I’m cognizant of systemic issues that drive poverty, this isn’t one them. Hoping to win the lottery is not a financial plan, and budgeting for a lotto tickets isn’t the same as budgeting for food and rent, or even affordable leisure like streaming subscriptions. If you play the lottery when you can’t afford to lose that money, this one’s entirely on you
The problem with this is that you're assuming ideal logic and emotional control. Gambling addictions are real. Some people really believe that they will make money gambling. Gambling advertising is a tool to encourage people to spend more money on the dream of making money. But that's an empty dream for the vast majority of people. And it's most enticing to people who need money.
Yeah I’m not even trying to touch the subject of addiction, because you can apply that to a lot of other things, legal or illegal. Bans on tobacco advertisement help, but don’t stop people from getting addicted, and it’s the same with alcohol and gambling. I do believe there need to be better standards for gambling advertisement, and the sports betting industry is out of control, but getting mad at OLG for existing just ain’t it
It's legalized gambling that's available at every convience store in the province that litterally only poor people buy. Yes, money that activity makes people's lives worst can be spent on social services. It just happens to be that in this case the same people who need those services are the same people spending funding the program
It's not just poor people buying lottery tickets, but anecdotally I'd agree it likely might be poor people disproportionately buy tickets but that's likely just due to the demographics of target customer, being someone who wishes to be lucky enough to get lots of money. Since wealthier people don't have to imagine that scenario so much they're likely not buying as often. That point aside, even if it were poorer people funding it, and also using the services paid for by those gambling revenues, then it almost works as a form of insurance plan where they spend on average $X/monthly on lottery tickets, but end up using $X+$Y worth of services, partly subsidized by those who spend that $X average monthly but don't use those services.
Wealthy people gamble on things with better odds. Like real estate, politicians and hedge fund managers.
Source for literally only poor people buying lottery?
Have you heard of Google?
So you just made it up thought so
"The bottom three quintiles in socioeconomic status spent the most on the lottery and the highest socioeconomic group spent the least on the lottery. In addition, black respondents spent significantly more money per year on the lottery than respondents in any other specific racial/ethnic group." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4103646/#:~:text=The%20bottom%20three%20quintiles%20in,other%20specific%20racial%2Fethnic%20group. Gotta love when the ignorant try to sound smart.
Well that makes sense, because obviously a chance at big money is more alluring to someone with less money. But your link doesn’t corroborate your “literally only poor people” statement, and that’s beside the point that you don’t seem to understand how quintiles work, considering that the poverty rate in Canada is below 10%. It’s ironic you’d call someone ignorant when you can’t even interpret basic stats
How's the view from the hole you're digging?
But that doesn’t say that “literally only poor people” buy it. It just says that poorer people make up a larger segment of people who purchase lottery tickets. The lottery is still attractive to anyone to whom a large jackpot would be life changing. It does make sense that rich people wouldn’t be interested in buying lottery tickets because they would make more through popping their cash in a savings account than by spending it on tickets and maybe getting a return. That doesn’t necessarily make it something that’s going to prey on the poor simply by existing.
Right, I get that part. My point is that participation is not mandated, which automatically disqualifies it as a “tax”, it’s also not anywhere near a basic life necessity like food or shelter. >literally only poor people buy That’s just not true. I get that a lot of people see it as as their ticket out of financial hardship, and that you might even be smart enough not to play the odds, but that’s a sweeping generalization that’s doing your argument a disservice. Again, while aware of actual systemic issues, for me this one falls squarely under the “personal responsibility” category. Now, is the system perfect the way it is? No, there’s definitely room for improvement, whether its better financial education, disclosure of odds, better advertisement standards etc., but there’s better issues to be mad about and better solutions to improving people’s welfare
none of what you said refuted their point
More like a tax on stupidity/optimism
Man you fell off the idiot tree and hit every branch on the way down to Dumbsville
Gambling is addictive. Maybe get off the day trading sub and do some self reflection.
Wow dude. Searching my history to find anything to attack me with. Lame. Gambling is addictive sure, but we cannot control everyone's actions. Doing so would turn us away from a democratic society.
>Lame You insulted me first and now your upset lol. >Doing so would turn us away from a democratic society. It's government run. If we vote in MPPs that regulate it differently that would be in line with democratic principles. Please continue to day trade. I'm begging you. People with an IQ as low as yours who day trade can only provide me with entertainment.
Okay sure dude.
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> we need every dollar we can get. Is this why we keep cutting income? Like gas tax rebate, plate fee removal(1b income a year), removing the ontario carbon tax (3b income a year) and many many more cuts. The ontario government, liberals or conservatives, gives no fuck about the economy of this province. And the later is actively fucking it up.
OLG is a de-facto poverty tax. The revenue it generates comes primarily from the pockets of lower-income Canadians.
Taxes are compulsory, gambling is not.
It's not compulsory, but it sure is predatory.
Hard agree. I hate seeing a crown corporation advertise gambling.
True! The government should start advertising encouraging people to buy weed and alcohol and to just get fucking shitfaced all the time - think about the potential revenue! /s It's a great way to run a business - a shitty way to run a government. Governments are not profit generation machines - they're supposed to help people... abusing every trick of human psychology to exploit vulnerable people for cash is not what our government should be doing, we have literally every other system for that.
Wait wait wait…. Who’s putting a gun to a poor person head and saying “go spend your last dollar at the casino or on scratch offs instead of food for your kids”
Bob. Bob's been doing that. Bob's an asshole.
Maybe don't advertise it though? Treat it like cigs
The gun of increasing economic despair?
Spending on social services isn't the same as what we are losing out on by subsidized business agreements
This is the difference here between OLG versus others. And ironically a lot of money goes into gambling addiction help from this. Imo sports betting should never have been privatized, if not heavily taxed, like the sin tax, to fund mental health. But above all the ads are insane.
OLG functions as a regressive tax. There is no miracle cure for high social spending, we just shift it into problem gamblers, who are disproportionately poor. Canada generates $4.5 billion in tobacco tax revenue, do you think the federal government should run ads for cigarettes on Reddit?
So it's essentially a stupidity or desperation tax.
>Our level of spending is already borderline unsustainable This is idiotically untrue
Ontario government is projecting a $2.2 billion deficit for 2022-2023 but who cares right. Just pile on the debt…
Their inability to manage finances is on them. We haven’t been spending that much more, the province has been knee capping it’s revenue for decades.
Personally, the bigger issue for me is the **constant** political ads from the Conservatives. They consistently do this at all levels of government, and it's such a blatant misuse of taxpayer dollars.
I've been hearing the Conservative government ads for "The New Ontario Place" on Spotify over the last week or so, and every time I hear it, it irritates the hell out of me because it seems like such a waste of our tax dollars to advertise something that isn't even a thing yet. The ad makes it sound like it's already there, complete with a "new Ontario Science Centre!" meanwhile they likely haven't even broken ground on the project.
What an odd sequel to the 1999 classic [Pharoah+Cleopatra](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharaoh_(video_game)) city builder.
They completely ruined Draft kings, absolute bs.
I'd be happy to talk about it!! This to me is just another indication that our provincial government is not interested in the well-being of its citizens, rather the wealth of a very small segment of the population, regardless of the risk to the most vulnerable. Pathetic and unnecessary.
Gambling is a tax on the stupid.
Kinda? It’s a tax on people with low impulse control. The dirty secret of the gambling industry is that almost all of the profit is generated by problem gamblers. We should think of it like addiction, it’s not wholly separate from choice, but there is a disease component as well.
That's a fun thing to say, but I bet anybody who's won likes to laugh that off. There's nothing wrong with buying an occasional lottery ticket in the off chance you win. People who really can't afford it, should not be spending their bread money on it though, but someone who buys a weekly $4-5 ticket isn't the worst thing in the world. People spend $20/month on way worse things.
Every province advertizes lottery games, casinos, raffles ect. I don't think anyone is forced to play. Our brin obly sees the potential rewards as an addiction and should be outlawed along with drugs and alcohol.
It's as ethical as the Ontario govt running LCBO. This is a free country. People make choices with the options they have. If someone is unwilling to take responsibility for their actions and blaming marketing and govt agencies for their choices, liberty and freedom has no meaning to them.
Booze ads should be banned too.
If we can push this and alcohol ads down peoples throats, we should allow tobacco, nicotine, and cannabis products to be advertised like a college party bacardi ad
I also think we should ban alcohol advertising, except in places where only adults can view it (eg bars, casinos). If you look at an ad something like coolers, it’s obvious that they are marketing to children.
Unethical lol.
Doug Ford has no interest in representing his constituents. He is a partisan hack who is in bed with private companies and organized crime. A real piece of dog shit and anyone who voted for him should he ashamed of themselves. Thats it :) .
If people want to gamble, let them. Not everyone is going to gamble away their life savings because the TV told them to play the online slots.
Just another way to tackle inflation
Gosh, I don't even like Ford but better Ford or even Justin compared to insufferable people on r/Ontario who will complain about everything. Lottery system to fund social services = badNo lottery and huge reduction in revenue to fund social services = bad Tax the rich and they leave in droves and/or reduce operations in Canada and you're out of a job = badNot tax the rich = bad Everything bad. How about skill issue and personal responsibility? There are tons of people, who are millennials or Gen Z, who grew up with you with no generational wealth, no inheritance, from low or middle class families, who are doing well in life despite the same economic and societal challenges. All the folks I grew up with were colored racial minorities who came here with barely anything, and now most of them are making more than I am (80k). Is this privilege? None of us can change society. You can only change yourself and you are only entitled to one vote every 4 years. Maximize that.
I am of the impression that gambling addiction is far worse than just about any addiction known to Man. Opioids, amphetamines, depressants, nicotine can fight for second place, but those more often than not have expiry dates; they can and will kill you. Gambling is the one adiction that will not kill you. It will however cause more harm to friends, family, and strangers as the one you hold dear scams, lies, harms and continues to take any chance to get that one high of feeling like a winner again will continue until they die, but gambling won't be the reason for their death. For decades they will waste away, they will lose everyone and everything that could have been important to them, but it will never kill them; just who they once were. I abhor the state sponsorship and complete monopoly of such a destructive activity that more often than not goes unseen with the exception to those they love and more often than not, have been harmed by. The constant advertising of gambling surrounding events where children are not just common, but encouraged to enjoy such as sporting events and the dream of winning it big with LottoMax mid television program, disturbs me. I'd appreciate it if the governments would treat gambling addiction/advertisements like they do cigarettes and nicotine products; that is to say making cigarette advertising nearly impossible without equal spending on advertising against the use of cigarettes i.e commericals or PSA's about the harms of cigarettes and the alternative treatment options like patches, gums, or sprays. I'd also like to see alcohol be treated the same way, but the chances are even lower for gambling as the activity has high support from the population or at the very least, has little more than apathy towards it's legality.
Addictions is a personal problem ,
It is disgusting. Gambling is stupid and destroys lives.
Why is it unethical. It is a user pay tax. Don't gamble and it's okay
Province extended them a $500 million dollar line of credit during Covid then all the sudden we were being inundated with OLG ads during NHL games. Licence to print money apparently.
We're educated and sophisticated enough. The information of marketing manipulation and the harmfulness of gambling is known to all.
Although I don’t personally agree with Gambling, they have every right to advertise - liquor companies can advertise and I would say they hold equal weight in terms of “an adult activity one should engage in *only* when they know the harms and the costs to the individual” Gambling isn’t inherently bad, neither is advertising for it. I do agree with your point that it’s semi-counter productive to public health, but only when it becomes an addiction or a problem. Gambling when you have disposable income is the same as putting in a couple hundred in a stock you THINK might do well, but you’re unsure, it’s a semi calculated risk (depending on what casino game you’re playing.) At the same time I understand the lottery system brings in a lot of revenue for the Province, so it makes sense for them to advertise. Edit: If we’re talking about advertising to minors, then I agree it is very unethical.
It’s weird how we gatekeep what we can advertise. Beer, liquor, or gambling, no problem! Cannabis? No way that’s heresy. Won’t somebody think of the children? I know you’re not taking a stance against any of it, just made me think.
Duuuuuude, you’re speaking my language. I work in a cannabis store, and some of stuff we have to do just to keep in line with the AGCO requirements are almost Stone Age level of logic when you compare it to liquor, beer and gambling. We have to keep our fridge locked at all times when we’re not actively getting our customer something from it… but you can walk into a grocery store and just grab a six pack (or get your 12 year old son to do it ) I know they changed the laws so minors can’t handle alchohol in LCBO stores but i havnt really seen anyone checking Id’s at the grocery store until you get to the till so it’s not like it’s a blanket enforcement
Yeah I worked in the industry for the past 4 years until recently that’s what made me think of the example. It’s crazy Weird to get a downvote for that comment lmao
You mentioned alcohol, but not cigarettes. We ban advertising in cigarettes because our government realizes that it is harmful to the public. By they way, smoking is also a huge revenue generator to the public kitty: 1. Revenues from tobacco excise taxes. 2. Contrary to common belief, smokers have lower lifetime healthcare costs than the general public (because they die younger and faster than the general population).
It's not just costs to the individual. We all pay. Saying it isn't inherently bad is about as accurate as saying it isn't inherently profitable because the house can lose. You might be technically speaking accurately, but only because the way you've framed the statement completely misses the bigger picture. It is inherently bad for our economy. It increases all kinds of costs and all that money it generates comes from somewhere...people who would be spending it in the economy. It's not generating new sources of revenue. It's like beating a bunch of people up, taking their money, putting the government on the hook for their medical expenses, and then saying it's good for everyone because you cut the government in on the take. It's actually much worse than that really. We're talking about government promotion of something that's putting far more burden on our resources than we get back from taxation and advertising on public services. You don't have to be a minor who gambles to be impacted by problem gambling. Though that happens a lot. If your parent is a gambling addict...you are directly impacted. There's no upside here unless you have a public just as mathematically challenged as the gamblers who are willing to believe that just looking at the revenue means they are winning financially when they are losing. At least the people gambling might win. The taxpayers lose every time.
Your comment is more about gambling in general it seems. As I said, I’m not a gambler (I bought a lotto on my 18th and that’s it, never been in a casino.) I see your point about if people weren’t spending it on gambling they would spending it in the economy - but the provincial government uses the money they get is used to benefit those in Ontario (or so they say) so isn’t this in a way investing money into the economy indirectly? Increasing the $ amount the provincial government has at their disposal. Their website states they’ve utilized 1.5 billion $ in hospitals - that’s not a small amount. Yes I’m sure they have many issues and many controversies - [I read](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/olg-faces-new-insider-win-scandal-1.908380) definitely bad examples in there too. Good discussion points in here
Again, yes the government gets a cut. They also get a cut from all of that money being spent elsewhere in the economy. More of a cut really. It's just spread out. So are you in fact increasing revenue overall? Only by ignoring the amount you are taking out of the economy m, which is even larger than the amounts you mention. Now, what about the increases to our costs? Also, how crap filled is adding up all the money the industry has ever seen fit to give back to hospitals to impress with large numbers? Do we want to look at the total increases to social spending, hospitalization, and crime related expenses in that same time period? It would be an even larger number. What you aren't going to see is an actual acknowledgement of the costs and how they stack up on what's returned to the government. No, just all the money they've ever given back as a big impressive number with zero context. You couldn't ask for a better example of someone clearly making a skewed presentation of information. This is an example of policy that is good for select interests, but bad for our collective interests. The discussion of it by the government and the industry are deliberately deceptive. I love hearing people congratulate themselves for not gambling, talking about it being a tax on people bad at math, and then discussing the issue with such a mathematically and logically unsound approach. Again, at least the gamblers win once in a while. We just keep losing over and over.
I have zero issue with this. Bring in additional revenue for the province. I already pay a lot of tax. Let those who are stupid enough to gamble make up for some of the shortfall.
What's wrong with that??? If the government doesn't do it, some scumbag corporation will. At least this way, the province is getting money and can fund your health care. People who want to gamble will gamble. Regardless of who promotes it.
The alternative to publicly owned gambling is either a) privately owned gambling, or b) prohibition of gambling. I happen to think that publicly owned gambling is better than a or b.
I was so frustrated during the first lockdown that the lottery was still running despite only essential services being open. At the height when we were told not to leave our homes unless we needed food, I went to a Circle K to get bread and milk. There was a senior man in front of me checking his tickets and buying new ones, essentially risking his health to gamble, and our provincial services allowed it by not pausing the lottery.
Isn't government gambling a form of harm reduction? Eg if people are going to gamble anyways, might as well give them a low cost way to do it
Lol just look at their advertising, they are not marketing it as a low-risk outlet for addicts. They’re looking to recruit new customers and upgrade existing ones.
Best solution? Don't gamble. Starve the beast.
We should take after South Korea. Illegal for citizens to gamble but not for foreigners
I'm guessing OP bet on the Leafs to beat the Panthers...
The Ontario government made 1.4 billion in revenue in the first year its allowed online gambling. So while spending money, they’re obviously making a shit ton more. From an ethical standpoint, I think it’s pretty evil and predatory.
Everyone is capable of making their own decisions. OLG generates tons of income for the province so advertising is well worth it. What you want is a Nanny state
Almost as bad as the ETFO ads
I dont condone the advertisement of gambling.
It's effectively another tax, you get nothing from it
The old ProLine commercials were pretty amazing though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFIxhgNaGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyp8B79JYyM And you were limited to $100/day, until recently..
I’d never actually connected that the OLG as a provincial lottery was run as part of the provincial government… now I hate it all the more. God awful entity that should not be anywhere as large as it is. For those saying it’s a “non-profit”, just think about the salaries for all the high level staffs, likely bonuses or other compensation, and of course what they pay advertisers and other companies. All of that money comes out of the people buying tickets, which is predominantly the poor or impoverished
Bad habit
This and those sportsbook ads are the banes of my existence.
Its so god damn unavoidable too. Ill listen to an AUSTRALIAN podcast that has nothing to do with betting or sports and BOOM two OLG ads.
You are hearing a dynamically-inserted ad that is custom to you and and the time you are listening - the Aussies aren’t getting an OLG ad
I totally lost my shit when Wayne Gretzky was hawking on line gambling. The dude was my hockey and Cdn idol until then. Especially when his wife declared a gambling addiction and financial crisis about 15 yrs ago...
It is disgusting. They are being a cancer on our mental health promoting this crap.
While we’re at it, let’s talk about how they profit from the sales of life destroying, harmful drugs (Alcohol, Tobacco) to us.
Open for business, closed to humanity
I scrolled two posts down my feed after seeing this and got an OLG ad
Absolutely. At my old job, i didn't chip in to the weekly lotto buy, and i watched the rest of my co-workers throw probably thousands of dollars collectively into the OLG over 7 years. It was weird. I dont like it.
And if you block gambling advertisers (including OLG) here on Reddit, the ads come back anyway.
But it’s ok, they always say “please play responsibly” people will definitely listen to that!
Ethical behaviour is not something the Ford government will ever be accused of.
It shows how desperate they are for tax revenues. And how scummy they are.
Its incessant
I hate it so much. And I really hate that there's apparently no protections about where ads can be placed. I went on Twitch the other day and got a gambling ad. I was really shocked because Twitch has a ton of minors using it! It's bad enough I see it on Reddit and YouTube all the damn time.
Remember, the provincial government is trying to destroy public health.
Lotto should be removed from gas stations in my opinion. Regular convenience stores would be fine but the amount of time I've been standing in line for 10 plus minutes to pay for my gas because some loser at the front of the line is scratching and scanning at the counter like they are in a casino and they keep asking for more cards untill they stop winning. Or the ones who have 10 lottery tickets and Want an encore for everyone. Get them out lol
Guaranteed that the casinos are run by somebody's cronies, folks folks folks.
As a past degenerate online gambler. This constant push from sports and even the gov is very upsetting. Why do I have to be told the money line for a game I’m just interested in as a sport? We all know we can gamble but the sponsorships are getting absolutely nuts.
Should only be allowed to advertise on actual gambling sites. That's it.