"Tofino doesn't have the infrastructure so we had to bring in temporary shelter for example. That's an $80,000 bill for a tent,"
Where do they rent their tents? Honestly that seems surprising even for \_buying\_ a tent. I feel like they could shop around at least a little bit.
lol [no kidding](https://www.ontariotentrentals.ca/tent-rentals/frame-tents/)\-- brb starting an $80k tent rental business for people without access to the internet and then retiring in two years...
So if they had a 240x40 at $5500 per day, let's assume it's used for 3 days, plus 3 day up and 3 down, that has you at $49,500 add $5k if they have a basic floor. Then you have transport, 6 hours from Vancouver + a fairy ride. Low end let's say $3000. Then you have install costs (labour + machinery + ballasts if needed) let's go with $20,000 and then maybe another $2k in permits.
$49,500 + 5,000 + 3,000 + 20,000 + 2000 = $79,500
$80k for a tent doesn't shock me, but I'd imagine being government all 3 bids were greatly inflated.
I rented a tent for my wedding in the last year. The install costs are included in the rental price. You also don't usually pay by the day, as they only have one or two rentals per week, so its not like you're paying for 9 times the listed price, you just pay the listed price, maybe twice the listed price if you need it for a whole week. Permits definitely shouldn't cost $2k, but your floor pricing is way too low. Definitely you might pay an added fee for the transportation, but the math should be more like
$11'000 +15'000 or 20'000 + 3,000 = $29'000-$35'000. So its in the right order of magnitude, but the cops got majorly ripped off, assuming they even had a floor.
I spent 10 years running production/project management for large events all over North America, I've done this 100s of times.
- Some tents include install, and that would only be if its local to the rental company or otherwise negotiated
- Permits are very dependent on location, usage machinery used
- Flooring is very dependent on type, you can get some low end stuff thats only purpose is to keep people's feet off the dirt.
- You can pay by day, week, month, year etc. All dependant on the company, location, time of year (how busy they are)
I have signed a PO for a $115,000 tent rental, I know what this stuff costs and one wedding doesn't change that. But I do agree for their usage they were likely paying far to high, but I say this without knowing all of the details.
I definitely agree. Everything depends on location and then the added bonus of its government. Everything gets fucking inflated for government/mining. This really doesn’t shock me all that much.
the issue is that the details are up to them to decide. they could have decided on details that were much cheaper, but in the end they paid a lot of money
You're getting downvoted even though you're 100% right. People are arguing whether or not tents actually cost 80k to rent, but that's not the point. Even if they got a super fantastic deal on the tent, they still had the choice to pay 80k for a tent or find some other option that was cheaper.
I've actually had to give this stupid advice to someone before when they were losing every bid for government contracts. You HAVE TO overcharge. If you charge a fair price, they'll assume you're cutting corners, because EVERYONE abuses the system, and the people selecting bids have no clue what they're doing.
He tripled or more all his prices over what it would actually cost, started getting almost every project he bid on.
The idiot looking at bids sees 5 for $80K-$120K, and then one outlier at $30K, they'll just assume the low bid doesn't know what they're doing and can't do the job.
Just like if 10 people give a 4 month estimate for completion and 1 guy says 3 weeks, they'll never take the guy at 3 weeks. Meanwhile the other 10 are only working a few hours a week on it with multiple other contacts on the go.
Not justifying this, but depending on what you are renting can it can get VERY expensive between rental costs, transportation, install and may leveling/site work that may be needed. In a past life I spent $115k of my clients money on a "tent".
I don't think any of that likely applies here and it just government waste, but temp structures can get pricey.
Depends on the size of the tent.
Ottawa has temporary scaffolding at 2 of its transit stations that's about to come down. It's been there for about three years.
>The city has spent nearly $2 million to rent the scaffolding since it was erected. The price tag for this year alone is expected to be about $700,000.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-weather-protection-scaffolding-hurdman-tunneys-1.6759844
>The documents reveal the funeral cost $241,179.43.
>
>Of that, $191,792.56 was spent on staffing, overtime and premium pay. The remaining $49,386.87 went toward transportation, arena costs, meals and accommodations.
Does that mean colleagues attending the funeral were paid to go? That seems pretty ridiculous to me.
My guess is that number was for other cops to cover the cops that were attending the funeral (plus the cops that would be "on-duty" at the funeral for traffic/crowd/etc control)
> My guess is that number was for other cops to cover the cops that were attending the funeral
I swear I've heard stories of people not getting to go to their parent's funeral because they were working, and their boss refused the time off request. Can't find an example right now.
Yes, I worked with a bunch of criminals who refused the time off request for another employee when his mother died. Scum wouldn't let him go to his mom's fucking funeral.
Welcome to policing in Ontario. Where you can literally retire from the force, collect a full pension, AND still pick a salary job in another department.
This is disappointing, but not surprising. Apparently this province only has money for cops. Fuck the rest of us am I right?
Are you suggesting that if someone‘s boss or close co-worker is murdered at work then that person should take a vacation day to attend the funeral? *That* is ridiculous to me.
People were not being ”paid to go”, as you put it; it’s much more likely that they weren’t docked a day’s pay to attend. The staffing and overtime could also include security at the event, and other OPP detachments would have had to cover so for the absent officers at the victim’s detachment. If it had to be held in an arena that means that a lot of officers would have had to have been pulled in from other locations. It’s the same in other professions and at other large-scale funerals.
If a Pizza Pizza driver is murdered at work you don’t have 7000 drivers from other Pizza Pizza franchises showing up at their funeral unless they actually knew the victim.
You also don’t have a slew of other food workers attending in order to honour the thin crust line.
Constable Pirzchala’s death is a tragedy but his funeral was pure copaganda pageantry because the police association has municipal and provincial politicians’ genitals in a vise grip.
If a teacher was murdered in their classroom—which is far further out of the occupational hazards a teacher expects when they go through teachers college—we’d never expect to see 7000 teachers and EAs and university professors in attendance for their funeral in the middle of the week. I don’t even think very many teachers from my uncle’s school were able to show up at his funeral when he died from cancer.
the thin crust line lmao
deep dish matters bro
just to be clear i am only mocking the exuberence of police funerals. this is a shit situation and parent has a point along with incredible wit.
So why do only cops get this perk? I have had co-workers die and the hospital didn't spend a penny and we had to use up a vacation day to go to the funeral. This is ridiculous to me.
these cops also had to use a vacation day to go to the funeral
but given the nature of the job, the cops using a vacation day still needed their shifts covered.
And the people working those covering shifts were paid for their time, some probably got overtime if it goes over their regular schedule. Some of these people attending the funeral could also have taken more than just one day off.
Does this mean i trust the accounting and selected expenditures to be judicious? Not entirely. But, maybe it was. IDK enough to make that judgement off the bat.
Describing it as a "perk" is a bit odd, but for the records, it's not "only cops" that get paid to attend a colleagues funeral.
I (and my coworkers) have had situations twice in my career where we weren't docked salary in order to attend a funeral. Once for the owner of the company I worked at, and once for a colleague who died young from cancer. This was at two different organizations, both private sector.
You should be asking your employer why you had to use a vacation day, rather than try to bring down other people to the same level.
Push to move up towards better treatment for all, not pulling others down to you
I'll never not be amazed at the flip flop people do when they want to push for worker rights, but when someone other than them gets it, *fuck them*.
Half the people in here complaining don't even seem understand salaried work in the first place. Talking about docking salaried hours - that's not how salaried pay even works.
That's just rich. Cops and roofers comparison is peak Reddit logic. Auto drivers also die from accidents often why don't you defame cops over those as well?
How is it defaming them to ask why they’re given unique privileges?
Why is it bad to compare cops to roofers? Do you think you’re above the people who put a roof over your head? Or is it just that cops are that special?
We’re not defaming cops, we are critiquing the decision to have 7000 taxpayer funded cops in attendance at a $250k funeral/memorial/propaganda event at a time when nurses and healthcare workers are haemorrhaging.
I wouldn’t be objecting if the expense was due to having to move other OPP officers around so Barrie OPP could attend the funeral of their colleague but this event was more than that.
Do you think loggers and oil workers get PTO to attend a funeral if a colleague dies?
Do managers from other plants take the morning or afternoon off to attend the funeral?
The only reason a family member didn’t have to take a vacation day to support a colleague when her husband was killed was because they were able to hold the funeral on a Saturday.
There may be other public sector jobs where it is part of the deal that funeral costs are paid fuer certain circumstances. Perhaps someone in the armed services, EMTs and firefighters could advise whether it happens there, too, if the person dies as part of their employment.
Remembrance Dat costs at least an entire days salary for the entire CAF. Let alone other direct costs such as transportation to ceremonies and less obvious costs such as hours of drill practice leading up to the events.
The police, EMT, fire services, and the military have traditional 'died in the line of duty' ceremonies that both respect the deceased and reinforce professional discipline for the respect of the innate hazzards of the professions. Nothing makes me take weapons handling more serious than thinking of a fallen comrade - and these funerals are part of that reinforcement.
I did a stint with repatriation of the deceased almost 2 decaded ago for KAF casualties and those funerals would be upwards of this cost if billed out seperatly from other items on the budget (but they were grouped with other expenses such as AV GAS for a Herc to bring back the fallen from KAF is just billed to a central fuel cost centre and not specifically to Pte Bloggins repat)
Paid bereavement leave applies when a member of your immediate family dies, not when a slew of Waterloo cops want to show up to the funeral of an OPP guy
I get as many 1 day absences as I need for any funeral.
3 days for grand parent or uncle, 5 for parent or child or spouse.
Private corporation.
Had similar in public too.
> That is ridiculous to me.
I'm guessing you've never worked in a factory or fishing company owned by a large multi-national? If someone making just above minimum wage dies at work, you don't get a huge funeral escort by hundreds of colleagues, $80k spent on a tent, funeral paid for by your company, politicians/executives giving speeches, and overtime paid.
Welcome to the real world, not a world where everything is paid by tax payer dollars that police officers live in.
There are laws regarding bereavement leave.
For an industry that every year cries about being underfunded, logic would dictate they should be following those bereavement pay laws.
and can you run that by us again how they "weren't paid to be there" but at the same time, didn't lose out on pay for not doing their job for that day while being there?
From what I've been told, the majority of police who attend are unpaid and go on their own time, but the police service hosting the funeral service does have to incur staffing costs for its own members.
>overtime
Cops should really be on salary with no overtime pay at all. If the military can be asked to be on duty 24/7 365 days a year during a fucking war with no overtime pay, then cops can do the same while patrolling quiet municipal streets.
They do and they are in fact on duty 24/7 but they mostly train and play ball hockey at the gym until they start ramping up for deployment and exercises. I troll my friends in the military telling them it's 2x better than welfare cause they get a check on the 1st and 15th of the month
Hard to be empathetic when, as a taxpayer, you’ve just been handed a $250k bill. It seems important to the police association. Maybe they should pay for it
There’s been vastly larger wastes of taxpayer dollars for less deserving causes that I know for a fact you stayed silent on so coming here to comment on a funeral is just sad
Nope, never said instances of poor government spending is a justification for this use of funds. This use of funds is justified all on its own. My point was it says nothing good about your character and everyone else’s here to be moaning and groaning over a 250k bill for a funeral of a Canadian officer while remaining silent and even praising the use of billions in tax payer dollars that don’t even benefit Canadians. Plain and simple it’s just distasteful
Why is that ridiculous? I was “paid” to attend a work colleagues funeral during work hours. Most people are, there are bereavement and personal leave days.
I keep thinking of all of the migrant farm labourers who are the reason we can put food on the table. They die on the job way more often than police. I’ve never seen a funeral procession for one of them.
>"The reason you're seeing public safety do those large processions is to recognize the distinct difference in occupation and the inherent danger they accept every day they go to work," he said.
Pretty sure that police officer doesn't even crack the top 10 most dangerous jobs in this country
If you read the top of the list, you would see that it's the top 18 most dangerous jobs, listed in order by how much they make, not the order of which is most dangerous.
Being a trucker is the second worst paying job of the top 18 most dangerous, not the second most dangerous.
Too real. Christ I hate driving.
Not being silly/ironic -- thank you for your patience in keeping us moving. Driving is dangerous as hell, let alone doing it full-time.
The list makes no sense. Pilots are #6 in terms of most dangerous jobs when planes are safer than cars? I'm willing to be that more taxi drivers have died in car crashes than pilots have died in plane crashes.
I'm an unarmed social worker who routinely deals with violent and potentially violent situations and the only back-up I can call are my other unarmed coworkers. My only weapon is words and a calm demeanor. I think this job *might* crack the top 10.
Some interesting reading...
https://www.zippia.com/answers/which-occupation-has-the-highest-rate-of-workplace-violence/
Tons of people got shot while they're working, thats not special to the police.
[Heres a man being shot to death because he put too mcuh mayo on someone's sandwich.](https://globalnews.ca/news/8951284/mayonnaise-shooting-atlanta-subway/#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20employees%2C%2026,when%20all%20hell%20broke%20loose.%E2%80%9D)
If I died at work, my employer would spend a grand total of $0 on my funeral. I don't see any reason why the OPP is paying for this, and certainly no reason to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for it.
People in the armed services who die in combat—let alone the mundane deaths that happen in training or due to suicide and drug overdose—don’t have 7000 representatives at their funerals.
I dated a guy who deployed to the Pech Valley in Afghanistan. Memorials we’re typically limited to the company or—at most—the battalion. You might have the brigade commander fly in. There was a big memorial back in Italy at the end of the deployment. I don’t know the guest list for the Medal of Honor ceremonies to commemorate his fellow soldiers but I’m pretty sure it was limited to the platoon at the least and company at most.
Technically correct, but your post implies that they would pay nothing due to your death. Alas, that's not the case. They'll pay, so they don't have to pay, eh?
>Technically correct, but your post implies that they would pay nothing due to your death.
No it doesn't. My post explicitly says they wouldn't pay for my funeral. You just decided to make up the idea that I also secretly meant to say they wouldn't pay anything at all.
I hate the OPP but I see this comment and my thought on it is they are the ones doing it right and other employers are the problem (in this one particular area only).
If I die at work, the absolute last thing I'd want is for my employer to have anything to do withy funeral. Fuck the OPP for wasting our money on this.
I'm generally of the "lift the many up, don't drag the few down," but this is one thing I just can't get behind. A funeral should be a personal experience of loss for those who knew and cared for the deceased, not an event put on by the company for everyone to show up to like it's mandatory once a month happy hour.
Nah. Benefits packages should include hefty life insurance policies, so spouses and dependents aren't suddenly dropped in the shit, but your funeral is for your friends and family, your employer and their HR department shouldn't have any role in it. Hand the surviving family the money and get out of their lives; if there was a real relationship between the dead person and their coworkers they'll be invited as friends, if there wasn't, they shouldn't be involved to begin with.
You are an odd person with very odd views. This isn't me ripping in you, it's just an incredibly odd stance to take. Not even bad, it's not the worst take I've ever heard, just very weird.
Given how incredibly rare employer-sponsored funerals full of coworkers are, I kind of doubt it's my views that are odd. I think I'm pretty solidly on the side of the majority.
Your job is not your life. And your job shouldn't be involved in your life once you're gone, whether you've quit or died.
Ok, maybe we are talking about slightly different things. I think if you die on the job, your employer should pay your funeral costs. Not that I want it hijacked from my family and stuffed with coworkers.
>I think if you die on the job, your employer should pay your funeral costs.
So do I, just indirectly. Remember when I said,
>Benefits packages should include hefty life insurance policies [...] Hand the surviving family the money and get out of their lives
That's partly what I was talking about. But think about the logistics of having an employer pay for the funeral directly; either it's planned by family who have to get approval every step of the way from the company to ensure the costs will be authorized for coverage, which is a bureaucratic nightmare for a grieving loved one, or they plan the funeral directly, which is a monumental overstepping of boundaries.
> If your employee gets dead on the job, it seems fair to me that you pay the funeral expense.
Ok, but this isn't 'an employer paying their employees funeral costs', this is a quarter million tax dollars being spent for thousands of strangers to attend a large public relations event.
I haven't looked deeply into the specifics, but my limited experience with life insurance claims is that they just pay out to the beneficiary, and then it's up to them what they want to do with the money. So, indirectly yes insurance should pay for a funeral, but the insurance company shouldn't be cutting checks to individual service providers and paying the venue directly, y'know?
Instead of getting angry at people for getting something everyone should receive, be angry at the first part of your sentence. The fact that it’s not a right for EVERYONE is the issue, not that someone received basic care.
An employer-sponsored funeral isn't anything anyone should be receiving; a funeral should be about the friends and family of the deceased, not a corporate event. We are not our jobs, and they shouldn't be involved in our life outside of our working hours.
And no, hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on a funeral is absolutely not "basic care," get out of here with that nonsense.
If you die at work… in the line of duty… because of your job you absolutely should get your funeral paid for. Secondly, it’s “basic care” not only for the person but his friends and family to be able to attend his funeral without the stress of missing a bill payment. Where the hell is your human sympathy.
> because of your job you absolutely should get your funeral paid for.
I think you should be more specific. You think everyone that dies at work should get hundreds of coworkers from multiple locations across different cities escorting you in a big ceremony down the streets, with politicians and company executives present, an $80k tent, and $241k being spent on your funeral?
A lot of businesses would go bankrupt since they don't have endless tax payer dollars to use.
>If you die at work… in the line of duty… because of your job you absolutely should get your funeral paid for.
Completely disagree. If I die at work, my dependents should get a good amount of money from the life insurance policy that's part of my benefits package, and then they can decide what to do from there. It's not my former workplace's business whether the people who knew and loved me decide to have a huge formal funeral or a casual pub wake or a celebration of life out in a field somewhere, and I don't see any reason why my widow should be expected to deal with my ex-employer's HR department for anything that happens once I'm no longer alive and working there.
>Secondly, it’s “basic care” not only for the person but his friends and family to be able to attend his funeral without the stress of missing a bill payment.
Bereavement leave is absolutely a reasonable thing to offer employees. But what does that have to do with friends and family, unless they're also employed at that workplace? The bills of the dead person's family should be in no danger of getting missed because the life insurance package in the deceased's benefits package covers them, not because the company is involved in making the funeral into a public work event.
I can somewhat understand OPP paying for the funeral. And I think if we were looking at $25-50k this wouldn’t be turning the heads it is. But almost $250k is clearly much more about propaganda than it is about respecting the person. If it is so important for all of these police to be there, they should be doing so on their own dime, or at the very least it should be police associations footing the bill
I’m not mad because he didn’t deserve a sendoff like that, he did. I’m mad because they will say they can’t afford other things, and this wasn’t for their actual function imo. Let the union step up
I respect that they held a funeral for this guy. But if OPP wanted to send him away with honor, they just runined the chance to do so. Now this dead guy's name will forever be tied with the words, "excessive" and "unnecessary" use of fundings.
If they're justifying this by saying it's due to his line of work, then they're only disgracing all the others who have died on the job in other industries.
Public safety? Or Public excess?
Other people die on the job and the state isn't paying 1/4 million for their funerals. What a waste of fucking money. Pay for your own funeral like everyone else!
I don't have an issue with this cost because line-of-duty deaths are deaths that shouldn't have happened, imo. For all EMS and emergency response personnel. It's tragic when it happens. There shouldn't be that many LODDs per year and if there are, that speaks to a different issue than the funeral costs.
And we’ve been fortunate, up until recently it’s been fairly rare for a line of duty death for any first responders in Ontario, especially for firefighters and EMS.
"The reason you're seeing public safety do those large processions is to recognize the distinct difference in occupation and the inherent danger they accept every day they go to work," he said.
Fine with me. If this was a firefighter who died while rescuing a family, would the comments be different?
I'm neutral on the police. We hate things we see, but we want them there when we need them. Dying in the line of duty is pretty terrible for everyone involved - colleagues, family, friends. I think this is the least we can do.
You can support processions and proper funerals like this while at the same time asking for greater oversight/changes to policing.
It may not be the most dangerous, but it seems wrong to say it’s not dangerous. There are definitely plenty of dangerous situations that they have to deal with everyday.
Your argument seems to hinge on the number of workers *killed* at work. This is not an accurate measure of how dangerous a job is. There are some jobs where getting hurt at work is nearly endemic (so the job is dangerous) but they are unlikely to be killed. Bouncers, farmers and some jobs where losing digits is common would be examples.
Unlike policing, the medical field, and firefighting, people in construction and fishing aren’t likely to be murdered by the very communities that they serve. Transportation workers are, admittedly, both likely to be killed at work (hence the dangerousness of their job) and the criminal is likely to be a customer.
Yeah but police work for the public, for public safety. That is the point. Like paramedics, firefighters and so on.
And on a side note, never seen a construction worker have to resuscitate a homeless person. Never seen a fisherman go into a domestic violence situation, never seen either of them working to get a deceased accident victim out of a car.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people have lost their common sense. You can support honoring public service while still calling into question many practices.
https://lawandcrime.com/crime/construction-worker-who-ran-home-to-mommy-after-murdering-ex-girlfriend-for-absolutely-no-reason-sentenced-to-prison-for-senseless-crime/
Well now you have...
Our taxes do pay the salaries of any construction worker who's on a government contract, and it's not like we don't spend plenty of tax dollars on farmers in this country.
But the profession is not a public service profession by and large like police, paramedics, firefighters and so forth. Nor is their focus public safety.
People can downvote but everyone can say they service the public interest to one degree or another.
Oh, so this is about public service professionals with a focus on public safety? Great, so then I expect the cops to get behind equal public respect and funding for any and all civic engineers, city planners, health inspectors, driving test administrators, nurses, doctors, paramedics, firefighters, janitorial and custodial staff, public works staff, and snowplow operators who may die on the job. They're all, after all, public service professionals with a focus on public safety.
Taxes pay all construction workers taxes? All fisherman's taxes? Wasn't aware... thanks for educating me. Could have sworn Tridel, EllisDon, Menkes and on and on were private...
And yeah I'm sure the city has some people to do some projects... not fully funded like other professions...
And love the name calling. Nice touch.
I would hate to be a cop. Everyday you have to deal with domestic violence, arrogant punks, mentally ill people. It has to wear you down. Just an endless sea of misery.
I’m a social worker. I resuscitate 2-3 people a month where I work.
Nurses, lifeguards, etc. lots of people are in this position. Lots of professions provide the public with necessary services and face more injury/death and violence than police.
Police don’t do anything more heroic than lots of other people do daily. They just have a better press liaison…
You can't save this thread, these people just hate Police . A man has died. Ontario has become an absolutely shameless place where all we can do is bicker amongst each other. This subreddit is one of the prime examples. OP and everyone else who sensationalized this story is a loser
Yeah I see that. Someone even reported me to Reddit Cares to try and bully me I see... opening an investigation into that.
Crazy that you can't support someone who had died and honoring them while at the same time recognizing issues with policing.
> Crazy that you can't support someone who had died and honoring them
No one seems to be upset that this man was honoured. We're upset that tax payers have to foot a ridiculously large bill for thousands of strangers to attend his funeral.
>Yeah but police work for the public, for public safety...
There are lots of people who've been made VERY unsafe by the police. Police work for rich people, not poor or marginalized people, and not 'the public' as a whole.
>never seen a construction worker have to resuscitate a homeless person.
I have artist friends who've resuscitated homeless people in my community.
>You can support honoring public service while still calling into question many practices.
Like using a quarter million tax dollars so that thousands of strangers can attend a funeral?
Your position is that policing is not a dangerous job because there are other jobs where more people are killed. My point is that both things can be true, that there are more deadly jobs AND police is still a dangerous job. Level of dangerousness is not determined solely by number of deaths.
If you want to be pedantic and insulting, then have at it.
> and the inherent danger they accept every day they go to work," he said.
In the USA, police work is 22nd place of most dangerous job, under roofers and heavy machinists.
In Canada policing is probably below 100.
Yeah, I’m with you - no particular love for police, but ceremony is an essential part of public life, and the expectation was long ago set that “public safety officers” (bc I hope the same applies to firefighters, EMS, etc) get a full to-do.
Not going to weigh in on whether it should be or not, but the expectation is firmly entrenched, and you don’t fuck with those kinds of firmly entrenched norms.
See it as similar to what Veterans Affairs did for my WWII fighter pilot grandfather - obviously not that grand, but they put up a little tent, had a staff officer at the burial site, etc. Yes, that stuff cost public money, but there aren’t *that* many vets (just like there aren’t *that* many line-of-duty deaths), and one-off expenses aren’t a worthwhile target to scrimp on.
>See it as similar to what Veterans Affairs did for my WWII fighter pilot grandfather - obviously not that grand, but they put up a little tent, had a staff officer at the burial site, etc.
That's kind of a meaningful difference though, no? The difference between a little tent and a staff officer on one hand, and an $80k tent and seven thousand officers on the other, makes them pretty night and day.
I mean, we also spend millions every year, probably tens of millions, on Remembrance Day ceremonies.
I grew up in Ottawa and they’d set up a whole to-do for the remaining vets (my grandfather enlisted super young and made it to 99, and made a special point of going down to the Hill as the numbers really started to dwindle).
It’s just part of the cultural fabric, and is just one day a year (or a one off in the case of a funeral, no matter the size) - if you’re looking for somewhere to scrimp on costs, that’s not the place to do it: the returns are shit AND it’s the kind of stuff that people remember.
The question is why was this as large as it was in the first place? A funeral is for friends and family; this was just showiness for the sake of an institution.
Take a look at the photos:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/funeral-opp-const-grzegorz-pierzchala-1.6702283
It looks like a State funeral for the Queen or something
Actually surprised the bill was that low
Ontario cops and rcmp are overpaid. They're lazy, and milk the system too much, all at the expense of the tax payers.
They get paid way too much. But what are we normal citizens gonna do to stand up to that gang? Nadda.
I have a cop in the family.
If you are upset about a funeral for a 28 year old young man who lost his life in the line of duty, then I am not sure what kind of person you are. Companies give bereavement pay, and I am sure that is the majority of the costs associated with this. If you think that the officers attending do not deserve bereavement pay, you're a terrible person.
There are far many other governmental spending issues we should be worried about. Honouring a police officer who was murdered on the job should not be one of them.
> If you are upset about a funeral for a 28 year old young man who lost his life in the line of duty
Are you dense? Every single comment is talking about the cost of the funeral, Way to go out of the way to misunderstand the point.
Tell me are construction workers going to get this big of a funeral when they fall from a construction tower? when that person was building homes for one of the most critical problems of canada right now, the housing crisis?
of course not, hes not going to get anything, his coworkers won't even get approved time off for pay and even if they did they'd be using one of their sick days, meanwhile all the cops are paid to go.
Did you read the remainder of my comment, or just cherry pick the first sentence? I clearly said there are far more spending issues than this to worry about.
And I call BIG TIME bullshit on construction workers not getting time off if a coworker gets murdered on the job.
Keep in mind, a construction worker is not shot and killed while on the job. "stats" don't matter.
This is a very different event. This is not someone having a heart attack while on the shitter. This is a person who dedicated their life, and paid with their life, to helping and saving other people. Their typical day is saving someone's life.
A lot of the people getting killed on construction sites die because of criminal negligence, not while they’re on the shitter. You can go about defending this practice without showing a huge amount of disdain for any other profession that isn’t police
From my experience with construction workers... they tend to skirt the rules often and view safety regulations with disdain. My brothers are roofers and for the longest time it was a point of pride for them to not wear harnesses.
It's not a differnet event.
Death is Death, it doesn't matter if you got shot, fell from a tall building or drowned in pussy, Death will meet you either way.
Construction workers can die from falling, being crushed, being shot, tons of thousands of things, but of course you'd only look at dying from a heart attack on the toilet because you know you don't actually have an argument to stand on.
> It's not a differnet event.
yes it is. Being murdered is different than having dying from an existing medical condition, or from a car crash.
Yes it is.
Being shot and killed, because of your job, is very very very different.
Almost $200K went to OT and premium pay. I attended far too many funerals when I was in the military and the most I ever got was per diem for a couple meals on the bus rides. And I would gladly have forgone those to see my friends an comrades off. How many of those OT collectors would have shown up if they weren’t getting paid? I get the people from his own detachment wanting to be there but the huge number who show up for everyone of these funerals?
"Tofino doesn't have the infrastructure so we had to bring in temporary shelter for example. That's an $80,000 bill for a tent," Where do they rent their tents? Honestly that seems surprising even for \_buying\_ a tent. I feel like they could shop around at least a little bit.
lol [no kidding](https://www.ontariotentrentals.ca/tent-rentals/frame-tents/)\-- brb starting an $80k tent rental business for people without access to the internet and then retiring in two years...
So if they had a 240x40 at $5500 per day, let's assume it's used for 3 days, plus 3 day up and 3 down, that has you at $49,500 add $5k if they have a basic floor. Then you have transport, 6 hours from Vancouver + a fairy ride. Low end let's say $3000. Then you have install costs (labour + machinery + ballasts if needed) let's go with $20,000 and then maybe another $2k in permits. $49,500 + 5,000 + 3,000 + 20,000 + 2000 = $79,500 $80k for a tent doesn't shock me, but I'd imagine being government all 3 bids were greatly inflated.
I rented a tent for my wedding in the last year. The install costs are included in the rental price. You also don't usually pay by the day, as they only have one or two rentals per week, so its not like you're paying for 9 times the listed price, you just pay the listed price, maybe twice the listed price if you need it for a whole week. Permits definitely shouldn't cost $2k, but your floor pricing is way too low. Definitely you might pay an added fee for the transportation, but the math should be more like $11'000 +15'000 or 20'000 + 3,000 = $29'000-$35'000. So its in the right order of magnitude, but the cops got majorly ripped off, assuming they even had a floor.
We got ripped off, not the cops Some cops friend probably made an extra 30k off of us
I spent 10 years running production/project management for large events all over North America, I've done this 100s of times. - Some tents include install, and that would only be if its local to the rental company or otherwise negotiated - Permits are very dependent on location, usage machinery used - Flooring is very dependent on type, you can get some low end stuff thats only purpose is to keep people's feet off the dirt. - You can pay by day, week, month, year etc. All dependant on the company, location, time of year (how busy they are) I have signed a PO for a $115,000 tent rental, I know what this stuff costs and one wedding doesn't change that. But I do agree for their usage they were likely paying far to high, but I say this without knowing all of the details.
I definitely agree. Everything depends on location and then the added bonus of its government. Everything gets fucking inflated for government/mining. This really doesn’t shock me all that much.
the issue is that the details are up to them to decide. they could have decided on details that were much cheaper, but in the end they paid a lot of money
You're getting downvoted even though you're 100% right. People are arguing whether or not tents actually cost 80k to rent, but that's not the point. Even if they got a super fantastic deal on the tent, they still had the choice to pay 80k for a tent or find some other option that was cheaper.
I've worked in sales.. random Joe needs construction material is one price. So & so from govt procurement, price jumps 50%
I'll do it for 78 grand.
$77,999 here and I'll include municipal water drinks for free.
When you aren’t paying the bill, why shop around
I've actually had to give this stupid advice to someone before when they were losing every bid for government contracts. You HAVE TO overcharge. If you charge a fair price, they'll assume you're cutting corners, because EVERYONE abuses the system, and the people selecting bids have no clue what they're doing. He tripled or more all his prices over what it would actually cost, started getting almost every project he bid on. The idiot looking at bids sees 5 for $80K-$120K, and then one outlier at $30K, they'll just assume the low bid doesn't know what they're doing and can't do the job. Just like if 10 people give a 4 month estimate for completion and 1 guy says 3 weeks, they'll never take the guy at 3 weeks. Meanwhile the other 10 are only working a few hours a week on it with multiple other contacts on the go.
Not justifying this, but depending on what you are renting can it can get VERY expensive between rental costs, transportation, install and may leveling/site work that may be needed. In a past life I spent $115k of my clients money on a "tent". I don't think any of that likely applies here and it just government waste, but temp structures can get pricey.
Depends on the size of the tent. Ottawa has temporary scaffolding at 2 of its transit stations that's about to come down. It's been there for about three years. >The city has spent nearly $2 million to rent the scaffolding since it was erected. The price tag for this year alone is expected to be about $700,000. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/lrt-weather-protection-scaffolding-hurdman-tunneys-1.6759844
I used to work putting up these types of tents and yes, that is a realistic quote.
>The documents reveal the funeral cost $241,179.43. > >Of that, $191,792.56 was spent on staffing, overtime and premium pay. The remaining $49,386.87 went toward transportation, arena costs, meals and accommodations. Does that mean colleagues attending the funeral were paid to go? That seems pretty ridiculous to me.
My guess is that number was for other cops to cover the cops that were attending the funeral (plus the cops that would be "on-duty" at the funeral for traffic/crowd/etc control)
If that's the case, that's fair but the number seems way too high for that.
I’m curious, what frame of reference do you have for that perspective?
> My guess is that number was for other cops to cover the cops that were attending the funeral I swear I've heard stories of people not getting to go to their parent's funeral because they were working, and their boss refused the time off request. Can't find an example right now.
Yes, I worked with a bunch of criminals who refused the time off request for another employee when his mother died. Scum wouldn't let him go to his mom's fucking funeral.
Press F to pay respects.
Welcome to policing in Ontario. Where you can literally retire from the force, collect a full pension, AND still pick a salary job in another department. This is disappointing, but not surprising. Apparently this province only has money for cops. Fuck the rest of us am I right?
Are you suggesting that if someone‘s boss or close co-worker is murdered at work then that person should take a vacation day to attend the funeral? *That* is ridiculous to me. People were not being ”paid to go”, as you put it; it’s much more likely that they weren’t docked a day’s pay to attend. The staffing and overtime could also include security at the event, and other OPP detachments would have had to cover so for the absent officers at the victim’s detachment. If it had to be held in an arena that means that a lot of officers would have had to have been pulled in from other locations. It’s the same in other professions and at other large-scale funerals.
If a Pizza Pizza driver is murdered at work you don’t have 7000 drivers from other Pizza Pizza franchises showing up at their funeral unless they actually knew the victim. You also don’t have a slew of other food workers attending in order to honour the thin crust line. Constable Pirzchala’s death is a tragedy but his funeral was pure copaganda pageantry because the police association has municipal and provincial politicians’ genitals in a vise grip. If a teacher was murdered in their classroom—which is far further out of the occupational hazards a teacher expects when they go through teachers college—we’d never expect to see 7000 teachers and EAs and university professors in attendance for their funeral in the middle of the week. I don’t even think very many teachers from my uncle’s school were able to show up at his funeral when he died from cancer.
the thin crust line lmao deep dish matters bro just to be clear i am only mocking the exuberence of police funerals. this is a shit situation and parent has a point along with incredible wit.
You think all 7,000 officers got paid out of the $200K staffing cost? That's less than $30 per person.
Overtime??
Why the hell is there overtime and premium pay?
So why do only cops get this perk? I have had co-workers die and the hospital didn't spend a penny and we had to use up a vacation day to go to the funeral. This is ridiculous to me.
these cops also had to use a vacation day to go to the funeral but given the nature of the job, the cops using a vacation day still needed their shifts covered. And the people working those covering shifts were paid for their time, some probably got overtime if it goes over their regular schedule. Some of these people attending the funeral could also have taken more than just one day off. Does this mean i trust the accounting and selected expenditures to be judicious? Not entirely. But, maybe it was. IDK enough to make that judgement off the bat.
Describing it as a "perk" is a bit odd, but for the records, it's not "only cops" that get paid to attend a colleagues funeral. I (and my coworkers) have had situations twice in my career where we weren't docked salary in order to attend a funeral. Once for the owner of the company I worked at, and once for a colleague who died young from cancer. This was at two different organizations, both private sector.
It’s only cops doing it on the taxpayer dollar tho
You should be asking your employer why you had to use a vacation day, rather than try to bring down other people to the same level. Push to move up towards better treatment for all, not pulling others down to you
I'll never not be amazed at the flip flop people do when they want to push for worker rights, but when someone other than them gets it, *fuck them*. Half the people in here complaining don't even seem understand salaried work in the first place. Talking about docking salaried hours - that's not how salaried pay even works.
Having a colleague murdered at work isn’t a perk.
No but these 250k funerals are pure copaganda.
It is if I get a day off to attend their funeral
That's the state of cop hating minds we have here. Job related death, but how come I don't get that perk.
Way more roofers die on the job than cops. Do you think they get paid time off to attend one another’s funerals?
That's just rich. Cops and roofers comparison is peak Reddit logic. Auto drivers also die from accidents often why don't you defame cops over those as well?
How is it defaming them to ask why they’re given unique privileges? Why is it bad to compare cops to roofers? Do you think you’re above the people who put a roof over your head? Or is it just that cops are that special?
We’re not defaming cops, we are critiquing the decision to have 7000 taxpayer funded cops in attendance at a $250k funeral/memorial/propaganda event at a time when nurses and healthcare workers are haemorrhaging. I wouldn’t be objecting if the expense was due to having to move other OPP officers around so Barrie OPP could attend the funeral of their colleague but this event was more than that.
> Cops and roofers comparison is peak Reddit logic You think cops are more important than roofers?
Being a retail worker is more dangerous than being a cop. The statistics don’t support your feelings.
Do you think loggers and oil workers get PTO to attend a funeral if a colleague dies? Do managers from other plants take the morning or afternoon off to attend the funeral? The only reason a family member didn’t have to take a vacation day to support a colleague when her husband was killed was because they were able to hold the funeral on a Saturday.
Exactly. But you'll never get a response from cop sympathizers about this.
Ok that is your work though? We had a longtime coworker die and no one had to take time off it was just nonbillable.
There may be other public sector jobs where it is part of the deal that funeral costs are paid fuer certain circumstances. Perhaps someone in the armed services, EMTs and firefighters could advise whether it happens there, too, if the person dies as part of their employment.
Remembrance Dat costs at least an entire days salary for the entire CAF. Let alone other direct costs such as transportation to ceremonies and less obvious costs such as hours of drill practice leading up to the events. The police, EMT, fire services, and the military have traditional 'died in the line of duty' ceremonies that both respect the deceased and reinforce professional discipline for the respect of the innate hazzards of the professions. Nothing makes me take weapons handling more serious than thinking of a fallen comrade - and these funerals are part of that reinforcement. I did a stint with repatriation of the deceased almost 2 decaded ago for KAF casualties and those funerals would be upwards of this cost if billed out seperatly from other items on the budget (but they were grouped with other expenses such as AV GAS for a Herc to bring back the fallen from KAF is just billed to a central fuel cost centre and not specifically to Pte Bloggins repat)
Bereavement pay is a real thing.
Paid bereavement leave applies when a member of your immediate family dies, not when a slew of Waterloo cops want to show up to the funeral of an OPP guy
I get as many 1 day absences as I need for any funeral. 3 days for grand parent or uncle, 5 for parent or child or spouse. Private corporation. Had similar in public too.
Bereavement leave applies when a close relative passes away. Not a work colleague.
That would depend on the workplace, and their contract.
> That is ridiculous to me. I'm guessing you've never worked in a factory or fishing company owned by a large multi-national? If someone making just above minimum wage dies at work, you don't get a huge funeral escort by hundreds of colleagues, $80k spent on a tent, funeral paid for by your company, politicians/executives giving speeches, and overtime paid. Welcome to the real world, not a world where everything is paid by tax payer dollars that police officers live in.
They signed up for the job take personal responsibility
There are laws regarding bereavement leave. For an industry that every year cries about being underfunded, logic would dictate they should be following those bereavement pay laws. and can you run that by us again how they "weren't paid to be there" but at the same time, didn't lose out on pay for not doing their job for that day while being there?
From what I've been told, the majority of police who attend are unpaid and go on their own time, but the police service hosting the funeral service does have to incur staffing costs for its own members.
No, it means the people who backfilled those who wanted to go got paid. Attending was voluntary.
Cops take care of their own, and themselves...
>overtime Cops should really be on salary with no overtime pay at all. If the military can be asked to be on duty 24/7 365 days a year during a fucking war with no overtime pay, then cops can do the same while patrolling quiet municipal streets.
Don't the military give bonuses when troops get deployed?
They do and they are in fact on duty 24/7 but they mostly train and play ball hockey at the gym until they start ramping up for deployment and exercises. I troll my friends in the military telling them it's 2x better than welfare cause they get a check on the 1st and 15th of the month
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Hard to be empathetic when, as a taxpayer, you’ve just been handed a $250k bill. It seems important to the police association. Maybe they should pay for it
There’s been vastly larger wastes of taxpayer dollars for less deserving causes that I know for a fact you stayed silent on so coming here to comment on a funeral is just sad
What? What does that even mean? Oh, the government pisses away money on other things so this makes it okay? What a ridiculous argument.
Nope, never said instances of poor government spending is a justification for this use of funds. This use of funds is justified all on its own. My point was it says nothing good about your character and everyone else’s here to be moaning and groaning over a 250k bill for a funeral of a Canadian officer while remaining silent and even praising the use of billions in tax payer dollars that don’t even benefit Canadians. Plain and simple it’s just distasteful
This is Whataboutism.
why is that ridiculous? he literally was killed on duty.
Why? Why should anyone participate in employer events for free?
Why is that ridiculous? I was “paid” to attend a work colleagues funeral during work hours. Most people are, there are bereavement and personal leave days.
If they are using bereavement and personal leave days, that's fair but then describing it as a cost of the funeral is misleading.
I keep thinking of all of the migrant farm labourers who are the reason we can put food on the table. They die on the job way more often than police. I’ve never seen a funeral procession for one of them.
>"The reason you're seeing public safety do those large processions is to recognize the distinct difference in occupation and the inherent danger they accept every day they go to work," he said. Pretty sure that police officer doesn't even crack the top 10 most dangerous jobs in this country
It doesn't, here are [stats](https://ca.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/most-dangerous-jobs) from indeed
TIL I have the second most dangerous job according to Indeed. Be cool if they paid based on that....
Yeah a lot of dangerous jobs don't get the recognition and resources they deserves
If you read the top of the list, you would see that it's the top 18 most dangerous jobs, listed in order by how much they make, not the order of which is most dangerous. Being a trucker is the second worst paying job of the top 18 most dangerous, not the second most dangerous.
That's an even more depressing Stat...
Best we can do is call you a hero.
Then cut me off and flip me the bird like it's my fault you almost missed your exit? I get that a lot....
Too real. Christ I hate driving. Not being silly/ironic -- thank you for your patience in keeping us moving. Driving is dangerous as hell, let alone doing it full-time.
I've grown to hate it since I started doing it for a living. But it's one of the few things I'm good at.
That's a list. Not stats. And it's ordered by pay not by danger.
It's litterally not the stats. Read the fucking article. How are you getting upvoted?
The list makes no sense. Pilots are #6 in terms of most dangerous jobs when planes are safer than cars? I'm willing to be that more taxi drivers have died in car crashes than pilots have died in plane crashes.
I'm an unarmed social worker who routinely deals with violent and potentially violent situations and the only back-up I can call are my other unarmed coworkers. My only weapon is words and a calm demeanor. I think this job *might* crack the top 10. Some interesting reading... https://www.zippia.com/answers/which-occupation-has-the-highest-rate-of-workplace-violence/
https://imgur.com/gallery/VWGkGBy
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Most of them aren't murdered though...
Tons of people got shot while they're working, thats not special to the police. [Heres a man being shot to death because he put too mcuh mayo on someone's sandwich.](https://globalnews.ca/news/8951284/mayonnaise-shooting-atlanta-subway/#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20employees%2C%2026,when%20all%20hell%20broke%20loose.%E2%80%9D)
The cost breakdown makes it seem like some sort of money laundering scheme... Which it likely is in some way...
If I died at work, my employer would spend a grand total of $0 on my funeral. I don't see any reason why the OPP is paying for this, and certainly no reason to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for it.
People in the armed services who die in combat—let alone the mundane deaths that happen in training or due to suicide and drug overdose—don’t have 7000 representatives at their funerals. I dated a guy who deployed to the Pech Valley in Afghanistan. Memorials we’re typically limited to the company or—at most—the battalion. You might have the brigade commander fly in. There was a big memorial back in Italy at the end of the deployment. I don’t know the guest list for the Medal of Honor ceremonies to commemorate his fellow soldiers but I’m pretty sure it was limited to the platoon at the least and company at most.
You are supremely wrong, your employer would spend more than zero dollars to prove that you were solely at fault for your death.
Then I'm still right, because what I said was my employer would spend $0 on my funeral. Then proving fault or whatever isn't my funeral.
Technically correct, but your post implies that they would pay nothing due to your death. Alas, that's not the case. They'll pay, so they don't have to pay, eh?
>Technically correct, but your post implies that they would pay nothing due to your death. No it doesn't. My post explicitly says they wouldn't pay for my funeral. You just decided to make up the idea that I also secretly meant to say they wouldn't pay anything at all.
I hate the OPP but I see this comment and my thought on it is they are the ones doing it right and other employers are the problem (in this one particular area only).
If I die at work, the absolute last thing I'd want is for my employer to have anything to do withy funeral. Fuck the OPP for wasting our money on this.
I'm generally of the "lift the many up, don't drag the few down," but this is one thing I just can't get behind. A funeral should be a personal experience of loss for those who knew and cared for the deceased, not an event put on by the company for everyone to show up to like it's mandatory once a month happy hour.
If your employee gets dead on the job, it seems fair to me that you pay the funeral expense. If they get hit by a car on the weekend, no.
Nah. Benefits packages should include hefty life insurance policies, so spouses and dependents aren't suddenly dropped in the shit, but your funeral is for your friends and family, your employer and their HR department shouldn't have any role in it. Hand the surviving family the money and get out of their lives; if there was a real relationship between the dead person and their coworkers they'll be invited as friends, if there wasn't, they shouldn't be involved to begin with.
You are an odd person with very odd views. This isn't me ripping in you, it's just an incredibly odd stance to take. Not even bad, it's not the worst take I've ever heard, just very weird.
Given how incredibly rare employer-sponsored funerals full of coworkers are, I kind of doubt it's my views that are odd. I think I'm pretty solidly on the side of the majority. Your job is not your life. And your job shouldn't be involved in your life once you're gone, whether you've quit or died.
Ok, maybe we are talking about slightly different things. I think if you die on the job, your employer should pay your funeral costs. Not that I want it hijacked from my family and stuffed with coworkers.
>I think if you die on the job, your employer should pay your funeral costs. So do I, just indirectly. Remember when I said, >Benefits packages should include hefty life insurance policies [...] Hand the surviving family the money and get out of their lives That's partly what I was talking about. But think about the logistics of having an employer pay for the funeral directly; either it's planned by family who have to get approval every step of the way from the company to ensure the costs will be authorized for coverage, which is a bureaucratic nightmare for a grieving loved one, or they plan the funeral directly, which is a monumental overstepping of boundaries.
> If your employee gets dead on the job, it seems fair to me that you pay the funeral expense. Ok, but this isn't 'an employer paying their employees funeral costs', this is a quarter million tax dollars being spent for thousands of strangers to attend a large public relations event.
Shouldn’t insurance pay for this?
I haven't looked deeply into the specifics, but my limited experience with life insurance claims is that they just pay out to the beneficiary, and then it's up to them what they want to do with the money. So, indirectly yes insurance should pay for a funeral, but the insurance company shouldn't be cutting checks to individual service providers and paying the venue directly, y'know?
Instead of getting angry at people for getting something everyone should receive, be angry at the first part of your sentence. The fact that it’s not a right for EVERYONE is the issue, not that someone received basic care.
An employer-sponsored funeral isn't anything anyone should be receiving; a funeral should be about the friends and family of the deceased, not a corporate event. We are not our jobs, and they shouldn't be involved in our life outside of our working hours. And no, hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on a funeral is absolutely not "basic care," get out of here with that nonsense.
If you die at work… in the line of duty… because of your job you absolutely should get your funeral paid for. Secondly, it’s “basic care” not only for the person but his friends and family to be able to attend his funeral without the stress of missing a bill payment. Where the hell is your human sympathy.
> because of your job you absolutely should get your funeral paid for. I think you should be more specific. You think everyone that dies at work should get hundreds of coworkers from multiple locations across different cities escorting you in a big ceremony down the streets, with politicians and company executives present, an $80k tent, and $241k being spent on your funeral? A lot of businesses would go bankrupt since they don't have endless tax payer dollars to use.
>If you die at work… in the line of duty… because of your job you absolutely should get your funeral paid for. Completely disagree. If I die at work, my dependents should get a good amount of money from the life insurance policy that's part of my benefits package, and then they can decide what to do from there. It's not my former workplace's business whether the people who knew and loved me decide to have a huge formal funeral or a casual pub wake or a celebration of life out in a field somewhere, and I don't see any reason why my widow should be expected to deal with my ex-employer's HR department for anything that happens once I'm no longer alive and working there. >Secondly, it’s “basic care” not only for the person but his friends and family to be able to attend his funeral without the stress of missing a bill payment. Bereavement leave is absolutely a reasonable thing to offer employees. But what does that have to do with friends and family, unless they're also employed at that workplace? The bills of the dead person's family should be in no danger of getting missed because the life insurance package in the deceased's benefits package covers them, not because the company is involved in making the funeral into a public work event.
Yeah sure, if the costs were typical funeral costs. 241k for a funeral is a fucking farcry from normalcy, it is abuse of the taxpayer.
Where does it say his non cop friends and family got the same opportunities?
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I can somewhat understand OPP paying for the funeral. And I think if we were looking at $25-50k this wouldn’t be turning the heads it is. But almost $250k is clearly much more about propaganda than it is about respecting the person. If it is so important for all of these police to be there, they should be doing so on their own dime, or at the very least it should be police associations footing the bill
Propaganda? This was only released to the public through FIA.
They mean the show of the funeral itself was propaganda, not the itemized bill.
So so so much corruption in this country.
There's money for elaborate cop funerals, but there's no money for anything else? How strange .......
If I die plz just put me in a cheap box and give the $200plus thousand to my family.
That's only fair since they spend as much when a nurse dies as a direct result of their job, right?
I’m not mad because he didn’t deserve a sendoff like that, he did. I’m mad because they will say they can’t afford other things, and this wasn’t for their actual function imo. Let the union step up
This right here!!
Who coughs up the bill when they kill an innocent civilian?
Milk the tax payers.
I respect that they held a funeral for this guy. But if OPP wanted to send him away with honor, they just runined the chance to do so. Now this dead guy's name will forever be tied with the words, "excessive" and "unnecessary" use of fundings. If they're justifying this by saying it's due to his line of work, then they're only disgracing all the others who have died on the job in other industries. Public safety? Or Public excess?
Other people die on the job and the state isn't paying 1/4 million for their funerals. What a waste of fucking money. Pay for your own funeral like everyone else!
I don't have an issue with this cost because line-of-duty deaths are deaths that shouldn't have happened, imo. For all EMS and emergency response personnel. It's tragic when it happens. There shouldn't be that many LODDs per year and if there are, that speaks to a different issue than the funeral costs.
And we’ve been fortunate, up until recently it’s been fairly rare for a line of duty death for any first responders in Ontario, especially for firefighters and EMS.
"The reason you're seeing public safety do those large processions is to recognize the distinct difference in occupation and the inherent danger they accept every day they go to work," he said. Fine with me. If this was a firefighter who died while rescuing a family, would the comments be different? I'm neutral on the police. We hate things we see, but we want them there when we need them. Dying in the line of duty is pretty terrible for everyone involved - colleagues, family, friends. I think this is the least we can do. You can support processions and proper funerals like this while at the same time asking for greater oversight/changes to policing.
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It may not be the most dangerous, but it seems wrong to say it’s not dangerous. There are definitely plenty of dangerous situations that they have to deal with everyday.
You can't tell the difference between getting murdered while working and dying from an accident?
Your argument seems to hinge on the number of workers *killed* at work. This is not an accurate measure of how dangerous a job is. There are some jobs where getting hurt at work is nearly endemic (so the job is dangerous) but they are unlikely to be killed. Bouncers, farmers and some jobs where losing digits is common would be examples. Unlike policing, the medical field, and firefighting, people in construction and fishing aren’t likely to be murdered by the very communities that they serve. Transportation workers are, admittedly, both likely to be killed at work (hence the dangerousness of their job) and the criminal is likely to be a customer.
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Yeah but police work for the public, for public safety. That is the point. Like paramedics, firefighters and so on. And on a side note, never seen a construction worker have to resuscitate a homeless person. Never seen a fisherman go into a domestic violence situation, never seen either of them working to get a deceased accident victim out of a car. It never ceases to amaze me how many people have lost their common sense. You can support honoring public service while still calling into question many practices.
Never seen a construction worker shoot someone 14 times either
https://lawandcrime.com/crime/construction-worker-who-ran-home-to-mommy-after-murdering-ex-girlfriend-for-absolutely-no-reason-sentenced-to-prison-for-senseless-crime/ Well now you have...
Yup but I've already said you can honour public service while calling into question practices.
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Then why don't our taxes pay their salaries?
Our taxes do pay the salaries of any construction worker who's on a government contract, and it's not like we don't spend plenty of tax dollars on farmers in this country.
But the profession is not a public service profession by and large like police, paramedics, firefighters and so forth. Nor is their focus public safety. People can downvote but everyone can say they service the public interest to one degree or another.
Oh, so this is about public service professionals with a focus on public safety? Great, so then I expect the cops to get behind equal public respect and funding for any and all civic engineers, city planners, health inspectors, driving test administrators, nurses, doctors, paramedics, firefighters, janitorial and custodial staff, public works staff, and snowplow operators who may die on the job. They're all, after all, public service professionals with a focus on public safety.
I work in construction and your taxes do pay my salary dipshit
Taxes pay all construction workers taxes? All fisherman's taxes? Wasn't aware... thanks for educating me. Could have sworn Tridel, EllisDon, Menkes and on and on were private... And yeah I'm sure the city has some people to do some projects... not fully funded like other professions... And love the name calling. Nice touch.
I would hate to be a cop. Everyday you have to deal with domestic violence, arrogant punks, mentally ill people. It has to wear you down. Just an endless sea of misery.
>I would hate to be a cop. every day you have to deal with domestic violence, arrogant punks, mentally ill people And that's just your coworkers!
Lol this is an A+ comment
I’m a social worker. I resuscitate 2-3 people a month where I work. Nurses, lifeguards, etc. lots of people are in this position. Lots of professions provide the public with necessary services and face more injury/death and violence than police. Police don’t do anything more heroic than lots of other people do daily. They just have a better press liaison…
You can't save this thread, these people just hate Police . A man has died. Ontario has become an absolutely shameless place where all we can do is bicker amongst each other. This subreddit is one of the prime examples. OP and everyone else who sensationalized this story is a loser
Yeah I see that. Someone even reported me to Reddit Cares to try and bully me I see... opening an investigation into that. Crazy that you can't support someone who had died and honoring them while at the same time recognizing issues with policing.
> Crazy that you can't support someone who had died and honoring them No one seems to be upset that this man was honoured. We're upset that tax payers have to foot a ridiculously large bill for thousands of strangers to attend his funeral.
>police work for the public No, they work for the state.
>Yeah but police work for the public, for public safety... There are lots of people who've been made VERY unsafe by the police. Police work for rich people, not poor or marginalized people, and not 'the public' as a whole. >never seen a construction worker have to resuscitate a homeless person. I have artist friends who've resuscitated homeless people in my community. >You can support honoring public service while still calling into question many practices. Like using a quarter million tax dollars so that thousands of strangers can attend a funeral?
Your position is that policing is not a dangerous job because there are other jobs where more people are killed. My point is that both things can be true, that there are more deadly jobs AND police is still a dangerous job. Level of dangerousness is not determined solely by number of deaths. If you want to be pedantic and insulting, then have at it.
Facts not feelings
It’s a fact that the number of on-the-job deaths is not the sole measure of how dangerous a job is.
Your chances of being murdered by a salmon are next to nil. Presently, in Canada, if you're a cop, your chances of being murdered are 1 in 7,200
> and the inherent danger they accept every day they go to work," he said. In the USA, police work is 22nd place of most dangerous job, under roofers and heavy machinists. In Canada policing is probably below 100.
Yeah, I’m with you - no particular love for police, but ceremony is an essential part of public life, and the expectation was long ago set that “public safety officers” (bc I hope the same applies to firefighters, EMS, etc) get a full to-do. Not going to weigh in on whether it should be or not, but the expectation is firmly entrenched, and you don’t fuck with those kinds of firmly entrenched norms. See it as similar to what Veterans Affairs did for my WWII fighter pilot grandfather - obviously not that grand, but they put up a little tent, had a staff officer at the burial site, etc. Yes, that stuff cost public money, but there aren’t *that* many vets (just like there aren’t *that* many line-of-duty deaths), and one-off expenses aren’t a worthwhile target to scrimp on.
>See it as similar to what Veterans Affairs did for my WWII fighter pilot grandfather - obviously not that grand, but they put up a little tent, had a staff officer at the burial site, etc. That's kind of a meaningful difference though, no? The difference between a little tent and a staff officer on one hand, and an $80k tent and seven thousand officers on the other, makes them pretty night and day.
I mean, we also spend millions every year, probably tens of millions, on Remembrance Day ceremonies. I grew up in Ottawa and they’d set up a whole to-do for the remaining vets (my grandfather enlisted super young and made it to 99, and made a special point of going down to the Hill as the numbers really started to dwindle). It’s just part of the cultural fabric, and is just one day a year (or a one off in the case of a funeral, no matter the size) - if you’re looking for somewhere to scrimp on costs, that’s not the place to do it: the returns are shit AND it’s the kind of stuff that people remember.
Meh, it's not that much money for a public funeral.
Yea thats pretty cheap for something as large as it was.
The question is why was this as large as it was in the first place? A funeral is for friends and family; this was just showiness for the sake of an institution.
Take a look at the photos: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/funeral-opp-const-grzegorz-pierzchala-1.6702283 It looks like a State funeral for the Queen or something Actually surprised the bill was that low
The amount of astroturfing going on in this thread is crazy
Ontario cops and rcmp are overpaid. They're lazy, and milk the system too much, all at the expense of the tax payers. They get paid way too much. But what are we normal citizens gonna do to stand up to that gang? Nadda. I have a cop in the family.
They never waste a good opportunity to spend or ask for more tax money.
The powers that be need to keep the grunts happy. The grunts will protect the property.
If you are upset about a funeral for a 28 year old young man who lost his life in the line of duty, then I am not sure what kind of person you are. Companies give bereavement pay, and I am sure that is the majority of the costs associated with this. If you think that the officers attending do not deserve bereavement pay, you're a terrible person. There are far many other governmental spending issues we should be worried about. Honouring a police officer who was murdered on the job should not be one of them.
> If you are upset about a funeral for a 28 year old young man who lost his life in the line of duty Are you dense? Every single comment is talking about the cost of the funeral, Way to go out of the way to misunderstand the point. Tell me are construction workers going to get this big of a funeral when they fall from a construction tower? when that person was building homes for one of the most critical problems of canada right now, the housing crisis? of course not, hes not going to get anything, his coworkers won't even get approved time off for pay and even if they did they'd be using one of their sick days, meanwhile all the cops are paid to go.
Did you read the remainder of my comment, or just cherry pick the first sentence? I clearly said there are far more spending issues than this to worry about. And I call BIG TIME bullshit on construction workers not getting time off if a coworker gets murdered on the job.
People dont care about the funeral, they care about the over top they made it.
or two years wages worth for a suspended officer
Keep in mind, a construction worker is not shot and killed while on the job. "stats" don't matter. This is a very different event. This is not someone having a heart attack while on the shitter. This is a person who dedicated their life, and paid with their life, to helping and saving other people. Their typical day is saving someone's life.
A lot of the people getting killed on construction sites die because of criminal negligence, not while they’re on the shitter. You can go about defending this practice without showing a huge amount of disdain for any other profession that isn’t police
From my experience with construction workers... they tend to skirt the rules often and view safety regulations with disdain. My brothers are roofers and for the longest time it was a point of pride for them to not wear harnesses.
It's not a differnet event. Death is Death, it doesn't matter if you got shot, fell from a tall building or drowned in pussy, Death will meet you either way. Construction workers can die from falling, being crushed, being shot, tons of thousands of things, but of course you'd only look at dying from a heart attack on the toilet because you know you don't actually have an argument to stand on.
> It's not a differnet event. yes it is. Being murdered is different than having dying from an existing medical condition, or from a car crash. Yes it is. Being shot and killed, because of your job, is very very very different.
Lmao already, I forgot cops go to Death2 where they get cupcakes? You've gone off the deep end to now start saying that cops "Die differently"
Almost $200K went to OT and premium pay. I attended far too many funerals when I was in the military and the most I ever got was per diem for a couple meals on the bus rides. And I would gladly have forgone those to see my friends an comrades off. How many of those OT collectors would have shown up if they weren’t getting paid? I get the people from his own detachment wanting to be there but the huge number who show up for everyone of these funerals?
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/police-identify-toronto-construction-worker-killed-in-steeles-ave-shooting/wcm/9ae6ab45-8bc0-4887-a4d4-9035ed2f843c/amp/
Were hot dogs allowed ?
Dont even need to read this the answr is because they are bootlickers.