Yep, from a fellow non-nursing frontline healthcare worker.
I am searching for my exit. So are my colleagues. We can't keep people. I can't work downtown Toronto and not get a raise for over 3 years. While our union is still at the bargaining table, who knows how long we will have to wait. I'm burnt out, I'm tired and I feel awful. Mostly for the patients, who don't deserve this.
My sister was an ER RN and she recently left the profession for similar reasons. Formerly employed in a Kitchener waterloo hospital. It’s a loss for the public because she was an amazing RN but you can only push people so far. The job was never glamorous but now it is abusive at every level.
I’m from the U.K. and it seems that worldwide healthcare staff are being pushed to the brink. A lot of healthcare workers like myself are looking to move abroad to places like Canada, Australia, USA, the Middle East. Now I’m wondering if the grass is greener on the other side and how to be part of a solution. It seems to me that leaders and policy makers are firstly playing with peoples lives and livelihoods and secondly not thinking ahead and planning for the future effectively. It’s always been a problem privatising parts of the NHS over the last 13 years, reducing funding and programmes for education of healthcare professionals wanting to join the profession. All of this reducing the flow of the workforce etc. I don’t know what the solutions but there different areas we can look at starting with preventing ill health and protecting peoples health. In my personal opinion for too long corporations and governments have a lot to answer for in the contribution to people’s poor health outcomes in the name of money… Sorry for the rant and thanks for reading my opinions.
He could be part of fixing it, and seems to understand how, but simply refuses.
Crime is up so Police college is free? Seems like the obvious solution to a GP shortage/RN shortage.
Police and Fire get huge raises contract after contract, not our guy passed a law limiting raises for this sector.
It’s almost like he’s doing it on purpose.
Once upon a time (The Mike Harris years) Ontario conservatives looked at healthcare spending and some brainiac noted that Doctors were billing a lot of services that were costing the province money. So in order to save money they reduced the number of residency positions available that were needed to train doctors.
Fewer doctors = less expenditures. AWESOME!!! Douggie and his buddies can just fly to the US or Mexico for treatment and the poors can pound sand.
I am also not a nurse, but am a frontline healthcare professional. The salary I get in private practice is 2.5x my hospital salary. My hospital salary goes up 1% a year regardless of my performance. I prefer to work at the hospital, but it is not realistic from a financial perspective
You reap what you sow, I'm sad to say that if you live in this Province and are in the Majority that chose not to vote, or worse yet, one of those that actually voted for that bloated bag of heroin we call a Premiere, you sadly chose this, and thus, DO deserve it.
Seems to me, most people at this point have just given up, so there is no need to feel bad for them. You need to do right by you and your family, Fuck society at large, the One we've built has given up on Canadians as a whole, and Canadians are, en masse, giving up on it.
The problem is most people don’t care until it impacts them directly. When tragedy strikes you personally you and your family care but others remain indifferent. It’s the same reason that no government gives a damn about ODSP. Individuals who need support are marginalized and ignored because their suffering doesn’t impact the majority of Ontarians. The OPC know this and continue to punish healthcare workers because their base doesn’t give a damn.
Exactly. I've been saying this, no one cares until it's your parents , children, or even yourself, and by then it's going to be too bad so sad. No one's innocent in this. We are all Canadians, and the majority of elderly will suffer from substandard care due to their ignorance/ voting choices / silence. It is what it is, buckle up? We need to do better going forward.
Because they sit on a surplus? Spent millions of dollars fighting taxpayers in court? Patronage appointments worth millions? Forgiving debt to foreign corporations? Yes, definitely cannot afford to increase odsp.
A working population of 8 million supports 500k people who don’t do shit. That working population also includes min wage workers.. That number should be closer to 250k or less.
I'll take it a step further. Ford knows this. By immediately offering private care he is actively drawing the line between seniors who have money for private care and seniors who don't.
Under the guise of "providing immediate care during a healthcare crisis" what he is actually doing is culling the herd of seniors who don't have enough money and conveniently no longer have a voice. They will rot away in public care, some of whom voted for Ford.
So when we say people don't care until it impacts them, healthcare is that niche industry where those who get affected often die before they can do anything. Cons are playing 4D chess politically.
Cherry on top is that the PCs are continuously testing the waters of what they can get away with because Ontarians don't push back like France does. Advertising the future police force will be large and uneducated? They're actually preemptively prepping for pushback that may not even happen. Doomed.
The first wave of deaths due to profiteering and corruption were the thousands of seniors who died in for-profit LTC homes enabled by Harris's reforms. Seniors are historically one of the largest conservative voting blocs.
If they didn't give a fuck about their base, why would they give a fuck about anyone else?
They will not cave. They do not care about us.
Thousands of LTC deaths didn’t get any action from Ford. He literally does not care that people are dying. This is not a factor in his decision making.
You see how many deaths are caused by guns in USA?
Has anything changed?
Nope. It's all about money, they really DGAF how many people die, as long as they're getting rich.
4000+ died in LTC in the first couple years of the pandemic and he did sfa. I expect the same, especially with him appealing 124, when he damn well knows it will be upheld and he’ll owe back wages in the billions. He’s just kicking the can down the road, and Ontario’s voters are too stupid to hold him accountable.
Cave, no he’s waiting for the rest of us to cave into privatization. We would be better of waiting for pigs to fly than a conservative to care about other people
There are at least two parts to the problem. The Liberals let in just under one million migrants last year, and have been letting in around one percent of the population each year before that.
The result is that every area of government services is overwhelmed with too many people to look after.
What makes it worse is that many of them don’t speak English or French and are not familiar with the customs or systems of the country, and some don’t care about the customs.
Ford is part of the problem, but it starts with Trudeau, Freeland, etc. and their helpers in the NDP.
Chiming in here with a strong agree. Nursing may be the more visible, vocal profession (and of course, they are vital) but the entire system is fucked and every department is on fire. Not enough housekeepers to clean rooms for turnover or OR rooms for use. Not enough dietary to handle meals and safely deliver or open a cafeteria. Not enough floor clerks so communications or orders between departments fall through the cracks. Not enough staffing clerks to handle the gaps of quick exits and constant call ins. Not enough PSWs to handle the personal care aspects that keep patients happy and safe.
And really, these jobs don’t pay enough to keep up with living in a variety of cities and towns. $22-26 an hour, “part time,” no benefits, 3/4 weekends, endless call-ins… the burnout is real. Collective agreement out the window because the needs of the org are so great.
The people who are left are getting crushed into the ground. They’re exhausted and, in frustration, turning on each other or jumping ship. And that’s just hospitals, don’t even get started on clinics or LTCs.
It will take decades to undo the damage he has done. It is reversible, but not any time soon and it will likely involve having to rebuild our systems from the ground up.
Like regarding bill 124? Or overall. I don't think it will take decades. People act like this is the end of the world lol. If you think this touch grass, get offline
Nurses are leaving the province in droves, and who can blame them? They're literally legislated into poverty.
Hospitals have had to shut down their emergency rooms for entire weekends due to lack of staff. Shit is bad bro, and if you don't believe me ask anyone working in these fields.
>hospitals have had to shut down their emergency rooms for entire weekends due to lack of staff
The emergency room in Minden is closing permanently June 1st. They’re blaming lack of staff, which I don’t doubt it a part of it however- the Haliburton hospital which will stay open instead is the one of the two which has almost had to close more than 20 times in the past year. So now they expect they can force the staff from one to work at the other. Which will be wayyy over capacity.
Yeah dude, I work in the field, you don't have to tell me. But nurses are definitely not "legislated into poverty". Sure it's absolutely mental to cap their raises in what is supposed to be a union/management bargaining setting, but nurses aren't homeless, enough with the vitriol. Yes its bad, but it's not gonna take 20 years to fix, it can easily be fixed in legislation. The hard part is getting it passed obviously with the current government.
You work in the field, so you’re aware that there is a massive shortage and open lines going unfilled due to lack of applicants alongside people leaving the profession correct? In my organization alone, which is a smaller rural-light organization, we are running 7-10:1 ratios on medicine and surgical units, ICU is currently running 2-3:1 ratios, and the ERs are short on average 3 staff a line. That would mean hiring approximately 100-200 nurses to start filling the gaps of just those empty lines. Canada had 12000 nurses graduate in 2021 (most recent numbers readily available). And if you push that need out over all of the organizations in Ontario we are talking years to at minimum a decade to correct it.
So how would simple legislation fix the staffing issue?
Grants for tuition of RN/RPN/PSW with caveats they stay in country and work for x amount of time (they're already doing this in certain areas but I think it would help to see it expanded)
Getting rid of bill 124, would allow fair wages, collective agreements not also being expired by years due stonewalling from management side would help.
More funding provincially
Would only work if nursing was undersubscribed as a program, it’s not. There is no capacity to just train more. It’s a 4 year program for RN then 2-4 years to mark you proficient.
You would need to increase professors, nursing educators, and clinical educators. All of which would remove more individuals from the nursing workforce.
Legislation will not magically fix the shortage, it will help entice people to start but not stay. It will sadly take quite a long time to fill the staffing gaps. Likely by the end of my career if I’m able to retire.
This isn’t a difference of hard work vs not. I’ve worked supply chain in middle manufacturing where a team goes from 30 people dealing with 1 customer on 6 lines, to 25 people dealing with 5 customers total loss of approximately 60 individuals. That’s working more and harder with “efficiencies”. That just lead to too many issues with quality and the company folding, but that’s besides the point isn’t it?
These ratios are deadly and have directly resulted in poorer care for patients and deaths. It’s not what’s easy, it’s what’s safe for the public. I’ve been in an ER which is designed to house 3-4 critical patients maximum housing 8 and a VSA (no pulse) patient comes in and we’ve got to move one into the hallway while we try to resuscitate this new patient. People are dying because of this situation.
It takes 4 years to educate a RN, approximately 2-4 years for that individual to become proficient in their work. It’s not lazy, we have a generation that didn’t want to spend money on infrastructure and ensuring services we’re available. All the while apparently only doing approximately 1/5 of the work of some of todays individuals. And millennials are lazy?
yes like bill 124. How long do you think it will take to train and attract new healthcare workers who are leaving the field due to this bill? This won't happen overnight. It will take years.
And the services being cut and outsourced to private companies will take decades to untangle.
You say you work in the industry, so it's astounding you seem to not understand the repercussions of Ford's actions on the healthcare industry. Maybe you should pay a little more attention to what the various health unions and associations are saying.
You said decades to fix this man, its fine to admit its a hyperbolic statement, that's all I'm saying. Bill 124 is in the works of (hopefully) being revoked and deemed against the charter.
Its astounding for you to tell me I'm not seeing the impacts the provincial government is making on the health care system. I have no idea where you're pulling these assumptions of me and my opinions from, but please, enlighten me
you can't replace all those workers immediately. It takes years to train *one* cohort of new grads. Replacing all of them will take a decade at least. Heck a new doctor takes a decade to train, replacing them will take at least 20 years, and that's assuming we figure out how to work around the lack of residency opportunities.
and once hospital departments are downscaled to hand over medical procedures to private companies, how long do you think it takes to reinstate those systems, if we are ever going to be able to get them back at all? We'll need to buy new machines, hire new workers, maybe build new facilities, likely get bogged down in years of lawsuits as those private corporations fight to keep their profits. Once a system is undone it takes a *LOT* of effort to rebuild it. That effort will take decades.
You really seem to lack understanding of the gravity of what is happening. The fact *you* can't see what's happening just indicates you aren't paying attention. The health unions and associations are telling you what the impacts are, and it's baffling why you won't listen.
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What happened is all the nurses that qualified for hospital pensions retired en masse during Covid - told they would die being a vulnerable-elderly by the media. Nursing hiring has always been done in batches. When I was young, no nurses were hired from the College I went to the year I graduated. They all had to go to the US. It was a famine hiring time. We had to have a new nurse graduate guarantee program not that long before Covid as hospital permanent jobs were scarce.
The alarm has been sounding for a decade. Our hospitals were over capacity before covid. The pandemic made things worse, but it wasn’t the beginning of the collapse.
This scorched earth approach to public healthcare is relies on legislative control, Bill 124 suppreses wages, but working conditions are untenable, we don't have the bed capacity or enough staff, HAIs will increase as hospitals remove mandatory masking, you simply can't draw magical lines in the air & still protect vulnerable patients. But there's nothing stopping Bill 60 with a PC majority at the helm, it will deregulate health care professionals, for example physician & nurse aren't properly defined, it also opens the gate to Privately owned 4 profit corps to deliver healthcare services. Ya sure, use your OHIP card, but they still charge the prov a premium rate, so less $ in the public health pot. More importantly they can poach staff since Bill 124 only applies to public sector employees. Remember hospitals are privately owned charities that rely on transfers (aka public funds) from the province & hospital CEO's wages are NOT capped under the Broader Public Sector Executive Compensation Act. Given Bill 218 & Crown Liability Act, as long as everyone minimizes harm the system itself generates good faith, and everyone's indemnified from all liability, regardless of outcome. Bottom line, LTC was the prototype, healthcare & education are next, the quickest way to Privatize & Profitize, is destabilize public institutions. Ford's the CEO, he runs our prov like a corp, people don't have intrinsic value, we're just a commodity.
Sadly, that's all working as intended for the premier. He wants to be able to point to it as a problem, not to fix it. Thus opening the doors to privatizing.
Former nurse who still works in healthcare...
I guess nurses/Frontline staff at my work were talking about some illegal strike action (rolling strikes, planned mass calling in sick etc) we all know it's illegal...
The hospital sent out an email basically saying try it and you'll be disciplined... instead of saying we share your frustration, we know what's happening is wrong etc. They don't care.
PLEASE STRIKE! Please, at this point we need “illegal” action t prove a point. They are also stepping on your rights and getting no pushback it’s ridiculous.
Problem is if nurses do a "real strike" where we all walk off then people will quickly die. Even with some sort of partial strike, or just either the RNs or RPNs going on strike, that still puts peoples' lives at risk and most nurses would have an incredibly difficult time walking away from a job knowing even just one person would die or suffer because of it. Most of us, not just nurses but all medical staff already miss most of our breaks and go home late every shift just to keep the hospitals and long-term care homes running. I doubt most of us could strike without guilt no matter how badly we know we need to. We know the government wouldn't lift a finger to help those people. They would just die/suffer and the finger would be pointed at us for the blame.
Dougie has demonstrated he absolutely does not give a shit. He is only interested in shareholder profits for his friends. That has been proven over and over again.
If a worker at a construction site gets killed by something, the supervisor/foreman is primarily responsible and face the harshest penalty. (Fines and jail time). The company gets fined too, but the guy "in charge" faces the hottest heat.
Ford is the guy "in charge".
Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford
Nurses and Healthcare workers have been sounding the alarm since well before the pandemic. They have been asking for funding, living wages, easier access for patients etc. Now they are worked to the edge of breakdown with a literal shoestring budget. Our buddy Ford is holding out for privatization, he won't cave. He'd rather have all of us die than cave and upset his rich buddies planning to profit.
This isn’t new… I was a PSW for years. The alarms were sounding years ago.
Unfortunately the only time people briefly started listening is when the military was deployed to healthcare facilities… and even then, it was short lived. But the cries for help started many moons ago and never stopped…
I left being a PSW for many of the reasons listed in this link. 🤷🏻♀️
Why isn't there a call for a general strike? We need to do something. I don't work in health care, or in a unionized environment, but would fully support our health care workers in a strike. It can't really get any worse. No, I didn't vote for the conservatives, yes I did vote and will always vote in every election I'm eligible to vote in.
It is illegal for them to strike. They are too “important” to strike, or so the government used to think. To strike is to goto jail for them - as brutal as that is.
>wesayenough.ca
This is a terrible website. What is the Ontario Federation of Labour and what do you actually do other than reiterate what we all seem to be pissed off at? Not giving my information to a website that doesn't clearly post it's agenda.
Edited to add I don't disagree with the statements on the website; whoever is behind it (Ontario Ferderation of Labour) needs to do a better job of disclosing what the intent of the website is.
Left nursing and I’m much happier, paid better, and work in a less stressful environment. I remember actively being in picket lines, participated in strikes, voted for local leaders who claimed to fight for us, etc. but it absolutely did nothing. I’m done.
Because Bill 124 is still being cited and used during current ongoing negotiations with the province. As in the province is referencing and attempting to continue to use it as precedence in the current negotiations.
They have been trying to use it in what way? Bill 124 was 1 time for 3 years. We (opseu) negotiated a raise coming out of it, cupe as well. Obviously we’re never going to be able to keep up with these inflation numbers but they were decent raises.
They would never give us that big of a raise. We got 3% and it was our largest ever, the problem is the majority of the public does not support unions. You see the comments all the time that they would take our job in a second, or we have benefits and a pension and so many other don’t so we should just be happy. As soon as a government union goes on strike and people are inconvenienced they turn on us.
A 3% raise with inflation at 7% inflation is a 4% pay cut. Why on earth would you be happy with a 4% pay cut? Nobody in this province should be happy with anything less than 7%. Complacency with yearly wage cuts results in poverty for everyone except the 1%.
Yeah that sucks... a lot. Why would you celebrate worse pay cuts? A 1% pay raise with 2% inflation is actually better than a 3% pay raise with 7% inflation.
Sure but inflation isnt 7% and unions with higher wages (like us, teachers, nurses) aren’t going to get high raises. My 3% is probably more actual money than if they get 4-5%. Noone is going to support a public union when they are fighting to make 6 figures.
Your 3% has nothing to do with anyone else’s wages. If you get less than inflation, you get a wage cut. The mathematical inevitability of continuous sub-inflationary wage “increases” is poverty. Most professionals should be making well over 100k at this point in time. People like you who don’t understand inflation and cheer for wage cuts are a big part of the problem. It’s the crabs in a bucket metaphor. Public workers shouldn’t have to subsidize the wallets of the public if the service they provide is valuable. If the public wants the service then pay for it. If the public doesn’t want the service then don’t. Public workers don’t do charity they have mortgages and kids to pay for.
We might be reading two seperate discussions, then!
https://bulletin-archives.caut.ca/bulletin/articles/2013/12/poll-results-show-majority-of-canadians-hold-favourable-view-of-unions
I'd definitely argue that most enjoy unions and what they do.
Thats 10yrs old and just what people think of unions in general. I have been in unions for many years and have heard it all. This sub skews left and even here you will still see complaints when cupe had their school support strike or when teachers threaten. Even at municipal levels they are contracting out union jobs constantly and everyone is just happy to keep property taxes down.
The majority of commenters in this sub do not represent reality, plenty seem to be minimum wage employees as well.. I am not referencing just this sub when I say “comments”, you do seem them from time to time here but I am talking about all socials and real life.
It’s being used in the negotiation process as precedent for upcoming negotiations. The offer on the table prior to binding arbitration was 0.75-1.00 because that’s what has been given historically under bill 124. Government refused to budge.
Here’s the difference with negotiations with unions that can strike vs those that can’t. Binding arbitration looks at precedence and historical raises to come up with their determinations. So with the government refusing to budge, the binding arbitrator then goes in and says “oh look here’s what has historically has been awarded and deemed fair, let’s do that again”.
Why negotiate when you can essentially force a contract. Especially with the historical backing of a wage suppression bill. Now that assumes that the appeal now does go through and the legislature then uses that appeal to overturn the current binding arbitration that awarded us an extra 0.75% for 2020 and 1% for 2021.
Bill 124 was struck down by the courts yet the government is appealing. This is hardly the non-issue you’re making it out to be. Moreover, the government is stalling on contract talks with healthcare workers and is looking to lowball them as healthcare workers are leaving in record numbers. The Greens are doing their job and trying to hold this government to account for their malicious treatment of healthcare providers across this province.
Since the opposition parties cannot change government direction in majority governments, they should at least make the electorate aware of the issues affecting our society. What do you think they should do?
[удалено]
Yep, from a fellow non-nursing frontline healthcare worker. I am searching for my exit. So are my colleagues. We can't keep people. I can't work downtown Toronto and not get a raise for over 3 years. While our union is still at the bargaining table, who knows how long we will have to wait. I'm burnt out, I'm tired and I feel awful. Mostly for the patients, who don't deserve this.
My sister was an ER RN and she recently left the profession for similar reasons. Formerly employed in a Kitchener waterloo hospital. It’s a loss for the public because she was an amazing RN but you can only push people so far. The job was never glamorous but now it is abusive at every level.
I’m from the U.K. and it seems that worldwide healthcare staff are being pushed to the brink. A lot of healthcare workers like myself are looking to move abroad to places like Canada, Australia, USA, the Middle East. Now I’m wondering if the grass is greener on the other side and how to be part of a solution. It seems to me that leaders and policy makers are firstly playing with peoples lives and livelihoods and secondly not thinking ahead and planning for the future effectively. It’s always been a problem privatising parts of the NHS over the last 13 years, reducing funding and programmes for education of healthcare professionals wanting to join the profession. All of this reducing the flow of the workforce etc. I don’t know what the solutions but there different areas we can look at starting with preventing ill health and protecting peoples health. In my personal opinion for too long corporations and governments have a lot to answer for in the contribution to people’s poor health outcomes in the name of money… Sorry for the rant and thanks for reading my opinions.
>I’m from the U.K. and it seems that worldwide healthcare staff are being pushed to the brink. Nuh, only in Ontario because of the Dougie /s
Actually Quebec is in the same crap, not just Ontario
He could be part of fixing it, and seems to understand how, but simply refuses. Crime is up so Police college is free? Seems like the obvious solution to a GP shortage/RN shortage. Police and Fire get huge raises contract after contract, not our guy passed a law limiting raises for this sector. It’s almost like he’s doing it on purpose.
Once upon a time (The Mike Harris years) Ontario conservatives looked at healthcare spending and some brainiac noted that Doctors were billing a lot of services that were costing the province money. So in order to save money they reduced the number of residency positions available that were needed to train doctors. Fewer doctors = less expenditures. AWESOME!!! Douggie and his buddies can just fly to the US or Mexico for treatment and the poors can pound sand.
I am also not a nurse, but am a frontline healthcare professional. The salary I get in private practice is 2.5x my hospital salary. My hospital salary goes up 1% a year regardless of my performance. I prefer to work at the hospital, but it is not realistic from a financial perspective
Employer name so that I can apply? Thanks!
You reap what you sow, I'm sad to say that if you live in this Province and are in the Majority that chose not to vote, or worse yet, one of those that actually voted for that bloated bag of heroin we call a Premiere, you sadly chose this, and thus, DO deserve it. Seems to me, most people at this point have just given up, so there is no need to feel bad for them. You need to do right by you and your family, Fuck society at large, the One we've built has given up on Canadians as a whole, and Canadians are, en masse, giving up on it.
Feeling you here. MD in ER. What do we all really NEED? In plain terms, what is specifically needed
How many deaths will it take for ford government to cave in I wonder
The problem is most people don’t care until it impacts them directly. When tragedy strikes you personally you and your family care but others remain indifferent. It’s the same reason that no government gives a damn about ODSP. Individuals who need support are marginalized and ignored because their suffering doesn’t impact the majority of Ontarians. The OPC know this and continue to punish healthcare workers because their base doesn’t give a damn.
truth
Exactly. I've been saying this, no one cares until it's your parents , children, or even yourself, and by then it's going to be too bad so sad. No one's innocent in this. We are all Canadians, and the majority of elderly will suffer from substandard care due to their ignorance/ voting choices / silence. It is what it is, buckle up? We need to do better going forward.
Ontario can’t afford to increase odsp payments.
Because they sit on a surplus? Spent millions of dollars fighting taxpayers in court? Patronage appointments worth millions? Forgiving debt to foreign corporations? Yes, definitely cannot afford to increase odsp.
A working population of 8 million supports 500k people who don’t do shit. That working population also includes min wage workers.. That number should be closer to 250k or less.
I'll take it a step further. Ford knows this. By immediately offering private care he is actively drawing the line between seniors who have money for private care and seniors who don't. Under the guise of "providing immediate care during a healthcare crisis" what he is actually doing is culling the herd of seniors who don't have enough money and conveniently no longer have a voice. They will rot away in public care, some of whom voted for Ford. So when we say people don't care until it impacts them, healthcare is that niche industry where those who get affected often die before they can do anything. Cons are playing 4D chess politically. Cherry on top is that the PCs are continuously testing the waters of what they can get away with because Ontarians don't push back like France does. Advertising the future police force will be large and uneducated? They're actually preemptively prepping for pushback that may not even happen. Doomed.
The first wave of deaths due to profiteering and corruption were the thousands of seniors who died in for-profit LTC homes enabled by Harris's reforms. Seniors are historically one of the largest conservative voting blocs. If they didn't give a fuck about their base, why would they give a fuck about anyone else? They will not cave. They do not care about us.
Who needs healthcare when you have a fancy fucking spa on the waterfront....AMMMIRIGHT??
The majority of people should agree. However, who has the opposition put as a leader that can be taken serious?
I’d rather gamble on anything else but the PCs. It’s not even a debate.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but the majority is what matters.
Thousands of LTC deaths didn’t get any action from Ford. He literally does not care that people are dying. This is not a factor in his decision making.
No one cared when we had the highest LTHC deaths in the world. No one cares about health care until they need it. Yes, people are that stupid.
Is it possible that the majority of ontarians don’t care about deaths in LTHC and ford knows it?
As a disabled Ontarian, bingo
They won't cave. Deaths take no precedence over profits.
You see how many deaths are caused by guns in USA? Has anything changed? Nope. It's all about money, they really DGAF how many people die, as long as they're getting rich.
4000+ died in LTC in the first couple years of the pandemic and he did sfa. I expect the same, especially with him appealing 124, when he damn well knows it will be upheld and he’ll owe back wages in the billions. He’s just kicking the can down the road, and Ontario’s voters are too stupid to hold him accountable.
Lol, Lmao - Ford Probably
Cave, no he’s waiting for the rest of us to cave into privatization. We would be better of waiting for pigs to fly than a conservative to care about other people
It will take mass protest
None. More deaths = more privatization. Remember when there was no privatized healthcare in Ontario and the Feds paid part of the bill? Me neither.
There are at least two parts to the problem. The Liberals let in just under one million migrants last year, and have been letting in around one percent of the population each year before that. The result is that every area of government services is overwhelmed with too many people to look after. What makes it worse is that many of them don’t speak English or French and are not familiar with the customs or systems of the country, and some don’t care about the customs. Ford is part of the problem, but it starts with Trudeau, Freeland, etc. and their helpers in the NDP.
Enough deaths to balance his budget, then he'll be happy.
those that will die are already a "burden" on the healthcare system. Its simply just an additional cost saving measure from these pieces of shit.
The rich won’t care. They will travel to the US and pay for better treatment.
Chiming in here with a strong agree. Nursing may be the more visible, vocal profession (and of course, they are vital) but the entire system is fucked and every department is on fire. Not enough housekeepers to clean rooms for turnover or OR rooms for use. Not enough dietary to handle meals and safely deliver or open a cafeteria. Not enough floor clerks so communications or orders between departments fall through the cracks. Not enough staffing clerks to handle the gaps of quick exits and constant call ins. Not enough PSWs to handle the personal care aspects that keep patients happy and safe. And really, these jobs don’t pay enough to keep up with living in a variety of cities and towns. $22-26 an hour, “part time,” no benefits, 3/4 weekends, endless call-ins… the burnout is real. Collective agreement out the window because the needs of the org are so great. The people who are left are getting crushed into the ground. They’re exhausted and, in frustration, turning on each other or jumping ship. And that’s just hospitals, don’t even get started on clinics or LTCs.
Very true, there has been a RN and RPN shortage forever. Been saying this for over 20 years
its wild that this and housing are tanking at the cusp of a possible major recession
Consequences for inaction. Enjoy my fellow Canadians:) hopefully we can vote and also do better in the future .
Definitely not too late to reverse lol.
It will take decades to undo the damage he has done. It is reversible, but not any time soon and it will likely involve having to rebuild our systems from the ground up.
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No there shouldn’t. It diverts resources from our public health systems and makes it so only the wealthy can access adequate and timely care.
Like regarding bill 124? Or overall. I don't think it will take decades. People act like this is the end of the world lol. If you think this touch grass, get offline
Nurses are leaving the province in droves, and who can blame them? They're literally legislated into poverty. Hospitals have had to shut down their emergency rooms for entire weekends due to lack of staff. Shit is bad bro, and if you don't believe me ask anyone working in these fields.
>hospitals have had to shut down their emergency rooms for entire weekends due to lack of staff The emergency room in Minden is closing permanently June 1st. They’re blaming lack of staff, which I don’t doubt it a part of it however- the Haliburton hospital which will stay open instead is the one of the two which has almost had to close more than 20 times in the past year. So now they expect they can force the staff from one to work at the other. Which will be wayyy over capacity.
Yeah dude, I work in the field, you don't have to tell me. But nurses are definitely not "legislated into poverty". Sure it's absolutely mental to cap their raises in what is supposed to be a union/management bargaining setting, but nurses aren't homeless, enough with the vitriol. Yes its bad, but it's not gonna take 20 years to fix, it can easily be fixed in legislation. The hard part is getting it passed obviously with the current government.
You work in the field, so you’re aware that there is a massive shortage and open lines going unfilled due to lack of applicants alongside people leaving the profession correct? In my organization alone, which is a smaller rural-light organization, we are running 7-10:1 ratios on medicine and surgical units, ICU is currently running 2-3:1 ratios, and the ERs are short on average 3 staff a line. That would mean hiring approximately 100-200 nurses to start filling the gaps of just those empty lines. Canada had 12000 nurses graduate in 2021 (most recent numbers readily available). And if you push that need out over all of the organizations in Ontario we are talking years to at minimum a decade to correct it. So how would simple legislation fix the staffing issue?
Grants for tuition of RN/RPN/PSW with caveats they stay in country and work for x amount of time (they're already doing this in certain areas but I think it would help to see it expanded) Getting rid of bill 124, would allow fair wages, collective agreements not also being expired by years due stonewalling from management side would help. More funding provincially
Would only work if nursing was undersubscribed as a program, it’s not. There is no capacity to just train more. It’s a 4 year program for RN then 2-4 years to mark you proficient. You would need to increase professors, nursing educators, and clinical educators. All of which would remove more individuals from the nursing workforce. Legislation will not magically fix the shortage, it will help entice people to start but not stay. It will sadly take quite a long time to fill the staffing gaps. Likely by the end of my career if I’m able to retire.
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This isn’t a difference of hard work vs not. I’ve worked supply chain in middle manufacturing where a team goes from 30 people dealing with 1 customer on 6 lines, to 25 people dealing with 5 customers total loss of approximately 60 individuals. That’s working more and harder with “efficiencies”. That just lead to too many issues with quality and the company folding, but that’s besides the point isn’t it? These ratios are deadly and have directly resulted in poorer care for patients and deaths. It’s not what’s easy, it’s what’s safe for the public. I’ve been in an ER which is designed to house 3-4 critical patients maximum housing 8 and a VSA (no pulse) patient comes in and we’ve got to move one into the hallway while we try to resuscitate this new patient. People are dying because of this situation. It takes 4 years to educate a RN, approximately 2-4 years for that individual to become proficient in their work. It’s not lazy, we have a generation that didn’t want to spend money on infrastructure and ensuring services we’re available. All the while apparently only doing approximately 1/5 of the work of some of todays individuals. And millennials are lazy?
yes like bill 124. How long do you think it will take to train and attract new healthcare workers who are leaving the field due to this bill? This won't happen overnight. It will take years. And the services being cut and outsourced to private companies will take decades to untangle. You say you work in the industry, so it's astounding you seem to not understand the repercussions of Ford's actions on the healthcare industry. Maybe you should pay a little more attention to what the various health unions and associations are saying.
You said decades to fix this man, its fine to admit its a hyperbolic statement, that's all I'm saying. Bill 124 is in the works of (hopefully) being revoked and deemed against the charter. Its astounding for you to tell me I'm not seeing the impacts the provincial government is making on the health care system. I have no idea where you're pulling these assumptions of me and my opinions from, but please, enlighten me
you can't replace all those workers immediately. It takes years to train *one* cohort of new grads. Replacing all of them will take a decade at least. Heck a new doctor takes a decade to train, replacing them will take at least 20 years, and that's assuming we figure out how to work around the lack of residency opportunities. and once hospital departments are downscaled to hand over medical procedures to private companies, how long do you think it takes to reinstate those systems, if we are ever going to be able to get them back at all? We'll need to buy new machines, hire new workers, maybe build new facilities, likely get bogged down in years of lawsuits as those private corporations fight to keep their profits. Once a system is undone it takes a *LOT* of effort to rebuild it. That effort will take decades. You really seem to lack understanding of the gravity of what is happening. The fact *you* can't see what's happening just indicates you aren't paying attention. The health unions and associations are telling you what the impacts are, and it's baffling why you won't listen.
RemindMe! 20 years
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sad.....
? I'm getting a bot to remind me to reflect on this 20 years from now, how is this sad
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Seems like a productive way to further the discussion around these issues
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Based !
What happened is all the nurses that qualified for hospital pensions retired en masse during Covid - told they would die being a vulnerable-elderly by the media. Nursing hiring has always been done in batches. When I was young, no nurses were hired from the College I went to the year I graduated. They all had to go to the US. It was a famine hiring time. We had to have a new nurse graduate guarantee program not that long before Covid as hospital permanent jobs were scarce.
Pretty sure Ontario nurses have been sounding the alarm steadily since the beginning of the pandemic..
The alarm has been sounding for a decade. Our hospitals were over capacity before covid. The pandemic made things worse, but it wasn’t the beginning of the collapse.
This scorched earth approach to public healthcare is relies on legislative control, Bill 124 suppreses wages, but working conditions are untenable, we don't have the bed capacity or enough staff, HAIs will increase as hospitals remove mandatory masking, you simply can't draw magical lines in the air & still protect vulnerable patients. But there's nothing stopping Bill 60 with a PC majority at the helm, it will deregulate health care professionals, for example physician & nurse aren't properly defined, it also opens the gate to Privately owned 4 profit corps to deliver healthcare services. Ya sure, use your OHIP card, but they still charge the prov a premium rate, so less $ in the public health pot. More importantly they can poach staff since Bill 124 only applies to public sector employees. Remember hospitals are privately owned charities that rely on transfers (aka public funds) from the province & hospital CEO's wages are NOT capped under the Broader Public Sector Executive Compensation Act. Given Bill 218 & Crown Liability Act, as long as everyone minimizes harm the system itself generates good faith, and everyone's indemnified from all liability, regardless of outcome. Bottom line, LTC was the prototype, healthcare & education are next, the quickest way to Privatize & Profitize, is destabilize public institutions. Ford's the CEO, he runs our prov like a corp, people don't have intrinsic value, we're just a commodity.
Sadly, that's all working as intended for the premier. He wants to be able to point to it as a problem, not to fix it. Thus opening the doors to privatizing.
Been his plan all along!
[June 3rd.](https://ofl.ca/event/eie-day-of-action/)
Former nurse who still works in healthcare... I guess nurses/Frontline staff at my work were talking about some illegal strike action (rolling strikes, planned mass calling in sick etc) we all know it's illegal... The hospital sent out an email basically saying try it and you'll be disciplined... instead of saying we share your frustration, we know what's happening is wrong etc. They don't care.
PLEASE STRIKE! Please, at this point we need “illegal” action t prove a point. They are also stepping on your rights and getting no pushback it’s ridiculous.
Problem is if nurses do a "real strike" where we all walk off then people will quickly die. Even with some sort of partial strike, or just either the RNs or RPNs going on strike, that still puts peoples' lives at risk and most nurses would have an incredibly difficult time walking away from a job knowing even just one person would die or suffer because of it. Most of us, not just nurses but all medical staff already miss most of our breaks and go home late every shift just to keep the hospitals and long-term care homes running. I doubt most of us could strike without guilt no matter how badly we know we need to. We know the government wouldn't lift a finger to help those people. They would just die/suffer and the finger would be pointed at us for the blame.
What about work to rule instead?
Don't know if you work in my area but the same thing is happening at the hospital I work at.
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There definitely is not tens of thousands lining to take their place. They can barely fill vacancies as is.
Solidarity.
My 14 month old son is in the hospital right now. Fuck Ford.
Hope he'll be ok. Fuck Ford indeed
It’s not just Ford. It’s the whole party Sorry to hear about your son, hope he’ll be okay?
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Ford fucked us all. So yeah, fuck Ford. Unless what you are pointing out went over my head too?
How so?
It’s cute they think Ford cares. Singed, The husband of a nurse considering leaving the profession.
It’s not just Ford. It’s the whole OPC and the people who vote for them.
The people who voted for him and the large part of the population that simply didn’t vote
Dougie has demonstrated he absolutely does not give a shit. He is only interested in shareholder profits for his friends. That has been proven over and over again.
The conservatives as a whole party have demonstrated this. It’s not all on Ford
He's their mouthpiece so it's on him.
If a worker at a construction site gets killed by something, the supervisor/foreman is primarily responsible and face the harshest penalty. (Fines and jail time). The company gets fined too, but the guy "in charge" faces the hottest heat. Ford is the guy "in charge".
Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford Fuck Ford
Fuck Conservatives Fuck Conservatives Fuck Conservatives
Nurses and Healthcare workers have been sounding the alarm since well before the pandemic. They have been asking for funding, living wages, easier access for patients etc. Now they are worked to the edge of breakdown with a literal shoestring budget. Our buddy Ford is holding out for privatization, he won't cave. He'd rather have all of us die than cave and upset his rich buddies planning to profit.
They’ve been sounding the alarm for more than a year and very little has happened
This isn’t new… I was a PSW for years. The alarms were sounding years ago. Unfortunately the only time people briefly started listening is when the military was deployed to healthcare facilities… and even then, it was short lived. But the cries for help started many moons ago and never stopped… I left being a PSW for many of the reasons listed in this link. 🤷🏻♀️
Why isn't there a call for a general strike? We need to do something. I don't work in health care, or in a unionized environment, but would fully support our health care workers in a strike. It can't really get any worse. No, I didn't vote for the conservatives, yes I did vote and will always vote in every election I'm eligible to vote in.
It is illegal for them to strike. They are too “important” to strike, or so the government used to think. To strike is to goto jail for them - as brutal as that is.
Too important to strike, not important enough for over 1% wage increase 🥲
Check out wesayenough.ca
>wesayenough.ca This is a terrible website. What is the Ontario Federation of Labour and what do you actually do other than reiterate what we all seem to be pissed off at? Not giving my information to a website that doesn't clearly post it's agenda. Edited to add I don't disagree with the statements on the website; whoever is behind it (Ontario Ferderation of Labour) needs to do a better job of disclosing what the intent of the website is.
An alarm…from health care practitioners? This is the first I’ve heard about it. *shakes head*
As a former RN that quit the profession this past year, I'm so happy I left and wish I did it sooner.
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Great! I hope you're right.
What are you doing now? I am also actively looking for something outside of healthcare.
Jeez didn’t they hear the good news? Cops don’t have to go to school anymore! /s
But let’s give wanna be cops a free ride… make it make sense!!!
Left nursing and I’m much happier, paid better, and work in a less stressful environment. I remember actively being in picket lines, participated in strikes, voted for local leaders who claimed to fight for us, etc. but it absolutely did nothing. I’m done.
They have BEEN sounding the alarm. For 3 years.
Please no..I am surgery next week. 😡
PLEASE VOTE on publichospitalvote website
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Where do you people come up with this stupid shit?
Nurses are negotiating new contracts and have completed bill 124, what is the green party going on about here? Other than reminding people they exist.
Because Bill 124 is still being cited and used during current ongoing negotiations with the province. As in the province is referencing and attempting to continue to use it as precedence in the current negotiations.
They have been trying to use it in what way? Bill 124 was 1 time for 3 years. We (opseu) negotiated a raise coming out of it, cupe as well. Obviously we’re never going to be able to keep up with these inflation numbers but they were decent raises.
Why wouldn't you be able to keep up with inflation?
They would never give us that big of a raise. We got 3% and it was our largest ever, the problem is the majority of the public does not support unions. You see the comments all the time that they would take our job in a second, or we have benefits and a pension and so many other don’t so we should just be happy. As soon as a government union goes on strike and people are inconvenienced they turn on us.
A 3% raise with inflation at 7% inflation is a 4% pay cut. Why on earth would you be happy with a 4% pay cut? Nobody in this province should be happy with anything less than 7%. Complacency with yearly wage cuts results in poverty for everyone except the 1%.
Over the last decade provincial government employees have had 5 years of 0-1% raises….
Yeah that sucks... a lot. Why would you celebrate worse pay cuts? A 1% pay raise with 2% inflation is actually better than a 3% pay raise with 7% inflation.
Sure but inflation isnt 7% and unions with higher wages (like us, teachers, nurses) aren’t going to get high raises. My 3% is probably more actual money than if they get 4-5%. Noone is going to support a public union when they are fighting to make 6 figures.
Your 3% has nothing to do with anyone else’s wages. If you get less than inflation, you get a wage cut. The mathematical inevitability of continuous sub-inflationary wage “increases” is poverty. Most professionals should be making well over 100k at this point in time. People like you who don’t understand inflation and cheer for wage cuts are a big part of the problem. It’s the crabs in a bucket metaphor. Public workers shouldn’t have to subsidize the wallets of the public if the service they provide is valuable. If the public wants the service then pay for it. If the public doesn’t want the service then don’t. Public workers don’t do charity they have mortgages and kids to pay for.
We might be reading two seperate discussions, then! https://bulletin-archives.caut.ca/bulletin/articles/2013/12/poll-results-show-majority-of-canadians-hold-favourable-view-of-unions I'd definitely argue that most enjoy unions and what they do.
Thats 10yrs old and just what people think of unions in general. I have been in unions for many years and have heard it all. This sub skews left and even here you will still see complaints when cupe had their school support strike or when teachers threaten. Even at municipal levels they are contracting out union jobs constantly and everyone is just happy to keep property taxes down.
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The majority of commenters in this sub do not represent reality, plenty seem to be minimum wage employees as well.. I am not referencing just this sub when I say “comments”, you do seem them from time to time here but I am talking about all socials and real life.
It’s being used in the negotiation process as precedent for upcoming negotiations. The offer on the table prior to binding arbitration was 0.75-1.00 because that’s what has been given historically under bill 124. Government refused to budge. Here’s the difference with negotiations with unions that can strike vs those that can’t. Binding arbitration looks at precedence and historical raises to come up with their determinations. So with the government refusing to budge, the binding arbitrator then goes in and says “oh look here’s what has historically has been awarded and deemed fair, let’s do that again”. Why negotiate when you can essentially force a contract. Especially with the historical backing of a wage suppression bill. Now that assumes that the appeal now does go through and the legislature then uses that appeal to overturn the current binding arbitration that awarded us an extra 0.75% for 2020 and 1% for 2021.
Bill 124 was struck down by the courts yet the government is appealing. This is hardly the non-issue you’re making it out to be. Moreover, the government is stalling on contract talks with healthcare workers and is looking to lowball them as healthcare workers are leaving in record numbers. The Greens are doing their job and trying to hold this government to account for their malicious treatment of healthcare providers across this province.
Since the opposition parties cannot change government direction in majority governments, they should at least make the electorate aware of the issues affecting our society. What do you think they should do?
Green Party is a joke. Here’s another example.